I wanted to buy "Bustier Dress V4-A4-G4" by nikisatez but it was "unavailable". I wrote the artist and was told that there was a Genesis version for sale on DAZ. I can't imagine an artist wouldn't want to make money off the old costume. All I can figure is DAZ is pressuring content makers to make their V4 stuff unavailable to force us into Genesis. Has anyone else seen other signs of this?

DAZ strong-arming vendors on a totally different site that they have no influence over to drop V4 and switch to Genesis? 

Now seriously, vendors decide what they want to support. Simply that's the bottom line.

I don't see that being the case at all, as they've been promoting V4 and M4 and a large portion of their Gen4 content pretty heavily since the spring at 80% off. It's allowed me to pick up products for them that I otherwise would never have spent the money on since I didn't absolutely need the stuff. I'm sure it's done the same for many others as well, on top of perhaps a little boost in Gen4 sales at rosity and other stores that still rely heavily on their gen4 content, sales that might otherwise not have been made. 

You might want to ask the vendor why they chose to no longer sell the V4 content. Perhaps they are the one who chose to promote their own Genesis content over their V4 content. Many vendors have moved to supporting Genesis1 and 2 (mostly 2 now) for various reasons of their own. 

 

Quote - All I can figure is DAZ is pressuring content makers to make their V4 stuff unavailable to force us into Genesis. Has anyone else seen other signs of this?

No, certainly never happened to me. In fact, recently they asked me to put my V4 stuff on sale. Its up to the vendors if they make V4 or Genesis, if its good it will go in the store :)

...faith, trust and pixiedust

Without any verifiable facts, you are purely speculating which can be seriously misinterpreted and open to unnecessary and, perhaps, hostile debate.  I'm with Male_M3dia on this one, vendors chose to support whatever model they feel will produce the most revenue.  If you desire the V4 version, try to make special arrangements with the creator and vendor.  

Or no DAZ doesn't really want to support pre DAZ Studio products

It's why Exodus follows Genesis

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

@Jim: If that were true then they could just as easily pull their pre-Genesis figures from the store, which they haven't even done with V3 or V2, and likely never will. In fact if I'm not mistaken, someone said recently that V4 was just updated earlier this year. Not sure on that one though. 

That is true, V4 was quietly updated to correct some minor problems.

Yeah. I'm not saying they're necessarily doing anything nefarious if they are. The artist didn't say why they pulled it and I didn't want to bother them more than I already had. DAZ can make whatever deals they want with whomever they want. I just wanted to know if anyone had seen any other signs like that. If DAZ is actually trying to actively move people out of V4 I want to know about it. That's all.

Allowing the item to continue to be for sale is a "non act". Making it unavailable is an "act". I couldn't think why someone would do that. Thanks for your replies. By the way, sometimes things are put on sale right before they are removed from the store.

Thanks again!

Quote -
Allowing the item to continue to be for sale is a "non act".

Not entirely true. They will still be expected to provide customer support for that item, at least by their customers if not by their brokers, so they sometimes pull items they no longer want to support, especially if it hasn't been selling for a while. Each vendor has their own way of doing things but no one else can decide what a vendor does with their own products. 

 

Good point. I didn't think of that. Thanks.

What I am seeing is some of the hair vendors are making the same product for both Gen and V4 and sold in the same set. Same with some of the character morphs sets (They cover both Gen and V4). Smart move by those vendors as they covers all the bases.

I can also understand vendors getting what is commonly referred to as writers block with V4 when it comes to wearable items. Whereas the Gen character allows either recycling, recycling with additons-improvements or just more freedon since the the wearable content for Gen characters isn't saturated yet.

Since I do exclsuively story illustrations, it is the buildings and prop items that will worry me if the creators step away from poser. Still don't have enough things to create scenes to place V4 in that are made yet. I am the worlds worst modler, so I rely on content.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Half to remember as far as Poser in concerned DAZ is just a vender just like nikisatez .

all DSON really is ,
is a way for the vender DAZ to get there newer meshes in Poser so they can still be a Poser vender.

Does DAZ request ideams sold on there site to have DSON support ?
It seems most there store works with DSON

DAZ still supports Poser & V4 ,Even thou they have DAZ Studio & V6.

DAZ the vender seems to be willing to go to any length to try to keep every one happy.
even to the point of hurting them selfs.

There's a old saying the toughest boss is the public.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Well Daz still has loads of V4 and M4 stuff for sale.  I recently made a purchase from Daz, the first in a couple of years and it may not be my last.  What prompted me was the 80% sale on the V4/M4 Elite Ethnic Faces Bundle and the M4/V4 Creature Creater Bundle.   At $89.90 for the pair at full price I would not have purchased them but at $17.98 I guessed it was not going to get any cheaper. 

This also meant I could then purchase some M4 morphs at Runtime DNA which were also on sale.  I have wanted these for a while but as they needed the M4 Morphs the total cost would have been in the region of $75 now I have purchased them for less that $22 and got the V4 morphs into the bargin.

Now those into conspiracy theories could say that this is because the intent is to stop selling V4 and M4 stuff but many of the massive sales include Genesis stuff as well.

Whatever the reason behind the sales, as it looks as though I will be using V4 and M4 for quite a while to come, I am a happy little bunny at the present moment.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - They will still be expected to provide customer support for that item, at least by their customers  

I buy only V4 content and always let the vendor know how much I appreciate their continued support for Vicky.    

DAZ won't cut off V4, although Roxie's had a fair few goes at it!

Quote - @Jim: If that were true then they could just as easily pull their pre-Genesis figures from the store, which they haven't even done with V3 or V2, and likely never will.

I believe Vicky and Michael 1 and 2 are indeed  gone; at least I can't find them...

 

EDIT:  Victoria 1 is there, but not V2.  No Mike 1 or 2.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

There's a Michael 2 bundle, and an M3 to M2 figure comes with the M3 base for backwards compatibility. Still a bit of content available for M2 as well. 

It's difficult to find these things cause their site is a pain to search, as are most of these stores. 

 

The Michael 2 Bundle does not include Michael 2...

Contains the following products

• Michael 2.0 Texture Maps (high res)
• Millennium Beard
• Michael Clothing Pak 1
• Michael Clothing Pak 2
• Michael 2.0 Morphing Clothing Pak 1 & 2
• Michael Suit Coat Pak
• Michael's Wedge Cut Hairstyle
• Michael's Conforming Long Hair
• Michael 2.0 Character Pak 2

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

Michael2 is Don, i thought.  and V2 - Judy?

i heard, v1 and v2 are the same mesh, but v2 had more morphs.

---

♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

Don and Judy are the native Poser figures from Poser 5.

Quote - Don and Judy are the native Poser figures from Poser 5.

 

yes.

all descends from zygote

---

♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

I don't think DAZ would have such a policy. However, the newest clothes for Genny are often REALLY impressive!

If the product in question was for sale here at Rendo: A lot of people may not know, but if a product does not sell for a certain amount of time, it goes on clearance, and if still doesn't sell, it gets pulled from the store altogether. (I suspect there is a similar policy at other stores.) Therefore, unavailability of a product may have nothing to do with the vendor's choice to begin with.

______________

Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X/MSI MAG570 Tomahawk X570/Zotac Geforce GTX 1650 Super 4GB/32GB OLOy RAM

Software: Windows 10 Professional/Poser Pro 11/Photoshop/Postworkshop 3

I don't ever post on this site so let this be my first and only one.

Let's face it:

I've used Poser since Poser 4. I loved Poser when I could pose my 3d models for drawing references. As time went on, I started giving up on drawing and just doing more 3D art.

 I am currently trying to learn Daz3D because I can clearly see where the market will end up if things continue this way. Daz Studio is going to KILL Poser eventually. Hell Daz3d advertising is better, it's free, more artist make items to support Daz3d than they do Poser now. Poser is becoming a relic. Sure, it started the popularity but TIMES CHANGE and Smith-Micro does NOT seem to understand that.

Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

V4 is only getting support because some vendors REALIZE there is a big market for her still because WE CAN'T USE GENESIS properly unless we use Daz3D. Many TOP artist are not supporting Poser anymore and are only making things for Daz3D.  This is not just about Genesis anymore. Props, scenes, materials...EVERYTHING. And what is Smith-Micro doing:

"We won't conform because we were here first! You should conform to us!"

Smith-Micro isn't trying to make it any easier for us to use Daz3d products either. Instead all the effort appears to come from Daz3D.

Poser will be left in the dust because it will only be a matter of time before V4 just doesn't cut it anymore.

 And this is coming from someone that has known about Poser, loved and used it for longer than many. I enjoyed Poser but I can't ignore that the development team is now ruining it for all of us that would rather use it.

Meh, I think this is more about exclusitivity deals than anything. The dress the OP mentioned was a new product, it had been in the rendo store for no more than a couple of months when it got pulled, along with several other of nikisatez' items, to be released for G2F at Daz. Most likely, the got an exclusitivity deal that made them pull it from Rendo, as to why they didn't release the V4 items at Daz as well, I don't know. Maybe they already had a deal with Rendo that prevented them from moving it over?

This has been happening to several vendors. Mec4D removed several of her items from her own store, to release them exclusively at Daz. She had been working on several outfits for Dawn, but decided to release them for G2F at Daz instead, and she said herself that she will not be allowed to release them for Dawn at a later point, because they are Daz exclusives.

Money talks, simple as that. Daz gives better deals than other sites, and vendors need to make money. I don't blame them, but it does annoy me. shrug

@grimx

 

I have heard the same thing said about Microsoft PCs and Apple for years and guess what, they are both still here. 

Just because something is free does not mean everyone will use it, I happily pay for each upgrade of Poser rather than use Daz Studio, Personal choice.

As to one killing the other, well it is just as likely that something new will appear and kill them both but life is exciting enough without trying to tell the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

@grimx - I mostly agree with you. However I don't see Poser being "killed" by DS any time soon. Too many people are still using various versions of it and will continue to do so long after it's no longer being developed, if that ever happens.

I think what is more probable, based on the way things have been looking lately, is that it will gradually lose its appeal to the majority of content vendors who no longer see it as a sustainable source of income, as the Gen4 figures grow increasingly older and nothing better replaces them that the Poser communities are willing to accept. Most people seem pretty adamant about not wanting to move to any figures that aren't DAZ (which is why I quit developing the figures I was working on as it's mostly a waste of time and energy at this point for anyone to try). Until that mindset changes across the community, nothing else will either. There have been several figures come along in recent years that had a lot of potential and could have been made better had the Poser community as a whole shown more support for them - in terms of buying or at least verbal support and encouragement. But that didn't happen, cause it wasn't from DAZ. Seems to me like a serious case of self-imposed grid-lock. 

Anyway, if y'all want to discuss positive aspects of what might make Poser or its content more appealing that's fine but this thread isn't going to become another Poser vs DAZ argument or I'll just lock it. The OP's question has pretty much been satisfied so most anything else regarding DAZ is just tempting fate. Just throwing that out there as fair warning.

 

I thought they had some real potential with Anastasia and Tyler.

I expected to see more support for her, but instead they threw another figure out there that could have used a couple more months of tweaking before release (imo). so it's back to square one.

wasted potential, (again imo) :glare:

if they could like release tools to allow content artists to
uv-swap/defined-poly-group swap, and not be stuck
with the limitations of the base obj.  
when they couldn't weightmap their own g2 figures,
something about symmetry,
tools to address those base .obj files sounds logical?

make the effort worth the while of the artists, eh?  

seems discouragement is high right naos.

---

♥ My Gallery Albums    ♥   My YT   ♥   Party in the CarrarArtists Forum  ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

Quote - Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

 

NO, no, no.

Smith-Micro realized that it would be foolish decision to tie their product to whatever parts of DAZ Studio that Genesis requires. Doing such a thing would leave them always two steps behind DAZ in introducing new features, and possibly limit their ability to innovate in different areas.

And with DAZ's ability to release a major update to D|S whenever they feel like it, Smith-Micro would either have to follow that with their own (not insignificant, and probably money-requiring) update, or hold off until their next planned Poser version. I don't see Poser users being fond of either option. And either way, Poser would always be lagging behind D|S in implementing features.

DAZ Studio exists because DAZ3D didn't want to tie their fortunes to the fate of Poser, which was rather questionable at the time. Asking Smith-Micro to incorporate the features into Poser necessary for Genesis would be essentially the same thing in reverse.

So why was it acceptable for DAZ3D to be independent of Poser's future but not for Poser to be independent of DAZ Studio's?

Quote - I enjoyed Poser but I can't ignore that the development team is now ruining it for all of us that would rather use it.

As someone who's been using Poser for only about 10 years(longer than some, not as long as others), I think the Poser dev team is doing an wonderful job in improving and expanding on Poser's functionality. I love Poser Pro 2014, and wouldn't consider going back to say, Poser 5.

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

Quote - Anyway, if y'all want to discuss positive aspects of what might make Poser or its content more appealing that's fine but this thread isn't going to become another Poser vs DAZ argument or I'll just lock it. The OP's question has pretty much been satisfied so most anything else regarding DAZ is just tempting fate. Just throwing that out there as fair warning.

SM is making Poser more appealing with every release.  At least to people that want to move beyond Load, Conform, Make Art.  That may not mean much to folks here, but it matters to those of us that are moving beyond NVIATWAS.

I think part of the problem is that people here conflate the 'Rosity community with the Poser community.  If you are moving or want to move past Poser 7, this isn't the place to be.

Another part of the problem is that SM have provided Poser users the tools to make the vendors less relevant.  A lot of people complained about lack of clothing for any figure not named Victoria 4 - SM heard us & provided us tools to address that need.

As a Poser 2014 user, I have access to all figures.  My figures have access to all of the clothing I have purchased.  Well, except for shoes. 

FBX import means I have access to all kinds of well made, quality props (esp furniture) - There is a serious lack of them in the Poserverse.

Combine figures means I can build fully clothed figures for a crowded scene quickly.  Granted, that isn't much use for the Gil Elvgren/Frazetta wanna-bes, but I moved on.

Simply run down the figure tab and look at all of the useful things that have been added over the past couple of versions.

Copy Morphs from means I don't care if clothing has the character morphs I need anymore (and they never do) - I simply delete all of those out & add the FBM I made from a vendor's dial-spin (or a vendor's Z-Brush custom morph) and add it to the clothing. 

No muss, no fuss - Clothing made for a mesh always fits - did I mention it is a WHOLE lot lighter on system resouces?  That matters when I have every seat filled (13 fully clothed characters) on one of my Star Trek Bridges.

The fitting room means I can slide V4 content onto Dawn in less than 30 seconds.  90 seconds or so for other figures.  I have V4 clothing that has never gone on a V4 figure.  I have clothing for V4 that has gone on almost every figure I own (Couragous & Valient Outfits for V4 and M4) - Everybody from Posette to Eroko to Roxie to Apollo Maximus to Tyler & everyone in between.

The morph brush gets major improvements with every release.

The add-on framework means that I get access to all of the brilliance Pret-a-3D (Reality 3), Semidieu (Advanced Figure Randomizer and INJ Builder - easily build & export your INJs), Snarly-Gribbly (EZ-Skin2, EZ-Mat), and Netherworks Studio (Hair Control System, Creators Toybox, Batch Material Convert - to deal with those @@@@@ vendors that build products for Poser 9+ figures using Poser 4 workflows) and even DSON to bring the golum into Poser.  Again, not much use for Poser 7 workflow crowd, but for those of us that want value for our dollar, to paraphrase the Vice-President:  "It's a big fcking deal."*

SM & DAZ have fundamentally different business models.  SM is not, nor have they ever been, dependant on content sales. 

As far as buying content for non-DAZ figures - I can't buy what isn't made.  I haven't bought everything I want for Dawn (or Antonia, or Michelle,) here at 'Rosity (& other storefronts), but I am steadily working through my wishlist.

OTOH, due to the advances in the past couple of versions of Poser, older content has become viable again, also made it's way to my buy list.

As an example, since Billy-T weight mapped TY2, I am using her again - and buying content I didn't already have for her.  TY2 looks fundamentally different than V4 - and I am after variety - not 20 ever so slightly different version of the same V4 figure that the vendors have been cranking out for the past half decade.

The same can be said for other content.  Granted, that doesn't help vendors who are making YAV4HO (Yet Another V4 Hookerware Outfit), but they are the ones who decided to take a "slash & burn farming" mentality for making and selling 3D content.

The best thing about Poser is I have access to a much wider variety of figures and vendors. 

Quote -
The best thing about Poser is I have access to a much wider variety of figures and vendors. 

Which means squat to anyone who only lives for the next dollar they can give to DAZ.

Quote - > Quote - Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

 

NO, no, no.

Smith-Micro realized that it would be foolish decision to tie their product to whatever parts of DAZ Studio that Genesis requires. Doing such a thing would leave them always two steps behind DAZ in introducing new features, and possibly limit their ability to innovate in different areas.

Not correct. The DSON file format (Genesis, Genesis 2 Male, Genesis 2 Female, Dragon 3, etc.) does not require any parts of DAZ Studio to work. It is a plain text file format, which has changed exactly once, when the changes were made that were required to make it work in Poser using the DSON Importer, which was the same time the user facing files (DUF) seperate from the back end files, were introduced.

The best move SM ever made was to NOT include a single line of code for Genesis.

DAZ left Poser compatibility at their own free will and SM can not be held responsible nor hostage by this move.

Every end user can choose what content or application suits them best.

On a side note :
In 1995 Poser was alone. Now in 2014 we have a dozen of apps in the same market, each with its ups and downs in possibilities and content.
Content sites come and go.
Vendors come and go.

And? 
The same content is build over and over again leading to market saturation.
It is too late for new vendors. The "big money" opportunities are gone.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

AFAIK DAZ isn't releasing tools to anything but DS as evidenced by the HD stuff only working in DS

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

 

NO, no, no.

Smith-Micro realized that it would be foolish decision to tie their product to whatever parts of DAZ Studio that Genesis requires. Doing such a thing would leave them always two steps behind DAZ in introducing new features, and possibly limit their ability to innovate in different areas.

Not correct. The DSON file format (Genesis, Genesis 2 Male, Genesis 2 Female, Dragon 3, etc.) does not require any parts of DAZ Studio to work. It is a plain text file format, which has changed exactly once, when the changes were made that were required to make it work in Poser using the DSON Importer, which was the same time the user facing files (DUF) seperate from the back end files, were introduced.

Actually, he's right. In fact, that statement is a pretty good paraphrasing of the statement Steve Cooper released from Poser explaining why they hadn't  gone that route. The DSON importer (as I understand it, because I don't use it or Genesis) is a collaboration between DAZ and SM to allow Poser to get Genesis into Poser and allow it to take advantage of what features it can that Poser does support. So Genesis does work in Poser and still people complain.

Hay now ,no picking on my Gil Elvgren/Frazetta Girls ;)

---

No one ,not even HiveWire3D has ever really challenged DAZ.
DAZ Screams for it the most.
They fight the hardest to rule ,that's why they do rule in the DAZ ,Poser realms.

Anyone can go make characters ,cloths etc etc that's more of a interest then what's in the stores now ,anyone .

Out of all the Art mediums ,Who has the most interesting gallerys ?

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - Hay now ,no picking on my Gil Elvgren/Frazetta Girls ;)

---

No one ,not even HiveWire3D has ever really challenged DAZ.
DAZ Screams for it the most.
They fight the hardest to rule ,that's why they do rule in the DAZ ,Poser realms.

Anyone can go make characters ,cloths etc etc that's more of a interest then what's in the stores now ,anyone .

Out of all the Art mediums ,Who has the most interesting gallerys ?

Hey, I LOVE Gil Elvgren (I have a number of his prints scattered on the walls at my house.) & Frazetta.  It simply isn't what I want to do with 3D.

As far as DAZ, if it isn't 70% off, I am not buying.

Hivewire had (and still has) a shot - if Chris Creek ever decides to move with a sense of purpose.  He isn't in all that much of a hurry to finish up his latest mesh.  And doesn't appear to have any interest in developing ethnic morphs for his meshes - which will certainly limit their potential use.

I don't agree that anyone can make quality products - that takes some skill.  But it certainly isn't as hard as it used to be.

Anyone that has the CGI skills needed .
Could make some killer Game or SubDed ,characters ,cloths etc etc.for DAZ Poser
In the DAZ Poser stores ,Most of what I see is nice but simple & plane,
There's just nothing all that spectacular about it.
I don't care if it's 99.9% off ,if it's duel and borring ,don't bother.

The more wicked cool & spectacular it is .the more I'll pay.

---

lets say we have a wicked cool game character made and it's magnificent.

do we
A : rig ,test and sell at DAZ Poser stores for $10.00 and and have a 50% off sale
and have a lot of but I don't like this or that about it and it don't morph in to everything
and a lot of crying about a lot of nick pick stuff.

or

B:no rigs or testing needed. so less work
sale the mesh at pro sites for $50.00 instead of $5.00 that's $45.00 more
No crying or complaing. they can modifie the mesh anyway they want with there Pro App's.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Quote - AFAIK DAZ isn't releasing tools to anything but DS as evidenced by the HD stuff only working in DS

HD works just fine in Poser.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

 

NO, no, no.

Smith-Micro realized that it would be foolish decision to tie their product to whatever parts of DAZ Studio that Genesis requires. Doing such a thing would leave them always two steps behind DAZ in introducing new features, and possibly limit their ability to innovate in different areas.

Not correct. The DSON file format (Genesis, Genesis 2 Male, Genesis 2 Female, Dragon 3, etc.) does not require any parts of DAZ Studio to work. It is a plain text file format, which has changed exactly once, when the changes were made that were required to make it work in Poser using the DSON Importer, which was the same time the user facing files (DUF) seperate from the back end files, were introduced.

Actually, he's right. In fact, that statement is a pretty good paraphrasing of the statement Steve Cooper released from Poser explaining why they hadn't  gone that route.

No, the statement from Cooper was they would not support the DSON format, which would be like DAZ Studio not supporting the CR2 format, it had nothing to do with DS code in Poser.  No DAZ Studio Code would be needed by SM to support the format. 

The DSON Importer is the way it is because Poser does not support the DSON format. 

Shows what I know (I'm still reluctant to $pend any more Scheckles or shillings)

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

It is my understanding that the DSON Importer converts DAZ's Triax weight mapping to Poser's more generic industry standard weight mapping.  If I am correct than Poser would need to add code to use the DSON format natively.

Quote - It is my understanding that the DSON Importer converts DAZ's Triax weight mapping to Poser's more generic industry standard weight mapping.  If I am correct than Poser would need to add code to use the DSON format natively.

It does not do that. Poser's weightmapping is not Industry Standard, nor was it in Poser before Genesis was released. 

Yes, Poser would need to add code to support the DSON format natively, which is what I said, but it does not need to add DAZ Studio Code or be dependent on DAZ Studio.  

SM's WM approach is not built on an "industry standard" but it is built on the idea of progression from what already existed in traditional rigging (spheres and whatnot).

Unlike DS, which holds two dissimilar systems (traditional versus triaX) but does allow conversion in one direction (traditional to triaX), Poser allows easier hybridization and doing things like using traditional rigged objects on a weight-mapped figure or the other way around and mixing traditional and weighted in the same figure or articulate object.  I find that beneficial in Poser's case, others may have a different opinion on that.

DS supported the cr2 (etc) format because it was initially designed as a Poser alternative.  So without that support, at the time, you'd have a Poser customer base and a competing "clone" without content.  Cr2 was supported out of necessity, don't you think?  The analogy really has nothing to do with two different approaches to weight mapping in two different programs.

By Poser adding the code, it still means SM adopting the DAZ way of doing it, while both have their own systems.  Regarless if it has happened or not, keeping up with TriaX doing this in 4.1 or that in 4.3 or the other in 5.0 still means that there is pressure to keep up with production cycles of a different, competing company.

You could always offer a Poser-native version of your figures (out of the box), but I would guess (and would find it reasonable) that it doesn't really fit into long term plans.  You have goals and a focus.  Same exists on the other side of the coin, I would expect.

.

Quote - SM's WM approach is not built on an "industry standard" but it is built on the idea of progression from what already existed in traditional rigging (spheres and whatnot).

Unlike DS, which holds two dissimilar systems (traditional versus triaX) but does allow conversion in one direction (traditional to triaX), Poser allows easier hybridization and doing things like using traditional rigged objects on a weight-mapped figure or the other way around and mixing traditional and weighted in the same figure or articulate object.  I find that beneficial in Poser's case, others may have a different opinion on that.

DS supported the cr2 (etc) format because it was initially designed as a Poser alternative.  So without that support, at the time, you'd have a Poser customer base and a competing "clone" without content.  Cr2 was supported out of necessity, don't you think?  The analogy really has nothing to do with two different approaches to weight mapping in two different programs.

By Poser adding the code, it still means SM adopting the DAZ way of doing it, while both have their own systems.  Regarless if it has happened or not, keeping up with TriaX doing this in 4.1 or that in 4.3 or the other in 5.0 still means that there is pressure to keep up with production cycles of a different, competing company.

You could always offer a Poser-native version of your figures (out of the box), but I would guess (and would find it reasonable) that it doesn't really fit into long term plans.  You have goals and a focus.  Same exists on the other side of the coin, I would expect.

And yet, unlike the CR2 format, the DSON format has had only one change since Poser 8 was released. The analogy is sound, it is simply how a figure is defined.  Also note that the CR2 format, as it existed in Poser 8, as it existed in Poser 9 and as it exists in Poser 10 is not sufficeint to define Genesis, or Genesis 2. So no, the offering of a Poser Native version of Genesis or Genesis 2 is not possible unless Poser supports DSON.  

Cr2 Format: How so?  It's sufficient enough to translate into a Poser native figure via DSON Importer for Poser (building one on the fly via GUID created assets).

The cr2 format has only been changed to accomodate new settings.  The spec, it itself, hasn't been depreciated and its still backwards compatible because the structure hasn't changed.  There's a difference between adding something within the existing structure and re-writing how the code works.

Just saying... not intending to nitpick.  I support both platforms going down different paths, if that's what each company feels like it needs to do.  There certainly is a bigger picture here.

.

Quote - Cr2 Format: How so?  It's sufficient enough to translate into a Poser native figure via DSON Importer for Poser (building one on the fly via GUID created assets).

The cr2 format has only been changed to accomodate new settings.  The spec, it itself, hasn't been depreciated and its still backwards compatible because the structure hasn't changed.  There's a difference between adding something within the existing structure and re-writing how the code works.

Just saying... not intending to nitpick.  I support both platforms going down different paths, if that's what each company feels like it needs to do.  There certainly is a bigger picture here.

That is not how the DSON Importer for Poser works. You can convert to a CR2, but you lose most of what makes Genesis, Genesis.  So I can load Roxie, or even Allyson 2 in Poser 4 or even Poser 8 and they will work correctly? (And we both know that isn't true.)

That's not what I meant.  The cr2 is altered to accomodate additions to Poser but it is not "re-structured".  You would know that since DSON for Poser uses the customData declaration.

Obviously, if you try to use technology made for Poser 9 in Poser 4 it isn't going to work.  But chances are that something will still load because Poser is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand.  You'll get a Roxie but it's not really going to bend correctly because that tech isn't available in that version.  That was a bit silly, honestly.

If you rig a dress for V4 in Poser Pro 2014, it still works in Poser 4 or whatever, as long as you design using the tech that Poser 4 understands.  Just because the cr2 was made in Pro 2014 is irrelevant.  The only thing that needs to be changed is the version number of the cr2.

However, for example, you decide to put everything on .duf and remove the capability to produce a .dsa (or the number of variants .dsb, dse, whatnot), you've lost those using DS 3.1 (for whatever reason they still might be using it).  Sort of would force you to stay on the current version, wouldn't it? ;)

.

Quote:- Most people seem pretty adamant about not wanting to move to any figures that aren't DAZ (which is why I quit developing the figures I was working on as it's mostly a waste of time and energy at this point for anyone to try).

I thought your male figure was looking great and I was getting quite excited.  What people want is a figure that is better than DAZ figures. If you look at the promos for the new indie figures compared to daz figures that came out in the last few years, I think not many of the pictures look all that good by comparison, and promos are people doing presumably their best work.

People had high hopes for dawn but her bending seemed more like vickie 3 than 4 and her chin looked big in many promos and the corners of her mouth seemed to be longer than looks good for nonsmiling people, and turn up slightly at the ends, in many of the promos - well at least that is what I noticed.

I have seen a couple of renders of dawn that looked amazing, but I would need to be able to see a lot more to be convinced.

so anyway I think it is the quality of the figure (that happy number of polygons, the bending, the look of the figure, and the versitility) and it's support that make the difference, and I suspect a really good figure would get more support.

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

what was the new change to V4 and when did it happen.  What about my old characters I already made for V4?

Love esther

MY ONLINE COMIC IS NOW LIVE

I aim to update it about once a month.  Oh, and it's free!

Quote - That's not what I meant.  The cr2 is altered to accomodate additions to Poser but it is not "re-structured".  You would know that since DSON for Poser uses the customData declaration.

Obviously, if you try to use technology made for Poser 9 in Poser 4 it isn't going to work.  But chances are that something will still load because Poser is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand.  You'll get a Roxie but it's not really going to bend correctly because that tech isn't available in that version.  That was a bit silly, honestly.

If you rig a dress for V4 in Poser Pro 2014, it still works in Poser 4 or whatever, as long as you design using the tech that Poser 4 understands.  Just because the cr2 was made in Pro 2014 is irrelevant.  The only thing that needs to be changed is the version number of the cr2.

However, for example, you decide to put everything on .duf and remove the capability to produce a .dsa (or the number of variants .dsb, dse, whatnot), you've lost those using DS 3.1 (for whatever reason they still might be using it).  Sort of would force you to stay on the current version, wouldn't it? ;)

The .dsa, .dsb, .dse and the deprecated .ds are scripts, like .py in Poser. Are trying to claim that Poser Python hasn't changed? (We both know that isn't true either.) This is not equivalent to DUF or CR2/pz2/pp2 etc.  I notice that you failed to address the rest, that the Poser CR2, as it exists can not express Genesis and still have it be Genesis. For example, while Poser implemented Open Sub-D, in Poser 2014, they did not implement the entire spec, specifically edge weighting. So while you can now use Sub-D in Poser you couldn't before 2014 and you still can't use edge weighting without the DSON Importer for Poser. IIRC Poser does not handle multiple UV sets per object, or followers without issues when the base has animatable centers and end points or a number of other things.

 

To be fair though, I doubt without the DSON for Poser importer, Poser could handle HD Morphs, if SM had implemented the DSON spec. :) So from a customer standpoint, DSON Importer for Poser is a better way in that respect. 

 

Well, instead ask SM  for add  "Genesis" support to Poser, I think the right way is ask DAZ3d make a "Poser weight mapping " version of their figures.

I think it never happens because the thing DAZ3d wants is own the "Figure" and the software market at the same time.

---

adh3d website

I am not trying to claim anything of the sort, but now that's getting into a new subject.  Python, as implemented in Poser is optional.  It is a separated component.  Poser has a core that is different from the python core and they have to provide methods by which Poser's python can communicate with Poser.

The entirety of DS, to the best of my knowledge is built upon a modification of Trolltech's QTScripting, so .ds, .dsa and upwards exists as fragments of the DAZ Studio core.  At one time I was doing some scripting for DS (3.1) and it seemed to be the case but feel free to make a correction here.

A cr2 and a py are totally different animals that live within the same Poser ecosystem but do different things.  Yes, you can call a .py from a cr2 or load a cr2 with a py but they still exist, as they are, differently.

Versions of python change according to python dll used by Poser not by the version of Poser.  Poser 9/10 same python core.  Poser 7/8 same core (but differences in optional modules are included, such as wxPython).  What criteria SM uses to raise the python core, I don't really know.

I didn't know that the rest was something I needed to address.  I was starting to kind of pull off from continuing to engage because this is feeling like more of a squabble rather than something constructive.  And while I have no problem with engaging, I feel that maybe I'm wearing out Shane's patience and it's time to just give this discussion a rest.  It comes up frequently too, perhaps monthly, same rhetoric from both sides, same folks being polarized (but all of us having a stake in whatever we are involved with, and honestly, I think that's understandable).

I agree with you that the entire Sub-D spec was not implemented.  I have been a Poser user and builder for almost 15 years, I've been scripting for many years.  I am a beta tester, enthusiast and ambassador.  By that, I mean that "I have a watch and I know what time it is".  However, what I like to do when I design my own things is look for solutions.

There are always several ways to solve something.  There are things that Poser is missing and I don't think that I've obscured (at any time, anywhere) those but the question that I weigh in is "how necessary are those things?".  You might feel that they are vital to have a complete experience.  I might feel that they are trivial because there are different key points that I feel are required to have a reasonable, well-working figure for Poser.

Also, I think of: "Do the hurdles we have to cross by implementing a solution worth the shortcomings that come with that solution?".  Again, we might feel very differently on what that answer is.

BTW, I have not had a similar experience of "issues" when using moving centers and end points, in terms of clothing not acting properly when the core figure that clothing is conformed to, has this feature.  Not something I'm writing about in theory, I have working example, which I cannot show and I have to honestly play an NDA card on (not a tease, I would need time to provide an example that I can post somewhere).  However, that may very well be something that doesn't work as well in Poser 9 versus Poser 10 - I'm usually on the latest version so it's not something I can verify.

Again, I want to indicate that I have no issue with the road that DAZ is taking and the one that SM is taking and if they are different roads, then they are different roads.  I think I understand that each wants to be in control of it's own tech and own destiny.  I'm not really DS-hostile at all, I'm just pro-Poser.  And I have hardcore DSer friends and I enjoy seeing their renders, it's not a issue for me.  Maybe that makes me an odd fellow. :)

P.S.: Some editing for clarity.

.

Quote - Again, I want to indicate that I have no issue with the road that DAZ is taking and the one that SM is taking and if they are different roads, then they are different roads.  I think I understand that each wants to be in control of it's own tech and own destiny.  I'm not really DS-hostile at all, I'm just pro-Poser.  And I have hardcore DSer friends and I enjoy seeing their renders, it's not a issue for me.  Maybe that makes me an odd fellow. :)

P.S.: Some editing for clarity.

 

I don't think that makes you odd and I have a sneaking feeling that is the way most Poser and DS users feel.  There are people on both sides that take the view that is should be done this way or else the company that doesn't is lost.  I can't prove it but I suspect they are the minority but more vocal, all the others users just carry on creating their art using whatever programs they prefer.

The only thing that maks your position different, not odd, is that where you see something missing, or something you feel could be implemented better you create a utilty or add on to make life easier.  This puts you in a position to explain the situation from a facutal basis with an aknowledge leaning to Poser at present.

I find that not only imformative but also a refreashing change from the Daz and SM bashing that seems to be the norm.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - Well, instead ask SM  for add  "Genesis" support to Poser, I think the right way is ask DAZ3d make a "Poser weight mapping " version of their figures.

I think it never happens because the thing DAZ3d wants is own the "Figure" and the software market at the same time.

As I already said, the Poser skinning, and current capabilities of the software are not capable of supporting Genesis/Genesis 2 and have it still be Genesis/Genesis 2.  That does not make Poser bad, or broken, and that is not, at all, what I am saying.

Unless Poser adds capabilities to support the features of Genesis, and if they do that they might as well support the format, then it can't work natively in Poser. 

Over two years now, are we really still complaining that SM should add Genesis capabiltiy.  It is not going to happen and at some point we are going to have to face facts.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - Over two years now, are we really still complaining that SM should add Genesis capabiltiy.  It is not going to happen and at some point we are going to have to face facts.

4 keys issues that I see

1.) Reluctant to learn new software and or loose the Poser material room and Poser dynamic cloth (key factors for me, YMMV)

2.) Reluctant to set aside the heavy investment in time and mainly money in the V4M4 line of characters. ($$$ is the main factor for me)

3.) When G2 characters came out as an example and others since then, if there was a Gee Whiz product for them, you could refit the clothes or the hair with 3rd party tools to the Daz 4 series characters. Now with the Gen 1 and 2 products you can't do that (yet and might never be able to) but see something you want for a render and gripe about the fact that you feel like you are stuck in the past and missing out on the new toys.

4.) You could buy anything and use it (unless it was for Bryce or Carrera). You felt like you were in the majority and now feel like you are in the minority.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"

Actually, while I do not mind learning new skills or tools learning to use Genesis is not one of them.  If using Poser as it stands is living in the past I have no issue with that either.  The fact that Daz and SM have taken a different approach does not bother me in the least. 

I just cannot understand why, this far down the road, people are still loooking for SM to change.  The spilt has happened you can live with it or keep moaning but I cannot see anything changing to go back to where we were.

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - > Quote - Well, instead ask SM  for add  "Genesis" support to Poser, I think the right way is ask DAZ3d make a "Poser weight mapping " version of their figures.

I think it never happens because the thing DAZ3d wants is own the "Figure" and the software market at the same time.

As I already said, the Poser skinning, and current capabilities of the software are not capable of supporting Genesis/Genesis 2 and have it still be Genesis/Genesis 2.  That does not make Poser bad, or broken, and that is not, at all, what I am saying.

Unless Poser adds capabilities to support the features of Genesis, and if they do that they might as well support the format, then it can't work natively in Poser. 

 

If daz3d wanted, they can make a Poser "genesis version" adapted to poser software, different from the genesis we have now, but almost the same.

 

The problem here, and I don't undestand why  there are people who still ignore this fact, is that Daz3d don't want Poser exist now , they want to have the control of the figures but they want to have the control over the software to use them  too.

This is the reason of the "genesis way" they take some time ago, and this is the reason why they don't make a Poser genesis.

A good way, well there are different opinions, but that is their choice, and it is a logical decision, why make figures for other company when you  can make figures only for your own software, so you have the entire cake.

 There is only a problem with that, there are people love Daz3d figures, but some people love Poser more.

---

adh3d website

Quote - If daz3d wanted, they can make a Poser "genesis version" adapted to poser software, different from the genesis we have now, but almost the same.

The problem here, and I don't undestand why there are people who still ignore this fact, is that Daz3d don't want Poser exist now , they want to have the control of the figures but they want to have the control over the software to use them too.

This is the reason of the "genesis way" they take some time ago, and this is the reason why they don't make a Poser genesis.

A good way, well there are different opinions, but that is their choice, and it is a logical decision, why make figures for other company when you can make figures only for your own software, so you have the entire cake.

There is only a problem with that, there are people love Daz3d figures, but some people love Poser more.

Actually I think you really need to understand what genesis does and how it works before you can say what can created in poser, because you are really off base. This issue that most people have is assuming that genesis is just a figure you simply pop into a scene and render.

Once you understand that you can't just convert it into a CR2 and it will be equivalent and that vendors simply will not create their products twice for a return of one (ala Dawn) then you will understand that creating two products that won't do the same thing is not an option. Things such as the multiple UVs, the differences in the implementation of the Pixar subdivision, differences in weight mapping, scaling, and the need of vendors to standardize on one format are some of the reasons that a Poser native figure from DAZ won't happen.

Despite what you think, DAZ has tried to make things work in both apps when poser hasn't, such as using ExP tech to add morph channels to the Gen4 characters that worked in both apps when PMDs were only designed for poser. The DSON importer is a pretty complicated work to get as much genesis functionality in Poser as possible.

But this is really beating the dead horse, but as time goes on, the gap between the figure tech will widen. Both companies have their different focuses, so what you ultimately want you use will depend on what each company offers. So it will be unrealistic to expect another company will make something specifically for you that doesn't have all the features that makes the figure what it is. You may have to pressure your software of choice to focus effort on a figure that does what you want it to do or threaten to withhold upgrading to get what you want. DAZ shouldn't always be the solution to your figure issues.

The things I write that never make it to the forum...

And THAT is why V4 will still be with us in 20 - 30 years to come.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!

"But this is really beating the dead horse, but as time goes on, the gap between the figure tech will widen".

Now there is something users, whether they use Daz, Poser or both, should be able to agree on.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - "But this is really beating the dead horse, but as time goes on, the gap between the figure tech will widen".

Now there is something users, whether they use Daz, Poser or both, should be able to agree on.

I disagree. For some reason, people just assume that Poser will remain passive and just stay stuck on V4 level technology  from here on out. That's not to say that Poser won't come up with something or commission some third party to come up with a figure that will actually take advantage of the Poser technology already present. That's also not to say that DAZ itself won't come up with another figure that will take advantage of Poser's technology again.

Quote - > Quote - "But this is really beating the dead horse, but as time goes on, the gap between the figure tech will widen".

Now there is something users, whether they use Daz, Poser or both, should be able to agree on.

I disagree. For some reason, people just assume that Poser will remain passive and just stay stuck on V4 level technology  from here on out. That's not to say that Poser won't come up with something or commission some third party to come up with a figure that will actually take advantage of the Poser technology already present. That's also not to say that DAZ itself won't come up with another figure that will take advantage of Poser's technology again.

 

I think you read more into my post than I intended.  I did not mean that Poser would remain passive, far from it.  However I do not think as they progress that they will go the way of Genesis.  Although anything is possible, having made the break, I do not see Daz coming back towards Poser.  That being the case I expect both to progress but I also expect the tech between Daz and Poser to widen, not narrow.  That is my own personal opinion of course and I have no magic ball looking into the future.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Well, instead ask SM  for add  "Genesis" support to Poser, I think the right way is ask DAZ3d make a "Poser weight mapping " version of their figures.

I think it never happens because the thing DAZ3d wants is own the "Figure" and the software market at the same time.

As I already said, the Poser skinning, and current capabilities of the software are not capable of supporting Genesis/Genesis 2 and have it still be Genesis/Genesis 2.  That does not make Poser bad, or broken, and that is not, at all, what I am saying.

Unless Poser adds capabilities to support the features of Genesis, and if they do that they might as well support the format, then it can't work natively in Poser. 

 

If daz3d wanted, they can make a Poser "genesis version" adapted to poser software, different from the genesis we have now, but almost the same.

No they can't. Poser does not have the functionality for it to work.   

Quote - The problem here, and I don't undestand why  there are people who still ignore this fact, is that Daz3d don't want Poser exist now , they want to have the control of the figures but they want to have the control over the software to use them  too. This is the reason of the "genesis way" they take some time ago, and this is the reason why they don't make a Poser genesis.

   

Smith Micro is a Software Company, they make software as their source of revenue. DAZ 3D is a content company, they make and sell content as a way to make money. The more software packages that can use DAZ 3D content the bigger the market and the more, potentially, money they can make.

 

If what you are saying is true, then DAZ 3D never would have built the DSON Importer for Poser. 

 

Well, I think it is not difficult to undestand that when I say make a "poser genesis version" I am not talking about take the actual genesis and put it in Poser. (I know more or less how Genesis works), the thing I mean is that, if daz3d  wanted, they had made a new Poser figure, adapted to Poser, with more or less functions than Genesis, but a Poser figure, call it Poser genesis, call it Poser V5 or whatever.

Or just, as they do in the past, wait till Poser take a way in Wheight mapping thing  and make their figures (genesis) and their software adapted to that rigging system.

The question is, why didn't they do?, why wasting the Poser user base that love daz3d figures but love Poser too, just simple, their plans was atract that Poser user base to Daz Studio with Genesis, and take the entire control over "poser" market.

 

Did they do it?, I think the answer is DSON, or easier, no.

DSON was a bungler attempt to try to solve the problem they created in their own bussines.

And now we have the "Poser world bussines" divided as never it was, and I think Daz3d didn't measure well  the impact of their decisions when they take the "genesis" way, but well, it is just my opinion.

 

 

 

Note:bhoins Daz3d was a content company in the past, now they are an content and a software company, just take a look to their website

 They are not making content for other software today, they are making content for their own software, and Dson is only a trying to solve a lost of clients because the "genesis" way.

 

 

 

---

adh3d website

Quote - Well, I think it is not difficult to undestand that when I say make a "poser genesis version" I am not talking about take the actual genesis and put it in Poser. (I know more or less how Genesis works), the thing I mean is that, if daz3d  wanted, they had made a new Poser figure, adapted to Poser, with more or less functions than Genesis, but a Poser figure, call it Poser genesis, call it Poser V5 or whatever.

 Genesis is not a figure it is a system, so less it is.  > Quote - Or just, as they do in the past, wait till Poser take a way in Wheight mapping thing  and make their figures (genesis) and their software adapted to that rigging system. The question is, why didn't they do?, why wasting the Poser user base that love daz3d figures but love Poser too, just simple, their plans was atract that Poser user base to Daz Studio with Genesis, and take the entire control over "poser" market.

Poser did not include Weight Mapping until after Genesis was released. Customers have been asking for Poser to include weight mapping since before 2005, when I started with my 3D Hobby, and long before I turned it into a career, yet it didn't happen until Genesis came out. Granted, in all likelyhood Poser was working on weight mapping before Genesis was released, but Genesis did not suddenly spring into existence either.

As an example of going that route, Michael 4's shoulders were much better before release than after, they were downgraded because of Poser compatibility. Freak 4 didn't work in Poser and couldn't be made to work in Poser until after it was released and Poser fixed some bugs in response to that release. 

Customers want better figures, not the same technology, and definitely not broken figures. 

 

Quote - Did they do it?, I think the answer is DSON, or easier, no. DSON was a bungler attempt to try to solve the problem they created in their own bussines.

Bungler attempt? Or answer to customer requests after Smith Micro refused to listen?  > Quote - Note:bhoins Daz3d was a content company in the past, now they are an content and a software company, just take a look to their website  They are not making content for other software today, they are making content for their own software, and Dson is only a trying to solve a lost of clients because the "genesis" way.

It is an opinion and you are entitled to your opinion, it isn't a valid one. DAZ is a content company, that is where their money is. Yes, they do software work, but that is not where their money is. 

DAZ3d is a content company that make content for only its application ,DAZ studio, so for me, today, it is not only a content company.

A company that sells Bryce, Carrara, DAz studio, hexagon... it is a software company, and this is not a bad thing, but it is the real thing.

 

About DSON, really you are saying that a software company has to change its own application because one of its competitors make a figure that is not compatible with their software, really?, that would mean than SM would be indirectly controlled by DAZ3d

About DSON is or not a Bungler attempt, well just use it  and tell me.

Dson is a customer answer, but not becase SM refused to listen, but because DAZ3d notice that their decision to put aside Poser with genesis, would not have control of the entire market, as they surely wanted,  but rather lose part of it, the part of Poser user that want and love use Poser and didn't want to use DAz studio.

 

Anyway, I want to make clear that I am not against Daz Studio or Poser, Genesis or Poser figures, I have my own preferences, but in my opinion, people must use they want to use, there is several options, just choose what you want and enjoy it.

---

adh3d website

Quote -
Anyway, if y'all want to discuss positive aspects of what might make Poser or its content more appealing that's fine but this thread isn't going to become another Poser vs DAZ argument or I'll just lock it. The OP's question has pretty much been satisfied so most anything else regarding DAZ is just tempting fate. Just throwing that out there as fair warning

lol I see we are there once again.

Hey guys, you're heading toward a locked thread with the Genesis talk. Got anything else to add, take it to sitemail.

Quote - DAZ3d is a content company that make content for only its application ,DAZ studio, so for me, today, it is not onlya content company. A company that sells Bryce, Carrara, DAz studio, hexagon... it is a software company, and this is not a bad thing, but it is the real thing.

I did not say they don't sell software, technically Content is software, non-content Software is not their primary source of revenue, after all DAZ Studio costs how much? Are you sure it is only for DAZ Studio? Not Poser, not Carrara, not 3DS MAX, not Maya, not Lightwave, not C4D, not Vue, etc.

Quote - About DSON, really you are saying that a software company has to change its own application because one of its competitors make a figure that is not compatible with their software, really?, that would mean than SM would be indirectly controlled by DAZ3d

No it means it is answering to its customers' (to include yours) desires. If being able to use DAZ 3D Figures means that Poser is controlled by DAZ 3D then they have been controlled by DAZ3D since Poser 4, so much so that Poser 5 had Victoria and Michael on the box. As for SM changing its software to support a DAZ 3D release, they have done it many times before. > Quote - About DSON is or not a Bungler attempt, well just use it  and tell me.

I have done much more than just use it.  > Quote - Dson is a customer answer, but not becase SM refused to listen, but because DAZ3d notice that their decision to put aside Poser with genesis, would not have control of the entire market, as they surely wanted,  but rather lose part of it, the part of Poser user that want and love use Poser and didn't want to use DAz studio.

You are stating a poorly formed personal opinion as fact, and you are not even close to correct. 

 

 

Seriously... you're going to get this thread locked.