Are we likely to get a New Poser Pro 12 or whatever? Seems Poser is being left behind in the amateur graphics market! Cheers

Custom built computer 128 gigs RAM,4 Terabyte hard drive, NVIDIA RTX 4060 TI 16 GIG Gig,12 TH Generation Intel i9, Dual LG Screens, 0/S Windows 11, networked to a Special 12th Generation intel I9, RTX 3060 12 Gig, Windows 11,64 gigs RAM, Dual Phillips Screens, 2 Terabyte SSD Hard Drive plus 1 Terabyte Hard Drive,3rd Computer intel i7,128 gigs ram, Graphics Card NVIDIA RTX 3060 Gig,1 Terabyte Hard Drive, OS Windows 11 64 Bit Dual Samsung Syncmaster 226bw Screens.Plus INFINITY Laptop 64 Bit,64 gigs RAM.Intel i9 chip.Windows 11 Pro and Ultimate. 4 x 2 Terrabyte Hard Drives and 2 x 2 Terrabyte external USB Hard drives. All Posers from 4 to Poser 2010 and 2012, 2014. Poser 11 and 12, 13, Hexagon 2.5 64 Bit, Carrara 8.5 Pro 64 bit, Adobe Photoshop CS4 Creative Production Suite. Adobe Photoshop CC 2024, Vue 10 and 10.5 Infinite Vue 11 14.5 Infinite plus Vue 15 and 16 Infinite, Vue 2023 and 2024, Plant Catologue, DAZ Studio 4.23, iClone 7 with 3DXchange and Character Creator 3, Nikon D3 Camera with several lenses. Nikon Z 6 ii and Z5. 180-600mm lens, 24-70 mm lens with adapter.Just added 2x 2 Terrabyte portable hard drives.

There have been some changes at SmithMicro ... and I assure you there is more coming soon. Poser is alive and well ... and continuing to grow!

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Many thanks for your reply.I was a bit concerned that with the change of management with Poser it might have been coming to an end.I use have used Poser since version 4.Cheers

FVerbaas posted Fri, 19 October 2018 at 12:54 AM Online Now! Forum Coordinator

There is a devlog now at the Smith Micro Poser forum where they inform about progress. You may want to check that. The thread is locked, so it is bulletin only. There is another thread open for discussions.

What concerns me the most is newer content for Poser 2014-11. Seems that with the introduction of DS into the marketplace Poser has been left behind.

Eddy

Inspired_Art posted at 5:59PM Mon, 22 October 2018 - #4338040

What concerns me the most is newer content for Poser 2014-11. Seems that with the introduction of DS into the marketplace Poser has been left behind.

It seems that way, but I think it's only because of the showcase of the art that we see at Daz. Daz3d.com has a lot of renders that look really good and I think some people forget that not everyone is creating renders like that with the software. When you look at the site, the first thing that most people probably think is "Wow. I can create stuff like that too if I use DazStudio" which isn't exact as true as it plays in the mind of new users.

Not everyone is going to incredible art, especially during the learning phase. DazStudio also is free and much of their success comes from their Content not so much the software. Don't get me wrong, their software is good, but their content carries them big time. If SmithMicro want's Poser to compete on that same level then they really have to invest in some really good 3D content of their own. I'm not saying that the Poser users don't create great 3d Content, but I am saying that users can't carry it all their own. At some point Poser will need to decide to be compatible with Daz3D creations or if they are going to invest in content of their own, like the really good stuff.

If they create a character then make sure that there's a lot of clothing available for it. Tap into various types of 3D interests and niches. Don't just give the 3D models that one can use to "play around with" before investing into something else like V4. Poser can do a lot of cool things and has a lot of flexibility. i'm still using 3rd generation figures like Aiko 3 and to be honest, I don't think Daz3d can make those look any better. I'm not saying I'm awesome with Poser, far from it, but if I can take an old figure like Aiko 3 below and get results like this, then someone much better than me should really be incredible. The best thing is that Daz Studio has already paved a path for identifying what type of content to create and that takes away a lot of the guessing. Smith Micro shouldn't try to let the products users carry the burden for creating content. Smith Micro should lead the way. Daz Originals vs Poser Originals speaks volumes.

I agree. I still use and buy a lot of things for the Michael and Victoria 4 models. I haven't exactly brought everything on my list at either Rendo or Daz, but it's a shorter list than it was before.

Eddy

I would be sad to see Poser's end . But I am confident, they didn't move the dev team to Europe to do nothing with it. All this takes time. What is sure is that the next version will be a real challenge for the continuation of Poser at SmithMicro. Just in case it is wise to have one foot on Poser and the other on Daz Studio. But there's enough room for both.

@Inspired_Art, still using and purchasing V4 stuff too :)

Yarp - author of P3DO Organizer for Poser

I can imagine, that Poser will be revamped dramaticley, which I think is the best SM can do. They changed their location to Portugal, they've changed the development team. I do think, that was unavoidable. Poser needs fresh blood to survive. Poser needs some WOW-figures and some WOW-features, to end this reign of V4. Poser will be save, as soon users drop V4 and are happy to use SM figures. That means SM figures must become better.

I was at the SM website not long ago and they said they are working on Poser 11.1.1 Supposedly an update? Here is what the forum post said: "Upcoming Releases The first maintenance release to 11.1 will be 11.1.1 - While I cannot tell you when it will be ready, it's the first thing on my mind in the morning when I arrive at the office. This version is a long time in coming, and has significant fixes and improvements over 11.1 - when we do release this version (hopefully, soon!) I will post the Release Notes here so you can get a feel for what's fixed and what's different."

arrow1 posted at 10:03AM Thu, 25 October 2018 - #4337911

Many thanks for your reply.I was a bit concerned that with the change of management with Poser it might have been coming to an end.I use have used Poser since version 4.Cheers

Out of curiosity, just what do you feel Poser has been left behind in? Even if I concede that Poser should have made significant advancements by now, compared to other brands it's not like they're leaps and bounds ahead of Poser.

Out of curiosity, just what do you feel Poser has been left behind in?

Three major areas: Native base figures that look good enough to be widely embraced by

clothing & morph content creators And have uniform standards for content development for the base figures.

Sydney,Alison,Roxie Pauline, ( and their erstwhile male counter parts) Failed horribly to meet this standard.

This is not just my opinion this is what history has shown us. poser has been left behind in base figure appeal

A completely new Cloth fitting/rigging system for content vendors that allows you to model clothing for a base shape /import to poser click less than three times and you have a conformer that will Automatically follow the shapes of a figure when you change the morph dials.

Clothing content developers will never..ever return to poser or widely support exotic third party nonstandard rigs like "Project E" if rigging is any more difficult than Daz studio and IClone Character creator3

Poser is has been behind in content development and cloth rigging

Updated animation tools with a nonlinear motion clip recording system and a proper modern graph editor with cubic interpolation and readable dope sheet.

Poser has been left WAAAAYYY behind in Character animation

Have a look at this video from reallusion. No it is not free but neither is poser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hazb4e0V94

My website

YouTube Channel

For me Poser still lacks a lot when it comes to start up lighting and many of the models are being designed for Daz and not Poser... Poser can live in the Michael 4 and Victoria 4 past as long as they want but for me, I want and use the Genesis 8 models.

wolf359 posted at 2:14PM Thu, 25 October 2018 - #4338198

Out of curiosity, just what do you feel Poser has been left behind in?

Three major areas: Native base figures that look good enough to be widely embraced by

clothing & morph content creators And have uniform standards for content development for the base figures.

Sydney,Alison,Roxie Pauline, ( and their erstwhile male counter parts) Failed horribly to meet this standard.

This is not just my opinion this is what history has shown us. poser has been left behind in base figure appeal

A completely new Cloth fitting/rigging system for content vendors that allows you to model clothing for a base shape /import to poser click less than three times and you have a conformer that will Automatically follow the shapes of a figure when you change the morph dials.

Clothing content developers will never..ever return to poser or widely support exotic third party nonstandard rigs like "Project E" if rigging is any more difficult than Daz studio and IClone Character creator3

Poser is has been behind in content development and cloth rigging

Updated animation tools with a nonlinear motion clip recording system and a proper modern graph editor with cubic interpolation and readable dope sheet.

Poser has been left WAAAAYYY behind in Character animation

Have a look at this video from reallusion. No it is not free but neither is poser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hazb4e0V94

drafter69 posted at 3:50PM Thu, 25 October 2018 - #4338208

For me Poser still lacks a lot when it comes to start up lighting and many of the models are being designed for Daz and not Poser... Poser can live in the Michael 4 and Victoria 4 past as long as they want but for me, I want and use the Genesis 8 models.

As I'm told, you can use the Gen 8 models in current Poser. And I don't know what you mean by start up lighting.

Start up Poser get rid of Andy (if he loads up) now go to Scripts/Utility/delete Lights now create your own startup lights and Then go to Edit/General Preferences/Then under the Document Tab in the Launch Behavior section make sure Launch to preferred Scene is ticked then press the Set Preferred Scene Tab.and bang no more default start up lights..should be the way you want it. Mine loads with the wooden mannequin.for sentimental reason :)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

HP Zbook 17 G6, intel Xeon 64 GB of ram 1 TB SSD, Quadro RTX 5000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit to correct link in previous post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hazb4e0V94&t

My website

YouTube Channel

wolf359 posted at 9:57PM Thu, 25 October 2018 - #4338198

Out of curiosity, just what do you feel Poser has been left behind in?

Three major areas: Native base figures that look good enough to be widely embraced by

clothing & morph content creators And have uniform standards for content development for the base figures.

Sydney,Alison,Roxie Pauline, ( and their erstwhile male counter parts) Failed horribly to meet this standard.

This is not just my opinion this is what history has shown us. poser has been left behind in base figure appeal

A completely new Cloth fitting/rigging system for content vendors that allows you to model clothing for a base shape /import to poser click less than three times and you have a conformer that will Automatically follow the shapes of a figure when you change the morph dials.

Clothing content developers will never..ever return to poser or widely support exotic third party nonstandard rigs like "Project E" if rigging is any more difficult than Daz studio and IClone Character creator3

Poser is has been behind in content development and cloth rigging

Updated animation tools with a nonlinear motion clip recording system and a proper modern graph editor with cubic interpolation and readable dope sheet.

Poser has been left WAAAAYYY behind in Character animation

Have a look at this video from reallusion. No it is not free but neither is poser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hazb4e0V94

I have to ask because I honestly haven't followed this as closely as I probably should have. is Reallusion a suite of separate software programs that works together or is it one program that can do all of this on it's own at a cost of $600 or less?

EClark1894 posted at 9:51AM Fri, 26 October 2018 - #4338213

drafter69 posted at 3:50PM Thu, 25 October 2018 - #4338208

As I'm told, you can use the Gen 8 models in current Poser. And I don't know what you mean by start up lighting.

I'll never understand this. If you want to use genesis 8, use DAZ Studio. Project Evolution and Bella are the Figures to use for Poser, forget about the rest. PE is complicated , complex and not easy to use, but this is all because of huge work arounds. I mostley agree with wolf359 here. One more thing, that urgentley needs to be changed in future Poser releases: Stop breaking geometry into parts on figures' base meshes.

didn't we just do this conversation in general?

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2924201

ok if we want to go over it again.... tho we can save time and copy and paste over I suppose...

Airport security is a burden we must all shoulder. Do your part, and please grope yourself in advance.

I have to ask because I honestly haven't followed this as closely as I >probably should have. is Reallusion a suite of separate software >programs that works together or is it one program that can do all of >this on it's own at a cost of $600 or less?

It would be easier to just look at the product line on their site because to be honest..its a bit "complicated".

However in general there are various versions of Iclone based in your need to import from other apps or export to game engine and other 3DCC apps Each comes with a basic version of the Character creator program.

But there is now a Stand alone Character creator3 program that officially supports The Daz genesis 1,2,3,8 Mike& vicky 4 and the hivewire figures ( Dawn and co.) for clothing development, will use existing Daz clothing and has the IRay render engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hazb4e0V94&t</https:>

Have a look for the pricing on all of the various options ..Not cheap but well worth it IMHO with a company that has future roadmap

https://www.reallusion.com/iclone</https:>

My website

YouTube Channel

wolf359 posted at 7:41AM Fri, 26 October 2018 - #4338244

I have to ask because I honestly haven't followed this as closely as I >probably should have. is Reallusion a suite of separate software >programs that works together or is it one program that can do all of >this on it's own at a cost of $600 or less?

It would be easier to just look at the product line on their site because to be honest..its a bit "complicated".

However in general there are various versions of Iclone based in your need to import from other apps or export to game engine and other 3DCC apps Each comes with a basic version of the Character creator program.

But there is now a Stand alone Character creator3 program that officially supports The Daz genesis 1,2,3,8 Mike& vicky 4 and the hivewire figures ( Dawn and co.) for clothing development, will use existing Daz clothing and has the IRay render engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hazb4e0V94&t</https:>

Have a look for the pricing on all of the various options ..Not cheap but well worth it IMHO with a company that has future roadmap

https://www.reallusion.com/iclone</https:>

Well, I did look. There seems to be several different apps that work together to do several different things.

-Timberwolf- posted at 7:44AM Fri, 26 October 2018 - #4338238

EClark1894 posted at 9:51AM Fri, 26 October 2018 - #4338213

drafter69 posted at 3:50PM Thu, 25 October 2018 - #4338208

As I'm told, you can use the Gen 8 models in current Poser. And I don't know what you mean by start up lighting.

I'll never understand this. If you want to use genesis 8, use DAZ Studio. Project Evolution and Bella are the Figures to use for Poser, forget about the rest. PE is complicated , complex and not easy to use, but this is all because of huge work arounds. I mostley agree with wolf359 here. One more thing, that urgentley needs to be changed in future Poser releases: Stop breaking geometry into parts on figures' base meshes.

Will dial, Ghostship and Jura, are just three guys who constantly use Genesis in Poser renders. Honestly, I don't care what software you use. I agree with you though. The main reason I didn't migrate to DS when Genesis first came out was because it wouldn't work in Poser and because at the time DS didn't work on my Mac. I had never heard of IClone before Wolf started mentioning it in every post.

Well, I did look. There seems to be several different apps that work >together to do several different things.

Indeed to provide a different solution for a wide variety of end usage. Game content character dev

Pre-visualization for films.

animated filmmaking.

Creation of complex Character motion to be retargeted to imported figure rigs to be rendered in other programs Lightwave ,C4D,Modo,Poser,Daz studio via BVH ,BX or Alembic.

And now even NVIDIA IRay still renders of attractive ideal BMI white females from Daz & Hiveware.

This market needs more competition&options for content creators with viable alternatives to Daz & a floundering poser.

I have the Full Pipeline version that I use to create&retarget motion for my Daz genesis figures that are then exported to C4D for rendering my animated films.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjokKZX1r6I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_48wCRqC_eQ&feature=youtu.be

My website

YouTube Channel

I have to look at this from an all around perspective. Poser has one major advantage for me that Reallusion lacks. Poser will run on my mac. Actually, that was also one of the things that kept me from cozying up to Studio at first. While the software would run on the mac, Many of the features that DAZ sold to give Studio Poser-like features at that time, like Optitex, didn't run on my mac. Studio, to my knowledge, has overcome the no running on the mac problem, but now, meh, I just don't care. Everynow and then, I'm moved enough to try and learn how something is done in DS, but otherwise, it's just taking up space on my desktop.

Indeed we all are limited to what we can financially manage

I own three computers. Two Windows PC's and a really old mac from 2008.

Those animation clips I posted ,were rendered on my mac where I have C4D, Adobe CS ,after effects ,Final Cut pro ,Realfow and an old but still useful seat of MODO401

Staying with the Mac platform for 3D/CG Character animation, in this Day and age, is a fools gambit IMHO.

When I partially migrated to a windows 7 machine , I suddenly had full access to all of the DAZ Genesis tech and windows only third party addons for DS and of course Iclone Pro.

Which at the time had just leased the Autodesk Maya human IK system for Character animation in realtime in iclone 5.5

Apple has long abandoned the 3D/CG gaming market and is now a luxury brand for the affluent consumer .

The longer you stay on the Mac OS the more your future options for migrating to new 3D character related tech and rendering will disappear.

Your choice.

My website

YouTube Channel

wolf359 posted at 9:48AM Sat, 27 October 2018 - #4338302

Indeed we all are limited to what we can financially manage

I own three computers. Two Windows PC's and a really old mac from 2008.

Those animation clips I posted ,were rendered on my mac where I have C4D, Adobe CS ,after effects ,Final Cut pro ,Realfow and an old but still useful seat of MODO401

Staying with the Mac platform for 3D/CG Character animation, in this Day and age, is a fools gambit IMHO.

When I partially migrated to a windows 7 machine , I suddenly had full access to all of the DAZ Genesis tech and windows only third party addons for DS and of course Iclone Pro.

Which at the time had just leased the Autodesk Maya human IK system for Character animation in realtime in iclone 5.5

Apple has long abandoned the 3D/CG gaming market and is now a luxury brand for the affluent consumer .

The longer you stay on the Mac OS the more your future options for migrating to new 3D character related tech and rendering will disappear.

Your choice.

Yep, it is. But just like the people who keep foretelling of Poser's imminent demise, that hasn't happened yet either.

"But just like the people who keep foretelling of Poser's imminent demise, that hasn't happened yet either.

Software does not have to experience a total "demise" it only has to become largely supplanted within its market niche by other programs that do what it does but better with wider third party content support within its user base.

The included base figures, in the free version of Reallusion Character creator ,Already look better than Jessi,Alyson,Sydney Roxie,Pauline ever did. and the latest version of CC3 has content development tools that compete Equally with DAZ studio in terms of ease and exceed Daz studio in terms of Multiple figure support.(M4,V4,Hivewire bases)

Sure poser is not "Dead" and will never truly "Die" as long as it will run on the latest Core OS systems. But what new users or aspiring Clothing/Game dev makers, or Aspiring Character animators would choose to buy poser in this current market climate.???

On the matter of the Mac OS I was a Mac user since 1996 and worked as professional graphic designer for print for 19 years before getting into 3D /CG in my early 40 's.

No one is predicting the "demise" of the Mac platform. Apple technologies has a bigger market value than Exxon mobile from selling over priced, luxury smart phones..not workstations & laptops

However in the Area of 3D/CG, no major game development company or Hollywood FX house are using mac computers as their primary workstations because Apple Does not make Pro level CG hardware or support cutting edge graphic cards for rendering.

All of the developers in the areas of character animation, Like Reallusion, Ikinema Dont bother with Mac versions

You say you dont care now ..fine.

Remember however, it was our Macs ,and their lack of open GL support ,that locked you and Myself out of Daz studio 3.x,& genesis one in the early Days,when you at least admittedly had an interest in the figure platform.

My website

YouTube Channel

wolf359 posted at 12:11AM Sun, 28 October 2018 - #4338318

"But just like the people who keep foretelling of Poser's imminent demise, that hasn't happened yet either.

Software does not have to experience a total "demise" it only has to become largely supplanted within its market niche by other programs that do what it does but better with wider third party content support within its user base.

The included base figures, in the free version of Reallusion Character creator ,Already look better than Jessi,Alyson,Sydney Roxie,Pauline ever did. and the latest version of CC3 has content development tools that compete Equally with DAZ studio in terms of ease and exceed Daz studio in terms of Multiple figure support.(M4,V4,Hivewire bases)

Sure poser is not "Dead" and will never truly "Die" as long as it will run on the latest Core OS systems. But what new users or aspiring Clothing/Game dev makers, or Aspiring Character animators would choose to buy poser in this current market climate.???

On the matter of the Mac OS I was a Mac user since 1996 and worked as professional graphic designer for print for 19 years before getting into 3D /CG in my early 40 's.

No one is predicting the "demise" of the Mac platform. Apple technologies has a bigger market value than Exxon mobile from selling over priced, luxury smart phones..not workstations & laptops

However in the Area of 3D/CG, no major game development company or Hollywood FX house are using mac computers as their primary workstations because Apple Does not make Pro level CG hardware or support cutting edge graphic cards for rendering.

All of the developers in the areas of character animation, Like Reallusion, Ikinema Dont bother with Mac versions

You say you dont care now ..fine.

Remember however, it was our Macs ,and their lack of open GL support ,that locked you and Myself out of Daz studio 3.x,& genesis one in the early Days,when you at least admittedly had an interest in the figure platform.

Well, like I also said, What features that were being offered with DAZ were primarily only being offered for Windows clients. That wasn't an operating system issue that was a programmer issue. The fact that Poser has always had a Windows and Mac version was what initially pulled me in in the first place. The fact that it was affordable, unlike 3DS and Lightwave at that time which I believe was in excess of $1000, well, that did it for me. As for me want to try Genesis out at first, yes, my initial compulsion was to upgrade to the next version of the figure. Just as I had done on the previous four versions. Honestly, it took me a while to get use to the idea of thinking that Genesis was a platform and not just a figure. And for me personally, I don't feel as if I've missed anything.

But, then again, that's nothing against Genesis. That's me. New and shiny doesn't hold my attention for long. I was initially hyped to jump on the PE bandwagon. That cockeyed rollout made me lose interest in it personally. Nothing wrong with the figure, mind you. I just... don't care that much any more.

BTW: Rendo removed the IClone forum here.

-Timberwolf- posted at 12:36PM Sun, 28 October 2018 - #4338345

BTW: Rendo removed the IClone forum here.

Why?

underusage.

Airport security is a burden we must all shoulder. Do your part, and please grope yourself in advance.

Are they going to bring it back? Looks like reallusion is about to really take off with Character Creator 3. What happened to 1 and 2? Never heard of either.

That might just be what's needed to reinstate the iClone forum.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

I was being serious when I said I had never heard of Character Creator 1 or 2. So I tried to google it. Did it used to be Mixamo?

EClark1894 posted at 4:29AM Mon, 29 October 2018 - #4338386

I was being serious when I said I had never heard of Character Creator 1 or 2. So I tried to google it. Did it used to be Mixamo?

@ EClarke. Character creators version 1-2 were free programs that began shipping with Iclone 6.2 IIRC

They were essentially Reallusions acknowledgement that the native default Iclone Avatars were quite rubbish looking by todays standard. And that depending completely on a third party(DAZ inc) for your high quality figures,without offering your own, was a fools gambit.

Character creator 3 still comes in a free"lite"version that ships with the latest version of Iclone

It has the latest Reallusion base figures where you can morph and dress them much like Poser or DS. and send your custom characters to Iclone for realtime animation&motionbuilding.

The new Standalone Character creator 3 pipeline has the NIVDIA Iray engine and native supports M4,V4,Genesis 1,2,3,8 and the Hivewire figures for import,clothing creation via an easy weight transfer system Like the Daz three mouse click rigging utility I use for my custom outfits.

and of course low poly figure decimation for games etc (As depicted in the video)

It also has FBX export so you do not have to even buy the actual Iclone or 3DXchange programs.

On the matter of the Old Iclone forum gone missing.. All will become clear quite soon.

My website

YouTube Channel

EClark1894 posted at 4:53AM Mon, 29 October 2018 - #4338379

Are they going to bring it back? Looks like reallusion is about to really take off with Character Creator 3. What happened to 1 and 2? Never heard of either.

Probably not. There was a mass culling of little used forums about a year ago. Anything that hadn't been used in over six months got the chop. I remember looking at forums a few weeks before the cull and that forum was dead as a dodo for well over a year..

Looks like if may happen again... There's forums here that have only had admin posts in the last year or so....

Airport security is a burden we must all shoulder. Do your part, and please grope yourself in advance.

wolf359 posted at 6:58AM Mon, 29 October 2018 - #4338391

EClark1894 posted at 4:29AM Mon, 29 October 2018 - #4338386

I was being serious when I said I had never heard of Character Creator 1 or 2. So I tried to google it. Did it used to be Mixamo?

@ EClarke. Character creators version 1-2 were free programs that began shipping with Iclone 6.2 IIRC

They were essentially Reallusions acknowledgement that the native default Iclone Avatars were quite rubbish looking by todays standard. And that depending completely on a third party(DAZ inc) for your high quality figures,without offering your own, was a fools gambit.

Can't honestly say I disagree with that assessment. ...to a point.

I just gave a look at the Character Creator 3 presentation video. Quite impressive !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0PbNMZqG30

Yarp - author of P3DO Organizer for Poser

While I use Daz and think the material available for it are fantastic, I do not want to see poser go out of business. That would make Daz3d Studio the only game in town fo rmost people and then they could do whatever they want and charge whatever they want... competition is good

drafter69 posted at 2:14PM Wed, 31 October 2018 - #4338607

While I use Daz and think the material available for it are fantastic, I do not want to see poser go out of business. That would make Daz3d Studio the only game in town fo rmost people and then they could do whatever they want and charge whatever they want... competition is good

Well, I probably wouldn't move to Studio anyway. I'd probably move to Blender fulltime.

" That would make Daz3d Studio the only game in town for most >people and then they could do whatever they want and charge >whatever they want... "

Daz had better keep Daz studio free.. If SM stops producing Poser, Daz Studio would definitetly NOT be the "only game in town"

for Figure posing and IRray rendering of V4,M4 ,Hivewire&Genesis 1,2,3,8.

My website

YouTube Channel

so who could replace Poser as a competitor to Daz3d Studio????

EClark1894 posted at 2:22PM Thu, 01 November 2018 - #4338189

Out of curiosity, just what do you feel Poser has been left behind in? Even if I concede that Poser should have made significant advancements by now, compared to other brands it's not like they're leaps and bounds ahead of Poser.

Without saying who the other brands are, this is hard to dispute. It's true, Poser is not that far behind its main rival, D|S. D|S' main strength is that it works better with the figures people seem to want to use, and I often think that if Genesis magically began working in Poser many users would declare all is finally right with the world. I've fallen into the trap before of listing numerous things where Poser is lacking only to be told that those are high-end features I should not expect in a hobbyist program, and that I should only compare Poser to a few programs it directly competes with. For the longest time, that was pretty much just D|S. I think it's reasonable to say that Poser is also in competition with iClone, and if not then certainly Reallusion's Character Creator 3 is in direct competition with Poser (they pretty much say so in their forums). These discussions are almost impossible because the people who are typically the most content with Poser are the same ones Poser development has long been most focused on. I want to list things where Poser has totally missed the bus, but I know the apologies for most of them. So heck, I'll just try shooting them all down myself. Poser has an archaic viewport that doesn't represent either of its own CPU based renderers' materials correctly. It's bad enough that the preview doesn't support displacements (steep parallax mapping was introduced in 2005 and variations on this are now widely used), decent reflections, proper soft shadows, but it also fails to represent final output. iClone's viewport depicts PBR materials pretty much as they look in Marmoset or any other implementation, while also rivaling the fidelity of its Indigo and (soon) iRay output. IClone's PBR viewport isn't an exact match for its plug-in CPU renderers, but it's not a world apart, either. With Poser's viewport, Firefly and Cycles interpreting the same materials so differently, it would be interesting to see how Poser's viewport could be modernized without breaking all existing materials. I assume it would have to use the Cycles materials which are at least physically-based if not what would normally be meant by "PBR". But there's no good reason SM should waste resources improving the preview when its not meant for final output. Adding something like Eevee would take dozens of people many years to implement within Poser and would only benefit the small number of users who do animation, not the majority of Poser users who make high-res stills.
In the area of character creation, Manuel Bastioni Laboratory for blender offers a number of innovative tools that would not be unwelcome to Poser users. Among them are things like "Skin editor that automatically creates the displacement maps according to the character meta parameters (muscle, tone and age values)", "Fuzzy logic algorithm for interpolation permits to mix the parameters in real-time.", "Automatic generation of random characters:with special constrains, to allow the possibility to keep constant the characters heritage.", and "Algorithm to modify and finish the morphing in order to fit the expressions to the face shape." Experimental features include "Proxy fitting to automatically fit with one-click clothes to the characters and their poses, without needing of vertgroups, weights or skeleton.", "Automodelling system to create characters starting from a 3d draft. The user just provides a very rough model of what he has in mind, and the system automatically turns it in a realistic and coherent character.", and "Measure system to create a character just giving the body measures. Currently it supports 33 "classic" dimensions, as used in the most of anthropometric studies and researches." Of course, it's probably not realistic to expect a hobbyist program should have all of the features of a plug-in developed by one person over just a few years. While I don't know of any specific programs which implement implicit elastic skinning as described here (http://rodolphe-vaillant.fr/permalinks/elastic_implicit_skinning_project.php) in 2014, I can't help but wonder why there has been seemingly no effort to modernize Poser's archaic methodology. A proper muscle/body mass solution that could be adapted to existing figures would solve so many of Poser's problems. Instead people still ask for better figures, replacements for V4 or Posette even. Sure, JCMs and pose-handles can go a long way to overcome the deficiencies of a nearly 20 year old method of rigging figures, but wouldn't it be great to have figures that move like flesh and bone and not just bendy tubes with various kludges applied to make them look right? Again, this is another of those "what do you expect from a hobbyist program" requests. And my answer is the same as it has been for nearly ten years: The program is called "Poser", so posing is something it should do correctly. No more gravity defying breasts, no more calves cutting into thighs and arms intersecting rib cages, no more magnets to deform the buttocks of a seated figure. There are fixes for all of these, sure, but the underlying problem is always the same. If that problem could be properly addressed, then it wouldn't require a rocket surgeon to produce a figure that doesn't have a zip code in the Uncanny Valley. I think Poser is a great program for many things, don't get me wrong. But considering the aforementioned competition, is there a single thing Poser does better than all of them? I'm struggling to think of what it could possibly be.

drafter69 posted at 12:00PM Fri, 02 November 2018 - #4338710

so who could replace Poser as a competitor to Daz3d Studio????

Wolf359 is being really subtle, LOL, but I think he means Reallusion/Iclone, with it's Character Creator 3, is a direct competitor to DS since it can also do "Figure posing and IRray rendering of V4,M4 ,Hivewire&Genesis 1,2,3,8."

regards
prixat

I think you have some good points and suggestions that would be worth a look for SM to consider.

It would be nice with a more advance preview render that would allow for testing or specifying specific elements you would like to test, such as shadows, displacements etc. However Poser do have the ability to render out a PBR preview simply using low settings, the ability to area render at higher settings and so forth.

With Poser's viewport, Firefly and Cycles interpreting the same materials so differently, it would be interesting to see how Poser's viewport could be modernized without breaking all existing materials.

I don't think its possible to do this, taking into account that these render engines are completely different. I know I have said it before and that it tend to rub some people the wrong way, but there is no future in Firefly, for SM to spend resources on it would be a waste of time, it would require them to give it such an overhaul that they might as well spend the time implementing a new render engine instead. In my opinion they should rather spend their energy making Superfly faster, better lighting features, especially HDRI.

Instead people still ask for better figures, replacements for V4 or Posette even.

I think these should be kept separate from the features you refer to. Adding new high quality figures one or two each release would not interfere with the developments that you are referring to. And besides that, you have to ask yourself if such muscle/body feature would solve anything if they were applied to existing Poser figures? I doubt that. I do like the idea that you are talking about, but for this to work you need decent figures first. I can't help thinking about the facial features that they added to the new characters, where you could manipulate their faces in new and "smarter" way. Yet people did not really care, because the underlining figures were of such quality that it didn't matter. So don't get me wrong I would welcome the idea that you suggest, if you could apply it to existing figures at will like the Gs and Vs characters, but if you can't, new figures are needed first.

But considering the aforementioned competition, is there a single thing Poser does better than all of them? I'm struggling to think of what it could possibly be.

I don't really know if that's a relevant question, meaning it would be the same as asking is there anything that Maya does better than Max that would make you change from one to the other. I think you would find the answer to be almost purely what people prefer. And again can only stress that rarely only one program is used in any production, people use bit and pieces from several. Nothing prevent you from Posing in Poser and import the stuff into 3ds max or blender and continue working there, if you find some of their tools are working better for what you need.

I can only speak for my self since Poser is part of my workflow, that I use Poser because I think its faster to work in, the cloth room is easy to use and I haven't had that good experiences with Daz cloth features. Since I normally export everything to 3ds max anyway, its fairly few features that Im actually using that much. I do agree with you, that I would move more of my workflow to Poser were some of the features better. In fact I might move everything here, as I mostly use 3ds max, for rendering, hair, camera and lighting. Especially the last two, because I really don't like how these work in Poser. Since this is my workflow, the one feature that I personally would appreciate the most, would be for materials to be correctly imported into 3ds max, as this is currently what takes the most time for me.

So just to sum up, I don't really disagree with anything you are saying, but I think that they have to do it in the correct order, you can't keep adding advanced features when the basic of what people need is not working correctly. Meaning the characters in general, add those and then introduce what you suggested.

I love how desperate some people seem to be in their need to hate Daz... I am not the only one who dumped Poser because Daz3d Studio is easier and there is lots of content available for it.... The sites that seem to have been for poser content seem to be shutting down while sites that sell Daz material seem to be growing.... I do not want to see Smith Micro go under as I believe that competition is good for everybody, but SM doesn't seem to be able to pull their act together..... Develop Poser for the professional and they can never sell enough copies to stay in business. 3d art is a hobby for most people, not a profession. Daz has geared itself to the hobbyist, SM doesn't seem to know what they are aiming for..... Now, before you attack me for my not glorifying Poser all I can say is don't waste your time.... What Smith Micro DOES speaks to loudly that I can't hear anything you are saying to object.....

drafter69 posted at 12:56PM Fri, 02 November 2018 - #4338773

I love how desperate some people seem to be in their need to hate Daz... I am not the only one who dumped Poser because Daz3d Studio is easier and there is lots of content available for it.... The sites that seem to have been for poser content seem to be shutting down while sites that sell Daz material seem to be growing.... I do not want to see Smith Micro go under as I believe that competition is good for everybody, but SM doesn't seem to be able to pull their act together..... Develop Poser for the professional and they can never sell enough copies to stay in business. 3d art is a hobby for most people, not a profession. Daz has geared itself to the hobbyist, SM doesn't seem to know what they are aiming for..... Now, before you attack me for my not glorifying Poser all I can say is don't waste your time.... What Smith Micro DOES speaks to loudly that I can't hear anything you are saying to object.....

I don't hate DAZ. Never have. Not on my radar enough to even care. Apparently though, knowing that I and a few others are going to keep using Poser, despite your insistance that we stop and follow you to your new software, is driving you nuts. Good. good.

SM did a great job, when they took over Poser first. They've improved the morph brush and introduced the dependency editor. Two things, maybe the only two things ;-) , I miss painfully in DAZ Studio.

3D-Mobster posted at 11:59PM Fri, 02 November 2018 - #4338761

I think you have some good points and suggestions that would be worth a look for SM to consider.

It would be nice with a more advance preview render that would allow for testing or specifying specific elements you would like to test, such as shadows, displacements etc. However Poser do have the ability to render out a PBR preview simply using low settings, the ability to area render at higher settings and so forth.

With Poser's viewport, Firefly and Cycles interpreting the same materials so differently, it would be interesting to see how Poser's viewport could be modernized without breaking all existing materials.

I don't think its possible to do this, taking into account that these render engines are completely different. I know I have said it before and that it tend to rub some people the wrong way, but there is no future in Firefly, for SM to spend resources on it would be a waste of time, it would require them to give it such an overhaul that they might as well spend the time implementing a new render engine instead. In my opinion they should rather spend their energy making Superfly faster, better lighting features, especially HDRI.

Both Superfly AND Firefly already use HDRI lighting and have been able to for quite a while.

Instead people still ask for better figures, replacements for V4 or Posette even.

Figures are a matter of taste and hype. It actually took me a while to like V4 and I never really did like A4. I thought V3 and A3 were better lookig figures. None of that means that hyper realistic figures aren't better, just different and not what I need.

But considering the aforementioned competition, is there a single thing Poser does better than all of them? I'm struggling to think of what it could possibly be.

I don't really know if that's a relevant question, meaning it would be the same as asking is there anything that Maya does better than Max that would make you change from one to the other. I think you would find the answer to be almost purely what people prefer. And again can only stress that rarely only one program is used in any production, people use bit and pieces from several. Nothing prevent you from Posing in Poser and import the stuff into 3ds max or blender and continue working there, if you find some of their tools are working better for what you need.

I can only speak for my self since Poser is part of my workflow, that I use Poser because I think its faster to work in, the cloth room is easy to use and I haven't had that good experiences with Daz cloth features. Since I normally export everything to 3ds max anyway, its fairly few features that Im actually using that much. I do agree with you, that I would move more of my workflow to Poser were some of the features better. In fact I might move everything here, as I mostly use 3ds max, for rendering, hair, camera and lighting. Especially the last two, because I really don't like how these work in Poser. Since this is my workflow, the one feature that I personally would appreciate the most, would be for materials to be correctly imported into 3ds max, as this is currently what takes the most time for me.

So just to sum up, I don't really disagree with anything you are saying, but I think that they have to do it in the correct order, you can't keep adding advanced features when the basic of what people need is not working correctly. Meaning the characters in general, add those and then introduce what you suggested.

You can't think of anything Poser does better? How about being innovative? I'll give DAZ all the praise o the content, because that's what they do. But I haven't seen they actually do anything better with the features they have, just differently.

You can't think of anything Poser does better? How about being

innovative? But I haven't seen they actually do anything better with the features

they have, just differently.

You have made it clear that you will never be a Daz studio user so I am not trying to "convert" you or anyone . however

Where has poser innovated recently ??

Rigging& content dev?? Animation?? Rendering??

Daz studio's Clothing rigging tools are way more advanced than the "fitting" room for content development and every former poser content maker I have spoken to, on this matter ,say that is the main reason they switched and ..would never go back,

And the Poser figure rigging tools are primitive and archaic according to "Ero" who complained loudly and publicly about them ,in these forums ,when creating "Project E"

The Daz Custom figure set tools are more modern and support geografting and are much more comprehensive according to former poser figure maker SIXUS1.

Yes the poser morph brush is "useful" but for what??? creating a character morph right there in the viewport and fixing poke thru in clothing.

Well Most professional Content developers are using external modeling programs to create proper ,precise custom character morphs and poke thru should not be happening if you have a proper cloth rigging system with collision iterations like auto fit.

As a Professional Character animator who has Poser Pro 2014 for windows, I can assure you Poser has not been "innovative" in the Area of Character animation& motion building.

Its character animation tools have remained effectively unchanged since the 1990's as it has no nonlinear motion clip system Like the free one included in Daz studio. and the Daz puppeteer system of animating via stored poses in an easy interface, is far more innovative than those aged pose dots in poser. And the unidirectional"IK system is broken and unusable

SM tacked on a fork of blender cycles and called it "Superfly" However you cannot even switch to viewport rendered mode and see instant updates of your material changes and I dont believe it actually supports the extemely powerful Principled Shader that is in the "real Cycles engine nor the NPR toon render from the "real" blender cycles.

Also.. Where does one get the Official poser SDK for external innovative, poser plugin development??

There are many third party Plugins that add much needed functionality to Daz studio. ..some free.. some paid.

Such as GraphMate Spline graph editor& keyMate dope sheet editor for Character animationThe Fluidos Fluid dynamics simulator that works like Nextlimit realflow in Daz studio.

The FREE Teleblender plugin that exports Daz scenes to blender with auto creation of cycles node for the Daz materials. or the "Dyncreator" plugin by RMP merchant "lola69" that I use to convert my modeled Dynamic clothing to Opitex format for cloth simulation.

Other than the willdial script . what was the last major innovative external plugin developed for poser ????

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EClark1894 posted at 1:07PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338845

Both Superfly AND Firefly already use HDRI lighting and have been able to for quite a while.

Figures are a matter of taste and hype. It actually took me a while to like V4 and I never really did like A4. I thought V3 and A3 were better lookig figures. None of that means that hyper realistic figures aren't better, just different and not what I need.

I know that Poser can use HDRI, but the features are very limited for actually working with HDRI. For instant the ability to rotate the map, control it strength and so on. Even the ability to work with a default light while the HDRI is the only light in the scene.

Obviously figures are a matter of taste wont argue with that, but to me there is a reason why G and V characters are so popular and its not only a matter of content. But they are actually quite good. With decent rigs and so forth. And there is no reason as I see it, why SM shouldn't match them with their own characters, remember that Poser through all the releases kept adding new characters and for the most time of higher quality, as far as I know, it started to really drop when they failed matching those that Daz released. And my guess is that they thought it weren't really important because people could just use those. But it have put them behind in my opinion. Because they have to follow up of what figures Daz releases, as you can see when the new G were released and it couldn't easily be used in Poser. In my opinion that is a bad position to be in for SM, instead of making and supporting their own characters.

3D-Mobster posted at 11:10AM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338864

EClark1894 posted at 1:07PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338845

Both Superfly AND Firefly already use HDRI lighting and have been able to for quite a while.

Figures are a matter of taste and hype. It actually took me a while to like V4 and I never really did like A4. I thought V3 and A3 were better lookig figures. None of that means that hyper realistic figures aren't better, just different and not what I need.

I know that Poser can use HDRI, but the features are very limited for actually working with HDRI. For instant the ability to rotate the map, control it strength and so on. Even the ability to work with a default light while the HDRI is the only light in the scene.

Obviously figures are a matter of taste wont argue with that, but to me there is a reason why G and V characters are so popular and its not only a matter of content. But they are actually quite good. With decent rigs and so forth. And there is no reason as I see it, why SM shouldn't match them with their own characters, remember that Poser through all the releases kept adding new characters and for the most time of higher quality, as far as I know, it started to really drop when they failed matching those that Daz released. And my guess is that they thought it weren't really important because people could just use those. But it have put them behind in my opinion. Because they have to follow up of what figures Daz releases, as you can see when the new G were released and it couldn't easily be used in Poser. In my opinion that is a bad position to be in for SM, instead of making and supporting their own characters.

They didn't really fail by matching DAZ. In fact, if I recall, correctly, three of them, NearMe, Terai Yuki and Miki actually became quite popular. I believe what happened next was similar to what happened to Genesis. Poser changed the rigging on the figures. Up until that point, I believe the figures in Poser would work in Studio. When Poser changed the rigging, DAZ didn't adopt the change, and the figures would no longer work in Studio. I seem to recall a little dust up about it, but no gigantic push back, but that's why Poser figures don't work in Studio.

EClark1894 posted at 5:33PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338882

They didn't really fail by matching DAZ. In fact, if I recall, correctly, three of them, NearMe, Terai Yuki and Miki actually became quite popular. I believe what happened next was similar to what happened to Genesis. Poser changed the rigging on the figures. Up until that point, I believe the figures in Poser would work in Studio. When Poser changed the rigging, DAZ didn't adopt the change, and the figures would no longer work in Studio. I seem to recall a little dust up about it, but no gigantic push back, but that's why Poser figures don't work in Studio.

But it doesn't really matter whether its Poser characters that is not working in Daz or the other way around. However I do think that Daz have constantly kept up with releasing new characters, whereas SM haven't. It would be nice if all the characters worked perfectly regardless of software for the users, but since they keep introducing newer and better features and apparently ain't interested in working together for the whole community, so both software packages can benefit, it makes sense that they supply decent characters of their own. I don't think its clever of any of them to rely to much on each others stuff, and since Daz do supply the majority of the characters that people use, it automatically puts SM a few steps behind them. Because they can't guarantee that a new Poser version will also support new character releases by Daz. But they can guarantee high quality characters with good rigs and new features if they supply them themselves.

3D-Mobster posted at 9:09PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338889

EClark1894 posted at 5:33PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338882

They didn't really fail by matching DAZ. In fact, if I recall, correctly, three of them, NearMe, Terai Yuki and Miki actually became quite popular. I believe what happened next was similar to what happened to Genesis. Poser changed the rigging on the figures. Up until that point, I believe the figures in Poser would work in Studio. When Poser changed the rigging, DAZ didn't adopt the change, and the figures would no longer work in Studio. I seem to recall a little dust up about it, but no gigantic push back, but that's why Poser figures don't work in Studio.

But it doesn't really matter whether its Poser characters that is not working in Daz or the other way around. However I do think that Daz have constantly kept up with releasing new characters, whereas SM haven't. It would be nice if all the characters worked perfectly regardless of software for the users, but since they keep introducing newer and better features and apparently ain't interested in working together for the whole community, so both software packages can benefit, it makes sense that they supply decent characters of their own. I don't think its clever of any of them to rely to much on each others stuff, and since Daz do supply the majority of the characters that people use, it automatically puts SM a few steps behind them. Because they can't guarantee that a new Poser version will also support new character releases by Daz. But they can guarantee high quality characters with good rigs and new features if they supply them themselves.

I just think you're asking a car company to make superior tires to their tire supplier.

I just think you're asking a car company to make superior tires to

their tire supplier.

No.. he is simply saying that if your current tire"supplier" decides to start making tires that do not fit or function for your vehicle platform.

The responsibility Falls upon YOU* to remedy the situation for your customers on YOU

Having an emotional reaction to former the tire suppliers "betrayal" Does not solve your tire problem

This is how business works in a Capitalist economy on facts and logistical reality not wishes and Emotions

When Apple realized that motorola simply could not deliver chips with the performance apple needed, they switched to Intel. and mac users forgot that motorola ever existed.

Daz inc. themselves, had to finally admit that they made a fools bargain with optitex where they could bundle their cloth sim plugin with Daz studio yet had to rely on optitex to provide them with cloth meshes in the proprietary optitex format

Optitex trickel out a sparse amount of items and left Daz in the lurch with frustrated customers who complained "Poser can do it why not you DAZ !!! .

How did Daz finally respond to their customers needs/concerns??

with emotional rants that seem to imply that optitex is the only way to get dynamic cloth in Daz studio and how they betrayed us and "hurt the community"??

NO..they Created "Dforce" and started selling Dforce items in their store.

Reallusion Made similar Investment in better looking Base Males and female for iclone after Daz Changed the rigging in G3 and broke compatibility with Iclone 3Dxchange.

To me, its obvious that Smith Micro simply cannot afford to make in the investments in better base figures or they would have already.

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wolf359 posted at 8:36AM Sun, 04 November 2018 - #4338935

I just think you're asking a car company to make superior tires to

their tire supplier.

No.. he is simply saying that if your current tire"supplier" decides to start making tires that do not fit or function for your vehicle platform.

The responsibility Falls upon YOU* to remedy the situation for your customers on YOU

Having an emotional reaction to former the tire suppliers "betrayal" Does not solve your tire problem

This is how business works in a Capitalist economy on facts and logistical reality not wishes and Emotions

When Apple realized that motorola simply could not deliver chips with the performance apple needed, they switched to Intel. and mac users forgot that motorola ever existed.

Daz inc. themselves, had to finally admit that they made a fools bargain with optitex where they could bundle their cloth sim plugin with Daz studio yet had to rely on optitex to provide them with cloth meshes in the proprietary optitex format

Optitex trickel out a sparse amount of items and left Daz in the lurch with frustrated customers who complained "Poser can do it why not you DAZ !!! .

How did Daz finally respond to their customers needs/concerns??

with emotional rants that seem to imply that optitex is the only way to get dynamic cloth in Daz studio and how they betrayed us and "hurt the community"??

NO..they Created "Dforce" and started selling Dforce items in their store.

Reallusion Made similar Investment in better looking Base Males and female for iclone after Daz Changed the rigging in G3 and broke compatibility with Iclone 3Dxchange.

To me, its obvious that Smith Micro simply cannot afford to make in the investments in better base figures or they would have already.

I don't know if DAZ "created" D-Force or not, but it's hardly an "innovative" move. Poser has had the Bullet Physics engine for several versions now. I'll concede that SM's no marketing genius, But D-Force isn't doing anything that Bullet physics can't. In fact. I believe even Maya and Blender both use Bullet Physics. As for new figures to use. Poser has them. Again, hiring a marketing genius might help. Even Reallusion sees the potential in Dusk and Dawn, the Hivewire figures. I certainly do.

EClark1894 posted at 4:17PM Sun, 04 November 2018 - #4338923

I just think you're asking a car company to make superior tires to their tire supplier.

As wolf359 said, Poser used to come with good or at least decent characters for its time, its just that they for whatever reason, decided that it weren't important anymore. but rather kept shipping new Poser versions with the same old characters. And in those releases where they did add new ones, they simply weren't of very high standard. But there is nothing that prevent them from adding good characters again, they just need to hire a good character modeller and rigger, which there are plenty of. So they could easily find a good freelancer or whatever to do this. Obviously it will cost some money, but my guess is that it cost and have cost them a whole lot more by not doing it. Because it is one of the best and easiest way and most likely also the cheapest way to promote a new version of Poser in my opinion. And besides that it wouldn't interfere with further development of features.

I don't know if DAZ "created" D-Force or not, but it's hardly an >"innovative"...But D-Force isn't doing anything that Bullet physics >can't.

It does not matter who actually wrote the code for Dforce and ..no a cloth simulation engine is hardly "innovative" in this day and age.

What Matters is that Daz took steps to deal with optitex closed format Debacle, and gave their customers an internal Dynamic cloth solution that Daz owns/controls.

What steps have SM taken to deal with the apparent rejection by content developers of their native figures for the last decade???

Again, hiring a marketing genius might help.

Hiring A character modelor from Artstation.com would help more.

Even Reallusion sees the potential in Dusk and Dawn, the >Hivewire figures. I certainly do.

Reallusion understands strategic planning must preceed product development and marketing.

So they studied the prefabbed market & built a program that imports, and converts to native iclone Avatars, the prefabbed figures that are the most popular,Daz Genesis,Daz Mike&Vicky4 and Hivewire's Dawn and dusk

Not Don,judy,james,jessi,sydney simon ,alison Ryan, Rex or roxie Paul or pauline nor the various third party "saviour" figures from the ash bin of poser history.

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and once more we're into the usual fight.

I'm betting thread lock in 20 more posts...

Airport security is a burden we must all shoulder. Do your part, and please grope yourself in advance.

MagnusGreel posted at 11:36PM Sun, 04 November 2018 - #4338949

and once more we're into the usual fight.

I'm betting thread lock in 20 more posts...

Why would the posts be seen as a fight? nothing offensive have been said in any of them or do you mean since the word Daz and Poser is used in the same post its automatically going to end in a fight rather than a discussion and a sharing of thoughts regarding the software that people in the community uses?

It has to be possible to do that without every thread getting locked, but lets see if you are correct. 19 posts to go :)

18 left.

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The OP asked if there is anything new coming in Poser. I suspect if they wanted to know all about the new iClone software they would have asked in the iClone section of the forums. The same goes as to the state of DAZ. Not the topic and not a useful answer to the OP. The thread should have been locked a long time ago.

Rendo; this is why people left for the official SM forums and the unchanged lax control over the forums is not likely to be drawing them back; no matter the partnerships you are making with SM.

17 and I hope we don't have to keep counting. Kill it now and put us out of our misery.

I wouldn't call it a fight. Just a disagreement. Not even a contentious one. If you don't like the thread, you could always simply stop reading it.

parkdalegardener posted at 7:40AM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4338984

The OP asked if there is anything new coming in Poser. I suspect if they wanted to know all about the new iClone software they would have asked in the iClone section of the forums. The same goes as to the state of DAZ. Not the topic and not a useful answer to the OP. The thread should have been locked a long time ago.

Rendo; this is why people left for the official SM forums and the unchanged lax control over the forums is not likely to be drawing them back; no matter the partnerships you are making with SM.

17 and I hope we don't have to keep counting. Kill it now and put us out of our misery.

I don't think you can really blame rendo for this too much. When it comes down to it, SM needs to responsive in updating official threads they have here so these speculation threads don't even start. Though SM doesn't have to spill the beans on what they have coming up, but they should be doing better with posting updates. In their official announcements forum, it's 17 days shy of being a year since they've had any updates. As far as this site goes, that should be the spot to let poser users know that they're still here and working on any updates, especially in light of their partnership with Rendo to take content from Content Paradise. I haven't seen any posts from the Development manager (I think his name was Rafael) that had posted last year, so it would be a good time for him give users an update here as well as on the official site.

parkdalegardener posted at 2:09PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4338984

The OP asked if there is anything new coming in Poser. I suspect if they wanted to know all about the new iClone software they would have asked in the iClone section of the forums. The same goes as to the state of DAZ. Not the topic and not a useful answer to the OP. The thread should have been locked a long time ago.

Rendo; this is why people left for the official SM forums and the unchanged lax control over the forums is not likely to be drawing them back; no matter the partnerships you are making with SM.

17 and I hope we don't have to keep counting. Kill it now and put us out of our misery.

Ain't a forum for sharing thoughts and ask questions and get other peoples opinions? I do know that some threads gets offensive and forces rendo to close them, which is fine, But at least to me, nothing that have been said by other posters have offended me and I don't get the impression that I have offended them either.

I do know that Iclone might not have been of the interest of the OP, but it might and maybe he got his answer in the first few posts so is already satisfied. No one except SM is really able to answer his question, since no one knows for certain. So that other users uses his post for sharing thoughts derived from his question, might be of interest to him or it might not, but regardless, I doubt that he feel offended by people talking on about others topics.

I have a difficult time understanding why you blame a chat like this for people leaving? Do you think or know if the people you are referring to is really getting offended, if a thread matures and develop into other topics and that is enough for them to feel so offended that they leave a forum completely? If that is the case, I would assume that rendo would have no chance whatsoever at keeping them, because anything would be able to trigger them to leave, the moment someone mention Daz, Poser or Iclone in the same post, they would request for the thread to be locked. If a good constructive discussion and asking questions and sharing of thoughts ain't what makes a forum interesting in the first place, why even bother with them.

Personally i think its way more frustrating that every time you have to make a post, you have to be careful about what you write, because someone might feel offended. But since that is not the person I am and see nothing wrong in sharing my thoughts as long as its not a personal attack on someone, I simply refuse to take into account that people might get offended when talking about different software packages. I make content for both Daz and Poser, so both of them are of interest to me and simply prefer working in Poser as Im more used to that, but that doesn't mean that I "like" SM more than Daz and hope for them to go away. But comparing them and looking at good and bad things for each of them is interesting. But just because I make content for these programs, it doesn't mean I feel a need to yell for a thread to be closed because someone mentions Iclone,

I hope you see why its confuses me, because when you and others call for rendo to close the thread due to what I presume is primarily because of eclark, wolfs and my posts as none of them answers the OP question, which logically can only be answered with an "I don't know" answer and the moment that is not the case the thread should be closed or people might leave the forum. If thats the case, I think its sad to be honest.

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums
iClone users posted in iClone forums
Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

tonyvilters posted at 4:08PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339002

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

iClone users posted in iClone forums

Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

Can you do me a favor and try to explain why a discussion regarding the different software solution is an issue, I just don't get why it is considered such a bad thing?

You also refer to this as being a fight from what I understand, which is very surprising to me as wolf, eclark and me have all clearly stated that we all see it as nothing more than a discussion and sharing of thoughts and not as a fight. There have been no personal attacks of any sorts.

3D-Mobster posted at 9:47AM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339007

tonyvilters posted at 4:08PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339002

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

iClone users posted in iClone forums

Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

Can you do me a favor and try to explain why a discussion regarding the different software solution is an issue, I just don't get why it is considered such a bad thing?

You also refer to this as being a fight from what I understand, which is very surprising to me as wolf, eclark and me have all clearly stated that we all see it as nothing more than a discussion and sharing of thoughts and not as a fight. There have been no personal attacks of any sorts.

Stop fighting with him telling you that you guys are fighting.damn it. ? lol

oh almost forgot. #10

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tonyvilters posted at 6:10PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339002

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

iClone users posted in iClone forums

Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

I am a Poser user, a DS user and an IClone user. Yeah ;-P Anyway, I use every Forum, Id like to.

tonyvilters posted at 6:33PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339002

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

iClone users posted in iClone forums

Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

Seriousley, I'm glad, this is not about politics. ;-)

I'm going to address the original question, then I am going to butt out. A good way to measure where the direction of a product is going is to go over to their financial section and read what is being said in their conference calls. You might also want to check out the SEC filed financials, but the conference calls are where management discuss the future endeavors of the company. The company is Smith Micro, their stock symbol is SMSI. If you are going to be putting a significant amount of your time and talent into using a product, and are interested in what it's strategic placement in a company is, that's a good place to start.

diogenese19348 posted at 12:03PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339081

I'm going to address the original question, then I am going to butt out. A good way to measure where the direction of a product is going is to go over to their financial section and read what is being said in their conference calls. You might also want to check out the SEC filed financials, but the conference calls are where management discuss the future endeavors of the company. The company is Smith Micro, their stock symbol is SMSI. If you are going to be putting a significant amount of your time and talent into using a product, and are interested in what it's strategic placement in a company is, that's a good place to start.

Yeah, I'm going to have say that I don't think that will work in this case. It's what I keep pointing out to people who want SM to make better figures. SM is a software company. Poser isn't even the top earner among the SM products, as SM isn't even a computer graphics software company.

arrow1 posted at 12:59PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4337911

Many thanks for your reply.I was a bit concerned that with the change of management with Poser it might have been coming to an end.I use have used Poser since version 4.Cheers

I don't why or how I missed this question originally, but it wasn't Poser's management team that changed, but the development team.

EClark1894 posted at 1:14PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339103

diogenese19348 posted at 12:03PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339081

I'm going to address the original question, then I am going to butt out. A good way to measure where the direction of a product is going is to go over to their financial section and read what is being said in their conference calls. You might also want to check out the SEC filed financials, but the conference calls are where management discuss the future endeavors of the company. The company is Smith Micro, their stock symbol is SMSI. If you are going to be putting a significant amount of your time and talent into using a product, and are interested in what it's strategic placement in a company is, that's a good place to start.

Yeah, I'm going to have say that I don't think that will work in this case. It's what I keep pointing out to people who want SM to make better figures. SM is a software company. Poser isn't even the top earner among the SM products, as SM isn't even a computer graphics software company.

Which is exactly the problem. And SM isn't all that big a company, they pulled in less that $24 million in revenue last year. And Poser was an insignificant part of that, the whole graphics division is now doing less than $300K per quarter. So for people asking about Poser Development, you have to keep that in mind. The development team just can't be all that big.

I did promise to butt out. I think that issue needed to be raised. Later.

diogenese19348 posted at 4:10PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339132

EClark1894 posted at 1:14PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339103

diogenese19348 posted at 12:03PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339081

I'm going to address the original question, then I am going to butt out. A good way to measure where the direction of a product is going is to go over to their financial section and read what is being said in their conference calls. You might also want to check out the SEC filed financials, but the conference calls are where management discuss the future endeavors of the company. The company is Smith Micro, their stock symbol is SMSI. If you are going to be putting a significant amount of your time and talent into using a product, and are interested in what it's strategic placement in a company is, that's a good place to start.

Yeah, I'm going to have say that I don't think that will work in this case. It's what I keep pointing out to people who want SM to make better figures. SM is a software company. Poser isn't even the top earner among the SM products, as SM isn't even a computer graphics software company.

Which is exactly the problem. And SM isn't all that big a company, they pulled in less that $24 million in revenue last year. And Poser was an insignificant part of that, the whole graphics division is now doing less than $300K per quarter. So for people asking about Poser Development, you have to keep that in mind. The development team just can't be all that big.

I did promise to butt out. I think that issue needed to be raised. Later.

You can see who the development team is by looking under the Help Menu and finding About Poser. I think the current team is about six people. I don't know if that's a big team or not. Blender, for example, is done primarily by volunteers.

EClark1894 posted at 3:37AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339150

You can see who the development team is by looking under the Help Menu and finding About Poser. I think the current team is about six people. I don't know if that's a big team or not. Blender, for example, is done primarily by volunteers.

It sounds like a decent sized team to me. Lots of software developers ain't a lot more than that as far as I know and taking into account that its a limited sized market they are developing to, I would say that its fairly good, if they are working full time on Poser only that is, but they do have other graphic software packages, so they maybe they work on those as well.

3D-Mobster posted at 6:18AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339181

EClark1894 posted at 3:37AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339150

You can see who the development team is by looking under the Help Menu and finding About Poser. I think the current team is about six people. I don't know if that's a big team or not. Blender, for example, is done primarily by volunteers.

It sounds like a decent sized team to me. Lots of software developers ain't a lot more than that as far as I know and taking into account that its a limited sized market they are developing to, I would say that its fairly good, if they are working full time on Poser only that is, but they do have other graphic software packages, so they maybe they work on those as well.

Could be. Might also be why their average turnaround time is two years between major releases.

Don't forget that the "old" Poser team had 20+ years of experience with the Poser code and its inner workings, and a completely new team is working in from basically "zero" previous knowledge. The "team change" does take time and effort. Please give them some time and respect to get to know the code and its internals.

Yes, they are working one it, but yes it will take time. It is no easy task to jump into a code where almost everything is related to each other.

Best regards, Tony

It would be interesting though to know the process by which Poser or Studio for that matter each does their own software development. What takes the longest to do? Adding a new feature or squashing bugs?

EClark1894 posted at 10:05AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339209

What takes the longest to do? Adding a new feature or squashing bugs?.

Squashing bugs may affect other things, and no telling how far down that may go if you are not the one/ones who built the program from the ground up , 20 + years is a long time, so I would have to say... squashing bugs maybe.

So....did I win ? ?

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TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 7:46PM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339216

EClark1894 posted at 10:05AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339209

What takes the longest to do? Adding a new feature or squashing bugs?.

Squashing bugs may affect other things, and no telling how far down that may go if you are not the one/ones who built the program from the ground up , 20 + years is a long time, so I would have to say... squashing bugs maybe.

So....did I win ? ?

I actually think adding new features take the longest, especially now that it seems like they might be working towards better integration with blender in form of PBR, also adding new features can force them having to change some of the very basic ways things are done in Poser, as it might not be compatible with new technology that is introduced.

But yeah you won DarkerSideOfArt :D

3D-Mobster posted at 1:19PM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339226

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 7:46PM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339216

EClark1894 posted at 10:05AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339209

What takes the longest to do? Adding a new feature or squashing bugs?.

Squashing bugs may affect other things, and no telling how far down that may go if you are not the one/ones who built the program from the ground up , 20 + years is a long time, so I would have to say... squashing bugs maybe.

So....did I win ? ?

I actually think adding new features take the longest, especially now that it seems like they might be working towards better integration with blender in form of PBR, also adding new features can force them having to change some of the very basic ways things are done in Poser, as it might not be compatible with new technology that is introduced.

But yeah you won DarkerSideOfArt :D

WooHoo...go me go me

wait.what did I win.................

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I am testing multiple apps because : Testing is what I do.

What takes the longest bugs or features? That depends on what feature or bug you are talking about.

There is one bug that will take about a year (if not 2) to fix, 6 months to finetune and certainly 6 months of testing. The bug everybody knows about : The unwanted welding/unwelding of vertex groups.=> And EVEYTHING related to this bug : Like the vertex group editor, then you fly right into the hair room, the setup-room, the fitting room and so on, til the very-very basic of "save or export the obj file". This "masterbug" as it is called touches each and every part of Poser so it will take time. LOTS of time.

Fixing a bug might be difficult or easy. Depends. Are both Windows and Mac involved? How deep do we go back in the code, and what features crossed our path in finding the bug?.

Adding a feature? Tja, is it something completely new like the measurement tool. Rather easy as it is a "stand alone feature".

Adding a node is rather easy after you have figured out the math.

Adding or correcting how the setup-room behaves brings you also to the fitting and the hair room, So? Not so simple.

Speaking for Poser? I have seen bugs repaired/fixed in less then a week while others like "the masterbug" have been open for years because , well, it goes back to the very-very early years of Poser and it's initial link to Max. (Unwelded vertex groups with double vertex at all welds).

Ach, it is more or less the same thing/workflow/timetable for all apps I test.

**See the disaster of the latest Windows 1809 Oktober release. **

Best of intentions, a million beta testers, and see the result at roll-out. My conclusion for this Windows thing, (and others apps as well) is simple => Wrong or bad choice of beta testers. It is a JOB you know. And for the Companies? ? ? LISTEN to your beta testers.

Yeah, some bugs will take some time to fix, but I think you have to make a distinction between actually fixing a bug and knowing about it. Did the Poser team work on the bug you are referring to for several years or did they just have it as a known bug for that time, but chose not to fix it because it would be complicated and maybe not worth it?

I can not talk for the old or for the new Poser team and this "masterbug" is NOT a masterbug for everybody.

The end users that buy, load, pose and render content will never see this bug. So what is the issue? These users don't care and continue their creative art with outstanding results anyway.

This is a masterbug for content creators that want to deliver quality items and maintain optimal obj file quality and flexibility.

In the early days, Poser was created as a "pose" help. To get visualisation reference poses for artists that draw or paint people.

The setup room to actually "rig" obj files only came to the general public with Poser4Pro.

At the time many "hobby" content creators became vendors. And clothing became rigged and posable. Only when digging deeper into the possibilities of adding morphs, JCM's and all the rest we have now, did the double vertex issue surface. it is like a "handbrake" over what was/is possible with a properly vertex grouped and welded obj file.

So? it was, and still is, only a "masterbug" for content creators. (And most of them know their way around it by now.)

So, from being an "unkown" bug, it became a known bug, to a very important bug, to the "masterbug", to a less important bug because the workaround is out.

Load-pose-render users don't have a bug because they never run into the issue. Content creators that know their Job also knwo how to do the repair.

Hobby end users alsways have my Video4 on my youtube channel.

But having the bug is a PIA and requires the correct procedures to get around it.

See? LOL, Bugs are living things. LOL.

To go back in history.

I wrote above about the initial link between Poser and Max.(Yes, yes, I am an old timer, LOL, because we are talking middle of the 1990's here.) But, and here comes the but.....

I think, (but have to check) that BOTH apps, Poser AND Max are BOTH unable to export a properly vertex grouped and welded obj file. Poser is not the only app out there to still have this double vertex at welds issue.

tonyvilters posted at 12:34AM Thu, 08 November 2018 - #4339254

To go back in history.

I wrote above about the initial link between Poser and Max.(Yes, yes, I am an old timer, LOL, because we are talking middle of the 1990's here.) But, and here comes the but.....

I think, (but have to check) that BOTH apps, Poser AND Max are BOTH unable to export a properly vertex grouped and welded obj file. Poser is not the only app out there to still have this double vertex at welds issue.

Sounds interesting, I have never heard about a double vertex weld issues and I use Max as well and had for a long time now, can you explain or show what it would look like in a mesh or how exactly this bug would show itself? maybe its just the term Im not familiar with.

Wait is that what that is (the bug) when it looks like a single random vert is just frozen in 3D space and won't move with the rest of the part of the item,like all the post I've seen in the past of an open mouth and it seems like a single vert from the jaw was welded some how to the roof of the mouth.? Or is that another issue ?

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I briefly talk about the issue in my First video in the Poser2Blender2Poser series on youtube.

Poser2Blender2Poser The correct import and export settings

The issue about the unwelding of vertex groups at obj file save is shown here in Video4 of the series.

Poser2Blender2Poser : Why you have to delete the Poser saved obj files

@ TheDarksideOfArt

I look at and handle a lot of end users issues and most of them can be traced back to the quality of the obj file. Lost vertex, unwelded parts, you name it, I have seen it. Pockets or buttons or belts that are thrown on, welded only to God, improper clean-up after the creator changed his mind, all passed and where released over time because "it worked".

Then comes some guy that wants to create a morph, or wants to do a "refit", and the whole thing comes apart. Tja, unwelded parts don't follow and weld cracks all over the place.

Lost vertex are very common too. And they are not so easy to handle because as we all know : Once finished and rigged, one has to mantain vertex order.

The issue we are talking about here are the double vertex at all welds between the vertex groups. => See Video4: Why you have to delete the Poser saved obj files.

Poser is a very solid app. Most end users issues can be traced back to the quality of the obj files.

Best regards, Tony

tonyvilters posted at 12:48PM Thu, 08 November 2018 - #4339278

I briefly talk about the issue in my First video in the Poser2Blender2Poser series on youtube.

Poser2Blender2Poser The correct import and export settings

The issue about the unwelding of vertex groups at obj file save is shown here in Video4 of the series.

Poser2Blender2Poser : Why you have to delete the Poser saved obj files

Watch the videos, nice work on those. I haven't made any conforming cloth myself, but I did make some morphs for Victoria 4 in Zbrush some time ago, which was ok. i mean I always found it a bit overly complicated to make morphs in Poser. Which could be due to the bug you refer to with the OBJ format. However I can't help thinking that its most likely due to poor design in Poser rather than a bug.

Because you would assume that it would be possible to fairly easy copy a changes from one mesh to a character simply using the obj file. If the vertex order is kept for the mesh. So for instant lets say you have V4 and you export her as an obj file and do some morphing etc. When you are done you import her to Poser simply with the correct vertex order and as all the groups etc are already there in the original V4, it must know which vertices belongs to which group etc. and simply coping from the plain obj V4 to the real V4 with that information should be fairly easy I would assume.

arrow1 : Blender is releasing 2.8 with eevee around January .Last time there was a Poser upgrade after a Blender upgrade with cycles.

wolf359 : Go get Maya n MudBox.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Is it too far back to actually track what triggers this ?(frozen vert) It seems random out of around almost 20 standalone figures I've had it happen to me once in PP2014,but fixed it within minutes,but still bothered me to this day what made it happen out of nowhere? Im going to include a super high quality hires pic of what I mean.

I dont have images of it..lol ,but on a more serious note, if the obj is solid,was this an issue of re saving it to the library and its just a random thing and does your vids cover that? (note it wasn't welded I made the head invisible leaving the jaw visible and brushed the top of that point with the weight map brush and it went down into the jaw almost as if Poser removed the weight map on that one tiny point only which was perfect before being saved and reloaded )

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That drawing would make Leonardo da vinci flee in shame!! :D

But no its not that issue, have experience it some times but never really figured out what causes it, but I suspect it have something to do with morphs. But that a wild guess.

Im wondering if that masterpiece drawing of yours is copyrighted, because I can see it getting stolen if its not :D

3D-Mobster posted at 1:22PM Thu, 08 November 2018 - #4339328

That drawing would make Leonardo da vinci flee in shame!! :D

But no its not that issue, have experience it some times but never really figured out what causes it, but I suspect it have something to do with morphs. But that a wild guess.

Im wondering if that masterpiece drawing of yours is copyrighted, because I can see it getting stolen if its not :D

hmm! Thats my future, release,I'm watching you ?

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wolf359 : Go get Maya n MudBox.

I thought Autodesk Killed off Mudbox??

To be honest I think Maya is truly Awesome however I refuse to buy into Autodesks Monthly rental scheme.

If and when I can Afford to make a major investment in all new hardware and, retire my current pipeline completely, I think SidefX Houdini would be my application of choice.

My website

YouTube Channel

wolf359 posted at 2:39PM Thu, 08 November 2018 - #4339338

wolf359 : Go get Maya n MudBox.

I thought Autodesk Killed off Mudbox??

To be honest I think Maya is truly Awesome however I refuse to buy into Autodesks Monthly rental scheme.

If and when I can Afford to make a major investment in all new hardware and, retire my current pipeline completely, I think SidefX Houdini would be my application of choice.

Did you check on the LT version its only 245.00 a year and its supposed to be for 3D modeling and animation software built for indie game makers ? dont know how much is removed from the full version though. theres a lot of choices now to get it done at a more affordable price.

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Did you check on the LT version its only 245.00 a year and its supposed to be for 3D modeling and animation software built for indie game makers ? dont know how much is removed from the full version though. theres a lot of choices now to get it done at a more affordable price.

I am not an Indie game maker. an I am not making the CG Dragons for HBO's "game of thrones" on my old hardware. I have Maxon Cinema4D with Realflow and lightwave 2015 for VFX and an old seat of Modo and Iclone pro pipeline. and of course Daz for Characters. I prefer to pay for my software once and squeeze every bit if value out of it for many years there after My C4D is very Old because I chose to forego Maxon's Annual"Maintainance" plan.

My website

YouTube Channel

I understand perfectly ,I still have and use my softimage xsi 7,and my realflow and Maxwell render because if it isn't broken why fix it (and I didn't even pay for the nextlimits products they were given to me as a prize for a 3D contest ) but still won't upgrade them anyway until they stop working .

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We still have MudBox or zBrush n there's 3D coat ,Blender. As always best to check them out for ya self .Compare galleries n gather info on forums. Give them a test run for your self.

All the app's are going to subscriptions. Incuding Houdini bigger versions. Houdini proceuduals is not like any other CGI app. Houdini is known for there proceuduals FX . There not known for the Characters support. There's no point in taking a NASCAR to NHRA.

I Don't known Maya LT but it's probably like prime C4D.

I know lifes all about $$$ .but if your CGI pipe line suxs ,Then your in flow of $$$ will sux also. If you show up to a race track with a peace of crap car ,don't exspect to win.last place purse is always $ 000.00

Info on some app's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BT4YSOjTas

I don't know everyones goals or budgets.

Not saying anyone else should but I personaly only mess with realtime engines. it's a game thing .Blender 2.8 will be released soon with eevee .So Blender made it on my radar.

but even if you don't care about eevee. Blender tools are way better then C4D 9 or any of the older app's. 2.8 UI finaly looks worthy.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

RorrKonn posted at 2:23AM Fri, 09 November 2018 - #4339391

We still have MudBox or zBrush n there's 3D coat ,Blender. As always best to check them out for ya self .Compare galleries n gather info on forums. Give them a test run for your self.

All the app's are going to subscriptions. Incuding Houdini bigger versions. Houdini proceuduals is not like any other CGI app. Houdini is known for there proceuduals FX . There not known for the Characters support. There's no point in taking a NASCAR to NHRA.

I Don't known Maya LT but it's probably like prime C4D.

I know lifes all about $$$ .but if your CGI pipe line suxs ,Then your in flow of $$$ will sux also. If you show up to a race track with a peace of crap car ,don't exspect to win.last place purse is always $ 000.00

Info on some app's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BT4YSOjTas

I don't know everyones goals or budgets.

Not saying anyone else should but I personaly only mess with realtime engines. it's a game thing .Blender 2.8 will be released soon with eevee .So Blender made it on my radar.

but even if you don't care about eevee. Blender tools are way better then C4D 9 or any of the older app's. 2.8 UI finaly looks worthy.

Not likely, though that Blender will go to subscription. There's no point, since it's open source.

LOL , guess you forgot about Unity n Unreal

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Open source just means the source code is available. It doesn't have anything to do with licensing for the use of the code. Blender has a GPL License. Unity has a proprietary license. Blender can't go to a subscription model ever with the license it has.

diogenese19348 posted at 5:21PM Fri, 09 November 2018 - #4339425

Open source just means the source code is available. It doesn't have anything to do with licensing for the use of the code. Blender has a GPL License. Unity has a proprietary license. Blender can't go to a subscription model ever with the license it has.

LOL, Don't tell Poser being they sell us both Open source Blender and Open source Pixar.Think theres something about a Flash also.

Heres to hoping they sell us eevee to ;)

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

RorrKonn posted at 1:12AM Sat, 10 November 2018 - #4339452

diogenese19348 posted at 5:21PM Fri, 09 November 2018 - #4339425

Open source just means the source code is available. It doesn't have anything to do with licensing for the use of the code. Blender has a GPL License. Unity has a proprietary license. Blender can't go to a subscription model ever with the license it has.

LOL, Don't tell Poser being they sell us both Open source Blender and Open source Pixar.Think theres something about a Flash also.

Heres to hoping they sell us eevee to ;)

No, they sell us Physics, GoZ and a not full working cycles render engine. ?

The GPL license allows you to sell GPL'ed software, it's just that any changes you make to it have to be open source also, and have to be licensed under the GPL which means anybody can compile it for free, give it away for free, etc.

Cycles license specifically says it can be used in commercial software:

"Cycles is an physically based production renderer developed by the Blender project.

The source code is available under the Apache License v2, and can be integrated in open source and commercial software. Cycles is natively integrated in Blender, Poser, and Rhino. The Cycles4D plugin for Cinema4D and a plugin for 3ds Max are available as well." (From https://www.cycles-renderer.org/ )

-Timberwolf- posted at 1:30AM Sat, 10 November 2018 - #4339464

RorrKonn posted at 1:12AM Sat, 10 November 2018 - #4339452

diogenese19348 posted at 5:21PM Fri, 09 November 2018 - #4339425

Open source just means the source code is available. It doesn't have anything to do with licensing for the use of the code. Blender has a GPL License. Unity has a proprietary license. Blender can't go to a subscription model ever with the license it has.

LOL, Don't tell Poser being they sell us both Open source Blender and Open source Pixar.Think theres something about a Flash also.

Heres to hoping they sell us eevee to ;)

No, they sell us Physics, GoZ and a not full working cycles render engine. ?

Bullet Physics is the same that Blender and Maya use. And Both Bullet Physics and Cycles have standalone versions you could use instead.

EClark1894 posted at 2:46PM Sat, 10 November 2018 - #4338936

I don't know if DAZ "created" D-Force or not, but it's hardly an "innovative" move. Poser has had the Bullet Physics engine for several versions now. I'll concede that SM's no marketing genius, But D-Force isn't doing anything that Bullet physics can't. In fact. I believe even Maya and Blender both use Bullet Physics. As for new figures to use. Poser has them. Again, hiring a marketing genius might help. Even Reallusion sees the potential in Dusk and Dawn, the Hivewire figures. I certainly do.

D-Force is a dynamic cloth solution for Studio, I was not aware that people were using Bullet for cloth simulations in Poser. My understanding was that initially only Bullet's rigid body sim was exposed in Poser, and the soft body sim was exposed later. But I'm pretty sure Bullet wasn't integrated in an attempt to address the shortcomings of Poser's dynamic cloth but rather, in the case of rigid bodies, to allow for figures dropping items, knocking items over etc. and, in the case of the soft body solver, to simulate body mass effects such as jiggle and bounce. Either way, VWD seems to me superior to both Poser's cloth dynamics and using Bullet for cloth in Poser. Can Poser or Daz apply soft body effects to a figure's body and then sim the dynamic clothing with respect to the underlying soft body simulation?

moogal posted at 5:17PM Sat, 10 November 2018 - #4339495

EClark1894 posted at 2:46PM Sat, 10 November 2018 - #4338936

I don't know if DAZ "created" D-Force or not, but it's hardly an "innovative" move. Poser has had the Bullet Physics engine for several versions now. I'll concede that SM's no marketing genius, But D-Force isn't doing anything that Bullet physics can't. In fact. I believe even Maya and Blender both use Bullet Physics. As for new figures to use. Poser has them. Again, hiring a marketing genius might help. Even Reallusion sees the potential in Dusk and Dawn, the Hivewire figures. I certainly do.

D-Force is a dynamic cloth solution for Studio, I was not aware that people were using Bullet for cloth simulations in Poser. My understanding was that initially only Bullet's rigid body sim was exposed in Poser, and the soft body sim was exposed later. But I'm pretty sure Bullet wasn't integrated in an attempt to address the shortcomings of Poser's dynamic cloth but rather, in the case of rigid bodies, to allow for figures dropping items, knocking items over etc. and, in the case of the soft body solver, to simulate body mass effects such as jiggle and bounce. Either way, VWD seems to me superior to both Poser's cloth dynamics and using Bullet for cloth in Poser. Can Poser or Daz apply soft body effects to a figure's body and then sim the dynamic clothing with respect to the underlying soft body simulation?

DAZ Brian called D-Force, a Physics Engine. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203201/daz-3d-introduces-dforce-physics-engine

BP's has three Object types, so maybe that's where you got side tracked.

Choreographed dynamic objects is used to define stationary or animated objects in your scene that the dynamic objects will collide with. Such as a ground, tree, wall, etc.

Rigid dynamic objects are those which will interact with other objects, but which will maintain their shape when they collide with other objects in the scene.

A soft dynamic object will change its shape or appearance when other objects collide against it. These are the objects that most people think of, like jiggling breasts, bouncing bellies and cloth objects.

I've never used VWD, so I can't speak to that. I'm also still learning myself, so other than watching a webinar by Chuck Taylor and a tutorial by Renderosity's Mark Bremmler several times I can't speak with any kind of authority other than to say I like what I see and using with the Live Simulation mode is far superior to Poser's Cloth sims.

moogal posted at 8:42AM Sun, 11 November 2018 - #4339495

EClark1894 posted at 2:46PM Sat, 10 November 2018 - #4338936

I don't know if DAZ "created" D-Force or not, but it's hardly an "innovative" move. Poser has had the Bullet Physics engine for several versions now. I'll concede that SM's no marketing genius, But D-Force isn't doing anything that Bullet physics can't. In fact. I believe even Maya and Blender both use Bullet Physics. As for new figures to use. Poser has them. Again, hiring a marketing genius might help. Even Reallusion sees the potential in Dusk and Dawn, the Hivewire figures. I certainly do.

D-Force is a dynamic cloth solution for Studio

No, D-force is a physics solution; the first implementation for it was cloth simulation.

EClark1894 posted at 3:27PM Sun, 11 November 2018 - #4339502

DAZ Brian called D-Force, a Physics Engine. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/203201/daz-3d-introduces-dforce-physics-engine

BP's has three Object types, so maybe that's where you got side tracked.

Choreographed dynamic objects is used to define stationary or animated objects in your scene that the dynamic objects will collide with. Such as a ground, tree, wall, etc.

Rigid dynamic objects are those which will interact with other objects, but which will maintain their shape when they collide with other objects in the scene.

A soft dynamic object will change its shape or appearance when other objects collide against it. These are the objects that most people think of, like jiggling breasts, bouncing bellies and cloth objects.

I've never used VWD, so I can't speak to that. I'm also still learning myself, so other than watching a webinar by Chuck Taylor and a tutorial by Renderosity's Mark Bremmler several times I can't speak with any kind of authority other than to say I like what I see and using with the Live Simulation mode is far superior to Poser's Cloth sims.

OK, so you do acknowledge it might be an improvement over Poser's offering. On re-read I see what you likely mean by it not being innovative, as it is an obvious feature whether or not Poser has a similar functionality. "Innovative" is kind of a loaded term in that it can mean different things to different people. For some people it means introducing a technology or functionality that does not exist elesewhere, for others it can just mean improving on an ubiquitous tech or function in a clever and elegant way. E.g. Puppeteer is an innovative improvement over posedots because of the way the strength of the posedot is affected by the path drawn. I inquired some time ago about using VWD with the soft-body sim and was informed it would not work as the cloth sim could not access the results of the bullet sim. Presumably it would lead to the parts affected by the soft body sim popping out of the clothing as the sims would be working independently. I feel that the various Poser devs did do a good job of adding these features over the years, but did not implement them in the most user-friendly ways... It's strange to me, how hard it is to say convert a pose to a figure with different rigging, or convert a body texture from a figure to one with different mapping. I can think of ways to do both that would be more "innovative" than what has currently been implemented.

The overwhelming majority of the poser & Daz userbase are still render makers.The rigid body bullet physics ,introduced in poser pro 2014 are wasted on still renders IMHO.

Posers bullet physics is a perfect example of Smith micro being clueless about this market segment.

We few poser animators back then already had this as an option. I was doing rigid body collision animations,in poser, back in the poser 6 days with Paul Kinnane's $49 USD "poser physics" plugin that used Python.

I was easily mixing Rigid body, Cloth dynamics and Character ragdoll in the same simulations.

See this 9 Year OLD video from back then, that I recently moved over from my vimeo page to youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFVVVUjlkQY

On the matter of soft bodies ...again ..Wasted on still render makers who only need them to create stills of tight clothing pressing into the soft flesh. Something that could like be Faked with the poser morph Brush I would imagine.

Someone recently introduced a ,formerly Carrara only, plugin for Daz studio called "fluidos"

It is like having nextlimits Realflow animated fluid sims right in the Daz studio viewport.

The very first question asked was :

How do we use this for stills??

At least Daz has the wisdom to introduce the cloth simulation

Aspect of their "Dforce" engine,as this gave the PA's something new to sell in the form of pre weight mapped "Dforce ready" hybrid dynamic clothing.... to "drape" for stills.

My website

YouTube Channel

Would be nice if every app called the same tools by the same name.C4D calls subdivide hyperNURBS ,call it what you want it's SubD's to me .

Male_M3dia If it walks like a duck n quacks like a duck ... it's still dynamic cloth no matter what its called.

wolf359 cool vid ,Alt to try that in Blender ,it would be awesome.

I wish Renderosity would upgrade there spell checker.

============================================================

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Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

wolf359 posted at 7:25PM Sun, 11 November 2018 - #4339552

The overwhelming majority of the poser & Daz userbase are still render makers.The rigid body bullet physics ,introduced in poser pro 2014 are wasted on still renders IMHO.

Posers bullet physics is a perfect example of Smith micro being clueless about this market segment.

We few poser animators back then already had this as an option. I was doing rigid body collision animations,in poser, back in the poser 6 days with Paul Kinnane's $49 USD "poser physics" plugin that used Python.

I was easily mixing Rigid body, Cloth dynamics and Character ragdoll in the same simulations.

See this 9 Year OLD video from back then, that I recently moved over from my vimeo page to youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFVVVUjlkQY

On the matter of soft bodies ...again ..Wasted on still render makers who only need them to create stills of tight clothing pressing into the soft flesh. Something that could like be Faked with the poser morph Brush I would imagine.

Someone recently introduced a ,formerly Carrara only, plugin for Daz studio called "fluidos"

It is like having nextlimits Realflow animated fluid sims right in the Daz studio viewport.

The very first question asked was :

How do we use this for stills??

At least Daz has the wisdom to introduce the cloth simulation

Aspect of their "Dforce" engine,as this gave the PA's something new to sell in the form of pre weight mapped "Dforce ready" hybrid dynamic clothing.... to "drape" for stills.

I can't refute much of what you're saying Wolf. You've got a point... up to a point. Remember that Poser was basically conceived as a "posing" tool. And posing is a natural aspect of still life, but not the only one. Over time, Poser has added other layers of realism to the world of still life renders. I admit, Poser caught my eye for it's animation tools, but I was literally only thinking of using it was a quick and easy way to tell stories. My Android webcomics attest to that. Of course, from what I knew about animation back then to what I know now, I saw animation as something that would take enormous amounts of time. I still don't do much animation. Cloth sims, bullet physics, and fluid sims is my idea of dipping my toes in to get my feet wet.

But I also have to agree with you that Poser's marketing sucks. So if the users don't know what Poser can do, that's not the user's fault... that's Poser's.

Didn't rooster teeth used Poser back in the day to start RWBY. Back in the Poser 6 or 8 days.They may still be using Poser.

I know Veggie Tales was started in TrueSpace ,Think version 5.Then they went to LW ,Don't know about now.

Have you seen blenders sintel video

I swear you could make blue vs red in any 3Dapp ,even Poser 3

We have alot of 2018 tools to make what ever we want.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

RorrKonn posted at 11:12AM Mon, 12 November 2018 - #4339554

Male_M3dia If it walks like a duck n quacks like a duck ... it's still dynamic cloth no matter what its called.

Again, if you paid attention, I said the first implementation of this physics engine was dynamic cloth, meaning that's not the only thing it can do, it's the only thing you can see right now.

RorrKonn posted at 4:22PM Mon, 12 November 2018 - #4339554

Would be nice if every app called the same tools by the same name.C4D calls subdivide hyperNURBS ,call it what you want it's SubD's to me .

C4D changed from "HyperNurbs" to the more common "Subdivision Surfaces" a couple of releases ago!

regards
prixat

RorrKonn posted at 2:27PM Mon, 12 November 2018 - #4339554

Would be nice if every app called the same tools by the same name.C4D calls subdivide hyperNURBS ,call it what you want it's SubD's to me .

Male_M3dia If it walks like a duck n quacks like a duck ... it's still dynamic cloth no matter what its called.

There's actually a good reason for doing this. Let's say that software "A" implements Catmull-Clark subdivision and calls it "SubD". You are the developer (or on the team) of software "B" and have decided to implement Doo–Sabin subdivision. Do you call it SubD also, as it's the closest functional equivalent in your program to the tool in software "A"? Or do you call it something slightly (or even very) different, say "ObjSmooth" because the tool returns a discernibly different result? Give the tool the same name and you will be expected to answer why the resultant mesh does not look the same as the mesh returned by another software.

In the simplest sense, dynamic cloth is a non-rigid mesh that attempts to cover an underlying mesh as it is posed. Dynamic cloth can be simulated by a robust soft-body solver, and/or by attempting to maintain the distance between the cloth and underlying meshes (possibly then smoothing/relaxing the result). That does not mean every physics sim capable of simulating dynamic cloth is a cloth solver. Beyond just covering the underlying mesh, a cloth simulation should both model friction against the underlying mesh and also incorporate a response to wind/gravity for simulating skirts/dresses, capes, coattails etc. More importantly, to be called a cloth solution, the implementation needs to model cloth-specific traits like sheer resistance, fold resistance, elasticity, etc. These parameters are what allow the simulation to return different results that approximate silk, denim, spandex, etc. IMHO, for the majority of users clothing figures, especially in game development, these parameters can be overkill. 90% of the time we just want the clothing to move with and always cover the underlying figure(s). Folds and wrinkles for example can be modeled into the mesh (or painted into the texture and/or bump maps) and will be persistent as the clothing inherits the underlying mesh's pose. It seems logical to assume that we'd all use a full featured cloth solver whenever possible, that simplified solutions are vestiges of when more accurate simulations required too much RAM and too many CPU cycles to use exclusively. But there are other reasons why an accurate solution might not be desired. If your character wears a hood, you may not want the hood blowing off your figure's head because the wind caught it a certain way. And you probably don't not want Lara Croft's skirt doing the ol' Marilyn Monroe when she steps into one of those subterranean updrafts, either. This is why I have long argued for a hybrid conforming/dynamic solution that is specifically focused on covering the underlying figure as that is what most people want from clothing above all else. But if you want to animate your character changing/swapping clothing, or to be able to heap their clothing in a pile on the floor, you'll likely want a more full-featured cloth-specific simulation.

There's a huge difference between the needs of the pin-up artist working with long glamorous dresses and blouses with long flowing sleeves, and the sci-fi animator/game developer whose cast of characters are mostly wearing form-fitting pants, undershirts, and vests.

This is why I have long argued for a hybrid conforming/dynamic >solution that is specifically focused on covering the underlying >figure as that is what most people want from clothing above all >else

Technically Daz "Dforce " is a hybrid system.

The Cloth physics of Iclone are a Hybrid system as well allowing you to decide how much the brim of a sun hat will move in the wind without blowing off the entire hat from the head

All in realtime viewport playback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvOb_Nhi8NI

My website

YouTube Channel

The future of are CGI universe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlgLxSLsYWQ

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

wolf359 posted at 7:16PM Mon, 12 November 2018 - #4339644

This is why I have long argued for a hybrid conforming/dynamic >solution that is specifically focused on covering the underlying >figure as that is what most people want from clothing above all >else

Technically Daz "Dforce " is a hybrid system.

The Cloth physics of Iclone are a Hybrid system as well allowing you to decide how much the brim of a sun hat will move in the wind without blowing off the entire hat from the head

All in realtime viewport playback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvOb_Nhi8NI

You can do the same thing in Bullet Physics. Maybe it's the way you have to set up the simulation.

My awesome garage cycles render .LMAO ,Well it's what I've learned on youtube so far.

Male_M3dia I was paying attention.Physics have been around a long time.

If what to use Physics in a still "like a water fall" just save a frame.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

RorrKonn posted at 6:57PM Tue, 13 November 2018 - #4339728

Male_M3dia I was paying attention.Physics have been around a long time.

That's good. I just want to make sure you're not spreading misinformation, because it is a physics engine.. that's a fact. Opinions should not be passed around as fact just because someone feels some type of way about a product.

But again we're getting away from the main topic.

Male_M3dia posted at 10:28PM Tue, 13 November 2018 - #4339745

RorrKonn posted at 6:57PM Tue, 13 November 2018 - #4339728

Male_M3dia I was paying attention.Physics have been around a long time.

That's good. I just want to make sure you're not spreading misinformation, because it is a physics engine.. that's a fact. Opinions should not be passed around as fact just because someone feels some type of way about a product.

But again we're getting away from the main topic.

No, we're not. The OP asked if Poser users are being left behind. To fairly answer that question invites a comparison of similar features in different software packages. Now, I don't know who developed Studio's D-Force engine, but Poser uses Bullet Physics. The biggest difference between the two I can see is that BP is primarily a Game Physics engine. That's why Blender, Maya, and yeah even Poser, I suppose, initially added it. D-Force, at least as far as I know, for the moment, appears to be using theirs primarily for Cloth simulations. So I'd say we're right on topic.

2001 ? LW7 we called it dynamic cloths I think. If you youtube dynamic cloths you get different apps .I guess dynamic cloths is a general term like .obj . I would think you would have to have a physics engine to run dynamic cloths in any app. Like you need a 3D app for .obj's. I've never been Poser vs DAZ .I've always been Poser and DAZ But Poser n DAZ is nothing but plugins to me so I'm sure not going to get riled up over plugs.I'll use any CGI software I can get my hands on. CGI is Magic to me.

While where waiting on the new Poser might as well make some new meshes for the new Poser and all the other app's while where at it. Learn all we can about CGI.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

RorrKonn posted at 8:30AM Wed, 14 November 2018 - #4339391

Houdini is known for there proceuduals FX . There not known for the Characters support.

Really ? Since when?

Houdini supports more types of rigging than most other 3D apps put together. Auto rigging that actually works for biped and quadrapeds. Export thru Houdini Engine to games, other 3d apps, etc. Muscle rigging, Implicit rigging,dual quaternion, bone deform,etc, should I go on?

Saying Houdini doesn't support characters is a tad odd. Houdini can do basically every type of rigging out there.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

D-Force, at least as far as I know, for the moment, appears to be

using theirs primarily for Cloth simulations. So I'd say we're right

on topic.

Daz would have been foolish to introduce rigid body dynamics first.

Pre weight mapped "Dforce ready" hybrid conformers help store sales.

People knocking down bowling pins with poser bullet physics do not provide very many opportunities for poser content devs.

BTW, I have poser pro 2014, and it does not do the same thing as the Iclone's realtime hybrid conformer cloth physics demonstrated in the video I posted.

My website

YouTube Channel

shvrdavid posted at 1:27PM Wed, 14 November 2018 - #4339802

RorrKonn posted at 8:30AM Wed, 14 November 2018 - #4339391

Houdini is known for there proceuduals FX . There not known for the Characters support.

Really ? Since when?

Houdini supports more types of rigging than most other 3D apps put together. Auto rigging that actually works for biped and quadrapeds. Export thru Houdini Engine to games, other 3d apps, etc. Muscle rigging, Implicit rigging,dual quaternion, bone deform,etc, should I go on?

Saying Houdini doesn't support characters is a tad odd. Houdini can do basically every type of rigging out there.

I did not say Houdini doesn't support characters. "I said Houdini is known for there proceuduals FX . There not known for there Character support."

Was in the zbrush paragraph but it aplies to every thing "Compare galleries n gather info on forums. Give them a test run for your self."

"Houdini proceuduals is not like any other CGI app."

another info video on CGI app's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RQ7lxph72I&t=0s&list=PL4gh8o-Mzp4fd6juut4e9EyDtQQvy9Icf&index=10

I've always suggest get all the cgi app's. But if that's not for u ,I always suggest follow the studios. Stuidios have been useing Maya for character animation.But who knows maybe tomorrow there use The new Poser,Blender,Houdini.

The only known about CGI ,tomorrow ,there will be big changes.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

Both Bullet Physics and Cycles have standalone versions you could use instead.

Good luck finding that,unless you compile it yourself ,I haven't found recent ones yet ? Any links to any working standalone versions of either ? (Actually just the standalone cycles one don't really care for the bullet one ,Playing around with nvidia' physx at the moment )

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

HP Zbook 17 G6, intel Xeon 64 GB of ram 1 TB SSD, Quadro RTX 5000

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems odd that someone would say that Houdini is not known for character support. Every version from 10 up has added tons of character tools, and 17 is getting even more of them.

https://youtu.be/MIcUW9QFMLE

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

shvrdavid posted at 12:37AM Fri, 16 November 2018 - #4339962

Seems odd that someone would say that Houdini is not known for character support. Every version from 10 up has added tons of character tools, and 17 is getting even more of them.

https://youtu.be/MIcUW9QFMLE

Oh no I didn't mean Houdini didn't support characters .SideFX seem to be trying realy hard to catch up to the CGI app's that's been around a lot longer then them.

I meant Houdini is not known for character support buy the movie studios. Houdini FX tools are known from the movie studios. Maya's characters tools are known from the movie studios.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

wolf359 posted at 7:39AM Fri, 16 November 2018 - #4339808

D-Force, at least as far as I know, for the moment, appears to be

using theirs primarily for Cloth simulations. So I'd say we're right

on topic.

Daz would have been foolish to introduce rigid body dynamics first.

Pre weight mapped "Dforce ready" hybrid conformers help store sales.

People knocking down bowling pins with poser bullet physics do not provide very many opportunities for poser content devs.

BTW, I have poser pro 2014, and it does not do the same thing as the Iclone's realtime hybrid conformer cloth physics demonstrated in the video I posted.

Can you be more clear? What does it not do that Iclone does? Because all I saw in the video were things that appeared to be blowing up and rag dolls flying around.

EClark1894 posted at 7:33PM Fri, 16 November 2018 - #4339976

wolf359 posted at 7:39AM Fri, 16 November 2018 - #4339808

D-Force, at least as far as I know, for the moment, appears to be

using theirs primarily for Cloth simulations. So I'd say we're right

on topic.

Daz would have been foolish to introduce rigid body dynamics first.

Pre weight mapped "Dforce ready" hybrid conformers help store sales.

People knocking down bowling pins with poser bullet physics do not provide very many opportunities for poser content devs.

BTW, I have poser pro 2014, and it does not do the same thing as the Iclone's realtime hybrid conformer cloth physics demonstrated in the video I posted.

Can you be more clear? What does it not do that Iclone does? Because all I saw in the video were things that appeared to be blowing up and rag dolls flying around.

If you want to play with some killer physics, Blender :) The new 2020 Poser alt to be Poser intergraded into Blender plug.

============================================================

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance

EClark1894 posted at 5:38AM Sat, 17 November 2018 - #4339976

wolf359 posted at 7:39AM Fri, 16 November 2018 - #4339808

D-Force, at least as far as I know, for the moment, appears to be

using theirs primarily for Cloth simulations. So I'd say we're right

on topic.

Daz would have been foolish to introduce rigid body dynamics first.

Pre weight mapped "Dforce ready" hybrid conformers help store sales.

People knocking down bowling pins with poser bullet physics do not provide very many opportunities for poser content devs.

BTW, I have poser pro 2014, and it does not do the same thing as the Iclone's realtime hybrid conformer cloth physics demonstrated in the video I posted.

Can you be more clear? What does it not do that Iclone does? Because all I saw in the video were things that appeared to be blowing up and rag dolls flying around.

@Eclarke I mean this video from my other post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvOb_Nhi8NI

Can poser bullet physics do this with cloth & wind in realtime? If so.. please post a link to an example.

My website

YouTube Channel

New 2020 Poser?? Did I miss an update???

No you did not miss anything. As stated in the official SM Forum => The Poser team is working on a next maintenance update for Poser11 / PoserPro11 rightfully concentrating on fixing many reported and some internal unreported bugs.

Best regards and have a nice W-End all, Tony

wolf359 posted at 8:31AM Sat, 17 November 2018 - #4340068

EClark1894 posted at 5:38AM Sat, 17 November 2018 - #4339976

wolf359 posted at 7:39AM Fri, 16 November 2018 - #4339808

D-Force, at least as far as I know, for the moment, appears to be

using theirs primarily for Cloth simulations. So I'd say we're right

on topic.

Daz would have been foolish to introduce rigid body dynamics first.

Pre weight mapped "Dforce ready" hybrid conformers help store sales.

People knocking down bowling pins with poser bullet physics do not provide very many opportunities for poser content devs.

BTW, I have poser pro 2014, and it does not do the same thing as the Iclone's realtime hybrid conformer cloth physics demonstrated in the video I posted.

Can you be more clear? What does it not do that Iclone does? Because all I saw in the video were things that appeared to be blowing up and rag dolls flying around.

@Eclarke I mean this video from my other post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvOb_Nhi8NI

Can poser bullet physics do this with cloth & wind in realtime? If so.. please post a link to an example.

I believe so, BUT I could not find a video directly on point. For sure you can use wind and dynamics in the Cloth room. I can only say I THINK you can use wind force and Bullet Physics together during a live simulation at this point. At this time, this was the closest thing I could find to what you're asking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN-G4yxPOXs&t=55s

Okay, looks like I spoke to soon. I knew I had seen this one before, but couldn't remember which one it was. Here's your video.

I meant Houdini is not known for character support buy the movie studios.

No offense, but your clueless. Look up studios like RISE, etc. They use Houdini for basically everything.

I could list many more studios that use Houdini exclusively for their pipeline. But it is very obvious that you know far more about it.......

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

shvrdavid posted at 7:56PM Fri, 23 November 2018 - #4340510

I meant Houdini is not known for character support buy the movie studios.

No offense, but your clueless. Look up studios like RISE, etc. They use Houdini for basically everything.

I could list many more studios that use Houdini exclusively for their pipeline. But it is very obvious that you know far more about it.......

Well appeartly I'm outdated .You know CGI ,Blink and ya 10 years behind.

Happy Thanks giving n Merry xMas.

Dear Santa A new spell checker for xmas would be killer :)

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Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Any New Poser