Look.... No offence intended to any body... but for months now I've been coming back to the marketplace for Poser product and noticed that not only have prices increased, but quality and content of packs have fallen to a very, very low level... have all the merchants out there run out of ideas? has everything been done now? is everyone just converting their packs to V5,V6 and V7... G1, G2 and G3... or just given up?

Just pushin' the boat out there to test the tide... so to speak.

Actually your post is offensive... This post is in violation of TOS as it is considered Flame Baiting.

Thank you digitell. If you are concerned RGUS ... please refer to a more appropriate forum and rephrase to avoid violating the TOS.

Boni

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"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Yo Boni and Digitell... sorry if I didn't name names or packs that affect the TOS... just a thought is all. Now how the hell do you delete a post so that nobody else gets the wrong idea? As helpful co-ordinators, you must be able to do this for me eh!

I actually appreciate hearing from buyers what they would like to see in the Marketplace. And, I hope we can all have a civil conversation about this. It's important to me as a vendor to know what buyers want, and I'm not offended by it, even if some might think it seems like flame baiting. It seems that it's an important issue for buyers, too. So, I'd love all the feedback you will give me (even if it is sent via SiteMail). 'Poser products' is a little bit vague can you be more specific of what products you would like to see for Poser? What figures do you use? Are you wanting props, scenes, clothing, hair, shoes?

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair. So, we have a few G3 items, but have tried to stick more to the Gen2 figures so that even Poser users can use them with the DSON poser compatible files (that we've been providing). Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

Well then 'RPublishing' that was more the response I was hoping for. Being a long time purchaser and renderer of 3D Poser packs, I miss the new and exciting products that have been produced by long standing merchants here and on other sites. Appreciating that everything is a commercial exercise, each side of the marketplace, one still expects good value from money in there sale and purchase.

What I feel particularly is missing from the current marketplace is theme based products. RDNA achieve this to a certain degree with their massive modular packs. I'd name them, but I'd probably get in more trouble. If base packs for themed ideas were released over a series of weeks then maybe this would help sales by spreading cost of the packs out for the buyers. $100 for a one of pack is hard to move, but 5 - $20 packs over weeks is easier on the credit card.

I could move on endlessly with lots of ideas for packs... but I'm not a merchant and I always go with the best sales pitch I have ever used when I was selling...

"Never give them what that want... give them what they dreamed they could never have" Always worked for me.

RPublishing, I would love, love, love to see a (smallish) street scene - but MODERN please - it seems that all the props and scenes are medieval. I'd love to find a scene where the figures I use could stroll past bodegas and fruit stands, with a small sidewalk cafe/coffee shop, etc. You know, the kind of place we wicked (LOL) city dwellers see each day.

For Poser, please. I don't use DS nor any DS figures.

And, sorry, Renderosity, I have to agree with the OP. In general, the quality has dropped tremendously in the store with the (now rare) exception of a few vendors.

I'll give you an example - yesterday, I was searching for a character for Dusk. There was exactly ONE in the RO marketplace. At another store, I found many quality characters, on sale at half the price of RO.

I guess I should come back and add some observations about what I said about quality.......

1. I use Poser. Therefore, I cannot speak to the quality of Genesis3 products in the store. I don't look at them, I don't waste my time evaluating quality as I would be unable to do so.

2. I use Poser. Most days, the What's New page of Renderosity does not contain a single product I can use in my software of choice. Hence, I move onto another store to shop.

3. Most of the products in the store of late are either DS only, Fantasy and/or Genesis 3. Because those are not generally the products I purchase, I rarely find myself looking through what Renderosity has on offer except a quick glance to confirm "yeah, nothing here for me. Next."

I totally agree with Rgus. As a long time and very big former spender here, I can say the majority of items are specifically G2 and V7. A lot are simply converted items. I primarily use Poser. When buying V7 and G2 items (which is infrequent), I go to buy them at where prices are much more competitive (although they are higher there too than they used to be).... Simply put, you cannot compete with the other store on V7 and some G2 items, especially on their sales. By dumping Poser users you've driven away most poser users (as they have though over there at the other store, but there are few older pieces that go on sale every once in awhile) to your other competition who's also running deeper discounts. The tone of the store, and the community forums have changed drastically. I know you don't get the same number of visitors nor nearly the amount of sales. Fine. I do occasionally support favorite vendors who still make poser items (and there are some newer vendors ones I'd support if they were better priced). That said my spending here is about 500% less than it used to be....

To me this is a ghost of what it used to be..... less people participating, an upper management who doesn't care, coupons that really don't work properly, a prime club that basically shafted good customers, galleries and forums that were improperly coded for no reason but poor management decisions (don't use this same web developer).

Honestly, I don't really participate in the forums because of certain trolls who get to run rampant and drive away customers even though they may be knowledgeable in some matters, they get away with posting highly offensive and very rude posts. Mind you other communities have nicer and brighter people who don't have giant egos or chips on their shoulders and are willing to help without any attitude. So it's like a bad version of a high school click here with no real reason to keep coming back.

The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.

And on a side note, maybe the thread is a violation of TOS. Perhaps it could be worded another manner. But ignoring comments is what's driven no one to post in the Prime membership forums any more. It's not that they don't complain because the problems have been fixed. It's that no one listens and it's easier to go elsewhere. Generally these are warning signs of a giant problem. At this point they are signs of a business soon to be in trouble. Fourth quarter sales figures should be in for most vendors here as well as the actual store. I can't imagine "they've increased!" especially compared to previous fourth quarter sales.

The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.

To answer your question RGUS, yes, the merchants ran out of ideas a long time ago. It isn't just here - some of the shoes made for the genesis 3 female sold at DAZ were originally made for P6 Jessi & Miki 1 (I have them).

Most merchants work under the I only make what I am personally interested in philosophy. And it is the customer's fault that sales aren't what they could be. You can't tell them that maybe the market can't support another buy me drinky dress for ANY figure.

The market has changed - the vendors haven't.

For the most part, the vendors here appear aggressively uninterested in learning any post Poser 6 feature. I actually had one tell me they didn't have time to learn the features of Poser 9 while making their very first product for Dawn. Roll that thought around. Didn't have time to learn the features of the software that was REQUIRED to use the figure (and the content).

You can't get a vendor to understand that it is because of vendor intransigence that the Fitting Room was added to Poser. That has fundamentally changed clothes buying.

It is easier to use than Wardrobe Wizard or Xdresser, and now any figure has access to M4 or V4's wardrobe. I can convert an outfit for V4 to Dawn (or any other figure) in less than 30 seconds.

They also don't want to hear that any of us have either left Poser 6 way of doing things & V4 behind (because as we all know, no one actually bought any copy of Poser beyond Poser 4.) We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)

All of this factors into what I buy here - I have to calculate how much work I have to do to bring a product to Poser 9 standards. If it is too much work, I'll pass (and usually purchase something else - at another storefront.)

Tie in the fact that, to this day, there isn't much available for the genesis line of figures either. By now, there is the same amount of clothing available for the genesis figure as was released in the 1st 90 days of the V4 era. There is an untapped market there and it is low hanging fruit. The content for the genesis figures available here is better than at DAZ, although I will grant that the promotional images over there are better.

As others have pointed out, a lot of people don't spend time here that they used to - as an example, before the site "redesign" 'Rosity averaged (according to the "members online" thingy in the upper left hand corner) between 4500 to 6000 users online at any one time. I don't think they have cracked 3,000 since the site redesign.

The prime forums are a dead as last year's flowers, I hope 'Rosity isn't banking on much in the way of renewals - because it isn't happening. The way they botched that and then threw the vendors under the bus and blaming everyone except themselves for what happened is an interesting theory to increase sales.

At the end of the day - as a Poser user, there are better storefronts for Poser content. Unfortunately, 'Rosity has become the home of the lowest common denominator.

I must have a completely different view as the team here as I do not see the original post as being offensive more an honest view on a perceived trend the OP is unhappy with. The claim that it is likely to produce a flame war, well that is down to how people respond, but I could come up with a bunch of threads that are clearly an attempt to start a war that have gone unchallenged.

Addressing the OP's question I have to say I cannot really comment on the quality of the products for, as a Poser user, I have not shopped here since September of last year. The reason for that have already been laid out very well by Kazam561 which is a real shame because Rendo used to be a site I visited on a daily basis and threw $200 - $300 at most months.

I am sorry, and I know it might make me unpopular, but to jump on to someone who appears to be really concerned about aspects of the marketplace while ignoring bigger issues......well let's just say words like Burning, Nero and Rome come to mind.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I actually agree with the OP, the increasingly smaller trickle of Poser items being released lately is mostly rubbish. If saying so is a violation of the TOS, then so be it. I hardly shop here anymore because there is nothing to buy!

DreaminGirl posted at 12:20PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247649

I actually agree with the OP, the increasingly smaller trickle of Poser items being released lately is mostly rubbish. If saying so is a violation of the TOS, then so be it. I hardly shop here anymore because there is nothing to buy!

To bad, this forum is not meant to be a free speech area. Expressing opinions as valid they might be, can be against the forum TOS. So just vote with your wallet ;)

OK, let's use a live example. This set in the marketplace What's New today appears to be some really nice modeling https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/colorful-loft/113118/

And, it's for Poser! Wooooot!

But, the description leaves me confused as to what I might be purchasing. It says: This item contains 19 High Quality Props for the Loft Scene

So, that leads me to believe the "Loft Scene" is an additional model somewhere. Yet, there's no link anywhere on the page to this Loft Scene. So is it included? Am I buying the Loft Scene? Or 19 props?

Yes, I could open the ReadMe and look at the object file list, but I shouldn't HAVE TO. You're trying to sell me something. Tell me what you are selling if you want me to buy it.

I realize for some vendors english is not their native language, but if you want me to buy, you have to sell me and it's to Renderosity's advantage (more sales!) to help these vendors provide good ad copy. Describing what you want me to BUY, in full, is the first step.

I don't mean to be ugly to this vendor - the product looks very nice and interesting. I'm interested, but I'm not sold. Minor changes to the ad copy would likely sell me.

Send the vendor a site mail asking for clarification. The read me lists a !Loft.pp2. It's likely there is a basic room prop in which all the other props go. The lack of clarity in the read me is a the fault of the beta testers and Rendo Q/A. Back when I had the time to beta test for vendors, I always checked the read me not only for errors but to make certain it was clear what the buyer was getting and what they were not.

icprncss2 posted at 8:31AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247670

Send the vendor a site mail asking for clarification. The read me lists a !Loft.pp2. It's likely there is a basic room prop in which all the other props go. The lack of clarity in the read me is a the fault of the beta testers and Rendo Q/A. Back when I had the time to beta test for vendors, I always checked the read me not only for errors but to make certain it was clear what the buyer was getting and what they were not.

I realize I could do that. However, my point is that most 3D buying is an impulse purchase. Therefore, without the needed information, I am being asked to go out of my way to spend money. I shouldn't have to do either - open the ReadMe nor email the vendor. Frankly, I don't want the product that badly.

Since a refund of misspent funds at Renderosity is like pulling teeth, I need the information before I pull out the credit card.

And, you're correct - it goes to the OP about a lack of quality.

Well, I think there may be a shift ... with Poser 11. and look at recent figures like Fredel's Odelle. And the continued popularity of Danae's Metropolitan collection with Tokyo as a new addition. There has been a lull, but I think it will pick up. But then I'm a bit of a Polyanna.

Boni

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"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

I think RGUS put it very nicely in the subject. lol! I'm not offended in the least and when an artist such as RGUS complains, I for one listen!

I don't buy much content however so I can't agree or disagree with most of what is said but I wanted to point out a few things as a vendor.

The 3D Market has been divided recently way more than it was and it's not always easy to figure out which way to go when creating a product.

I have been a Poser user since Poser 4 and I don't like DS at all (no offense DS users) but it's hard to ignore the G3 figures when the MP is full of content for them and so little for V4.

"By dumping Poser users you've driven away most poser users (as they have though over there at the other store, but there are few older pieces that go on sale every once in awhile) to your other competition who's also running deeper discounts. The tone of the store, and the community forums have changed drastically."

Sadly this is very true. Some of us vendors hoped Renderosity would stay more geared towards Poser & V4 but unfortunately this didn't happen.

Some of the things I read here however don't seem very just such as:

" Most merchants work under the I only make what I am personally interested in philosophy. And it is the customer's fault that sales aren't what they could be..."

I strongly doubt this is the case most of the time. Personally I create what I like because I can give the best by doing so.

I couldn't work on something I didn't like for weeks or more no matter how much customers liked or wanted it.

In any case don't stop complaining, don't stop letting us know what you like and/or don't like please!

I don't answer posts very often but I do always read them because your input is very important and necessary.

Thanks!

Well, nirvy, you make a simple base mistake - the choices are NOT Genesis or V4.

There's an abundance of other figures available to users than those 2. Sorry, but I don't use either of those figures so you have no hope in hell of selling me products for either.

I don't use a figure that's 10 years old and been "done to death" (V4). If I'm being honest, it's why I don't use anything Genesis either - V4 done to death clothing converted to Genesis holds absolutely no interest for me. I use new technology that utilizes the figures that take advantage of that technology. I buy from vendors who endorse new technology.

So, as long as you're stuck on Genesis or V4..........

I absolutely agree with the original post. I now make my own stuff and keep it to myself. I haven't bought anything in a few years now.

Most of the comments made seem to be addressing the entirely predictable outcome of the Daz/Poser split. Simple supply and demand would indicate that items made for a figure who's users have closets bursting with content would not continue to buy or need more. I also tend to think there is way more content in various marketplaces for Gen 4 figures than for Genesis of any generation (supply). This is true of props, poses, morphs, etc. as well. Genesis 3, on the other hand, had 0 items on the market before it was released (demand). Unique items would be good but would still be niche and, therefore, sell modestly. Given the choice why would a vendor support Poser over Studio?

The Poser community has neglected to embrace any new figure in mass. Commenters to this board and others have stated that SM should just keep doing what they've always done; they have plenty of content already; or if Poser ceased production today they'd still have a copy on their hard drive. If you want to keep using V4 don't complain as she goes the way of all digital things (I think she'll still fit on a Zip disk). It can't be changed.

I can't tell anybody how to spend their time and money but if you are concerned about the Poser ecosystem and want the software to continue to thrive with vendors making new product, it may be necessary to be somewhat proactive. You may scoff, but right now HiveWire3D is Poser's last best chance. They are the only organized entity dedicated to Poser and creating a full family of modern figures; man, woman, child, toons, horses and other animals. They're the only such entity with a storefront, forums (back finally), 3rd party vendors, and some ideas about marketing. You don't like Dawn? Fine. Buy something else to help finance Dawn 2. Or wait for and heavily support Ero's Project E. Keep in mind though that even if PE takes off it still leaves a huge hole in the ecosystem that people that don't specialize in pinups will have trouble embracing. And once your new figure is chosen flood the various Poser galleries that are currently overrun with Studio renders with (good) Poser images. Vote with your renders. Let vendors know we still exist . . .

. . . or you can just complain about the lack of content.

________________________________

My DeviantArt Gallery

My Website

Agree, false1, but on the flip side, vendors need not complain when the 9,999th version of a V4 bathing suit/corset/porn outfit doesn't sell.

I use the Hivewire models extensively, but I was trying to keep from naming the competition in this thread in hopes it wouldn't be locked.

These days, my money is spent at Hivewire and RDNA because THEY have not limited their product lines to Genesis or V4.

ssgbryan posted at 11:39AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247644

We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)

As a vendor, this part stood out to me. Why are material .pz2s considered out-of-date? Why is the alternative better? I honestly don't know. The reason I make .pz2s for materials is so they'll be compatible in both DAZ and Poser (as much as possible, anyway), but if there's a better way I'm interested to hear it.

false1 posted at 5:44PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247713

Most of the comments made seem to be addressing the entirely predictable outcome of the Daz/Poser split. Simple supply and demand would indicate that items made for a figure who's users have closets bursting with content would not continue to buy or need more. I also tend to think there is way more content in various marketplaces for Gen 4 figures than for Genesis of any generation (supply). This is true of props, poses, morphs, etc. as well. Genesis 3, on the other hand, had 0 items on the market before it was released (demand). Unique items would be good but would still be niche and, therefore, sell modestly. Given the choice why would a vendor support Poser over Studio?

The Poser community has neglected to embrace any new figure in mass. Commenters to this board and others have stated that SM should just keep doing what they've always done; they have plenty of content already; or if Poser ceased production today they'd still have a copy on their hard drive. If you want to keep using V4 don't complain as she goes the way of all digital things (I think she'll still fit on a Zip disk). It can't be changed.

I can't tell anybody how to spend their time and money but if you are concerned about the Poser ecosystem and want the software to continue to thrive with vendors making new product, it may be necessary to be somewhat proactive. You may scoff, but right now HiveWire3D is Poser's last best chance. They are the only organized entity dedicated to Poser and creating a full family of modern figures; man, woman, child, toons, horses and other animals. They're the only such entity with a storefront, forums (back finally), 3rd party vendors, and some ideas about marketing. You don't like Dawn? Fine. Buy something else to help finance Dawn 2. Or wait for and heavily support Ero's Project E. Keep in mind though that even if PE takes off it still leaves a huge hole in the ecosystem that people that don't specialize in pinups will have trouble embracing. And once your new figure is chosen flood the various Poser galleries that are currently overrun with Studio renders with (good) Poser images. Vote with your renders. Let vendors know we still exist . . .

. . . or you can just complain about the lack of content.

On the whole I agree with you but I am not sure even Hivewire3D is Poser's last chance. For instance, I have yet to upgrade to Poser 11 for two main reasons, firstly I am more than happy with the Dawn and the rest of the Hivewire family so I do not have a tremendous need for Pauline, and second I still have no love for the deactivation service. So in one sense I am keeping Poser alive by staying with Poser Pro 2014, but I am not helping SM much.

The lack of Poser renders has multiple reasons, not just the lack of new content, as more than a couple of members here have deleted their whole gallery and along with it hundreds of Poser renders. Being one of those members any renders I do now are added to the Dawn, or relevant gallery, over at RDNA.

I know there is less demand for V4 items here but how much is that down to users moving away from V4 or buyers moving away from Rendo. I don't know the answer but I think reason for change in the market place has many reasons and I really don't envy any vendor trying to work out what to produce, particularly if customers are frowned on for giving their view on the market.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

gmm2 posted at 1:01PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247723

ssgbryan posted at 11:39AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247644

We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)

As a vendor, this part stood out to me. Why are material .pz2s considered out-of-date? Why is the alternative better? I honestly don't know. The reason I make .pz2s for materials is so they'll be compatible in both DAZ and Poser (as much as possible, anyway), but if there's a better way I'm interested to hear it.

pz2s are really limiting in what they can make use of in the material room. DAZ can read mc6 files. There is no reason to use PZ2 files and make the products dated and limited technology.

Quite simply, if a purchased product comes with pz2 files and mc6 files, I simply trash the pz2 files. And if a product ONLY has pz2 files, I bypass it for a better product.

Thank you for the information, I didn't realize that. Limiting in what ways, exactly? What can .mc6s do that .pz2s can't?

Edit: I ask because I've made .pz2s from .mc6s and the only thing really required was saving them as a different file format, and the results seem identical as far as I can tell. I don't understand how a .pz2 wouldn't be able to have the same features as an .mc6.

I use both .pz2 and .mc6 and include both in my freebies, a mat pose is nothing more than a .mc6 with one line of text changed in a text editor (change mtlCollection to Figure) and .mc6 extension changed to .pz2. Lol.

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

gmm2 posted at 1:29PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247735

Thank you for the information, I didn't realize that. Limiting in what ways, exactly? What can .mc6s do that .pz2s can't?

Edit: I ask because I've made .pz2s from .mc6s and the only thing really required was saving them as a different file format, and the results seem identical as far as I can tell. I don't understand how a .pz2 wouldn't be able to have the same features as an .mc6.

Here's a nice write up about it by esha: http://esha.at/Knowhow/Knowhow_E/Material_E/material_e.html

EldritchCellar posted at 1:31PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247740

I use both .pz2 and .mc6 and include both in my freebies, a mat pose is nothing more than a .mc6 with one line of text changed in a text editor (change mtlCollection to Figure) and .mc6 extension changed to .pz2. Lol.

Well, here's my experience.......a hair product with no material files in Poser looks like plastic hair. If it's not using proper Poser materials files, I bypass it. Simple.

I think that if a vendor or content creator can't be bothered to include both (literally takes a few minutes to convert manually, not to mention scripts that will convert), something is seriously biased or lazy on the part of that creator. This whole argument is nonsensical.

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

Crystal. You have no idea what you're talking about, sorry. A .pz2 derived from a .mc6 is the exact same material settings. You can't have one without the other. Mat poses don't magically spring into existance, they're created from .mc6 files. My god.

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

CrystalGames posted at 12:37PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247741

Here's a nice write up about it by esha: http://esha.at/Knowhow/Knowhow_E/Material_E/material_e.html

The only real difference I'm seeing is that .pz2s can't be used on props unless there's a figure in the scene, which is a downside. But as far as the material settings and such being different, I'm not convinced that .mc6s are better. Also, that page says .mc6s can't be used in DAZ. I appreciate the information, but I still don't understand why .mc6s are better.

Also, just a friendly reminder to not let things get heated in here.

If a material set up is crappy, it's going to be crappy regardless of its delivery system.

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

Nothing heated, just chagrined at nonsensical statements.

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

You're fine, EC. I'm just heading things off.

gmm2 posted at 2:00PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247746

CrystalGames posted at 12:37PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247741

Here's a nice write up about it by esha: http://esha.at/Knowhow/Knowhow_E/Material_E/material_e.html

The only real difference I'm seeing is that .pz2s can't be used on props unless there's a figure in the scene, which is a downside. But as far as the material settings and such being different, I'm not convinced that .mc6s are better. Also, that page says .mc6s can't be used in DAZ. I appreciate the information, but I still don't understand why .mc6s are better.

DAZ simply does not, cannot make use of Poser's material room settings. A perfect example is velvet or metal. I can product a beautiful velvet material using Poser's material room. I cannot produce the same material in DS. Simple.

It doesn't matter what extension you give it. DS simply discards information from Poser's material room it does not understand.

Nothing heated. No problems. If I purchase a Poser product, I want Poser materials. If they don't have it, I simply move on because there's plenty of products out there which DO make full use of the Poser material room.

I still don't get what that has to do with mat pose/.mc6 but ok. Back to promo renders...

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What must Renderosity do if it wishes to survive? Currently it's becoming a Genesis figure store. Realize this... Daz's current G3/V7 purposely has no intended support for Smith Micro's Poser. So let's follow their train of thought. Daz wishes to own the market. Not just on software but eventually figures (at this price range). Daz has changed supporting a competitor's software and thus sacrificed a large consumer spending group in plan of a long term goal. How does this affect Renderosity who sells G2/G3/V7 items? If the Daz's plan comes to fruition and Smith Micro decides to fold up or go a completely different route then Daz will have the market for these type of figures. So let's take the point home. How does Daz own the market place? They change their EULA. A EULA which will make it impossible to sell any support for Daz figures at any non-Daz store. Daz wouldn't change a EULA to spite others would it? Nooooooo.... That's never been done before in business. Wake up Renderosity. You can't afford to play follow the leader when their plan is to starve you out of business.

You, as a company must incentivize. You must use your current strength with your current vendors. Yes you take a small hit, but you need to invest in a future. Either make better deals with vendors to get them to provide more varied content or start folding up your shop now. Why should I buy an outfit here for a G3/V7 figure from a vendor who's got a shop at Daz with an equivalent outfit for 50% to 75% off? Right now, even though I'm not a D/S user, Daz's Platinum Club has better deals than Prime.

Ask customers what they want. Run polls asking about outfits, and props. Have vendors work with customers to custom make items. Yes it's a lot of work, but it will revitalize the market place.

And to vendors, this ship is leaving too. Sure raise prices while you can.... if you can stand losing business. Both sides of the shop need to be flexible if they want to survive. Less stores, and less programs mean a worse time for vendors too.

The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.

CrystalGames posted at 1:10PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247757

DAZ simply does not, cannot make use of Poser's material room settings. A perfect example is velvet or metal. I can product a beautiful velvet material using Poser's material room. I cannot produce the same material in DS. Simple.

It doesn't matter what extension you give it. DS simply discards information from Poser's material room it does not understand.

Nothing heated. No problems. If I purchase a Poser product, I want Poser materials. If they don't have it, I simply move on because there's plenty of products out there which DO make full use of the Poser material room.

Yes, this is true. Certain materials will require DAZ-specific files in order to get the same results as in Poser. But not all of them will. That's what I was getting at, and I apologize for not being more clear. The reason I use .pz2s is so my products can be used in both DAZ and Poser without having to make a bunch of additional files. If I have to make some kind of material that won't translate well from Poser to DAZ (glass or metal), I try to prioritize Poser compatibility. I still use .pz2s for that because I don't like having to go into the Material Room to apply a material; to me, the MR is for building materials, and the results I get from a .pz2 are identical to an .mc6.

"Knowledge doesn't excuse bad behavior or giant egotism. There are always people more knowledgeable and kinder."

That's catchy, you've been using that one alot lately. (Beats kitten with stick). Lol.

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gmm2 posted at 3:00PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247766

CrystalGames posted at 1:10PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247757

DAZ simply does not, cannot make use of Poser's material room settings. A perfect example is velvet or metal. I can product a beautiful velvet material using Poser's material room. I cannot produce the same material in DS. Simple.

It doesn't matter what extension you give it. DS simply discards information from Poser's material room it does not understand.

Nothing heated. No problems. If I purchase a Poser product, I want Poser materials. If they don't have it, I simply move on because there's plenty of products out there which DO make full use of the Poser material room.

Yes, this is true. Certain materials will require DAZ-specific files in order to get the same results as in Poser. But not all of them will. That's what I was getting at, and I apologize for not being more clear. The reason I use .pz2s is so my products can be used in both DAZ and Poser without having to make a bunch of additional files. If I have to make some kind of material that won't translate well from Poser to DAZ (glass or metal), I try to prioritize Poser compatibility. I still use .pz2s for that because I don't like having to go into the Material Room to apply a material; to me, the MR is for building materials, and the results I get from a .pz2 are identical to an .mc6.

But, you don't have to go into the material room to apply an mc6. Just double click. Exactly the same as a pz2.

The issue really is simple - if I'm buying something metal, I want it to look like metal instead of grey plastic. Hair should look like hair and not helmet head.

Kazam561 posted at 3:06PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247765

So let's take the point home. How does Daz own the market place? They change their EULA. A EULA which will make it impossible to sell any support for Daz figures at any non-Daz store. Daz wouldn't change a EULA to spite others would it? Nooooooo.... That's never been done before in business. Wake up Renderosity. You can't afford to play follow the leader when their plan is to starve you out of business.

Anyone who doesn't see this coming from a mile away has their head in the sand. I wish them luck.

CrystalGames posted at 2:16PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247774

But, you don't have to go into the material room to apply an mc6. Just double click. Exactly the same as a pz2.

The issue really is simple - if I'm buying something metal, I want it to look like metal instead of grey plastic. Hair should look like hair and not helmet head.

I just tried adding an .mc6 in the Pose Room. It turns out the only reason it didn't work before is that I didn't have the correct materials selected. So it'll work, but I still have to go into the MR and select the figure. Not a huge issue, but it's still an extra step.

You can get good metal and hair materials in a .pz2. Are you talking about in DAZ? Then yes, DAZ-specific materials would be needed. If a .pz2 material looks bad in Poser it's because the material is bad. It has nothing to do with the file format.

gmm2 posted at 3:25PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247780

CrystalGames posted at 2:16PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247774

But, you don't have to go into the material room to apply an mc6. Just double click. Exactly the same as a pz2.

The issue really is simple - if I'm buying something metal, I want it to look like metal instead of grey plastic. Hair should look like hair and not helmet head.

I just tried adding an .mc6 in the Pose Room. It turns out the only reason it didn't work before is that I didn't have the correct materials selected. So it'll work, but I still have to go into the MR and select the figure. Not a huge issue, but it's still an extra step.

No, you most certainly do NOT need to go to the Material Room to load an MC6 file. MT5, yes, but NOT an MC6. An MT5 file is a single material.........an MC6 file is a MATERIAL COLLECTION and can be loaded with a double click.

CrystalGames posted at 2:29PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247781

No, you most certainly do NOT need to go to the Material Room to load an MC6 file. MT5, yes, but NOT an MC6. An MT5 file is a single material.........an MC6 file is a MATERIAL COLLECTION and can be loaded with a double click.

I could load an .mc6 in the Pose Room, but only after I went into the Material Room and selected a material on the figure I was trying to load it on. Just selecting the figure in the Pose Room and trying to load it didn't work.

gmm2 posted at 3:35PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247783

CrystalGames posted at 2:29PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247781

No, you most certainly do NOT need to go to the Material Room to load an MC6 file. MT5, yes, but NOT an MC6. An MT5 file is a single material.........an MC6 file is a MATERIAL COLLECTION and can be loaded with a double click.

I could load an .mc6 in the Pose Room, but only after I went into the Material Room and selected a material on the figure I was trying to load it on. Just selecting the figure in the Pose Room and trying to load it didn't work.

Then you are loading an MT5 file, not an MC6. Even an MT5 file can be loaded in the Pose room, you only have to select the material zone from the resultant popup to apply it.

In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure.......apply an MC6 by double clicking on it. You never need a trip to the Material Room to do so.

Crystal is right on that. You can apply .mc6 in the pose room. I think that behavior was introduced poser 8? Forget which version. I think there's still alot of Poser 6 users out there, for a vendor it's not really a consideration... for a freebie maker creating legacy style stuff, I like to include .pz2 and .mc6. I don't know about DS, all I know is I should learn how to use it and get a new computer.

---

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Hello

You know that you can apply .mt5 and .mc6 files without ever entering the material room?

Prerequisite is, of course, that you've selected the correct figure/prop to which it should be applied!

**One big difference is that **

• in case of an .mt5 file applied from the pose room, to any figure/prop, you'll be asked to which material zone of your currently selected figure/prop it shall be applied.
• in case of an .mc6 file applied to a non-matching figure/prop anytime, you'll be alerted that the material zones as contained in the file don't exist, and asked whether they should be created - which is a bad idea and should thus be answered by "NO".

Another big difference is flexibility: With .mt5 files, you can replace a material completely, or just add a certain node set while leaving the current material as is. This gives you the option of adding "features" to any existing material... Granted, you'll have to know your way in the Advanced Material Room to wire them up correctly, but I wouldn't want to miss this feature.

PLUS, as it has already been mentioned, an .mt5 file can be applied to any material zone, be it figure or prop. You can't ever do this with a .pz2 set because the material zone are "carved in stone"! (Also note the other limitation - a figure must always be present in the scene. A nuissance if you just want to try out materials on a prop...)

All that said, and to sum it up:

If I find a material (collection) in .pz2 format which is really good and worth keeping, I convert it to an .mt5 or .mc6 file when I install it, to benefit from the advantages described above.

If the material is bad (no matter what file format), I don't use it. I make a mark in my Little Red Book instead, to be cautious before buying more from this vendor...

... which brings us back to the "quality" issue as brought up by the OP.

**Let's keep this discussion going, because it's interesting. But please let's stay civil. ** Regards,

Peter

CrystalGames posted at 2:40PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247785

Then you are loading an MT5 file, not an MC6. Even an MT5 file can be loaded in the Pose room, you only have to select the material zone from the resultant popup to apply it.

In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure.......apply an MC6 by double clicking on it. You never need a trip to the Material Room to do so.

No, it wasn't an .mt5. It was an .mc6, I promise you.

What version of Poser are you using? I don't know what the "Main Window dropdown" is.

"or just add a certain node set while leaving the current material as is. This gives you the option of adding "features" to any existing material..."

Wasn't aware of this. Very useful tidbit there, have to give it a spin.

---

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EldritchCellar posted at 2:47PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247787

Crystal is right on that. You can apply .mc6 in the pose room.

They are right, yes. But unless I'm missing something, you can only do this if you first go into the Material Room and select the item you want to apply the .mc6 to.

QUOTE: "In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure......" For those using the hierarchy editor instead: Just select the figure/prop, apply mat, and you're done.

Peter, thank you for that explanation. I'm still not entirely convinced, but that helps me better understand the pros and cons of each format. Very helpful.

pikesPit posted at 2:55PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247792

QUOTE: "In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure......" For those using the hierarchy editor instead: Just select the figure/prop, apply mat, and you're done.

Tried this. It didn't work.

Nope. Just select target from main window dropdown or hierarchy. Oh, was aware of that .mt5 functionality PikesPit mentioned... damn, thought I learned something new. Crosspost.

---

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gmm2 posted at 3:56PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247789

CrystalGames posted at 2:40PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247785

Then you are loading an MT5 file, not an MC6. Even an MT5 file can be loaded in the Pose room, you only have to select the material zone from the resultant popup to apply it.

In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure.......apply an MC6 by double clicking on it. You never need a trip to the Material Room to do so.

No, it wasn't an .mt5. It was an .mc6, I promise you.

What version of Poser are you using? I don't know what the "Main Window dropdown" is.

This has been true since I started using Poser with P7.

That's exactly how I've been selecting my figures and trying to load an .mc6. It will not work unless I go into the Material Room first and select a material on the figure.

pikesPit posted at 4:01PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247788

Hello

You know that you can apply .mt5 and .mc6 files without ever entering the material room?

Prerequisite is, of course, that you've selected the correct figure/prop to which it should be applied!

**One big difference is that **

• in case of an .mt5 file applied from the pose room, to any figure/prop, you'll be asked to which material zone of your currently selected figure/prop it shall be applied.
• in case of an .mc6 file applied to a non-matching figure/prop anytime, you'll be alerted that the material zones as contained in the file don't exist, and asked whether they should be created - which is a bad idea and should thus be answered by "NO".

Another big difference is flexibility: With .mt5 files, you can replace a material completely, or just add a certain node set while leaving the current material as is. This gives you the option of adding "features" to any existing material... Granted, you'll have to know your way in the Advanced Material Room to wire them up correctly, but I wouldn't want to miss this feature.

PLUS, as it has already been mentioned, an .mt5 file can be applied to any material zone, be it figure or prop. You can't ever do this with a .pz2 set because the material zone are "carved in stone"! (Also note the other limitation - a figure must always be present in the scene. A nuissance if you just want to try out materials on a prop...)

All that said, and to sum it up:

If I find a material (collection) in .pz2 format which is really good and worth keeping, I convert it to an .mt5 or .mc6 file when I install it, to benefit from the advantages described above.

If the material is bad (no matter what file format), I don't use it. I make a mark in my Little Red Book instead, to be cautious before buying more from this vendor...

... which brings us back to the "quality" issue as brought up by the OP.

**Let's keep this discussion going, because it's interesting. But please let's stay civil. ** Regards,

Peter

Thank you for this, Peter. I looked and couldn't find anything so well written. Of course, we should note that the 'adding "features" to any existing material' refers to Poser specific features of the material room.

gmm2 posted at 4:03PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247797

That's exactly how I've been selecting my figures and trying to load an .mc6. It will not work unless I go into the Material Room first and select a material on the figure.

Then something is wrong with your version of Poser or you've changed some setting somewhere. It has never required a trip to the material room for me, nor the others responding, evidently.

I've had to delete the preference files a few times due to various issues, so that's probably the cause. I don't really care to get it back because it's such a small deal.

In a roundabout way that ended up being helpful, so thank you, Crystal.

gmm2 posted at 4:43PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247802

I've had to delete the preference files a few times due to various issues, so that's probably the cause. I don't really care to get it back because it's such a small deal.

In a roundabout way that ended up being helpful, so thank you, Crystal.

Ahhh, I suspect it's the following setting:

In General Preferences>Library Tab>Double-Click Behavior>Add to Scene/Replace Existing

Mine is set to Add to Scene

And, you're welcome.

CrystalGames posted at 3:54PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247813

Ahhh, I suspect it's the following setting:

In General Preferences>Library Tab>Double-Click Behavior>Add to Scene/Replace Existing

Mine is set to Add to Scene

And, you're welcome.

Mine's set on Add to Scene, too. Still nothing.

You can also select the library's "load" behaviour manually by selecting a library item, and then either clicking (bottom left) the single checkmark (== replace) or the double checkmark (== add to) - no matter what your basic settings are.

-P-

**P.S.: **_(Just read your last reply) _

If it still doesn't work, then there's obviously something wrong with your Poser install.

Obviously indeed, because it works fine for all others here...

pikesPit posted at 4:15PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247817

You can also select the library's "load" behaviour manually by selecting a library item, and then either clicking (bottom left) the single checkmark (== replace) or the double checkmark (== add to) - no matter what your basic settings are.

-P-

**P.S.: **_(Just read your last reply) _

If it still doesn't work, then there's obviously something wrong with your Poser install.

Obviously indeed, because it works fine for all others here...

This method did work, thankfully. I do think something is actually messed up with my version, but as long as it's just this minor thing, whatever.

P.P.S.:

This forum software is a joke.

In my previous message, edited to add the postscriptum, I meant to set the P.S.:" in BOLD, and the addendum "(Just read your last reply)" in ITALICS.

Instead, it ended up like you can see...

"**P.S.: **_(Just read your last reply) _"

No text formatting...

:(

@ gmm2:

If it works for you this way, then it's fine - leave your Poser installation alone. Remember: If it works, don't change it!

It's just a minor nuisance, compared to a complete re-install and all the hassles that come with it.

Happy Posering!

Peter

Test Test Test Test Test

Edit: Formatting worked on my end. Kind of.

Edit 2: Peter, your problem was that you left a space before your second asterisk pair and your second underscore.

Thanks! Will try to remember these little pitfalls...

-P-

gmm2 posted at 6:09PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247723

ssgbryan posted at 11:39AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247644

We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)

As a vendor, this part stood out to me. Why are material .pz2s considered out-of-date? Why is the alternative better? I honestly don't know. The reason I make .pz2s for materials is so they'll be compatible in both DAZ and Poser (as much as possible, anyway), but if there's a better way I'm interested to hear it.

Material .pz2s were a hack for Poser 4. The issue for me is the pose folder becomes overloaded. That's why we have the Materials folder. Put materials in the materials folder & poses in the pose folder. Like the LAST 6 VERSIONS of Poser are set up.

Furthermore, DazStudio has been able to read material .mc6 files since the release of DS 4.5.

BTW, in Daz Studio, every single file type has been stuffed into the pose subfolder. Unscrewing the file structure in DS is why I can't take DS seriously.

ssgbryan posted at 8:04PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247859

Material .pz2s were a hack for Poser 4. The issue for me is the pose folder becomes overloaded. That's why we have the Materials folder. Put materials in the materials folder & poses in the pose folder. Like the LAST 6 VERSIONS of Poser are set up.

Furthermore, DazStudio has been able to read material .mc6 files since the release of DS 4.5.

BTW, in Daz Studio, every single file type has been stuffed into the pose subfolder. Unscrewing the file structure in DS is why I can't take DS seriously.

Thank you for the explanation. I'm not really convinced that any of those reasons are good enough to not use .pz2s, but I'll definitely consider making .mc6s for my future products if that's what customers prefer (and that seems to be the case).

Just as a little aside, all Poser files are essentially .pz2 (well except for .pz3 and .pmd) at their core. That's the basic file of Poser, everything else is just different stuff between the brackets after version #. As far as hacks go, from that perspective ERC, INJ, etc. are also Poser 4/5 hacks (which are now part of Poser's interface, way after the fact of course). I say these offensive outmoded hacks should be dumped forthwith, no more dependencies! No more shareable morphs (hence no more of those detestable "packs" that shoppers are in an uproar about!). It's high time Poser users do away with such outmoded practices! :) Hey, wasn't .mc6/.mt5 introduced Poser 6? Scoff! Dinosaur crap!

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People seem to have completely skipped over these statements:

RPublishing posted at 5:06PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247573

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair... Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

This is something I've been trying to sort out for a while now, as to which figure platform I should focus on to make content for. I have half-finished content for several different figures - from genesis to gen4 to Paul and Pauline, but I don't know which I should focus on finishing at this point or if I'm even interested anymore. Turbosquid, Unity and Unreal are looking more and more appealing - much less work, much less drama and criticism, higher sales prices.

AmbientShade posted at 5:20AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247877

People seem to have completely skipped over these statements:

RPublishing posted at 5:06PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247573

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair... Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

This is something I've been trying to sort out for a while now, as to which figure platform I should focus on to make content for. I have half-finished content for several different figures - from genesis to gen4 to Paul and Pauline, but I don't know which I should focus on finishing at this point or if I'm even interested anymore. Turbosquid, Unity and Unreal are looking more and more appealing - much less work, much less drama and criticism, higher sales prices.

After looking at your tumblr link, I think you should focus on finishing your original figures. That guy looks AMAZING! :D We have plenty of pretty girls already, we need more guys! And content for them, obviously..

That's Lucas, he's been in development for about 5 years I guess (sorry ambientshade, he has). I've always been puzzled why ambientshade (formerly ExistentialDisorder) hasn't hastened to finish the guy... there was quite an interest in the community when he was modeling the first version. There's a thread about him buried somewhere round here. Perhaps best he waited though, in light of the rigging advances that have come along since. I think that dress/outfit model is really nice and should also be a priority for target Poser/DS.

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ssgbryan posted at 1:46AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247859

BTW, in Daz Studio, every single file type has been stuffed into the pose subfolder. Unscrewing the file structure in DS is why I can't take DS seriously.

Incorrect. The poses folder is for poses and it's subfolders for figures content are separated by the figure. There is a materials folder for separate materials general characters materials under people (unless a vendor makes a characters then all of the content for that character goes together so you're not jumping tab to tab), and a shaders presets for shader materials. I'd be careful of ssybryans advice in Poser as well, as he will quickly lead a vendor astray. Take vendor advice ONLY from vendors, unless you like not making money. That's the first lesson of being a vendor.

I haven't been using Poser as long as most of you have, but I've been using it long enough to figure out that the more stuff there is for a figure, the more people will use that figure, and thus will continue to buy more stuff for them. The reason I keep buying stuff for M4 is because he's already my most versatile figure, and I'd rather have one figure I can do whatever I want with than several figures I can do a few things each with. I buy clothes for him because I have a lot of morphs and textures for him so there is a broader range of people he can be. I assume it's the same thing with the Genesis figures. My point in saying this is that the stuff for the lesser-used figures doesn't sell because there isn't enough stuff for them; that's why they're not used as much. The only way to solve the problem is for them to have more stuff, which would happen if everybody made some, instead of everybody deciding to not make it. It will start selling when a figure becomes supported enough to be really useful.

There is a modern street scene at Poserworld.

gmm2 posted at 9:11AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247864

ssgbryan posted at 8:04PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247859

Material .pz2s were a hack for Poser 4. The issue for me is the pose folder becomes overloaded. That's why we have the Materials folder. Put materials in the materials folder & poses in the pose folder. Like the LAST 6 VERSIONS of Poser are set up.

Furthermore, DazStudio has been able to read material .mc6 files since the release of DS 4.5.

BTW, in Daz Studio, every single file type has been stuffed into the pose subfolder. Unscrewing the file structure in DS is why I can't take DS seriously.

Thank you for the explanation. I'm not really convinced that any of those reasons are good enough to not use .pz2s, but I'll definitely consider making .mc6s for my future products if that's what customers prefer (and that seems to be the case).

I don't like materials in the pose folder but it really is not an issue as once a month I just run a script from Netherworks that moves and converts the materials in the pose folder to the materials folder. Takes a minute or so as it is on a runtime basis and as I usually only buy for a couple of my runtimes each month, rather than the full forty odd, it is a minor inconvenience, much less in fact than the annoyance of looking for a material in a bloated pose folder.

My bigger concern when I do buy is the quality of the materials in the first place and whether the product was made for the later versions of Poser. For instance I would not buy a character these days if there was no Sub Surface Scattering texture even though I could use Ezyskin to create one.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

DreaminGirl posted at 5:01AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247884

AmbientShade posted at 5:20AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247877

People seem to have completely skipped over these statements:

RPublishing posted at 5:06PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247573

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair... Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

This is something I've been trying to sort out for a while now, as to which figure platform I should focus on to make content for. I have half-finished content for several different figures - from genesis to gen4 to Paul and Pauline, but I don't know which I should focus on finishing at this point or if I'm even interested anymore. Turbosquid, Unity and Unreal are looking more and more appealing - much less work, much less drama and criticism, higher sales prices.

After looking at your tumblr link, I think you should focus on finishing your original figures. That guy looks AMAZING! :D We have plenty of pretty girls already, we need more guys! And content for them, obviously..

That's Lucas, he's been in development for about 5 years I guess (sorry ambientshade, he has). I've always been puzzled why ambientshade (formerly ExistentialDisorder) hasn't hastened to finish the guy... there was quite an interest in the community when he was modeling the first version. There's a thread about him buried somewhere round here. Perhaps best he waited though, in light of the rigging advances that have come along since. I think that dress/outfit model is really nice and should also be a priority for target Poser/DS.

Yes indeed, I've been hoping ambientshade would release his male figure for such a long time. The figure looks 100 times more accurate and aesthetically pleasing than any of the Poser males that have been released previously. I've tried most of male figures and I'm sorry but they just aren't that great. Poser needs quality figures and ambientshades male certainly looks like it could fill the void in Poser

Sorry to continue the off-topic sub-thread but since we're talking about applying materials while in the pose room, nobody mentioned ...

Drag and drop. Regardless of what is selected as current figure or actor, you can drag an mt5 or mc6 onto any figure or prop visually and it will apply to what was under the cursor when you dropped. (It will give feedback as you do this) When dropping an MT5 (individual material) it will apply to the polygon you dropped on (and thereby the material associated with that polygon).

---

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Might I suggest we start a new thread on the matterial settings so more folks can join in? Anyone up for that?

Boni

---

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Im a buyer and have previously been a big spender here, but I have to agree now when I look most of the new items are aimed at either V7,G3 and less and less vendors releasing quality stuff for V4. Im only interested in using Poser, Ive tried Daz and cant get the same quality renders and im not going to pay out hundreds of dollars on a third party render engine when for me its just a Hobby, so ill stay with Poser and buy mostly for V4, wherever I can get it.

I prefer working with V4, ive had to work more with G2 via DSON but its not as nice setting up a render with G2 in Poser and the end results of a better image are rarely worth the time and extra pain in struggling with G2 over V4, I only use G2 when I want to use an outfit I cant get on V4.

When I used to come on , I used to see so many things that I wanted that I had to use the wishlist as I was always going way over my monthly spending cap, now i`m lucky if I see enough to take me to even a 10th of that.

What do I want to see from vendors, I want quality creative new skins for V4, (theres a few vendors still doing these but less and less), I also want scenes, not just in fantasy settings but real world and sci-fi too. And I want clothing for V4, give me those things in quality and i`ll happily spend money on them.

I used to spend so much here, slowly things changed and as a user who sticks with the SM figures there was less and less that I could buy here. I've cut my spending at the marketplace by 97% and if I'm really on a buying spree I'll find something to get here every few months.

There's still a few things here to have my interest that make me click the rendo bookmark in FF but as with posting on these forums, it's become something I do on a monthly basis instead of a daily basis.

Venders has always followed the latest DAZ Character. That just explains it all.

============================================================ 

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Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

RorrKonn posted at 6:06AM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248055

Venders has always followed the latest DAZ Character. That just explains it all.

Right, and DAZ has set out not only to fracture the DAZ/Poser community, it is now in the process of fracturing their own community with Genesis2/Genesis3.

So, they continue to cut the pie smaller and smaller and smaller while these very same vendors wonder what the hell is happening.

That's what happens when one follows a company whose goal is to take a bigger slice of everything in the market. Eventually, they start slicing YOU up too.

I buy stuff for the SM figures and for V4. I don't like the idea to use a figure which can only be used with an plugin, so I don't have much stuff for Genesis 1 or 2 and I'm not really interested in it.

What I would like to buy are characters who look real, even for V4. but more for Roxie, M4, Rex, Pauline, Allyson2, Miki 4. The point is "looking real". I would love to have real bump maps, working specular maps and textures without burned-in shadows or included highlights. Have a look here to see what this stuff could look like.

I do buy interesting enviroments, if they would come with working SuperFly shaders, it would be a great bonus for me.

Clothes, this one is difficult. I would not mind getting more stuff there, but I have loads of stuff for V4 and converting this for other figures isn't that difficult any more. I would rather buy clothes for the SM figures than for V4 to skip that conversion process, but then it would have to be something what I don't have yet. A big plus, again, would be clothes with reasonable shaders, both for Firefly and Superfly, where rubber, metal, denim and silk do not use the same shader.

Since I do most things with SuperFly now, I am very likely to buy dynamic hair. Very, very likely. It looks better, and renders faster.

But I would really, really like more stuff for the SM figures.

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori. 

I am very happy with renders I can produce using Dawn SE so I have yet to upgrade to Poser 11 as I am in no hurry at the moment to use Pauline or Paul. I am interested in Superfly but I would like the option of producing renders without me having to spend time learning Superfly before I can. I am happy to learn but over a period of time while seeing what Superfly can do. I am more likely to spend money here on scenes that have materials for Superfly or on materials themselves to allow me use features of Poser 11 from the day I upgrade. Now that we have Superfly it will be interesting to see how many vendors actually cater for the new features of Poser 11 rather than just supporting Poser 6.

I already have a vast selection of clothes for V4, which can be converted for Dawn, and some good dynamic outfits produced for Dawn. The lack vendor support for Poser and Dawn, along with other issues, have stopped me spending here entirely and until I see products that support Poser, and hopefully the latest versions, that is unlikely to change.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

CrystalGames posted at 9:12AM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248069

RorrKonn posted at 6:06AM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248055

Venders has always followed the latest DAZ Character. That just explains it all.

Right, and DAZ has set out not only to fracture the DAZ/Poser community, it is now in the process of fracturing their own community with Genesis2/Genesis3.

So, they continue to cut the pie smaller and smaller and smaller while these very same vendors wonder what the hell is happening.

That's what happens when one follows a company whose goal is to take a bigger slice of everything in the market. Eventually, they start slicing YOU up too.

my philosophy is I am not dependent on any one certain app but I do try to keep up with the latest CGI tech and I can make my own characters. so no one can slice or dice me. they can war till the end of time but I won't let there war effect me.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

"We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)"

While I agree with this oft repeated complaint I feel compelled to interject that this "legacy software conundrum" is an unavoidable result of SM's business model of selling new versions of the same software every few years that do not offer enough incentives (feature& native figure wise) , to encourage people to $$buy$$ the upgrade.

The result is that new releases of poser have to not only compete with a FREE application like DS but also with every older version of poser dating back to poser 6. why should vendor completely adandon older versions of poser when end users have been given little incentive to do so.??

"Turbosquid, Unity and Unreal are looking more and more appealing - much less work, much less drama and criticism, higher sales prices."

It seem an obvious choice to me, as you would only have to develop for the the recent builds of unity& unreal,secure in the knowledge that your target market will likely not be running a version from seven years ago as these are FREE applications.

My website

YouTube Channel

bantha posted at 1:35PM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248071

What I would like to buy are characters who look real, even for V4. but more for Roxie, M4, Rex, Pauline, Allyson2, Miki 4. The point is "looking real". I would love to have real bump maps, working specular maps and textures without burned-in shadows or included highlights. Have a look here to see what this stuff could look like.

Wow - I didn't know about this before today. This is killer - SM should have used a head like this for Pauline.

Skin shader is simple color map, bump map (from the link), scatter node, and Blinn node (in other words a FireFly shader) but rendered in SuperFly.

---

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Those textures from the link still have burnt in specular. As far as "real" bump maps... what exactly would that be if not a desaturated, tweaked and level adjusted version of the diffuse texture. I like procedural bump myself but that doesn't account for high frequency detail in the color map. A combination of baked out procedural overlayed with gross high frequency detail displacements (moles, large pores, etc) would probably be the best "real bump" solution. Specular is difficult to eliminate in photo derived bump.

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

The Emily bump map is recorded from the actress' actual face pores and wrinkles, using math and thousands of photos. That's a real bump map.

The diffuse texture was derived from photos in which they used polarizers to separate the diffuse reflection from the specular reflection. Where do you see burnt in specular?

---

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

I turned off my Blinn node, removed the bump, and used only a uniform gray dome for lighting. This is basically just the flat diffuse reflection.

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Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

I see specular shine on the forehead of the color map image in the link. Prior to any adjustments via material settings. My comment was "Those textures from the link still have burnt in specular". An observation about the map itself.

---

W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

But, I defer to anything you have to say on that BB, obviously. :) lol.

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

Also, that shadow on the jaw line has to hurt. I'm just not seeing how this map is an optimal map, regardless. Unless it's just intended for a showcase render from a static camera/lighting arrangement?

---

W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

No BB, an absolute VETO. Choose : in R, G or B.

Not on mondays, not on thuesdays or saturdays.

SM should have used a texture set like this for Pauline.

A mesh, any mesh, is just a coathanger to hang a texture on. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a coathanger.

It is texture you see => it is texture and math room setup you render. => And you know it.

LMAF and we all know how often Poser does what it alt to ;)

Wicked render bagginsbill

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

What is it that Poser alt to do that you're having trouble with RorrKonn?

---

W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

EldritchCellar posted at 8:26PM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248178

What is it that Poser alt to do that you're having trouble with RorrKonn?

I need a Poser Queen ;)

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

I gots mine, n she's all mine. Imagination, I say, imagination son.

Missus

---

W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

About the still remaining specularity: link to the description of the project.

They are not Rendo-based know-it-alls, they are academic researchers.

I saw that Emily video a while back. Really cool stuff. Totally beyond. As far as renderosity know it alls... I'll take your word for that chaecuna, I'm just some hobbyist schmuck that drinks too much coffee and likes Poser. He he.

---

W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

RPublishing posted at 10:56AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247573

I actually appreciate hearing from buyers what they would like to see in the Marketplace. And, I hope we can all have a civil conversation about this. It's important to me as a vendor to know what buyers want, and I'm not offended by it, even if some might think it seems like flame baiting. It seems that it's an important issue for buyers, too. So, I'd love all the feedback you will give me (even if it is sent via SiteMail). 'Poser products' is a little bit vague can you be more specific of what products you would like to see for Poser? What figures do you use? Are you wanting props, scenes, clothing, hair, shoes?

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair. So, we have a few G3 items, but have tried to stick more to the Gen2 figures so that even Poser users can use them with the DSON poser compatible files (that we've been providing). Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

Try to get this back on track.

Interesting to hear your input. I'll throw in my $.02, I'm just a hobbyist but I've spent a lot over here at Renderosity.

The Ever looming DAZ-Poser split seems to likely be the biggest factor, IMHO. Genesis 2 has finally been out for a few years now with a lot more products available for it, and seems to be picking up momentum with the free DAZ Studio and the fact that there isn't native support in Poser. Now with Genesis 3 and Iray they are picking up even more momentum.

Clothes fitting is always an issue in Poser and I feel like I'm not alone here. The morph brush is good, but not perfect as it mashes the geometry of the clothing. DAZ lacks the morphing brush, but from what I've gleaned from other artists & hobbyists the fitting is much better out of the gate. IMHO, clothing vendors for V4 would go a long ways toward including Perfect V4.2 into clothing, if possible or two versions. Who is still rendering V4 any more without that or similar mesh fixes?

I feel like I'm at a fork in the road. I like Poser, but Victoria 7 is very appealing. Unfortunately I'm pretty well vested in Poser owning Pro 2014 and the Octane plugin, not to mention a ton of V4 & Poser content. I actually downloaded Studio 4.8 yesterday, and about to pick up V7. I'm wondering if I try switching to Iray, or get the Octane plugin for DAZ. So really two forks for me, go to DAZ? If so, I'm sure I'll keep Poser & Octane for V4 renders. Going with DAZ, go with Octane or Iray? Iray won't be free either with all the shaders to buy.

Lastly, not to make this sound personal, but I feel really burned by the Prime change. So much, in fact I don't think I've purchased a single thing at Renderosity since the change. It made me realize just how much I already have in my library anyways that I haven't gotten around to. I've bought some things over at the other places, and will probably pick up that other premium membership too.

Gator762 posted at 11:11AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249279

RPublishing posted at 10:56AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247573

I actually appreciate hearing from buyers what they would like to see in the Marketplace. And, I hope we can all have a civil conversation about this. It's important to me as a vendor to know what buyers want, and I'm not offended by it, even if some might think it seems like flame baiting. It seems that it's an important issue for buyers, too. So, I'd love all the feedback you will give me (even if it is sent via SiteMail). 'Poser products' is a little bit vague can you be more specific of what products you would like to see for Poser? What figures do you use? Are you wanting props, scenes, clothing, hair, shoes?

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair. So, we have a few G3 items, but have tried to stick more to the Gen2 figures so that even Poser users can use them with the DSON poser compatible files (that we've been providing). Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

Try to get this back on track.

Interesting to hear your input. I'll throw in my $.02, I'm just a hobbyist but I've spent a lot over here at Renderosity.

The Ever looming DAZ-Poser split seems to likely be the biggest factor, IMHO. Genesis 2 has finally been out for a few years now with a lot more products available for it, and seems to be picking up momentum with the free DAZ Studio and the fact that there isn't native support in Poser. Now with Genesis 3 and Iray they are picking up even more momentum.

Clothes fitting is always an issue in Poser and I feel like I'm not alone here. The morph brush is good, but not perfect as it mashes the geometry of the clothing. DAZ lacks the morphing brush, but from what I've gleaned from other artists & hobbyists the fitting is much better out of the gate. IMHO, clothing vendors for V4 would go a long ways toward including Perfect V4.2 into clothing, if possible or two versions. Who is still rendering V4 any more without that or similar mesh fixes?

I feel like I'm at a fork in the road. I like Poser, but Victoria 7 is very appealing. Unfortunately I'm pretty well vested in Poser owning Pro 2014 and the Octane plugin, not to mention a ton of V4 & Poser content. I actually downloaded Studio 4.8 yesterday, and about to pick up V7. I'm wondering if I try switching to Iray, or get the Octane plugin for DAZ. So really two forks for me, go to DAZ? If so, I'm sure I'll keep Poser & Octane for V4 renders. Going with DAZ, go with Octane or Iray? Iray won't be free either with all the shaders to buy.

Lastly, not to make this sound personal, but I feel really burned by the Prime change. So much, in fact I don't think I've purchased a single thing at Renderosity since the change. It made me realize just how much I already have in my library anyways that I haven't gotten around to. I've bought some things over at the other places, and will probably pick up that other premium membership too.

It's not personal, it's bad business on their part - I noticed the only post made in over a week in the Prime forum was someone asking how to cancel their membership. Prime as we knew it is dead. I suspect that it will go away by next July, because there aren't going to be much in the way of renewals.

In Poser, we do have other figures to choose from than just V4. I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a fat chick myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety (or volume). It's still the same generic early 20's Northern Caucasians. A fair bit of the clothing is just recycled V4 (or earlier, in the case of shoes) content.

Good luck with DS - do understand the hidden costs (the cost of the clones isn't cheap & all of the other products you will probably need to get the most out of DS isn't cheap either). What is your plan vis-a-vis the upcoming DS encryption of content?

Personally, I couldn't go back to a Poser 4 workflow myself. Later versions of Poser have allowed me to decouple clothing from figures, which really ups the value of my content.

AFA clothing - the fitting room is like everything else, you do need to use with it to become proficient (And I would highly, highly recommend Lyrra's Fit room magnets for Dawn & Pauline - makes clothing conversion a 30 second process). DS isn't much better with autofit from what I have seen (although I will admit I haven't spent the time to become proficient with it - If DAZ doesn't want to document it, I don't feel a need to spend time figuring out the program - I don't grok the interface.)

I disagree with adding Perfect V4 morphs to clothing, that is what the Copy Morphs From command is for. You are proposing to make the clothing heavier, memory wise. It is more efficient to chuck all of those figure morphs from the clothing and use Copy Morphs From command, along with the Dials to Single Morph command to shrink the memory size of a figure even more.

A lot of us that still use V4 use the WM version, which pretty much eliminates the need for all of those fix products (unless you are doing renders of yoga poses).

To return back on topic.

I would applaud more quality content for Pauline, Dawn, Anastacia,..... and also for G3F.

Indeed there is a lot offered for G3F if you only want strapped bikinis, leather underwear, textures for the same items, ridiculous oversexed poses. I used to spend a lot of money buying content but these days, no. Why would i? Very rarely something worthwhile is offered.

Same thing at DAZ variations on the same characters variations of skimpy clothing, ok there are exceptions as there are on renderosity.

Ah i started using daz studio because of the G3 models, please do not start a debate over poser vs daz, please........! I am still a poser user also and looking forward to the erogenesis character.

There are talented vendors:

blackhearted awsome content, would like to see a blackhearted Pauline version.

stonemason working for daz but great artist

erogenesis

hivewire have you seen the horse character?

powerage

hongyu

outoftouch ok very skimpy stuff but quality

bluetreestudio

greenpots

xameva these days over @ renderotica

there are lot's more

I really have nothing against skimpy clothing or poses, i just would like to have some other content to.

Ok as a content maker you have to make a profit so there is a lot more work on making a model like the "London" scene by stonemason offered @ daz the price is high (but it sells) as a consumer i am willing to pay this premium price. I am willing to pay more for stuff made by powerage because it is clearly so much more complex then the other stuff on offer.

Or is there really no demand for these kind of items in that case the problem is caused by us (in general) the end users. Has there been a shift in users demand?

On the bright side i am spending a lot less now.

Michel

@ssgbryan

**I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a fat chick myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety (or volume). It's still the same generic early 20's Northern Caucasians. A fair bit of the clothing is just recycled V4 (or earlier, in the case of shoes) content. **

I would suggest that you try G3F (it is free) before you state this. It is obvious that you have not done this.

I have yet to see a figure at this price point that offers such control, quality bending and morphing.

Michel

michelvanspeybroeck posted at 2:40PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249338

@ssgbryan

**I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a fat chick myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety (or volume). It's still the same generic early 20's Northern Caucasians. A fair bit of the clothing is just recycled V4 (or earlier, in the case of shoes) content. **

I would suggest that you try G3F (it is free) before you state this. It is obvious that you have not done this.

I have yet to see a figure at this price point that offers such control, quality bending and morphing.

Michel

I have g3f (and the g1 & g2 series of figures, along with about 70% of the characters released for them) along with DS 4.8 (Not going to encrypted content with DS 4.9) - I am not impressed. I haven't seen any advancement in the figures that would justify spending money on them. I have also done a TCO analysis for each of the genesis series. They aren't good values for the money, unless you buy at 70% off.

The other problem is that I would have to use Daz Studio - the feature set is much too limited for what I do.

EldritchCellar posted at 5:06PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247902

That's Lucas, he's been in development for about 5 years I guess (sorry ambientshade, he has). I've always been puzzled why ambientshade (formerly ExistentialDisorder) hasn't hastened to finish the guy... there was quite an interest in the community when he was modeling the first version. There's a thread about him buried somewhere round here. Perhaps best he waited though, in light of the rigging advances that have come along since. I think that dress/outfit model is really nice and should also be a priority for target Poser/DS.

Just under 4 years, actually. And most of that time has been spent working on other paying projects that didn't allow me to focus on him. It's not easy building a human figure from scratch especially when you also have to figure out the intricacies of the software that are not documented anywhere and scour websites and forums looking for the answers to specific questions on how to work around various obscure bugs and oddities (the user manual for poser is very rudimentary and barely touches on any of its rigging features at any length. At best its an overview). Plus I didn't want to rush it and wind up putting yet another substandard figure out there that no one would use as that's just a waste of time and energy, especially considering how little attention non-daz figures get from the community no matter how good they are, so I've gone back and forth a lot trying to sort out whether I even wanted to finish them. But that's also why I started posting progress shots on tumblr to see if it gained any traction. I've also been working on his female counterpart along the way, and both of them have been through a number of resculpts, re-rigs, etc, so they aren't even really the same figure as before. I figured it's best to finish the female first, since they always get the most attention.

I thought they were both really good. You should finish them when you have the time. :)

Laurie

Thanks Laurie. I've actually been working full time on them for the last few weeks. At this point it's become a personal challenge whether they gain any significant interest or not at least they'll be done.

AmbientShade posted at 5:47PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249392

Thanks Laurie. I've actually been working full time on them for the last few weeks. At this point it's become a personal challenge whether they gain any significant interest or not at least they'll be done.

I love what I've seen during the progress of your figures. Poser desperately needs high quality figure and your sculpting alone stands out from other figures. so I'm definitely interested in the male

I'm interested in the male as well. I'm about sick of females now ;). Just personal opinion tho. LOL

Laurie

AmbientShade posted at 7:55AM Sat, 16 January 2016 - #4249392

Thanks Laurie. I've actually been working full time on them for the last few weeks. At this point it's become a personal challenge whether they gain any significant interest or not at least they'll be done.

If you put up a crowdfunding thingy I'll definitely throw some money at you :D

Just browing past and adding my interest for the male. We have tons of weight-mapped females by now. I, for one, really wish for a weight-mapped equivalent of Apollo Maximus as far as versatility goes. (Tyler is awesome, but he always looks like Tyler. Same thing for Dusk.)

Thanks Elena_c, DreaminGirl, adzan. It's good to know there's at least some interest in them still.

AmbientShade : Are you no longer a Forum Moderator ?

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Yeah RorrKonn, no more deleted images. Notice that? Lol.

"But back on topic" (Said in pompous forum goer voice)... Oh yeah, something about zombies in shopping malls right? ;)

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But smart alec-ing aside... and continuing the OT trend (I guess?)

AmbientShade, if these figures you're developing are in active progress I'd seriously consider the male figure as the Flag Ship. As has been said, the female market is full I think. There's obviously more interest from forum people (for whatever that's worth in the real perspective of things) over the male. To top that off you have Erogenesis' PE looming on the horizon. So, with Dawn, V4, Genesis?, and PE to contend with it sounds like really choppy waters. IMVHO.

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Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
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ssgbryan posted at 7:51AM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249310

Gator762 posted at 11:11AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249279

RPublishing posted at 10:56AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247573

I actually appreciate hearing from buyers what they would like to see in the Marketplace. And, I hope we can all have a civil conversation about this. It's important to me as a vendor to know what buyers want, and I'm not offended by it, even if some might think it seems like flame baiting. It seems that it's an important issue for buyers, too. So, I'd love all the feedback you will give me (even if it is sent via SiteMail). 'Poser products' is a little bit vague can you be more specific of what products you would like to see for Poser? What figures do you use? Are you wanting props, scenes, clothing, hair, shoes?

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair. So, we have a few G3 items, but have tried to stick more to the Gen2 figures so that even Poser users can use them with the DSON poser compatible files (that we've been providing). Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

Try to get this back on track.

Interesting to hear your input. I'll throw in my $.02, I'm just a hobbyist but I've spent a lot over here at Renderosity.

The Ever looming DAZ-Poser split seems to likely be the biggest factor, IMHO. Genesis 2 has finally been out for a few years now with a lot more products available for it, and seems to be picking up momentum with the free DAZ Studio and the fact that there isn't native support in Poser. Now with Genesis 3 and Iray they are picking up even more momentum.

Clothes fitting is always an issue in Poser and I feel like I'm not alone here. The morph brush is good, but not perfect as it mashes the geometry of the clothing. DAZ lacks the morphing brush, but from what I've gleaned from other artists & hobbyists the fitting is much better out of the gate. IMHO, clothing vendors for V4 would go a long ways toward including Perfect V4.2 into clothing, if possible or two versions. Who is still rendering V4 any more without that or similar mesh fixes?

I feel like I'm at a fork in the road. I like Poser, but Victoria 7 is very appealing. Unfortunately I'm pretty well vested in Poser owning Pro 2014 and the Octane plugin, not to mention a ton of V4 & Poser content. I actually downloaded Studio 4.8 yesterday, and about to pick up V7. I'm wondering if I try switching to Iray, or get the Octane plugin for DAZ. So really two forks for me, go to DAZ? If so, I'm sure I'll keep Poser & Octane for V4 renders. Going with DAZ, go with Octane or Iray? Iray won't be free either with all the shaders to buy.

Lastly, not to make this sound personal, but I feel really burned by the Prime change. So much, in fact I don't think I've purchased a single thing at Renderosity since the change. It made me realize just how much I already have in my library anyways that I haven't gotten around to. I've bought some things over at the other places, and will probably pick up that other premium membership too.

It's not personal, it's bad business on their part - I noticed the only post made in over a week in the Prime forum was someone asking how to cancel their membership. Prime as we knew it is dead. I suspect that it will go away by next July, because there aren't going to be much in the way of renewals.

In Poser, we do have other figures to choose from than just V4. I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a fat chick myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety (or volume). It's still the same generic early 20's Northern Caucasians. A fair bit of the clothing is just recycled V4 (or earlier, in the case of shoes) content.

Good luck with DS - do understand the hidden costs (the cost of the clones isn't cheap & all of the other products you will probably need to get the most out of DS isn't cheap either). What is your plan vis-a-vis the upcoming DS encryption of content?

Personally, I couldn't go back to a Poser 4 workflow myself. Later versions of Poser have allowed me to decouple clothing from figures, which really ups the value of my content.

AFA clothing - the fitting room is like everything else, you do need to use with it to become proficient (And I would highly, highly recommend Lyrra's Fit room magnets for Dawn & Pauline - makes clothing conversion a 30 second process). DS isn't much better with autofit from what I have seen (although I will admit I haven't spent the time to become proficient with it - If DAZ doesn't want to document it, I don't feel a need to spend time figuring out the program - I don't grok the interface.)

I disagree with adding Perfect V4 morphs to clothing, that is what the Copy Morphs From command is for. You are proposing to make the clothing heavier, memory wise. It is more efficient to chuck all of those figure morphs from the clothing and use Copy Morphs From command, along with the Dials to Single Morph command to shrink the memory size of a figure even more.

A lot of us that still use V4 use the WM version, which pretty much eliminates the need for all of those fix products (unless you are doing renders of yoga poses).

Hidden costs? Well I have just started playing with DS 4.8, I haven't tallied up the costs yet. So far, it seems fairly substantial for V7, G3 base is included, but then need V7, then morphs, facial morphs, V7 HD (personally). Then there is the cost of Iray vs Octane... Still not an easy decision, as Octane will run me about $160 for the plugin, Iray I'll probably buy some shaders. I'm familiar with Octane, and with what I'm seen provides a bit better results. But as my use with Poser means I'm re-doing textures for everything. If products come with good Iray out of the box that's less time spent. Not familiar with DS, so I don't know what other hidden costs there are.

I don't know about the DRM, I just started considering DS. It's not too much of a worry, as I buy everything of course. I do wonder about content from other sites like here and RDNA and how the DRM will effect it, and especially purchased content I customize myself - will DRM mess that up?

According to michelvanspeybroeck, a lot of V4 content can be converted. Which would be nice, I have a pretty big closet full of V4 content. A thread I started

Perhaps I have to go back to the fitting room and Copy Morphs From command? I've only tried them a few times, and I thought the results sucked. In the fitting room, the meshes would get butchered. I've found better results using adjustment morphs built into the clothes to get as close as I can, then the morph brush for the rest. The amount of time could vary there. I'm not sure I know about the correct procedure for copy morphs from command, it's been a while since I've tried it. Fitting clothes has been an annoyance I have often skipped them, heck I usually want the NSFW version anyways.

Kazam561 posted at 12:18AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4247765

What must Renderosity do if it wishes to survive? Currently it's becoming a Genesis figure store. Realize this... Daz's current G3/V7 purposely has no intended support for Smith Micro's Poser. So let's follow their train of thought. Daz wishes to own the market. Not just on software but eventually figures (at this price range). Daz has changed supporting a competitor's software and thus sacrificed a large consumer spending group in plan of a long term goal. How does this affect Renderosity who sells G2/G3/V7 items? If the Daz's plan comes to fruition and Smith Micro decides to fold up or go a completely different route then Daz will have the market for these type of figures. So let's take the point home. How does Daz own the market place? They change their EULA. A EULA which will make it impossible to sell any support for Daz figures at any non-Daz store. Daz wouldn't change a EULA to spite others would it? Nooooooo.... That's never been done before in business. Wake up Renderosity. You can't afford to play follow the leader when their plan is to starve you out of business.

You, as a company must incentivize. You must use your current strength with your current vendors. Yes you take a small hit, but you need to invest in a future. Either make better deals with vendors to get them to provide more varied content or start folding up your shop now. Why should I buy an outfit here for a G3/V7 figure from a vendor who's got a shop at Daz with an equivalent outfit for 50% to 75% off? Right now, even though I'm not a D/S user, Daz's Platinum Club has better deals than Prime.

Ask customers what they want. Run polls asking about outfits, and props. Have vendors work with customers to custom make items. Yes it's a lot of work, but it will revitalize the market place.

And to vendors, this ship is leaving too. Sure raise prices while you can.... if you can stand losing business. Both sides of the shop need to be flexible if they want to survive. Less stores, and less programs mean a worse time for vendors too.

If they make a EULA .That you can only sell DAZ content at DAZ.com . That would burn stores.

If they make a EULA .That you can only give away DAZ content at DAZ.com . That would burn stores.

If they make a EULA .That you can not make DAZ characters. That would burn DAZ Dawn & anyone else planning to make DAZ characters.

From a Business point of view it sounds like DAZ would have total control. Isn't that what business War for ?

From a Vendors point of view DAZ could set the prices. Like TurboSquid does.

From a Humans point of view DAZ might come off a bit as of a Tyrant.

A EULA like that would be a gamble for DAZ.

So they would half to change the EULA little buy little by little.

So it won't be a explosion in your face more like a faint whisper.

Judas Priest - Tyrant

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You're missing one main point. It wouldn't actually be in Daz 3D's best interest to do any of those things.

If they make a EULA .That you can only sell DAZ content at DAZ.com . That would burn stores. If they make a EULA .That you can only give away DAZ content at DAZ.com . That would burn stores. If they make a EULA .That you can not make DAZ characters. That would burn DAZ Dawn & anyone else planning to make DAZ characters.

So when someone goes to another store for a Daz Studio product or sharecg and downloads a freebie. What do they need? Well Daz Studio Obviously. Where do they get Daz Studio? Daz3D.com right. Any idea what a fortune 500 company would spend to drive foot traffic to their websites and stores? Why would Daz3D cut off the hand that feeds? The gain they would make would be much less than what they would lose.

From a Business point of view it sounds like DAZ would have total control. Isn't that what business War for ?

Again at a base level this may seem right, but in reality it's much more complex. Competition drives innovation, increases market size and has a whole host of positive impacts on a market as a whole. It's not always in a company's best interest to destroy all competition mercilessly.

Most of this idea is based on speculative reasoning. It's about the same as me stating "I have heard SM have decided that they are going to target more uptown markets on their next version and plan to quadruple the price and drop the standard version, having only a pro version at $2500!!!" Feel free to quote me out of context and make sure to include the additional exclamation points too.

Could they? Sure. WIll they? Not likely. Is there any evidence to support either theory other than "the sky is falling" type of thinking? None that I can see.

It's basically saying that Daz 3D's plan will be to destroy their entire business model and make changes that when looked at rationally could only adversely affect their business. So they can all kick back and laugh evilly as the industry collapses... sounds like nonsense to me.

"In Poser, we do have other figures to choose from than just V4. I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a FAT CHICK myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety"

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I try not to address people directly but this juvenile term "Fat chick" that you are using to try to discredit Daz is getting beyond My ability to ignore.

Here is a simple click& load screen cap of the genesi 3 Female with no morphs applied I gather from your oft repeated remark that you are a typical North America white male who thinks that any female whos back side does not look like a poorly feed 11 year old boy qualifies as "Fat"

It is due to congnitavely dissonent Standards Like yours that mental disorders Like Anorexia are Rampant in your American society.

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wolf359 posted at 10:27AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250127

"In Poser, we do have other figures to choose from than just V4. I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a FAT CHICK myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety"

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I try not to address people directly but this juvenile term "Fat chick" that you are using to try to discredit Daz is getting beyond My ability to ignore.

Here is a simple click& load screen cap of the genesi 3 Female with no morphs applied I gather from your oft repeated remark that you are a typical North America white male who thinks that any female whos back side does not look like a poorly feed 11 year old boy qualifies as "Fat"

It is due to congnitavely dissonent Standards Like yours that mental disorders Like Anorexia are Rampant in your American society.

Wolf, I frequently disagree with your posts, but.... man, I love this one.

ssgbryan, I frequently agree with your posts, but enough with the "fat chick" stuff. I doubt that most of us has any idea what you're talking about anyway. The Genesis 3 female base? That would be ridiculous, as Wolf points out above. Bethany 7? Sure, she's no stick insect, but still well below the average size for all but far east Asian females. If that equals "fat" in your estimation, you may want a bit of a perspective adjustment. I realize that most CGI users are young and male, but the range of male desire is wide enough to encompass a lot more than skeletal to seriously underfed. And you, yourself, keep telling us how much you value diversity in figures. Well, apparently you're not the only one, only some of us also value diversity in, ya know, body type as well.

And finally, not everyone is interested in rendering their sexual fantasy or the prevailing Western ideal of it. Some might even want to render people who look kinda like they do. I doubt the Poser/Daz community is made up of gaunt runway models and chemically enhanced professional athletes, so....

Edit: Also, using a physical attribute as a pejorative is just plain bad manners. I learned that in Kindergarten.

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wolf359 posted at 2:15PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250127

I try not to address people directly but this juvenile term "Fat chick" that you are using to try to discredit Daz is getting beyond My ability to ignore.

Here is a simple click& load screen cap of the genesi 3 Female with no morphs applied I gather from your oft repeated remark that you are a typical North America white male who thinks that any female whos back side does not look like a poorly feed 11 year old boy qualifies as "Fat"

It is due to congnitavely dissonent Standards Like yours that mental disorders Like Anorexia are Rampant in your American society.

We North America White Males do not judge females compared to poorly feed 11 year old boys. Females are judged compared to are Movie Starlets. We do not have any poorly feed children.

Anorexia does not run Rampant in American society ,not even for are Asian females

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moriador posted at 2:31PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250174

Wolf, I frequently disagree with your posts, but.... man, I love this one.

ssgbryan, I frequently agree with your posts, but enough with the "fat chick" stuff. I doubt that most of us has any idea what you're talking about anyway. The Genesis 3 female base? That would be ridiculous, as Wolf points out above. Bethany 7? Sure, she's no stick insect, but still well below the average size for all but far east Asian females. If that equals "fat" in your estimation, you may want a bit of a perspective adjustment. I realize that most CGI users are young and male, but the range of male desire is wide enough to encompass a lot more than skeletal to seriously underfed. And you, yourself, keep telling us how much you value diversity in figures. Well, apparently you're not the only one, only some of us also value diversity in, ya know, body type as well.

And finally, not everyone is interested in rendering their sexual fantasy or the prevailing Western ideal of it. Some might even want to render people who look kinda like they do. I doubt the Poser/Daz community is made up of gaunt runway models and chemically enhanced professional athletes, so....

Edit: Also, using a physical attribute as a pejorative is just plain bad manners. I learned that in Kindergarten.

but using pejorative against a country is good manners ? ;)

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I gotta agree with Wolf and Moriador here, enough with the 'fat chick'. Personally I have no interest in G3, and I find V7 to be downright ugly, but Bethany, her I LIKE!

Besides, in many parts of the US, she would be considered quite slim indeed..

True, enough of that "Fat Chick" already.

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Sail out to sea and do new things.
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Avatar image of me done by Chidori. 

Congratulations, not one of you got my point - let me break it down some more:

Arabella 7: Height: 5'8.5" (173.9 cm) Bust Circumference: 31.1" (78.9 cm) Waist Circumference: 22.1" (56.1 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 34.6" (87.8 cm)

Bethany 7 Height: 5' 8" (174.2 cm) Bust Circumference: 40.0" (101.3 cm) Waist Circumference: 31.3" (79.5 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 42.8" (108.7 cm)

Eva 7: Height: 5' 11" (181.1 cm) Bust Circumference: 35.3" (89.7 cm) Waist Circumference: 24.5" (62.2 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 36.5" (92.7 cm)

Gia 7 Height: 5'11" (179.3 cm) Bust Circumference: 37" (94.3 cm) Waist Circumference: 26" (66.5 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 37" (93.8 cm)

Josie 7: Height: 5' 4.7" (164.3 cm) Bust Circumference: 30.2" (76.7 cm) Waist Circumference: 21.8" (55.4 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 31.1" (79.0 cm)

Karen 7: Height: 5' 11" (179.6 cm) Bust Circumference: 36.0" (91.44 cm) Waist Circumference: 26.0" (66.2 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 37.6" (95.5 cm)

Olympia 7 Height: 5'9.3" (176.11 cm) Bust Circumference: 37.5" (95.25 cm) Waist Circumference: 27.3" (69.31 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 39.9" (101.53 cm)

Victoria 7: Height: 5' 10" (179.3 cm) Bust Circumference: 35.9" (91.2 cm) Waist Circumference: 23.9" (60.7 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 37.0" (93.9 cm)

Bethany 7 is nothing more than V7 with a voluptuous morph built in. All of the sculpts are just minor variations of the base figure Now let's generate the TCO cost for the product. I'll use V4 as a baseline.

V4 TCO Costs: Base Mesh ($29.99) Morphs ++ ($29.99) Total Cost - ($59.98) Now you have access to literally thousands of characters.

Fast forward to genesis 3 (I'll use Bethany 7): G3F base mesh (Free) Head & Body morphs ($39.99) Bethany 7 ($44.95) Bethany 7 HD Morphs ($39.99) Total Cost: ($183.94) Congratulations, as a minimum, you spent an extra $44.95 to use literally 4 characters - Camille, Ginger, Barbarian & Succubus, and Sophia (at $17.20 average cost apiece) This breaks out to $28.44 per character - with another $10 each if you want to throw in the HD morphs. $28 to $38 per character, not mesh, but character. Now compare this to any other current figure. Getting value for the dollar?

You can do this for EVERY SINGLE FIGURE. As an exercise for anyone reading - now run this with the male figures - here is a hint: there are less than 60 male characters made during the life-cycle for the entire genesis 2 male and all of the sculpts. Poser's G2 male line of Simon, James, Koji & Kelvin had more characters made for them - and they were widely mocked for having "no content" during their life-cycle.

And one more thing...... Can ANYONE demonstrate the alleged "better bending" that genesis 3 brings to the table? I would like to see is 1 fully clothed genesis 2 figure and 1 genesis 3 figure in the same pose that can show HOW g3 is better than g2.

If you want a anatomically correct character it's a $120.00+

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Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Well, if the figure wears clothing, bending doesn't matter that much. But let's be honest, judging by what content sells the most, the vast majority of Poser/DS users use the figures for porn, in which case the bending DOES matter :P

Please note: this lock is because there is too much back and forth negative feedback on both programs. This thread is no longer constructive (if it ever was).

Boni

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