Hi,

I've been having fun with the facial chips for L'Homme and made a quirky expression that I really like. I saved it out as an expression file but what I'd really love is a way to make it a dial so little bits of it can be used at a time to mix with other dials.

Any help with this?

Thanks so much!

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Netherwork's spawn.

Dependency Editor.

And probably some waaaaay more obvious method that someone will post in about 5 seconds.

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I would just use the Spawn scripts to one click it into an ERC, setting the controller in the head.

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Hmm, I think I have his ToyBox. Is that script in there?

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Found it here at Renderosity but not sure if it works in Poser Pro 11

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It does. Perfectly. Also you might want to grab Content Creators Toybox. Both are godsends. CCT is a separate product. They're worth the money. All of his scripts are.

Incidentally, D3d's Perfect Skin works in 11 pro if you install Snarly's AVFix. AVFix also fixes a bunch of other scripts that were broken. I recall you had problems with Perfect Skin SSS.

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I bought the ToyBox (which I think NW's updated for more current versions) a little while back at Hivewire 3D. I just redownloaded it and installed it. Good to know about Spawn 2014 working still. I'll get that as well!

Thank you so much!

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You're welcome. Glad I could help.

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The built in way is to use Dependent Parameters. Create a new Master Parameter by clicking on the little white triangle at the side of the Parameters palette and name it. Go to Keyed Dependencies, teach the maximum first, then zero everything, then teach the minimum if required. So press Start Teaching, set the Master dial to 1, set whatever controls you want at their maximum effect, then set the Master dial to zero and make sure all those Parameters are zeroed. Test it and adjust the Settings for your new dial. Then you can make your own dial groups, name them how you like, drag them into an arrangement you like, nest them, and so on.

Refer to the manual - Parameter Dial Groups p219 and Editing Master Parameters, p822.

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The way I usually use expressions is to use the animation slider. I apply the expression morph at frame 30 or so, then adjust the slider until I get what I like.

Of course, Caisson's solution is much more sophisticated

Just make sure that you DON'T use a "zero expressions" pose .pz2 to zero the expressions!

I you do, ALL expression dials will be added to the dependant parametes list, which will blow up your character and may cause trouble with other expressions.

So go step by step:

• Set value 1,000 and dial in everything you need
• Now set value to 0,000 and ZERO all dials used before, "ONE BY ONE". Repeat: "DO NOT use a "zero expressions" pose .pz2 to zero the expressions!"

It's a bit tedious (like many of Poser's functions). But it's worth the extra time to keep you out of trouble and getting inexpected results in the future.

I think I'll just use Netherworks script. Hopefully he includes a way to make a zero expression option.....

Thanks folks!

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KarinaKiev posted at 9:14AM Fri, 22 May 2020 - #4389772

It's a bit tedious (like many of Poser's functions). But it's worth the extra time to keep you out of trouble and getting inexpected results in the future.

Yes a 'zero the dependent parameters at zero dial setting' button would be very helpful.

Here's another vote in favor of Netherworks' Spawn script (and really, all of his scripts! I have most of them and they work just fine on Poser Pro 11.3).

As for saving a "zeroed" version of a custom expression, you could do that using Netherworks' Dial Manager script, which lets you save pose files or expression files with only the items you want to be included. You can save selection sets, which would also make it easy to also save a "dialed in" version with only the same items included. That's the only way I'd use expression presets to create a Master Parameter within Poser (without using Netherworks' Spawn, which I also have) b/c of the problem Karina mentioned: when "teaching" a Master Parameter dial how to behave, any dial you adjust in the process will get recorded, so you want to be sure only to adjust the dials you need to create the expression. If you applied a standard .fc2 expression (not saved with Dial Manager), it would add every available dial on the head to your Master Parameter, not just the ones that you dialed in, and that creates a real mess!

Two more nifty things about Netherworks' Dial Manager script: it has a way of detecting which dials have changed from their initial value, which can be nifty if you want to save the values only for those dials; and it can also "resolve" ERC dials so that the pose or expression can be applied to a copy of the figure that doesn't have the ERC dial.

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Yea, it's too bad that Joe is no longer around but he got a better gig, I think in Hollyweird but I could be wrong. Be nice to have some refit scripts for various figures for La'Femme and L'Homme. I mean I can do a fit easy enough in ZBrush but allot of folks don't have ZBrush or just don't like the idea of opening up an external program to do a proper refit of hair or clothing! He is missed. I hope he's doing OK!

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The hair refit for La homme would be tricky. La homme is a different scale/height than the daz Mikes, so it's a morph ( the easy part) plus you have to manually translate and scale the hair before parenting. Whereas La Femme is the same height as v4 and there's a free skull morph for her that allows you to use your v4 hairs on her. I've tried it and it works great. You simply apply the morph, load the hair and parent.

I recently picked up Evilinnocence's Crossdresser license for La Femme and the morph addon, haven't tried it yet but it comes highly recommended. There's more to fitting conformers with multiple actors to another figure than a trip to Zbrush. Well... unless you know how to rig for Poser?

Anyway, you might want to check out Crossdresser for La Homme if you want to convert clothing to the figure. Once you make the conversion/transfer the rig you can use the built in adjustment morphs to fix any nastiness or go further with Poser's morph brush or zbrush for fix morphs ;)

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For La Femme it seems like dynamic is getting top priority in terms of clothes being made for her. There's some really nice dynamic stuff. Deecey seems to be the one that's consistently making high quality conformers for her... I'm hoping that La Femme sticks around for a while. I've grown fond of the figure.

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What I've done for the last couple of refits and even bringing body shapes that I made for another figure (Dusk) I just load up DAZ Studio, load the hair, use GoZ to get into ZBrush and refit the hair there, take it back to DAZ Studio and save it out as an OBJ in Poser format, works better than anything I've found so far. I've not tried Cross Dresser yet for hair refits. I think it does a good job with clothing but never tried it with hair!

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Ah. I hear DS is pretty good with making refits and transferring rigs etc. Looks like you're good to go. Disregard my insane ramblings lol ;)

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Hey, if there is tidbits of useful information in your ramblings I'll take them! LOL

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Decided it was time to revisit this. Well I had no luck with Netherworks script. It kept telling me there were dials not set to 0.0000 well DUH. I have a mixture of the chips and other dials like eye wince combined. It seems the script will not allow for that?? Strange.

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Save your scene before proceeding. Absolute zero fig all but those dials active you want included.

Run Spawn 2014

Set limits, trackingScale(dial sensitivity), and location of master dial...

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You'll be presented with this, the no duh part that hinders your progress...

Just click Yes...

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...which will lead to this. Self explanatory but maybe a little daunting. Your choice here. Only you know really what to choose. Any uncertainty about various and ask...

Click Ok...

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And here's the dialogue that will give you an actual list of all active settings. Pick only those that you deliberately want included. There will be a lot of JCMs and stuff there, ignore those and check only what your expression dial requires...

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AH, OK, the checkboxes were the issue. I should have unchecked the two top ones.

I did make 5 expressions using the chips just now. Quite pleased with myself! LOL

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Click ok and there's your controller.

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RAMWolff posted at 1:33PM Sun, 30 August 2020 - #4398168

AH, OK, the checkboxes were the issue. I should have unchecked the two top ones.

I did make 5 expressions using the chips just now. Quite pleased with myself! LOL

Hm. Are you certain that the control chips contain no rotations? you'll want to experiment and test.

I've been using a combination of spawn and the dependency editor to create my expressions. Copying to inject requires some experimentation also regarding prior statement.

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Custom face with eye and mouth part translations linked to morph and set up with master controllers, custom smile. Used both spawn and the dependency editor. At the moment there's several controllers but they'll all be baked down once I'm finished with custom mouth open expressions... all copy to inject.

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And likewise...

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Yea, the chips I use a combination of just about all of the dials including scaling which can make areas like the lips look more natural when making smiles and frowns!

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For face expressions with the chips it's not really that important but for body stuff be aware of copy centers to command. Additionally you can set up linked dependencies that will reposition the chips to match new centers and morph location. I did so in my breast morph presets. In general I've found that unless you are doing very extreme morphs the chips work pretty well still without the copy centers to...

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RAMWolff, be careful with scales. They might not copy properly to injection files... something to be aware of.

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Hmmm, I'll have to see how they work. I'm working on skin stuff now! LOL Back and forth, back and forth!

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Taking a break from La Femme and making a freebie for V4 that's been laying around unfinished. Also playing with Glidman's free NoName Doll... would have probably been better served by a toon render, different camera settings, and better lighting, the figure's texture files and eye setup are more geared toward that rather than GI. NoName Doll, despite her toon leanings, comes with a gang of nice content and bends pretty darned good! Surprised no one has made replacement prop eyes for her with proper iris, pupil, and cornea. Easy ;)

Anyway, just being conversational and sharing... sorry for OT. Woolgathering. My reward for answering your query for which I can just about guarantee nobody would have answered. It wasn't about Superfly, which about 5 people exactly know how to use, or "which hair is this" or "I can't get V4 to install" or "Poser is doomed! Genesis Blah blah". I find that Rendo banner "Poser Pulse; Feel it getting stronger" hilariously self defeatist to be honest.

Best wishes

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Since I have my expressions completed I was now looking forward to following your directions but in Spawn 2014 I'm not seeing (at the bottom) "Create Controller" or "Key Unsupported" I'm seeing "Spawn Morphs" only. So not sure what or where I would change what Spawn does to make these controllers viewable!

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OK, got it figured out with the little right sided arrow presenting me with different tools.

So Spawn 2014 doesn't support L'Homme properly. The chips are not in the line up and it keeps telling me that body parts are rotated but they are not rotated, they ARE zeroed out so not sure why Spawn 2014 is telling me something different! So I guess I gotta figure this out differently, perhaps the path that caisson talked about above?

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I just don't get the "Teach" command at all. Do I apply the expression to the figure and then hit the Teach button? I don't see anything popping into the dependencies dialog. This doesn't seem intuitive to me, so sorry to be such a pita!

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Example. How to create a master controller for LF expression chips with dependency editor.

Load figure.

Disable any active IK. Zero Figure

Select figure's head.

Click white triangle at top right corner of parameters; Create new Master Parameter.

Dependency editor will open. You want to be in the Keyed Dependencies tab.

Click Start Teaching. Set dial next to start teaching to 1.

Select right lip control chip and set lower-raise dial to 0.200

Select left lip control chip and set lower-raise dial to 0.200

Go to master dial next to start teaching and set that dial to 0

Select right lip control chip and set lower-raise dial to 0

Select left lip control chip and set lower-raise dial to 0

Click stop teaching.

Zero figure

Go to figure's head and find your new master controller in the Other parameter group. Test. You'll see that the master controls those 2 control chips at the corner of LF's mouth now. Setting this dial to 1 will raise both her left and right control chips by a value of 0.200.

Clicking settings (little triangle to right of relevant dial) will let you create limits on the dial. For this controller I want a value of 0 as my minimum and a value of 1 as maximum. This isn't a morph per se so dialing values past 1 will have no meaningful effect. The translations were only taught to a specific value in the dependencies. We want the value 1 in the master to reflect the value limits (0.2) of what we taught. Not setting limits will result in a free spinning master dial that will dial values past what we set to no meaningful effect for the dependencies. Be sure to check Force Limits after setting up your preferred values.

Also you can adjust dial sensitivity in the settings of the dial. Setting the value to 1 here will make the dial an absolute ON OFF dial. Setting the value to 0.0200 will be an average fast dial. Setting the value to 0.004 will be a sluggish dial.

If redistribution is a thing I would bake down my control chip expressions to morphs. File: Export: Wavefront Object: Head. All options unchecked. Apply export as morph target. There's your expression baked down to a morph. Up to you if you want to copy centers to. For expressions I wouldn't bother.

Control chip derived expressions won't save to the Faces library. They need to be saved as a select subset Pose....

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Is there a way, since I have these saved out already at Fc2 files to use the time line to create a dial?

I have the figure set to zero on frame one and then on frame 30 I applied the expression and I can scrub back and forth and see what I'm after easily but then it begs the question if I can then set up a dial using this method?

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How did you manage to save your control chip expressions to save as Fc2? I've only had success with Pz2.

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RAMWolff posted at 2:27PM Wed, 09 September 2020 - #4399014

Is there a way, since I have these saved out already at Fc2 files to use the time line to create a dial?

I have the figure set to zero on frame one and then on frame 30 I applied the expression and I can scrub back and forth and see what I'm after easily but then it begs the question if I can then set up a dial using this method?

Probably. Let me know how it goes.

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Not sure why your Fc2's are not saving out. Mine do.

Well I'm not very good at the internal knowing's of Poser so I have no idea how to set up a way to save out a time line use of my expressions via the dependencies "Teach" tool

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Learn something new every day.

La Femme's expressions can only be saved as Fc2 if you are using the yellow rotate dials to create the expressions. These are renamed as Twist (actually zRotate), Side-Side (yRotate), Up-Down (xRotate)

If you happen to use the orange Translate dials; Right-Left (xTran), Lower-Raise (yTran), In-Out (zTran) they won't save as Fc2 but rather only as Pz2.

Weird. Minor mystery solved.

Can't help you with the animation bit. I haven't played with it in years. Keyed dependencies are very much like key frames in animation though. But like I said animation isn't my thing. I also try not to muddy up things by introducing more complications than already exist.

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My expressions use MOST of what the chips offer, they all reload to the face just fine!

Yea, I tried creating a new Master Parameter, naming it and then hit the Teach button and slide the timeline slider back and forth and stopped it. Nothing when I use the slider so that's a bust. Looks like this will be a hard NO for having control over the expressions with a slider! SAD!

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I'm going to try one more thing if I can make it work. Export the posed face out to ZBrush and import it back in as a morph target and see if that will work!

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Yeah. You don't need to go to Zbrush to do that.

Zero your figure.

Dial the expression.

File export wavefront object. Select the head only. Leave everything unchecked. Reimport to head properties as morph target: load morph target. A morph dial will appear in head that contains only the deformations as a morph. In the head. Not as a PBM or FBM, totally unnecessary, that GoZ will create. Poser 101. Load morph target.

Remember I said this?

"If redistribution is a thing I would bake down my control chip expressions to morphs. File: Export: Wavefront Object: Head. All options unchecked. Apply export as morph target. There's your expression baked down to a morph. Up to you if you want to copy centers to. For expressions I wouldn't bother."

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That is unless you want a bunch of dials in the Body of the figure for expressions that are in the Head?

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Ah, OK. Sorry, was doing a client, he's gone now. I can get back to work.

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Hmmm, before I do this, in the export dialog there are ALLOT of parts to the head. Do I check all of those or just the entry "Head" ?

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Just head. Click the top box for Universe to clear out everything. Then just select the head. You want to capture all the deformations made to the Head actor by the various bones of the face. Reimport as morph target to the head. Zero out your expression. Dial new morph to 1. There's the expression deformations without all the bones being involved...

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Eye and Jaw part transformations need to be recorded in other ways. And boy is THAT an understatement lol.

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You might want to read this thread... it may contain some information about things you've asked about in the past. At the time I was too tired to answer...

The latter part with my correction morph info, and the process of subtracting a morph, might be of interest. Although you might not see it, the solution to some of your morph problems is contained in the demo...

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2951278

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Thank you so much!

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Thank you for the link by the way. Reading now.

Oh and the import through the Head Properties doesn't work....

This is Expression 01 dialed... I did go ahead after this issue below and try to load the export in as a full body morph and it doesn't do anything. This is a mess!

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I can't make my instructions any more clear. But I'll try.

That's a scaling issue. I'll try one more time. If you look at the 2 morph packages that I released as freebies for La Femme you'll find head morphs and FBMs with dependencies created via both Spawn and the Dependency Editor. Including the copy centers command in some of them. ALL working. In Injection Files. Now you tell me that nope this doesn't work. Nope that doesn't work. Nope this doesn't work.

But Ok...

Here's La Femme... I loaded her and Zero Figure. Turned off IK. Went to her head and made a goofy simple expression with the face chips...

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File: Export

WaveFront Object

Click Universe to clear Hierarchy

Select only Head

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

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Export. ALL BOXES UNCHECKED.

Named morph target Blah.

Zero La Femme.

Go to Head Properties

Load Morph Target.

Load Blah Obj.

Dial to 1 Blah morph dial...

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Here's the Injection File...

Blah INJ...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_JBtZNUt5_LtFP9Zdh7ShEcghB29d0rQ/view?usp=drivesdk

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Literally takes like 10 minutes to do. 1 morph target. With pictures. And an INJ.

An expression morph derived from deformations created by face bones... o o

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I figured it out with some hints from Cliff. Seems that L'Homme loads into Poser at 0.500 %. This should be looked at by Rendo to make sure this is universal throughout including making sure it works that way for content creators. What I had to do was just put him at 0.000 and all the expressions exported and reimported were fine after that.

All that was left to do was add in the morphs for my fibermesh eyebrows (which I can't seem to save out as a CR2, crashes Poser! BUT they work great in the scene file so I MAY have to just save out the Scene file as a product load file if that will work! They imported fine, they conformed fine and they take morph targets fine like my expressions but exporting them as a CR2 .... for what ever reason they crash Poser! They were created in ZBrush and have been used for Genesis with no issues! I refitted them to L'Homme since I'm making a Poser version of Gino for him that sort of matches the Gino I made for Genesis 8 Male so I wanted similar elements to be exact like the brows. So not sure what's going on with them when trying to save them out as a conformer in CR2 format.

---Wolff On The Prowl---

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Ah. I see. I just assumed that L'Homme would be at default scale and operate like La Femme. To be honest I don't think I've ever even looked at L'Homme.

Judging from all the content creator horror stories related to the figure that I've seen, not much incentive to ever bother...

Glad you got it sorted.

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W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5

My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE