Richardphotos posted at 6:28PM Sun, 18 June 2017 - #4307780

I have been told by at least two very popular vendors that they are not making any money on poser stuff. my purchases are only a drop in the bucket. At least Seven still releases V4 products among a few others

There are a few people at least that do not shop here anymore. I used to spend $100 plus most months and that was all on Poser stuff so that is a loss to both renderosity and the vendors. I know I am not alone so all vendors are missing out to some degree. Now I am not suggesting that this is the sole reason that vendors are not making money on poser stuff but it probably does make it more difficult. I suspect the present trend will continue meaning Poser users will either go else where or start making their own content and when they have the skills they could start buying less of content for other programs. Just one possible future.

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

there has been many months that I exceeded $100 in purchases, but slowed down because of lack of products that I want. many months I was shocked about just how much I did spend.

Renderosity has always stood by their members every since I officially joined in 2003. maybe things will change for the better

I still support poser whenever possible. I just recently released a few Poser only Dynamic packs as well as a conforming outfit for V4.

I just purchased 3 items from Kaleya including her newest product. I never have issues with your products

I am strictly a Poser girl and will continue to support Poser. In addition to texture expansion packs for clothing and props, I have recently started creating clothing sets.

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vendor/JudibugDesigns

Richardphotos posted at 7:26PM Sun, 18 June 2017 - #4307879

I just purchased 3 items from Kaleya including her newest product. I never have issues with your products

I am really happy to hear that :)

Everything in my shop with maybe one or two exceptions work in Poser. Primarily characters and a few clothing and hair items, but definitely have ya covered in the tiniest bit. :-)

Facebook / Twitter / Instagram / DeviantArt

galaxiefilm posted at 10:00AM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4307655

If it wasn't for Poser, DAZ would never have come into existence.

You are right!! I say the same thing all of the time to those Poser haters on DAZ. DAZ would be out of business if it wasn't for Poser and the DAZ fans don't seem to get it. I have even seen posts in their forums where people get downright nasty toward Poser users and wish we would go away. Where were they when DAZ Studio came with a price tag?

I too am seeing a shift from Poser items to mostly DAZ Studio/Genesis 3. To me it seems many vendors are looking to get on the DAZ wagon or perhaps Renderosity will be going the same route as Runtime DNA. As I have said over on DAZ months ago, they killed the competition and hardly create any new Poser models.

There is only a small percentage of vendors who still create for Poser. Maybe five percent if that. There is also no way to filter Poser models on the DAZ3D website which speaks volumes to me. They don't want Poser users. What they have available is mostly from RDNA and it is old stuff from ten years ago that I already have.

Poser 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Pro 2014, 11, 11 Pro

For what I've heard, DAZ Studio was created because the future of Poser became uncertain at some point. DAZ was only selling Poser content at that time and in order to survive they had to have an alternative in case Poser would cease to exist. Besides, it's not DAZ that has made Poser less popular, they have offered full support to SM for their later figures, but SM chose not to support them which probably is one of the main reasons for why many have shifted to DAZ Studio.

Personally I use both, and both have their their advantages and disadvantages.

Richardphotos posted at 10:33AM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4307780

I have been told by at least two very popular vendors that they are not making any money on poser stuff. my purchases are only a drop in the bucket. At least Seven still releases V4 products among a few others

That sounds like the same story DAZ vendors have been telling about M4 products not selling. Clothing items for Genesis males seem to sell pretty well or they wouldn't keep making them. Either Poser users have given up or the vendors are not making quality products for Poser. That could be the reason why their items are not selling. When is the last time any vendor created something of quality for M4. There are zillions of items for V4, but only one in a thousand items for M4 compared to Vicky.

Nothing sells if it isn't made or if it's poorly constructed.

Poser 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Pro 2014, 11, 11 Pro

taoz posted at 11:13AM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308213

For what I've heard, DAZ Studio was created because the future of Poser became uncertain at some point. DAZ was only selling Poser content at that time and in order to survive they had to have an alternative in case Poser would cease to exist. Besides, it's not DAZ that has made Poser less popular, they have offered full support to SM for their later figures, but SM chose not to support them which probably is one of the main reasons for why many have shifted to DAZ Studio.

Personally I use both, and both have their their advantages and disadvantages.

We can blame Smith-Micro too. I'm no fan of them either. Their products are overpriced and I seriously doubt I will be upgrading Poser ever again. I've been using it and upgrading since Version 2. I am still using Poser Pro 2014 because I hate Poser 11 even though I purchased both flavors of it (Standard and Pro). Some of Poser 11's improvements get a thumbs down from me.

Poser also passed down to a number of different companies so I can see why its future was shaky. I lost count of the company names (Fractal Design, MetaCreations, etc.). Corel even bought one of the programs from MetaCreations then never released it under their own name. I forget the name of it, but I still have it and it was a total waste of $500.

If DAZ Studio wasn't free it wouldn't even be popular and nobody would be creating models for it. Free speaks loud and clear. Somebody at DAZ was smart when they came up with the idea of giving it away to sell more of their products. If SM had done the same we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Poser 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Pro 2014, 11, 11 Pro

I am not knocking Daz or the vendors but I do believe that Daz appeals, in a large part, to artists that want the latest and greatest. Very few buying the latest figure from Daz is doing so without knowing that it will be replaced in around year and accepts that the company gives no guarantee of backward compatibility when the new figure is launched. With this as a marketing strategy you really can't blame vendors for following the money. Yes there will always be some that create for other softwares and are happy that the potential profits will be limited.

Other artist are happy to stick with a figure that is over ten years old or work with their favorite piece of software and use a modern figure such as Dawn. As this leaves open the option of using V4 content that many have already purchased so it is not surprising their spending may well be much lower that the group above.

Of course this is a very simplistic look customer grouping but I think it does have some bearing on the present situation. It is up to the artist to decide which route they wish to take, be it one of the above or a route very different.

I have the Hivewire figures and I'm not too impressed with either Dawn or Dusk. The clothing line is limited and if I can't use M4/V4 clothing on them then there's no point in investing more into another soon-to-be obsolete figure. Besides, just like V4, most of the content is made for the Dawn.

I don't find either Dawn or Dusk attractive or authentic-looking figures. Especially Dusk who has a weird face. He looks like a Ken doll that's been run over a few times. And they wonder why things don't sell. Most male items are made to not sell.

Poser 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Pro 2014, 11, 11 Pro

whbos posted at 2:49PM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308301

I have the Hivewire figures and I'm not too impressed with either Dawn or Dusk. The clothing line is limited and if I can't use M4/V4 clothing on them then there's no point in investing more into another soon-to-be obsolete figure. Besides, just like V4, most of the content is made for the Dawn.

I don't find either Dawn or Dusk attractive or authentic-looking figures. Especially Dusk who has a weird face. He looks like a Ken doll that's been run over a few times. And they wonder why things don't sell. Most male items are made to not sell.

It is up to each user to use the figures they want and I am certainly not trying to put Dawn above any other, just counter the view expressed elsewhere that Dawn does not work in Poser, she does. I do tend to use M4 over Dusk but again that is a personal choice. While new content favors Dawn instead of Dusk I think that is par for the course for any male/female figure combination. Dawn can use all of the V4 content I have and that is a vast wardrobe. Yes it has to be converted but that takes less time than it does to purchase another outfit from a marketplace such as Rendo.

As to "another soon to be obsolete figure" you clearly have information that I am not party to.

I didn't know we could convert V4/M4 clothing for Dawn/Dusk. Is this done automatically or is there a python script or external program that does it? I probably wouldn't use it anyway since I rarely use either of those figures.

Past history with any model shows they eventually become obsolete as in not supported or seldom supported. I don't see a lot of clothing being made for Dusk, but nearly every male figure has gone that route. I would say M4 is obsolete because hardly anybody ever created clothing for him and still don't. There are only a few vendors who do create for M4, but not nearly as often as they do for V4.

I don't buy the old line male items don't sell. It's just an excuse or the vendor does not have the talent to create anything worth buying. Genesis male figures have a lot of clothing available. If they didn't sell then why are they still creating them?

Poser 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Pro 2014, 11, 11 Pro

whbos posted at 7:48PM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308314

I didn't know we could convert V4/M4 clothing for Dawn/Dusk. Is this done automatically or is there a python script or external program that does it? I probably wouldn't use it anyway since I rarely use either of those figures.

Past history with any model shows they eventually become obsolete as in not supported or seldom supported. I don't see a lot of clothing being made for Dusk, but nearly every male figure has gone that route. I would say M4 is obsolete because hardly anybody ever created clothing for him and still don't. There are only a few vendors who do create for M4, but not nearly as often as they do for V4.

I don't buy the old line male items don't sell. It's just an excuse or the vendor does not have the talent to create anything worth buying. Genesis male figures have a lot of clothing available. If they didn't sell then why are they still creating them?

Well there are the usual choices for conversions such as Wardrobe Wizard and CrossDresser, if you have Poser Pro 2014 there is also Dawn FitRoom Helpers from Lyrra which is what I tend to use. All three methods work well, some better than others but that is very dependent on which clothing item is being converted. Some deed a slight tweak in the region of the abdomen and also the neck it the clothing has a high neck line. I think this is due to the fact the Dawn has a neck 1 and 2 and an abdomen 1 and 2. Once posed it is just a case of lining up the two parts where this is the issue. I have less information on conversion for Dusk because I still tend to use M4 for many of my renders. When I do use Dusk i tend to use clothes made for Dusk, but I agree there is not much available.

A couple of other points, I was surprised when I starting using Dawn just how many of my newer items that I had purchased for V4 already a Dawn variant so no conversion was needed. Also Lully has a range of dynamic clothing for Dawn which is invaluable to all those who complain there is only slut wear available for any given figure.

For example - Left - Dynamic Dress for Dawn and Spartan Ops for V4 converted.

Dynam - Spartan Ops Comb .jpg

I can't buy what I can't use, just a reminder to the content makers. And I've no reason to buy a Rendo membership if there's nothing I can use here. :3 Hell, I'm willing to buy just an obj of many clothing products, because then I could at least make them dynamic, or objs of scenes because I can import them. And thank you, sincerely, to the people making Poser content.

hornet3d posted at 3:34PM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308243

I am not knocking Daz or the vendors but I do believe that Daz appeals, in a large part, to artists that want the latest and greatest. Very few buying the latest figure from Daz is doing so without knowing that it will be replaced in around year [snip]

2 years actually. Except for the generation 4s who hung around longer because Poser wasn't updating adequately or at all.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

3-DArena posted at 12:39PM Sat, 24 June 2017 - #4308335

hornet3d posted at 3:34PM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308243

I am not knocking Daz or the vendors but I do believe that Daz appeals, in a large part, to artists that want the latest and greatest. Very few buying the latest figure from Daz is doing so without knowing that it will be replaced in around year [snip]

2 years actually. Except for the generation 4s who hung around longer because Poser wasn't updating adequately or at all.

Thank you for the correction, I have to admit that I haven't followed the Genesis revolution that closely and, being the age that I am, time seems to move more quickly every year.

I purchase new V4 products that I find appealing and have many SSS mats so I simply change the textures on the very old V4 products and clothing as well.

I use Poser, every version since Poser 4 Pro because I enjoy Poser and will continue to enjoy

whbos posted at 1:06AM Sat, 05 August 2017 - #4308205

galaxiefilm posted at 10:00AM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4307655

If it wasn't for Poser, DAZ would never have come into existence.

You are right!! I say the same thing all of the time to those Poser haters on DAZ. DAZ would be out of business if it wasn't for Poser and the DAZ fans don't seem to get it. I have even seen posts in their forums where people get downright nasty toward Poser users and wish we would go away. Where were they when DAZ Studio came with a price tag?

I too am seeing a shift from Poser items to mostly DAZ Studio/Genesis 3. To me it seems many vendors are looking to get on the DAZ wagon or perhaps Renderosity will be going the same route as Runtime DNA. As I have said over on DAZ months ago, they killed the competition and hardly create any new Poser models.

There is only a small percentage of vendors who still create for Poser. Maybe five percent if that. There is also no way to filter Poser models on the DAZ3D website which speaks volumes to me. They don't want Poser users. What they have available is mostly from RDNA and it is old stuff from ten years ago that I already have.

I do not know why you think that Daz Users hate Poser Users, everyone is using the program they feel most comfortable with and that is it. I remember YEARS of us Daz users looking for Daz products. Just the same as it now seems with Poser Users looking for Poser content.

We are all Artist, no program creates art on the push of a button, WE, the Artists do it, and it does not matter which program has been used. Vendors want to make money, just like everyone else does in their job. If Daz provides more money than that is what you will find in the Marketplaces. That is nothing to do with hating. As for Daz Users being downright nasty toward Poser Users... that is the same the other way round in some forums. I find it childish and silly. We are all grown up and should enjoy our Art and be happy.

So please do not blame Vendors for wanting to earn money. For a lot of those Vendors, it is a full-time job and they pay their bills so need to create for what is popular, and that seems to be Daz Studio Content. Kind regards Petra

I told Daz before (2-3 years ago) that if it was not for Poser they would not be in business. the poser users made them a wealthy company and enabled them to pay someone to design competing software.

I do admit that daz has kept me using Poser with the advent of Victoria 4.

I sincerely hope that bondware does not go the route of rdna and other providers of content.

if it was to happen(shudders) I would have to reply on my huge runtime to keep me doing renders and where I would post would be up in question.

of course I took advantage of the huge discount on rdna when they sold out to daz. I still yet have to use some of the content

whbos posted at 12:22PM Sun, 06 August 2017 - #4308301

I have the Hivewire figures and I'm not too impressed with either Dawn or Dusk. The clothing line is limited and if I can't use M4/V4 clothing on them then there's no point in investing more into another soon-to-be obsolete figure. Besides, just like V4, most of the content is made for the Dawn.

I don't find either Dawn or Dusk attractive or authentic-looking figures. Especially Dusk who has a weird face. He looks like a Ken doll that's been run over a few times. And they wonder why things don't sell. Most male items are made to not sell.

I have very recently come to like the DAWN character.

The main thing that I like is an extra Abdomen bone that was designed into the character (there is also an extra neck bone, but I'm not sure what this does for me). The extra abdomen bone allows me to extend or shorten the character in a more realistic manner. With the Victoria (4) products you can scale them but the torso has limited "y" (height) manipulation properties whereas in real people torso dimension and leg dimension carry a lot of weight in how two people look side by side.

The thing I don't like about the DAWN base character is that the face is relatively harsh. We need one or two vendors to give the character some better control of facial features. Also I would like a morph that make both eyes move together, as was done in V4++. In 99% of the time eyes point together, yet in 99% of the characters the only conntrol we have of eyes is one at a time and it is, well, time consuming.

While there is limited support for DAWN, there is even less for her male counterpart.

Also I was just looking for a character put out for "Pauline" by tempesta 3d Called "Posy." It was a fairly recent creation yet I cannot find it anywhere. I'm guessing because it was RDNA Daz my have just quietly dropped it.

Smith Micro was spitting out characters but never really putting support behind them. Pauline is an exapmle of a good character thrown to the wolves. I am convinced Smith Micro doesn't understand this space or the people in it. They treat POSER like boxed software. They even have what I call a download tax so rather than keep your purchases on file they expire, unless you pay extra for them t o keep you on file for two years. Most venomous of all, however is the 'kill' switch that says if you have a stand alone computer your Poser 2011 will die if you don't make a special effort to contact Smith Micro and get a code that helps keep it alive.

Eventually I expect there will be a universal mesh standard because not only will we use it here, but I can see it being used to design, fit and sell real clothing for real people who are body scanned, as well as in the medical profession. I don't know, maybe that will take a real group or committee that we don't have yet, something like what exists for other software, transmission, and electronic (Ieee) and mechanical (asme) standards.

Richardphotos posted at 7:01PM Sun, 06 August 2017 - #4311452

I told Daz before (2-3 years ago) that if it was not for Poser they would not be in business. the poser users made them a wealthy company and enabled them to pay someone to design competing software.

I do admit that daz has kept me using Poser with the advent of Victoria 4.

I sincerely hope that bondware does not go the route of rdna and other providers of content.

if it was to happen(shudders) I would have to reply on my huge runtime to keep me doing renders and where I would post would be up in question.

of course I took advantage of the huge discount on rdna when they sold out to daz. I still yet have to use some of the content

If, when, why, what... it does not really matter. Maybe Poser started it off but Daz took it a whole lot further in their development of the still FREE software Daz3d. Poser is like a Dinosaur and will get * extinct * if they do not start putting more effort in their software, adding new and exciting things and most of all, usable figures that do not get only 2 months of content creation by Vendors but stay interesting like V4.2 and the Genesis line. Smith Micro had their chance to go hand in hand with Daz3d but I guess they do not really want to commit to it as they do not only sell Poser, where Daz3d is committed to stay exciting, develop and bring out characters that will always be exciting to work with. Sadly Poser got left behind, but that is the way this Industry works. I LOVED Poser a lot, but when Genesis came out and the ease of using Genesis I was sold on DazStudio.

If you love your Poser and your work with Poser than that is great, and I still see a lot of Vendors here at Renderosity that create for Poser and V4.2.

I remember when I first started with Daz Studio * before I gone Poser and later back Daz Studio * we had the same dilemma. No one was making things to use in Daz Studio, only a few things Studio came with and we had to convert skins of V3 to look better in Studio.

I know how it feels.

You can also say that Daz3D helped Poser when they came out with V4 because the figures that Smith Micro provided with their software have been bad.

3-d-c posted at 2:16PM Sun, 06 August 2017 - #4307691

I still do poser exclusive. .. so check out my store too ;) https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?uid=502620

I look for your stuff all the time. Not to short Kalea or renapd, or Karanta or any of the others. From each of you I have some of your work. Quality art, thank you.

Pretty much all Poser props can be used in DAZ, at least in the 3DLight renderer, it's a little more work using them in IRay. I generally will leave reviews specifying compatibility with DAZ because if an item can be used in both programs, it increases the available pool of potential buyers, and vendors here are going to make what sells.

Can't help you with the Human Figures, there is just too much going for the Genesis family to use any figures for Poser.

As far as any "debt" DAZ has towards Poser... Um. So what exactly do you expect a competing company to do for history?

Use whatever program you want, but unless vendors like to work for free, expect them to make content with the widest possible appeal.

I'm currently putting together a Poser vendor content directory. Hopefully, I'll be launching it soon, but just know that there is still plenty of Poser content out there and still plenty content for Poser being made. The problem is finding it because the brokers put their Genesis and Daz products out front and center, obscuring the Poser content. I don't shop much at DAZ any more because I was so certain that there were not that much Poser content there. I was wrong. In looking up the vendors I've found plenty of Poser content both old and new at all the stores, including Renderosity. My directory will identify those vendors who make or have made Poser content and point you to their stuff. Hang in there folks. Help is on the way.

EClark1849 posted at 7:40PM Wed, 30 August 2017 - #4313168

I'm currently putting together a Poser vendor content directory. Hopefully, I'll be launching it soon, but just know that there is still plenty of Poser content out there and still plenty content for Poser being made. The problem is finding it because the brokers put their Genesis and Daz products out front and center, obscuring the Poser content. I don't shop much at DAZ any more because I was so certain that there were not that much Poser content there. I was wrong. In looking up the vendors I've found plenty of Poser content both old and new at all the stores, including Renderosity. My directory will identify those vendors who make or have made Poser content and point you to their stuff. Hang in there folks. Help is on the way.

Good to hear. Hope it works out.

WILL_I_AM posted at 6:02AM Sat, 02 September 2017 - #4313283

EClark1849 posted at 7:40PM Wed, 30 August 2017 - #4313168

I'm currently putting together a Poser vendor content directory. Hopefully, I'll be launching it soon, but just know that there is still plenty of Poser content out there and still plenty content for Poser being made. The problem is finding it because the brokers put their Genesis and Daz products out front and center, obscuring the Poser content. I don't shop much at DAZ any more because I was so certain that there were not that much Poser content there. I was wrong. In looking up the vendors I've found plenty of Poser content both old and new at all the stores, including Renderosity. My directory will identify those vendors who make or have made Poser content and point you to their stuff. Hang in there folks. Help is on the way.

Good to hear. Hope it works out.

I currently have a list of well over 200 names of vendors who make or have made content for Poser. And if you're a member of the SM forum you can read more about the directory there. Just look for the thread, "list of Poser Vendors".

[Raindroptheelf]Maybe Poser started it off but Daz took it a whole lot further in their development of the still FREE software Daz3d.[/quote]

FREE (not counting the numerous add-ons to get it's functionality near what Poser has out of the box... And D|S wasn't always free.

Smith Micro had their chance to go hand in hand with Daz3d but I guess they do not really want to commit to it as they do not only sell Poser...

Not quite. The Poser Team decided not to integrate Genesis into Poser for the same reason Daz Studio exists: They didn't want to be tied to the whims, mercy, and fate of another company's program.

If they had accepted, then every time D|S and Genesis got an "under-the-hood" update, then the Poser Team would have had to divert people from working on other Poser updates, or the next version of Poser, in order to put out a patch for Poser that incorporated those updates; because not doing so would tick people off, though with a side-effect of delaying the release of the next proper Poser update/version. And given that Poser generally has a (somewhat) set release schedule, with program updates only when they get enough fixes done, and D|S seems to have a "whenever Daz3d feels like it" update schedule, there would be conflicts between updating. Not to mention whether Daz would give the Poser team enough time to implement their own update before releasing a D|S one.

where Daz3d is committed to stay exciting, develop and bring out characters that will always be exciting to work with.

I disagree, Daz is all about recycling content. Just look at how many different versions of a "Morphing Fantasy Dress" there are (not counting texture sets) in the Daz store.

The difference then was that, aside from materials, the majority of Poser content loads, and works, as is inside D|S. From what I've heard, even with the DSON importer, the same cannot be said for moving D|S content to Poser. So it wasn't a big deal if people weren't making D|S-specific content, as the people using D|S could still use it with some tweaking.

But those people making D|S-specific content aren't making anything that Poser users can use properly. And many won't bother with DSON, meaning that they can't use it at all; or they have to put far more effort into getting it to work in Poser (and sometimes jumping through hoops is needed even with the DSON importer).

________________________________________________________________

If you're joking that's just cruel, but if you're being sarcastic, that's even worse.

modus0 posted at 1:48AM Fri, 15 September 2017 - #4314142

[Raindroptheelf]Maybe Poser started it off but Daz took it a whole lot further in their development of the still FREE software Daz3d.[/quote]

FREE (not counting the numerous add-ons to get it's functionality near what Poser has out of the box... And D|S wasn't always free.

Smith Micro had their chance to go hand in hand with Daz3d but I guess they do not really want to commit to it as they do not only sell Poser...

Not quite. The Poser Team decided not to integrate Genesis into Poser for the same reason Daz Studio exists: They didn't want to be tied to the whims, mercy, and fate of another company's program.

If they had accepted, then every time D|S and Genesis got an "under-the-hood" update, then the Poser Team would have had to divert people from working on other Poser updates, or the next version of Poser, in order to put out a patch for Poser that incorporated those updates; because not doing so would tick people off, though with a side-effect of delaying the release of the next proper Poser update/version. And given that Poser generally has a (somewhat) set release schedule, with program updates only when they get enough fixes done, and D|S seems to have a "whenever Daz3d feels like it" update schedule, there would be conflicts between updating. Not to mention whether Daz would give the Poser team enough time to implement their own update before releasing a D|S one.

where Daz3d is committed to stay exciting, develop and bring out characters that will always be exciting to work with.

I disagree, Daz is all about recycling content. Just look at how many different versions of a "Morphing Fantasy Dress" there are (not counting texture sets) in the Daz store.

I remember when I first started with Daz Studio * before I gone Poser and later back Daz Studio * we had the same dilemma. No one was making things to use in Daz Studio, only a few things Studio came with and we had to convert skins of V3 to look better in Studio.

The difference then was that, aside from materials, the majority of Poser content loads, and works, as is inside D|S. From what I've heard, even with the DSON importer, the same cannot be said for moving D|S content to Poser. So it wasn't a big deal if people weren't making D|S-specific content, as the people using D|S could still use it with some tweaking.

But those people making D|S-specific content aren't making anything that Poser users can use properly. And many won't bother with DSON, meaning that they can't use it at all; or they have to put far more effort into getting it to work in Poser (and sometimes jumping through hoops is needed even with the DSON importer).

I just have to agree to disagree.

Most of my Poser content (V4 items) went into clearance, once in clearance it got deleted for not getting any sales.

Amaranth3D

Well, for a company whose free software has been downloaded millions of times (according to DAZ anyway), they sure seem to be on somewhat shaky financial ground these days — that comes from a couple of merchants to vend there and find DAZ's support... uhm... less than stellar unless you're a top-tier supplier like Stonemason.

As for Poser, Poser users got all POd because Dawn wasnt some hot-yo-mama right out of the box like Vicky. When PP11 was released, that was all the users cared about it — how sexy or not Dawn was. Everything else upgraded in the program didnt matter; it was all about how much usable T&A S/M had provided. True, S/M's flagship characters havent been the best (although the Poser9 guy wasnt too bad, all things considered), but the software itself is lightyears beyond Studio, especially in lighting and animation. It was well worth the lousy 99 bucks I paid for an upgrade to PoserPro 11 last month. If you want more sexiness in your Poser characters, maybe write S/M and tell them? I did. They were appreciative of the feedback. If you're a modeler, maybe pitch them an idea on how to improve these characters?

FWIW. my go-to mesh these days is Kyle 15, whom I've made into a bit of hottie for a toon character. He got zero support from the vendors. ZERO. But thanks to Wardrobe Wizard, I have over 40 megs of stuff available for him. Some of it didnt work as well as I'd hoped, but hauling it into a 3D program and cleaning it up wasnt that difficult. Sometimes, guys, ya just gotta be pro-active about this stuff.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

SeanMartin posted at 12:52PM Tue, 19 September 2017 - #4314437

Well, for a company whose free software has been downloaded millions of times (according to DAZ anyway), they sure seem to be on somewhat shaky financial ground these days — that comes from a couple of merchants to vend there and find DAZ's support... uhm... less than stellar unless you're a top-tier supplier like Stonemason.

As for Poser, Poser users got all POd because Dawn wasnt some hot-yo-mama right out of the box like Vicky. When PP11 was released, that was all the users cared about it — how sexy or not Dawn was. Everything else upgraded in the program didnt matter; it was all about how much usable T&A S/M had provided. True, S/M's flagship characters havent been the best (although the Poser9 guy wasnt too bad, all things considered), but the software itself is lightyears beyond Studio, especially in lighting and animation. It was well worth the lousy 99 bucks I paid for an upgrade to PoserPro 11 last month. If you want more sexiness in your Poser characters, maybe write S/M and tell them? I did. They were appreciative of the feedback. If you're a modeler, maybe pitch them an idea on how to improve these characters?

FWIW. my go-to mesh these days is Kyle 15, whom I've made into a bit of hottie for a toon character. He got zero support from the vendors. ZERO. But thanks to Wardrobe Wizard, I have over 40 megs of stuff available for him. Some of it didnt work as well as I'd hoped, but hauling it into a 3D program and cleaning it up wasnt that difficult. Sometimes, guys, ya just gotta be pro-active about this stuff.

Actually Sean, I don't remember hearing ONE person saying that V4 was a "hot-yo-mama right out of the box " figure. In fact, for the first few months or so all I heard was how sick everyone was of V4's purple underwear and that she was ugly in her default state. I never thought so personally, but what do I know. If they weren't complaining about one of those two points they were trying to get a V3 figure with a V4 head, so V3's clothes would fit V4.

That was V4. Dawn came out around the time of V12,718, if I remember right (It gets difficult, as they all blend together after a while). And you remember how much folks rhapsodized about her... well, until Vicky 12,719 was released anyway...

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

In response to the original poster's query: Where has all the Poser content gone? Find out here:

whbos posted at 8:58PM Thu, 05 October 2017 - #4308215

Richardphotos posted at 10:33AM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4307780

I have been told by at least two very popular vendors that they are not making any money on poser stuff. my purchases are only a drop in the bucket. At least Seven still releases V4 products among a few others

That sounds like the same story DAZ vendors have been telling about M4 products not selling. Clothing items for Genesis males seem to sell pretty well or they wouldn't keep making them. Either Poser users have given up or the vendors are not making quality products for Poser. That could be the reason why their items are not selling. When is the last time any vendor created something of quality for M4. There are zillions of items for V4, but only one in a thousand items for M4 compared to Vicky.

Nothing sells if it isn't made or if it's poorly constructed.

And maybe that is why the M4 products didn't sell well, including textures for the most part. There were only two or three vendors that made decent M4 textures and probably the same amount for properly constructed or clothing that had any imagination to it. It was very hard to find good stuff for M4 which is sad. As far as V4 things not selling, if they did make available what they made for the Genesis models their sales would have gone up. What they made even for Gen2 (which is usable in Poser) was always much more imaginative then what they made for V4. I think that some vendors just got lazy and churned out the same things over and over again.

We do have some really good vendors that still create for V4. Renapd, Karanta, Maddelirium and P3D-Art are four outstanding Vendors that still do Poser and V4 items.

"I think that some vendors just got lazy"

No, it's more like, Hey, bikini sets sell really well! I'll make one of those! And before long, the MP is glutted with 300 bikini sets, all of which are pretty much interchangeable — and as a result, unless someone is really into bikinis, I doubt many of them sold that well.

The M4 stuff? Yes, sad to say, but lots of dreck out there, stuff that doesnt come close to the attention to detail that folks pour into stuff for the ladies. For the women, you will see every curve followed with almost loving determination and obsession. But pants for Michael? (I mean, forget about getting anything for any other male mesh.) A couple of stovepipes and something at the top to connect them. It's incredibly frustrating to see a vendor that will do stuff for the women that is truly spectacular — but for the guys? Broken seams. Tiled textures. I've said in these fora a couple of times that maybe it's just time for both Poser and DAZ to just give up on male characters. So few people are that interested, so no one's really going to miss them that much when they're finally dead and gone.

And then we can get even more bikini sets!

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I'm grateful to everyone who supports Poser because I can use that stuff in Carrara 7Pro.

I recently got a new tower and finally used my upgrade to C8.5 Pro, so now I can use DUF format items and Genesis 1 & 2.

I wished Daz would spend more energy building their product line by pushing the existing tech to the limit BEFORE switching to a new character. V4 to this day, still has vendors that are making more and more realistic looking morphs for her (look at the Immortal Twins' Kim K). I look at Genesis 2 and think how long they could have built that platform out. They really didn't push it anywhere.

I get shouted down often when I voice that opinion.

Tsarlet, IMHO, you have to understand that all DAZ wants to do right now is just push content out the door. There have been rumours (and I will repeat: rumours) that they're not doing well as a company financially, so they need every sale they can get. They dont have time to develop the tech because they need the cash now.

I just find it odd myself that they're charging full ticket for stuff for character meshes you cant even get anymore. Why would anyone pay full price for Michael 3 clothing or Vicky 3 hair at this point? And yet DAZ thinks they will. Highly odd.

Oh well, back to looking through the Marketplace here and seeing if there's much beyond bikinis and lingerie and "hawt sexy stuff!". Not a whole lot, to be honest.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

SeanMartin posted at 9:06PM Tue, 07 November 2017 - #4317503

Tsarlet, IMHO, you have to understand that all DAZ wants to do right now is just push content out the door. There have been rumours (and I will repeat: rumours) that they're not doing well as a company financially, so they need every sale they can get. They dont have time to develop the tech because they need the cash now.

I just find it odd myself that they're charging full ticket for stuff for character meshes you cant even get anymore. Why would anyone pay full price for Michael 3 clothing or Vicky 3 hair at this point? And yet DAZ thinks they will. Highly odd.

Oh well, back to looking through the Marketplace here and seeing if there's much beyond bikinis and lingerie and "hawt sexy stuff!". Not a whole lot, to be honest.

I do not know how Daz is doing but what I know is that there are so many complaints everywhere that there is not enough Poser stuff anymore so they would be foolish NOT to push their Poser content.

Raindrop, the excuse they give on that is "No one tells our vendors what platform to work in". Uh huh, and I really buy that.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

SeanMartin posted at 6:34AM Wed, 08 November 2017 - #4317565

Raindrop, the excuse they give on that is "No one tells our vendors what platform to work in". Uh huh, and I really buy that.

Then once again, they don't. Please don't spread misinformation. It seems like when it comes to this part of the market, people forget that like there are things such as supply and demand that dictate what is produced. I make mostly male characters because I want to, not because I'm told to... and because i make them a certain way the quality and features behind them in addition to the platform to allow me to make male characters that I couldn't dream of with M4, I get return on my investment. Other vendors will make what they want and what sells as well; and that goes for any brokerage.

Male_M3dia posted at 12:48PM Wed, 08 November 2017 - #4317574

SeanMartin posted at 6:34AM Wed, 08 November 2017 - #4317565

Raindrop, the excuse they give on that is "No one tells our vendors what platform to work in". Uh huh, and I really buy that.

Then once again, they don't. Please don't spread misinformation. It seems like when it comes to this part of the market, people forget that like there are things such as supply and demand that dictate what is produced. I make mostly male characters because I want to, not because I'm told to... and because i make them a certain way the quality and features behind them in addition to the platform to allow me to make male characters that I couldn't dream of with M4, I get return on my investment. Other vendors will make what they want and what sells as well; and that goes for any brokerage.

Well said.

If it were a question of character meshes and clothing, where the two are now totally incompatible, I'd believe you. But when it comes down to some pretty simple tweaks to the textures for a prop with zero rigging? You're telling me that not one single merchant at DAZ, in the past four or five years, thought there was a market for any Poser materials for something that simple? Not one?

The whole supply-and-demand thing is a bit of a canard, sorry. It's like this place.The logic would seem to be: Men's stuff rarely sells because no one's interested in men's stuff because there isnt much out there because it doesnt sell — the prophesy can only self-fulfill so many times. If it's not out there, of course it isnt going to sell. But this is such a niche market with, according to one vendor who's been in this game for a really long time, a shrinking marketbase... so a vendor is going to say, "Well, I dont really need to make those additional sales that would come from providing this in both platforms"? Seriously?

Sorry, I really do not buy it. That makes zero business sense. Of course, we're also talking about a platform where backwards compatability has now also been brought into question — essentially telling the user base, "Sure, we know you dropped serious coin on all that stuff that worked in previous versions of Stdio, but, hey, we dont care! Start over, ya losers!", even as they wonder why people still make things for V4 and M4.

THere is just so much about this business model that boggles my mind.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

SeanMartin posted at 12:49PM Wed, 08 November 2017 - #4317565

Raindrop, the excuse they give on that is "No one tells our vendors what platform to work in". Uh huh, and I really buy that.

And how do you come by that information regarding Daz and how they are doing and what they tell their vendors what platform to work in? Demand and supply is the key word here and, if I was a vendor, I would create the items that make me money. Nothing wrong with that. It is a job. I think you would choose a job that makes you the most money too. Creating content is a job.

SeanMartin posted at 9:44AM Wed, 08 November 2017 - #4317577

If it were a question of character meshes and clothing, where the two are now totally incompatible, I'd believe you. But when it comes down to some pretty simple tweaks to the textures for a prop with zero rigging? You're telling me that not one single merchant at DAZ, in the past four or five years, thought there was a market for any Poser materials for something that simple? Not one?

Again, you're forgetting supply and demand... and figures drive everything else including props and scenes because those figures need places to be in and things to hold. But making props in DS is different than in poser since you don't have to strip out code in the pp2 file to get it to pass qa which is extra work. And that extra work did not translate to enough sales to make it worth vendors' while.. and that includes materials because yes, those vendors DID make exactly what you're trying to say they didn't years ago and the sales weren't worth the effort.

The whole supply-and-demand thing is a bit of a canard, sorry. It's like this place.The logic would seem to be: Men's stuff rarely sells because no one's interested in men's stuff because there isnt much out there because it doesnt sell — the prophesy can only self-fulfill so many times. If it's not out there, of course it isnt going to sell. But this is such a niche market with, according to one vendor who's been in this game for a really long time, a shrinking marketbase... so a vendor is going to say, "Well, I dont really need to make those additional sales that would come from providing this in both platforms"? Seriously?

It's not going to make sense if you insist on making it an emotional issue rather than a logical business decision. Male items are not going to sell as much as female items, but if you make good male items can get return on your investment.. but you have to settle for lower amounts of sales due to demand. Same with materials, if you're not selling enough to recoup the time for you to open (or even buy) Poser and make a bunch of material files then QA them, then they aren't going to be made. Again, won't make sense if you refuse to logically look at the effort it takes to do the work.

Sorry, I really do not buy it. That makes zero business sense. Of course, we're also talking about a platform where backwards compatability has now also been brought into question — essentially telling the user base, "Sure, we know you dropped serious coin on all that stuff that worked in previous versions of Stdio, but, hey, we dont care! Start over, ya losers!", even as they wonder why people still make things for V4 and M4.

It's not going to make business sense because quite frankly, you aren't in the business thus you don't know the process and time it takes to make these items. Not everyone can do this and even less can make a good living from it.. so choices have to be made. This is why these threads keep popping up as if someone's argument not based in fact would sway vendors to lose money. Vendors have expenses to pay for and a living to make. I have to pay a back a loan I had to take out to bury my mom, and that requires me to make choices about what I know will put money in my bank account, and those decisions comes from what my sales and experience tells me, not from someone that doesn't understand the process, but wants to dictate what vendors should be doing. So really, that's all you should need to understand from this, unless you're willing to try to sell products yourself and see how easy this isn't.

Also again, the platform does allow you to reuse products from Gen4, I've reused shirts, boots and undies from M4 and all the Genesis men. I'm also sad because I can't use my David 3 thong for my genesis men in Promos anymore because it shows too much butt cheek ;)

"so choices have to be made"

Yeah, more bikini sets and lingerie... wow. Some choice.

And no, dude, I'm not making it an "emotional issue". I"m looking at a business model where vendors are apparently saying, "Oh, I dont want the additional income!" As a publisher, I can just say, "Well, the paper version of this book is good enough!" and totally lose out on the sale that would come from the extra work needed to create a version for both the Nook and the Kindle. Yeah, it takes time to do it right — probably a day for a small book, as long as two weeks for a larger one — but it's worth having it out there. When a new version of Creative Suite comes out, yes, I have to weigh the pros and cons of upgrading, but I usually do, every other version, because sufficient tools have been introduced to make it worth the money. It's called a business expense, and it makes me a bit more versatile at what I can do for my clients. In that regard, I picked up Poser's latest pro version for ninety-nine bucks. That would be a pretty cheap business expense.

The backwards compatibility issue comes with files created in Studio 3 that can no longer be opened in 4.9 (or so I have read, please correct me if I"m in error on that). I dont know who made that bonehead decision, but there it is. And every time DAZ releases yet another hootchie-mama, I constantly read on these fora that nothing from previous hootchie-mamas will work on the new one. They seem to have corrected that, a bit, with this Gen 8 and Gen 2 talking to each other, but apparently 3 through 7 are SOL. I wonder how much people invested those. Sure, M3 stuff wont work on M4 stuff — but I have tools at my command that can bridge that gap and extend them even further. But DAZ reinvents its character tech every six months, so taking something you shelled out twenty bucks and some change for Genesis 4 will no longer work with Genesis 8 because the adaptors arent in place for it to do it properly.

So explain to me again what I dont "get" about this mysterious industry. Perhaps if we are all so enlightened, then the recurrence of threads like this, which appear to vex you so, will go away. But I'd also ask to remember: when DAZ first introduced Studio, it ran around to every fora out there and, with hug and a wide smile, said, "We wont abandon the Poser base that made us successful."

And yet they have done exactly that.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

SeanMartin posted at 5:41PM Wed, 08 November 2017 - #4317609

"so choices have to be made"

Yeah, more bikini sets and lingerie... wow. Some choice.

As long as people are willing to pay for it over a men's business suit, it will be made. That's supply and demand.

And no, dude, I'm not making it an "emotional issue". I"m looking at a business model where vendors are apparently saying, "Oh, I dont want the additional income!" As a publisher, I can just say, "Well, the paper version of this book is good enough!" and totally lose out on the sale that would come from the extra work needed to create a version for both the Nook and the Kindle. Yeah, it takes time to do it right — probably a day for a small book, as long as two weeks for a larger one — but it's worth having it out there. When a new version of Creative Suite comes out, yes, I have to weigh the pros and cons of upgrading, but I usually do, every other version, because sufficient tools have been introduced to make it worth the money. It's called a business expense, and it makes me a bit more versatile at what I can do for my clients. In that regard, I picked up Poser's latest pro version for ninety-nine bucks. That would be a pretty cheap business expense.

It's not additional income if it costs more than not doing it. Working an extra 2 hours every day doesn't mean much if you're not getting paid for it, but the boss sure appreciates it. That's in essence what you're trying to convey. Back when PAs were making items with Poser companion files, a lot of them found that the difference between making them and not making them was something like 10 copies.. yes, 10 copies. Very low return for hours of extra work to make materials look the same in different rendering engines. That's really the part you need to understand why it wasn't feasible businesswise to keep supporting something that didn't bring in a return on investment. A better use of that time is to simply make a new product at that point because the return is greater.

The backwards compatibility issue comes with files created in Studio 3 that can no longer be opened in 4.9 (or so I have read, please correct me if I"m in error on that). I dont know who made that bonehead decision, but there it is. And every time DAZ releases yet another hootchie-mama, I constantly read on these fora that nothing from previous hootchie-mamas will work on the new one. They seem to have corrected that, a bit, with this Gen 8 and Gen 2 talking to each other, but apparently 3 through 7 are SOL. I wonder how much people invested those. Sure, M3 stuff wont work on M4 stuff — but I have tools at my command that can bridge that gap and extend them even further. But DAZ reinvents its character tech every six months, so taking something you shelled out twenty bucks and some change for Genesis 4 will no longer work with Genesis 8 because the adaptors arent in place for it to do it properly.

And the update of python in Poser 8 or 9 broke a lot of plugins that were never updated by vendors. What exactly is your point? Also I think you're trying to make an assertion without understanding why it was done. You're speaking of scene files in DS3 which were never portable, were hard to make by content creators, and the way they were made you could easily have them corrupted. DS4, once the DSON spec was created had an offical standard for scenes and objects in it (since DSON is a scene specification language that DS never had) and the old clunky way of making scenes (which consisted of many .dso files) was depreciated. Before the old scene files were depreciated, you did have the chance to load older files and save them so they could be used in later versions of DS.. so if you waited 7 years to decide to update, yeah you can't load them, but then in the software industry this is nothing new. So it wasn't a bonehead decision, DAZ Studio actually can create a scene that you can load on another computer or just move to another location on your computer, which it didn't have in previous versions. That would actually be an improvement.

Again as far as compatibility, you're not out of luck upgrading genesis to G8.. you can do it for free by autofitting M4 to genesis, then manually autofit the same outfit to a different genesis figure until you get to Genesis 8. That's how I got my D3 thong onto Genesis 8 male. So you're asserting something that isn't true. Male items do very well with autofit, since most of items aren't high heels or dresses. That's how i get my hair, pants, shirts and undies upgraded...

So explain to me again what I dont "get" about this mysterious industry. Perhaps if we are all so enlightened, then the recurrence of threads like this, which appear to vex you so, will go away. But I'd also ask to remember: when DAZ first introduced Studio, it ran around to every fora out there and, with hug and a wide smile, said, "We wont abandon the Poser base that made us successful."

And yet they have done exactly that.

This is beating the dead horse because they never said they would never abandon poser users. They said they will support poser, but since they don't make the majority of their products they could never make eternal promises and force vendors to make products for any particular software. Besides, even if they put out a single product a month that had could be used in poser, that would be support from them; they never promised to have page upon page of poser products for people to not buy or wishlist. The bottom line is, you use the software that you're comfortable with and you live with the things that choice offers. We're seven years later into this argument where DAZ offered the tech to SM and they didn't want it for the many reasons that's been debated ad nauseum. SM is ultimately responsible for your content needs, so rather than complain and worry about DAZ3D is doing, that focus needs to go to SM. If they can't provide what you need, then you need to withhold your dollars from them and take them to task until they give you what you need. It seems like people are harder on the company that didn't make their software than the one that did, and I feel that's why you're not getting what you need. A competitor ultimately doesn't owe you a thing. Continuously badmouthing a competing company will get you no closer to getting the content you need, besides this type of app war discussion is against this site's TOS anyway.

Let's shift the convo back towards positively getting what you need without talking about other companies.

SeanMartin posted at 1:11AM Thu, 09 November 2017 - #4317609

"so choices have to be made"

Yeah, more bikini sets and lingerie... wow. Some choice.

And no, dude, I'm not making it an "emotional issue". I"m looking at a business model where vendors are apparently saying, "Oh, I dont want the additional income!" As a publisher, I can just say, "Well, the paper version of this book is good enough!" and totally lose out on the sale that would come from the extra work needed to create a version for both the Nook and the Kindle. Yeah, it takes time to do it right — probably a day for a small book, as long as two weeks for a larger one — but it's worth having it out there. When a new version of Creative Suite comes out, yes, I have to weigh the pros and cons of upgrading, but I usually do, every other version, because sufficient tools have been introduced to make it worth the money. It's called a business expense, and it makes me a bit more versatile at what I can do for my clients. In that regard, I picked up Poser's latest pro version for ninety-nine bucks. That would be a pretty cheap business expense.

The backwards compatibility issue comes with files created in Studio 3 that can no longer be opened in 4.9 (or so I have read, please correct me if I"m in error on that). I dont know who made that bonehead decision, but there it is. And every time DAZ releases yet another hootchie-mama, I constantly read on these fora that nothing from previous hootchie-mamas will work on the new one. They seem to have corrected that, a bit, with this Gen 8 and Gen 2 talking to each other, but apparently 3 through 7 are SOL. I wonder how much people invested those. Sure, M3 stuff wont work on M4 stuff — but I have tools at my command that can bridge that gap and extend them even further. But DAZ reinvents its character tech every six months, so taking something you shelled out twenty bucks and some change for Genesis 4 will no longer work with Genesis 8 because the adaptors arent in place for it to do it properly.

So explain to me again what I dont "get" about this mysterious industry. Perhaps if we are all so enlightened, then the recurrence of threads like this, which appear to vex you so, will go away. But I'd also ask to remember: when DAZ first introduced Studio, it ran around to every fora out there and, with hug and a wide smile, said, "We wont abandon the Poser base that made us successful."

And yet they have done exactly that.

I am very sorry SeanMartin but all I read from you is that you do not want to see bikinis and lingerie and sexy girls, well, many like those products and that is why you see so many of them. If they would not sell the vendors would not create them. Is it DAZ3D fold that pose is way behind in technology by now? I really wonder what your gripe is, is it that you do not like Daz Studio, is it that you do not like Daz3d or is it that you do not find enough products that you like for poser. Every time you post it is about sexy female characters, bikinis and lingerie. I do not know what kind of images you create but I am sure there is plenty of other stuff iin the stores that are not the ones you so dislike.

Male_M3dia posted at 5:41AM Wed, 15 November 2017 - #4317621

And yet they have done exactly that.

This is beating the dead horse because they never said they would never abandon poser users.

Bull. They said exactly that. Wander back into the fora in the days of the first DAZ release, and you will find those exact words from them. They ran around to every forum out there and repeated it, almost relentlessly, because they knew, even then, that it was a possible PR disaster waiting to happen. For crying out loud, you dont tell the market that made you the company you are that you're no longer interested in their business. How idiotic would that be?

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Raindroptheelf posted at 5:45AM Wed, 15 November 2017 - #4317625

I am very sorry SeanMartin but all I read from you is that you do not want to see bikinis and lingerie and sexy girls, well, many like those products and that is why you see so many of them. If they would not sell the vendors would not create them.

Right. Tell me there's such a massive market for such a repetitive format, since so many of them find their way into clearance sometimes weeks after release. But then it comes back to the same circular logic, doesnt it. All people will create are images of "sexy" women, when all that's available for them to work with is "sexy women stuff". Some of you vendors cant even put a simple prop out there without adding a "sexy" broad, even if it doesnt make sense. Believe it or not, there are times when sex isnt helping your case any, especially when it looks so blatant.

And yeah, I get tired of it. Thanks to this kind of attitude, people have taken a software that could have been innovative on so many levels and reduced it to soft core porn disguised as "art". These days, the MP doesnt even pretend to be anything but T&A. That whole "the beauty of female form as celebrated in art blah blah blah" line is now completely out the window because it got edged out by a relentless parade of "sexy" this and "hot" that and "alluring" that over there. A Vegas hooker catalog couldnt do much better.

Well, congrats, Hope it works for you. But when the vendors are whining that sales are down, you'll forgive me if I look at all of you and shake my head. You guys created this monster, now you have to live with it. Good going.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

SeanMartin posted at 1:03PM Wed, 15 November 2017 - #4317989

Raindroptheelf posted at 5:45AM Wed, 15 November 2017 - #4317625

I am very sorry SeanMartin but all I read from you is that you do not want to see bikinis and lingerie and sexy girls, well, many like those products and that is why you see so many of them. If they would not sell the vendors would not create them.

Right. Tell me there's such a massive market for such a repetitive format, since so many of them find their way into clearance sometimes weeks after release. But then it comes back to the same circular logic, doesnt it. All people will create are images of "sexy" women, when all that's available for them to work with is "sexy women stuff". Some of you vendors cant even put a simple prop out there without adding a "sexy" broad, even if it doesnt make sense. Believe it or not, there are times when sex isnt helping your case any, especially when it looks so blatant.

And yeah, I get tired of it. Thanks to this kind of attitude, people have taken a software that could have been innovative on so many levels and reduced it to soft core porn disguised as "art". These days, the MP doesnt even pretend to be anything but T&A. That whole "the beauty of female form as celebrated in art blah blah blah" line is now completely out the window because it got edged out by a relentless parade of "sexy" this and "hot" that and "alluring" that over there. A Vegas hooker catalog couldnt do much better.

Well, congrats, Hope it works for you. But when the vendors are whining that sales are down, you'll forgive me if I look at all of you and shake my head. You guys created this monster, now you have to live with it. Good going.

You know SeanMartin, it is not worth my time to carry on with this discussion as you keep on saying the same things about your dislike reg. the products in the marketplace. Sorry it is not to your taste, but , even when I repeat myself, it is what is in demand and NO, we do not create images because there is nothing else for us to work with, no, we create images with the products that we like and that is why you see so many of those products in the MP. I am not saying anything anymore because it will go on and on and on with you not liking sexy ladies and outfits and us telling you that 3d Creators want to make money. Do not tell me you take a badly paid job over a well-paid job. Enough said I rest my case.

Male_M3dia posted at 10:54AM Wed, 15 November 2017 - #4317621

[snip] The bottom line is, you use the software that you're comfortable with and you live with the things that choice offers. We're seven years later into this argument where DAZ offered the tech to SM and they didn't want it for the many reasons that's been debated ad nauseum. SM is ultimately responsible for your content needs, so rather than complain and worry about DAZ3D is doing, that focus needs to go to SM. If they can't provide what you need, then you need to withhold your dollars from them and take them to task until they give you what you need. It seems like people are harder on the company that didn't make their software than the one that did, and I feel that's why you're not getting what you need. A competitor ultimately doesn't owe you a thing. Continuously badmouthing a competing company will get you no closer to getting the content you need, besides this type of app war discussion is against this site's TOS anyway.

Let's shift the convo back towards positively getting what you need without talking about other companies.

This right here is the true issue. If Poser users are not getting what they want for their software then the issue is with the software. Get SM to find out how to address the needs, they need to invest into the research and find a way to get that content created; i.e. buyouts, expanding their content into other stores to generate interest, commissioning, releasing or commissioning content for tutorials, resources etc. Except that they can't because quite frankly they killed the software when they refused to work with DAZ any longer. Getting rid of their entire Poser department says a lot about their view regarding the value & stability of Poser going forward and frankly you can't expect vendors to back a lame horse.

If people were actually purchasing Poser products as they used to, not just when they are on sale, clearance or marked extremely low, then the Poser market would have continued to thrive. But let's be realistic here, the most viable & accepted figure for Poser (used the most, supported the most) is still the DAZ created Victoria 4 and she was released early 2007. Once SM and DAZ stopped working together Poser began to die. It can't survive without DAZ content because they've never learned to create decent forward content for their software and have always relied on "the kindness of strangers" to do so.

SeanMartin posted at 1:03PM Wed, 15 November 2017 - #4317989

Raindroptheelf posted at 5:45AM Wed, 15 November 2017 - #4317625

I am very sorry SeanMartin but all I read from you is that you do not want to see bikinis and lingerie and sexy girls, well, many like those products and that is why you see so many of them. If they would not sell the vendors would not create them.

Right. Tell me there's such a massive market for such a repetitive format, since so many of them find their way into clearance sometimes weeks after release. But then it comes back to the same circular logic, doesnt it. All people will create are images of "sexy" women, when all that's available for them to work with is "sexy women stuff". Some of you vendors cant even put a simple prop out there without adding a "sexy" broad, even if it doesnt make sense. Believe it or not, there are times when sex isnt helping your case any, especially when it looks so blatant.

And yeah, I get tired of it. Thanks to this kind of attitude, people have taken a software that could have been innovative on so many levels and reduced it to soft core porn disguised as "art". These days, the MP doesnt even pretend to be anything but T&A. That whole "the beauty of female form as celebrated in art blah blah blah" line is now completely out the window because it got edged out by a relentless parade of "sexy" this and "hot" that and "alluring" that over there. A Vegas hooker catalog couldnt do much better.

Well, congrats, Hope it works for you. But when the vendors are whining that sales are down, you'll forgive me if I look at all of you and shake my head. You guys created this monster, now you have to live with it. Good going.

So much anger and aggression isn't going to alter anything. Nothing goes into clearance after a few weeks, that's an automated process that takes months per product not selling a single copy.

I'm not disagreeing that there is a lot of "sexy" content in the store. But like it or not it sells. If enough people actually cared as passionately as you do they would buy the other items, and there are plenty of items in the store that aren't lingerie or swimsuits. Lots of things that can even mix and match well to create some awesome looks.

As for sales being down, that has more to do with store policies than lack of interest and truth is that if sales are low on studio products they are abysmal on Poser ones. (yes I did release a poser product this year to test that).

You've been arguing that vendors should support Poser for 5 months in this thread now, at some point you have to decide how much time & energy you want to put into fussing over this and aggravating yourself no end, or you can make a choice, either; A. accept that you pretty much have everything already with over 10 years of product creation for the Generation 4 figures or B. you can learn a new software and move forward. In truth the responsibility for your software choice lies with you, lack of forward moving content lies with SM.

Of course there is an alternative, open your own Poser content only storefront and prove you're right.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

SeanMartin posted at 3:11AM Thu, 16 November 2017 - #4317988

Male_M3dia posted at 5:41AM Wed, 15 November 2017 - #4317621

And yet they have done exactly that.

This is beating the dead horse because they never said they would never abandon poser users.

Bull. They said exactly that. Wander back into the fora in the days of the first DAZ release, and you will find those exact words from them. They ran around to every forum out there and repeated it, almost relentlessly, because they knew, even then, that it was a possible PR disaster waiting to happen. For crying out loud, you dont tell the market that made you the company you are that you're no longer interested in their business. How idiotic would that be?

Again, this is beating a dead horse and this isn't how any reasonable company operates, especially with a management change. New management isn't beholden to any old policies or support anyway.

As 3D-Arena and I has said, you're responsible for your software choice, and SM is responsible for content needs. This "he said/she said" argument is unproductive when you're taking the wrong company to task for your needs. So you have three choices 1) Continue to use the software you want, but not have the content you need unless you take your complaints to that company, 2) Learn new software that will give you the content you want for the money you're willing to spend, or 3) learn to make content yourself. There isn't a choice to blame DAZ3D to force vendors into making poser stuff; DAZ doesn't force vendors to makes things so your suggestion would actually make them start and that isn't going to happen otherwise they would lose their vendors. I know I was done with M4 the second I could make a shorter or taller male with a custom body shape without pestering vendors to add custom fits to their clothing to accomodate that.

I think there may be a difference in Philosophies involved. DAZ gives away the software and supports it with content sales which is why they put so much importance on content: that's what pays for the whole thing. Smith Micro's view is that they sell you the software and YOU are responsible for creating the content. They aren't in the content business, they are in the software business. For better or worse. DAZ is much better at fostering a community that creates content because that is their business. It's a marketing issue, not a technology one.

As far as pretty girl vs other content, I spend plenty of money on other content. If you aren't seeing it, you aren't trying very hard. Either here or at DAZ

diogenese19348 posted at 1:36PM Thu, 16 November 2017 - #4318088

I think there may be a difference in Philosophies involved. DAZ gives away the software and supports it with content sales which is why they put so much importance on content: that's what pays for the whole thing. Smith Micro's view is that they sell you the software and YOU are responsible for creating the content. They aren't in the content business, they are in the software business. For better or worse. DAZ is much better at fostering a community that creates content because that is their business. It's a marketing issue, not a technology one.

As far as pretty girl vs other content, I spend plenty of money on other content. If you aren't seeing it, you aren't trying very hard. Either here or at DAZ

Part of the fallout between SM & DAZ was because SM wanted to have a cut of content sales. Part of that was through that exorbitant price to make v4 face room compatible. Part was through Content Paradise. Then they started cutting out brokerages from listing their catalogs on CP by raising their cut while offering nothing extra in return (they don't even test products).

It was felt that the company that owned Poser should have an interest in the content sold for it.

I don't hate Poser, it's my first love in 3D. But there are far fewer resources for me to learn to light and create for superfly correctly and the product I made for it this year might as well have been a freebie for the sales it had. Most (not all) of the Poser content I'm seeing looks like stuff from 10 years ago in quality and shading. That's due to the lack of resources (tutorials etc) for getting better results.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

diogenese19348 posted at 3:24PM Thu, 16 November 2017 - #4318088

Smith Micro's view is that they sell you the software and YOU are responsible for creating the content. They aren't in the content business, they are in the software business. For better or worse. DAZ is much better at fostering a community that creates content because that is their business. It's a marketing issue, not a technology one.

Seven years later, that excuse simply won't do. There's far too many threads here and other sites for that to accepted. Understand, that years ago SM did the very same thing that DAZ3D except they sold the software and relied on others to provide the content. This isn't something they couldn't do, they could... they just didn't because they had others doing if for them. Now that that resource is no longer there (or they won't leverage the tech so they can use new items), they need to either adjust the way they position the product or drop the price. With the financial health of the parent company, I'm not sure how much can be done to address content now; but what they and others can no longer do is blame a competitor for their woes.. we're seven years later into this discussion. What is the plan that SM needs to do, not DAZ? Most likely they'll need to overhaul the software to make it easier for figure development to happen... things like even exporting an obj without it being broken up into groups (and toss the way it groups moving forward) is a step in the right direction.

(note: you can do this without breaking compatibility; DAZ has the old poser-style rigging, triax and the Dual Quaterion (aka General) weight mapping in the same program. It doesn't have to be all or nothing)

It wasn't an excuse so much as an observation. On financial boards I am much more vocal about what Smith Micro's management is doing wrong. This isn't the place for it. Bottom line though is Smith Micro isn't doing much in the way of building a community of third party content providers for their product, nor are they effective in maintaining a user base. At one time they had a huge number of independent artists supporting their software including Digital Arts Zone. Through a series of management decisions and time passing, they don't anymore. This is hardly DAZ's fault, and cajoling PA's here to make products that don't sell enough to be worth their time, or complaining about broken promises from DAZ are beside the point. DAZ probably isn't creating content for the same reason others aren't doing it - it isn't profitable and nobody is a charity organization. If Smith Micro wants to rebuild its third party content making base, or actually bother creating new content themselves, that has got to be their responsibility, it certainly isn't anybody elses. I don't see any sign of that happening.

Although SM meeting with Rendo may mean that they are indeed trying to find a new home with a readily created community and a new content provider thru the vendors. However the initial problems regarding the usage of, and creation for, their newest software will still stand. Much of the Poser products offered in the store are using old MAT styles from a decade ago, they aren't utilizing the full capabilities that Poser might be capable of.

I have a lot of trouble with the lighting in the newer poser and unlike with DAZ Studio where I can buy great lighting, I haven't found any for Poser's Superfly. So when I've tried to use it I'm not getting the same quality of imaging that I get without superfly or in studio.

It's also not as if they never provided content. I did commission work for them a few times. It's just the flexibility of their figures vs DAZ figures that has always been an issue.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

3-DArena posted at 8:56PM Thu, 16 November 2017 - #4318119

I have a lot of trouble with the lighting in the newer poser and unlike with DAZ Studio where I can buy great lighting, I haven't found any for Poser's Superfly. So when I've tried to use it I'm not getting the same quality of imaging that I get without superfly or in studio.

What kind of trouble are you having with Poser Lighting? can you point me to a Studio light set that you like? Are there any specific weaknesses you can point to regarding Poser lighting?

3-DArena posted at 4:55AM Fri, 17 November 2017 - #4318090

Most (not all) of the Poser content I'm seeing looks like stuff from 10 years ago in quality and shading. That's due to the lack of resources (tutorials etc) for getting better results.

This is extremely harsh on vendors. From my experience, in general, content for Poser is not inferior to content for DS. Not all content is of good quality, but that applies to both Poser and DS products.

wimvdb posted at 8:41AM Fri, 17 November 2017 - #4318132

3-DArena posted at 4:55AM Fri, 17 November 2017 - #4318090

Most (not all) of the Poser content I'm seeing looks like stuff from 10 years ago in quality and shading. That's due to the lack of resources (tutorials etc) for getting better results.

This is extremely harsh on vendors. From my experience, in general, content for Poser is not inferior to content for DS. Not all content is of good quality, but that applies to both Poser and DS products.

I actually didn't mean it that way. I meant that they don't seem to be using Superfly and that in general they look exactly as they did when V4 came out. I'm not seeing much use of superfly shaders, with the exception of a couple of vendors. It doesn't mean the items are ugly or anything, I simply meant that the advances in Poser aren't being utilized, those advances are [presumably] intended to give better results than previous versions.

It's not as if there was no quality 10 years ago, my point was that what was good, or even great then seems to be the same now. However there are a few creators that are using superfly and you can see the difference, just like older 3delight vs iray.

That makes updating poser a moot point because the majority of the content does not require even Superfly, which in the long run can lead to lack of income for SM if people aren't feeling they need to upgrade for newer content.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

EClark1894 posted at 9:08AM Fri, 17 November 2017 - #4318125

3-DArena posted at 8:56PM Thu, 16 November 2017 - #4318119

I have a lot of trouble with the lighting in the newer poser and unlike with DAZ Studio where I can buy great lighting, I haven't found any for Poser's Superfly. So when I've tried to use it I'm not getting the same quality of imaging that I get without superfly or in studio.

What kind of trouble are you having with Poser Lighting? can you point me to a Studio light set that you like? Are there any specific weaknesses you can point to regarding Poser lighting?

Regular poser lighting is fine. I can get the same results I did years ago. Superfly though is another story. I'd like to get results like good hdri lighting sets, like Dreamlight's sets as an example. I actually don't have Poser installed right now, though I did buy Poser 11 in January because I hate not owning a current (decent, I skipped 5 lol) version of it. I bought a new pc a few months ago and didn't bother to install it.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

3-DArena posted at 11:04AM Fri, 17 November 2017 - #4318148

EClark1894 posted at 9:08AM Fri, 17 November 2017 - #4318125

3-DArena posted at 8:56PM Thu, 16 November 2017 - #4318119

I have a lot of trouble with the lighting in the newer poser and unlike with DAZ Studio where I can buy great lighting, I haven't found any for Poser's Superfly. So when I've tried to use it I'm not getting the same quality of imaging that I get without superfly or in studio.

What kind of trouble are you having with Poser Lighting? can you point me to a Studio light set that you like? Are there any specific weaknesses you can point to regarding Poser lighting?

Regular poser lighting is fine. I can get the same results I did years ago. Superfly though is another story. I'd like to get results like good hdri lighting sets, like Dreamlight's sets as an example. I actually don't have Poser installed right now, though I did buy Poser 11 in January because I hate not owning a current (decent, I skipped 5 lol) version of it. I bought a new pc a few months ago and didn't bother to install it.

Have you tried Snarlygribbly's EZDOME utility? http://www.snarlygribbly.org/snarlyspace/ezdome.html It coe with a .pdf file to help you install it properly and how to use it. My Poser content directory has a listing of websites where you can download for free or buy hdr images to add to or build your own library for use in EZ Dome or whatever. Hope this helps.

I'll look into that. I hadn't heard of it, which is kind of the point. Poser isn't getting the same mainstream support in the stores for it's PBR system. I'd have happily paid for various hdri lights and even shaders. The offered Poser shaders/materials aren't for poser's PBR system that I've seen, but the same types of product for Studio includes PBR options.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

3-DArena posted at 12:26PM Fri, 17 November 2017 - #4318154

I'll look into that. I hadn't heard of it, which is kind of the point. Poser isn't getting the same mainstream support in the stores for it's PBR system. I'd have happily paid for various hdri lights and even shaders. The offered Poser shaders/materials aren't for poser's PBR system that I've seen, but the same types of product for Studio includes PBR options.

My directory may also be able to help you out in that respect as well. Input the following url.

http://www.3dcontentdirectory.com/directory/Materials.html

3-DArena posted at 3:28AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318154

I'll look into that. I hadn't heard of it, which is kind of the point. Poser isn't getting the same mainstream support in the stores for it's PBR system. I'd have happily paid for various hdri lights and even shaders. The offered Poser shaders/materials aren't for poser's PBR system that I've seen, but the same types of product for Studio includes PBR options.

You're a vendor. Why aren't you making some of this content that you're saying others aren't making? Honest question, not being snarky. Really. I realize there's a learning curve to the latest features and rendering (I'm working through that curve myself at the moment with materials), but the same is true with iray, etc. Making content is a constant learning process and requires continually updating your skills and toolset to meet the present requirements and expectations. If the customers aren't buying its because the content isn't there to be bought.

Rosity recently conducted a poll on Poser users and more than 50% of them were using P11 or higher. When you factor in P10 the numbers get closer to 75% or more.

AmbientShade posted at 5:35AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318245

3-DArena posted at 3:28AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318154

I'll look into that. I hadn't heard of it, which is kind of the point. Poser isn't getting the same mainstream support in the stores for it's PBR system. I'd have happily paid for various hdri lights and even shaders. The offered Poser shaders/materials aren't for poser's PBR system that I've seen, but the same types of product for Studio includes PBR options.

You're a vendor. Why aren't you making some of this content that you're saying others aren't making? Honest question, not being snarky. Really. I realize there's a learning curve to the latest features and rendering (I'm working through that curve myself at the moment with materials), but the same is true with iray, etc. Making content is a constant learning process and requires continually updating your skills and toolset to meet the present requirements and expectations. If the customers aren't buying its because the content isn't there to be bought.

Rosity recently conducted a poll on Poser users and more than 50% of them were using P11 or higher. When you factor in P10 the numbers get closer to 75% or more.

I believe if you looked a few posts earlier she said her last poser release had so few sales that it could have been released as a freebie. I remember looking at where Dimension3D's PBR shader product ranked in popularity on the hotlist here when it released and I don't think it made it to the 2nd page of the hot list. I don't think this is an issue that you can really lay at a vendor's feet.

The one item in her store that lists Poser 11 is also compatible with DS and everything else going back to Poser 6+. So if that is the item in question, and it didn't sell well, is it really accurate to cite P11 compatibility as being the culprit?

I can't imagine there is much of anything still being made for V4 that gains that much traction in the stores anymore unless it's truly a unique product or something that is usable by multiple figures - considering her market share is pretty well exhausted. But it goes back to the long running debate about vendors not willing to support figures that aren't daz. Yet there are at least a few who do make products for non-daz figures and do very well as a result.

According to various vendors the hot list is not an accurate method of gauging how many sales a particular item gets. There are at least a few Poser products on the first few rows of the hot list right now.

AmbientShade posted at 7:08AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318252

The one item in her store that lists Poser 11 is also compatible with DS and everything else going back to Poser 6+. So if that is the item in question, and it didn't sell well, is it really accurate to cite P11 compatibility as being the culprit?

I can't imagine there is much of anything still being made for V4 that gains that much traction in the stores anymore unless it's truly a unique product or something that is usable by multiple figures - considering her market share is pretty well exhausted. But it goes back to the long running debate about vendors not willing to support figures that aren't daz. Yet there are at least a few who do make products for non-daz figures and do very well as a result.

According to various vendors the hot list is not an accurate method of gauging how many sales a particular item gets. There are at least a few Poser products on the first few rows of the hot list right now.

Again, we're engaging in yet another round of vendor blaming. That's not the problem. If the features aren't properly documented or incomplete, like not being able to export an obj that isn't grouped or unable to use an HDRI in a scene Superfly scene without a 3rd party addon, and the "replacement" for it is hard to change, is that the vendor's fault? If the features aren't compelling enough for a vendor product known for good work barely make it to a 2nd page of the hot list, is that the vendor's fault? The problem yet again, is these discussions refuse to take the proper entity to task for issues, blaming everyone else. Until that mindset changes, nothing else will.

You can export a grouped (or ungrouped) obj from Poser. I do it all the time without issue. The issue is exporting a rigged model from Poser. This is not a new issue and is easily overcome. As well there is plenty of info available for hdr lighting and every other type of lighting, along with info on just about every aspect of Poser you can think of. You have to be willing to use the information and ask questions when something isn't clear or there's an issue. Renderosity and SM both have extensive youtube channels with dozens of hours of training material all about Poser. And sure, there is plenty SM could do to improve things and add better features, no one denies that. The real problem is constantly blaming one company for not strapping themselves to the whims of another company. No business in their right mind would ever do that, regardless what type of product they're producing.

AmbientShade posted at 7:34AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318254

You can export a grouped (or ungrouped) obj from Poser. I do it all the time without issue. The issue is exporting a rigged model from Poser. This is not a new issue and is easily overcome. As well there is plenty of info available for hdr lighting and every other type of lighting, along with info on just about every aspect of Poser you can think of. You have to be willing to use the information and ask questions when something isn't clear or there's an issue. Renderosity and SM both have extensive youtube channels with dozens of hours of training material all about Poser.

You can't export it for figure development. It exports incorrectly. This is why either you have to either use the original OBJ for making morphs, or you use Go-Z to send it to zbrush and save it from there. Even Vilters said it on the official poser forum, so your information on this matter is incorrect. One of my eariler M4 projects got rejected from QA because of this issue because i tried to do it all in Poser. I had to fix it in zbrush for it to pass. From that point on I learned not to export morphs in this manner from experience. All my new projects make use of JCMs for joint bends and flexes and MCMs for eye closes.. I would figure that would be difficult to do in Poser if I didn't have a copy of zbrush to grab a modified obj to morph for a jcm or mcm.

I also see you glossed of the HDRI issue. You can't use an HDRI directly that is an issue that you shouldn't have to look up anywhere.. and there was a freebie made to address that issue because the implementation was incomplete as I said.

Wrong. You can in fact export it for figure development. My figures were done that way. Their geometry is welded. You don't use the obj that gets saved to the library. Once you've pointed the cr2 to the master obj everything remains welded even after multiple saves to the library. The only time that changes is if you go back into the setup room. Then you'll have to redirect the saved cr2 to your master obj again. I import objs into Poser, send them to zbrush, back to poser and export again and the obj remains welded the entire time. I've explained this to Vilters and others numerous times but people insist on perpetuating false information.

AmbientShade posted at 7:46AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318256

Wrong. You can in fact export it for figure development. My figures were done that way. Their geometry is welded. You don't use the obj that gets saved to the library. Once you've pointed the cr2 to the master obj everything remains welded even after multiple saves to the library. The only time that changes is if you go back into the setup room. Then you'll have to redirect the saved cr2 to your master obj again. I import objs into Poser, send them to zbrush, back to poser and export again and the obj remains welded the entire time. I've explained this to Vilters and others numerous times but people insist on perpetuating false information.

And you said just what I mentioned... you sent them to zbrush. I just said that, because you can't export them directly because that feature does not exist. If you do a File->export It does not work; it breaks up the mesh on a gen4... and that's probably because it's rigged... go-z to zbrush does and i didn't disagree with you there.

Now if welded figures work, that would be another issue.. but until your figure actually is available and popular, this does not exist so the development comment stands. But a vendor should not have to pay $800 for a zbrush license to be able to work with modified objs; that's an impediment to development that should not exist.

What feature doesn't exist? I don't know what you mean. You can export a grouped and welded obj directly from Poser into your runtime via the file menu.

You can import a welded obj and send it to zbrush via goz and create morphs that way.

You can also send a rigged and posed figure to zbrush via goz, create jcms and any other kind of morph and send it back to poser.

The thing you can't do is work on the model of a rigged figure that's been saved to the library because Poser does not keep that model welded when saved. That's the version of the model that has the welding issue. But once you redirect the cr2 to the master (welded) obj that you manually exported via the file menu, you can then bring that model into poser and work on morphs.

AmbientShade posted at 9:22AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318259

What feature doesn't exist? I don't know what you mean. You can export a grouped and welded obj directly from Poser into your runtime via the file menu.

You can import a welded obj and send it to zbrush via goz and create morphs that way.

You can also send a rigged and posed figure to zbrush via goz, create jcms and any other kind of morph and send it back to poser.

The thing you can't do is work on the model of a rigged figure that's been saved to the library because Poser does not keep that model welded when saved. That's the version of the model that has the welding issue. But once you redirect the cr2 to the master (welded) obj that you manually exported via the file menu, you can then bring that model into poser and work on morphs.

You keep repeating what I'm saying. Without using zbrush you can't export a correct obj for morphs using File-Export. It does not work, it breaks figures such as V4 up into groups that will not import as a morph correctly. That feature does exist. Are you advocating that users pay $800 to be able to save out objs from rigged figures that should be available in the program? A wielded figure may export correctly, but that's not what's on the market today, is it? Vendors can only work with what's available, not things that are hypothetical. This problem has not been fixed, just worked around or as you seem to be saying "use another figure that will work".

How were people making morphs for all the years when there was only Poser? When zbrush didn't exist or wasn't a standard?

Never said you have to have zbrush. You can use blender or magnets and the morph brush if that's what you want. And there's scripts that import morphs for you if you can't get them to import correctly on your own.

Pretending Poser is impossible for people to make content for doesn't make it true.

AmbientShade posted at 10:57AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318252

The one item in her store that lists Poser 11 is also compatible with DS and everything else going back to Poser 6+. So if that is the item in question, and it didn't sell well, is it really accurate to cite P11 compatibility as being the culprit?

I can't imagine there is much of anything still being made for V4 that gains that much traction in the stores anymore unless it's truly a unique product or something that is usable by multiple figures - considering her market share is pretty well exhausted. But it goes back to the long running debate about vendors not willing to support figures that aren't daz. Yet there are at least a few who do make products for non-daz figures and do very well as a result.

According to various vendors the hot list is not an accurate method of gauging how many sales a particular item gets. There are at least a few Poser products on the first few rows of the hot list right now.

Actually the item that I did this year, had no Studio MATs at all. It was completely for Poser and was an expansion for an outfit that was in the What's Hot (get to that in a moment) section, albeit not at the top, but it was the first Poser product listed for awhile. I do characters, but I mainly do clothing expansions and have for over 17 years, I also owned a brokerage store for about 10 of those years. I know the ballpark for what the numbers should be for various releases based on the current market, particularly if the expansion is for a seemingly popular set. This set is in the flash sales right now and at just over $2 is still not selling.https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/7th-ave-mmcutie-rb-dresssetforv4elitea4/120307</https:>

Keep in mind when I did this set I was pretty sure it would do badly, so I didn't go into it expecting better. But people, like those in this thread, kept pressuring me to go back to Poser. I was hoping to be surprised though, because as I've stated Poser is my first love.

Your point about anything for V4 not having that much traction is actually big part of the problem with Poser, because no other figure is being used for any version of Poser more prolifically than V4. It's actually part of the problem, as I've said repeatedly. The fault of that lies with SM not with the Vendors. If Poser is going to survive long term much less be regenerated than it absolutely needs a figure that can compete with Genesis.

There is no vendor I know of that is doing only non-daz figures and doing "very well". Then again my concept of very well and theirs may vary. I may have missed someone doing so though.

As for the Hot List, it is an actual representation of popularity, or volume purchased or gifted. Currently in the first 20 spaces of What's Hot there is 1 Poser item, a hair product by Biscuits. Now I don't use Poser but I do buy most of Biscuits hair because there are fits for G3/G8 included and I use Iray shader by OOT for them. However, this set actually now includes Studio MATs.

Hair, props and architecture may be marked as Poser products, but there are enough available shader products out there to convert them to Studio and the buyers for those are not just Poser users. That is missing for Poser users.

Knowing top selling vendors that have created products for various figures their sales follow a specific pattern; the newest Genesis female, then V4, then Dawn. The gap in sales for them between the newest genesis female and them V4 is rather large, and between v4 and Dawn it's like an abyss. Most of them stopped creating for Poser preferred figures because of that. I know of some vendors who have left this genre because Poser products didn't sell anymore and others who have stated they may retire if it stays like this.

I was one of those, I knew that if I couldn't get Studio to work on my system that I would have to retire because Poser sales were so bad. I did not want to switch to Studio. Once I did & adjusted I found that everything was so much simpler in Studio. I could work, create art/products in far less steps than I could with Poser and the difference in sales was extreme..

I've actually seen posts here where people will say something along the lines of "DAZ is selling V4 items crazy cheap, I just bought a whole bunch of it! Go and buy it that will show them there is still an interest in V4!" Seriously, I've seen very similar comments posted here in different words. That doesn't show anyone that there is still an interest in V4 products it shows them that those users are only willing to buy V4 items when they are dirt cheap.

AmbientShade posted at 11:39AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318263

Pretending Poser is impossible for people to make content for doesn't make it true.

It's not that it's impossible to work with, it's that the effort to do so isn't paying out in the long run. If it were vendors would be doing it.

It's honestly time to stop blaming vendors for lack of products for Poser because that doesn't exactly make them want to invest the time, and instead look to the software company.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

AmbientShade posted at 11:43AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318245

3-DArena posted at 3:28AM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318154

I'll look into that. I hadn't heard of it, which is kind of the point. Poser isn't getting the same mainstream support in the stores for it's PBR system. I'd have happily paid for various hdri lights and even shaders. The offered Poser shaders/materials aren't for poser's PBR system that I've seen, but the same types of product for Studio includes PBR options.

You're a vendor. Why aren't you making some of this content that you're saying others aren't making? Honest question, not being snarky. Really. I realize there's a learning curve to the latest features and rendering (I'm working through that curve myself at the moment with materials), but the same is true with iray, etc. Making content is a constant learning process and requires continually updating your skills and toolset to meet the present requirements and expectations. If the customers aren't buying its because the content isn't there to be bought.

Rosity recently conducted a poll on Poser users and more than 50% of them were using P11 or higher. When you factor in P10 the numbers get closer to 75% or more.

Because the payout isn't there for me. I'll be honest, creating for multiple software programs takes time. If I'm creating for Poser and it flops that's time I could have created for Studio and had a successful product. At various times we live on my income, I honestly can't afford to create content that takes several days or a week and have it earn only enough for a starbucks coffee a day (which I don't drink, just making a point), unless the item is going to have long term sales as a back catalog item.

However, you missed my point. That "conversation" was in regards to Poser items looking as they did 10 years ago - which isn't an insult to the products, merely a reflection of the software. They do because even with all the changes to Poser the standard is the same. Most aren't using HDRI images or PBR settings in their renders. If the majority of the end users aren't using the latest bells & whistles then there is no reason to update one's software. No updating means no $$ for SM and that means they do what they did, disassemble the Poser Department and start looking either for buyers or partners to add content.

As for Rendo polls, I love Rendo but I don't trust their polls. Not due to fraud or anything but the percentage of those who bothered to take it. The truth is that polls are most often filled out by those who want to see change, or are afraid it will occur and want to vote to stop it or who are active participants in the site. Truth is satisfied customers, those who are getting what they want, don't post, comment, etc. There are other reasons I don't trust their polls, mainly because it often doesn't bear out to what I see in the listing for popular products or what top sellers are stating to each other in conversations. Popular products and the sales numbers from Top Sellers (not just the Top 50 listing but let's say those floating around that number as well) are showing that the most purchases are for Studio products - with the exception of Hair, props and architecture that can be converted to iray in Studio.

An example: I was constantly told by users in the forum and creators who have sworn to never switch (they'd retire first), that Studio sales were a fad, they weren't as good and Poser was more viable. I wanted to believe that. However, vendors were telling me otherwise. I was being encouraged by vendors to switch and they were explaining the difference in the sales. I bought a new (to me) computer when my motherboard died and suddenly Studio worked, so I tried it. It was the vendors telling me to switch that were correct. At first I created for Poser & studio, but when I did Studio only items I didn't lose any sales volume, I gained it. My example isn't unique to me and that's the issue.

Yes, there was a learning curve, but tackling it paid off in the long run. I'm not afraid to learn new software, but as it's my job that time spent has to be of value. It has to convert to either increased sales or quality images. Those I know that are still creating for Poser only aren't experiencing that. There are those that create for Poser, but many of them are still trying to expand to Studio, either limited machines/video cards or having trouble with learning new software. They are trying to do that because they know that if they can it will pay off and that it's the way the market is leaning.

Maybe if there were figures for Poser that could compete with Genesis it would be different. Truth is though, that for Poser users, it will also have to compete with V4, because many who stay with her do so out of loyalty to the figure and because they actually do not want to buy all new products for her. Which also correlates to them not being the largest shopping numbers for the marketplaces.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

AmbientShade posted at 1:54PM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318263

How were people making morphs for all the years when there was only Poser? When zbrush didn't exist or wasn't a standard?

The same way they would do now, use the original obj to morph from the geometries folder. Also keep in mind DS can export an obj (such as the head part only from V4) and import a modified version back in, so some used that for development. But a lot of products used just the provided morphs from Morphs++ to create their products. And that is still the same workflow you would do now, unless you own a copy of zbrush to pass the obj to.

Never said you have to have zbrush. You can use blender or magnets and the morph brush if that's what you want. And there's scripts that import morphs for you if you can't get them to import correctly on your own.

Yes you can but if you're using blender, you're still going to the geometries folder for the obj. And magnets can be converted to morphs and saved in a pmd.. but not as the obj file.

Pretending Poser is impossible for people to make content for doesn't make it true.

I never said it was impossible. What i said it's harder than it needs to be; simple functionality like the obj export and groups should be fixed so you're doing more work with the tools within Poser. Poser added the ability to create the injection files for morphs, but it puts it in a PMD file that you can't edit without a 3rd party tool. That doesn't make the workflow easier, it makes it harder as you're jumping from program to make a product, or you're hand coding things that should be automated. I've said before that SM really needs to talk to actual vendors that make the products they want to target, but that hasn't happened yet.. and it's certainly what I've heard from some of the vendors formerly from RDNA that sat down with DS and realized that they don't have to do as many steps as they've done before. That's not how you keep your vendors if find they can do things easier with another program than with the one they love.

@3-DArena

Just curious, does the product you listed come with Superfly mats?

DreaminGirl posted at 7:23PM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318287

@3-DArena

Just curious, does the product you listed come with Superfly mats?

No because I couldn't get decent lighting for Superfly renders to check that it looked good. I won't offer something I can't test for myself. Before release I checked it against other expansions in the store and none of them at the time included Superfly, most still don't.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Makes you wonder why SM should even bother updating their software if vendors don't use the new features. I would buy hella lot more Poser content if they had Superfly mats. As it is, I already have loads of content, so why buy anything new if it doesn't offer anything new?

DreaminGirl posted at 8:12PM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318294

Makes you wonder why SM should even bother updating their software if vendors don't use the new features. I would buy hella lot more Poser content if they had Superfly mats. As it is, I already have loads of content, so why buy anything new if it doesn't offer anything new?

Which is exactly the point. Unlike with Studio the newest features aren't pushed or encouraged by SM in content. The best way to do that is to attempt to generate Poser content with the newest software and to then actually interact with those vendors creating the content to time with that release. Explain to them how it works, show them the best way to get results, explain that you want those items to include options for the new features.

I'd have happily created Superfly content for it, I had intended to. But trying to get good results wasn't happening as I couldn't light it well.

If some of those who use Superfly and render well with would release lights/settings etc then truthfully superfly materials would most likely be included. DAZ includes really good starter lights and settings right off the bat and information to get good results is often in the forums.

I should try again and see what it looks like with my new machine, when I have time.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Ghostship had released some pretty good lightsets for free here: Studio Portrait Lights for Poser 11 & Poser 11 Pro

You should also check out the official Poser forums at SM, there is a lot of good information there, and also helpful people to get you started. SM also has tutorials on Youtube. There is actually loads of P11 tutorials and freebies out there, but they don't have Daz3D's PR machine behind them ;)

3-DArena posted at 9:29PM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318296

DreaminGirl posted at 8:12PM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318294

Makes you wonder why SM should even bother updating their software if vendors don't use the new features. I would buy hella lot more Poser content if they had Superfly mats. As it is, I already have loads of content, so why buy anything new if it doesn't offer anything new?

Which is exactly the point. Unlike with Studio the newest features aren't pushed or encouraged by SM in content. The best way to do that is to attempt to generate Poser content with the newest software and to then actually interact with those vendors creating the content to time with that release. Explain to them how it works, show them the best way to get results, explain that you want those items to include options for the new features.

I touched on that in my comment as well. Instead of SM talking with the vendors to get them up to speed on new features and get their input on the workflow, the vendors are pretty much getting the release the same time as regular customers, with little docs on how to properly set it up. So the vendors are struggling to use new features around making products for a living and ultimately getting blamed for something that was never properly explained to them. And I don't see how a lot of new features can be used if vendors are in the dark on how to use them, especially when they won't even be able to start on projects using those features until well after the product is officially released.

3-DArena posted at 12:27AM Mon, 20 November 2017 - #4318292

DreaminGirl posted at 7:23PM Sun, 19 November 2017 - #4318287

@3-DArena

Just curious, does the product you listed come with Superfly mats?

No because I couldn't get decent lighting for Superfly renders to check that it looked good. I won't offer something I can't test for myself. Before release I checked it against other expansions in the store and none of them at the time included Superfly, most still don't.

Here's something I found that may help if you didn't already know about it. Hope it helps.

http://www.sharecg.com/v/84810/gallery/3/PDF-Tutorial/Lighting-relationships-in-Poser

DreaminGirl posted at 12:31AM Mon, 20 November 2017 - #4318297

Ghostship had released some pretty good lightsets for free here: Studio Portrait Lights for Poser 11 & Poser 11 Pro

You should also check out the official Poser forums at SM, there is a lot of good information there, and also helpful people to get you started. SM also has tutorials on Youtube. There is actually loads of P11 tutorials and freebies out there, but they don't have Daz3D's PR machine behind them ;)

I've gathered a plethora of Poser tutorials on lighting and other subjects Here

The main issue is that the two apps hit a fork in the road a while ago which has splintered the professional content market, making it hard for any developer to be broad across the entire market space. For example here is the latest I am working on, a multi piece armor set for Genesis 8 Male. Almost everything in these renders is custom made for Daz Studio, the only scene based item that I didn't have hand in creating myself is the Genesis 8 Male figure. Tbh, I'm not sure where I would start making this product Poser ready.

Anyone want to provide a quote for converting this one for Poser usage with promo artwork suitable renders? TBH I am not even sure what the latest Male figure for Poser would be optimal to create for? Orion maybe?:. Nor where I should start in as far as Shader bases for Superfly materials. Or where to start with Superfly lighting as mentioned... Or do I need Firefly mat presets also these days... and meybe 3Delight as well..... .......

Anyway its good to see a render in the thread, maybe someone wants to share some Superfly goodness?

A comment only Razor, and not trying to start an "my app is better than your app" argument. You know me better than that. For my part. 1. Nice render. I really like it. Although, what is that between his legs. looks like part of the armor is ... melting? Also, Love the lighting, but I can't tell what that is behind him. Sky or is something on fire?

Now to answer some of your questions. Truthfully, I don't really see anything that couldn't be accomplished in Poser 11 with Superfly or Cycles. As for the figure, well, I think you know that I'm probably into the Hivewire figures, Dusk and Dawn, so if I were going to begin a conversion, I'd probably go there. Mind you, now, realism isn't really my thing, so I'd probably lean more towards the Cycles shaders than any Superfly oriented ones. People really do forget that Superfly is really just a hybrid of Cycles and Firefly. For me, coming from a Blender perspective, Cycles is a little more direct and easier to get there for me.

EClark1894 posted at 1:03PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318330

A comment only Razor, and not trying to start an "my app is better than your app" argument. You know me better than that. For my part. 1. Nice render. I really like it. Although, what is that between his legs. looks like part of the armor is ... melting? Also, Love the lighting, but I can't tell what that is behind him. Sky or is something on fire?

The armor is still WIP so the melting part of the armor is cloth that hasn't had the materials completed as yet. As far as the background, It isn't anything definite, just put the scene together as a progress render to see how the shaders were working under different lighting conditions. The flames in the background are a dome light emitter, the scene uses a sun and sky base which is set for late afternoon and a second box emitter light placed above the figure.

Now to answer some of your questions. Truthfully, I don't really see anything that couldn't be accomplished in Poser 11 with Superfly or Cycles. As for the figure, well, I think you know that I'm probably into the Hivewire figures, Dusk and Dawn, so if I were going to begin a conversion, I'd probably go there. Mind you, now, realism isn't really my thing, so I'd probably lean more towards the Cycles shaders than any Superfly oriented ones. People really do forget that Superfly is really just a hybrid of Cycles and Firefly. For me, coming from a Blender perspective, Cycles is a little more direct and easier to get there for me.

I'm not trying to make a point that this couldn't be done with Poser and I'm sure most of it could with enough patience or knowledge of Poser's production pipelines. The point is that the two apps have divided so much that this would be a complete rebuild with a lot of extra work required to include Poser compatibility for this product. It's not a case of vendors neglecting to do a few tweaks and making a product Poser ready. The fractured nature of the Poser market makes it pretty hard to keep everyone happy these days. With Poser users using at least 3 major figure ranges from different developers (SM figures, Daz, Hivewire), users spread over different release versions and also now by preferred render engine. This adds up to lots of extra work to finalise a product with a broad level of compatibility. And if the returns/sales are not there to cover the extra work, then... ...

Razor42 posted at 10:25PM Mon, 20 November 2017 - #4318390

EClark1894 posted at 1:03PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318330

A comment only Razor, and not trying to start an "my app is better than your app" argument. You know me better than that. For my part. 1. Nice render. I really like it. Although, what is that between his legs. looks like part of the armor is ... melting? Also, Love the lighting, but I can't tell what that is behind him. Sky or is something on fire?

The armor is still WIP so the melting part of the armor is cloth that hasn't had the materials completed as yet. As far as the background, It isn't anything definite, just put the scene together as a progress render to see how the shaders were working under different lighting conditions. The flames in the background are a dome light emitter, the scene uses a sun and sky base which is set for late afternoon and a second box emitter light placed above the figure.

Now to answer some of your questions. Truthfully, I don't really see anything that couldn't be accomplished in Poser 11 with Superfly or Cycles. As for the figure, well, I think you know that I'm probably into the Hivewire figures, Dusk and Dawn, so if I were going to begin a conversion, I'd probably go there. Mind you, now, realism isn't really my thing, so I'd probably lean more towards the Cycles shaders than any Superfly oriented ones. People really do forget that Superfly is really just a hybrid of Cycles and Firefly. For me, coming from a Blender perspective, Cycles is a little more direct and easier to get there for me.

I'm not trying to make a point that this couldn't be done with Poser and I'm sure most of it could with enough patience or knowledge of Poser's production pipelines. The point is that the two apps have divided so much that this would be a complete rebuild with a lot of extra work required to include Poser compatibility for this product. It's not a case of vendors neglecting to do a few tweaks and making a product Poser ready. The fractured nature of the Poser market makes it pretty hard to keep everyone happy these days. With Poser users using at least 3 major figure ranges from different developers (SM figures, Daz, Hivewire), users spread over different release versions and also now by preferred render engine. This adds up to lots of extra work to finalise a product with a broad level of compatibility. And if the returns/sales are not there to cover the extra work, then... ...

I think you should define the flames in the background more. It will make the render more dramatic.

Male_M3dia posted at 12:32PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318299

I touched on that in my comment as well. Instead of SM talking with the vendors to get them up to speed on new features and get their input on the workflow, the vendors are pretty much getting the release the same time as regular customers, with little docs on how to properly set it up. So the vendors are struggling to use new features around making products for a living and ultimately getting blamed for something that was never properly explained to them. And I don't see how a lot of new features can be used if vendors are in the dark on how to use them, especially when they won't even be able to start on projects using those features until well after the product is officially released.

Again this is also not true. There have been lengthy webinars conducted with every release of Poser since at least P9/2012 that go over every new feature. Those webinars start before Poser is even released and are still available today. There are a number of vendors who are also beta testers who have access to those features and forums to discuss them. If people aren't going to take the time to participate in the webinars or at least watch them later, then that is no one's fault but their own. The information is there for everyone. The truth of it is most don't bother taking the time to even investigate what those new features are as once they get wind that the latest version of Poser still hasn't shackled itself to daz's whims, they just ignore everything else.

AmbientShade posted at 2:18PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318441

Male_M3dia posted at 12:32PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318299

I touched on that in my comment as well. Instead of SM talking with the vendors to get them up to speed on new features and get their input on the workflow, the vendors are pretty much getting the release the same time as regular customers, with little docs on how to properly set it up. So the vendors are struggling to use new features around making products for a living and ultimately getting blamed for something that was never properly explained to them. And I don't see how a lot of new features can be used if vendors are in the dark on how to use them, especially when they won't even be able to start on projects using those features until well after the product is officially released.

Again this is also not true. There have been lengthy webinars conducted with every release of Poser since at least P9/2012 that go over every new feature. Those webinars start before Poser is even released and are still available today. There are a number of vendors who are also beta testers who have access to those features and forums to discuss them. If people aren't going to take the time to participate in the webinars or at least watch them later, then that is no one's fault but their own. The information is there for everyone. The truth of it is most don't bother taking the time to even investigate what those new features are as once they get wind that the latest version of Poser still hasn't shackled itself to daz's whims, they just ignore everything else.

Again, you're not listening to what I'm saying. You're talking about a webinar that EVERYONE has access to; I'm talking about SM actually talking with vendors to show new features, get them up to speed on how to use it, and get feedback on how to make their workflow easier. This is why you have so few using the new features; vendors don't have time to blindly figure out how to figure out features around making their products to pay bills.

That didn't happen. And yes there some vendors that beta test poser (I used to be one of them, and they have my comments how to improve their figure development tools that they never did a thing with) , but we're not talking about beta testing, because that infers that you're already done with development not taking input from them. The thread is about how to get more Poser content, and it seems that vendors have everything they need, when obviously that's not true otherwise this thread would not exist.

This part of your post sticks out:

The truth of it is most don't bother taking the time to even investigate what those new features are as once they get wind that the latest version of Poser still hasn't shackled itself to daz's whims, they just ignore everything else.

Again, whose responsibility is this? You're vendor blaming. SM is responsible for content needs of its user base. That means if not enough vendors are using the new features, then they really ought to be getting in touch with these vendors and try to get them on board with these features and figuring out how to make their job easier, instead of a 1 or 2 hour generic overview, not geared to making a product for sale and think vendors can build from that.

You're the one not paying attention to what I'm saying. Everything you just said has in fact happened and is happening. Beta testers have access to these features, and feedback is given, changes are made. SM can't force vendors to make content for them. The bottom line is that Genesis is not native to Poser, and in order to make that happen it would require SM to constantly bird dog whatever whim Daz decides to do this week or next month. Their development time would be spent constantly updating to keep their software compatible with daz. And because they haven't done that vendors ignore everything else that's added to the software and then claim they don't have time to learn new features. Don't sit there and tell me this or that doesn't happen when I know for a fact that it does happen because I'm in it. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't make content for Poser and clearly haven't in a long time.

AmbientShade posted at 3:54PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318448

You're the one not paying attention to what I'm saying. Everything you just said has in fact happened and is happening. Beta testers have access to these features, and feedback is given, changes are made. SM can't force vendors to make content for them. The bottom line is that Genesis is not native to Poser, and in order to make that happen it would require SM to constantly bird dog whatever whim Daz decides to do this week or next month. Their development time would be spent constantly updating to keep their software compatible with daz. And because they haven't done that vendors ignore everything else that's added to the software and then claim they don't have time to learn new features. Don't sit there and tell me this or that doesn't happen when I know for a fact that it does happen because I'm in it. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't make content for Poser and clearly haven't in a long time.

Why are you talking about genesis and beta testers?

Why are you talking about SM not wanting to use do all kinds of things in their code so they aren't tied to DAZ?

I'm talking about SM getting together with vendors to encourage them to make poser content, but you're trying change the subject with false equivalencies that have nothing to do with anything I said.

Your posts are exactly why Poser content isn't being made. When the point isn't going a person's way, all of a sudden it's "DAZ is this, Genesis is that!" It's not needed or helpful if you want poser content to increase for users, because they aren't getting what they need when people that don't have the answer thinks a bout of app bashing will change the subject. Poser customers deserve better than this type of discussion.

You said I don't know what I'm talking about, but I sure see a few pages of you trying to change the subject every time I disprove one of your points, you know like not knowing about development with V4. And evidently I knew enough to be a beta tester for Poser 2012, and if they didn't have so many issues with the workflow that the devs couldn't give me answers to, I would have finished that ryan 2 character that SM asked me to make.

We're done here. Hitting this ignore button is overdue.

So basically, the complaint is that Smith Micro is not Daz3D. Vive la difference..

Male_M3dia posted at 4:30PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318458

AmbientShade posted at 3:54PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318448

You're the one not paying attention to what I'm saying. Everything you just said has in fact happened and is happening. Beta testers have access to these features, and feedback is given, changes are made. SM can't force vendors to make content for them. The bottom line is that Genesis is not native to Poser, and in order to make that happen it would require SM to constantly bird dog whatever whim Daz decides to do this week or next month. Their development time would be spent constantly updating to keep their software compatible with daz. And because they haven't done that vendors ignore everything else that's added to the software and then claim they don't have time to learn new features. Don't sit there and tell me this or that doesn't happen when I know for a fact that it does happen because I'm in it. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't make content for Poser and clearly haven't in a long time.

Why are you talking about genesis and beta testers?

Why are you talking about SM not wanting to use do all kinds of things in their code so they aren't tied to DAZ?

I'm talking about SM getting together with vendors to encourage them to make poser content, but you're trying change the subject with false equivalencies that have nothing to do with anything I said.

Your posts are exactly why Poser content isn't being made. When the point isn't going a person's way, all of a sudden it's "DAZ is this, Genesis is that!" It's not needed or helpful if you want poser content to increase for users, because they aren't getting what they need when people that don't have the answer thinks a bout of app bashing will change the subject. Poser customers deserve better than this type of discussion.

You said I don't know what I'm talking about, but I sure see a few pages of you trying to change the subject every time I disprove one of your points, you know like not knowing about development with V4. And evidently I knew enough to be a beta tester for Poser 2012, and if they didn't have so many issues with the workflow that the devs couldn't give me answers to, I would have finished that ryan 2 character that SM asked me to make.

We're done here. Hitting this ignore button is overdue.

You haven't disproven anything. You're claiming that Poser doesn't have features that it clearly does have and refuse to accept that you're wrong when you say that you can't export a grouped figure or import morphs for that figure when you can, and anybody making content using the latest features knows that you can, and I'm the one that's app bashing? Wow, the hypocrisy. Development with V4 was over 10 years ago. A lot of things have changed since then. Her development is irrelevant to todays functionality. Poser is capable of creating, combining, modifying and splitting morphs without ever leaving Poser. Full body morphs to jcms for clothing. It's also capable of creating figures and conforming clothing that don't even have groups, entirely weightmapped to the figure's rig. Not a very conventional way of going about it but still quite possible. I've built and modified dozens of figures for Poser and clothing to go with them using these features, but I'm the one that's wrong. OK.

DreaminGirl posted at 5:19PM Tue, 21 November 2017 - #4318460

So basically, the complaint is that Smith Micro is not Daz3D. Vive la difference..

The subject was how to get more Poser content. I gave my thoughts on it because I have my content needs met because there's a focus on getting vendors acquainted with the features and workflows to make products so there's that. At least my posts were aimed at being helpful and constructive; I would think since people want things from vendors they'd want them to have the resources they need, otherwise someone else will give them that support. And that's where we are. It is what it is until it changes.

So its:

Customer: Where has all the Poser content gone?

Ex Poser Vendor: Sorry, Poser is just more difficult to create content with and it's not as viable as other platforms for profitability in sales of the product.

Other Vendors: That's pretty true.

Poser Ambassador: You're wrong vendors, Poser is just as good as Daz Studio to create in, I create in it all the time. In fact it's so good to create in that I rarely buy any content at all these days. And what you said about Poser is simply not true, Poser definitely doesn't need a figure such as Genesis shackling them down like a tail wagging a dog or something...

Customer: Wanders off

Vendors: Wander off

Razor42 posted at 3:49AM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318478

Poser definitely doesn't need a figure such as Genesis shackling them down like a tail wagging a dog or something...

I never said that.

Poser needs it's own genesis-like figure, which is what I've been saying for the last 4 or 5 years now.

The tech exists in Poser to do that and get it 95% of the way there. It just hasn't been done yet - least not on an 'available to the public' level.

AmbientShade posted at 9:37PM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318497

Poser needs it's own genesis-like figure, which is what I've been saying for the last 4 or 5 years now.

The tech exists in Poser to do that and get it 95% of the way there. It just hasn't been done yet - least not on an 'available to the public' level.

Or the tech could be made to adapt to one of the biggest 3rd party content markets out there atm. Or maybe there is Paul and Pauline 2 on the horizon for Poser 12. Or EroGenesis's long awaited golden girl waiting to shine a light. Or maybe just more Dawn and Dusk...

I mean its great to have a video player with it's own super exclusive codec. But a better one plays them all right? Or its developers needs to work pretty hard on delivering great content in that codec direct to it's user base.

Do you ever think what was the major figures series in Poser's most dynamic years for 3rd party content dev? If Poser is serious about delivering content it's strange that it can just ignore a mass of content that is their and 'almost' ready for it's user base (I mean has anyone costed this out at SM, or is it all still just running on grudge mode?). The new storefront for Content paradise was an interesting move, but it's still looking a little flat to me or maybe it's just a portal for SM software sales.

You know what I would love to see, scripted Poser converters for Daz Studio PBR shader's, native Genesis figure support. Direct pipelines to work between the two apps so users can utilise the best of both UI's and render systems. Easy translation so vendors can move products or projects between both app's with a minimum of effort and access both customer/user bases. More cross platform freedom for the developers and the midnight tweekers on both UI's to interact together and collaborate between the two quite similar systems. But I guess it's more profitable for someone, somewhere that we all just compete directly. Promoting exclusivity. Or maybe Poser's investments funds are just better spent on a Metaballs plugin... Wonder what Larry says...

Razor42 posted at 6:20AM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318478

So its:

Customer: Where has all the Poser content gone?

Ex Poser Vendor: Sorry, Poser is just more difficult to create content with and it's not as viable as other platforms for profitability in sales of the product.

Other Vendors: That's pretty true.

Poser Ambassador: You're wrong vendors, Poser is just as good as Daz Studio to create in, I create in it all the time. In fact it's so good to create in that I rarely buy any content at all these days. And what you said about Poser is simply not true, Poser definitely doesn't need a figure such as Genesis shackling them down like a tail wagging a dog or something...

Customer: Wanders off

Vendors: Wander off

Also SM needs re-evaluate their ambassador program, starting by removing everyone. Instead of being helpful and promoting the product to get customers to use it, they've done the opposite, generating unflattering renders and examples that don't sell the product, and when someone (customer or vendor) makes a valid suggestion, they become aggressive and attack customers and run them off. This is especially bad on the official forum, even threatening them with bans. They've done more harm than good in getting new poser content into the market and SM really needs to address this as well. Realize ambassadors are basically marketers, and as such, they need to behave in a higher standard as this is a reflection of SM. Potential customers shouldn't see them fighting and insulting others, especially when they aren't adding anything constructive to the conversation. If they aren't able to market, be helpful and be respectful, they need to resign their post and get people who can.

Also realize with most of the development staff replaced with people in Portugal, ambassadors are pretty much the only go between for customers and staff. This should be an opportunity to get that staff's ear to get Poser where it needs to be. Right now there are issues, otherwise this thread and others like it wouldn't exist. So if there is an issue with content, the ambassadors should be seriously taking suggestions on how to address this to SM; they shouldn't squander this opportunity, especially in light of they want to be competitive and make the product better. If there is an issue with content, and the way the company is doing things is no longer working, then it makes sense to help facilitate getting vendors what they need to use the product ambassadors are trying to promote people to use.

Razor42 posted at 6:36AM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318502

Or the tech could be made to adapt to one of the biggest 3rd party content markets out there atm.

Yes, and chevy parts could be made to adapt to Toyota. Microsoft parts could be made to adapt to macs, etc. Or they could develop their own tech and find better ways to broaden their own customer base. And that content can already be adapted to Poser anyway. Anything that can be exported from DS (or any other software) as an obj can be imported to Poser and rigged, textured, etc. It's not an automated process tho, there's some work involved.

Do you ever think what was the major figures series in Poser's most dynamic years for 3rd party content dev? If Poser is serious about delivering content it's strange that it can just ignore a mass of content that is their and 'almost' ready for it's user base (I mean has anyone costed this out at SM, or is it all still just running on grudge mode?). The new storefront for Content paradise was an interesting move, but it's still looking a little flat to me or maybe it's just a portal for SM software sales.

See that part that I bolded there? That's the key difference between the two. One relies entirely on content sales and gives its software away for free. The other develops and sells software that its customers can use to make mostly whatever they want and do whatever they want with. Doesn't mean content isn't important or doesn't enhance software sales. Just that they aren't as reliant on content sales as the other guys are. It's an additional stream of revenue, not the foundation of their business model. Maybe they'll move in that direction eventually, who knows. But if Poser wasn't selling, or wasn't producing enough of a profit for the company, then they wouldn't still be developing it. So somebody must be buying it. Enough somebodies for it to still be profitable to continue developing.

So let me understand if I am hearing you correctly here Ambient?

You're taking the time to write comments here on a Website that is primarily a Content Market Place, in the Marketplace Customer support section in a thread asking "Where has all the Poser Content gone?" telling people that "Anything that can be exported from DS (or any other software) as an obj can be imported to Poser and rigged, textured, etc. It's not an automated process tho, there's some work involved." Doesn't this ring a bit hollow to you? Ask yourself who it is that you are really arguing with here, who are you trying to convince that this is a viable pipeline to access content for Poser users? Are you trying to show that actual Customers asking really don't actually want Poser content made by 3rd parties? They actually prefer to make it themselves. Really tbh I am at a loss as to your motivation here.

Do you know who wants ready made content ready to render? Professional developers, artists and animators, hobbyists that aren't excited by learning to rig an entire figure just to do a Pinup render of a girl sitting on a bomb. Almost all Poser users want access to at least some professional 3rd party content from what I can see. Why are you pushing so hard to niche the Poser platform to a small group of tinkerers who shun 3rd party content and especially Daz 3D content? And why here in a content marketplace forum? The rest of your comment is pretty out there also, with some wild idea about businesses operations which seems based on pushed analogies that are designed to convince others as to what you think Poser should be, not as to what makes good business sense or what has proven successful in the past. Or for that matter fulfilling the requirements of all parties involved with Poser or it's potential customer base. Plus your company examples are quite funny, as all the opposing companies you mentioned have worked quite extensively together in the past. Collaborating, Cross party investing, shared third party resources and mutual development can be found in every company you mentioned.

"But if Poser wasn't selling, or wasn't producing enough of a profit for the company, then they wouldn't still be developing it."

Ever wonder why they needed to retrench the whole Poser development team and move the entire graphics division to Portugal? Including some of the developers that had created Poser (Larry Weinberg etc) and worked with if for years. The new Product manager for Poser and SM's other graphics software comes straight from a Fashion focused e-commerce company... As far as the rest of the development team from what I understand it's a shoestring development project now, right? A couple of developers in Serbia and a few more in the mobile software company branch in Braga Portugal.

Some of you seem to forget that prior to the release of P11, the Poser team DID in fact approach Daz3d about incorporating genesis tech, but Daz3d turned them down. (I can't be arsed finding the post about it now, but it is out there in a forum somewhere, I believe it was nerd who said it) So that ship is sailed regardless. Stop bringing it up, because it won't happen. Daz3d said no.

DreaminGirl posted at 2:04PM Thu, 23 November 2017 - #4318564

Some of you seem to forget that prior to the release of P11, the Poser team DID in fact approach Daz3d about incorporating genesis tech, but Daz3d turned them down. (I can't be arsed finding the post about it now, but it is out there in a forum somewhere) So that ship is sailed regardless. Stop bringing it up, because it won't happen. Daz3d said no.

Maybe the terms brought forward by the SM development team at that time were not suitable to Daz 3D, after Daz 3D had already spent years attempting to work with SM and the Poser platform only to be given the run around. That doesn't mean that a future deal may not be possible or it's not worth considering or discussing. Unless of course that wealth of content is not wanted by Poser users.

The issue here is a decline in Poser ready content which stems from a number of issues. Primarily a lack of base content for developers to build from. A decline in the numbers and in turn purchasing power of Poser users forcing 3rd party content vendors to push development elsewhere. The lack of a Vendor support culture within SM. And It's not helped by a culture of Poser experts who seem to think there is no actual issue and people should just get over it. Customers don't get over it, if they can't make a platform meet their needs they will move on to a new one.

If you want to come at this from the angle that Poser is a development tool and not a point and click render system, that's fine but why attempt to make that point on a Content Marketplace site, in the Marketplace support forum to an OP who wants to know why they no longer can get the range of content they once had access to.

DreaminGirl posted at 11:57PM Wed, 22 November 2017 - #4318564

Some of you seem to forget that prior to the release of P11, the Poser team DID in fact approach Daz3d about incorporating genesis tech, but Daz3d turned them down. (I can't be arsed finding the post about it now, but it is out there in a forum somewhere, I believe it was nerd who said it) So that ship is sailed regardless. Stop bringing it up, because it won't happen. Daz3d said no.

That wasn't the conversation.

Prior to the release of P11, Nerd contacted DAZ3D about updating the DSON importer for P11, not incorporate the Genesis tech. This contact was months after there was no contact from SM as there was a round of layoffs (that's when Steve and several poser devs left) and DAZ couldn't reach anyone. Keep in mind DAZ3D gave poser a list of things they needed to do if they wanted genesis to work better, like finishing the specification on the pixar subdivision (which wasn't complete in poser 2014) and that due to performance issues they've taking the importer as far as they could. Considering this was about a year of silence, that's was during the time genesis 3 was made using the industry standard dual quaterion instead of their proprietary triax and they worked on their collada and FBX exports, since one of SM's complaints was they didn't want to be tied to DAZ tech, they could simply use industry standard formats to import genesis into the program. That's when they pretty much abandoned the DSON importer for newer figures. So really it wasn't until after DAZ released Genesis 3 SM, after months of silence, that SM wanted an update to the discontinued importer. I'm not sure if DAZ responded, but they probably pointed out since they did want to use the importer and the sales of poser content got to the point that it wasn't feasible to continue development, that they could still get Genesis imported by using FBX or Collada for import and switch to dual quaternion, addressing their concerns. So yeah, DAZ said no because they discontinued development on the DSON importer for genesis 3, but nothing is stopping SM from putting the capability of dual quaterion weight mapping into the program and reading genesis in that way.

So although you wouldn't get every capability of genesis, SM could simply switch weightmapping and read the FBX spec and load genesis without DAZ involvement or tech if they choose. DAZ set Genesis 3 so the base (without geografting) could be imported using industry standards, because the base genesis can be loaded in programs like Maya because of FBX. If nerd had contacted DAZ about natively importing the DSON spec to read genesis, that would have been a different conversation (because that would be the only way to make genesis work better in poser), but that wasn't the conversation that was had.

But other than that, this is really water under the bridge and the subject is getting Poser content to customers, not convert DAZ content. And that subject really needs to leave DAZ talk out of it, and get SM involved with their vendors so it's easier for them to get out content with their newest tech to get customers motivated to buy new content and get new customers to buy Poser. SM should be and is responsible for their customer content needs, any talk about what DAZ3D has or should do should be left out of it. Yes there is a divide between the companies, but DAZ3D has set it up so that their content could be used and imported using industry standards, which was a complaint that was seen many times in these forums, the ball is in SM court if they choose to support those standards.

Razor42 posted at 10:21PM Sat, 25 November 2017 - #4318562

So let me understand if I am hearing you correctly here Ambient?

You're taking the time to write comments here on a Website that is primarily a Content Market Place, in the Marketplace Customer support section in a thread asking "Where has all the Poser Content gone?" telling people that "Anything that can be exported from DS (or any other software) as an obj can be imported to Poser and rigged, textured, etc. It's not an automated process tho, there's some work involved." Doesn't this ring a bit hollow to you?

No, because it's the truth. Example: I have G2M working in Poser, with all its morphs. I simply exported the cr2 from DS to its own runtime and linked it to my Poser library. It took all of 5 minutes to do, and did not require DSON importer. I don't even have DSON installed. I haven't bothered fixing the eye mats because it was just a test a while back to see how easy/complicated it was. So far that's the only issue in his overall functionality that I've found. Willdial has developed a script to convert G3 and G8 to Poser and from what I've seen it seems to work just as well and the G2 export does.

Ask yourself who it is that you are really arguing with here, who are you trying to convince that this is a viable pipeline to access content for Poser users? Are you trying to show that actual Customers asking really don't actually want Poser content made by 3rd parties? They actually prefer to make it themselves. Really tbh I am at a loss as to your motivation here.

I'm not 'arguing' with anyone. The rest of that statement doesn't even make sense and has nothing to do with anything I've said.

Do you know who wants ready made content ready to render? Professional developers, artists and animators, hobbyists that aren't excited by learning to rig an entire figure just to do a Pinup render of a girl sitting on a bomb. Almost all Poser users want access to at least some professional 3rd party content from what I can see.

Why are you pushing so hard to niche the Poser platform to a small group of tinkerers who shun 3rd party content and especially Daz 3D content?

I'm not and it's a pretty far stretch to suggest that I am. I said that Poser needs to develop its own content and tech that rivals its competition, not strap itself to its competition with licensing fees and saddling its developers with obligations to spend half or more of their time writing updates and patches every time daz changes direction with what they do next, which is exactly what would be required if what you suggest was fully implemented - in essence making Poser a DS clone. How would that benefit Poser or SM, since they would just be trying to sell exactly what people can already get for free.

And why here in a content marketplace forum? The rest of your comment is pretty out there also, with some wild idea about businesses operations which seems based on pushed analogies that are designed to convince others as to what you think Poser should be, not as to what makes good business sense or what has proven successful in the past. Or for that matter fulfilling the requirements of all parties involved with Poser or it's potential customer base. Plus your company examples are quite funny, as all the opposing companies you mentioned have worked quite extensively together in the past. Collaborating, Cross party investing, shared third party resources and mutual development can be found in every company you mentioned.

Collaboration is not the same as making interchangeable parts. Try putting a Z-71 water pump on a Tundra. See how far you get with that. And when it doesn't work fill Toyota's forums with demands that they make it work because you find Chevy parts superior to Toyota parts and if they don't meet those demands then Toyota will fail. Why can't I put my Asus motherboard in my macbook pro?

Ever wonder why they needed to retrench the whole Poser development team and move the entire graphics division to Portugal?...

Poser is a small part of SM's portfolio and restructuring is not uncommon in larger companies. There could be any number of reasons why they did what they did with their graphics division. Usually development of products is moved elsewhere to lower costs and increase revenue. It doesn't mean the product is performing poorly in sales. Maybe they wanted new developers on the project to give it a new vision or direction. Why do top rated tv shows routinely replace their writing teams? If Poser wasn't performing to SM's satisfaction, or at least showed the potential to do so, then why are they still developing it?

There's a lot of things I'd like to see both added and improved on with the next version of Poser, but merging it with DS, or making it a DS clone is not one of them. You seem to think that Poser should license DS's tech so that the content for DS "flows seamlessly between the two apps". How would that benefit SM? The app that DS content "works seamlessly" in is already available for free, and as DS content vendors have already stated, adding Poser support to their content has not resulted in any significant increase to their overall sales which is why many have stopped including it. So explain how it would benefit Poser, or those wanting more Poser content - as making G3+ Poser compatible requires far more than just the addition of dual quaternion rigging. What incentive would content vendors have to continue making their content compatible with Poser?

Developing new content for Poser that equals or surpasses the quality of the content for DS, along with adding and developing new features that DS and other competitors do not have, is how Poser grows its demand for content.

Add to that, content created 'for the masses' is far more involved than content created for personal use. You can get away with a lot more shortcuts when building content for yourself than you can when you're building content to sell. Since the introduction of Pro, Poser has been steadily moving more towards the 'DIYers' and indie devs, at least from my perspective. With every new release the majority of features have been geared towards content creation and modification, making it more of a tool box than just a delivery platform. There are no limitations or stipulations placed on its features regarding what you can do with the content you create. As long as you have a pro license, every feature of the software is available to you to do with as you please. This gives more people the option of making and modifying their own stuff, and reduces their dependency on content vendors. Bad for content vendors, +1 for end users. It keeps things open and unregulated, the way art should be. The fitting room, for example, is one big area that puts more control in the hands of the end user and reduces their dependency on vendors. It's not a tool intended for vendors because of how it (currently) creates the new clothing. But for someone who wants to fit a V4 outfit to Jessie or Pauline, for example, it's pretty handy. In a few minutes they have that outfit for their chosen figure and can move on with rendering it without caring about whether it's a welded obj. That's the sort of thing only vendors have to deal with.

That doesn't mean we don't need content or vendors, and I'm not saying that we don't - more content, more variation is always good - just that there is less of a demand for them because of the features that have been added in recent versions, for those willing to learn how to use them.

AmbientShade posted at 9:27AM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318665

I'm not and it's a pretty far stretch to suggest that I am. I said that Poser needs to develop its own content and tech that rivals its competition, not strap itself to its competition with licensing fees and saddling its developers with obligations to spend half or more of their time writing updates and patches every time daz changes direction with what they do next, which is exactly what would be required if what you suggest was fully implemented - in essence making Poser a DS clone. How would that benefit Poser or SM, since they would just be trying to sell exactly what people can already get for free.

The irony of that statement is that Poser was the first to hit DAZ with licensing fees. Remember that V4 face room debacle where after years of creating content Poser suddenly wanted DAZ to pay an exorbitant fee to make their newest figure face room compatible? That was a big part of what started it all.

Remember when DAZ didn't want to strap itself to a software that wasn't being updated, therefore leaving their content and livelihood to stagnant so that they had no choice but to create a software so they could move forward?

And really the complaint is that DAZ moves forward? They created DAZ Studio in order to keep moving forward, it was kind of the point.

AmbientShade posted at 9:32AM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318668

Add to that, content created 'for the masses' is far more involved than content created for personal use. You can get away with a lot more shortcuts when building content for yourself than you can when you're building content to sell. Since the introduction of Pro, Poser has been steadily moving more towards the 'DIYers' and indie devs, at least from my perspective. With every new release the majority of features have been geared towards content creation and modification, making it more of a tool box than just a delivery platform. There are no limitations or stipulations placed on its features regarding what you can do with the content you create. As long as you have a pro license, every feature of the software is available to you to do with as you please. This gives more people the option of making and modifying their own stuff, and reduces their dependency on content vendors. Bad for content vendors, +1 for end users. It keeps things open and unregulated, the way art should be. The fitting room, for example, is one big area that puts more control in the hands of the end user and reduces their dependency on vendors. It's not a tool intended for vendors because of how it (currently) creates the new clothing. But for someone who wants to fit a V4 outfit to Jessie or Pauline, for example, it's pretty handy. In a few minutes they have that outfit for their chosen figure and can move on with rendering it without caring about whether it's a welded obj. That's the sort of thing only vendors have to deal with.

That doesn't mean we don't need content or vendors, and I'm not saying that we don't - more content, more variation is always good - just that there is less of a demand >for them because of the features that have been added in recent versions, for those willing to learn how to use them.

So you are basically agreeing, as a Poser Ambassador, that for a content creator Poser is NOT as viable a software to create content for to earn income.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Ok everyone. This was originally posted by a buyer who wanted to know why there wasn't more Poser content. And although I realize that this is a valid discussion...maybe it is one we should have in the Poser forum at this point. I am moving this thread.

jennblake posted at 3:29PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318680

Ok everyone. This was originally posted by a buyer who wanted to know why there wasn't more Poser content. And although I realize that this is a valid discussion...maybe it is one we should have in the Poser forum at this point. I am moving this thread.

I don't think it's a valid discussion. I think it should be locked. It's gone from asking about Poser content to one sided software bashing.

Well that is why it is in the Poser Forum...so they can take a look at it. As I am not one of the mods/coords or community leader I leave that to them.

3-DArena posted at 6:04PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318678

So you are basically agreeing, as a Poser Ambassador, that for a content creator Poser is NOT as viable a software to create content for to earn income.

No, I'm saying that after years of users begging vendors to create content for other figures, and something more than the 100,000th bikini, and consistently being ignored, devs gave end users more tools to create and modify the content that's out there to better suit their needs. It's not much different than what DS does with its autofit features, only it doesn't require templates and isn't limited to a particular set of existing figures. I should make a correction though - the fitting room is usable by vendors for quick transfer of rigging to clothing, that just wasn't the promoted example use of it. The tools don't limit content creation for vendors, they expand the use of content to more figures.

I'm not aware of licensing fees for V4 and the face room. First I've heard of it in fact.

Instead of locking threads, maybe provide examples to counter the negative claims. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to have a productive discussion about content creation for Poser, in the Poser forum, especially if it helps to dispel the myths that it's difficult.

Folks advocating using DS and g figures believe that as an enduser, I should settle for their vision of "art". At the end of the day, there is a reason Poser users don't use DS - we've tried it (it's free, after all), and found it wanting.

Even if I was willing to stay in the pinup garden - why on earth would I drop $15 - $20 an outfit, when I can get literally hundreds of V4 outfits for $1.99 each (over at DAZ). JHC, Friday, I purchased almost $400 worth of V4/M4 content over at Daz for less than $60. Characters for 52 CENTS. Outfits for 79 CENTS.

What can I do with that? Run the clothing through the fitting room - now available for ANY figure I choose. AFA characters, harvest the skins, and they are also available for ANY figure I choose. And yes, I have purchased a number of characters just to harvest the skin textures.

Daz didn't do that 80% off sale for M4/V4 for folks that use the g figures, just like they did that DSON sale a few weeks back - they are chasing after Poser users.

Too many people here confuse vendors financial health with the software's health. Vendors come, vendors go. The reality is that most of them won't be missed - Sturgeons Law applies here, just as it does everywhere else.

IMO, Poser has been moving to DIYers' because of vendor intransigence. Too many vendors depend on their users having "learned helplessness" and accepting whatever the vendor deigned to make.

I'm working on a Star Trek TOS comic (for my own amusement). I need everybody in the same outfit. With Poser - everybody is wearing either the M4 Valiant or the V4 Courageous outfit. Daz native figures, Poser native figures, even figures I have imported via FBX.

Can't do that in DS, because the underlying tech only works with the g figures. And no, the g figures aren't a solution, again thanks to vendors (95% Caucasians don't work - need more ethnic variety - another reason to stay with a weight mapped, subdivided V4/M4, along with all of the others in my menagerie). I use whatever I need, and I am not limited by platform. G figures can easily be moved to Poser, whereas the opposite is not true.

And the same can be said for any other genre outside of pin up and/or fantasy. I pull clothing from all figures, because that is the only way I can dress my cast of characters.

Poser users are no longer dependent on whims of the vendor.

As a final note - I'd point out that to get Poser Pro levels of tools in DS, you are spending Poser Pro money for add-ons.

AmbientShade posted at 8:37PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318697

3-DArena posted at 6:04PM Sun, 26 November 2017 - #4318678

So you are basically agreeing, as a Poser Ambassador, that for a content creator Poser is NOT as viable a software to create content for to earn income.

No, I'm saying that after years of users begging vendors to create content for other figures, and something more than the 100,000th bikini, and consistently being ignored, devs gave end users more tools to create and modify the content that's out there to better suit their needs. It's not much different than what DS does with its autofit features, only it doesn't require templates and isn't limited to a particular set of existing figures. I should make a correction though - the fitting room is usable by vendors for quick transfer of rigging to clothing, that just wasn't the promoted example use of it. The tools don't limit content creation for vendors, they expand the use of content to more figures.

I'm not aware of licensing fees for V4 and the face room. First I've heard of it in fact.

Instead of locking threads, maybe provide examples to counter the negative claims. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to have a productive discussion about content creation for Poser, in the Poser forum, especially if it helps to dispel the myths that it's difficult.

They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?

EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703

They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?

Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.

The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.

I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.

The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

3-DArena posted at 1:34PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318725

EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703

They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?

Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.

The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.

I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.

The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.

I've never criticized Studio or Studio users, and for the most part that includes the vendors. I never liked that Studio existed. and I've told that to Chris Creek. He and I discussed it, and while I still don't like the split it's caused in the community, I accept that it's here and it's time to move on. There are some good things I like about Studio. I'm not going to name them because I really don't give a crap what anyone else thinks about it.

My site, while Poser -centric , can be used by anybody, even Studio users. And yes, you are included because you do have Poser content in the Renderosity store.

Now, what ever I said that you may have attributed to me as being negative towards Studio users or vendors was directed primarily at Male Media. I consider him an instigator. I personally think he likes to start fights in Poser threads to get them shut down. I am NOT his biggest fan. I don't necessarily agree with what Razor 42 has said either, but I do see him in a more positive light. Whenever I've been trying to learn something in Studio in an effort to make something compatible I've made for Dawn or Dusk, for example, he has been nice enough to step up and take the time to show me or at least explain to me how to get it to work, and I greatly appreciate that. I'm never going to be a Studio user. If Poser ever does go out of business, I'm moving to Blender.

EClark1894 posted at 2:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318731

3-DArena posted at 1:34PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318725

EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703

They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?

Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.

The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.

I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.

The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.

Now, what ever I said that you may have attributed to me as being negative towards Studio users or vendors was directed primarily at Male Media. I consider him an instigator. I personally think he likes to start fights in Poser threads to get them shut down. I am NOT his biggest fan.

Discussions aren't popularity contests, and most times people don't even listen to what I say and instantly think it's an attack. Please go back an read what I actually said in the thread instead of what you thought I said.

My posts were advocating SM get in touch with vendors and work with them to get them up to speed with new features and get their input so that encourages vendors to produce the content poser users want using the latest features. I'm not sure how posting something to help poser users was such a problem and causes a problem, unless people don't want vendors to get access to SM's resources. If you want to explain how SM giving vendors a leg up in making Poser content is a problem, you can give your explanation. I also flagged a few vendors that used to make poser content, as they've been watching the thread when it was in the market support forum, so they will be interested in hearing why my post was an issue. And please don't mention other companies, because you see this post doesn't mention as this deals with what Poser needs to do and doing so will mean you didn't read this post either.

Male_M3dia posted at 3:15PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318734

EClark1894 posted at 2:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318731

3-DArena posted at 1:34PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318725

EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703

They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?

Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.

The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.

I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.

The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.

Now, what ever I said that you may have attributed to me as being negative towards Studio users or vendors was directed primarily at Male Media. I consider him an instigator. I personally think he likes to start fights in Poser threads to get them shut down. I am NOT his biggest fan.

Discussions aren't popularity contests, and most times people don't even listen to what I say and instantly think it's an attack. Please go back an read what I actually said in the thread instead of what you thought I said.

My posts were advocating SM get in touch with vendors and work with them to get them up to speed with new features and get their input so that encourages vendors to produce the content poser users want using the latest features. I'm not sure how posting something to help poser users was such a problem and causes a problem, unless people don't want vendors to get access to SM's resources. If you want to explain how SM giving vendors a leg up in making Poser content is a problem, you can give your explanation. I also flagged a few vendors that used to make poser content, as they've been watching the thread when it was in the market support forum, so they will be interested in hearing why my post was an issue. And please don't mention other companies, because you see this post doesn't mention as this deals with what Poser needs to do and doing so will mean you didn't read this post either.

How is that productive. SM already produces tutorials and webinars showing people, users and vendors how to use it's features. Hell, I've got a page full of links to Poser tutorials on my directory covering most if not all of the features Poser has. Just click on the button on the index page marked Tutorials.

EClark1894 posted at 4:00PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318740

Male_M3dia posted at 3:15PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318734

EClark1894 posted at 2:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318731

3-DArena posted at 1:34PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318725

EClark1849 posted at 9:17AM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318703

They're not looking for a productive discussion. What have they said that was productive?

Actually, there were reasons given. I did take your site and bookmark it for when I have time to go in and dig around to look for what I need. I do own Poser Pro 11 because frankly I have owned almost every version since 4 - except for 5 & iirc, 8. I dislike not having a current version.

The problem is the same as it always is. Vendors who don't create for Poser are the bad guys, their reasons are considered irrelevant, their earnings and experience are disregarded.

I was one of those that was adamantly against Studio, I stuck with Poser & was initially unable to wrap my head around Studio. I didn't want to switch & frankly I had planned to retire from this. Then I learned more about Studio and after a bit I realized how easy it was to work with and customize for my work flow. At first I was just experimenting, but when the sales number were so vastly different I couldn't ignore it. Yes, there are those who create mainly or solely for Poser and I know that several of them do so because either they refuse to learn new things (are a bit afraid of it from how they talk and will retire before doing so) or they are running systems that can't/won't work with Iray and can't or won't upgrade their systems. They aren't earning as much for their work but it's what they are currently limited to doing - several are trying to find a way to work with IRay/studio because they know from their own earnings that they need to do so. Some just out of a love for V4 - which I understand, I am constantly in flux about creating a new character for her.

The bottom line is that if the earnings aren't there then it's unfair to expect vendors to focus there. However, that answer is never good enough when ultimately it is the most viable and honest answer.

Now, what ever I said that you may have attributed to me as being negative towards Studio users or vendors was directed primarily at Male Media. I consider him an instigator. I personally think he likes to start fights in Poser threads to get them shut down. I am NOT his biggest fan.

Discussions aren't popularity contests, and most times people don't even listen to what I say and instantly think it's an attack. Please go back an read what I actually said in the thread instead of what you thought I said.

My posts were advocating SM get in touch with vendors and work with them to get them up to speed with new features and get their input so that encourages vendors to produce the content poser users want using the latest features. I'm not sure how posting something to help poser users was such a problem and causes a problem, unless people don't want vendors to get access to SM's resources. If you want to explain how SM giving vendors a leg up in making Poser content is a problem, you can give your explanation. I also flagged a few vendors that used to make poser content, as they've been watching the thread when it was in the market support forum, so they will be interested in hearing why my post was an issue. And please don't mention other companies, because you see this post doesn't mention as this deals with what Poser needs to do and doing so will mean you didn't read this post either.

How is that productive. SM already produces tutorials and webinars showing people, users and vendors how to use it's features. Hell, I've got a page full of links to Poser tutorials on my directory covering most if not all of the features Poser has. Just click on the button on the index page marked Tutorials.

Again, I'm talking about specialized resources and contacts dealing with vendors, not generic one-shot webinars and tutorials that have no avenue for followup. There is no SM/vendor relationship. That's what I've advocating and it seems others are arguing against. Again, how is developing that relationship a bad thing? It's a very good thing to have.

Male_M3dia posted at 4:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318741

Again, I'm talking about specialized resources and contacts dealing with vendors, not generic one-shot webinars and tutorials that have no avenue for followup. There is no SM/vendor relationship. That's what I've advocating and it seems others are arguing against. Again, how is developing that relationship a bad thing? It's a very good thing to have.

It's not a bad thing. SM could do a better job of it. But there are no additional tools privy only to select vendors like there are in DS. Everyone with a pro license has access to the same tools, whether you're a vendor or an end user. As for early development, beta testers (which consist of a lot of vendors and would-be vendors) are given access to those tools and shown how to use them before the general public does. It's up to them whether they actually use them in their new content or not. If you're saying that SM should grow a network of dedicated vendors, then I can agree with that. I can also agree that SM should do more to promote some of the best poser content artists. No complaints there.

AmbientShade posted at 8:02AM Tue, 28 November 2017 - #4318742

Male_M3dia posted at 4:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318741

Again, I'm talking about specialized resources and contacts dealing with vendors, not generic one-shot webinars and tutorials that have no avenue for followup. There is no SM/vendor relationship. That's what I've advocating and it seems others are arguing against. Again, how is developing that relationship a bad thing? It's a very good thing to have.

It's not a bad thing. SM could do a better job of it. But there are no additional tools privy only to select vendors like there are in DS. Everyone with a pro license has access to the same tools, whether you're a vendor or an end user. As for early development, beta testers (which consist of a lot of vendors and would-be vendors) are given access to those tools and shown how to use them before the general public does. It's up to them whether they actually use them in their new content or not. If you're saying that SM should grow a network of dedicated vendors, then I can agree with that. I can also agree that SM should do more to promote some of the best poser content artists. No complaints there.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think you're asking SM to get into the content business. They're not a content oriented company. They don't do it very well. And only half heartedly when they attempt it. If they're going to do what you suggest, I think they should just partner up with a third party and let them handle all of the content development including recruiting and training the vendors. SM could then just focus all of it's time and resources on Poser's development.

EClark1894 posted at 8:45AM Tue, 28 November 2017 - #4318770

AmbientShade posted at 8:02AM Tue, 28 November 2017 - #4318742

Male_M3dia posted at 4:16PM Mon, 27 November 2017 - #4318741

Again, I'm talking about specialized resources and contacts dealing with vendors, not generic one-shot webinars and tutorials that have no avenue for followup. There is no SM/vendor relationship. That's what I've advocating and it seems others are arguing against. Again, how is developing that relationship a bad thing? It's a very good thing to have.

It's not a bad thing. SM could do a better job of it. But there are no additional tools privy only to select vendors like there are in DS. Everyone with a pro license has access to the same tools, whether you're a vendor or an end user. As for early development, beta testers (which consist of a lot of vendors and would-be vendors) are given access to those tools and shown how to use them before the general public does. It's up to them whether they actually use them in their new content or not. If you're saying that SM should grow a network of dedicated vendors, then I can agree with that. I can also agree that SM should do more to promote some of the best poser content artists. No complaints there.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think you're asking SM to get into the content business. They're not a content oriented company. They don't do it very well. And only half heartedly when they attempt it. If they're going to do what you suggest, I think they should just partner up with a third party and let them handle all of the content development including recruiting and training the vendors. SM could then just focus all of it's time and resources on Poser's development.

No I'm not saying that they should get into the content business, but they need to understand they need to be responsive to the needs of those that are. I'm saying there is a disconnect between SM and the vendors that needs to be addressed. That involves starting a relationship so not only vendors know how to properly use the features that they put into their program, but make sure those features meet the vendors' needs completely in order to make content. Also this relationship will help SM understand what the content makers needsand their workflows are and provide solutions in their software to make their job easier and from this there could be some best practices that can be shared to make content consistent across the various market places.

So this part of your post:

If you're saying that SM should grow a network of dedicated vendors, then I can agree with that. I can also agree that SM should do more to promote some of the best poser content artists. No complaints there.

Is sort of correct. I'm saying they should network with a group of vendors on making sure they know the new features, and from that address any needs they have in making poser content. Then those vendors and SM can disseminate that information into the community as standards for developing content. Note I'm not talking about a partnership for a 3rd party to make content, but a direct relationship between the two so that vendors get the most out of Poser and Poser includes the features that vendors need to compete.

My thoughts on this subject are as follows:

I agree with Ambientshade that for SM the company to officially try to make poser a native environment for DAZ genesis is a fools gambit.

Daz genesis is very popular with professional users in the Autodesk & maxon communities.

Search for DAZ genesis threads over on Cgsociety.org

Now... Are Autodesk , Maxon New Tek, updating their Core applications (Maya MAX ,C4D) , to run genesis "natively"?? No..

Daz already has an excellent native FBX exporter and optional paid MDD& Alembic Exporters.

I have poser pro 2014 Maxon Cinema4D Newtek Lightwave 2015 Reallusion Iclone Pro 6 .

I spend alot of time in those online communites Often time peopl are not even aware that poser stillexists but they have heard of Daz Genesis

Third party Developers have found the Genesis Quality high enough to risk developing Commercial plugins that import AND convert genesis to Their specific IK control systems for animation.

Google "3dtoall DAZ to Maya"

Google "people in motion Daz genesis C4D"

They have done so without any official endorsement from Autodesk or Maxon etc. Some are just using plain vanilla FBX Alembic or MDD I use MDD to get Hi SubD animated genesis mesh to C4D for my animated films

Poser users Have to convince SM to create native figures that Do not look like some bloody crash test dummy from the late 1990,s/early 2000's

Sorry but it is the truth..

People can croon all day about content creation strategies but third parties wont get excited about developing for figure that look like pauline .not in 2017/2018......sorry

Poser content creators need to convince SM to at least implement a decent Equivalent of the DAZ transfer tool & Autofit at a minimum.

When I decided to exit the Daz content hamster wheel and learned to model my own clothing I was taken a back by how easy it was to go from static .obj in C4D to conformed outfit in DS ..Literally three clicks and can dial in any of my hundreds of characters both human& Alien and have my custom clothing follow the(sometimes extreme) shape. No "fitting room" sessions or any such other teduim

And when I needed to move my CG self clone from Mike2 up to the genesis 2 male My MODO face sculpt .obj was a breeze to import via morphloader pro.

I honestly would not be making my own clothing if poser was my only source for figures.

Content creators left poser for DS, for two prevailing reasons. A lack of easy to use content creation tool operating under a UNIFORM STANDARD

and the severe absence of an attractive early twenties looking, WHITE FEMALE base model who uses modern figure tech.

"ProjectE" can be as young,Skinny & white as she wants But if that figure has some exotic riggin scheme that requires alot of manul work to make NEW clothing (not recylcled V4 booty shorts)...New Clothing it will not be largely embraced by the surviving poser content devs that it my prediction.

And people who want genesis in poser need to keep supporting third party coders like willdial Perhaps financially with crowd funding, because that is the only way it will continue going forward IMO.

There are many ways to light Europe :-)

My website

YouTube Channel

Yeah, about that Wolf.........

Have you actually looked at the g figures? They are anatomically accurate as any Poser figure. That is to say, they aren't.

I would HOPE that figure conversion would only take a couple of clicks in a $1,799 copy of Modo, to get it into a $2,621 copy of Cinema4d. If you are moving stuff around those software packages, there's a reason those packages cost what they do.

I'm glad to see that DS is starting to get the level of interchangeability that we have had for at least a decade with Poser. I am also glad that they now have the feature set of Poser 5.

If I want to add weight mapping, subdivision, control surfaces, and such to M2, I don't have to drop $4K in software. I just fire up Poser and add them. Just sayin'.

AFA Project E, you should peruse the thread over on the SM forum. Nothing exotic, and Ero seems to have developed a better mousetrap for clothing conversion. Pay particular attention to the wireframe image of the pair of V4 jeans that Project E is wearing - it's done entirely within Poser.

As a Poser user, I'm not too concerned about the g figures, especially G3/8 - they look (and perform) exactly like their V4 ancestors, albeit at a higher cost. The major difference is I can add control surfaces to

Wolf and Ssybryan:

Can you guys not do this DS/Poser war in this thread? The poor horse has suffered enough and the only thing this will do is get yet another thread lock. The topic deals with how Poser users can get more content, not which software is better and can do what.

Boni, where you at? ;)

Can you guys not do this DS/Poser war in this thread? The poor horse has suffered enough and the only thing this will do is get yet another thread lock. The topic deals with how Poser users can get more content, not which software is better and can do what.

Sorry Terrence I Cant control the predictable, emotional ,pavlovian reaction of some people who spring out of their myopic little box with the same tired "looka what me can do wit poser" prattle, at the mere mention of Daz studio and genesis.

I was speaking specifically to the suggestion by some that the way forward for poser is for SM to Retool poser to accept Native Genesis Figures & Content .

This assumes that there still exist some binary realtionship between Daz and the owners of poser ...there is not.

Thats is why I mentioned those other applications

Thier users are only simply taking advantage of industry standard formats to access Daz content

Some are easing the way with specially built plugins for auto IK rig setup and texture conversion to Native render nodes such as Arnold .

But still if there is to be any movement of DAZ content between apps the people using the incoming content via FBX,Alembic,MDD are responsible without any special realtionship between thier software makers and DAZ

I'm saying they should network with a group of vendors on making sure know the new features, and from that address any needs they have in making> poser content. Then those vendors and SM can disseminate that information into the community as standards for developing content. Note I'm not talking about a partnership for a 3rd party to make content, but a direct relationship between the two so that vendors get the most out of Poser and Poser includes the features that vendors need to compete.

"standards for developing content. " I had to repeat this part a second time because History has shown without some agreed upon standards you continue to fracture the content market in to various camps who's loyalty is based on personal popularity rather than a uniform standard that non partisan Vendors can get behind.

Antonias Faction had the right mindset of not tying their fortune to DAZ but they created a figure that had a very exotic rigging scheme that only those who were part of the Antonia "Faction" were willing to develop for.

A standard for MODERN non Daz poser content tacitly "enforced" By an official Endorsement or "certification" From the parent company would go a long way toward unifying future poser content around a Standard the utilizes the latest features.

Look at Reallusion. Now that they have thier own internal higher quality Figure creation suite They will actually financially subsidize new content creators as an incentive to get more vendors on board (Check their site for details)

No can I or anyone just run over to Reallusion with my own Clever ,Exotic figure and content schemes and regurgitate a stream of Nerdy Mcnerd technobabble as to why My content is "better" than the standard IClone content..and expect to become a Vendor???

Not happening..

I am not suggesting that SM $$ pay $$ people or become a 3D figure content company themselves but their "Absentee Landlord " Status is not helping matters.

My website

YouTube Channel

I'd rather not see this turn down the usual road so let's stick to the topic, ok? I really don't want to lock a thread that could be productive instead.

...... Kendra

There has been nothing productive in this thread for the last three pages or more. Just bashing back and forth. Where has all the Poser content gone? Away from this squabbling to sites where people get along and threads are productive and not reactive. You want DAZ content in Poser. Use FBX. It is supported by both softwares.

I don't see why you would consider this a none productive thread, obviously not every single comment might be. But the OP question is where have all the Poser content gone? And honestly a lot of the answer, at least in my opinion is related to the Genesis characters, Daz as such is of no importance in this discussion, it simply happens to be the software that the character where designed to be used with.

If you disregard Daz as the "competing" software to Poser, it doesn't really change anything as I see it. Because if Genesis had been developed for Poser a similar thread like this would most likely be found on the Daz forum. The Genesis characters are popular, because they are good models and a lot of people both vendors and users like to work with them. At least in my opinion its less related to software vs software, but more character vs character, which I think is reasonable to blame a lot of on SM, for not taking or understanding the importance of, when they release new Poser version. Im almost 100% sure, that had Poser 11 been released with Genesis quality characters, this thread would never have existed in the first place.

There have been several productive posts and a few that weren't that's why I wanted to get it back on track and I'd rather not lock it. I know it can be frustrating if you strictly use Poser and see a lot of Studio items but if you really look you'll find Poser too. Even if you have to go off site to find them, they're out there but Renderosity is always my go-to for Poser stuff.

I wasn't going to switch to studio, I planned to stay loyal to Poser and I'll admit it began to frustrate the heck out of me when it seemed like everything I liked was for Genesis or Studio. Then I delved into Studio and found I didn't have to switch, I could use whichever program fit whatever I was doing and whichever item I needed to use. Now if I see something I want I don't have to worry if its just for Studio or only for V4. Best of both worlds, imo.

...... Kendra

Kendra posted at 4:24PM Fri, 01 December 2017 - #4319095

There have been several productive posts and a few that weren't that's why I wanted to get it back on track and I'd rather not lock it. I know it can be frustrating if you strictly use Poser and see a lot of Studio items but if you really look you'll find Poser too. Even if you have to go off site to find them, they're out there but Renderosity is always my go-to for Poser stuff.

I wasn't going to switch to studio, I planned to stay loyal to Poser and I'll admit it began to frustrate the heck out of me when it seemed like everything I liked was for Genesis or Studio. Then I delved into Studio and found I didn't have to switch, I could use whichever program fit whatever I was doing and whichever item I needed to use. Now if I see something I want I don't have to worry if its just for Studio or only for V4. Best of both worlds, imo.

I get what you mean, Kendra. It's like when I used to come here every day to talk about thing you can or can't do in Poser. Never went to the Studio Forum because I didn't use Studio, so I let them do their thing I and I tried to do mine. But a lot of Studio users kept coming over to this forum and disrupting threads, and getting some, heck a lot of threads locked. So a lot of those users who used to come here went to other forums like Hivewire and RDNA, and I followed them. Oh I keep coming back every now and again, but really I went to the other forums and did a lot of my shopping at those other stores. I do a lot more of my learning on other forums like the SM forum, where, oddly enough, if you look around, a lot of the posters who want to be SOOOO productive and help Poser deal, aren't anywhere to be found.

But getting back to the topic, do you know why I created my Poser directory? To help people find Poser products in the online stores. It's still there, and a lot of it too. When I was searching for that product, one of the things I happened to notice, particularly here, but at a couple of other stores like CGBytes or Renderotica, was how those stores listed the products. Some stores would just throw everything into a category together, the figure didn't matter. Kind of like going to a store where you're shopping for a specific size of clothing, say, big men's sizes and all you can find are small and medium. Renderosity, I'm happy to say, isn't quite that bad. They're more like the store that puts all the Poser stuff at the back of the shelf behind the Genesis stuff or on the lower shelves, so you have to really search for what you're looking for. And it took me a little while to catch on to this trick, but I'd be looking for something for Poser in a marketplace search and on the page that comes up are ads for a similar product for another Genesis figure. Like I said, it took me a while to catch on to that one. i finally had to just put a caveat in my threads, that while i did try to find Poser only listings, because of the way they're listed in the stores, You may still have to wade through a lot of Genesis stuff to get to the Poser stuff.

So here's an example of what I'm on about. Just for the heck of it, I went to the market place and did a search for V4 and Poser 10 stuff. Did it come up? Yes. But at the top of the page, You ee these two ads for Daz Studio props and For a Genesis prop. There's a third ad for the G8 Female. And worst of all is NONE of these things will work in Poser. So why is it showing up in a Poser search?

Oh, and on the side of the page, which you can't see here, is another set of Promo pics saying "WHAT'S HOT", 7 of at least 8 products for Daz Studio or the G8 F.

My point again, is you can't buy it if you can't find it. and Renderosity ain't really showing it to us without a challenge.

Those ads are there because those vendors paid for the privilege for their ads to be displayed in those slots. I don't think you're going to have much success dictating where those paying ads go, unless you're willing to pay not to see them or you want to help poser vendors pay to get advertising on this site. That would be the solution to your complaint, but not how to get more content... nor is complaining about who posts where, all that's going to do is earn a thread lock, so I'd let that go as well.

Male_M3dia posted at 8:25AM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319148

Those ads are there because those vendors paid for the privilege for their ads to be displayed in those slots. I don't think you're going to have much success dictating where those paying ads go, unless you're willing to pay not to see them or you want to help poser vendors pay to get advertising on this site. That would be the solution to your complaint, but not how to get more content... nor is complaining about who posts where, all that's going to do is earn a thread lock, so I'd let that go as well.

Just trying to be constructive. Or is that just a one way street around here? And at least I'm on topic.

Actually staying on topic, has anyone sent any emails to Rafael Torres? He's been rather silent in the past few months, it may be interesting to see what his impressions on this aspect of the software would be and if he has any ideas.

Male_M3dia posted at 12:31PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319148

Those ads are there because those vendors paid for the privilege for their ads to be displayed in those slots. I don't think you're going to have much success dictating where those paying ads go, unless you're willing to pay not to see them or you want to help poser vendors pay to get advertising on this site. That would be the solution to your complaint, but not how to get more content... nor is complaining about who posts where, all that's going to do is earn a thread lock, so I'd let that go as well.

Well, since you brought it up, and I realize you were trying to be a smartass about it, but I'll answer you anyway. If that's the kind of service I'd get from Renderosity, I wouldn't waste my money advertising on this site. And I do mean "waste". If I'm shopping for POSER stuff, why would I want to see an ad about Daz Studio stuff? That's like listening to a Black gospel radio station and having them play commercials for the next Heavy Metal concert coming to town. How many ticket sales do you think the promoters are going to see from that ad buy? They would probably conclude, and rightly so, that it wasn't worth the money spent and not do it anymore.

It wasn't a smart answer, it's the truth. Those vendors paid for advertising to be used on the entire site, not just parts. And some people use both programs not just one, so it makes it worth the paying vendor's while to have their advertising cover all the bases. If a poser vendor pays for the advertising they will get the same treatment as well. Your example about radio stations is invalid because there are many types of contents available here, not just one. And even then, even on my subscription of SirrusXM they advertise content provided on their other channels, so they're going to let me know that they have a comedy station while I'm listening to my dance music. They announce their Christmas music channel over all their stations this time of year to to cover all their bases. The same goes with internet radio stations.

The actual name for this type of advertising is called "cross-promotion".

Male_M3dia posted at 2:06PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319172

It wasn't a smart answer, it's the truth. Those vendors paid for advertising to be used on the entire site, not just parts. And some people use both programs not just one, so it makes it worth the paying vendor's while to have their advertising cover all the bases. If a poser vendor pays for the advertising they will get the same treatment as well. Your example about radio stations is invalid because there are many types of contents available here, not just one. And even then, even on my subscription of SirrusXM they advertise content provided on their other channels, so they're going to let me know that they have a comedy station while I'm listening to my dance music. They announce their Christmas music channel over all their stations this time of year to to cover all their bases. The same goes with internet radio stations.

The actual name for this type of advertising is called "cross-promotion".

Apples and oranges, Terrence. Sirius XM is selling a subscription service so anyone who subscribes to that service or advertises on it knows what they're signing up for. Just like if I look at abc News, I can expect to see commercials for things I may or may not have a need for in the immediate future. Renderosity never asked me if it's alright if we ruin your shopping experience by putting ads of products in front of you that I know you're not looking for, and making it more frustrating for you to find the things that you are looking for. That frustration spills out into threads like this one. The OP was frustrated because he's looking for one thing and all that pops up is stuff he doesn't want. I'm seriously hoping it's not the intention of Renderosity to frustrate me and other customers from finding the items we ARE searching for by showing us stuff we aren't searching for. Just so they can make a quick buck. If it is, they can delete my account now so i can just move on. They might still make money, but at least it won't be anymore of mine.

Ultimately I don't think it's productive to analyze the advertising business Rendo has in place with paying vendors when it is a tool for all vendors to use to increase visibility of their products. Hopefully your last post wasn't addressed to me, as I've hit the ignore button so the needless arguing will not cause a thread lock, and we can move the conversation forward from here.

I did not realize some vendors pay for the location of their advertising. All this time I was blaming Rendo for DAZ items crawling into my Poser search terms.

Male_M3dia posted at 6:51PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319177

Ultimately I don't think it's productive to analyze the advertising business Rendo has in place with paying vendors when it is a tool for all vendors to use to increase visibility of their products. Hopefully your last post wasn't addressed to me, as I've hit the ignore button so the needless arguing will not cause a thread lock, and we can move the conversation forward from here.

My bad. I forgot it's only productive when everyone criticizes the way Poser and SM do things. Everybody else is perfect.

I see ads for Poser content too, just not nearly as many because there isn't as much poser content being made these days. The ad space still has to be filled with something. I'd rather see ads for DS content than I would to see ads for completely unrelated stuff like a blender on amazon. And a lot of DS stuff can be converted to Poser, so its still relevant. There was an ad for Flink's winter products just recently - that's a Poser item.

If you want to filter by only Poser content then you can do that by going to Browse > Only Poser. That doesn't control the ad space though, and it doesn't need to. If there was more Poser specific content being made then there would be more ads for it. Most people are not so anti-daz that they get triggered by seeing ads for its content. This also isn't a Poser-only site. It's a content site that sells a lot of stuff, not just for Poser and DS but other stuff like brushes for photoshop and static models for other 3D applications. And like all smart businesses, they're going to promote most heavily the stuff that is most popular.

AmbientShade posted at 8:47PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319194

I see ads for Poser content too, just not nearly as many because there isn't as much poser content being made these days. The ad space still has to be filled with something. I'd rather see ads for DS content than I would to see ads for completely unrelated stuff like a blender on amazon. And a lot of DS stuff can be converted to Poser, so its still relevant. There was an ad for Flink's winter products just recently - that's a Poser item.

If you want to filter by only Poser content then you can do that by going to Browse > Only Poser. That doesn't control the ad space though, and it doesn't need to. If there was more Poser specific content being made then there would be more ads for it. Most people are not so anti-daz that they get triggered by seeing ads for its content. This also isn't a Poser-only site. It's a content site that sells a lot of stuff, not just for Poser and DS but other stuff like brushes for photoshop and static models for other 3D applications. And like all smart businesses, they're going to promote most heavily the stuff that is most popular.

No one said it was a Poser- only site. That much is evident by the amount of ads I have to wade through to find Poser content. I'm not even telling or suggesting that Renderosity cut back on ads. Just that they make some adjustments towards who the ads are targeted to. At least that way, the ads will be more effective because they're reaching people who want to see them and may actually have some benefit from seeing them. It will also benefit the vendors who buy the ads because their ads will be appearing in front of people who WANT to see them. Or is that a problem?

EClark1894 posted at 9:26PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319198

No one said it was a Poser- only site. That much is evident by the amount of ads I have to wade through to find Poser content. I'm not even telling or suggesting that Renderosity cut back on ads. Just that they make some adjustments towards who the ads are targeted to. At least that way, the ads will be more effective because they're reaching people who want to see them and may actually have some benefit from seeing them. It will also benefit the vendors who buy the ads because their ads will be appearing in front of people who WANT to see them. Or is that a problem?

I dont think the site is set up for targeted ad campaigns. It would require them to keep track of what everybody searches and buys and tailor the ads to match it, or have people fill out questionnaires to know what kinds of ads they want to see. Plus if you're only advertising to current customers then how are you going to attract new customers? Showing Poser users attractive content for DS can help increase sales of DS content. And if Poser content vendors aren't buying as many ads as DS content vendors are buying then what would they put in the ad spaces? It doesn't appear that ads are paid for per view or per click. Seems they just run for a set period of time regardless of who sees them or how many times they're seen. I doubt seriously that there are that many people who are devout Poser-only users for it to be worth the cost and effort to tailor ads so specifically to each person's needs. This is probably an issue that would be better addressed to the market place customer support anyway.

It's only a problem if you have a business to run.

Earl tbh, Renderosity have bent over backwards over the last few years to facilitate customers with a preference for Poser content. Not that their efforts have been greatly welcomed by that same Poser community who now seem to spend most of their time between the official Smith Micro Poser site with it's (Content Paradise Store) and the Hivewire3D site which was formed by former Daz 3D staff.

I mean do you really think the reason that the OP cannot find as much Poser content these days is that it's all on the back shelf or they can't scroll past a few adverts at the top of the page, which are clearly labelled as "Sponsored Ad's"? Or is it possible that the Poser content market is currently in a decline phase? Could that be the reason why the majority of adverts are for DS products? Why the 'What's Hot!" side bar is full of DS products?

Honestly, I have never heard a DS member demand to have anyone who occasionally opened Poser removed from the DS forums here. Never heard a DS user clamouring for Renderosity to invest in drop down options which separates the market into Poser/DS. Never heard DS users complaining that they're tired of seeing products for Superfly only to find they won't work with DS and that they should therefore be removed from their sight.

Earl tbh sometimes I think this kind of stuff is why the Poser platform is in the position it currently is. It reminds of people arguing about what color the blinds should be changed to, while the building burns down around them.

AmbientShade posted at 8:58PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319201

EClark1894 posted at 9:26PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319198

No one said it was a Poser- only site. That much is evident by the amount of ads I have to wade through to find Poser content. I'm not even telling or suggesting that Renderosity cut back on ads. Just that they make some adjustments towards who the ads are targeted to. At least that way, the ads will be more effective because they're reaching people who want to see them and may actually have some benefit from seeing them. It will also benefit the vendors who buy the ads because their ads will be appearing in front of people who WANT to see them. Or is that a problem?

I dont think the site is set up for targeted ad campaigns. It would require them to keep track of what everybody searches and buys and tailor the ads to match it, or have people fill out questionnaires to know what kinds of ads they want to see. Plus if you're only advertising to current customers then how are you going to attract new customers? Showing Poser users attractive content for DS can help increase sales of DS content. And if Poser content vendors aren't buying as many ads as DS content vendors are buying then what would they put in the ad spaces? It doesn't appear that ads are paid for per view or per click. Seems they just run for a set period of time regardless of who sees them or how many times they're seen. I doubt seriously that there are that many people who are devout Poser-only users for it to be worth the cost and effort to tailor ads so specifically to each person's needs. This is probably an issue that would be better addressed to the market place customer support anyway. I did mention it in the Marketplace. It was ignored. This thread was in the Marketplace. It was moved.

Razor42 posted at 9:04PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319202

It's only a problem if you have a business to run.

Earl tbh, Renderosity have bent over backwards over the last few years to facilitate customers with a preference for Poser content. Not that their efforts have been greatly welcomed by that same Poser community who now seem to spend most of their time between the official Smith Micro Poser site with it's (Content Paradise Store) and the Hivewire3D site which was formed by former Daz 3D staff.

I mean do you really think the reason that the OP cannot find as much Poser content these days is that it's all on the back shelf or they can't scroll past a few adverts at the top of the page, which are clearly labelled as "Sponsored Ad's"? Or is it possible that the Poser content market is currently in a decline phase? Could that be the reason why the majority of adverts are for DS products? Why the 'What's Hot!" side bar is full of DS products?

Honestly, I have never heard a DS member demand to have anyone who occasionally opened Poser removed from the DS forums here. Never heard a DS user clamouring for Renderosity to invest in drop down options which separates the market into Poser/DS. Never heard DS users complaining that they're tired of seeing products for Superfly only to find they won't work with DS and that they should therefore be removed from their sight.

Earl tbh sometimes I think this kind of stuff is why the Poser platform is in the position it currently is. It reminds of people arguing about what color the blinds should be changed to, while the building burns down around them.

Okay, I'm getting the message loud and clear. Shut up, sit down and buy what we tell you. Blender is looking better all the time. Oh and there's a reason why I spend most of my time now at Hivewire and the SM Forum. I used to spend that time here. Used to.

No one is saying your suggestions are not valid or that you need to buy anything unless you want to. But other members also have a right to debate the merits or issues of the suggestions.

It seems that the answer is never that the issue lies with the fact that demand for Poser content is down compared to years ago, which is having an ongoing effect on the Poser community across the spectrum. It always seems to fall squarely on Renderosity needing to spend time and money in implementing a protective type of system for Poserphiles. And no matter what they do it just doesn't seem to be enough.

I use Blender almost daily, its a great app. I'm not really sure how it replaces DS or Poser though tbh.

EClark1849 posted at 10:50PM Sat, 02 December 2017 - #4319203

I did mention it in the Marketplace. It was ignored. This thread was in the Marketplace. It was moved.

Well that answers it then.

Thing is, Renderosity is a business, and in order for them to stay in business they have to follow the trends of what the majority of their customers are buying. And lately that trend is DS content. Personally I'm not interested in skimpwear, or morphs to make females parts ginormous, and it's a bit irritating that 90% of what I see every time I open the store page is exactly that. But I don't fault the site owners for that because they can't force vendors to make anything they don't want to make, and they have to put out there what sells the most. So I just scroll past all that and focus on the stuff that looks cool or is closer to what I'm looking for. I don't have a Poser-only or DS-only mindset though, so I'm not limited to either one. If I see something that fits my needs and it is DS only then I can still use it because I use both apps. And I make content in both apps. I do spend more time with Poser but lately I've been playing with DS's Dforce features and like it a lot. So that's translated to me searching the stores for content that makes use of it. So far there isn't much but it still gives me ideas for stuff I want to do with my own content. And it's really not that difficult to convert content from DS to Poser. Especially if its just clothing. Converting the figures is a bit more complicated, but if there's an outfit that you really wish was made for M4 for Poser, then it can be converted to Poser if you really want it to be. Maybe if more people learned how to do that then there would be less arguing.

// It doesn't appear that ads are paid for per view or per click. Seems they just run for a set period of time regardless of who sees them or how many times they're seen. I doubt seriously that there are that many people who are devout Poser-only users for it to be worth the cost and effort to tailor ads so specifically to each person's needs. This is probably an issue that would be better addressed to the market place customer support anyway. I did mention it in the Marketplace. It was ignored. This thread was in the Marketplace. It was moved. //

There are different types of ads, however the most common ones used by vendors are based on impressions (views) as far as I know, just to clear that up.

In regards to Poser vs DS content. I think you have to take into account that Poser haven't had any new viable characters (Genesis popularity) for a long time. So if you filter away Genesis content, maybe the difference is not as big as people might think. Here I mean how many props etc are DS or Poser only for instant? When Project E is finish and released this might very well changed. At least to me to make any fair comparison you would have to take that into account. As it would be the same as people complaining why there are no content for some of the older Poser figures. Basically at the moment V4 and M4 are still as far as im concerned the most popular characters for Poser. but they are fairly old, but they survive because they are very good, which is simply not the case with most, if not all the latest characters released with Poser, and again as stated earlier a lot of that can be blamed on SM, i think.

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3-d-c posted at 11:17PM Sat, 09 December 2017 - #4307691

I still do poser exclusive. .. so check out my store too ;) https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?uid=502620

I have some of your stuff. It's very nice, even though I've not used in anything as such yet. I have ideas for pictures, and spotted that you do the props needed. So one day, you'll hopefully see a credit.

AmbientShade posted at 11:21AM Sun, 10 December 2017 - #4319207

And it's really not that difficult to convert content from DS to Poser. Especially if its just clothing. Converting the figures is a bit more complicated, but if there's an outfit that you really wish was made for M4 for Poser, then it can be converted to Poser if you really want it to be. Maybe if more people learned how to do that then there would be less arguing.

It's very easy AmbientShade - but I'd point out that those of us who do and advocate that are constantly shouted down in the Poser forums by DS users (or DAZ exclusive vendors, in the case of Male3dia).

ssgbryan posted at 1:40PM Sun, 10 December 2017 - #4319862

AmbientShade posted at 11:21AM Sun, 10 December 2017 - #4319207

And it's really not that difficult to convert content from DS to Poser. Especially if its just clothing. Converting the figures is a bit more complicated, but if there's an outfit that you really wish was made for M4 for Poser, then it can be converted to Poser if you really want it to be. Maybe if more people learned how to do that then there would be less arguing.

It's very easy AmbientShade - but I'd point out that those of us who do and advocate that are constantly shouted down in the Poser forums by DS users (or DAZ exclusive vendors, in the case of Male3dia).

Please provide the link of me shouting you down, please. Sorry, but you won't find it. But, you will find posts of me being falsely attacked. This post in particular and twice in this thread. In the first instance my last post was when this thread marketplace support forum before the thread was moved here; and I reported that instance to the mods. I'm not understanding why I'm being called out again.

This is exactly why threads get locked. While I report you again in this thread for this post, I'm going to ask you to refrain from this behavior in the future. They're not helpful and very unproductive. A good conversation can't be had without some people starting software wars and personal attacks, then trying to blame it on people that aren't even participating.

And if someone doesn't like looking at posts, the ignore button is a handy tool to solve that.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Where has all the Poser content gone?