I was willing to learn how to use the genesis base in Poser, but that was before I discovered that it doesn't have IK.  Does genesis suck in DazStudio too or is it just a Poser thing?

Genesis doesn't suck in Poser- really.  I have no issues in using Gen or Gen 2 figures in Poser, the IK is not a deal breaker for me.  I use anything from Gen 3 to Genesis 2 poses on them and simply tweak what needs to be fixed.

There is a lot more that does nog transfer ho Poser.

 Bulge maps, scaling, uv map switching just to name a few.

I haven't had any issues with Genesis figures in Poser or in Daz. 

Ik solver for Genesis and Genesis 2 poser

http://www.sharecg.com/v/67133/gallery/11/Poser/Inverse-Kinematics-for-DAZ-Genesis-1-2-in-Poser

Ik solver for Genesis and Genesis 2 poser

http://www.sharecg.com/v/67133/gallery/11/Poser/Inverse-Kinematics-for-DAZ-Genesis-1-2-in-Poser

Thank you so much for sharing

IK, when use correctly can greatly enhance how fluid poses look.  This means less work  is required to get a pose that doesn't look stiff. 

Posing without IK sucks. A LOT

Thanks fictionalbookshelf

That link is just what I need

There is a lot more that does nog transfer ho Poser.

 Bulge maps, scaling, uv map switching just to name a few.

Bulge maps should be working in the current version of the DSON Importer. There's no UI way to switch UV sets, but presets will do in - Mec4D has a free set of presets that change the UVs without changing anything else, though I'm not sure how up to date it

There is a lot more that does nog transfer ho Poser.

 Bulge maps, scaling, uv map switching just to name a few.

Bulge maps should be working in the current version of the DSON Importer. There's no UI way to switch UV sets, but presets will do in - Mec4D has a free set of presets that change the UVs without changing anything else, though I'm not sure how up to date it

Slosh has quite a set of UV switchers for Gen2 on ShareCG too. Includes more presets than Mec's iirc. Comes with both DS and Poser files (you do need to own the UVs from the Daz store to use them, though). http://www.sharecg.com/v/73633/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/UVSetterGen2-Revised-10-2014

UVsetter rocks:)

Slosh has quite a set of UV switchers for Gen2 on ShareCG too. Includes more presets than Mec's iirc. Comes with both DS and Poser files (you do need to own the UVs from the Daz store to use them, though). http://www.sharecg.com/v/73633/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/UVSetterGen2-Revised-10-2014

Thanx for those; I hadn't seen those!  Thanx also to kalrua  for posting the link to my IK pose.  :)   One note; having IK on Genesis can sometimes cause distortion of the cuffs of pants or shirts, but it will return to normal if IK is switched off before rendering

As far as using Genesis in Poser without DSON, Tony, either export it as a Poser figure from Studio, or better, load into Poser  via DSON, export the mesh, save figure as a cr2 and edit the cr2 to point to the exported geometry.  Either way it is then a native Poser figure.  However, you lose the easy UV switching that way; you need to save a seperate geometry for each UV...

PS; when is the freaking Forum going to be fixed?  :sad:

Ik solver for Genesis and Genesis 2 poser

http://www.sharecg.com/v/67133/gallery/11/Poser/Inverse-Kinematics-for-DAZ-Genesis-1-2-in-Poser

Thanks Kalura The IK works and it has saved  me months worth of pain and frustration.

As far as using Genesis in Poser without DSON, Tony, either export it as a Poser figure from Studio, or better, load into Poser  via DSON, export the mesh, save figure as a cr2 and edit the cr2 to point to the exported geometry.  Either way it is then a native Poser figure.  However, you lose the easy UV switching that way; you need to save a seperate geometry for each UV...

PS; when is the freaking Forum going to be fixed?  :sad:

You lose more than that. HD Morphs, and animated joint centers and end points are two more things you lose (The lack of support for the latter is the main reason that the whole export to a CR2 was abandoned.) and there are others. 

I don't own any HD morphs, so I can't comment on that, but I've never had any problem with animated joint centers once Poser Pro 2012 supported them properly.  Here is a render of a V5 cr2  in PP2014 with SP3 and some kid dialed in.  I did export this about 18 months ago, so perhaps something in the cr2 export was broken in the meantime.  However, JoePublic did lots of work with V5 and V6 saved after being loaded with DSON.  If the Forum Search has been fixed they'll turn up in a search..

[edited]

After a"lifetime" on the Apple Macintosh

I recently got a new windows 7 PC and decided to see what the big deal  is with genesis

I have played with the figures in DS4.7 and I concluded it is a far superior figure to anything available for poser.

However I personally have little to no use for genesis  as My pipeline includes rendering everything in Maxon Cinema4D's advanced ultra fast GI engine and the plugin I use for C4D gives me Direct support all poser figures& formats directly within C4D from any poser runtime.

Still I think it worth mentioning that DAZ studio is not only

the native support environment for the genesis figures but it supports

legacy poser/Daz figures& content as far back as Mike& Vicky 2

I have even installed the ONE CLICK script that sends DS scenes to blender 2.7 to render in cycles.

I am primarily an animator

Daz's Superior nonlinear "aniMate2" motion creation/mixing system and puppeteer motion recording system,

switchable IK system as well as its animated constraints make Daz studio

a great tool in my pipeline as it exports Motion data to animated pose files that i can use directly on poser figures within C4D.

On the matter of genesis in poser.

IMHO Daz should have NEVER bothered with "DSON"

they should have cut the bloody umbilical cord completely.

IMHO poser users should focus on either developing high quality native poser

figures... or be willing to expand your creative toolset and use alternative software

to achieve your objectives.

HD morphs on Genesis 2 work just fine in Poser. But you have to set the subdivision levels to at least 2 or (optimally) 3. 3 gives you a figure with something like a million polys, so the viewport is seriously slowed on ordinary machines. But you don't need to have subdivision turned on at all until render time.

--

As for Genesis-in-Poser --

Vilters, Wolf -- Gosh, check your egos, fellas. Who are you to say what should be available for other Poser users? Just because Genesis does not work as well in Poser as it does in DS doesn't make it worthless for everyone. I use both Genesis 1 and 2 quite frequently, and I don't see a problem. Yes, I have to use scripts to get it to work. But I also have to use scripts to get V4 to work. Scenefixer, EZSkin, the Perfect Fixes, material switching scripts, clothing fit scripts, posing scripts... the list goes on and on. So what?

So what if Genesis comes in a format that isn't native to Poser? I also use props that come in 3DS format that need to be imported before I can use them. 

Frankly, I'm relieved that Daz created the DSON importer. If they hadn't, I'd have spent the last year moaning about how all the new content for V4 was almost entirely made up of endless variations of microskirt and bikini, and I'd have a lot less variety for male figures.

If you don't like how something works, don't use it. Simple. But to suggest that because you personally don't like something, no one else should use it (or even be able to use it) is truly narcissistic.

I'm absolutely bloody SICK of people in this forum telling others what legitimate software/plugins/scripts/etc they should NOT be using.

The only issue I have is the lack of full disclosure. Telling people that the g-thing 'Works In Poser' is misleading. Because the new and the virgin (and far too many with some experience) are going to be mentally adding 'just like it does in DS' to the end of that statement, because the initial assertion suggests it. Which is a blatant untruth. If it's explained fully, no problem. But how often is it? How many times do we have to get on this merry go round when someone tries the g-thing? My personal view is if you have to slap two or more qualifiers onto something working or being compatible with something else, then it doesn't and it's not. You might be able to kludge -some- function out of it (which a lot of people have), but you do not get =full= function (and if this is no longer the case, please provide references to both stills and animation proving it). And that should be stated plainly. All we need is a sticky up at the top of the page, listing all the steps you need to take and all the urls of the assorted scripts needed to obtain specific functions, and someone take the time to write it up as a technical document, removing any and all attempts at humor and marketshare grabbing from it. Information sans opinion. From any side. Then its just point at the top and say 'ask if you have some issue not addressed there'.

HD morphs on Genesis 2 work just fine in Poser. But you have to set the subdivision levels to at least 2 or (optimally) 3. 3 gives you a figure with something like a million polys, so the viewport is seriously slowed on ordinary machines. But you don't need to have subdivision turned on at all until render time.

--

As for Genesis-in-Poser --

Vilters, Wolf -- Gosh, check your egos, fellas. Who are you to say what should be available for other Poser users? Just because Genesis does not work as well in Poser as it does in DS doesn't make it worthless for everyone. I use both Genesis 1 and 2 quite frequently, and I don't see a problem. Yes, I have to use scripts to get it to work. But I also have to use scripts to get V4 to work. Scenefixer, EZSkin, the Perfect Fixes, material switching scripts, clothing fit scripts, posing scripts... the list goes on and on. So what?

So what if Genesis comes in a format that isn't native to Poser? I also use props that come in 3DS format that need to be imported before I can use them. 

Frankly, I'm relieved that Daz created the DSON importer. If they hadn't, I'd have spent the last year moaning about how all the new content for V4 was almost entirely made up of endless variations of microskirt and bikini, and I'd have a lot less variety for male figures.

If you don't like how something works, don't use it. Simple. But to suggest that because you personally don't like something, no one else should use it (or even be able to use it) is truly narcissistic.

I'm absolutely bloody SICK of people in this forum telling others what legitimate software/plugins/scripts/etc they should NOT be using.

+1It's just a few months short of 4? years since Genesis came out, and discussions like this are still cropping up? There are a lot of people using Genesis in Poser now (including me) - just look through the Galleries (even top Poser artists like Argus use Genesis/Genesis 2). Does it work as well or the same way as in DS? No it doesn't, but the Genesis figures do work, just with a few limitations compared to how they function in DS. V4 is also far from perfect, and has a lot of additional scripts and fixes available to make her work better in Poser. I just don't get all the play ground quibbling that goes on here.

Sorry to have said anything and interrupted the regularly scheduled insanity, I just find it strange how these arguments continue on and on, and mis-information continues to be propagated by those who don't even use Genesis or Genesis 2. Quite sad, and the main reason I don't even lurk here but once or twice a month any more.

I just reinstalled DSON after a long away period... I had been using the original first version of DSON that I'd uninstalled. I can say that it seems slightly faster now than it had (maybe just some time was necessary to iron out the bugs) and I can say for certain that Genesis DOES work in Poser, but no, not like it does in DS. The most obvious reason is I'm using it in Poser ;). I do like the Genny2 figures better than I had the Genny1s...guess that means I might have to buy some stuff...EEK. ;)

BTW, if anyone knows of a very detailed tutorial on how to get stuff from DS out to import into Poser I'd be extremely grateful for a link :D

Laurie

The only issue I have is the lack of full disclosure. Telling people that the g-thing 'Works In Poser' is misleading. Because the new and the virgin (and far too many with some experience) are going to be mentally adding 'just like it does in DS' to the end of that statement, because the initial assertion suggests it. Which is a blatant untruth. If it's explained fully, no problem. But how often is it? How many times do we have to get on this merry go round when someone tries the g-thing? My personal view is if you have to slap two or more qualifiers onto something working or being compatible with something else, then it doesn't and it's not. You might be able to kludge -some- function out of it (which a lot of people have), but you do not get =full= function (and if this is no longer the case, please provide references to both stills and animation proving it). And that should be stated plainly. All we need is a sticky up at the top of the page, listing all the steps you need to take and all the urls of the assorted scripts needed to obtain specific functions, and someone take the time to write it up as a technical document, removing any and all attempts at humor and marketshare grabbing from it. Information sans opinion. From any side. Then its just point at the top and say 'ask if you have some issue not addressed there'.

Well, the function that I regularly "kludge" out of Genesis includes: 1. loading a figure, 2. dressing a figure, 3. fitting clothing to a figure, 4. using a figure in the cloth room, 5. morphing a figure, 6. texturing a figure, 7. posing a figure, 8. rendering a figure in a scene.  I particularly enjoy "kludging" through step 3, which with Genesis is a one-click operation, as opposed to V4 and her magnets.

In my experience, the issues surrounding DSON importation and installing the plugin really aren't any more complex than the problems new users experience in installing V4. Making any Daz content work in Poser requires some knowledge beyond simply downloading a zip file. It always has.

I don't do animations in Poser; I haven't got a clue HOW to do animations in Poser with any figure. So I have nothing to say about that. If you find that Genesis isn't appropriate for animations, I won't contradict you. I also don't use DS, so I can't speak to exactly what Genesis can do in DS that it can't do in Poser. But since I'm not using DS, I'm not missing those things either. :)

But I know what it can do in Poser for still shots. It poses, morphs, and renders. For a great many users, that's kinda the whole point. And it's why, when someone new wants info on Genesis 1/2 and using it in Poser, pretty much everyone here asks the OP what they want to use it for -- because we all know that, regardless of who holds the IP, some figures/software/tech/methods are more optimized for some uses and workflows than others. Doesn't make any of them worthless. Just means you should pick which advantages you're unwilling to live without and which disadvantages you're willing to live with. As with all things, this will vary greatly from one person to another, and no one has the right to insist that their standards be universal.

As for a Daz figure working 100% perfectly in Poser -- V4 does not work as well in Poser as she does in DS. In Poser, there is no autofit, so if you have any morph beyond the most popular ones, you have to use multistep third party utilities like Morphing Clothes or the Pro 2014 fitting room to fit clothes to her. Should we be required to qualify every statement about V4 in Poser with the details of how she is lacking compared with her utility in DS? Methinks that would be pretty effective advertising for Daz Studio. LOL.

As for a Daz figure working 100% perfectly in Poser -- V4 does not work as well in Poser as she does in DS. In Poser, there is no autofit, so if you have any morph beyond the most popular ones, you have to use multistep third party utilities like Morphing Clothes or the Pro 2014 fitting room to fit clothes to her. Should we be required to qualify every statement about V4 in Poser with the details of how she is lacking compared with her utility in DS? Methinks that would be pretty effective advertising for Daz Studio. LOL.

I don't use Genesis, just a personal choice for me, but I do use V4 I agree with the comments regards V4, when I look at the scripts and morphs to try an make the V4 workable it certainly is not a click and render figure, what figure is?  Although I do not use Genesis and I glad to see the figure can be used in Poser and that the support for the figure is growing.  I do think though that the argument has moved on for most people in that there was, rightly or wrongly, a great deal of animosity levelled against Genesis and Daz at the time of launch.  Much of that has died away and those that want to use it can and those that don't can leave it.  The arguments now seemed to be generated not by the the advantages or disadvantages of Genesis but more from the personal attacks because someone does not agree certain posters with view.  Unfortunately, in that respect, Genesis is not alone.

Hornet -- Yes, indeed.

You know, if there were no arguments about Genesis, it'd be something else. Before "The Split", there were certainly plenty of very passionate arguments pitting whatever Daz figure was pre-eminent against the Poser native figures (I do believe Poser 5 may have been an exception, however. LOL But I kinda liked Don and Judy). Every release of Poser, same thing. To me, the Genesis arguments seem like simply a continuation of a very old tradition.

Hornet -- Yes, indeed.

You know, if there were no arguments about Genesis, it'd be something else. Before "The Split", there were certainly plenty of very passionate arguments pitting whatever Daz figure was pre-eminent against the Poser native figures (I do believe Poser 5 may have been an exception, however. LOL But I kinda liked Don and Judy). Every release of Poser, same thing. To me, the Genesis arguments seem like simply a continuation of a very old tradition.

I don't doubt that for a minute.  While I started using Poser 5 (after having used DAZ for a couple of years) I did not come across Renderosity until much later so I did not know the history.  For a couple of years I shopped solely at Daz and never used the forums, how things have changed. Since then I have found this forum to be immensely useful but I am dismayed by how personal it can get at times, just because someone does not agree with me does not make them an idiot, although the reverse might possibly be true.  I have also never understood the competition mindset like the constant my Apple box is better that you PC box, when I used to build kit cars it was always mine is faster and brighter than yours.  What seems lost on a lot of people is that the people into 3D art are very much a minority and surely it would be better to help each other than to call each others names of question their intelligence. 

During my years of kit car building I helped numerous other builders with kits from many different suppliers, the fact that they had the same interest as me was what was important, not where the kit came from.

Artists can be passionate, that I understand, by all means defend your beliefs but, for me at least, when it comes to insulting the other person you have lost the argument.
I now sh

Yes. When the community gets together, it's amazing what it can do. I guess the Dunning-Krueger effect is strong on the internet. If I'm going to judge someone else's intelligence (though what gives me the right or ability to do so with any accuracy is highly questionable to begin with), I will take the one with doubt about his or her beliefs/opinions over the one with certainty because a healthy skepticism about one's own intelligence is the most significant sign of smarts (as per Dunning-Krueger). The most important things I learned in university were not in the curriculum; I learned how much I didn't know, how much I couldn't know, and how many other people there might be, even in a small room, who were much smarter than me. 

It's the unyielding certainty of the highly opinionated that I believe leads to unending repetition of the same arguments. (And I admit that I am not immune to such "certainty" myself -- but at least I recognize, if not at the time then later, that this is a problem most humans, including me, tend to exhibit).

--

In other news, I just tried animating Vicky 5 in Poser. I just loaded a 705 frame dance clip for V4 that I got from Eclipse studios. Vicky 5 looks wasted because I didn't bother editing any of the frames and it's not meant for the Genesis fig. (I also can't speak the the quality of the particular clip -- V4 doesn't look entirely sober doing the same steps). But her dynamic dress took less than 8 minutes to simulate through all 705 frames. With subdivision turned off, Genesis is very, very fast in Poser animations and in the cloth room. Given that I've never rendered an animation in Poser before in my life, and I spent less than ten minutes making this one (including preview render time), I think she works quite well, as far as my utterly inexpert animating eye can tell.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2co0aj_drunkenvicky_tech

The only issue I have is the lack of full disclosure. Telling people that the g-thing 'Works In Poser' is misleading. Because the new and the virgin (and far too many with some experience) are going to be mentally adding 'just like it does in DS' to the end of that statement, because the initial assertion suggests it. Which is a blatant untruth. If it's explained fully, no problem. But how often is it? How many times do we have to get on this merry go round when someone tries the g-thing? My personal view is if you have to slap two or more qualifiers onto something working or being compatible with something else, then it doesn't and it's not. You might be able to kludge -some- function out of it (which a lot of people have), but you do not get =full= function (and if this is no longer the case, please provide references to both stills and animation proving it). And that should be stated plainly. All we need is a sticky up at the top of the page, listing all the steps you need to take and all the urls of the assorted scripts needed to obtain specific functions, and someone take the time to write it up as a technical document, removing any and all attempts at humor and marketshare grabbing from it. Information sans opinion. From any side. Then its just point at the top and say 'ask if you have some issue not addressed there'.

Well, the function that I regularly "kludge" out of Genesis includes: 1. loading a figure, 2. dressing a figure, 3. fitting clothing to a figure, 4. using a figure in the cloth room, 5. morphing a figure, 6. texturing a figure, 7. posing a figure, 8. rendering a figure in a scene.  I particularly enjoy "kludging" through step 3, which with Genesis is a one-click operation, as opposed to V4 and her magnets.

In my experience, the issues surrounding DSON importation and installing the plugin really aren't any more complex than the problems new users experience in installing V4. Making any Daz content work in Poser requires some knowledge beyond simply downloading a zip file. It always has.

I don't do animations in Poser; I haven't got a clue HOW to do animations in Poser with any figure. So I have nothing to say about that. If you find that Genesis isn't appropriate for animations, I won't contradict you. I also don't use DS, so I can't speak to exactly what Genesis can do in DS that it can't do in Poser. But since I'm not using DS, I'm not missing those things either. :)

But I know what it can do in Poser for still shots. It poses, morphs, and renders. For a great many users, that's kinda the whole point. And it's why, when someone new wants info on Genesis 1/2 and using it in Poser, pretty much everyone here asks the OP what they want to use it for -- because we all know that, regardless of who holds the IP, some figures/software/tech/methods are more optimized for some uses and workflows than others. Doesn't make any of them worthless. Just means you should pick which advantages you're unwilling to live without and which disadvantages you're willing to live with. As with all things, this will vary greatly from one person to another, and no one has the right to insist that their standards be universal.

The point that is getting buried underneath a lot of personality conflicts is the concept of time. As an animator, seconds are precious to me. That's one reason I use the Poser-Vue pipeline. If they haven't broken the SDK functions with a blown update, the import is quick and smooth. Yes, I can create the illusion of terrain in Poser, but not the kinds of terrain you get with Vue. The lighting system there is far more flexible and easier to work with....saving time. Adding a half dozen steps per figure just to get the figure to a usable state is wasting time at best. If you have a paying job, you usually have a deadline. Those kinds of shenanigans can run you out of your contracted time very quickly, and then you are sol, depending on the contract terms. In my case it is writing and animating an original story, so I have even less time to waste, as I have pretty much all the jobs involved in bringing something to life on my plate. Being able to morph from one figure to another would have been cool...but none of my pipeline talks with DS. You do not get full function from the figure, as it was built to -need- DS for that, so its a no go.

I'm sure genesis was fast in Poser; with sub-d off, it is a very light mesh. However, that is not a function of being genesis. Any mesh as light as that one is would be equally as fast, unless it had some bad vertex's at just the wrong place.

And not to be combative, but the real test would be with a mocap file created specifically for that rig, or seeing how well behaved it is when someone goes into the graph editor and starts correcting the errors (which is a valid practice. If a client insists you use X mocap file, then you have to clean the bugger up by hand). If it meets yours and others needs, great. But as one who was really hoping to see advances in Poser specific technology in figures, the number of hoops you have to jump through to get partial functionality of that system simply are not worth the investment in my case. Their program will not fit into my pipeline, except possibly catty cornered. And I really do not want to see Poser held hostage to another company again, as most of the neato work around tricks in V2-3-4 etc were created by the end users because the figure creator refused to move beyond P4 and its severe limitations. If someone manages an effective way to get the full functionality of genesis into Poser, I'll be happy to re-evaluate my stance. Until that happens, too little return for too much annoyance.

And not to be combative, but the real test would be with a mocap file created specifically for that rig, or seeing how well behaved it is when someone goes into the graph editor and starts correcting the errors (which is a valid practice. If a client insists you use X mocap file, then you have to clean the bugger up by hand). If it meets yours and others needs, great. But as one who was really hoping to see advances in Poser specific technology in figures, the number of hoops you have to jump through to get partial functionality of that system simply are not worth the investment in my case. Their program will not fit into my pipeline, except possibly catty cornered. And I really do not want to see Poser held hostage to another company again, as most of the neato work around tricks in V2-3-4 etc were created by the end users because the figure creator refused to move beyond P4 and its severe limitations. If someone manages an effective way to get the full functionality of genesis into Poser, I'll be happy to re-evaluate my stance. Until that happens, too little return for too much annoyance.

Totally agree. I'm not willing to expend the time to practice editing individual frames just to make a quick point, which is that even throwing a V4 pose at it, Genesis animates in Poser without exploding  -- or crippling the Poser UI or refusing to render or making the cameras unusable. Not claiming anything else. :) Hobbyist users come with a completely different set of needs and expectations from those using the software in a professional production pipeline. I think we can all agree that what is "good enough" for a home user rendering Xmas cards may not be acceptable for a firm using an animation in advertising. Even the addition of a single more mouseclick to a workflow can end up being a burden. I get that.

The problem is when we conflate the two sets of expectations. I think you made that point when you asked for "full disclosure". Unfortunately, I think that a lot of hobbyists are persuaded by the professional's higher standards that they can't use something (like Genesis -- or the Poser native figures, for that matter), when the truth is that those figures (Roxie, Genesis, whatever) might suit the home user or semi-professional or non-animator etc perfectly well. 

I'd never claim that Genesis was appropriate for people who like to render 15 characters in a scene, either, unless they were willing to use my particular workflow. I don't use Genesis in Poser because I think it's a better choice that a native figure. I usually use it when the content I need hasn't been developed for native figures (usually content for male figures). I find it easier to load, pose, render a Genesis male figure than to convert the clothing to a M4 and then load, pose, and render. (And either option is better, I think, than moaning about how there's no content for my figure of choice while getting no closer to a finished render -- which I've seen a lot of in various forums. Despite "autofit", Daz users do it just as much.). But that's just me.

To put it another way -- if I were making a book cover for a client that required the rendering of a couple of historical outfits that were only available for Genesis 2, I'd have a few options: I could try to get someone to make me a custom set for Gen4 characters, I could try to kitbash my way into getting a close approximation, I could try to convert those outfits to work with Gen4 characters, I could try to render those outfits in Daz Studio, or I could use the DSON importer and just render those outfits on Genesis in Poser.

From a production standpoint, which of those options is actually the most cost and time efficient? 

It will vary from person to person, of course. For me, though, the last option is clearly the best.