I assembled the Daz3D Genesis8 Female with Sue character and clothes and hair. I exported it all to FBX in the default A pose. I imported the FBX into Poser Pro 11 and adjusted the shaders. I posed the figure inside Poser Pro 11. I used my 360 background image for illumination. The floor is the square plane and the low wall is the open-ended cylinder from the Poser default contents, and used Vince Bagna's Cycles shaders for them. The open sheet is from Most Digital Creations with a Vince Bagna Cycles shader applied. I rendered using SuperFly. There is no light in this scene. The face rig exports as well, so I can do some expressions. Yes, I posed her manually, including her fingers.

public post here - https://www.deviantart.com/ibr-remote/art/Gen8Fem-FBX-posed-and-rendered-in-Poser-Pro-11-858451309 public image post here

thumbnail :

Import of a standard FBX biped rig has been possible since poser pro "Game Dev" IIRC

But here is the thing,?

That is not literally a Genesis 8 female you have rendered there in poser 11, but merely a saved out copy of a basic Rigged biped figure that resembles the Character you exported from Daz studio.

All of the Multi-gigabytes of JCM & HD morph Data that makes the Genesis Characters look ,and perform so well in Daz studio by live streaming them into the character in realtime, have been left behind in your Daz studio Data folder

Her elbow joints look like over cooked macaroni, worse than V4 in Poser IMHO?

This is not what most people mean when they say they want "Genesis support in Poser"

Sure.. Daz has recently released a set of specific plugins to send Genesis 8 figures to other programs Like Blender and Maxon C4D Autodesk Max and created new forums for user to discuss those apps.

Those plugins export a Genesis 8 along with the JCM Data and what you get is an uber bloated, 6-19 gigbyte behemoth in C4D or Max that bogs the program down to an unusable crawl.?

Also NONE of the Daz plugins export animation Data to those pro apps where people are more likey to be doing professional animation.

This is the true FAILURE of the Daz genesis figure platform as a desirable solution for 3D/CG professionals needing to work outside of Daz's Kindergarden software ?

Lastly the majority of the poser users, who post here, have Zero interest in any "Genesis solution" that involves having to install,learn & maintain the Daz studio software.

What would make an optimised Poser figure, then ? The Daz3D figures and morphs are computationally heavy, true. The only other solution is natively rigged figure geometry inside Poser, but then again, not exactly sure of that would make them computationally lightweight. ??

All these rigging and morphing bells and whistles are needed only because the shape in which the geometry is used is different from the shape in which the geometry was defined. Most effecive way to get to optimized figures therefore is to define them in a shape that is not far off from the average shape they are i tended to be used in:

• zero pose being a representative 'average' pose. Less deformation is less faults to compensate.
• shape representing shape to use. Reduce 'versatility' that is hardly ever used.
• realistic limits in use. I see very few images featuring a contortionist, so why carry the weight of JCM's supporting that sort of poses.
• what is not visible is not needed. In many cases the only parts of a figure that are visible is head and hands. No need to have defined body or legs.

In a real studio the models come as they are, with their age, face characteristics, body length, BMI, et cetera. A 90 kg male cannot suddenly become a 55 kg female. If the studio wants a 55 kg female for a project they hire a 55 kg female.

If the weight for all the versatility of our Poser figures becomes a problem, we need a 'character room' where we can 'cast' the figure(s) we want to use and compile a lean 'production version' for use in the pose room.

I think the appeal of "versatile" figures is that you can use the same textures and clothing for them. Not a concern for big studios, digital or otherwise.

But I wonder if it's worth it, even for hobbyists. I don't think L'Homme is a realistic male, and I think it's because the original mesh was female. In particular, his shoulders look awful. IMO, being able to put LH in LF's clothes is not worth those horrible shoulders.

I really liked the idea of the G2 figures, though the implementation wasn't great. Instead of one figure fits all there were three different ones. They could wear the same clothing, but the heads were different, which make them look a lot more natural, especially the expressions.

Though most Rosity users, at least, seem mostly interested in 20 year old, unrealistically attractive white females. Maybe they should just lean into that.

I would say that vendors are more interested in the Logan's Run look. The whole reason I am blowing my money on G figures & content is because they make more than those early 20 white girls and trashy outfits.

As the OP pointed out, it is easy to export it out of DS and into Poser - and I don't care if it is a "Real" G8 or a Sear's G8.

BTW, Wolf - there is a way to strip them down, memory-wise.

What would make an optimised Poser figure, >then ? The Daz3D figures and morphs are >computationally heavy, true. The only other >solution is natively rigged figure geometry >inside Poser, but then again, not exactly sure >of that would make them computationally >lightweight.

A native poser figure with alot of morphs could be as computationally heavy as they wanted as long as the figure remains in poser and only invokes the morph Data when called upon with a slider/Dial etc.

This is exactly how the Daz genesis figure function>>>INSIDE DAZ STUDIO<

I think the appeal of "versatile" figures is >that you can use the same textures and >clothing for them. Not a concern for big >studios, digital or otherwise.

Not a concern as long as all of those textures and clothing assets are developed for use within whatever specific Eco system/ game engine the studio happens to be using.

Look at the character customization options in any Story Driven game title like "Cyberpunk 2077" and you see nearly as much versatility as you see in Daz studio but those assets are custom built for those specific Character bases within those specific Eco systems.

However you have to choose a specific 3D Character Eco system ,that you like, and work within it.

notice that you Never see Video Gamers asking: *why has no one created a way to use my Mechanoid characters from "Titan Fall" over in my copy of "Overwatch" or in "Halo"??*?

Using third party figures ,not specifically built to take advantage of every feature within your Core software application has never been a logical approach?

Hence all of the Failed/abandoned/aborted third party figures for poser.

Hence Bondware's removal of vestigial poser features that dont work with LF/LH in poser 12.( faceroom)

Reallusion finally realized this with the CC3 figure bases that uses advanced shape projection technology to make a NATIVE Iclone avatars look like any imported Genesis 1,2,3,8 Character who uses our Iclone native morph system to have maximum compatibilty with all of Iclone's Character animation/body & facial mocap tools and converts the clothing skin maps to iclone native content with one mouse click.?

It is quite Ironic that Daz used the same approach of existing content compatibilty to ease the transition Away from poser to Daz studio with Genesis one.

Now Reallusion makes it equally painless to move assets from Daz studio to the Iclone eco system and even has an optional Iray engine plugin. ?

Though most Rosity users, at least, seem >mostly interested in 20 year old, >unrealistically attractive white females. Maybe they should just lean into that.

You find that is the case in western entertainment culture in general.

What Daz has to failed to understand is that this is not the year 2003.?

Adobe Fuse ,Reallusion, Epic Unity,nearly everyone ,in late 2020, has their resources for their own young, pretty ,ideal BMI white girls,purpose built for thier specific Character eco systems .

And they dont see the production value of any labor intensive vicissitudes involved in force fitting a fully morphed exported genesis chicky-poo, into a software eco system for which they were not designed/optimized.

ssgbryan posted at 12:36PM Sun, 18 October 2020 - #4401722

I would say that vendors are more interested in the Logan's Run look. The whole reason I am blowing my money on G figures & content is because they make more than those early 20 white girls and trashy outfits.

As the OP pointed out, it is easy to export it out of DS and into Poser - and I don't care if it is a "Real" G8 or a Sear's G8.

BTW, Wolf - there is a way to strip them down, memory-wise.

Sure there is. become an advanced Daz studio "Super user", who can figure out how to correctly build a secondary so called "Skinny" content directory and only install the specific figure morphs in that Data folder that you can switch over to before export to Blender,Max etc using the new Daz export plugins .

or alternatively use the GENX2 plugin to manually remove all of the unneeded bloatware morphs from the figure in your scene before export to othe 3DCC's using the Daz new export plugins.

Great discussion, Everyone. Pivoting back to Poser software environment, I think - as has been mentioned - a figure already with the geometry of say, bulky female or emancipated male, should already be prepared, prior to rigging inside Poser. Yet it is also true that custom figures have seen limited commercial success over the longer timeline.

Also, we need to ask - who is the user ? I suppose the entry-level hobbyist who wants a quick route to a pin-up render won't care too much about complexities of software or assets. Large studios on the other end of the specturm, would be able to create their own assets.

Back to the "weight" issue. I don't think heavy assets work in a 3D VR environment, do they ?

I think ssgbryan is talking about reducing the bloated figures within Cinema (Max, Maya etc.).

The large file size is just a consequence of the default way Cinema stores morphs but it's relative easy to clean out all the extra copies of the mesh and just store the morph deltas. You can get your 6GB file back down to 600MB!

What is causing those 'bent straw' arms, isn't it a weight-mapping problem not a JCM problem?

The large file size is just a consequence of the default way >Cinema stores morphs but it's relative easy to clean out all >the extra copies of the mesh and just store the morph deltas. >You can get your 6GB file back down to 600MB!

And 600 MB for one single naked G8 girl, who is not even carrying animation Data, is supposed to get C4D users excited about using the Daz genesis figures??.?

so with two naked G figures standing there in C4D ,doing nothing I would aready be at 1.2 gigs of Data before even trying to animate them.?

Yes..you can Blame C4D for some of this however people are reporting similar File bloat with Blender using the official Daz exporter

The attached frame is of an entire animated environment I built in Blender 2.9 last week, I have imported two Iclone Character creator 3 figures (wearing My custom made clothing)Via FBX from CC3, both figures have about 300 frames of animation each and those video monitor screens are 1200 frame animated textures to show activity for this animated shot.

total Data size of the saved Blend scene file is 514 mb!?

Also, we need to ask - who is the user ? I suppose the entry->level hobbyist who wants a quick route to a pin-up render won't >care too much about complexities of software or assets. Large >studios on the other end of the specturm, would be able to >create their own assets.

The still image portrait/pin up crowd (that is the majority of DAZ/Poser users) are the ones who benefit most from staying within one Character eco system.

Trying to move Daz genesis Characters outside the Daz studio software with thier required bloatware intact, is simply not worth the extra work and these new plugins from Daz wont change that for the majority of people using true 3DCC apps Like Blender ,Maya C4D Max or even the free game engines like UE4& unity ?

infinity10 posted at 8:04AM Mon, 19 October 2020 - #4401746

Great discussion, Everyone. Pivoting back to Poser software environment, I think - as has been mentioned - a figure already with the geometry of say, bulky female or emancipated male, should already be prepared, prior to rigging inside Poser. Yet it is also true that custom figures have seen limited commercial success over the longer timeline.

Also, we need to ask - who is the user ? I suppose the entry-level hobbyist who wants a quick route to a pin-up render won't care too much about complexities of software or assets. Large studios on the other end of the specturm, would be able to create their own assets.

"Who is the user" is the key question, IMO. I always got the impression that Poser users were more corporate than, say, DS users. You see that in the figures and clothing offered. Aside from the limited edition Winter Queen Jessie, the stuff Poser came with was for contemporary, ordinary looking characters. They were not super attractive. They came with ordinary clothing, business suits, etc., not the spiky heeled boots, catsuits, etc. V3 and V4 were released with. And when I've seen Poser "in the wild," it's been for forensic animations, corporate training videos, etc. Where the figures are supposed to be ordinary people, not pinup babes or fantasy warriors.

Those users generally don't buy add-ons, though. And if they do, they're not looking for sexy outfits. Occasionally someone has wandered in here, wanting to know how to make Posette's boobs smaller, so they're not "distracting" in their training video. Once there was someone who wanted to buy Jessi a construction hardhat and orange safety vest for their safety video. Not exactly the top sellers here at Rosity.

So I wonder if the average user will change, now that Rosity's in charge. It's probably in their interest to appeal more to customers who might buy stuff in RMP (and the new in-program installer suggests that is the path they're following).

I have a feeling both Poser and DS's markets are being nibbled at, from both the lower and upper ends. I see a lot of images and animations now being done using games like The Sims, which is quick and easy for the more casual user. People are who are willing to deal with more of a learning curve have options like Blender.

Randym77, Poser has always been the professional 3d world's dirty little secret. It is fast, and doesn't require that the end user have extensive training. It is why you see Poser images and animations at the grocery store, on American Airlines, etc.

I have always preferred Poser native figures for exactly the reasons that you have mentioned - I need realistic figures in realistic clothing, in realistic situations (well, until the Eldritch horrors start coming out of the corners). This is also why I am spending less and less money here - I prefer shopping here, but with the All Caucasians, all the time, and all of the trashy outfits, my money goes elsewhere. I hope 'Rosity isn't under the delusion that tacky pin up art will "save" Poser.

Prixat & Wolf - I was talking about how to get a slimmed down version of the G figures (and other DS content) in Poser. If you plan ahead, it is actually pretty easy. It is a geries of very simple steps. (delete any unused morphs in the Data folder) My G are around 100Mb each. The key is deleting every unused morph in DS. If you don't do this, every unused morph (each taking about 1Mb of ram) makes the figures unwieldy.

You can do almost the exact same thing in Poser - Dial you character out to what you want, and then use the Dials to single morph Command. Once you have the FBM, save it as an injection & voila!. Poser also has the combine figures command, which will merge clothing with a character into s single figure. And then there is the Reduce Polygons command, which can shrink it even more.

I wonder if Rosity will continue supporting that, though. LF and LH kind of break the mold. They don't come with a wardrobe of "normal" clothing like the previous Poser default figures had. The LF clothing that's included in the free content is not anything I can imagine wearing to work. LF isn't going to be featured driving a forklift in those skimpy dresses.

Though I suppose there's still the older figures for that kind of thing. We may be reaching the point were more realism isn't always a good thing. One thing about using the old figures: no worries about the uncanny valley. And if you're doing something like a graphic forensic reconstruction, having figures that aren't too realistic is probably a good thing.

randym77 posted at 4:33PM Mon, 19 October 2020 - #4401717

I think the appeal of "versatile" figures is that you can use the same textures and clothing for them. Not a concern for big studios, digital or otherwise.

But I wonder if it's worth it, even for hobbyists. I don't think L'Homme is a realistic male, and I think it's because the original mesh was female.

I don't think that's the reason. The daz figures all use one mesh and they are distinctly male and female.

I did the same with my figures and they're distinctly male and female. Tho I did make some minor changes to each just to achieve better/easier shaping in some areas and to compensate for Poser's broken geometry swapping, but it didn't affect overall rigging. I could remove those changes and have the same results.

wolf359 posted at 4:50PM Mon, 19 October 2020 - #4401725

What would make an optimised Poser figure, >then ? The Daz3D figures and morphs are >computationally heavy, true. The only other >solution is natively rigged figure geometry >inside Poser, but then again, not exactly sure >of that would make them computationally >lightweight.

A native poser figure with alot of morphs could be as computationally heavy as they wanted as long as the figure remains in poser and only invokes the morph Data when called upon with a slider/Dial etc.

This is exactly how the Daz genesis figure function>>>INSIDE DAZ STUDIO<

This is what .PMD files do.

Nice job infinity10, you should also explain for those who don't know which version/year of FBX inside of Studio you exported out of, and if you selected collect textures or not and if you changed the skin type once in Poser or just left it as it was, I know the answers to those questions but I'm sure many others do not, so that will help those who want to do what you just did.

Prixat & Wolf - I was talking about how to get a slimmed down >version of the G figures (and other DS content) in Poser. If you plan ahead, it is actually pretty easy. It is a geries of very simple steps. (delete any unused morphs in the Data folder) My G are around 100Mb each. The key is deleting every unused morph in DS. If you don't do this, every unused morph (each >taking about 1Mb of ram) >makes the figures unwieldy

As I said before, if the many posts on this subject are any indication. Most poser users refuse to even install the Daz studio software & install manager

You are expecting them to learn to "deep dive" Daz studio and essentially bake out their own custom version of a particular genesis Character before shoe horning it into poser for a single portrait/pinup.

Anyone willing to become that level of a Daz studio user May as well just use a full capacity Genesis figure click & load a few presets and use NVIDIA Iray, which makes way more realistic still renders than poser.

Understand I am not rigidly opposed to mixing at least two eco- systems if one offers features far above what the other can provide.

In my case Iclone/CC3 offers the superior realtime Character animation tools for both body & face but Blender offers the far superior Rendering, VFX & content creation environment.

Also sending animated iclone Avatars to Blender with animation is a simple matter of exporting them from CC3 pipeline and My Blender renders are far better than anything possible in Iclone.

I Just dont see the labor rationale for going into Daz studio only to create a paired own ,non HD, Genesis girl and send her into poser with crap joints,tedious manual, posing options, no viable option to switch clothing or skins to render in an inferior render engine,

But to each thier own ?

@Ambient, it sounds like PMD had the potential to give poser native figures the types of morph versatility of the genesis figures

Is this feature still in poser??(I bailed after poser pro 2014)

wolf359 posted at 1:43PM Tue, 20 October 2020 - #4401852

@Ambient, it sounds like PMD had the potential to give poser native figures the types of morph versatility of the genesis figures

Is this feature still in poser??(I bailed after poser pro 2014)

Yes. Has been since P5 or 6 when it was introduced. LF and LH use pmd. Pretty sure most of the other native figures created since its introduction use it too.

From the manual:

"Poser saves morph targets to an external binary file format (.PMD), which contains only the morph targets for a particular figure or scene. This format allows for faster loading and greater flexibility, as the targets are no longer enmeshed with the rest of the data in the .PZ3 scene file. This storage method also requires less disk space, as all instances of the same figure reference the same .PMD file for morph target data. If you change the morph targets of one or more figures created from the Library and then save your scene, the morph target modifications will be saved in a single new .PMD file accompanying the scene file."

@CHK2033 - I exported using FBX 2014, baked in the textures, and sent the textures out to the saved folder, and only added SSS to the imported FBX inside Poser. Make the Cornea transparent, use only the transparency for the eyelashes, check the hair transparency settings. Then pose manually.

I used another Genesis8Female character - YoYo - and exported her with her clothes, accessories and hair, as an FBX. I imported her into Poser. Note: The file comes in as a mangled mess. I click on the main figure in the hierarchy view, and then Zero the figure. The figure reverts to normal shape, with all accessories, hair, shoes, and clothes intact. I do have to make some adjustments to the materials, and I do manually pose the figure in my Poser scene. I rendered this scene using SuperFly.

The render I made:

https://www.deviantart.com/ibr-remote/art/Gen8Fem-YoYo-FBX-in-Poser-Pro-11-858847918

render

Here is the thumbnail (the overly-reddish-orange lighting effect is intentional):

I needed to use the Poser morph brush to tuck the shirt into the skirt, and to get the skirt a little less tight-fitting.

infinity10 posted at 12:20PM Thu, 22 October 2020 - #4401925

Nice job

Here's my attempt with the Mrs Chow character for Genesis 8 Female, exported as FBX and imported for posing and rendering inside Poser Pro 11. I do have some notes for this case, which I'll add after the images.

Link to the ful render is here

full render

Thumbnail:

I used the Daz3D Genesis 8 Female with the Mrs Chow morphs and materials, and used a third-party set of hair props. I am also using the Daz3D Old Fashion Sweat Suit. I assembled all items inside Daz Studio Pro, I exported all items (including props - which in this case are the hairpieces and shoelaces) as FBX format. I imported the FBX file into Poser Pro 11 and posed the figure manually. I adjusted the material shaders to work better with SuperFly render engine. (More adjustment is needed for the hair shader, obviously.) IMPORTANT NOTE: I learned that the FBX format is very sensitive to hierarchical order among the parts of the figures, and that some items which get imported on the FBX file as props, need to be parented to parts which are invisible in the Hierarchy View Tab. You can only see them appearing when you use the Parent To under the Properties Tab of the Parameters Menu.

Mrs Chow is going for sunrise exercise.?

I will post a full body render tomorrow my time. Good night for now.

OK - here is the full body render of the imported and posed Mrs Chow Genesis 8 Female in Poser Pro 11.

I exported the FBX and imported it into Poser, then posed the figure manually. I needed to adjust some of the materials, and I rendered in SuperFly. (More adjustment is needed for the hair shader, obviously.)

As I have mentioned in my post immediately before this one: IMPORTANT NOTE: I learned that the FBX format is very sensitive to hierarchical order among the parts of the figures, and that some items which get imported on the FBX file as props, need to be parented to parts which are invisible in the Hierarchy View Tab. You can only see them appearing when you use the Parent To under the Properties Tab of the Parameters Menu.

Link to full version is here

Thumbnail:

Mrs Chow is going for sunrise exercise.??Keep fit and stay healthy, Mrs Chow.

For anyone who is interested, I made a video showing my process. It may not be useful for everyone...

my video is at Youtube

infinity10 posted at 7:26PM Fri, 23 October 2020 - #4401996

For anyone who is interested, I made a video showing my process. It may not be useful for everyone...

my video is at Youtube

Hi infinity10. Thank you for the detailed video of your workflow ?

Thanks , Have you done the same already with the MB-Lab-generated figure's (I seen one dancing in Blender, that's why I ask ) or is that the one you spoke on before on having issues with on importing ?

Tangential: When that DAZ figure is imported via FBX, did it come in as one (1) 'tree', or dozens ??

I'm not surprised the figure was initially scrambled, it is one of Poser_11 FBX import's lesser quirks. Having a single figure 'lose its tap-root' and spawn umpteen independent sub-rigs, though, is the stuff of nightmare. How do you position, scale or pose such a snarl ? How do you delete it, even via Hierarchy, without RSI and a migraine ?? For fairly simple 'scatters', I resorted to parenting the 'tap-root' and its now-orphaned sub-rigs to a dummy place-holder...

Incidentally, any word on the latest 'Make Human' version, and its FBX compatibility with PPro_11 / P_12 ??

Looks like MH figures would suit Poser's 'Dynamic Clothing' facility, though that's something whose work-flow I've yet to grok...