I just need to quit reading it, every time I do I just want to go on a rip.

Sure tell people all the good stuff about carrara, but lets not mention all the bad stuff. Like quite a bit of the content released rom DAZ in the last 6 months wont load to carrara. We'll just go ahead and let them spend their money so they can find out for themselves. The best way to get all those stuborn carraraests over to Studio is to make sure no new content works in it.

Man, this is like trying to swim in concrete. If I didn't so stubornly love doing CG art I'd have given up on DAZ years ago. DAZ seems to be my biggest diturent to doing CG art.

Huh, ? I have saved a million million million dollars since daz decided to go on the new path, I'm happy, don't worry, be happy, just make art!

Kind of hard to do art when I have to do battle with content and applications, and the developer has everyone on ignor.

But you are right, no reason to buy content if it doesn't work in my application. Saves me money costs DAZ money. But how can I suport carrara; financially, if DAZ content wont work in it? It's like DAZ doesn't want my money.

Quote - But you are right, no reason to buy content if it doesn't work in my application. Saves me money costs DAZ money. But how can I suport carrara; financially, if DAZ content wont work in it? It's like DAZ doesn't want my money.

As much as you complain, maybe they don't.

I am still waiting for your tutorial on the best was to install and setup Poser 2014. Due to an issue I created, I had to format and start over. So this is a good time to setup Poser to make manuvering easier. I have a ka-zillion files that need to be installed and I have yet to get a good handle on run times.

Quote - Kind of hard to do art when I have to do battle with content and applications, and the developer has everyone on ignor. But you are right, no reason to buy content if it doesn't work in my application. Saves me money costs DAZ money. But how can I suport carrara; financially, if DAZ content wont work in it? It's like DAZ doesn't want my money.

I don't know if Daz wants any of our money.

So much new content over at the Daz site is DUF format, with no OBJ. Which is really crazy, because OBJ plays nicely in Poser, DS3.0 and earlier, and Carrara, with no extra BS. 

I really love a lot of the stuff for G2F (V6, Olympia, etc), but I need my Carrara to work flawlessly and from what I'm seeing, that's not the case.

Luckily, Rendo still supports us. Daz has a nice sale going on Gen4 stuff.

I wish they would fix Carrara.

Quote - Huh, ? I have saved a million million million dollars since daz decided to go on the new path, I'm happy, don't worry, be happy, just make art!

Yeah. Saved tons of money (not millions and millions but them some of us had a bigger habit than others) not buying at DAZ. Left me with money to buy all those nifty plugins from Inagoni and DCG. :)

okay a thousand thousand thousand then ;)

Haven't touched Poser since P6.

The only handle to get on runtimes is how you want to sort them. Hell I still have my V2/M2 runtimes; I don't know, just still have them lol When my V4 poses folder got out of hand I sorted it to mats, morphs, and Poses. Now it seems I need to do the same with her figures folder, maybe sort it to characters, hair, modern, scifi, fansity, and naughty lol

Carrara's content menus are still a weak point. If I could hack C8.5 to fix stuff myself, that would be in my top ten to fix. Number one would be shader list role back. An aggrivation I have had to deal with for far too long.

But I have spent all I intend to till DAZ fixes the present issues with C8.5, ie. not being able to use poses, mats, or morphs that have come out in the last 6 months. If I can't use it in carrara there is no point in me buying it; and I have $60 worth of just G2F content on my wish list {I think my stonemason scenes wish listed is up to $380 now  } I already have about $30 worth of poses for Jack's sets I should have gotten refunds on. That would be the mad doctor/nurse mats and poses for westpark, and the same for the moonshine diner. None of it works in carrara.

I'm pretty well using Genesis and G2F as much as I can. I just really like working with the figures, carrara doesn't but I do lol I don't like having to set up my characters in Studo the only big adavantage; besides content working, is the Hex bridge. The problem with staging in Studio is Studio has some hyper active smoothing/antipoke though thing going on, that will fool you in to thinking everything looks good, open the scene in carrara and you wonder what happened lol

But I'm just preaching to the choir here, and even if I could get back on the DAZ forum that would last about as long as my first post. lol And the way it looks no one there will get up in DAZ's face about these issue. Seems the lead forumite there is just candy coating C8.5 in to a diabetic coma.

why not just do an open letter to daz and post it publicly, and then make sure every one knew about it, I would add my name to it.

The only way Daz will take notice is through PR or Bad Publicity

Quote - why not just do an open letter to daz and post it publicly, and then make sure every one knew about it, I would add my name to it. The only way Daz will take notice is through PR or Bad Publicity

Daz cheerleaders would shout the post down for a few pages.

Then someone would be accused of hurting Carrara by pointing out the flaws.

Then Daz would probably pull the post down in short order.

Then ban the poster.

 

who said the letter had to posted at daz, it could be hosted elsewhere

I'm not sure it would do any good, even carraraests are tired of hearing about the issues with C8.5. DAZ certainly isn't going to do anything to fix it. We already know there wont be an update to C8.5; no C8.6.And C9 is questionable at best. I haven't hear really anything concrete about it, it's quite possable after the abysmal sales of C8.5 DAZ just gave up on carrara but doesn't want to blow any possable sales by saying as much. Ignorance is profit.

It also seems most carraraest aren't active on the forums/in the community. There is half a dozen regular posters here, maybe as many on the carraracafe, and possably only a dozen on the DAZ forum, a good postion of which are new users crossing over from studio.

I tried not to long ago to get everyone to contact sales/suport at DAZ and ask for an update to C8.5, did any one here do that? So what good would an open letter do?

DAZ has already come to the conclusion that people talking bad about carrara and DAZ is the cause of the low sales. It certainly had nothing to do with lacking promotions, updates, or development. Had nothing to do with DAZ taking carrara in a direction most carraraest didn't want to go.

I could get back on the DAZ forum, but I would have to make promeses that just would not be in my nature to keep. I'd have to do a lengthy post on the currant state of carrara, and regardless of how nice I posted it it's not information DAZ wants in it's forum. Seems DAZ's biggest enemy with carrara is the truth.

But then if carraraests wanted me back on the DAZ forum they wouldn't be turning in my alt accounts. Right now the DAZ carrara forum is being run by 3 crossover Studio cheerleaders, and I don't expect that to change.

I used to post there all the time, but got tired of trying to make things better, I asked why they removed the bug tracker, and why we had to contact support desk to report bugs, were they trying to hide that they wernt fixing bugs, as that is the only reason i can see to remove it, and not the, oh its to streamline the process.

Reason I have stopped posting here, at Daz and at the Cafe is because art is not as important to me now as it once was.

As to whether the open letter would help or Daz taking notice, if people don't want to do anything to help, and at least say they tried, then they don't really have the right to bitch and moan about daz not doing anything.

At least if we tried we MIGHT get something from Daz, bad publicity is bad, even if they say there is no so thing as bad publicity, if you can damage Daz's image then they will take notice :)

Quote - I tried not to long ago to get everyone to contact sales/suport at DAZ and ask for an update to C8.5, did any one here do that? So what good would an open letter do?

I did that and I know of one other person who did.

 

well at least it would be doing something other than bitching about the problems on various forums, Daz will not take any action unless it directly affects them, then again they probably wouldn't do anything if it did.

Point is it's better to do some than to do nothing

The problem is I have repeatedly, through the years tried to get carraraest to unite to pressure DAZ in to fixing carrara. Hasn't worked, carraraests seem to be very individual people. I have done what I can. I was arguing with DAZ sales/support for 3 days. They wanted to give me a refund, I told them I wanted the carrara I paid for. When I was on the DAZ carrara forum I cut DAZ no slack. I pointed out issues, and gripped about bugs. What this got me was reported by fellow carraraests. 

I'm off the carraracafe because fellow carraraest are so fed up with me complaining about the issues with C8.5 and genesis{ that they have no interset in} that some one got mean, vindictive and abused their powers as a forum mod. And there in lies the problem. A lot of carraraests didn't get C8.5, there for don't use genesis or G3F/M, so don't care how bad C8.5 is or that it doesn't do what it was build to do.

I was banned from the DAZ forum for telling someone not to invest in genesis because genesis was dead, DAZ wasn't developing it. That was what? better then a year ago. Once again I was right. DAZ has not done anything to update genesis since it's release 4 years ago{?}. So I got banned from the DAZ forum for telling the truth. Certainly not something DAZ wants prospective new customers to know.

DAZ's cure for issues with carrara is to ban people that complain about them. Or atleast pull the posts. The DAZ carrara forum is little more then a propaganda machine. And the main posters there just contribute to the propaganda.

It's my opinioin C8.5 was the worst selling build of carrara to date. DAZ didn't see a profit in it so axed carrara development; no C9. And wont say as much as long as carraraests are still shoping at DAZ.

What to do? Shop at DAZ, buy stuff, return it with an explanation that they don't work in carrara. Now here is what will get DAZ's attantion, get cash back on your retrun, not a voucher. Vouchers don't take money out of DAZ's wallet.

Now I am about to dump 30 days of purcheses on DAZ sales and suport and ask for a cash refund.

well it may have been the way you went about it, you do have a way with words :p

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/43623/

I will try it my way, and I am ready for the Daz appologists, if no one seems interested then I will give up on 3D art in general, if others wish to be shat on by Daz or any company they have bought stuff from then I will not waste my time

I can tell you what the responces to that post is going to be. It's all your fault. I kid you not. I'm book marking it but I am sure people will offer up excuses and justifications for DAZ. That is if the post doesn't get pulled out right.

Sub total for cash back, $78.

I too know what they will say and as I said I am ready for them, as for Daz pulling it if they do then that will be the nail in the coffin, and the proof we all need :p

Could some one give GumpOtaku my condolences.

Thanks artistX, but watch yourself. The reason I'm not in the challenges is because DAZ told people not to post for me. Even though I am one of the very few, make that elite carraraests that actually uses Genesis and G2F/M.

Don't beleive me? Look at any of the "post your renders" threads there. One person using genesis, and he is a Studio cheerleading cross over user with his head so far in the clouds he can't see the ground crumbeling beneath his feet.

Of corse there is some one hawking their latest web site, and some one else pushing the hell out of iclone.

To be honest I have had it with Daz and the way they treated me when I was a vendor there, they can ban me if they like, not that it will bother me :0)

And there in lies the issue, DAZ doesn't care if they lose carrara users. The way DAZ has been running us off since C7, it's apparent they don't want us around. Unlike Studio fanatics, we complain about issues and expect fixes.

 

Oh, could some one tell DUDU_00001 that holly didn't delete that thread, I asked for it to be done before my account there was closed; which I also asked for. Holly is more of a value to the sight and one of us had to go.

We have removed a post that you made to the "It Had to Happen Sooner or Later…" thread because we do not allow the posting of personal messages from members who are prohibited from posting in their own right

 

Nazi Daz mods strike again

I don't use 8.5. Never bought it because I never felt that it was worth the price they were asking. I've no interest in Genesis. I just want a better Carrara. I can't really add to your thread over at DAZ. Anything I'd say would probably get delelted for being 'off topic'. I'd hate for 'them' to have to go to any trouble on my account. Glad you started it, though. Hope it accomplishes something...anything. Any sort of word from the PTB would be a welcome change from their current bully tactics.

Interesting thing. I notice (at this time) that your thread has over 200 views but only 6 replies (I realize some have been deleted by 'them'). I know from other users of 8.5 that there are more issues than the few listed so far. I'm interested in seeing how this plays out.

For anyone who might be interested, Shade3D Pro is on sale right now, and you can crossgrade from Carrara for $199. This was posted over in the Poser Forum, and thought someone here might be interested.

Shades interface is much different than Carrara's (I don't get along with it very well), but it has some great features, and could make a good companion tool to Carrara, especially if you have Poser Pro (Poser Fusion).

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

So far I have found work arounds for most issues with gensis; named Studio.

There is more to C8.5 then genesis. The soft cloth phtsics is pracktical worth what I paid for C8.5. I was working on one here recently with G2F, V4's sexy dress, and softcloth/pinned. It was one of those strapless number so I pinned it to G2F's chest/back with a very slim line. Worked nice, but I was never happy with the poses. None really showed the drapage well.

But the big push, most touted feature of C8.5 was genesis compatability. Which stumbles a lot then fall flat on it's face in gen2. Which was out months before C8.5. DAZ knew the gen2s weren't C8.5 compatable befor eit came out yet never made it compatable.

Now I have grown quite dependent on Studio 4.6 for far more then want I want to. Yes I wanted it for optitex dynamic sims; which work in C8.5 pretty nicly most of the time. I also wanted it for the Hex bridge; if you haven't tried this you don't know what youa re missing. This is how charcter morphing and clothing fixing should be, wish carrara was comparable.

But no, I pretty well have to stage my figure in Studio; cloth, pose, texture, to finish staging in carrara. Quite often genesis is quite easy to work with this way. G2F on the other hand often errors out. Although I'm sure most of you have seen what I have been doing with genesis, G2f, and that is just the good 25% lol

You really should check some of the tools in Studio for working with genesis, G2F. They are worth having studio on your comp. Thing is, I don't know if you want the latest version. I wont update for fear of losing the present compatability.

"WE have removed several posts from this thread in order to allow it to go back to it’s original purpose."

And this is why there is no reason to try to discuss issues with carrara on the DAZ forum. it gets turned to white bread fast. Any one from DAZ that poped on to read the forum would be clueless because of the sanitized information.

Quote - So far I have found work arounds for most issues with gensis; named Studio.

There is more to C8.5 then genesis. The soft cloth phtsics is pracktical worth what I paid for C8.5. I was working on one here recently with G2F, V4's sexy dress, and softcloth/pinned. It was one of those strapless number so I pinned it to G2F's chest/back with a very slim line. Worked nice, but I was never happy with the poses. None really showed the drapage well.

But the big push, most touted feature of C8.5 was genesis compatability. Which stumbles a lot then fall flat on it's face in gen2. Which was out months before C8.5. DAZ knew the gen2s weren't C8.5 compatable befor eit came out yet never made it compatable.

Now I have grown quite dependent on Studio 4.6 for far more then want I want to. Yes I wanted it for optitex dynamic sims; which work in C8.5 pretty nicly most of the time. I also wanted it for the Hex bridge; if you haven't tried this you don't know what youa re missing. This is how charcter morphing and clothing fixing should be, wish carrara was comparable.

But no, I pretty well have to stage my figure in Studio; cloth, pose, texture, to finish staging in carrara. Quite often genesis is quite easy to work with this way. G2F on the other hand often errors out. Although I'm sure most of you have seen what I have been doing with genesis, G2f, and that is just the good 25% lol

You really should check some of the tools in Studio for working with genesis, G2F. They are worth having studio on your comp. Thing is, I don't know if you want the latest version. I wont update for fear of losing the present compatability.

"WE have removed several posts from this thread in order to allow it to go back to it’s original purpose."

And this is why there is no reason to try to discuss issues with carrara on the DAZ forum. it gets turned to white bread fast. Any one from DAZ that poped on to read the forum would be clueless because of the sanitized information.

Got to agree with you Stan. Studio has some great features that are needed in Carrara. I use studio a fair amount, but I still prefer Carrara. 3Delight still isn't as user freindly as rendering in Carrara (or as fast, unless you really dig under the hood).

I posted a couple of issues in the DAZ thread that I know are things that drive you nuts as well. Don't know if it will do any good, but thought I'd give it a shot.

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My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

Well I managed to get cash back on 2 items $10 isn't going to get DAZ's attention.

I also see that thread at DAZ is going no where. People are just fed up with pointing out issue and fileing bug reports that seem to do absolutly no good.

DAZ quite plain and simple has the carrara community on ignor.

OVERSTEPPED MY BOUNDRIES??? I have some CHOICE words for you but apparently there is no way to PM you through Rendo Stan.

 

Because YOU are such a CHILD, no one is allowed to enjoy ANYTHING because YOU have no consideration or self control.

 

 Cafe is OVER thanks to you Stan. That was your goal all along RIGHT? Little man child can't play with his dolly so everyone becomes your enemy. DUDE you have OVER STEPPED YOUR BOUNDS as a PERSON!

Good bye a-hole! I hope you choke on your stupid Genesis doll. Thanks to YOU and YOU ALONE i am ditching Cafe and Carrara. Go to hell.

Now you see what I had to put up with at the cafe, and why I left it.

Holly I used to have some respect for you, now you don't rate a responce. But don't even try to make me the scape goat for you giving up and quiting. That is all on you.

 

I had this post vanish twice, so if there are three, not my fault lol

Well to be fair Stan you did say some pretty mean things yourself over there to her before you left, and she had every right to say she was getting fed up with the negativity of your post's, you don't have to like it, but she had every right to say it

Quote - Well to be fair Stan you did say some pretty mean things yourself over there to her before you left, and she had every right to say she was getting fed up with the negativity of your post's, you don't have to like it, but she had every right to say it

Ahh now I see what prompted this. Thanks dude. You've been a real help.

And no, no mod has the right to go on a rip like that. More over except for my responce to her; that was quite tame by comparisen, I never said anything mean to Holly. 

But that is not the here and now. Now we are discussing the DAZ carrara forum and what can be done; if anything, to prompt DAZ to talk to us, inform us, and fix the issues in C8.5.

Oh, the open letter wont work, we have tried petitions in the past. Didn't do a bit of good. The only way to get DAZ's attention is to hit them in the wallet, where it counts.

And that is why I am hoping the thread over at Daz will get people saying the same as me, that is I will not spend money on anything in the store that is genesis as it doesn't work, or does with some serious issues, that and the fact I won't be buying C9 unless it's a show stopping version.

If enough peole say the same it may get Daz to notice

I agree. I'd love to think it would do some good. But this is nothing new for me and DAZ, I have been at DAZ about what DAZ has done/is doing to carrara for quite some time. And I have tried to unite carraraest before; I am a terrable rable rouser.

But that is just my nature. The only way to solve a problem is to get on it and stay on it till it is solved. Yes I do tend to obsess. {I know all my flaws, I've had women hand me lists lol}

But the facts remain, and I'm sure most will agree, C8.5 has been mostly a fail since release; at least the genesis compatability part, and DAZ has done nothing to fix it.

It's summer, I'm doing what odd jobs I still can, meaning I have a little bit of money to spend, and CG content is one of the things I want to spend it on. If dawn worked better then genesis in C8.5 I'd be spending my money at hivewire, with old freinds. But I am working with genesis and G2F as best I can, and coming up with some real nice renders, takes some work, a fair amount of effort, and staging the character in studio. But I wanted the poses I spent my money on, if I hadn't I wouldn't have bought them. I didn't want a refund, I wanted them to work in carrara. I could use them in Studio, but I did not buy them to use in Studio.

Which I am suposed to be doing in C8.5, and with out issues that force me to use studio, which was the primary reason for C8.5. And why I bought it. I mean I wouldn't pay for twaeks and bug fixes even though they were they best part of C8.5. I paid to be able to keep up with the DAZ figures and content, not for an app that was incompatable with the latest figure when released.

 

Oh, Sorry, I often forget to thank people for supporting me in this cause.

Thank you

 

Ahh man, just dawned on me; I can be so thick, I could probably have posed the figures in Studio and then resaved the pose, and they probably would work in carrara. As I said I haven't update Studio 4.6 since I downloaded it  the day I bought C8.5; I did the beta I knew what to expect {well I knew what was wrong with the beta  lol}.

Doing Something is better than doing nothing.

We do need at least a little rabble rousing if anything's to be accomplished.

If ArtisX puts up a thread over at Daz, I'll stop round and sign it.

Stan

Is it possible to save a model, let's say a building, that's in DUF format originally, save it as OBJ or something that can be used in Carrara?

Quote - Stan

Is it possible to save a model, let's say a building, that's in DUF format originally, save it as OBJ or something that can be used in Carrara?

For buildings and the like (or even entire scenes) you can use DS to export to obj and import that to Carrara. The export to obj in DS is quite good, and you can export the textures with the obj which makes retexturing much easier.

__________________________________________________________

My Rendo Gallery ........ My DAZ3D Gallery ........... My DA Gallery ......

Quote - Doing Something is better than doing nothing.

We do need at least a little rabble rousing if anything's to be accomplished.

If ArtisX puts up a thread over at Daz, I'll stop round and sign it.

 

Already have :p

You might also try DAZcollada or FBX. But that seems to be a crap shoot, some times they work fine, sometimes things get real jumbled up.

I'll just leave this here and come and get in the morn... 

Well I could add a lot to that thread. It seems light at best. I mean for all the posts there isn't many issues listed. And it may have been better if it was just people listing their issues with C8.5. It might be good if someone went through and made a clear, concise list of the posted issues.

Don't waste time on updates to autofit. It workes based on clones/morphs, something you can actually do your self with Studio. I did so I could use redvipers A4 clothes on genesis. It really isn't that difficult, 10-12 steps mostly automated by Studio. I'd give a tutorial of how to add morph fixes{?} to autofit, but I did it by trial and error and can't remember the steps.  Just assume if I can do it, it isn't that difficult lol

None the less, I'll have to agree one of the big issues with carrara is DAZ not communicating with carraraests. I know DAZ has a priority list for C9. But as has been proven repeatedly in the past, DAZ's priorities aren't the same as carraraests. Most all the people that DAZ devs would have to fear if they communicated on the Carrara forum, aren't on the forum any more. And with carrara lagging so far behind the rest of the pack, I don't see how anything the DAZ devs could be doing with it could be any sort of big hairy industrial secret. And I don't think we want DAZ wasting a lot of developmental time; and as such money, working on something most cararaest aren't interested in and probably may never use.

As in DAZ may want C9 far more content compatable, but I think the carrara community would be more interested in SSS using maps, or fixes to a couple of dozen little aggrivations; I hate mip mapping, I end up with seams in skins quite often because of it, of coarse the shader scroll back issue, and so on.

Yes I want better content compatability, I love working with the latest DAZ dolly, always have. If you could go back in time you'd see I was always one of the first carraraests to jump on the new dolly flavor bandwagon. That is why I have so many morphs for Genesis.

So what is the biggest problem with carrara right now? No word from DAZ about C9 in a year. All this falderal will be moot if DAZ has actually dropped carrara development. All I have is a slip of the tongue to go on, but some times that is good enough for me.

Quote - > Quote - Doing Something is better than doing nothing.

We do need at least a little rabble rousing if anything's to be accomplished.

If ArtisX puts up a thread over at Daz, I'll stop round and sign it.

 

Already have :p

I went over and put in my 2 cents.

Hopefully, someone from Daz will notice.

It is encouraging that it was stickied.

 

placation

pla·cate 1[pley-keyt, plak-eyt] Show IPA

verb (used with object), pla·cat·ed, pla·cat·ing.to appease or pacify, especially by concessions or conciliatory gestures: to placate an outraged citizenry.

I have yet to see a DAZ_  post to that thread. It's like carrying on a conversation with someone that has set their phone down and walked away.

seems like you are trying to piss on me for trying.

They may have looked, they may never look, but at least I can hold my head up and say I tried, which is more than I can say for a lot of Carrara users

Quote - For anyone who might be interested, Shade3D Pro is on sale right now, and you can crossgrade from Carrara for $199. This was posted over in the Poser Forum, and thought someone here might be interested.

Shades interface is much different than Carrara's (I don't get along with it very well), but it has some great features, and could make a good companion tool to Carrara, especially if you have Poser Pro (Poser Fusion).

I think you'll find Shade 3D ver 14 UI fairly easy to use. I have something to admit too - I abandoned Carrara myself years ago. I used to be a Ray Dream user in the 90s and loved it. I also picked up Hexagon and tried that and while I liked the UI in general it was so buggy it was unusable for me (it couldn't import the vast majority of my models in 3DS format).

If you tried Shade years ago (back in the Shade 10 days), you'll remember it being sort of CAD like. Now if you really like that, its still there - you just have to reconfigure the interface for it. But since then, the UI that you use now puts all the tools you need into one very accessible location, while maintaining the Shade Browser which is a fantastic way to work with your models in a hierarchical method. What you need is accessible, non-modal.

Shade Pro is the high end version and normally costs $499 in USD, but the cross grade is $199, so its a great deal. There is a mega-list of features available, but also a list of just the features found in Pro that you don't find in Standard.

I can try to answer your Shade questions if you want to ask them. A great place for answers from a lot of long time users is on the FB forum here.

Best regards,

chikako
Meshbox Design | 3D Models You Want

Quote - seems like you are trying to piss on me for trying.

They may have looked, they may never look, but at least I can hold my head up and say I tried, which is more than I can say for a lot of Carrara users

No not at all. I'm a pessimist; and for good reason, if most everything I do isn't an up hill tooth and nail battle in mud, I figure I'm doing something wrong. If I fix something easy with no hassle, I know it isn't fixed. Eor is my hero.

This goes with my experiance with DAZ. Over the years DAZ has gotten less and less communicative and treated carraraests more and more like second class customers till we get to were we are today. New content, especially for G2F/M, doesn't work in carrara and DAZ has said nothing since the release of C8.5.

The carrara forum at DAZ should be more then contests and commercials. Yes there is the advice, but there should also be some communication from DAZ. Part of a forum is suposed to be communication between the customers/fans and the company/devs.

Why do I make assumptions based on little real info? Because we have nothing else. The addage that no news is good news doesn't work in this case. It's no news is bad news.

I know there wont be a C8.6. Next build of carrara was C9, 3 months over due and not a word from DAZ. What do we know about C9? It might, MIGHT have fixes for the issues in C8.5. Anything else?

Now over due I'm not worried about, I've come to expect it. But no word, no explanation, no "we're working on it", that is quite worrysome.

Quote - Why do I make assumptions based on little real info? Because we have nothing else.

Sadly, your assumptions are usually correct.

 

Quote - The carrara forum at DAZ should be more then contests and commercials. Yes there is the advice, but there should also be some communication from DAZ. Part of a forum is suposed to be communication between the customers/fans and the company/devs.

I have raised this point too in the past. The usual respose I get is that Daz people are tired of being beaten up by people in the forum. This would make some sense if the people they sent in weren't given rubbish to say in the first place to people that have been deprived of news for so long.

I'm not saying beatings SHOULD be handed out to these people, it's just understandable. Like the response you give to some bloke who owes you 25 quid and has been dodging you for a month.

If Daz would just post an announcement. An Intelligent, well thought out announcement and posted it with no way to comment, then that would be something.

Would it make everyone happy? No. But, some of us would appreciate it.

I have been told in PM's that Jared is keeping an eye on the thread I started and has asked a few mods to keep him up to date, I did ask for an official posting from a Daz employee as to what is going on, but nothing forth coming yet, I have let the mods know I will not let this drop.

That is unless I feel like I am the only one trying to get things done, or I feel I am pissing in the wind, then I may drop it.

Well it's quite apparent you have the support of most all the vocal/forum active carraraests, even the eternal optimist. This wave should work better then any I tried to start. You haven't offended so many people And aren't so coarse in your posts.

Ya, I think I'm up to 14 for 17 tsarist.

 

 

Hell, if it wasn't that it would go against my better sense, I'd see about geting my ban dropped to post my short list; sands opinion, to that thread.

I think that man stans assumptions are correct based on the data.

The data being that there is no news on Carrara 9.

A company hoping to sell Carrara 9 would talk it up, would let leaks out, gradually build the excitement.

 

A company not planning on c9 release, or that was planning on selling it, would keep mum.

Daz is keeping quite on the issue.

That tells us quite a lot.

 

Remember when DAZ used to create a void. Remeber all the hype for V4 before she was released? Or the way DAZ hyped Studio4 before it's release; and the riot that followed when they tried to charge for it?

Same with G2F and G2M, but C8.5 bearly merited a forum post.

With C8.5 being in beta for so long it didn't really need any hype, it had already been shown and discussed quite a bit before release. But if it hadn't been for users spreading the word on other forums, most people never would have known it had been released. 

Before DAZ got bought out a few years back I had little birdies at DAZ. If I had a good question I couldn't get a DAZ_ to answer, I'd email Chris. We also had 3 DAZ_ reps that spoke with us often enough on the forum. Yes they may have posted answers few and far between, but they did respond to us; eventually. Now...... nothing. Carraraests are now childern lost in the dark begging for answers and only hearing crickets and tree frogs.

As I said, a slip of the tongue leads me to beleve there will be a C9. But when it may be released and what all it will have is a mystery. When DAZ changed hands it went from a bit of news or a status update once and a while to nothing.

In my opinin DAZ needs to grow a pair, man up, and tell us what is going on. It would be better then this feminen "I know what I have to say will upset you, so I just wont say it" that we are getting now. Just man up, tell us what is going on, and deal with the fall out.

Sorry ladies, but my X was a pro at that. knock, knock, knock, "Oh did I tell you we were having Anna's bachloret party here"?

And that is what I am trying to get them to do, but it's like getting blood from a stone :/

Ok, why is Ringo selling carrara shaders for DAZ figures that don't work in C8.5?

Seriously, I'm sure you can get G2F/M in to carrara, and the morphs will work. I've done it repeatedly. But once there then what? Poses wont work, mats wont work animations wont work. So you load G2F/M, apply the morphs then.... you have a static character.

Now I'm not going to say anything about the skins, I know Ringo does excellent work. But it's like buying a paint job for a car that doesn't run.

 

Oh, could some one PM tiggersprings and tell him preset sences are the way to go. Make sure your cameras and lights load cenetered, then save it as an easy drop in after you load your figure. My best one is free at the carraracafe.

Quote - Oh, could some one PM tiggersprings and tell him preset sences are the way to go. Make sure your cameras and lights load cenetered, then save it as an easy drop in after you load your figure. My best one is free at the carraracafe.

I just did PM Tigger,

by the way, Stan, Tig is also here on Rendo. I usually run into him over at the Prime forum.

http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?userid=430115

Thanks. I don't read the prime forum here, just the carrara and Studio forums. I get in to bad enough arguments DAZ cheerleaders on the Studio forum ;)

Quote - Oh, could some one PM tiggersprings and tell him preset sences are the way to go. Make sure your cameras and lights load cenetered, then save it as an easy drop in after you load your figure. My best one is free at the carraracafe.

Peeks in Hi! Thank you.  I'm a bewildered new Carrara 8.5 Pro user.  :biggrin:  I haven't learned much yet.  This thread concerns me a little; I hadn't realized there were tons of issues with the software that I just bought.  But, I guess that's typical of the 3DVerse.  Luckily, I caught it on some sort of "flash" sale gimmick, and used a couon and some gift certificates, so I didn't pay too much for it.  My only previous experience with it came from one of the parred down "Essentials" versions (but it didn't run well on the old PC).

As far as Genesis... I'm a Poser user, who doesn't use DSON (I tried a couple of times to install it, with only frustration as a reward).  I really dislike Daz Studio and have never made much time for it.  So Carrara 8.5 is my first real taste of Genesis 1.  So far, mixed feelings, mostly because of my inexperience with Carrara's cameras and lights... LOL 

On the subject of Genesis 1 compatibility.... The way to make sure that clothing will be compatible is to make sure there's an obj file, if I've read the contents of this thread correctly?  Is that right? I got this outfit of off FastGrab, and it seemed to load ok, but I didn't get my character posed and stuff before I had to shut down (life is chaos). I thought I saved the scene, but I can't find it this morning. LOL

http://www.daz3d.com/fast-grab-3d-models/space-age-behemoth-outfit

And, for the record, I am a female.  :lol:

Autofit in carrara wont work with out CMS. DAZ shuved that down our throats with the release version. In fact the last beta build was better then the release in many ways. More worked.

"I hadn't realized there were tons of issues with the software that I just bought."

Yes, and DAZ has made damn good and sure no one on the DAZ forums will know. To bad lemon laws don't cover CG apps. Figure if it's a bit older content it will work fine. That also means you can get all that Pclub $1.99 stuff and it should work without issues lol

None the less, once you are used to carrara you will find it superior to Studio in many ways. Even though you will have to learn how to use the shader room ;)

It's easy, like I say "If I can do it, any one can"

Well, for now, Daz Studio is installed. We've been thinking about reformatting the PC, so it might not be there for the long-haul. I even used the DIM, which I never had used before to install all the stuff with the Pro bundles that came with Carrara because I didn't feel like figuring out where to install everything.  I kind of feel like Carrara is a back door to gettiing people to use Studio, too. I wasn't pleased when I realized I was going to have to install DS. LOL But, oh well... I had colllected a few Genesis 1 things in my Daz account over the years, so maybe Carrara will be a way to use them, since I don't want to use DSON or Daz Studio. It's still early days with Carrara yet.

Why would you need to install Studio?

Do get me wrong, I think it's a great suport app for carrara especially when using Genesis G2F/M. But just as a prep app, like Hexagon or Genetica {modeler, textureer}. none the less you don't need it installed to use carrara, or genesis. I'm fairly sure all you would need to install is the genesis, G2F/M essentials.

I've thought about moving my library to my figures folder where all my runtimes are, but Studio and carrara have enough issues reading addresses. C8.5 can't read the texture addesses in Studio saved scenes. In my opinioin it is because Studio assumes you are working in the my library folder so doesn't use a full address; as in my library/runtime/textures/ect when it should be C: Documents/DAZ3D/Studio/my libaray/runtime/ect.

Now I am oposed to DIM and CMS. IMHO DIM is just a way for DAZ to chain newbies to DAZ content. It works with no other content, so if newbies use it all the time they never learn how to install content from other sites and as such puts them off shopping there. Yes the DAZ cheerleaders will try to argue about it's benefits, but there are illusional. Download, unzip, check folders, cut, paste done. Doesn't get any easier then that. The benefit to that is I have checked the content before installation to make sure folders and files are in the right place; or actually there lol And I know where my content is because I put it there, no question if DIM got it right. And just to make it more confusing Studio creats a "my library" folder for content, DIM creats and installs to "my DAZ3D libarary", and content actually comes zipped in a "content" folder. it's my opinion DAZ has done this purposly to confuse people and dicourage them from shopping any place they have to manually install content. There really is no other reason for the content folder mismatched names.

And as far as I'm concerned CMS is just DAZ DRM; and no you are not going to get me to change my mind. It scans your content folder to see what is there then verifies it by your purchesed products page. So DAZ knows real fast if there is any  DAZ content in your folder you didn't buy from DAZ. And as far as keeping track of content updates, well first DAZ would have to update some content {LOL} And if something is updated it moves to the top of your purchesed products list in your account at DAZ; I think.

And the cheery on that sunday is 1/3 of the posts on the DAZ Studio forum are from people having issues with DIM and CMS. That in and of it's self is enough to put me off it. And considering DAZ content might be 1/3 of my content, DIM and CMS would be pretty usless to me.

New and shinny does not mean better ;)

 

DAZ doesn't know "real fast" what you have - DIM gets a list of your files from your account and compares that with the files on your system to see if there are updates, but it doesn't pay any attention to other files and it doesn't report back to DAZ on what it finds either way.

Quote - New and shinny does not mean better ;)

 

That is very often the case with so much, especially with tech stuff these days.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/44239/

As said run the aniblock in Studio; animate2 is invaluable when trying to use aniblocks on genesis, G2F/M. Bake to timeline and save as scene subset. You can then open the scene right in to Carrara. Works fine, done it many times and gives you the added benefit of being able to use Optitex dynamic clothing. {C8.5}

I've been working with aniblocks and optitex clothing since C7 when I had to use DAZ collada; which wroked quite well at one time.

Hey, if DAZ would drop my ban, give me the forum title "doomsayer" and get off my back about my negative opinoin/attitude. They could benefit from the "outside the box" work I do. Really, they would be hard pressed to find some one that uses the Studio/carrara comb as much as I do. lol That is just in case a DAZ_ is reading this and has the power to do it. Do I expect it? Sure, right after DAZ releses C8.6 ;)

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the DIM.  It did make my life a bit easier setting up Carrara Pro 8.5 with Genesis, but if I reformat or clean the PC, I  think I'll just move that entire library over to anoter drive or save it to a dual-layer DVD.

I installed Studio because some of the content of the bundles weren't showing in Carrara.  I installed Studio and ran the database management thing and now they show.  

Sorry for untimely replies. A lot of the time, don't get the bot notifiers in e-mail.

I check this forum regular, if I'm not running my mouth, carrara forums seem pretty dead. And I am always working on something lol

My figures folder has been around since before I got C5. I used to download static people models to smooth and retexture in Metasequoia and then render in Kirkythea.

Still have my mil2 runtimes lol. I've been running multiple runtimes much longer then I have used Studio. There for a long time the only Studio content I used was Optitex clothing; to sim and send to carrara. I've used Studio and the Hex bridge since Studio got some tools.

L I still have my old Mayadoll runtime lol A figure that was ahead of it's time, then forgotten about.

Ey, that is smart content, little more then a sparkely decal on a trunk lid. Wounldn't work with 95+-% of my content. IMHO it really is little more then a customer hook. Best way to keep you from using none DAZ content is to make sure you never see it even after it's installed. Same with DIM, get used to it and how do you install content from any other content vender?

Right now I am having a lot of fun using ghastly's freebie clothes from shareCG. DIM and CMS would be useless with it.

Even at their most innocuous DIM and CMS limit what content you use. Not what you can use, you just have to install it manually and look for it in the regular Studio content folders; not smart content.

I couldn't tell you how many Poser runtimes I have. I know there are lots... I used to know the list by heart, but... Kind of gotten away from me. LOL  I haven't even imported my Poser runtimes into Carrara yet. I've been playing with a mix of it's native content and the stuff from those big bundles hat came with it (Genesis stuff), and the small handful of Genesis 1 stuff that I had purchased (a couple of FastGrabs and stuff).  At one point, I had wanted to try to learn Daz Studio, but it and I never got to be on a friendly basis... :lol:

Oh Studio is easy enough, its just the menus in a submenu's menu can get confusing. lol

The problem with that is I have done stuff that worked great, then couldn't recall how I did it

Remeber all your old Poser stuff should work fine. Mil 2-4 figures work fine. V4/M4 can really show you what carrara can do with figures. As in if modeling in the assembly room worked as well with Genesis/G2F/M as it does the mil 4 figures, most all the issues caused by autofit could be fixed easily.

You can just do a runtime search with carrara, but it adds all of them, even the ones you didn't know you had lol. I have mine sorted by figure, archatecture, assories, flora, vehicals; my props folder exploded lol But I have quite a few runtimes I don't really use any more. They are more for the clothes I have converted to other figures.

I mean I don't use the mil2/3 figures any more, but I still use a lot of their clothes, hair, and assories.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/44601/P15

That is an issue with the way carrara reads ivygen's leaves. Quite a few people have found Ivygen doesn't work with carrara any more. Some change DAZ did borked it.

The only fix it to reUVmap every leaf.

Note: worked/s fine in C7.

Quote - Oh Studio is easy enough, its just the menus in a submenu's menu can get confusing. lol

The problem with that is I have done stuff that worked great, then couldn't recall how I did it

Remeber all your old Poser stuff should work fine. Mil 2-4 figures work fine. V4/M4 can really show you what carrara can do with figures. As in if modeling in the assembly room worked as well with Genesis/G2F/M as it does the mil 4 figures, most all the issues caused by autofit could be fixed easily.

You can just do a runtime search with carrara, but it adds all of them, even the ones you didn't know you had lol. I have mine sorted by figure, archatecture, assories, flora, vehicals; my props folder exploded lol But I have quite a few runtimes I don't really use any more. They are more for the clothes I have converted to other figures.

I mean I don't use the mil2/3 figures any more, but I still use a lot of their clothes, hair, and assories.

Sorry. I didn't get an e-bot notification and i've been a bit distracted...

Unfortunately, I'm not finding life with learning Carrara to be that easy.  When materials do import from Poser-friendly stuff, they look really bad when rendered.  The material poses (in pose folders) usually do not apply in Carrara. In at least one instance, even a Daz Studio friendly character for V4/Genesis I tried looked like materials aren't even apply to the right material zones. I need to investigate that more... I haven't had a lot of time...

Not a very happy experience so far. I won't be giving this program much more time. Maybe two weeks, at best...

Learn the shaders, you will be astounded what you can do in them. First up, standard poser shader refit lol

If shaders don't look right, like the textures aren't aligning, it's the wrong UV. Just ask, you will be hard pressed to find a carraraest that wont try to help ;)

Do you really wan tto give up on this?

Quote - Learn the shaders, you will be astounded what you can do in them. First up, standard poser shader refit lol

If shaders don't look right, like the textures aren't aligning, it's the wrong UV. Just ask, you will be hard pressed to find a carraraest that wont try to help ;)

 

i'm not that far along yet. I hope to learn, but honestly, I have better things to do that apply textures to every material zone, of every item, that I bring into Carrara. I decided to try it because it was supposed to be able to use Poser-friendly content fairly well. Or so I thought. 

Quote - Unfortunately, I'm not finding life with learning Carrara to be that easy.  When materials do import from Poser-friendly stuff, they look really bad when rendered.  The material poses (in pose folders) usually do not apply in Carrara. In at least one instance, even a Daz Studio friendly character for V4/Genesis I tried looked like materials aren't even apply to the right material zones. I need to investigate that more... I haven't had a lot of time...

Not a very happy experience so far. I won't be giving this program much more time. Maybe two weeks, at best...

Stan's right. The more you know about Carrara's shader room the better off you'll be. I'm always, and Stan is too, adjusting Poser shaders in Carrara. My biggest gripe is that awful blue-green color that comes in with most V4 characters. That's the first thing that goes.

I will say that my journey deeper into Carrara's shaders is only just beginning after about 7 years with Carrara. I'm learning a lot and it's fun. I'm working on a project in my spare time that's just about learning shaders.

There are a lot of plugings from Inagoni and Digital Carvers Guild that add a lot of muscle to Carrara's shaders, too.

The simplest ones for Carrara come from Fenric. You can check out his site at Fenric.com and go to his Carrara plugins. He's got some very simple but useful plugins that deal with Poser mats as well as shaders in general. I use his Poser Shader Doctor often. It comes with the free Skin Doctor. Just a few simple clicks and the shaders are set to more Carrara friendly settings.

Also, how materials look have a lot to do with your lighting and render setup. This is all down to personal preference, but I alway make sure that Gamma correction is ticked on and set at 2.2 and scene ambience is set somewhere between 5 and 10 (the default 20 is much too high). The color of the scene ambience can also make a big difference. After that, set up your lights and go.

I know this isn't your first rodeo with 3D and I'm probably telling you much of what you already know, but I just had to toss my two cents into the ring. :)

> Quote - > i'm not that far along yet. I hope to learn, but honestly, I have better things to do that apply textures to every material zone, of every item, that I bring into Carrara. I decided to try it because it was supposed to be able to use Poser-friendly content fairly well. Or so I thought. 

Sorry, no ofence meant but carrara is not a load and shot app.  For the best results you will have to get your hands dirty. Thing is once you have a shader set up; like a figure skin, you can save it and just drag and drop it next time. Also You don't have to do it with absolutly every shader zone, you can get carrara to consolidate duplicate shaders. But it is not a click, click, click, render app.

Quote - http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/44601/P15

That is an issue with the way carrara reads ivygen's leaves. Quite a few people have found Ivygen doesn't work with carrara any more. Some change DAZ did borked it.

The only fix it to reUVmap every leaf.

Note: worked/s fine in C7.

Thank you for that comment. Yeah you'll note by the end of that thread I just deleted the ivy's from my scene. The Ivy was from a non-carrara prop, not make in Carrara. Googling Ivygen I see it is a plugin for Blender, is that correct?

Carrara Pro 8.5 was $65 for me this month, so I jumped in instead of budgeting in Vue or rebooting my machine everytime I wanted to use Bryce (I'm on a Mac, and Bryce no longer works in Mac, so I have it on a windows partition).

Becuase I've used both Carrara 1 and 5 before - I'm familiar enough with it that the UI wasn't as off-putting for me as for some people, and I've seen some of the quirky issues before. Now I just get to play with new quirky issues...

Truth has no value without backing by unfounded belief.
Renderosity Gallery

Quote - Unfortunately, I'm not finding life with learning Carrara to be that easy.  When materials do import from Poser-friendly stuff, they look really bad when rendered.  The material poses (in pose folders) usually do not apply in Carrara. In at least one instance, even a Daz Studio friendly character for V4/Genesis I tried looked like materials aren't even apply to the right material zones. I need to investigate that more... I haven't had a lot of time... Not a very happy experience so far. I won't be giving this program much more time. Maybe two weeks, at best...

Sorry you're having a hard time.

I'm hoping you stick with Carrara, because once you get it, you WILL like it.

It took me awhile to even go into the shader room. I initially found it confusing. I STILL don't really understand UV and how to use the mixers or any of that.

What I do know is how to swap out shaders and THAT is powerful. I took old props, some freebies, swapped the shaders it came with with Carrara shaders and WOW what a difference.

I admit, I have pretty much running and gunning and really haven't FULLY utilised Carrara. I'm STILL very happy with it. 

If you stick with it, I think you will come round.

oooom mixers are fun, especially the new shader mixer where you can mix 2 shaders based on a mask. So say you have an item where part of it should be chrome and the rest leather but it only has one shader. You can use a leather and a chrome shader then use a mask so the chrome shader is only on the metal parts.

The thing is shaders never convert regardless of the app. Studio shaders wont work in Poser. Poser shader work some what in studio but stil need tweaking. 3DS shaders wont work in C4D, Lightwave shaders wont work in Vue, Bryce shaders wont work in Blender and so on. Even though I can load the model with textures, shaders wont transcribe.

I'll also agree, as long as I have been using carraa there are still settings and features I have no clue how to use, or use best. And there are still settings in the render room that mystify me.

"Vapor Pens and Hookah" well I guess we see where DAZ stands on this topic lol

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/42386/

Quick some one save him from DAZ's brain washing. You absolutly do not need CMS to access new content. You don't need CMS at all. It doesn't work with 99% of the content I use all the time. Don't let DAZ limit you to DAZ content, that is what DIM and CMS is all about, a way to dissuade you from using any nonDAZ content.

And if mac comes out with a new OS, mac carrara users will be screwed because DAZ will not update C8.5 to the new OS.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/11254/P30/

That has been an issue since C7. Carrara has issues with trasparencys/alphas close to the model when using GI. You have the same problem with eyebrowse on mill3 figures and hair on any figure. I've gripped about it repeatedly just to be blown off.

You can try turning off the item cast shaow, but this only works rarely.

Why do you think mil4 and genesis/G2 have no seperate eyebrow mesh now? Because they cast shadows; even in Studio.

I'm pretty sure I tried the things to person in the last post suggested - but I'm not 100% sure, so when I 'get home and get the chance' I am going to test it one last time - because think the 'double prop-prop' still freaked out when GI was on, even when I tried his suggestions.

I do know I did try flipping off cast and recieve shadows on the prop.

BUT I did NOT turn off shadows on the base genesis-2-human figure... (obviously turning that off would create serious other issues in the look of a render...)

 

I guess if I wanted to get into adult-animation with Carrara, I'd be exploring my M4/V4 collection... and I could see people needing that being very upset because it does appear that genesis compatability was the point of the 8.5 upgrade.

I am mildly curious now as to what app people who do such animation actually do use - given that the quality of such animation has been horrid everytime I wandered across it, maybe they're just sticking to Poser / Daz directly?

(Then again the poor scene composition and dismal lighting of such animations tends to imply the lack of quality rendering is not due to app-choice... :) ).

Truth has no value without backing by unfounded belief.
Renderosity Gallery

Quote - I guess if I wanted to get into adult-animation with Carrara, I'd be exploring my M4/V4 collection... and I could see people needing that being very upset because it does appear that genesis compatability was the point of the 8.5 upgrade. I am mildly curious now as to what app people who do such animation actually do use - given that the quality of such animation has been horrid everytime I wandered across it, maybe they're just sticking to Poser / Daz directly?

(Then again the poor scene composition and dismal lighting of such animations tends to imply the lack of quality rendering is not due to app-choice... :) ).

I use Carrara for animation.

I can't speak for the lighting (I do the best I can), but it helps to be a decent vidoegrapher or photographer and translate that experience to Carrara.

Yes the mill 4 figures would work best for this, there are any number of detail morphs that will work with out issue; I assume from what little I have seen, I mean while checking RenderE{yes I am regestered there  }. But with out proper lighting and smooth animation an intimate scene might as well be flippage porn lol

My advice on intimate lighting is short drop off. Start with 100% drop off at 1m. Lean it to the red/orange, make it warm. Holly is much better at this sort of lighting then I am.

 

Sorry, not a big advocate of "PoserPorn". But the biggest issue I have seen in the few animations I've stumble across, is the characters are rigid and weightless. Good animation takes more then just the motions.

 

 

Did you ever get a school book where something was drawn in the corners so if you flipped through it seemed to aniamte? Flippage animation lol

Was just lurking around the Carrara forum and got into reading this thread, but it's been sad reading if I'm understanding it correctly.

Have DAZ stopped development of Carrara?

If so, I'm really very sorry to hear that because although I don't use Carrara, I do have it and like it very much (in fact I even have a copy of RayDream Studio from years back which is what it used to be called).  But yup, I purchased the Carrara 8.5 Pro upgrade not loo long ago.  I hope I'm misunderstanding what I read here because to lose Carrara would be to lose one of the most powerful all-in-one solutions out there!

I'd say that's an incredibly dumb move if they've ditched Carrara.

Nobody here knows the status of Carrara. Speculation and rumor. I do know that DAZ isn't particularly good at communicating. That's for certain. 

According to an independent survey about 5 years ago, Carrara was the third most installed CG software. Many hobbiest to be sure, but I don't think DAZ will be dropping a product with that kind of market penetration - especially if it helps sell digital content. . 

Due to a slip of the tongue I'm more posative about C9 then negative. But I have heard nothing official.

And I can understand why DAZ is hezitent to say anything. Their past track record of what they said was going to happen and what actually happened is very bad. I wont say they were lieing, just over confident in their ability to deliver.

But I think most will agree DAZ has never had a good grip on carrara's handle. As in they don't seem to know how to market it or how to devleope it to retain long time carrara users.

What was the slip of the tongue you caught, Stan?  Last I heard anything, it was supposed to be C9 in 1st quarter of 2014, but we're past that now and not a peep... 

 

Sure would like for Carrara development to continue, it is my favorite app by far.  Nothing else comes close to what Carrara can do as an all-in-one solution.

I noted in one of the threads over on Daz...

Its thorny because it competes with their main application: Daz Studio.

Its poorer competition in some ways (assembly room and model compatibility) but then far better in others.

BUT mostly... Carrara is not a beginner app. You don't have to be advanced for it... but you need to be beyond just loading in the latest naked female character and hitting the make art button...

And that is risky.

Because selling nude female character is the bread and butter of a digital-Barbie shop.

Anything that makes it harder for your customer to play with the dolls is bad.

Carrara is fine as a 'now that you have learned Daz, move on to this' application... except it isn't. Its NOT 'Advanced Daz Studio' - you open it and end up seeing a UI based not on Daz Studio, but on a fork from Poser 4. Carrara is using a UI developed by Metacreations, and refined over the years...

So its got this odd space to fill...

It would be the perfect application to sell for the customers who have moved beyond the make-art button but are not professional modelers... except that to be in that niche it should work well with Daz Studio from a training perspective, rather than against.

You could make C9 use Daz Studio's UI and drop the Assembly room for just having it bolt onto the side of Daz Studio... and then anger all of your existing Carrara users...

Or you could revise Daz Studio's UI to be that of Carrara's Assembly, Shader, and Render rooms... and anger all of your existing Daz Studio users...

The ideal solution in that... isn't.

Truth has no value without backing by unfounded belief.
Renderosity Gallery

Quote - Nobody here knows the status of Carrara. Speculation and rumor.

That's true. Unfortunately, one person putting forth speculation is based on a reliable source and unfortunately (in this case) the person has been more accurate than not.

Quote - I do know that DAZ isn't particularly good at communicating. That's for certain.

True.

Quote - According to an independent survey about 5 years ago, Carrara was the third most installed CG software.

Wow. I hadn't heard that. That's GOOD news.

Quote - but I don't think DAZ will be dropping a product with that kind of market penetration - especially if it helps sell digital content. .

I agree, but then again stranger things have happened.

I guess all we can do is keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

"According to an independent survey about 5 years ago, Carrara was the third most installed CG software."

wow that's interesting, I wonder who did the survey, what the number of participants were, where they found these particpants and who the first two softwares were, also I note the word 'installed' isnt the same word as 'used'.

I love Carrara, I dont want everybody using it then I wouldn't be 'special...' ;)

I know, I'll always be special, go on , say it.....

While contacting DAZ about all the issues with C8.5; namely that it wasn't very good at what it was built to do, be compatable with Genesis. It sliped that there wouldn't be an C8.6 and I might expect fixes in C9.

DAZ is notorius about not saying anything that might curtail sales. So like Bryce and Hexagon, DAZ would never say Carrara was out of development for fear of curtailing Carrara sales. So even though it was hinted that there was going to be a C9, there really is no reason to beleive there actually will be. 

 

My banning is an example. I posted for a third time; because the first two posts got removed, an answer to the question "should I buy Genesis items of G2F items". I told them Genesis was out of development and DAZ was doing nothing more with it. Oh at the time DAZ said genesis was still under development and I was banned for my "wild speculations". Guess what? Yep, DAZ never did another damn thing with Genesis.

So even if a DAZ rep stepped up and said "Carrara 9 has been delaid because of a compatability issue the subcontracter is having dificulties working out". I still wouldn't believe them till it came out.

 

None the less, that slip of a tongue from some one at DAZ is the best hope I have gotten for C9 so far.

Thanks all for the heads-up, looks like a wait and see situation then

I hope it turns out well for Carrara, and to be fair, I think in the long run it probably will.  DAZ never struck me as a company that know how to structure a business (I think there's plenty of things they've done that is proof enough of that already).  They just seem to potter along, trying to balance this with that, hoping that the outcome of one venture will be enough to fund the next.

To me, that's just the way they seem to operate, but who knows.

It's obvious DAZ Studio is going to get the most attention, it's the only program they own that they've developed from the ground up - it's the only one that is truly their baby.  If anything, I'd guess the delay for Carrara 9 is getting the Genesis stuff working well, because from a content point of view, that's their baby as well.

I like carrara 8.1 , it's to daz's detriment that gen x is a pita to get to work. ie don't worry be happy make art and  Have fun 

**
@manleystanley**
Sorry, hadn't seen you post when I replied.

So you're banned from DAZ?
Join the club :biggrin:

I'm even on a last warning here :scared:

I got to watch myself. I have been band from the Defiance forum; game, twice. Each time I pointed out I haddn't technically violated the TOS. So they unbanned me.... and changed the TOS lol

Quote - I know, I'll always be special, go on , say it.....

'it'

You know you saw that coming, right?

**
@manleystanley**
Tried that, they still banned me though!

@David
Last time I heard a joke like that it was coming from ... well ... you :biggrin:

Heh, heh.

One of the biggest issues I had on the DAZ forum is I can't speak polititon. I mean no matter what I do I can't express a negative emotion about a negative subject, in a positive way. You are free to express a negative opinion on the DAZ forum as long as you don't do it in a negative way    

 

Why so much aggressive obsession against the DAZ company ?
We have C8 which works very well !
I don't know C8.5, but thanks to its exit, DAZ shows us that they works on the program.
I know, it is with the main goal of integrating Genesis and all the items which go with it, but we don't need that to carry out excellent things in Carrara which still forms part of the best softwares of the moment.
I believe that the “Wait and see” is much more constructive than unfruitful speculations, which should not prevent us to informing DAZ what the users would like to see evolving or integrating in the program…

Quote - Why so much aggressive obsession against the DAZ company ?
We have C8 which works very well !
I don't know C8.5, but thanks to its exit, DAZ shows us that they works on the program.
I know, it is with the main goal of integrating Genesis and all the items which go with it, but we don't need that to carry out excellent things in Carrara which still forms part of the best softwares of the moment.
I believe that the “Wait and see” is much more constructive than unfruitful speculations, which should not prevent us to informing DAZ what the users would like to see evolving or integrating in the program…

We have been doing that since DAZ bought carrara, I have seen very little evidence DAZ is listening to anything we say. The fact that there isn't/not going to be a C8.6 is proof enough of that.

The angst is easy enough to explane, most carraraest are sick and tierd of be treated like second class customers.

DAZ sells content. It is in DAZ best interest then to make sure the apps it develops are compatable with said content. C8.5 was 2 years in the making to make it compatable with DAZ content. Before release DAZ knew it wasn't compatable with G2F/M or geographting, and that is was only margenally compatable with genesis/DUF. DAZ released C8.5 anyway and in a year has done nothing to update it to make it compatable with the figures it was suposed to be being built to be compatable with.

In other words DAZ isn't interested in selling carraraests content. If DAZ was carrara would have been updated to be compatable before release, and would have been updated to be able to use the latest releases; if you have bought poses/mat/morphs made in the last 6 months you would know carrara is not compatable with some DUF format change DAZ has made.

If you are going to charge me for a version of Carrara that is suposed to be compatable with the next generation of figures you had best make sure it is actually compatable. I do most all of my genesis/G2F/M staing in Studio because C8.5 isn't that compatable, certainly not with G2F/M or any of the latest posers, mats, or morphs.

With all that I read like negative points about the version c8.5, I quite simply did not make the upgrade…
I don't need it, what Genesis have moreover than Generation 4 ?
It is necessary to also say that I'm not a purchaser of items DAZ, I builds the maximum myself either uses free objects from ShareCG or Renderosity.
The majority of my commercial objects come from Poser or are included in Carrara.
I prefer to await a possible version 9, but if it not include, for example, the dynamic clothing simulation (animated), or an improvement of the particles system, I' ll be not either interested…
I'm not on the forums since a long time, but if I read what you written, the solution would be that another company repurchases Carrara ?

Quote - With all that I read like negative points about the version c8.5, I quite simply did not make the upgrade…
I don't need it, what Genesis have moreover than Generation 4 ?

Easy versatility and autofit. ya it works poorly in C8.5 but the truth is it works about as well as it does in Studio  ; sands the CMS prerquisit. I can dress Genesis in virtually any mil3/4 clothes for pratically any character. Even though I have to do it in Studio and why I am consistently aggitated that DAZ hasn't fix it in C8.5. {Fixed as in works as well with G2F/M and with out the CMS requirement.}

More over in Studio I can easily fix autofit issues by simply sending to Hex2.5 and fixing it lol C8.5 wont let you fix it.

Quote -
It is necessary to also say that I'm not a purchaser of items DAZ, I builds the maximum myself either uses free objects from ShareCG or Renderosity.

If that is what you like doing. I worked that way 10 years ago. Still make things for scenes when I can't find what I want. But why cut up food with a small knife when I have a food processer? Shopping at DAZ for content to use in carrara suports carrara; maybe, not even sure DAZ takes in to account what app you are buying the contnet to use in. But it's certainly not like DAZ has done much aside from giving me refunds, to make me feel like a valued customer; think about it. DAZ is more whiling to give me my money back then retain me as a customer.

Quote -
The majority of my commercial objects come from Poser or are included in Carrara.
I prefer to await a possible version 9, but if it not include, for example, the dynamic clothing simulation (animated), or an improvement of the particles system, I' ll be not either interested…

To date I haven't heard anything about what might possibly be in C9. May be little more then what C8.5 was promissed to be.

Quote -
I'm not on the forums since a long time, but if I read what you written, the solution would be that another company repurchases Carrara ?

Don't see it happening. DAZ would rather it wither on the vine then have some other company pick it and become compatition.

DAZ has hidden a light under a basket, and let it go out.

aH Daz let the basket go out? Again? Needs more petrol....  :)

"It' Books by david, no I didnt see 'it'coming :)

Quote - aH Daz let the basket go out? Again? Needs more petrol....  :)

"It' Books by david, no I didnt see 'it'coming :)

Man, you better watch 'it'. You could step in 'it'. You don't want 'it' all over your shoes. You could put 'it' in that basket, though.

I'm out, I just can't do this any more. I'm weary of this battle with DAZ, I'm sick of fighting to try to get a scene staged, I'm fed up with wating for DAZ to fix something, I'm tired of spending money just to turn around and get a refund.

I just do not want to do this any more. I can thank DAZ for killing my artistic interests. This is suposed to be enjoyable but it has gotten far to frustrating to be enjoyed.

Mans tan, stick around, have fun like the rest of us, daz doesn't really exist except in our minds, they are just an artificial construct written by the guy who wrote do androids dream of electric sheep,  you are fighting something that doesn't exist, just make art and post it here so we can learn from it, 

 

cheers from here !

Quote - Mans tan, stick around, have fun like the rest of us, daz doesn't really exist except in our minds, they are just an artificial construct written by the guy who wrote do androids dream of electric sheep,  you are fighting something that doesn't exist, just make art and post it here so we can learn from it, 

 

cheers from here !

 

Well said!

thanks :)

 

yes you cant fight something that doesnt exist,

well you can never win, but then again, you can never lose - except within your own mind :)

Quote - I'm out, I just can't do this any more. I'm weary of this battle with DAZ, I'm sick of fighting to try to get a scene staged, I'm fed up with wating for DAZ to fix something, I'm tired of spending money just to turn around and get a refund. I just do not want to do this any more. I can thank DAZ for killing my artistic interests. This is suposed to be enjoyable but it has gotten far to frustrating to be enjoyed.

Hang in there Stan.

Daz is frustrating a LOT of us these days.

Don't let them grind you down.

"I just do not want to do this any more. I can thank DAZ for killing my artistic interests. This is suposed to be enjoyable but it has gotten far to frustrating to be enjoyed."

If it's any consolation I feel exactly the same, have done for many, many years.  I think the main problem is the way these software companies are structured.  It's just not conductive to a healthy product and it seems there are no laws against the sheer incompetence the purchasers have to put up with regards bugs in a software product because I know of no other industry where a company can charge for a product and not deliver what was advertised, in full working order.

The only way to avoid it is to go back to traditional media; draw, paint, airbrush or whatever, and you'll even have a physical peice of art to show for it.  No companies, no manipulation, no file format restrictions, no bugs, no compatibility to worry about.  Draw, and the only thing you need to concern yourself with is sharpening your pencil.

Although I still mess around with 3D, I've already gone back to drawing traditionally now and then, started slowly getting back into it a while back.  I reached your current level of unbearable dismay a long time ago.  You're so right, and I know for a fact that these companies destroy artistic passion because they well and truly destroyed mine for every waking moment I was dependent upon their products.

As you would expect, creativity is reignited since getting back into traditional media - in fact it never left.

But you'll never drop 3D no matter how pissed-off you get with the software vendors.  Trust me, pick up a pencil and draw, and if you can't draw, learn to draw, visit YouTube and you'll discover it's actually the 3D market that is the minority, traditional still rules and there's masses of stuff out there on YouTube and the web teaching it.  Having something else to keep you occupied means that you can take it all in your stride, they can't effect you because you're not dependent upon their product anymore.

If this were a few years back, I'd very likely be mouthing-off about the state of Carrara, but because I'm back into the traditional stuff, I couldn't care less.  The reason I couldn't care less is because my creativity isn't at the mercy of a company anymore.  If inspiration strikes, I pick up a pencil.  Nothing, no company and no person can stop me.

It's their product, Stan, and they'll either sort their programs out or will go out of business eventually because people will only stand for a finite level of instability and problems.  The dumbest company of all is the one that thinks it can treat customers to bug ridden software when there are free alternatives out there that actually work

It's like tsarist said, don't let them grind you down.  They got me down, they even turned me into a whiner.  I'm a totally different person since I started using forums, because although I've made friends over the years I feel like I've been subjected to a massive wave of stress that should never have existed.  It's been a constant struggle to either get the tool I want, to have it do what it's supposed to do - and both.

It ain't ever gonna happen mate, and the only thing that'll ever result in all of this for both you (and I) is that eventually we'll be banned from the communities we like being a part of.  Already neither of us can visit DAZ anymore, but the fact that our tempers are the result of their own incompetence, has no bearing in any of it, and it never will.

Companies hate being told what epic failures they are, it never did go down well.

Visit a forum for 3D software and you'll notice the topics are almost entirely about bugs and problems and how to get something to work.  It's a rarity these days for it to be about "art" or "creativity".  Visit a forum for traditional media though, and you'll find yourself transformed into another world.  It's all about art and creativity because none of that other crap exists in the world of traditional media.

See what I mean?

Well I give up on Carrara and Daz now, the thread I started over there can rot for all I care, I tried to help, tried to get things moving, but in the end no one wanted to get off their ass and do anything, so they can stay with a broken app.

Last time I try to help a "community"

Here in Belgium, we always says “we cannot make drink an ass which is not thirsty!”.
Personally, I'm follower of Carrara since version 1 and when I see the other 3D programs as they evolve, I believe that, when my film in progress will be finished, I will see the competition (certainly not DAZ Studio)…
You do something usefull, it is well and I'm sure that DAZ takes into account the interventions on your thread, but why this silence ???
It would be quite pleasant to share the problems with them!

Daz has unsticked the thread over at Daz as they say you have to go through the Zen Desk, I am done with Daz, I will continue to use Carrara as I have just bought Octane, other than that Daz will not be getting any of my cash

I think that if it is unsticked it will be more visible, with the condition to feeding it regularly.
I never think to looking at the threads with the yellow files and I'm certainly not alone!

Quote - Daz has unsticked the thread over at Daz as they say you have to go through the Zen Desk, I am done with Daz, I will continue to use Carrara as I have just bought Octane, other than that Daz will not be getting any of my cash

 

dont worry, it was a good try

I didnt contribute because I dont use 8.5 though I own it. - so I had nothing to say!

Daz can go F themselfs now, they have removed many posts I made pointing out the flaws, and rather than address them, they just removed the posts, and gave BS reasons, typical Daz.

The way they treat their so called customers is disgusting, and has left me very hostile towards a company I liked, guess I now know how Stan feels :p

Maybe I should go back to Poser, at least that works

Hi, the wonderful thing is, when you make a post , subsribers to the thread get an email withe post, but when we go there there is an offer to log in, that way we get to reaf the post, and see it has been censored..... Until you get banned that is. Daz is about  making money. You are hurting their income. Its their cricket bat, they make the rules .... On their forum anyways...  Sorry about the typos.... Just make the use of their rules. Its like the matrix, if you get my meaning.

Oh don't worry, I took the Mod's to task for removing a whole post that had a few good ideas in, and advised them that in order to be better mod's it would be best for them to edit the parts of the post that so say break the ToS, and marking it as edited, instead of removing it completely, but if this is how Daz wants to be then they can kiss my behind

DAZ knows I am a rabel rouser, I have freely admitted to it. But you can't rouse an apithetic rabel. We live in a generation of apithy, people are quicker to make excuses for bad application development, then do anything about it. It is all too common in video game players.

I, as well as quite a few here, are old enough to remember what a united people could do to change a company's polices.  But this generation lacks the comitment it takes to change things. As I have said on a few game forums; what? You think I'm different else where? If 75% of the regular players did not log in for 24-48 hours, they would have the developers undivided attantion Wont ever happen.

To get DAZ to do something; even if it's make a statement, you couldn't reach enough carraraests that would commit to an act, with out usings DAZ's carrara forum. I'll toss out off the top of my head numbers and say only 10-15% of carraraests read this forum. Less for the carraracafe. There are other carrara forums but they are about dead. So it would be rather difficult to reach enough carraraests.

I don't know, in order to even try to do something you would have to find a way to reach all carraraests, and a place to meet/chat on line. And you would have to have the heavy hitters of carrara onboard.

Now I have no credability with the big dogs; can't say I blame them. But in order to get DAZ's attantion, you will need at least 3/4 of carraraests commited to doing something, and do it.

 

{nope, this part stepped over the line, thought better of it in the proof read}

This generation or any other have nothing to do with it, I think they just understand that Daz couldnt give a crap about them so why bother, I really did like Daz and wanted to try and help them out, but after this, and the lack of help from the so called community, I will not bother again, and I would advise anyonme thinking of doing something in reguards to Carrara to seriously leave me out of it, I will limp on with 8.1 for now, removed 8.5 due to the immence bugginess of it, and see where my Art takes me, but after all this I am one step away from leaving it and finding something else to do as a hobby

Quote - This generation or any other have nothing to do with it, I think they just understand that Daz couldnt give a crap about them so why bother, I really did like Daz and wanted to try and help them out, but after this, and the lack of help from the so called community, I will not bother again, and I would advise anyonme thinking of doing something in reguards to Carrara to seriously leave me out of it, I will limp on with 8.1 for now, removed 8.5 due to the immence bugginess of it, and see where my Art takes me, but after all this I am one step away from leaving it and finding something else to do as a hobby

ArtistX

I wouldn't be too harsh. A lot of us went over and supported you in the Daz forum. 

Like you, I'm disappointed in 8.5. When you can read in the forums that one person says it's great and they have no problem, the next guy says it's crap and doesn't work for damn, that should raise a massive red flag at Daz HQ.

Genesis SHOULD work right out of the box for damned near everyone. Daz bet the farm on Carrara, created a rift between Poser community and DS community (compatibility wise) and made Carrara less stable than it has been in awhile (I never had trouble with C6 or C7). Genesis should work as effortlessly as V4. No weird workarounds, no "it works for me, but not for you" rubbish.

Anyhow, stick with us ArtistX.

I think it is just frustration and anger atm, plus I have a few medical issues to deal with which aren't helping, but my mind is made up with Daz, apart from the odd Howie Fawkes scene as and when one comes out, that will be the only thing I get from there, clothes and other stuff I will not buy as its for the Genesis crap, which doesnt work in any program other than DS, so I won't waste my time or money on it.

Might be able to save up for Octane for Poser and the Enhance C plugin by not buying all the other junk I used to, about the only plus side I can see :p

Quote - Daz bet the farm on Carrara, created a rift between Poser community and DS community (compatibility wise)

THIS SHOULD HAVE READ

**
**Daz bet the farm on Genesis, created a rift between Poser community and DS community (compatibility wise)

sorry, the edit button vanished on me.

More censorship from the Daz mods, Daz really doesn't like it when you point out a few home truths do they :D

Here is the post they have "temporarily removed for review"

Cristina Galloway, Oct 07 14:38:

I apologize for the inconvenience. Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do.

The developers are well aware that there are Carrara customers waiting for a new release. I can relay your message, however; you message will be heard by more using the forums (censored or not).

Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with.

Thanks,
Crissie

Which is ironic, when you show how displeased you are with Daz they remove your post's - :D

Here, it is the proof that DAZ has like absolute rule : “not to communicate with the users”!
I would have hoped that it stays only a commercial tactic, but obviously, it's not the case…

ArtistX

Sorry you got posts removed.

I think they remove a percentage of my posts as Standard Operating Procedure.

I tried to "play nice" and post kittens and rainbows, but a few Dazzers who knew me called me out on it (via PM) because my posts then meant nothing.

So, I post every so often, but not much. 

I'm too busy anyway.

I am done with Daz, I now see all they care about are the people who drink their kool aid, use Genesis, and use the toy program that is Daz Studio.

Oh and the final insult is that they have deleted my "Help" request, where I pointed out a few things and told them I would no longer be a customer while they treated people like dirt, so they have shown themselves to be excatly what I said in my posts and emails.

I would post an official complaint to the "help desk" and their forum, but see little point as the nazi mods would remove it and the help desk would delete it again.

For those of you still holding out hope I would give up, seems Daz has made itself loud and clear on Carrara

I refuse to give up on Carrara, but I gave up on DAZ long ago.

Good news Manley :)

Good to see you back!

Consider banging your head against a brick wall, who gets hurt? The bRick wall or your head? 

Walk away from the brick wall and at least one of you will be better off :) 

The silence from DAZ about C9 is defening. It's my opinion DAZ is trying to figure out some way to get out of developing carrara with out losing carraraests as customers.

Even Studio; which may be updated once and a while, is far past it's time for a new build. Studio 4 is the longest running build of studio so far.

As I have said DAZ is little more then a content broker any more, the biggest profit from the least work or expence.

Ignoring customers is no way to keep their busness.

Too late to add this to above. When I saw it I about busted a gut laughing. Carrara hasn't had an update since release over a year ago lol http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/47406/

latest version

I did reply to that thread but yet again the daz nazi's (mods) removed my post for telling people the truth

 IamArtistX, We have removed a post that you made to the "Latest version of Carrara 8.5 Pro" tread for being both an attack and pure speculation. You have made several posts of this nature recently and so we give you warning that if this sort of Posting behaviour continues we will have no option but to temporarily suspend your posting privileges

My Reply

Sorry but it is bassed on what I have seen and have had done to me by daz, we all know daz doesnt like the facts being told to the masses so do what ever you like as this proves my point excatly, you silence people, I have used C8.5 since it was beta so when I say it was slapped together i know that foir a fact as I BETA TESTED IT.

Please show me where my post was an attack, and please show me how it was speculation when daz THEMSELVES have said they are more interested in being a BROKERAGE, they have said it in the forums.

They say the truth hurts, and you may be able to silence me on the daz forums, but you can silence me everywhere

 

So now I am 100% done with them, this is how they treat "customers" like crap just because some of us have the guts to stand up to them

Quote - I did reply to that thread but yet again the daz nazi's (mods) removed my post for telling people the truth

 IamArtistX, We have removed a post that you made to the "Latest version of Carrara 8.5 Pro" tread for being both an attack and pure speculation. You have made several posts of this nature recently and so we give you warning that if this sort of Posting behaviour continues we will have no option but to temporarily suspend your posting privileges

 

This is the reason I don't post over there very often. They yank down posts at whim and it really keeps us from having an honest discussion.

 

I got PMs from people who supported my posts back when people were upset about the new "PC Club +". The only posts that didn't get yanked down or shouted down were Pro Higher prices.

 

I'm spending what money I do have over here at Rendo for the most part.

Yup, DAZ will surely ban you for telling the truth and then call it speculation. It's not wild speculation if it is based in fact and holds true over time. And assumptions don't seem so unfounded when they become facts.

I'm not worried about it. I'm just setting here eating popcorn watching long time DAZ customers leave DAZ. Watching the quality of the DAZ galleries go down as the most talented render artist move on.{my holloween renders "night nurse" and "Sister Vivian{?}, goblin slayer" will be postsed to my gallery here}

DAZ's only options now are a 3; going on 4, year old version of Studio; which is the last version of Studio developed by the origenal DAZ crew. And Carrara 8.5; which the same could be said of {C8.5 was in production when that online avatar company bought out DAZ}.

And that is when things started going horrably wrong at DAZ. Ya, I had issues with the way DAZ has done things since I was conscripted with Carrara 5, but it went from aggrivating to infuriating when that new company took over. And DAZ has done no real application development since. All they have done is some updates to Studio and slapped a few bandaids on the C8.5 beta and called it a realese version. {Then took a big step back from thier promised release pricing, and wondered why people weren't grabbing the crappy end of the stick they were offered}.

I'm sure most will agree that I am one of the most stubborn men they have ever met, and I have given up on DAZ.

When you make it all about the profit it is nolonger about the customers, and as such, costs you long term customers. People will eventually get fed up with the crap and move on.

I have given up on Daz, I pointed out to the mods in the email I sent that it was not an attack or speculation as i beta tested C8 and C8.5 so i was fully aware of what Daz had done to it, so when I said it was a mismash i was speaking from expeience, they have yet to respond to my request explaining how having beta tested i could speculate on it being a mish mash.

I aslo asked them to prove it was speculation or an attack when i said daz didnt care about its customers, as they never bothered in over 3 months with the thread I made, and the fact i am hearing how disgusted people are with the way daz has treated them.

I still havent had a response nor do i expect to, as I know they cannot prove either, yet what they have accused me of is excatly the thing they are doing to me, attacking and speculating as to why I am saying what i am.

 

So F**K Daz - I hope they go bust

Quote - Yup, DAZ will surely ban you for telling the truth and then call it speculation. It's not wild speculation if it is based in fact and holds true over time. And assumptions don't seem so unfounded when they become facts. I'm not worried about it. I'm just setting here eating popcorn watching long time DAZ customers leave DAZ.

 

Yeah, that's the funny part. There were a LOT of people posting back during the PC Club "Plus" debacle saying the new club was rubbish. Then those posts would vanish and Daz would say how all but a few were discontented losers and the club was the best thing ever.

These were LONGTIME PC Club members speaking out.

If the new PC Club was so good, why bar people from being able to go back to PC Club original?

Why get rid of the opposing views?

Why did the new club get snuck in and forced on us without warning?

Daz didn't like my questions and deleted them.

Sad

To answer your questions chaching

Need to start typing it as "DA$"

Attached Link: Shade 3D ver 14 Professional

> Quote - For anyone who might be interested, Shade3D Pro is on sale right now, and you can crossgrade from Carrara for $199. This was posted over in the Poser Forum, and thought someone here might be interested. > > Shades interface is much different than Carrara's (I don't get along with it very well), but it has some great features, and could make a good companion tool to Carrara, especially if you have Poser Pro (Poser Fusion).

Shade Pro is on special now until 11/01/2014 for $199, even without the crossgrade.

Best regards,

chikako
Meshbox Design | 3D Models You Want

Quote - > Quote - For anyone who might be interested, Shade3D Pro is on sale right now, and you can crossgrade from Carrara for $199. This was posted over in the Poser Forum, and thought someone here might be interested.

Shades interface is much different than Carrara's (I don't get along with it very well), but it has some great features, and could make a good companion tool to Carrara, especially if you have Poser Pro (Poser Fusion).

Shade Pro is on special now until 11/01/2014 for $199, even without the crossgrade.

So, it's $199 either way? Or does the crossgrade come in even lower than the sale price? Just curious.

wow, new forum look here. But does it function better.

Hey, my spell checker works now, so that is a hugantic improvement lol

Oh my got, the renderosity forum has stepped up to the 21st century. O.O

Argh!, Lost one thread.

Ok, I guess I need a tutorial on how to post a thread with this new forum software. I've had 3 vanish after posting.

Ok, I give up, I just can not post a new thread. That is 4 times it looked like I was starting a new thread which just does not make it to the forum.

You didn't know that you were censured here too ?

You didn't know that you were censured here too ?

No I'm not censured here lol The new forum software is screwing up. or there is some button some place I need to click to post new thread to the forum and I ain't finding it. ok, I feegurditout.

Was reading the DAZ carrara forum; like the work diomede64 is doing. I will refrain from  comments about other forumites.

But to respond to diomede64 post on "Best practices? using genesis and genesis 2 content in Carrara" Why ask why? Why did DAZ include geographte parts as part of the the C8.5 freebies when DAZ knew good and well they didn't work? Why did DAZ break modeling in the assembly room so fixing poke though wasn't as easy as it was for the mil 4 figures? Why hasn't DAZ done anything to fix C8.5 issues with DAZ content in 2 years? Why hasn't DAZ updated C8.5 so it can use the new poses/morphs for Genesis and G2F/M?

Don't drive yourself nuts asking why, you wont ever get an explanation.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/49208/

Hex works just fine on my W8.1 machine. Carrara can model but not near as well as Hex, in my opinion.

Carrara is compatible with Daz figures up to gen 4 and poser figures up to Poser 8.{no you can't work with genesis or G2F/M in the modeling room in C8.5}

That is a question we all want answered, but DAZ has never been good about advertising carrara and why us carraraest have always felt like second class DA$ customers.

Don't think because there is a beta DAZ is actually fixing carrara, it's just an update so it works with DAZ's latest customer leash. And has broken a lot of things.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/49609/

Normal maps are 3D bump maps and only work in the bump channel when you select to use a normal map in it; bump just gives height normal gives angles. Normals are just a color map in any other channel.

You are right too, in French, it's difficult to make the difference.
I don't want to oppose you, but the normal map works well in the glow Channel and also especially in the alpha channel…

But carrara is using it as a color map, not a normal map. In fact the only channel that will except the normal menu choice is the bump map channel. You can put a normal map in any other channel in the shader, but it will be used like any other color map/texture.

A normal map is a 3D bump map, not only does it give height like a bump map, it also gives offset and/or angle.

Let me whip up a demo, right now I'm hacked off because for some odd reason sometimes C8.5 likes to pick out random polys on objects; read as genesis clothes, when you use soft select, making it less then worthless.

a: The normal map made black and white, in the alpha channel.

b: The normal map in the alpha channel. As you can see there is no difference.

c: Gray color channel with a normal map in the bump channel.

d: The noraml map map black and white in the color channel and the normal in the bump.

e: The normal map in the color channel.

f: The normal map in the color channel and the bump channel.

As you can see the normal map only works as a normal map in the bump channel set to normal. Other wise it is just a color map like any other texture.

Thanks for your explanations, I did'nt know the difference between Normal and Color map, in my french version, it's the same word...

Thanks again !

Warning: DAZ content is now including link thumbs in their content that opens your browser and takes you to the DAZ store. Fun, fun, fun.

I am guaranteed against any form of hacking, this one included!

Actually I'm surprised it took this long, I was expecting it to be part of CMS long before now

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/49824/

C8.5 is set to use the old CMS not the new CMS. The C8.5.? beta is specifically to update carrara to the new CMS {as the rest of the so called fixes are for features that aren't broke in C8.5}.

Personally I'd recommend dumping both, they are far more trouble then they are worth. Oh ya, that is right, DAZ did shuve CMS down our throats with C8.5 by making it mandatory to use autofit. So I use Studio to preset my characters which doesn't need CMS to use autofit.

So why is it mandatory for C8.5 users when autofit apparently functions in Studio with out CMS?

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/48404/P45/

I'd love to get Philw up in here and explain this

"I think that DAZ are clearly working on a new version is a good sign, even if the developments are mainly targeted at content compatibility.  If they considered it a dead program, they would not be doing this.  It would be great to have further functional developments - and I agree that fixing the dynamic soft body so that it worked fully as a dynamic cloth simulation would be high on my list.  But DAZ tend to keep such things close to their chests until they are ready, so you are unlikely to get any sort of official response - even if it would be welcomed."

I have seen no evidence that this "beta" is any more then DAZ making sure their latest content leash version works on carraraests. I see nothing to lead me to beleve they are doing anything to fix all the issues with C8.5 and it's compatibility with DAZ genesis, G2 content. There is still damn little G2F/M content; poses mostly, that I can use directly in carrara.

It's my candid opinion the issues with C8.5 are a purposeful attempt to move carraraests to Studio. The way it stands it is piratically a necessity to use Studio to use genesis and especially G2 in C8.5. I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why CMS is mandatory for using autofit in Carrara. Or why no new poses for genesis or G2 work at all in carrara; I didn't want my $30 back i wanted working poses.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/49977/

V4 clothes have DAZ's V4 morphs if they are custom morphs for V4 the clothes wont have them. I'm not sure of the operation but Studio can be used to add custom morphs to the clothes.

You can't effectively convert V4 to genesis, or in other words a triax weight mapped figure. Nothing will fit then.

Autofit only works with genesis and G2; and that is if and only if you install DAZ's content leash.

Poke away only works with genesis and is about the most horrendous way to fix poke through. Sort of like Cinderella's sisters cutting off their toes to try to get their foot in the glass slipper. {read the actual fairy tail not the Disney version}

Carrara has modeling in the assembly room for a reason, a very easy way to fix poke through by just pulling polys; too bad DAZ axed that option for genesis.

I am so freaking bored lol Winter so no yard work to keep me busy, and I am wound to tight to just set a play at my comp all day. {this ain't Colorado lol }

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/50028/

Love to see the camera settings, that looks like a wide angle lens zoomed in.

Stan,
In your precedent post, you speak about modeling in the assembly room…
Sometimes I uses it on characters or on clothing but if they are posed, they return to the zero pose, which is not quite practical.
Is this better in C8.5 ?

You're doing it wrong. When you have the clothes selected, click modeling in the assembly then animation mode, then you can work them in pose; don't waist your time trying with genesis, DAZ decided not to let you. Once in the right mode you will have to create a morph, then tug the pollies out. Works that way in C8. Not sure if I can track down a tutorial right now.

Thanks for the tip, I 'll try that tomorrow.

I don't know Genesis...

As much as I like working with genesis; with the creature morphs it can be any figure I want, DAZ's over the top protection of the figure makes it hard to work in carrara. For the previous 4 generations of figures clothing poke through was a fairly easy fix. But genesis changed that.

Before genesis I used Studio primarily for content repair and figure morphs; the Hex bridge became an essential tool for me. But since genesis; and my obstinance about using DAZ content leashes, Studio has become an invaluable tool for figure presetting; clothing.  Not actually a bad thing, the Hex bridge is right there to fix clothes that autofit mangles; like dresses. But DAZ not letting me use the invaluable tool of modeling in the assembly room, makes fixing posing poke through practically imposable to fix in carrara.

That is why I had to find another way to deal with it, and as such discover how easily it can be fixed using displacement in the shaders. The draw back is it often swallows small details like buttons and zippers.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/50028/

This isn't a bug. Zooming in with a wide angle lens causes this, has since C5. The wide angle lens{50mm} is for vistas, large outdoor scenes. NOT close ups.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/50149/

Please people, if DAZ wanted to retain us carraraests as customers they would fix C8.5 so the new content worked well in it. I let my PC club go and quit shopping at DAZ when my last 6 purchases didn't work in carrara. For me an update that doesn't address the issues introed in C8.5 is proof enough for me DAZ does not want my money, and has no interest in retaining me as a customer.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/50212/

Carrara is not fading in to the sunset, it was burred in the back yard with Hex and Bryce.

People seem to be taking the beta patch as some sign DAZ is working on carrara. No DAZ just updated C8.5 to use with the new CMS build. PERIOD. end of line.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/50275/

Wait till you try a pose on G2F/M. You will get an error message with any/all new poses from DAZ, and your figure will 0. 

It seems the cure all for this is to resave in Studio. I've compared poses and clothing files before and after resaves but have yet to see any difference in them other then one works and one doesn't. The only difference I see is the added .DUF to the thumb; and no changing the thumb name wont do.

 My experience is that old style poser poses work fine in G2F/M, as long as applied to the hip.  I don't every try to apply .duf or other studio files to G2F/M for this reason.

 

This would be more of a problem if I had any Genesis2 pose products, but I only have the one that came free with Victoria 6, and I would never use any of those, far prefer to use my old V4 pose collection, which are all Poser format poses.  I have no idea whether DAZ sells poser format poses for Genesis2 in any of their current pose products, though I would suspect so.  Thought I would mention and hope it helps, Stan 

Actually you can just select the figure and double click the pose. Some times the hands and neck needs a bit of tweakage. Even V3 poses work, but it's aggravating to buy a specific set of poses; like the mad doc/nurse/patience set, and them error out.

That's G2F, V3 pose, no adjustments; no that isn't the lighting, it's the v6 skin, yes I have the V4 uv set for G2F. Spent too much on the V4 elite skins to give them up ;)

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/48629/P135/

Just to be clear I currently I have the latest DS installed but am running 8.5Pro stable build 243 not the new Beta version so my comments relate to this setup.

OK so things are getting clearer - I must have misunderstood when you said [ above bold] “DIM won’t be able to uninstall or update it with one click,”

A couple of questions - 4 actually
1]  All items WITH or WITHOUT meta data will show under the Browser’s “Content” tab ?

Yes, all content will be shown in the content tab.

2]  Is Daz Studio still required to be installed in order for smart content to work? There was talk that this need would be dispensed with. 

No, but you will need Studio for something, it is, after all, a good tool for working content. As in many clothes and poses will error out in carrara, the fix is simple to resave them in studio.

3]  If I filter and DO NOT download DS versions of content am I “missing out on content ” that WILL work with Carrara ?

The Poser formats of genesis/G2F/M content wont work in carrara.

4]  What is your best advice because it seems to me I would have a great many items duplicated. I have never previously worried about getting any of the DS files even before DIM. 

Dump DIM, it is the rube Goldberg way to download and install. I don't use it and have no issues with content ending up in the wrong place, it's no better then any previous DAZ content installer. As in causes more issues then it solves. I'm a hands on sort of guy and have found automatic usually means autoscrewup.

Thanks for your patience and Merry Xmas to All. 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/50312/

have to wonder if cobusp has C8.5. He doesn't mention which version of carrara he is using.

The problem is I have repeatedly, through the years tried to get carraraest to unite to pressure DAZ in to fixing carrara.

What is wrong with it, exactly?

---

In the beginning the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Depends on what you intend to do, work from scratch or use content. You will encounter fewer if an issues working from scratch; although I am not a big fan of modeling in carrara, I'm just used to working with Hexagon.

The issues start when you go to use Poser/DAZ content. As in C8.5 was specifically built to use the latest dolly/Studio format. That would be DUF and the triax weight mapped figures Genesis/G2F/M. The problem starts with the release version having more issues then the last beta build of it, and after 2 years going on 3 no fixes from DAZ; don't get me started on this new beta.

My biggest issues is DAZ's customer content leashes DIM and CMS. And DAZ's attempts to force me to use them. As in in the beta of C8.5 autofit worked fine with out CMS installed, in the release it is mandatory. And DAZ's unwillingness to fix what it brakes.

In C6 we got dynamic hair, fun stuff, worked really good, DAZ borked it in C7; does not work near as well as it did in C6. In C7 we got modeling in the assembly room, a boon especially for fixing poke though; figures coming through clothes. DAZ borked it in C8{in the mil4 figures you have to create a morph to fix the poke through and if the clothes don't have morphs you're SOL}, then decided to disable it altogether with the new figures in C8.5

Not that there aren't ways around these issues, but DAZ seems quite disinclined to fix them so we don't have to use the work arounds.

Borked, a term stolen from the Swedish chief to refer to something not broken but not working as well as it did/could.