https://www.posersoftware.com/article/439/whats-planned-for-poser-pro-113

W10, Ryzen 5 1600x, 16Gb,RTX2060Super+GTX980, PP11, 11.3.740

Hmm. no word on whether Poser will still "phone home". Going forward or not, I have to say that will be a major selling point for me.

As I've said on another thread not happy with the idea of the in app download manager replacing the install from zip archive function. I might be proven wrong, but unless it allows you to download zip files to wherever you want and to install content in whatever runtimes you want, it would not be a function I would want to use. And what about content purchased from places other than Rendo? Just have to wait and see I suppose, but not optimistic.

Remember when we had the "Content Room" and shortly thereafter the instructions on how to remove same?

And no news on OptiX or RTX support or rather Turing support

Thanks, Jura

i always manually install the files where i want them, because in years past the files would always loud in the wrong run-time file and or files.

722 posted at 10:22PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371471

i always manually install the files where i want them, because in years past the files would always loud in the wrong run-time file and or files.

I always do the same as well, so if won't be able to download the zip files, and manually install them, it will be a cold day in hell when I next update PP11.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

From what I've read about the download manager, I don't think you're going to be forced to use it to get content into Poser. It seems to be a counterpart to the DAZ Download Manager. Or am I missing some obvious subtext?

No plans to do away with current "Install from ZIP File" feature. The idea is to simplify the current purchase/download/install experience for new or casual users.

tim posted at 10:50PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371482

No plans to do away with current "Install from ZIP File" feature. The idea is to simplify the current purchase/download/install experience for new or casual users.

Uh, you sure about that?

"The main purpose of the download manager is on downloading and installing content and script purchases. It also replaces Poser's "Install from ZIP file" method of installing purchases with an easier method."

That does not mean you can't install manually, which is ultimately the best way to control your own purchases and computer.

Also, the announcement has only been out a few hours and look at all the immediate negativity. No wonder people are soured on this forum. No one has anything positive to say? Really?

I am excited about the mention of fitting room improvements and more detailed instructions on how to use some rooms that could use said details. Thank you.

This one does not spark joy.

I wouldn't worry about this - it's just been poorly worded. If they wanted to remove the ability to install from a zip, what would that mean for adding existing runtimes? Apart from the fact that preventing people installing content that way would require a lot of costly programming, it would wipe out a large chunk of the user base - they wouldn't be doing either. If memory serves, you can install from a zip within Poser and I would imagine that's the facility that's getting changed.

An improvement to content installation and management would be very welcome.

And the guy figure? History has it the males are not attracting much support so if he can surf on the support for his older sister, much better. I hope the morph solution will allow to make the change gradual. I have no need for another 'superhero' in my runtimes. If I ever use a male I prefer the more feminine type.

jura11 posted at 7:16AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371470

And no news on OptiX or RTX support or rather Turing support

Thanks, Jura.

.
The whole GPU code could do with some love. The weird 1080ti performance issue and the crashes at higher render speeds could indicate some flaw that has implications for faster cards in general even if RTX support was added.

Technically, I believe that Dusk is a morph of Dawn. Or at least, Chris used the mesh as his base. The only thing that concerns me is that they had the V4 male, and that didn't work out so well.

EClark1894 posted at 6:03AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371516

Technically, I believe that Dusk is a morph of Dawn. Or at least, Chris used the mesh as his base. The only thing that concerns me is that they had the V4 male, and that didn't work out so well.

Dawn, Dusk and Baby Luna are all the same mesh. Sharing textures and morphs is one of the customers' favorite things about the Hivewire figures.

DS never had anything approximating the Morph Bush which makes using an androgynous figure much more viable than anything 15 years old.

Rhia474 posted at 9:33AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371486

Also, the announcement has only been out a few hours and look at all the immediate negativity. No wonder people are soured on this forum. No one has anything positive to say? Really?

I am excited about the mention of fitting room improvements and more detailed instructions on how to use some rooms that could use said details. Thank you.

This, every single word of this.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

I have always been installing stuff manually including in DAZ Stuido. I simply install the package in a Content directory dedicated to that.Tthen I zup the content directory. Last delete everything for the next installation to come.
Et voilà ! I've got a ready to install ZIP :)
The problem with that lkind of installer is what if the download server gets down, definitely ? Don't forget that the Smith Micro servers let us down in just a few months.
My backups are my best trusted friends.

Appart from this welcome Poser 11.3. Good to have it growing again.

Yarp - author of P3DO Organizer for Poser

release notes?

ironsoul posted at 12:39PM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371502

jura11 posted at 7:16AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371470

And no news on OptiX or RTX support or rather Turing support

Thanks, Jura.

.
The whole GPU code could do with some love. The weird 1080ti performance issue and the crashes at higher render speeds could indicate some flaw that has implications for faster cards in general even if RTX support was added.

Hi there

GTX1080Ti or GTX performance is quite good with older drivers(388.13 or 399.24) what I tested in past, with latest drivers branch like 441.41 or Nvidia Studio Drivers 441.28 which you really want to use when you are using RTX or Turing in Blender 2.81 performance is not the best in my view in other SW where RT cores are not used or when you are using GTX1080Ti or any series of GTX GPUs

Don't update drivers every time when new driver is released its my recommendation, use older drivers like 388.13 or 399.24 if you are using GTX1080Ti, from newest drivers branch Studio 430.86 is probably best

Thanks, Jura

EClark1894 posted at 7:30AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371484

tim posted at 10:50PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371482

No plans to do away with current "Install from ZIP File" feature. The idea is to simplify the current purchase/download/install experience for new or casual users.

Uh, you sure about that?

"The main purpose of the download manager is on downloading and installing content and script purchases. It also replaces Poser's "Install from ZIP file" method of installing purchases with an easier method."

Somebody is reading this forum thread - your quoted text has been deleted from the announcement page. And yes, I remember reading that too this morning.

As for me ... I am watching and waiting for a "no phoning home edition" before I am giving them my money. Or at least only phoning home once and that's it ...

Weekly calls? no thank you.

Apart from that I do have an RTX card, so no Superfly for me anyway.

Luckily I like all of my rendering software (no application wars on my computer, they are peacefully coexisting, LOL), so I can choose which one to use at a given time.

Rhia474 posted at 9:17AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371486

Also, the announcement has only been out a few hours and look at all the immediate negativity. No wonder people are soured on this forum. No one has anything positive to say? Really?

I am excited about the mention of fitting room improvements and more detailed instructions on how to use some rooms that could use said details. Thank you.

Where's the Like button?

For those of you who are have super new graphics cards that superfly can't hand;e yet, you can still render in superfly by using the CPU like us poor slobs who are stuck with the really old video cards. "Good things come to those who wait."

Hearing the installer won't be required is good. And I look forward to seeing the improvements to the fitting room. And instructions for some of the rooms sounds great, thinking of the recent thread on the cloth room, that turned into a train wreck because everyone has their one way to do things, and that wasn't the only thread like that. I look forward to one for the hair room. I want to start making hair again.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Again, I might reading things into it that aren't there, but I think the point of the download manager is merely to direct your content into the proper folder automatically WITHOUT you having to manually put it where you think it should go. Of course, that's more for newbies and people who don't use Poser a lot and so haven't gotten the Runtime structure down pat.

I'm also hoping that Poser will go back to perpetual licenses. Would like to hear someone address that aspect of Poser for the future.

Any love for AMD cards? I guess not..

Re: the new render Wizards... can we have a simple new button on Sketch Designer, please: "Turn off/on all sketching into the background". It would help newbies not to black-screen and crash their Poser, when first trying out and tinkering with the Sketch rendering. They would also discover how deliriously fast a Sketch render can be (seconds, not hours).

---

Learn the Secrets of Poser 11 and Line-art Filters.

Glitterati3D posted at 5:43PM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371518

EClark1894 posted at 6:03AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371516

Technically, I believe that Dusk is a morph of Dawn. Or at least, Chris used the mesh as his base. The only thing that concerns me is that they had the V4 male, and that didn't work out so well.

Dawn, Dusk and Baby Luna are all the same mesh. Sharing textures and morphs is one of the customers' favorite things about the Hivewire figures.

DS never had anything approximating the Morph Bush which makes using an androgynous figure much more viable than anything 15 years old.

Morph bush? Crikey.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery

Really glad to hear that the new team is working on improvements to existing systems. Poser has needed this for a long time. I like the idea of wizards for new users. As an example, the 1st couple of weeks, I didn't understand why all of my renders were black rectangles (which is what happened in Poser 5 if you don't add lights.)

Re: GPU rendering - Turing is a Nvidia Window only solution. That eliminates everyone on OSX and every windows user that has an AMD card.

Suggestion: AMD ProRender Engine. It doesn't care if you use a Nvidia card or an AMD card. It will also use your CPU & Memory along with your GPU and memory as 1 render engine. I am sure the Blender Cycles Engine can be back-ported into Superfly (or we could just dump Superfly and go with Cycles - Superfly is just a port of Cycles). It is both Open-Source and AMD could assist in getting it coded for Poser.

Not liking the new cover. At all. Would prefer something a little more professional looking. Unless of course, the goal to to shrink the Poser base to just those that do pin-up art.

Presentation matters.

What new cover? Did I miss something?

Oh. That one. Please, no. That is emphatically not professional. Agreed.

Rhia474 posted at 12:45PM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371486

Also, the announcement has only been out a few hours and look at all the immediate negativity. No wonder people are soured on this forum. No one has anything positive to say? Really?

I am excited about the mention of fitting room improvements and more detailed instructions on how to use some rooms that could use said details. Thank you.

So True. Look at the Post directly beneath yours. [@4371487](@4371487)

I prefer to install manually all my stuff in Poser and in DAZStudio My experience with DAZ Install manager was very bad I don't like to have an install manager for Poser I hope they put some works to add others import-export formats to Poser

As long as I can open a zip file in a window, open the drive I want to install content on in another window and I can drag and drop into the runtime folder on said drive, I see no need of fancy installers.

Kerya posted at 4:01PM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371532

EClark1894 posted at 7:30AM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371484

tim posted at 10:50PM Wed, 27 November 2019 - #4371482

No plans to do away with current "Install from ZIP File" feature. The idea is to simplify the current purchase/download/install experience for new or casual users.

Uh, you sure about that?

"The main purpose of the download manager is on downloading and installing content and script purchases. It also replaces Poser's "Install from ZIP file" method of installing purchases with an easier method."

Somebody is reading this forum thread - your quoted text has been deleted from the announcement page. And yes, I remember reading that too this morning.

Hah! Well, that's good news. I mean, obviously they can't prevent you from putting files where you want them, but I was worried purchases here would no longer be available in the traditional zip format.

ssgbryan posted at 11:09PM Thu, 28 November 2019 - #4371606

Suggestion: AMD ProRender Engine. It doesn't care if you use a Nvidia card or an AMD card...

You are out of the loop in regards to ProRender. Latest version for MacOS works with AMD cards only. It does not work with CPU only on MacOS (at least the version that comes with C4D, haven’t tested the Blender version). Older versions did not work well with Nvidia cards on MacOS. In short on MacOS its a AMD only solution.

On the other hand, Blender Cycles has support for CPU, CUDA and openCL. On MacOS openCL has been dropped in latest version due to Apple.

Which is why after 20 years, I am saying goodbye to Tim and Apple. Intel is a dead platform for the next few years. Timmy has decided to make Apple irrelevant in the creator marketspace. The upcoming 7,1 Mac Pro will be obsolete the day it actually flops out the door.

It doesn't matter about being an AMD only solution on OSX - there are no Nvidia OSX cards. A few days ago Nvidia officially announced they have dropped support for CUDA on OSX. Add that in with no video drivers for either the 16 series or the 20 series, Nvidia on OSX is moot.

I agree, its obvious why there is no more CUDA and newer WebDrivers for MacOS from Nvidia, isn’t it.

I keep my MacPro 5.1 with HighSierra, which still has CUDA for my Nvidia card, for a few more years…

Where's the new cover? I got curious.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:34AM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371671

Where's the new cover? I got curious.

The link in the first post of this thread.

https://www.posersoftware.com/article/439/whats-planned-for-poser-pro-113

Oh. Ok. Yeah that's a pinup.

My guess is that they just went for the most realistic-like render of La Femme they were allowed to use?

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Could be, I guess, though it doesn't look particularly realistic to me. It's the main promo for the "Tempting La Femme" product in the RMP. The hair texture in particular isn't exactly photoreal.

ssgbryan posted at 12:09PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371642

Which is why after 20 years, I am saying goodbye to Tim and Apple. Intel is a dead platform for the next few years. Timmy has decided to make Apple irrelevant in the creator marketspace. The upcoming 7,1 Mac Pro will be obsolete the day it actually flops out the door.

It doesn't matter about being an AMD only solution on OSX - there are no Nvidia OSX cards. A few days ago Nvidia officially announced they have dropped support for CUDA on OSX. Add that in with no video drivers for either the 16 series or the 20 series, Nvidia on OSX is moot.

All professional 3D/CG artists are leaving the mac platform.

I switched to windows 7 years ago to gain access to Iclone,s character animation software.

I will keep my old Intel Mac until it dies.

however I use my two WINDOWS PC's for all of my character animation work.

apple has become a luxury brand for affluent consumers..good for them.

no hard feelings.

My website

YouTube Channel

What is wrong with Pinup Art? Tempesta3D is one my favorite artists. If he made the cover I'm happy for him.

To the Apple Users, Welcome aboard. Took ya long enough. Best update your virus protection.

Intel isn't dead...but I think AMD might've finally taken the lead.

quietrob posted at 4:57PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371692

What is wrong with Pinup Art? Tempesta3D is one my favorite artists. If he made the cover I'm happy for him.

It's gorgeous art. I guess the worry here is that this "teasing" kind of art in the cover will make Poser look like a tool specifically for sexy pinup only, like so many tools out there. When it can do so much more, even though pinup only is good enough.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

It's not the quality of the art, for goodness' sake, of course its not. It's the message it conveys.

Oh I know I know! I wasn't trying to imply any of us disliked the quality.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Ohki and Rhia, you're two of my favorite artists. I hear you.

On one hand, sexy definitely sells. You show a pretty chick holding a rock and that rock will sell. Sean Martin and I had a laugh over the Sexy Generalettes outfit. (Still putting together a promo for the bundle). But at the same time, you don't want to turn off people like ssgbryan and his backhanded swipe at those who DO like pinup art and like to do pinup at, either exclusively or on occasion. I built a comic with Poser, but I can tell you I got more views when I decided to swimsuit issue like Marvel, Darkhorse or the other comic houses. Some of the views stuck around and turned into fans.

Sigh. I guess the takeaway is we all like Tempesta3D.

Ohki, Your chick holding a sword in front of the Temple should now be accompanied by a chick selling a rock.

quietrob posted at 8:48PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371709

Ohki, Your chick holding a sword in front of the Temple should now be accompanied by a chick selling a rock.

(Oh come on, gif, animate! Meh, here: https://media.giphy.com/media/65ODCwM00NVmEyLsX3/giphy.gif )

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Rhia474 posted at 7:01PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371698

It's not the quality of the art, for goodness' sake, of course its not. It's the message it conveys.

The problem with that mentality is that art is a subjective form of communication. It means something different to whomever looks at it. In other words, it means something different to different people.

Ah, I disagree. Skimpy-dressed pinup lit chick is a genre. I do pinups myself. Hells, I did an entire calendar of pinups once for our game server. But it would be the new version of Poser advertised as a pinup art tool by putting that lovely image on the box.

I think that's what we are trying to say.

Rhia474 posted at 7:51PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371718

Ah, I disagree. Skimpy-dressed pinup lit chick is a genre. I do pinups myself. Hells, I did an entire calendar of pinups once for our game server. But it would be the new version of Poser advertised as a pinup art tool by putting that lovely image on the box.

I think that's what we are trying to say.

Now, it's my turn to disagree. Yes, pinup is a genre, but so is calendar art like cowboys, and firefighters. I happen to admire cowboys and firefighters, but don't want to see one trying to be sexy on my calendar every morning. Now true, Poser can be used for a number of purposes, like courtroom scenes, dragons, checkout lanes at supermarkets, etc. Which one of those tells you how Poser should be advertised?

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 8:11PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371711

quietrob posted at 8:48PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371709

Ohki, Your chick holding a sword in front of the Temple should now be accompanied by a chick selling a rock.

(Oh come on, gif, animate! Meh, here: https://media.giphy.com/media/65ODCwM00NVmEyLsX3/giphy.gif )

Too often I do that while sitting here at the laptop. Makes a mess of my monitor, and sometimes the keyboard.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

I think the cover should showcase what Poser can do within the software. If the current owners feel the best market for the next iteration of Poser is the pinup market with lots of skin and diaphanous veils, it is their software now. If they feel this is to also oppose how the Other Software is positioned, that is a valid marketing strategy. I personally feel it would be a mistake to narrow the audience as such, but I am only one person. We will agree to disagree here, I am afraid.

That's the thing, isn't it? People are going to use Poser for what they want. I initially got into Poser when I was trying to storyboard a screenplay I was writing. I couldn't draw, still not that good at it, but I thought if I could storyboard the screenplay, I'd sell it easier. Never did work out that way. I ended up using it t create stills. Moved from there to comics and so on. But any artwork you put on the cover is only going to showcase one possible way Poser can be used.

I'm not too crazy about software that needs an active internet connection, nor am I a fan of content installers that decide for me where to put my purchases. (I rarely install my stuff where the creators think it should go, and most of it I install in an external runtime on an external hard drive.

Hope Poser is not going overly much in that direction.

Wizards to help you with some of the functionality would be nice, though; that's a good idea.

They've already said the installers were primarily for newbies and casual users.

If it works like the other camp's installer, it should be fine. You should be able to determine where you want the content installed and still have the option of downloading the zip and installing it manually. Remember that automation is a good thing. If you purchase say, five or six items, and have the installer set up correctly, you can sit back and let it do all the work. Great for multitasking. Let's see it in action before we condemn it.

Not a bad idea, Rob. Since it's supposed to be included in the next version of Poser anyway, why not pre-release it and get feedback from users on how it works or how it can be improved.

quietrob posted at 2:59PM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371793

If it works like the other camp's installer, it should be fine. You should be able to determine where you want the content installed and still have the option of downloading the zip and installing it manually.

That's exactly how I used it, as I prefer to install files where I want them, other than those that MUST be placed in the folders they are in within the zip. It's exactly how I install products to Poser as well.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

In another thread, Jenn Blake just delivered the bad news. Going forward, apparently, Bondware has opted to keep the "phone home" licensing. I still love Poser and have several older versions I'll continue to use, but this bit of news could be a game changer for me.

EClark1894 posted at 12:20AM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4371967

In another thread, Jenn Blake just delivered the bad news. Going forward, apparently, Bondware has opted to keep the "phone home" licensing. I still love Poser and have several older versions I'll continue to use, but this bit of news could be a game changer for me.

Thank you.

Any idea which thread that was? I would like to read the official version - and the why ...

Kerya I think EClark is referring to the recently locked thread about using 11.2 offline. I know this is going to sound like a rant but that thread got fairly ugly - its worth considering "phone home" is a form of DRM. DRM is widespread in music, film and software. Bondware did not invent it, nor did they add it to Poser. It's been in Poser for 4/5 years but because SM turned off their licensing servers its become an issue now.

ironsoul posted at 1:29AM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4371974

Kerya I think EClark is referring to the recently locked thread about using 11.2 offline. I know this is going to sound like a rant but that thread got fairly ugly - its worth considering "phone home" is a form of DRM. DRM is widespread in music, film and software. Bondware did not invent it, nor did they add it to Poser. It's been in Poser for 4/5 years but because SM turned off their licensing servers its become an issue now.

Thank you.

Found the post: @4371937

Bye, bye future Poser versions.

As for the DRM: it was an issue for me since GameDev - the reason why I didn't buy the upgrade from PP2014 (and I do have P5, P7, P8, PP2012 and PP2014 - so I DO like Poser).

Bye bye future Poser for me as well.

Guess I'll learn Blender now.

!!Statement Release !! for information's sake...we didn't START The Poser software calling home. That has been in place since Poser Pro 2014. And we intend to continue it. There is a path to extend the time allowed before the software is required to phone home again. But otherwise this is what it is and will not be changing.

It was to be expected and I think that most Knew already " Sometimes we just want to hear the facts "

I support Poser allot even if it is with "Fan Art" I do my best to get Impressive models for Poser and since I do it I even give more then half out for free for a Period of time! This situation is making me feel really baad " Not because I fear that they could shut my SM Poser down as this will not happen " I feel baad for the customers that invest as much as they can by buying models for Poser and have to fear that one day it will say " Game Over " they will loose it all not only Poser but also there whole collections.

especially now that La Femme and future models will not be supported downwards. so for those they better make sure that they invest in products that are downwards compatible or at least with DS . In case of another shut down like the one with Smith Micro " Trust your Instinct " and not in what they tell you to make a Profit.

on my side I feel bad as the models I release are very neat it also makes Publicity For poser , it helps them gain customers for something I do not agree at all. How will I feel if one day my customers will not be able to use what I offered to them because of the Poser owners ?

I know of allot of People that save up for a model as they have not much for a living ! some do not even have a Internet connection at home they go to a Internet Cafe. some can not really afford having a stable internet connection " Even I am not in Possession of a home Internet I use my mobile phone to access it " if I need a better line I have to go to the restaurant !!!

Getting to the Point is ... this system make Sportring costumers depend on that call home feature " Not the Pirates as these do not care " they make sure that there collections can not be Locked by any other instance. If it goes down like it did with SM then the costumers will suffer . And believe me they already search for a Possibility to ensure that there older 11.1 Poser versions can remain activated " It is like the farmer that will take out hes shotgun to protect hes Property " as these for sure do not even want to risc loosing there entire runtimes build in the ast decades. These even invested in expensive Backup drives to Prevent any loss. so how far do you think a collector will go to protect he's stuff ???

Bondware !! what you do is just totally wrong ! towards the Creators and Towards the customers , and now I have to feel baad for every Item I sell towards my customers as I have to tell them that they depend on that Call home Kill Switch using there models in the next decades.

Poser alone is not worth anything if you do not have the Creators for it, if you do not have these to support it , if you loose the ones who teach others how to use it and these who will tell others how great it is . as there will not remain many that will be able to do so with a good conscience

ironsoul posted at 6:20AM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4371974

Kerya I think EClark is referring to the recently locked thread about using 11.2 offline. I know this is going to sound like a rant but that thread got fairly ugly - its worth considering "phone home" is a form of DRM. DRM is widespread in music, film and software. Bondware did not invent it, nor did they add it to Poser. It's been in Poser for 4/5 years but because SM turned off their licensing servers its become an issue now.

It's BEEN an issue since they first introduced it with GAME DEV. I didn't upgrade to Game Dev, I kept 2014, so it didn't affect me. It wasn't a selling point in Poser 11, when I bought it, so I didn't know about it until well after.

I don't like the phone home feature. It's not something I've run into before. I have run into software where they take the license server offline for older versions, which forces you to upgrade if you want to install the software on a new computer, which I find pretty infuriating. But to actually have a working version stop working is not common, unless it's a subscription plan.

I suspect DRM is really the least of it. They did leave the door open to going to a subscription model in the future, like Adobe and Vue have. Obviously, phoning home would be necessary in that case. And closer to home...it sounds like they're trying integrate the RMP into Poser, with the ability to shop, buy, and install items from inside the program. An active Internet connection would be key to that plan.

@ Bondware

Did you know the best method to prevent Theft or Piracy of Private Property ! In your case Poser :

It would be in this case 1: Make sure that none has interest in it 2: If none has Interest in it it will not be stolen 3: you are on the best way to reach this target. By any means who would invest in something from 3rd Party if you can just shut it all down ? " Do not bring the excuse Others did so we also do " as it is your decision to Running it that way.

If you buy a Car and there is no one that Provides energy to run it , how useful will it then be ? in short terms where there is nothing to steal there will nothing be stolen! so your strategy with the Phone home is a little out of Place for this form of Product.

this strategy will most likely end up that in a way that Creators and customers will turn the back on or only take it if there is a cure for this disease. you should also update the rules that you not only rent the access to Poser but also to all the 3rd Party 3d stuff provided that you do not really own as you have full control over it by now.

To be honest, I'm kind of amazed that they made that announcement and so far out. I'd really like to hear their justification for it. Also wonder if they might consider putting out two versions? As long as it not too expensive, I probably wouldn't mind paying a small premium for a perpetual license. In the long run, it'd be cheaper than having to pay for a continuous internet connection. And not everyone has one or can afford one.

I'm guessing it is a corporate decision, that's the way Bondware licences their software, so poser is treated the same way, but I 'm only guessing as I have no experience of other Bondware software.

I believe it was important for Jenn to come out clearly as an attempt to stop threads like this in which some people seem almost intent on persuading others not to buy poser or content by stoking fears about poser stoping working in the future. I don't believe that is their intention but they should really consider what impression they are giving to potential poser users. And it's no excuse to say that it's Bondware's fault, we can all only be responsible for our own actions.

If you are poor and qualifiy for food stamps or receive SSI/SSD you can get a free android smart phone with 2 gigs of data from Assurance wireless or safelink.

They require you to go online at least once a month to keep the service active anyway so you could go that route for a monthly phone home for poser..

I am Daz a content clothing developer ( Not a Daz PA but for internal use in animated filmaking)

Those who might want to try to sell in the poser market would wonder if people not being able to afford internet service could afford to buy their content anyways.

That said... I still run Adobe CS 3( including After Effects) on my old intel Mac. I was delighted to discover that My 15 year old Old $2000 USD Endorphin ragdoll physics software runs on my new windows 10 PC.

Some companies ,like Autodesk ,can get away with forced upgrades,calling home and deactivation of older versions because their user base are professional companies with steady revenues AND they offer feature sets that these people really want/need.

Bondware /Poser is NOT in such a position and does so at their own peril.

My website

YouTube Channel

Wolf, I actually agree with you unnerving as it is for me :)

Gate, learn to take a hint.

They locked the other thread because of the ugly rants and accusations you insisted on tossing there... and now you're bringing them here. They're already being gracious enough to allow you to speak here at all - most people don't accept when somebody goes into their house to try to badmouth them and try to get everyone to be against them.

For crying out loud, just take a chill pill and stop.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Actually, I did not see this before, so I wonder how it will work, but the Newsletter said they are bringing the DVD back so people will have a physical copy. I seem to remember having some writing software, ironically, the same software as when and why I bought my first Poser, and I needed to insert the DVD in order to get it to work if I was not connected to the internet.

I could live with that, and for someone like Rokket, who's on a ship, and away from port a lot, it'd be great.

Oh, man, I remember CD-check. It was a DRM scheme back in the '90s, that required you to have the CD in your drive in order for the software to run. I recently re-installed a game called Elite Force, that used CD-check. CD-check no longer works on modern computers, but Activision has apparently given permission to crack the game and distribute it, as long as you don't try to charge money for it.

For me, it's not the cost of Internet access, it's that I don't always have it, and this may be even more true in the future. I travel a lot, including to places that don't have ready Internet access. And I'm reaching retirement age, when I hope to travel even more, and live full time in an RV, where I expect to spend a lot of time in places with no cell service. I suppose I could buy a satellite dish, but doing that just for Poser seems a bit much.

The DVD check would be a good substitute for those who cannot maintain a continuous internet connection (it's really no one';s business why they can't), actually. Yup, I remember those times too, with multiple software and games. 'Crud, I watched a movie last night and I forgot to reinsert the game CD'...

randym77 posted at 10:57AM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372025

Oh, man, I remember CD-check. It was a DRM scheme back in the '90s, that required you to have the CD in your drive in order for the software to run. I recently re-installed a game called Elite Force, that used CD-check. CD-check no longer works on modern computers, but Activision has apparently given permission to crack the game and distribute it, as long as you don't try to charge money for it.

For me, it's not the cost of Internet access, it's that I don't always have it, and this may be even more true in the future. I travel a lot, including to places that don't have ready Internet access. And I'm reaching retirement age, when I hope to travel even more, and live full time in an RV, where I expect to spend a lot of time in places with no cell service. I suppose I could buy a satellite dish, but doing that just for Poser seems a bit much.

Why would you do that ? haven't you seen :The hills have eyes ? huh?

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HP Zbook 17 G6,  intel Xeon  64 GB of ram 1 TB SSD, Quadro RTX 5000 

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Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:12PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372018

Gate, learn to take a hint.

They locked the other thread because of the ugly rants and accusations you insisted on tossing there... and now you're bringing them here. They're already being gracious enough to allow you to speak here at all - most people don't accept when somebody goes into their house to try to badmouth them and try to get everyone to be against them.

For crying out loud, just take a chill pill and stop.

Oh I can take it I have a hard skin I knew the answer just wanted to hear it , the question is can you handle the truth. Sometimes it takes a little to find out what is behind a plan rather then just to make a guess about it. they might also have a reason why they let me talk in here as there is always a reason why something happens , don't you think ?

but this is just a drop on a Hot stone about the whole truth as strategic Plans are very complex when it comes to business and if there are fiances involved there is no space for love nor compassion. Pay or you are out ---->> Door They work in long terms not just on the length of your Nose !

And I have no hard feelings about the closed thread this happens when trolls come in to make out of a good discussion there little war , guess it is based on there own frustrations nothing else

wolf359 posted at 12:53PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372015

... I still run Adobe CS 3( including After Effects) on my old intel Mac. I was delighted to discover that My 15 year old Old $2000 USD Endorphin ragdoll physics software runs on my new windows 10 PC.

Some companies ,like Autodesk ,can get away with forced upgrades,calling home and deactivation of older versions because their user base are professional companies with steady revenues AND they offer feature sets that these people really want/need.

Bondware /Poser is NOT in such a position and does so at their own peril.

I Do-Not-Like the idea of software shutting down and I very much agree with the "Bondware is not Autodesk" comparison above by wolf359. Charging for the software is ok. Copy protection in the form of registering it like Nero does is pretty much ok (I’ve had some problems when I upgraded disk sizes and changed memory configurations). But having the software phone in or go dark is NOT ok, at least for me.

I felt that a lot of that other thread (https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938693) was a mostly well spoken and informative discussion and am sorry that one or two writers got emotionally combative at the very end, the last half of page 3 or so. Before that it was interesting.

I am not rich, but I am not poor and I operate offline because in the past I've been hacked and had conflicts due to virus support software that caused crashes and have had to rebuild hard drives and load software and serial numbers, losing one or two programs along the way. It happened more than once and I vowed ‘never again!’ with my more expensive stuff.

I don’t care so much about my laptop and tablet because I don’t run much proprietary there other than Office.

So, my one wish is for 11.3 NOT to phone home or expire, and that the honest and definitive statement ‘it is what it is and will not be changing’ regarding that aspect at the end of the other thread is actually malleable at the higher levels of Bondware leadership.

If you read the Statements about Internet activation in Poser from Smith micro you would see that there is much more behind all this. They left officially the option that you choose your self if they can get information about your Habits and Hard software you use. I believe that this option has already been removed from Bondware as Poser needs to be connected. also there is no Offline activation as an option.The store gets integrated into the software.

Collecting Private information has to be stated clearly in the Info once you buy the software I recall that allot of Information Bondware is giving are miss leading and are very unprofessional. Actually you do not really get any Information like a Professional serious software distributor gives out . One Page will tell you that you can activate Offline the other say's you need Internet so how could the customer know.

" we will be collecting anonymous data help our team identify features in Poser that are frequently used. It also will give us a very basic snapshot of the hardware you are running on. That data will also tell us about crashes to help us improve Poser’s reliability."

"Each license you’ve purchased can be activated a maximum of 3 unique times. You can manually deactivate the license on one system to transfer it to a new system without using up one of your 3 activations. If you need to reactivate beyond 3 unique times for hardware related reasons, contact our tech support team for their assistance."

If you need such Information like mentioned above can anyone tell me where to find them at Renderosity that would be clear when purchasing the software? the other thing is Did Smith Micro hand out these information to Bondware when they made the Trans-fair !?

The other Issue is that actually it is not in any concern for Bondware as we found that it is stated that Smith micro can not just deactivate sold Licences and sell these to another one they guarantee the activation of Poser 11.1 and Game Dew the only reason for the call home is to Prevent Piracy and not intended to shut down a sold Poser Version. But well as we can see it happen and this has been abused by sending the notification that you have to update to bond-ware else Poser will stopp working.

The next question is ... wo did send this Notification ? Was it Bondware or was it Smith Micro ? It was Bondware ! Smith micro knew if they would send out this notification that they could get into Trouble breaking there contracts. so they left it u to Bondware just in case that it would cause issues in the near future.

Now I guess I have said what I wanted and stated my concerns , expressing my frustrations getting hit by a knife from behind, having a own community that I should give my attention rather then to spend my time in here " A Loss of time with no results " The concerned hide in there little castles smoking there cigars

I will not be Updating from 11.1 to any future Poser as long as this Call Home Kill Switch will be active.... If it is within my Power I will support the ones who use the older Poser versions for the time being assisting them with there versions.

gate posted at 3:38PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372054

If you read the Statements about Internet activation in Poser from Smith micro you would see that there is much more behind all this. They left officially the option that you choose your self if they can get information about your Habits and Hard software you use. I believe that this option has already been removed from Bondware as Poser needs to be connected. also there is no Offline activation as an option.The store gets integrated into the software.

Collecting Private information has to be stated clearly in the Info once you buy the software I recall that allot of Information Bondware is giving are miss leading and are very unprofessional. Actually you do not really get any Information like a Professional serious software distributor gives out . One Page will tell you that you can activate Offline the other say's you need Internet so how could the customer know.

" we will be collecting anonymous data help our team identify features in Poser that are frequently used. It also will give us a very basic snapshot of the hardware you are running on. That data will also tell us about crashes to help us improve Poser’s reliability."

WHAT?????????

The other Issue is that actually it is not in any concern for Bondware as we found that it is stated that Smith micro can not just deactivate sold Licences and sell these to another one they guarantee the activation of Poser 11.1 and Game Dew the only reason for the call home is to Prevent Piracy and not intended to shut down a sold Poser Version. But well as we can see it happen and this has been abused by sending the notification that you have to update to bond-ware else Poser will stopp working.

For the nth time. The reason that you have to update from 11.1 to 11.2 is because SMITH MICRO SHUT DOWN THEIR LICENSING SERVER FOR POSER. Smith Micro is the company that initiated the "phone home" feature in Poser. Not Renderosity. The licensing server used by Poser 11 and 11.1 is OWNED by Smith Micro and cannot be transferred over to Renderosity because there are other software products that Smith Micro still owns that use that licensing server. The ONLY option that Renderosity had was to provide an update that would allow Poser 11.2 to continue working under their ownership. Which meant changing the activation method so that it didn't involve the Smith Micro licensing server.

Deecey posted at 3:58PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372066

The other Issue is that actually it is not in any concern for Bondware as we found that it is stated that Smith micro can not just deactivate sold Licences and sell these to another one they guarantee the activation of Poser 11.1 and Game Dew the only reason for the call home is to Prevent Piracy and not intended to shut down a sold Poser Version. But well as we can see it happen and this has been abused by sending the notification that you have to update to bond-ware else Poser will stopp working.

For the nth time. The reason that you have to update from 11.1 to 11.2 is because SMITH MICRO SHUT DOWN THEIR LICENSING SERVER FOR POSER. Smith Micro is the company that initiated the "phone home" feature in Poser. Not Renderosity. The licensing server used by Poser 11 and 11.1 is OWNED by Smith Micro and cannot be transferred over to Renderosity because there are other software products that Smith Micro still owns that use that licensing server. The ONLY option that Renderosity had was to provide an update that would allow Poser 11.2 to continue working under their ownership. Which meant changing the activation method so that it didn't involve the Smith Micro licensing server.

Deecey, that may be true but Bondware had the option of eliminating the phone home and they did not. They're using it for personal data collection and probably reselling the data, like every other data broker.

You know, I used to be so happy when opening Poser and now I'm just depressed.

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this? Your data is used the minute you connect, the minute you buy something anywhere. This is the 21st century. Please be glad you don't live in countries where your data is used to control what you have access to, whom you can meet, where you can travel or what you eat.

Why should creating art with the same software is suddenly so depressing as opposed to say, last month or last year? I am assuming people who post here bought at least once something from this site--why is it suddenly so bad? Why do we believe everything posted by people hiding behind Internet anonymity without citing actual pages/ sources etc.

What's going on??

Also: they could have eliminated the phone home, but that would not change the having to update. As 11.1 had the phone home to SM. So even if to remove it - an update would be necessary.

And I wonder if we'll still be ruminating these same points into next year. As Rhia said, nearly every digital company these days collects your data. It's at a point where we should complain IF they do something bad with said data. Again, I understand the complaint of not being able to work offline, but all these other complaints seem... kinda overreacting over a thing that most people accept from other companies.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

And you know-- they're welcome to all my habits of cat browsing, 3d content selection and recipe searches. I mean, really, what the hell do I have to hide? They can't make me to buy stuff, I decide that.

Rhia474 posted at 5:22PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372071

And you know-- they're welcome to all my habits of cat browsing, 3d content selection and recipe searches. I mean, really, what the hell do I have to hide? They can't make me to buy stuff, I decide that.

Where are all the complaints about Windows 10? Not only do they collect everything they want off your computer WITHOUT your permission, THEY decide what goes on your computer, where and when.

But, somehow, Bondware/Renderosity are the enemy. As they type those exact words on an Windows10 computer!

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha, talk about getting on the wrong horse and then beating it to death!

Rhia474 posted at 4:26PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372069

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this?

Maybe because Microsoft stated up front that they were collecting data, and actually I think they ask permission, in fact I know they do because I get periodic pop ups requesting permission for this or that data to go to Microsoft but I'm using Windows 7 and will continue to do so.

If they had eliminated the phone home they'd have become heroes to all. Now they're just playing us for fools with this phone home. I researched Bondware - they supply communications (newspapers etc) software and brag about being able to supply lock outs for non paying subscribers. Well and good, but don't then pretend they don't have the ability to eliminate the phone home if they want to. It's the deceptions that rub.

You have no idea what they're doing with your data so how can you be so naive as to say we should complain if they do something bad, I can't believe that one.

I'm incredibly happy you have nothing to hide but the issue is our right to privacy.

... Yet somehow a phone-home makes you think they're surely collecting data. When, for all we know, it's just checking if your copy of their software is legit.

But hey, I guess some people would rather have someone tell them "I'm gonna punch your face now!" and get punched than have someone lightly tap their shoulder without a warning.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Yep, I am naive because I already know they are using my data. nodnods If they sell my data and I get robo calls, I don't pick them up. If they sell my data and I get unsolicited emails from companies I don't do business with, I delete them.

No one will force me to do anything I don't want to do. Least of all, to get myself worked up over an issue I don't see as an issue when the software is working, I have content to create with and art in my brain to create from.

Now if they stop having content for Poser, stop marketing Poser, terminate the agreement with Hivewire, or something of that nature--I will scream, long and loud.

Until then, I am gladly called naive. It's a free country,

Rhia474 posted at 7:52PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372078

Yep, I am naive because I already know they are using my data. nodnods If they sell my data and I get robo calls, I don't pick them up. If they sell my data and I get unsolicited emails from companies I don't do business with, I delete them.

No one will force me to do anything I don't want to do. Least of all, to get myself worked up over an issue I don't see as an issue when the software is working, I have content to create with and art in my brain to create from.

Now if they stop having content for Poser, stop marketing Poser, terminate the agreement with Hivewire, or something of that nature--I will scream, long and loud.

Until then, I am gladly called naive. It's a free country,

+1

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 5:00PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372076

... Yet somehow a phone-home makes you think they're surely collecting data. When, for all we know, it's just checking if your copy of their software is legit.

But hey, I guess some people would rather have someone tell them "I'm gonna punch your face now!" and get punched than have someone lightly tap their shoulder without a warning.

Did you miss this part: " we will be collecting anonymous data help our team identify features in Poser that are frequently used. It also will give us a very basic snapshot of the hardware you are running on. That data will also tell us about crashes to help us improve Poser’s reliability."

So if we don't want to update to 11.3 or any version thereafter they'll just shut us down. How charming.

BTW the Stuxnet Virus was facilitated by phone home software. Sleep tight :)

movida posted at 6:02PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372075

Rhia474 posted at 4:26PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372069

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this?

Maybe because Microsoft stated up front that they were collecting data, and actually I think they ask permission, in fact I know they do because I get periodic pop ups requesting permission for this or that data to go to Microsoft but I'm using Windows 7 and will continue to do so.

If they had eliminated the phone home they'd have become heroes to all. Now they're just playing us for fools with this phone home. I researched Bondware - they supply communications (newspapers etc) software and brag about being able to supply lock outs for non paying subscribers. Well and good, but don't then pretend they don't have the ability to eliminate the phone home if they want to. It's the deceptions that rub.

You have no idea what they're doing with your data so how can you be so naive as to say we should complain if they do something bad, I can't believe that one.

I'm incredibly happy you have nothing to hide but the issue is our right to privacy.

ROFL, you might just want to read up on Windows 10 data collection, but I'll give you a clue.....they don't ask permission and you cannot refuse to participate in the data collection unless you own a Windows10 Enterprise license.

And, if opening Poser so depresses you, might I suggest you delete it from your computer and move on? And, while you're at it, you should disconnect the internet, your web browser and email programs. They're all collecting data from you.

And, there was absolutely no deception on the part of Bondware/Renderosity. They told us from the getgo that phone home was staying.

If there was any deception it was on the part of SM when they implemented the phone home app in Poser 2014 Game Dev without telling anyone.

You have choices, and you can protect your privacy if you're so concerned. It's simple. Start deleting.

Glitterati3D posted at 5:08PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372084

movida posted at 6:02PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372075

Rhia474 posted at 4:26PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372069

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this?

Maybe because Microsoft stated up front that they were collecting data, and actually I think they ask permission, in fact I know they do because I get periodic pop ups requesting permission for this or that data to go to Microsoft but I'm using Windows 7 and will continue to do so.

If they had eliminated the phone home they'd have become heroes to all. Now they're just playing us for fools with this phone home. I researched Bondware - they supply communications (newspapers etc) software and brag about being able to supply lock outs for non paying subscribers. Well and good, but don't then pretend they don't have the ability to eliminate the phone home if they want to. It's the deceptions that rub.

You have no idea what they're doing with your data so how can you be so naive as to say we should complain if they do something bad, I can't believe that one.

I'm incredibly happy you have nothing to hide but the issue is our right to privacy.

ROFL, you might just want to read up on Windows 10 data collection, but I'll give you a clue.....they don't ask permission and you cannot refuse to participate in the data collection unless you own a Windows10 Enterprise license.

And, if opening Poser so depresses you, might I suggest you delete it from your computer and move on? And, while you're at it, you should disconnect the internet, your web browser and email programs. They're all collecting data from you.

And, there was absolutely no deception on the part of Bondware/Renderosity. They told us from the getgo that phone home was staying.

If there was any deception it was on the part of SM when they implemented the phone home app in Poser 2014 Game Dev without telling anyone.

You have choices, and you can protect your privacy if you're so concerned. It's simple. Start deleting.

I don't use Windows 10 if you read at all you'd have read that.

Don't you have a toddler handy you can stick pins into? That's what you're about.

I'm through with this you're just looking to start trouble.

https://www.csoonline.com/article/2136671/beware--phone-home--functionality-in-software.html

I lied :)

For me, the issue isn't so much the data collection, but the deactivation. And it's not even deactivation BECAUSE you've done something wrong or violated a rule or something, it's because you're not hooked up to the Internet.

movida posted at 6:14PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372086

Glitterati3D posted at 5:08PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372084

movida posted at 6:02PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372075

Rhia474 posted at 4:26PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372069

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this?

Maybe because Microsoft stated up front that they were collecting data, and actually I think they ask permission, in fact I know they do because I get periodic pop ups requesting permission for this or that data to go to Microsoft but I'm using Windows 7 and will continue to do so.

If they had eliminated the phone home they'd have become heroes to all. Now they're just playing us for fools with this phone home. I researched Bondware - they supply communications (newspapers etc) software and brag about being able to supply lock outs for non paying subscribers. Well and good, but don't then pretend they don't have the ability to eliminate the phone home if they want to. It's the deceptions that rub.

You have no idea what they're doing with your data so how can you be so naive as to say we should complain if they do something bad, I can't believe that one.

I'm incredibly happy you have nothing to hide but the issue is our right to privacy.

ROFL, you might just want to read up on Windows 10 data collection, but I'll give you a clue.....they don't ask permission and you cannot refuse to participate in the data collection unless you own a Windows10 Enterprise license.

And, if opening Poser so depresses you, might I suggest you delete it from your computer and move on? And, while you're at it, you should disconnect the internet, your web browser and email programs. They're all collecting data from you.

And, there was absolutely no deception on the part of Bondware/Renderosity. They told us from the getgo that phone home was staying.

If there was any deception it was on the part of SM when they implemented the phone home app in Poser 2014 Game Dev without telling anyone.

You have choices, and you can protect your privacy if you're so concerned. It's simple. Start deleting.

I don't use Windows 10 if you read at all you'd have read that.

Don't you have a toddler handy you can stick pins into? That's what you're about.

I'm through with this you're just looking to start trouble.

I'm not looking to start trouble. I'm just setting the record straight.

You're the one who insisted Microsoft asks permission to send data home, not me. I just corrected you.

I'm sure that makes you uncomfortable, but the truth is the truth. And, beating this dead horse over and over and over and over does what? Makes you feel better?

It's ridiculous and detrimental to Bondware/Renderosity's business. Since I have a vested interest in that business with the products I sell through them, I have the right to set the record straight when you post repeated mis/half truths.

movida posted at 5:10PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372063

gate posted at 3:38PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372054

If you read the Statements about Internet activation in Poser from Smith micro you would see that there is much more behind all this. They left officially the option that you choose your self if they can get information about your Habits and Hard software you use. I believe that this option has already been removed from Bondware as Poser needs to be connected. also there is no Offline activation as an option.The store gets integrated into the software.

Collecting Private information has to be stated clearly in the Info once you buy the software I recall that allot of Information Bondware is giving are miss leading and are very unprofessional. Actually you do not really get any Information like a Professional serious software distributor gives out . One Page will tell you that you can activate Offline the other say's you need Internet so how could the customer know.

" we will be collecting anonymous data help our team identify features in Poser that are frequently used. It also will give us a very basic snapshot of the hardware you are running on. That data will also tell us about crashes to help us improve Poser’s reliability."

WHAT?????????

Holy Smokinoly!

To Answer Rhia, with google and the others I automatically delete my cookies after a session and do everything to make sure after a search not much remains. I also use Duck duck go first as a general habit. I also browse in private mode. In theory the most they can get is one internet browsing session. If they go for an ip address, I think we have it on a rotating basis for what is seen from the outside. Recommended by a security expert a while ago. There are other things you can do when you set things up depending upon how much time you want to spend, but once running those privacy things are transparent to you.

But if you're using specific software like a drawing program that reports from your computer directly to the owner, especially if it collects data over time then when you access the net tells on you...yeah. yikes. That's different. I don't think I have anything on my machine that does anything like that to that extent. (((Shiver))).

Can we, first of all, please, get a link to what document and where it says what it says above? And what is the context? I am not trying to start trouble but I was taught in college to always quote my sources.

Thank you.

For full transparency, in case people did not read their EULA's for Poser 11.2, here is the part about info collection. While I raise an eyebrow about only mentioning Poser Pro Game Dev (would like to know more), there is an express permission needed clause there.

And just to be clear, this is on your computer under Poser 11/ Content/Documentation.

---

COLLECTION AND USE OF YOUR INFORMATION IN POSER PRO GAME DEV

Activation of the Program is REQUIRED in order to use the Poser Pro Game Dev version of the Program. You must have a valid serial number in order to complete the activation process of the Program. Upon your first installation of the Program, you will be prompted to activate the Program, and the Program will attempt to automatically connect to the Internet. Please be sure you have an Internet connection when initially installing the Program in order to activate the Program. The Program includes instructions regarding activation if you are not connected to (or unable to connect to) the Internet when attempting to complete the activation process of the Program. To complete the activation process, you will need to provide your name, valid e-mail address and applicable valid serial number for activating the Program.
As part of the activation process you will have the option to "opt-in" to receive product announcements and offers from BONDWARE. In addition, as part of the activation process, you will have the option to "opt-in" to participate in BONDWARE's efforts to improve the usability, experience, functionality and performance of its products and services. Your participation to allow BONDWARE to collect such usage statistics is voluntary. And, you may "opt out" at any time. If you choose to participate, BONDWARE may collect and use certain information related to the Program and your use of the Program that include information about: (i) your computer, such as Operation System, screen resolution, RAM capacity, CPU frequency, number of monitors; (ii) data about the Program, such as abnormal terminations, number of runs, program version; and (iii) information about separate feature usage, such as menu options or buttons selected. The information described in (i) – (iii) above will be combined and utilized in an anonymous manner to help BONDWARE’s efforts as noted above. If you are not comfortable sharing the foregoing described information, please choose not to participate. BONDWARE is very concerned with the privacy and security of the information end users provide as part of the registration, activation and opt-in processes described above. Any information collected described above is done and utilized in accordance with BONDWARE's Privacy Policy. Your election to use the Program indicates your acceptance of the terms of the BONDWARE Privacy Policy, so please review the policy carefully and check our website at the following URL to review updates: http://www.bondware.com/. Further, if you are located in the European Economic Area (EEA), your use of the Program constitutes consent by you to BONDWARE's and/or its affiliates to the transfer of such information to a location outside the EEA.

The same exact information appears in the Poser Pro Game Dev and Poser 11 EULA, for the record:

As follows:

Activation of the Software is REQUIRED in order to use the Software. Additionally, periodic reactivation of the Software may occur. You must have a valid serial number in order to complete the activation process of the Software. Upon your first installation of the Software, you will be prompted to activate the Software, and the Software will attempt to automatically connect to the Internet. Please be sure you have an Internet connection when initially installing the Software in order to activate the Software. The Software includes instructions regarding activation if you are not connected to (or unable to connect to) the Internet when attempting to complete the activation process of the Software. To complete the initial activation process, you will need to provide your name, valid e-mail address and applicable valid serial number for activating the Software.

As part of the initial activation process you will have the option to "opt-in" to receive product announcements and offers from SMSI. In addition, as part of the initial activation process, you will have the option to "opt-in" to participate in SMSI's efforts to improve the usability, experience, functionality and performance of its products and services. Your participation to allow SMSI to collect such usage statistics is voluntary. And, you may"opt out" at any time. If you choose to participate, SMSI may collect and use certain information related to the Software and your use of the Software that include information about: (i) your computer, such as Operation System, screen resolution, RAM capacity, CPU frequency, number of monitors; (ii) data about the Software, such as abnormal terminations, number of runs, program version; and (iii) information about separate feature usage, such as menu options or buttons selected. The information described in (i) - (iii) above will be combined and utilized in an anonymous manner to help SMSI's efforts as noted above. If you are not comfortable sharing the foregoing described information, please choose not to participate.

SMSI is very concerned with the privacy and security of the information end users provide as part of the registration, activation and opt-in processes described above. Any information collected described above is done and utilized in accordance with SMSI's Privacy Policy. Your election to use the Software indicates your acceptance of the terms of the SMSI Privacy Policy, so please review the policy carefully and check our website at the following URL to review updates: http://www.smithmicro.com/. Further, if you are located in the European Economic Area (EEA), your use of the Software constitutes consent by you to SMSI's and/or its affiliates to the transfer of such information to a location outside the EEA:

The EULA displays during installation and in the manuals. If you still have the SMSI version of Game Dev or Poser 11 or 11.1 installed you will find the exact same EULA text in the Installing Poser section of the manual, and it also appears in a window when you are installing Poser. This isn't a big brother conspiracy, please don't turn it into one.

... Data collection about the use of the program itself is as common as every other thing these days. Most programs are doing this, claiming that it's to help them improve the program and squash bugs. While, of course, I know some of them use that data for things they're not claiming they're doing... if we are gonna worry about this we pretty much have to stick to indie + old software.

Complaining about it on the software owner's forum ain't gonna change much. That's a worldwide phenomenum.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

And here is your opt in-opt out.

No changes here either.

Lord, not the facts!!!!

8-)

I know the docs intimately. I lived them for 8 years.

Fake News. ?

ROFLMAO

Hmm... I DID opt out.

If you have Windows 10 Pro, you can stop the data collection by Microsoft. No, it is not an easily clickable solution, but it is possible ... just saying.

Deecey posted at 4:09AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372097

The EULA displays during installation and in the manuals. If you still have the SMSI version of Game Dev or Poser 11 or 11.1 installed you will find the exact same EULA text in the Installing Poser section of the manual, and it also appears in a window when you are installing Poser. This isn't a big brother conspiracy, please don't turn it into one.

With respect to you, Deecey, while I might not sound an alarm at a Big Brother conspiracy, it doesn't mean there isn't a conspiracy. Company Policies aren't laws, they're policies. Not the same thing. People and Companies ignore policies all the time if it is in their interest to do so. In my experience and belief, I do believe that most laws are actually conspiracies written by lawyers generally written to absolve their clients of guilt or blame. And most EULAs aren't even read by the users. They aren't really meant to be. In some cases, EULAs require that you hold harmless any software company that may own software that damages your computer or data. And in many cases, EULAs allow companies to change the very nature of the contract you're agreeing to, retroactively, after you've signed it. Which means, they're not worth the metaphorical paper they're not even written on.

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" - Stasi

Some people really should read up on history. It frightens me to see how easily so many people - primarily the young - shrug off companies mining all your personal data.

Rhia474 posted at 6:18AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372103

Lord, not the facts!!!!

Glad you had a good laugh at what you thought would be my expense. Here are the facts:

Rhia, your submission of "documentation" does not mention Poser Pro 11 at all, so it's relation to the current subject or Poser 11 = 0 Deecey: your "documentation" is a Smith Micro EULA and we've been told time and time again that Smith Micro has NO relationship to Poser anymore. It;s relation to Poser 11 = 0

So at present out of 3 "documents" submitted, none protect the buyer and 1 protects Bondware. I'm leaving before the gaslighter chimes in but Bondware does need to be a little more selective in whom they choose as their public face.

Have a nice day.

Well, that was uncalled for. But my post about the EULA was meant to imply that basically it was boilerplate terminology and why I consider it a "conspiracy". So you could plugin Bondware for SmithMicro with trouble at all.

As I said before, my problem isn't with the data collection, I know they do that and I guard against it. My problem is with the deactivation of the program for not being hooked up to the internet. A point the EULA doesn't require or address.

Well we can get to the next facts !! as I said there is much more then one could imagine, consequences are like already mentioned that the Honest People get Punished they get a Call Home , they get spied out , they might loose there entire runtime ... and why because they are honest ? Nop it is because Industrial can do with them as they wish. Making them believe on what they say. I said I am not willing to use Poser 11.2 and I still will not use it why should I anyway ! they will spend there whole energy on trying to controll you but see one spends 15 minutes and it will start all over again ! If one really wants to get rid of a Call Home it will be so no matter how hard the try to Prevent it !

I made a test on my dusty old Laptop to be able to argue as I until now did not look into the Bondware Poser Version I did not even had to connect my self to the Internet! I am not a Professional Programmer so what do you think a Professional could do. The trial is the barrier if that one would be removed it would cause Poser to be active offline with no call Home

I would say that Bondware instead of insisting to keep there Call Home would have way more success removing it and concentrate on a Better Poser for a better Future supporting there Honest Members rather then to Punish them. I sometimes think that Poser would of been in Better hands if Daz would of gotten it !

Given that I prefaced that this was the documentation from my Poser 11, gave the folder and gave my caveat, I feel I have satisfied the factualities required.

Now, I resent ad hominem attacks and with that I am out of this thread. Sort of sad how many times I have to say that on this forum--maybe that tells I am naive and thin skinned. I am also shaking my head about the fact that someone quotes the Stasi to me. I am from an ex-Block country, you know, and saw that shit live (so not that young either). False equivalencies always make me mad. Perhaps it is really better that I stop trying to argue and concentrate on helping those with actual questions instead when I can.

Have a lovely day.

movida posted at 8:21AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372133

Rhia474 posted at 6:18AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372103

Lord, not the facts!!!!

Glad you had a good laugh at what you thought would be my expense. Here are the facts:

Rhia, your submission of "documentation" does not mention Poser Pro 11 at all, so it's relation to the current subject or Poser 11 = 0 Deecey: your "documentation" is a Smith Micro EULA and we've been told time and time again that Smith Micro has NO relationship to Poser anymore. It;s relation to Poser 11 = 0

So at present out of 3 "documents" submitted, none protect the buyer and 1 protects Bondware. I'm leaving before the gaslighter chimes in but Bondware does need to be a little more selective in whom they choose as their public face.

Have a nice day.

Here's the same section from the current Poser 11.2 manual (Bondware version)

The point here is that NOTHING HAS CHANGED in regards to the EULA regarding the data collection and ability to opt in or opt out, which is what some here are seeing as some sort of big brother attempt to sell personal information. It is exactly the same as the Poser 11.1 EULA that you have now. You see what you choose to see, but what you are choosing to see simply isn't there.

Have a nice day. Over and out.

Story time!

There was one time that a brazilian lady called Microsoft support. She complained that a star icon started appearing near her Windows 7's clock, saying "Genuine Program" or something similar, warning her that her Windows was not legit.

Person in the support service told her "ma'am, you were probably fooled into purchasing a pirated copy of Windows" to which she replied - and went down into our history for stupidity - "I WASN'T FOOLED! I INSTALLED A PIRATED WINDOWS AND I DEMAND MY CUSTOMER RIGHTS TO HAVE THIS ANNOYANCE STAR REMOVED!"

.... On other news completely, purely on coincidence, entirely unrelated, as a curiosity - this was posted on the official forums of the company that owns Poser Software:

Pfff. Over and out here too.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

gate posted at 8:42AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372136

I would say that Bondware instead of insisting to keep there Call Home would have way more success removing it and concentrate on a Better Poser for a better Future supporting there Honest Members rather then to Punish them. I sometimes think that Poser would of been in Better hands if Daz would of gotten it !

More than likely Poser would be completely dead, for everyone, and you'd still be sending information to DAZ.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 8:42AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372141

Story time!

There was one time that a brazilian lady called Microsoft support. She complained that a star icon started appearing near her Windows 7's clock, saying "Genuine Program" or something similar, warning her that her Windows was not legit.

Person in the support service told her "ma'am, you were probably fooled into purchasing a pirated copy of Windows" to which she replied - and went down into our history for stupidity - "I WASN'T FOOLED! I INSTALLED A PIRATED WINDOWS AND I DEMAND MY CUSTOMER RIGHTS TO HAVE THIS ANNOYANCE STAR REMOVED!"

.... On other news completely, purely on coincidence, entirely unrelated, as a curiosity - this was posted on the official forums of the company that owns Poser Software:

Pfff. Over and out here too.

Give gate a minute......he'll post step by step instructions on how to crack Poser security on their own forums.

Bragging rights and all, ya know........

Rhia474 posted at 2:40PM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372137

I am also shaking my head about the fact that someone quotes the Stasi to me. I am from an ex-Block country, you know, and saw that shit live

An yet, you willingly give up your personal info so easily? Then you have learned nothing. Which proves my point.

BTW, my comment wasn't directed at you personally, but at everyone who doesn't take their privacy seriously.

Bottom line, my issue is primarily with the deactivation feature. Yes, Bondware didn't start it, but they had a golden opportunity to get rid of it. They chose to make it worse.

Perhaps when you folks are done demolishing Bondware/Renderosity, you can take on something REALLY important like this:

The Trump administration intends to propose a regulation next year that would require all travelers - including U.S. citizens - to be photographed when entering or leaving the United States, according to the administration’s regulatory agenda.

The proposed regulation, slated to be issued in July by the Homeland Security Department, would be part of a broader system to track travelers as they enter and exit the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-privacy/u-s-homeland-security-proposes-face-scans-for-citizens-idUSKBN1Y62JO

@ Afrodite-Ohki @Glitterati3D

well no it is not a Hack and there will not be any Instructions for it , It is to make you aware of a situation. By manipulating on the Smith micro security they actually caused a Glitch a simple error that actually is Fatal as there actually is no working Protection in Poser 11.2 anymore what remained was a Popup of an old Smith Micro Ghost.

Also it is not in any Intention to show how to do it it is to show that there is an Error like many that are done since they Toy around trying to change a working version. Well guess they are already working on a Fix for the issues meaning that you will have to Update soon LOL " and Tell me how would they know if no one tells ? "

But still like Oki already mentioned many times there are no Prevention ! and like many others feel that have a legitimate version is that they suffer on a Call Home and there might be many that even can not use poser anymore as they have it not on the Internet.

Well Glitterati3D you probably wish to get Instructions " Keep on Dreaming " some People think they ate Intelligence with a teaspoon, as it is not intended to damage Bondware in any way else it would not of been said in here that there is a Fatal error. They ask you to say if there are issues with Poser from Users ! so well there is one.

Glitterati3D posted at 3:20PM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372145

Perhaps when you folks are done demolishing Bondware/Renderosity, you can take on something REALLY important like this:

The Trump administration intends to propose a regulation next year that would require all travelers - including U.S. citizens - to be photographed when entering or leaving the United States, according to the administration’s regulatory agenda.

The proposed regulation, slated to be issued in July by the Homeland Security Department, would be part of a broader system to track travelers as they enter and exit the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-privacy/u-s-homeland-security-proposes-face-scans-for-citizens-idUSKBN1Y62JO

If I were to apply for Visa to the US, I would already be required to give them access to my Facebook and any other social media accounts (which i don't have, and would probably be considered suspicious enough to deny me entrance), my email accounts and any and all personal information they deem necessary, a detailed explanation of where I would be going, who I would talk to and what I would be doing. On entrance, if I were carrying any electronic devices, I would have to be prepared for border patrol (or whatever they are called) to take a copy of any and all content on these devices, be it software, pictures, letters or any other private info.

The US is already a fascist state in many regards. Which is why it is even more disturbing that people so willingly give up their info.

Okay, I'm out. This thread is gonna get locked soon anyway. For the record, I suggest everyone back away from the keyboards and take deep breaths. Then move on. You've made your point.

Agree. Let's shut this down.