Dave-So opened this issue on Jun 18, 2017 · 133 posts
Dave-So posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 9:19 AM
First, I need to say this..and please dont block it.
how can a meaningful discussion be had on a topic when its blocked, even priot to anything bad being said? Minority Report all over again.
I think the discussion on Poser v DAZ is legitimate. As a long time Poser user, I feel the pain, as more and more vendors fall into the DAZ marketing scheme..and yes, it is all about the profit margin. Unfortunate that, as sometimes loyalty of a hobby is essential.
I have been on this site since its inception, before it was even called Renderosity. There have been many changes over the years. The first iteration was actually just free items being passed around. It slowly became a business. There was a time DAZ did not exist. Its evolution has been a very interesting and rewarding path for all of us... especially Poser users.
Poser users that are sticking to a great program could learn more modeling techniques, texturing, etc, and create our own content, improve existing things, and so forth.
Content availability has been an ongoing problem. How many times have people asked for specific items, but they were not forthcoming as the demand was not there for them? aka..not able to bring in revenue?
Its pretty circular, isnt it. There never has been much demand for items for the stock Poser figures. Why not? If we, as Poser users, supported them, perhaps Poser's future would be much brighter.
In the end, its all about creating art, isn't it? What tools do you feel most comfortable with. The fact Poser is losing a lot of vendor support does not make it obsolete. I have seen a lot of great art made with even the early Poser figures. The lack of Poser support is actually a great thing if you look at it as an opportunity to refine your skills. The make art button is great, but perhaps this can kindle a better understanding of photoshop, paint shop pro, etc. An opportunity to learn to make your own clothes, models, etc.
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
adzan posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 10:13 AM
The problem is we've been having the same discussion since Daz Studio was first released in what 2005? and many of us foresaw that daz would split the market, we were called mad and troublemakers at the time by the way lol, and absolutely nothing has changed - it's still the same things being said.
Daz aren't going to give Poser a new figure so it will have to come from someone else but the community is to divided - to many people are heavily invested in Victoria 4 to support a new figure like Dawn - and their isn't much else at the moment. Personally I really think Victoria 4 should be put out to pasture somewhere but until a New Poser figure comes along that's much better it won't happen lol.
Unfortunately, merchants and community members have made it quite clear they don't like the Poser figures, so I don't think that will change.
Perhaps Posers future doesn't lay with the stores but with the community forums of old. who knows
Khai-J-Bach posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 10:59 AM
thing is, so many of these threads get derailed and turned into flame threads
don't blame the mods for locking them, blame the users.
patorak3d posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 11:41 AM
Hopefully this thread won't turn into a flame war and get locked, because this is something that the Poser community needs to talk about.
SamTherapy posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 12:50 PM
I've said this time and again, the content you already have is not going to go bad. You can use it forever - within the limits of whatever version of Poser you're using - and it will still function as it used to, years down the line.
New stuff... well, I ain't abandoning Poser any time soon. Read that as "ever". I may not be the most prolific but at least I'll still turn stuff out now and again.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
hornet3d posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 12:55 PM Online Now!
patorak3d posted at 6:38PM Sun, 18 June 2017 - #4307814
Hopefully this thread won't turn into a flame war and get locked, because this is something that the Poser community needs to talk about.
That would be my hope too. In fairness I was surprised how long the last thread on this subject ran and but once it reaches the 'Mine is bigger than yours' or 'I never said that - yes you did - no I didn't' realm the value is lost.
There are some valid points to be made, for instance elsewhere it is stated that Dawn will not work in Poser, well clearly no one told my version of dawn that is the case as it had been working in my 2014 version of Poser for a couple of years now. Not only that but most of the time she is wearing V4 clothes so my investment is not lost. I did not challenge that statement in that forum because, quite frankly, I felt no one wanted to listen and it would just have turned into another locked thread.
I couldn't agree more that lack of vendor support does not make Poser obsolete and I also feel the vast number of Poser users could learn so much more about it that would enrich their art. For that to happen there has to be a place where there can be an open and honest discussion of what is available at this point in time. This particularly true when recent changes at SM suggest it might be some time before Poser gains any new capability.
The problem has always been that, with one notable exception, when Poser is discussed in forums the subject quickly turns to how much bigger and better DS is and the thread gets locked. Conspiracy Theorist will see this as the whole reason Poser is struggling for vendor support. My view........really could not comment, far to busy using figures to create renders in Poser that some insist in not possible and please me far more then V4 ever did.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
Boni posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 2:03 PM
I will keep this up ... but please know ... at the first sign of trashing one program over the other this will be locked. Take care and be constructive folks. Thank you.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
patorak3d posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 2:17 PM
Thank you Boni.
I heard Dawn was a good figure. i'm trying to remember the first independent figures; was it Cherry Doll, Maya Doll, the zygote Mil figures, or perhaps some I am forgetting.
Hi Sam. Glad to see you are on board.
SamTherapy posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 2:48 PM
patorak3d posted at 8:47PM Sun, 18 June 2017 - #4307834
Thank you Boni.
I heard Dawn was a good figure. i'm trying to remember the first independent figures; was it Cherry Doll, Maya Doll, the zygote Mil figures, or perhaps some I am forgetting.
Hi Sam. Glad to see you are on board.
Hey, Pat. Good to read you, mate.
I think the Zygote Victoria was the first. Maya Doll and Cherry Anime came along some time later.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
ssgbryan posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 3:14 PM
[patorak3d]
I heard Dawn was a good figure. i'm trying to remember the first independent figures; was it Cherry Doll, Maya Doll, the zygote Mil figures, or perhaps some I am forgetting.
Hi Sam. Glad to see you are on board.
You heard correctly.
Dawn (and Dusk) ARE good figures. They stumbled out of the gate with a lack of morph sets (since corrected).
They are becoming my go-to figures. They have quite a few characters for them, and I get better results in the fitting room with them than I do with DAZ figures.
pappy411 posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 4:15 PM
I was a vendor for many years at Renderosity with 99% poser objects and dynamic clothing. Had a thriving business. Sales started falling off and as a result, I closed the store. The time and effort in creating new products was not worth it with the meager return.
During the slumping period I received many requests to make my products Daz compatible.
The statement I hear many times is that Poser is dying and it is Daz fault. These emails sort of indicate that Poser isn't dying because of Daz, it is because the Poser faithful are falling away in favor of Daz. Why are vendors more and more creating for DAZ, and creating less for Poser? Less sales are realized for Poser products.
Support the vendors who are still creating for Poser and you will not have to say, "Why aren't many vendors making Poser products anymore."
Pappy
adzan posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 4:53 PM
pappy411 posted at 4:29PM Sun, 18 June 2017 - #4307849
Why are vendors more and more creating for DAZ, and creating less for Poser? Less sales are realized for Poser products.
Pappy
This argument has been used for many years - but it was a self for filling prophecy.
If you don't have a Poser figure that the vendors will create for the customer won't buy, if the customer won't buy the vendors don't create.
and
If a store drops support for Poser to a bare minimum, then Poser items won't sell because you can't buy what isn't available. And then the store will tell you that Poser items don't sell (yep that happens)
wolf359 posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 5:24 PM
This^
If you really want liberate yourself from what "the market" decides to support then I suggest you do what I and many others have done.
LEARN TO CREATE CLOTHING MODELS!!!!
In so doing, you not only insure that will always have unique,one off original clothing content for your figures, But you are "future proofed" against the forced obsolesence imposed by the release of yet another named & numbered Model that causes the immediate abondonment of the previous generation by the almighty providers.
Case in point(and please no DAZ bashing!!!!) I prefer the Genesis 2 figures. They accept all of my vast library of Character motions with little to no adjustments. And I spent months re-creating my CG selfclone with the Genesis 2 Male ,finally adandoning my aged Mike 2 self clone.
Genesis 2 is Dead!!! has no future for the content makers and Genesis 3 will soon follow now that the new Genesis is released
The almighty providers will follow the money. Lovely people have to eat and pay for housing and transportation etc. and at least they are selling you an honest,take it or leave it, product they are creating instead of just stealing your wealth like banks& insurance companies.
Trust me the freedom that comes from being your own content creator is quite satisfying as you always get exactly what you want
The attached pic is my new sportswear set for my preferred figure
the Genesis 2 male.
Clothing ,watch ,ring smartphone & duffel bag created by Me!! 
There are many ways to light Europe.!
wolf359 posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 5:31 PM
wolf359 posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 5:37 PM
And the impending abandonment of the Genesis 3 models is of no concern to me either "The Administrator" for the G3 male
Nails60 posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 5:41 PM
I've only been using poser for about two and a half years, but already my V4 and M4 libraries are pretty full. I don't want to buy anymore typical V4 characters that just have different makeups and a few tattoos or whatever, and I don't want to buy more skimpy fantasy outfits or underwear for her. I'm not saying I never buy anything for V4 anymore but it has to be different, for example Cybertenko's Russian regulator. But I do buy products for other poser figures, which now means Dawn, a few things for Pauline and the odd item for Miki4. (I'm discounting male figures as anything for these tends to be a rarity. ) The point I'm trying to make is that I think the market for V4/M4 amongst poser users is pretty saturated, and so of course sales will drop off. But there is an understandable short termism amongst vendors, quite naturally as they want a reasonable reward for their labours. This is what drives the vicious circle of there is little content for a figure, therefor it is hardly used, therefor no-one wants to get involved making content for it. Dawn is finally overcoming this thanks to ardent support by her creator. But SM doesn't support its figures in the same way. Perhaps one or more of the new figures we are being promised for poser by various creators will get sufficient vendor support and take off, but this might depend on vendors being willing to make less initially while support for the figure develops both amongst users and vendors. But as a Poser user I have more stuff in my runtimes already than I'm ever likely to use as well as over 1000dollars worth of stuff in various wish lists, so I'm going to be usng Poser for a long-time yet.
SamTherapy posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 5:45 PM
wolf359 posted at 11:45PM Sun, 18 June 2017 - #4307866
And the impending abandonment of the Genesis 3 models is of no concern to me either "The Administrator" for the G3 male
Really like the look of this. Lex Luthor hitting the gym.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
wolf359 posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 5:51 PM
SamTherapy posted at 5:51PM Sun, 18 June 2017 - #4307869
wolf359 posted at 11:45PM Sun, 18 June 2017 - #4307866
And the impending abandonment of the Genesis 3 models is of no concern to me either "The Administrator" for the G3 male
Really like the look of this. Lex Luthor hitting the gym.
Thanks Sam 
Dave-So posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 8:13 PM
I find new Poser users every once in awhile, and I'm not sure where this comes from, probably lack of imitative somewhat of the new user, but they have no idea there are secondary market items for Poser at all. I point them here, and to my friends store now closed. I rarely visit the poser form at SM, but it seemed to be kicking up pretty good at the beginning.
Also I think it somewhat important to remember that Poser was originally to be used as a pose-able computer dummy, just like those wood ones you can pose. I had P1 but cant even remember if it had clothes ... I think it did, but even then, there was much more 2D work being applied than actually rendering completed scenes.
That is a huge tool if you can learn to do it, and there are many many 2d brushes, etc to assist. Materials, and so forth. I remember using some of the hjair brushes way back. Awesomeness :)
Back to the market..the market, or Poser dedicated stores, has shrunk a lot over the years as well. For a bit there were a ton of them, but slowly DAZ ate into the market.
Question: is it not possible, even with G3 and below figures to set them up in DS and then export as OBJ, import into Poser? I would think pretty much all the stuff, including Stonemason's great products. Or not? If so, that in itself opens up a lot of possibilities.
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
Kazam561 posted Sun, 18 June 2017 at 10:51 PM
I've never created clothing for Poser or Daz Studio. I've been told by vendors that it's easier to create clothing in D/s. I kind of wish somebody would put up a side by side comparison of what the differences are for creating clothing between the two programs. I have exported D/S clothing and successfully imported it without DSON (except some long sleeve outfits seem to have issues on converting from G3 to V4). Would Poser be better if the next version included a modelling program in it's next distribution? At one time Shade3d (which was lovely for modelling and creating things for Poser) and Poser were owned by the same company. It seems like a natural step for both Poser and D/S to start to include detailed modelling tools for content creation. Right now both have lots of pieces of tools for content creation.
*edited to add: It is possible to export G3's from D/S and then import to Poser. The really big issue is with materials, especially large sets, and handling so many different textures.
The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.
-renapd- posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 2:25 AM Site Admin
I' m afraid it IS true that vendors abandoned Poser for DS.. it has nothing to do with the programs.
It is also true that in the summer of the last site re-design.. many members went away for a few months - some even longer. It was about the same time that G3 came around. Vendors revenue went down dramatically those first months and the majority of them saw DS as their way out - new figure, more new users.
Personally I chose to endure the low income for a few months and stick to what I love and know best. In the long run my choice was justified. My store is thriving and I do not have a single DS product. So to me it's clear that Poser users have still lots of choices as many other vendors are like me or work both software. The marketplace is flooded with fantastic Poser content of the past ten years!
There's a huge variety of Poser content in RMP to explore, new items too! So allow me to remind you something we all seem to forget out of habit...
Always click Marketplace/NEW POSER... not what's new like you were used to all these years!.
If you are 100% Poser like me, it's the only way to avoid the many pages of DS content that means nothing to you.. no more tedious sorting out through pages but only products that work great in the software you love! You'll be surprised how many things have passed by your attention just because they were hidden among DS content that you didn't have the tolerance to seek and explore thumbnail by thumbnail. I know how frustrating that was, this is why I fought for this option and I'm glad it's been implemented! :)
I also agree that I don't need another tight outfit or sexy bodysuit for V4.. but I'm grateful I have an endless choice of fantasy and era outfits that no new DS figure will ever get the chance to have as none will stick around for ten years to get all that tremendous support that V4 got - concerning morphs, wardrobe, hair, accessories, all sorts of outfits that one might need or imagine for any kind of specific renders.
I think that the most productive way to think for Pose users at the moment is to explore the marketplace vendor by vendor.. get the chance to know what each one has to offer - even those that now do DS they used to create for many years Poser content... you'll be surprised how many wonderful things have by-passed your attention and didn't even know they existed! :)
And just remember... Marketplace/New Poser... that's all you need to embark to that journey that I'm sure won't disappoint you! :)
Rena
hornet3d posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 4:19 AM Online Now!
patorak3d posted at 10:17AM Mon, 19 June 2017 - #4307834
Thank you Boni.
I heard Dawn was a good figure. i'm trying to remember the first independent figures; was it Cherry Doll, Maya Doll, the zygote Mil figures, or perhaps some I am forgetting.
Hi Sam. Glad to see you are on board.
I will leave it for others to decide if the figure 'works' in Poser.
This is a Dawn SE based character wearing a V4 dynamic shirt.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
hornet3d posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 4:21 AM Online Now!
And for expressions
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
hornet3d posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 4:38 AM Online Now!
I don't do nudes but a bit of bending.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
tonyvilters posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 5:13 AM
Don't forget Dave-So's initial remark. => In the beginning, there "ONLY" was Poser, and it was seen as a GREAT HOBBY 3D application.
All hobby artists started sharing what they made for FREE. => Times were great, and the user base grew.
Then came the problem. Some wanted to make money and started selling.
The "HOBBY" became a business. => And with business, the competition started at all levels. => Mine is better then yours, I sell more then you, I make more money then you, and so on..
Some took the opportunity to start a store to make even more money.
Economy took over the "hobby".
Not only for content, but later on also for the "newer" apps like DS and i-clone, and others.
There are those that still see "3D art" as a fine hobby and there are those that are more interested in paying the bills, and making even more money.
hornet3d posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 6:32 AM Online Now!
tonyvilters posted at 12:29PM Mon, 19 June 2017 - #4307914
Don't forget Dave-So's initial remark. => In the beginning, there "ONLY" was Poser, and it was seen as a GREAT HOBBY 3D application.
All hobby artists started sharing what they made for FREE. => Times were great, and the user base grew.
Then came the problem. Some wanted to make money and started selling.
The "HOBBY" became a business. => And with business, the competition started at all levels. => Mine is better then yours, I sell more then you, I make more money then you, and so on..
Some took the opportunity to start a store to make even more money.
Economy took over the "hobby".
Not only for content, but later on also for the "newer" apps like DS and i-clone, and others.
There are those that still see "3D art" as a fine hobby and there are those that are more interested in paying the bills, and making even more money.
I take your point, even free share sites are now opening up stores so the trend continues. That said there are still a lot of users making stuff for free and even more making their own content, which begs the question 'when is program seen as being obsolete'? Is it when vendors can no longer make a profit from it or when people stop using it to create art?
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
tonyvilters posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 7:39 AM
Being here from Poser1, I see myself as "an old timer". Yes, I'v seen it all come and go.
From the WHAW, what is this???? To the initial free stuff overflow, to the hobby 3D artists, to where we "unfortunately" are fighting now.
Poser is , and always will be a GREAT app. Digital content does not age. It's only shortcomings where the default figures.
The market took over with better figures, and everybody wants to be in bed with, and follows the hottest chick blindfolded.
let's be honest: Good art, while very difficult to make, does not sell itself. At most, it can make it's creator proud.
Sex sells. => Hence that's why most "hot items" are rather slutty items. LOL.
Dave-So posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 7:55 AM
In reality, I doubt any program would ever go totally obsolete as long as users were getting out of it what they wanted. It would be possible to still use PSP v1 if it would run on current systems, for instance, and back then, a lot of folks were putting out some fabulous art. ALL of the programs have limitations, and all of them have work arounds.
Its all in each individuals creativity and how much they want to learn. The tools are in our hands. We just need to use them.
MODELING FOR POSER: There are tons of modelers. SILO A new version just came out recently 2.4 beta, so its still in the loop. Hexagon ..way cheap at DAZ, as well as Carrara @ DAZ which during a sale I pcked up for $3. Free Blender ... etc etc ..plus a ton of high end programs.
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
Dave-So posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 7:59 AM
tonyvilters posted at 7:56AM Mon, 19 June 2017 - #4307919
Being here from Poser1, I see myself as "an old timer". Yes, I'v seen it all come and go.
From the WHAW, what is this???? To the initial free stuff overflow, to the hobby 3D artists, to where we "unfortunately" are fighting now.
Poser is , and always will be a GREAT app. Digital content does not age. It's only shortcomings where the default figures.
The market took over with better figures, and everybody wants to be in bed with, and follows the hottest chick blindfolded.
let's be honest: Good art, while very difficult to make, does not sell itself. At most, it can make it's creator proud.
Sex sells. => Hence that's why most "hot items" are rather slutty items. LOL.
LOL ... I sort of glaze over most of the "slutwear" anymore. One of the items I always wanted were real life clothing. worn, battered, torn, dirty, and even the clean stuff. Shirts, jeans, etc. There are tons of tight, short, cleavage revealing, lingerie to last for 500 years :) But it obviously sells.
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
Dave-So posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 8:03 AM
Phil Cook had a bunch of great simple Python apps to design clothing, hair, and a bunch of stuff.
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
wolf359 posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 8:20 AM
"Don't forget Dave-So's initial remark. => In the beginning, there "ONLY" was Poser, and it was seen as a GREAT HOBBY 3D application. All hobby artists started sharing what they made for FREE. => Times were great, and the user base grew."
Competition and financial interests are the main drivers of innovation and technological advancement. Even the mighty Blender is funded by the $$$solicitations $$ of the Blender foundation.
It may be soothing ,for some, to sit and feel nostalgic about the past when poser was just a quaint little small community hobbiest app.
But it is frankly delusional to think that poser ,the application, would have all of the features it has today if somehow stayed "Pure" from monied interests.
People with advanced knowledge that adds value to a product should be paid for their work.
The content producers left because they were provided with standardized, user friendly rigging tools in the other program. BEFORE the "fitting room" was introduced. That period of time where there was the transfer utility vs the various different ways to rig for poser, was the decisive factor for many.
And let not forget the V4/M4 legacy catalogue factor either. Genesis 1 could wear ALL of Mike&Vicky's Clothing and skin maps by default from day one with all body morph transferred automaticly. None of the poser native or third party figure had this advantage and depended on paid third party "converters" that may or may not have supported them.
No promises of an "amazing" 20 something looking Northern European white girl poser figure is going to overcome these systematic challenges.
adzan posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 9:50 AM
wolf359 posted at 8:48AM Mon, 19 June 2017 - #4307925
The content producers left because they were provided with standardized, user friendly rigging tools in the other program. BEFORE the "fitting room" was introduced. That period of time where there was the transfer utility vs the various different ways to rig for poser, was the decisive factor for many.
hmm, even before the "fitting room", getting a rig into clothing and setting it up really isn't that difficult, I'm comfortable rigging in both software but can still set up a basic rig with the groups I want quicker in Poser than in DS.
Yea converting used to be fun in Poser we had - Wardrobe Wizard, CrossDresser, Morphing Clothes and a few other fun little tools and scripts.
Didn't one of those clothing conversion utility creators help code the Daz Studio transfer utility thing?
And let not forget the V4/M4 legacy catalogue factor either. Genesis 1 could wear ALL of Mike&Vicky's Clothing and skin maps by default from day one with all body morph transferred automaticly. None of the poser native or third party figure had this advantage and depended on paid third party "converters" that may or may not have supported them.
The code for the Poser DSON plugin is managed by Daz so improved legacy support for V4 and M4 on Genesis would be up to Daz3D.
I'm sure if Daz3D had made a native Poser version of the Genesis figure at the time more Poser user would have continued to support their store.
Daz3D pretty much only have legacy support for Poser users now - most of us are looking for the future not the past
EClark1894 posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 10:02 AM
adzan posted at 10:54AM Mon, 19 June 2017 - #4307807
The problem is we've been having the same discussion since Daz Studio was first released in what 2005? and many of us foresaw that daz would split the market, we were called mad and troublemakers at the time by the way lol, and absolutely nothing has changed - it's still the same things being said.
Daz aren't going to give Poser a new figure so it will have to come from someone else but the community is to divided - to many people are heavily invested in Victoria 4 to support a new figure like Dawn - and their isn't much else at the moment. Personally I really think Victoria 4 should be put out to pasture somewhere but until a New Poser figure comes along that's much better it won't happen lol.
Unfortunately, merchants and community members have made it quite clear they don't like the Poser figures, so I don't think that will change.
Perhaps Posers future doesn't lay with the stores but with the community forums of old. who knows
If you've seen the long running thread I started a couple of years ago, you'll see that V4 isn't going anywhere. Furthermore, Poser continues to cut it's own throat, though not intentionally, with it's "backwards compatibility at all costs!" creedo. The clothes that you can fit to any figure improvements are great except the figure everyone is using to fit clothes to is V4.
wolf359 posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 11:01 AM
"hmm, even before the "fitting room", getting a rig into clothing and setting it up really isn't that difficult, I'm comfortable rigging in both software but can still set up a basic rig with the groups I want quicker in Poser than in DS."
If it is that easy for poser where are all of the new poser content creators?
For me in DS it is Make & detail model in C4D from my 6000 face base Dev mesh suit (pictured below) Export to Daz studio
Load target figure
launch transfer utility
choose clothing type from drop down (Shirt,pants, full body, etc) hit OK. Done!! I have fully functional conformer with all figure morphs active less than 10 second seconds , after export from C4D.
Save to library
"Daz3D pretty much only have legacy support for Poser users now - most of us are looking for the future not the past"
You are wise look to the future
Yet the 11 year old V4 is the most supported figure by
the remaining poser content providers... convince them.
Not Me. 
adzan posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 11:08 AM
EClark1894 posted at 10:36AM Mon, 19 June 2017 - #4307939
adzan posted at 10:54AM Mon, 19 June 2017 - #4307807
The problem is we've been having the same discussion since Daz Studio was first released in what 2005? and many of us foresaw that daz would split the market, we were called mad and troublemakers at the time by the way lol, and absolutely nothing has changed - it's still the same things being said.
Daz aren't going to give Poser a new figure so it will have to come from someone else but the community is to divided - to many people are heavily invested in Victoria 4 to support a new figure like Dawn - and their isn't much else at the moment. Personally I really think Victoria 4 should be put out to pasture somewhere but until a New Poser figure comes along that's much better it won't happen lol.
Unfortunately, merchants and community members have made it quite clear they don't like the Poser figures, so I don't think that will change.
Perhaps Posers future doesn't lay with the stores but with the community forums of old. who knows
If you've seen the long running thread I started a couple of years ago, you'll see that V4 isn't going anywhere. Furthermore, Poser continues to cut it's own throat, though not intentionally, with it's "backwards compatibility at all costs!" creedo. The clothes that you can fit to any figure improvements are great except the figure everyone is using to fit clothes to is V4.
I've probably posted in the thread, but I'm like a fish and don't remember what I had for lunch lol.
Perhaps I shall hold an anti V4 demonstration and sell t-shirts for Pauline and Dawn 
The poor love must be worn out by now, she deserves to be sent to a nice retirement home.
Yes some like the backward support, me, I want new, I want decent figures and I also want them to get rid of all that stuff that they've been including in the download since Poser 4 lol. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't lump the old and new together in the download. It did suggest it in their yearly survey a couple of times but alas..
I'm actually quite a lovely person in real life, the forum makes me come across as quite horrid 
putrdude posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 4:34 PM
Mmmmm donutsss...no wait, about Poser.
I love Poser. I use whatever figures come with it, if they have decent apparel, which usually they don't. So which figures do? M4 and V4! So I use them.
Maybe Dawn is great and Dusk is swell too, but i don't have anything in my closet for them to wear. Also, if you do any animation and use animation files, changing figures can be catastrophic to your animation. The body parts are often named differently and soon you have a dancing pretzel.
I'm think I'm different from most of you hard core users in that I don't want to fiddle in the cloth room, or make a rigging or whatever. I just want to build the scene I see in my head as easily as I can and I don't mind spending the money to do so. Just bought more from Renderosity yesterday and my wish list keeps on growing for Poser vendors. Mostly it depends on the current project I'm working on.
I used to love Daz figures and props but when they changed, so did my opinion of them. I don't even see the sense in their business model. They want to sell items, not the program, but they don't make the items available to Poser users. Since I know they can (always did) I assume they think it's best to ignore Poser users hoping they'll switch. Okay, it's their business and I still buy the occasional item from Daz if it will work in Poser, but I'm not going to switch to DAZ and their program is free!
I also find the threads such as "is poser a dead program" to be self defeating. If you are using it, it's not dead. Seems a little "the sky is falling" to me.
Nothing is forever. I'm going to enjoy using Poser until I can't anymore. Probably buy every new version.
Of course I'm the village idiot, so take that with a large grain of salt.
And now for that donut.
wolf359 posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 5:09 PM
"I don't even see the sense in their business model. They want to sell items, not the program,
It is called a "loss leader" business model Like "free " smartphones that require you to sign up for a two year contract with a specific service provider. They eat the cost of the phone knowing that they will get two years of revenue minimum from each person who gets the "Free" phone.
DAZ eats the development cost of the application in hopes that people will buy content for the program at their store and people most certainly are doing just that
but they don't make the items available to Poser users.
You mean they dont make the items in a poser native format
any longer.
poser users must find there own way to get NON poser native
content into poser if they wish to use it.
we users of other programs like Maxon Cinema4D Autodesk Max ,Maya SideFX houdini. Blender do not get Daz studio content in our native format either
we have to use FBX,Collada Alembic,.obj , MDD exports from Daz studio.
patorak3d posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 5:36 PM
Hey Sam How are you doing? How's your family doing? Great I hope.
wolf359, your clothes look awesome.
you guys, Dawn looks good seems to bend good as well.
I don't think one figure alone would revive Poser, though. I think it would take eleven figures to begin with, then build from there.
wolf359 posted Mon, 19 June 2017 at 5:51 PM
EClark1894 posted Tue, 20 June 2017 at 2:12 PM
patorak3d posted at 2:50PM Tue, 20 June 2017 - #4308001
Hey Sam How are you doing? How's your family doing? Great I hope.
wolf359, your clothes look awesome.
you guys, Dawn looks good seems to bend good as well.
I don't think one figure alone would revive Poser, though. I think it would take eleven figures to begin with, then build from there.
I'm not looking for ANY figure to revive Posers market share. Frankly, that's up to SM to turn around. Despite all the doomsaying for the last 8 years, Poser's still here and has a sizable user base. What SM NEEDS to do to revive Poser is to focus on and improve Poser's core feature sets. It needs to concentrate on the things it CAN do and do well, that Studio can't. And it should improve upon the features that it already has. In other words, Poser needs to get a little cutthroat. I'm not saying to be mean and try to put DAZ out of business. Frankly, that would be a major blunder on SM's part. They need DAZ more than DAZ needs them at the moment. And while figures seem to be the major point everyone seems to focus on, SM has already shown it has an amazing low, almost bordering on non-existent, regard for making the effort to produce the type of figures that would get the community to sit up and take notice. If SM really wanted to put CP back in the retail game, I'd focus on the other aspects that renders feature. animatable props, environments, scenery and settings, etc.
drafter69 posted Tue, 20 June 2017 at 3:21 PM
I was a poser user for many years and then Daz Studio came along. I was not terribly impressed at first but then the various models started to appear. Daz is offering some amazing characters while Poser seems determined to live with M4 and V4 forever. If developers developed high quality characters for Poser I would probably stay with Poser and please don't suggest the two low quality characters that came with Poser 11. Both are a sad joke. Now Daz is coming out with an even more sophisticated Victoria 8 and soon a Michael 8. Am I expected to stay loyal to Poser when the best that is offered is M4 & V4??? I feel that if Smith Micro doesn't wake up and smell the coffee soon it will be too late.
wolf359 posted Tue, 20 June 2017 at 5:16 PM
Now Daz is coming out with an even more sophisticated Victoria 8 and soon a Michael 8. Am I expected to stay loyal to Poser when the best that is offered is M4 & V4??.
Why bring "Loyalty" into the equation?? I have Zero "Loyalty" to corporations
Where is their Loyalty to you??? they dont wnat to invest in a professional modelor to make the figures but expect you to invest in their product out of what???...Loyalty??
for me it is strictly business. Make a product I want and I will buy it from you. Make a product I dont want and I will buy it from someone else it is not personal.
ssgbryan posted Tue, 20 June 2017 at 10:59 PM
I don't get the whole "I can only use 1 Figure" thought process. I use all of them. I do use Daz g figures, but that is for the most part they don't have analogues with other vendors/storefronts.
If I had the equivalent of the kids & teenagers from other sources, I'd retire them. Unfortunately, no one else has stepped up to the plate.
hornet3d posted Wed, 21 June 2017 at 4:58 AM Online Now!
putrdude posted at 10:35AM Wed, 21 June 2017 - #4307989
Mmmmm donutsss...no wait, about Poser.
I love Poser. I use whatever figures come with it, if they have decent apparel, which usually they don't. So which figures do? M4 and V4! So I use them.
Maybe Dawn is great and Dusk is swell too, but i don't have anything in my closet for them to wear. Also, if you do any animation and use animation files, changing figures can be catastrophic to your animation. The body parts are often named differently and soon you have a dancing pretzel.
I'm think I'm different from most of you hard core users in that I don't want to fiddle in the cloth room, or make a rigging or whatever. I just want to build the scene I see in my head as easily as I can and I don't mind spending the money to do so. Just bought more from Renderosity yesterday and my wish list keeps on growing for Poser vendors. Mostly it depends on the current project I'm working on.
I used to love Daz figures and props but when they changed, so did my opinion of them. I don't even see the sense in their business model. They want to sell items, not the program, but they don't make the items available to Poser users. Since I know they can (always did) I assume they think it's best to ignore Poser users hoping they'll switch. Okay, it's their business and I still buy the occasional item from Daz if it will work in Poser, but I'm not going to switch to DAZ and their program is free!
I also find the threads such as "is poser a dead program" to be self defeating. If you are using it, it's not dead. Seems a little "the sky is falling" to me.
Nothing is forever. I'm going to enjoy using Poser until I can't anymore. Probably buy every new version.
Of course I'm the village idiot, so take that with a large grain of salt.
And now for that donut.
I am in a fairly similar position to you in that I do not want to spend time rigging but I am spending more time in the cloth room as I now use Dawn and there are a lot of good dynamic clothes available at a very reasonable price.
I do buy from Daz when there is an item that will work in Poser but it is always props or scenes, never figures or clothes.
I understand you point regarding changes for, although I do not do animations, I was creating a story book with a V4 character and I wanted consistency. I finally moved to Dawn even though I had to rework my earlier V4 renders but you are right there are big differences. For example Dawn had a neck 1 and Neck 2 part as well as a abdomen 1 and 2, where V4 only had one. Joints on all of the toes was another change. I found expressions far easier so clearly the head is also different and it was these changes that finally convinced me to make the jump. So the changes can be a two edged sword, I stuck with V4 for a long time but if you want to progress you have to jump at some point, despite the financial cost and the time involved.
One problem is that Poser is in a difficult position for as vendors walk away there is not only less content to buy but, to some degree, it is harder to find so some people stop looking. When I started using Dawn there was little here for the figure, there still is and I have already purchased pretty well all I want from what is available here. As a result I started to visit the Market Place about once a month rather than once a day. Since the security breach I just don't visit the MP or at least I haven't since March and I don't expect that to end change any time soon. I am not alone so there are less buyers, both for Daz and Poser items but as I suspect that has had a bigger impact on Poser vendors than Daz due to there being fewer vendors. Less Vendors, Less products, less profits, less customers and so the cycle continues the spiral.
Finally , while I accept the Renderosity can not force vendors to make content for Poser I do not accept they do not have the ability to encourage more to be created if they so wanted. Mind you I may be biased as I have a similar view on their security.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
ssgbryan posted Wed, 21 June 2017 at 7:22 AM
If you want content for Dawn, you do have to shop at other storefronts.
OTOH, if you purchase Lyrra's Fit room magnets for Dawn & Dusk (sold right here at 'rosity), it is a 30 second process to convert an outfit.
I have dozens of V4 outfits that have never been worn by V4, but by Dawn, Pauline, Roxie, Miki, Sydney, Mariko, Jessi, et al.
The biggest problem is that with most vendors, all of their characters look alike.
hornet3d posted Wed, 21 June 2017 at 10:28 AM Online Now!
ssgbryan posted at 4:17PM Wed, 21 June 2017 - #4308133
If you want content for Dawn, you do have to shop at other storefronts.
OTOH, if you purchase Lyrra's Fit room magnets for Dawn & Dusk (sold right here at 'rosity), it is a 30 second process to convert an outfit.
I have dozens of V4 outfits that have never been worn by V4, but by Dawn, Pauline, Roxie, Miki, Sydney, Mariko, Jessi, et al.
The biggest problem is that with most vendors, all of their characters look alike.
I agree with that, I do have Lyrra's fit room magnets and a large wardrobe of V4 clothes so a lot of the clothes available for Dawn I already have as such. I am also very thankful that Fabiana did a Dawn conversion for a lot of her hair styles. As you suggest you do have to shop elsewhere and again I do but it means that all of my money is diverted away from Renderosity and as I only buy for Poser that means less profit for some Poser vendors. My little bit will have little impact but if I am not alone more potential profit is lost which was the point I was trying to make.
I still think there are plenty of opportunities for Poser uses, I am just not sure that the same can be said for Poser vendors if the present trend continues. Personally I still think Renderosity has the potential to influence the situation for the better, despite the claims to the contrary, but it needs their buy in.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
ssgbryan posted Wed, 21 June 2017 at 10:42 PM
There is a difference between the health of Poser and the Poser vendors.
Vendors made the decision not to support modern figures.
'Rosity made the decision to not enforce their own standards for selling Poser content (content must have material mc6s, for instance).
Demanding that content be able to run on ancient versions of Poser, when both Windows and OSX are dropping support for 32-bit programs isn't the smartest business decision.
I factor in how much work I need to do to bring a Poser product into the 21st Century before I buy. When a vendor tells me they don't have time to learn the features of Poser 9 when they are making a product for Dawn, they shouldn't expect my money.
Vendors intransigence is why we have advanced features like the fitting room, Poser add-ons like HCS, and stand alone products like Texture Transformer.
Every one of them lessens the value vendors in the Poser ecosystem. All of them were made because vendors don't want to leave their comfort zone.
At some point, vendors (and 'Rosity) need to accept the fact that it isn't October 2007 anymore.
RorrKonn posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 12:35 AM
Dave-So : I wish Cigs where still a dime n I didn't need a license n plate sticker n window stickers n insurance etc etc n a car didn't cost the price of a house but if we where still back in the day ,we wouldn't have sailphones that we need are grand kids to show us how to use and are old ladies to track us on ;) Don't ya love progress
A lot of the ones that where around back in the day. Didn't go to DAZ ,They went to C4D ,Maya ,Unithy etc etc. DAZ Poser is just a plug for the main apps.
Just a personal note but I prefer realtime render engines. I have no personal use for DAZ Poser Blender for ever n a day render engines. n why a vender would have a god awful render of noise to sell there stuff with is beyond me. Wouldn't a nice render improve sales ? They do make realtime render engines for DAZ Poser Blender.
Anyways there right we've had these threads for what seems like centuries now. A thread on improving ya render with 2D . A thread on making killer community Poser characters. A thread on killer plugs for Poser. Those I haven't seen for what seems like centuries now.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
hornet3d posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 5:55 AM Online Now!
ssgbryan posted at 11:53AM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308183
There is a difference between the health of Poser and the Poser vendors.
Vendors made the decision not to support modern figures.
'Rosity made the decision to not enforce their own standards for selling Poser content (content must have material mc6s, for instance).
Demanding that content be able to run on ancient versions of Poser, when both Windows and OSX are dropping support for 32-bit programs isn't the smartest business decision.
I factor in how much work I need to do to bring a Poser product into the 21st Century before I buy. When a vendor tells me they don't have time to learn the features of Poser 9 when they are making a product for Dawn, they shouldn't expect my money.
Vendors intransigence is why we have advanced features like the fitting room, Poser add-ons like HCS, and stand alone products like Texture Transformer.
Every one of them lessens the value vendors in the Poser ecosystem. All of them were made because vendors don't want to leave their comfort zone.
At some point, vendors (and 'Rosity) need to accept the fact that it isn't October 2007 anymore.
I can't personally vouch for some of the statements you have made, which I not to say that they are wrong, more likely that you are better informed than me. I do agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment behind your statement though.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
Boni posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 6:46 AM
Keep it positive guys ... you are on the edge, so I'm letting it go for now. But please ... be careful. This is informative. But some comments can be construed as software bashing by some folks ... don't want to go there.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
wolf359 posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 7:12 AM
At some point, vendors (and 'Rosity) need to accept the fact that it isn't October 2004 anymore.
There.. I went a head and fixed that for you.
Demanding that content be able to run on ancient versions of Poser, when both Windows and OSX are dropping support for 32-bit programs isn't the smartest business decision.
This problem will exist as long as the users cling to older versions. If your content only supports features of the most recent versions of poser you risk alienating a certain portion of your buyers.
Look it this forum with its Old version sub forums that still encourages poser 6 users to remain huddled in the crumbling caves of the past
And there is the problem of people having to actually $$BUY$$ the new version and possibly upgrade their hardware & OS.
These are the two major factors that are impeding forward advancement.
hornet3d posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 7:49 AM Online Now!
Boni posted at 1:44PM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308193
Keep it positive guys ... you are on the edge, so I'm letting it go for now. But please ... be careful. This is informative. But some comments can be construed as software bashing by some folks ... don't want to go there.
Not sure if I am included as one of the guys here, but just in case, I would like to make it clear that, while I may have been negative with some points the main aim of my comments were to try and improve both Poser and along the way the profitability of both Poser vendors and Renderosity. If any bashing is read into my comments it is due to me not wording comments correctly as there was never the intention to bash anything or anyone.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
ssgbryan posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 8:05 AM
But users aren't clinging to older versions. We have data on this. It was self selecting, but it is there. Poser 8 and earlier makeup less than 10% of the user base. All of those sub forums have been dead from the get go. The luddites are irrelevant.
If a user is too cheap to upgrade, they aren't spending money on content.
Oct 2007 was the release of V4.
Apple has already announced they are dropping 32-bit support in the next version of OSX, and MS is dropping support for the XP subsystem. Even phones are 64-bit.
We may not have flying cars, but the future is here.
wolf359 posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 8:33 AM
"But users aren't clinging to older versions. We have data on this. It was self selecting, but it is there. Poser 8 and earlier makeup less than 10% of the user base. all of those sub forums have been dead from the get go. The luddites are irrelevant."
Agreed but you must convince the content makers and Smith-(Backwards compatibility forever!!)-Micro that the luddites are irrelevant.
Oct 2007 was the release of V4.
Indeed but my point was that much of the poser content still uses methods that goes back even further as you have pointed out in the past.
ssgbryan posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 1:51 PM
Many vendors here (and elsewhere) aren't professionals in a general sense of the term. They don't believe in market research - they really do believe that if they make it, the customers should buy it and be grateful that they deign to make things for us to buy.
Unfortunately, 'Rosity encourages this behavior. Given a choice, I'd trade the faux friendliness for a healthy dose of professionalism.
I treat vendors and storefronts just like I do a department store. Sell me shoddy goods and I'll let you know in a hurry that I don't care about your feelings. If I want to purchase something, I am not shy and retiring about letting a vendor know what I am looking for and that I am willing to pay for it.
I want a professional relationship with vendors and storefronts - not a "family relationship". (Can you tell that I spent time in a family business?)
In my conversations with 2nd & 3rd tier vendors, they make it very clear that it is about THEIR art, not ours.
As another example, I watched one vendor nearly have an anyursym (sp) when a customer told them they had only purchased a product for the skin texture, not the character itself. They felt that their "art" was cheapened. Whatever.
I don't have a problem with older products - digital assets don't age - I can give them a new texture or add new features to legacy figures (I added facial bones AKA control surfaces to my genesis 1 & 2 figures for my own amusement.). And with some things, it isn't an option - M3 was the highwater mark for male clothing, IMO.
At the end of the day, like the OP said, opportunities abound for the Poser user.
putrdude posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 2:08 PM
Hornet3d,
I too used poser for a storybook for kids. I used Kate and she was just fine. There were enough clothes for what I needed and plenty of characters from Renderosity vendors (woohoo) that were great. I'm not going for photo realism here. I see that some people are and I envy their talent. It's fiction so I'm using um.. err.. "Piction."
I use whatever works. Poser works for me. You are probably right about Dawns expressions, but I find for my current book that I can get enough expression out of good 'ol v4 and m4. I admit I am slow to change, and maybe Daz new version is great, but I don't have time to learn a new version. I have more books that I want to write. The illustrations are just fun and help me visualize the scene.
I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades" concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.
IMHO, if Smith Micro wants to make Poser better, they need to make it easier for noobs like me to just set up a scene, put models in, click, put clothes on them (that fit) click. etc. I'm not looking for a career in graphics animation or work at pixar. I just want to do illustrations. They might also consider an idea from photoshop where you can preview various changes to the image in thumbnails. This would be great for lighting, but probably terribly difficult for the programmers to make happen within the limited resources of a PC...so far.
Also, I think rendering is going to make a huge advance with the emergence of Ryzen chips by AMD; more cores, faster renders, and they will force Intel to be cheaper too.
Thanks for all the comments. Very informative.
EClark1894 posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 2:31 PM
putrdude posted at 3:26PM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308246
I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades" concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.
IMHO, if Smith Micro wants to make Poser better, they need to make it easier for noobs like me to just set up a scene, put models in, click, put clothes on them (that fit) click. etc. I'm not looking for a career in graphics animation or work at pixar. I just want to do illustrations. They might also consider an idea from photoshop where you can preview various changes to the image in thumbnails. This would be great for lighting, but probably terribly difficult for the programmers to make happen within the limited resources of a PC...so far.
Also, I think rendering is going to make a huge advance with the emergence of Ryzen chips by AMD; more cores, faster renders, and they will force Intel to be cheaper too.
Thanks for all the comments. Very informative.
I think rendering is only going to be a consideration for people who want to do more realistic renders in a short amount of time. As I understand things now, SM, and therefore Poser's, main focus is on content creation. I get this, I really do, because making things easier for third parties to create content is where all of thse vendors came from it the first place. But I also believe that Poser needs to get it's head back in the game and show the load, click and render crowd some more love too.
SamTherapy posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 3:08 PM
EClark1894 posted at 8:59PM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308249
putrdude posted at 3:26PM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308246
I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades" concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.
IMHO, if Smith Micro wants to make Poser better, they need to make it easier for noobs like me to just set up a scene, put models in, click, put clothes on them (that fit) click. etc. I'm not looking for a career in graphics animation or work at pixar. I just want to do illustrations. They might also consider an idea from photoshop where you can preview various changes to the image in thumbnails. This would be great for lighting, but probably terribly difficult for the programmers to make happen within the limited resources of a PC...so far.
Also, I think rendering is going to make a huge advance with the emergence of Ryzen chips by AMD; more cores, faster renders, and they will force Intel to be cheaper too.
Thanks for all the comments. Very informative.
I think rendering is only going to be a consideration for people who want to do more realistic renders in a short amount of time. As I understand things now, SM, and therefore Poser's, main focus is on content creation. I get this, I really do, because making things easier for third parties to create content is where all of thse vendors came from it the first place. But I also believe that Poser needs to get it's head back in the game and show the load, click and render crowd some more love too.
Yup, to both of you. I'm reasonably adept with Poser - pre Firefly - but having access to a bunch of useful materials and scripts is vital, unless I want to spend hours faffing around with every single damn thing. The problem for newbies is, most wouldn't know about the scripts or materials. The newcomers most likely won't know about Snarly or BagginsBill, so will spend hours and hours getting frustrated and generally hacked off because their renders look lousy. There's a thread in this forum which illustrates this very thing.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
putrdude posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 4:38 PM
I've been using Poser since version 4.0 (I think). It's great, but oh man what a learning curve for the simplest of things. If you buy content it helps tremendously because it is already made for you. Even then you pose your model and suddenly, their butt is showing. You scratch your head and search google "oh that's poke through" whatever that is, but you click and find out there are forums like renderosity with people with the same butts hanging out. Then you finally get that you can hide their butts or conform the clothing like it's supposed to be. Suddenly, your model turns into a pretzel. You scratch your head and hit undo and poser crashes. So you start over, and you learn to save often. Then you conform the clothing to the body, not the hand you idiot. And on and on it goes making 1 mistake after another until you somewhat sort of get the hang of things. Then you get to the stage where you are able to compose a scene, but your soldier only has James Casual wear. What to do? You buy a soldier uniform that is for M4. They look similar, that should work. You hit conform and your pretzel army is ready to go. You make adjustments and then you realize you can fix it in the image without too much trouble.
Of course if you know photoshop, at least a little bit, you can mess with the textures, and the final product to get you a better result if you are only making a still photo/piction. Photoshop has it's own learning curve (years). It is no walk in the park as amazing as it is. So you keep learning and it gets better.
Then you want to make a movie. This thing does animation? Wow! Soon your pretzel army is dancing over the battlefield in spasms, with their butts hanging out half the time. Oh that motion file didn't apply to your guy? Who knew.
And as difficult as all this is, it's still fun to do. :) So keep on making stuff vendors (I'll buy it) and keep making it better Smith Micro, but think about making it easier, including more animation files that apply to all characters, clothing that adjusts to all characters with an "adjust the clothing to fit" button. Anything you can do to make it easier will sell more programs.
As I've said before, I'm different than most here. The stuff people can do amazes me especially in the advanced section tabs of the materials room. OMG! I just want my guy's underpants to stay on.
I don't want to understand how the paint is made, I just want to paint a picture.
The Village Idiot
wolf359 posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 6:00 PM
I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.
The answer is simple.
I make my own custom razors that automaticly inject lubricant across my purpose built "Genesis" blades and hand the razors out for no money...Free.
people take my free razor and realize it is only really useful with my "Genesis" Blades. I sell alot of blades to recoup the dev & manufacturing cost of my free razors.
Some other company has their own razors. I have** ZERO** control over their production cycles, materials used, physical dimensions and other variables.
Diverting my limited staff to trying to make blades for that other companies razor is not cost effective at best and a fools gambit at worst.
putrdude posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 6:52 PM
I "kinda" get it. But it's not like it's difficult for them to create a poser install. They were doing it all along. It's not like I'm going to switch because of their models. I really don't see how they are so much better anyway, certainly not for what I'm doing. I wish them well. I always used to buy from them. Now I just shop here or at Smith Micro. I'm still happy. ;)
DCArt posted Thu, 22 June 2017 at 8:06 PM
I "kinda" get it. But it's not like it's difficult for them to create a poser install. They were doing it all along.
Poser installs were easy before weight mapping was introduced in DAZ Studio and Poser. Now it's a different ball game, because the two programs use different weight mapping methods, and also use different methods to create materials and shaders. Because both programs use different methods for weight mapping and materials, it would mean that developers will have to know how to rig and create materials in both programs, and adding support for both vastly increases development time. Add to that things like "AutoFit" and other features that work in DS but don't have direct equivalents in Poser. If you have a figure that takes advantage of all the latest DS features, Poser won't be able to use them, unless you do some re-rigging in Poser. The reverse is also true ... if you have a figure that takes advantage of all the latest Poser features, DS won't be able to use them, unless you do some re-rigging in DS.
To put this in a more simple way. Compare Adobe Photoshop to Corel Painter. They both do similar things, both create 2D images and such. So you create a document that uses all of the latest and greatest features in Photoshop. And then you learn that Corel Painter also opens Photoshop files. "Great!" you think. But when you open the PSD file in Painter, you find out that some of the layer styles don't convert properly, or perhaps some of the other features you used in Photoshop don't get imported at all and are ignored. That's a similar situation. Photoshop and Painter are both great programs, but they have different features and approaches. Doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just means that if the software you use gives you the end result that you want, that's what is important.
Hope that makes sense.
RorrKonn posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 1:02 AM
I get what ya mean Deecey & agree100 %.
Adobe or Corel is killer for post render tweaks.
MS5EX is killer also ,Does wicked for comics.
For 2D Texturing a mesh Allegorithmic is Killer.
============================================================
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hornet3d posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 4:55 AM Online Now!
Deecey posted at 10:48AM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308275
I "kinda" get it. But it's not like it's difficult for them to create a poser install. They were doing it all along.
Poser installs were easy before weight mapping was introduced in DAZ Studio and Poser. Now it's a different ball game, because the two programs use different weight mapping methods, and also use different methods to create materials and shaders. Because both programs use different methods for weight mapping and materials, it would mean that developers will have to know how to rig and create materials in both programs, and adding support for both vastly increases development time. Add to that things like "AutoFit" and other features that work in DS but don't have direct equivalents in Poser. If you have a figure that takes advantage of all the latest DS features, Poser won't be able to use them, unless you do some re-rigging in Poser. The reverse is also true ... if you have a figure that takes advantage of all the latest Poser features, DS won't be able to use them, unless you do some re-rigging in DS.
To put this in a more simple way. Compare Adobe Photoshop to Corel Painter. They both do similar things, both create 2D images and such. So you create a document that uses all of the latest and greatest features in Photoshop. And then you learn that Corel Painter also opens Photoshop files. "Great!" you think. But when you open the PSD file in Painter, you find out that some of the layer styles don't convert properly, or perhaps some of the other features you used in Photoshop don't get imported at all and are ignored. That's a similar situation. Photoshop and Painter are both great programs, but they have different features and approaches. Doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just means that if the software you use gives you the end result that you want, that's what is important.
Hope that makes sense.
I understand that and it is the vendors choice what they decide to do. The reason I feel a little uneasy though I that the majority of Products at Hivewire3D come in both DS and Poser formats, yes there are a few that are Daz only but they are definitely in the minority. I accept that the vast majority of products are aimed and the Hivewire family, which crosses the divide to some degree, but if vendors there can do it why not at Renderosity. They may need a little encouragement but the stock answer has always been 'we cannot influence what vendors produce', Really?
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
hornet3d posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 5:17 AM Online Now!
putrdude posted at 10:59AM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308246
Hornet3d,
I too used poser for a storybook for kids. I used Kate and she was just fine. There were enough clothes for what I needed and plenty of characters from Renderosity vendors (woohoo) that were great. I'm not going for photo realism here. I see that some people are and I envy their talent. It's fiction so I'm using um.. err.. "Piction."
I use whatever works. Poser works for me. You are probably right about Dawns expressions, but I find for my current book that I can get enough expression out of good 'ol v4 and m4. I admit I am slow to change, and maybe Daz new version is great, but I don't have time to learn a new version. I have more books that I want to write. The illustrations are just fun and help me visualize the scene.
I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades" concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.
IMHO, if Smith Micro wants to make Poser better, they need to make it easier for noobs like me to just set up a scene, put models in, click, put clothes on them (that fit) click. etc. I'm not looking for a career in graphics animation or work at pixar. I just want to do illustrations. They might also consider an idea from photoshop where you can preview various changes to the image in thumbnails. This would be great for lighting, but probably terribly difficult for the programmers to make happen within the limited resources of a PC...so far.
Also, I think rendering is going to make a huge advance with the emergence of Ryzen chips by AMD; more cores, faster renders, and they will force Intel to be cheaper too.
Thanks for all the comments. Very informative.
Every 3D artist is different but it looks like our aims, and therefore needs, are very close. Most my renders are sci-fi or fantasy based and so I am not looking for a photograph type output. I like your term 'Piction', I normal describe my aim trying to achieve something that is believable rather the photo realistic and in that regard Poser Firefly renders meets my needs. On the odd occasion I want to try something different there is always Reality/Luxrender and I love the fact you can pause the render and start it again later, it is a real plus in my book.
If V4 and M4 meets your needs, why change, I still use M4 regularly alongside Dawn and create a number of renders with Dawn, M4 and V4 showing an appearance. Where Dawn really stars for me is in portraits, which is a favorite of mine, and the control over the eyes and eyebrows can have a real impact. Outside of portraits this would be lost as in normal scene renders as the detail would just not be clear enough.
I think you are right about the Ryzen chips but I think I would use the extra cores to build more complex scenes that render in a reasonable time than aim for photo realistic renders.
Your comments in your later post about starting out really took me back and I forget all too easily just how difficult and steep the learning curve was. I have a photographic background and know Paint Shop Pro fairly well which may have made it easier for me but it was a real struggle. I started with Poser 5 so I have been learning for a good few years but still feel I have more to learn that I have already learnt. Mind you I think I am glad I started with Poser 5 rather than start today with Poser 11 which is a far more complex beast. Looking back on my first few renders all those years ago is a real reminder of the journey I have taken.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
ssgbryan posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 7:20 AM
Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio.
Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.
wolf359 posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 8:40 AM
Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio. Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.
I am curious. Do the DS versions of the hivewire figures have the COMPLETE functionality of a genesis figure?.
Examples:
work with the aniMate aniblock system??
I model an outfit , import the mesh and the transfer tool rigs it to a DS HW figure in three clicks like genesis with morphs active in the clothing straight away??
Can be made to speak with the mimic tools by default??
hornet3d posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 8:48 AM Online Now!
ssgbryan posted at 2:43PM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308299
Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio.
Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.
I don't use DS so I am not sure on the functionality, I was just making the point that most items for sale can be used in both Poser and DS. You are right there is some cross over between the two programs with Poser vendors and DS vendors sharing their knowledge. I assume this is because that each side can see some benefit in the products working in both softwares. I would have thought that was a positive trend.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
adzan posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 10:46 AM
wolf359 posted at 10:46AM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308302
Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio. Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.
I am curious. Do the DS versions of the hivewire figures have the COMPLETE functionality of a genesis figure?.
Examples:
work with the aniMate aniblock system??
I model an outfit , import the mesh and the transfer tool rigs it to a DS HW figure in three clicks like genesis with morphs active in the clothing straight away??
Can be made to speak with the mimic tools by default??
Yes - Dawn includes projection templates for Bodysuit, Pants, Shirt and Skirt
the other two questions ?? i'll just check the aniblock thingy for you and report back - never used the mimic tool in daz studio so don't have a clue about that one sorry.
k - the aniblock thingy - you can load the block and Dawn will perform the motions but I did notice that her feet point upwards - I'm not an animator so I have no idea if your supposed to do something to the figures feet first - hope that helps
RedPhantom posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 3:11 PM Site Admin
wolf359 posted at 3:07PM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308302
Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio. Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.
I am curious. Do the DS versions of the hivewire figures have the COMPLETE functionality of a genesis figure?.
Examples:
work with the aniMate aniblock system??
I model an outfit , import the mesh and the transfer tool rigs it to a DS HW figure in three clicks like genesis with morphs active in the clothing straight away??
Can be made to speak with the mimic tools by default??
The issue may not be with the import and rigging of the clothing. It may be the texturing. Most vendors seem to want more than simple image maps, which is understandable. But the shader systems are vastly different especially if you consider both programs have 2 render engines that each use different shaders. Some vendors do not have the time or mindset to learn them all, especially in a program they are not familiar with.
Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage
Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10
putrdude posted Fri, 23 June 2017 at 3:15 PM
Okay, last one, I promise. I don't really see too much that looks photo realistic to me in Poser or DAZ. There is always a 'tell.' That said, some are amazing.
Like hornet3d, I used it for a children's fantasy book, and now I'm working on an adult sci fi. There are gobs of props, ships, creatures etc for Poser. True also for DS. I didn't realize how much DS had changed the figures for whatever reason, and if they choose not to make them for Poser, its okay with me.
In the land of books (as I see it) there are books without pictures, books with illustrations, and then graphic novels and/or comic books. Only in books with actual photographs NON-fiction, would I have to worry about photo realism...and even then: "is that a flying saucer up there or is this photo-shopped?"
Anyway, "graphic novels / comic books" are huge lately. The images require a different set of skills and are often done by 3-4 people, author, text, art, and coloring. No matter how good it is, it is not photo realistic. Illustrations in books from the Bible onward have been paintings, sketches, water colors or whatever. Imagine if Matthew Mark Luke or John had Poser (not to be blasphemous or anything)
Personally, I like the look of Poser images better than comic book images. Neither are photo-realistic.
And of course the closer you get to real, you run into the "uncanny valley." Hollywood with all their money can't get past that, how am I supposed to with my 1 pc and Poser?
I have found that the norms, rules, conventions, requirements of pictures in books are all a matter of taste. Most reviewers loved my Poser images and mentioned them in their reviews as "stunning" or "amazing." I've seen so much better here in the galleries, but I'm getting better. If they saw the work that people here can do they would be speechless.
SamTherapy posted Sat, 24 June 2017 at 11:29 AM
Remember the "photo" doing the rounds a few years back? That managed to beat some aspects of the Uncanny Valley in a counterintuitive way, by making an image that looked like a badly lit, amateur photo. Caused a bit of a stir, IIRC.
My biggest gripe with CG in movies is the figures and objects often don't seem to have any - or enough - mass. Over here we had the Walking With Dinosaurs series, and, as I was working in a building full of CG professionals, there were no end of debates, discussions and whatnot about how bad it was. Even someone with the most rudimentary understanding of CG and animation could spot how shoddy it looked.
Then there are the "all done with traditional animation", or "it's all for real" things that get wheeled out now and again. Remember the Honda one someone showed here? Everyone noticed the ball accelerating uphill. Nobody in the production department ever seems to pick up on these things, though.
I have a feeling the Uncanny Valley is something that can be overcome, at least some of the time, but quite often animators and artists make a rudimentary mistake which makes the whole thing roll over.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
MKDAWUSS posted Sat, 24 June 2017 at 2:52 PM
SamTherapy posted at 3:49PM Sat, 24 June 2017 - #4308416
Remember the "photo" doing the rounds a few years back? That managed to beat some aspects of the Uncanny Valley in a counterintuitive way, by making an image that looked like a badly lit, amateur photo. Caused a bit of a stir, IIRC.
My biggest gripe with CG in movies is the figures and objects often don't seem to have any - or enough - mass. Over here we had the Walking With Dinosaurs series, and, as I was working in a building full of CG professionals, there were no end of debates, discussions and whatnot about how bad it was. Even someone with the most rudimentary understanding of CG and animation could spot how shoddy it looked.
Then there are the "all done with traditional animation", or "it's all for real" things that get wheeled out now and again. Remember the Honda one someone showed here? Everyone noticed the ball accelerating uphill. Nobody in the production department ever seems to pick up on these things, though.
I have a feeling the Uncanny Valley is something that can be overcome, at least some of the time, but quite often animators and artists make a rudimentary mistake which makes the whole thing roll over.
And there's also the uncanny valley of consumables. I have yet to see CGI food that I would want to eat.
I think one day we'll get across the Uncanny Valley entirely, but I think we're still a few tech levels away from doing so.
RorrKonn posted Sat, 24 June 2017 at 4:29 PM
if they have the time n budget they can make realistic 3D. but who has the time or money. TV don't have the biggest budgets.
vray n render engine like v gallerys has some good stuff.
we only notice the bad 3D .the good 3D we never know it's 3D.
I thought warcraft movie was good n I can't tell the 3D in xMen apocalypse.
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Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
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patorak3d posted Tue, 27 June 2017 at 1:20 PM
Well, I had a good look around the other sights. After what I saw, I do believe there is plenty of room to expand the Poser economy. Maybe the expansion should start with new figures. My suggestion, like I said before, start with eleven. Here is an example. 
hornet3d posted Tue, 27 June 2017 at 2:21 PM Online Now!
patorak3d posted at 8:06PM Tue, 27 June 2017 - #4308647
Well, I had a good look around the other sights. After what I saw, I do believe there is plenty of room to expand the Poser economy. Maybe the expansion should start with new figures. My suggestion, like I said before, start with eleven. Here is an example.
I too think that there is room to expand the Poser economy but I am not as convinced with this solution. Hivewire have already started down this route with the Hivewire Family with Dusk, Dawn and for a children there is Diva for Dawn from Pendraia Fae and baby Luna by CG Cubed. Animal wise you have the Horse with many different breeds, including a foal, Big cat the Hivewire Gorilla and so the list goes on with even more in development. Not only do Hivewire have a head start Poser figures do not get used that much, I think I have only used them in twice or three time in fourteen years. Unless they can at least match or improve on figures already available I would much prefer for research time being spent on feature improvement.
So not to start an argument here I used Hivewire as an example as we are discussing Poser. If we were discussing DS there is the same argument, just the solution is different.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
SamTherapy posted Tue, 27 June 2017 at 4:23 PM
If they could somehow talk Gabe into making their figures, Smith would have an amazing set of people. I mean, if he can turn Alyson (Arnie with tits) into something as lovely as Anastasia, anything is possible.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
wolf359 posted Tue, 27 June 2017 at 5:18 PM
"If they could somehow talk Gabe into making their figures, Smith would have an amazing set of people. I mean, if he can turn Alyson (Arnie with tits) into something as lovely as Anastasia, anything is possible."
It is not really a matter of talking a talented artist into making the default figures it is a matter of $$$properly compensating$$ them for their work.
There are any number of human model makers over at ArtStation or Cgsociety that could do better than the mighty Daz Genesis
(including correct eye/eyelid geometry that genesis sorely lacks)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=358&t=1455122
We all know Bagginsbill is way more capable of creating a better a content library than that flashed based cruel joke, that shipped with poser pro 2014.
However according to his own posts, in this forum, SM did not want to pay him for the cost of a proper one coded in C++.
You poser users are getting only what SM is willing to pay for.
tonyvilters posted Tue, 27 June 2017 at 5:29 PM
New Poser figure I am working on.
RorrKonn posted Tue, 27 June 2017 at 9:04 PM
If you sell comics at places like comixology .Who keeps the copy rights ?
a lot of the made out of real paper publishers "not pdfs" sold at real world stores. keeps the copyrights.is why I ask.
There's a lot ,I mean a lot of characters n meshes at sketchfab. but I don't see them sold for Poser,DAZ,Turbosquid,Unity,Unreal or any where. Guess most are for fun n not opportunity.
============================================================
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Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
adzan posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 12:05 AM
RorrKonn posted at 11:49PM Tue, 27 June 2017 - #4308667
There's a lot ,I mean a lot of characters n meshes at sketchfab. but I don't see them sold for Poser,DAZ,Turbosquid,Unity,Unreal or any where. Guess most are for fun n not opportunity.
Many of the items at sketchfab would come under 'fan art' so the item can't be sold in a content store.
Many of the models aren't really suitable for Poser, the models may look like game assets but the meshes run into millions of tri's and are really messy, they'd be a nightmare to group and rig
RorrKonn posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 1:16 AM
adzan posted at 2:05AM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308671
RorrKonn posted at 11:49PM Tue, 27 June 2017 - #4308667
There's a lot ,I mean a lot of characters n meshes at sketchfab. but I don't see them sold for Poser,DAZ,Turbosquid,Unity,Unreal or any where. Guess most are for fun n not opportunity.
Many of the items at sketchfab would come under 'fan art' so the item can't be sold in a content store.
Many of the models aren't really suitable for Poser, the models may look like game assets but the meshes run into millions of tri's and are really messy, they'd be a nightmare to group and rig
ya some of the million polycount meshes are scans of real people some zBrush n some I have no idea what app they come from. but they do have a lot of low polycount game meshes also. imm has a wicked hunter
I was also wondering if Rooster Teeth the ones that make RWBY on YouTube makes any money ? That's a lot of work just for fun. I was under the impression that Rooster Teeth uses Poser in there pipeline ?
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
RorrKonn posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 1:29 AM
Oh and speaking of Poser possibilities I know Poser was in the anomaly comic pipe line.
http://www.experienceanomaly.com/anomaly/
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
RorrKonn posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 1:52 AM
SamTherapy who's Gabe ? what characters did Gabe make ?
wolf359 Attualy a lot of charcters you see on the main sites are Killers no doubt but is it a complete rigged body that can do all that are characters can do ?. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=358&t=1455122 killers as she is it's just a face. zBrush gallery has some killer characters but if it's made in zBrush polycounts way way to high. you can see just how few can make characters to halfway = r's at turboSquid and there working with high end apps.
bends good ,good topology ,good maps ,good rigs.
I'm talking from experience to make are characters ='s .only 1 out of a billion 3D Artist can accomplish that.
I like Dawn fine one of the best characters ever made I have nothing against her but how she's judge is her topology is considered bad it has tri's n her polycount is considered to high.
I think Dawn n Roxie are killer characters but the way Roxie is judged is not good either.
Most of the Poser characters are not judged well either. To make a flawless 3D character takes Magic.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
adzan posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 6:18 AM
RorrKonn posted at 6:08AM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308672
I was under the impression that Rooster Teeth uses Poser in there pipeline ?
regarding Rooster Teeths' RWBY - I seem to recall reading that RWBY originally used Poser but they changed over to Maya?
Pretty sure Joe (Netherworks) worked for Rooster Teeth and he mentioned in a thread about using either Maya or 3dsMax to create the models
And Gabe is Blackhearted https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?uid=11343
RorrKonn posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 11:59 AM
Well if Roster Teeth got Autodesk then there making money ,Just don't know how there making money. Don't think youtubes click on a banner for so long is enough for Autodesk.
Still haven't found out who keeps the copy rights at places like comixology ? either.
Ant it aggravating when you can fine out anything n everything on the web except for ehat ya looking for.
I recognized the name Blackheart .He has some wicked morphs ,but He don't make characters he morphs others meshes. V4 will never rot or maybe have Blackheart make some morphs for Dawn.V4 n Dawn works great in Poser.
I've never seen any other characters make it in Poser ,Don't know why any one else would even try .there's a 1000 good reasons not to n not one good reason to.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
AmbientShade posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 4:52 PM
A lot of their revenue likely comes from youtube ads. There's a lot of youtubers making a fortune that way. As in millions. There are youtube channels who have larger viewing audiences than major tv networks. That's why a lot of highschool and college kids can make a very comfortable living playing video games on youtube. Or at least there were until recently, not sure how well they're doing now, as advertisers started pulling their ads off youtube earlier this year due to some controversies and youtube started demonetizing scads of videos as a result. It all started with some drama surrounding one of YT's top gamer channels.
Reading comixology's faq section would answer that question for you. Most likely the comic creator keeps the copyright, unless you sell the rights to a larger publishing house. That's how most indie publishing sites work. Comixology is owned by amazon now so I'm pretty sure it works roughly the same as kindle books, which is that the creator keeps the rights.
RorrKonn posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 6:02 PM
AmbientShade posted at 6:54PM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308728
A lot of their revenue likely comes from youtube ads. There's a lot of youtubers making a fortune that way. As in millions. There are youtube channels who have larger viewing audiences than major tv networks. That's why a lot of highschool and college kids can make a very comfortable living playing video games on youtube. Or at least there were until recently, not sure how well they're doing now, as advertisers started pulling their ads off youtube earlier this year due to some controversies and youtube started demonetizing scads of videos as a result. It all started with some drama surrounding one of YT's top gamer channels.
Reading comixology's faq section would answer that question for you. Most likely the comic creator keeps the copyright, unless you sell the rights to a larger publishing house. That's how most indie publishing sites work. Comixology is owned by amazon now so I'm pretty sure it works roughly the same as kindle books, which is that the creator keeps the rights.
Ya I'm betting creator keeps the rights also.
Think Roster Teeth makes Millions ? I'd be good with $100,000.00. I need a new ride n a Lamborghini just wouldn't do well in Coal Country.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
EClark1894 posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 6:15 PM
AmbientShade posted at 7:09PM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308728
A lot of their revenue likely comes from youtube ads. There's a lot of youtubers making a fortune that way. As in millions. There are youtube channels who have larger viewing audiences than major tv networks.>
Apples meet oranges. A youtube channel may have a LOT of subscribers, but no way can or do they have a sustained audience over various lengths of time, days of the week, and times of day as the networks do.
AmbientShade posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 6:35 PM
That doesn't really matter. Youtube's algorithms are a mystery to most people, but the number of subscribers doesn't correlate directly to the amount of revenue a channel receives. It's more about how many views the channel gets. I watch a lot more channels than I'm subscribed to, as do a lot of people. You can figure a channel is only going to get about 10% subs or so compared to number of views. But once you've watched a couple videos from one channel it will start showing up in your feed consistently whether you're subscribed or not. And the more successful channels do have regular audiences and regular times of the day/week that they upload new videos, so their core audience knows when to expect a new video from that channel. And it's not like network tv where you have to be home to watch a show at this time on this day. YT is always on. There are also networks that help promote your channel for a share of the revenue. A couple years back, that same top gamer where all the drama came from, was making over 4 mil a year off ad revenue and had something like 10 million subs. That was a couple years back, the numbers are much bigger now. Once you reach a certain amount of views and subs the numbers tend to start growing faster, depending on the type of content and consistency. And that doesn't even factor in other sources of revenue for channels such as patreon and sponsorship from bigger companies.
Consider also a lot of people don't watch regular tv anymore. I didn't even own a tv for the last 8 years, until I got a small 32 inch back in April. Mostly a waste of money. Was plugged up for about 2 weeks and now it's been sitting in the other bedroom since then. I just don't have a use for tv or a cable bill when I can watch pretty much everything online for free or pennies.
EClark1894 posted Wed, 28 June 2017 at 7:53 PM
AmbientShade posted at 8:52PM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308746
That doesn't really matter. Youtube's algorithms are a mystery to most people, but the number of subscribers doesn't correlate directly to the amount of revenue a channel receives. It's not a mystery to the people who have to place the ads. They know who's doing what, when and where
RorrKonn posted Thu, 29 June 2017 at 2:02 AM
Anyways I can't believe how easy I found this.
Rooster Teeth 9,050,943 subscribers • 5,010,107,275 views Joined Jul 10, 2006
I'm thinking ,make YouTube Videos. We do have Poser after all. We'd keep the Copy Rights ,Right ?
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
Boni posted Thu, 29 June 2017 at 6:45 AM
RorrKonn posted at 4:44AM Thu, 29 June 2017 - #4308704
Well if Roster Teeth got Autodesk then there making money ,Just don't know how there making money. Don't think youtubes click on a banner for so long is enough for Autodesk.
Still haven't found out who keeps the copy rights at places like comixology ? either.
Ant it aggravating when you can fine out anything n everything on the web except for ehat ya looking for.
I recognized the name Blackheart .He has some wicked morphs ,but He don't make characters he morphs others meshes. V4 will never rot or maybe have Blackheart make some morphs for Dawn.V4 n Dawn works great in Poser.
I've never seen any other characters make it in Poser ,Don't know why any one else would even try .there's a 1000 good reasons not to n not one good reason to.
Comixology was bought out by Amazon, so for those interested the copyright information would be from them.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
RorrKonn posted Thu, 29 June 2017 at 3:41 PM
Boni posted at 4:41PM Thu, 29 June 2017 - #4308775
RorrKonn posted at 4:44AM Thu, 29 June 2017 - #4308704
Well if Roster Teeth got Autodesk then there making money ,Just don't know how there making money. Don't think youtubes click on a banner for so long is enough for Autodesk.
Still haven't found out who keeps the copy rights at places like comixology ? either.
Ant it aggravating when you can fine out anything n everything on the web except for ehat ya looking for.
I recognized the name Blackheart .He has some wicked morphs ,but He don't make characters he morphs others meshes. V4 will never rot or maybe have Blackheart make some morphs for Dawn.V4 n Dawn works great in Poser.
I've never seen any other characters make it in Poser ,Don't know why any one else would even try .there's a 1000 good reasons not to n not one good reason to.
Comixology was bought out by Amazon, so for those interested the copyright information would be from them.
I found it :)
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
RorrKonn posted Thu, 29 June 2017 at 6:42 PM
AmbientShade posted at 7:38PM Thu, 29 June 2017 - #4308746
That doesn't really matter. Youtube's algorithms are a mystery to most people, but the number of subscribers doesn't correlate directly to the amount of revenue a channel receives. It's more about how many views the channel gets. I watch a lot more channels than I'm subscribed to, as do a lot of people. You can figure a channel is only going to get about 10% subs or so compared to number of views. But once you've watched a couple videos from one channel it will start showing up in your feed consistently whether you're subscribed or not. And the more successful channels do have regular audiences and regular times of the day/week that they upload new videos, so their core audience knows when to expect a new video from that channel. And it's not like network tv where you have to be home to watch a show at this time on this day. YT is always on. There are also networks that help promote your channel for a share of the revenue. A couple years back, that same top gamer where all the drama came from, was making over 4 mil a year off ad revenue and had something like 10 million subs. That was a couple years back, the numbers are much bigger now. Once you reach a certain amount of views and subs the numbers tend to start growing faster, depending on the type of content and consistency. And that doesn't even factor in other sources of revenue for channels such as patreon and sponsorship from bigger companies.
Consider also a lot of people don't watch regular tv anymore. I didn't even own a tv for the last 8 years, until I got a small 32 inch back in April. Mostly a waste of money. Was plugged up for about 2 weeks and now it's been sitting in the other bedroom since then. I just don't have a use for tv or a cable bill when I can watch pretty much everything online for free or pennies.
I'm sure there's some way to hook Hulu ,Netflix ect ect internet to ya TV with out cable. could always have a 32 inch PC monitor Like Tony
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
AmbientShade posted Thu, 29 June 2017 at 8:40 PM
I've got a blu-ray player with the music and movie apps like hulu, netflix etc on it that you connect internet to. Think I watched like two movies on it. My desk isn't big enough for the tv. I have a 24" and a 20" on it, plenty of screen space for working on the pc. Just got an ad in the mail today from the cable company for streaming live tv for $20 a month. lol. There's only one show on one of those channels that I'll watch, and it doesn't come back on til October. Between youtube and my steam library I really just don't have any use for tv. Waste of time. I'd rather be creating something.
Cyberdene posted Sun, 02 July 2017 at 8:37 PM
I think it's wrong to lock or block threads just because of "flame" people shouldn't be so damn intimidated by other people's thoughts or opinions. That's the issue I have with the world today, people have gone way too soft. Especially in the U.S. you get censored if anything you say offends or upset somebody.
I grew up in a heavy flame war era, but as we move toward the political correct era, you can get censored or blocked if your topics become too intense....Hence why when I want to talk about stuff like this, I'll stick to other sites that have a poser community. I've never been blocked on any of those no matter how intense my post were.
Some people just feel really strong about these programs and sadly the lack of Vendor support can kill a program off....I mean think about this, if all the vendors stopped making content, that means people will have to use old content...So how many times are you going to keep rendering with the same stuff over and over? I mean I am always buying new hair, new rooms, new clothes, but sadly all my top favorite vendors are DAZ only, and that hurts my library..As a result of that, I am starting to see newer clothes for Genesis figures. not only that Genesis users also get Poser stuff remade for them...But these vendors will not remake DAZ stuff for Poser.
I have lots of friends who use both programs or just one or the other. I wanted to use Daz because clearly they do have Poser beat in terms of content for certain figures...I mean just look at the stuff for the Kids, and Male figures in Poser....Neglected. I have yet to see someone build up Michael 4's wardrobe the way Victoria's has grown....I hardly even use my male figures because of it. Yet I look at Genesis male figures, and these dudes have just as much as the female figures, and that alone almost made me want to give up and leave poser. But DAZ have the worse interface and I couldn't stand it. Plus I get sick of them constantly making more and more "new" base figures and then they try to charge base prices on all of em. So I am trying to figure out how is Victoria 7 any different from Aiko 6 or how is Aiko 6 different from Ophelia 7, How is Ophelia 7 any different from Mika 7....See what I mean? They break out with so many of these and they all cost in the 40 dollar range. So I'm trying to figure out what's the difference between those figures that always have the number at the end of their name versus the figures that are just characters used for the base figures. Like for instance Victoria 4 is the base, but all those character figures for her are just character morphs...They don't cost $40 a piece, the highest I've seen some of them go for is about $14.00 or $16.00
Cyberdene posted Sun, 02 July 2017 at 8:41 PM
putrdude posted at 8:40PM Sun, 02 July 2017 - #4307989
Mmmmm donutsss...no wait, about Poser.
I love Poser. I use whatever figures come with it, if they have decent apparel, which usually they don't. So which figures do? M4 and V4! So I use them.
Maybe Dawn is great and Dusk is swell too, but i don't have anything in my closet for them to wear. Also, if you do any animation and use animation files, changing figures can be catastrophic to your animation. The body parts are often named differently and soon you have a dancing pretzel.
I'm think I'm different from most of you hard core users in that I don't want to fiddle in the cloth room, or make a rigging or whatever. I just want to build the scene I see in my head as easily as I can and I don't mind spending the money to do so. Just bought more from Renderosity yesterday and my wish list keeps on growing for Poser vendors. Mostly it depends on the current project I'm working on.
I used to love Daz figures and props but when they changed, so did my opinion of them. I don't even see the sense in their business model. They want to sell items, not the program, but they don't make the items available to Poser users. Since I know they can (always did) I assume they think it's best to ignore Poser users hoping they'll switch. Okay, it's their business and I still buy the occasional item from Daz if it will work in Poser, but I'm not going to switch to DAZ and their program is free!
I also find the threads such as "is poser a dead program" to be self defeating. If you are using it, it's not dead. Seems a little "the sky is falling" to me.
Nothing is forever. I'm going to enjoy using Poser until I can't anymore. Probably buy every new version.
Of course I'm the village idiot, so take that with a large grain of salt.
And now for that donut.
Exactly what you said, ignoring us and hoping that we'll switch. I believe this tenfold....That's why a lot of my friends who do still use Poser hate them with a passion, they feel like DAZ is trying to kill off Poser by stealing the vendors and then eventually coming after the users.
RorrKonn posted Tue, 04 July 2017 at 11:50 PM
The difference between Victoria 7 & Aiko 6 is the mesh ,uvmap n rigs. it's 2 totally different characters.
accusing DAZ of trying to kill Poser will defiantly get the thread locked .so if you could reframe from getting are threads locked we'd appreciate it.
did maya kill softimage ? did max kill truespace ?are they responsible for LW's prices now ?
the best apps win.
If there never was a DAZ V3,V4 would there have been a Poser ?
If I can't pay my bills who's fault is it ? If Poser dies it's Posers fault.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
EClark1894 posted Wed, 05 July 2017 at 7:26 AM
RorrKonn posted at 8:24AM Wed, 05 July 2017 - #4309200
The difference between Victoria 7 & Aiko 6 is the mesh ,uvmap n rigs. it's 2 totally different characters.
accusing DAZ of trying to kill Poser will defiantly get the thread locked .so if you could reframe from getting are threads locked we'd appreciate it.
did maya kill softimage ? did max kill truespace ?are they responsible for LW's prices now ?
the best apps win.
If there never was a DAZ V3,V4 would there have been a Poser ?
Well, yeah. Poser was here before V3 or V4. That's kinda like asking if there was no RorKonn, would there be his parents? They wouldn't be his parents anymore but yeah, they'd still be here.
RorrKonn posted Wed, 05 July 2017 at 11:33 AM
Why do some music bands play in sold out stadiums and other bands play in small menus ?It depends how often they put out top 10 hits.Some bands wright there own top 10 hits.Some bands have writers wright there top 10 hits. either way if your a band with out a top 10 hit and you do exist ,who cares ? How long do you think it would take taylor swift to fade in to obscurity with out any more hits ?
Dwayne Johnsons bit in the fast n furious 8 about Taylor Swift n his daughter .was hilarious.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
EClark1894 posted Wed, 05 July 2017 at 3:32 PM
RorrKonn posted at 4:31PM Wed, 05 July 2017 - #4309239
Why do some music bands play in sold out stadiums and other bands play in small menus ?It depends how often they put out top 10 hits.Some bands wright there own top 10 hits.Some bands have writers wright there top 10 hits. either way if your a band with out a top 10 hit and you do exist ,who cares ? How long do you think it would take taylor swift to fade in to obscurity with out any more hits ?
Dwayne Johnsons bit in the fast n furious 8 about Taylor Swift n his daughter .was hilarious.
Taylor Who????
RorrKonn posted Thu, 06 July 2017 at 12:54 AM
EClark1894 posted at 1:53AM Thu, 06 July 2017 - #4309261
RorrKonn posted at 4:31PM Wed, 05 July 2017 - #4309239
Why do some music bands play in sold out stadiums and other bands play in small menus ?It depends how often they put out top 10 hits.Some bands wright there own top 10 hits.Some bands have writers wright there top 10 hits. either way if your a band with out a top 10 hit and you do exist ,who cares ? How long do you think it would take taylor swift to fade in to obscurity with out any more hits ?
Dwayne Johnsons bit in the fast n furious 8 about Taylor Swift n his daughter .was hilarious.
Taylor Who????
Taylor's this little Nashville hottie.
If you haven't seen furious 8 ya missing out.
planed on watching XXX: Return Of Xander Cage today on amazon. My power went out to day at 4:15pm to 11:45pm "insert cussing here" so went n saw Transformers ,wicked.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
tonyvilters posted Thu, 06 July 2017 at 4:14 AM
The possibilities for Poser users are endless if you simply follow my first 2 video tutorials;
Poser2Blender2Poser : The correct export-import settings between both apps
and :
Poser2Blender2Poser : Detailing Poser meshes using FBM and HD morphs created in Blender
Both of the above use Blender, but the same tech can be used in other 3D apps that can rework obj files.
For those that like to play around with the new Poser11 ground plane for surface or background possibilities, there are 2 more video's on tips and tricks for the new Ground plane.
Poser only has 2 traps:
a) It is impossible to "save" or "export" an obj file from Poser without Poser breaking it up into vertex groups. (Video1 and Video 4) => Video 4 also has the "cure".
b) The Poser UI slows down when using large textures (8.192x8.192 or higher) => Renders stay at the same render speed, only the UI slows down.
Best regards, Tony
PS; the request is still open if other video tutorials are requested/required to enhance your workflow.
ssgbryan posted Thu, 06 July 2017 at 10:29 AM
RorrKonn posted at 8:30AM Thu, 06 July 2017 - #4309200
If there never was a DAZ V3,V4 would there have been a Poser ?
Daz was founded for the purpose of making content for Poser. The reason Daz made Daz Studio was because of Poser (and it's design team) was being passed from company to company a decade ago (The Poser 5 - 7 lifecycle).
EClark1894 posted Thu, 06 July 2017 at 1:31 PM
ssgbryan posted at 2:30PM Thu, 06 July 2017 - #4309348
RorrKonn posted at 8:30AM Thu, 06 July 2017 - #4309200
If there never was a DAZ V3,V4 would there have been a Poser ?
Daz was founded for the purpose of making content for Poser. The reason Daz made Daz Studio was because of Poser (and it's design team) was being passed from company to company a decade ago (The Poser 5 - 7 lifecycle).
Also V1 and V2 were doing quite well. Why do you think V3 and V4 were made? Although, to be honest I never did warm up to V1 all that much. I stuck with Posette until the V2 Upgrade for V1 came along and I bought that. I still have her (V2) in my runtime somewhere, but you can't find any clothes for her anymore.
RorrKonn posted Thu, 06 July 2017 at 7:59 PM
I miss there forums BOT email notices. Anyways. I became aware of Poser cause of Max in the Poser 4 n V3 days ,wasn't long till V4 was released. I thought Posette was V1. I never liked V3,V4 High poly count.Some where a long the way I got a V2.
There was a Poser version for Max ,can't remember what they called it. I can't keep up with all the company's that's owned Poser. I always wanted Autodesk to buy Poser. You know they have the resources to make Poser the Wickedest.
Modo's got a monthly plan now. Half to say I'm tempted. Anyways I really wish Renderosity would fix there bots but I gave up on that months a go.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
Boni posted Fri, 07 July 2017 at 8:23 AM
Please folks read the TOS on baiting and flame wars. When it comes to comparing Poser and DAZ ... it seems we cannot have a debate without a war. So ... keep your comments on topic.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
putrdude posted Fri, 07 July 2017 at 11:17 AM
We need Daz if only to keep Poser (SM) on it's toes. Competition brings down prices and improves products. May the best win.
hornet3d posted Fri, 07 July 2017 at 11:49 AM Online Now!
putrdude posted at 5:47PM Fri, 07 July 2017 - #4309399
We need Daz if only to keep Poser (SM) on it's toes. Competition brings down prices and improves products. May the best win.
Agreed, so we really don't want either to win in the long run because once the competition is gone......
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
EClark1894 posted Fri, 07 July 2017 at 12:47 PM
hornet3d posted at 1:38PM Fri, 07 July 2017 - #4309401
putrdude posted at 5:47PM Fri, 07 July 2017 - #4309399
We need Daz if only to keep Poser (SM) on it's toes. Competition brings down prices and improves products. May the best win.
Agreed, so we really don't want either to win in the long run because once the competition is gone......
Keep poser on it's toes! CRAPPP! There goes my keyboard! Aw well, look, Poser's been asleep at the wheel regarding DAZ and it's competition for the last 20 years. And up until Chris Creek's and Dan Farr's departure from "that company that shall not be named" Poser and "you know who" had a pretty symbiotic relationship going. Still, since that relationship has changed, SM's response has been to largely ignore what's going on and cede control of the market they created. I'm not saying things can't be turned around, but SM HAS to be more proactive about regaining market share.
RorrKonn posted Fri, 07 July 2017 at 3:18 PM
I was hopping the 3D wars would bring the price of Maya down a lot ,it didn't ,danget.
Poser has always been are app ,this forums app ,no matter who owned it. the people here made the plugs ,figured out to get Poser to do this or that. Poser was originally made as a 2D Artist helper not what it is today.
but the ones that did all that have moved on to Houdini,Modo,xBrush etc etc. I would assume Poser knows that and I would assume Poser knows they can't do what Maya can do.I would assume Poser knows eventually where going to Houdini ,Modo,etc etc.
If CGI was a car Maya would be the car ,Poser n "the other" would be the spoilers. Only so much you can do with spoilers.
you can't make movies with just Poser or "the other" wish ya could but ya can't.ya need a car to get there.
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance
Boni posted Fri, 07 July 2017 at 7:58 PM
Ok, one more major us vs them and this thread is locked ... so close.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
Khai-J-Bach posted Sat, 08 July 2017 at 7:58 AM
Windows VS Apple.... Android Vs Apple...
oops..my bad,,, thats 2...
Boni posted Sat, 08 July 2017 at 8:03 AM
Khai-J-Bach ... naughty. but good for a giggle. You all know what I mean.
Boni
"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork
ssgbryan posted Mon, 10 July 2017 at 12:02 AM
Boni posted at 11:01PM Sun, 09 July 2017 - #4309387
Please folks read the TOS on baiting and flame wars. When it comes to comparing Poser and DAZ ... it seems we cannot have a debate without a war. So ... keep your comments on topic.
Especially when we are stuck with your definition of baiting and flame wars, Boni.
A_Sunbeam posted Mon, 10 July 2017 at 4:04 AM
Reminds me of the days when mentioning Windows and Mac in a forum would instantly cause war to break out. I didn't believe in taking sides on that issue, nor do I on this one; it's time people stopped arguing about who did what and when and why and simply use what they prefer to produce their art.
A_Sunbeam posted Wed, 12 July 2017 at 2:20 AM
No-one sems to have noticed that Hivewire is going to be selling its big cats through Daz in future. So how long before they are swallowed up like RDNA?
hornet3d posted Wed, 12 July 2017 at 5:25 AM Online Now!
A_Sunbeam posted at 11:21AM Wed, 12 July 2017 - #4309689
No-one sems to have noticed that Hivewire is going to be selling its big cats through Daz in future. So how long before they are swallowed up like RDNA?
They are just becoming a vendor at Daz and it is the animals that are moving over and will be available exclusively through Daz. Figures like Dawn, Dusk and the rest of the family along with other content not produced by Hivewire will continue to be sold as they are now, from Hivewire.
That is the situation from what I have read, but I do understand you concern.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
ssgbryan posted Wed, 12 July 2017 at 10:26 PM
A_Sunbeam posted at 9:25PM Wed, 12 July 2017 - #4309689
No-one sems to have noticed that Hivewire is going to be selling its big cats through Daz in future. So how long before they are swallowed up like RDNA?
Being that DAZ gave Chris his walking papers (He was one of the 2 folks that founded DAZ), I don't see them swallowing up Hivewire3d.
Dave-So posted Thu, 13 July 2017 at 1:53 PM
I need to backtrack a bit , been on vacation, but hey, all is well here
The main deal is that we still have Poser. No matter where it goes, or not, we still have it. I think the overall usefulness of it has only been surface so far. There seemed to be more people that were really into getting to the meat of the program, figuring out a lot of python stuff, great scripts, etc... but I don;t see many of them talking much anymore. Perhaps many moved on, but that leaves current folks to dig deeper.
Even Bryce is still kicking, and its been not touched in quite some time.
Back to DAZ and content .. is it not possible to export DAZ content, even the newest, as an obj ? i think some of the textures go whacky, but is that not possible?
Humankind has not
woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound
together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle,
1854
cschell posted Thu, 13 July 2017 at 2:24 PM
Yes you can export obj files from DAZ Studio, if the export settings are used properly most textures should be ok, but of course custom materials or IRay settings won't transfer well (or at all)... among a few others. You can also export Poser Cr2's from DS for use in Poser, though the weight maps won't work, and there may be other issues such as morph functionality problems (depending on how the morphs were made in the original figure)...
I also know that the DS figure and rigging tools can be used to create Poser content directly, including Poser-compatible ERC coding and Morphs... I use it to set-up and rig all my figures as Poser-ready content (I had a hard time using Poser's figure set-up room and tools and found DS easier to use, as that's what I started with before learning Poser). Now days I use both DS and Poser as integral parts of my production pipeline...
adzan posted Thu, 13 July 2017 at 2:47 PM
cschell posted at 2:27PM Thu, 13 July 2017 - #4309805
Yes you can export obj files from DAZ Studio... among a few others. You can also export Poser Cr2's from DS for use in Poser...
With exceptions and limitations, just a few I can think of at the moment as I'm destroying dinner lol:
Some Daz Studio scenes do not transfer successfully to obj, fbx etc D/S ignores many modelling issues that Poser doesn't, so you have to fix things.
Items that use Daz Studio instancing don't export to obj format properly - although you can now purchase a script for that - but the items can all still be lumped in the centre of the scene once opened in poser, again requiring fixing.
Newer figures and clothes won't work in Poser once converted to Cr2's.
cschell posted Thu, 13 July 2017 at 3:29 PM
I haven't run in to too many issues exporting raw obj's from DS... but I do know that weight maps won't transfer properly to Poser cr2, and that any specially purpose-built shaders won't either (I used Iray as an example before). I do know that certain other things don't play well between the two programs (I'd written a tutorial on using Poser items in DS a while back that covered most of what doesn't transfer between the two programs).
The DS fbx import/export has been wonky for ages, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't... 3ds import doesn't always work either. I've become very proficient at knowing how to work with DS to make things directly compatible with both programs without needing DSON or special scripts... :)
EClark1849 posted Sun, 16 July 2017 at 11:13 PM
Dave-So posted at 11:09PM Sun, 16 July 2017 - #4309799
I need to backtrack a bit , been on vacation, but hey, all is well here
The main deal is that we still have Poser. No matter where it goes, or not, we still have it. I think the overall usefulness of it has only been surface so far. There seemed to be more people that were really into getting to the meat of the program, figuring out a lot of python stuff, great scripts, etc... but I don;t see many of them talking much anymore. Perhaps many moved on, but that leaves current folks to dig deeper.
Even Bryce is still kicking, and its been not touched in quite some time.
Back to DAZ and content .. is it not possible to export DAZ content, even the newest, as an obj ? i think some of the textures go whacky, but is that not possible?
I have a quick question. What would you guys think of a Poser creator web directory? Basically it would be a list of vendors who create content primarily, but not exclusively for Poser and a link to the store or site where their products can be found? It's something I've been thinking about for a while now. Maybe even doing it like a old Yahoo directory.
prixat posted Mon, 17 July 2017 at 10:16 AM
Hi, did you see poservendors.com? Might be worth contacting PhilC, if you have not already done so, about re-launching that site.
regards
prixat
EClark1894 posted Mon, 17 July 2017 at 12:39 PM
prixat posted at 1:38PM Mon, 17 July 2017 - #4309993
Hi, did you see poservendors.com? Might be worth contacting PhilC, if you have not already done so, about re-launching that site.
Nope, never saw it, heard of it, or contacted Phil C.
adzan posted Mon, 17 July 2017 at 4:10 PM
EClark1894 - I think it may be a lot of work for just one person to make a web site or even just a list of content artists and then try and maintain it.
As a FYI there is also the Poser Content Wiki started by Lyrra Madril - http://posercontent.wikifoundry.com/
and - Poser and Daz Studio Free Resources Wiki - https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page
There was also the Content Creators Guild, which was a site for independent content creators, but it looks like that site has closed - but they are still on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/contentcreatorsguild/
There are some sites out there with links to content information but they are dotted about and people don't know about them.
raven posted Tue, 18 July 2017 at 5:18 AM
PhilC has pretty much retired....
adzan posted Tue, 18 July 2017 at 6:09 AM
raven posted at 6:02AM Tue, 18 July 2017 - #4310068
PhilC has pretty much retired....
I noticed this a while ago too and although he isn't entirely vanished from the community I will miss his sense of humour and amazing knowledge.
I'm glad he's enjoying a new adventure and happily tinkering away in his wood working shed and enjoying life - be happy PhilC and Jan
EClark1894 posted Wed, 19 July 2017 at 8:54 AM
adzan posted at 9:53AM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310033
EClark1894 - I think it may be a lot of work for just one person to make a web site or even just a list of content artists and then try and maintain it.
As a FYI there is also the Poser Content Wiki started by Lyrra Madril - http://posercontent.wikifoundry.com/
and - Poser and Daz Studio Free Resources Wiki - https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page
There was also the Content Creators Guild, which was a site for independent content creators, but it looks like that site has closed - but they are still on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/contentcreatorsguild/
There are some sites out there with links to content information but they are dotted about and people don't know about them.
For clarification, are you saying that my wanting to do this is a bad idea or that there's just no need for it?
prixat posted Wed, 19 July 2017 at 11:09 AM
I think poservendors.com is too good a domain name to ignore and the site is set up to do exactly what you stated, it deserves resurrecting. Go for it. 
regards
prixat
adzan posted Wed, 19 July 2017 at 12:11 PM
EClark1894 posted at 11:51AM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310176
adzan posted at 9:53AM Wed, 19 July 2017 - #4310033
EClark1894 - I think it may be a lot of work for just one person to make a web site or even just a list of content artists and then try and maintain it.
As a FYI there is also the Poser Content Wiki started by Lyrra Madril - http://posercontent.wikifoundry.com/
and - Poser and Daz Studio Free Resources Wiki - https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page
There was also the Content Creators Guild, which was a site for independent content creators, but it looks like that site has closed - but they are still on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/contentcreatorsguild/
There are some sites out there with links to content information but they are dotted about and people don't know about them.
For clarification, are you saying that my wanting to do this is a bad idea or that there's just no need for it?
Not saying it's a bad idea - or that there isn't a need - just saying a static list would be a lot of work and that there may be other options that may be easier to manage, especially with more than one person adding and managing data.
A wiki, a multi user online data base or even google documents, a Content Management System website with any number of forums, data management or community plugins are all just suggestions that can have more than one person enter the data.
