I'm hopeful, but also disappointed. The kill switch has been a real hassle under Smith Micro. I really thought Rendo would get rid of it. I can still run my older versions of Poser, those that are the pre-Smith Micro debacle.

I don't see what purpose a kill switch serves in a community like this, especially when competing against DAZ which is free. I'm not completely sorry I updated to Game Developer from Poser Pro 2014, but logging on to see the sudden planned death message unless I contort to keep it alive has been a large negative. I paid almost $200 ($189?) to buy 11.1 as an early adopter and I refuse to load it.

I think I would want a permanent lease on the machine before I upgrade to 11.2. I generally have not gone back to load old software on new machines, unless the old software had some features that were discontinued in newer versions, so the permanent lease on the machine would probably be an acceptable compromise.

The only way I would accept a kill switch is (a) if there were no other software alternative and I needed it professionally [think adobe] or if it were a "lease to buy", which means I couldn't afford to buy it outright, but once I did I'd be free of the kill switch from then on.

I'm thinking of switching to DAZ if my 'permanent license' on Game Developer becomes not so permanent.

For the moment my physical shipment of 11.1 will have to stay in its DVD case.

Hmm, just wondering. Aside from the non-kill switch thingie, what would Studio offer you that you can't get from Poser? I ask because if the kill switch were the only thing, why are you spending money on Poser anyway?

Actually if you read the System Requirements when you buy Poser at posersoftware.com it states clearly that

• Product requires your choice of online or offline activation.

this would make a customer think that he can work offline ... and my personal meaning is that it is misleading a customer and a edge-walk on Fraud I could not find any other statements or Eula about the usage of the new Poser

Quote Sell Page .....

Poser Pro 11

Price: $ 199.00 Poser Pro 11 is the complete solution for creating art and animation with 3D characters. Includes over 5 GB of human and animal figures and 3D elements. Render scenes into photorealistic images and video for web, print, and film projects. As a standalone character animation system, or as a component in your production pipeline, Poser Pro 11 is the most efficient way for content creation professionals and production teams to add pre-rigged, fully-textured, posable and animation ready 3D characters in any project.

System Requirements

System requirements for Poser installation are as follows:

Windows

• Windows 7, 8.1, or 10 (64-bit OS required for installation)

• 1.3 GHz Pentium 4 or newer, Athlon 64 or newer (1.65 GHz or faster recommended)

• 1 GB system RAM (4 GB or more recommended)

• OpenGL enabled graphics card or chipset recommended (recent nVIDIA GeForce and ATI Radeon required for advanced real-time preview features)

• 24-bit color display, 1440 x 900 minimum resolution

• 3 GB free hard disk space (6 GB recommended)

• DVD-ROM drive (physical product only)

• Windows® Internet Explorer® 9 or newer

• Product requires your choice of online or offline activation.

The following requirements are for Poser Pro only features:

• CUDA enabled device required for hardware accelerated final rendering (2 GB RAM minimum, Compute Capability 2.0 minimum)

Mac

• Mac OS X 10.9, 10.10 or 10.11

• 2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor (64-bit CPU required)

• 1 GB system RAM (4 GB or more recommended)

• OpenGL enabled graphics card or chipset recommended (recent nVIDIA GeForce and ATI Radeon required for advanced real-time preview features)

• 24-bit color display, 1440 x 900 minimum resolution

• 3 GB free hard disk space (6 GB recommended)

• DVD-ROM drive (physical product only)

• Product requires your choice of online or offline activation.

The following requirements are for Poser Pro only features:

• CUDA enabled device required for hardware accelerated final rendering (2 GB RAM minimum, Compute Capability 2.0 minimum)

$349.99 USD 40% OFF Price: $199.00 USD.

If you are member of Renderosity please click the following button:

Well, to be honest, it doesn't explicitly say you can work offline. Just that you can activate it on OR offline, which, I think you can. So, no, I don't see any misleading information.

It actually does as if Poser is being disabled while being offline then the term Offline activation would not be true , else you could reactivate offline ( Or Not ? ) so let it expire , or have a shot by removing your licence and try to reactivate offline LOL I think that it will not happen!

actually it should state that Poser needs to be periodically connected Online else the licence would expire, this would be serious business !

Smith micro did not have to state that it needs a Internet connection! As it never would of been deactivated if the user was not connected or had it fire-walled.

this is how it should be explained and how Smith Micro is handling licences to make sure to avoid any conflicts !!!

You have a choice between online and offline activation. You will have a seven-day grace period before activation becomes mandatory.

If you perform an online activation, Moho will require an activation refresh every 45 days. If you’re connected to the internet, this refresh will be done automatically. If you’re not connected to the internet at the refresh point, you will have a seven-day grace period before the refresh becomes mandatory. If you choose to do an offline (“manual”) activation, Moho will require an activation refresh every 180 days and you will have a seven-day grace period to perform this manual refresh.

During any seven-day grace period, you will only be able to use the Moho Debut feature set. Moho single-seat license has a 'like a book' policy. If you purchase a single-seat license, Moho can be installed and activated on up to three devices or OS installations, but only one person can use the software at one time. If you wish to purchase a multi-seat license, please visit our website for volume pricing.

To ensure you are not blocked from installing and activating Moho on your computer after re-installing your OS or buying a new computer – please make sure to deactivate the application from within Moho via Help > Deactivate License.

this would answer many questions also there would be a grace Period the user is warned 7 day's before that he will need to connect for a check !!!

see also the differences between Manual and connected Activation , in the case of Bondware it does not seem to have a Offline activation at all !!! this sample shows that it also can be reactivated offline after the Period of 180 day's

so where the hell are the correct conditions of Bondware since they took over the Licence from Smith Micro ... I have to assume that the rules remained the same as there has not been any Updates on them.

gate posted at 4:41PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367477

Smith micro did not have to state that it needs a Internet connection! As it never would of been deactivated if the user was not connected or had it fire-walled.

Not true. If you didn't get a permanent license, Poser would shut down permanently if it couldn't communicate with the server. PP2014GD and Poser 11.

This hasn't changed from SM - only the duration between "phone home" sessions has changed.

Glitterati3D posted at 10:48PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367480

gate posted at 4:41PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367477

Smith micro did not have to state that it needs a Internet connection! As it never would of been deactivated if the user was not connected or had it fire-walled.

Not true. If you didn't get a permanent license, Poser would shut down permanently if it couldn't communicate with the server. PP2014GD and Poser 11.

This hasn't changed from SM - only the duration between "phone home" sessions has changed.

Well then it sure is strange that I use a firewalled and blocked Poser 11.1 since the beginning without that I made a Permanent Licence as my Poser never connected to the servers after activation .... ( Must be a Glitch )

Still the Info given is Miss-leading and does not state anywhere the conditions about having to be connected or do you think that a customer first goes to these forums to be able to check that it needs Periodic activation else Poser goes Puff ???

gate posted at 5:09PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367477

It actually does as if Poser is being disabled while being offline then the term Offline activation would not be true , else you could reactivate offline ( Or Not ? ) so let it expire, or have a shot by removing your licence and try to reactivate offline LOL I think that it will not happen!

You're reading something into it that isn't there. Yes, you can work with Poser offline, but you need to periodically connect to the internet to keep the activation going. And if you decide not to connect to the internet and let it expire, well then, that's YOUR choice.

gate posted at 5:58PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367482

Glitterati3D posted at 10:48PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367480

gate posted at 4:41PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367477

Smith micro did not have to state that it needs a Internet connection! As it never would of been deactivated if the user was not connected or had it fire-walled.

Not true. If you didn't get a permanent license, Poser would shut down permanently if it couldn't communicate with the server. PP2014GD and Poser 11.

This hasn't changed from SM - only the duration between "phone home" sessions has changed.

Well then it sure is strange that I use a firewalled and blocked Poser 11.1 since the beginning without that I made a Permanent Licence as my Poser never connected to the servers after activation .... ( Must be a Glitch )

Still the Info given is Miss-leading and does not state anywhere the conditions about having to be connected or do you think that a customer first goes to these forums to be able to check that it needs Periodic activation else Poser goes Puff ???

I say again, nothing has changed except the duration of the phone home cycle.

Your saying otherwise does not make it so.

I got a permanent license, at the encouragement of SM, because I lived in an RV for a while traveling and did not have a reliable internet connection. They told me it would eventually become unusable unless I did so.

And now how would a customer Know ? by buying the software and then suddenly having a locked Poser ? well if just having a project and will have to figure out what is going on will sure not make happy at all , that user like many will have to submit a ticket and then he will be confronted with non written facts. this seems to be a contract that the seller of the software can just Interpreter the way he feels ( Like ... Oh Well we shut em down and then they have to buy a new Licence as it was not written anywhere )

Do you really think that with such conditions a School or a little enterprise would start off... and also make further Investments by buying Model expansions ? Would You ?

SM gave clear and gives clear information about the software but it seems that Bondware does not need to do so I mean it is not SM that states that Poser can be activated Offline it is Bondware ! Is it True or is it not True that it can be activated Offline?

I think a reasonable person would think it requires online activation, that is fine. Most programs require some type of basic registration. I also think a reasonable person, unless otherwise informed that I need to be online from time to time, would believe that it would work fine offline. Forever.

I do not remember being informed that I needed an internet connection for continued use of Poser. Even if it's every once in a while, then I should be informed. Were any of you informed of this requirement?

Moreover, the basic question I asked a while ago still hasn't been answered.

Why do we need to phone home at all, after the initial registration?

Don't you think that it would be much easier if Bondware would write the system requirements correctly ? by letting customers know how long the Periods are, what options there would be and if only Online then state it that way ect. actually a very simple thing , and it would save them allot of tickets and upset customers.

Or are you really the meaning that there is no need at all to give any Information about what you Purchase ? A customer is also protected in good Faith about what is sold and what the merchant told him about the product.

quietrob posted at 7:18PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367494

I do not remember being informed that I needed an internet connection for continued use of Poser. Even if it's every once in a while, then I should be informed. Were any of you informed of this requirement?

Moreover, the basic question I asked a while ago still hasn't been answered.

Why do we need to phone home at all, after the initial registration?

We were informed that the phone home requirement was part of PP2014GD and Poser 11 by SM. Now, the PP2014GD requirement was not advised up front by them. It was only made public when copies of the software got bricked on offline computers. It was only then that SM owned up to the phone home requirement.

But it was a part of the system requirements list in all copies of Poser 11 on release.

Your last question has to be addressed to Bondware. I can't answer it and quite frankly, won't defend it.

I am just saying we knew going in...........

Glitterati3D posted at 5:16PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367496

quietrob posted at 7:18PM Thu, 17 October 2019 - #4367494

Why do we need to phone home at all, after the initial registration?

We were informed that the phone home requirement was part of PP2014GD and Poser 11 by SM. Now, the PP2014GD requirement was not advised up front by them. It was only made public when copies of the software got bricked on offline computers. It was only then that SM owned up to the phone home requirement.

But it was a part of the system requirements list in all copies of Poser 11 on release.

Your last question has to be addressed to Bondware. I can't answer it and quite frankly, won't defend it.

I am just saying we knew going in...........

There is a chance it was in some documentation. I am tempted to say fine print but really I just wanted to get into Poser 11. Who read's that stuff? Even back in the day PP2014GD all act shocked that their software was being forced to call headquarters.

Anyway, I'll check the manual. I am sure you are right, Gliteratti, I didn't know but I suppose I should've.

Okay. Let's move forward. I have a friend who goes without an internet connection for MONTHS at a time. I may be without a connection as well. I think the next update should include, 1) Validate S/N. 2) Remove Check in or 3) Make the license permanent for those with Validated S/N's. Bondware! Can you hear me now?

Given that an awful lot of people have queried what has been one of SM's most detested Poser features which is not only being perpetuated by Bondware but has also been increased in frequency should answer your question. Yes! They probably can hear you and no, they are not listening. Had they been doing so we would not have needed this latest thread https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938482 which simply repeats what has already common knowledge, instead of answering with openess and honesty about their intentions regarding this license debacle. Instead, we are left with speculation from other members (with all due respect to them) who, at the end of the day, are not privy to the inner workings of Bondwares corporate strategy. I must admit when Bondware announced their acquisition of Poser I saw it as a positive step in reviving the fortunes of my favourite 3D program. Now, I'm very much afraid, it's more along the lines of, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" closely followed with a healthy dose of, "I'll believe it when I see it!". Perhaps Bondware should also bear in mind while planning the next version (if any) that those people they are alienating now with their blanket silence are the very same people they will be expecting to buy it!

Mythocentric posted at 10:02AM Fri, 25 October 2019 - #4368240

Given that an awful lot of people have queried what has been one of SM's most detested Poser features which is not only being perpetuated by Bondware but has also been increased in frequency should answer your question. Yes! They probably can hear you and no, they are not listening. Had they been doing so we would not have needed this latest thread https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938482 which simply repeats what has already common knowledge, instead of answering with openess and honesty about their intentions regarding this license debacle. Instead, we are left with speculation from other members (with all due respect to them) who, at the end of the day, are not privy to the inner workings of Bondwares corporate strategy. I must admit when Bondware announced their acquisition of Poser I saw it as a positive step in reviving the fortunes of my favourite 3D program. Now, I'm very much afraid, it's more along the lines of, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" closely followed with a healthy dose of, "I'll believe it when I see it!". Perhaps Bondware should also bear in mind while planning the next version (if any) that those people they are alienating now with their blanket silence are the very same people they will be expecting to buy it!

I haven't noticed any blanket silence from Bondware.

Surprise, surprise! A response from EClark1894. Perhaps then, in your infinite wisdom, you would like to direct us to the relevant posts in which Jenn Blake, or indeed, anyone from Bondware has addressed the many queries from users about not only the continuation of SM's detested 'phone-home' but has, in fact, increased the frequency to every nine days or so. I was going to follow that with, I await your reply with bated breath but I won't. What I will say is that this is Renderosity which has a much larger membership than Hivewire where this sort of snide remark (as usual never backed up by any evidence to the contrary) from you perhaps has more effect. In fact, that's why I blocked you over at Hivewire (and now, here!). As others have said elsewhere, and with which I agree (In a thread incidentally which you started https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938932) Yes, you do supply some very useful information which is to be applauded. Unfortunately, you also have a tendency to let your ego lead you into believing that yours is the only opinion that counts. That has also been pointed out by other people elsewhere so please accept the fact that yours is just one of many opinions and try and refrain from making silly little remarks without at least trying to back them up with facts. That just makes you a troll.

I would point out to everyone that I have the greatest respect for the forum at Hivewire and Hivewire in particular. Chris and Lisa do a great job over there and I would advise anyone interested to visit

Whoa, now, do we have to turn all threads into whose...whatever it is better, please? Can we just all talk about, I don't know, the hope that after four months of ownership Bondware will now have time to address all issues in a comprehensive article/post so communication is to the satisfaction of all of those who measure such things with the immediate need of our age?

slinks back to her renders

Mythocentric posted at 3:00AM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368339

Surprise, surprise! A response from EClark1894. Perhaps then, in your infinite wisdom, you would like to direct us to the relevant posts in which Jenn Blake, or indeed, anyone from Bondware has addressed the many queries from users about not only the continuation of SM's detested 'phone-home' but has, in fact, increased the frequency to every nine days or so. I was going to follow that with, I await your reply with bated breath but I won't. What I will say is that this is Renderosity which has a much larger membership than Hivewire where this sort of snide remark (as usual never backed up by any evidence to the contrary) from you perhaps has more effect. In fact, that's why I blocked you over at Hivewire (and now, here!). As others have said elsewhere, and with which I agree (In a thread incidentally which you started https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938932) Yes, you do supply some very useful information which is to be applauded. Unfortunately, you also have a tendency to let your ego lead you into believing that yours is the only opinion that counts. That has also been pointed out by other people elsewhere so please accept the fact that yours is just one of many opinions and try and refrain from making silly little remarks without at least trying to back them up with facts. That just makes you a troll.

Hmm, a personal shot at me. If you truly believe that, then perhaps I have been posting to this forum for too much. I thought I was helping. I'll stop, as I have a website of my own to deal with.

Hi Rhia474. Apologies if I came across as acerbic but to be honest I have had previous experience of our friend's snide one-liners designed to stifle debate. In fact, he is one of the reasons I have stopped posting over at Hivewire. I would be more than happy to take part in any debate conducted in a reasonable manner by all parties but I certainly don't intend to tolerate being driven away from one forum only to put up with the same stupid comments from one of the people responsible for that decision. As to your other point, I would like to make my position clear on Poser and its new owner in the hope that no one will be able to further misinterpret my concerns which are the actions Bondware have taken re the handling of the licencing issues. When Poser was purchased by Bondware I, like many others was delighted that we, at last, had an owner capable of reviving its fortunes and taking the program forward as it deserves. I still believe that this was a good move for all concerned, buyers and owners alike. However, that purchase came with impediments in the form of SM's unfortunate decision to impose its 'phone-home' feature which I believe was originally applied with the intention of putting certain versions of Poser on a subscription-only basis. That feature has been perpetuated and inherited by Bondware. Not an ideal situation and clearly a feature which is detested by many as countless posts here can attest both long before and after Bondwares purchase. That situation is further exacerbated when that feature is not only retained but extended from approximately once a month to every nine days with the added threat of purchasers losing access to the program they have purchased if they do not comply. I would remind you that we are talking about a permanent license here and that has a meaning in legal terms, in fact, at some point in the future could result in a legal challenge being mounted. (I should insert at this point that this is something I have verified with my lawyers, not with the intention of doing so but as a hypothetical test in order to be sure of my facts!). That's certainly not an ideal given that Poser has taken a considerable battering from various people, including to my regret, people within the Poser community itself. I am certain that in the hands of Bondware Poser does/could have a better future than the recent past would otherwise indicate. However, It does not help Posers cause when Bondware remain silent in response to so many queries about a feature which has caused such contention in the past and is leading to a build-up of anger in the present. As you rightly point out, Bondware has been in ownership for four months now so isn't that plenty of time not only to respond to the licensing problems or even acknowledge that a lot of people have justifiable concerns about it? In my opinion, I think it is for the simple reason that ignoring it causes unnecessary problems which could be easily solved with a little more openness on Bondwares behalf. Poser does not need that sort of bad publicity and as I stated before, the people they are alienating now are the same people they will be expecting to pay out for the next version of Poser. So yes, that is my opinion and I am quite willing to debate it openly and reasonably. Just don't expect me to shut up just because someone decides a snide one-liner constitutes a reasoned response! Respect!

Mythocentric posted at 6:16AM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368349

Hi Rhia474.

"... However, that purchase came with impediments in the form of SM's unfortunate decision to impose its 'phone-home' feature which I believe was originally applied with the intention of putting certain versions of Poser on a subscription-only basis. That feature has been perpetuated and inherited by Bondware. Not an ideal situation and clearly a feature which is detested by many as countless posts here can attest both long before and after Bondwares purchase. That situation is further exacerbated when that feature is not only retained but extended from approximately once a month to every nine days with the added threat of purchasers losing access to the program they have purchased if they do not comply. I would remind you that we are talking about a permanent license here and that has a meaning in legal terms, in fact, at some point in the future could result in a legal challenge being mounted. (I should insert at this point that this is something I have verified with my lawyers, not with the intention of doing so but as a hypothetical test in order to be sure of my facts!) ..."

Agreed. In addition, you'd think that the existence of a viable alternative that is not crippled by phone home would lend itself to a little "eye opening" on the part of the new owners. I do not use any Adobe products newer than CS6 (the last non phone home), I won't use Substance for the same reason. I don't care what app it is nor how much I love it, if they go "subscription" (i.e., analyzing, location, perusing your personal computer, collecting personal data etc., the truth of it) I'm out. Period.

Just a thought: has it occurred to anyone that the phone home feature is maybe taking time to detangle from the code? I am not a programmer, but I know what a mess Poser's code is with the owner changes, 3rd party room additions etc. maybe 4 months since the acquisition was not enough time to get it out in a manner that does not damage something else?

I would, though, agree on the communications lacking. I requested a few times that for heaven's sake at least add 'new home of Poser' to their main page so people don't see nothing but DAZ content on the fist landing here. I was assured something is being worked on, but official communication about such things would be nice, especially if it was done in a way that reaches a lot of people.

Mythocentric posted at 1:52PM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368349

Hi Rhia474. Apologies if I came across as acerbic but to be honest I have had previous experience of our friend's snide one-liners designed to stifle debate. In fact, he is one of the reasons I have stopped posting over at Hivewire. I would be more than happy to take part in any debate conducted in a reasonable manner by all parties but I certainly don't intend to tolerate being driven away from one forum only to put up with the same stupid comments from one of the people responsible for that decision.

I wasn't going to say anything, but to be honest, all I do at Hivewire is ask questions or post WIP screenshots. How is that being snide? For that matter, what was snide about not noticing any "blanket" silence on Bondware's part? However, trust me, if I'm ever snide to you, without a doubt, you'll know it.

@EClark1894

Let it go ;)

Rhia474 posted at 7:34PM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368376

Just a thought: has it occurred to anyone that the phone home feature is maybe taking time to detangle from the code? I am not a programmer, but I know what a mess Poser's code is with the owner changes, 3rd party room additions etc. maybe 4 months since the acquisition was not enough time to get it out in a manner that does not damage something else?

I would, though, agree on the communications lacking. I requested a few times that for heaven's sake at least add 'new home of Poser' to their main page so people don't see nothing but DAZ content on the fist landing here. I was assured something is being worked on, but official communication about such things would be nice, especially if it was done in a way that reaches a lot of people.

I have seen that put forward as a possible reason elsewhere Rhia474. I'm not a programmer either so I leave that to the people who are. However, that said does a presumably experienced coder find it so difficult to trace the 'guilty' code? Now admittedly, many people who have had firsthand experience of IT bods would instantly reply in the affirmative, but, joking aside, it doesn't explain why Bondware has been able to take that code and change it from SM's monthly 'phone-home' informing the user that they needed to reactivate their license to a thrice-monthly requirement to 'phone-home' to avoid losing their lease. Note that word 'lease'. That's one of the points which was emphasized by my lawyer friend. It could be argued that a simple continuation of SM's monthly activation requirement could have been allowed under the 'custom and practice' rules giving Bondware time to install their own system. However, what has happened is that Bondware has changed the rules. More importantly, they have changed them after the fact. In brief, we purchased Poser (from Bondware) on the basis that we were buying a permanent license. SM's backdoor introduction of the monthly activation notwithstanding. Now we are being told that unless we 'phone-home' every nine days or so we will lose our lease. The actual wording is 'renew your lease'. The fact that it appears on a pop-up window warning you to phone-home constitutes a statement of policy (implied) because it is a notification from the owners, Bondware and that makes it a statement of intent by Bondware. The implication is clear. Bondware has either changed the rules without the advanced notification they are required to give with regards to purchase and the form that purchase will take regarding terms and conditions after the purchase has been made (without consent) or somewhere along the way some coder has reached a point where they have decided, "that'll do". (The equivalent of an electrician poking the wires with his finger to find out which is the live one!) and Bondware has simply decided to run with it. That is just storing up a whole lot of trouble for the future and its something which is potentially liable to turn on its owners big time. Not exactly good business practice from a company who appears to want to reverse Posers fortunes and tun it into a viable and successful part of the 3D community. Remember also that this is with regard to a program which has already experienced a whole load of grief due to the previous owners ill-fated handling and their underestimation of the great regard with which Poser owners view it! That's why I view Bondwares blanket silence on the matter as something to deeply regret. As things stand, that silence is speaking volumes and creates a vacuum which is being filled with speculation and no small amount of misinformation together with the sort of glib answers like 'the answer to that is above my pay grade' and 'maybe it will be different in the next version of Poser!' which serve no purpose other than to further exacerbate an already fraught situation. The only people who can address that are Bondware and its well past time they stepped up to the plate of the many people whose concerns they have so far chosen to ignore! Rant over! Respect!

Quick edit: That last line should read, The only people who can address that are Bondware and its well past time they stepped up to the plate and addressed the legitimate concerns of the people they have so far chosen to ignore! Rant over! Respect!

Unfortunately, there seems to be a time limit on editing which I appear to have exceeded. Apologies!

I have been in the software business for close to 40 years. A Poser user since version 2. Renderosity since it was created. After this 11.2 disaster, I may be done with this product.

3dCritter

Mythocentric posted at 4:21AM Fri, 01 November 2019 - #4368421

Quick edit: That last line should read, The only people who can address that are Bondware and its well past time they stepped up to the plate and addressed the legitimate concerns of the people they have so far chosen to ignore! Rant over! Respect!

Unfortunately, there seems to be a time limit on editing which I appear to have exceeded. Apologies!

Actually, your edit got through! I read your entire rant. I agree. Respect to the Mytho.

3dCritter

What "disaster"? I'm sure the vast majority of users don't recognise any disaster and found the update easy to install with no problems, those who previously had poser 11 standard got a free update to pro, plus loads of free extra content.

Ok, I understand that some people have issues with the phone home situation, but this was something that was introduced in previous poser versions, 2014 game dev and poser 11, the only difference being that a permanent activation is not available, but longer activations can be requested.

Unfortunately a number of people seem to prefer to come on the forums to rant rather than have problems solved or at least ameliorated. For example on another board someone came on ranting how stupid Rendo was when if they had read the previous thread, which must have been the top thread when they wrote theirs, they would have had the answer about updating.

Ok my rant over, I just wish people could get behind poser, rather than being so negative all the time.

Nails60 posted at 12:21PM Fri, 01 November 2019 - #4368856

3dCritter

What "disaster"? I'm sure the vast majority of users don't recognise any disaster and found the update easy to install with no problems, those who previously had poser 11 standard got a free update to pro, plus loads of free extra content.

Same here. Had a permanent licence from SM, downloaded poser 11.2 as per instructions, and everything smooth as butter.

On a Mac, by the way, so it might possibly be a Windows glitch they're having. But I'll check the phonehome thing on this laptop by switching the WiFi off each time I use Poser from now on and see what happens.

OK! Sit back and think for a while. There's no problem with the updates, and incidentally A_Sunbeam, those who previously had Poser 11 did NOT get a free update to Poser Pro, myself included. Poser 11 users had to purchase an upgrade at $99 after which the upgrade to Poser Pro 11.2 was free as it was for everyone else.

3DCritter: Yes, you had a permanent license from SM, albeit one which required you to 'phone-home' every month which was a result of SM's ill-fated attempt to move Poser onto a subscription basis, and I'm sure you remember the controversy that caused, and incidentally started the downhill slide for Poser as far as SM were concerned. Enter Renderosity and suddenly things are looking much brighter. Until, that is you realise that their new license system is even worse than the old one because now, instead of having to contact the server to re-activate your license you are being told to contact the server to renew your lease three times a month in addition to which, if statements on the Daz forum are to be believed, Renderosity have removed the permanent license feature. Now I'm taking statements like that with a pinch of salt for now, but I have to ask, why did I have to read that on the Daz forum and not here? The simple answer is because no one with any authority here is talking, and supplying everyone with the information we need to clear the matter up. Instead we being told to 'show some patience' because they are all excited about how hunky-dory Poser 12's going to be. Do you honestly think thats true when no one is willing to explain why they have imposed a license regime which is even worse than the one which caused so much trouble in the first place? After all, unless there is a great seachange in Renderosity's thinking thats exactly the same license they'll impose on Poser 12. Thats what people are worried about. The rest of it is just hot air from those who think their opinions count more the the rest!

Mythocentric. I believe your first comment to be factually incorrect. Rendo made it clear that all users of poser 2014game dev, poser11 and poser 11 pro users, for instance see this thread

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938482

I'm not doubting your word that you paid to upgrade, just saying there was no need to once the 11.2 upgrade was released.

Poser 11, Poser Pro 11 and Poser 2014 Game Dev updates to Poser 11.2 were free.

https://www.renderosity.com/the-day-has-come-poser-pro-11-2-update-has-been-released-cms-21781

Please try to remain factually correct. If you had those 3 versions, it cost nothing to update--unless of course, you chose to pay. If you updated from an earlier version, it was your choice to upgrade, and $99 was a significantly reduced price compared to what it cost me when Poser 11 Pro came out originally and I upgraded my Poser 2014.

If you have Poser 2014 Game Dev, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11, this update will convert your Poser to Poser Pro 11.2 at no additional cost.

If you have Poser 10 or below you are not required to update, but you can upgrade for $99.

Rhia474 posted at 4:41AM Sat, 02 November 2019 - #4368376

Just a thought: has it occurred to anyone that the phone home feature is maybe taking time to detangle from the code? I am not a programmer, but I know what a mess Poser's code is with the owner changes, 3rd party room additions etc. maybe 4 months since the acquisition was not enough time to get it out in a manner that does not damage something else?

Well - they succeeded in making it call home more often ... so I think they do know where that piece of code is, as they did change it.

I think that allot of members loose the Point of the worries , actually there would not be an issue on how a program needs to be activated, but if there is a Kill switch in a Program then people get uncomfortable. if it were just a other creation Program there is less to worry as files you mostly use can be shared between many . So if one goes down you can use another. In the case of Poser there is a Huge Investment issue from 3rd Party creators who suddenly depend on the fact that the Poser owner can do with the Investments made just as they wish . The Packages you buy are not supported by any other Program without conversion in Poser. This is allot of Power if one has to worry that one morning all he has bought goes down the drain because the Licence is not renewed.

Like said Bondware does not give a darn about these worries just by saying give it time and have no worries ... the issue is not resolved this way ( Smith micro sure had the online activator but there was a backdoor with the Manual and the Permanent licence to make sure that Poser does not stop working ... the Manual is still active Btw. ) Bondware removed all these options no backdoor no Permanent licence . and this is the Point that makes Costumers and Creators worry to loose all the Investments .... or could in case of a shutdown the user ask for a refund of every Poser model at Renderosity to minimize the loss in such a case?

the way it is set up now is a big responsibility and there is a big risc of loss if they would loose access to there investments. I have alone over 1000 own creations from the past 4 years. With the thought that if there is an issue with that licence I could loose it all makes me feel really uncomfortable it even makes my site depend on this licencing system !!! I have my options as every Poser I possess has no call home and no kill switch this allows me to continue , newcomers will not have that options.

Compared with Daz studio once you have installed that Program there is nothing to be worried about you can even reinstall it with no worries in case of a crash or a new Computer! Yo do not have to worry that you could loose access to your Purchases of models or creations whilst there is no kill switch built in. So where do you think Future costumers and creators will go ? The actual Bondware model sure seems to be Doomed the way it is set up!

@ Kerya they sure have the full access to that code as they can change it , change the time of call home , make it Permanent etc. they could remove the Manual activation, so the setup is clearly made on purpose, there is no excuse ! It is easy to Point the finger to Smith micro but at this point it is not possible any longer . it is clearly the Bondware model

Rhia474 posted at 10:46PM Sat, 02 November 2019 - #4368936

Poser 11, Poser Pro 11 and Poser 2014 Game Dev updates to Poser 11.2 were free.

https://www.renderosity.com/the-day-has-come-poser-pro-11-2-update-has-been-released-cms-21781

Please try to remain factually correct. If you had those 3 versions, it cost nothing to update--unless of course, you chose to pay. If you updated from an earlier version, it was your choice to upgrade, and $99 was a significantly reduced price compared to what it cost me when Poser 11 Pro came out originally and I upgraded my Poser 2014.
If you have Poser 2014 Game Dev, Poser 11, and Poser Pro 11, this update will convert your Poser to Poser Pro 11.2 at no additional cost.

If you have Poser 10 or below you are not required to update, but you can upgrade for $99.

Curiouser and curiouser! I’m glad you have decided to opt for factual correctness Rhia474 because what you have effectively told us is that Renderosity have taken payment for something people didn’t need to pay for! Let’s have a look at some facts:

After the buyout Renderosity released an offer to upgrade to Poser Pro 11 for $99 or purchase it for $199 if they didn’t already own any version of Poser. Nowhere in that offer did it state that Poser 11 would be upgraded free, although I’m sure that if it did you would be happy to point out the relevant statement saying that it did. In fact Poser 11 was not actually included in that initial upgrade offer. The result of queries from users with regards to Poser 11 lead Renderosity to change that initial offer of upgrade very quickly to include Poser 11 at the same price of $99. Again at no point in that offer did Renderosity point out that it was unnecessary for users to actually pay for that upgrade and again, I and many others would be grateful if you would refer us to the relevant statement in that upgrade offer! Sometime after that Renderosity released an update to change the terms of their license and corrects some minor bugs. This was the update resulting in Poser Pro 11.2. As this was well after the fact of the initial upgrades which I and many others paid for I am sure that they will be as surprised as myself to learn that we ‘volunteered’ to pay for something we didn’t need to and that Renderosity have knowingly taken payment for something we didn’t need to pay for! If that is indeed the case Renderosity have more questions to answer than what increasingly appears to be their ‘subscription by stealth’ licensing system. In all honesty, I believe you should think very carefully before appointing yourself as the unofficial spokesman for the people who should be addressing this matter and are steadfastly avoiding doing so. Meanwhile, I shall be be talking to my lawyers again about recovering the money I paid for something I didn’t need to or at least, trying to get an answer as to why Renderosity took payment for something they neglected to inform us was not actually necessary!

I'm afraid yours is a very spurious argument. As stated once poser 11.2 was released the upgrade was free. There is also a lot of content from the market place that is now free..At what point should Rendo have informed everybody that these items were to become free?

The statement you made that you were had to upgrade to poser pro and then the upgrade was free was untrue. There was no requirement to upgrade to poser pro to get the upgrade once released..

I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument that Rendo should have informed people that they would be getting the upgrade free, just that your statement was factually incorrect, there was no need to upgrade before getting the free upgrade. Anyone with poser 11 standard at the time 11.2 was released got a free upgrade.

Nails60 posted at 1:04PM Sun, 03 November 2019 - #4369020

I'm afraid yours is a very spurious argument. As stated once poser 11.2 was released the upgrade was free. There is also a lot of content from the market place that is now free..At what point should Rendo have informed everybody that these items were to become free?

The statement you made that you were had to upgrade to poser pro and then the upgrade was free was untrue. There was no requirement to upgrade to poser pro to get the upgrade once released..

I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument that Rendo should have informed people that they would be getting the upgrade free, just that your statement was factually incorrect, there was no need to upgrade before getting the free upgrade. Anyone with poser 11 standard at the time 11.2 was released got a free upgrade.

It's been said several times that the update was made primarily for two reasons, to "rebrand" Poser as a Bondware product, and to get everybody onto the same license server. I don't even think Bondware had it's Poser Dev team completely in place at that point.

The added content was an afterthought, and a gift from vendors.

I've altered the prefs so that Poser no longer checks for updates.

I will run Poser offline all November and see if it complains about not being able to connect to whatever.

By which time, with any luck, the next patch will be available; 11.2.307 was the last they issued.

A_Sunbeam posted at 3:36PM Thu, 14 November 2019 - #4369071

I've altered the prefs so that Poser no longer checks for updates.

I will run Poser offline all November and see if it complains about not being able to connect to whatever.

Update: Macbook still offine. Opened Poser just now and got the notice attached ... so it does phone home. Despite the message as soon as I switched the WiFi back on and clicked on poser it opened as normal. Just thought you'd like to know!

Screen Shot 2019-11-14 at 15.31.06.png

When DAZ introduced DRM products a couple of years ago there was similar back and forth about it. What you have to realize though is very few people use forums, so comments here are not significant. What was significant at DAZ is they couldn't sell DRM products. And when they figured that out, they stopped trying. They never admitted they were wrong, nobody cared anyway, but they started out saying that any DRM product would have the DRM removed after one year, and at that point there was no new DRM product being offered.

Rendo wants to sell you Poser. 11.2 was a bridge product, leaving all the other changes all they were trying to do is move from Smith Micros servers to theirs. There is going to be a next major Poser release. If it still phones home I think you can figure out the answer.

actually never had a announcement from smith micro that it would have to prolong a lease, I believe it was there plan to do it but it never happen so now it seems that Bondware took the idea over LOL.

Honestly in all the years when smith micro owned Poser there has never been a message to activate Poser again this just occurred since the take over so it sure is a strange thing that happen . meanwhile I do not care any longer just sit on the 11.1 version with permanent licence and no call home anymore. if there are further plans that Bondware wants to keep a kill switch call home or a lease well then they can keep it. would not spend a dime on such a setup as Poser basically is to use the models made for it that are sold, so if one needs to worry about hes purchases that depend on that system it would be a no go!

@ sunbeam it seems that this call home does not hold the mentioned period but seeing from your post dates just about 10 day's until it calls back home and might be even less. I really start wondering what else they set up into poser to check on your habits, and I would not wonder if one day you get pop up adds like google does in the browser with the great idea that customers know whats new in the store

It might still be calling the Smith Micro Server which doesn't recognize it, since the switch over.

EClark1894 posted at 11:54PM Thu, 14 November 2019 - #4370226

It might still be calling the Smith Micro Server which doesn't recognize it, since the switch over.

A_Sunbeam stated he has 11.2.307 ... which means Bondware.

He also stated that he altered the prefs. I'm just suggesting that it can't find the server it's supposed to call, so it's switched back to the default, which Poser seems to love to do.

Installed 11.2.319 just now.

Will continue running Poser with WiFi off (and checking for updates still switched off).

The Bondware released Poser 11.2 versions can not ever communicate or even attempt to communicate with the SM licence server, both because the SM licence server for Poser is switched off, and because Poser 11.2 is hard coded (not a configurable preference setting) to communicate with the Bondware licence server. The only variable, at this point, is how long the Bondware server will tell a specifically licensed Poser instance that it can wait before it needs to renew its lease. Those who have a specific need, or circumstances which will prevent their computer from contacting the licence server are welcome to request a longer grace period.

My ShareCG Stuff

Verbosity: Profusely promulgating Graham's number epics of complete and utter verbiage by the metric monkey barrel.

I don't really like periodically having to go online to verify my license so I can use my Smith Micro PoserPro 11 (which I, of course, updated to Bondware back when I was supposed to). I like to work offline, and sometimes when I open Poser, I have to reverify and sometimes I don't. Wish I knew what controls this and what to expect.

W11,Intel i9-14900KF @ 3.20GHz, 64.0 GB RAM, 64-bit, GeForce GTX 4070 Ti SUPER, 16GB.

Old lady hobbyist. All visual art or fiction is "playing with dolls."

VISIT MY ALBUMSFOR COMICS: https://www.renderosity.com/users/VedaDalsette/gallery/albums

You can also get to my comics from my book website: https://www.vdbooks.com.

VedaDalsette posted at 7:28PM Mon, 25 November 2019 - #4371235

Wish I knew ... what to expect. Ditto.

Well after that Bondware found out that SM left the offline activator online it has been removed from there site. It was to be expected that it would happen and shows the true face of it all .... 1st. the offline activator could of been kept without a problem and hosted by Bondware! 2ond. Bondware took this option off on purpose! 3rd. Now officially they took away any options to continue using the Game Dew and 11.1 versions

the ones who saved the Page offline might still have the option to activate on there computers others well will need to figure out another option for these older versions ( Legally they could insist to keep these ) Sm would have to activate these. the only way that SM could get around it is if they close there Site or sell there whole brand as they are bound on the contract as long as they exist even if they sold the versions! If you have kept your bill it will be the proof that they got the money for the Programs there would be no way around for them. If you ask em gently they will send you the offline activator as it only works for older versions and will not affect the Bondware new releases. this will allow you to use Poser 11 .1 and Gamedew offline ... if they do not cooperate just make a report to the costumer Protection they might take care of the issues.

We have first "Curious Labs" then "e Frontier" then " Smith Micro" every change did not cause that an older version would be shut down, it would not of been legal. but now we have Smith Micro to Bondware and two versions get shut so how could this be justified " It could not ! " in the whole Poser History it is the first time something like this happen, there is no excuse from both sides as somehow it was a strategic move that it would end up with a kill switch from both sides.

Personally I think that people do not realize what is going on letting Industrials just do with them and there trust as they wish " really sad to see onto what direction all this is leading to "

gate posted at 3:39PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371306

We have first "Curious Labs" then "e Frontier" then " Smith Micro" every change did not cause that an older version would be shut down, it would not of been legal. but now we have Smith Micro to Bondware and two versions get shut so how could this be justified " It could not ! "

... Because the Curious Labs and the e Frontier versions didn't have any phone home features... because back then pretty much NO software did. SMITH MICRO introduced this, likely because SM works with other types of software and THOSE work well with such functions so they just shoved that into Poser to try to stop piracy (which of course doesn't work).

I don't know why Bondware won't remove it, and not my scope here - let's not start donning tinfoil hats and coming up with conspiracy theories please. Curious Labs and e Frontier didn't do this because it wasn't a thing when Poser belonged to them, and it's not like Bondware decided to annoy every user via kill switch now that they'll have so much trouble making Poser widely relevant again. Complain about the phone home switch all you want but please stop going into convoluted ways to try to blame solely Bondware for it.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

@ Afrodite-Ohki If you read my comment the right way you will notice that I said " If you wish having your older versions working then contact Smith Micro to get an activation option " so I do not blame Bondware for this, Bondware can do what they wish with further developments but not influence the Previous versions. In case that it was Forced from Bondware to remove the offline Activator for Previous versions then they might be responsible for shutting down these older versions, they could get blamed for it !

Well gate, I gave it a try and emailed SM just now, I thought I had done this previously. We'll see what happens and thanks for posting that little bit of info )

movida posted at 12:47AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371328

Well gate, I gave it a try and emailed SM just now, I thought I had done this previously. We'll see what happens and thanks for posting that little bit of info ) will be great to hear what SM has to say ... I have my 11.1 version working just fine offline meanwhile and if they are willing to offer this alternative for there Customer it would be just fair, else there would just be the need of a little more Pressure. the whole thing is not going the right way and I think it should be cleared up, I believe that Bondware has a good sense for right and there should not be any reason to blame them if they have nothing to do with the way it went with these older Licences, unless it was an agreement that the older Licences have to be shut down then for sure both would have to be blamed.

I also noticed that even that if one has a Permanent licence that somehow there were attempts to shut down these running versions to force to change to the Bondware versions I think that if such a attempt happen it would be an attack on Personal Computers !

somehow the quote messed Up......

will be great to hear what SM has to say ... I have my 11.1 version working just fine offline meanwhile and if they are willing to offer this alternative for there Customer it would be just fair, else there would just be the need of a little more Pressure. the whole thing is not going the right way and I think it should be cleared up, I believe that Bondware has a good sense for right and there should not be any reason to blame them if they have nothing to do with the way it went with these older Licences, unless it was an agreement that the older Licences have to be shut down then for sure both would have to be blamed.

movida posted at 7:36PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371328

Well gate, I gave it a try and emailed SM just now, I thought I had done this previously. We'll see what happens and thanks for posting that little bit of info )

Yeah, Consumer Protection or not, don't hold your breath waiting for SM to do anything. Poser is not theirs anymore. It belongs to Bondware. And Consumer Protection won't make SM violate the law.

EClark1894 posted at 7:14PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371352

movida posted at 7:36PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371328

Well gate, I gave it a try and emailed SM just now, I thought I had done this previously. We'll see what happens and thanks for posting that little bit of info )

Yeah, Consumer Protection or not, don't hold your breath waiting for SM to do anything. Poser is not theirs anymore. It belongs to Bondware. And Consumer Protection won't make SM violate the law.

Where, exactly, is SM giving me a real permanent serial number (which I thought I had because I requested it previously) a violation of the law? The version the serial number being requested for is their version not bondware's. I purchased it from SM.

movida posted at 10:27PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371354

EClark1894 posted at 7:14PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371352

movida posted at 7:36PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371328

Well gate, I gave it a try and emailed SM just now, I thought I had done this previously. We'll see what happens and thanks for posting that little bit of info )

Yeah, Consumer Protection or not, don't hold your breath waiting for SM to do anything. Poser is not theirs anymore. It belongs to Bondware. And Consumer Protection won't make SM violate the law.

Where, exactly, is SM giving me a real permanent serial number (which I thought I had because I requested it previously) a violation of the law? The version the serial number being requested for is their version not bondware's. I purchased it from SM.

And SM sold that to Bondware. Think of it like this: You buy a car from a dealer. After the dealer sells it to you, he keeps a key to your car. So is it still his car or yours?

There is a little conflict going as If I bought a Serial from Smith micro , Smith micro can not sell your licence to another one and is at that moment bound with a contract to you. If I sell my licence to another Person then the agreement is valid between me and the one I sold it to. So Bondware could buy Poser but the contracts are only valid for future Licences but not for the ones sold by Smith micro , else it would mean that Bondware bought your Licences without making an agreement with you. if they force you it would be a expropriation !

The Car dealer can not sell the car he sold to you to another Person , unless it is a new Law In the US that allows it , it would be a "expropriation"

gate posted at 7:27AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371383

There is a little conflict going as If I bought a Serial from Smith micro , Smith micro can not sell your licence to another one and is at that moment bound with a contract to you. If I sell my licence to another Person then the agreement is valid between me and the one I sold it to. So Bondware could buy Poser but the contracts are only valid for future Licences but not for the ones sold by Smith micro , else it would mean that Bondware bought your Licences without making an agreement with you. if they force you it would be a expropriation !

The Car dealer can not sell the car he sold to you to another Person , unless it is a new Law In the US that allows it , it would be a "expropriation"

But Bondware DID buy your licences. Remember that the main point of the update was transfer all those licenses to the Bondware Server and rebrand the software. SM can't give you access to software that they no longer own. Otherwise they would have just left their server online... period.

Well so if it would be that easy if one owns a licence then the one could resell it just the way he wish to ....this would mean as I am in legal Possession of my licence that I can just sell it to whom I wish and how many times I want that must be a special feature in US Law LOL !

but see if it would really be the fact that Personal licences have been resold by Smith Micro to a third Party it sure would cause a big issue, as the conditions are not the same. I am aware that things differ a little all over the world from the Wild West conditions but sure if it is the way you say then it would be considered as "expropriation" of personal property.

the other thing is that the Licences are still all regisred at Smith micro in the Licence manager .. now we get to the next point ... if there has been a legal licence trans fair then Smith micro would have to have given the personal Information to Bondware of the Owner transferring my personal account data to them with the Key , I would of had to be Informed by Smith micro with exact info of the licences that have been transferred. This should be mentioned in my account at Smith Micro and then be accessible at Bondware else it would just be Piracy of personal property and Information.

EClark1894 posted at 8:53AM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371360

movida posted at 10:27PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371354

EClark1894 posted at 7:14PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371352

movida posted at 7:36PM Tue, 26 November 2019 - #4371328

Well gate, I gave it a try and emailed SM just now, I thought I had done this previously. We'll see what happens and thanks for posting that little bit of info )

Yeah, Consumer Protection or not, don't hold your breath waiting for SM to do anything. Poser is not theirs anymore. It belongs to Bondware. And Consumer Protection won't make SM violate the law.

Where, exactly, is SM giving me a real permanent serial number (which I thought I had because I requested it previously) a violation of the law? The version the serial number being requested for is their version not bondware's. I purchased it from SM.

And SM sold that to Bondware. Think of it like this: You buy a car from a dealer. After the dealer sells it to you, he keeps a key to your car. So is it still his car or yours?

If the original dealer committed to providing you a spare key you'd have to go to them wouldn't you?

OK, I've gotten 2 replies from SM up to this point: the first was go pound sand, and the second was FOAD - I've not given up so we'll see what reply #3 is lmao

On another note, one juicy little bit of info was that: "The new version uses a new Activation System" which means the new activation system is not the old activation system and therefore, was replaced by Bondware and therefore it seems any hope of having it removed is doa huh?

gate posted at 2:13PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371391

Well so if it would be that easy if one owns a licence then the one could resell it just the way he wish to ....this would mean as I am in legal Possession of my licence that I can just sell it to whom I wish and how many times I want that must be a special feature in US Law LOL !

but see if it would really be the fact that Personal licences have been resold by Smith Micro to a third Party it sure would cause a big issue, as the conditions are not the same. I am aware that things differ a little all over the world from the Wild West conditions but sure if it is the way you say then it would be considered as "expropriation" of personal property.

the other thing is that the Licences are still all regisred at Smith micro in the Licence manager .. now we get to the next point ... if there has been a legal licence trans fair then Smith micro would have to have given the personal Information to Bondware of the Owner transferring my personal account data to them with the Key , I would of had to be Informed by Smith micro with exact info of the licences that have been transferred. This should be mentioned in my account at Smith Micro and then be accessible at Bondware else it would just be Piracy of personal property and Information.

They (SM) can sell the license only once...but your information? That is the real goldmine. There is a reason why I get half a dozen calls a day telling me to buy medical insurance (It's the law in California, USA that you MUST have medical insurance). Gate, don't think I do not believe you have a point. You certainly do. My only question is how can we tell if SM still has my personal information?

@ quietrob If you go at Smith micro into your account you can see your Licence Keys in the Licence manager but they will say that they no longer exist, this means that they stored Personal Information also if you kept the bill and Payment mail you will see it under the order number, they can check it any time if you send it to them! These Information had to be transferred to Bondware as they sure had to get the Licence Information. But this would of had to be notified by Smith micro in first Place if they sold your Licences.

Well I will contact my Cousin I grew up with, she is a Professor of Law at Duke Law School, Her Husband is a Big Lawer at Washington DC, either they could contact Smith Micro about the Issue to see what they have to say or at least tell me how things would work and how to proceed in case one Insists having the 11.1 or Game Dew working. to be on the secure side, they know better the Laws in the US then I do !

I also contacted SM Insisting for an Update to get 11.1 working on the machine as they removed the Offline activator Last week will see what they have to say to me ....

gate posted at 4:55PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371451

@ quietrob If you go at Smith micro into your account you can see your Licence Keys in the Licence manager but they will say that they no longer exist, this means that they stored Personal Information also if you kept the bill and Payment mail you will see it under the order number, they can check it any time if you send it to them! These Information had to be transferred to Bondware as they sure had to get the Licence Information. But this would of had to be notified by Smith micro in first Place if they sold your Licences.

Well I will contact my Cousin I grew up with, she is a Professor of Law at Duke Law School, Her Husband is a Big Lawer at Washington DC, either they could contact Smith Micro about the Issue to see what they have to say or at least tell me how things would work and how to proceed in case one Insists having the 11.1 or Game Dew working. to be on the secure side, they know better the Laws in the US then I do !

I also contacted SM Insisting for an Update to get 11.1 working on the machine as they removed the Offline activator Last week will see what they have to say to me ...

Just sticking my .02 in here uninvited :) But SM stated to me that the new version (bondwares) uses a new activation system. To me, that means they replaced the SM activation system with their own and routed that to their license server. Seems to have been a rather easy process to remove/replace the despised call home function.

I wonder why they did not keep the Offline activator running it would not of been any Problem , or why they did not keep the permanent licences activated, this also would not of been of any trouble ... I really start to believe that they did not only sell the Poser but also each and every Customer. If you look at it correctly you are getting a substandard replacement atm ! Sure there are Options to keep Poser 11.1 running but actually it should be offered by Smith Micro for there Customers as the version of Bondware and Smith micro are two Pair of Shoes.

Actually they redirected me to Bondware what I do not accept giving them the responsbility to solve the Problems. Now we are at this point that Smith micro Points fingers at Bondware and Bondware at Smith Micro . It is a real Kindergarden for a really easy to solve Problem, so why ? there must be allot more behid all this if they insist that Poser 11.1 that they have sold can't be running any longer , giving no reasonable reason for it.

Imagine one morning you turn on your Mac or Pc and you will get the notification that the grace Period is over ! that you have to download a new version from another Provider with new condition ... that would cause a real Desaster !

you Never get such a message you get Informed that this version is no longer supported but that you can keep it running on your System as you legally Purchased it !

If People start to accept such new acts then one starts and Others will fallow and also start pulling such forced changes , they will start to expropriate you sell you to others. I remember times when People were defending there rights but now they rather seam to be tamed sheep

At this point I think the only real reason for the upgrade to 11.2 is that bondware replaced sm's phone home utility with their own (maybe more invasive - it seems so if it's calling home more frequently) and redirected to their servers, The extra content was a bribe and distraction:) I do think this was not quite ethical, consumers should have been given an option to keep their 11.1 running as is, and the lacking explanation of what was going on (no release notes for example) indicate a not serious concern with transparency. As for SM - we gave our money to them and they're now out of the country. How convenient.

movida posted at 9:50AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371520

At this point I think the only real reason for the upgrade to 11.2 is that bondware replaced sm's phone home utility with their own (maybe more invasive - it seems so if it's calling home more frequently) and redirected to their servers, The extra content was a bribe and distraction:) I do think this was not quite ethical, consumers should have been given an option to keep their 11.1 running as is, and the lacking explanation of what was going on (no release notes for example) indicate a not serious concern with transparency. As for SM - we gave our money to them and they're now out of the country. How convenient.

They have NEVER hid from any of us that 11.2 was basically to rebrand Poser and replace the activation system. They constantly and openly called it a BRIDGE update because of that. If you want to call OUR gifts (as vendors who offered the extra content in hopes of giving back to Poser community and making it more active again) "bribes and distraction" please, feel free to delete the content.

Honestly, you people's desire to find insult in what is simply common software practice is ending up insulting much more than Bondware.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:04AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371527

movida posted at 9:50AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371520

At this point I think the only real reason for the upgrade to 11.2 is that bondware replaced sm's phone home utility with their own (maybe more invasive - it seems so if it's calling home more frequently) and redirected to their servers, The extra content was a bribe and distraction:) I do think this was not quite ethical, consumers should have been given an option to keep their 11.1 running as is, and the lacking explanation of what was going on (no release notes for example) indicate a not serious concern with transparency. As for SM - we gave our money to them and they're now out of the country. How convenient.

They have NEVER hid from any of us that 11.2 was basically to rebrand Poser and replace the activation system. They constantly and openly called it a BRIDGE update because of that. If you want to call OUR gifts (as vendors who offered the extra content in hopes of giving back to Poser community and making it more active again) "bribes and distraction" please, feel free to delete the content.

Honestly, you people's desire to find insult in what is simply common software practice is ending up insulting much more than Bondware.

As one of the "you people's" so disparagingly referred to I'd like to direct your attention to the thread where some end user had the audacity to inquire about release notes: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2939285#msg4368602 and was soundly attacked by the fan boy contingency.

Nobody wants to attack Bondware and we'd like to feel free enough to question the end results of decisions made without being attacked. We'd love to work happily in Poser without feeling like the new mark in a remake of The Sting.

So there.

PS: Jenn Blake was the one offering legit explanations, consistently

And I do think reining in the fan boy contingency and allowing people to ask questions YOU might think are insulting but which were not offered with that intent would be a good first step in expanding the forums. For every 1 person posting there are probably 100 just reading. Do you really think they'll risk being attacked for asking, what to them, seems like an innocent question?

I'm not talking about release notes. I'd like to have them as well.

I'm talking about accusing the gift content of being BRIBERY, that is insulting to us vendors who offered that content because we wanted the community to thrive again.

And I'm also talking about "I think the only real reason for the update" when it was CLEARLY stated that that was the real reason for the update. I'd like the release notes too, you can accuse them of lack of transparency on the specifics, but not on the real reason for the update - that much they have made very clear.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

As for "For every 1 person posting there are probably 100 just reading": yes definitely. Also for every 1 person just reading there are probably some 200 people just using the program. So those of us reading the forum might feel like this update was a disaster because of all the complaints, while in truth there are many many more who had a smooth update and are pleased with it. It's so much more common for people to be vocal about complaints than about praise, which is understandable but then we have to keep that in mind not to think that this was largely failure.

Honestly? I dislike the phone home thing too, but truth is that most people aren't even bothered at all with it. And anyone is allowed to be bothered by it, but then please don't drag down the people who were legitimately trying to help and get accused of bribery instead.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:53AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371536

As for "For every 1 person posting there are probably 100 just reading": yes definitely. Also for every 1 person just reading there are probably some 200 people just using the program. So those of us reading the forum might feel like this update was a disaster because of all the complaints, while in truth there are many many more who had a smooth update and are pleased with it. It's so much more common for people to be vocal about complaints than about praise, which is understandable but then we have to keep that in mind not to think that this was largely failure.

Honestly? I dislike the phone home thing too, but truth is that most people aren't even bothered at all with it. And anyone is allowed to be bothered by it, but then please don't drag down the people who were legitimately trying to help and get accused of bribery instead.

How do you know what "most" people think? I sure don't.
"bribery" and "distractions" are frequently used ploy's by every supplier/merchant/vendor in the world and are treated as legitimate marketing tools. I'm sorry you take such offense to a commonly and innocuously used descriptive but so be it.

movida posted at 1:06PM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371560

How do you know what "most" people think? I sure don't.

We both used the term "probably", you might notice.

"bribery" and "distractions" are frequently used ploy's by every supplier/merchant/vendor in the world and are treated as legitimate marketing tools. I'm sorry you take such offense to a commonly and innocuously used descriptive but so be it.

"I'm sorry you felt offended" is not an apology. I understand marketing - back in graphic design college we had a lot of lessons on that. Common, yes, innocuous no - thought manipulation is anything but that, and again, we wanted to hype up the Poser community and bring people back to activity, not to hide supposed intentions of an update that clearly stated its intent.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 12:24PM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371562

movida posted at 1:06PM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371560

How do you know what "most" people think? I sure don't.

We both used the term "probably", you might notice.

What has that got to do with anything????

"bribery" and "distractions" are frequently used ploy's by every supplier/merchant/vendor in the world and are treated as legitimate marketing tools. I'm sorry you take such offense to a commonly and innocuously used descriptive but so be it.

"I'm sorry you felt offended" is not an apology. I understand marketing - back in graphic design college we had a lot of lessons on that. Common, yes, innocuous no - thought manipulation is anything but that, and again, we wanted to hype up the Poser community and bring people back to activity, not to hide supposed intentions of an update that clearly stated its intent.

I wasn't apologizing.

Every sales pitch in the world is thought manipulation (or attempted same). Over and out. I have things to do.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 2:32AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371527

Honestly, you people's desire to find insult in what is simply common software practice is ending up insulting much more than Bondware.

Common in your world perhaps, but not in mine. I refuse to buy software that needs constant or periodically connection to the internet beyond activation, just because software companies are paranoid. Plenty of software that doesn't need an internet connection beyond activation. Actually still quite some software that is happy with a serial number only. I'm okay with companies wanting some activation through the internet the first time you start it and register. Beyond that, no thanks. You may have settled for all of this to be normal, but it really isn't normal at all. It's a huge invasion of our privacy and we've allowed software companies to do so..... under the so called 'its for your own protection' pretence. People accept way too many things as being normal way too easily these days.

I'm glad I found this thread, my Poser won't be updated, simple as that. I considered it, now not anymore. I don't need the latest version, it would be nice, but not a must. I decided to learn how to draw and paint a couple of yours back, my need for software like Poser and Vue has become minimal these days. All I use Poser for this these is to pose characters, it's back to it's roots for me.

Any company that forces me to use a cloud, internet connection or subsscription, isn't worth my money. For me it's as simple as that. Plenty of companies share that sentiment still.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

After some conversations with Smith micro it all resulted with simple answers that make no sense . when you wish having a Justification or insist having your Previous Purchased Versions active they repeat that Bondware is in charge ( This gives the answer that they sold the Customer's Info and Personal Serials )

It is the type of system the Chinese use un there Fraud sites when you buy something and do not get what you ordered, very difficult to get them and not worth it. after a conversation with my cousin I was told that the only way in such cases is not to make future Investments in doubtful product-lines !

For Creators this situation is really a Pain, you start to depend on a system that can be shut down from one day to another .... All these Vendors , all these artists all these Sites that make Publicity and support Poser , If Poser ever gets an Issue with the call home like we seen now with Poser Game Dew and Poser 11.1 it could be shut and pull in all these above mentioned supporters ! not to mention all the customers that Invested by buying 3D models for it. Bondware has now full controll over all these and can just do as they wish ( They did not only buy the Program ) they bought every creator every artist that uses that Program.

There might be allot who say ( Great Rendo got Poser and will support it ) but if one morning you will get the same notification like the one from Smith Micro " Grace Period Over " this will mean " Game Over " will you then as silent as you accepted the new facts accept these and say " Oh well all my Investments went down the Drain "

they now can tell you from one day to another " Pay every month a Fee else you will not be able to use what you Purchased " most would as it is a great fear that they cant Access all the have collected.

I know all this has no weight in here and does not change the facts or the future, at least I could write my worries about this Kill switch system and doubtful future for Poser. Good Programmers might be of help to get rid of that call home for the ones who wish having there old versions running Smith Micro is not willing to do so either is Bondware.

I started to Install some other Programs also DS having a closer look at them to see if it would be a better alternative also see if there Communities are more reasonable. From my side I will not be supporting any future Poser versions that have that call home feature and Feed that Industry so if Rendo Plans to keep that system on future releases I just will not get these just as I did not Update to Poser 11.2

If you have a closer look at it all there is less and less Poser models sold even at rendo the past month some new artists that were supporting Poser only start making stuff for DS. And not even the signs make em realize what is going on . I said before the ones who jump off ship and realize to get better support form elsewhere will not turn back ! I was admiring 1971s that was making Poser stuff but now this product line also goes to DS and on and on it goes ... the development is silent artists do not want to loose time with arguments about a lost thing ... they just leave.

Customers will realize more and more that DS has to offer better quality things because they will have the better Creators " I really believe that this Kill Switch is causing a irreparable Damage to the Poser communities.

EClark1894 posted at 6:09AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4367467

Hmm, just wondering. Aside from the non-kill switch thingie, what would Studio offer you that you can't get from Poser? I ask because if the kill switch were the only thing, why are you spending money on Poser anyway?

Earl, I'm answering a question that was asked by you early on; I haven't read all of this thread yet. I really like Poser. I had my eye on it starting with Poser 3, bought my first version at 5 and really started getting into it when 7 came out with a joint package with Shade. It seemed like a match made in heaven - a modeling program, a character program, and access to stores that sell quality 3d Models at affordable prices (Shade at the time was very smart and put out a book with a CLEAR tutorial. They had you make a table and a vase and a few other useful items. Following that step-by step I was able to model a lot of things quickly and they also had import/export support for Poser Figures - I have Lightwave now and wish there was a clearer more useful tutorial for some practical items rather than their dumb overly simplified truck.). I tried DAZ at the time, but it was a clunky second rate program compared to Curious Lab's Poser, which also had multiple books written about it. In the intervening years Smith Micro purchased Poser, but really didn't know what to do with it. I met with their team once when the company was giving presentations in Manhattan and tried to explain it to them. But they treated Poser and the Store like it was a standard piece of Oracle software, not like part of the artist community that it is. They didn't get that artists think a bit differently than your standard coders. To their credit Smith Micro didn't just shut it down and I'm hoping that Renderosity turns out to be a good partner for the software now.

In short, there will be a learning curve for DAZ. I'm semi-resigned that things will probably go that way here and I will become a Dazaholic. I know a good chunk of Poser without thinking and in my spare time have been having fun. Fun ceases when I get the kill switch message and I have to spend a day or two getting the thing up and running. Obviously not a full day in directed hours, but in RT by the time you send a help message, by the time someone gets around to answering, by the time you answer their questions... you get the idea.

I really feel that the key to the game here in a business sense is marketshare. Using Poser software as the camera versus film; the razor blade versus the shaver. One thing Daz is doing that Rendo has not is make use of their full library. Rendo obsoletes things and puts them on clearance. But this whole thing is still new. Someone that hasn't seen the early characters is still happy to use them because they are simpler and take less effort to render. When you're starting how important is weight mapping anyway.

I'm writing too much, but hopefully you see that I really want this to succeed and I really, really believe the kill switch for this particular business at this time is a bad idea that takes a lot of company time figuring out how to do policing rather than developing the software. For a $250 program upgrade I'd be willing to lease for $25 a month for 10 months until I "own." Or put down $50 or $100 and pay the balance on time. Also, if I stop, I should be able to pick up without penalty until the software is 'paid off". You see, $250 is not a lot for one item. But that $250 in a budget means it has to come out of character purchases or other software upgrades that might be more important for day-to-day life.

quietrob posted at 6:47AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4367494

I think a reasonable person would think it requires online activation, that is fine. Most programs require some type of basic registration. I also think a reasonable person, unless otherwise informed that I need to be online from time to time, would believe that it would work fine offline. Forever.

I do not remember being informed that I needed an internet connection for continued use of Poser. Even if it's every once in a while, then I should be informed. Were any of you informed of this requirement?

Moreover, the basic question I asked a while ago still hasn't been answered.

Why do we need to phone home at all, after the initial registration?

My Point exactly. This is a small community. Anyone that gets poser and tries to use it will go to Renderosity to buy something. Even if a percentage is 'pirated' by starving artists money will still come into Renderosity if the characters and character support are viable. The more people who have poser, the more people will come to Renderosity. It can be argued that the long-term strategy of this approach has already been successfully applied by DAZ, a former Poser wannabe now the one to beat.

Do you really believe that someone who doesn't pay for the program will come and buy content rather than looking for pirated content online? And having a phone home feature allows the 21 day free trial, in my mind a good idea to attract new users. So you had a problem once on switch over, or maybe later. Once sorted there should be no further problems, to say this destroyed your fun sounds a bit like saying you enjoy driving but the car broke down once so you now no longer like driving and are going to take the bus, a bit of an over reaction.

And your point about Rendo and clearance . From what I understand it is now up to vendors if items goes into clearance, while with DAZ items just disappear from the store with no warning. I've had this with items in my wish list and also when I've wanted to refer to store page of items I've purchased.

I understand that some people do not want their machines connected to the internet for security reasons but I do believe some of posts hear are going over the top.,

movida posted at 7:26AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4368355

Mythocentric posted at 6:16AM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368349

Hi Rhia474.

(1) "... However, that purchase came with impediments in the form of SM's unfortunate decision to impose its 'phone-home' feature which I believe was originally applied with the intention of putting certain versions of Poser on a subscription-only basis. That feature has been perpetuated and inherited by Bondware. Not an ideal situation and clearly a feature which is detested by many as countless posts here can attest both long before and after Bondwares purchase. That situation is further exacerbated when that feature is not only retained but extended from approximately once a month to every nine days with the added threat of purchasers losing access to the program they have purchased if they do not comply. I would remind you that we are talking about a permanent license here and that has a meaning in legal terms, in fact, at some point in the future could result in a legal challenge being mounted. (I should insert at this point that this is something I have verified with my lawyers, not with the intention of doing so but as a hypothetical test in order to be sure of my facts!) ..."

(2) ** Agreed.** In addition, you'd think that the existence of a viable alternative that is not crippled by phone home would lend itself to a little "eye opening" on the part of the new owners. I do not use any Adobe products newer than CS6 (the last non phone home), I won't use Substance for the same reason. I don't care what app it is nor how much I love it, if they go "subscription" (i.e., analyzing, location, perusing your personal computer, collecting personal data etc., the truth of it) I'm out. Period."

(3) I never buy subscription software unless (a) business requires it and I can make more money on the software than it costs for the subscription [think Adobe's near monopoly of the professional graphic illustrator's market] (b) it is subscribe to own, making the monthly cost very low, and the software permanently available as long as I have a system to run it. Poser is unusual in that it is not normally run as a stand alone software but instead needs the content that Renderosity provides. It should NEVER be a subscription software with a kill switch. That's just terrible, terrible long term planning for possible short term gain.

If poser had started with a kill switch or as subscription I would not have even considered buying the software or any of the content that it requires. My first 3D experience would have been DAZ all the way.

Nails60 posted at 8:02AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371756

Do you really believe that someone who doesn't pay for the program will come and buy content rather than looking for pirated content online?

The short answer is emphatically "Yes". That is the current Daz model which has surpassed Poser. That was the Poser model before Poser fell out of favor. I slao believe that is the way things will have to go in order for Poser to prosper.

I can't edit so I'll correct. I goofed on the Poser analogy above. I meant there was no kill siwtch, not that it was free, though often it was discounted to $99 or less. I think one upgrade version may have been $67 or $69 which is very inexpensive. My Daz statement is correct.

consumer573 posted at 7:46AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371757

movida posted at 7:26AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4368355

Mythocentric posted at 6:16AM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368349

Hi Rhia474.

(1) "... However, that purchase came with impediments in the form of SM's unfortunate decision to impose its 'phone-home' feature which I believe was originally applied with the intention of putting certain versions of Poser on a subscription-only basis. That feature has been perpetuated and inherited by Bondware. Not an ideal situation and clearly a feature which is detested by many as countless posts here can attest both long before and after Bondwares purchase. That situation is further exacerbated when that feature is not only retained but extended from approximately once a month to every nine days with the added threat of purchasers losing access to the program they have purchased if they do not comply. I would remind you that we are talking about a permanent license here and that has a meaning in legal terms, in fact, at some point in the future could result in a legal challenge being mounted. (I should insert at this point that this is something I have verified with my lawyers, not with the intention of doing so but as a hypothetical test in order to be sure of my facts!) ..."

(2) ** Agreed.** In addition, you'd think that the existence of a viable alternative that is not crippled by phone home would lend itself to a little "eye opening" on the part of the new owners. I do not use any Adobe products newer than CS6 (the last non phone home), I won't use Substance for the same reason. I don't care what app it is nor how much I love it, if they go "subscription" (i.e., analyzing, location, perusing your personal computer, collecting personal data etc., the truth of it) I'm out. Period."

(3) I never buy subscription software unless (a) business requires it and I can make more money on the software than it costs for the subscription [think Adobe's near monopoly of the professional graphic illustrator's market] (b) it is subscribe to own, making the monthly cost very low, and the software permanently available as long as I have a system to run it. Poser is unusual in that it is not normally run as a stand alone software but instead needs the content that Renderosity provides. It should NEVER be a subscription software with a kill switch. That's just terrible, terrible long term planning for possible short term gain.

If poser had started with a kill switch or as subscription I would not have even considered buying the software or any of the content that it requires. My first 3D experience would have been DAZ all the way.

I'd like to know how my name got included when I never replied to this post?????? I've replied on this thread but not to this post....

When it all comes down to it, it is my own responsibility to maintain security of my own computer. I have never been hacked on any of my machines, it only happened once on my Yahoo account. I have my main machine online all the time and I have the proper precautions when I am online. I don't mind the phone home feature or subscription model software because they are market reactions to how needs evolve and trends arise. In the 21st century there are already huge changes to how we interpret digital rights and how software is distributed and I expect more to come. Renderosity owned Poser only since September of this year. I am willing to give them a bit more time to sort this out. Hopefully they conduct market research and look at more consumer opinions than just what forum users say here. We are a tiny minority.

I am not afraid of being hacked, but what happens if Renderosity goes out of business for some reason? I could be left with a non-working Poser 11 program, and also my investment in content for Poser 11 is useless. It won't work in earlier versions of Poser and as far as I know there isn't any other program that could use it either.

The going out of business issue is always there, it was there since any program existed. Poser has changed hands quite a number of times since its inception. One solution I saw in the past was when the company declared bankruptcy they made the software open source. One hopes any responsible company would follow responsible practices like that: a going out of business event is not an one minute to the next event, unless you are dealing with scammers. I would think Bondware is not that.

consumer573

There is a difference between someone using a free program and someone using a paid for program for free. The latter is demonstrating that they do not believe that to be theft, or do not care, either way it still suggests they would have no qualms about using pirated content.

If you are suggesting Bondware giving away poser, that is entirely a different business model, but I would imagine initial losses could be significant before any increase in content sales appear.

I believe that a huge damage already has been done, my guess is that allot of people search when confronted with such a situation like the actual call home feature and taking down the 11.1 versions for alternative way's and they find it quick in Google . the search will not only answer there request and give them a solution it will lead them to places where they will get most of Poser content for free !!!

Renderosity will not get a damage as they earn for each and every sale a 50% it works cumulative , the artist has the whole work from creating publishing etc and will get the other half for all hes work unique ( Not cumulative ) he will be the looser and believe me None will give a darn about it ! there are almost no new product that are skipped.

For most Customers Poser is a luxury they have barely the possibility to afford it once in a while they will make them selves a little present to keep smiling ... get the feeling to also be an artist. believe me I have allot of such persons on my site and I help where I can to make em happy without ripping em off !

But this system here is a ripp off! more and more trying to get every dime out of the creators and the customer's Pocket. trying to get control of them but the result will rather be a Bumerang then a Profitable strategy.

My thoughts : all my new creations depend on the mood of Renderosity even my Site! will they support Poser, will they shut it down, will I have to Pay every month to have all my work of the last decade still working , Believe me I am not at all willing to do so !

where do you think that the fiances come from for Poser they come from these 50% taken from creators and now it es also abused with a call home to control the feeding hands as a great thank you ( Well sorry Smith micro did it ) do you really believe this ?

you little Creator will not even earn enough to Pay your Bills while they laugh at you driving there high end cars and living in a Palace. If you ask them a simple question tell them your worries they will ignore you, If they answer it will be like spitting in your face as they do not care, they care only about increasing there Income and prosperity.

movida posted at 2:07PM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371763

consumer573 posted at 7:46AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371757

movida posted at 7:26AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4368355

Mythocentric posted at 6:16AM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368349

Hi Rhia474.

(1) "... However, that purchase came with impediments in the form of SM's unfortunate decision to impose its 'phone-home' feature which I believe was originally applied with the intention of putting certain versions of Poser on a subscription-only basis. That feature has been perpetuated and inherited by Bondware. Not an ideal situation and clearly a feature which is detested by many as countless posts here can attest both long before and after Bondwares purchase. That situation is further exacerbated when that feature is not only retained but extended from approximately once a month to every nine days with the added threat of purchasers losing access to the program they have purchased if they do not comply. I would remind you that we are talking about a permanent license here and that has a meaning in legal terms, in fact, at some point in the future could result in a legal challenge being mounted. (I should insert at this point that this is something I have verified with my lawyers, not with the intention of doing so but as a hypothetical test in order to be sure of my facts!) ..."

(2) ** Agreed.** In addition, you'd think that the existence of a viable alternative that is not crippled by phone home would lend itself to a little "eye opening" on the part of the new owners. I do not use any Adobe products newer than CS6 (the last non phone home), I won't use Substance for the same reason. I don't care what app it is nor how much I love it, if they go "subscription" (i.e., analyzing, location, perusing your personal computer, collecting personal data etc., the truth of it) I'm out. Period."

(3) I never buy subscription software unless (a) business requires it and I can make more money on the software than it costs for the subscription [think Adobe's near monopoly of the professional graphic illustrator's market] (b) it is subscribe to own, making the monthly cost very low, and the software permanently available as long as I have a system to run it. Poser is unusual in that it is not normally run as a stand alone software but instead needs the content that Renderosity provides. It should NEVER be a subscription software with a kill switch. That's just terrible, terrible long term planning for possible short term gain.

If poser had started with a kill switch or as subscription I would not have even considered buying the software or any of the content that it requires. My first 3D experience would have been DAZ all the way.

I'd like to know how my name got included when I never replied to this post?????? I've replied on this thread but not to this post....

Movida, I quoted your post number 4368655 on page one. When the paragraphs ran together I wanted to make sure it was clear there were 3 different parties talking so I numbered them 1, 2, and 3. Otherwise it looked like my commentary was part of speaker number 2. At least in the preview draft section.

Nails60 posted at 2:16PM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371783

consumer573,

There is a difference between someone using a free program and someone using a paid for program for free. The latter is demonstrating that they do not believe that to be theft, or do not care, either way it still suggests they would have no qualms about using pirated content.

If you are suggesting Bondware giving away poser, that is entirely a different business model, but I would imagine initial losses could be significant before any increase in content sales appear.

I see your distinction. It was/is not my intent to get into an ethical argument. I do believe that the majority of people who are going to use Poser are ethical and would buy a legitimate copy of Poser if they felt the price was fair. I also believe that the business situation as it exists suggests that if people felt the price of Poser was unfair they would be more likely to just download a legitimate version on DAZ. So my conclusion is that any leakage of Poser software due to piracy would be rather small compared to other industries like music and movies. If the success of this niche business game is as I believe, namely marketshare, then I believe more would be won by getting as many copies of Poser out there as possible rather than spending monies and personnel time policing it and dealing with the effects of kill switches.

In my personal case, should my game developer die and there is still a kill switch in Poser software, that is the end of the line for Poser with me. I'm going DAz. There I will be legitimate and not have a capricious software to deal with. I'm fed up with it. And I already own Poser 11.

consumer573 posted at 2:37PM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371792

movida posted at 2:07PM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371763

consumer573 posted at 7:46AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371757

movida posted at 7:26AM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4368355

Mythocentric posted at 6:16AM Sat, 26 October 2019 - #4368349

Hi Rhia474.

I'd like to know how my name got included when I never replied to this post?????? I've replied on this thread but not to this post....

Movida, I quoted your post number 4368655 on page one. When the paragraphs ran together I wanted to make sure it was clear there were 3 different parties talking so I numbered them 1, 2, and 3. Otherwise it looked like my commentary was part of speaker number 2. At least in the preview draft section.

Thanks :) I thought I was posting while buzzed :)

Just as a point of fact: I know quite a few people who have had their initial introduction to one software program or another through using a pirated version and are now paying users for decades.

I'm Brazilian. Software piracy here is rampant, so much so that some people will mock you for purchasing software or games.

I can tell you for sure that phone-home or other such security measures only annoy legit users - piracy users apply a crack and go, never bothered by it again. So... I'm partial with doing away with the phone-home too.

But it's their software, I guess. I can't imagine their reasons.

(Also: yes, I also know a bunch of people who started out with pirated stuff then migrated to legit forever. Sometimes it's a matter of learning better and trying not to break laws, other times it's a matter of appreciating the work put into creating the software/games. Other times, when it's a smaller company, it's about helping them not go broke because the person wants them to keep updating/creating things.)

Honestly the only case of success I've seen against piracy is Steam and Netflix: they've made the pay worth the less trouble. It's cheap, you do everything in the comfort of your home, you get practicity, and good costumer service, instead of going to sketchy sites where you can download viruses, trying to find the latest version, trying to find a crack that works, trying to find (in case of movies) the actual movie and not a porn knock-off (... happened to someone I know and it was hilarious)... The practicity beats the not having to pay. I think that's the only way of fighting piracy, in all honesty.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Bill Gates (Microsoft) used the warez groups to beta test all the windows operating systems - now he's playing the benevolent philanthropist

I have seen all these great support of Creators adding there creations to make Poser Interesting , they invested allot of time giving Bondware a great Present to have a great start of, these Artists " Creators " make free Publicity for Renderosity For Poser , they support where they can without expecting any thank you !

They Increased the Poser Library by 8 gig woow all free all for Renderosity , they Pay a fee of 50 % of there work to rent a little space in a store, they support Poser help Newbies understand and solve Problems ... All For Free ... this is a Phenomenon but what do you get for it ... do you get understanding do you get any thank you " NO " the only thing you get is to realize that you are just a cheap Slave of the owner of Poser " Hey be happy we give you the opportunity to use Poser "

I think that there is not much respect for what the Artists do , rather a disrespect by adding such restrictions and making them depend on a call home that might be one day to force a Monthly payment in addition of 50% fee to sell an item !

I know how much work it is to make a freebie but think of it ... who did them !!! who is giving out free stuff !!?? and who is not !! normaly it is a give and take but how it seems now it is just a take " They will advertise >>> We give you the new Poser for 99$ with 8 gig of content < " so you just gave them more Power with these gifts . Ask them for a favor and they will Ignore you no matter how small it will be !

Sure give them time ... give them gifts .... offer them your time your life ... will they do the same for you ?

Black Friday well who gives the gifts ? Is it the creator or is it Renderosity ? the answer is it is the Creator ! Renderosity does not give gifts they gift what others did nothing else.

gate posted at 7:26PM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371821

They Increased the Poser Library by 8 gig woow all free all for Renderosity , they Pay a fee of 50 % of there work to rent a little space in a store, they support Poser help Newbies understand and solve Problems ... All For Free ... this is a Phenomenon but what do you get for it ... do you get understanding do you get any thank you " NO " the only thing you get is to realize that you are just a cheap Slave of the owner of Poser " Hey be happy we give you the opportunity to use Poser "

I think that there is not much respect for what the Artists do , rather a disrespect by adding such restrictions and making them depend on a call home that might be one day to force a Monthly payment in addition of 50% fee to sell an item !

No.

Don't you dare.

Seriously, don't USE us to speak for your agenda and don't PRETEND you respect us while you claim we're SLAVES.

We know very well what we're doing. We understand the costs of mantaining a website of this size, of keeping it working, of testing the products, of creating all advertising, of providing technical support. And that's a 40% for them when you're an exclusive vendor, too.

A lot of artists are out there selling t-shirts to earn back 5% of the revenue. A lot of artists are out there drawing comic books for a 1% of royalties. Just don't.

Don't pretend you respect us while you claim we're stupid and being used. Just stop.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

If you hate Renderostity so much... we have a saying here in Brazil: the door out is on the house.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

@ Afrodite-Ohki

I do not hate Renderosity ! I feel sorry on how they treat there feeding hands ... to make a change you have to mention your thoughts else there will never be any . they will think " it is ok the way it is " as no one say's anything ! you should know better as you are from brazil until 1985 under dictatorship.

Do you have a own site with store ? and if can you advertise here ? but if you sure can advertise for Renderosity ? see they would expect others to advertise for them but never advertise for others it always will go on one direction . sure you get 60% if it is exclusive but then you can not even sell it privately on your own site ! you will not get what you deserved for the whole work !

No doubt it is your decision no one forcing you but i Know how you feel every month when you realize how much that little space cost's for all you done, would it be a little more it would be helpfull for your bills as you work really hard for your creations.

these are not your words Oki these are words they use ! the door out is on the house, if you don't like it then just go !

I am not selling here I just feel baad for others that are not treated the way they deserve to be treated that's all.

@Afrodite-Ohki About the Costs .... Most tecnical support is given by private for free ... Product testing Freelancer they get the Product for free you do not even know who it is after the testing period they even get some free presents of there choice from other vendors in most cases ... 3D users scream for such a job to access new stuff for free . Advertising mostly free from users that own a website and Creators or Consumers.

I am not pretending that you are stupid I rather think that yo are intelligent, you just think that you have no other choice ! the easy way is not always the best way.

Are you seriously

SERIOUSLY

HONEST TO GOD

comparing an online brokery site for digital goods

to an ACTUAL DICTATORSHIP?

No. I'm done.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

I lived in a communist country. My grandparents were almost killed by them and the only reason my grandfather was let go was that my grandma knew the police captain and refused to leave his office until they let her husband go. He lost his job as a minister and his home and loaded coal wagons for years.

I am done here as well. Seriously done. WtF???

If you were reading the whole not only what is psychologically affecting your personal issues you would not pretend that I said it would be a dictatorship in here. These are your words not mine Oki :) I said that your Country was under dictatorship until 1985 ... well so much for reading things LOL

so see it is your choice to go out the door not mine everyone can chose he's own path.

Now it's "my personal issues".

Look up "gaslighting".

Now I'm out of this conversation before I say something that would likely get me banned.

(Meanwhile, you might look into trying to get your tinfoil hat off.)

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

ok did not know this expression tinfoil Hat

What does it mean to wear a tinfoil hat? Saying someone is "wearing a tin foil hat" or "is a tin foil hat" means that they have paranoia or a belief in conspiracy theories, especially involving government surveillance or paranormal beings. Originally, the term referred to the practice of wearing headgear consisting of metal foil to block mind-reading.

I do not think that I have any Paranoia or believe in conspiracy when I bring up facts ... you should know better then that and also your "gaslighting" comment is a little out of place here as there were no comments directed to you personally you rather seem the one to attack others personally . I do not understand your way of Interpretation in an global argument taking things Personally " unless you would be somehow involved "

"Please quote where I am Personally Aggressin you " and by any means if you feel somehow personally attacked it was not my purpose

movida posted at 3:19AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371812

Just as a point of fact: I know quite a few people who have had their initial introduction to one software program or another through using a pirated version and are now paying users for decades.

To quote movida, again, I agree with the above. I may be dating myself, but I remember years ago we had the Adobe Illustrator package and the upgrades were getting pricey. There's no way you could buy and test all the packages (even then they were always like $399 even on sale) so someone gave my dad copies of Corel Draw2 floppys (yes, that's how long ago). We wound up buying the full version of Corel Draw 3 (which I still have complete with it's really well done manuals, and floppys transferred to dvd), and even though we don't do every upgrade cycle (maybe one in three) we're still legit Corel users to this day. Moreover that got us hooked on the Corel video Studio, too.

If it hadn't been for those floppys, I don't know. We probably would have found something open source. We would have dropped Adobe in any event. It just cost too much and we weren't professional users.

So, in a nod to Ohki, the phone home routine just makes it more of a hassle for legit users the same way raising the price of the software does. And, again, Poser is not a stand alone program. It really depends upon the artist content, and vice versa. Over the long term, why on earth would anyone continue buying hundreds or thousands of dollars of artist content if they had an unreliable program that could quit any day?

Well, one ansewr: If you're online it's transparent to you so you don't care. But then one day you encounter a glitch, maybe you bought a new computer or ipad, or maybe you're in the middle of working on something and exicted to go finish it...and then can't access Poser when you expect to. You go through hoops to get it re-started, maybe half a day, maybe a week, you have to PROVE you're a legit owner (where is that serial number? why doesn't the help desk write back? should I wait or go out now?) and it strikes you how much you've spent as a Dazaholic, or Renderhead, or whatever, and you come to a conclusion: that you're sooo stupid to have bought all that content that could be cut off so easily.

In the current business envrionment, that's when you slap your head and say "I should've gone DAZ!"

So I fight for Poser.

I guess the bottom line and answer to the question I initially posted, is that there IS a kill swtich. Flexible, but still there. That means if Poser and Daz permanently go separate ways, when it becomes obvious I'm investing in content for which there is no alternative to run but on unreliable Poser, I have to limit my investment. Right now I'm mostly V4 characters which work on both. And static content which can be transferred through OBJs. I didn't do Daz gen because they didn't work on Poser, and as of this minute I don't do DAZ. If LaFemme won't run on Daz, and if Bondware continues this kill switch nonsense, I have to think about future content purchases very hard.

consumer573 posted at 4:21AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371870

So, in a nod to Ohki, the phone home routine just makes it more of a hassle for legit users the same way raising the price of the software does. And, again, Poser is not a stand alone program. It really depends upon the artist content, and vice versa. Over the long term, why on earth would anyone continue buying hundreds or thousands of dollars of artist content if they had an unreliable program that could quit any day?

Well, one ansewr: If you're online it's transparent to you so you don't care. But then one day you encounter a glitch, maybe you bought a new computer or ipad, or maybe you're in the middle of working on something and exicted to go finish it...and then can't access Poser when you expect to. You go through hoops to get it re-started, maybe half a day, maybe a week, you have to PROVE you're a legit owner (where is that serial number? why doesn't the help desk write back? should I wait or go out now?) and it strikes you how much you've spent as a Dazaholic, or Renderhead, or whatever, and you come to a conclusion: that you're sooo stupid to have bought all that content that could be cut off so easily.

In the current business envrionment, that's when you slap your head and say "I should've gone DAZ!"

So I fight for Poser.

For the record, piracy, even in the real world, does exist. I know people who have stolen cable TV, water, and even electricity. They "jailbreak" Roku to get free streaming. It doesn't make it right.

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

One final comment. Nails60 in post 4371759 on page 2 asked me a provocative question on Piracy. I was discussing the Poser software, but there is a separate issue. Whatever happens with Poser software, artist content needs to be fervently, if not viciously protected from Piracy. If you're going to set up a policing issue I feel that's really where it should be. It might be that Daz and Bondware sometime somewhere set up a joint team to curb free copying or trade of artist content. Keeping price low and volume high of content and software will make this easier. Creating things you can do (3D printing) with artist content will help. That means pump out that Daz and Poser software.

EClark1894 posted at 4:49AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

consumer573 posted at 4:21AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371870

So, in a nod to Ohki, the phone home routine just makes it more of a hassle for legit users the same way raising the price of the software does. And, again, Poser is not a stand alone program. It really depends upon the artist content, and vice versa. Over the long term, why on earth would anyone continue buying hundreds or thousands of dollars of artist content if they had an unreliable program that could quit any day?

Well, one ansewr: If you're online it's transparent to you so you don't care. But then one day you encounter a glitch, maybe you bought a new computer or ipad, or maybe you're in the middle of working on something and exicted to go finish it...and then can't access Poser when you expect to. You go through hoops to get it re-started, maybe half a day, maybe a week, you have to PROVE you're a legit owner (where is that serial number? why doesn't the help desk write back? should I wait or go out now?) and it strikes you how much you've spent as a Dazaholic, or Renderhead, or whatever, and you come to a conclusion: that you're sooo stupid to have bought all that content that could be cut off so easily.

In the current business envrionment, that's when you slap your head and say "I should've gone DAZ!"

So I fight for Poser.

For the record, piracy, even in the real world, does exist. I know people who have stolen cable TV, water, and even electricity. They "jailbreak" Roku to get free streaming. It doesn't make it right.

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

Earl, I'm saying I feel bondware is trying to set up a dam to curtail piracy. I believe you can spend that effort, but this is a niche market. Direct the flow rather than set up a dam to get a bigger market for artist products which is where I believe Bondware's real business model is supposed to be, isn't it?

BTW Please don't goad Gate. :) He's passionate.

@ EClark1894 It is obvious that I pay for the website but it is not a budget breaker now day's for hosting I got my self a Lifetime membership . So if I pay for something I sure want to get what I pay for , guess it is common sense. ( I have a good sense for the ones who have Less for the ones who have more and for sure I would not ripp of one who has issues Paying hes bill ) We have enough egoists in this world I think I do not want to be one of them.

I actually never experienced a thing like it happen with bond-ware " There was a glitch at the time with the activation of Poser 11.1 that the licence got corrupted through the setup room " Smith Micro gave me support at the time and removed the activation on my Computer "

This Support will never happen again as we can see. well for the ones who have a legit licence it would not matter how they activate there Poser versions and I guess in such a case one would bet better help from a Hacker then from Bondware.

The thing is also that I am sure that my Personal Info and account with Licence got sold to Bondware then how would they of known and send me a Mail. actually it is Smith micro that would had to give notification but not posersoftware. I have no account there and could not make any. I am not sure how you feel about this but if it is ok for you that your Personal Info is sold out it is your thing , some others do not really like such a facts. ( For me it gives me the feeling that way more got Pirated then just a 3D Product ) If I see one of my Products out there I don't make it a big deal. But this case here is leading that someone is trying to make Profit with my Personal info and Licence. this would sure be an other kind of Piracy but still Piracy.

consumer573 posted at 1:05PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371879

EClark1894 posted at 4:49AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

consumer573 posted at 4:21AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371870

So, in a nod to Ohki, the phone home routine just makes it more of a hassle for legit users the same way raising the price of the software does. And, again, Poser is not a stand alone program. It really depends upon the artist content, and vice versa. Over the long term, why on earth would anyone continue buying hundreds or thousands of dollars of artist content if they had an unreliable program that could quit any day?

Well, one ansewr: If you're online it's transparent to you so you don't care. But then one day you encounter a glitch, maybe you bought a new computer or ipad, or maybe you're in the middle of working on something and exicted to go finish it...and then can't access Poser when you expect to. You go through hoops to get it re-started, maybe half a day, maybe a week, you have to PROVE you're a legit owner (where is that serial number? why doesn't the help desk write back? should I wait or go out now?) and it strikes you how much you've spent as a Dazaholic, or Renderhead, or whatever, and you come to a conclusion: that you're sooo stupid to have bought all that content that could be cut off so easily.

In the current business envrionment, that's when you slap your head and say "I should've gone DAZ!"

So I fight for Poser.

For the record, piracy, even in the real world, does exist. I know people who have stolen cable TV, water, and even electricity. They "jailbreak" Roku to get free streaming. It doesn't make it right.

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

Earl, I'm saying I feel bondware is trying to set up a dam to curtail piracy. I believe you can spend that effort, but this is a niche market. Direct the flow rather than set up a dam to get a bigger market for artist products which is where I believe Bondware's real business model is supposed to be, isn't it?

BTW Please don't goad Gate. :) He's passionate.

Not sure if anyone chooses to put in copy protection without reason, its a barrier for paying customers too when it breaks and takes up support time that could be better spent on fixing more useful things. Developing the software takes money. If Poser was free and and new dev was funded by the content market I'd be laughing as I don't buy much content but this approach does not seem good to me. Reducing the amount of money going into dev by dropping the license fee will reduce the number of enhancements and bug fixes so we all lose out in the long term. Maybe there is scope to mix the two approaches, someone who buys x amount of content get's poser free.

Posers user base needs to be expanded. Nothing being argued about on these forums will do that. If I were Bondware, I'd release say, Poser 2012 limited in that it would NOT accept any updates, in the warez groups (along with a "read me" delineating the major advances in later versions.). Yup, that's what I'd do. Some certain percentage of those downloaders will ultimately buy it, it'd be free for Bondware. Call it community outreach. That Poser 2012 isn't going to be bought by anyone today anyway.

EClark1894 posted at 7:50AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

consumer573 posted at 4:21AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371870

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

That was really below the belt.

Here's the history of warez. A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away when programmers wrote programs for the early computers (even before home pc's existed), as soon as they were finished and the program, o.s. or whatever was fully functional, the corporation they were employed by would lock them out of their offices, change the door locks, terminate them and steal their work. Now, in an effort to fight back these aforementioned programmers (worldwide I might add) released their stuff online before the corporation was aware it was finished. Hence "showing my wares" or "warez".

EClark1894 posted at 9:06AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

Given that everything ON the site is ripped game models, I would have to say that's a very valid question.

It takes some real brass ones to come into a website, preach a sermon about copy protection, explain how to break copy protection, and then use the very vendors who sell legitimate, LEGAL products as pawns in his little game.

My only question is why does this common thief still have an account here?

movida posted at 10:44AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371886

EClark1894 posted at 7:50AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

consumer573 posted at 4:21AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371870

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

That was really below the belt.

I didn't think so, although to be honest, if he was, I fully expect him not to tell me.

Truly, I think Gate's a good guy. He's really working that Jack Nicholson avatar though. It suits him.

Glitterati3D posted at 3:50PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371888

EClark1894 posted at 9:06AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

Given that everything ON the site is ripped game models, I would have to say that's a very valid question.

It takes some real brass ones to come into a website, preach a sermon about copy protection, explain how to break copy protection, and then use the very vendors who sell legitimate, LEGAL products as pawns in his little game.

My only question is why does this common thief still have an account here?

My question would be why does Renderosity allow accusations of this nature on their forums, legally you stand the risk of being prosecuted for Libel.

tparo posted at 11:09AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371894

Glitterati3D posted at 3:50PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371888

EClark1894 posted at 9:06AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

Given that everything ON the site is ripped game models, I would have to say that's a very valid question.

It takes some real brass ones to come into a website, preach a sermon about copy protection, explain how to break copy protection, and then use the very vendors who sell legitimate, LEGAL products as pawns in his little game.

My only question is why does this common thief still have an account here?

My question would be why does Renderosity allow accusations of this nature on their forums, legally you stand the risk of being prosecuted for Libel.

Bring it. See you in court.

Glitterati3D posted at 4:11PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371898

tparo posted at 11:09AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371894

Glitterati3D posted at 3:50PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371888

EClark1894 posted at 9:06AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

Given that everything ON the site is ripped game models, I would have to say that's a very valid question.

It takes some real brass ones to come into a website, preach a sermon about copy protection, explain how to break copy protection, and then use the very vendors who sell legitimate, LEGAL products as pawns in his little game.

My only question is why does this common thief still have an account here?

My question would be why does Renderosity allow accusations of this nature on their forums, legally you stand the risk of being prosecuted for Libel.

Bring it. See you in court.

Why me? What do you think I have done that would land me in court.

tparo posted at 11:36AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371899

Glitterati3D posted at 4:11PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371898

tparo posted at 11:09AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371894

Glitterati3D posted at 3:50PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371888

EClark1894 posted at 9:06AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

Given that everything ON the site is ripped game models, I would have to say that's a very valid question.

It takes some real brass ones to come into a website, preach a sermon about copy protection, explain how to break copy protection, and then use the very vendors who sell legitimate, LEGAL products as pawns in his little game.

My only question is why does this common thief still have an account here?

My question would be why does Renderosity allow accusations of this nature on their forums, legally you stand the risk of being prosecuted for Libel.

Bring it. See you in court.

Why me? What do you think I have done that would land me in court.

You're the one who brought it up. Or were you just shooting off your mouth with no intention of backing it up?

I was simple pointing out that accusations of the kind you made are not only offensive but also can lead to legal prosecutions. I don't know where you are from but in my country people are innocent until proven guilty. Why are you so very aggressive towards some posters. I should have known better than to have posted here, your venom spoils it for a lot of people and I really wonder if you realise how much harm you do Renderosity along with Poser. Such insulting hostile behavior must scare off potential customers and newcomers, it certainly puts me off learning and using Poser more.

Why would what Tracy thinks and says keep you from learning and using Poser? I have some issues with DAZ and with DS, itself, but nothing anyone who uses it, says, thinks or feels, would put me off using and learning it.

Glitterati3D posted at 5:36PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371888

EClark1894 posted at 9:06AM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371875

BTW, gate, I do have you listed in my Directory as a vendor owned website. Considering how you obviously feel about paying for stuff, do you pay for that website, or is it pirated?

Given that everything ON the site is ripped game models, I would have to say that's a very valid question.

It takes some real brass ones to come into a website, preach a sermon about copy protection, explain how to break copy protection, and then use the very vendors who sell legitimate, LEGAL products as pawns in his little game.

My only question is why does this common thief still have an account here

I guess it is because it is only you that is pretending such , I know that you have for whatever reason some issues with me and I do not ask that you have to like me or have an affair with me , for sure a witch hunt would not be very appropriate for your frustrations . If I really were like you pretend such a Mafiosi then I probably would be your worst nightmare . I Probably am already your Nightmare but it is what you are making out of it :)

the easy way to argue is to say, Frow em out, get rid of them , Kill them ... but will you be able to hold the gun , or are you the one who tries to tell others to do so? I forgive you Glitterati3D as you are no match wen it comes to arguments you never were.

@ Glitterati3D I guess you hang around at DA TA FR CG now tell me if Fan Art would be as illegal as you Pretend would they still be here ? would renderosity be here ? would Daz still runn he's site. I guess not ! they would shut down Poser shut down DS and most of these Sites .. you should not frequent such places as hey ... they have fan Art and it is Ilegal .. they are all Pirates you know ! exploitation of the world that is how Humans are !

tparo posted at 12:37PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371904

I was simple pointing out that accusations of the kind you made are not only offensive but also can lead to legal prosecutions. I don't know where you are from but in my country people are innocent until proven guilty. Why are you so very aggressive towards some posters. I should have known better than to have posted here, your venom spoils it for a lot of people and I really wonder if you realise how much harm you do Renderosity along with Poser. Such insulting hostile behavior must scare off potential customers and newcomers, it certainly puts me off learning and using Poser more.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha, your dislike for Poser and Poser users has been loud and clear for years.

I don't know who you think you're fooling but this isn't the Hivewire forums.

Actually all these arguments that at the end will just be some forgotten notes in a forum are eating up allot of time that I could use to make some models. since all the changes I sure lost allot of time and spend more time in here then on creativity. I guess it is the worries a loss of trust on the ones who have Poser. there is allot to loose actually more then could be gained, as no one hears you Bondware as well Smith Micro do not really care.

@ EClark1894 I also have my issues with DS and actually having a hard time " Moral " to get into it ... I have a little basic in it as I had to check how it worked to make sure what is compatible. Meanwhile I got the Installers so I can get over it and spend once in a while an eye on it. Sure there might be some restrictions compared to Poser but like in Poser it can be solved as I also had to figure out some alternative actions to improve the modeling . It is not the Program it is me " Stubborn sitting on Poser " Life is a learning process and if a change would solve problems and issues why not ? at least if I give it a shoot I can keep it aside so if I ever would jump it would not be to high , I would know the basics and not end up into frustrations ....

Hey we have to admit some of there models look awesome Poser can't give any match at the moment and will probably not be able to catch up on what is offered we just have to face reality, not letting things get old like we are but get you younger thing to keep us young . If a Fundament gets destroyed it will not be possible to build a House on it. Keeping the Older poser versions to make things DS can not like a Plugin to export them as Daz models like with other Programs it is all only a question about willing to learn and find alternative ways if something does not work anymore the way we were used to it.

Glitterati3D posted at 6:21PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371916

tparo posted at 12:37PM Sun, 01 December 2019 - #4371904

I was simple pointing out that accusations of the kind you made are not only offensive but also can lead to legal prosecutions. I don't know where you are from but in my country people are innocent until proven guilty. Why are you so very aggressive towards some posters. I should have known better than to have posted here, your venom spoils it for a lot of people and I really wonder if you realise how much harm you do Renderosity along with Poser. Such insulting hostile behavior must scare off potential customers and newcomers, it certainly puts me off learning and using Poser more.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha, your dislike for Poser and Poser users has been loud and clear for years.

I don't know who you think you're fooling but this isn't the Hivewire forums.

I dislike Poser because I struggle with it I have several version of Poser, 8, 9, 10 and 11 everytime I hope I will be able to figure it out but the most basic things seem like a struggle, I'm unlikely to be asking for help when I get attacked everytime I post in the Poser forums, and I don't see what Hivewire has to do with anything.

@Glitterati3D I think based on your arguments that you rather try to Flame then to be of any part of a Discussion , I am not sure what your aiming is. sure you can cause that a thread gets closed but that is not very Productive at any means it is just Primitive. compared to most with some little exceptions you have not brought up any reasonable text concerning any of the Arguments or thoughts in here. It is not the first time I have seen you act this way as soon as you get the feeling that it is not in your interest you start to attack and Provocate Members of the forums. I remember that this method was common in here a few years ago for the ones who tried to get a thread shut down but for sure it is not the right solution.

there are many concerns in such threads , thoughts of People who take there time to write them down , not saying that they are wrong or right but they might be Important for some . Also I might be wrong I might be right , it does not matter they are thought arguments and there is no need for someone who tries to destroy it all in any possible way. I do not believe that you are a Borderline that actually would be excused for hes behavior.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Does Rendo's Poser 11.2 Allow working offline?