I know this might not be that 100% correct forum for this discussion but it affects poser users. This is something that Rpublishing proably should have started looking at when G2 came out. Yes we got DSON to help, but G3 is basically anti-poser and who knows if DAZ cares anymore. Now I'm not being anti-daz in this post, this is just a practical matter that poser users need addressed.

Why hasn't Rpublishing bit the bullet and have a new female character (and male I suppose) made for sale just so poser users can use it going forward. Don't get me wrong, I love V4. V4 has a lot of products and support. The problem is, as G3 gets more popular, the vendors will turn their attention to G3 items. That means declining sales from poser users because as the vendors start making more and more G3 stuff, there's less stuff for poser. I think it's fair to say that V4 is a pretty mature and crowded market. While that means she's got a ton of options, daz users don't need to get her as G2/G3 has morphs for that. They've got stuff to buy going forward but we might not. As a poser user, if I can't buy anything that'll work in my rendering software, my desire to buy stuff is going to go down.

That's where Rpublishing needs to come in if they have any business sense at all.

We need a new poser character that can compliment or replace V4 for poser users. DAZ has their own in house software and it's pretty clear SM doesn't really care about working with them. For the moment, DAZ is basically moving on past poser users. That is why we need this.

What would this character need?

A nice face that looks good unmorphed, is easy to work with, and has a big enough poly count as the face is important.
A body that bends nice and has the right polycount in the right places. Also it needs to be able to be morphed into realistic AND fantasy looks (pinup and anime).
No unnecessary mat zones (ie no upper torso and nipple and lower torso and 3 zones for the arms and legs).
While I'm thinking about it, pay one of the mat room gurus to make a great skin shader for her.
Morphs ++ functionality in the base character. Without this functionality, a new character isn't going to work.
Plenty of day 1 vendor support to start things up. I'm talking about 5-6 hair styles (one long and down, one shorter maybe bob style, and one pony tail at least). Make sure it has 5-8 characters you can buy. Maybe 10 clothing options (one or two needs to be a type of bikini, some good shoes, 2-5 fantasy styles, and a fetish outfit or three like a nurse, maid, office worker, sailor outfit.) A pose pack or two will be necessary. Maybe a few fantasy options like nice wings (angel, fairy), cat girl, mermaid stuff, and that sort of thing. A few dynamic clothings as well.
Breast and butt morph packages for sale on day one. Let's not lie about this. Boobs and booty are big sellers. If there are a few good boob packages on day one (or at least within the first month) this character well sell.
If it can compliment v4's abilities but is designed to make full use of poser's capabilities, that would be great.

9. Have a vendor make a program that'll let V4's clothing (and maybe characters if possible) work on the new figure. If a character can't be imported, maybe come up with a program that'll encourage vendors to remake their old V4 characters on the new figure (let's say they keep 65% of the sale instead of 50% or whatever). Or have an upgrade sale price for people who bought the original skin here at rendo. Something to encourage people and vendors to make the switch.

Let prime members buy the character one week or two before the full release or at least let some of the more popular artists get a head start on making beautiful renders with the character. That'd help sell her if I can click on a gallery and see that she looks great.

Renderosity needs to remember it is a business and while making this character will be an expense, it will earn the store money in the long run. DAZ has moved on from poser users, I think it's past time one of the major sites that sells stuff to poser users needs to recognize this. If you guys can pull this off, it's in your interest in the long run. Also, what's the point of Rpulishing if you guys aren't willing to actually publish something that could make a splash in the market for years to come.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

In before a thousand individual itch scratches which prioritize v4 compatibility to the point of nerfing the figure.

The fig ought to leverage current Poser's rigging capabilities to the max. Sophisticated weight mapping at the least.
It should avoid bizarre geometrical subdivisions. No, you are not smarter than everyone else.
The fig needs to be sculpted by someone professional whose understanding of anatomy is not intermediate level.
The dials that Morphs++ brought to V4 should have been sold with it because they are necessary for most of our applications. That should be a baseline for a new figure instead of expecting people to buy it as though a choice were involved.
No hideous grins. Stop that.
Upon release, a bundle that includes basic contemporary clothing (dress shirt, dress, pants, skirt, bra/panties, catsuit), a few texture maps and shoes THAT AREN'T HIGH HEELS FOR PETE'S SAKE, a magnet or pose for fitting existing hair sets to this new fig. A secondary AT RELEASE TIME ethnic package that has texture maps.
Stop using INJ poses to do everything just because you can. MAT exists and we're not catering to programs that don't support it.
A sane UV mapping scheme but that ought to be obvious.
The tear material in v4 does something nothing else can. Steal that idea and don't try to rethink it because I guarantee your better idea isn't.
Nothing on the figure itself as a conforming prop that aren't genitals.
Nostrils that truly make glow impossible unless Cycles somehow fixes that.
Overlay textures for a few closeup areas like brows and nipples that come in at cropped higher res scales and are positioned using UV settings with material nodes to blend them in.
A specular map that's really based off of sweat gland distribution and not just an exported highlight layer.
Feet with jointed digits. Radical, I know.

Have a couple of good merchant resource skin texture maps available right away. Preferably one that can be used for freebies.

Have it beta tested extensively. Maybe even gamma tested. It seems the community is very unforgiving about issues in new figures if there are any flaws, even if the problem is fixed quickly, it still goes suffers.

No baked in specular or reflections. We haven't needed them in a decade. Or at least an option for without, in case someone wants to fake it for a quick render.

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Renderosity needs to remember it is a business and while making this character will be an expense, it will earn the store money in the long run.

They already earning money now selling multi figure content. So why do they need their own figure if they already making money just selling content, be it for Daz only, Poser only or both? This whole pitch makes no sense. You asking them to invest in a venture that might not bear any fruit. Why would they when the current model is working for them? Also it is not their responsibility to look after Poser users. That responsibility belongs to SM. They need to make a figure, and if it is good enough, vendors will support it and if that supporting content is sold here, Rendo will get their cut of the sales. I don't see why Rendo has to bail them out and do the heavy lifting for them by providing this figure. Would be a different story if this was a Poser only store and the content submitted was slowing down and their revenue was only coming from Poser support. But if they making money off Daz content as well, I don't see why they need to change their business model. Money is Money, doesn't matter where it comes from, be it for this figure or that figure. This is a store, not a Poser store, a store, and if the content is selling, then it's business as usual. Why do you think they selling Genesis content themselves? Because it sells. You see the same thing at RDNA. Isn't that the primary function of a store? To support what sells?

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I agree with Zev on why Rpublishing most likely wont make a figure. The business model in place now works, investing heavily in what might not just does not make good business sense.

As far as who should make one, it does not really matter who makes it. The reason I say that is because we have literally hundreds of Figures to use in Poser.

The difference is what the Users choose to use and support. Poser has always had Figures, it is not their fault people chose to stick to another one. Just about every version has had new Figures.

When a new Figure does come out and starts to take off, it will have everything to do with the Users. They will either choose to support it, or not. To date, "not" has ruled...

No figure will ever "replace" V4, that is not going to happen. Another one could build its way up to that, but to date none have come anywhere close due to the Users choices. Many claim to want a new Figure. But when one does come out it usually fades away because the majority of users didn't really want a new one.

It is a sizable investment to build a Runtime for a Figure. Not every user is prepared to do that.

Building a figure for the minority is why most people don't build them. The ones that know everything about what a new figure should have, most likely never have.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

The difference is what the Users choose to use and support. Poser has always had Figures, it is not their fault people chose to stick to another one. Just about every version has had new Figures. When a new Figure does come out and starts to take off, it will have everything to do with the Users. They will either choose to support

Sorry, but this is simply not true. Figure acceptance STARTS with the vendors, not the customers. There's only ONE reason V4 has maintained her supremacy so far - vendors REFUSE to give her up.

USERS can't affect a thing when there are no products produced to do so with.

And, now, at RO, you can just forget ANY figures but Genesis. For once, the V4 vendors are getting a taste of what it's like to be buried by page after page after page after page of another figure consuming the marketplace.

Vendors brought this on themselves by refusing to accept that the V4 market was saturated and moving on to something better.

So here we are.

There's nothing that prevents any artist or team from creating and marketing their own figures, for whatever program they want it to work in. If the quality is there, then there will be a customer base for it.

It's my understanding that the only real issue currently preventing G3 from functioning in Poser is the dual quaternion rigging. This has become an industry standard form of rigging/skinning, (Maya, Max, etc), so it's not something that DAZ has come up with on their own, the way it was with G1 and 2. It's up to Poser's developers to adapt to that rigging if they want their user's content to be cross-platform compatible, and for other developer's content to function in Poser.

As for 'Rosity creating their own figure, that was already tried about 10 years ago and didn't work out very well, for various reasons. But it would be interesting to see if they're up to attempting it again though. It might be a good idea. And there's no reason they couldn't develop their own figure as a sort of mascot for the site, and continue selling content for other figures. With proper scripting, any content can be adapted to any figure.

Hasn't RDNA created at least a few of their own figures in the past? Or at least heavily supported figures that are exclusive to their site. I thought they were involved in Michelle's development, and more recently the Star figure.

As for vendor vs customer support on new figures, it's really more of a 50-50 split. Customers can't buy content that vendors don't make, but if enough of them don't buy the content that vendors do make for a figure, then it doesn't give them much motivation to make more content for that figure. In the end, vendors are in it for the money and are going to make content for the figures that sell the most. So really, it all comes back around to the figure's creator being responsible - at least in the beginning - for producing the bulk of content for his/her/their figure, if they want that figure to keep going. At this point, any figure that isn't compatible with a lot of the existing content is going to struggle in support for the first while. If you make a figure you have to be willing to invest a lot of effort into supporting it yourself, with quality content that people want to use.

if someone could show a bit of love and support for Alyson, Sidney, Simon, Jessie or James or any of the other SM G2 figures.

if you have poser then you have those figures.

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

I agree 1000% to what Winterclaw said.

Fabi @FKDesign

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Don't tell me that I am wrong if I say I saw pointed ears this morning, in my mirror... they are there.

Nice idea, I do hope they look at the last few figures that have been added to the Poser mix though, none of their launches suggests it will be a roaring success.

The other possible fly in the ointment is what SM are going to do, if they do include dual quaternion rigging will the vast majority of Poser users move to G3 in preference to any new figure?

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

The other possible fly in the ointment is what SM are going to do, if they do include dual quaternion rigging will the vast majority of Poser users move to G3 in preference to any new figure?

Exactly. If Rendo produced a new figure, SM could sink it by adding support for G3 in future poser versions. Anyway, I imagine the sad tale of Renda is still fresh in Rendo's minds...

"Why hasn't Rpublishing bit the bullet and have a new female character (and male I suppose) made for sale just so poser users can use it going forward. "

... ... ...Who? Seriously asking. I feel out of the loop - granted, I have been stuck in a cave the last year and a half. Who is Rpublishing?

... ... ...Who? Seriously asking. I feel out of the loop - granted, I have been stuck in a cave the last year and a half. Who is Rpublishing?

RPublishing is Renderosity's content artist/team. They've been around for quite a while. I'm not sure "who" the artist(s) name is/are behind it. I think some of their content is bought outright from other artists. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?vendor=RPublishing

"It's my understanding that the only real issue currently preventing G3 from functioning in Poser is the dual quaternion rigging. "

Hi IMHO this is a grossly over simplified assessment of the genesis to poser compatibility issue.

when I installed the latest DS on my new win7 PC several months ago I basicly ignored those default genesis figures and simply added my old poser six runtime I had copied over from my Mac book.

But after a few months of slowly incorporating genesis into my Character animation work flow and rendering them in Cinema4D via MDD/obj I realized what the "big deal" is actually all about and have basicaly declared the previous millenium figures( including V4) obsolete and they likely will not be used again by myself after this current animated film project.

If its just a matter of getting the latest "Vicky" version, posable&dressable into poser that is already possible now via many of the various methods including DSON and joepublic's techniques even for "V7" it seems

What has me frankly impressed is the way functionality& morphs are just available to the genesis figures automaticly in the background after installing them into DS itself.

Gone are the bad old days of uber bloated 300 megV4/M4 Cr2's as all of the Figure morphing Data is driven by the program itself not the figure. persay

The switchable UV sets that allow for using your favorite M4 V4 textures made the transition much less "disruptive" to say nothing of the auto fit feature that allows usage of most legacy clothing and hair.

I could go on but my only point is this:

Any poser based solution that does not function with genesis EXACTLY the way that Daz studio functions with the figure, will be nothing more than a dodgey,tenuous "hack".

And even then will forever be easily subject to being broken by the next SR poser update or point version DS update.

Resulting in endless frustration for those who keep foolishly placing their hopes in such a half measures.

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We want Renda! Bring back Renda! We want Renda!

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The difference is what the Users choose to use and support.

Sorry, but this is simply not true. Figure acceptance STARTS with the vendors, not the customers. There's only ONE reason V4 has maintained her supremacy so far - vendors REFUSE to give her up.

USERS can't affect a thing when there are no products produced to do so with.

And, now, at RO, you can just forget ANY figures but Genesis. For once, the V4 vendors are getting a taste of what it's like to be buried by page after page after page after page of another figure consuming the marketplace.

Vendors brought this on themselves by refusing to accept that the V4 market was saturated and moving on to something better.

So here we are.

It may start with the Vendors, but it ends with the users. It does not matter what figure you build content for if no one buys it, it dies.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

It may start with the Vendors, but it ends with the users. It does not matter what figure you build content for if no one buys it, it dies.

Ahhh, well, it's not gonna matter anyway. The vultures are circling and the carcass is rotting, so we'll soon see how happy the cheerleaders are when DS costs the same as Poser (used to) and figures run $100.00+ a pop.

... ... ...Who? Seriously asking. I feel out of the loop - granted, I have been stuck in a cave the last year and a half. Who is Rpublishing?

RPublishing is Renderosity's content artist/team. They've been around for quite a while. I'm not sure "who" the artist(s) name is/are behind it. I think some of their content is bought outright from other artists. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?vendor=RPublishing

Thanks. I honestly had no clue this was even a thing and we met with Rendo not too long ago. Good to know. :)

I neglected to mention one other thing that would make a new fig competitive with Genesis:

A sane set of restrictions governing 3D printing.

DAZ3D's EULA has a blanket prohibition on 3D printing which on the surface smells like fear that a laser scan of a 3D print could reverse engineer their meshes, but is far more likely a cover for the actual reason: royalties. If you make a popular character for one of their figures and then make renders of her, your sale potential is relatively small and the resulting work can easily be pirated diminishing your profits. Moreover Poser already set the standard that a 2D rendering application's output is royalty free and DAZ has gamely gone along with that.

If you 3D print a posed master of that popular character for mass reproduction aimed at the anime fig collector market, you stand to make serious profits, the physical good has to be intentionally counterfeited to cut into those profits, and DAZ won't see a dime of your money or the counterfeiters' based on their sculpts/rigs.

By making the argument that it's about protecting their IP from reverse engineering rather than opening the can of worms that is royalties, DAZ can stand behind the DMCA and say "how is this not legitimate?" It's almost better than they're not honest about the matter.

Going forward, a new figure not from DAZ needs to address this. I honestly think that if you mass produce a commercial physical good from a mesh, it's reasonable for you and the mesh owner to negotiate royalties. I also think the royalties should be reasonable and affordable and not a hidden disincentive. There's enough money to go around and being indignant that someone had a more profitable idea for using your product than you thought of is stupid.

The VST industry is a perfect example of people being asinine about this instead of fair, but their market is a lot more docile than 3D modeling ever will be.

RedPhantom:

It seems the community is very unforgiving about issues in new figures if there are any flaws, even if the problem is fixed quickly, it still goes suffers.

I think V4 has spoiled us to a degree. I mean it's great she's got all those 3rd party fixes, but it is working against the community when it comes to new figures who could be fixed. However, V4 wasn't built with poser 9+ in mind and sooner or later something is going to have to replace her. Something where you don't need to visit 5 different sites to get all the fixes for a character.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Zev0

They already earning money now selling multi figure content. So why do they need their own figure if they already making money just selling content, be it for Daz only, Poser only or both?

Because V4 is getting older for one. For two, DAZ could decide to stop selling V4/G2/anything that can work in poser and poser users don't need to be at the mercy of that one company. About everyone I've talked to tells me G3, ie the newest figure, doesn't work at all in poser. For 3, poser can do things like weightmapping that I don't believe is possible in DS. For 4, if there's no new products for poser users to buy then rendo's poser userbase will stop buying here and that's going to hurt the bottom line.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

AmbientShade

There's nothing that prevents any artist or team from creating and marketing their own figures, for whatever program they want it to work in. If the quality is there, then there will be a customer base for it.

There's nothing stopping teams from making figures, but the issue is those smaller teams can only create so much content and content is king. The reason daz can create successful figures is partly because they have the connections to get enough vendors to support their newest work. A lot of vendors just won't make 1-3 items for a 3rd party effort that hasn't been released. Daz can get that critical mass together. That's why I think it would take something like Rpublishing or all of RNDA working together to get a new figure off the ground successfully.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

It may start with the Vendors, but it ends with the users. It does not matter what figure you build content for if no one buys it, it dies.

Ahhh, well, it's not gonna matter anyway. The vultures are circling and the carcass is rotting, so we'll soon see how happy the cheerleaders are when DS costs the same as Poser (used to) and figures run $100.00+ a pop.

This is nothing more than speculation with absolutely no grounding at all. You really need to get over your hate of DS and its users.

Zev0

They already earning money now selling multi figure content. So why do they need their own figure if they already making money just selling content, be it for Daz only, Poser only or both?

Because V4 is getting older for one. For two, DAZ could decide to stop selling V4/G2/anything that can work in poser and poser users don't need to be at the mercy of that one company. About everyone I've talked to tells me G3, ie the newest figure, doesn't work at all in poser. For 3, poser can do things like weightmapping that I don't believe is possible in DS. For 4, if there's no new products for poser users to buy then rendo's poser userbase will stop buying here and that's going to hurt the bottom line.

DS does weightmapping.

Zev0

They already earning money now selling multi figure content. So why do they need their own figure if they already making money just selling content, be it for Daz only, Poser only or both?

Because V4 is getting older for one. For two, DAZ could decide to stop selling V4/G2/anything that can work in poser and poser users don't need to be at the mercy of that one company. About everyone I've talked to tells me G3, ie the newest figure, doesn't work at all in poser. For 3, poser can do things like weightmapping that I don't believe is possible in DS. For 4, if there's no new products for poser users to buy then rendo's poser userbase will stop buying here and that's going to hurt the bottom line.

Not sure I understand point two, in four years I have shopped three times at Daz two were free items for V4 and M4 and the other order was when they had a sale on some space crafts. Daz stopped providing content for my Vicky many moons ago. The diversification and saturation of the market is all ready impacting the bottom line and I think it can only get worse, at least in the short to medium term. I am really not sure another figure helps that situation at all.

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Isn't RenderFx also connected to Renderosity? If it is, they have been involved with the vendor who created on of the recent female figures. Granted Sixus1 is the only listing on the vendor line for Scarlet. However, all of the content available in the store for the figure has RenderFx along with Sixus on the vendor line.

Because V4 is getting older for one. For two, DAZ could decide to stop selling V4/G2/anything that can work in poser and poser users don't need to be at the mercy of that one company. About everyone I've talked to tells me G3, ie the newest figure, doesn't work at all in poser.

Does that really matter? V4, Genesis 2 and 3 Items are top of the charts here. That's mainly DS users buying the G3 stuff since it's Daz only. Same story for Iray shaders. As long as people are shopping at Rendo, I do not see a problem? If Daz users are spending more here than Poser users, do you think Rendo is going to complain about a lack of Poser support in products? They are happy as long as content sells, be it Daz exclusive or not, and be it Daz users or Poser users that are buying.

My Renderosity Store

We seem to get threads like this every few years.

The answer is the same as it's always been, a figure in itself isn't a huge financial investment, but supporting it so it doesn't end up like all the rest is.

Right from the start Daz have had the smarts to know that a new figure needs to have quite a bit of content available at launch, so they take the financial gamble and "hire" vendors to make content for it before it's launched, that way they have a stockpile of content to release over the first month after the figure is released, it's this support that gives the other vendors the confidence to move over to the new figure, that and the six previous generations of figures Daz have created.

For a figure to remove V4 from the top of the Poser tree it's going to have to be done the Daz way, and that's a huge investment, that company also wont have the history of figure support that Daz does, so giving the vendors the confidence to jump on their figure really wont be easy, HiveWire did try but lets be honest Dawn didn't even get close to giving Vicky a scare.

"Ahhh, well, it's not gonna matter anyway. The vultures are circling and the carcass is rotting, so we'll soon see how happy the cheerleaders are when DS costs the same as Poser (used to) and figures run $100.00+ a pop."

Just once I would like to see at least a gratuitous attempt to explain the "logic",rationale,or even religous faith in this oft repeated assertion that:

If poser goes away Daz will become some ravenous, price gouging predator that makes people wish for the good old pre-genesis days of milk & honey

I see two likely prevailing scenarios,

First lets start with what would likely happen if SM Closed shop/Dumped poser as abandonware etc. and there were no new versions of poser being released after poser 11/ pro 2015.

The majority of the poser faithful would likely keep& use their current poser version until their computer OS's ( windows 14 or ,Mac OS 13 "yellowstone" or whatever) would no longer run its executable.

Market effect on DAZ = Zero

Some would actually crawl out of their myopic little boxes and venture into the larger more diverse world of 3D figure related rendering.

Market effect on DAZ= temporary,short term uptick in content sales as new DS users rush to get up to date with the latest Genesis iteration,

This would soon be tempered by the inevitable boredom with the same V-chick"booty ware" and "bishyboy" male hair& clothing.

In either scenario I can not see why one would think that the Classic "loss leader"business model ,currently being implemented by DAZ, would inexplicably be abandoned in favor of some punitive,price intensive money grab that would most assuredly chase away the current user base they have so cleverly curated .

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I remember when not long ago some people were arrogantly boasting "we don't need no stinkin' content" shooting down the opinion of those that stated that content is vital for this market.

Now that V4 (and in general Poser specific) content is dwindling away the same people are looking for some saviour to provide the previously not so necessary content.

As Spock said, amusing. Even more amusing are the first pages of Rendo market. It is a Genesis/Iray litany, just a step below DAZ market. I am waiting for the day in which there won't be a single Poser specific product in the whole first page.

I am waiting for the day in which there won't be a single Poser specific product in the whole first page.

Yep, just like I said..........vultures circling.

Lol your "vultures" are the same content developers, just that they switching figure platforms and support.

My Renderosity Store

I remember when not long ago some people were arrogantly boasting "we don't need no stinkin' content" shooting down the opinion of those that stated that content is vital for this market.

Now that V4 (and in general Poser specific) content is dwindling away the same people are looking for some saviour to provide the previously not so necessary content.

As Spock said, amusing. Even more amusing are the first pages of Rendo market. It is a Genesis/Iray litany, just a step below DAZ market. I am waiting for the day in which there won't be a single Poser specific product in the whole first page.

Lol agreed. "We don't need to buy content, we can just convert this and that via fitting room". Now they complain when people aren't offering as much content support for their app? Funny indeed. Same story with DSON. "We hate DSON, we will never use it." Now that DSON support is being dropped they want to get upset.

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Please, don't derail this thread. Keep it on topic, which is about a new character.

Have a creative day!

********

My Lil' Store

This is all relative regarding a new figure why it should or should not be created and sold and how viable it would be regarding Rendo.

My Renderosity Store

This is all relative regarding a new figure why it should or should not be created and sold and how viable it would be regarding Rendo.

Why does a pro-daz person such as yourself even care if rendo does a poser only figure?

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)

Lol don't come get angry with me just because I pointed out flaws with your idea. Ok let's create a scenario. Say Rendo releases this new Poser only figure. Now, how will it get content developers to create content for it? Why should they develop for it? What guarantees are there that revenue for it will be better than what they are supporting right now? Content developers have seen way too many new figures come and go and supporting them was a financial flop. So, how do you convince them that this figure is one they must support? Does the developer have any credibility in this regard? Do you have a plan in action for that? It's all nice wanting to create a new figure, but without the correct support structures, it will fail hard. Period. So, what support structures do you recommend that hasn't been tried before?

And FYI, A new Poser only figure is very niche market. It will only cater for those with app versions that support WM, unless you want it using old tech. Look at V4. Why is it successful? Because it can be used in nearly all versions of Poser and Daz. That is a huge user base. So why would content for a niche figure with a smaller market appeal be a viable decision regarding content support? Does that make any sense? You people come up with these ideas without thinking through it properly and get upset when people point out why it didn't work when it failed. Before creating a figure, look at the market, who can use actually use it, look what it is up against, then decide if its worth the effort.

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I remember when not long ago some people were arrogantly boasting "we don't need no stinkin' content" shooting down the opinion of those that stated that content is vital for this market.

Now that V4 (and in general Poser specific) content is dwindling away the same people are looking for some saviour to provide the previously not so necessary content.

As Spock said, amusing. Even more amusing are the first pages of Rendo market. It is a Genesis/Iray litany, just a step below DAZ market. I am waiting for the day in which there won't be a single Poser specific product in the whole first page.

Lol agreed. "We don't need to buy content, we can just convert this and that via fitting room". Now they complain when people aren't offering as much content support for their app? Funny indeed. Same story with DSON. "We hate DSON, we will never use it." Now that DSON support is being dropped they want to get upset.

I am not going to argue with any of that, it may apply to some people but please don't lump that description on all Poser users. I still use V4WM, I am not looking for a 'saviour' to provide content but that does not stop me looking at the new figures. I did say I would not use DSON, I have never used DSON and I am not at all upset, in fact I understand why, the support has been dropped.

Surely we are all individuals here, whether we use DS, Poser or any other 3D software. Some may be desperate for a new Poser figure while others are really not bothered and others fill all the shades in between. Sweeping statements aimed at any perceived group does not really help the discussion.

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I was mainly speaking about the vocal ones. Regardless, in the greater scale of things, it look that outlook pretty much cemented itself. Maybe not with all users, but definitely with others. Large enough to cause this shift.

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**duanemoody **there wouldn't need to be any backward engineering.you can remesh a mesh with 1 click now to change there topology.

& http://www.cgtrader.com/xiaoxunyue2014 it's Vicky ya can tell buy the topology ,apparently no one cares.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

There's Michelle and Dawn they seem to be doing ok. and we all know where to get birds from.

I've kind of wondered why Renderosity hasn't released there own characters.

but if Renderosity does release there own characters.

how do we know it will be for all Poser versions ?

If I was RPublishing I'd releases a SubD mesh for Max ,Maya, Houdini ,Poser ,DAZ Studio etc etc but it would only work in 10 ,Pro 14.

I can make a character .

I can sell it here for $50.00 and hear a lot of noise or I can sell it at turbo for a $500.00 and no noise.

Where would you sell yours ?

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

and there's no one stopping any one from making a Poser character.

instead of depending on others to do it for you ,your get a lot farther a lot faster if you do it your self.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

"And FYI, A new Poser only figure is very niche market. It will only cater for those with app versions that support WM, unless you want it using old tech. Look at V4. Why is it successful? Because it can be used in nearly all versions of Poser and Daz."

Correct sir and as long as SM insists on keeping" backward compatibility" withold poser tech, any attempt at a "new" or "advanced" poser figure will be dead on arrival.

By continuing to support older version of poser they are essentially competing with their older selves in the market place.

But this entire thread is moot as the recent disasterously epic fail from SIXUS will soon take its rightful place in the rubbish bin of poser history along all with Dawn & all the others

I doubt anyone will bother to undertake creating any new Commercial attempt at a new poser female in the foreseeable future.

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Oh I'm pretty sure we will see more figures trying their luck. Nothing wrong with that to be honest. But please, please, I hope it isn't hyped as a vicky killer or the next best thing, if it has no chance becoming so commercially. That will just lead to an early death if false promises are made. To make a commercially successful figure takes a hell of a lot of planning and finance with crap loads of marketing and most importantly, has the backing of a company or party that has a reputation for making commercially successful figures in the past. WIthout the last bit, people will always doubt it's credibility, specially content developers. Content developers need insurance that what they are supporting will take off, otherwise they won't even bother wasting their time. Some will test the waters at first, but others who have been in this game long enough know the risks. Also it has to be easy to develop for and be versatile enough to do what you want. That has to be there in the foundation of the figure before the other aspects apply.

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I also think if ya going to compete with V7 ya need her very own software made just for her and a store as big as these stores.
I have no idea why any one would want to compete with a 10 year old mesh.

HW3D seems to be hanging in there. they seem to like nature a lot.
I wouldn't say SIXUS is a failure .SIXUS is one of the best CGI Artist there is.

but RorrKonn has the next epic fail for the rubbish bin of Poser history. right here. LMAO.
There's going to be a mech tank,mech robot,mech female,mech dude.
for all the CGI App's Poser ,Daz ,Houdini ,Maya ,Max ,Blender in game style.
So if one app doesn't like it ,doesn't mean a thing.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I can sell it here for $50.00 and hear a lot of noise or I can sell it at turbo for a $500.00 and no noise.

lol yep. That's one of the smartest things you've said in a while. Less risk of piracy too.

Winterclaw, I love ya man, but enough with the chicken little.

You are asking for the same release strategy as V4 release. Those days are gone and they are never coming back - DAZ can't even manage that with their current figure - the reason there is more content for genesis 3 here than over at DAZ is because there are literally only a handful of vendors making content for it over there. Only the Cool Kid vendors had visibility on it before release - everybody else got blindsided. An interesting 2nd order effect will be seeing how that affects sales for any vendor that isn't one of the Cool Kids. The vendors here at 'Rosity (and to a lesser extent at RDNA) may suck all of the oxygen out of the room before they get going. The shake out over there will be interesting in the coming months. It is noticeable over there how some vendors are more equal than others. The genesis 3 release looks just like the release of any other figure not named Victoria 4. 113 items (to include converted genesis 2 (or earlier content) iray shaders, poses & bundles in a month - not my definition of a flood) Hell, even the customers in the DAZ forums have noticed that the walled garden is getting a little smaller.

About your manifesto:

1. This is not quantifiable - looks good means different things to different people.

2. This is not quantifiable. No amount of bending capability is going to please everyone - JHC, we can bend any damned figure into a pretzel now. And here is a little secret - most people aren't using Poser/DS to make yoga scenes.

This is not quantifiable - just who decides what constitutes unnecessary?

4. This certainly makes sense.

5. We have this with figures already. They were also rejected.

6. We have had this with other figures already - initial burst, then nothing - because no figure will sell as much on it's initial roll out as V4 will after 8 years of user purchases.

7. That is a valid requirement, but see #5.

8. This is contradictory. To take full advantage of Poser capabilities, you have to let go of legacy processes.

9. Maybe the programmers at SM could add this feature to Poser - Perhaps they could call it THE FITTING ROOM. And for the people that are too cheap to upgrade Poser, there is Xdresser, Wardrobe Wizard, and Morphing Clothes - some of which have been around for nearly a decade already. Really, you should look around and see what features are actually available in or with Poser.

10. Good idea - then we could have a week of people savaging the figure before it was actually released and everyone could see it - that would really help sales figures.

I don't know where you have been, but every time a new figure is released, we go through the same rigamarole.

1. A number of people will savage the figure based on metrics that they would never apply to their preferred figure in a million years. Ever notice how people never compare a new figure to a stock V4, but instead the standard is a V4 with a 8 years of correction products attached.

That is the difference between the DAZ figures and every other figure - the DAZ figures have a million correction products made for them, 3rd party ones don't. That isn't just legacy figures like V4 - genesis 2 has just as many - which I find amusing since we have been told repeatedly have the genesis line IS THE BESTEST, MOST REALISTIC SET OF FIGURES EVAH!!!! Oh look, another correction product for genesis 2 was released over on DAZ today.

2. The usual suspects will drop converting their handful of products from the last g figure to the current g figure and disrupt every single thread on every storefront.

When they could be doing something more productive, like asking DAZ why the entire genesis 2 female lineup doesn't have a single figure or character that has eyebrows that follow the eye socket. Seriously, WTF is up with that? I am going to have to drag every single head texture (100+) into PE & manually rotate and resize the eyebrows to match the mesh to actually use the product.

3. The Luddites will scream poverty and whine about how they don't want to give up V4 and can't move to a new figure and they don't want to learn any feature that was added to Poser over the last decade.

4. V4 vendors will whine that any new figure will not have the same sales base as the 8 year old V4 from day one. The fact that it took both almost giving V4 content away for months and every storefront aligning with V4 before the figure became viable. Not to mention the fact that everyone seems to have forgotten all of the issues that V4 had upon release. Vendors aren't going to make anything for a new figure, because they don't want to - and you can't make us - neeneer, neener, neener. Vendors simply don't look long-term. This is a rehash of the We don't make male clothing because it interferes with our artistic vision.

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

Yet another entry in the long list of saviours. Meanwhile, in the real world, the RPublishing collective of this thread title is churning out G2/G3/Iray content.

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

Yet another entry in the long list of saviours. Meanwhile, in the real world, the RPublishing collective of this thread title is churning out G2/G3/Iray content.

So what? There is a whole lot of stuff sold here for Vue, Bryce, Photoshop, etc. Why the sudden panic? There is a bit of g3 content here, because there isn't very much at DAZ. Genesis 3 is just another niche figure, just like any other post-V4 figure. If you look closely, you would know there are only about a couple dozen vendors (at best) making content for the genesis series on a regular basis at DAZ and a dozen or so here (with a lot of overlap).

The only people panicking are the people that are hell-bent that they are not going to leave a Poser 4 workflow and Poser 6 figures behind. At some point, they need to leave the 1990's and join us in the 21st century.

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

Yet another entry in the long list of saviours. Meanwhile, in the real world, the RPublishing collective of this thread title is churning out G2/G3/Iray content.

Besides the fact that Project E is currently a remeshed V4 with a lot of JCMs. If it is to be released commercially that mesh has to be done from scratch or it won't last a day in whatever store it ends up in. And it is geared towards porn, so unless that's your thing, I don't see how this will save anyone.

OTOH - Project E is coming and it should be just what you are looking for.

Yet another entry in the long list of saviours. Meanwhile, in the real world, the RPublishing collective of this thread title is churning out G2/G3/Iray content.

So what? There is a whole lot of stuff sold here for Vue, Bryce, Photoshop, etc. Why the sudden panic? There is a bit of g3 content here, because there isn't very much at DAZ. Genesis 3 is just another niche figure, just like any other post-V4 figure. If you look closely, you would know there are only about a couple dozen vendors (at best) making content for the genesis series on a regular basis at DAZ and a dozen or so here (with a lot of overlap).

The only people panicking are the people that are hell-bent that they are not going to leave a Poser 4 workflow and Poser 6 figures behind. At some point, they need to leave the 1990's and join us in the 21st century.

Previously your argument was that no genesis content was being at no other store than DAZ (even when it was) and that was a bad thing. Now you're saying more content is being made at other stores than DAZ and that's now a bad thing. Can you explain this change in views? Seems to me it is a testament to the popularity of G3 if you have products on all stores (including genital props for V7) despite being DS only.

Hey, folks, is it even possible to have a conversation about Poser figures here? I really don't want to waste my time in thread after thread after thread about DAZ figures when I am using Poser figures in game dev.

How does every post about Poser figures eventually end up about Genesis? And, if that's the case, I'll just move on to somewhere more productive.

Never used genesis 3 and there's no beef with the figure, looks nice. Kinda have to agree that it's a niche figure though, doesn't work smoothly in Poser or Carrara. Why bother even thinking about it from my perspective.

Oh, and if you think that genesis isn't a porn figure you're woefully misinformed.

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Hey, folks, is it even possible to have a conversation about Poser figures here? I really don't want to waste my time in thread after thread after thread about DAZ figures when I am using Poser figures in game dev.

How does every post about Poser figures eventually end up about Genesis? And, if that's the case, I'll just move on to somewhere more productive.

Well considering the OP mentioned g3 several times, I guess it's par for the course.

Never used genesis 3 and there's no beef with the figure, looks nice. Kinda have to agree that it's a niche figure though, doesn't work smoothly in Poser or Carrara. Why bother even thinking about it from my perspective.

Oh, and if you think that genesis isn't a porn figure you're woefully misinformed.

Perhaps a few years have passed and maybe Genesis isn't the thing that has become niche? ;) Maybe that's why support got dropped? And there is a difference between a figure that can be used for porn (via add ons and products) and a figure specially made for porn (e.g. the genital detail and morphs standard that only those artist would really care about)

Hey, folks, is it even possible to have a conversation about Poser figures here? I really don't want to waste my time in thread after thread after thread about DAZ figures when I am using Poser figures in game dev.

How does every post about Poser figures eventually end up about Genesis? And, if that's the case, I'll just move on to somewhere more productive.

Short answer - No. One can always count on DAZ vendors like Terrance to show up and muddy the waters. OTOH, the OP is mentioned their breathless concern over genesis 3 content showing up at 'Rosity, so some talk about genesis will show up. In addition, it isn't all that difficult to get genesis 1 & 2 working in Poser as a native figure, without the need for any DAZ code mucking up the stability of Poser. I find the genesis 1 figure quite useful for making aliens, via Dario Fish's stuff here (If you have a need for non-humans, buy them all. You will be glad you did.). AFA humans, genesis 1 & 2 are just the same bog standard 20 something Caucasians that have been available for V4/M4 for years now. The only other thing they bring to the table is that they are from DAZ.

I like niche, so long as it's useful to me. ;°

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Hey, folks, is it even possible to have a conversation about Poser figures here? I really don't want to waste my time in thread after thread after thread about DAZ figures when I am using Poser figures in game dev.

How does every post about Poser figures eventually end up about Genesis? And, if that's the case, I'll just move on to somewhere more productive.

Short answer - No. One can always count on DAZ vendors like Terrance to show up and muddy the waters. OTOH, the OP is mentioned their breathless concern over genesis 3 content showing up at 'Rosity, so some talk about genesis will show up. In addition, it isn't all that difficult to get genesis 1 & 2 working in Poser as a native figure, without the need for any DAZ code mucking up the stability of Poser. I find the genesis 1 figure quite useful for making aliens, via Dario Fish's stuff here (If you have a need for non-humans, buy them all. You will be glad you did.). AFA humans, genesis 1 & 2 are just the same bog standard 20 something Caucasians that have been available for V4/M4 for years now. The only other thing they bring to the table is that they are from DAZ.

LOL the waters are only dirty because the dirt was intentionally thrown in by others. Maybe those other posts are actually chlorine? ;) Also DAZ characters are used because they are the most flexible morph wise. In the right hands they can changed to creatures, and in Genesis they add items like creature legs, wings, horns that become part of the figure, and all the clothing all fits without vendor intervention, and you don't have to buy a pro version of a program to a similar capability. Any figure that comes along is going to be held to that standard, as no one will buy a new figure that does not do everything the old figure did or makes it easier to do their art. That's pretty much where all these other poser figures fail.

Hey, folks, is it even possible to have a conversation about Poser figures here? I really don't want to waste my time in thread after thread after thread about DAZ figures when I am using Poser figures in game dev.

How does every post about Poser figures eventually end up about Genesis? And, if that's the case, I'll just move on to somewhere more productive.

Short answer - No. One can always count on DAZ vendors like Terrance to show up and muddy the waters. OTOH, the OP is mentioned their breathless concern over genesis 3 content showing up at 'Rosity, so some talk about genesis will show up. In addition, it isn't all that difficult to get genesis 1 & 2 working in Poser as a native figure, without the need for any DAZ code mucking up the stability of Poser. I find the genesis 1 figure quite useful for making aliens, via Dario Fish's stuff here (If you have a need for non-humans, buy them all. You will be glad you did.). AFA humans, genesis 1 & 2 are just the same bog standard 20 something Caucasians that have been available for V4/M4 for years now. The only other thing they bring to the table is that they are from DAZ.

I do Game Development. No way in heck I'm paying the DAZ license fees to use Genesis in my workflow. I have zero interest in DAZ, DAZ products or DAZ game licensing fees. Too rich for my blood.

Try this then https://www.morph3d.com/

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Try this then https://www.morph3d.com/

Thanks, but I create my own game content using Poser figures. Not what I am looking for.

I like niche, so long as it's useful to me. ;°

Right there with you.
At the end of the day, that is what matters the most.

None of this has anything to do with Renderosity making their own figures.

Let's keep it on topic.

Lack of "documentation" hasn't slowed the release of Genesis content you see here in the stores now has it? SM has documentation, so where is the content? Proof that Documentation means nothing. People have official threads and Youtube to find answers to questions. Bible style manuals is the old way of learning, and has no real bearing on content release.

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Documentation for new features in Carrara is non existant, no amount of links to wikis is going to prove otherwise. I've been down that road. Daz's documentation strategy is piss poor.

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I will counter however that if not for bagginsbill, Poser's material room would still be in the virtual dark ages.

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Wow, that completely screwed up my post.

Sorry SSGBryan - I quoted your post but for some reason your post got replaced with mine.Can't seem to find a way to fix it.

I was saying, none of this has anything to do with Renderosity making their own figure. Please keep this on topic.

Lack of "documentation" hasn't slowed the release of Genesis content you see here in the stores now has it? SM has documentation, so where is the content? Proof that Documentation means nothing. People have official threads and Youtube to find answers to questions. Bible style manuals is the old way of learning, and has no real bearing on content release.

It seems to have slowed content developers - as a reminder, it took 6 months for genesis 1 to reach 300 items (I kept a careful track) 4 years on, and genesis 3 is keeping that pace. AFA how many content developers, there are only a fraction of them that V4 has (or DAZ had before the release of genesis 1).

Official Threads? Obviously, you have never been to DAZ's Technical Help forum. The latest threads:

Render makes PC power off (reproducable)

How to split shoes

Is it possible to change the pivot point of an object?

loading in paid content from other sites

DAZ IRAY won't stop Crashing

Bunch of high level lernin' going on there. Especially since no one from DAZ participates in that forum - or anywhere else for that matter.

I suspect they don't because they have spent the past 3 1/2 weeks trying to figure out how to package an OSX product with an OSX installer (Request #196181 on the DAZ tracker) - Those "crack" developers have been at it since the 1st week of July, with no success apparently. I will be hitting the 30 window by Thursday - will probably have to get my money back.

The reason it has taken me over 6 months to build tutorials on converting DS content to Poser native is because THERE ISN'T ANY DOCUMENTATION. I have had to spend months testing each f*&^ing step, because the "reference" documentation consists 2 documents - and neither of them have anything of any value. This is precisely why DS users require so much hand-holding (Visit the tech support threads). Lack of documentation was a driver in DAZ's inability to get people to pay for Daz Studio - well that, and the fact that most of the subsystems were still in beta when it flopped out the door. - Which was the excuse for things not working in the Official Threads. I was there, thank you very much.

Youtube? Seriously? Video tutorials are the least effective method of teaching ANYTHING if you are expecting long-term knowledge retention.

Wow, that completely screwed up my post.

Sorry SSGBryan - I quoted your post but for some reason your post got replaced with mine.Can't seem to find a way to fix it.

I was saying, none of this has anything to do with Renderosity making their own figure. Please keep this on topic.

Renderosity Forum software at it's finest. Back on topic - I am not adverse to Renderosity having it's own figure - I like to collect them and I can always find a use for them. I even managed to find a use for the Eroko figure - In my stories, she is in charge of the brig - keeping people tied up. (If you don't get that joke, you obviously don't have Eroko.)

That being said, Renderosity bought Blacksmith 3d & Texture Transformer - based on how well that product is supported, I doubt anyone at 'Rosity has the skill sets to make their own figure.

At the end of the day:

1. No figure is going to please the luddites, and

2. The people who have a vested economic interest in other figures are going to spend a great deal of time disrupting threads - as opposed to helping the poor people that actually use their figure of choice.

3. Those of us who chose not to be limited to 1 figure are having a blast. The explosion of characters we have seen over the past couple of years has been great and in my case, has really pushed me to up my skills.

Now is an awesome time to be a Poser user.

Youtube? Seriously? Video tutorials are the least effective method of teaching ANYTHING if you are expecting long-term knowledge retention.

Using videos to teach a highly visual activity? Come on.You should contact Gnomon and tell them to stop using such an inappropriate medium for teaching and revert to books (better if handwritten on parchment).

Well, he did say "if" you are expecting long-term knowledge retention. I guess for some people the time it takes to alt-tab from a video to the software they are learning is too long term. Slow computer maybe?

For the OP, you're not getting anything better than Dawn for a non-Daz figure, the community might as well support that because if you don't no one else is going to make the effort Hivewire3d did.

2. The people who have a vested economic interest in other figures are going to spend a great deal of time disrupting threads - as opposed to helping the poor people that actually use their figure of choice.

So, this would explain your increased "participation" in the G3 threads over at DAZ3D forums? Also with Rpublishing releasing a Genesis 3 outfit yesterday (along with a texture set from a vendor), I can't see them risking money on a building a figure from scratch. Figures are not easy things to create, especially if you want to be morphable and flexible. Rendo is a brokerage that sells content and software; if someone wants to sell a figure through them, they don't have a problem with that. But to set aside resources for a new figure? I think they're making a much better business decision to support the current popular figures than risking the business on something new and untested.

All this noise over a imaginary character ,it's kind of funny.

but Renderosity has been the lunch pad for just about all the original characters released .

Renderosity even playeda major role with Dawn.

but it is ironic the most successful not released by DAZ characters Dawn ,ApolloMaximus CGI Artist are associated with DAZ.

and it's kind of funny that DAZ Genesis is the enemy but DAZ V1,V2,V3, V4 is not .

Think I alt to get DAZ to Release my characters for me ?

So when it says Artist it will Read DAZ,RorrKonn.

Will have modern DAZ characters in Poser & all will be right with the world again.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

"Youtube? Seriously? Video tutorials are the least effective method of teaching "

LOL!!! were it not for Companies like the afformentioned Gnomon and Digital tutors Lynda.com et al as well as all of the FREE tutorials video on you tube,

The advanced features of high end CG production Apps like adobe After Affects SideFx Houdini or Autodesk 3Dmax, would still be "black Arts" reserved for those elite padwans who actually get hired by industrial light & Magic& Weta Digital or who can at least afford the prohibitively costly tuition at Full Sail university.

Just try to do anything substantial using only Official "manual" that ships with nextlimit's Realflow and see how far you get....trust me it wont be far.

"ANYTHING if you are expecting long-term knowledge retention. "

Really now ???..by that logic why even have College campus's with all of the bothersome Visual interaction with instructors and Lab equipment etc.

when you could just send Harvard one big check for $200,000 and wait for the delivery of your Massive wooden crate filled with all of the textbooks & "Documentation" needed for ones MBA :-/.

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YouTube Channel

LOL!!! were it not for Companies like the afformentioned Gnomon and Digital tutors Lynda.com et al as well as all of the FREE tutorials video on you tube,

The advanced features of high end CG production Apps like adobe After Affects SideFx Houdini or Autodesk 3Dmax, would still be "black Arts" reserved for those elite padwans who actually get hired by industrial light & Magic& Weta Digital or who can at least afford the prohibitively costly tuition at Full Sail university.

Agreed.

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The reason it has taken me over 6 months to build tutorials on converting DS content to Poser native is because THERE ISN'T ANY DOCUMENTATION.

Ummmm...Do you honestly think they will make documentation endorsing a hack, when they have released DSON? If you want to make hack documentation on making content native then go ahead. Don't expect a company who is against it to do that for you. Why would they release documentation on methods that break the functionality of their content?

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Youtube? Seriously? Video tutorials are the least effective method of teaching ANYTHING if you are expecting long-term knowledge retention.

Using videos to teach a highly visual activity? Come on.You should contact Gnomon and tell them to stop using such an inappropriate medium for teaching and revert to books (better if handwritten on parchment).

In the educational field we have about 20 years worth of empirical evidence that it IS the least effective for long-term knowledge retention. Proving that video works as a teaching tool was the holy grail for about 20 years - the problem is the data doesn't support the thesis - as an entire generation of Doctorial candidates has proven. Companies do them because they are easy to make - there isn't a lot of time or effort to put into them compared to other teaching methodologies

It is all part of the Some people learn by doing, others learn by listening, other learn by watching nonsense that came out of the educational establishment post WWII. It's a great theory, but the problem is there was no data to support it - and there still isn't.

So how did you learn to walk and speak? By reading documentation? Or by watching and emulating and listening to people in your environment and what you were exposed to? When kids learn a dance move that is on TV, do they not watch the video and emulate the moves? No, I guess they consult the documentation in order to learn it:) Who needs supporting data when the proof is right in front of you? I for one cannot read pages of a document. It is why I seek visual or audio aid. That is how I learn things. A lot of creative orientated people are that way. NOT everybody learns the same way. That entire generation of Doctorial candidates can kiss my ass. And Guess what, the things I learned from Youtube tutorials I still know.

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To add, I take it you can still walk and speak? So that whole no long-term knowledge retention crap via visual and audio stimulation can also kiss my ass. FYI, I don't remember half the crap I learned in Biology in high school, and that was document style learning. I can go on and on but I think I made my point. Now please, can we drop this stupid argument? Thanks.

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Just because YOU learn better from visual and audio doesn't mean it is the same for everyone.

I am hearing impaired, so video tutorials are pretty much useless to me.

I guess I am just doomed to live in the 'dark ages' huh, good thing Poser comes with a comprehensive manual!

I said for certain types of people. Those who want to learn via manual styled documents are free to do that. Just don't feed me that crap that it works for everybody and is the best solution to learning something and is the ONLY way to get information.

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The Silo manual is about as complicated as text manuals need to be. Tells you what something is and its basic function.

Speaking of Silo, I learned how to model in Silo via videos, not by reading the manual. Do I know everything about it, no. But I still learned and made multiple vehicles. I have also retained my knowledge of it. If anyone would like a list of Silo videos to learn from, please let me know as I kept the list.

Just because YOU learn better from visual and audio doesn't mean it is the same for everyone.

I am hearing impaired, so video tutorials are pretty much useless to me.

I guess I am just doomed to live in the 'dark ages' huh, good thing Poser comes with a comprehensive manual!

People with dyslexia see the situation under the opposite light.

Can't use the manual if there isn't one..

And we saying even if there is one, most of us wouldn't even bother. We find quicker answers to our questions via alternative methods.

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Sure, options are good!

But no manual = less options

i learn either way, i 'spose, but i will say that there have been plenty of times where i just can't stand sitting in front of the PC any longer, so a manual, for me, does provide portability. and before one says anything about phones/ipads and the internet, etc., i don't own a mobile, and even if i did, a girl can only take so much technology on any given day [heh]. plus, i'm a 'reader', have been my whole life, and in terms of a manual, i can think things through a bit better, a bit more clearly - where do i wanna go, what do i think is possible, etc. - a manual sometimes helps me see 'the bigger picture' as opposed to a singular type task. that bit usually comes later on in my quest for knowledge/learning.

watching tuts is great tho, i'd think, because that way you can pause, alt+tab to your application, emulate/interact, restart, move along in the process...

though i'd say, overall, nothing beats talking things through/brainstorming with an actual individual. i think i learn the best, and the most, this way.

well ,I didn't really learn to read till I got a PC ,didn't need it before a PC.still learning to right ;)

but the old manual's where wrote buy a 3rd party that had no idea what they where righting about.

I learned 3D buy a mailing list.after I fussed about the 3rd party none CGI Artist intruding ,they started making tutorials buy CGI Artist as part of the manual.

I like zBrushes video's

and I appreciate the ones that make the youtube video's but some could be made a lot better.

volume control,back ground noise,and going and a 1000 times.

if your going to do something do it right.

but these days forums are the best.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

One problem with most video tutorials is that it's assuming you understand English without problems. Guess what, most of the world does not have English as their native tongue. A written manual can easily be translated to any language.

Eh, what was the topic of this thread again?

Eh, what was the topic of this thread again?

The wish that RPublishing collective wasted their time and money developing yet another dead on arrival Poser-only figure instead of keeping producting economically viable content for G2, G3 and Iray.

i learn either way, i 'spose, but i will say that there have been plenty of times where i just can't stand sitting in front of the PC any longer, so a manual, for me, does provide portability. and before one says anything about phones/ipads and the internet, etc., i don't own a mobile, and even if i did, a girl can only take so much technology on any given day [heh]. plus, i'm a 'reader', have been my whole life, and in terms of a manual, i can think things through a bit better, a bit more clearly - where do i wanna go, what do i think is possible, etc. - a manual sometimes helps me see 'the bigger picture' as opposed to a singular type task. that bit usually comes later on in my quest for knowledge/learning.

watching tuts is great tho, i'd think, because that way you can pause, alt+tab to your application, emulate/interact, restart, move along in the process...

though i'd say, overall, nothing beats talking things through/brainstorming with an actual individual. i think i learn the best, and the most, this way.

I half typed a response to the video learning debate and then realised it was way off topic, so deleted it. RPublishing is in the business of making money, which is why they will build content for G2, G3 and Iray, in the same way they still make items for V4. No doubt they will develop for the new Cycles render engine in Poser 11, if they see a market. The are not really interested in the petty 'mine is better than yours' squabbles it just needs to make money.

After the slating Scarlet got in these forums I wonder why anyone would want to develop a new figure, let alone RPublishing.

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Well Scarlet came out with the "I am what Poser is supposed to be" attitude, making claims, and it couldn't back it up. So she deserved what she got. Also, where is the two to 3 content releases a week? That should be removed from the figure promo. It is misleading and is no longer the case. Another false promise made. There is nothing wrong with releasing a figure. It's how you deliver it that is important. Don't come to the market place claiming to be a figure of a new error, or Poser the way its supposed to be, unless it has the ability to back it up. Make claims like that and people will be hard on it looking for proof.

My Renderosity Store

Well Scarlet came out with the "I am what Poser is supposed to be" attitude, making claims, and it couldn't back it up. So she deserved what she got. Also, where is the two to 3 content releases a week? That should be removed from the figure promo. It is misleading and is no longer the case. Another false promise made.There is nothing wrong with releasing a figure. It's how you deliver it that is important. Don't come to the market place claiming to be a figure of a new error, or Poser the way its supposed to be, unless it has the ability to back it up. Make claims like that and people will be hard on you.

I agree the launch and the promo could have been handled better but as it came from a small team I thought the objections were, on occasions, a little personal and a little more vicious than required, but that is a very personal opinion. Only trouble is I doubt any other figure would have been welcomed any better. Many seem to be looking for a V4 killer from day one which is unrealistic in my view. As to the the two to three content releases a week, again a valid criticism, but perhaps the team became dis-heartened when the figure was stoned to death.

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

As to the the two to three content releases a week, again a valid criticism, but perhaps the team became dis-heartened when the figure was stoned to death.

Disheartened or not, if it is a false statement and it needs to be removed if it is no longer valid. You cannot make a claim on something if it is no longer the case. You just end up losing credibility as a seller. What if some people are buying her because of that promise of content weekly? Honestly I would have just released the figure with no promises made.

My Renderosity Store

true, everyone wants to do the green back boogie. creating content for existing things, well, they RPublishing] seem to do okay at that. and even w.out the warranted pulverizing of Scarlett, i for one don't really foresee RP doing a figure, period. i'm guessing, as mentioned earlier in this thread, that there are more than just a few of us that still have that stale Renda taste in our mouths...

Scarlet is a great character. that because it's not a DAZ production will be at best ignored or at worst crucified.

They say the public is the hardest boss to work for.Some of the Rederosity public gives a hole new meaning to that phrase.

If I was Sixus1 I'd go sell Scarlet at turbo n the likes for all the app's.

Windows rules OS's ,DAZ rules Poser Characters ,that's just how it is.

I have nothing against DAZ or DAZ Studio but I'll never get why Poser holds on to DAZ the way they do.

Roxie is a great character also.

but If Renderosity releases a Renderosity Character they need to get DAZ to make it for them.

So at the end of the day it will have a DAZ stamp on it.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

"but If Renderosity releases a Renderosity Character they need to get DAZ to make it for them.So at the end of the day it will have a DAZ stamp on it."

There is already a viable, poser native, Daz female Character with terabytes of content

Its called DAZ Victoria 4" I believe.

V4 has prevailed over Alison,Sydney,Roxie, Dawn etc. ,NOT because of some magical DAZ pedigree

But because V4 (aging, & still flawed) , is still a BETTER FIGURE than the ones I just mentioned ......sorry.

Joepublic's recent ,Brilliant Rant Said it best
I suggest any potential figure maker read it and take heed.

Expecting buyers& merchants to support your sub standard new figure based on emotional factors such as :

Hatred of DAZ,

Tribal like loyalty to Poser& poser only content.

Nerdy McNerd, Startrekish,Technobabble about Exotic rigging implementations.

or Grandios, Bloviated "Mission Statements"

about a "New Era or "The future of Poser

(Antonia..LOL!!),^^

Well.. such nonsense simply does not work with a user base as Mature as this one.

My website

YouTube Channel

A lot of really skilled people worked on Antonia; ODF, Diogenes, LesBentley, Cage, Bagginsbill, and the list goes on. Considering it was a free, community effort figure I don't see why you would need to denigrate the work of those folks.

Oh, and you forgot to mention your "pipeline". Lol.

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"A lot of really skilled people worked on Antonia; ODF, Diogenes, LesBentley, Cage, Bagginsbill, and the list goes on. Considering it was a free, community effort figure I don't see why you would need to denigrate the work of those folks."

The community largely rejected the END RESULT of the work of those talented folks

To point out that the Microsoft "Zune" was an Epic Failure is not a value judgement of the MS Engineers that did the skilled grunt work to develop it.

Also I was refering to the over blown hyperbole such as the gawdy, brobdingnagian

"They are coming" forum Banners as well as the, frankly silly"Mission Statement"
at "poser place"

"Oh, and you forgot to mention your "pipeline". Lol."

Not relevant but since you brought it up

My main reason for My Deleting "Antonia"
Almost immediately had nothing to do with her
overall looks or Attractiveness.

As an animator I need figures that use Standard Bone naming and rotational conventions for the purpose of motion retargeting.

This allows me to Create one Complex animation in Iclone or Endorphin
for Daz Mike4 or vicky 4.
and later re-use it on V3,V2,P6 Jessi & James,Miki 2 Daz Genesis 1 & 2

(with minor tweaks of course)

Antonia's Exotic"wave of the Future"
rigging precluded her from accepting any of my huge library of Motion data.

Making her useless to my .......Pipeline :-)

My website

YouTube Channel

Fair enough wolf359.

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wolf359 It's all a matter of the end user perspective.There's no way to make everyone happy.

I know my perspective is the exception and not the rule.

I dislike like how V4 moves as much as you dislike Antonia's rigs.

but I think Roxie and V4 rigs need tweaking.

and I'm not working on a mesh rigs that has a polycount of 60,000.

So from my perspective Roxie is better then V4. I know every one does not agree with me.

I also think one of all the characters biggest problems is if one tweaks the rigs,they can not give a way or sell the tweak.

they had to go threw a lot of unnecessary headache to release the V4WM.

Antonia's a open mesh ya can morph her pretty and do what ever you want to the rigs ,mesh ,map ,any thing at all.

you can even model wings in to her mesh and give it away or sell it.

but they just throw her a way .I've never seen them throw a DAZ mesh away.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Winterclaw's initial post addresses a very serious and real situation as it stands for Poser. I also agree that people are not willing to jump over to using a new figure until there is a very large amount of content or the hope of that content arriving in a steady stream as it does from Daz for DS users. There does need to be a Poser equivalent but that would mean a very large investment of time and the ability to stick with it for a long haul to see returns. It is not practical for a small individual to do. It must be done by a larger entity who can afford to spend the time and pay people to make content until Poser users have gained confidence that the figure will continue to get support. There is a market opportunity, but Poser users are so stuck on using Daz figures that I am not sure if they will ever move on even when a good figure is offered. There are too many people eager to sink the new figure and too few vendors either willing or able to support it.

"People who attempt define what art is or is not, are not artists"---Luminescence

HiveWire3D is about the biggest most experienced company you could get to make Poser characters.
You can still see HiveWire3D topology on V6.
I don't have V7 so can't say but V7 was built on all the V's before her so HW3D will always be part of the V's.
and We all know how Dawn's doing.

lets do a new this vs that app.
lets go Max vs Poser.
Witch is same as saying Max,Lightwave,Maya,Houdinie,C4D vs Poser DAZ.

Say we make a character for Poser and it has to be perfect out of the box cause they won't tweak rigs ,maps or anything.
But they will yell about are mesh if are mesh is not there perception of perfection.
They want the perfect mesh for $50.00 and they want 1/2 million pages of content for $10.00.
They want the close and hair conforming.
Conforming cloths n hair are 10x's more of a hassle to make then dynamic cloths n hair.
you would need a studio full of 3D Artist willing to work for pennies a hour to get no where enough done.

or

We could sell a character to Max ,that would tweak the mesh to there liking and make there own close n hair
or buy are hassle free dynamic hair n cloths.and make 1/2 million dollars like nikola dechev did.

I really don't see a lot of 3D Artist competing for Vicky's Crown.

.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Dawn sins were many:

too few morphs and not designed to be used as building blocks (like DAZ morph packs)
the default textures unusable to create freebies
very difficult to morph in programs like Blender
very slow release of specific content.

If these easily predictable errors had not existed, Dawn might have taken off.

Hivewire3D had their occasion and they squandered it; I see no other realistic option for a post V4 Poser native mainstream figure. Unless a mad idea of mine: SM is badly integrating/castrating Cyles; what if they tried to do the same with MakeHuman? they could sell it to the point-and-clickers as Poser "Genesis".

not necessarily a lot of topology but some and you can see a lot of V3 in V4.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

well as far as I am concerned the only sin Dawn committed was she's not named DAZ Vicky ;)

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

well as far as I am concerned the only sin Dawn committed was she's not named DAZ Vicky ;)

You are exactly right! She is a great figure and I use her all of the time, but she entered the market when V4 was still reigning supreme and Poser users were clinging fast to her and still hoping that Daz would somehow change their minds and make a fully integrated Vicky for Poser. Now that V7 has arrived and has even less compatibility with Poser, they have finally realized that it isn't going to happen. Meanwhile V4 has been steadily aging. Dawn has extensive morphs, and I can make characters just as beautiful and versatile with her as any other figure using just her official HW Head and Body morph dials. I love that figure actually, but there needs to be a much greater vendor base creating things for her in order for there to be a mass exodus of Poser users from V4 and/or the DSON G2. There was a lot of bashing and there continues to be bashing of the Dawn figure based on her default shape and texture which I have never understood because who renders V4 in her purple second skin swimsuit or the gray un-textured-unmorphed Genesis figure? Also, because she is not a Poser only character, vendors do perceive the need to support both DS and Poser for her, and that greatly slows down the production process. At the same time, vendors need to be able to make a living at what they do, and in order to get a figure really going, they would need to be willing to start supporting another character in the very least in tandem with whatever other figure they are supporting and not look at the short term gains but the long term sustainability of what they are doing. Who knows what will happen now?

I keep reading where people say Dawn had her chance and failed to make it. That is kind of absurd since the only way for a figure to take the place of V4 for Poser is by years of content and a steady replacement of her in the store, not a mass rush, but through sustained support. It is time for Poser users to look beyond Daz figures and as far as I am concerned Dawn is the best option for that. HW is also getting ready to release a new edition of her, so she has not gone anywhere despite the predictions that she is somehow obsolete.

"People who attempt define what art is or is not, are not artists"---Luminescence

I'm going to just throw this out there, but aren't we forgetting about Scarlet? She looks to have lots of potential, even enough to overtake V4 as the go-to figure for Poser users. I've been salivating over her since she came out and am seriously considering adding her to my runtime when funds allow. Vendors not only need to expand support, but users need to be willing to go out on a limb every once in a while and support new figures by purchasing them and sharing their experiences. More buyers equals more vendors supporting the figure in question.

Have a creative day!

********

My Lil' Store

I'm going to just throw this out there, but aren't we forgetting about Scarlet? She looks to have lots of potential, even enough to overtake V4 as the go-to figure for Poser users. I've been salivating over her since she came out and am seriously considering adding her to my runtime when funds allow. Vendors not only need to expand support, but users need to be willing to go out on a limb every once in a while and support new figures by purchasing them and sharing their experiences. More buyers equals more vendors supporting the figure in question.

While I purchased Scarlet, liked her, and continue to use her I fear the roasting that the figure got on launch has probably limited the figures future. Also Scarlet was produced by a two person team, as far as I understand, and they are not going to compete with Hivewire3D. I have not written off Dawn and I do feel the figure has potential but there is nothing I have seen done with Dawn that cannot be done with V4WM. I accept that V4 is older but I don't see that has any relevance in regards to a mesh, other than the fact I have been able to work with it for a long time and know what I can and can't do.

Lots of content is a two edge sword, yes a new figure needs a lot of content but then there will be those that complain that they cannot afford to buy new content for any figure.

I also think there are some users that want the market to be as it was with V4 but with a figure that is not V4. I don't think this is possible and for all her age and her faults I do not think we will see the likes for V4 again as regards a 'go to' figure and much as I like V4 that may not be a bad thing.

As many people, for better informed than me have said, Rpublishing has far better ways of making money, with far less risk, than producing another figure.

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

It does make sense. I think it will take a lot and a long time to officially dethrone V4 as a go to figure. But now I'm curious as to how many folks have and use Scarlet and Dawn regularly.

Have a creative day!

********

My Lil' Store

They ever fix that asymmetry issue with Scarlet? I don't have her so I've never looked for myself, just going by the initial uproar. Fixing misalignment in the centers of a rig is one thing, fixing an asymmetrical mesh after launch seems like an incredibly daunting task.

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Even thou Scarlet is a very nice character for only $50.00,they crucified her.
That's the thing about Poserdome ,Poserdome will crucify a character instead of tweaking the character to there liking.

Yes V4 has a lot of content.
Poser the app needs to fix it that any content for V4 or any content made for any character will work on any other character Scarlet ,Dawn ,Roxie etc etc in 1 click.
Poser the app needs to fix it that it's 100x's easier to make content for characters also.
Since Poser 3,4 Days I always thought the way Poser worked was way more complicated n difficult then it needed to be.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

@ EldritchCellar - Don't think so. I never got an update or notification saying there was changes. There was one I think, but it didn't fix all of the issues.

My Renderosity Store

Since Poser 3,4 Days I always thought the way Poser worked was way more complicated n difficult then it needed to be.

And this is why I don't use it for development anymore. Because the minute I saw how easier it was in that other app, I just don't see myself coming back to using the tools here. They are good tools (some of them), but way to over complicated for simple tasks, and half the time you break your brain just trying to get simple things right. It is something they need to focus on to get more people wanting to use the tools again.

My Renderosity Store

Yikes, that's a deal breaker. Totally trashes any kind of brush/tool symmetry functions. Not really an issue if you make clothing and such I imagine. Sixus would have to break all of the base morphs, re-set up all the erc links, jcms, etc. etc. And basically re-release a new .cr2 and .obj? Not sure why Sixus went out on a limb with a realistic human fig when they have such a thriving market with creatures and such. Still think they need a little more competition in the Poser Lovecraftian monster department. Just my rambling observations.

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Well it can be an issue if clothing is made to fit on the existing figure, and they update the figure meaning the clothing will now distort in areas that were adjusted to provide symmetry, since they were developed on the version with no symmetry.

My Renderosity Store

What in your mind ZevO is a simple task that is unnecessarily complicated in Poser? This isn't a smart assed question, just curious. All the file editing?

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Yeah, I guess with tight fitting stuff that would be an issue. I'm not clear on the magnitude of the asymmetry though.

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What in your mind ZevO is a simple task that is unnecessarily complicated in Poser? This isn't a smart assed question, just curious. All the file editing?

Morph saving, rigging bones to match new shapes, there a whole lot where the processes are very much outdated and need to be simplified.

My Renderosity Store

The fitting room makes rigging most clothing pretty painless and quick. If you're working with baggier items then that requires more fine-tuning with falloff zones. But the vast majority of clothing available is skin tight and can be rigged in minutes.

If you're trying to rig clothing in one of the non-pro versions of Poser then I can see how that would be more of a hassle than in other apps.

I'm confused, don't pro features generally become standard in later versions of Poser?

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I'm confused, don't pro features generally become standard in later versions of Poser?

Not since Poser added, this time around, a Pro version. (Most of the Original Poser Pro (Poser 4 era) features went into Poser 5.)

Not that I'm aware of.

Most of the results of the pro features work in the standard versions, they just can't be created in the standard version.

For example, animated joint centers will work in Poser 10, but they can only be created in Pro 2014.

I don't remember if that was a feature in Pro 2012 or if it was new in 2014.

cross-posted with bhoins.

Another thing that's only available in pro version is 64-bit architecture. Has been that way since Pro 2010 i believe.

Here's a feature comparison chart covering all the Poser versions from Poser Game Dev back to Poser 7:

http://my.smithmicro.com/docs/poser/PPGameDev-P10-PP2014-P10-Debut-Feature-Comparison-Matrix.pdf

My bad I did not explain that well enough

I mint Poser and DAZ Studio is way to complicated n difficult to get out fits on a character then needs to be.
and even after the tech hassle I'll never know why they have the characters mouths shut.
The only way I would ever make DAZ Poser character content is to make my own characters for the outfits.

Your out ya bloody mind if you think I'm going to jump threw all those hoops to make a out fit for Roxie ,Scarlet ,Dawn ,Vicky 1 thru 7 etc etc.
for only gross $10.00's. net $3.00's.

I could make more money in the time it takes to make Roxie ,Scarlet ,Dawn ,Vicky 1 thru 7 etc etc outfits buy mowing a few yards.
with a lot less hassle.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

No, I mean, the creation of animated joint centers is a pro feature but will become standard as a creation function in later versions. I realize this is probably OT but I'm curious, I mean otherwise those creation features would be locked into a past version moving forward. So I mean these pro features only remain pro until the next version, so if you're patient eventually you'll have access to these bells and whistles too.

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No, I mean, the creation of animated joint centers is a pro feature but will become standard as a creation function in later versions. I realize this is probably OT but I'm curious, I mean otherwise those creation features would be locked into a past version moving forward. So I mean these pro features only remain pro until the next version, so if you're patient eventually you'll have access to these bells and whistles too.

No, that's not how they've been doing it. The features that are only available in the pro versions continue to only be available in the next pro versions, along with newer features that are, again, only available in the pro version. Whether that remains the case with Poser 11 and on remains to be seen. But that would pretty much defeat the purpose of having a pro version to begin with from a marketing perspective, since more people would just wait it out. Standard Poser is pretty much just an enhanced version of Poser Debut, as far as I understand. I haven't used a standard version of Poser since Poser 7 and I've never used Debut so I can't say for sure. But you can look at the comparison chart I linked to in my previous post to see all the features that have remained only in the pro versions.

Here's the link again:

http://my.smithmicro.com/docs/poser/PPGameDev-P10-PP2014-P10-Debut-Feature-Comparison-Matrix.pdf

Some people find jumping through all those hoops a pleasurable, challenging part of the creative process RorrKonn. You better get yourself some hoop jumping boots if you ever plan on seeing diamond as anything other than a static mesh in Poser. Regardless of what kind of skinning is adopted moving forward.

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Ambientshade, I see. Thanks for the clarification. Guess that's why they invented sales, lol.

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file_1afa34a7f984eeabdbb0a7d494132ee5.jp

Ya, if ya get Poser Pro 14 on sale ,it's all good n won't be much to upgrade to Pro 16 either.
I'm a very big fan of 64 bit also :)

and if you really want to drive your self insane make a mech.
took for ever but I finely figured out how to go about getting what I wanted.
but blue a few processors in the process.Only smart people should attempt to make mechs.
I new the mechs I saw in the movies where wicked killer but I had no idea how difficult they where to make.

They make making characters seem easy,but there's nothing easy about making characters
but my meshes are game meshes so Diamond will never be any thing other then a game mesh .
released for Pro n gameDev with the understanding that if you can't rig,map,texture etc etc ya self don't get Diamond.
cause there will be some assembly required and a lot of tweaking.

it's a lot less dangerous to go swimming with great white sharks then it is to release a character around here. ;)

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Look forward to seeing your progress on finishing these things RorrKonn, I'll keep an eye out for your updates. Might want to consider poly count on those treads though, don't think there's any kind of way to retopo something like that successfully. Certainly not in c4d.

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"and if you really want to drive your self insane make a mech.

took for ever but I finely figured out how to go about getting what I wanted.

but blue a few processors in the process.Only smart people should attempt to make mechs."

Yeah I mostly do organic modeling anymore, the last mechanical thing I made only has 3 bones. It's an elevator car. Poser render.

file_ec5decca5ed3d6b8079e2e7e7bacc9f2.jp file_013d407166ec4fa56eb1e1f8cbe183b9.jp file_a8baa56554f96369ab93e4f3bb068c22.jp

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Thanks EldritchCellar

Ya ,I'd like to see all the meshes done my self.
but they worked me a lot last month and this month don't seem to be any lighter.
They just don't seem to get me playing with my hobby is more important then them ;)

Ya I'm wondering off the high end here with the mechs polycount,
I'll make them as low polycount as I can but I'm going after a look that is going to cost a few more polygons.
this kind of mech stuff is new to me so there's a lot of I don't know ,guess will find out at the end.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

EldritchCellar That's a nice looking elevator car :)

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

The biggest problem for me with new figures is the expectation you have to rebuy every item you've ever bought again. It is like having to rebuy every music album every several years because we're changing from records to 8 tracks to cassettes to cds. At some point you go enough is enough and go with what you have the most of. If I could use my v4 stuff with v7, I'd probably be ok with switching to v7, But I know that Daz will replace v7 in a year or 2, so what is the point?

Being an artist, I want to spend my time creating art, not constantly reconfiguring all my content to the latest figure. I also don't want to be forced to create my own content due to a lack of content available. And this means useful content for me. V4 may have a ton of sexy content, but it has also collected over time a bunch of other, more everyday and functional content as well. To have to wait for that to be replaced on new figures would take forever, seeing as most content put out is made for exotic dancers, bedroom scenes, and such. Not that Im against that sort of thing,, but I also like normal content as well :p

Which brings me to the point of I don't think the v4 market for items has been tapped out. It may be tapped out though for certain products, like lingerie and sexy poses. There should be plenty of room for v4 fantasy armor or sci fi outfits that aren't made for strippers. And m4 content as an entirety is lacking, especially when compared to v4. There are literally more underwear sets for v4 than the entire catalogue of every type of m4 clothes possible. Someone who made decent m4 clothing could probably do quite well for themselves. Or maybe not, maybe the whole casual render industry is porn based, I have no idea :)

The biggest problem for me with new figures is the expectation you have to rebuy every item you've ever bought again. It is like having to rebuy every music album every several years because we're changing from records to 8 tracks to cassettes to cds. At some point you go enough is enough and go with what you have the most of. If I could use my v4 stuff with v7, I'd probably be ok with switching to v7, But I know that Daz will replace v7 in a year or 2, so what is the point?

Being an artist, I want to spend my time creating art, not constantly reconfiguring all my content to the latest figure. I also don't want to be forced to create my own content due to a lack of content available. And this means useful content for me. V4 may have a ton of sexy content, but it has also collected over time a bunch of other, more everyday and functional content as well. To have to wait for that to be replaced on new figures would take forever, seeing as most content put out is made for exotic dancers, bedroom scenes, and such. Not that Im against that sort of thing,, but I also like normal content as well :p

Which brings me to the point of I don't think the v4 market for items has been tapped out. It may be tapped out though for certain products, like lingerie and sexy poses. There should be plenty of room for v4 fantasy armor or sci fi outfits that aren't made for strippers. And m4 content as an entirety is lacking, especially when compared to v4. There are literally more underwear sets for v4 than the entire catalogue of every type of m4 clothes possible. Someone who made decent m4 clothing could probably do quite well for themselves. Or maybe not, maybe the whole casual render industry is porn based, I have no idea :)

I think the point people miss when supporting new figures is that it's NEW content is what drives adoption. Vendors or stores do not make any money from you reusing your items, and that's what really determines a figure's success. No one would have to switched to CD if there weren't new artists that had albums only in CD format. Same with digital formats... it was a new way for customers to use their content, and those savvy enough could make their own music in digital formats or convert their albums over to use the new format. Nothing is different here. So yes, to get adoption going on a figure you do have to invest, otherwise, just keep using your old figure, because the new figure will just fail if you think you can just reuse all your old stuff. There would be no need to vendors to make anything.

Recreating the same items, but for new figures, is not making new content, it is recycling old content but hoping to profit from them. Many artists realize this, which is why new figures don't succeed. If you are offering a new figure, but there really isn't all that noticeable an improvement, but you want me to rebuy all the money I've already spent, that won't happen :p Now, if a vendor creates something I find interesting, I purchase it, as my item history suggests, seeing as I've bought over 300 items at renderosity alone. If daz or whoever thinks I want to rebuy all those items though because they've added a few small features, they are crazy, and I think a lot of artists are like myself.

Recreating the same items, but for new figures, is not making new content, it is recycling old content but hoping to profit from them. Many artists realize this, which is why new figures don't succeed. If you are offering a new figure, but there really isn't all that noticeable an improvement, but you want me to rebuy all the money I've already spent, that won't happen :p Now, if a vendor creates something I find interesting, I purchase it, as my item history suggests, seeing as I've bought over 300 items at renderosity alone. If daz or whoever thinks I want to rebuy all those items though because they've added a few small features, they are crazy, and I think a lot of artists are like myself.

Regardless of what you consider new content... the bottom line is: if you don't invest in the new figure, it fails.

If you are offering a new figure, but there really isn't all that noticeable an improvement,

If daz or whoever thinks I want to rebuy all those items though because they've added a few small features

Yes. Unnoticeable improvements.

I don't know if it would be a very good idea for RP to make their own figure right now (or ever). With the seemingly ever increasing divide between Poser and DS, and not knowing what SM will introduce with the next version of Poser, it would be a huge gamble for them.

Just a quick response to all the discussion on Scarlet. I have the utmost respect for Sixus1, but to be brutally honest, the promo renders are not what you would expect for a figure that is supposed to take advantage of all the new tech in Poser. Seriously, take a critical look at them, and they are are not really up to the current Poser standards. They do nothing to catch your attention and say "WOW, I've got to have that figure!" (like Blackhearted does with his work). I really don't like to nit-pick, but the first images you see of her have here in shoes that are simply too big for her feet (and very unattractive). She may well be an outstanding figure, but IMHO none of the promo renders do anything to inspire me to pay $49.95 for her. It looks to me like none of the promo renders use any of the advanced rendering functions in the last two versions of Poser (like SSS). That alone makes me very wary and ask myself "What is wrong with the figure that it couldn't be rendered any better than this?"

Again, Scarlet may be a great figure that incorporates and the new tech in Poser, but the promo renders don't make her look that great. Some renders like this one: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/?image_id=2622753 would have gone a long way to making her look more "modern", and inspiring people to purchase her. This also feeds into figure support. If the promo renders don't inspire, then vendors will take a wait and see attitude/approach.

I really don't mean to offend anyone with this post, but so often I see products that may be outstanding, and people even recommend them as being great,, but the promo renders kind of scare me away from purchasing. This is all basic Marketing 101.

__________________________________________________________

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Agreed. First impressions are important and if your promos do a poor job at showcasing your figure or are not visually outstanding, well........I mean they didn't even smooth out the jaggered edges when they pasted her on a backdrop and the highlights are washed out. Way too much contrast. I mean you spend 6 years on the figure, at least give it some wow factor promos and if you are not capable of doing so, give the responsibility to somebody who can.

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eyes eyes eyes... the eyes have it...

and in terms of Scarlett, i cast my own eyes away due to hers because of how they appeared in the promos and first blush banner ads...

New figures suffer through the same thing new MMOs suffer through. Every new MMO gets compared to Wow and is expected to compete out of the box,which really isn't fair given the amount of time and resources already poured into WoW, but it is what it is. If you want a new figure to compete with v4, you need stability, content, and good publicity, else you'll be doomed from the start.

Did Sixus1 say it took 6 years to make Scarlet ?
For most it more like a day to sculpt it ,a day to retopologize it.1 hour to map it.3 hours to texture it.2 days to rig it, more or less.

You all worry about Promo's a lot .
I can talk for any other CGI Artist but I spend all my time making meshes.
Very little time rendering. I'm all but worthless at rendering.

I like some of the cloths,buildings and all and who don't like sexy lingerie .but a lot of the content sold isn't original and bores me .
Sixus1 is original and has imagination.

I know every one says for a character to succeed they need venders support.
Maybe every ones definition of success is different.

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Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Well a mainstream human figure needs add ons for versatility (support), imagine if the only texture available for V4 were the default purple undies? I'm curious, you don't seem to have much of a vested artistic interest (or even utilization knowledge of) in Poser why it is you've chosen the Poser forum to be a regular at RorrKonn? This question could be misconstrued as mean spirited but it's not. Just curious. I mean if you don't render with it, you don't rig with it, what do you do with it?

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Just cause a few people crucified Scarlet or just cause a few venders didn't make Scarlet stuff ,Don't matter .
Sixus1 has successfully released Scarlet for Poser.

Back in the Day when I first started CGI My very first CGI App's where TrueSpace 4 ,Corel 8. then Poser 4.
I had some Poser Renders in my gallery that where 500x500 pixels .windows 98 screens where around 640x480 pixels .
I took them down cause there to small now.
Been on this forum since Poser 4 days ,guess that would be around 1998 .
Poser Users taught me a lot about CGI.I still learn stuff from here.
Watched the Users fight like hell to get Poser to do all kinds of cool stuff.
I still believe in and support Poserdome.

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Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Something Rpublishing should do