Forum: Poser 11 / Poser Pro 11 OFFICIAL Technical


Subject: animation

T_the_T opened this issue on Apr 28, 2020 ยท 7 posts


T_the_T posted Tue, 28 April 2020 at 1:06 PM

Hi all. I am trying to compose a scene with walk designer, but I cannot seem to add another layer that overrides the walk layer - I want one of the arms of my character to stay in the same pose through the animation. I've tried deleting keyframes in the animation palette, adding keyframes to the timeline, selecting layers... but the results keep getting worse lol.

I should know how to do this by now, but, well. Any help would be appreciated.


nerd posted Tue, 28 April 2020 at 2:49 PM Forum Moderator

Use a "Replace" layer. I suspect you're using an "Add" layer. that would be good if you wanted to tweak the walk without messing up what's already there. A situation like a hand on a hand rail where the are needs to not move will work best with the replace type layer.


Richard60 posted Sat, 02 May 2020 at 1:10 PM

You have to go back to Poser 9 if you want to use Layers. When they made Poser 10 they broke the Layers function and HAVE NOT WILL NOT fix it. To see this open a simple scene and go to frame 30 and do a simple movement (does not matter what, I use Y Translate). Now if you open the Graph editor you will see a linear line going from 0 at frame 1 to your value at frame 30. Now create a new Layer Start at 10 End at 20. Now place your timeline at 15 with the new layer selected and the part that you moved before click on the + button to add a new Key Frame. What should happen (which it does in Posers 6-9) is add a key Frame @ 10 Value of Zero, Key Frame @15 Value of Zero and Key Frame @20 Value of Zero) this is in BOTH Add and Replace Mode. However in Poser 10 or 11 what you get is a Key Frame at 10 Value whatever the Base Layer value is for the part, Some Weird Value for Key Frame 15 (Always between the straight line should have been and Zero) A Spike back up at Frame 19 and then dropping to Zero on Key Frame 20.

If you are using Poser 9 you could then take the small segment and drag it back and forth across the whole timeline to get it matched up. IF you do this in Poser 10/11 it distorts the other Key Frames making a mess of the Whole thing.

In ALL versions of Poser you have to switch between Add and Replace in order to be able to make changes to the values on Layers AND/OR move the Layer to the Top slot. Although this still does not work right in Poser 10 or 11. I have submitted multiple tickets about this to both Smith Micro and Bondware and with each release download and check to see if it has been fixed. So far no luck.

SO if you want to do animation in Poser 10 or 11 you Have too do it all on the Base Layer and anything that askes if you want to make a new layer (such as Walk Designer) say no. This will mean you SHOULD make a backup copy of your scene each time you want to add something like this to a scene.

The biggest problem this BUG causes is that I cannot import a BVH file and add a simple Layer to make small adjustments to a movement without hand editing each frame one by one.

IF the Development team wishes to get more information about this please ask.

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13


Richard60 posted Sat, 02 May 2020 at 1:53 PM

To add a visual so you can see what Poser Should do and what Poser 10 and 11 actually do.

Here is what Poser 6-9 do when you Add a Layer:

How Poser 9 makes a layer.jpg

And here is what Poser 10 and 11 do:

How Poser 11 makes a layer.png

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13


Richard60 posted Sat, 02 May 2020 at 4:20 PM

To further show the problem see the below: The first image is a BVH file movement imported to show what Layers could be used to do, it also is similar to what you get from Walk Designer. Notice each frame is keyed and lets say that frame 55 is to low and needs to be raised up.

100 Frames Poser 9 1 single.jpg

Now in Poser 9 if I added a new Layer and made it an Add instead of Replace we get the following:

100 Frames Poser 9 2 second layer.jpg

Now you could try to move each frame by hand a lot of work or as can be seen in the next image by moving just one point we can get a smooth slope that does not cause a jerking movement in the play out.

100 Frames Poser 9 3 second layerAdd correction.jpg

The next image is looking at the Base layer and you can see the RED line which is the current layer movement has remained the same. The Black Line is the actual movements that will be used in the animation. The next image is what happens when you convert the Mode from Add to Replace. In this image I have moved the First and Second Key Frames on the Adjustment Layer to change the overall shape. A Problem in all versions of Poser is the Last Frame in a Layer CANNOT be adjusted from Zero.

100 Frames Poser 9 5 last frame replace.jpg

Now I will show what happens with Poser 11. We have the same BVH file:

100 Frames Poser 11 1 Base layer only.jpg

And the Next Image shows what happens when you try to add an additional Layer to do the nice simple adjustment as was shown above in Poser 9:

100 Frames Poser 11 2 layer at 0.jpg

The RED line sort of shows a Zero Addition to the overall influence to the Black Line, however Even though the 3 Key Frames on the RED line have a internal Value of Zero (if you were to look at the values in a saved scene) you would never know that by looking at the chart.
The next image shows a Serious BUG in 10 and 11 in that if you TRY to move the center point (any point really) it will jump to another Undefined value. Note instead of making the downward curve a little less sharp it now is inverted. And in the next image In poser 11 if you try you move the center point Notice it does not change the shape of the BLACK line.

As a last comment: In Poser 6-9 if I move the Adjustment Layer back and forth it will Simply do as the Poser Manual says the Add or Replace Modes work. However in Poser 10-11 It will Destroy the movements of the Base Layer especially as you have to switch back and forth between ADD and REPLACE Mode because Not all movement options work in Layers also won't work if more then 1 additional layer is added.

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13


nerd posted Sun, 03 May 2020 at 5:47 PM Forum Moderator

@Richard60 There is an issue with the display in the graphs getting out of sync with the actual key values. If you save and reload the scene the graphs will re-sync. Yes, it's an old bug and has not been pinned in too long.

@T_the_T Did using a replace layer help with your needs? There are lots of ways to get the result you need. We'll find one that works for you.


Richard60 posted Sun, 03 May 2020 at 7:36 PM

The problem is not with the Graphs prese The movement follows the exact outline. So I just made a scene and Y Trans LaFemme up 3.3 units without the second Layer at Frame 14 She is 1.5 above the ground. And she raises the same amount with each frame. Now when the second layer is enabled the Value at Frame 14 is .0492 and it goes up from there on either side, Her movement mirrors what the Red Line shows because it is the exact same as the BLACK line which is what she should follow. The fact that she goes up from Frame 1 to Frame 10 then goes down to a low at Frame 14 and then again raises to meet the Black Line real value at Frame 19 means that it is not just a visual problem with the graph. It would be a really bad state to have to save and reload the scene each time I made a change to the Layers values to RE-sync everything.

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13