Hi... I know it's not up to the admin...it's the merchant's choice, but I am so frustrated at the over-abundance of DS items... I love to shop, am one of the best "shop-a-holics" for 3d items...have been for YEARS...and I used to spend at least $100 to $200 HERE per month! But now, I may spend $75 at most, maybe every 2 or 3 months... My favorite talented merchants have just given up on Poser...and not even the easier to create textures for - good old Poser 10 (I use Poser 2014, which is 10 with bells and whistles)... while Poser 11's superfly is a different animal, meaning the merchants have double the work to make a product for BOTH Poser firefly and superfly, there are STILL plenty of us dedicated Poser 10 users, or even with P11 - FIREFLY render users... I just wish there was a way to get more clothing for poser- let alone for HiveWire's Dusk and Dawn, Diva and Luna figures... I do buy dynamic clothing to use for Dawn and Dusk because I can often get V4's clothes to fit that way...or Cross Dresser....

PLEASE - Sveva, Fabiana, RPublishing, (spell?) BillyT, or Idler 168, lilflame, out of touch, ilona, ironman13, Powerage, to name a few....won't you consider 'coming home' to Poser sometimes?

THANKS GOODNESS for merchants like Flink, and Shaaramuse3D, and Karanta (sometimes) still making items for Poser! I also appreciate the skin resources for Dawn by 3Dream, the hair and brows, etc. from Buscuits... so I still have a few reasons for checking out the New Poser section every other week or so...

I just had to speak up for the 'silent majority'... Poser is NOT going away... there are still many of us older users who's brains can't deal with DS, and love Poser... heck, I myself am still LEARNING poser.... I now LOVE the Cloth room (and I am even learning to convert some conforming clothes to dynamic, because of the desperate need for fantasy or period clothing for DUSK, etc..... and writing up tutorials with pictures... - like if I CAN DO IT, ANYONE CAN kind of thing...I'm also learning the HAIR ROOM, no less...

Thanks for listening.... Renderosity is still one of THE gallery/community places I use most often...

Lyne Lyne's Creation

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

PS I have most of Propschick's that are posers too... the thing with use poser fantatics, no matter how HUGE our runtimes are, we always WANT to buy bright shiny new things!!!

THANK YOU also to Ali and the HR # hairs...I buy 99% of those!

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

I too am a Poser user, and I miss the times of tons of new releases for Poser. I'll point the vendors in the direction of this post. It might do some good.

It needed to be said and thank you Lyne!

Remember jenn the emails I sent you almost 2 years ago about all the over production of easy to made stuff? That is what I meant.

I don't understand what you are saying @greenpots. What do you mean easy made stuff? Send me an email if you do not want to post it here.

I couldn't agree with this more. I've been using Poser for 20+ years, it would at least be cool to see more daz pops switched over to Poser.

I came, I rendered, I'm still broke.

I love new Poser stuff too, though for a little while there won't be much of it for me because the money has to go to college books and I have to save for a new computer and a few other things that are more urgent than new Poser toys.

My products for the foreseeable future here will be Poser only. New and unusual bicycle for Poser coming very soon I hope, plus textures for some of the V4 and M4 clothing here. I cannot yet use Dawn or Dusk, not till I get a new computer and that won't happen until near the end of 2018 or early 2019.

I hope you will check out Tempesta3d's store and the Business Suit IV for V4 and Business Suit V for V4. 3D-Age has a lot of clothing of varying types for V4. Textures for those two suits are my current Poser work projects, to turn the two suits into a mix-n-match set. I aim to make them look like serious business suits, not overly fancy but very smart. Japanese silk shirts, wool and silk suit fabrics, that kind of thing. Whether those appeal or not I hope you get lots more Poser content for your runtime.

I started in Poser, and have recently, in the last half dozen years or so, adopted Daz as well.

But I will ALWAYS continue to support Poser, and have NEVER stopped supporting it either.

~Wolfie~

Helping everyone is the most rewarding failure you'll ever experience.
- Ray Augé (~Wolfie~'s hubby)

Anything is more stable than Windows . . .
--- Even a relationship based purely on sex!
- Pam Augé (~Wolfie~)

No meat was harmed during the making of this TV dinner.
- Pam Augé (~Wolfie~)

And thank you Lyne for your support over the years!!!

~Wolfie~

I will never stop doing items for Poser myself, as it was my first 3d love and still is. I am in fact currently ending a M4 character. I still have many requests for V4 also and I adore Dawn and Dusk and I think I am one of the very few who makes characters for Pauline and Paul. Karanta is incredible with her creations for them <3

I am so happy to read that people still love Poser and support us content creators who use it. Let's keep the love on, I am all for it!

🐱😸😹😺😻😼😽😾😿🙀

This is 10% Luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain and a 100% reason to remember the name!

thanks to Lyne for the post. My few products (add-on) are all for Poser. Surely I would like to see many more beautiful models built for Poser to work on it

My Store

My Freestuff

Thanks so much Jenn and everyone!! Wolfie, I do buy your items, thanks! :) There is a lot of talk over at HiveWire, about exporting obj's out of DAZ to be set up in Poser, but I don't know all the technical end of that...HW venders work very hard and often get help from each other on how to make DS items for poser too.

and FYI - I do talk about Rendo - Poser products and credit them at HiveWire and in my own home gallery too!

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Unless a vendor is still into poser they will make things that will give them the biggest return, which I can totally understand, The only reason I still make poser content is that I am still love Poser, but I make more sales with Daz content. I have great hopes that Project E will reinvigorate Poser.

I am a dedicated Poser user and content creator. I would LOVE to see more new clothing for Poser that I do expansions for...

I supported Poser for a very long time and would like to support Poser again if it is profitable.

I think part of the problem is what character is profitable to support in Poser? There are now so many Poser characters and of course most of us are supporting G3 and G8.

I could not find a way to support G8 in Poser. She did not bend properly when I tried working with her. G3 is fine but profitability was not so great although it may have changed.

It seems to me Poser users are still using V4?

I think the best solution that would bring ALL of us profitability, (vendors and Renderosity) would be if Blacksmith could convert FROM G3 TO V4.

PBR: Since a lot of vendors are using PBR materials ByteFactory3D PBR-Emulator FIREFLY will quickly convert PBR materials to Firefly and can be used in Poser 9 +.

I have used it and it works very well. It's easy to use and quick to learn. The merchant version is a bit pricey. Maybe ByteFactory3D would run a sale for us. That would give us the PBR quality in Poser.

Basically a combination of a Blacksmith G3-to V4 and the PBR emulator would give vendors a fairly quick easy way to convert our G3-G8 products to V4 with the quality of our PBR materials that would be accessible to Poser user from Poser 9+. We could still do our base development for DS and have a quick conversion path to Poser. I think we could increase both Renderosity and vendor profit per product with that path.

Cheerio lululee

Although I'm not very prolific and my stuff - such as it is - is somewhat niche, or specialist, I'm fully committed to supporting Poser and will be releasing more content later in the year, both free and for pay. I've had - and am still having - a lot of RL stuff to deal with, which is playing hob with my concentration. A little free, quiet time is all I need to get things moving along.

I can fully understand the frustration of Poser users, seeing as how users of other software (ahem) have lots of shiny new things to play with on a daily basis. As it stands, my stuff is, and will continue to be non figure specific. More to the point, I don't make clothes, characters, shoes or stuff like that, so anything of mine should be able to be used alongside any figure.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

I continue to support Poser.

I don't know if people would be interested, but I thought I'd mention them just in case. I just released three sets of "Fabric Frenzy" material sets, which are all tileable textures (including ALL PBR texture maps like diffuse, normal, height, specular, gloss, metal, and roughness), and preset shaders for both FireFly and SuperFly. There are cottons, leathers, and wools (and I have many more planned). Since they are tileable, they can be used on just about any clothing and will render in both FireFly and SuperFly. This isn't meant to be an advertisement, but they can be used to breathe some SuperFly life into older clothing that doesn't have SuperFly shaders. And the cottons in particular are designed so you can easily change colors or use your own fabric patterns while still keeping all the underlying bumps, normals, etc.

And then Chuck (aka Nerd3D) and I created Maisie, which is a weight-mapped toon figure for Poser. A LOT of content was created for her as well. I realize a lot of people aren't into toons, but she really is a lot of fun to play with.

As for PBR textures, Poser 11 can easily use them, by the way. The PoserSurface node uses specular and gloss maps for shine and reflection, whereas the Physical Surface Node is happiest with metallic and roughness maps. Use the PoserSurface node to render in FireFly, and use the Physical Surface node to render in SuperFly. FF and SF shaders can live happily side by side.

I plan to continue creating stuff for Poser ... but I am not sure which figures everyone is interested in.

Couldn't agree more! I've bought stuff recently for the first time in years (Just got back into Poser from a VERY long hiatus) and every time I peruse the MP, it's G8, G8, G8, G8, DS Only...

HELLOooooooo.. we're still quite a few Poser users out here.

I have an idea that all the fancy DForce-stuff would be REALLY easy to market to Poser users as well. We've after all had Dynamic Cloth since Poser 5! - but nooo .. weird unusable formats only. If the merchants that make DForce stuff would just supply the OBJ ... I can clothify that really easy ... sigh

Oh and another thing that REALLY irks me... Something Rosity should actually work on... "My Picks" in the MP .. are 99% DS only stuff... Helloo again.. I'm listed as a Poser user. Show me POSER STUFF. I am NOT going to switch to DS, the damned thing won't even RUN properly on my computer. Show me the new things for POSER. And CHANGE the Sponsored ads to show POSER STUFF. Surely it's not rocket science.

So please, vendors .. keep making stuff for the Gen 4 figures. M4 and V4. At the moment, I'm rendering an image with Mike 3 - but I do realise no one dares to touch that old stuff with a bargepole. Too bad, really, but well... I'll happily settle for something for his younger cousin ;) (just remember with the subdivision feature in P11, the older figures DO get a new life. They look really NICE in Superfly. I mean .. this is Posette ...

Hum personally...I always make my content for Poser and I will try to always do it...but you know...it's the demand that makes the offer, and a lot of customers go on DS (because its free, because its new, etc) so a lot of vendors make content for DS...I can say that I suffer a lot of that because when you put days and days to make a product for Poser, and you finally see that a lot of people go on DS more and more...in ignoring Poser content, it's a bit discouraging (financially and mentally)... so I can understand that vendors do more and more content for DS because I'm thinking to do the same thing a day or another...I think its a 2 ways problem...

I should buy poser and train myself but it will take a long while before I'm competent enough to release a product that is poser ready.

As I have told a friend.

I dont know the first thing about Poser. I've never used it more then 2 hours of my life. I would need to learn how Poser works. How to export. Import. Lighting, surfaces, its a whole other universe. I dont even know how to "pose" in poser. Let alone make high quality Poser ready materials for Genesis 2-3-8.

I have stuff up in MY STORE for buyers (it's for lightwave 3d users). I am however, looking to get my products rigged in poser for poser native users, so if you are a poser content creator who can convert my lightwave files to poser content, please email me at: yakecen@hotmail.com Perhaps we can do a 50/50 split deal on renderosity if you have a merchant account on here.

K, well I bought Poser... But its going to take some time before I really know what I'm doing.

Folks, i am still in it as a content creator. Still doing poser stuff. ANd love it. So check out my store folks....

3-D-Cs Facebook Page: 3-D-C on Facebook

Check the K-Azonica Story and World Evolving: K-Azonica

Check my website and products and the large freebie section: 3-D-C

Thank you Lyne for this heartwarming post!

Poser vendors can definitely use some more appreciation, It takes a lot of courage and faith to swim against the current instead of to go with the flow.

My 2D&3D Store

My Youtube Channel

I'm really sorry Lyne for your frustration that I understand very well. As you quote me I must explain to you the reasons why I do not develop more for Poser.

1/ The first and most frustrating reason for me is that I can not use Poser anymore. Indeed my Poser 2012 was installed on my old computer which unfortunately went out of order. And I have no backup of the installation file, and unlike DAZ or we can download years after the content that we bought it is not the case at Smith Micro. I bought the latest version of Poser and was so disappointed with the Pauline character that I asked for a refund and it motivated me to learn DS and devoted myself to him.

2/ Before I was only doing the Poser, despite a multitude of messages that asked me to do for DS. Doing for DS and Poser would imply almost double the workl, for prices lower and lower in this market, it is not viable. And if I had to change for DS, it was by constraint because the sales for Poser were done less and less.

3/ The day or Poser will be able to be delivered with decent characters, certainly that I would be interested again.

4/ As mentioned above, supply and demand are the basic rules of the market. And currently it is clear that this benefits to DS. Poser vegetates for years and from what I read, it does not seem to move in the right direction.

In an ideal world, DS would not exist and DAZ would have bought Poser and improved it, today the customer would not be cut in half.


```I still love Poser.
But it was easier to create conforming clothes for non weightmapping figures.
Nowadays it´s frustrating, you can add jcms and more jcms and Morphs and you will still not be satisfied.
When posing and shaping you get pokethroughs.
I don´t know if those pieces can pass QA, maybe it is normal that Poser User will use Fitting room and morphbrush.
But i don´t know, so i stop doing stuff for new Poser figures. Last Thing was a Leggings for PE and i have Problems with the dynamic and conforming Piece.
I bought a few easier to handle figures, maybe i will do some stuff for that.
But for 5 - 10 Poser customers it´s just to expensive this long workflow. 
I personally don´t think that V4 or M4 Need new stuff...maybe fresh textures.
I will see if i can update some old stuff.

uhmmm, seems to me that Poser is become more of a help-youself software, so users tend to be folk who can twiddle and tweak settings a bit for themselves. Which means Poser content should be more basic - not sub-par qulaity - but that users can and will make adjustments as they build their own scenes. I think - just my own opinion - that Poser users need not be catered to based on the old plug-and-play content model. Perhaps this is something that Renderosity business folk can discuss with content creators.

Eternal Hobbyist

I'm selling models in Poser format since 2004. I will continue to do so since I don't model characters or outfits. Nothing in my store is obsolete (ok, maybe lower polys or textures). I am aware of demands from DS customers, but if I create only shader files for 3delight or Iray they can use my models with full capacity. So, Poser in first place, full support for DS.

infinity10 posted at 11:29AM Sun, 04 March 2018 - #4325534

uhmmm, seems to me that Poser is become more of a help-youself software, so users tend to be folk who can twiddle and tweak settings a bit for themselves. Which means Poser content should be more basic - not sub-par qulaity - but that users can and will make adjustments as they build their own scenes. I think - just my own opinion - that Poser users need not be catered to based on the old plug-and-play content model. Perhaps this is something that Renderosity business folk can discuss with content creators.

Yes... and they do think if the product works after they tweak things, that every vendor can do that too and upload products. But those products don´t pass QA. For QA the product has to be better and work without much tweaking. Personally i like it too when it works well without tweaking. I have a lot of stuff that i don´t upload, i can work with that very good, but it would not pass QA. For me that Weightmapping in Poser was really the Dead for my conforming clothes. But, maybe thats only my Problem..whatever..i am also not on that vendor list above ..lol. So...doesn´t matter at all if i do something or not.

powerage posted at 11:36AM Sun, 04 March 2018 - #4325532

3/ The day or Poser will be able to be delivered with decent characters, certainly that I would be interested again.

Exactly, we need Poser to realy fight back... they can't expect content creators will do the job for them if they don't invest enough money to lead the market! Poser is still amazing but we need outstanding characters to work on.

I've heard the complaints about less Poser content way too many times... I've been there myself too before becoming an admin... but it's not only the vendors fault and that has to be said as well!

Poser users stopped buying Poser products even when available. I am mostly an addons creator myself and I refuse to believe that my quality had fallen so much to be abandoned even by my most loyal customers, yet it happened. I lost more than half my montly income by being loyal and 100% Poser - fell off top-sellers for the first time in the last 2 decades!

When the monthly revenue of your income doesn't make ends meet.. you are not left with much choices I'm afraid!

I will never turn to DS but I can't expect my store to support my family anymore either or be paid for my time on any new product I might create!

This is why I no longer blame any other vendor who's turned completely to DS & I've settled with the fact that from this point on I'll be just a "hobbist" Poser vendor .. no longer a pro!

Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

It sounds like the solution is products that work on both. I notice a lot of vendors point out how to get their products to work in the alternate software.
I have both DS and Poser, but I am very much a Poser over DS person (having learned Poser first).

Hello everybody!

I am a seller here and unfortunately I can only provide products for DAZ Studio or files in OBJ. Poser is very expensive to purchase and difficult for me to learn how to use it. I had the opportunity to test it a long time ago a trial version without success. However my sales partner owns Poser. Maybe he can convert my products from DS to Poser!

On my freebies you can see which side I'm on. I'm a fan of V4 and I just think she is the best figure for Poser. I'm not really a seller anymore, because of my health I just went in pension, but I'm still a poser user and I check every day if I see something new that I COULD buy. It is right COULD buy, because I would buy a lot more if there would be a chance. I'm now since 2004 in Poser and I bought really nearly everything what looked good and I could use for pinups. I wrote to a lot of seller if they could not make some things also for Poser, but got always the answer, that would be too much work. All the years Poser user financed the living(I know that best) for a lot of merchants and now they left us down like a hot potato. I will not give names but I'm really disapointed. My folders are full with stuff from this merchants and now we are for them too much work. If I see how many times my freebies are downloaded I can tell you also a lot of new people love poser but have so less choice to get clothes and hair for them. It is annoying to see all the great hair OOT makes now and we have no chance to get at least sometime one inbetween also for V4. Or look at the sexy new close for the new generation?? We would also like to dress our character that way. We don't expect the same amount of stuff for Poser than for DAZ but at least sometime inbetween also the topseller could make a nice outfit or hair also for Poser. It want help that we protest,but at least I did say what I feel!!!

I love Poser and I work with the 10 it will continue to be my 3d program, although I also work with Daz, but in Poser you can do more than in Daz. Yes, and I think it's a pity that there are almost only DAZ_ stuff here. I'm always looking for something new but you can hardly find anything anymore. It's a shame therefore. Therefore, I also appeal to the manufacturers why do you do only Daz stuff.?

And thanks Lyne for opening this topic

Ich liebe Poser und ich arbeite mit dem 10 es wird auch weiterhin mein 3d Programm bleiben ,obwohl ich auch mit Daz arbeite , aber in Poser kann man einfach mehr machen als in Daz. Ja und ich finde es auch sehr schade das es fast nur noch DAZ_ Sachen hier gibt.Ich bin ständig auf der Suche nach neuem doch man findet fast nichts mehr es ist sehr schade darum. Daher appelliere ich auch mal an die Hersteller warum macht ihr nur noch Daz Sachen.?

Und danke Lyne das du dieses Thema eröffnet hast

I'm on poser side altogether, and the things I make are for Poser. The abundance of G8 stuff here is the main reason I'm shopping so very little at the MP... that being said, maybe V4 especially has just been too long around? There are already so many things to be had, especially if we talk of skimpy clothing (although in some departments, i.e. really decent period clothing, there's really little to be had). Another Story are Dusk and Dawn. It's really a pity that those two are more or less left alone.

I began 3D with Poser a long time ago and made some stuff for V4. But really I don't like their render engine at all. It's so difficult to get good materials, even after hours of trying. Daz is easier to use, the workspace is clearer, so I understand that lots of people go to daz with their Genesis figure who is very versatile. But, I don't like their politics concerning the game market. I will try to make my items for both or include the obj files if this can help. I mostly do props, so if there is anyone out there knowing materials in Poser, I would be glad to work with.

All our products are POSER content, lately including Superfly and Firefly support. The sales for Poser native content are (to say the least) poor during the past 4 or 5 years, but I stick with Poser because in my oppinion (over the past 15 years) Poser is the better software, in that it leaves all the liberty to the user, while DAZ-Studio has more and more closed up, using cryptografic file formats, preventing users from 'working under the hood, if they like'. I do use DAZ-Studio as a teacher at school, because for students a freeware software is just a good start. So I do know DAZ-Studio quite well. However I hate the philosophy of automatization and making things more and more complicated so that new users become completely depending on automated libraries and one click whatever, instead of learning a deeper understanding, looking into cr2 or obj files and learn how they work. So I tell my students, DAZ-Studio is fine for a quick first introduction and quickly getting 'click one button to quickly make pseudo art' solutions, but if you want to be in full control of everything, go for professional open software like Poser, or even Lightwave, because they don't restrict you with cryptic file formats which can nowhere be found documented... Even Firefly can use PBR materials, Superfly even more, and if you want more you can still go for Lux-Render (through Reality plugin or whatever else), Poser leaves you all the liberty. My 5 pennies, sorry for my anger, am frustrated about the aggressive marketing strategy of DAZ spilling DAZ-Studio for free to make customers depending on their expensive content, and to starve good professional software from the market. Monopoly at its worst... I'm now abandoning content creation as a real income. But I prefer giving up instead of surrendering to DAZ. Others may chose the money instead, its fine, its everybody's individual choice. The Project E character is a killer, it is what was needed so desperately for Poser. A male character of the same make would be all there is needed for the next years to make awsome use in Poser. But still there are customers who are just too lazy to learn a little about handling 3D content, and who prefer the 'one click fully automized' environment in DAZ-Studio. Telling 'I want to make art, but I don't want to learn or read a manual, my art must come out of the machine with a single click of a button. Automated clothing, automated pose, automates lighting, automated camera position, am I not such a great artist???'. Wonderful new world of DAZ Studio, congratulations.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't render faster than your artistic Guardian Angel can fly... ;-)

Poser 5 to Poser Pro 11, Lightwave 11.6.3, Substance Painter, Substance Designer, Substance B2M, Filter Forge 9, Blacksmith3D 6 Pro, Easy Pose 2, UV-Layout Pro, UVMapper Pro, Paintshop Pro 2019, Python, Pz3editor, PHI Hierarchy Builder, Headshop 12, Lux-Render, Reality3D, numerous utility programs

I still use only Poser. All of my remaining store products were made in Poser. I haven't been very active in content creation due to personal circumstances. In early 2016, the computer malfunctioned. It took me until August 2016 to get back up and running with a Poser-capable, but low-end PC. In early 2017, the external drive that housed my runtimes malfunctioned. At the same time, I found my backup external unresponsive. To add insult to injury, this PC can only read about one in every three content backup CDs or DVDs. So, I've been rebuilding runtimes from scratch. I'm troubleshooting each item as I go, so it's very slow going indeed...

As a customer, I buy Poser stuff. As the cost of real world necessities have gone up, my Poser budget has been ever-shrinking because Poser-related items price have risen too and each dollar can only be spent once.

Dear Lynn I feel desperately exactly[Place display text here](Place link URL here) the same

greenpots posted at 1:16AM Mon, 05 March 2018 - #4325495

Remember jenn the emails I sent you almost 2 years ago about all the over production of easy to made stuff? That is what I meant.

Yeah Greenpots, I did the same in a content creator survey run by Renderosity, about a year ago. It didn't help. Place is crowded with that kind of stuff, while products which take a month or so to develop quickly get burried in the marketplace and bring no refund of all the efforts put into them. That's why I'm giving up.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't render faster than your artistic Guardian Angel can fly... ;-)

But ... guys ... "nobody" uses the native Poser figures anyway. Stop pulling out your hair over the weightmapping issue and make some stuff for V4/M4. There's still plenty of mileage left in those.

Stop making it harder. It's not.

Also, props and scenes for Poser wilk at least load in DS. Not so the other way around. Poser can't read .daz or whatever they're called. But DS can open .pp2's.

So why cut yourself off from a big userbase by making everything DS exclusive? Be INCLUSIVE - and sell more!

ByteFactory3D posted at 1:07PM Mon, 05 March 2018 - #4325576

All our products are POSER content, lately including Superfly and Firefly support. The sales for Poser native content are (to say the least) poor during the past 4 or 5 years, but I stick with Poser because in my oppinion (over the past 15 years) Poser is the better software, in that it leaves all the liberty to the user, while DAZ-Studio has more and more closed up, using cryptografic file formats, preventing users from 'working under the hood, if they like'. I do use DAZ-Studio as a teacher at school, because for students a freeware software is just a good start. So I do know DAZ-Studio quite well. However I hate the philosophy of automatization and making things more and more complicated so that new users become completely depending on automated libraries and one click whatever, instead of learning a deeper understanding, looking into cr2 or obj files and learn how they work. So I tell my students, DAZ-Studio is fine for a quick first introduction and quickly getting 'click one button to quickly make pseudo art' solutions, but if you want to be in full control of everything, go for professional open software like Poser, or even Lightwave, because they don't restrict you with cryptic file formats which can nowhere be found documented... Even Firefly can use PBR materials, Superfly even more, and if you want more you can still go for Lux-Render (through Reality plugin or whatever else), Poser leaves you all the liberty. My 5 pennies, sorry for my anger, am frustrated about the aggressive marketing strategy of DAZ spilling DAZ-Studio for free to make customers depending on their expensive content, and to starve good professional software from the market. Monopoly at its worst... I'm now abandoning content creation as a real income. But I prefer giving up instead of surrendering to DAZ. Others may chose the money instead, its fine, its everybody's individual choice. The Project E character is a killer, it is what was needed so desperately for Poser. A male character of the same make would be all there is needed for the next years to make awsome use in Poser. But still there are customers who are just too lazy to learn a little about handling 3D content, and who prefer the 'one click fully automized' environment in DAZ-Studio. Telling 'I want to make art, but I don't want to learn or read a manual, my art must come out of the machine with a single click of a button. Automated clothing, automated pose, automates lighting, automated camera position, am I not such a great artist???'. Wonderful new world of DAZ Studio, congratulations.

Are you serious? This post is insulting and inaccurate in so many ways... :/

Is this just a free for all thread now? Or do the TOS apply?

JudibugDesigns posted at 8:23PM Sun, 04 March 2018 - #4325507

I am a dedicated Poser user and content creator. I would LOVE to see more new clothing for Poser that I do expansions for...

I noticed that...I love the little shoes...is there any way you can set them up for HiveWire's Luna? I would love the set for her. :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

I think one big problem for creating content for a figure is that IF there isn't much content, the figure gets used less... the more content, the more folks will USE a particular character... I myself can't stand Poser's native figures, BUT there is a LOT of users now using Dawn... yes, the clothing for Dawn, Dusk, etc. use weight mapping, and I've herd there is a learning curve... however, there are a LOT of extremely helpful people to give advice and the 'how to' deal with those issues over at HiveWire... Frankly Dawn and Dusk are the most use-able figures in that they pose beautifully RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, without those pesky distortions!! One of our merchants - Lully (who sells here too) does DYNAMIC clothes for Dawn and so I THINK those don't require weight mapping?! Creating SKINS/CHARACTERS for her, Dusk and the others would of course benefit tremendously from some of the gorgeous skins I often see here at Rendo!!!!!!!!! I often wish venders like Madalerium (spell) would make skins for her.... 3Dream has the merchant resources to get that started. I bought the skin map conversion software, but it simply does not do the job very well, so I don't like to use it (the eyes do not end up where they should, etc.) I would much rather have skins made FOR the HiveWire humans!!!

Jenn - what are the folks talking about when they say that Poser items won't pass the QA because they are not ready to use without tweaking? I am confused on what they are saying... poser users love BOTH - things that can be used 'right out of the box' AND many just love to also 'tweak' items in poser BECAUSE THEY CAN! I LOVE to LEARN, it keeps my mind young... the tweaking I do most often is simply to change some settings in the material room to my personal preference = like turning down specularity... or I open a texture in photoshop simply to change the color hue to work for a particular piece.... I love being able to 'get under the hood' with Poser...

ANYWAY, it still seems to me the bottom line is MORE SALES would come along if there were MORE PRODUCTS to choose from? I do understand that the younger generation (who grew up with a computer to use starting at age 5) just grab the FREE Daz Studio and go... and THOSE people would, I guess, want products to just use as they come...they don't want to do any tweaking...

A big plus for me, is that firefly is VERY FAST (way faster and doesn't tie up my computer so I have to go without while it's rendering for HOURS - as I have heard it takes to get a really high quality render out of DS)....

I KNOW that sales push the market, I really do understand folks!! But when things are just not made for poser so we don't have any CHOICE in what we'd like to buy....well it's sort of a self fulfilling thing... not enough to BUY, so sales are low...

I think V4 has run her course... I bought ALL THE FIXES that folks made for her poor body over the years so I could have what I get OUT OF THE BOX with Dawn... but every time I try and go back to use her, I just get frustrated, because she is just NOT as posing friendly as Dawn is...

AND A NOTE TO ALL THE POSER MERCHANTS who have posted here...I have bought many of your products as well, and I appreciate it so much! I think you would not continue making poser content if it were not selling fairly well?!

I realize that right now, that the number of Poser users are much less, compared to DS... Smith Micro has messed up BUT IS NOT GIVING UP on that software...and to me the SERIOUS artist prefer Poser...yes, it takes a bit longer to learn, (as I said, I'm STILL learning, and LOVE TO LEARN) but it's worth it to me because I am a serious (yes, hobby, but serious hobbyist) ARTIST... who also does not have TIME to let her machine sit rendering for hours...

Thank you again, to the merchants who strive to do Poser format items!

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

So, I wrote a sizable post here yesterday and the deleted it by accident. It was too long for me to replicate, but here's the short version of what I said:

Poser isn't free and content it comes with is ugly by default (I'm talking about character models of course). You need to purchase the software and content that's bearable to look at (like V4). DS on the other hand is free itself and its default content is better looking.
DS seems to be more actively evolving and it's going in the right direction, improving content and adding features and doing it more frequently - it has a promising future.
For a new content creator there's more learning material for DS. The content creation tutorials for Poser are severely outdated. - although this could be just my personal experience. Nevertheless, it has influenced my decision to go in DS's direction.

All that said, I still have planned to expand my future content creation to include Poser, but that's not due to developers at Smith Micro doing anything that would encourage me.

For what it's worth, the few things Sanbie and I have left in our store are for V4 and Poser, although they do work in DS as well.. Thank you for this post Lyne, much appreciated.. We need a like button on posts so we can click it if we appreciate what someone says

Thanks for starting this thread Lyne :)

I want to answer, because I read the sentence: "THANKS GOODNESS for merchants like Flink, and Shaaramuse3D, and Karanta (sometimes) still making items for Poser!" Thanks for this kind words, but I don't understand the "sometimes" behind my name. All my 3D products are 100% for Poser. I never release DS products, because I usually seldom use DS.

You will find products for a lot of different figures in my store: V4, Miki 3+4, PE, Luna, Dawn, Dusk, Maisie - just to name a few of them. There are even still a few older products for A3, NearMe, Laura and the K4 Kids for example in my store.

I had a longer pause in making something new, because I did other (non Poser / DS related ) work. The only time (long ago) I did DS products was when I made comissioned products for the Daz Platinum Club.

But I have to admit that now and then I am thinking about making something for G8/DS. The only reason I don't do it is that I really prefer to work with Poser. I'm even one of the few people who are making something for Pauline :)

Sales were a lot better some time ago. I'm in the lucky position that I also do other mostly 2D related work and don't rely on the money I earn with Poser products. If this would be my only income there is no way I could make a living with it any more. Not even if I would work 12+ hours a day / 7 days a week ;)

(sorry about my bad English)

My Renderosity Store

..... maybe you will ask yourself "why is she still making Poser stuff if the situation is not that great" :)

The main reason is that I still love Poser. And I highly doubt this will ever change. It's not just about the money ;)

My Renderosity Store

I keep making my products for Poser. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vendor/JeffersonAF

karanta posted at 2:01PM Mon, 05 March 2018 - #4325598

..... maybe you will ask yourself "why is she still making Poser stuff if the situation is not that great" :)

The main reason is that I still love Poser. And I highly doubt this will ever change. It's not just about the money ;)

Amen to that! I still make Poser Products from time to time (though mostly freebies because ... well I've always made freebies ...) and they sell laughably bad (eventhough I do think they're nice items, really) - but then I'm not depending on it as an income. I make them because I can, and any $ earned usually gets spent right here again L I do love Instore Credit.

I think it's a shame that not more people do nice DYNAMIC clothes for Poser. It's really not that difficult to use dynamics, and at the moment people are going mad about D-Force. Sprouting out items for that. And for the DS only people -_-

Yes, Dynamic clothes has a slight learning curve, compared to just "load and render" - but really .. that's what Poser users are GOOD at. At least thoswe of us who has been along for the ride all since Poser 4. Probably newcomers find it confusing. More so if they come from DS where it IS more of a Click and render solution. And nothing wrong with that. I just think Poser users are more familiar with DIY - we've HAD to in the past.

I like to pick things apart and use them in a new way. My latest picture features a single dandelion I pulled out of a bunch of Flinks Dandelions ... with the Grouping Tool. Poser has so many possibilities that many people simply overlook, or are afraid to use. But it's a very very powerful tool, once you utilize all the options.

So think out of the box. Both as content providers and as consumers. You will get more bang for your buck :)

Well, my 0.02, for whatever it might worth...

The thing I find frustrating is that you have all these static props that are Studio specific. Is it too much to ask for even an obj version with textures that I can use in Poser? We have vendors out there who provide in both platforms, but suddenly it seems that others — ones who made the names and reputation off Poser users — are now exclusively Studio, despite requests otherwise. So fine, folks: give me an obj and some textures, and I'll do it myself. Why is that so difficult? Hell, even in Studio, you can export something out as a cr2 — is there some reason why vendors dont even want to do that much? We're not talking a lot of time involved in an export like that, are we?

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

SeanMartin posted at 7:54PM Mon, 05 March 2018 - #4325628

We have vendors out there who provide in both platforms, but suddenly it seems that others — ones who made the names and reputation off Poser users — are now exclusively Studio, despite requests otherwise.

I'm just going to say that Vendors, like anyone, make their reputation off their own work, quality and how they deal with others. They may have earned their income from Poser users initially, after all for a long time it was the only option. But earnings and reputation are different things. If they became Top Sellers with names that are easily recognized and garnered a good reputation it was due to the products they produced and/or how they handled customer issues, etc.

Most of them are still creating that same level of quality, they just switched software. If they aren't making their money from Poser users now there is probably a reason, which Rena hit on precisely.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

"Vendors, like anyone, make their reputation off their own work, quality and how they deal with others"

I'll simply direct you to your third point and leave it at that.

But I would like an answer about why static props arent available in both platforms. Even if their primary income source is Studio, why would anyone want to ignore the potential secondary business?Hell, even Stonemason finally figured that one out.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I don't make props, but honestly it does seem like it would be feasible to at least include or offer an obj. Maybe it's a pricing issue here? If they added it to their product it might bump the pricing higher according to the requirements here and if they just offer it on it's own they might have to price it higher than they feel is feasible for an obj due to the minimum pricing?

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Well, I do wish one of the vendors or the store staff here would address it, because it seems like a fairly simple deal.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Honestly, I have never thought about to add the objectfile or an cr2 to a Daz product, because it is a DAZ product. Honestly, why do you not Export the object by yourself ? It´s one click for an objectfile and the Export as cr2 is easy too. But it is not so easy to get the cr2 work in Poser. I have a lot of pieces i tried and they will not work after that converting. Poser will read the bones and weightmaps not correct and the scaling is not working too. And here start´s the -- i have to do the product again and start by 0. And than it is not the same Quality like in Daz, so i have to split the product in 2 ,than customers are crying..lalala That is a neverending Story. Years ago everyone was crying that i only do Poser stuff and can´t do the Daz files. At the end where is the fun for me as a developer when everyone is crying ? My 2 Cent

Sean Martin Did you tried this script

Exporter?

TrekkieGrrrl posted at 12:30PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325583

Also, props and scenes for Poser wilk at least load in DS. Not so the other way around. Poser can't read .daz or whatever they're called. But DS can open .pp2's.

So why cut yourself off from a big userbase by making everything DS exclusive? Be INCLUSIVE - and sell more!

Up until now I've not responded in this thread, but TrekkieGrrrl made a very good point. Poser compatible content CAN be used in DS. I don't have the most recent version of DS (haven't upgraded past DS4.0 Pro and the original Genesis), but I still have all the content installed which I purchased over the 8 years I was using DS2 and DS3 Advanced (my largest Runtime) exclusively, and I CAN access and use it all since getting back to Poser with P9 and PP11.

I could probably count on one hand the number of items I bought over those 8 years that were exclusively DS products, so I don't understand why products have to be made exclusively for DS, and not usable in Poser. That's just my 2¢, FWIW.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

Miss B posted at 2:23PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325694

TrekkieGrrrl posted at 12:30PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325583

Also, props and scenes for Poser wilk at least load in DS. Not so the other way around. Poser can't read .daz or whatever they're called. But DS can open .pp2's.

So why cut yourself off from a big userbase by making everything DS exclusive? Be INCLUSIVE - and sell more!

Up until now I've not responded in this thread, but TrekkieGrrrl made a very good point. Poser compatible content CAN be used in DS. I don't have the most recent version of DS (haven't upgraded past DS4.0 Pro and the original Genesis), but I still have all the content installed which I purchased over the 8 years I was using DS2 and DS3 Advanced (my largest Runtime) exclusively, and I CAN access and use it all since getting back to Poser with P9 and PP11.

I could probably count on one hand the number of items I bought over those 8 years that were exclusively DS products, so I don't understand why products have to be made exclusively for DS, and not usable in Poser. That's just my 2¢, FWIW.

Not all content can, and in the past DS users had to take a chance when purchasing Poser items because none of them were tested in DS which meant no refunds if they didn't work. But it's not hard to understand why products are made in one program: Market share, figure used and return on investment. And with that, new users and vendors are entering the market and see no value in purchasing a program that won't allow them to reach the most customers, use the more popular figures or give them a monetary return on the time they spent converting a product to poser.. and that includes props.

Male_M3dia posted at 2:46PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325699

Miss B posted at 2:23PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325694

Up until now I've not responded in this thread, but TrekkieGrrrl made a very good point. Poser compatible content CAN be used in DS. I don't have the most recent version of DS (haven't upgraded past DS4.0 Pro and the original Genesis), but I still have all the content installed which I purchased over the 8 years I was using DS2 and DS3 Advanced (my largest Runtime) exclusively, and I CAN access and use it all since getting back to Poser with P9 and PP11.

I could probably count on one hand the number of items I bought over those 8 years that were exclusively DS products, so I don't understand why products have to be made exclusively for DS, and not usable in Poser. That's just my 2¢, FWIW.

Not all content can, and in the past DS users had to take a chance when purchasing Poser items because none of them were tested in DS which meant no refunds if they didn't work.

Well then, I must be one lucky individual, because I never had a problem with a Poser compatible item all the years I was working in DS exclusively.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

Miss B posted at 6:55PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325700

Male_M3dia posted at 2:46PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325699

Miss B posted at 2:23PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325694

Up until now I've not responded in this thread, but TrekkieGrrrl made a very good point. Poser compatible content CAN be used in DS. I don't have the most recent version of DS (haven't upgraded past DS4.0 Pro and the original Genesis), but I still have all the content installed which I purchased over the 8 years I was using DS2 and DS3 Advanced (my largest Runtime) exclusively, and I CAN access and use it all since getting back to Poser with P9 and PP11.

I could probably count on one hand the number of items I bought over those 8 years that were exclusively DS products, so I don't understand why products have to be made exclusively for DS, and not usable in Poser. That's just my 2¢, FWIW.

Not all content can, and in the past DS users had to take a chance when purchasing Poser items because none of them were tested in DS which meant no refunds if they didn't work.

Well then, I must be one lucky individual, because I never had a problem with a Poser compatible item all the years I was working in DS exclusively.

Well they exist. I have several items where doors warp instead of open, hairs that show that it loads in scene list, but don't actually appear in the scene, pants that work fine in Poser but break when posed in DS... and that's money wasted.

ByteFactory3D posted at 12:18AM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325576

All our products are POSER content, lately including Superfly and Firefly support. The sales for Poser native content are (to say the least) poor during the past 4 or 5 years, but I stick with Poser because in my oppinion (over the past 15 years) Poser is the better software, in that it leaves all the liberty to the user, while DAZ-Studio has more and more closed up, using cryptografic file formats, preventing users from 'working under the hood, if they like'. I do use DAZ-Studio as a teacher at school, because for students a freeware software is just a good start. So I do know DAZ-Studio quite well. However I hate the philosophy of automatization and making things more and more complicated so that new users become completely depending on automated libraries and one click whatever, instead of learning a deeper understanding, looking into cr2 or obj files and learn how they work. So I tell my students, DAZ-Studio is fine for a quick first introduction and quickly getting 'click one button to quickly make pseudo art' solutions, but if you want to be in full control of everything, go for professional open software like Poser, or even Lightwave, because they don't restrict you with cryptic file formats which can nowhere be found documented... Even Firefly can use PBR materials, Superfly even more, and if you want more you can still go for Lux-Render (through Reality plugin or whatever else), Poser leaves you all the liberty. My 5 pennies, sorry for my anger, am frustrated about the aggressive marketing strategy of DAZ spilling DAZ-Studio for free to make customers depending on their expensive content, and to starve good professional software from the market. Monopoly at its worst... I'm now abandoning content creation as a real income. But I prefer giving up instead of surrendering to DAZ. Others may chose the money instead, its fine, its everybody's individual choice. The Project E character is a killer, it is what was needed so desperately for Poser. A male character of the same make would be all there is needed for the next years to make awsome use in Poser. But still there are customers who are just too lazy to learn a little about handling 3D content, and who prefer the 'one click fully automized' environment in DAZ-Studio. Telling 'I want to make art, but I don't want to learn or read a manual, my art must come out of the machine with a single click of a button. Automated clothing, automated pose, automates lighting, automated camera position, am I not such a great artist???'. Wonderful new world of DAZ Studio, congratulations.

What you are writing here is an Insult to all Daz Studio users. I do not think you actually worked with Daz Studio if you had you would not write such utter nonsense. I am a Daz Studio user, but I worked with Poser for years. I know both programs but Daz Studio is the program I chose to use. I have not yet found the instant Art button in Daz Studio of which you seem to speak. Petra

I have also been trying to stay out of this thread as it seems to me not a lot more than an extension of the software wars that have boiled over around these forums for so long and that Renderosity has worked so hard to stamp out in the interests of a cohesive community that supports many different artists, platforms and content creators.

Firstly there seems an ideal solution that no one seems to want to touch. Why does Smith Micro not work to make Poser support DS content? It seems like a win win to me. Daz 3D sells more content to a broader market. Poserphiles can use their preferred platform with access to a wealth of content that grows larger everyday. I really cannot see the negatives that many seem to conjure up for this outcome? Each businesses marketing strategy is clearly complementary and not competitive. Why are you asking many vendors to shift their focus instead of asking SM to provide broader compatibility with their platform that you are paying for? I really don’t understand. In the past I have been told by many dedicated Poser users that ‘Poser users don’t need content as they prefer to make their own’. But I see thread after thread begging for that very same content…

As far as the idea of making a Poser product first and then porting to DS as an ideal. There are so many DS functions these days that are not supported within native Poser file types. It really makes no sense for someone who is targeting the DS market to create a product for a different application and then wrangle it into DS with limited capabilities to keep an entirely different market sector happy. Surely the best DS products will always be made native to DS and take advantage of the advanced features within DS such as Instancing, LAMH, Geografting, Geoshells, Dforce, Iray shaders, Genesis 8 figures etc,etc. As would the best Poser products be made native in Poser. Until there is some parity in platform compatibility, there will always be a growing division in content support.

Also there are no real clear reasons to include .obj files in products when DS is free and can export many different formats with various options including obj, Collada, Poser Cr2 files, fbx, u3d. And if for some reason you do not want to install DS there are 3rd party stand alone applications available that can extract .obj data from daz native files. Where is the value in adding extra work to each vendor and larger demand for product file storage for Renderosity and other markets, in a process that can be completed by the end user to a greater degree of accuracy to requirement in just a few seconds? I'm sorry I also do not understand this request.

Personally, I find it a little humiliating to see vendors needing to declare their fealty here to the Poser overlord or risk the wrath of the purists who cannot understand why a content developer needs to adapt and progress in their own art and creativity to thrive and to continue to be a success. Why that very act is healthy and normal, not some kind of betrayal. Some members in this community have continued to reinforce a rift between the DS and Poser community for far too long with no positive outcome as can be seen by threads like these. Maybe it’s time for some to consider a change in tact? How about asking Smith Micro to add a broader level of support to the platform that you are paying for. Seems to me this would be the ideal solution to the issues presented here. Or am I missing something?

Just my 2 cents.

Karth posted at 12:26AM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325672

Honestly, I have never thought about to add the objectfile or an cr2 to a Daz product, because it is a DAZ product. Honestly, why do you not Export the object by yourself ? It´s one click for an objectfile and the Export as cr2 is easy too. But it is not so easy to get the cr2 work in Poser. I have a lot of pieces i tried and they will not work after that converting. Poser will read the bones and weightmaps not correct and the scaling is not working too. And here start´s the -- i have to do the product again and start by 0. And than it is not the same Quality like in Daz, so i have to split the product in 2 ,than customers are crying..lalala That is a neverending Story. Years ago everyone was crying that i only do Poser stuff and can´t do the Daz files. At the end where is the fun for me as a developer when everyone is crying ? My 2 Cent

Amen to that, you explained it very well.

I dread opening an email with "new products" advertised only to find out there are no poser things. I see so many beautiful V4 clothing in the market place for studio only. well, it does help me avoid purchasing too many things

Raindroptheelf

Sorry!

We could not find any products for the specified criteria at this time.

I checked for your products and found none in the marketplace. I have liked your art for years and had no idea that you were a vendor.

Richardphotos posted at 2:46AM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325725

Raindroptheelf

Sorry!

We could not find any products for the specified criteria at this time.

I checked for your products and found none in the marketplace. I have liked your art for years and had no idea that you were a vendor.

I am not a Vendor, just render as hobby. Petra

I had to chuckle at the one comment about "poser wars" or some such...this is NOT a 'rant' or WAR-ish thread...it's simply me, expressing my frustration and the very real NEED for more poser content, and also asking clearly what I (personally) would like that content to be... it's up to the merchants.... I just wanted to speak up. :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

and just FYI... I snap up the scenery and some of the building PROPS for POSER... as they are quite wonderful... and so yes, I'm very happy that those folks make high quality props for poser... I JUST put up a new art piece with ShaaraMuse's newest prop scenery... I've also bought santuziy78's rooms OFTEN and enjoyed using them...and of course coflek-gnorg super nice props!!

I just have to repeat...there's no weight mapping worries in doing SKINS/CHARACTERS .... so I'm standing here, cash in hand for my favorite merchants to do those for Dawn and Dusk! I truly believe there is a NICE market for these....everyone always wants one more character for their humans! :) waves vigerously at venders who HAVE done work in Poser formant: Maddelirium, P3Design, Mihrelle, and GODIN!! :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Lyne posted at 7:18AM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325728

I had to chuckle at the one comment about "poser wars" or some such...this is NOT a 'rant' or WAR-ish thread...it's simply me, expressing my frustration and the very real NEED for more poser content, and also asking clearly what I (personally) would like that content to be... it's up to the merchants.... I just wanted to speak up. :)

It's not up to the merchants. The merchants are already responding to paying customer needs that pay their bills in the marketplace. For years, these threads have been complaining to the wrong people; either it was DAZ, the brokerages like Rendo, and vendors, but never the actual entity that's needed to be taken to task: Smith Micro. They are your software provider, and if you're not getting what you need, you have to complain to them. Really this is where you should direct your requests. If vendors have to make products in other software to be competitive enough to pay bills, then it's up to Smith Micro to change the software so that vendors can make products that you want and pays their bills. You should probably contact SM directly because they've been silent for months and you're paying them for a service.

Miss B posted at 6:36PM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325700

Male_M3dia posted at 2:46PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325699

Miss B posted at 2:23PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325694

Up until now I've not responded in this thread, but TrekkieGrrrl made a very good point. Poser compatible content CAN be used in DS. I don't have the most recent version of DS (haven't upgraded past DS4.0 Pro and the original Genesis), but I still have all the content installed which I purchased over the 8 years I was using DS2 and DS3 Advanced (my largest Runtime) exclusively, and I CAN access and use it all since getting back to Poser with P9 and PP11.

I could probably count on one hand the number of items I bought over those 8 years that were exclusively DS products, so I don't understand why products have to be made exclusively for DS, and not usable in Poser. That's just my 2¢, FWIW.

Not all content can, and in the past DS users had to take a chance when purchasing Poser items because none of them were tested in DS which meant no refunds if they didn't work.

Well then, I must be one lucky individual, because I never had a problem with a Poser compatible item all the years I was working in DS exclusively.

DS has changed a great deal in the last few years. There are numerous products created for Poser that do not work in DS, anything weightmapped anything using Poser procedurals and other things, As a Dawn Dusk user I'm surprised that you are not aware of this, 2 separate products have to be created to support the different programs.

Raindroptheelf posted at 6:39PM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325718

ByteFactory3D posted at 12:18AM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325576

All our products are POSER content, lately including Superfly and Firefly support. The sales for Poser native content are (to say the least) poor during the past 4 or 5 years, but I stick with Poser because in my oppinion (over the past 15 years) Poser is the better software, in that it leaves all the liberty to the user, while DAZ-Studio has more and more closed up, using cryptografic file formats, preventing users from 'working under the hood, if they like'. I do use DAZ-Studio as a teacher at school, because for students a freeware software is just a good start. So I do know DAZ-Studio quite well. However I hate the philosophy of automatization and making things more and more complicated so that new users become completely depending on automated libraries and one click whatever, instead of learning a deeper understanding, looking into cr2 or obj files and learn how they work. So I tell my students, DAZ-Studio is fine for a quick first introduction and quickly getting 'click one button to quickly make pseudo art' solutions, but if you want to be in full control of everything, go for professional open software like Poser, or even Lightwave, because they don't restrict you with cryptic file formats which can nowhere be found documented... Even Firefly can use PBR materials, Superfly even more, and if you want more you can still go for Lux-Render (through Reality plugin or whatever else), Poser leaves you all the liberty. My 5 pennies, sorry for my anger, am frustrated about the aggressive marketing strategy of DAZ spilling DAZ-Studio for free to make customers depending on their expensive content, and to starve good professional software from the market. Monopoly at its worst... I'm now abandoning content creation as a real income. But I prefer giving up instead of surrendering to DAZ. Others may chose the money instead, its fine, its everybody's individual choice. The Project E character is a killer, it is what was needed so desperately for Poser. A male character of the same make would be all there is needed for the next years to make awsome use in Poser. But still there are customers who are just too lazy to learn a little about handling 3D content, and who prefer the 'one click fully automized' environment in DAZ-Studio. Telling 'I want to make art, but I don't want to learn or read a manual, my art must come out of the machine with a single click of a button. Automated clothing, automated pose, automates lighting, automated camera position, am I not such a great artist???'. Wonderful new world of DAZ Studio, congratulations.

What you are writing here is an Insult to all Daz Studio users. I do not think you actually worked with Daz Studio if you had you would not write such utter nonsense. I am a Daz Studio user, but I worked with Poser for years. I know both programs but Daz Studio is the program I chose to use. I have not yet found the instant Art button in Daz Studio of which you seem to speak. Petra

Well said Petra.

I'd like to see us NOT compairing sales and availability for products for a specific program so much. It invites software wars. Let's all agree that there are both combination and separate markets for DS and Poser. Let the "war" and who sells more, drop please. I do want to see more Poser, I'm primarily a Poser user. I'm not going to whine and bash DS to do it nor do I want to see DS users do the same to Poser. Relax ... we have our own niches. Let's let it be.

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

tparo posted at 6:27PM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325745

Miss B posted at 6:36PM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325700

Male_M3dia posted at 2:46PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325699

Not all content can, and in the past DS users had to take a chance when purchasing Poser items because none of them were tested in DS which meant no refunds if they didn't work.

Well then, I must be one lucky individual, because I never had a problem with a Poser compatible item all the years I was working in DS exclusively.

DS has changed a great deal in the last few years. There are numerous products created for Poser that do not work in DS, anything weightmapped anything using Poser procedurals and other things, As a Dawn Dusk user I'm surprised that you are not aware of this, 2 separate products have to be created to support the different programs.

Oh I understand, but as I had mentioned in an earlier post, I stopped updating DS with 4.0 Pro, so those who are using DS earlier than 4.5 could, and still can, use Poser compatible content in those earlier versions of DS.

I also understand that most DS users who have been using it for only a few years, and certainly those who are brand new to DS and 3D in general, will not have been able to make that comparison since they never used the earlier versions. My statement was related to my earlier versions of DS, and I never said those Poser compatible products would be usable in the latest versions of DS. It was just my experience with the software I use.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

Lyne posted at 9:57AM Thu, 08 March 2018 - #4325728

I had to chuckle at the one comment about "poser wars" or some such...this is NOT a 'rant' or WAR-ish thread...it's simply me, expressing my frustration and the very real NEED for more poser content, and also asking clearly what I (personally) would like that content to be... it's up to the merchants.... I just wanted to speak up. :)

It may not seem like much trouble to yourself but there have already been numerous posts in this thread, that if said the other way around would have most likely seen the poster facing a ban, as has occurred in the past in these forums. Saying something like "and to me the SERIOUS artist prefer Poser." is not much more than flame baiting and pushes very closely on the TOS from what I can tell. What this is really saying is that your directly comparing DS with Poser, and DS is not for the serious artist, right? This sentiment has been repeated numerous times in this thread such as with this statement by ByteFactory3D " and who prefer the 'one click fully automized' environment in DAZ-Studio. Telling 'I want to make art, but I don't want to learn" or "DAZ-Studio is fine for a quick first introduction and quickly getting 'click one button to quickly make pseudo art' solutions". So already in this thread about the faltering of Poser content, DS users have been painted as not serious, Pseudo artists who don't wan't to learn and are happy with a non creative "Make art" environment? Sounds productive and positive, right?

Miss B posted at 7:23PM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325754

tparo posted at 6:27PM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325745

Miss B posted at 6:36PM Wed, 07 March 2018 - #4325700

Male_M3dia posted at 2:46PM Tue, 06 March 2018 - #4325699

Not all content can, and in the past DS users had to take a chance when purchasing Poser items because none of them were tested in DS which meant no refunds if they didn't work.

Well then, I must be one lucky individual, because I never had a problem with a Poser compatible item all the years I was working in DS exclusively.

DS has changed a great deal in the last few years. There are numerous products created for Poser that do not work in DS, anything weightmapped anything using Poser procedurals and other things, As a Dawn Dusk user I'm surprised that you are not aware of this, 2 separate products have to be created to support the different programs.

Oh I understand, but as I had mentioned in an earlier post, I stopped updating DS with 4.0 Pro, so those who are using DS earlier than 4.5 could, and still can, use Poser compatible content in those earlier versions of DS.

I also understand that most DS users who have been using it for only a few years, and certainly those who are brand new to DS and 3D in general, will not have been able to make that comparison since they never used the earlier versions. My statement was related to my earlier versions of DS, and I never said those Poser compatible products would be usable in the latest versions of DS. It was just my experience with the software I use.

In my post, I spoke of Poser products that didn't work in DS3. Last year I did salvage a M4 outfit that worked fine in Poser but warped when posed by exporting the object and then rigging it to genesis when i imported the obj back in. The other products that had issues that I spoke of were because the mesh wasn't actually broken apart on the props in a modeller but done in Poser, which caused the warping when you tried to open doors in DS. DS doesn't break apart grouped items when imported so it was unusable. Whether it was in DS3 or DS4 had no bearing on if a product was made a certain way it won't work in DS at all.

My store is filled with Poser products AND new Poser only products weekly based

Did you miss it ..?? Follow my store and you won't miss a thing

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vendor/DIGIpixel/?AID=417

Have special products requests ..?? Feel free to drop me a note through Rendo sitemail .. If it suits my store I might make you even more happy ..

Currently there's a weekly Poser VGS going on includes lots of Poser products from many different vendors ..

https://www.renderosity.com/march-2018---poser-weekly-vgs---2nd-round-cms-19985

I just put a brand new V4 clothing set, chock full of morphs and Poser only on my store. Take a look. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vendor/Adompha

Le sigh.. While I DO appreciate the effort made for the weekly Poser VGS, for the love of Kthulu, why is it full of Genesis items, for the 3rd week in a row??

DreaminGirl posted at 5:12AM Fri, 09 March 2018 - #4325824

Le sigh.. While I DO appreciate the effort made for the weekly Poser VGS, for the love of Kthulu, why is it full of Genesis items, for the 3rd week in a row??

Just went browsing and most I see is for Victoria and Dawn and lots of scenery as well. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?TopID=729430

Genesis and Genesis 2 are Poser compatible and therefore the items included in the sales are Poser created products for these ladies ..

First page is filled with stuff for G3.. And none of the genesis models are compatible with Poser without a 3rd party plugin, so no, it doesn't belong there. You might as well put in stuff for 3DS Max and a load of other 'standard' fileformats, as Poser can import them without any plugins ?

DreaminGirl posted at 5:24PM Fri, 09 March 2018 - #4325826

First page is filled with stuff for G3.. And none of the genesis models are compatible with Poser without a 3rd party plugin, so no, it doesn't belong there. You might as well put in stuff for 3DS Max and a load of other 'standard' fileformats, as Poser can import them without any plugins ?

Yep! Deffo not many poser products on the first page. Totally in the wrong sale.

"Dream like you'll live forever. Live like you'll die tomorrow."

Join PoserLounge Chat

@DreaminGirl & @ghostman

Lol, so the use of plugins for content is the main issue now... Poser is built on many 3rd party components that hold the app together such as render engines, opengl, subdivision, dynamic clothing, bullet physics etc etc I believe Poser 11 lists over 30 third party contributors to what comes in the box as part of what is called Poser 11.

I don't really think the fact that Genesis requires a plugin to function is the issue and if it was then I am sure you would support asking SM for Native Genesis support, right? You could almost swear the issue here is more that you have a grudge against Daz 3D and it annoys you to see Genesis 3 products for Poser instead of products that meet your own personal preference? I'm not honestly sure why you have an issue with content creators creating a certain product type for Poser even if you don't desire it. If others are willing to purchase and request that kind of product what difference does it make to you?

From what I can see many products here require other 3rd party products to function correctly in an app, from figures to specific plugins or resources. Ever consider that maybe the consistent attacks of this kind may do more harm to the Poser content market then they ever could possibly do any good? Again just my 2 cents, feel free to continue cudgelling if that's what you think will work.

I do understand the frustration of the Poser Uses, but, not too long ago it was the other way round and we saw threads like this from the Daz Studio Users as not much DS content was out there. The change has to come from SM and not the Vendors. If I where a Vendor who wants to make money, I would create for what is most wanted and from what I can see, it is Daz Studio Content. Several Vendors, over time, have posted that they had created products for Poser too but they did not sell very well, so, I do understand that Vendors create Products they know will sell well. Vendors have bills to pay just as we do. You would not take a job that pays less than the job you are doing now would you? Petra

MightyMike's products in the Poser VGS sale are clearly marked as DS only and do not come in a format Poser can read and have no poser materials. They clearly do not belong in a Poser product sale.

Now I see it .. not sure why or how come ..

To be honest, who is or isn't in the sale is utterly inconsequential.

What actually matters is that you're actually throwing monetary support behind your Poser vendors. It shouldn't matter one bit if you're actually buying the Poser products, whether they're on the sale or not. That's really the issue here.

As for the Poser Products sale...we got hundreds of ID's in from vendors which we then sort into groups for new sales every 4 days. We sent out specific instructions that items submitted for this sale were to be for Poser only. But we do not have the staff required to check EVERY ID we are sent. We trust our vendors to send us the right ones. If there ae items in the Poser sale that should not be, we are sorry. But it is truly out of our control as we just cannot police every ID we are sent. We do our very best, but if we had to check every ID then we probably wouldn't be able to do these types of sales at all or at least not very often.

Thanks for pointing it out wimvdb... that is the vendor's fault for submitting ID(s) that do not belong to the sale. Unfortunately we can't check one by one as we get thousands! :(

Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

woo hooo!! I just RE-discovered threedplayer's store... had bought one dynamic outfit that would work on Dawn a while back and somehow missed seeing how many nice pieces this merchant added... so bought and wish listed his/her nearly all~! AND wrote a thank you note to this merchant. :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

DIGIpixel posted at 5:29PM Sun, 11 March 2018 - #4325770

My store is filled with Poser products AND new Poser only products weekly based

Did you miss it ..?? Follow my store and you won't miss a thing

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vendor/DIGIpixel/?AID=417

Have special products requests ..?? Feel free to drop me a note through Rendo sitemail .. If it suits my store I might make you even more happy ..

I just grabbed your roses head crown (cause I can make the horns invisible in material room, I'm sure) and I have bought some of your other products. Hair made for V4 can very often be fitted fast and easily to Dawn. Thanks for your products! :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Just to be clear, I've often told DS artists in a message, how I WISH my brain would 'work' with DS, that I LOVE their art, the gorgeous lighting, the amazing quality... recently I downloaded and tried (AGAIN) to get my brain to understand DS...and just had SADLY to give up... it's my brain connections (or dis-connections) that are the problem, or I would be using BOTH softwares....

So for me, now, it's the limited time I have to do 3d art, my age, my life stuff that makes it easier to continue what I 'grew up with' (ie: poser since poser 2 for PC).... AND I love Rendo, it's been my 'home' for nearly that long too... I'm just speaking up for the need for content... and especially CHARACTERS for Dawn and Dusk...

Thanks folks, great participation here!

PS... I DO talk to poser makers, people trying to work in it...the programmers are going to do what THEY want to do (one reason I will NOT go to Poser 11- for ME it does not give me the things I would like poser to do!...kinda like when Mircosoft makes a new version of Windows... sometimes it's a DOG of a thing they try and force on folks, and sometimes it's great... I think PERSONALLY that SmithMicro stumbled with P11 - especially NOT making it totally backward compatible...changing the material room, the way pythons work, etc... BUT that's another thread topic.)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Wow, a lot of good words here. I have not said much over the past few years, really since we closed our store. I can’t speak about what vendors are doing now, but I can speak that I actually use DS almost exclusively, however I will use Poser for other things I just can’t say goodbye too. I know all my models work great inside of DS, all parameters work etc. I have been studying the whys and what of DS and found that if you add the runtime to the DS library everything works just like Poser. Once I load items, I easily convert items to Iray and render away. I don’t install directly to the DS content I let DS do the converting and I have never had any issues. Not sure I understand what the problem is. You can still use Poser content in DS. Now about Poser I still use it because I have invested a lot in Poser products, and the materials I purchased I still do love using.

I will still purchase items for Poser and DS, of course the cost is an issue for me on both DS and Poser now, so I have to choose wisely due to finance,but I am not alone there.

To put it simply, you can use Poser in DS and the other way around if you learn how. I have been even learning how to convert my dynamic cloth from Poser to DS easily with the dforce engine. Just have to be patient and learn. I won’t throw out my Poser products when I can still use them in DS.

Both types can be sold and used, and appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

Lyne makes a good point about the HiveWire figures. I don't know why the Poser community didn't more fully embrace them. I've been working with DS since 2007 -- I have Poser 10, but can't seem to get the hang of it -- and use all the figures I have, from M4/V4 to the current Genesis 8. I even broke out M3 not too long ago.

I use Dawn, Dusk, and Luna frequently and find them as serviceable as any of the Genesis figures. There are differences, some pros-and-cons, but they're solid figures with a dedicated team behind them.

My freebies page has moved: RedEyeCat

mmalbert posted at 5:05PM Sat, 17 March 2018 - #4326232

Lyne makes a good point about the HiveWire figures. I don't know why the Poser community didn't more fully embrace them.

To be honest, there's an actual answer to that. But the answer would surely cause fights and be against the TOS. But simply, no they're not the same, so there's been no push by customers to invest in them. But I've seen 2 major pushes by this store to release that content for those figures, but looking at the "what's hot" during that time, the sales weren't there to support vendors doing more content.

ByteFactory3D posted at 5:27PM Mon, 19 March 2018 - #4325576

DAZ-Studio has more and more closed up, using cryptografic file formats, preventing users from 'working under the hood, if they like'

Because you do not know how to do something doesn't make that statement a fact just means...you do not know how to.

I do use DAZ-Studio as a teacher at school, because for students a freeware software is just a good start.

Really? tell Blender users your feelings on free software and there place as just a "start"

So I tell my students, DAZ-Studio is fine for a quick first introduction and quickly getting 'click one button to quickly make pseudo art' solutions, but if you want to be in full control of everything, go for professional open software like Poser, or even Lightwave, because they don't restrict you with cryptic file formats which can nowhere be found documented.

****you confused me here..Lightwave and Poser have nothing to do with each other one you can actually create (model and much more) things in the other you can move around things which where created in/from a program like lightwave and every program can export OBJ..hell cr2 to me is cryptic cause I cant import that into any of my 3D modeling program, and did you just call art created in studio pseudo art' solutions? fake art...really? wheres the real art at then ? it just boggles my mind the high and mighty way of thinking of some of you people.

But still there are customers who are just too lazy to learn a little about handling 3D content, and who prefer the 'one click fully automized' environment in DAZ-Studio. Telling 'I want to make art, but I don't want to learn or read a manual, my art must come out of the machine with a single click of a button. Automated clothing, automated pose, automates lighting, automated camera position, am I not such a great artist?

**I dont know about that but I think your not such a great person and here why. No matter who you are or think you are, You will always find people who dont know either program very well and dont really want to dive all into it...just create something and there is ALWAYS someone that much better than you no matter WHO you are or think you are.so sometimes its best to be humble. If someone just want's to click load/render and that's it ! That's their right its not laziness not all the other stuff ALL you high and mighty individuals want to call them.Its about them enjoying what they do or their process of creating an image. you have all types and ages who use both programs it is not a professional program like you may think made only for "professionals" I have had old and young experienced and new people contact me for stuff all the time and mothers who's autistic 10 year old asked me for toons to use in Poser you think she gives a shit about "diving in to the program no..he enjoys it and thats all that matters,all type from all walks of life enjoy both programs just not the ones who been here ....a little too long it seems. Thank God you dont work for the PR section of any of those programs. Next time keep what you think is a "3D artist" to yourself no one cares.I could load and render a sphere and that would make that image done by a 3D artist. And for the record because I know some people may think oh he's a Studio artist..wrong I'm a 2D Artist who decided to create 3D figures of things I have done in Maya/Softimage/Blender/Houdini/ and USE all of them to include Studio and Poser.and sold on both platforms..so yeah I know them both also very well.

Sorry to everyone else for my feelings on this individuals post. **

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HP Zbook 17 G6, intel Xeon 64 GB of ram 1 TB SSD, Quadro RTX 5000

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OK, WOW! I just now joined Prime (and I could use the coupon on it?! THANKS Team!!!!!!!!!) so I could buy MORE **Poser content **on special Prime sale prices (Apple Jack's stuff) when I realized that Prime is at such a good price... and NOW, my 'pending points' are REALLY high, so soon I can use more rewards too....YAY!!!!!!

PS, been writing Thank You for making Poser content notes to the merchant's who's Poser products I'm buying.... :)

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

I am a pretty heavy buyer of content, and while I have used both Poser and D/S I vastly prefer D/S. Poser always seemed more difficult to work with, and I stopped updating it in 2012. In any case, I do buy a lot of poser props and environments - I can handle reshading them without a problem, it usually isn't necessary. What everybody is complaining about is the figures though - and Genesis 3 and 8 don't work in Poser because of some nefarious scheme by DAZ to destroy Poser, it's because Smith Micro can't be bothered to supply support for the figures. DAZ is in the business of selling content, who's program it is used in doesn't matter to them. Male_M3dia is completely correct, the place you should be sending those cards and letters to complaining about a lack of content for Poser is Smith Micro.

The wacky thing here is that Smith Micro doesn't create content, and really haven't put much time and effort into creating a market for it either, Content Paradise is woefully out of date. So they aren't in competition with DAZ either. It shouldn't matter to them who creates third party content.

So, you want content that works in Poser? You need to talk to the guys that maintain Poser to make them include support for content. That would be Smith Micro.

diogenese19348 posted at 2:45PM Wed, 21 March 2018 - #4326478

I am a pretty heavy buyer of content, and while I have used both Poser and D/S I vastly prefer D/S. Poser always seemed more difficult to work with, and I stopped updating it in 2012. In any case, I do buy a lot of poser props and environments - I can handle reshading them without a problem, it usually isn't necessary. What everybody is complaining about is the figures though - and Genesis 3 and 8 don't work in Poser because of some nefarious scheme by DAZ to destroy Poser, it's because Smith Micro can't be bothered to supply support for the figures. DAZ is in the business of selling content, who's program it is used in doesn't matter to them. Male_M3dia is completely correct, the place you should be sending those cards and letters to complaining about a lack of content for Poser is Smith Micro.

The wacky thing here is that Smith Micro doesn't create content, and really haven't put much time and effort into creating a market for it either, Content Paradise is woefully out of date. So they aren't in competition with DAZ either. It shouldn't matter to them who creates third party content.

So, you want content that works in Poser? You need to talk to the guys that maintain Poser to make them include support for content. That would be Smith Micro.

The funny thing was, a few years ago when PAs were working with the DSON importer and Poser to make content work in both programs, we told poser users to speak to SM about content because with the money we were making with DS content, we knew this day was coming because the market was shifting. And it's interesting now that people that bashed and attacked people that wanted content to work in both programs are in these threads complaining about the lack of Poser content, especially now that many of their mainstay vendors have switched programs to make a living. And if the effort was made by customers back then to hold SM to the fire to supply their needs, rather than badger stores and vendors, they would have had the content they need.

These days I'm not advocating the whole DS/SM content working bit, that time has passed; but what I am saying is that Poser users need to start listening to their vendors on what they need to stay in the market and make it easier to give you what you need and SM also needs to be responsive to give vendors the tools to make content easier. This lack of listening to what your vendors are asking for is why you have a figure on the market now that's hard to make conforming clothing for it and doesn't even have a pair of shoes on the market to buy.

Sorry was not clear...folks were complaining about the quality of the HUMANS included with new poser versions...and I'm like... why care about those, when the BEST (in my humble opinion) is Dawn Dusk, etc... just wish folks would support Dawn and Dusk with a good range of characters/skins... looks at my favorite character creators: Maddelirium, Seven, Addy, Silver...

Life Requires Assembly and we all know how THAT goes!

Lyne posted at 9:53PM Thu, 22 March 2018 - #4326624

Sorry was not clear...folks were complaining about the quality of the HUMANS included with new poser versions...and I'm like... why care about those, when the BEST (in my humble opinion) is Dawn Dusk, etc... just wish folks would support Dawn and Dusk with a good range of characters/skins... looks at my favorite character creators: Maddelirium, Seven, Addy, Silver...

You were clear on your wanting figures for dawn and dusk; however after two pushes of those figures at this store it was also clear that Poser customers weren't remotely interested in those characters. I see none of the vendors you named losing money making characters for those figures when they sell so low in comparison to genesis or V4.

It is what it is.

Lyne posted at 9:53PM Thu, 22 March 2018 - #4326624

Sorry was not clear...folks were complaining about the quality of the HUMANS included with new poser versions...and I'm like... why care about those, when the BEST (in my humble opinion) is Dawn Dusk, etc... just wish folks would support Dawn and Dusk with a good range of characters/skins... looks at my favorite character creators: Maddelirium, Seven, Addy, Silver...

It is what it is.

Male_M3dia posted at 6:19PM Fri, 23 March 2018 - #4326238

mmalbert posted at 5:05PM Sat, 17 March 2018 - #4326232

Lyne makes a good point about the HiveWire figures. I don't know why the Poser community didn't more fully embrace them.

To be honest, there's an actual answer to that. But the answer would surely cause fights and be against the TOS. But simply, no they're not the same, so there's been no push by customers to invest in them. But I've seen 2 major pushes by this store to release that content for those figures, but looking at the "what's hot" during that time, the sales weren't there to support vendors doing more content.

I didn't say these figures were the same.

I said: "I use Dawn, Dusk, and Luna frequently and find them as serviceable as any of the Genesis figures. There are differences, some pros-and-cons, but they're solid figures with a dedicated team behind them."

At this point I don't expect support for Dawn and Dusk -- outside of HW itself -- to improve. And I still think that's too bad, because they're decent figures.

My freebies page has moved: RedEyeCat

mmalbert posted at 7:03AM Sat, 24 March 2018 - #4326692

Male_M3dia posted at 6:19PM Fri, 23 March 2018 - #4326238

mmalbert posted at 5:05PM Sat, 17 March 2018 - #4326232

Lyne makes a good point about the HiveWire figures. I don't know why the Poser community didn't more fully embrace them.

To be honest, there's an actual answer to that. But the answer would surely cause fights and be against the TOS. But simply, no they're not the same, so there's been no push by customers to invest in them. But I've seen 2 major pushes by this store to release that content for those figures, but looking at the "what's hot" during that time, the sales weren't there to support vendors doing more content.

I didn't say these figures were the same.

I said: "I use Dawn, Dusk, and Luna frequently and find them as serviceable as any of the Genesis figures. There are differences, some pros-and-cons, but they're solid figures with a dedicated team behind them."

At this point I don't expect support for Dawn and Dusk -- outside of HW itself -- to improve. And I still think that's too bad, because they're decent figures.

As I said, I gave an answer that wouldn't break out in a fight, and still stand by that they're not the same and because of that, customer support for those figures hasn't materialized outside of hivewire. However the issue comes down how easy content is to make for these and other Poser figures; and that brings us back to listening to what the vendors need.

Ha, you so want a fight. Not worth it. Back on ignore you go.

My freebies page has moved: RedEyeCat

It's never a fight when a comment is based in fact; i'm not talking opinions..this is pure sales/demand related. Saying a figure works for you is opinion, a figure not supported because customers aren't buying content vendors make is fact.

Facts are based on verifyable figures and independent reports. Yours are just opinions

wimvdb posted at 6:19PM Sat, 24 March 2018 - #4326751

Facts are based on verifyable figures and independent reports. Yours are just opinions

That is backed up by a thread where people are asking for content. That's why you all are here asking vendors to support your program, correct?

Instead of trying to fight with me, your energy is best directed at Smith Micro asking to help you resolve the situation, because fighting hasn't helped for years.. time to take your complaints to the source. I'm hitting the ignore button as well as this back and forth won't solve your problem. I'm trying to point you in the right direction.

This was mentioned on page 3 about D/S formats. I'm primarily a poser user but have been dabbling in D/s. I recently purchased a product that has a bad link in loading that asks for a particular texture that isn't there (or is actually a slightly different name. With Poser I could easily hand edit and correct Cr2s. Is there a way to hand edit .duf files?

The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.

Kazam561 posted at 11:01AM Wed, 28 March 2018 - #4326958

This was mentioned on page 3 about D/S formats. I'm primarily a poser user but have been dabbling in D/s. I recently purchased a product that has a bad link in loading that asks for a particular texture that isn't there (or is actually a slightly different name. With Poser I could easily hand edit and correct Cr2s. Is there a way to hand edit .duf files?

Yes you can, though some .duf files will be saved in a compressed format so you may need to run the .duf file through a decompressor app such as Winzip or 7zip. If it is not compressed you can open it directly in a text editor and make the edits as required. Though it maybe easier to make the changes directly in Daz Studio itself and then resave the file, just makes sure the original thumb is named as .png and not .duf.png and when re-saving and then delete the new thumb that is autogenerated with the .duf.png file name. If you are hand editing the .duf I would search and replace the broken file name or path to make sure you replace each instance of the file usage.

Thank you very much Razor42 :)

The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.

The ironic thing is that the only reason DAZ Studio even exists is that the original founders at DAZ were extremely worried about the long term fate of Poser as it bounced from owner to owner. After all, if Poser had gone under, there would have been no more market for DAZ product, so even though the first two versions of DS were less than impressive, it turns out that DAZ's worries were absolutely right. It's easy to cast Smith Micro as the "villain" in this piece, as their stewardship of Poser as both a program and a larger hobby has been characterized by a glacial pace of development and a never ending sideshow of ugly and unsupported new figures to cover the minimal software updates. But, at the same time, Poser users have to also look in the mirror and accept that the main reason that Poser has ceased to be the center of this hobby is that they let it happen via a mantra of "what we have is good enough." Sure, one can question whether DAZ was taking a crazy gamble when they dropped the V4 generation in favor of the Genesis figures, but on the flip side, the fact that the default figure for Poser is STILL V4, a twelve year old figure that was introduced two years before Smith Micro even entered the picture, and that the primary content included with Poser goes back even earlier to Poser 5 and 6, just goes to show how little initiative there's been and how little pressure there's been on SM to up their game over the years. At this point I'm not even sure if Poser can be saved, though any path to salvation is going to have to involve some major changes to the Poser business model. At the very least, Poser needs to settle on a default set of figures and stick with them, and Poser users need to SUPPORT those figures rather than clinging to a hacked version of V4 like an aging punk rocker who still listens to everything on cassette tapes. In my ideal world, that would mean either Poser running Genesis natively or Smith Micro permanently licensing Dawn/Dusk from Hivewire, and for Content Paradise to be taken out of SM's negligent hands and merged into better run store... and it's pretty obvious who the logical candidate for that would be. Of course, the least likely part of all of those scenarios is the notion that Poser users will move away from V4. At this point it's like watching that old guy on the corner who keeps getting his Ford Tempo repaired over and over on the grounds that it's cheaper than buying a new car. At some point there's going to come a time when there are no more old Tempo parts to be scavenged, just as, at some point, DAZ will eventually pull the plug on V4. You can only put off the inevitable for so long...

SM doesn't really want to go into making figures, especially with Daz pushing theirs so hard. Back when it was owned by EFrontier, you did have Terai Yuki which while not a great figure, it certainly was a very cute figure without going to the extremes of some anime characters (some toon characters here as well). There are other 3rd party figures. I picked up Maisie here and it's actually quite nice. I wish there was a less toony version (or face, including the other face and body morph it comes with) in maybe a morph pack addition. Part of the problem is the Poser community can't seem to get really behind Poser figures as much as the D/S community does. New characters sometimes get unfairly attacked like Scarlett did without realizing it was a first version and much smaller development team than Daz fields for it's characters. Renderosity and Hivewire have tried to support new characters (and even RDNA did it) with waves of content but Poser users seem to hesitate to watch development so sales start off weak. Honestly even at Daz there's no one character fits all. Their character development cycle turns over very quickly so one tends to spend a lot on either new content for the new character, or re-issued content that's now fitted to the new character (yes there's a lot of vendors that do that).

As far as development cycles being glacial, well Daz Studio's development is just as slow. Adding new features costs employee hours and wages, and often different versions usually sometimes wait for a paid release. D/S doesn't cost but there was a time when it did. Besides, how often would you pay for new features if they were released every year? Would you want a subscription fee like Adobe Photoshop does? I certainly don't.

In releasing new features, I prefer time given to quashing bugs and to bug testing. On a side note Windows 10 gets a big free update this Tuesday but will it bork your computer? Hopefully not.

The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.

Kazam561 posted at 10:06PM Wed, 04 April 2018 - #4327471

SM doesn't really want to go into making figures, especially with Daz pushing theirs so hard.

I won't go into other parts of your thread, especially the DAZ dev cycle being slow, since it isn't at all true and unnecessary. The focus should be on getting Poser users what they need and this is what the thread is about. I highlighted this sentence, because if poser users and SM doesn't want to have anything to do with DAZ, this whole mindset has to change. They have to fill the void not only with figures, but with working with vendors to make sure they're getting what they need to make content. There's been a dearth of poser content using the latest features because they were made ignoring what vendors need.. you look in rendo's store and your see lots of DAZ products, particularly dynamic clothing that was just added to the program (hence there hasn't been glacial development, and you haven't heard a peep from SM since November).. and the dynamic clothing was done in such a way that vendors could set them up easier... that's how the software company is supposed to work with vendors... unlike unsupported figures and a lack of products using superfly shaders because making them is vendor-unfriendly.

Male_M3dia posted at 1:00PM Thu, 05 April 2018 - #4327476

Kazam561 posted at 10:06PM Wed, 04 April 2018 - #4327471

SM doesn't really want to go into making figures, especially with Daz pushing theirs so hard.

I won't go into other parts of your thread, especially the DAZ dev cycle being slow, since it isn't at all true and unnecessary. The focus should be on getting Poser users what they need and this is what the thread is about. I highlighted this sentence, because if poser users and SM doesn't want to have anything to do with DAZ, this whole mindset has to change. They have to fill the void not only with figures, but with working with vendors to make sure they're getting what they need to make content. There's been a dearth of poser content using the latest features because they were made ignoring what vendors need.. you look in rendo's store and your see lots of DAZ products, particularly dynamic clothing that was just added to the program (hence there hasn't been glacial development, and you haven't heard a peep from SM since November).. and the dynamic clothing was done in such a way that vendors could set them up easier... that's how the software company is supposed to work with vendors... unlike unsupported figures and a lack of products using superfly shaders because making them is vendor-unfriendly.

Very well said.

Characters are a tough issue. The base character almost has to be owned by a company at this point, and vendors manipulate that base mesh. The power of the DAZ Genesis line is that if somebody does a morphed body type (monster, animal or merely an unusually shaped human) you know all the clothing and props you already have are going to be usable - usually without too much trouble. You aren't buying a whole new wardrobe all the time, and your character isn't limited. That's the main problem I have with all the stand alone figures people come up with for Poser - some of which are quite good, but you're going to have limited clothes and accessories for them. It's the nature of the beast. It's why I never used the DAZ version of Dawn or Dusk.

And yes, I'd have to say with the Genesis gene pool, there really is "one character fits all". Or as close to it as you can possibly come. I think the fact Smith Micro will not put the capability of using it into Poser is going to kill Poser. If they don't want to use DAZ's version, they need to come up with their own. Not another pair of stand-alone figures.

Poser's fitting room does work pretty well on converting a good amount of clothing (though often you need to help it along).

The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.

Kazam561 posted at 9:48AM Thu, 05 April 2018 - #4327471

SM doesn't really want to go into making figures, especially with Daz pushing theirs so hard.

Excuse me? Making figures is all SM does. Almost every new iteration of Poser comes with a completely new set of figures - Paul and Pauline, Rex & Roxy, Allyson 1 & 2 and Ryan 1 & 2, Sydney & Simon, Jessie 1 & 2 and James 1 & 2, Don & Judy... and that's not counting the huge glob of old 2nd party stuff like Creech, Beta Boy, the Grey Alien...

What they DON'T do is actually support those characters after release, so after a handful of outfits at best, they all end up on the ash heap of poser history and most of their assets have little appeal once those are no longer the figure of the month, and promptly disappear from the market. Whereas with DAZ, EVERY new generation of figure that they've produced has been designed to have at least some level of backwards compatibility with the previous generations of product, something that DAZ has doubled down on since they entered the Genesis era. Working in DS I can still use my old v4 and V3 outfits on G3F and G8F, with textures converted from poser & 3DL to iray, using older poses and so on, all with only a few keystrokes. That gives the DAZ assets a sense of long term value that makes buying their newer products feel like a fair deal.

Back when it was owned by EFrontier, you did have Terai Yuki which while not a great figure, it certainly was a very cute figure without going to the extremes of some anime characters (some toon characters here as well).

Actually, Terai Yuki existed as a commercial figure in Japan long before she sub-licensed and ported to Poser as TY2, and even had her own series of animated films. By the standards of the time that she was created in she was a fantastic figure, but you have to remember that her contemporaries were Posette, Victoria 1/2 and Judy.

New characters sometimes get unfairly attacked like Scarlett did without realizing it was a first version and much smaller development team than Daz fields for it's characters. Renderosity and Hivewire have tried to support new characters (and even RDNA did it) with waves of content but Poser users seem to hesitate to watch development so sales start off weak.

Yep. One of the fundamental problem that Poser has had is that its' users are their own worst enemies. By digging in and entrenching around a figure base that ceased development a decade ago, they're now looking enviously at all the toys the other kids are getting and realizing that the market has passed them by. The ironic thing is that there has been FAR more product produced for the V4 generation than any of the other generations, but the mechanics of the Renderosity store have worked to purge a large portion of it out of the system since that product clearly didn't sell well enough to stay in the store. And that's really the key issue - PAs have cut back on making product for V4/Poser because the Poser user base wasn't buying enough of the new product being made to justify the continued production of more of the same. At some point it simply stops being a business decision on the part of the PAs involved and becomes something more like making a donation to charity.

As far as development cycles being glacial, well Daz Studio's development is just as slow. Nope, that's not even close to true. DS gets updated constantly, with major updates about every nine months on average and more new features have been added to DS in just the six years since DS 4 was launched than in the entire ten years since Poser was acquired by Smith Micro. Under Curious Labs and E-Frontier Poser was developed at an incredibly robust rate, but SM's idea of an upgrade for Poser has been to add something that was previously available as an add-on (wardrobe wizard, bullet physics,) make a few minor changes to some tool set and toss in a new pair of ugly main figures that no one will ever use. But hey, SM's best selling product, Manga Studio (now called Clip Studio) has had even less developer love than Poser. :/

Besides, how often would you pay for new features if they were released every year? Would you want a subscription fee like Adobe Photoshop does? I certainly don't.

Well, I actually prefer the idea of getting all the new features for free as an enticement to buy new products that utilize those features, which is the current DS model, but I do subscribe to Adobe and have found it to be better model for me given that I use multiple Adobe programs and would have been updating them regularly anyway.

In releasing new features, I prefer time given to quashing bugs and to bug testing.

I rarely upgrade to the new version of anything immediately. On the other hand, DAZ let's you run both a beta and the latest stable version simultaneously, so you get the best of both worlds.

May I ask a question? Why is it so hard to develop for Poser now? How do we fix that? I checked it out and P11 pro looks like a pretty neat program with an emphasis on animation and render options not present in Daz. I would rather not spend a lot of money on the software, but if I were to start making things, I don't see how I could put them out for Poser people without having a copy of Poser for testing. I have a copy of Poser 7 I bought years ago, but I didn't really fall in love with it and circumstances prevented spending much time with it. Obviously not latest or greatest. I envision workflow going from Blender to Daz/Poser. The Daz part seems pretty clear. Not sure about Poser. I have to ask the question.

May I make a long-winded statement? You don't have to read it, but I'll read any replies. I got Daz because Daz was free and I spent a fair amount of money on content. I never bought content before. I actually bought a lot of V4 stuff because it looked good and it was really cheap. I supplemented what I spent with the deluge of free stuff Daz pours out over the holidays, including a V7 Pro pack. So, I have V7. I have samples of all the generations of figures. I have so much stuff that it is taking me time to process what I've got. Also, Daz is a surprisingly deep and competent program. I don't know what I expected, but the more I work with it, the more impressed I am.

At the same time, I buy stuff here. I love Maddelirium's figures and I'm most pleased with various items I've bought from Sabby, Vyktohria, Exnem, Sveva, Seven, Silver and on. Imho, very talented people here. I actually let my PC+ lapse so I could pay more attention to vendors here. I'm still accumulating stuff at an alarming rate. Somehow, I ended up with a comp Prime subscription in February and we just had the Easter Grab Bag. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I have my own thought about V4. She will be around as long as her stuff sells. She has a lot of stuff, and a lot of it is really good. As an executive at FB once said, the winner is not the best product. It's the product everyone uses. If people still use V4, V4 will stay. Compatibility goes both ways and there are V4 clones for all the Genesis figures. V4 content may live forever. And why not?

I have read a lot of arguments for why the new figures must ultimately win, and I'm not totally convinced. All these figures are globs of geometry with bones stuck in them and textures stuck on them. I've read some say, Dual Quaternion Skin. Yeah. I found some white papers. That's not inherent to the figure. It's a feature of the 3D engine. Mathematically, it's a different way of handling bone-driven geometry. There's also a spherical method. Same with SSS, It's not a feature of the figure. It's a feature of the render engine. If you load V4 geometry and rig it in a program that has a DQS engine, V4 will have DQS. If a figure has a problem with articulation, one can correct that through a combination of morph, bone adjustment and mesh smoothing. Right?

As an aside, I've ended up with a ridiculous collection of M4/V4 pose and parameter morphs. I had a complaint that Daz figures seemed to lack nasolabial folds. That's actually false. It's in the morphs. I'm using them and making my characters look a little different. I know. Proof is in the renders. I will supply when I'm comfortable to show the work. Sorry. Still working through the various texture methods. Patience. Thanks

Let's move on to clothing fit. I expect any item of clothing, prop, or accessory can be fitted to most any figure. I'm researching and experimenting. So far, seems to be true. I don't know what other people are doing, but I looked for info on fitting clothes and I learned how to unhide the scale tools and how to apply mesh smooth modifier to make clothes fit, no poke-through. Once I had the controls, making clothes fit was easy. I put V4 stuff on G3 figures, I put G3 stuff on V4. I know. G8 is the now. I'll get there. I have stuff

Thanks CybersoxXIII. I didn't realize Terai Yuki was licensed. I have to say I'm surprised she didn't catch on here as well as elsewhere. And on newer figures you are correct. I missed (though I've picked up Pauline and some Roxie stuff here) mentioning the others.

On somewhat related side note, why do certain new figures have speed skater's thighs?? It seems a big trend now.

I will say I've tinkered with and had some success at converting some duf items to poser to fit V4 for my own personal use in artwork. Long sleeve outfits are the trickiest and require a fair amount of extra work..

The dust settled, thinking "what a fine home, at least for now" not realizing that doom would soon be coming in the form of a vacuum cleaner.

Torquinox posted at 2:00PM Thu, 05 April 2018 - #4327501

May I ask a question? Why is it so hard to develop for Poser now?

From what I've read in many PA's quotes, it's not that it's necessarily HARDER to develop content for Poser, but the fact that fewer and fewer people are BUYING content for Poser... to the point where many PAs no longer consider the extra effort involved in making things fully Poser ready worth the effort when that same time could be devoted to making more content that sells more than well enough even though it's for DS only.

I have my own thought about V4. She will be around as long as her stuff sells. She has a lot of stuff, and a lot of it is really good. As an executive at FB once said, the winner is not the best product. It's the product everyone uses. If people still use V4, V4 will stay. Compatibility goes both ways and there are V4 clones for all the Genesis figures. V4 content may live forever. And why not?

Absolutely true as long as everything you've just mentioned is meant to be a correct statement for users of DAZ Studio. The options are a lot less clear for Poser users and it all goes back to the original major rift in this hobby, which was when Poser's owner at the time, Curious Labs, introduced a major change in the way Poser materials were handled in Poser Pro Pack and Poser 5. Ironically, DAZ's older renderer, 3DL, actually uses the same basic material setup that Poser used up through Poser 4, whereas any items made for Poser and not sold through DAZ after that date may use materials and other programing tricks that simply didn't work in 3DL. With the introduction of Iray as the new primary DS renderer, we're seeing the opposite situation - many Iray materials simply don't work properly in Poser's firefly renderer, so, to make a product that works properly in both DS and Poser means having to make not one, not two, but three different sets of textures just to cover the basics. And keep in mind that that's before we even get into the fact that DS and Poser also use different weightmapping systems, dynamic cloth systems, lights, etc., etc. In the end, it's a lot of extra work to support to support both and we've hit the point where many artists at DAZ aren't even bothering to support 3DL anymore and only doing Iray textures because that's what sells.

Whereas, apparently, we've hit the point where product that is being made specifically for Poser is no longer selling well enough for many PAs to keep making it. Of course, the fact that many PAs are switching to DS only means that they're going to be supporting the newest generation of DAZ tech. So, we've come into what's almost a complete inversion of the market ten years ago when almost everything worked in Poser and DS users were often left out in the cold... a situation that has Poser only users feeling the burn of being the less desired part of the market.

I have read a lot of arguments for why the new figures must ultimately win, and I'm not totally convinced. All these figures are globs of geometry with bones stuck in them and textures stuck on them. I've read some say, Dual Quaternion Skin. Yeah. I found some white papers. That's not inherent to the figure. It's a feature of the 3D engine. Mathematically, it's a different way of handling bone-driven geometry. There's also a spherical method. Same with SSS, It's not a feature of the figure. It's a feature of the render engine. If you load V4 geometry and rig it in a program that has a DQS engine, V4 will have DQS. If a figure has a problem with articulation, one can correct that through a combination of morph, bone adjustment and mesh smoothing. Right?

Well, first, there's also weight mapping, which is different between the two systems, and some other technical differences that simply don't play together. Up through Genesis 2, DAZ took it on themselves to produce DSON files that let their DS dedicated products work within Poser, but with Genesis 3 DAZ finally decided to stop trying to pander to the Poser market. As far as V4 lasting as long as there's a market for her... basically true if you ignore the fact that DAZ owns and controls V4 and, if they really wanted to stick the knife in and twist, they could just raise the price on her to a crazy amount or even pull her from the market. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if the only thing that's kept that from happening so far is the fact that Hivewire's Dawn would probably just fill that void in the market, and by keeping V4 and her kin so cheap DAZ has effectively kept Hivewire from gaining a more dominant position in the hobby.

Let's move on to clothing fit. I expect any item of clothing, prop, or accessory can be fitted to most any figure. I'm researching and experimenting. So far, seems to be true. I >don't know what other people are doing, but I looked for info on fitting clothes and I learned how to unhide the scale tools and how to apply mesh smooth modifier to make >clothes fit, no poke-through. Once I had the controls, making clothes fit was easy. I put V4 stuff on G3 figures, I put G3 stuff on V4. I know. G8 is the now. I'll get there. I have >stuff

It can be done in either program and there are some third party programs that also allow you to refit items, but there's nothing else as fast and simple as DS's autofit. More than anything else, the convenience of being able to put the same outfit on any figure with just a couple of mouse clicks was what got me to switch from a Poser user who occasionally used DS to a DS user who occasionally uses Poser.

CybersoxXIII posted at 3:28PM Thu, 05 April 2018 - #4327507

Torquinox posted at 2:00PM Thu, 05 April 2018 - #4327501

May I ask a question? Why is it so hard to develop for Poser now?

From what I've read in many PA's quotes, it's not that it's necessarily HARDER to develop content for Poser, but the fact that fewer and fewer people are BUYING content for Poser... to the point where many PAs no longer consider the extra effort involved in making things fully Poser ready worth the effort when that same time could be devoted to making more content that sells more than well enough even though it's for DS only.

I've read that, but there are vendors like Cybertenko and Dante78 who plow forward with a steady stream of primarily Poser products. I'm wondering if it would be enough to fire up my old Poser 7 and at least see if I can get OBJ models going in that. But would that be enough? If their renderer is not supported consistently across Poser versions, then materials become a problem.

I have my own thought about V4. She will be around as long as her stuff sells. She has a lot of stuff, and a lot of it is really good. As an executive at FB once said, the winner is not the best product. It's the product everyone uses. If people still use V4, V4 will stay. Compatibility goes both ways and there are V4 clones for all the Genesis figures. V4 content may live forever. And why not?

Absolutely true as long as everything you've just mentioned is meant to be a correct statement for users of DAZ Studio. The options are a lot less clear for Poser users and it all goes back to the original major rift in this hobby, which was when Poser's owner at the time, Curious Labs, introduced a major change in the way Poser materials were handled in Poser Pro Pack and Poser 5. Ironically, DAZ's older renderer, 3DL, actually uses the same basic material setup that Poser used up through Poser 4, whereas any items made for Poser and not sold through DAZ after that date may use materials and other programing tricks that simply didn't work in 3DL. With the introduction of Iray as the new primary DS renderer, we're seeing the opposite situation - many Iray materials simply don't work properly in Poser's firefly renderer, so, to make a product that works properly in both DS and Poser means having to make not one, not two, but three different sets of textures just to cover the basics. And keep in mind that that's before we even get into the fact that DS and Poser also use different weightmapping systems, dynamic cloth systems, lights, etc., etc. In the end, it's a lot of extra work to support to support both and we've hit the point where many artists at DAZ aren't even bothering to support 3DL anymore and only doing Iray textures because that's what sells.

Yes, I'm looking at it from the Daz side. Sorry. I can't do anything about the rift. I see how changing the renderer and the way textures work could be a problem. Too bad about 3DL textures. I think it's a pretty nice renderer, but it has to be cumbersome maintaining two entirely different lighting systems. The problem may be more than skin deep, too. V7 Frankie has a 3DL texture, but it crashes Daz whenever I try to use it. Iray is great for now but licensing agreements don't always last.

Whereas, apparently, we've hit the point where product that is being made specifically for Poser is no longer selling well enough for many PAs to keep making it. Of course, the fact that many PAs are switching to DS only means that they're going to be supporting the newest generation of DAZ tech. So, we've come into what's almost a complete inversion of the market ten years ago when almost everything worked in Poser and DS users were often left out in the cold... a situation that has Poser only users feeling the burn of being the less desired part of the market.

You make a lot of good points.

I have read a lot of arguments for why the new figures must ultimately win, and I'm not totally convinced. All these figures are globs of geometry with bones stuck in them and textures stuck on them. I've read some say, Dual Quaternion Skin. Yeah. I found some white papers. That's not inherent to the figure. It's a feature of the 3D engine. Mathematically, it's a different way of handling bone-driven geometry. There's also a spherical method. Same with SSS, It's not a feature of the figure. It's a feature of the render engine. If you load V4 geometry and rig it in a program that has a DQS engine, V4 will have DQS. If a figure has a problem with articulation, one can correct that through a combination of morph, bone adjustment and mesh smoothing. Right?

Well, first, there's also weight mapping, which is different between the two systems, and some other technical differences that simply don't play together. Up through Genesis 2, DAZ took it on themselves to produce DSON files that let their DS dedicated products work within Poser, but with Genesis 3 DAZ finally decided to stop trying to pander to the Poser market. As far as V4 lasting as long as there's a market for her... basically true if you ignore the fact that DAZ owns and controls V4 and, if they really wanted to stick the knife in and twist, they could just raise the price on her to a crazy amount or even pull her from the market. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if the only thing that's kept that from happening so far is the fact that Hivewire's Dawn would probably just fill that void in the market, and by keeping V4 and her kin so cheap DAZ has effectively kept Hivewire from gaining a more dominant position in the hobby.

I see. I don't know much about Hivewire or Dawn. I've been to their site. I would be surprised to see Daz stick the knife in. I don't think it's their plan. To them, V4 is obsolete. They're obviously making moves to woo the bigger players in 3D, but I think it costs them nothing to keep V4 alive. They stock a lot of V4 content in their PC+ program. They offer it on incredible discount at intervals. They give it away as monthly freebies and in promos. I think to them, it's a good line of products to offer as a sort of loss-leader. You can even get V3 stuff, if you want it. It's what GOG does with old games.

Let's move on to clothing fit. I expect any item of clothing, prop, or accessory can be fitted to most any figure. I'm researching and experimenting. So far, seems to be true. I >don't know what other people are doing, but I looked for info on fitting clothes and I learned how to unhide the scale tools and how to apply mesh smooth modifier to make >clothes fit, no poke-through. Once I had the controls, making clothes fit was easy. I put V4 stuff on G3 figures, I put G3 stuff on V4. I know. G8 is the now. I'll get there. I have >stuff

It can be done in either program and there are some third party programs that also allow you to refit items, but there's nothing else as fast and simple as DS's autofit. More than anything else, the convenience of being able to put the same outfit on any figure with just a couple of mouse clicks was what got me to switch from a Poser user who occasionally used DS to a DS user who occasionally uses Poser.

When I use it, the Autofit item needs adjustment. I'm glad it works for other people. Thank you for your reply. Very helpful.

I hope it doesn't come down to the Fitting Room being the last hope. I bought Poser Pro 2014 largely because of it. I've never had a single decent result from the Fitting Room, even when I try to go from fairly basic humanoid form that the same general scale and proportions. Granted, I did not spend a lot of time on it over the years and I have not tried it in quite a long time with any seriousness. I briefly tried the Fitting Room again with Dawn, but.. It didn't go well... Poser Pro 2014 turned out to be worth the investment, though, thanks to the morphing brush tools (which is an awesome tool once I sat down and learned how to use it to fix minor poke-through thanks to Sixus1's tutorial) and the "Copy Morphs From," and a few other bells and whistles. Most of my time with Poser Pro 2014 since last January has been spent rebuilding all my runtimes from scratch after colossal tech disaster (and this came after spending almost six months away from Poser in 20166 because I was without a Poser-worthy rendering machine after the computer malfunctioned). I've had to fix large percentages of my Poser purchases from days gone by (for things like bad texture references because everything gets checked out before i put it in my new runtimes). I get little time at the PC these days, so it's slow, frustrating work and I think about throwing in the towel with Poser and everything 3D about every other day. I haven't, because part of me still remembers late 2005 to 2007 (and a few intervals since, brief though they were) when Poser was still fun. I'd like to get back to the fun stuff, some day.

Honestly, I understand why Smith Micro hasn't bowed to the pressure to make the newest Daz figures work inside of Poser, at least to some degree. It would leave them at Daz's mercy every time Daz changes formats or technical directions on a whim. People would expect Smith Micro to roll out new tech to go along with it every time. We would probably see even slower progress in Poser's fixing long-standing issues and adding new bells and whistles in newer versions of Poser. I honestly can't say I think that them bowing to the pressure and adding that support for the newer Daz figures would do Poser any good in the long run. But, I'm just a lowly mostly hobbyist (and small-fry Renderosity vendor) with a small budget, so I may be wrong.

I'm a Poser-only user. I'm still here toiling away, even after 2016's & 2017's disasters and pains. I'm still buying some new releases. I'm still buying some back-catalog stuff. Not a lot, because my Poser budget is ever-shrinking these days due to personal circumstances. I don't have time or money to invest in content that I have to learn how to shoe-horn into working in Poser. If it's not Poser-ready, my money doesn't fly across to cyberspace into the 3D sites' pockets. It is getting a little harder, month-by-month, for me to justify patronizing the stores of vendors whom have already turned their backs on Poser and their former Poser customers, when it comes to deep back catalog stuff. I intend to stop doing as much back catalog shopping and start giving more of my small budget to vendors whom are still actively supporting Poser.

Poserverse has been an interesting learning experience, that's for sure. LOL I've made some friends (and lost quite a few). I've learned a lot, even though I don't have an art background. I may not be an "artist," but the road has been... interesting.

Being ok with everything that's going on(or not) with them. Blaming all their problems on someone else. has created a complacent company. They dont need loyalty to the end right now, What they need is a swift kick in the butt to get their act together. complacency will kill any company eventually.

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HP Zbook 17 G6, intel Xeon 64 GB of ram 1 TB SSD, Quadro RTX 5000

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tiggersprings posted at 1:01PM Fri, 06 April 2018 - #4327551

Honestly, I understand why Smith Micro hasn't bowed to the pressure to make the newest Daz figures work inside of Poser, at least to some degree. It would leave them at Daz's mercy every time Daz changes formats or technical directions on a whim.

Again, this should be a serious conversation about how SM can get poser users the content they need. At DAZ's mercy? Poser users mostly use V4.. who owns that? That line of logic means you were already at their mercy since Victoria 3. SM's continuing lack of effort has lead to the situation today... and threads like this.

Now that we've thrown that argument away, the focus should be on SM, not anything perceived as what DAZ is doing. As I've said before, if poser users don't want to have anything to do with DAZ, they should have held SM's feet to the fire years ago to help vendors so that they would not have to migrate to make DAZ products because that's where the users migrated in addition to not buying enough Poser products to support their vendors.

Seriously, you bought poser.. if there's an issue with poser users not getting content then SM is to blame.

Actually, I mostly use toon figures and have for years, so you're making an assumption there. Currently, I don't even have V4 (or any other generation of Daz adult figure re-installed). I've only gotten as far as installing Kids 4, as of yet. When i have a few minutes to sit down and work on re-installing stuff, I'm working on the pre-K4 child figures, not that it matters to anyone other than myself. Here is my prograss, sans K4, if you care to take a look.

http://fav.me/dbuf4cq

Yeah, I do buy Daz Generation 4 stuff. I went years without doing so, though. I've only been using Daz Generation 4 stuff since late 2011. I gave up on them in 2007 because I had unresolved issues with v4 and my computer at the time. When I upgraded to the previous PC, I began playing with Pre-Genesis Generation 4.

tiggersprings posted at 12:33PM Fri, 06 April 2018 - #4327568

Actually, I mostly use toon figures and have for years, so you're making an assumption there. Currently, I don't even have V4 (or any other generation of Daz adult figure re-installed). I've only gotten as far as installing Kids 4, as of yet. When i have a few minutes to sit down and work on re-installing stuff, I'm working on the pre-K4 child figures, not that it matters to anyone other than myself. Here is my prograss, sans K4, if you care to take a look.

http://fav.me/dbuf4cq

Yeah, I do buy Daz Generation 4 stuff. I went years without doing so, though. I've only been using Daz Generation 4 stuff since late 2011. I gave up on them in 2007 because I had unresolved issues with v4 and my computer at the time. When I upgraded to the previous PC, I began playing with Pre-Genesis Generation 4.

What happen to all your stuff?

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HP Zbook 17 G6, intel Xeon 64 GB of ram 1 TB SSD, Quadro RTX 5000

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TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 12:38PM Fri, 06 April 2018 - #4327571

What happen to all your stuff?

The external drive that housed my runtimes malfunctioned in January 2017. I found out at the same time that my backup was unresponsive. So, rebuilding from scratch.

tiggersprings posted at 2:15PM Fri, 06 April 2018 - #4327568

Actually, I mostly use toon figures and have for years, so you're making an assumption there.

In my post I said mostly.. and K4 is still a DAZ product.

tiggersprings posted at 2:15PM Fri, 06 April 2018 - #4327568

Actually, I mostly use toon figures and have for years, so you're making an assumption there.

In my post I said mostly.. and K4 is still a DAZ product.

Yes, true. Honestly, I haven't used K4 much. I usually render toons, as I said.

Male_M3dia posted at 2:37PM Fri, 06 April 2018 - [#4327564](

Now that we've thrown that argument away, the focus should be on SM, not anything perceived as what DAZ is doing. As I've said before, if poser users don't want to have anything to do with DAZ, they should have held SM's feet to the fire years ago to help vendors so that they would not have to migrate to make DAZ products because that's where the users migrated in addition to not buying enough Poser products to support their vendors.

The problem, unfortunately, is two-fold. First, there's the simple fact that a large portion of the Poser base allowed themselves to fall into the "good enough" syndrome. Poser with V4 generation product was good enough for them, they already had invested in the key V4 base products, so why invest heavily in new ones if what they had worked? But not investing in new base products tends to lead to less and less new product being purchased overall, and in the long term that's going to stifle innovation as well. Did anyone really think that support would exist for the new SuperFly renderer when the Hivewire figures, which had a lot more potential for helping turn the Poser market around, are still struggling to find a space in a market dominated by a hacked version of a much older product? The BIGGER problem, though, is that there has been a fundamental misconception by many in the user base as to who and what Smith Micro is and how important Poser is to SM in general. Because Smith Micro is NOT "the company that makes Poser." Smith Micro is a company whose primary business these days is in wireless communication, which happens to have bought the rights to Poser back in 2008 as part of a much larger series of acquisitions, and Poser is just one small part of a small subdivision of the company. Worse, Poser isn't even SM's best selling graphic product, as that title goes to Manga Studio, and the company as a whole has been struggling to achieve profitability for years. Under those conditions, it's unwise to anticipate SM spending any more time and effort developing Poser than absolutely necessary, and the fact that a large portion of the Poser user base has been so actively adamant in the support of older tech has only served as a green light to cut that spending to the bone. After all, why spend money you don't have to, especially when pushing the edge can actually risk a major backlash like DAZ got with the introduction of Genesis?

By comparison, DAZ 3D's business is, and always has been, selling 3D models and figures. If they don't keep selling figures and accessories, they're out of business, so keeping this market alive and growing was an absolute necessity for their survival. Had the Poser base alone been sufficient to guarantee a steadily growing market for DAZ's product, there would have been little need to develop DAZ Studio at all. However, it obviously wasn't sufficient for DAZ's designs, and the fact that the market for DS product is apparently thriving while Poser-specific production seems to be gasping for breath is pretty indicative that no matter who was "right" or "wrong" in the whole DS/Poser split, the v4/Genesis controversy or the various Firefly/3DL/Iray decisions, the end result is that DAZ's path has come out as the clear winner from a business perspective. And while this may be just a hobby for most of us, many of the people who actually make the toys we play with have to treat it as a business as well and go where the money is.

tiggersprings posted at 11:04PM Fri, 06 April 2018 - #4327573

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 12:38PM Fri, 06 April 2018 - #4327571

What happen to all your stuff?

The external drive that housed my runtimes malfunctioned in January 2017. I found out at the same time that my backup was unresponsive. So, rebuilding from scratch.

wow sorry to hear that..well..at least you still have it though its a pita to install all that stuff again..but..at least you still have them.

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TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 9:36AM Sat, 07 April 2018 - #4327624

wow sorry to hear that..well..at least you still have it though its a pita to install all that stuff again..but..at least you still have them.

Thanks. It's very frustrating. I had wanted to re-do my runtimes someday, but not because of total disaster. I'm sure there's stuff I'm missing. This PC can only access about one in every three archive CDs and DVDs from the older computers, so.... Yet another lurch.

Some old stuff, I'm just not capable of fixing. So I'm losing some golden oldies of my purchased Poser content that way, too. Once in a while, I run across and oldie that, for whatever reason, Poser Pro 2014 just destroys and it's just above my knowledge levels to try to fix. With my luck, it's usually a favorite old toy, too.

CybersoxXIII posted at 9:13AM Sat, 07 April 2018 - #4327590

The problem, unfortunately, is two-fold. First, there's the simple fact that a large portion of the Poser base allowed themselves to fall into the "good enough" syndrome. Poser with V4 generation product was good enough for them, they already had invested in the key V4 base products, so why invest heavily in new ones if what they had worked?

Not really a large portion. It was really a small number of unqualified, but vocal people that decided to speak for the masses, silencing and intimidating any dissension that allowed poorly made figures to be "good enough". Rather than getting vendors involved, they also spoke for vendors although they hadn't sold a single thing in their lives; which ended up with a figure that had issues, including mesh and weight map, that made it hard to morph and develop for.. and just throwing the result at the vendors then saying "here, now make stuff for it".. and those that did, didn't recoup their investments with flop products because the buying public could care less about any tribal loyalty to software so much that they'll actually pay hard earned money for something that in no way they would want to use. And that's really the heart of the matter: things only become popular when customers want to buy its content and vendors make money off of that content to continue. And this scenario happened several times, with the same exact result. After several of these failed releases, it's not hard to imagine why vendors and customers moved to other platforms.

Male_M3dia posted at 10:29PM Sun, 08 April 2018 - #4327645

CybersoxXIII posted at 9:13AM Sat, 07 April 2018 - #4327590

The problem, unfortunately, is two-fold. First, there's the simple fact that a large portion of the Poser base allowed themselves to fall into the "good enough" syndrome. Poser with V4 generation product was good enough for them, they already had invested in the key V4 base products, so why invest heavily in new ones if what they had worked?

Not really a large portion. It was really a small number of unqualified, but vocal people that decided to speak for the masses, silencing and intimidating any dissension that allowed poorly made figures to be "good enough". Rather than getting vendors involved, they also spoke for vendors although they hadn't sold a single thing in their lives; which ended up with a figure that had issues, including mesh and weight map, that made it hard to morph and develop for.. and just throwing the result at the vendors then saying "here, now make stuff for it".. and those that did, didn't recoup their investments with flop products because the buying public could care less about any tribal loyalty to software so much that they'll actually pay hard earned money for something that in no way they would want to use. And that's really the heart of the matter: things only become popular when customers want to buy its content and vendors make money off of that content to continue. And this scenario happened several times, with the same exact result. After several of these failed releases, it's not hard to imagine why vendors and customers moved to other platforms.

The sad thing is that I couldn't figure out which company/group you were talking about from the text of your response, because parts of the scenario you sketched out pretty much fit all the various players at various points. SM, DAZ, the users, the vendors... there have been a lot of missteps by all involved in the last ten years, and in retrospect a lot of it turned out to be a "Blind Men describing the Elephant" situation where very few people had access to all of the same facts at the same time. ;/

I think the difference in philosophy between the two companies is DAZ's product is the content - the program is just the means to use it. With Smith Micro, the product is the program, the content is just what it creates. The difference is the program can only be sold once per user - Smith Micro either has to grow it's user base or sell upgrades to recover it's development costs. DAZ on the other hand can focus on creating new content, changes to the program can be incremental, and they don't have to package them to justify buying an upgrade.

A lot of us that do 3D art do not have the time to create all the content from scratch, even if we took the time to learn the programs well enough to do it. We pay someone else to put those building blocks together so we can make our art. That's why sites such as this one exists.

Smith Micro, in any of their products, has never been focused on the end user, they are focused on business to business sales. If you look at the company itself that becomes obvious.

Sadly Poser ended up in the wrong hands.

Male_M3dia posted at 11:07AM Mon, 09 April 2018 - #4327645

Not really a large portion. It was really a small number of unqualified, but vocal people that decided to speak for the masses, silencing and intimidating any dissension that allowed poorly made figures to be "good enough". Rather than getting vendors involved, they also spoke for vendors although they hadn't sold a single thing in their lives; which ended up with a figure that had issues, including mesh and weight map, that made it hard to morph and develop for.. and just throwing the result at the vendors then saying "here, now make stuff for it".. and those that did, didn't recoup their investments with flop products because the buying public could care less about any tribal loyalty to software so much that they'll actually pay hard earned money for something that in no way they would want to use. And that's really the heart of the matter: things only become popular when customers want to buy its content and vendors make money off of that content to continue. And this scenario happened several times, with the same exact result. After several of these failed releases, it's not hard to imagine why vendors and customers moved to other platforms.

It sounds as though you think Poser experts--and other "important" people involved in Poser--are the only ones you think should be allowed to have--and voice--opinions about Poser. And likely only if their opinions happen to be the same as your personal opinions. Honestly, if you have such ill-feelings towards Poser users that still want content for their program of choice, why are you following this thread, especially if you're now using Daz Studio exclusively--and happy doing so? It seems to me every time people that are still using Poser, and still enjoying it for the most part, try to have open, public conversation about what they'd like to see for new Poser content, people like you come along and tell them, "Hey, you made your choice..." Yeah, people that are still using Poser did make their choice, but if you're so happy using Daz Studio, why harass people that are still, for the most part, enjoying using Poser? It seems to me life is too short to spend time grinding an ax, if you're no longer even using Poser (if you ever did).

pspchar posted at 12:30PM Mon, 09 April 2018 - #4327756

Male_M3dia posted at 11:07AM Mon, 09 April 2018 - #4327645

Not really a large portion. It was really a small number of unqualified, but vocal people that decided to speak for the masses, silencing and intimidating any dissension that allowed poorly made figures to be "good enough". Rather than getting vendors involved, they also spoke for vendors although they hadn't sold a single thing in their lives; which ended up with a figure that had issues, including mesh and weight map, that made it hard to morph and develop for.. and just throwing the result at the vendors then saying "here, now make stuff for it".. and those that did, didn't recoup their investments with flop products because the buying public could care less about any tribal loyalty to software so much that they'll actually pay hard earned money for something that in no way they would want to use. And that's really the heart of the matter: things only become popular when customers want to buy its content and vendors make money off of that content to continue. And this scenario happened several times, with the same exact result. After several of these failed releases, it's not hard to imagine why vendors and customers moved to other platforms.

It sounds as though you think Poser experts--and other "important" people involved in Poser--are the only ones you think should be allowed to have--and voice--opinions about Poser. And likely only if their opinions happen to be the same as your personal opinions. Honestly, if you have such ill-feelings towards Poser users that still want content for their program of choice, why are you following this thread, especially if you're now using Daz Studio exclusively--and happy doing so? It seems to me every time people that are still using Poser, and still enjoying it for the most part, try to have open, public conversation about what they'd like to see for new Poser content, people like you come along and tell them, "Hey, you made your choice..." Yeah, people that are still using Poser did make their choice, but if you're so happy using Daz Studio, why harass people that are still, for the most part, enjoying using Poser? It seems to me life is too short to spend time grinding an ax, if you're no longer even using Poser (if you ever did).

You didn't read anything I wrote. One can't speak for something that one doesn't know how to do. If one hardly buy products, then one can't speak for people that do. If one doesn't sell content, one simply can't speak for those that do... those people don't know how the process works, and workflows to make things. The problem is also when the voices of those that are qualified to make the decisions and opinions that should be valued are drowned out or stifled by those that aren't qualified. That's why you have had figure releases that have basically been DOA in because the "experts" are speaking for vendors and customers, and excluding vendors from the design process. This is why almost every figure has an issue that keeps vendors from touching it or customers from buying it. One can simply see that by looking at the 3D content percentages currently in the stores rather than trying to argue with me. My posts have been about give those people that make those products a voice so that poser users can get the content they need. Playing the blame game and telling people erroneously that they "have an ax to grind" is a distraction from helping vendors get the resources they need to produce Poser content.

It's really that simple.

Male_M3dia posted at 5:34PM Mon, 09 April 2018 - #4327757

My posts have been about give those people that make those products a voice so that poser users can get the content they need. Playing the blame game and telling people erroneously that they "have an ax to grind" is a distraction from helping vendors get the resources they need to produce Poser content.

It's really that simple.

Exactly. In the end, this hobby depends upon a huge amount of pre-made content to survive, and rather than being Poser users having an "open, public conversation about what they'd like to see for new Poser content", this thread is about how frustrated some Poser users are about the small amount of Poser compatible product that's being made compared to the massive volumes of new items being produced for DAZ. It's hardly the first thread on this subject and I doubt it will be the last, but the fact that threads like this exist at all points to the fact that there IS a problem. And the core of that problem is that while Smith Micro has been happy to take everyone's money for a new version of Poser every other year, they've essentially abandoned product support for just about everything else related to Poser to the hands of independent PAs and second party content stores. Like it or not, those PAs and stores are already deciding the future of Poser, so if PAs are moving to DS or cutting back on production, then knowing why those decisions are being made in the manner that they are is the best chance there is for effecting a positive change.

Interestingly enough, before Poser 11 was released, there was a blog posting on the main SM site about the new features in Poser and customers, who probably couldn't voice their opinion elsewhere because of these "experts", flooded the comments section demanding support for the newer DAZ figures.. it was right after the 2nd page of comments the blog comments were locked, and the next blog posts had comments disabled. That's really how SM valued their customer needs, so again, it's no wonder why the market is the way it is now.

I used to be a Poser user exclusively, bought all of the poser pro versions/upgrades. The latest version started constantly crashing on my old PC so I took a break for a year and when I got my new PC I reinstalled it and... it still kept crashing I got lucky if I finished one render, if it did not crash before that it would certainly do upon closing, that bothered me and I stopped using it.

I thought I was done with Poser more or less and by extension 3D. I too noticed the "content drought" before i resolved myself to giving up the hobby because the program got so frustrating and after having sunk SO SO much money into poser since Poser4 and content mostly for V4 that was discouraging. Seeing my favorite vendors move to DAZ sucked but honestly I totally understand, Bills are to be paid. Finally I began missing my 3D hobby so much I bit the bullet and tried DAZ and well loved it I can use most of my old content, make new materials for them and give them new life and autofit.. well let's just say it is leagues above the fitting room which I also could never get to work that well. And not for lack of trying I spent hours with tutorials and attempting to make it work.

Now I am so deep into Daz I would not return to poser and no amount of new content or new figures could change that. Most of the 3rd party figures and no offense meant to the creators I did not find worth investing to. The last time I did that I was sorely disappointed. I don't fault vendors for moving onto DAZ to pay their bills. Make the poser version and sell near to none of it or make a second DAZ product in the time that pays the electric bill that month? I'd be making that second DAZ product too.

I do not understand brand/product loyalty if the brand or product does nothing to keep your loyalty. Smith Micro lost my business because I am no longer confident in the product. I expect something that does not crash nonstop for the money I paid. Also, I'd love to use figures that work better than V4 are not as ugly as poser native figures or poorly supported like 3rd party figures. I vote with my wallet every time. Instead of faulting vendors for the problem people need to set their eyes on the real culprit. SM who have done nothing to be able to keep up with the times.

Laylah posted at 11:34AM Thu, 12 April 2018 - #4327953

I do not understand brand/product loyalty if the brand or product does nothing to keep your loyalty. Smith Micro lost my business because I am no longer confident in the product. I expect something that does not crash nonstop for the money I paid.

The problem is that we actually have two brands overlapping here. For many, the name Poser means the innovative program that served as a gateway for a lot of people to experiment with 3D, and then there's "Poser", the product that's produced and sold by Smith Micro. The thing is, most of the "good vibes" that endeared Poser to so many are the direct result of work that other companies did, primarily Curious Labs, Eovia and Zygote/DAZ3D, none of who are involved with the product anymore. While Smith Micro did add some new things early on, primarily during the initial release of Poser Pro, it's been years since the base program has received anything more than perfunctory upgrades while SM's chased after different and larger market segments that have nothing to do with graphics and 3d. To me, I think the thing that epitomizes SM most is the fact that under their aegis Content Paradise expects you to pay extra for the privilege of being able to re-download your product in the future. If they're not willing to provide a simple basic service to their customers that every other store in this market offers to their customers as a free courtesy, it's hard for me to justify much loyalty to SM, especially on a product that I feel would be in much better shape if someone else had acquired it.

Forum: MarketPlace Customers

Subject: Poser user really frustrated with store contents...