A friend asked what software I was using as reference material for a drawing I was working on. I wanted to give her a link to Poser, but there only is the Pro version. She will not be investing $199 into this and I'm going to drive her towards the competition now and recommend Daz3D, thought that's not what I want to do at all. Will the regular version of Poser come back or do you rather have every beginner go to the competition? I'm sure they don't mind that the base version of Poser is gone.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

It appears Rendo/Bondware has decided to rationalise on one version of Poser only. so there is now only Poser Pro. I can see this makes sense in trying to get all users to be using the same version, so for example someone making a body morph for a figure for sale no longer needs to worry about clothes fitting as everybody has access to the copy morphs from feature which used to be a pro only feature.

I can't remember the base price of Poser 11, but I know I paid more than 199usd upgrading from Poser2014pro to 11 pro. And now if you buy Poser 11 pro you get extra content that is available in the store to the value of 900usd (according to Rendo, I haven't checked it myself).

Also you can download Poser 11 pro and use it for a 21 day trial for free.(but you don't get access to the extra content until you buy it)

You could also factor in all the free content you get with Poser just to start out of the box that would probably cost you more that $200 to buy.

There is over $900 is NEW free content with the purchase of Poser Pro 11. The software is on a large discount at just $199 for the full version and $99 for the upgrade. And there is also all of the previous legacy figures, props, animals and other content that has always been included with Poser.

Okay I see, but for someone starting out the $49 it used to be or the $199 it is now is a big difference. I'm sure my friend will not invest $199 from the start, so DAZ3D it will be for her.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Why don't you give her the choice and let her make up her own mind? I would, no matter which software I personally liked better.

I think as a starter one gets more with poser and all that extra goodie and is able to start playing directly. With DS one still need to buy lots of things.

"Dream like you'll live forever. Live like you'll die tomorrow."

Join PoserLounge Chat

If all that Poser will be needed for is simple figure-reference, then one can still get Poser Debut on eBay for about $8 on a DVD. So far as I am aware it can still be activated. Debut would be a nice gift for her to try, and if she likes it then she has an upgrade path to Poser 11.2. Those with a Poser Debut serial number are eligible for the upgrade price.

---

Learn the Secrets of Poser 11 and Line-art Filters.

Ebay might be a good idea.

EClark1894 posted at 2:29AM Wed, 29 January 2020 - #4378103

Why don't you give her the choice and let her make up her own mind? I would, no matter which software I personally liked better.

That's of course the first thing I did I gave her the options and Poser Pro was quickly discarded, too much of an investment for her.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

IMO if it's just for reference then extra content is irrelevant. You just need a simple nude figure that can be posed and if you can't find a good deal on ebay for Poser Debut then I would really suggest just going for DAZ Studio. It's free and you get the G8 starter essentials for free as well. There's also the weekly freebies and you can slooooooooooooowly build up a library of clothing/hair/characters that way, but if it's just for reference than that shouldn't be a big deal.

Even though you're talking about software for model references may I also suggest a physical figure prop. Maybe one of those wooden basic shape figures or something more detailed like the Phicen/TB League figures. Someone bought me one of those Phicen figures for this exact same purpose and it's actually been super useful in my sketches.

Thanks. DAZ Studio would work indeed for that, but a bit of extra content is always nice. It's mainly for reference purpose.

A wooden mannequin is nice, but has it's limits, for me Poser is a huge goto when needed some poses. Having been using Poser since 1999 I build a huge library myself and there's so mayny stuff that comes in handy when doing traditional art. That's not her main purpose though.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

What is her purpose? And is the figures her main concern or the cost?

EClark1894 posted at 1:00AM Thu, 30 January 2020 - #4378290

What is her purpose? And is the figures her main concern or the cost?

I do think she has the main concern as anyone starting with Poser or Daz Studio..... cost. She made up her mind, it will not be Poser Pro, to steep of a price to get in. Most beginners don't need Poser Pro, they want to easily get into it, check it out and go from there. $199 isn't something you easily get into, Poser Debut was perfect for that purpose. Rendo doesn't offer it, so that's that. She's going for DAZ and might pick up some content she really likes there too. DAZ does understand one thing well...... marketing. You get people interested by offering something for free and once they're hooked you offer them a world of content. They are likely to spent a lot more the $199 that Rendo is asking, but don't need to pay at once. It's a shame. I still prefer Poser over DAZ Studio, but I do understand her reasoning for not wanting to pay $199 for something she just wants to check out.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk

Okay. I wish her well.

Even that I am a Poser user I would say your friend might be better of with Daz to start off. just to be able to get the Freebies offered by 3rd Party creators in Poser and Pay the Price it is not worth it . The good old stuff is still based on V4 M4 and she would have to get her at Daz !

There are loads of great free content for Poser and DS over the Internet just use google search for "Free Poser/ DS" . Ds will support both DS/Poser models , at least almost all with the little exception of La Femme. Also at the moment she would be in disadvantage as no one knows how it will develop and making large Investments into Poser could end up as a loss. Poser has a call home system that might be changing into a monthly pay system , they just have to hit that little button !! so better wait up until they release Poser 12 as it also could be that they hit the button and shut down Poser 11, you never know.

The next thing is that most of the great Creators make models for DS , so if she plans to buy stuff she might get better quality for the price offered. The latest DS models are very developed and it would take poser over a decade to catch up on them if they get some capable Creators, what I doubt, as they rather get rid of them then to recruiter.

This is my honest meaning even that I am a Poser user and should support it , but if I were to start off from scratch I would Pick DS to be on the secure side.

Freebies ... for Poser and for DazStudio (DazStudio ones are either clearly marked or, in the case of content for DazStudio figures, obviously DazStudio content). DazStudio can use most Poser content too ... not PP11 content and not figures that are weightmapped for Poser.

I like both (and Bryce too), no application wars on my computer.

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page

I use only Poser and I love it but if anyone was starting out I would still recommend starting out with DS, apart from anything else until you really get into start to dig into 3D art it is hard to decide if it something you are going to enjoy. Even if you decide it is something you want to look into a bit deeper it will be a while for most users before they can decide just where they are going. I used Daz for a year or more before I decided that Poser was worth the extra outlay and that was Poser 4. For a while I used both softwares but I found there was so much to learn in either I felt I could go further if I concentrated on one program. Having made my choice I stayed with Poser upgrading Poser whenever the was a new version available.

Much as I like Poser it seems a waste of money if it is not going to be used and only the individual user can decide if any software is worth the outlay. All Daz is doing in the initial stages is offering an unlimited 'try before you buy' facility, let's face it, if you are then going to take 3D art seriously it is going to cost a good deal of money. The only exception maybe those to whom the ability to model is a second nature and I suspect such individuals are quite rare.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

The problem is that starting out with one program or the other is a bit different than a few years ago. Yes, to a degree the props are pretty much the same, but from there things tend to diverge. Figures, lighting cameras, controls, etc. It does'nt make one program or the other better, just more different. I've used DS to some degree in the past, even made some props and clothes. Didn't like it. I was making a house for Dawn at one time, which, one day, I'm actually going to finish, but I knew before I got to where I stopped that I wasn't going to be doing a DS version. That was mainly a texturing thing, and before Iray. After Iray, the divide got even wider.

You learn in one program and you grow familiar with that program. That ends up being the program you most like prefer.

So, if she's made her choice. Okay, I wish her well.

Yes, this is the problem for poser, once someone has invested in content for DS they are unlikely to switch to poser and ditch the content they have bought or jump through the hoops of dson import, especially if the 200usd was the issue in the first place.

Clearly Rendo has to keep the additional content free with poser behind the serial number block, but perhaps an illustrated catalog of this content could be made available for download with the free 21 day trial download. This would allow a fair comparison, new users could try both programs, look at what content they could buy for 200usd for DS and see what content they would get by spending that money on Poser 11 pro

@azath....I am so tired of your assumptions. Poser has had a call home system since Smith Micro owned it. That was started it with Poser Pro 2014 Game Dev and carried through Poser 11 and Poser Pro 11. We continued that system for continuity and for the ability to have the notification system built in and for future development It is NOT to start charging a fee to use Poser. IF and when....IF EVER...we offered a subscription there would also be an option to purchase poser as always. A fully licensed version to buy to own. Stop putting out "ideas" or "assumptions" into the ether. You claim to support Poser...while always trying to undercut the program. WHY? We have owned the software for less than a year. How about you just give it a little time and see what actually is done.

As for a list of products or content that is FREE with the purchase of Poser..we do have a page listing all of that content. It is connected to each Poser Software page here with the the purple bar right under the lightbox images. Says click here to see free content....click that and it will take you HERE.

On the Poser Software site we also have a link to that same sort of page that list the content. it is HERE

Nails60 posted at 11:13AM Thu, 30 January 2020 - #4378352

Yes, this is the problem for poser, once someone has invested in content for DS they are unlikely to switch to poser and ditch the content they have bought or jump through the hoops of dson import, especially if the 200usd was the issue in the first place.

Clearly Rendo has to keep the additional content free with poser behind the serial number block, but perhaps an illustrated catalog of this content could be made available for download with the free 21 day trial download. This would allow a fair comparison, new users could try both programs, look at what content they could buy for 200usd for DS and see what content they would get by spending that money on Poser 11 pro

Never intimated that it was a problem JUST for Poser. In fact, a few people I know said they switched over from DS TO Poser primarily because they didn't either like the UI, or the rendering system or they preferred certain things about Poser that were different. It doesn't always have to be about content. In fact, I do have DS on my computer. It's an older version and if I check my product library at DAZ they probably have several of the newer versions in there. And if it were just a content thing, I survived the first few years of Poser, prior to my joining Renderosity or DAZ, downloading freebies from the internet, so after my initial cost, which I believe at the time was quite more significant $199, I didn't actually BUY any content for Poser for almost two years. My point is, Aeilkema's friend could easily do the same with Studio, I'm sure, if she really doesn't want to invest too much money to just to see if she likes it.

Also, don't forget, Poser does come with a 21 day free trial.

The hobby, which is what 3D art is for me, has certainly changed in all the years that I have been playing with it but then so much in life has changed in the last twenty odd years (and they have been odd years in many respects). I have not used DS for many years now and clearly DS and Poser have moved off in different directions but I think we too often look at the differences and pay little regard for commonality. I guess this is understandable in some respects, in the same way we as a race tend to look at what we want rather than what we have. Concentration on our wishlist always seem to take priority over what is in our runtime but for all that there are so many similarities. Finishing up with a good render needs good lighting, composition, attention to detail and so much more and that is true no matter what software is used, there may be different paths to that goal, dependant on the software in question, but the basics remain the same.

Even today a large percentage of the content can be made to work in either DS or Poser, sure some may need a little bit of effort but very little is totally impossible. As to worrying about investment in 3D art software is no more vulnerable or protected than most things in life. When I started with Poser I think I paid over $400 for Poser, I know for a fact that the upgrade for Poser 7 was $249 and I purchased it on sale at $160 and that was in $2006. At the time many were predicting that Poser was dying and would not last much longer. I also purchased Bryce and Hexigon, 14 years and Poser 11.2 looks nothing like Poser 7 but Bryce and Hexigon has not changed much. Sure they are still around as is the company that owns the, but very few people would buy them today.

Trying to predict the future is a mug's game and with a good level of certainty that you will get it wrong. Far better to do your research and buy based upon what you can see and use today and from there on in have fun using what you have rather what you think you might have. Personally I think Poser is in a good place, a better place that is has been for a while but guess what, if all development on Poser stopped this very moment I will still be using it, for how long who knows, that is the future and I would rather have fun now and not worry about that.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

@jennblake, just wanted to say thank you, and well said.

Hornet, if Poser stopped development today, I know very well what software I would be using next, Blender, as there's little to nothing DS could do for me that I couldn't find or do in Blender as well, if not more.

jennblake posted at 2:28PM Thu, 30 January 2020 - #4378356

We continued that system for continuity and for the ability to have the notification system built in and for future development It is NOT to start charging a fee to use Poser. IF and when...

.I**F EVER...we offered a subscription there would also be an option to purchase poser as always. A fully licensed version to buy to own. Stop putting out "ideas" or "assumptions" into the ether. **Y

That's the first mention of that information I've seen. It might alleviate a lot of the concern here.

jennblake posted at 4:13PM Thu, 30 January 2020 - #4378356

@azath....I am so tired of your assumptions. Poser has had a call home system since Smith Micro owned it. That was started it with Poser Pro 2014 Game Dev and carried through Poser 11 and Poser Pro 11. We continued that system for continuity and for the ability to have the notification system built in and for future development It is NOT to start charging a fee to use Poser. IF and when....IF EVER...we offered a subscription there would also be an option to purchase poser as always. A fully licensed version to buy to own. Stop putting out "ideas" or "assumptions" into the ether. You claim to support Poser...while always trying to undercut the program. WHY? We have owned the software for less than a year. How about you just give it a little time and see what actually is done.

As for a list of products or content that is FREE with the purchase of Poser..we do have a page listing all of that content. It is connected to each Poser Software page here with the the purple bar right under the lightbox images. Says click here to see free content....click that and it will take you HERE.

On the Poser Software site we also have a link to that same sort of page that list the content. it is HERE

I know this is a bit OT but is there any way to allow the store and the bonus content from P11 to be linked somehow? There's so much stuff that you get and a lot of that was on my wishlist but when I check it out in the store it's not listed as being owned. If I want to buy something I have to make sure it's not something that was gifted by owning P11.

Also another question, the Girl Gear that we get with P11, that's a special version of it made just for LF? The regular version seems like it's made just for G8F.

John, if I'm not mistaken as long as you have your serial number, you can download the bonus content from posersoftware.com under downloads and it's still free so as far as I know you don't have to buy anything.

EClark1894 posted at 6:39AM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378416

John, if I'm not mistaken as long as you have your serial number, you can download the bonus content from posersoftware.com under downloads and it's still free so as far as I know you don't have to buy anything.

I think he meant linking it to the store so that he doesn't accidentaly buy a thing again because the store shows it as not owned even though it comes with Poser.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

So he wants the store to read my Poser library to determine if I own something or not? Only if you make it a user option.

I don't know, could perhaps detect if Poser 11 is in a user's library (at least the ones bought via Renderosity?) and automatically add to the person's library all the products that come free with 11.2 that are in Renderosity's store.

The problem I can see with that is that some of those products, in store, come with Poser and DS version in one product, but the ones free with Poser are the Poser version only, naturally.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

I just don't want anyone poking around my computer, determining what I got.

Wouldn't need to poke your computer, though? I mean, at least for what I thought, it would only be Renderosity checking if your Renderosity account has Poser in it or not. No matter if you got it installed or if you got any of the extra downloads installed.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

EClark

I know you don't buy things so perhaps you don't know how it works currently. If you go to any product you have bought at Rendo it indicates it is purchased. (Daz has the option to hide products you own on by default, Hivewire shows an indication on the product and also has the hide option I believe). However this is not the case for the free poser items with 11.2 (or for prime freebies etc),

Perhaps the solution would be for customers to be able to link their poser 11 serial to their account for those who bought p11 from somewhere else prior to the sale to rendo, and then for that content it could be added to the account as purchased.

And in someways I'd love Rendo to be able to read my library to mark everything I have bought from various sites as purchased, with some stuff starting at rnda, going to daz then to rendo, and stuff which has come from CP, but I can see why other would worry, and it's probably not technically viable.

So I don't think the paranoid brigade have anything to worry about, but now it's been mentioned I can see someone telling everybody not to buy poser because this is what Bondware is planning!

Nails you got so much wrong in your last post, particularly about me not buying things, that I just don't know where to start. I mean, paranoid, really? You sound like a cop who thinks I have something to hide because I don't want him to violate my CONSTITUITIONAL rights and search my car during a traffic stop.

I have no qualms with anyone LETTING someone search their library, if that's what you want to do. I merely want the option to choose.

Nails60 posted at 12:17PM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378439

EClark

I know you don't buy things so perhaps you don't know how it works currently. If you go to any product you have bought at Rendo it indicates it is purchased. (Daz has the option to hide products you own on by default, Hivewire shows an indication on the product and also has the hide option I believe). However this is not the case for the free poser items with 11.2 (or for prime freebies etc),

Perhaps the solution would be for customers to be able to link their poser 11 serial to their account for those who bought p11 from somewhere else prior to the sale to rendo, and then for that content it could be added to the account as purchased.

And in someways I'd love Rendo to be able to read my library to mark everything I have bought from various sites as purchased, with some stuff starting at rnda, going to daz then to rendo, and stuff which has come from CP, but I can see why other would worry, and it's probably not technically viable.

So I don't think the paranoid brigade have anything to worry about, but now it's been mentioned I can see someone telling everybody not to buy poser because this is what Bondware is planning!

I don't know what or why it is, but Earl always seems to completely misunderstand everything I say lately. I could say "I want to have some food" and he'd think I said "Well I really want to everyone here to go and buy a new sports car paint it blue then afterwards you should start your own take out business that only sells expensive raviolis".

But yeah, the product indication is what I would like to eventually see for the bonus content. I like the idea of linking your serial number to the store and I'm actually surprised that wasn't already an option since Bondware now owns and sells Poser exclusively on the marketplace. Though Bondware reading my Poser library is a step I'm not too comfortable with.

Come on, John. If I misunderstand, it's because you don't state it clearly. I don't hardly think I'd misunderstand "I want some food" with buying a new sports car. Or did I get that wrong too?

Well both Afrodite-Ohki and Nails understood what I meant.

Besides, I only say that because in another thread about organizing poser I wrote how I wished the runtimes had a standardized structure but somehow you misconstrue that as wanting "a catalogue with a picture of his shirt, who it's made by, how much it costs and where he can buy it" which was literally nothing I said. I said none of that, anywhere in my posts and I was really confused as to where any of that came from and how you thought that's what I said. lol

It's ok though, it's just text and sometimes ideas don't always carry across in fonts.

Runtimes DO have a standaridized structure.

EClark1894 posted at 1:59PM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378453

Runtimes DO have a standaridized structure.

That wasn't the point of my post. It's clear we're clearly not clearly clear on our thoughtful thinking thoughts here and it doesn't seem like we're going to be in sync at all, so I am just going to slowly exit this conversation.

EClark, where did I mention you were paranoid? I specifically said that I understand that some people would be uncomfortable.

. My comment is about those who hear one rumour and then act as if the world is about to end, I'm sure you are aware as those to whom I'm referring.

And I apologise if you are upset about my comment that you do not buy things, this was not meant as a criticism , rather based on your previous comments here and earlier on the SM forum where you have implied you made content you used,but I accept you have never said you do not buy content. But since you were clearly misunderstanding the issue I tried to give a reason why that might be so.

JohnDoe641 posted at 1:40PM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378446

I don't know what or why it is, but Earl always seems to completely misunderstand everything I say lately. I could say "I want to have some food" and he'd think I said "Well I really want to everyone here to go and buy a new sports car paint it blue then afterwards you should start your own take out business that only sells expensive raviolis".

Please bear in mind the EClark1894 is so-called, because it's an 1894-Series ebot!

Everyone, can we all please take a moment to breathe? Let's not allow misunderstandings to get us angry/fighting, please.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Nails60 posted at 5:32PM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378458

EClark, where did I mention you were paranoid? I specifically said that I understand that some people would be uncomfortable.

I took this to mean that you were calling me a part of the "paranoid brigade".

"So I don't think the paranoid brigade have anything to worry about, but now it's been mentioned I can see someone telling everybody not to buy poser because this is what Bondware is planning!"

. My comment is about those who hear one rumour and then act as if the world is about to end, I'm sure you are aware as those to whom I'm referring.

And I apologise if you are upset about my comment that you do not buy things, this was not meant as a criticism , rather based on your previous comments here and earlier on the SM forum where you have implied you made content you used,but I accept you have never said you do not buy content. But since you were clearly misunderstanding the issue I tried to give a reason why that might be so.

I also have said that I have an account here at Renderosity. I do like to make things in Blender. I'm working on something now. But that doesn't mean I've made everything in my library or downloaded it from the internet. If you've read the SM forum, then you can see renders that I've made using Dawn and Dusk. I'm not limited to those figures, they're just the ones I prefer to use right now. My account page is several pages long, but I do stop at 87. I did have a wish list, but some of that stuff is rather dated now, and yeah, I can probably do a go job recreating it.

Also, my account here doesn't include stuff I've bought from DAZ, RDNA, HIVEWIRE, Poserworld, Content Paradise, Animotions, etc.

JennBlake, please explain something, if you would.

You say the call-home "feature" is in there for continuity, even though it's only been in Poser Game Developer, not the main program itself, until now. The people who dont like it — myself included — want it out. We already had one occasion where the Bondware server went down and no one whose copies were trying to call home could even open the program. Granted, that was only for a few hours, but nevertheless, what if something catastrophic hit and shut the server down for a few weeks (and yes, that's possible)? What possible advantage does this thing that nobody wants serve you? If Bondware could put a credible explanation out there for it (something better than "well, it was in there when we got it"), it might alleviate some concerns. But thus far, I havent heard one.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

For accuracy's sake, Poser Game Dev was the first version that SM released that had the "phone home" activation in place. It carried over into Poser 11 (both standard and pro), which also used the same activation scheme. Moho uses it as well. Activation was either accomplished behind the scenes online, or by obtaining an activation/deactivation certificate on a machine that was connected, and then transferring that certificate to an offline computer. In the five plus years since Game Dev, and approaching four years for Poser 11, I don't think I ever had any issues with it.

Poser 11.2 was Rendo's first release. They probably had a limited amount of time to figure out a solution, seeing as SM owned the activation server and were planning on taking it offline. So the "phone home" feature isn't new to the Rendo version, the only change that I am aware of is that it no longer phones in to the SM server seeing as it no longer exists.

@ Deecey: understood. But Bondware has refused, thus far, to say why they're keeping it in... which they intend to do, as far as I can tell from their replies to date. People have been asking about this for some time, and the replies have been vague at best.

So I"m hoping someone from Bondware will step up and tell us why this is such a valuable "feature".

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

I"m hoping someone from Bondware will step up and tell us why this is such >a valuable "feature".

Stems piracy & provides data on number of installed users.

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Guess we will see if they keep it in PP12 and stepp into SM's shoes

@ Wolf , it does not prevent Piracy it provokes Piracy . If you run your legal licence it will be affected from the call home it will even periodically send a lock to get all SM versions down even if they have Permanent licences. If you run a unregistriert versions there servers will not be able to get into your system and leave you alone , so there goes honest people!

@ Jenn , Why ? I guess you know why ! I do not like Lies and I guess many others also, I can not give respect for people who try to get what they want by force if you know what I mean. also there are several Threads at Daz and other Places that say that people who argue in these Forums get there Accounts banned including all there Purchases counted over 6 since end of July. Is this the way you plan to handle Poser in the future ?

Nails60 posted at 8:19AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378458

EClark, where did I mention you were paranoid? I specifically said that I understand that some people would be uncomfortable.

. My comment is about those who hear one rumour and then act as if the world is about to end, I'm sure you are aware as those to whom I'm referring.

And I apologise if you are upset about my comment that you do not buy things, this was not meant as a criticism , rather based on your previous comments here and earlier on the SM forum where you have implied you made content you used,but I accept you have never said you do not buy content. But since you were clearly misunderstanding the issue I tried to give a reason why that might be so.

LOL, Nails60, it's the Paranoia Brigade that STARTS the rumors. And the more you ignore them, the more outrageous the next Paranoid Point will be, because what they really are is attention seekers. If they get ignored, they just up the paranoia to the next level.

AKA: see above. I can't imagine how many people have been banned for complaining in the Rendo forums, when an obnoxious account whose entire existence is badmouthing Poser and its vendors keeps yapping freely here even after having broken several forum rules.

If he doesn't like lies, perhaps a severe case of self-hatred is ongoing.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

wolf359 posted at 9:23AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378504

I"m hoping someone from Bondware will step up and tell us why this is such >a valuable "feature".

Stems piracy & provides data on number of installed users.

(1) Poser is most likely not high on the piracy lists, especially since its market appears to be shrinking.

(2) Sales figures and downloads will tell you how many users you have.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

Sales figures and downloads will provide numbers on sales figures and downloads, not on actually installed data.

On piracy: crack programs simply remove the phone home feature. But a phone home feature will chase away simpler workarounds of like changing one's date&time settings to trick the program on how long it has left on demo times, for instance. So it won't help against "advanced" piracy, but it will against "casual" piracy.

I still think it's not worth the trouble it gives on actual paying customers, but again - I don't have all the intel and knowledge about the entire program and market to know the pros and cons.

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Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Azath posted at 10:47AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378505

Guess we will see if they keep it in PP12 and stepp into SM's shoes

@ Wolf , it does not prevent Piracy it provokes Piracy . If you run your legal licence it will be affected from the call home it will even periodically send a lock to get all SM versions down even if they have Permanent licences. If you run a unregistriert versions there servers will not be able to get into your system and leave you alone , so there goes honest people!

That's hokum. Locking my door when I go out does not provoke people into wanting to break in. I believe that people who pirate things, including software, are already inclined to do so, if for no other reason than to feed their own egos by proving that they can pirate it. Same reasons some people hack and steal.

EClark1894 posted at 11:35AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378522

Azath posted at 10:47AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378505

Guess we will see if they keep it in PP12 and stepp into SM's shoes

@ Wolf , it does not prevent Piracy it provokes Piracy . If you run your legal licence it will be affected from the call home it will even periodically send a lock to get all SM versions down even if they have Permanent licences. If you run a unregistriert versions there servers will not be able to get into your system and leave you alone , so there goes honest people!

That's hokum. Locking my door when I go out does not provoke people into wanting to break in. I believe that people who pirate things, including software, are already inclined to do so, if for no other reason than to feed their own egos by proving that they can pirate it. Same reasons some people hack and steal.

The point is the phone home facilitates piracy. My legal copy of Windows 7 at 1 point started giving me the not legit screen. I called Microsoft and they gave me a new activation code, they also told me that my serial number (which I purchased at Newegg) had been used over 10,000 times and that all the pirates had to do (we have continuous internet connectivity now) was just locate a running instance and copy the serial number. They weren't surprised at all.

movida posted at 1:22PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378541

EClark1894 posted at 11:35AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378522

Azath posted at 10:47AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378505

Guess we will see if they keep it in PP12 and stepp into SM's shoes

@ Wolf , it does not prevent Piracy it provokes Piracy . If you run your legal licence it will be affected from the call home it will even periodically send a lock to get all SM versions down even if they have Permanent licences. If you run a unregistriert versions there servers will not be able to get into your system and leave you alone , so there goes honest people!

That's hokum. Locking my door when I go out does not provoke people into wanting to break in. I believe that people who pirate things, including software, are already inclined to do so, if for no other reason than to feed their own egos by proving that they can pirate it. Same reasons some people hack and steal.

The point is the phone home facilitates piracy. My legal copy of Windows 7 at 1 point started giving me the not legit screen. I called Microsoft and they gave me a new activation code, they also told me that my serial number (which I purchased at Newegg) had been used over 10,000 times and that all the pirates had to do (we have continuous internet connectivity now) was just locate a running instance and copy the serial number. They weren't surprised at all.

Okay, then, how does it make it easier to commit piracy?

I'm guessing that "locate a running instance" means that they copied the serial number BECAUSE the software was online.

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Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

EClark1894 posted at 1:00PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378550

movida posted at 1:22PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378541

EClark1894 posted at 11:35AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378522

Azath posted at 10:47AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378505

Guess we will see if they keep it in PP12 and stepp into SM's shoes

@ Wolf , it does not prevent Piracy it provokes Piracy . If you run your legal licence it will be affected from the call home it will even periodically send a lock to get all SM versions down even if they have Permanent licences. If you run a unregistriert versions there servers will not be able to get into your system and leave you alone , so there goes honest people!

That's hokum. Locking my door when I go out does not provoke people into wanting to break in. I believe that people who pirate things, including software, are already inclined to do so, if for no other reason than to feed their own egos by proving that they can pirate it. Same reasons some people hack and steal.

The point is the phone home facilitates piracy. My legal copy of Windows 7 at 1 point started giving me the not legit screen. I called Microsoft and they gave me a new activation code, they also told me that my serial number (which I purchased at Newegg) had been used over 10,000 times and that all the pirates had to do (we have continuous internet connectivity now) was just locate a running instance and copy the serial number. They weren't surprised at all.

Okay, then, how does it make it easier to commit piracy?

They don't need to generate a serial number that will read as "legit" - they get yours. They do a little port surfing and see what machine they can get into, check what software it's running and copy away :)

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 1:02PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378552

I'm guessing that "locate a running instance" means that they copied the serial number BECAUSE the software was online.

They don't copy the serial BECAUSE the software is online, it just gives them access while they're port surfing. If your software didn't have to phone home periodically you wouldn't be exposed.

Now consider how many phone home apps people are running on a given machine. A pattern is generated. It's easily identified.

I don't know. That's kinda like saying having a keyhole makes it easier for a crook to pick your lock.

EClark1894 posted at 4:23PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378584

I don't know. That's kinda like saying having a keyhole makes it easier for a crook to pick your lock.

Believe what you want

EClark1894 posted at 4:27PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378584

I don't know. That's kinda like saying having a keyhole makes it easier for a crook to pick your lock.

That's exactly what it does, therefore not having the keyhole prevents the crook from picking your lock

EClark1894 posted at 5:32PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378522

Azath posted at 10:47AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378505

Guess we will see if they keep it in PP12 and stepp into SM's shoes

@ Wolf , it does not prevent Piracy it provokes Piracy . If you run your legal licence it will be affected from the call home it will even periodically send a lock to get all SM versions down even if they have Permanent licences. If you run a unregistriert versions there servers will not be able to get into your system and leave you alone , so there goes honest people!

That's hokum. Locking my door when I go out does not provoke people into wanting to break in. I believe that people who pirate things, including software, are already inclined to do so, if for no other reason than to feed their own egos by proving that they can pirate it. Same reasons some people hack and steal.

That's it in a nutshell - a thief is a thief. Same thing as people who have more money than they know what to do with who go out shoplifting.

They will always try to justify it, but it's still theft.

Retrowave posted at 6:23PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378586

EClark1894 posted at 4:27PM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378584

I don't know. That's kinda like saying having a keyhole makes it easier for a crook to pick your lock.

That's exactly what it does, therefore not having the keyhole prevents the crook from picking your lock

Or you, from opening your own door.

TO DRAG THIS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC...

@ Jennblake: Has there been given any thought to a stripped-down "starter" version of Poser that the thread's OP's friend could avail? It really does seem like a natural of a product.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

As I said, back on page 1 of this thread. Poser comes with a 21 day free trial.

And then it's a couple of hundred dollars. So strip out some of the bells and whistles and sell it for a reduced price, like Photoshop Elements.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

SeanMartin posted at 4:19PM Tue, 04 February 2020 - #4379038

And then it's a couple of hundred dollars. So strip out some of the bells and whistles and sell it for a reduced price, like Photoshop Elements.

Someone recently asked about Poser Debut, apparently it's been discontinued.

I never used Debut, but if it's stripped down, won't you have to upgrade to get full function?

EClark1894 posted at 5:19PM Tue, 04 February 2020 - #4379061

I never used Debut, but if it's stripped down, won't you have to upgrade to get full function?

And that would be the whole idea: take out things like the cloth room, the hair room, and the face room; maybe remove the advanced side of the Materials room and Superfly capabilities, so you wind up with a basic but usable version for most rendering needs for a hobbyist. Sell it for thirty bucks. At the end of, say, two or three months, give the buyer the option to upgrade to the full program (probably with an "unlock" that would turn on all these missing capabilities) or keep it as is. Let the buyer decide if it's worth sticking with the basic one or moving on to a more fully-featured version. And then market the hell out of it.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

So all you want them to do in Poser is render?

EClark1894 posted at 6:18PM Tue, 04 February 2020 - #4379064

So all you want them to do in Poser is render?

Basically, yeah: position your hot-yo-mama, set your lights, hit the render button, and marvel at the art you made. C'mon, EClark, that's all a lot of people are interested in doing. They dont care about the difference between Firefly and Superfly. They probably dont even bother changing materials because most vendors have it done for them. They just want something they can use quick and dirty. A few months down the road, some of them will say, Hey, what else can this thing do? — and they'll consider upgrading to the full thing. But we're talking a basic, bare-bones version that doesnt cost two hundred bucks and can get more people trying this thing out. So why not provide a version that allows for that?

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

It's worth remembering that we never got confirmation on Bondware's plans for this. For all we know, they only tucked 2014 GameDev + Poser 11 + Poser 11 Pro into one Poser 11 Pro thing because otherwise they'd need to tamper with three different programs super quickly to issue those updates in time.

So we don't know if they plan to keep it one single version or more.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

People don't really grow unless they challenge themselves. Seems to me limiting the software will lead them to search elsewhere to learn. They may think well is this all there is?

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 6:40PM Tue, 04 February 2020 - #4379069

It's worth remembering that we never got confirmation on Bondware's plans for this. For all we know, they only tucked 2014 GameDev + Poser 11 + Poser 11 Pro into one Poser 11 Pro thing because otherwise they'd need to tamper with three different programs super quickly to issue those updates in time.

So we don't know if they plan to keep it one single version or more.

I don't know about game dev but P11 and 11Pro were identical. The additional features were unlocked with your serial key. This was no secret as SM made it clear in their forums multiple times.

Removing superfly and other features like the cloth room for a cheap version of the app would make a lot of the newer content unusable in that version. Pretty sure that's why Rosity consolidated everything into one version, for simplicity (and lowered the cost). No more confusion in the forums etc., for people that can't use this or that feature because they didn't buy the right version, then get frustrated and quit all together. And there's a 21 day fully functional free trial that anyone is able to download and play with. That's plenty of time to decide whether you want to buy the full version or not.

AmbientShade posted at 8:00PM Tue, 04 February 2020 - #4379072

I don't know about game dev but P11 and 11Pro were identical. The additional features were unlocked with your serial key. This was no secret as SM made it clear in their forums multiple times.

Don't quote me on this, but I have a strong feeling that they wanted to get functions like Copy Morphs From in everyone's hands. Which I very much appreciate, it makes creating stuff and making extra things functional for everyone much easier.

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Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

AmbientShade posted at 7:18PM Tue, 04 February 2020 - #4379072

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 6:40PM Tue, 04 February 2020 - #4379069

It's worth remembering that we never got confirmation on Bondware's plans for this. For all we know, they only tucked 2014 GameDev + Poser 11 + Poser 11 Pro into one Poser 11 Pro thing because otherwise they'd need to tamper with three different programs super quickly to issue those updates in time.

So we don't know if they plan to keep it one single version or more.

I don't know about game dev but P11 and 11Pro were identical. The additional features were unlocked with your serial key. This was no secret as SM made it clear in their forums multiple times.

Removing superfly and other features like the cloth room for a cheap version of the app would make a lot of the newer content unusable in that version. Pretty sure that's why Rosity consolidated everything into one version, for simplicity (and lowered the cost). No more confusion in the forums etc., for people that can't use this or that feature because they didn't buy the right version, then get frustrated and quit all together. And there's a 21 day fully functional free trial that anyone is able to download and play with. That's plenty of time to decide whether you want to buy the full version or not.

This is just me, but I would prefer a 30 day free trial.

EClark1894 posted at 7:39PM Tue, 04 February 2020 - #4379070

People don't really grow unless they challenge themselves. Seems to me limiting the software will lead them to search elsewhere to learn. They may think well is this all there is?

I daresay most users dont want to grow. They want to make some pretty pictures to show their friends or maybe to enjoy in the middle of the night when no one's looking. :-) That's all they want. They dont give a gosh darn about cloth dynamics or nodes or any of that, so why force it on them with a program more expensive than they really want?

If it's going to bring more people to this program, then I say go for it. Otherwise, the market will just shrink more and more. If that's the future you want for this thing, okay, so be it. But I say open the door and let them do what they want to do — and if it's just 43 versions of Naked LaFemme in her Secret Bedroom, fine.

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

A hobby is a hobby is a hobby. It's made for you to enjoy and relax. "Growing" at it isn't a requirement.

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Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Warning: rant on, after staying away from the forums for a few weeks but following recent threads.

Well, if you really want to kill Poser, do what SeanMartin suggests. Lower end graphics programs are for more than just female in temple with sword--that is so 1990s it's not even funny. Poser is used for many things that this myopic look at the galleries here does not even start to cover. DAZ is cornering the market for 'good clean fun' images because most of the stuff they released lately as not hookerwear (and Hivewire's DAZ versions releasing support that very, very much). People come here and that other site for that.

soapbox on And I still do not see the 'this is the new home of Poser' vibe on this site when you first see it. Again, because this is primarily is still a content brokerage, most of the paid ads and featured stuff is for DAZ figures, tendered under the exact same lights, looking the exact same. soapbox off

Poser needs the 21st century render engine, the new figures and as close as possible to be able to produce clean content-filled images, and something resembling a modern game-engine capability if it wants to remain competitive

People DO want to learn when they get software. Even old farts like me.

Did Elements kill Photoshop? Nope. It brought more users to the table.

If people want to learn more, they'll do it. Hell, I started with a bare bones 3D modelling program thirty years ago, and now I work with FormZ and StudioMax. But there are plenty of folks out there who simply dont want to. They want something simple and easy and provides immediate results. It's hardly myopic to say this market doesnt exist: look at any of the galleries — here or anywhere else 3D art is found — and you'll find plenty of people who took Figure A, Pose B, Lighting Set Up C, and Hit Render Button, because that's what they want to do.

And if you notice, I didnt mention NVIATWAS. :-) I doubt many of the newer users would even understand that. But NLFIHSB? Oh yeah, they'd get that.

And of course Poser is used for more than just that. I have some 5500 cartoons and countless book illustrations and a whopping cool portfolio that have come from it, and to be terribly immodest for a moment, it's damn good work. But that's just because I decided to go further than the NVIATWAS renders. A lot of people dont. They're perfectly content as is. But to expect that everyone will want to become a Master Poser User is about as silly as saying anyone who picks up Photoshop wants to be an Accredited Photoshop Genius. Like I said, I doubt most users could care about nodes or how well Poser works with other rendering engines or the intricacies of the Cloth Room. So let's not pretend that they're all out there wondering how best to set their Superfly specifications or the subtle nuance of lighting. They're not. A bare bones version is what the OP's friend wanted. She couldnt get it and didnt want to spend 250 — even with the free trial. So she dropped it and went with Studio. If that's what you guys want to see happen more and more... well, there you are. Hope it works for ya.

Off to get some illustration work done. Y'all have a nice day, eh?

docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider

From what I recall, the OP's friend made her decision before the Free Trial was even mentioned, so she never evaluated it. He can clarify.

My concern about a cut down version of Poser selling for about 30usd is two fold.

Firstly, how much do you cut it down? If you remove too many features users are going to feel disappointed with it's limitations, for example finding they can't use any dynamic clothing if the cloth room is removed. If you don't cut it down enough, you take away the motivation for people to upgrade. While Bondware/Rendo differs from SM in that they are looking at content sales as well as Poser sales this still doesn't seem a great idea.

Secondly, I don't see how trying to sell a program for 30usd that does less than its free competition is going to work, I don't see what its appeal would be.

IMHO Bondware was right to to consolidate poser down to one version.

It makes support alot easier.

In the context the OP's query I do not see how a stripped down $30 dollar version of poser is an attractive alternative to Free a full version of Daz studio with Iray.

The "Click load and render" user can just as easily ignore the advance features of his /her FREE Daz studio.

Conduct a Hoarding Raid on all of the freebie sites for starter content and click load& render from pre-sets without paying $30 USD.

And if, or when, they decide they want more than that , their only addtional cost would be curating more content ,on an as needed basis, from the Daz or Renderosity marketplace.

Not paying Daz again to unlock,Dforce,IRay the Graph editor /Dope sheet the Motion clip mixer,the transfer utility for rigging clothing with three mouse clicks or the FBX export options to send figures to other programs as those features will have been available to them for tinkering all along.

Look at what is happening in the 3D/CG software market in 2020. Features are where the competition is occuring. and the Hobby market is a tough place to try and sell software without very competitive features.?

If You do not go subscription(Like Reallusion has not) then you better have attractive,modern features and cross application export options to other High end Industry programs like RL's unreal4 live bridge/link.?

Or you need to be so far ahead of everyone else in features that the industry pros will keep buying your licenses& support contracts (Like SideFX Houdini)?

Or be a free program with foundation support (Blender 2.8x)?

Or be using a Loss leader business model like Daz where you have a profitable content store to offset your Development costs of your free program.

Tough market?

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I've used trial offer software before, and frankly I don't particularly like them. Some of the reasons are rather straightforward, for me. I couldn't save something I had spent a week or more working on, there were ridiculous watermarks on any finished work and I wouldn't be able to save or remove the watermark unless I paid for the full program. I don't even remember what program that was, but no, I don't think I bought it.