Looks like all of the superfly materials are going to need redoing

There is another post that mentions that some cycle nodes have been 'corrected' so old EZSkin materials will render differently in Poser 12.

As for Ghostship shaders, you may need to transpose those setting to the new PrincipledBsdf.

Yes the shaders needs to be updated now

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AS I understand it Snarly is working on a new EZskin and EZmat to support the updated Python script.

Boni

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yes, the sad thing is that the PBDSF doesnt have translucence. I have a version of my shader in my runtime that trades out SSS for translucence and it was great on tree leaves.

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the skin shader I use still kind of works with some added roughness other wise the skin looks greasy.

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Keep in mind that the new PrincipledBsdf is going to make materials so much easier to create. I've used this in Blender with wonderful results.

Boni

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Boni, my shader WAS pretty much PBSDF without a few of the things. I figured I'd be using PBSDF for stuff once 12 came out but I counted on falling back on my shader for translucence. It's not a big deal. I'm looking into the hair shader at the moment.

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ghostship2, I figured you got this ... it was a generic comment for everyone. You, sir are a master and mats!!

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Anisotropic BSDF and PrincipledHair BSDF both render out with triangles. I'm guessing this is a known bug? Anyway, hair doesn't look good with either. Still mucking about.

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Getting somewhere with the hair. This should be ready soon for me to post up a mat room node setup.

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That would be great. Thanks for your hard work.

Looking forward to it sir, as I'm a huge fan of your shaders.

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Try this. It is not perfect. The reflections are too saturated especially with extreme lighting but it works for most stuff.

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ghostship2 posted at 12:53PM Tue, 03 November 2020 - #4402941

Try this. It is not perfect. The reflections are too saturated especially with extreme lighting but it works for most stuff.

![Poser 12 Hair n2.jpg

Thank you @ghosthip Thank you

I am exploring that new PrincipleBsdf node

But I have to say that the try-and-tests and getting somewhat faster, using OptiX... yay

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Y-Phil posted at 4:50PM Tue, 03 November 2020 - #4402996

ghostship2 posted at 12:53PM Tue, 03 November 2020 - #4402941

Try this. It is not perfect. The reflections are too saturated especially with extreme lighting but it works for most stuff.

![Poser 12 Hair n2.jpg

Thank you @ghosthip Thank you

I am exploring that new PrincipleBsdf node

But I have to say that the try-and-tests and getting somewhat faster, using OptiX... yay

@ghosthip Update, with your hair shader, an infinite light and the famous envsphere:

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Thank you ghostship. I used your shader on this one.
rendered in 26 min and 38 sec.

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ghostman posted at 9:38PM Tue, 03 November 2020 - #4403072

Thank you ghostship. I used your shader on this one.
rendered in 26 min and 38 sec.

Gorgeous pic! and great Poser 12 logo

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@Y-Phil and Ghostman: great renders! I think once they fix some nodes we might be able to use my old shaders. Either way we'll be fine.

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working on eye shaders. Starting with V4 then I'll see about LF and Dawn. LH and Dusk should be able to use the same shaders.

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ghostship2 posted at 9:46PM Tue, 03 November 2020 - #4403111

working on eye shaders. Starting with V4 then I'll see about LF and Dawn. LH and Dusk should be able to use the same shaders.

Oh please... don't at me with those.... eyes... I'm in loooove :D

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I decided that I'd make the shaders work in FF too. They don't look as good but that is mostly because of FF. Point is you'll be able to render in either.

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Seriously appreciate you working on those so fast. They look great.

@Rhia you are welcome! Here is the LF shaders. There will be a full shader MC6 and shaders for each zone so you can apply these to LH.

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Looking good,.

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ghostship2 posted at 8:22AM Wed, 04 November 2020 - #4403164

@Rhia you are welcome! Here is the LF shaders. There will be a full shader MC6 and shaders for each zone so you can apply these to LH.

Thank you so much @ghostship2

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@ghostship2 Thank you so much. Your shader looks awesome. I play a bit with your hairshader this morning. Aaaaawesome. Bo Hair from Bisquit.

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@ghostman, your fur is looking epic. Great render.

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@ TheAnimaGemini Ladonna is that you? Thanks!

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Was not liking the textures for LaFemme's iris and also did some tweaking of the shaders.

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Lovely, the 3 dimensionality and the color graduations really pop with this one. Looking forward to it. Also really should try your hair shader this evening one am off work.

ghostship2 posted at 6:04PM Thu, 05 November 2020 - #4403441

@ TheAnimaGemini Ladonna is that you? Thanks!

yes, its me :)

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ghostship2 posted at 6:07PM Thu, 05 November 2020 - #4403442

Was not liking the textures for LaFemme's iris and also did some tweaking of the shaders.

This looks soo good. Just made a render and my LF eyes look a bit dull. Cant wait for your shader. With some Postwork .

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Looks great!

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Dawn and Dusk eyes

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I'm still far from, for example, ghostship's incredible renders, but I manage to have something quite acceptable for me, for the skin (nothing else was changed).

I've started from EZSkin3, cleaned up everything not FF-related. IMO, it looks like the Scatter doesn't act anymore because its preview remained black, so that I replaced it with the Subsurface skin node. But with strange lighting on the side of each 3d part, reason why I tried to add this nodes arrangement for the specularity. All other values remains EZSkin's defaults. I'm really not sure if this makes sense or not. Funny side-effect: if the background node is set with a map, each preview of a root node reflects the map...

Disclaimer: except strictly skin-related parts, nothing has been changed. It took 2'17" for my card, using the OptiX renderer, and these settings:

Rather fast... ? That being said, each advice will be welcome.

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ghostship2 posted at 3:08PM Thu, 05 November 2020 - #4403475

Dawn and Dusk eyes

What are the glowing lines on the eyelids and just above the eyebrows? Is that some skin shader anomily or light relfections?

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@RedPhantom yes, that is an issue with SSS on Dawn's face. The odd thing is that I'm not having any problems with V4, V3, or LF.

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more testing the eye shaders.

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ghostship2 posted at 12:12AM Sat, 07 November 2020 - #4403639

more testing the eye shaders.

Wow

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Reading all this makes me wonder what renderosity is going to do with the thousands of older Poser packages sold that might not work correctly anymore ! there will be allot of work ahead for the testers and especially for all the creators that still sell the assets updating there material settings so that they work. All Posers have been removed from the market so if a new customer buys a product he will look at Promo renders made with other Poser versions then 12 and when trying to make a render with Poser 12 they might not be pleased about the results they will get. Sure Poser now has a Store integration but all these or most assets are or seem not to be compatible anymore with Poser 12. especially Packages that have loads of Pytons for the material settings.

that is going to be a 24/ 24 testing period for the official Rendo testers and even more work for the Vendors that might not even make any profit for the updates !

from what I see until now renders do not seem to get better then they were in prior Poser versions, I rather think that people are looking for quality and not speed. for sure it will not be the solution saying buy a product and fix it your self , or is it ?

@Azath 90% of the stuff I buy on Rendo needs new texture maps and shaders otherwise they don't render correctly even in Poser 11. It's also possible that once they've worked out all the bugs in the shader nodes then things will get back to normal (including my free super shader)

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couple more colors for the V4 version. gotta stop there for the night before I start making mistakes.

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@ghostship2 Impressive. Really love it.

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@Azath I don't think many vendors will update their older products. Poser user has to learn to let it go. There is no reason why vendors should spent X-hours for free , to update old stuff. As a former LW user I can tell you I loose many add-ons with upgrades. Now with Blender is the same. Add-on's , shader, light systems. Some of them was pretty expensive. But this is the price you have to accept when your favorite Software get a huge Upgrade. We can not have both sides, ugraded Poser with new features and outdated old stuff backward compatible till the beginning of time. I understand you, I have spent also thousands of thousands € over the years for Poser Items. Victoria outfits etcc. Scripts, shader , lights, which are now broken. But I am okay with it. Looking forward for new amazing scripts , add-ons. And you always have the possibility to use older versions of Poser where this older stuff works fine.

I find it a bit irritating that people ask vendors to update ancient products , waste time with it, instead to encourage them to create new stuff within the new technologie. And than people wonder why they don't like to create anymore Poser stuff and Move somewhere else.

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@ TheAnimaGemini

Guess you are right on that one, Is just to hope that there will be again a little more interest in Poser as right now this Community has grown small. Would be nice to see that it grows again a little larger.

@ ghostship2

Eye renders are looking very good :)

Azath posted at 12:51PM Sat, 07 November 2020 - #4403743

@ TheAnimaGemini

Guess you are right on that one, Is just to hope that there will be again a little more interest in Poser as right now this Community has grown small. Would be nice to see that it grows again a little larger.

I hope so too. Poser is still a great Software and In my opinion Renderosity take the right path. I really hope the new version and also the future upgrades will encourage more vendors to jump on Poser again. It is a painful process to loose so many great scripts, add -on's but what is priceless that the Poser community is still amazing and helpful . I am absolut certain that we will have soon our old fav scripts back ( Snarly , BagginsBill, Ghostship, and all the other amazing and helpful people are already working on it) We have still a very helpful community and as far I can see, many come back . Yes, I am looking forward for new shiny shaders, scripts for Poser 12, also more stuff for LF and LH. Dawn, Dusk. Those characters are great, they just need a chance. From the vendors, but mainly from the users. Instead of criticizing the characters, lets make useful suggestions how they can be improved .Lets encourage vendors to do some magic.

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Will people please let Genesis go. It is not made for Poser. I'm happy with V4. The Wonder Woman figure at the start of the thread is V4 - what's wrong with that ? And hopefully we will soon have another figure available for Poser - Dawn 2. It's looking good so far.

@qaz Holy shit! Sign me up for that if that is Dawn 2.

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@quaz She looks amazing. Awesome.

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A lot of work has gone into this figure. Finally we get a realistic figure to play with.

@qaz are you on the development team for D2?

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Also is D2 going to be cross platform. I had huge issues with that already with Dawn. Oh look a cool character for Dawn, oh sorry cant use that because it's Daz Studio only. That was a BIG problem with Dawn.

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I have nothing to do with Dawn 2, Just been following its progress.Obviously I'm keen to see what I can morph her into. Yes, it's definitely cross platform. There will obviously be issues with Superfly shaders, but I thing we can produce some good textures for her.

This is one rendered in Firefly:

Dawn herself has always been cross-platform. The problem is a number of vendors (CAs at HiveWire) don't work with both Poser and DS, so the items they create for Dawn are for one or the other software. HiveWire doesn't insist that everything you create for their characters, Dawn, Dusk, Luna or the animals, has to be for both Poser and DS. Yes, I agree, there are times I wish something was for both, even here in the RMP, but there's nothing you can do about that, unless you get more Poser content makes to be more active for certain characters, like Dawn.

That said, Dawn 2.0 is going to be a whole 'nother ballgame, so we may see more products for her created with both software apps, hopefully.

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I don't know that what people want is necessarily Genesis per se, but V4 has her issues. The weight-mapped versions address some of those, at the expense of a lot more set-up work and poses that are never quite right and take a lot of fixing. I do want a better figure, and I want it to have enough supporting content available to actually replace V4. Genesis support would achieve that.

LF doesn't have that content yet. Maybe it will eventually? I'm trying to support it, but honestly I'm not liking the characters I see for it. I supported Dawn for a while too, but her shape was a bit weird. An improved version seems promising (and those are great images), but it pushes back the supporting content even further.

If you are looking for supporting content for a particular genre (e.g. fantasy), the limited options feel even more constricting.

@qaz do you have any renders of her ears?

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@ChromeStar It takes years to build up a library. The problem with Genesis is that every time they update the figure they just go back and rehash the same old clothes. What's wrong in using V4 clothes. This is LF wearing V4 clothes. This didn't take very long at all.

@ghostship2 - ears ????

those look good except for the lack of ear canals.

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qaz posted at 4:14PM Sat, 07 November 2020 - #4403788

@ChromeStar It takes years to build up a library. The problem with Genesis is that every time they update the figure they just go back and rehash the same old clothes. What's wrong in using V4 clothes. This is LF wearing V4 clothes. This didn't take very long at all.

How do you do that? Do they move properly or do you have to adjust every frame?

ChromeStar posted at 3:21PM Sat, 07 November 2020 - #4403794

qaz posted at 4:14PM Sat, 07 November 2020 - #4403788

@ChromeStar It takes years to build up a library. The problem with Genesis is that every time they update the figure they just go back and rehash the same old clothes. What's wrong in using V4 clothes. This is LF wearing V4 clothes. This didn't take very long at all.

How do you do that? Do they move properly or do you have to adjust every frame?

They are conforming clothes. You transfer the clothing using the fitting room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0v4o5-oQY

I will have to try that. Thanks for the link to the tutorial.

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, my impression was that the Blinn, Anisotropic, etc shaders were not working at all, but that the cycles shaders were working. But I am seeing big differences in the cycles GlossyBSDF too -- it works, but the results are dramatically different. At least in my render, in P12 I'm getting an extremely glossy result (wet look) whereas in P11 with the same settings it was just some soft highlighting. (I think these shaders are from D3D...? Not 100% certain.)

On the other hand, I really want it to work because the same render took 6 hours in P11 (a little puzzled by that actually, something has started going wrong there) and 10-15 minutes in P12. (Images below are cropped, not the whole render.)

But if you're rebuilding your shaders with GlossyBSDF and that shader is not currently functioning correctly.....

Poser 11:

Poser 12:

Note that while the skin got really glossy in P12, the eye surface (which also has GlossyBSDF) became less so.

Here's a snippet of the skin shader:

There's also something weird going on with the fabric behind the character, maybe a difference in displacement? Have not played with it since the result is equally ok, but it is distinctly not the same if you overlay them. (If you do, note the figure moving up and down is not a P12 artifact, I bumped her up a hair to fix the positioning.)

turn up the roughness on your gloss shader.

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The point is that the results are different despite using the same settings. It's better than nodes that don't work at all, but not as good as not having to tweak and experiment every setting until the results are equivalent to what they were before.

But for the record, I raised the roughness from 0.13 to 0.50 on the skin shader to get the equivalent look. I also raised it on the eye surface, from 0.074 to 0.224, to get the reflection back -- at the lower value the reflection was too small and sharp to be visible. Those are very large changes to get the same results!

Dawn 2 looks very good. Her face doesn't have the original Dawn's sharply triangular look, that was really difficult to morph away.

I wonder if she'll be included with Poser. I don't mind paying for figures, but I suspect she'd get a lot more support if the base, at least, was free.