Razor42 From The Expendables 3 - Funny Art Scene

I don't care about pablo picasso ,basquiat or the 1% that has millions to burn. I don't care if they all over dozed on angles dust.

Hmmm?? Angel Dust? Would that make them Heavenly!?

It would also be very easy to find an "expert" that thought the purity of the generic lamp was somehow more truthful. There's merits to that, too. I can find art in just about anything to be honest, perhaps not to my liking but still. I think I'm troubled by automation in general and where to draw the line. Especially when artistic self value, ego assessments, and the individual are involved. But all this is way down the rabbit hole and I'm glad I don't have to write papers anymore. Back to my little kitsch maquettes...

I don't want to pee all over anyone's strawberries but discussions about "What is Art?" really should be subject to some equivalent to Godwin's Law. Simply put, nobody can define what "Art" is and anyone who says they can is a liar or a fool or both. The only honest things anyone can say about any created work is if they like it, and what they believe its technical merits to be. Anything else, and I do mean anything, including aesthetics, is simply an opinion.

If you like something, great. If not, also great. If shvrdavid's right about us all being able to have civil discussions, though, well I'm all for that.

Addendum: Eldritch - that's outstanding work.

First @shrdavid ,Thanks for the detailed answer.

Now that the discussion seems to have, yet again, performed a "Crazy Ivan"* *(see the hunt for Red October),

I will offer my ,admittedly jaded, opinion on the subject of "Art".

I come from a "fine Art" background. Started with the classic shaded pencil drawings in junior high and was easily exceeding the abilities of my art teachers by senior high.

later as an adult , after an overseas tour in the US Air Force,

I moved onto Airbrush& acrylic painting ,inspired By the likes of Boris Valejo& Micheal Whelan, and immersed myself in the "Fine Art" community of My hometown of Alexandria Virginia in Historic Old town on the banks of the Potomac River.

I have never Endured the vicissitudes of a more insufferable infestation of bloviating,self important, ,validation seeking ,neurotic,Rabble than those I encountered in the "fine Art community".

It was all based on who you knew, who was from your College alumni, and most importantly your ultra leftist political affiliation.

I quickly Eradicated any silly notion of selling "paintings" from a studio space at the legendary "Torpedo Factory", from my brain and Started learning QuarkXpress and Photoshop.

And of course went on to a 19 year Career in Print prepress and Later Graphic Design ,and actually worked for the same large format Display company as forum member "Shante" for a While.

At any rate I Prefer to call myself a "Visual Communications Producer",with 3D/CG animation as My preferred Medium but will still Crank out some good old Print design when the client wants to Pay my rate.

"Bottom line, Wolf, you know me, If I could create my own Poser Sheitz I would and would have NO NEED for anything new. Having no need for anything new or anyone else's stuff I would never venture here into these sites or forums.which from a greater view, is a waste of time.... I can't, as so many Poser users CAN'T."

Carm (Shante) you do not have to become a content creator to move forward. Other than some very simple hard surface models I dont create anything. I use All Premade Figures an Environments( Daz,StoneMason etc)

But I am an "objective based learner" who takes advantage of the vast task specific resources of the internet in the form of "how to" videos.

Everything I know about Modeling, Visual effects in After effects& Autodesk Combustion Nexlimit Realflow and Animating in Iclone etc. was learned from a FREE videos some helpful persons posted online.

you dont have to remember everything in video tutes just learn enough for whatever specific creative task you are trying to achieve at the moment and its on to the next task.

Actually in 2016 you can make characters with out knowing how to model or sculpt. just make a 3D scan of some real humans.Don't really need to know how to retopologize either. Just use MudBox ,zBrush and there new guild lines .you might need a little tweaking here or there but. It's all low level skills ,no rocket science needed ;)

From time to time I kind of miss working with real world mediums. but I haven't messed with them since 1997 ,well except with the grand kids. I drew tats on the grand kids with permanent markers ,parents didn't see the humor in it ,LOL.

I like cool Art .Boris n Royo ,kiss love gun ,Iron Maiden killers ,nazareth no mean city album covers. etc etc

A peace that gets a emotion out of .like my made of scars.

Or a peace that really says something. I think one of the greatest works of Art ever made is the Memorial Vietnam Wall Painting.

wolf359 posted at 4:53PM Sat, 12 March 2016 - #4260641

First @shrdavid ,Thanks for the detailed answer.

Now that the discussion seems to have, yet again, performed a "Crazy Ivan"* *(see the hunt for Red October),

I will offer my ,admittedly jaded, opinion on the subject of "Art".

I come from a "fine Art" background. Started with the classic shaded pencil drawings in junior high and was easily exceeding the abilities of my art teachers by senior high.

later as an adult , after an overseas tour in the US Air Force,

I moved onto Airbrush& acrylic painting ,inspired By the likes of Boris Valejo& Micheal Whelan, and immersed myself in the "Fine Art" community of My hometown of Alexandria Virginia in Historic Old town on the banks of the Potomac River.

I have never Endured the vicissitudes of a more insufferable infestation of bloviating,self important, ,validation seeking ,neurotic,Rabble than those I encountered in the "fine Art community".

It was all based on who you knew, who was from your College alumni, and most importantly your ultra leftist political affiliation.

I quickly Eradicated any silly notion of selling "paintings" from a studio space at the legendary "Torpedo Factory", from my brain and Started learning QuarkXpress and Photoshop.

And of course went on to a 19 year Career in Print prepress and Later Graphic Design ,and actually worked for the same large format Display company as forum member "Shante" for a While.

At any rate I Prefer to call myself a "Visual Communications Producer",with 3D/CG animation as My preferred Medium but will still Crank out some good old Print design when the client wants to Pay my rate.

"Bottom line, Wolf, you know me, If I could create my own Poser Sheitz I would and would have NO NEED for anything new. Having no need for anything new or anyone else's stuff I would never venture here into these sites or forums.which from a greater view, is a waste of time.... I can't, as so many Poser users CAN'T."

Carm (Shante) you do not have to become a content creator to move forward. Other than some very simple hard surface models I dont create anything. I use All Premade Figures an Environments( Daz,StoneMason etc)

But I am an "objective based learner" who takes advantage of the vast task specific resources of the internet in the form of "how to" videos.

Everything I know about Modeling, Visual effects in After effects& Autodesk Combustion Nexlimit Realflow and Animating in Iclone etc. was learned from a FREE videos some helpful persons posted online.

you dont have to remember everything in video tutes just learn enough for whatever specific creative task you are trying to achieve at the moment and its on to the next task.

Issues have always been the same for me old friend. Names. Numbers. Sequences. Are the issues that have always messed with my learning, my freaking life. You know that as do many people in these forums though having known me personally I trust you believe what I say more than anyone else. I have tried but always failed to do what you advise. I surprise myself I learned what i did to work where we were for 6 years before i got thrown away. I was the best they had at the time but still I got shit canned. I surprise myself i have learned what little I have managed in Digital especially Poser but way to little for all the time I have worked in it and now just not enough anymore. It was never Art nor is now. I just do it to get the images I have always had in my head. Like then friend i do the best i can now, with what little I manage to bring to bear but for most things that is no longer enough to keep me going! Blame the muse, blame my head, blame technology I can no longer wrestle into submission. Needless to say I miss being able to honestly call myself an artist, not for the shallow title but for the release it has given me since 5th grade. A LOOOONG time creating "art". "God gives us all we need for our journey....not always what we want...but enough to give our lives a sense of purpose and comfort. As we get closer to the end of our journey he begins to reclaim those gifts." So it is happening with me Wolf and I have learned year by year, to accept that reality. It is feeling better as time flies to exhale and let go. Resignation is so damn liberating. :)

Maybe that's my trouble, shante... I don't like getting old. I'll be 57 in a few weeks and I hate the general falling to bits feeling that seems to come with it. Arthritis, COPD and a few other things really get my goat. As for other things, I love learning new stuff but time itself is something of a luxury, being a father to two young (5 and 6) children with autism. Most days are relatively free since they're both at school but there are many days I just don't have the energy or will to do much. That's what annoys me the most, the feeling of passing time, wasted time that I'll never get back. I'm running out of it, too. I know I've lived more than half my span and that first part went by in a flash.

Still, mustn't grumble, eh? ;)

Blood Red Skies

Da Vinci grew old and had a stroke so he couldn't use his arm any more ,he was still Da Vinci ,Where entering good company.

Never surrender ,fight till your last breath.

Solar Angels

RorrKonn posted at 12:39AM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260723

Blood Red Skies

Da Vinci grew old and had a stroke so he couldn't use his arm any more ,he was still Da Vinci ,Where entering good company.

Never surrender ,fight till your last breath.

Solar Angels

DaVini died in his bed whispering over and over with his last breath: "Tell me if anything was ever done....tell me if anything was ever done........tell me...."

Not so grand an epitaph....I seem to be whispering a bit louder sometimes, the same damn thing.

Arthritis ... yup. I'm 77 now and it's the arthritis that irritates me most. I don't call myself an artist; can't draw or paint for toffee; can't do much with my left hand now, but as long as the right hand can manage the mouse I'll produce the pretty pictures I like making. Just as well we don't draw with our knees; they don't work properly either!

"I have never Endured the vicissitudes of a more insufferable infestation of bloviating,self important, ,validation seeking ,neurotic,Rabble than those I encountered in the "fine Art community"."

That's a stereotype if I ever saw one. ,,A clumsilyAssemBled One,. 1.5 stars. Lol.

wolf359 posted at 1:18PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260251

This is the core reason why antonia FAILED this why Project E will ultimately FAIL and scarlet and Dawn etc etc etc..

Project E will not fail because I know one artist that is going to use her actively. Me. If nobody else wants to use her that's none of my business. Better yet, she has been entertaining people for well over a year in two popular free comics. That's what its about for me. I have comics to make, I will use project E, just like all those Maya and Max and Lightwave and C4D artists model and rig their own figure that will never hit the market. It would be cool if I could make a bit of pocket change with her, but I'm not entering this figure race so that I can start setting up yet another ridiculous tribe.

Good rebuttal on that Ero. Thought that call out was a little bold on wolf's part. I also think that many of the insults on the forums to teyon's work have been rather callous. You don't seem to have much of a choice on the "ridiculous tribe" thing though. Totally illogical and not at all practical from a pragmatic perspective in such a market driven art realm, and let's face it, most of your work is market oriented, but it would have really been something if PE had sprang fully formed like venus on a half shell into the Poserverse without all the hype. This isn't a malicious opinion, I think she looks gorgeous, more like a what if opinion.

...thought that gallery comment on one my images at CGBytes "you made that???" was hilarious BTW.

Your comic is free? I might have to make a reassessment of my market oriented comment, and clarify that this in itself is not a bad thing. The quality seems to be there. I'll have to check it out. Haven't really looked at too many Poser erotica comics, I like some traditional media comics of that nature though. Richard Corben, Milo Manara, Shunya Yamashita, and Range Murata are some favorites...

EldritchCellar posted at 2:20PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260758

Good rebuttal on that Ero. Thought that call out was a little bold on wolf's part. I also think that many of the insults on the forums to teyon's work have been rather callous. You don't seem to have much of a choice on the "ridiculous tribe" thing though. Totally illogical and not at all practical from a pragmatic perspective in such a market driven art realm, and let's face it, most of your work is market oriented, but it would have really been something if PE had sprang fully formed like venus on a half shell into the Poserverse without all the hype. This isn't a malicious opinion, I think she looks gorgeous, more like a what if opinion.

...thought that gallery comment on one my images at CGBytes "you made that???" was hilarious BTW.

Granted a lot of what I do does seem like hyping, but its also to hype myself up. Its not an easy task, making a solid figure that really looks good, like my helpers will attest. I maintain, PE is definitely about art, and the fun of it. And that definitely involves a bit of hype, fun, enthusiasm. Whether that will pay off remains to be seen, but I need to stand firm in my initial motivation in designing this figure, I need her for my own work. I hope that can guarantee some level of usefulness for other artists. And I repeat, how many professionals have made their own figure, perhaps miles better than anything out there, that might have never even seen the inside of a 3D content store. This is about art, and artists, at the end of the day, no matter how amateur or professional.

EldritchCellar posted at 2:35PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260759

Your comic is free? I might have to make a reassessment of my market oriented comment, and clarify that this in itself is not a bad thing. The quality seems to be there. I'll have to check it out. Haven't really looked at too many Poser erotica comics, I like some traditional media comics of that nature though. Richard Corben, Milo Manara, Shunya Yamashita, and Range Murata are some favorites...

yes two of them are free. If I didn't have to eat, I'd give all my stuff out for free. Some declare me insane but the base of PE will also be free... wait maybe I am insane...

Manara is brilliant!

"And I repeat, how many professionals have made their own figure, perhaps miles better than anything out there, that might have never even seen the inside of a 3D content store"

I'd wager probably more than have made it into a store. A mass appeal human poser figure is expected to be so many things to so many people rather than a unique thing seems like...

Manara is some kind of genius I'd say. IMO the sheer amount of feminine beauty he can conjure with a few pen strokes has to be some kind of genius...

Apologies for the OT.

EldritchCellar posted at 5:35PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260768

Manara is some kind of genius I'd say. IMO the sheer amount of feminine beauty he can conjure with a few pen strokes has to be some kind of genius...

Apologies for the OT.

If it takes a few pen-strokes to charm a lover of art into understanding beauty, how many mouse-strokes will it take to compel that same mind into it's equivalent?

Good question. Depends if it's using iconography or emulation of real world physics as its mode of communication. In the Poserverse the art is striving for greater realism. The highest praise seems to be "that looks real!" So I guess the question should be "is indistinguishable enough or transcendence". You don't hear "thats unreal" or naive or primitive in the praise lexicon too often herebouts. Generally speaking. Anyway, you're preaching to the choir here. I like and make digital art. Too.

There sure is a hell of alot of stunning talent out there, it's certainly not a village anymore ... Wish I could be around for another hundred years to see where it all goes. Eventually the tech is going to have to plateau, just as everything does more or less. I think that's when things will start to get really interesting.

EldritchCellar posted at 12:22PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260745

"I have never Endured the vicissitudes of a more insufferable infestation of bloviating,self important, ,validation seeking ,neurotic,Rabble than those I encountered in the "fine Art community"."

That's a stereotype if I ever saw one. ,,A clumsilyAssemBled One,. 1.5 stars. Lol.

Call it a “stereotype” if that pleases you .it is my personal observation of the various personality types I encountered at the Showings Where my painting were Featured/Sold in the northern Virginia &Washington DC market. It is entirely possible you had a different experience in your local/regional fine art community so good on you.

Mine was perhaps 10 percent made up of people with actual Artistic Ability who created work in a specific medium and 90 percent “Fringers”, no talent wannabees, Art History majors.”groupies and local political Glitterati (sp?).

But I am not bitter as I did not “drink the coolaid” or “chase the noble starving artist Dream” I taught myself Employable skills that made Decent income for my Family(Graphic Design For Press) and later graduated to CG animation & Visual Effects.

@ Erogenesis you have made a well constructed, advanced poser figure for your personal use But in the larger context of Becoming a major replacement for V4/Challenger to Daz genesis(as many in this community are Clearly hoping) , I don’t personally Imagine such a scenario. This is due to the obvious connundrum of users AND content creators still using Older poser tech and wanting Backward compatibility for eternity ,not to mention That P11 Users can now use That Elusive ,magical, overrated unicorn Called the genesis 3 Female.

Ah, face it wolf... that's the same thing you say about the Poser art community. No? You've already stated your disdain for the term artist but it's not as if you're actually working in some rarified theoretical place above reproach or contradiction. You've been working on a short cg film for years...

About Galactus.

Try to keep things in perspective and not bizarrely fanatical. Huff Puff.

wolf359 posted at 7:45PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260813

@ Erogenesis you have made a well constructed, advanced poser figure for your personal use But in the larger context of Becoming a major replacement for V4/Challenger to Daz genesis(as many in this community are Clearly hoping) , I don’t personally Imagine such a scenario. This is due to the obvious connundrum of users AND content creators still using Older poser tech and wanting Backward compatibility for eternity ,not to mention That P11 Users can now use That Elusive ,magical, overrated unicorn Called the genesis 3 Female.

In some ways I might not be contending your views. In other, respective of the art that matters... may the best man win!

Against boredom even the gods contend in vain. Or something. Nap time!

EldritchCellar posted at 8:04PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260823

Against boredom even the gods contend in vain. Or something. Nap time!

sleep well...!!

EldritchCellar posted at 2:01PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260818

Ah, face it wolf... that's the same thing you say about the Poser art community. No? You've already stated your disdain for the term artist but it's not as if you're actually working in some rarified theoretical place above reproach or contradiction. You've been working on a short cg film for years...

About Galactus.

Try to keep things in perspective and not bizarrely fanatical. Huff Puff.

Well we all have our points of view like your obvious disdain for Premade assets and" Automation" and for those who use such "factory floor products" but there is a place in visual arts for us who do use such assets as well as those who nobly craft their models ......like you.

Oh and on the GALACTUS thing its a homemade fanfilm being cobbled in my spare time .

No big world premier planned ...no official release date Stop watching your little gotcha clock LOL!!!

Well we just finished a none stop 7 day job.no one kewn about the daylight savings time LOL . Any ways To answer Da Vinci final question "Tell me if anything was ever done" , No not even centuries latter. Humans give new meaning to redundant.

Don't know if CGI/SciFi/Magic can ever plateau ,but if we where borned in the 23rd century ,Ya !!!

LW,C4D,zBrush came with characters n a lot of other stuff. LW actually came with our solor system spaced apart n every thing.it was a cool ride ;)

G1 n Roxie where the first high end app user friendly characters .high end app's use pc 20,000 SubDed characters or game characters with maps .the 60,000 polycount character where made for app's that couldn't SubD.

most high end users still don't make characters a lot of cars but few characters. it's just faster easier to buy them. you can brows there galleries .cars n monsters n there's no way of knowing if there monster started from a cube or bubba.

I always thought they should have given ODF Max for making Antonia. Hell of a accomplishment. So is PE.

(Rouses from slumber, crawls out from beneath rock)

"but there is a place in visual arts for us who do use such assets as well as those who nobly craft their models ......like you.

Oh and on the GALACTUS thing its a homemade fanfilm being cobbled in my spare time .

No big world premier planned ...no official release date Stop watching your little gotcha clock LOL!!!"

Well it's a symbiotic relationship then wolf. I mean when I can manage to have a period of manic creativity I usually share some of my thingies with others. Some people like them, not sure out of that demographic who actually uses anything that I make. But, I can also understand the collector aspect of this hobby. I certainly don't have the ambition of Erogenesis or many other model makers or whatever. My traditional media stuff is the same way. I never set out to sell anything when I make it... most of the things I make that I'm most proud of seem to appear out of nowhere, with very little beginning to end planning along the way.

As far as your Galactus narrative goes, well if it's a labor of love then I can totally respect and understand that, actually more than I can understand the work-for-hire professional type thing that is tightly scheduled...

Wonder what happened to Patorak? I was looking forward to seeing where he was going with that...

erogenesis posted at 9:13AM Mon, 14 March 2016 - #4260756

wolf359 posted at 1:18PM Sun, 13 March 2016 - #4260251

This is the core reason why antonia FAILED this why Project E will ultimately FAIL and scarlet and Dawn etc etc etc..

Project E will not fail because I know one artist that is going to use her actively. Me. If nobody else wants to use her that's none of my business. Better yet, she has been entertaining people for well over a year in two popular free comics. That's what its about for me. I have comics to make, I will use project E, just like all those Maya and Max and Lightwave and C4D artists model and rig their own figure that will never hit the market. It would be cool if I could make a bit of pocket change with her, but I'm not entering this figure race so that I can start setting up yet another ridiculous tribe.

I am so glad you responded in this manner, for something to be a failure you also have to define what is success. For some the whole point in any new figure the aim is to give something a vendor can make money out of with as little effort as possible but that is a very narrow view. Others feel it must sell better than, and replace V4, a view I think is doomed to failure considering the world has moved on since V4 was launched.

At present I use Dawn mainly, I still use V4 but not as much as before. I do not see Dawn as a failure and I have great fun using the figure and, if it makes me happy, I define that as a success. I have followed the E project for some time and I know your initial motivation was to have a figure you could use but you were also prepared to release it to the wider community I can't see how that can fail except that it won't make vendors the type of money V4 did.

"Wonder what happened to Patorak? I was looking forward to seeing where he was going with that..." I'm still here, been lurking and listening. As for the figure, been edge looping and thinking about what RorrKonn said about different figures.

Being that my gallery get very few comments.Let me share ,very possible insane idea's I have.

If you want to make a realtime fantasy movie or comic or just a render. not about the sims or redundant pretty stuff.

Fantasy Games like ,darksiders ,diablo ,war craft.etc etc Have multiple characters and environments that fit.

So If I could go to the store n by fantasy characters n environments with a certain theme . low polycount character don't need killer textures or morphs & just a 1/2 way descent rig will do.

you can google darksiders ,diablo ,war craft.etc etc characters textured.to see what I'm rambling on about.

So in my spare time it's what I'm doing.environment first something along the lines of a fantasy hell apocalypse scifi monsters city something like rome all mixed together more or less. I'm staying away from nature stuff .and then I'll make the low polycount characters.

I'm not going for realism ,I'm going for cool.

I'll make the stuff usable for any app that has a store.will they download or buy any of it ? who knows but at least I'll have some cool meshes ;)

We use to have 2 or 3 threads at a time with interesting conversations. Now where having difficulties with one ,sad.

° °

EldritchCellar posted at 12:15AM Thu, 17 March 2016 - #4260810

Good question. Depends if it's using iconography or emulation of real world physics as its mode of communication. In the Poserverse the art is striving for greater realism. The highest praise seems to be "that looks real!" So I guess the question should be "is indistinguishable enough or transcendence". You don't hear "thats unreal" or naive or primitive in the praise lexicon too often herebouts. Generally speaking. Anyway, you're preaching to the choir here. I like and make digital art. Too.

There sure is a hell of alot of stunning talent out there, it's certainly not a village anymore ... Wish I could be around for another hundred years to see where it all goes. Eventually the tech is going to have to plateau, just as everything does more or less. I think that's when things will start to get really interesting.

I forgot to respond to this. Although realism is something I do strive for when I have time, its not my central ambition here. For me its about entertainment and you don't need hyper-realistic renders for that per se. Herge managed to entertain millions with his simple Ligne Claire style, so I think simple P10 renders should be able to do the same. In the end its about the context and the story of the picture that really matters, and that is something no store can sell. Which brings me to this plateau you're talking about. If you're speaking of plateaus, I think Poser/DS art is going to hit that plateau very soon, where people will cease to be amazed by 3D renders by default, and will get bored of the same old render of Genesis or Vicky that and yet another piece of catalog art slapped together fresh from the store. In fact it might already be happening because me and my friends (also DS users) are feeling the pressure from fans, and its much more about style, composition, or really clever 3D trickery, tweaking and / or actual 3D modelling. It will be more about actual thought-out entertainment, than about the senseless CGI speed record from store release to first customer render, or the so-manyeth dull test render of this or that trending renderer. Test renders can also be done in style, so that you don't bore your fans to death:

project e.mesh4, HDRI, shadowcatch ground, Firefly.

hornet3d posted at 1:19AM Thu, 17 March 2016 - #4260945

I am so glad you responded in this manner, for something to be a failure you also have to define what is success. For some the whole point in any new figure the aim is to give something a vendor can make money out of with as little effort as possible but that is a very narrow view. Others feel it must sell better than, and replace V4, a view I think is doomed to failure considering the world has moved on since V4 was launched.

Yes I have noticed this, that its sometimes more about the vendors than the artists. Of course a lot of artists are dependent on content made by vendors, and I do like helping out vendors, mostly also because I am my own best vendor. I also want to make it easy for me to make / convert clothes for her.

But yeah I've noticed about this figure circus is that some of these figures seem to be more about technical achievement, some CGI trend, or some vendor catwalk model, instead of being a actual tool to be actively used in a comic book, or movie environment. However great these figures are, I can tell they were made by people that never make comics or even just pinups (and the same applies to software design and some other CG products and props). The way the dials are sometimes set out, very impractical, or the limits and sensitivities, or just the aesthetics of the figure, the shape and bending, or even the feel of the figure responding to your commands in the view port. This might sound stupid but if you've never made a full-length comic with these characters, you won't know what I mean. With PE I'm basically remembering all my experiences with V4 and my older version of PE while making comics, looking at other figures like Dawn and Genesis, and basically trying to push the usability of this figure to a maximum... but my main guide throughout this whole process is my own plans for her. That's the only way i can guarentee that she'll be of any use.

hornet3d posted at 1:19AM Thu, 17 March 2016 - #4260945

At present I use Dawn mainly, I still use V4 but not as much as before. I do not see Dawn as a failure and I have great fun using the figure and, if it makes me happy, I define that as a success. I have followed the E project for some time and I know your initial motivation was to have a figure you could use but you were also prepared to release it to the wider community I can't see how that can fail except that it won't make vendors the type of money V4 did.

Yes, whatever works. I think people will be surprised after the release of PE, because I am completely going to focus on comics from then on. I might make a male figure, might... might... but I have never been a content vendor and never will be. I got into CG for comics, not politics or tribalism. I positively hate this stupid figure circus and I am definitely not doing it to become famous or get a piece of the pie. This is just me saying, bugger all those figures, I'm making my own... oh and I'll make her available if you want her lol. And don't forget to have fun because otherwise its just pointless.

"This is just me saying, bugger all those figures, I'm making my own... oh and I'll make her available if you want her lol. And don't forget to have fun because otherwise its just pointless." I'm glad to see the cowboy-cowgirl spirit is still alive.

Here is step 5. Stand your figure up straight, shoulders back and chin up. Then add the animation edgeloops and extract the ears and breasts.

patorak3d.

I've spent way way way to much time thinking on how to model characters 100% quads n good topology. one day I'm going to right a book about it.

1.My first characters I straight out model it 100% quads. I swear I always ended up with a a few Tri's and it's insanity to model that way.

2 .model low poly count 5000 with a few tri's then SubD one and it's polycount around 20.000 and 100% quads.I think this is a killer way to model characters.

3.just to challenge my self .I wanted a 100% quads polycount 5000.cause I've never seen one .before zBrush was famous I got Z1 just to see a million polycount sphere. I'll never argue I'm not insane.

This is still just a theory I play with from time to time cause I haven't finished yet.

So I broke the mesh in to peaces. cause it's a lot easier to model just a 100% quads part ear ,hand ,foot etc etc then the hole mesh.

and if you balance the mesh the top and bottom of the ear is a mirror n if you need to add topology. find a center line and mirror it second ear. not any line can be a center line.

model the .2 way is a killer fast way to model 100% quad characters.

erogenesis "have fun" :) agreed

"So I broke the mesh in to peaces. cause it's a lot easier to model just a 100% quads part ear ,hand ,foot etc etc then the hole mesh.

and if you balance the mesh the top and bottom of the ear is a mirror n if you need to add topology. find a center line and mirror it second ear. not any line can be a center line.

model the .2 way is a killer fast way to model 100% quad characters." 100% quads, awesome! I'll give it a try. Do you have a step by step diagram on your ears?

patorak3d .

The balance ear theory to straight out model a 100% quads character .Is just a unproven theory.I have not proven it works.it might not even work. and even if it does work on a simple character. The more complicated the mesh the more difficult it will be.It would be imposable with Chrome. Da Vinci IQ is100 times greater then mine but he's still limited buy quad n tri rules.

best advice I can give. ignore the balance ear theory.

and

Just model a low poly count character ,polycount around 5000 with a few tri's in it.

Then SubD once and it's polycount will be around 20.000 and it will be 100% quads.

I think this is a killer fast way to model 100% quad characters.

there topology suxs but you get the idea. Just make better topology then me ;)

New tech stuff zBrush n MudBox maybe 3DCoat or some other app's.

Have remesher that maybe could convert a mixed quad n tri mesh to 100% quads.

but last I looked it wasn't good enough for humans for me. maybe I didn't look good enough or maybe one day it will be.

RorrKonn, you're topology is awesome. I do have the figure down to 4 tri's. 2352 polys and still edgelooping.

"But yeah I've noticed about this figure circus is that some of these figures seem to be more about technical achievement, some CGI trend, or some vendor catwalk model, instead of being a actual tool to be actively used in a comic book, or movie environment."

Agree completely, But like with any other product, it is up to the potential buyer/user to research and determine if a specific figure will be usable for their specific purposes.

For Example as an animator the only thing that matters to me is that the figures rigging conforms to standard bone naming & joint rotational order conventions that will enable easy retargeting of human motion generated from outside sources. BVH, Daz Aniblok,poser Pz2 ,Natural Motion's Endorphin BVH etc).

Every poser/Daz figure from P4 "Dork" & "Posette" up to Mike& Vickie 1,2,3,4 to Genesis 1-2, Conforms to this standard and Character motion is essentially interchangable between them ,with some minor global adjustments of course.

"Antonia" had an exotic new "innovative" rigging that I imagine gave her better bending but made the figure useless for motion retargeting from other sources.

Cant speak about "Dawn" or "Scarlette" as I never tried them.

But the mighty Daz Genesis 3 has exotic new rigging and a new bone based face rig that may have improved the figures compatibility with Game engines. However I am not a Game coder and have no use for G3 as it no longer accepts motion from my various motion systems and the days of manually key framing every single movement by hand are long over and not even practical when doing deadline oriented $$client work$$ that requires Ragdoll physics.

G3 wasn't made for games out of the box .DAZ has morph3d.com for games ,different app n characters then ds n genesis.

RorrKonn posted at 5:07PM Sat, 19 March 2016 - #4261767

G3 wasn't made for games out of the box .DAZ has morph3d.com for games ,different app n characters then ds n genesis.

Well I hope it works out for those who have a need for it.

ah ,I don't know. I half to quit playing with every new toy and accomplish something ,even if it's wrong.

My latest disaster that will hit the market as soon as ,ah ,well ,hum ,it's just shaders on it. I still half to make the maps n textures. alt to be done by next Saturday give or take a day or two :)

Ok ... continuing with Poser ... Here is "Toxic Youth", a rough render of the new Pauline and Paul Teen figures. ...

Oddly enough Paul reminds me a bit of Harry Potter in this render. ...

erogenesis posted at 8:58AM Sat, 26 March 2016 - #4261415

I forgot to respond to this. Although realism is something I do strive for when I have time, its not my central ambition here. For me its about entertainment and you don't need hyper-realistic renders for that per se. Herge managed to entertain millions with his simple Ligne Claire style, so I think simple P10 renders should be able to do the same. In the end its about the context and the story of the picture that really matters, and that is something no store can sell. Which brings me to this plateau you're talking about. If you're speaking of plateaus, I think Poser/DS art is going to hit that plateau very soon, where people will cease to be amazed by 3D renders by default, and will get bored of the same old render of Genesis or Vicky that and yet another piece of catalog art slapped together fresh from the store. In fact it might already be happening because me and my friends (also DS users) are feeling the pressure from fans, and its much more about style, composition, or really clever 3D trickery, tweaking and / or actual 3D modelling. It will be more about actual thought-out entertainment, than about the senseless CGI speed record from store release to first customer render, or the so-manyeth dull test render of this or that trending renderer. Test renders can also be done in style, so that you don't bore your fans to death:

Glad you said it so I didn't have to ;-) I'm seeing diminishing returns in each new figure and a sameness to the various renders. I assume that, much like photography, once capturing reality is a given, artists will seek to add their own style to their images. You can view the professional galleries at Art Station or CG society to see the possibilities.