On behalf of some vendors who are curious. Are there many of you out there stull using Firefly as their render engine? Should vendors start releasing products purely Superfly and not firefly any more. Curious minds want to know.

Boni

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"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

I only use Firefly. I buy a lot of stuff and would not purchase Superfly only products. I already don’t, except for Aphrodite Oki’s step it up set just in case I ever change my mind. This is highly unlikely.

SF renders are superior to FF but you might include a Poser root with a map on it and have it checked for FF along with the SF setup.

W10, Ryzen 5 1600x, 16Gb,RTX2060Super+GTX980, PP11, 11.3.740

If I were a vendor, I would be more concerned about offering MORE support for my products and reach any potential customers. You put less work into your product and it obviously is going to reflect in your sales.

Basically, I use Firefly only. I've experimented with Superfly, and bought a few Superfly-only products, but I don't like the look of Superfly, TBH, and it takes so much longer. If forced to use Superfly, I will, but I plan to use Firefly for the foreseeable future.

One reason I'm cautious is that Superfly seems to still be a work in progress. I'm hesitant to buy, say, shader packs, for fear that they won't work after an update.

For things other than shaders, I might buy it if I really like it, but I will probably be using it in Firefly, with materials changed if necessary. I bought Anime Girl, even though she's labeled for Poser 12, but use her in Poser 11.

It depends on how much work it takes them. Can you estimate how much work it takes to also provide Firefly, once the vendor has the SuperFly done? Are there automated helper converters? If it's taking them an extra three days a month to do Firefly then I can understand why they might be weary of it. But if it's only an extra three hours a month, then they should keep on doing it so as to get the widest audience possible. The other question is: would Renderosity even permit such a move? Because once they let one vendor do it, the risk is that the other vendors will all follow.

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You have a two-fold problem as a vendor in what to offer; on one hand, you want to create a high-quality product to entice your buyers on both ends of the spectrum, but, on the other hand, how much do you want to invest in delivering that product without making it too labor-intensive. Realistically, you need to put in a considerable amount of time constructing your shader materials for both Firefly and Superfly, and, although they can share a common root, there are node arrangements that need to be addressed to accommodate both render engines. This will require separate material setups to achieve the same outcome, especially if you want to attain physically correct renders. For example, a Firefly metal shader may not look correct in a Superfly render or the inclusion of Fresnel effects that are entirely different under both render engines. If you need to cater to both, you may be diluting the full potential of one system or the other because of time and full investment to get both absolutely right. I agree with ghostship2 about standardizing material with the PoserSurface as the root but at some point that won't be enough.

@HartyBart - I don't think it takes them 3 hrs to export a geometry file of a prop or scene in a format that can be loaded into any 3D program.

As a user, I use superfly only. As a vendor, I make both superfly and firefly shaders. It would be nice if it was superfly only because the shaders are easier to set up, IMHO. With Poser 12 it's a toss-up as to which runs faster. I recently had firefly renders take longer than their superfly equivalent. And yes, it does take a while to make both, because you need to have the thumbnails and promo pictures for both.

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I use mostly Firefly. I do a lot of toon renders and I just like Firefly better. I am not skilled enough to know how to set up my render settings to produce a good looking image using Superfly. I have used Superfly on occasion tho, never really liked the outcome so...I stay away from Superfly on the most part.

I haven't seen toon renders in Superfly yet, if they do exist. I would imagine if your renders are not overly complicated, or you just want setup simplicity, then Firefly would be your best option. It would be interesting to experiment with Superfly toons. A project for another day.

Anime Girl comes with Superfly materials. There are Superfly renders in the promo pics.

Just judging from the galleries, a lot of Poser users do toon or comic type renders, or do a lot of postwork. Some actually composite SF and FF renders, because they like elements of both.

Personally, I prefer the look of Firefly. It looks sharper to me (and if I want it less sharp, there's Photoshop). I'm not aiming for photorealism; I think even Firefly is well into the uncanny valley, or can be. I don't care for the "gaming" look that a lot of 3D art has, either, with super shiny metals and such. And I can never get hair to look decent in SF. It either ends up with a really painted look, which doesn't match the realism of eyes, skin, etc. or it looks really plasticky. Maybe I just haven't found the right shaders yet.

Blender has gorgeous NPR style options. It'll filter over to Superfly eventually, hopefully.

primorge posted at 4:02PM Thu, 02 September 2021 - #4426528

Blender has gorgeous NPR style options. It'll filter over to Superfly eventually, hopefully.

Now that would be a reason to switch to Superfly!

I've always thought that Poser's preview options were top notch. Even better now. Things like wireframe styles and such in Poser were far superior to options in much more expensive 3d applications. I'm hoping that Poser continues beefing up and expanding it's preview features.

Anime Girl is designed to be used Preview Mode, as well as rendered. At least, that's what I assume, from the promos. The documentation isn't that great. The readme doesn't even have the usual list of files. Just instructions on how to use the developer rig to add her morphs to clothing.

I've played a little with Anime Girl, and it seems Superfly is a lot more finicky when it comes to lighting. And you can't really predict what it will look like when rendered, while Preview and Firefly are a lot more forgiving.

I purchased Anime Girl and LF Ayane a while back. I've played with the openGL/Firefly set ups some.

(Long deleted wall of text)

Nice, and essential as a collector, to have it in my La Femme collection ;)

Just a note to Firefly preferred users who have Poser 12 ... Superfly is vastly improved in speed and denoising (although there is a little way to go there to fine tune that feature) so give it a try again. Just a suggestion.

Boni

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"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Yea I did try Superfly a couple times, but the lighting is hard to get right in it. Firefly produces crisper clear images. I still like Firefly much much better. I always know what to expect.

Superfly just seems to require a lot more fiddling to get right. I mean, even some of the promo renders in the RMP...look awful. It can look great, no doubt, but if even the "experts" can't do better for promo renders, well, it's kind of discouraging for those of us who are not so expert. I mean, there's a reason we buy stuff rather than make our own. We want it to be easy, and Superfly isn't.

I agree that Firefly produces crisper images; denoising just makes SF look blurry to me.

I've found lighting really difficult with Superfly. Even with light sets sold in the RMP...they're mostly tweaked for skin, and hair often looks blown out and plasticky.

Dont get me started on marketplace promos for Poser lately. I work in superfly now almost 100 percent (as my gallery attests). Poser 12, as Boni says, has improved the render times and if I get graininess or 'fireflies', I always know the lighting is too much and need to be adjusted. Materials require fiddling, not going to lie, but with the EZskin and EZdome out for P12, it is a lot easier. And no, I don't have a brand spanking new computer, it's over 5 years old. I think with Superfly in P12 there is still a lot of old habits and hearsay to combat. I learned a lot from reading threads on this forum regarding Superfly. So I encourage everyone to browse those threads and experiment.

I really think the learning curve is steeper with SF than it was with FF. With FF, there were a few tricks to learn, but then it worked with just about every render. Once in awhile, you might have to tweak something, but mostly, once you had settings you liked, you could use them for just about anything.

With SF, I feel like each render has to have its own setup. And with preview not working very well, it's a pain to test. For example, the default lighting with Anime Girl looks great in preview mode and in FF, but awful in SF...but you can't see that until after you render. Which takes forever. (Yes, SF is faster in Poser 12, but it's still slow as heck compared to FF.)

I also don't have a lot of incentive to learn. When FF came out, it looked so much better than the P4 renderer. I was all "OMG, I want to do that." I haven't seen anything that gives me that feeling in SF. Like Digitell, I actually prefer the look of Firefly.

Better NPR would do it, though.

I think with many low quality efforts done with Superfly there is a certain advantage, there's so much grain that there's no need for bump maps lol.

ghostship2 posted at 1:56PM Fri, 03 September 2021 - #4426501

SF renders are superior to FF but you might include a Poser root with a map on it and have it checked for FF along with the SF setup.

Personally I think that FF is looking way better then SF even in your Renders ! The lips , the skin look more realistic, I guess for cars SF might be a good option but not for Skin. Your render comparison is having an error that you probably used an increased environment light when rendering FF but you can see the difference after fixing the light in your FF render and you will see a big progress, Fixing the SF version was not possible it just caused to get even worse then it already is ! Using the right light on your FF render you would of gotten in very short time an outstanding result . I would say that a good option would of been Reality but not Super Fly

I'll agree that there is absolutely no reason why Ghostship's Firefly render should be so washed out other than user error or inferior settings. It's very easy to create very sharp vibrant detailed skin in Firefly. I've been test rendering some textures and morphs I made for La Femme using Firefly and Firefly shaders and while the results probably wouldn't impress strict realism/Superfly enthusiasts the results certainly are vibrant and detailed if not "photorealistic"...

It sure depends on your taste on how you wish to present your dolls, but over the decades there were releases with really realistic skin, and now you make out of a good skin in Superfly rather then a realistic looking woman a type of Real Doll reproduction ...

Here a sample of a real doll Mandy made of latex ( Guess men love these toys so the renders have to look like them ) So renders might achieve these results by using the superfly engine , honestly not what I would like to have ....

By posting the above I'd prefer if there isn't an avalanche of comparison Supefly renders or nasty critiques. It's just to illustrate a point about contrast and clarity in Firefly. If you don't like the character just keep it to yourself thanks lol.

Lol. That's hilarious cryogreem... and a good way to piss off a certain constituent of the Poser community. Just a heads up lol.

What's that saying... oh yeah

Gets out the popcorn :D

primorge posted at 2:29PM Fri, 03 September 2021 - #4426571

By posting the above I'd prefer if there isn't an avalanche of comparison Supefly renders or nasty critiques. It's just to illustrate a point about contrast and clarity in Firefly. If you don't like the character just keep it to yourself thanks lol.

Characters are ok it is what you make out of it, an artist can make a outstanding package, often it is questionable what the end user is making out of it LOL. Can just imagine one buying a V4 package and running the superfly engine guess they would get a neat surprise. I think that for majority users FF is allot easier to use and getting a good result with just basic experience :)

I've made some pretty nifty breast morphs and HD genitals for her too lol ;) Options my friend. In any case if you want to sell your characters you better learn how to use Superfly, you're handicapping your marketability otherwise. Just the way it is.

Yea LOL might be very true also got some good morphs for the breasts that you have to search for the head after a render :) well right now no matter what Poser is not really a good marketability choice, would be better off with Real Dolls 7'000 $ up for each model ok not calculating the crane that goes with it to move it around .

Just had to imagine if the postman delivers this package and you need 4 friends to get it up in your Appartement not telling them what's in the box :)

Anyway one day SF might get attractive who knows :) not that heavy like the RD parcel that the postman would bring and you do not have to explain your friends what's in the box

I think most people who are really good with Superfly come to it with a solid understanding of Firefly and all those techniques that Bagginsbill innovated over the years, which very much became standard operating procedure.

I've seen newer Poser users who were strictly Superfly users, because of this notion that its superior (which it is in many ways, just not as flexible), floundering horribly because they don't have a foundation in the material room or with lighting which more experienced Firefly users take for second nature. Mistakes with things that are rendering 101.

I'd also like to summarize by saying that cyogreem seems to know a hell of a lot about RealDolls ;)

You just made me think if I could get a fleshy skin looking good in Super Fly with some presets I have, never really use Superfly so my test came up with this in 20 seconds, rather simple setup. but sure not what I would be using on a Doll :)

Le sigh. Look, I know a lot of people are in this for unrealistically-chested females, but can we please move on from that?

I suppise it will always be down to individual tastes as to which renderer one prefers. I enjoy both but lately Superfly was noticeably faster for me that Firefly ( am assuming people use SS if Firefly).

For me, it's not SS that slows things down. It's hair. Transmapped hair takes forever in SF, at least if you want it to look decent. Bald La Femme renders pretty fast. Put hair on her, and you could grow old and die waiting.

And no shader I've tried has made dynamic hair look as good in SF as it does in FF.

I dread the bucket hitting the hair in either renderer, at least at quality settings. I have some newer hairs that were basically a waste of money because I'll never use them. They look beautiful in the promos though. Ali's hairs are less rendertime costly, least the ones I use, but they're not as elaborate(?) as some of Prae's or OOT's hairs, which give me the most problems.

Cyogreem posted at 4:15PM Fri, 03 September 2021 - #4426579

You just made me think if I could get a fleshy skin looking good in Super Fly with some presets I have, never really use Superfly so my test came up with this in 20 seconds, rather simple setup. but sure not what I would be using on a Doll :)

Save it out as a png. You'll minimize those compression artifacts.

For human Poser figures try EZSkin3...

https://cobrablade.net/snarlygribbly/poser.html

For creatures, depending if it's a static object or figure, you could use it also if you set up the definitions for it, probably best to use PBR maps painted in substance or the like for creatures. Physical Surface Root. Which it appears you might be using above maybe.

Let's say you decide to give up Firefly support... what are you going to do when u see that u start losing sales and realize that you've made a bad decision?

TwiztidKidd posted at 5:43PM Sat, 04 September 2021 - #4426640

Let's say you decide to give up Firefly support... what are you going to do when u see that u start losing sales and realize that you've made a bad decision?

I think that's the point of the question, to see if there are enough people still using firefly to warrant support. If on;y 1% of the users still used firefly, it wouldn't pay to make shaders for it anymore. But based on this, it looks like it might. Granted, this is only a small portion of the user base and may not reflect the needs of those who don't frequent forums.

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That's usually the problem asking the question this way, yeah. Still, worth it for a representative sample, I think.

TwiztidKidd posted at 5:40PM Sat, 04 September 2021 - #4426640

Let's say you decide to give up Firefly support... what are you going to do when u see that u start losing sales and realize that you've made a bad decision?

Giving up Firefly would for sure be a big error for a creator. I believe that most are comfortable using firefly especially the ones with a large collection and big investments over decades. There are allot of Fan fiction writers that make there covers using Poser they prefer a comic style, not to realistic, if you want it realistic then you can go out there and take a pic with your cam saves time and does not need hour's for a render :) The best Product Promos that have been made until now for Poser were made with firefly and I guess it will stay this way for quiet a while. Also assuming that most poser users are still using Poser 7 - 11 after 10 most jumped to DS using once in a while older poser versions with no real plan upgrading to Poser 12 and higher. So with Firefly you still have majority of costumers on your side.

Comes to it that a mix match of products might be very difficult , not many great releases the past 2 years ! So depending on older great products mixing with Superfly especially complex Environments would cause a conflict, if your doll skin is Superfly and you do not have the correct Interiors you are busted what remains is a simple Pinup with your superfly buy, another argument that makes Firefly essential.

I think it might be the opposite, TBH. I would guess it's probably closer to 1% using Superfly than only 1% using Firefly. If only because a lot of people are still using older versions of Poser.

This is a very small sample size, though. They might get better results if they put up a survey, maybe offering a coupon for completing it. That would encourage the "right" people to respond: people who actually buy stuff from the RMP.

I do feel sorry for vendors. This must be a pain, having to support Poser 11, Poser 12, and Firefly.

And some of the vendors decided, as Superfly arrived with P11, that they just stop supporting Poser altogether. Happened to two of my favorite vendors, actually. Two (now three) types of Poser shaders (Firefly, Poser 11 Superfly, Poser 12 Superfly) and DS...they understandably said 'nope'.

It still sucks, tho.

So yeah, I think a survey with a coupon may be a good idea with of course the caveat to calm down panicky types that this does NOT mean Firefly support is abandoned, because we see here daily how fast rumors fly.

Cyogreem posted at 6:04PM Sat, 04 September 2021 - #4426643

There are allot of Fan fiction writers that make there covers using Poser they prefer a comic style, not to realistic, if you want it realistic then you can go out there and take a pic with your cam saves time and does not need hour's for a render :)

I've noticed this is true of social media in general, not just the fan fiction crowd. Art that looks hand drawn gets a lot more love than art that has that 3D or gaming look. Even if it's not really hand drawn. Also, viewers often assume that something that looks too realistic is a photograph that's been Photoshopped, and don't value it as much as "real" art.

I think people are jaded on 3D now. They assume it's easy and doesn't take any talent, unlike drawing. (We know that's not true, of course.)

Like I said, if Superfly offered NPR better than Firefly, I'd use it.

Since Poser 12 is still after one year on prerelease and no creator is having any Idea in what direction it might lead, for most creators a very unstable situation releasing Superfly that might not work after the next update until poser is Final causing them allot of work for little money. So it rather would be the better choice to wait until Poser is Final and then use the Superfly options in products as additional offer for the beginning.

Due that it all takes over years it is not very attractive for creators not seeing any end. Same happen with the Poser 11 Bondware version it never got finished ending up with a large corruption of options and the Python Kill due the version number change witch only works with a Fix provided , that one has to be searched in the forums to make older Products working with integrated Python scripts.

So even a survey with a coupon would lead to nowhere as no one can tell until Poser will be final. They update one Node and puff you start from scratch! And for sure you can't tell afterwards to the customers, go and look in the forums there might be a fix for your issue of a freshly purchased product.

I think there's still more Firefly users actually. I also get a sense that the Poser user demographic might be folks in their 30's or older by a decent margin.

It does seem like it may not have been the best idea to release Poser 12 with a half-baked version of Superfly. Especially for Renderosity, which presumably is planning on content sales more than Smith Micro did. In hindsight, they probably should have stuck with the Poser 11 version of Superfly until the new version was settled.

I imagine the endgame is Cycles, but if it's constantly being updated, Poser might have a hard time keeping up.

"Same happen with the Poser 11 Bondware version it never got finished ending up with a large corruption of options and the Python Kill due the version number change witch only works with a Fix provided , that one has to be searched in the forums to make older Products working with integrated Python scripts."

I use AVFix. Everything works fine, I use a LOT of scripts for content creation type stuff. The patch is dead simple. I came to 11 pro from Poser 8. I'm not seeing what's been broken at all. I'm seeing only vast improvements and quality of life additions for getting creation tasks done with Poser.

Look, can we get over the Python thing already, please? The previous version reached its end of life, they had to move over. Remember PoserPro2014? Same stuff happened when Python versions changed and a bunch of scripts stopped working, and some creators updated and some disappeared and their products bought here in the marketplace became unusable, and absolutely no amount of complaining made it go away. It's the way of life in software development--Python and Poser aren't the only ones. So let's stop the negativity and focus on the original question.

Boni asked a valid question, and it looks like at least from here that Firefly shaders are still vastly preferred based on the sample here. A few of us suggested a survey outside of the forums to reach more users, perhaps via an email blast from Rendo to their subscribed newsletter users: that's a decent sample size. Since this would be for their vendors, it may be a valid option, I don't know, I'm not a vendor, I just have fun making images I'm not making a single cent from.

I think we may need more people chime in here without devolving into Rendo bashing or Superfly bashing, because we have enough of that here already.

Where do you get off ordering people around like a bossy mean librarian Rhia? Really.

All my scripts work fine. I don't bash Superfly. People can have their opinions without you jumping down their throat. You do it constantly. It's tedious and boring.

Sorry sir. I thought you and I were talking about the same thing. Apparently not. I'm trying to be polite and get back on track from pointless misinformation that keeps appearing here over and over again and no, again, I'm not talking about you.

Apology accepted. I apologize for getting agitated. I get stressed if I start to detect blood in the water. So far cyogreem has been reasonably civil in my opinion. He does have a sort of on the edge of doom for Poser attitude. What can you do?

primorge posted at 9:31PM Sat, 04 September 2021 - #4426567

I think with many low quality efforts done with Superfly there is a certain advantage, there's so much grain that there's no need for bump maps lol.

I'm pleading guilty. Well, half guilty. Back in the day, I always added a little bit of artificial grain to my renders in Gimp to make them look less plasticky, now I just dial the sample count down a bit. Still using bump maps, though.

My data point, if anyone cares: came back to the Poser world after a decade, jumped right onto P12 and SuperFly, found it ridiculously easy to make a skin material with the PBSDF node that reacts to light in an absolutely lovely way, and don't see myself ever going back to FireFly.

ETA: That said, I tend to prefer making my own content these days, so my data point may not be worth all that much.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

I use Firefly because I'm used to it, I can get decent results and I more or less know what I'm doing with it. Superfly... oh, boy. I hardly know where to start, renders take forever, I have to faff about to get something halfway useful and I'm constantly floundering in the dark. Oh, and Displacement doesn't work unless you subdivide the fuck out of everything.

No thanks, life is too short.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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I use Superfly almost exclusively ever since it was introduced in Poser.

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Me too. I wrote Firefly shaders and did tutorials on making them over at PFD for years and had no intention of buying the new Poser when Smith Micro bought the product. The site bought me the software so I could see what Superfly was and help the site users if possible. I read the Cycles Shader Encyclopedia in about 20 minutes and never looked back. I haven't used a Firefly shader since. As a trained photog Poser has always been the bomb. The lights and cameras are based on real world cameras and standard studio lights. PBR rendering such as Superfly provides allows for superb shots and lighting effects because you know exactly what you are going to get.

As for V4 and her skin. It doesn't look right, out of the box; no matter what render engine you use. First "trick" you needed in Firefly was to get rid of the blue tint in the maps. SSS in Firefly still doesn't function correctly and never did. Firefly does have micro-poly displacement. That is a big deal. Allows for lighter polycount but you are going to have a hard time convincing me that shader tricks with Firefly are faster and easier than Superfly/Cycles.

Victoria 4 did render nicely "out of the box" at one point. I think Poser 9 was when it changed. When SSS was added.

A lot of older characters in the RMP also have a greenish tinge that is very unattractive. I recently came across some old MAT files I made for Poser 5, and they look horrible now. And every once awhile, a newbie shows up wondering why the characters that looked fine in Poser 8 or lower look terrible now that they've upgraded.

You need to revamp the old shaders and techniques to the Superfly environment or else you will have horrible results. I have been creating my own shader node networks for old content, generating new maps, and working out the problems with lighting and rendering. Firefly, for me, is becoming a faded memory.

I still struggle with blue tinges from SSS with mesh intersections or very close proximity mesh positions in Firefly, even a very thoughtful usage of scatter groups can't remedy it in certain material areas. I don't render with really heavy scattering on skin, usually a scatter scale of 1.8 or thereabouts, to offset this. Even BB's Max Scatter trick isn't really practical with certain set ups.

I imagine that regardless of what renderer you are using, there is a certain element of artistic eye and "talent" involved. Most people seem to like Erogenesis' Poser imagery very much (I think he overdoes it with the oily specular but that's opinion) and he uses Firefly exclusively.

I think Superfly is especially suited to architectural stuff and vehicles etc. Caustics effects etc. Shadows also seem more delicate. Cloth looks really good. I'm just not seeing a gigantic difference with skin at this point, at least not enough where it isn't a Mountain Molehill situation.

SamTherapy posted at 9:11AM Sun, 05 September 2021 - #4426680

No thanks, life is too short.

There is that also. If you spend a lot of time modeling or painting or morphing and working through all those technical aspects and you have material/lighting setups that work well for your work you don't necessarily feel like starting from square one again to get things looking right. Especially when your workflow has evolved in such a way over years of work. Back when I was doing traditional media Painting and Sculpture I'd take my work to a professional photographer to have my slides made. The photography bit was a necessary evil. Conversely as this type of art work doesn't "exist" in a real 3 dimensional space the afterthought of photographing it becomes a focus. If you're spending a lot of time making the stuff it can be a very taxing step.

There's the dichotomy of whether you are looking at your art works from the perspective of "this is photography" or "this is Painting/Drawing" or even simply "look at my sculpture, see this wireframe and how everything is made?" There's this absolutist attitude here sometimes that can't seem to reconcile itself in terms of art notions that other art fields figured out a looooong time ago. It's a very confusing topic that doesn't seem anywhere near being resolved. It would interesting if there were a photography department for promos that specialized in photographing people's work to it's best advantage with input from the original creator. Sounds like a crazy idea and probably not cost effective but it's how it's done often times in other art commerce situations.

primorge posted at 2:06PM Sun, 05 September 2021 - #4426706

I think Superfly is especially suited to architectural stuff and vehicles etc.

I think you are dead wrong about that. Maybe this picture will convince you otherwise:

Cycles, image size 800x1200 pixels, CPU rendered with Ryzen 6 cores, 12 threads; render time: not quite 10 minutes; lighting: HDRI, no additional light; textures: 4K.

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I wear my sunglasses at night

:D

That is a very nice image though. I'll confess I don't look often in the galleries. What was that I said earlier about talent? I wonder who's figure that is, it helps a lot. Is that Poser?

Firefly...

Just kidding, mechanical pencil on 8 X 11sketch paper ;)

It is a nice render, but to me, the straps and glasses look a lot more realistic than the skin. Hair, IMVHO, doesn't look real at all. The skin on the neck looks a bit odd. Like there's no texture, starting halfway down the neck.

I actually don't mind that super-smooth look, but it it doesn't match the skin on her face.

That's one reason I like NPR (or just running renders through Photoshop). It's a way to even out the hyperreal vs. not-so-realistic parts of a render.

It's probably a Blender image. ADP is fond of coming into Poser threads and showing images from Blender. I may be wrong though. Knowing my luck with forum interactions I probably am lol.

It gets to the point really that why bother, in my opinion, just Google smiling pilot woman and use that image. There's probably a million that look just as much like a photograph. Other than technical show off stuff what's the image saying as a work of art?

But I bow out of the discussion, I don't really have an interest in this back and forth.

He did say it was Cycles. But that's what Superfly is aspiring to, isn't it?

It is. Apparently not as advanced of an implementation though. It's wedged in I guess you could say. Or rather, I've heard ADP state.

In 20 years all this will seem ridiculous really. Can't imagine what people will be debating or preferring then. Pretty good chance I won't be around to see it unfortunately.

In 20 years, people will be using Poser or similar software on their phones. :-)

Seriously, I hope Bondware doesn't spend all their time implementing better and better versions of Cycles. That seems like it would be a nightmare for vendors, and a pain for users, too. I'd like to see some improvements in other areas. Like the Hair Room. Can something like Dforce hair be made to work in Poser? Heck, I'd be happy if the Hair Room worked like it's supposed to.

Though I really would love more NPR options. I've been playing with the software formerly known as Manga Studio, and it has some comic/illustrative options. Maybe too many. I'd buy a pack of "recipes" to get certain looks.

I have manga studio, won a copy of it years ago. Never installed it. It's the go to for a lot of artists interested in illustration and comics from my understanding. I have too many bells and whistles with the softwares I use already. If anything we're spoiled for options as artists. It might be a detriment to personal innovation. For now Firefly is good enough for my personal things, if I want to try and sell something I'll use Superfly too. I'm thinking either just using EZSkin formula or Physical surface. Physical surface seems the most interesting and immediate. Lights seem to be much more simplified in Superfly also, with area lights and soft shadows. I've collected enough screencaps of people's render settings preferences to last me for quite a while lol.

It's funny you don't use Superfly Randym77, I recall in many threads when Superfly was first introduced you used to post some nice renders using it.

Without glasses ;)

This is work in progress. And yes, the body texture has no detailed bump and roughness map until I get better. I'm sick since a week now.

---

Very well done. I won't be critical of anything I see. I am curious what the model is though.

Is that rendertime DOF or post?

Since you are clearly aiming for photorealism I will say the crisscrossing roughness/bump is scaled badly or needs tweaking. It's immediately noticeable.

Waiting for twiztidkidd to make her chomping on a cigar. Challenge issued lol.

primorge posted at 4:33PM Sun, 05 September 2021 - #4426742

It's funny you don't use Superfly Randym77, I recall in many threads when Superfly was first introduced you used to post some nice renders using it.

I did? I don't remember that. I remember being endlessly frustrated, trying to get hair to look decent. Especially dynamic hair. I did give it a try, though.

Clip Studio (what Manga Studio is now called) has some Poser-like options now. At least some versions do; there are a gazillion different versions now. You can import 3D models, pose them, add materials, add a background, and render them. I remember it being a strictly 2D thing when I first bought it from Smith Micro.

I have fanciful notions that the real reason SM dumped Poser is because of all the lovely community baggage it comes with, Rendo was uniquely positioned and well used to all that. (JOKING)

Primorge, please watch the nudity tag.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Apologies RedPhantom, you can remove those images if you like. It was just a humorous moment in reaction to Twiztidkidd's image manipulations.

primorge posted at 5:35PM Sun, 05 September 2021 - #4426746

Since you are clearly aiming for photorealism I will say the crisscrossing roughness/bump is scaled badly or needs tweaking. It's immediately noticeable.

No postwork. Means: real DOF. The model is a G8 with a heavily sculpted Head. But will be replaced by "Bella". Because the figure is fully dressed, the figure is easy to exchange - she is actually just a clothes rack. And I have better teeth for Bella then for G8 :)

The textures are all made out of layers – and yes, there is a roughness layer that shouldn't be there ...

Waiting for twiztidkidd to make her chomping on a cigar. Challenge issued lol.

He is really good with Photoshop!

---

primorge posted at 5:47PM Sun, 05 September 2021 - #4426750

Apologies RedPhantom, you can remove those images if you like. It was just a humorous moment in reaction to Twiztidkidd's image manipulations.

Why would I want to remove them? They are great images. I just was reminding you to add tags as needed.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

"He is really good with Photoshop!"

He's obviously using some deepfake software, nobody could so flawlessly repaint like that in photoshop in a half hour. Or I'll eat my hat. (looks over nervously at hat)

primorge posted at 6:26PM Sun, 05 September 2021 - #4426754

"He is really good with Photoshop!"

He's obviously using some deepfake software, nobody could so flawlessly repaint like that in photoshop in a half hour. Or I'll eat my hat. (looks over nervously at hat)

O yes. The term "Photoshop" is nowadays rather a synonym for faked pictures.

---

Were those images above made with Poser? Are those figures shown useable in Poser? Sorry, just trying to get this back on topic; great images, though!

Boni's probably got her hands on her hips and she's tapping her foot...

...and she's slowly reaching for a frying pan LOL! No more pics after this... back to the topic, please.

Rhia474 posted at 7:00PM Sun, 05 September 2021 - #4426759

Were those images above made with Poser? Are those figures shown useable in Poser? Sorry, just trying to get this back on topic; great images, though!

It's Genesis in Blender (the Blender bit is an informed guess).

Yep, thank you.

And I'm seeing telltale signs all over the place in twiztidkidd's images now...

There's no detectable clone stamping traces that I can see. It's being done via an algorithm...

I saw this thread when it was in the first page, came back here now and was thoroughly confused.

Had to roll back a few pages to understand what was going on. Wow, this was a wild ride. xD

I'd say I would render some things in Firefly and in Superfly to compare so we could get back into topic, but honestly it would be unfair - I haven't touched Firefly in years and have completely forgotten how to make anything look remotedly good in that. I can only say that, for my purposes, making things look good in Superfly is waaay easier, and everything renders faster on GPU so I'm not going back.

All in all, it's good that each person gets to choose though. Even though sometimes I curse the heavens that I have to supply materials for both in my products, LMAO

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

@AO

You mentioned previously that you use Physical Surface for your character work (I only have some of the clothing you've made), And there's that thread where BB was instructing you on how to use it, particularly the scatter controls and maps. Fair to say that it's a good Superfly skin solution?

I see that with Superfly there's still issues with glowing mesh intersections. And I see that Superfly uses scatter groups. Blueish tinting still a problem in Superfly? I know that Superfly got rid of most of the self shadowing polygon and IDL splotches problems inherent in Firefly.

The glowing mesh intersections was fixed by adding a scatter id. I don't know of a blueish look, but that might be how my monitor displays.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

We still seem to have glowing when two meshes with SSS are atop each other very close together - like with LH's genitals, I had to remove SSS in his conforming anatomy bits to avoid the glowing. Thankfully, that doesn't seem to show up too much.

The bluish look used to happen when you used HDRI with bright blue sky. I don't see it happening nowadays, but might be just that I found better quality HDRI. Not sure.

Tomorrow (I'm off to bed now) I'll show renders of my latest character I'm working on, and her shader - with PhysicalSurface root, yes. As I'm getting a better hang of Substance Painter, I'm getting better results. PhysicalSurface makes it stupid easy to look good in Superfly with good textures. There are just some things it (the Physical root) simply can't do at all, like anisotropic specular or volume effects and refraction. For everything else, it works wonders.

Superfly's one BIG flaw remains being the lack of micromesh displacement. I'm still forever begging them to give us that.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Thanks Ohki.

RedPhantom posted at 8:37PM Sun, 05 September 2021 - #4426774

The glowing mesh intersections was fixed by adding a scatter id. I don't know of a blueish look, but that might be how my monitor displays.

It's discussed here.

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2904067#msg4275176

Though scatter ID or "groups" were a fix introduced way back for Firefly, it's still a problem in Firefly under certain circumstances, BB also came up with the Max Scatter trick which was built into EZSkin. Was just just wondering if Superfly stamped that out completely without need for the extra nodes of Max Scatter trick being wired in, or if the Max Scatter trick is even Possible in Superfly if it were necessary.

Being that Scatter groups are present in Superfly it leads me to believe the blue green occlusion bug still exists in Superfly.

The real reason I ask is because I created an HD genital morph for La Femme, amongst a bunch of other things, and my test renders are showing the blue green bug a bit there. I'm super nitpicky about that stuff, most people wouldn't notice. Being that the hip material is part of the Torso Skin material it can only have 1 scatter ID assigned to it, so the Scatter ID in this instance is useless. I suppose I could wire in the max scatter nodes, the shaders I'm using are a variation on BB's early Scatter/Blinn formula that led to EZSkin. Not EZSkin but my own variation, so I'd have to add in The Max Scatter stuff myself, which involves adjusting an HSV node and fiddling for ALL the materials in La Femme. So in reality the Max Scatter trick isn't a practical solution. Unless I completely rebuild the shaders. I think I'm just going to have to deal with the slight blue green bug for that morph and not obsess over it.

I have been tinkering with SSS in Superfly renders and I think I stumbled on the solution that I need to verify on several other models to be certain. I've been using the Principled Bsdf node and the Poser 12 manual covers a tutorial on how to set it up and use it. But I have found that a list of Subsurface radius values for different surface types happens to be off by a factor of 1000, values too low IMO to influence true SSS. Plus the subsurface scale is set too high in the associated images in the manual. So by scaling up the radius values by 1000 and reducing the subsurface scatter scale to 0.01, I get a very nice render without the self glow. I've been using one model to tweak these settings and modifying textures to optimize the look.

As promised, my wip Iolanda and her skin shader, lighted with only an HDRI:

And without HDRI, with one of my Level Up Superfly lights:

Edit: you'll notice that her skin maps aren't all done yet. Roughness and normal maps help make it look real. PhysSurface root IS made for PBR textures.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

She's gorgeous!

Interesting. So you don't actually need substance to generate these maps from what I'm reading on the web, you could paint them or generate them by other means such as mudbox, zbrush, blender or even photoshop. For instance this open source tilable skin roughness could be used to create a roughness map that would work perfectly fine in Poser, assuming that physical surface in Poser handles this in a conventional way (black is perfectly smooth and white is very rough)?

I imagine baked procedurals would be useful here too.

TwiztidKidd posted at 2:56PM Mon, 06 September 2021 - #4426808

She's gorgeous!

BWAHHHAHAHAHAHA!

Thank you! xD

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

primorge posted at 2:56PM Mon, 06 September 2021 - #4426810

Interesting. So you don't actually need substance to generate these maps from what I'm reading on the web, you could paint them or generate them by other means such as mudbox, zbrush, blender or even photoshop.

Well yes, there are many tools for these. I just got Substance because I found it purchasable instead of by subscription (which I'm slowly getting rid of everything subscription I use, as I can - still annoyed that I can't find something that does everything I need from Photoshop but eh) and I liked the way it works, but there are alternatives.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

LOL! You welcome, Happy Monday!

I'm a bit bogged with subscriptions but I enjoy and use quite a bit the things I have so it's worth it. I know some people think it's the antichrist or something. I adore Photoshop and Mudbox, which is a statement likely to cause apoplectic foaming at the mouth in people; mostly because people are effing bizarre lol.

3D coat Textura seems like a good Substance alternative, has reasonable rent to own or buy straight away price point. Blender's free of course. I tried Quixel Mixer but it felt sort of wonky and handicapped. I have mixed feelings about Zbrush but I used to love it, some of its plug ins are incredibly useful but it's a bit overkill for my needs. It used to be the amazing, totally idiosyncratic, magical software. Blender holds that mantle now.

Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time Ohki :)

primorge posted at 4:07PM Mon, 06 September 2021 - #4426821

I'm a bit bogged with subscriptions but I enjoy and use quite a bit the things I have so it's worth it. I know some people think it's the antichrist or something. I adore Photoshop and Mudbox, which is a statement likely to cause apoplectic foaming at the mouth in people; mostly because people are effing bizarre lol.

I don't think it's the antichrist, it's just that currency conversion in Brazil lately is murdering us, PLUS subscribing for software gets me kinda anxious - it makes me feel like I gotta rush to use the thing otherwise I'm wasting money. :/ just doesn't work so well for me. I adore Photoshop too, though, been using the thing since version 4 when I was a kid playing on my uncle's computer LMAO

3D coat Textura seems like a good Substance alternative, has reasonable rent to own or buy straight away price point. Blender's free of course. I tried Quixel Mixer but it felt sort of wonky and handicapped. I have mixed feelings about Zbrush but I used to love it, some of its plug ins are incredibly useful but it's a bit overkill for my needs. It used to be the amazing, totally idiosyncratic, magical software. Blender holds that mantle now.

Another alternative with Blender is the addon Layer Painter. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles from Substance though. I bought it, and then later realized that Substance is on Steam, which does localized pricing, so I found it very affordable for me. I doubt that version 2022 will come on Steam though, looking at how Adobe seems to be going, so I'll be stuck at 2021. Which honestly seems like a good deal to me anyway. And yeah I dropped Zbrush for Blender :) wasn't one of the lucky ones who bought Zbrush when it was super cheap and got upgrades for life, so...

Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time Ohki :)

Oy, always! :D

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:41PM Mon, 06 September 2021 - #4426823

Another alternative with Blender is the addon Layer Painter. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles from Substance though. I bought it, and then later realized that Substance is on Steam, which does localized pricing, so I found it very affordable for me. I doubt that version 2022 will come on Steam though, looking at how Adobe seems to be going, so I'll be stuck at 2021. Which honestly seems like a good deal to me anyway. And yeah I dropped Zbrush for Blender :) wasn't one of the lucky ones who bought Zbrush when it was super cheap and got upgrades for life, so...

I haven't heard of Layer Painter, so just checked it out, and bookmarked it. I just need to get better acquainted with Blender 2.93 since, as a long time Blender user, this new UI is still driving me a little crazy, though I am making progress.

I beta test for someone at HiveWire who uses Substance, and I keep telling him his customers might want to make their own textures for his goodies, but he needs to include matzones with his UV maps so they can do it, but he keeps telling me he uses Substance Painter and doesn't need matzones. I keep needling him that his customers do, but he ignores me. Anyway, Substance Painter's a little out of my price range, but this Layer Painter seems reasonably priced, so may give it a try as soon as I feel comfortable with the newer Blender version's setup, so thanks for mentioning it.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

Miss B posted at 6:21AM Tue, 07 September 2021 - #4426834

I beta test for someone at HiveWire who uses Substance, and I keep telling him his customers might want to make their own textures for his goodies, but he needs to include matzones with his UV maps so they can do it, but he keeps telling me he uses Substance Painter and doesn't need matzones. I keep needling him that his customers do, but he ignores me. Anyway, Substance Painter's a little out of my price range, but this Layer Painter seems reasonably priced, so may give it a try as soon as I feel comfortable with the newer Blender version's setup, so thanks for mentioning it.

My pleasure, I hope it suits your needs!

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

"PBR Painter 2.2" for Blender is also worth to mention: https://blendermarket.com/products/pbr-painter

Comes with a ton of howto videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGbSISX4ApM

---

adp001 posted at 9:27AM Tue, 07 September 2021 - #4426871

"PBR Painter 2.2" for Blender is also worth to mention: https://blendermarket.com/products/pbr-painter

Comes with a ton of howto videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGbSISX4ApM

Ohhh, also bookmarked. Thank you.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

This is a quickie setup for Principled BSDF with La Femme. Highlighted nodes are new additions to the default LF shader. The Specular map is not used as I'm not good with math nodes - I took the original image into Photoshop, inverted it and used Levels to crush the blacks to a more reasonable value. Roughness = the nearer to black the sharper, brighter and more mirror-like the highlights will be. There is of course no such thing as Specular in Superfly, it's all raytraced reflections.

The SSS Method at the base of the PBSDF is set to Burley by default. Random Walk is better as it calculates the actual volume of the mesh so it's the most accurate SSS calculation method available in Superfly. Only the SkinHead and SkinTorso mat zones were altered, but I did change the Scatter Group ID for the eye materials to 3 to get rid of the blue cast from the intersecting meshes.

----------------------------------------

Not approved by Scarfolk Council. For more information please reread. Or visit my local shop.

Rendered with 40 samples, single area light at 100% plus jpg textures on the Poser Ground for bounced light. Raw renders have had minor sharpen, contrast and colour adjust in Photoshop - after all, Blender and Iray and other 3d apps use 2d post-processing to optimise their results, so it seems only fair. This is about an hour of tweaks and test renders.

----------------------------------------

Not approved by Scarfolk Council. For more information please reread. Or visit my local shop.

Looking good, caisson! I've been using a very similar setup, except that I didn't bother with a roughness map.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

It's 2021 and I'm still getting overwhelmingly distracted by burned-in-specular on the color map.

---

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

This is very good.

---

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

A more significant question might be...

Superfly vs Blender Cycles. Figures can be welded. What superiority does Superfly have in that scenerio?

Which also brings to mind the question of Superfly and its relationship with animation as opposed to the other options in Poser.

I have seen Subsurface radius at higher values. I am currently using 3.67, 1.37, 0.68 with a Subsurface value of 0.01 which is considered a real-world value; I haven't seen any blue tinting around the mouth and have completely eliminated the self glowing issue many individuals are having. Consult the Poser manual and look at the PrincipledBsdf section. Also, there is a chart listing some known Subsurface radius values for different materials but I have found that those values are erroneous, they appear to be set in meters, not millimeters.

@hborre that would make sense. AFAIK radius is depth split into RGB values and the subsurface value is an overall multiplier, so higher RGB depth + lower multiplier should look similar to lower RGB depth + higher multiplier. I'll try your values when I fire Poser up next.

@primorge SF vs Blender Cycles is an easy answer for me - I don't use Blender, therefore Superfly always wins :D

Animation is an interesting question - personally I'd look at the number of frames I would need vs computing power available, then figure out a time budget per frame. That would determine the complexity of the materials, and that would influence my choice of engine.

----------------------------------------

Not approved by Scarfolk Council. For more information please reread. Or visit my local shop.

I'm curious how these suggestions apply to Superfly. In particular the portals bit... It's a long video but might spark some interesting observations

https://youtu.be/8gSyEpt4-60

caisson posted at 10:07PM Fri, 10 September 2021 - #4427141

@hborre that would make sense. AFAIK radius is depth split into RGB values and the subsurface value is an overall multiplier, so higher RGB depth + lower multiplier should look similar to lower RGB depth + higher multiplier. I'll try your values when I fire Poser up next.

@primorge SF vs Blender Cycles is an easy answer for me - I don't use Blender, therefore Superfly always wins :D

Animation is an interesting question - personally I'd look at the number of frames I would need vs computing power available, then figure out a time budget per frame. That would determine the complexity of the materials, and that would influence my choice of engine.

That's what also thought. The problem that I encountered when increasing the multiplier is an increase in self glowing around creases and close contact material. Most sites I viewed recommend keeping the multiplier in and around 0.01 to 0.02, a real-world value. However, taking the RGB radius value too low will negate the SSS effect. The manual does a fairly decent description of applying the PrincipleBsdf however the chart listing other RGB Radius for other different skin types is in error, the values are totally off by a factor of a thousand. The number appear to be in meters, not millimeters as the title states.

Thanks caisson and hborre! I thought I had some decent skin materials, but now I'm just feeling very embarrassed. A little thing I've noticed while trying out your respective settings is that Burley produces increasingly bad glow artifacts with the larger depths, so it's really important to make the switch to random walk.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

I took the liberty to do a quick comparison between caisson's (left) and hborre's (right) settings. Please excuse the blocky eyes and badly fitted hair!

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

Very close.

Looks very good to me, though I'd suggest trying a render using a single light source behind the figure too - I have found it useful using the ears to judge subsurface amount.

----------------------------------------

Not approved by Scarfolk Council. For more information please reread. Or visit my local shop.

I agree.

@ Caisson, I seem to remember a complaint by BB that La Femme's ears were actually too thick for proper rear-lighting translucency. I also remember that Ohki creating a morph to correct that problem. Is this version of La Femme the pro version or the Poser bundled?

The Poser bundled version with leotard - everything bar the shader is default.

----------------------------------------

Not approved by Scarfolk Council. For more information please reread. Or visit my local shop.

Now I'm curious about what caisson's LF ear would look like in that same setting with my morph applied!

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

I made one earlier, a morph that is. I kind of cheated though and made her ear thin and GIGANTIC, rendered it Firefly IDL. Light was definitely bouncing around in there and there's glowing translucency... Not volcanic like Caisson's though. I consider it a failure and a bad render to boot but I'll share it for the heck of it.

It's titled 'My La Femme in Firefly feeling dejected because she underwent ear morph trauma and didn't get volcanic glowing like Caisson's La Femme. Plus primorge should have turned off the tear material because it's reacting badly with the waaaay high intensity rim light"

primorge posted at 7:44PM Sun, 12 September 2021 - #4427270

It's titled 'My La Femme in Firefly feeling dejected because she underwent ear morph trauma and didn't get volcanic glowing like Caisson's La Femme. Plus primorge should have turned off the tear material because it's reacting badly with the waaaay high intensity rim light"

That's a great title - short, concise, straightforward, simple. LMAO!

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

randym77 posted at 4:04 PM Thu, 2 September 2021 - #4426529

primorge posted at 4:02PM Thu, 02 September 2021 - #4426528

Blender has gorgeous NPR style options. It'll filter over to Superfly eventually, hopefully.

Now that would be a reason to switch to Superfly!

Superfly uses the cycle shaders so it should port over

Mason41 posted at 11:38 AM Wed, 3 August 2022 - #4442246

randym77 posted at 4:04 PM Thu, 2 September 2021 - #4426529

primorge posted at 4:02PM Thu, 02 September 2021 - #4426528

Blender has gorgeous NPR style options. It'll filter over to Superfly eventually, hopefully.

Now that would be a reason to switch to Superfly!

Superfly uses the cycle shaders so it should port over

Can someone versed in Superfly try it out?

I can't even get plain ol' Poser stuff to look good in Superfly. I bought some Superfly shaders, but Firefly still looks better to me.

I usually recreate Blender Cycles shaders into Poser and try different variations to test what looks best.  It is also a good learning experience, you get a better understanding of how each node works in conjunction with other nodes and node arrangements.  But you also need to understand that Poser gives you 3 Material Room options to create Superfly PBR renders, so if you are looking to assemble shaders for both Firefly and Superfly, you may need different node arrangements to accommodate both or rely on the PhysicalSurface node to integrate a balance.  Despite those readily available Superfly shaders, not all of them are optimized to give the same results.