Well, I think you will find a rather diverging set of opinions about it. I don't find Carrara faulty or buggy at all - it hasn't failed me yet.

In fact, there have been very few instances where I've reached the limits of it, and in some of those it was really the limits of my knowledge of it. Where I hit the wall, there are usually some workarounds or, at the worst - a commercial plug-in to add the functionality that I find missing in the core software.

It depends on what you want to be able to do with the software. For basic 3D which can combine modelling, scene setup, rigged DAZ content, morphing, basic UV-mapping, advanced shading, texturing, surface-painting, easy object replication, pretty nifty rendering and even python scripting (there is a plug-in for that) - I don't know of anything better for the buck AND easier to learn.

Blender is free and can do most of those things (except DAZ content), as far as I know, but I find the interface a hell-and-a-half to lean. I tried multiple time, including following tutorials for it - and ran away screaming each and every one of those times.

Carrara UI is visual, clean and once you understand the concept of different functionality tabs/rooms - very logical and a piece of cake to learn.

You can find example of my Carrara work in my Gallery (by NO means the best there is - there are better and much more talented and advanced users out there, but I don't use outside renderers, so it can give you a sense of what Carrara's native renderer can do in mediocre hands...)

Also, DAZ forums has the recent Carrara challenge with some work by Carrara newcomers, to give you a sense of what a newbie experience might feel like. It's in voting, too, so if you stop by in the next couple of hours - take a minute to vote, please! :)

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/49155/

P.S. About investment in tutorials: if you can find samples videos from both, compare Infinite Skills to Mark Bremmer's tutorials - they cover similar things, but there are some differences, so I'd look into it to see what's the best fit for you.

Also, most DCG plug-ins are a very worthwhile investment. Things like Shaders Plus, Shader Ops (1 & 2), Anything Goos are must haves in my book. There are also very useful Shoestring Shaders. And Toon Pro can be extremely useful for a variety of looks, not just strictly toon. It's not that you absolutely wouldn't be able to do without them, but they make life much easier and some very cool things possible.

The DAZ forum is heavily moderated, that is why you will see people freely discuss issues with carrara here you wont see on the DAZ forum.

The issues you may run into are mostly related to using DAZ content in it.

Carrara was once one of the best mid-range 3D applications. There was a time it seemed if Daz was in a position to make it the best of all of their programs; a viable alternative to Poser with modeling and landscaping built in. Somewhere along the way it became almost an afterthought. Unlike Daz Studio which, despite being forever in beta, improved greatly in a few years, most all improvements to Carrara (while also forever in beta) seemed to revolve around catching up to D|S. Carrara users waited ages for paid upgrades which ignored long standing complaints and instead were foisted half-baked Genesis compatibility and content management which from the sounds of things seems almost universally despised. There's still a good program in there, but it should have been a great program by now given the amount of work the community has put into chasing and documenting its bugs - many of which would never have been introduced had Daz simply improved the areas that needed attention rather than shoehorning the bits and pieces of Studio the geniuses at Daz figured Carrara needed to fit in with their content-centric business model.

In their defense, there's no way they could continue developing Carrara and not include Genesis compatibility. There are many Poser users who still can't accept that Poser isn't and never will again be ideal for using Daz figures.

My intention is to use Carrara to work from scratch, using it as a cheap alternative to Maya. I have a degree in digital media, and want a package I can make video game assets and cutscenes with. I will never touch Daz content with it. I have had my fill of that, having used Poser since version 4.

In the beginning the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

My intention is to use Carrara to work from scratch, using it as a cheap alternative to Maya. I have a degree in digital media, and want a package I can make video game assets and cutscenes with. I will never touch Daz content with it. I have had my fill of that, having used Poser since version 4.

Then you should have few issues. True DAZ has sadly lagged carrara behind the more up to date/pricy apps in it's never ending goal to make it Studio pro. Spending most of it's developmental time working to make it more DAZ content friendly. Out side of tweaking a few features most of C8.5 was to make it DUF/genesis compatible.

Short answer is no, there is nothing wrong with Carrara. It's actually pretty great.

Now DAZ on the other hand... let's just say it's a good thing I don't have to be in love with the owners of the software to appreciate how great the software is on it's own...

You mention that you have no intention of using DAZ content, so like Stanley said you should have very few issues, the main complaints with Carrara have been with little problems in using Genesis and Genesis2. Still, for the main part Carrara can use Poser and DAZ content natively, which imo is a good feature to fall back on if you don't want to model everything yourself (but if the project requires that, Carrara can do that too) since there's a wealth of inexpensive fairly good quality content available to use.

But no, there's nothing inherently wrong with Carrara. I've tried tons of different applications, and Carrara remains my favorite and by far the most useful. And with the new concept that Stringtheory figured out of using soft-body proxy objects, it now can do dynamic cloth (with very quick sims too) at least in version 8+, as part of the Bullet physics engine (it just took someone with a bit of genius, like Stringtheory, to figure out how to make it work).

The development cycle for Carrara is slow verging on non-existent. But then again, it already does nearly everything, so even if there is never a Carrara 9 (which I believe there will be, if only to make Genesis/Genesis2 content work more seamlessly) it may not much matter. In terms of finding an inexpensive alternative to Maya, I think Carrara is an excellent choice. Actually it's a pretty narrow field of software that could possibly fill those shoes, at least inexpensively. Carrara, possibly Blender... drawing a blank otherwise..

In terms of finding an inexpensive alternative to Maya, I think Carrara is an excellent choice. Actually it's a pretty narrow field of software that could possibly fill those shoes, at least inexpensively. Carrara, possibly Blender... drawing a blank otherwise..

Yeah, there seem to be less choices than just a few years ago. Being a long time Poser user Shade 3D Professional has always tempted me, as it's in a similar price range (and could be purchased as a competitive upgrade from Carrara through its previous distributors - not sure if that's still the case) and features Poser compatibility. Modo, Maya and Houdini also have indie and subscription versions, but I can't say I've looked too closely at either. Just the other day on Steam I discovered Ray Supreme, which is described as "a full-featured, powerful and easy to use 3D modeling, texturing and rendering software that features many of the tools you would expect from any professional 3D software". Never even heard of it before.

But I haven't completely given up on Carrara quite yet... Just waiting for Daz to finally get all of their ducks in a row.

My intention is to use Carrara to work from scratch, using it as a cheap alternative to Maya. I have a degree in digital media, and want a package I can make video game assets and cutscenes with. I will never touch Daz content with it. I have had my fill of that, having used Poser since version 4.

Carrara should work just fine for your stated purpose. And Antaran is right, those DCG plugins are an outstanding addition to Carrara. I have almost all of them, and I use them to some extent every time I open Carrara, which is daily. :)

My intention is to use Carrara to work from scratch, using it as a cheap alternative to Maya. I have a degree in digital media, and want a package I can make video game assets and cutscenes with. I will never touch Daz content with it. I have had my fill of that, having used Poser since version 4.

Then you should have few issues. True DAZ has sadly lagged carrara behind the more up to date/pricy apps in it's never ending goal to make it Studio pro. Spending most of it's developmental time working to make it more DAZ content friendly. Out side of tweaking a few features most of C8.5 was to make it DUF/genesis compatible.

You claim to have a "degree" in digital media, yet you still waste your time and "education" on carrara.

I get it now. You clearly have a history of wasting lots of money on things of no value or usefulness.

Take the hint, DAZ doesn't give a squirt of piss about it's users as evidenced by how they keep you hanging on without even a glimmer of hope of making carrara any better than what it is.

Yet all of you keep coming back for more abuse, then complain when nothing changes - over and over again. Definition of insanity if I'm not mistaken.

My intention is to use Carrara to work from scratch, using it as a cheap alternative to Maya. I have a degree in digital media, and want a package I can make video game assets and cutscenes with. I will never touch Daz content with it. I have had my fill of that, having used Poser since version 4.

You claim to have a "degree" in digital media, yet you still waste your time and "education" on carrara.

I get it now. You clearly have a history of wasting lots of money on things of no value or usefulness.

Take the hint, DAZ doesn't give a squirt of piss about it's users as evidenced by how they keep you hanging on without even a glimmer of hope of making carrara any better than what it is.

Yet all of you keep coming back for more abuse, then complain when nothing changes - over and over again. Definition of insanity if I'm not mistaken.

You say that like anyone gives a flying rats hairless tail what you think.

Man, where's an iceberg when you need one?

Carrara 8.x works fine for your stated purpose, and most Poser-ready material works very well with only maybe a shader tweak or two. As stated, the product does not work so well on the Genesis-era Daz stuff, so if shy away from that for now. Even so you will also have a TON of ready-made content at your disposal. The modeling abilities are pretty awesome too, although I've had a bit of trouble figuring out how to properly set up UV textures- but that's just me because I'm a noob LOL! The product offers really quite a lot in its price range. I've used it for years now and have been relatively happy with the results. Do I wish Daz would give a bit more bandwidth to the product and better acknowledge its loyal user base - of course! But even if they never do another thing with it, I can get quite a lot out of it for the foreseeable future - so I'll keep on using it...

You claim to have a "degree" in digital media, yet you still waste your time and "education" on carrara. I get it now. You clearly have a history of wasting lots of money on things of no value or usefulness.

Take the hint, DAZ doesn't give a squirt of piss about it's users as evidenced by how they keep you hanging on without even a glimmer of hope of making carrara any better than what it is.

Yet all of you keep coming back for more abuse, then complain when nothing changes - over and over again. Definition of insanity if I'm not mistaken.

This guy's a cute one, isn't he? You should maybe go back to 4chan. I hear there are lots your kind there.

In the beginning the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Hello ladies and gentleman,

titanic401 is a troll. Please don't feed him. He hijacked a thread in June and is very close to getting banned. He only shows up to insult members. His lack of any work and nothing but vitriol speaks volumes.

Mark

To get back to the thread,

there isn't anything wrong with Carrara. Pretty much all of the constructive feedback written in this thread is practical. Let's summarize.

DAZ has focused much of the development of Carrara on DAZ studio / Poser interfacing and capabilities.
Carrara has had some significant upgrades for some things such as bullet physics and there have been rendering engines which can now interface with Carrara.
In general, Carrara hasn't had the kinds of upgrades or updates that would keep it competitive with some of the bigger heavier hitting packages. This aspect has been a significant problem for the code. Carrara hasn't kept up with the market. In addition, DAZ has had some issues with the user base. As an example , there was a significant expectation that there would be version 9 by now and there are some changes which have been done to the code which a large portion of the user base are not happy with.

So, is there a problem with Carrara? I think we are all wondering what the answer to that question. There are a lot of us out here who have been using the code productively for a long time and we would like to continue doing that. However, if things keep going the way they are, we will move on to other tools that can do the things we need to do.

Hope that helps.

-Kix

To get back to the thread,

there isn't anything wrong with Carrara. Pretty much all of the constructive feedback written in this thread is practical. Let's summarize.

DAZ has focused much of the development of Carrara on DAZ studio / Poser interfacing and capabilities.

Carrara has had some significant upgrades for some things such as bullet physics and there have been rendering engines which can now interface with Carrara.

In general, Carrara hasn't had the kinds of upgrades or updates that would keep it competitive with some of the bigger heavier hitting packages. This aspect has been a significant problem for the code. Carrara hasn't kept up with the market. In addition, DAZ has had some issues with the user base. As an example , there was a significant expectation that there would be version 9 by now and there are some changes which have been done to the code which a large portion of the user base are not happy with.

So, is there a problem with Carrara? I think we are all wondering what the answer to that question. There are a lot of us out here who have been using the code productively for a long time and we would like to continue doing that. However, if things keep going the way they are, we will move on to other tools that can do the things we need to do.

Hope that helps.

Sounds reasonable. What other tools are you referring to, exactly? All I have seen in a similar price range is Blacksmith, and going up the price scale a bit, Maya LT and Lightwave.

In the beginning the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Blacksmith

I meant Shade 3d there. Woops.

In the beginning the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Hello ladies and gentleman,

titanic401 is a troll. Please don't feed him. He hijacked a thread in June and is very close to getting banned. He only shows up to insult members. His lack of any work and nothing but vitriol speaks volumes.

Mark

I am NOT a troll.

I am however an ex-carrara user who got wise and for the life of me can't figure out why anybody would continue to PAY for a old, worn-out piece of software that is no different or better than it was 10 years ago?

Does that sound like DAZ cares to you?

You call me a "troll", but prove me wrong on anything I've stated. If you want to ban me for stating my opinion, knock yourself out but all that will do is prove one of the other statements I made that if anyone dares say anything against DAZ they will be silenced.

And why? Because DAZ wants to keep you paying for software that hasn't had any new features or modelers for YEARS, features that are now considered basic to every other package around. Any motion tracking in carrara yet? Any compositing? Any animation drivers? Does carrara have access to any other rendering engine yet which isn't a creation of DAZ? Any softbodies? Any cloth simulation? Any smoke simulation? Any nodes? A built in game engine, perhaps? Any HD rendering yet?

I think you and I both no the answers to some, if not all, of these questions and that would be 'NO'. And why not? DAZ hasn't collected enough money yet? Why is it that carrara still looks and functions the same as it did 10 years ago? What's DAZ's excuse for that?

You accuse me of "hijacking" a thread - how is stating my opinion and asking legitimate questions "hijacking"? So, basically, anybody can post anything they want as long as you and DAZ agree with the content?

You claim I have no work to show? What "work" would you consider proper without being accused of "hijacking"? I can quickly go pose a figure, put a sword in it's hand, brag about my "degree" - which by the way is pretty much ALL carrara is still capable of these days.

Instead of throwing out accusations and calling me a "troll", why don't those who still think carrara is relevent and still insist on paying to keep waiting for a .xx "update" from DAZ, show their work. Just between you and me, there is no "update" is there? The reality of it is that DAZ is just collecting money based on the 'hope' of an update. And in the end, update or no, carrara will function the same as it always has - lousy.

So ban me if you don't agree with my opinions under the guise of being a "troll". Truth doesn't matter anymore apparently, unless it's the way somebody wants to hear it.

@Titanic401,

Having a personal opinion about a software is fine.

Attacking the users of the software is not - it violates the Terms of Service you agreed to when joining Renderosity.

Please see your site-mail for other notes I've sent you about this.

To get back to the thread,

there isn't anything wrong with Carrara. Pretty much all of the constructive feedback written in this thread is practical. Let's summarize.

DAZ has focused much of the development of Carrara on DAZ studio / Poser interfacing and capabilities.

Carrara has had some significant upgrades for some things such as bullet physics and there have been rendering engines which can now interface with Carrara.

In general, Carrara hasn't had the kinds of upgrades or updates that would keep it competitive with some of the bigger heavier hitting packages. This aspect has been a significant problem for the code. Carrara hasn't kept up with the market. In addition, DAZ has had some issues with the user base. As an example , there was a significant expectation that there would be version 9 by now and there are some changes which have been done to the code which a large portion of the user base are not happy with.

So, is there a problem with Carrara? I think we are all wondering what the answer to that question. There are a lot of us out here who have been using the code productively for a long time and we would like to continue doing that. However, if things keep going the way they are, we will move on to other tools that can do the things we need to do.

Hope that helps.

Sounds reasonable. What other tools are you referring to, exactly? All I have seen in a similar price range is Blacksmith, and going up the price scale a bit, Maya LT and Lightwave.

Well, of course there's always Blender. It's getting better with each update. I've played with it some, but I'm still more comfortable with Carrara. 3DCoat is reasonably priced and good at sculpting, 3D painting, uv mapping and retopology. It's also coming along as a renderer. Silo is a good, stable modeler. I use Silo as my modeler (because I just can't get my mind around Carrara's modeler), 3DCoat for 3D painting and mapping (Carrara has pretty decent 3D paint capabilities, but I like 3DCoat better), and I set up and render in Carrara. I use the many plugins for Carrara to tweak or create shaders for my models. I render in Carrara using the native renderer or I use Lux with the Luxus plugin. I've also used Blender's fluid sim capability and imported the result into Carrara for textures and rendering. It came our pretty well.

I also rig my models in Poser because that's where my experience is. Once I get more comfortable with my skills, I may move away from Poser, we'll see.

You can use Carrara in conjunction with a whole range of software to get what you're after. Carrara is flexible, stable and easy to learn. With Carrara, you're not tied to any one piece of software.

On question that I do have about Carrara: Does it have something along the lines of Maya's 'set driven key' functionality? What about proxy rigs?

In the beginning the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

On question that I do have about Carrara: Does it have something along the lines of Maya's 'set driven key' functionality? What about proxy rigs?

Someone more knowledgeable than I will hopefully post a better answer, but I didn't immediately know what either term meant. A quick google search of 'set driven key' makes me think (if I'm understanding it correctly) that this would be similar/same as Fenric's ERC plugin for Carrara (http://www.daz3d.com/carrara-enhanced-remote-control is the product page at daz, which has more details) Proxy rigs when I googled, I didn't really understand, looked like there were a lot of possible definitions there. Can you share what you are trying to accomplish or what the purpose of a proxy rig is? That might better guide an answer, everything I could find on the term made me think this should likely be something Carrara can do, but I may be completely misunderstanding what you're seeking.

On question that I do have about Carrara: Does it have something along the lines of Maya's 'set driven key' functionality? What about proxy rigs?

No. None of those things.

Hope you didn't waste the money yet.

Set driven key in Maya is a thing that lets you set a keyframe at either end of a desired motion or change for one or more attributes (say, like a finger curl position) and then tie that to a change in a different attribute (for instance, a slider you construct). When you move the slider, it causes the finger to curl. The finger joints would be the driven, and the slider would be the driver. What you linked looks like you could get the same functionality out of it, just in a little bit of a different way, so that's good to know about.

A proxy rig is (iirc; it's been a while so I may be using the term incorrectly) is a rig with much more complex controls than the skeleton that is actually in a figure, which can be a simple IK skeleton. The animations done with the proxy rig are then retargeted to the simpler IK skeleton. The reason I would use this sort of a setup is that some game engines do not support very complex rigs. You can make the proxy a complex as you like, even having full production level controls, like something they would use on a Hollywood film's CG sequence, and have all that control, and then bake those motions out to use on the simpler rig that gets used in the game engine. It's not -that- important, but it's something I'd put on a wishlist for features.

Of course, Carrara has a Python plugin, so the community could code some of these missing things if they really wanted to.

In the beginning the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Yes Fenric's ERC will do exactly what you describe for the set driven key. In fact I remember one of Faba's earlier test animations that was coincidentally enough an animation made of a M4 hand with sliders which would allow each of the fingers and thumb to grasp/bend/curl straighten, move away from each other, clench, etc individually all based on a few slider objects she had set up.

For what you describe as a proxy rig, I'm sorry but I have no idea. I know you can take existing bvh animations and put them on any skeleton, but I have very little experience with animation and I don't know if there are problems inherent in putting an animation which was designed for a more complex skeleton onto a simpler skeleton (I suspect you'd be able to do it, but it would look a little weird and you'd get people walking above the ground or through it, etc). I bet sci-fi funk could answer this in a second though, he does tons of excellent animation and would know. There are lots of much more experienced carrara users than me who do animation stuff all the time, so hopefully one of them will see your question and answer better than I can.

You've went well beyond my use of carrara. I've rigged and animated a few make human figures, but not went that far in to carrara's rigging abilities.

Black Days

I just wanted to chime in. Carrara is a GREAT programme. As far as I know, Version 6,7& 8 work very well (I personally still use C7Pro). I have very few issues with the software.

Most of the big problems came in with c8.5. Genesis & DUF issues seem to be pervasive.

The main DAZ forum is heavily monitored, so you won't see many problems being discussed.

For your stated aim, the software should work perfectly fine.

There are a LOT of low cost (or free) items already modeled for Carrara, in case you don't want to build everything from scratch.

If you run into any trouble, there are PLENTY of knowledgeable users to help you.

Best of Luck!

To everyone that gave constructive feedback in this thread, you have my thanks. I think I have the information I need to make my decision.

In the beginning the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Just to shoot one more comment into this discussion, for modeling gaming assets, I'm highly confident you can do that in Carrara with no problem. If you want to see modeling possibilities, go and look at my gallery. Everything in my gallery (99.9995% anyway) was modeled by me alone all 100% Carrara.

Every package takes some time to learn and Carrara is no different. However, I think for the kinds of things you have mentioned, you will succeed with Carrara.

For my part, the kinds of things that I would like to see Carrara come forward with would be better clouds and atmospheric effects. As for moving on to a different tool, Vue is a solution I have been considering. To be clear, no package can do everything and even though Carrara can't do some things I want, I'm still generating a lot of great results with it on a regular basis.

One last note, a common thing I notice is that Carrara may not do things in the same conventional way that some other packages do but there is a very likely chance you can find a Carrara solution to do pretty much anything you want. Just ask around here and we can very likely figure out a Carrara loophole to get you where you need to go.

-Kix

My simple answer is - for the "money" currently only $159 I think there is nothing better than Carrara for an all round software that will utilise daz AND poser content and imports and exports a plethora of formats. It is not perfect and that is more Daz's fault through lack of interest in developing and marketing Carrara. Someone said it is little different to Carrara of ten years ago - not true of course - many things added since then. If you can live with the software as is there is a lot to learn about what it can do as any regular user will testify. Forget the negatives here and elsewhere and give it a try

http://bond3d.wix.com/carrarators#!carrarcafe/c1ms5

http://www.bond3d.byethost18.com/index.php

My simple answer is - for the "money" currently only $159 I think there is nothing better than Carrara for an all round software that will utilise daz AND poser content and imports and exports a plethora of formats. It is not perfect and that is more Daz's fault through lack of interest in developing and marketing Carrara. Someone said it is little different to Carrara of ten years ago - not true of course - many things added since then. If you can live with the software as is there is a lot to learn about what it can do as any regular user will testify. Forget the negatives here and elsewhere and give it a try

http://bond3d.wix.com/carrarators#!carrarcafe/c1ms5

http://www.bond3d.byethost18.com/index.php

"Many things added..." - like what, exactly?

Assuming 10 years ago we were with version 5 you've now got -

Bullet Physics

Soft Body

Dynamic Hair

Paint

Non Linear Animation Clips

Mimic for Carrara ( plug in)

and

What’s New in Carrara 8.5? ( as listed by Daz)

⦁ Native DSON Importer means seamless integration of:

⦁ TriAxTMWeight Mapped figures (Genesis, G2F, G2M)

⦁ General Weight Mapped figures

⦁ Legacy Parametric Figures (4th Generation and earlier)

⦁ DSON presets

⦁ Scenes

⦁ Scene Subsets

⦁ Wearable(s) Preset

⦁ Character Preset

⦁ Properties Preset

⦁ Shaping Preset

⦁ Pose Preset

⦁ Hierarchical Material(s) Preset

⦁ Material(s) Preset

⦁ Shader Preset (preset must be for a Carrara shader)

⦁ Camera(s) Preset

⦁ Light(s) Preset

⦁ Support for multiple UV sets (through Hierarchical Material(s) Presets and Material(s) Presets)

⦁ Native AutoFit functionality means:

⦁ Conversion of legacy parametric clothing to TriAxTM weigh mapped figures

⦁ Automatic Morph Projection quickly gives you the fit you need for your figure’s shape.

⦁ Automatic Weight Map Projection allows AutoFit clothing to bend and pose smoothly with the figure.

⦁ Morphs built into clothing are carried through the AutoFit process.

⦁ Improved Sequencer, Keyframing and Animation Tools

⦁ New keyboard shortcuts to:

⦁ Play/Stop animation

⦁ Advance the frame

⦁ Preview a frame

⦁ Key Frame Filters

⦁ Sample – Creates a key at every frame of the animation.

⦁ Smooth – Smooth out wild keys to get an even looking animation

⦁ Reduce – Programatically determine which keys are unecessary and eliminate them.

⦁ Graph Editor Box allows for fine tuning of animations

⦁ Easily adjust timing

⦁ Simple yet powerful manipulation of amplitude

⦁ Scale, and translate key frames along the Graph Editor.

⦁ Marquee selection of key frames for Graph Editor.

⦁ Smart Content and Daz Content Management System Integration.

Not all is perfect but then you're not paying $4000 for the software.

Assuming 10 years ago we were with version 5 you've now got -

Bullet Physics

Soft Body

Dynamic Hair

Paint

Non Linear Animation Clips

Mimic for Carrara ( plug in)

and

What’s New in Carrara 8.5? ( as listed by Daz)

⦁ Native DSON Importer means seamless integration of:

⦁ TriAxTMWeight Mapped figures (Genesis, G2F, G2M)

⦁ General Weight Mapped figures

⦁ Legacy Parametric Figures (4th Generation and earlier)

⦁ DSON presets

⦁ Scenes

⦁ Scene Subsets

⦁ Wearable(s) Preset

⦁ Character Preset

⦁ Properties Preset

⦁ Shaping Preset

⦁ Pose Preset

⦁ Hierarchical Material(s) Preset

⦁ Material(s) Preset

⦁ Shader Preset (preset must be for a Carrara shader)

⦁ Camera(s) Preset

⦁ Light(s) Preset

⦁ Support for multiple UV sets (through Hierarchical Material(s) Presets and Material(s) Presets)

⦁ Native AutoFit functionality means:

⦁ Conversion of legacy parametric clothing to TriAxTM weigh mapped figures

⦁ Automatic Morph Projection quickly gives you the fit you need for your figure’s shape.

⦁ Automatic Weight Map Projection allows AutoFit clothing to bend and pose smoothly with the figure.

⦁ Morphs built into clothing are carried through the AutoFit process.

⦁ Improved Sequencer, Keyframing and Animation Tools

⦁ New keyboard shortcuts to:

⦁ Play/Stop animation

⦁ Advance the frame

⦁ Preview a frame

⦁ Key Frame Filters

⦁ Sample – Creates a key at every frame of the animation.

⦁ Smooth – Smooth out wild keys to get an even looking animation

⦁ Reduce – Programatically determine which keys are unecessary and eliminate them.

⦁ Graph Editor Box allows for fine tuning of animations

⦁ Easily adjust timing

⦁ Simple yet powerful manipulation of amplitude

⦁ Scale, and translate key frames along the Graph Editor.

⦁ Marquee selection of key frames for Graph Editor.

⦁ Smart Content and Daz Content Management System Integration.

Not all is perfect but then you're not paying $4000 for the software.

All these "features" are only good if you want to keep suckling at the DAZ content teat and dropping your money down their toilet, plus all of these "features", like everything else in craprara (oops, typo), only works half-assed at best.

I can do all this plus a 1000 times more using Blender AND it costs NOTHING!

So where did you get the "$4000" figure? Let me guess, you actually paid $4000 for some piece of software? You must be one of the "if you don't pay through the nose for something, it's not as good" crowd. I imagine you would pay just about any amount to DAZ for the "priviledge" of being able to pose halfnaked girls in "fantasy armor".

I especially love the Marquee selection of key frames for Graph Editor and the Play/Stop animation "features"... seriously?

Only to a carrara user would this be considered worth paying for, any normal person would have thought you would able to "marquee select" anything at all after version 1.

Marquee selection IS NOT a feature, it's should have been in there already.

"Play/stop animation" - so not only can you "play" an animation, but you can "stop" it too?!?! OMG - way to go DAZ for setting the bar so much higher.

Any normal person would know how to post using a quote with out adding their post to the quote. Something that seems beyond your ability. If you can't manage something that simple on a forum how can you possibly use any comp graphics software.

For some one so in to Blender you seem to not exist on the forum or in the gallery. Do you actually do anything besides come here to run down carrara and it's users?

No? Then pick up that soap box and go gripe else ware. You're just spitting in the wind here, no one cares what you have to say.

Any normal person would know how to post using a quote with out adding their post to the quote. Something that seems beyond your ability. If you can't manage something that simple on a forum how can you possibly use any comp graphics software.

For some one so in to Blender you seem to not exist on the forum or in the gallery. Do you actually do anything besides come here to run down carrara and it's users?

No? Then pick up that soap box and go gripe else ware. You're just spitting in the wind here, no one cares what you have to say.

Somebody woke up on the wrong side of their empty wallet this morning... How is it my fault you cashrara (oops, typo) people keep taking it in the ass from DAZ? How's that "update", the "update" you've been complaining about for the last 2 years, working out for you?

You have the power to "stop and start animations" now. Don't let all that new carrara functionality you keep paying for go to your head, with great power comes great responsibility. Just think how many more halfnaked nuns you can pose now.

My wallet isn't empty, I don't shop at DAZ, I haven't paid for an update for 2 over years, not sure what delusional world you are getting your information from.

In fact you would be hard pressed to find any one on this forum guilty of what you are accusing us of. The carraraests here spend very little if anything at DAZ on any sort of a regular bases.{an issue of DAZ"s own creation}.

The only thing I can figure is you are a very frustrate petty individual that has been banned from the DAZ forum so you bring your impertinent petty arguments here, were no one really cares what you think. Then you get agitated when we ignore you or tell you your opinion means little more then a popcorn fart in a high wind.

And I'm working on quitting smoking so in a mood to argue

I managed yesterday on 3 cigs and 3 pieces of nicerett gum. Figure I'll get out of the cigaret habit then the nicotine.

My wallet isn't empty, I don't shop at DAZ, I haven't paid for an update for 2 over years, not sure what delusional world you are getting your information from.

In fact you would be hard pressed to find any one on this forum guilty of what you are accusing us of. The carraraests here spend very little if anything at DAZ on any sort of a regular bases.{an issue of DAZ"s own creation}.

The only thing I can figure is you are a very frustrate petty individual that has been banned from the DAZ forum so you bring your impertinent petty arguments here, were no one really cares what you think. Then you get agitated when we ignore you or tell you your opinion means little more then a popcorn fart in a high wind.

And I'm working on quitting smoking so in a mood to argue

I managed yesterday on 3 cigs and 3 pieces of nicerett gum. Figure I'll get out of the cigaret habit then the nicotine.

Want a cigarette?

i'm luving it so far.

my only complaint is sometimes it doesn't let me know it's busy, i'm clicking away not realizing it's chewing on a few clicks ago.

but i'm working on a dual core >.<

♥ My Gallery Albums ♥ My YT ♥ Party in the CarrarArtists Forum ♪♪♪ 10 years of Carrara forum ♥ My FreeStuff

I've stepped away from carrara for a while. Playing NFSW again. DAZ's last patch was a jank, destroyed any hope I had of DAZ every fixing C8.1 or there ever being a C9. And I just wont be janked around by DAZ anymore.

I might get back to carrara, but I am done with DAZ. That last patch that didn't actually fix anything just proves they don't want me as a customer.

I've stepped away from carrara for a while. Playing NFSW again. DAZ's last patch was a jank, destroyed any hope I had of DAZ every fixing C8.1 or there ever being a C9. And I just wont be janked around by DAZ anymore.

I might get back to carrara, but I am done with DAZ. That last patch that didn't actually fix anything just proves they don't want me as a customer.

WHAAAAT!!!! But you've got all those "new features", you can start AND stop animations now!! So everything I said has been spot on - have fun waiting....

Hey Titanic, sorry you're stuck with only Blender. That must suck.

Not that Blender's not a good app to have in your toolkit. Hey, it's free, I think everyone should have it (and I'm baffled why you seem to think that those of us who use Carrara magically somehow don't have access to it). But if I were trapped on a desert island and could only bring one software with me... yeah, Blender doesn't make the cut.

I feel a little sorry for you in this thread. It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about, for example you've been wrong on 70% or more of your negative claims about Carrara. It's like you're criticizing some other made-up software that you cooked up in a delusion. You were probably thinking that everyone reading your posts would marvel at how wise and witty you are. Yeah... not so much. Though I don't doubt you've gotten a few snickers, it's not that we're laughing with you, but more that we're laughing at you. :)

These ain't the Daz forums, bro. No one here is a 'Daz-defender'. And of all the people in the entire universe you decide to pick out for criticism as being too willing to spend money on DAZ and defend DAZ software with their every waking moment... you pick ManleyStanley!!! LOL! Sorry, man, you really don't know Manley at all, do you? And you have no clue how stupid it makes you sound when you single out Manley and try to cast him in the role of "Daz fanboy". It's hilarious to watch you flail :)

I'll give you a hint. Stanley was banned from the Daz forums because he was deemed too critical of Daz. He's like inverse of Dartanbeck. Oh wait, you wouldn't know who Dartanbeck is, because you don't really know anything about Carrara. If you did really know anything about Carrara then I'd assume you would already know who Manley is and what his position is, and that he's the ultimate exact opposite of the 'undyingly faithful daz fanboy' you seem to have mistaken him for.

Those of us who actually have and use Carrara already know what the real problems, drawbacks, and shortcomings of Carrara are, and it doesn't show much similarity to the weird critiques you've given so far.

And hey, good luck finding that mythical 'daz fanboy' you want to argue with, strawman-style. I highly doubt you'll find him on this forum. Maybe if you've got the intelligence to create an account and post over at the Daz forums you'll have more luck. Over here, you just sound like an idiot muttering to himself. But at least it's fun watch, so please feel free to carry on. I enjoy watching epic fails as much as the next person - so please, just keep being you, guy! :)

*Why Carrara Hair is Awesome: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsz65nEkq5U

Hey Titanic, sorry you're stuck with only Blender. That must suck.

Not that Blender's not a good app to have in your toolkit. Hey, it's free, I think everyone should have it (and I'm baffled why you seem to think that those of us who use Carrara magically somehow don't have access to it). But if I were trapped on a desert island and could only bring one software with me... yeah, Blender doesn't make the cut.

I feel a little sorry for you in this thread. It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about, for example you've been wrong on 70% or more of your negative claims about Carrara. It's like you're criticizing some other made-up software that you cooked up in a delusion. You were probably thinking that everyone reading your posts would marvel at how wise and witty you are. Yeah... not so much. Though I don't doubt you've gotten a few snickers, it's not that we're laughing with you, but more that we're laughing at you. :)

These ain't the Daz forums, bro. No one here is a 'Daz-defender'. And of all the people in the entire universe you decide to pick out for criticism as being too willing to spend money on DAZ and defend DAZ software with their every waking moment... you pick ManleyStanley!!! LOL! Sorry, man, you really don't know Manley at all, do you? And you have no clue how stupid it makes you sound when you single out Manley and try to cast him in the role of "Daz fanboy". It's hilarious to watch you flail :)

I'll give you a hint.  Stanley was banned from the Daz forums because he was deemed too critical of Daz. He's like inverse of Dartanbeck. Oh wait, you wouldn't know who Dartanbeck is, because you don't really know anything about Carrara. If you did really know anything about Carrara then I'd assume you would already know who Manley is and what his position is, and that he's the ultimate exact opposite of the 'undyingly faithful daz fanboy' you seem to have mistaken him for.

Those of us who actually have and use Carrara already know what the real problems, drawbacks, and shortcomings of Carrara are, and it doesn't show much similarity to the weird critiques you've given so far.

And hey, good luck finding that mythical 'daz fanboy' you want to argue with, strawman-style. I highly doubt you'll find him on this forum. Maybe if you've got the intelligence to create an account and post over at the Daz forums you'll have more luck. Over here, you just sound like an idiot muttering to himself. But at least it's fun watch, so please feel free to carry on. I enjoy watching epic fails as much as the next person - so please, just keep being you, guy! :)

*Why Carrara Hair is Awesome: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsz65nEkq5U

Heh heh. I popped in here to say the same thing, Jon, but you said it better than I would have. :) Oh, and I agree....Carrara hair is awesome! Love those tutorials. Does that make me a jonstark fanboy? Do you have t-shirts?

And,Titanic, I actually do use Blender, too along with 3dCoat, Silo, Marvelous Designer and whatever tool I might need to get the job done. We like Carrara, but we don't live in a 3D software vacuum. Unlike some.

:) Thanks, David. No t-shirts just yet, I don't even consider myself of 'intermediate' expertise just yet, but I got so jazzed about the discovery of how killer and easy Carrara hair is to work with, not to mention how realistic in animation, that I had to put it out there for others to see. I'm still playing and learning as I go. Just the other day I realized for the first time that we can increase the air dampening over and beyond the 100% setting. Not sure what use I'll make of it yet but seems like it could add some interesting possibilities.

Right now I'm 'hair crazy' and having a blast making different styles and animating, but hey I'm just learning this stuff on the fly and making it up as I go along :) I'm just glad if the vids weren't too boring and maybe added some cool new tricks to your toolkit. Don't know if you've been following the threads over at Daz about the animated dynamic clothing proof of concept that Stringtheory developed, very interesting stuff, seems some of the folks who are experimenting are getting very fast and accurate cloth sims, though I have yet to book some time to really dig in and play with it myself.

It's kind of crazy how much stuff Carrara can do, seems like every week someone else makes another discovery or unlocks another hidden feature of something no-one knew Carrara could do before. I often feel like Carrara is less of a predictable software well mapped out in manuals and more of a piece of alien technology we're all trying to reverse-engineer. Kind of fun to unlock the puzzle.

Carrara isn't my only app, it's just one of my favorites in the toolkit. Ironically Daz as a company is one of my least favorites to buy from, but eh who cares about Daz, they know nothing about Carrara anyway :)

WHAAAAT!!!! But you've got all those "new features", you can start AND stop animations now!! So everything I said has been spot on - have fun waiting....

I've said ad nauseum my issues are with DAZ, not carrara. Carrara is my be all end all CG app. I'm just frustrated DAZ has done nothing to retain me as a customer. I have a huge; 120 gig, selection of older content I can easily use in carrara. But since most new content or at least new content for the new dollies, doesn't work or work well in carrara there is no reason for me to shop at DAZ. I can get far more carrara compatible content from other sources. I stepped away from carrara to get over the frustration of trying to use the new DAZ content in it and change my mind set back to using the old content. I needed a brake. But DAZ has pretty well destroyed my hopes DAZ would ever do anything with what is the best CG app in it's price range.

So now is your time to put up or shut up titanic, link us to what YOU have done in Blender, or step away.

Folks, let's keep the conversations away from personal challenges and attacks. We're better then that.

WHAAAAT!!!! But you've got all those "new features", you can start AND stop animations now!! So everything I said has been spot on - have fun waiting....

I've said ad nauseum my issues are with DAZ, not carrara. Carrara is my be all end all CG app. I'm just frustrated DAZ has done nothing to retain me as a customer. I have a huge; 120 gig, selection of older content I can easily use in carrara. But since most new content or at least new content for the new dollies, doesn't work or work well in carrara there is no reason for me to shop at DAZ. I can get far more carrara compatible content from other sources. I stepped away from carrara to get over the frustration of trying to use the new DAZ content in it and change my mind set back to using the old content. I needed a brake. But DAZ has pretty well destroyed my hopes DAZ would ever do anything with what is the best CG app in it's price range.

So now is your time to put up or shut up titanic, link us to what YOU have done in Blender, or step away.

First let's see something BESIDES posed, naked DAZ figures in some of your work - ever do anything ORIGINAL? Any schmuck can pose SOMEBODY ELSE'S models...

Jon

You're right. Carrara is a GREAT piece of software.

If I really weren't so busy trying to keep my head above water, I would sit down and learn Carrara from the ground up.

As far as hair goes, I LOVE Carrara Hair (actually I think it was Stan who turned me onto how cool it renders.)

Unfortunately, sometimes the hair goes crazy (for me at least) in some animations (and a few stills).

I still love Carrara hair.

Titanic

I was going to respond to you in detail, but Jon said, basically most of what I wanted to say.

I have Cinema4D as well as Carrara. I LOVE my Carrara.

Everyone here is pretty clear and realistic about what issues exist for Carrara and what our own personal problems with the software.

I was almost banned and had a number of posts removed, so I'm no Daz fanboy.

I have had a few cash flow problems as of late, so I haven't spent much money period (and none at Daz since the PA sale).

A lot of us just want Genesis and duf format to work as promised in Carrara.

I want the clothes to fit and things to load up right.

Vicky 1,2,3, & 4's clothes fit without all kinds of fuss.

Most OBJ object load up right. Why not DUF?

I would be first in queue for some of Daz's G2F products. Those women are killer.

But for me, this stuff HAS to work, I work professionally and I can't waste a lot of time trying to mess about.

Anyway Titanic, please stop picking fights because the fanboys aren't on this site.

We're just regular people who want our software to work and to get the updates we paid for.

Best of luck!

First let's see something BESIDES posed, naked DAZ figures in some of your work - ever do anything ORIGINAL? Any schmuck can pose SOMEBODY ELSE'S models...

I'll take that as a "no, I have done nothing in Blender".

First let's see something BESIDES posed, naked DAZ figures in some of your work - ever do anything ORIGINAL? Any schmuck can pose SOMEBODY ELSE'S models...

I'll take that as a "no, I have done nothing in Blender".

Heh, heh.

Carrara needs a lot more or better features for modelling. If you compare it overall to other apps, it holds up real well for the price, but if you really want something for more than rendering Poser stuff, then you find it is lacking in some really core features, like modelling tools. Sure, you can model things in it, but it's not fun, and compared to something like Blender, it would take forever to model high poly objects in Carrara. Carrara is cool, and can be fun, but for doing some real work, and creating scenes from scratch, with all your own models, it's kind of outdated. Hey, that's just being honest. I'm not trying to bash it, just being realistic.

I don't see many people creating really high quality models using only Carrara. At least not on average that doesn't happen, and there's good reason for that. Sure, some people probably do create some fantastic realistic models with it, but it's a rarity. Hey, people actually still use Bryce for modelling some far out high detail models too, but it takes them months.

Nowadays, I'm trying to learn to model things myself, and that's really where I had to move away from Carrara quickly. I wish I didn't have to! And that's what I find wrong with Carrara. It's become more or less another render engine for Poser stuff, instead of a complete 3D package at an affordable level.

FINALLY! Someone who gets it...

FINALLY! Someone who gets it...

Well, thanks. I think. Personally, I don't agree with the insults I read in this thread (a lot of them came from you, but some from others), but I do agree with the fact that Carrara has gone from a potentially outstanding general 3d application into what now feels like another Daz or Poser render agent. Since I don't do animation, I don't care where I render my Poser stuff. There's plenty of great engines out there I can just export as OBJ. When you think about it, Poser is the easiest way to pose the figures anyway (or daz studio), then as long as you don't need to animate, just export as OBJ to somewhere and render. Sure you need to configure materials and textures, but once you set up a good skin material in your render engine of choice, you can just save it and reuse it. It's not that time consuming. So all this "integration" to me is a waste of resources, and actually pushed me away from Carrara a while ago. Again, not bashing the software, just being honest.

FINALLY! Someone who gets it...

Well, thanks. I think. Personally, I don't agree with the insults I read in this thread (a lot of them came from you, but some from others), but I do agree with the fact that Carrara has gone from a potentially outstanding general 3d application into what now feels like another Daz or Poser render agent. Since I don't do animation, I don't care where I render my Poser stuff. There's plenty of great engines out there I can just export as OBJ. When you think about it, Poser is the easiest way to pose the figures anyway (or daz studio), then as long as you don't need to animate, just export as OBJ to somewhere and render. Sure you need to configure materials and textures, but once you set up a good skin material in your render engine of choice, you can just save it and reuse it. It's not that time consuming. So all this "integration" to me is a waste of resources, and actually pushed me away from Carrara a while ago. Again, not bashing the software, just being honest.

That is where you are missing out. I think you are confusing "honest" with not knowing how to properly use the software.

Part of the reason I started using carrara is I was fed up with going through 3 different apps to get to a final render.

And the reason I am so hacked off at DAZ is because how badly they blundered C8.5, and have done nothing to fix it. I have no issues with carrara in and of it's self.

Please, can we let we let this thread die a peaceful death due to lack of attention? "All sound and fury, signifying nothing.", I believe the quote goes from Billy Shakespeare.

Images are nice.

Carrara needs a lot more or better features for modelling. If you compare it overall to other apps, it holds up real well for the price, but if you really want something for more than rendering Poser stuff, then you find it is lacking in some really core features, like modelling tools. Sure, you can model things in it, but it's not fun, and compared to something like Blender, it would take forever to model high poly objects in Carrara. Carrara is cool, and can be fun, but for doing some real work, and creating scenes from scratch, with all your own models, it's kind of outdated. Hey, that's just being honest. I'm not trying to bash it, just being realistic.

I don't see many people creating really high quality models using only Carrara. At least not on average that doesn't happen, and there's good reason for that. Sure, some people probably do create some fantastic realistic models with it, but it's a rarity. Hey, people actually still use Bryce for modelling some far out high detail models too, but it takes them months.

While there are some who use Carrara this way (Kixum and Mike Moir spring to mind) I don't generally think Carrara is considered by really anyone as the absolute GoTo solution for the 'awesome vertex modeler' category. It's never been billed that way and I have serious doubt anyone ever bought Carrara solely as a modeler or with the expectation of getting Modo or C4D or 3ds level of modeling features.

But there is modeling and then there is modeling. If my goal is that I need a precise complex model of something to machine tolerances and I need an app solely for modeling this one thing, which I can then convert into an .obj or something to be used in any other app, well then sure there are better apps for that purpose.

On the other hand, if you're in the middle of building a scene for rendering and you suddenly think, 'man I sure wish I had a wall over there with an doorway and some windows and some windowboxes with flowers, and some custom built trees' etc, then Carrara is perfect for this sort of thing without having to save the work, close down your app, start up another app, model from scratch, import into your original app, restart the scene you're work on, resize and rescale, and place, etc. Eh, why slow down the workflow when it's as easy as slapping in a vertex object, hop into the modeling room for a sec, then back to the scene, ready to go? The fact that this kind of thing can be done quickly and seamlessly in on app makes Carrara by default superior to any other modelling app (no matter how excellent the other modeler is in features that Carrara doesn't have) for quick and efficient workflow.

Also not to be underestimated is the breadth and number of Carrara modelers that are built in. Leaving aside plugins like Architools for the quick construction of buildings and stuff like that, we have a ton of different modelers built in. I think most people only think of the Vertex modeler, but there's the Spline modeler, and the Metaball modeler, modelers for Plants, Terrains, Clouds, Fire, Water, Particles, Text, Hair, to mention just a very few. Are all of these different modelers the very best modelers of their type anywhere in the industry? Of course not, but surprisingly some of them actually are (I'm thinking at the moment of the hair modeler which is simply outstanding for any hobbyist-priced software and fully the equivalent to what can be produced with pro-level priced apps).

But who buys Carrara just as a modeler? No-one, except maybe Titanic401's fictitious and non-existent caricature of a Carrara fanboy strawman (which means no one). The reasons for going with Carrara are multiple, but if I had to guess I would say it's ability to use Poser and Daz characters natively probably ranks high on the list. The huge number of modelers is likely much lower on the list, and a side-benefit, for most (not all) Carrara users.

I would never ever argue with anyone that Carrara has the greatest and most feature intense vertex modeler on the planet.

By the same token, I think it would insanely difficult to argue that Carrara's multiple modeling abilities aren't incredibly useful within the context of a larger scene construction and workflow.

I know you mentioned it being easier to pose daz content in Poser or Studio (which I very much disagree with, but this is a subjective opinion only; for me Carrara is waaaay easier to pose characters with), and then exporting as .obj to render in other apps, I do this myself from Carrara, because I have a great love for TheaRender, and until such time as someone invents a plugin for Thea that's what I have to do. But let's not pretend there isn't a lot of time and trouble involved in this process, it certainly isn't an efficient workflow, and nowadays if I need something rendered in an unbiased engine quickly and correctly, I use the Octane for Carrara plugin so I don't have to go to the trouble. Sure Thea renders a bit faster than Octane, and I'm not as in love with Octane for it's rendering, but it's so close the differences between the 2 are negligable, and again with the plugin it's a one click solution within the same application. That's a huge benefit to me in time savings, and I know I'm not alone in preferring the all in one solution in this way. Again, not trying to bash whatever your favorite software or workflow is, just being honest.

In the realm of 'a moving picture is worth 1000 words' Here's a 10 second scene I was able to build and animate - extremely quickly - all in Carrara, and even though this was just a test animation for dynamic cloth in Carrara, I think it kind of illustrates my above point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIAp6vysYZE&feature=youtu.be

First off, I'm using V4, with morphs, and a conforming top (from V4 basicwear). Carrara can use all this natively and with no trouble (as well as Genesis and Genesis2, and other poser and daz figures). There are other softwares that can do this, Poser and Studio and in some senses Vue, and maybe C4D with interposer pro. Carrara is not unique in this sense, but the list is actually pretty small, and some will scoff at using premade content, I'll just scoff right back at those who don't believe in saving valuable time using high-quality premade content when it can be used. :)

Next, it's animated, because Carrara has a very robust set of animation features. As I've learned watching SciFiFunk's tutorials, Carrara's NLA functions alone, and the fact you can have more than 10 NLA tracks you can mix and match, are extremely valuable in animating. I'm no animator, but I'm learning, and NLA is just one of the many many animation tools Carrara has built in. Here I've gone in the 1st 3 seconds from a T pose to a static standing pose, and then started an aniblock for V4 that I imported in. I forgot to put in a Mimic Pro track for blinking and breathing and lip synching such, but I could have done that too and mixed it in no problems. Carrara can import and use BVH, Aniblocks, Mimic Pro, Poser animations, etc. Again the list of applications that can do this is limited.

Next, the dynamic cloth. I modeled this in the vertex room starting with a simple vertex cylinder, tesellating it, cutting out the top and bottom to make it a tube. Could I have modelled this in another modeling software? Sure, but why, when I can do it all in Carrara without ever leaving the application.

And then I went into the assembly room and modeled there, on top of the V4 character I was attaching the cloth to. Hmmm, not sure anywhere other than Carrara could I have done that...

I ran the cloth simulation, it's super fast and runs nearly in real time. There are other dynamic cloth solutions, but again, I'd have to have exported, imported, tried to match it up, etc. I can't speak to Marvelous Designer because I've never used it, but Carrara's cloth sim runs in real time, and much faster than for example Poser's cloth sim.

I then modelled the hair in Carrara's hair room. Took me all of 3 minutes to put the hair together, then the hair sim was incredibly fast too, again nearly real-time. Also there is nothing in the hobbyist world that even comes close to the realism of Carrara dynamic hair. It's fully on part with pro level software.

Hit render button, done.

Yes, this is low quality in render settings, simply because it was a test and didn't matter and that I wanted a quick animation render (and it was very quick to render, and now I can change/correct/refine my cloth settings next time to zero in on exactly the look I want). But the point is, all of this was done - very quickly and easily - with Carrara, and I no other software that I know of can do all of this together in one app (and this doesn't even scratch the surface of what Carrara can do, all by it's lonesome).

Hi Daniel (Jonstark)!
Your simulation is impressive, I saw only once a so good performance (by PhilW).
I believe that there would not be to much work for DAZ to improve this feature, but they are obsessed too much by the evolution of DS and not of Carrara.
You speak about comparisons with MD and Poser, it should be said that these softwares are a lot more advanced for simulations and the results are impeccable.
Unfortunately, one cannot export the hair since Poser (I do not think so).
To summarize, I can say that you gave me again confidence in simulations of Carrara (clothing and hair), which it would be nice, it is that you carry out tutos in .PDF to be able to use your experiments on the same computer. (my work computer never goes on Internet).
Thank you to share your experiments !

Hi DUDU, in case you missed it, there's the thread over at the daz forums where a bunch of us are playing around with getting dynamic cloth simulation in Carrara:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/49954/

Stringtheory is the one who came up with the concept, and it seems to work, really well and really fast, though we're still trying to find the right settings for different types of cloth behavior, all the experiments and settings are in that thread. Stringtheory did mention he would put together a tutorial on this, but I don't know when he'll have the time to do it. I would put up a tutorial myself (even though none of it is my idea, and I would give full credit to Stringtheory, Marcus Severus, Diomede and the others since they really pioneered this approach and I'm just trying to refine it :) ) but since we haven't zeroed in on exactly the right settings to use for different types of cloth this is still in the experimental stage right now, and more testing needs to be done.

"But the point is, all of this was done - very quickly and easily - with Carrara, and I no other software that I know of can do all of this together in one app (and this doesn't even scratch the surface of what Carrara can do, all by it's lonesome)."

Jon, all of what you mentioned there can be done in Blender, Maya, 3dsmax, to name a few. The 3dsmax has a cloth engine built in which is a lot like Marvelous Designer in what it can do, which I found amazing. I only played with the trial version, but wow. If you take Poser content out of the equasion, then Blender can do all of it too. Blender's hair can render just as realistic, if not moreso, because of more complex lighting and rending. The Cycles hair is incredible, and looks like a photo when rendered, just as you mentioned in Carrara. Of course, the Poser application is the only thing Carrara has that these others do not, but that's kinda my point. I don't really care about Poser integration, and feel so much more effort could be invested into other features, where Carrara clearly fell behind over the years.

I was about to express surprise to learn that Maya, 3ds, etc could use daz content natively, since that's rather a large component of what I mentioned went into that little test sample, but then reading to the end of your paragraph and sounds like I'm not wrong about that and they cannot use Poser/daz content natively (please correct me if I'm wrong). I realize you personally don't care about poser/daz integration and that's cool beans. Whatever works for your particular pipeline and is the best for you personally, it's all good. :)

But at the same time, for a general discussion of what's going to be useful to the market at large, having a huge premade library of high quality and ready-made content ready to go and work natively in your preferred application is (without question) a tremendous benefit. There may be certain situations where it makes logical sense to build every model in the scene from scratch, but for most of us that's a huge and unnecessary task that will kill a lot of project time that could be better spent getting to the final render and composition. For myself I don't have the skills in modeling, or the patience and love of modeling to do that, and would consider it an insurmountable obstacle/time killer if I were forced into that position in using an app that can't make use of the huge existing library of poser/daz content that is already ready to go. Carrara can do this, and the list of other apps that can dot this is pretty small, and this gives great value to what Carrara can do (to the objective market in general, not you specifically). I wouldn't own and use Carrara if it couldn't use the daz/poser content natively, for example.

Also I would point out that by bringing Maya and 3DS into the discussion you're now comparing a $65 application (Carrara) with apps that cost thousands of dollars. The fact that Carrara can stand up to the comparison at all with such more highly priced software is astounding. Carrara is certainly not aimed at the same market segment as those who have gigantic blockbuster budgets and need a full production studio with software to match.

Blender is definitely better at some things than Carrara, but fortunately it's free, so anyone can integrate into it into their toolkit. I would say it's decidedly better at fluid simulation, for one example. Blender hair is pretty good for stills, but I haven't seen anyone using it for animations where it looked realistic in the way it draped and behaved on a human. That may simply be user error, or that no one has yet 'broken the code', so not a value judgment on Blender's hair system itself, but Carrara hair sim is nearly realtime, incredibly fast, and realism-wise is on par with programs that cost thousands of dollars. I think you mentioned before you yourself are not into animation but stills, so fair enough you probably can get just as realistic looking hair from Blender, but objectively speaking for the broader audience, if Carrara can do more realistic hair sims more quickly than Blender and give realistic animations quickly, then even if it's a 'dead heat' to how realistic the hair looks in still renders I think anyone would agree that's an edge to Carrara.

At some point someone somewhere will probably add to Blender the ability to use the daz/poser content natively. If this happens, it will undoubtedly change the game and the current landscape, and may mean that Blender will eventually become the the more popular all-in-one solution that it certainly can be. But at present, I'm not aware of any other program that can do the whole of what I did in that simple test animation, quickly and efficiently.

Jon, you make some excellent points and arguments. However, I can give you some examples of Blender hair being used in animation if you're interested. Here's some links:

Blender hair dynamics test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzGwkQRpOmQ

Styling Blender Hair in for Cycles render:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkaG1ZUf1B4

Styling and rendering long hair with Blender Cycles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVJyGzPJIeQ

For examples of Blender hair being used in real production, you can research some of the Blender animation projects, like Sintel:

http://www.blender.org/features/projects/

Blender Hair Dynamics with Collision test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9v1IHo1R1o

There are many many more examples of it in animation too. Plus, with the Cycles renderer, it's become ultra realistic, as Cycles has special nodes to render hair that give it incredible subsurface effects and realism.

Also, the movie Big Buck Bunny used dynamic hair in older versions of Blender extensively. That was a full-length feature film, rendered with Blender Internal engine. The realism of dynamic hair has come a long way since that feature film, with Cycles hair rendering. Blender can claim it's hair was used in a real studio production (Sintel and Big Buck Bunny), which so far is something Carrara hair can not claim, and does make a huge difference in proof of concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpg9yizPP_g

Finally, here's a thread showing some hair render tests, using 90,000+ strands, and curly, complex stylings on the Sintel character. Not ultra realistic, but about as good as the ones I've seen in any Carrara tests, except using full GI lighting too, with inter-strand shadowing. Of course, it's capable of animation too, as you see in some of the other example vids.

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?289219-Sintel-hair-render-test

I think it's slightly misleading to suggest Blender can't do the same or better as Carrara with hair for animation, because the evidence is all over the place if you know where to look.

I think it's GREAT that Carrara has dynamic hair as it does. I think it's even better that you and others are tutoring people on how to use it properly. But there ARE other alternatives to great animated hair out there, especially in Blender, which cost the user nothing at all to use, and definitely competes with all the major production applications, like Maya or 3dsmax. Again, you have me beat in the fact that Poser content is not natively supported. You are correct there, and if that is important to the user, then Carrara is the way to go. But let's not suggest that it isn't available anywhere else, at no cost.

Maya and 3dsmax do not support Poser natively. You are again correct with that assumption.

Peace and love,

David.

Thanks David, actually I had seen all of those clips before and more besides (back when I went out scouring youtube for examples of Blender hair in animation) and those same clips are exactly what I based my prior opinion on. It's funny how we can both look at the same clips and come to such different opinions, but that's the nature of subjectivity I suppose. :) Apples to apples, only 2 of those links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzGwkQRpOmQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9v1IHo1R1o

Are actual animations that someone (like me) probably whipped up in Blender on their own, trying to test settings and get a realistic human hair behaving with a character moving. They aren't horrible, and I can see there might be room for potential, but compare it with one of my first tests with Carrara:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsz65nEkq5U

I'm not an expert or a genius (far from it), if anything I'm kind of an idiot, and if a stumbling newbie to dynamic hair (I've played with Carrara for several years now but never ever animated dynamic hair until about 3 weeks ago) can come up with something like that off the bat, then I think that speaks to how easy/quick it is to get a good simulation of human-style dynamic hair in Carrara.

I scoured youtube looking for other users of Blender and their test sequences and couldn't find anything that much better than the first 2 clips you posted. My first thought is either there's some sort of limitation in the dynamics of Blender that makes realistic human hair very difficult, or (perhaps much more likely) users just haven't yet figured out the most realistic settings to use. You know what though? I also did youtube searches on 3ds, Modo, Maya, Lightwave, Houdini and C4D. Found some pretty good ones for C4d and Lightwave, and a few that were decent for Maya, but I also found lots of ones that were not so great to very poor, even with the big name/price software.

I had watched the other clips you posted too, but most are tutorials on how to create realistic hairstyles in Blender and don't include any particular animations of it reacting to dynamic forces (I watched them about 2 weeks ago when I was thinking 'it can't be this easy' after my first experiments with Carrara hair, and I was looking around to see what else was out there). The other links were for a cartoon-stylized short (Big Buck Bunny) which has no human style hair (though I do love the movie, don't get me wrong) and Sintel, which is in a category of it's own.

Now as fur and grass, Blender hair looks and behaves great in animations (as in Big Buck Bunny), and obviously neither Big Buck nor Sintel were aiming at doing a realistic style of hair, so even though they had a big budget and large production team for Sintel, just because it doesn't look like realistic human hair doesn't mean there's anything intrinsically inferior about Blender's hair sim (it's not supposed to look realistic in that show, but instead is supposed to match the stylization of the rest of characters in Sintel) and of all the animations I've seen Sintel is the one where it looks like the dynamics of the way it moves in reaction to scene forces (wind, character movement) that there could indeed be a good dynamic hair physics engine buried deep down (though it often looks more like cloth movement to my eye than strand movement, but leaving that aside). On the other hand, it's very difficult to know when you're talking about a production with a big team working together about what went into it, so I'll just reserve judgment altogether, except to say I don't think anyone should hold it's lack of hair realism against it, as that was never the point and would have looked out of place anyway.

My general opinion is that it could be possible that Blender may be able to produce realistic dynamic human hair in animation, but I don't think the users have 'cracked the code' yet of what settings to use to make that happen. I should never say 'can't be done' because I've seen that label misapplied too many times to other software (as for example it often is with Carrara).

Blender has Cycles, an outstanding unbiased render engine. I'm even more jealous that there is a plugin for TheaRender, my personal absolute favorite unbiased renderer of all time. Currently if I want to render in Thea I have to export to .obj and import into Thea, retexturing once it's there. I would kill for a plugin for Carrara to Thea but sadly it doesn't exist yet. In fact, if Blender suddenly got native daz/poser support tomorrow, that along might enough to make me flip over to making Blender my goto app, even though I find the UI in Carrara waaaay waaay more easy and natural to use (but then again I'm already used to Carrara and comfortable with it's UI).

On the other hand, Carrara does have plugins for Lux (Luxus and now Luxcore), and Octane, so it's not like there aren't unbiased render options with Carrara too. Nowadays nearly everything has unbiased render options. Iclone even has Indigo, for example. Not sure if Vue has any... but I'm wandering from the topic.

I sometimes wonder if I could go back in time to when I started dabbling with this hobby, would I tell myself to go with Carrara? I certainly am no fan of Daz, and have 0% faith in their development. I do think there will be a Carrara 9, but I'm just about certain it will all be fixes to use Genesis2 content more easily and nothing much more substantial than that. But for what I need, I think Carrara as it is does just about everything already, so even though there's little to no real development, I'm still good with Carrara as is, and I'd probably tell my past self 'go for Carrara, you won't be unhappy'.

Although if Blender got native use of daz/poser stuff, I just might have to flip to using it as my main app instead of simply an app that I use for a few things when needed. Oh how I wish there were a Thea plugin for Carrara. I might have to study up on programming languages and create it myself (after all, I once slept in a holiday inn express :) )

Forum: Carrara

Subject: Is there something wrong with Carrara?