so, who is using poser to render pron?

or who isn't making pron? lol

did curious labs know it might happen?

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IIRC, Curious Labs released a user poll, back in the P5 days, asking how we used Poser. One of the options was porn. The Poser Team, at least, has had a longstanding awareness of how some use their products.

On edit: Going back even further, Renderotica used to be an erotic sub-forum of Renderosity, back before it was split off into a separate site. Early membership at Rotica included a larger portion of Rosity's heavy hitters of the era than you might guess, to look at what that adult Poser site has since become. The Poser community was a bit different back then. Arguably, IMO, the internet was different back then.

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"so, who is using poser to render pron?"

See your quote below for the answer.

"or who isn't making pron? lol"

More like it

"did curious labs know it might happen? "

More to the point, why should they have cared?

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Tell you a story: Several years ago I found a male character that I liked, and bought it. When I opened it up, I found that there was no texture there for his genitals. I actually wrote the creator and asked why this had been omitted (I actually figured it was an error she would have wanted to correct!)

The answer I got was: "There is no genital texture. I don't want him used to make porn."

Hate to break it to her... it took me about 2 minutes to come up with a texture that worked just fine. So much for trying to control what other people do.

if i bought a character without gens texture, it was by accident >.<

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Nope. Although I used to draw pornographic comics years ago... before Poser. I don't really see the point, there's already enough real porn for everybody. But then I don't get photorealism either, even from a painting perspective. I can kinda get it with cg, where the technology is aiming for emulation of real world phenomena, but from an art perspective? Ok, it looks exactly like a photograph. One can hope that the photo says something more than the thing itself. Anyway, problem is... with pornography, after you have an orgasm what use does it have? Similar to watching someone eat or defecate, wow fascinating. I suppose there's some vicarious thrill of putting Barbie and Ken in naughty positions? Really, kinda pathetic. Does anyone consider real world producers of pornography to be creating meaningful or interesting works of art on any level other than point A point B? But, maybe I'm wrongly applying the incorrect term art when considering porn. I think that works that meditate on desire or beauty are great, porn's just for wacking off. Just some thoughts.

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I've done the occasional nude render for purposes of testing texture seams and the like, but rarely post the results.

I don't create porn. The communities are already glutted with those who do and, given my lack of enthusiasm, I doubt I'd be very good at it, so I'll just leave it to the professionals.

None of my figures have visible genitalia, anyway. Of course, that doesn't stop people ....

there is a glutt of porn renders, i agree, but badly rendered porn. not the same as well rendered porn lol. very few.

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Some of Erogenesis' work is very nice. Unique I think. I used to like some of RajDarj's Renderotica renders. Davo's stuff is pretty cool for outright abject weirdness (in measured doses). Have to admit I haven't been to Rotica in ages, and I don't look too much at that kind of work anymore. I don't consider nudes (even with splayed genitalia) pornography per se, kinda straddles the line between porn and aesthetic beauty. I like traditional media or 2d for the pin up stuff though, really like Range Murata and Shunya Yamashita in that realm lately. Strong design elements in that stuff.

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To answer the original post : I'm sure there are folks using poser to render porn. Poser is a tool, and in the EULA, it did not specify that the user(s) are prohibited to render porn. As with this site. I don't see any porn renders posted. The last time I read the TOS, pornographic renders are not allowed on this site. There is a fine line between porn and erotica, and it is usually defined by the viewer's perspective. Even the supreme court has stated vaguely "We know it when we see it" There are folks from many countries, cultures, religious beliefs visiting this site. Each one has their own views on this subject. I just hope that all of you keep an open mind and don't force your own 'morals' on others. If you think an image is offensive and violates the TOS, please report it to the administrators. Art is subjective, that's part of the fun.

Render on. JV

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Yeah, I played around with it when I first got Poser 8. Morbid curiosity the blame. It didn't do anything for me. Now, I render nudes but usually in a test render setting or something else to do with a model I am working on, or to test render settings, whatever. And I know there will some who deny ever doing it, and that's fine. As JV said, it's a tool and one we are fairly free to express ourselves as we see fit.

I've been on Renderotica, and those guys and gals over there have taken it to a level I never want to spend that much time attaining.

EDIT: on another note, when trying to explain my hobby to the uninitiated, I've often had to open Poser, drop in one of the female models and show how to morph, pose, whatever. Inevitably, the first thing out of their mouths is "hey, she's got nice (insert body part). Do you ever make porn with this?"

I think it's something we outgrow the longer we do this, and the more involved we get with creating something we think is worthwhile. I am more into modeling now, and I usually only use Poser to work on the models I create. I do test renders, set up materials, create cr2's. I don't often create a nice scene to render, which is something I will need to work on as I get closer to creating my comic.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

porn was around long before poser...............lots made in world of Warcraft for example poser just made it easy for people to make ..........even people with no drawing skills can still create

Well, totally OT, but I just wanted to say. Hi, Little_Dragon, LTNS. :)

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yeah forget porn!! I am thrilled to see Little Dragon make an appearance!!!

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heddheld posted at 10:09AM Mon, 05 October 2015 - #4232309

porn was around long before poser...............lots made in world of Warcraft for example poser just made it easy for people to make ..........even people with no drawing skills can still create

warcraft hentai, yep, tee hee - some of it's excellent art

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Not me....

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from time to time yes

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I have, from time to time. Very extremely rare instances, though... I never feel satisfied with the result.

 

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People's definition of porn is going to vary. For me, it's images/vids/etc with the express purpose of assisting a viewer in attaining sexual satisfaction. With that definition in mind, no, I've never made any. It's possible some of my images might be arousing to someone, but that's not my specific intent. On the other hand, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would call a small few of my pics porn. But then there are plenty who would call any 14th century Madonna with exposed breasts porn, too.

I'm guessing, based on the kinds of images I used to see on Renderotica, that much of the porn that's rendered is the sort that would be somewhat more challenging to produce with live models. Torture porn, for instance. You'd have to use CGI to get some of the effects I've seen -- or live in a jurisdiction that permitted almost-snuff films -- and the kind of CGI that can be convincingly blended with film of live models is way beyond the budgets of most porn, I'd think. Then again, maybe I'm just way wrong. Maybe, once porn is being rendered, a certain percentage of peeps will naturally start producing images and animations of roped up babes having dangerous looking intercourse with complicated alien machines.

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Ditto on the Great to see you, Little Dragon! Hey, maybe there's things about 2016 that's bringing the Poser 12 out of the woodwork!

As for 'porn'.... Considering the nebulosity of the term, everyone does porn. Everyone. One personal sci fi script project I need to get back to would send most into spasms for one reason or another. But. The current functioning definition of 'porn' is "I'll know it when I see it!" For a foot fetishist, for example, a fully clothed render with a teasingly exposed bare foot and delicately sculpted toes could have them sitting there panting and thumping their own paw on the floor like a Cocker Spaniel with a half dozen kids rubbing its belly correctly. The naked bits and hunka-chunka actions are only the crudest, simplistic examples of the art. As we are talking about what turns humans on, and humans are such individual entities, despite the attempts at pack or herd behavior, well..... They know it when they see it. And just because no one else sees it doesn't make it any less porn to their minds. And that is where things truly happen.

if we gonna say porn is anything that arouses us, watching a man wash the dishes and clean the kitch = porn. lol

i like to define porn as spiritually uplifting, by that definition most of what's on rotka wouldn't be porn - is more like shock tropes.

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I think you spelled Prawn wrong. :)

I agree with moriador, is there porn and porn. IMO by definition the sexual act is a porn act, now everyone interpret this as "he" want. Sexual bestiality, pain (contradictory), adults with childs, animals etc are forbiden for me. Another side you have sensual porn like Dorcel, french readers will agree with me. It's this one i prefer, nudity, sexual act but all in sensuality, no butcher.

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There is a difference between erotica and porn, generally I see porn as something which is without social value. But who determines whether something is of value? Then you have the idea of obscenity, which further muddies the waters. Yeah, I had critical theory classes and graduated with a 3.9 gpa from one of the most liberal art institutions in america. Lol. To see things in shades of gray goes without saying... Torture Porn? Guess it potentially keeps dangerous sadistic individuals locked away in their mom's basements, so maybe it has social value?

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I tell you one thing that is certain, the Poser art community would be jettisoning silver like a slot machine if unintentional kitsch were a material commodity.

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Erotica, yes, I've done that. Prefer it to pure porn, yet I've done a scene years ago that involved a certain Potions Master and some ritual :cough: wand polishing. I am embarrassed to say I got important details completely wrong the first time around and had to consult an expert, yet that one NC-17 (or maybe XXX?) rated work got the most positive feedback of any of my art. Perhaps it was because of the audience, or perhaps because of the story and characterization in the render, I may never know. But if I need a sex scene in a story or if the story I want to tell with my art involves sexuality, then I'll go for it. May not all be NC-17 or XXX but certainly a hard "R".

Funny thing is, I have a gallery at R'otica but rarely post there now and seldom visit the site. I guess their taste in porn and mine aren't the same; it's gotten a bit too hardcore and what's a good word, uncultured, for me. Torture porn? No thanks, it may have a place in a spy story or a horror piece, but certainly not as explicit as what some folks there tend to go for. I find things like that are best left to the imagination, which can conjure up sex and violence, among other things, far, far better than Poser ever could.

tl;dr "A feather is kinky, a whole bird -- or a dead pig's head -- well that's just plain perverted."

EldritchCellar posted at 7:35PM Tue, 06 October 2015 - #4232606

There is a difference between erotica and porn, generally I see porn as something which is without social value. But who determines whether something is of value? Then you have the idea of obscenity, which further muddies the waters. Yeah, I had critical theory classes and graduated with a 3.9 gpa from one of the most liberal art institutions in america. Lol. To see things in shades of gray goes without saying... Torture Porn? Guess it potentially keeps dangerous sadistic individuals locked away in their mom's basements, so maybe it has social value?

Research suggests a correlation between high rates of porn viewing in a population and lower rates of sexual violence, so there may indeed by some clear social value to even the violent variety of porn. As for ordinary pornography, I have a bit of trouble believing that something that almost every male engages in at some point or other (and more than a few, I'd guess, regularly) is somehow immoral, unnatural, or of no social value. Surely completely safe, cheap, and convenient satisfaction of people's sexual urges is useful to society? Seems far, far better to me than repressing such urges, in any case.

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"so, who is using poser to render porn? "

I am. I think I definitely am.

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there nowhere to post a lil prawno animation?

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I love prawns, but I am unfamiliar with this spelling ;-)

My Toon People characters, which are free, are made without genitals, and we exclude their use for that purpose in the license. The female characters do have boobies though. I just didn't want Toon Santa to show up in something unsavory. But you can porn out in any of our building models, just as easily as stepping into a real estate demo house to do it.

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Lack of genitals on a figure is no way to make it porn proof, as anyone who owns Hiro 3 can attest. Lots of third party remedies out there to cure a bad case of "Ken Doll Syndrome." Still wouldn't wanna see a Toon Santa -- yours or anybody else's -- going at it, though. Some things are just ... Polite phrasing would be "Not my cuppa". Less polite: "Argh! My innocent eyes! Pass the brain bleach! Damnit, Jim, I'm a doctor not a pervert!" You get the picture. Or not, if you're lucky. ;-)

couple years ago rdna sent out there email with a horror santa in it. i unsubscribed after that.
whatever happened to the jolly ho ho ho guy?

i heard pp14 has softbody physics? no body made jiggly bewbies? lol jiggly wiggly willies?

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I am just happy that this topic, this thread doesn't have any multiple advisories attached to it yet.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

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Don't worry, odds are we'll eventually get there. Nature of the beast and all that. Jiggly bits? A whole heap of great big bouncing boobies over at Renderotica last time I looked. Not sure if they're using PP14 to do it, though, since the poses are all for doing animation and I have not a clue about that. They might even have wiggly willies, but I ain't seen any yet. Too busy trying to find something like this: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/kinky-bodysuit/104742/ for the guys. With a few additions it's the perfect outfit for a character I'm working on. I'm thinking M4 but can adapt to V4 male if need be since he's more the bishie type than the more muscles than brains brigade he and his kinda James Bond-ish partner keep running into. (Yeah, they're spies. Been revisiting some TV favorites from the 60s and my muse finally decided to take notice. Twisted old tart insists I make Blondie wear nothing but catsuits, the slinkier the better.) Ideas, anyone? I tried the M4 bodysuit, but the zipper just doesn't go down far enough. :sigh: It ain't easy being sleazy. Especially if your name's not Vicky, you haven't got a sword, and there's n'ar a temple in sight.

Sorry....

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

No you're not........ ;P

No, but I tried to sound sincere!

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EldritchCellar posted at 3:33PM Sun, 11 October 2015 - #4232250

Nope. Although I used to draw pornographic comics years ago... before Poser. I don't really see the point, there's already enough real porn for everybody. But then I don't get photorealism either, even from a painting perspective. I can kinda get it with cg, where the technology is aiming for emulation of real world phenomena, but from an art perspective? Ok, it looks exactly like a photograph. One can hope that the photo says something more than the thing itself. Anyway, problem is... with pornography, after you have an orgasm what use does it have? Similar to watching someone eat or defecate, wow fascinating. I suppose there's some vicarious thrill of putting Barbie and Ken in naughty positions? Really, kinda pathetic. Does anyone consider real world producers of pornography to be creating meaningful or interesting works of art on any level other than point A point B? But, maybe I'm wrongly applying the incorrect term art when considering porn. I think that works that meditate on desire or beauty are great, porn's just for wacking off. Just some thoughts.

I really don't want to defend porn, as I have multiple issues with the business of it, its attitudes toward race and age etc. But I will anyway, since there's one that sticks in my mind.

I grew up thinking that professional wrestling was the stupidest thing ever. I didn't understand the appeal of scripted conflicts and choreographed combat, the apparent formulaic nature of most matches, the seemingly simplistic good guy/bad guy dynamic, etc. etc... But because of a friend I started watching televised matches anyway, and it wasn't long until I saw a few really good matches. These matches on paper were no different than what I described. They were every bit as formulaic, scripted and choreographed as the ones which did not capture my imagination. But in reality they were something else entirely... With proper build-up I found I could care about these conflicts. When properly performed by top stars they didn't look choreographed. When the stars had true chemistry they were able to transcend simplistic character tropes and make themselves, for that moment at least, believable.

Realizing that there were bad, good and even great matches changed my entire perspective on wrestling. When you see a match that you know you will remember for years despite all of the average matches you know you will immediately forget, you realize it is in some way a form of art, that there is some intangible something that separates the memorable from the forgettable and that thing is what the best of those performers aspire to capture.

Similarly, I have seen adult productions that defy such easy dismissal.

I have seen so much porn now that your average, run-of-the-mill production does absolutely nothing for me. The women are obviously faking it. You can tell if you pay attention as to which hour of filming they were in during the different phases of the scene by how well the stud is able to maintain his manhood. It's all so mundane now. I've become jaded to it, and I have to search far and wide to find something that gets my attention. There isn't much out there any longer that does that. So my viewership has fallen off significantly. And 3D/CGI isn't the answer. It doesn't matter if it's a still render or an animation. Zero response for me. So I don't watch it and I definitely don't produce it.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

been reading oglaf all night >.<

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That's erotica, I think. There's both nudity and a sex act in that image despite you saying otherwise though.

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I have used poser (at first) and now Daz to create adult art that focuses on leather and s& m as well as spanking and bondage. The figures I use are primarily male (Michael 6) and I look forward to Michael 7 when it's released. I think using 3d art is a great way to express human sexuality in all its many variations.

I would say that insertion of a sex toy is a sexual act, and so I would be more inclined to label it porn rather than erotica, nudity or not. After all, not all porn is made with nude performers :)

Good pic to illustrate the point of what is/isn't though, as it to me is harder than Erotica, but still below outright pornography. Maybe soft-core, rather than hard-core. Excellent expressing of feeling/emotion in it.

Either way, porn doesn't bother me, and so long as it's done well, it can look very good indeed.

An obviously very well arranged and rendered scene I think, probably what I like best about the image is the idea of the mirror and self... which I'll assume was an intentional metaphor as opposed to just being an illustrative choice. I get the feeling that there's someone on the other side of the door that's had too many martinis and needs to pee. Lol.

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I suppose a big concern for many is how explicit the image is. I have very little interest in bondage (I do dig the fashion though) and no interest in gore or depictions of extreme suffering. On the other hand, I do love the works of artists like Masamune Shirow, and Paolo Eleuteri Serpieri. Somewhere between cheesecake/fan service and modern XXX might be my happy medium. Beyond that and I get an icky feeling.

But it's not specifically the moral aspect that has kept me away from seriously attempting adult imagery/animation. Physical contact, especially sexual contact, really pushes the limits of the tools I have at my disposal. Joint bending, body mass inertia, believable hands-on contact... It's only a minority of CG artists who have the skill or patience to depict those things correctly.

Renderosity's Terms of Service do not allow posting of pornographic content or images on this site.

No Posting Unacceptable Images or Writing Themes:

No Rape [actual or implied]

No Torture [defined as: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, wounding, crucifixion) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure]

No Sexual acts [no depictions of sexual intercourse - between humanoids/non-humanoids/animals - no masturbation]

No Physical arousal [This includes but is not exclusive to: no images of an erect penis/ no images showing the inner portion of the vulva or vaginal area]

No Explicit sexual content [No manipulation of breasts/nipples/ no sexual situations/ no 'implied" sexual acts/ no extreme or explicit S&M bondage situations/ no lewd or >obscene sexual references]

No Genital contact with ANY object, other than sitting or clothing.

This is a warning to those involved. I've deleted the last two images. You can discuss the topic if you can keep it within the TOS.

ETA: An image tagged with nudity still has to comply with the tos.

Sure, understood. Although the image I posted is about as pornographic as a v4 torso map.

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If I want to see 3D pron ,I just look threw the stores ;)

bad joke ,bad joke ,but I just couldn't help my self .

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Yeah, bad joke. But also kind of true. Some of the ads on this site are softcore porn.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

moriador posted at 8:35PM Tue, 13 October 2015 - #4233231

There is nudity on this pictureor i'm wrong ? Animals nudity is allowed ? Putting a cow head on V4 and let her being fu.... by a horse BIG LOL

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AmbientShade posted at 8:40PM Tue, 13 October 2015 - #4233422

Renderosity's Terms of Service do not allow posting of pornographic content or images on this site.

No Posting Unacceptable Images or Writing Themes:

No Rape [actual or implied]

No Torture [defined as: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, wounding, crucifixion) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure]

No Sexual acts [no depictions of sexual intercourse - between humanoids/non-humanoids/animals - no masturbation]

No Physical arousal [This includes but is not exclusive to: no images of an erect penis/ no images showing the inner portion of the vulva or vaginal area]

No Explicit sexual content [No manipulation of breasts/nipples/ no sexual situations/ no 'implied" sexual acts/ no extreme or explicit S&M bondage situations/ no lewd or >obscene sexual references]

No Genital contact with ANY object, other than sitting or clothing.

This is a warning to those involved. I've deleted the last two images. You can discuss the topic if you can keep it within the TOS.

ETA: An image tagged with nudity still has to comply with the tos.

I think you need to see the thumb gallery, you'll have a lot of work.

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The two first pages !

Capture_thumb.JPG man nipples and woman nipples without advisory thumb.

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We don't use content advisory thumbs in the galleries anymore. That is what the filters in profile settings are for. Those that are there are being uploaded by the users.

'Man nipples' is not nudity.

Chuckle.

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Man nipples' is not nudity.

If i understand you filter what is nudity and not just as you want. Excuse me but man or woman torso nude is nudity or i miss something when i was to school ;)

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Ambientshade seems to be the mod that steps in and sets things right when there's some confusion over an appropriate course of action over particular posts. Or so it seems after observing the forum dynamics for a while. It's probably futile to argue semantics with the guy that carries the stick, no?

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Does the TOS allow adult toys in an image if they are not being used for adult purposes, just as a bit of clutter on a shelf maybe? Or a scene where somebody picks one up and goes "WTF is this?" or "Oops, didn't know THAT was there!" In Texas there's a student protest going on where participants will carry giant plastic dildos in response to a change in the university's policy to allow (more? open carry?) guns on campus. Which has given me a few ideas for some rather amusing renders.

There was a playboy joke cartoon where a boy used his mom's bedroom companion as the nose of a snowman. No nudity, not being used in a sex act. Would that be allowed here?

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Oh, and speaking of Playboy... they recently announced that they would no longer feature nude women in their magazine. I believe it may be because magazines like Maxim and FHM are getting a lot more readership without resorting to nudes.

"I only read it for the articles!"

Yeah, right.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

Gotta admit, I thought that "No naked women in Playboy from now on" story was another internet hoax or an article from the Onion that the regular news stations had picked up on -- hey it's happened before. Then I went to their site and yep, it's true. Nothing more explicit than you'd see in a Victoria's Secret catalog maybe come February 2016. I guess they decided since the internet really is for porn after all, and free porn at that, it was time to try something else. Wonder if they realize the internet, not to mention TV and magazines and catalogs and Poser too is full of scantily clad females? So if they want to stay in business as a magazine, it's gonna have to be on the basis of their articles. And sell clothing and whatever else they can slap a Bunny logo on.

I own a few issues myself, special celebrity editions with the old movie stars in them. And yes, I did read the articles. All in all, pretty good. But then again, I am not a heterosexual male, so I really can't speak for anyone in that category who claims "It's only for the articles!" when the mother, wife or significant other discovers his stash. I do, however, take such claims with a honkin' big heap of salt.

haven't seen a Playgirl in over 20 years.

and i didn't buy the mag for the articles. lol

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Did you all know that the Puritans who first formed the British colonies... they started slavery. It wasn't the Spanish in Meso-America and South America. It was the Puritans. They not only began the near genocide of the native American peoples... they also introduced slavery as a skin based market.

They also are to blame for why we are afraid today to say porn and so say pron. In Europe they don't have this hang up. This is a completely English puritanical thing which has gone way way out of hand in the United States.

A Puritan asks "does anyone make porn with Poser?' The rest of the world asks... "Is Poser only used to make porn?"

Because that's what all non-Poser artists are thinking

My first exposure to "dirty books" was those old men's magazines from the 50s & 60s, you know the ones that had the black censor bars all over them. I was about 11 or 12 and had found my uncle's mostly forgotten stash while hunting for some comic books he said I could borrow. Never knew what all the fuss was about from the bits I could see. But they had some very good short stories in them and that summer I got hooked on hard boiled detective fiction. All because of porn.

Playgirl? Yeah, I bought one of those too, sometime in the 90's. Needed some nude male art references and it was the only thing available at the time. We used to buy a lot of porn back in art school. It was a community college with emphasis on commercial art not fine but some of us were into comics and our professor didn't see anything wrong with us using Playboy and Playgirl since live models were not available. Not to mention probably not in the budget. My strict Catholic high school teachers, many of whom were nuns, would have been horrified. My old classmates, on the other hand, would have died from envy that I got to see all that hot, sweaty naked flesh while they went on to secretarial or nursing or business degrees or got married right after prom. So yeah, I'm kinda fond of what the Puritans label smut.

Awesomeness, Byrdie!! :)

The puritans started slavery? So slavery did not exist before the puritans is what you are saying?

I think the first porn mag I ever saw was a friend's older brother's stash. It was called 'fuck mates'... when this friend was telling me about it, before he finally showed it to me, I mistakenly thought he was saying 'fuck mints'. So I was like nagging him to show me the magazine, "C'mon man, show me the fuck mints!".

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My old man was a truck driver. His stash was epic.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

[Byrdie]

I own a few issues myself, special celebrity editions with the old movie stars in them. And yes, I did read the articles. All in all, pretty good. But then again, I am not a heterosexual male, so I really can't speak for anyone in that category who claims "It's only for the articles!" when the mother, wife or significant other discovers his stash. I do, however, take such claims with a honkin' big heap of salt.

I am a heterosexual male, but honestly always felt the articles truly were the only reason to read Playboy. The girls were all too similar, either the "girl next door" or "rich daddy's girl gone off to college"... Thin, blonde, airbrushed and not my cup of tea at all. (The kind of girls upward moving American men in the 1950s-70s sought for trophy wives?) Too modestly posed to even be provocative, just easy on the eyes and nothing more.
That said, they did keep it classy enough that an attractive celebrity could indeed undress for their cameras without ruining her reputation.

Yeah, I think it was the classiness that made Playboy more than just another "under the counter" men's book. You had A-list stars on the cover and getting naked for the cameras at a time when even a whiff of scandal, especially if it involved anything remotely sexual, could and did ruin many a career. Be seen snogging somebody else's husband when it wasn't part of the script? Can't have that, fire the trollop. Be seen in Playboy as Miss September? No big deal, great career move. All part of the Hollywood Sex Symbol mystique. :sigh: Those days are long gone. We now have the likes of the Kardashians and Miley Cyrus or whomever baring it all while swinging on a ball. Class is out, sleaze is in.

Damn, I'm getting old!

Did you all know that the Puritans who first formed the British colonies... they started slavery. It wasn't the Spanish in Meso-America and South America. It was the Puritans. They not only began the near genocide of the native American peoples... they also introduced slavery as a skin based market.

**Unless you're trying to invent an issue........ slavery was common in China 2000 years before the puritans ever existed.... In Africa slavery has been around for thousands of years. The Puritans were certainly NOT the cause of slavery nor were they the anti-porn people. If you wish to learn where most of our anti-sex laws came from read the life story of Anthony Comstock. **

Slavery has existed as long as humanity has existed. It has always been part of human culture.

DreaminGirl posted at 2:24AM Sat, 17 October 2015 - #4233995

Slavery has existed as long as humanity has existed. It has always been part of human culture.

Despite the long human history of slave trading various periods of trade can indeed be marked as having beginnings and ends. I was always under the impression that what made slavery in the US (which I understood the above comment to be referring to, right or wrong) unique was the uncommon racial aspect. People of one color having slaves exclusively of another color. Even though slavery was a practice within Africa at the time, 19th century Euro-Americans were enslaving Africans exclusively, never their own people nor people of any other race. Asians were certainly exploited but I don't recall the notion of ownership ever being applied to them nor to the Scots-Irish miners in Appalachia.

Byrdie posted at 2:33AM Sat, 17 October 2015 - #4233936

Yeah, I think it was the classiness that made Playboy more than just another "under the counter" men's book. You had A-list stars on the cover and getting naked for the cameras at a time when even a whiff of scandal, especially if it involved anything remotely sexual, could and did ruin many a career. Be seen snogging somebody else's husband when it wasn't part of the script? Can't have that, fire the trollop. Be seen in Playboy as Miss September? No big deal, great career move. All part of the Hollywood Sex Symbol mystique. :sigh: Those days are long gone. We now have the likes of the Kardashians and Miley Cyrus or whomever baring it all while swinging on a ball. Class is out, sleaze is in.

Damn, I'm getting old!

I associate sleaze with exploitation. It's easy to look back at the Golden Age starlets and think they were inherently more classy than the divas and bad-girl celebs of today. But if Miley really wants to perform in the nude, if she's not being put up to it or coerced into it, I don't think that makes her a bad person. I wouldn't want my daughter, if I had one, to necessarily emulate that particular choice... But I wouldn't want my daughter to think that her body was something to be ashamed of, or that showing it off automatically makes her some kind of lowbrow trash, either. Women have an undeniable power in their sexuality, and words like slut and sleaze are too often code words used by those who fear or would prefer to control that power.

Reminds me of that picture (it goes around Facebook from time to time) of the modestly dressed stars at the adult video awards beside the barely covered mainstream celebrities at a music awards event.

I once smoked a cigarette in front of a cafe with a random Jamaican man... He looks at me and says "We're in Babylon." I said "What makes you say that?" He responded: "When you see the men being turned into slaves and the women being turned into whores, it means you are in Babylon".

moogal posted at 8:55PM Sat, 17 October 2015 - #4234035

DreaminGirl posted at 2:24AM Sat, 17 October 2015 - #4233995

Despite the long human history of slave trading various periods of trade can indeed be marked as having beginnings and ends. I was always under the impression that what made slavery in the US (which I understood the above comment to be referring to, right or wrong) unique was the uncommon racial aspect. People of one color having slaves exclusively of another color. ...

Actually... no.

It has been very common for a people in one culture to enslave those of another culture, regardless of skin color. Slavery has been largely culturally discriminate, except in the cases of indentured slaves or those captured in warfare as "the enemy." In the period you're speaking about, Western sensibilities may have, indeed, balked at the idea of other "Westerners" (white people) being enslaved, but, even so, forms of slavery for "whites" did exist and they, along with black slaves or indentured servants, were also considered "personal property."

The first slaves in the Americas were.. white.

http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/ http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

Later, slavery laws changed a bit and instead of indentured servitude for blacks, true slavery was the norm. No longer was it practically possible for a slave to earn their freedom if their master refused it. Black slavery became much more economically viable and could be more easily justified by the culturally, morally, intellectually "superior" slave owners. Thus, it became much more difficult to use such justifications with fellow whites/Westerners.

A common theme was one of "ethical duty" to instruct the "inferior" black slaves and to become self-appointed stewards of their religious and moral development. That's freakishly difficult to use as a justification for a slave who happens to be white... The mirror would tell the tale.

And, I'm sure this has some sort of use in a discussion about Poser Pron, right?

So, there is some notion that black slavery was "unique" in being totally based on race during this period. There is a small bit of truth to that, but it grew from much broader interpretations of "slavery." Black slaves simply became much more economically viable and the culture of the time could use many more "justifications" for its use of slaves than they could use for the enslaving of fellow whites. But, as an example of history, the idea of enslavement due to ones cultural or racial differences was very a common one and repeated for as long as we have written records.

[Morkonan]

And, I'm sure this has some sort of use in a discussion about Poser Pron, right?

Ha ha... Yeah, I wasn't quite sure where that came from either. But those are some really good points. That was why I subtly referenced the Appalachian mine workers who were treated essentially as company property. There has always been slavery, and America sadly didn't set the precedent for countries having no involvement. But there's something about the African slave trade, the idea of going to another continent with boats and bringing people back here to work and not even recognizing their very humanity, that has overshadowed similar endemic injustices of the same era.

wonders if the pron oscars have a cgi category

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moogal posted at 8:10PM Sun, 18 October 2015 - #4233901

[Byrdie]

I own a few issues myself, special celebrity editions with the old movie stars in them. And yes, I did read the articles. All in all, pretty good. But then again, I am not a heterosexual male, so I really can't speak for anyone in that category who claims "It's only for the articles!" when the mother, wife or significant other discovers his stash. I do, however, take such claims with a honkin' big heap of salt.

I am a heterosexual male, but honestly always felt the articles truly were the only reason to read Playboy. The girls were all too similar, either the "girl next door" or "rich daddy's girl gone off to college"... Thin, blonde, airbrushed and not my cup of tea at all. (The kind of girls upward moving American men in the 1950s-70s sought for trophy wives?) Too modestly posed to even be provocative, just easy on the eyes and nothing more.

Standing a bit to the side so I don't get hit by a bolt of lightning! Really? Seriously? Denial apparently just isn't a river in Egypt.

moogal posted at 2:07AM Mon, 19 October 2015 - #4234035

DreaminGirl posted at 2:24AM Sat, 17 October 2015 - #4233995

Slavery has existed as long as humanity has existed. It has always been part of human culture.

Despite the long human history of slave trading various periods of trade can indeed be marked as having beginnings and ends. I was always under the impression that what made slavery in the US (which I understood the above comment to be referring to, right or wrong) unique was the uncommon racial aspect. People of one color having slaves exclusively of another color. Even though slavery was a practice within Africa at the time, 19th century Euro-Americans were enslaving Africans exclusively, never their own people nor people of any other race. Asians were certainly exploited but I don't recall the notion of ownership ever being applied to them nor to the Scots-Irish miners in Appalachia.

ownership ever being applied to them nor to the Scots-Irish miners in Appalachia.

nah where just the troublesome ones.

but the mines paid in script not money. only the mine you worked at store would accept that script. so it wasn't slavery but I wouldn't call it freedom either. I still have some of my Grandpa's script .

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Since many Native American tribes practiced the enslavement of war prisoners, I believe slavery predated the arrival of the Europeans.

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quietrob posted at 2:57AM Mon, 19 October 2015 - #4234213

moogal posted at 8:10PM Sun, 18 October 2015 - #4233901

[Byrdie]

I own a few issues myself, special celebrity editions with the old movie stars in them. And yes, I did read the articles. All in all, pretty good. But then again, I am not a heterosexual male, so I really can't speak for anyone in that category who claims "It's only for the articles!" when the mother, wife or significant other discovers his stash. I do, however, take such claims with a honkin' big heap of salt.

I am a heterosexual male, but honestly always felt the articles truly were the only reason to read Playboy. The girls were all too similar, either the "girl next door" or "rich daddy's girl gone off to college"... Thin, blonde, airbrushed and not my cup of tea at all. (The kind of girls upward moving American men in the 1950s-70s sought for trophy wives?) Too modestly posed to even be provocative, just easy on the eyes and nothing more.

Standing a bit to the side so I don't get hit by a bolt of lightning! Really? Seriously? Denial apparently just isn't a river in Egypt.

I think it's just a matter of not preferring the same kinds of girls Hef does. The Playboy ideal is tall, tan and athletic... Sporty, outdoorsy... I'm not saying I couldn't be attracted to a specific woman of that type, but I'm not attracted to that type in general. I prefer petite to tall, pale to tan and curves to tone/definition. I like the hipster librarian types... the curvy girls in hip-hop videos... emo girls with purple hair and maybe just a little bit of ink. I find the girls in Playboy attractive, just not very arousing. Honestly, I really thought that was the point of Playboy.

playboy is pinup not pron.

need 2 people engaged in sex activity for pron.

woman or man alone with a sex toy, imo, fancy masturbtions - not really pron, is it?

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MistyLaraPrincess posted at 4:25PM Mon, 19 October 2015 - #4234256

playboy is pinup not pron.

need 2 people engaged in sex activity for pron.

woman or man alone with a sex toy, imo, fancy masturbtions - not really pron, is it?

Actually, yes. There's a big difference between simply being in a state of undress and performing a self-satisfying act. Add the sex toy, and all "innocence" goes out the window. Even without the sex toy I'd say nudity+sexual stimulation=pron. There's hardcore and softcore pron, we can call it erotica if pron seems too disparaging, but once you add stimulation/arousal you've crossed the line that Playboy never did (AFAIK). Everything I've ever seen from Playboy would be kosher here if flagged for nudity.

bhoins posted at 9:51PM Mon, 19 October 2015 - #4232539

I think you spelled Prawn wrong. :)

Here's some transsexual pr0n...;er prawns...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/19/us-israel-prawn-gender-idUSKCN0SD12E20151019

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Byrdie posted at 12:03AM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4233936

Yeah, I think it was the classiness that made Playboy more than just another "under the counter" men's book. You had A-list stars on the cover and getting naked for the cameras at a time when even a whiff of scandal, especially if it involved anything remotely sexual, could and did ruin many a career. Be seen snogging somebody else's husband when it wasn't part of the script? Can't have that, fire the trollop. Be seen in Playboy as Miss September? No big deal, great career move. All part of the Hollywood Sex Symbol mystique. :sigh: Those days are long gone. We now have the likes of the Kardashians and Miley Cyrus or whomever baring it all while swinging on a ball. Class is out, sleaze is in.

Damn, I'm getting old!

The old joke:

What is the difference between a slut and a bitch?

The slut will sleep with anybody. The bitch will sleep with anybody but you...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

How did we go from pron to slavery?

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.

rokket posted at 8:11AM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234381

How did we go from pron to slavery?

Puritanical ideas about sexuality; porn as exploitation; the "white slave trade", which no one has mentioned yet. A natural progression.

But let's not blame the Puritans for everything. Long after their revolution in Britain was ended, the Victorians evolved their own peculiar brand of prudishness -- covering the legs of tables and chairs because they were legs. Even saying the names of the body parts was shocking, which is why we often say "white meat" and "dark meat" when referring to the breast and legs of chicken. Victorians made even the Puritans seem sexually free. Interestingly, for the Puritans, it was a matter of Biblical morals. For the Victorians, at least in Europe, much more a matter of manners. And lest we think manners could never be that important, during a time of enormous growth of the middle class, including the rise to great riches for some, there had to be some way to maintain a sense of class distinctions in a culture that was built on social hierarchy. A way to keep the upstart middle class feeling inferior even when they had more money. For the Victorians, manners served that purpose. And even today, in Britain, the word "class" refers to more than just a person's social and economic position -- but also his/her deportment: his or her manners.

Oddly, the Americans banished the idea of class, but kept the prudishness about sexuality -- an attitude that was easily available to everyone equally. LOL.

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moriador posted at 12:53PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234415

But let's not blame the Puritans for everything. Long after their revolution in Britain was ended, the Victorians evolved their own peculiar brand of prudishness -- covering the legs of tables and chairs because they were legs. Even saying the names of the body parts was shocking, which is why we often say "white meat" and "dark meat" when referring to the breast and legs of chicken. Victorians made even the Puritans seem sexually free. Interestingly, for the Puritans, it was a matter of Biblical morals. For the Victorians, at least in Europe, much more a matter of manners. And lest we think manners could never be that important, during a time of enormous growth of the middle class, including the rise to great riches for some, there had to be some way to maintain a sense of class distinctions in a culture that was built on social hierarchy. A way to keep the upstart middle class feeling inferior even when they had more money. For the Victorians, manners served that purpose. And even today, in Britain, the word "class" refers to more than just a person's social and economic position -- but also his/her deportment: his or her manners.

It wasn't just that. A portion of the Victorian conservatism was in reaction to what their parents and grandparents had done in the Georgian and Regency Eras. Gambling, casual sex, alcohol, they were so into it they wouldn't have felt out of place today (although we'd probably look sideways at the rampant boozing). But that period was also the era of revolution, when populations struck against what was described as the morally bankrupt aristocracy. and it wouldn't be hard to associate those two things. The Victorians, in England, entered an era where they were for the most part isolated from conflict, they had created the most widespread empire the world had ever seen (and odds are will never see again), society had settled down, and there was a feeling that if society struck to the straight and narrow they'd avoid the messes and chaos that had broken out elsewhere in Europe in their lifetimes.

Speaking about victorians: They invented the vibrator to heal hysteric women and I think a woman in a corset is quite erotic.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?

Guess they were whale oil powered vibrators, or maybe you had to wind them?

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Keith posted at 2:27PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234446

moriador posted at 12:53PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234415

But let's not blame the Puritans for everything. Long after their revolution in Britain was ended, the Victorians evolved their own peculiar brand of prudishness -- covering the legs of tables and chairs because they were legs. Even saying the names of the body parts was shocking, which is why we often say "white meat" and "dark meat" when referring to the breast and legs of chicken. Victorians made even the Puritans seem sexually free. Interestingly, for the Puritans, it was a matter of Biblical morals. For the Victorians, at least in Europe, much more a matter of manners. And lest we think manners could never be that important, during a time of enormous growth of the middle class, including the rise to great riches for some, there had to be some way to maintain a sense of class distinctions in a culture that was built on social hierarchy. A way to keep the upstart middle class feeling inferior even when they had more money. For the Victorians, manners served that purpose. And even today, in Britain, the word "class" refers to more than just a person's social and economic position -- but also his/her deportment: his or her manners.

It wasn't just that. A portion of the Victorian conservatism was in reaction to what their parents and grandparents had done in the Georgian and Regency Eras. Gambling, casual sex, alcohol, they were so into it they wouldn't have felt out of place today (although we'd probably look sideways at the rampant boozing). But that period was also the era of revolution, when populations struck against what was described as the morally bankrupt aristocracy. and it wouldn't be hard to associate those two things. The Victorians, in England, entered an era where they were for the most part isolated from conflict, they had created the most widespread empire the world had ever seen (and odds are will never see again), society had settled down, and there was a feeling that if society struck to the straight and narrow they'd avoid the messes and chaos that had broken out elsewhere in Europe in their lifetimes.

Hmmm.... Yes, I believe you're quite right. Very good points, indeed.

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bopperthijs posted at 7:29PM Tue, 20 October 2015 - #4234467

Speaking about victorians: They invented the vibrator to heal hysteric women and I think a woman in a corset is quite erotic.

Wonder Woman...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.