I just looked over the stuff I put in the freestuff section and out of curiosity, I ran some numbers.

I have 18 items in there. These go all the way back to August of 2012, so approximately 25 months.

Counted all together, there are only 7,172 downloads of my free things. Not a lot compared to those guys who make V4 things, but substantial when you look at the overall picture. This is an average of 398.4 downloads per item, which if broken down by month is only 15.9 downloads. By day it's sadder: .53. These are not true figures, because some items have as many as 889 downloads, while others are just getting started at only 88. And it's a safe bet that if I was selling these things, the price would not be the same across the board (probably close, though, from what I've seen).

Just these numbers alone tell me why I personally don't want to be a vendor. I don't want to have to figure out what will sell and what won't. I don't want to have to make something I personally don't like just to stay competative. With freebies I make what I want when I want. There are no expectations. I don't have to sell my soul as it were to make a profit, because I am not making money off these things. In other words, I don't have to spend money to make money. I don't own anything that didn't come in Poser (unless it was released free, like Dawn, et al), and I don't have to buy it to support it (like the above mentioned V4, or all the new G-things). So it's a win/win for me. I can still be creative when I want to be, and while I am not having downloads that rival the big dogs on here, at least in my mind, I am justified and satisfied.

Thanks for listening to my mini-rant!

Ha, I had the same reflection for my Roxie outfits.

I buy a lot and check for new items almost daily

I only search the freebies for specific items to fill a scene and don't normally check it for new items

Could explain why nothing sells :biggrin: in the freebie section if others do the same.

It seems the hot items in there (the items that are downloaded in the thousands) are poses and morphs for V/M 4...

I keep track of the downloads of my freebies. I'm getting anywhere from .43 to 30.98 downloads perweek. Of my top 3 downloads only one is for Vicky. One is for Miki and one is a prop. Typically I only make what I like too or more often, what I need and then just share it. I have one thing that I made that I don't like uploaded. I had been making something else and posted it as an example and a number of people liked it so I uploaded it as is was and then made what I wanted. Sad thing is it's doing quite well.

It's funny that my number one freebie is the massage table I made. I also made a portable massage chair, but it doesn't get downloaded as much. The number 2 item is that custom chopper I made. I haven't really been tracking the progess of my freebies. I only watch them for a couple days, and once I see that they are being downloaded, I pretty much leave it at that.

I have yet to take one down because it didn't get a single hit, so that's saying something.

My lone freebie is Inverse Kinematics for Genesis 1 & 2 in Poser over at ShareCG, which has been downloaded 447 times in about 2 years....

maybe the sheer quantity of content is the problem ??

far more peeps modeling then say a couple of years ago

then as theres more peeps making models (some are frankly aweful)

but free stuff gets a bad rep and only your personal rep gets past that

[not knocking your rep lol just a top vender with a freebie seems to get a lot of mmm]

any chance of a link to your bike??(if its allowed lol )

just seen a old(old )trike come up in another forum [I couldnt use it back then it killed my comp lol )

so be interested in yours [an my search-fu is 'orible] rokket and bike will get me in a fight with emporer ming ;-)

Attached Link: Rokket's Chopper

Here is a link to my chopper. Keep in mind that it is very poly heavy. I was fairly new at modeling and I went way overboard with things. I didn't understand topology or anything else back then..

Rokket, I don't know if you are looking for advice but I'd use a shot that was closer in for your bike.  Much closer in.  There is a bike, that's obvious.  But it's so far back you don't see any of the details.

Freebie or not, people want to see what they are getting.

If you are concerned folks will be put off by the polycount, just change the description and be honest about it.  :)

I actually haven't released any freebies for awhile since I went the vendor route with CP. I'm definitely not getting rich off of that decision either. Here's the thing though... If I were selling, even at the rate that my current freebies have slowed to, I'd still be doing three to four times better than I am now, selling at CP.

Plus, I did spread myself around a little. I have my freebies here, and on Share CG and my for sell items at CP.

Quote - Rokket, I don't know if you are looking for advice but I'd use a shot that was closer in for your bike.  Much closer in.  There is a bike, that's obvious.  But it's so far back you don't see any of the details.

Freebie or not, people want to see what they are getting.

If you are concerned folks will be put off by the polycount, just change the description and be honest about it.  :)

If you read the description, I do tell people it's a high poly model. I am not concerned about that particular model, like I said, it's #2 in downloads among my stuff.

I am not even overly concerned about my own freebies not being downloaded. I started this thread because I noticed the trend in the market, that is all...

As I stated earlier, this isn't a complaint, only an observation. I really don't care if my stuff doesn't get downloaded. I made those things for myself and then decided to share. If no one wants them, so be it. They are there if someone does...

Quote - I actually haven't released any freebies for awhile since I went the vendor route with CP. I'm definitely not getting rich off of that decision either. Here's the thing though... If I were selling, even at the rate that my current freebies have slowed to, I'd still be doing three to four times better than I am now, selling at CP.

Plus, I did spread myself around a little. I have my freebies here, and on Share CG and my for sell items at CP.

Yeah, it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier about a niche market. If you create for that, you will do well. It's the reason I didn't become a vendor, which I also stated earlier...

Cut and pasted from my custom chopper description:

"A highly detailed (meaning high polygon count) model that works great for close up shots. Best when rendered with BB's Envirosphere, there are a lot of shiny bits and pieces on this bike. I scaled it to fit most Poser characters, however, I didn't include any poses, so you're on your own for that. Just unzip and place in your runtime. This is only a static prop; a rigged figure is forthcoming. Enjoy!BTW, tested in Poser 9 only."

So I do tell people it's a high poly model. One day I may go back and rework it. I will go for a more standard design and something more life-like. And a much lower poly count. Although I have been looking at some of the vehicles that come with Poser, and they make my chopper look like a primative in comparison...

thanks for the link will have a play with that! but agree with what was said here! your promo pic needs work, am sure the instant visuals you get while browsing (dont matter if its free or not) play a big part in how many d/l's you get

@EClark how is life as a vendor?? (not a micky take) just you wanted to be one and posted about it so I sorta watched you [NO I dont work for the IRS rofl] is it worth it ?? can you "make a living" ? happy to eat beans on toast here an there but like steak too much to give up the day job

Quote - thanks for the link will have a play with that! but agree with what was said here! your promo pic needs work, am sure the instant visuals you get while browsing (dont matter if its free or not) play a big part in how many d/l's you get

 

@EClark how is life as a vendor?? (not a micky take) just you wanted to be one and posted about it so I sorta watched you [NO I dont work for the IRS rofl] is it worth it ?? can you "make a living" ? happy to eat beans on toast here an there but like steak too much to give up the day job

I'm selling a few items here and there. Of course, I was never in it for the money, or I might have picked a different figure, and/or a different store. And to be frank, if I was going to be in it for the money, I'd probably be doing more sets and environments like Stonemason and Dreamland.

so more or less how I thought life as a vendor would be ;-) (thanks for your honestry)

squid here a sprat there , buy the latest vickie lol but a big ribeye would break the budget

damnit guess retiring at the mo' aint a good idea

There is a big drawback with being a vendor online. There is no where to advertise what you have to sell. CP doesn't have it's own forum, and other stores don't really allow you to talk about what you have for sale at other stores, so there's no way to really let people know what you have if the stores won't push you. And most of the time, they only push their big vendors.

@heddheld: I would redo the promo pic, but I didn't keep the model in my runtime. I would have to download it again and then do a render.

In fact, I don't keep 99% of what I model. Once I get done with it, I usually delete it. Uploading them as freebies are the only record I keep of my work.

Seems to be a fairly general phenomenon.  I noticed it first when I was teaching back in the '80s, and then noticed it strongly with Poser stuff.   Every time I felt proud of my carefully planned lecture or lab exercise, the students were lost.  When I was hung over and sloppy, pretty much phoning it in, the students learned solidly. 

With Poser stuff, the items that I deeply enjoyed making ... the times when I stepped into the little world and lived there for a while ... got very few downloads and very little positive response.  The quick "tossoffs" or reworks of earlier stuff got plenty of positive response.

It's frustrating from that viewpoint, but it makes sense if you think of total pleasure as a constant.

Intrinsic pleaure + Extrinsic pleasure = Constant.

More intrinsic ---> less extrinsic and vice versa.

And I am not in this for the numbers game. If I was, I would be putting out A LOT more stuff.

On the other hand, I did go back and download my own chopper. It's been up there for months and NOBODY ever told me there was a missing texture file... I am going to repackage it and put it back up there with the fix.

How is this for a promo render?????

DAZ has built a empire being a Vender.
So can anyone else.
There's a lot of $$$ out there to make as a Vender.

     For me, the puny amount of sales would not be worth the extra IRS income reporting obligation.  Then there is the discrepancy between what Poser users want -based on what sells- versus my own interests.  I'm willing to put time into creations which interest me, but not to cater to the market.    If someone else happens to also like my stuff, they can use it - I'll share.

     I'm embarassed occasionally by someone wanting my early stuff.  On reworking early models, for me that is as much work as a new project.  But sometimes I think it is worth it.  TinkerBell's Drive-In Cafe' is now in process of a third rebuild.  More efficient polygon use, better UV mapping, better materials, and now with IDL emitters and glow aurae! :D

P7/Poser Pro version;  note the brownstone rowhouse and the speed shop...

.

     Here's the P7/PPro Palace theatre and a bit of the synagogue, with brownstone rowhouse in the background...

.

     For P8/PPro2010, I added IDL lighting (but the models "leaked" light)...

[ ![P8 brownstone](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/BrownstonenTaxpayerIDLtest3rtb.jpg~original "P8 brownstone")](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/BrownstonenTaxpayerIDLtest3rtb.jpg~original "P8 brownstone").

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     Here's the 2014 versions of the "taxpayer" commercial/residential building and the brownstone rowhouse...

[ ![taxpayer P10](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/taxpayertest19_1200x750.jpg~original "taxpayer P10")](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/taxpayertest19_1200x750.jpg~original "taxpayer P9 P10").   [ ![brownstone P9 P10](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/Brownstone2014test14_1200x750.jpg~original "brownstone P9 P10")](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/Brownstone2014test14_1200x750.jpg~original "brownstone P9 P10").

2014 speed shop and cafe signs...

[ ![2014 speed shop + signs](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/speedshopandsigns1200x750.jpg~original "2014 speed shop + signs")](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/speedshopandsigns1200x750.jpg~original "2014 speed shop and signs").   [ ![2014 speed shop](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/LostBoysspeedshop1200x750.jpg~original "2014 speed shop")](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/LostBoysspeedshop1200x750.jpg~original "2014 speed shop").

2014 synagogue, Palace Theatre, and bauhaus apartments...

[ ![2014 synagogue](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/synagoguetest01_1200x750.jpg~original "2014 synagogue")](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/synagoguetest01_1200x750.jpg~original "2014 synagogue").   [ ![2014 theatre](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/PalaceTheatre2014-IDLtest1200x750.jpg~original "2014 theatre")](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/PalaceTheatre2014-IDLtest1200x750.jpg~original "2014 theatre").   [ ![2014 bauhaus](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/bauhaustest26_1200x750.jpg~original "2014 bauhaus")](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/seachnasaigh/miscellaneous/bauhaustest26_1200x750.jpg~original "2014 bauhaus").

Those are very cool! Thank you for some of your props, my Poser mages are quite pleased!

As the old Virginia Slims advertisements used to say: "you've come a long way, baby!"

Quote -      I'm embarassed occasionally by someone wanting my early stuff.  On reworking early models, for me that is as much work as a new project.  But sometimes I think it is worth it.  TinkerBell's Drive-In Cafe' is now in process of a third rebuild.  More efficient polygon use, better UV mapping, better materials, and now with IDL emitters and glow aurae! :D

When I first got into Poser, it was my intention to use it as a storyboard for a screen play I had written.  And I did, but I was using the figures in Poser 2 and they did what i wanted. After awhile though, I thought I could do better and around Poser 6 and and 7,  I re-did the  storyboard. Compared to the second one, the first looked like some a third grader might try. I wonder what would happen now if I tried to do it again? This time I could make stuff I had to work around the first time because i didn't have it and couldn't find it.

Quote - There is a big drawback with being a vendor online. There is no where to advertise what you have to sell. CP doesn't have it's own forum, and other stores don't really allow you to talk about what you have for sale at other stores, so there's no way to really let people know what you have if the stores won't push you. And most of the time, they only push their big vendors.

Sure there are, you just have to be creative with it and aim to stand out from the crowds, and build for the figures that people actually want to use. If you're just approaching it as a past-time hobby, or only building for one figure that most people don't have an interest in, then no, you're not going to make much money. 

Freebies have a reputation for not being allowed to be used in commercial media (book covers, prints, animations, etc), so that is going to disuade people. I don't download freebies because I have better things to do with my time than try to keep track of which of them I can use in what types of projects. If I buy something, I know I can use it in most things I'm doing as long as the product itself can't be accessed in the end result project.

     That's a good point.  All of my stuff can be used for commercial projects, by the way.  And I bless any alternative MAT packs anyone might make.  Glaseye has made D/S MATs for some of my stuff (a tip o' me hat to yer, sir!)

     I'm also amused/puzzled that an insignificant little prop sometimes get lots of downloads, whereas a magnum opus creation may not.    More folks have downloaded my mulberry wine bottles than Galadriel's mirror.  The Tomb Raider catacomb was a throwaway that I just decided to upload while uploading other stuff;  it's seen pretty heavy traffic.  So I apparently don't have a grasp of what is wanted and what isn't in any case.

@seachnasaigh

I'm going to be usual dumb self and ask...

WHERE are these wonderful models posted? I can't locate them anywhere.

With the kind of studio set-up I've seen of yours seachnasaigh, I'm pretty shocked to hear that you aren't doing this to make money. I wish I had that kind of studio, I'd be bankin. lol.   

Even for those that don't know how to model well, if you can render, there's an entire community of self-published writers in the kindle-verse that will gladly pay decent money for people who can do good renders. You see a lot of Poser covers in the kindle store, and a lot of them are not very pleasing to look at. If your poser work is pleasing to look at, there's another market waiting to give you money.

     Well, the 4shared account is gone, but I've been uploading some of my old stuff -interlaced with new models- here in my R'osity free stuff gallery, and at shareCG and RDNA's community showcase forum.  Also a few things at Vanishing Point and MrSparky's site.  Oh, and there may still be stuff posted in the FaerieWylde.

     The 2014 version of Tink's Cafe' is still under construction.

There are no restrictions on anything I've made. I really don't care if you use it to make money or not. I only added the 'do not redistribute' tag on there because everyone else was doing that. Plus, even if I don't care to profit from my work, a little credit every now and again would be nice.

I can honestly say that one person sent me a link to show me how he rendered my chopper in DAZ, and hborre did a render with my Miki 4 Halo uniform. Other than that, I've never seen anything I've made in a render.... hmmmm?

:b_stunned:

the wine bottles are much more versatile than a specific themed prop. Plus, it's often difficult for a lot of people to find the little trinkets and knick-nacks that give a scene more life. The focus might be on V4's chest, but she's going to look that much better in a scene that looks like people actually use it, as opposed to an empty void.

     @Shane;  yeah, I've scavenged & Frankensteined enough gear together to plough through heavy rendering tasks!  I suppose I could do things like custom book cover art, since I can model & map what I need.  I'd love to do cover -or interior color page- images for Kathy Tyers' Firebird trilogy, or Karen Hancock's AReNA or her Light of Eidon series.

     Good point regarding universal versatility;  it did occur to me that the books -especially the "customize your own" kit, furniture, wine bottles, wall torch, light sabres, IDL candle, jade mug, wizard's lightning blast, etc would be useful for lots of scenes.  We all have looked for some knick-knack to fill in the details of a scene, haven't we?  I've seen a few images done with the Wurlitzer 1015 jukebox (animated neon bubble tubes and P8-type IDL emitters) from the last version of Tink's cafe'.

     @Rokket:  You've got a Halo uniform for Miki4?  I'll have to look that up!

@AS a source of income I had never thought of ! thanks might have to look into that ;-)

as for what (sells) even for free lol I think peeps want the click click awesome piccy [the fabled MAKE ART button]

think 10 yrs ago the poser(yeah them too) comunity had a certain amount of "geekiness" changing settings etc was commonplace where as now the user base is at least 10 times bigger but the % of "geeks" is considerably less

@rokket ~ nice bike !!!! couple of places you really need more polys but I'd guess you could reduce the poly count by 50% even after adding some

my pic is rendered in cycles (250 samples all cycles mats so I never noticed the missing file)

only really wanted something for the flames ;-) really need to spend more time/effort on blenders smoke~fire!! so much to learn so little time

(ps original is twice the size cant think why but if you'd like pm me )

I keep forgetting I have a free download as well.
Just checked and it's got 483 downloads :-D

That's not bad considering it was rendered totally useless since Bryce 7 (so god knows what they think they're doing with it).  It was actually a Mod here who asked me to put it up, and at the time, I thought what's the point.  I'm amazed that many people even bothered with it, I thought it'd be lucky to get ten downloads!

Just goes to show, even the most boring stuff will get attention if it's not what everyone else uploads.

Candygirl looks hot, and although I was thinking about it, I haven't got Anastasia :-(

The interesting thing there is that the amount of downloads of Candygirl might be indication of how well Anastasia sold.  So while there's no direct way to know other than from the vendor, providing everyone actually bought her, your downloads might be a good indicator of how well a good character can sell.

If, say, a thousand downloads of Candygirl was a good indication, then we know that Anastasia sold at least that amount.  Not to be sniffed at, that's a surprising amount because Anastasia isn't exactly the cheapest character out there.

That 1K downloads for anastasia is likely but a small fraction of the actual numbers she's sold. Blackhearted's characters have always been quite popular. 

Definitely worth working on characters if you're good at it then.  I've always wished there was some sort of popularity or download table, but for obvious reasons I don't think DAZ or Rendo will ever release one :-P

Bloody shame though, would love to know how many the most popular figure sold, or even which figure it was.  I'm guessing it was the first GND, but that's all it is, a guess.

@heddheld: thanks for the cool render! It's kind of weird seeing the bike doing a wheelie with flames shooting out the tail pipe.... and no rider!

And yeah, I created a Halo Spartan for Miki 4. It was my first fully rigged figure, and it was a HUGE learning experience for me. I learned how to transfer a donor rig, how to edit cr2's, how to use the joint editor, all on one really cool concept.

I see you found it. Hope you like it. I was going to create one for Tyler, but I ran out of time when I was doing Miki, so it never materialized.

@pumeco: I think you'll find that the top selling and most supported figure around here or elsewhere is probably going to be V4/M4 in some combination. If you go by the sheer volume of freebies made for these characters, anyhow.

     Yep, I found the Halo Spartan armor. :woot:  Thank you, Rokket!  I'll have to work up a render using that.

(Heddheld) 

Quote - I wouldnt mind peeping at some of the stuff seachnasaigh has done ;-) if only to "borrow" his settings lol 

     You're welcome to raid my freebies and reverse engineer, Heddheld.  It may be more effective if you look at some of the "why this is done" and "how to adjust that" in these threads.  Just go through the first one if you're pressed for time.

P9 - mesh as a light - how to do it?

     Wherein MrSparky and I collaborate on his The Facility project.

P8 - making Biscuit's Sparkle glow!  How?

P9 - How do I simulate torch light in an inclosed space?

P9 - How do I make a primitive object (sword) be a light emitter?

lampshade

(Rokket) 

Quote -   It's kind of weird seeing the bike doing a wheelie with flames shooting out the tail pipe.... and no rider! 

     Waaaay back in my Photobucket, I've got just the rider - Thorne's Reiley.

.

edited to add nudity tag - Reiley's nought but bare flames.

P.S.  This is an early SFX effort;  nowadays I would include a refract node so that she would be transparent where the flames are weak.  Also, she'd get a conforming IDL emitter and conforming aura.

Hmmmm...  that would make a good freebie kit for Roxie - short for "Rapid OXIdation".

i tend to go after food props in the free stuff.  

like the Toffee Apples and the Lemonade Stand
(didn't check if iz still there) 

would love a cup o tea with the tea in it and the hanging string paper.
and partially eaten food.

would love a cotton candy stand to go with the carnival theme.

sorry, wishies got all excited :rolleyes: :)

Quote - (Rokket) 

Quote -   It's kind of weird seeing the bike doing a wheelie with flames shooting out the tail pipe.... and no rider! 

     Waaaay back in my Photobucket, I've got just the rider - Thorne's Reiley.

.

edited to add nudity tag - Reiley's nought but bare flames.

P.S.  This is an early SFX effort;  nowadays I would include a refract node so that she would be transparent where the flames are weak.  Also, she'd get a conforming IDL emitter and conforming aura.

Hmmmm...  that would make a good freebie kit for Roxie - short for "Rapid OXIdation".

Now her on the bike would make a really cool render. I am tempted to make a ghost rider now, using the Poser skeleton and modeling the suit around him. We could collab on the flame head...

(Rokket) 

Quote -   I am tempted to make a ghost rider now, using the Poser skeleton and modeling the suit around him. We could collab on the flame head...

Okey doke.  Sounds like a plan.

I had two other posts here but I deleted them because it would take this thread waaaay off topic.

I will start a thread in the Wings forum and then link to it here when I have something to look at as far as the ghost rider bike.

"@pumeco: I think you'll find that the top selling and most supported figure around here or elsewhere is probably going to be V4/M4 in some combination. If you go by the sheer volume of freebies made for these characters, anyhow."

Sorry Rokket, I should have said character, not figure.  I meant it would be interesting to know which character for a figure sold the most.

Quote -
"@pumeco: I think you'll find that the top selling and most supported figure around here or elsewhere is probably going to be V4/M4 in some combination. If you go by the sheer volume of freebies made for these characters, anyhow."

Sorry Rokket, I should have said character, not figure.  I meant it would be interesting to know which character for a figure sold the most.

Ah, ok. My guess would still be a V4 morph, followed closely by any of the GND characters.

(Misty) 

Quote -   ...would love a cup o tea with the tea in it. 

     Misty, I've got a tumblehome jade mug with (topologically closed) tea in it.  Render with SSS engaged!

Low-quality quickie render - apologies for poor render quality...

.

That reminds me. I want a cup of tea... got a cup steeping as we speak...