Yes, DS is 'free', but DAZ are 'content sellers', their figures are expensive. Think free shaving handles but pricey disposable blades. Yes, you can find lots of freebies there if you watch like a cat, but most are add-ons to add-ons to $$ purchases. And, too many of their budget items come with 'gotchas', like their discounted legacy products that say 'templates available', but don't due age of model and/or forum culls. Oops...

There are many DS freebies etc here at Rendo', over at eg SCG, EE and the like, but...

I began with Poser_3 'free' off a mag's cover-disk, bought #4, was moving to #7 when a multi-HDD disaster and family priorities took me out for almost a decade. Got discounted #10, soon moved to #11. The legacy of previous owners' neglect was glaringly obvious: There's still UI bugs & quirks I remember un-fondly from #4...

IMHO, Rendo' are doing the best they can to untangle the many, deep legacy issues, drag Poser " kickin' & screamin' " into contention with Unity, XNA/Lara etc etc. I reckon DAZ is determined to move away from Poser-compatibility, and each generation of 'Genesis' makes it worse.

Two things:
When Poser gets 'Unimesh' working, which will be no small feat (*), that opens a window to 'modern' rigging. Then, eg FBX figures may become truly inter-operable.

I've found an easy route from rigged XPS to FBX via free Noesis. It usually 'plays well-ish' with Poser_11. Is there such from MMD's rigged PMX without a total re-build ??

*) Long ago and far away, I used to code '6502' for fun, wrote robust 'utility' software for my lab in several BASICs. A wary amateur, I knew my limits, crafted 'clean code'...

First of all, I am an animator working full time at Poser. So I am using poser 10 hours per day. So I know poser, I know daz, I know others, I know the history and I know capitalism.

So, I got another explanation but not an answer. They are working on Poser, good.. but time is running. Poser is forgotten-ware already as I don't see anything from anyone at anywhere.. and there is no reason to buy Poser today if you are someone who is interested at 3D for any reason. Making poser not free, you just stop the communities to join.

As Renderocity marketing is about 10-15 years old with mails and a moderate forum without any proper live channels like discord, it becomes more harder to get new people.

IF poser gets somewhere, someday, all others would be miles away already.

I am at Poser side and I want to able to use it with proper content and program. We don't have both today. I use modified V4, Shasa-16 version which is way better at anything from that Le Famme thing.. Animation and IK systems are not working as I am losing tons of time just to correct feet on the ground..

I don't compare or talk about Daz3D.. it's an old discussion.. they won years ago, there is nothing to discuss.. But even Blender starts to bring pose saving, human creations and it gets better and easier everyday.

Why does Poser not have proper tutorials for years? Someone will pay for a bad, dated product to get, he won't able to find proper new content and there is no tutorials to explain how things work on it.. Am I the only person who finds that absurd?

This question has been asked hundredth of times.

DS is free, but free DS is very far from Poser in terms of tools. consider DS + equivalents tools such as those included in Poser.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

(っ◔◡◔)っ

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Y-Phil posted at 3:05 PM Wed, 1 June 2022 - #4439427

This question has been asked hundredth of times.
DS is free, but free DS is very far from Poser in terms of tools. consider DS + equivalents tools such as those included in Poser.

I know you are a super fan of poser. I am too, but this does not blind my eyes.

Why do you tell me that Daz is free? I don't talk about Daz, I don't care Daz. Please don't change the topic.

So if asked so many times, what is the answer?

Why is Poser not free when we got Blender, Unreal Engine, Unity and tons of products are free.

Tools at poser are outdated already, mostly bugged or you need to know exactly how it works..

On the other hand, today, Poser failed so badly as it does make morphs unusable at some models if you save the project when those models are invisible. Again, I try to save my animation pose of V4 to library with all ticks on, but it refuse to save the size parameters of body parts.. Why? Because it's buggy and it does not work as intended.. What do you try to defend against me, a broken and expensive product?

If you know poser well enough and you think it works fine, go make some tutorials.. all the old experienced guys here does not have even a tutorial video... only some wall of texts time to time which you already need experience to understand it..

Try to make a single animation with IK first then talk to me too about your poser with equivalents tools..

First V4 is so old I'm actually ashamed that poser stile bothers to support her.

Second if you already have a version of Poser than it IS free, just don't bother upgrading to any newer versions.

Third if you are so sure that the that the other programs you mentioned as being "free" are so much better then why are you still trying to work in Poser? AND complaining about it when you can just change programs?

And Finally if you are so disappointed by Renderosity as a whole, why are you even still here?

Have a great Day

I see that we're back in that time of the year when people who are never in the poser forums come to randomly complain about poser again. Do you guys get a salary to do it or something? It's getting really boring by now.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Oh, you know. New release work was discussed which would support Unimesh. This must hurt someone.

I see that, you created a temple here with probably 50+ years old fanboys with female avatars :)... No answer for any critic questions, just harassments. You can't even see whats going on out there..

Fine.. Just continue to live at your little corner, happily forever. Close your ears to any questions that the answers would hurt your old feelings...

"First V4 is so old I'm actually ashamed that poser stile bothers to support her." Just I laughed that so hard.. Poser does not support anything for a decade, my friend. V4 supported by fans as it's still the best model for Poser.

your replies are sad and pathetic when you try to act funny or cool..

bye..

drages posted at 1:07 AM Thu, 2 June 2022 - #4439463

I see that, you created a temple here with probably 50+ years old fanboys with female avatars :)...

I'm a 36 year old woman, but go off, I guess.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Calm down, every-one !! Please !!

Rendo' & Co have a dire legacy of neglect to untangle, no thanks to the 'Old Owners' who saw it as a commodity rather than an eco-system.

Upside, 'Unimesh support' touches so many aspects of core-code that it must come via a massive 'Spring Clean'.

Which also offers an opportunity to 'Do the Needful' and add 'hooks' to provide future facilities such as, well, browse the 'P_12 Wishlist' for inspiration.

FWIW, V4 may be a couple of LODs down on the current 'Genesis' crew, but both have their place in CGI...

Legacy models ? Yeah, I've several terabytes of them --figures, props, accessories etc etc-- some from before P3 and 'RuntimeDNA'. Funnily enough, a lot of them have similar LOD to recent ports you see from XNA/Lara, SFM, MMD, Mixamo etc etc.

I began with 3DS --static, hues-- to accessorise my 'Classic' FP3D 'Home Design / Architecture' suite for a Medieval-ish look. P3 had figures that could be 'posed', however clunkily, and could use my collection of props. I still collect such, though current challenge is the oft-exasperating rigging differences between Autodesk and 'Open' FBX formats...

Um, is there a convenient workflow between an MMD 'rigged' PMX and something Poser will load ? Without total re-build / re-rig ??

I've sorta-solved for XPS...

drages posted at 1:07 AM Thu, 2 June 2022 - #4439463

"First V4 is so old I'm actually ashamed that poser stile bothers to support her." Just I laughed that so hard.. Poser does not support anything for a decade, my friend. V4 supported by fans as it's still the best model for Poser.

By the way, do you REALLY use Poser? Cause this is La Femme, morphed in Blender, textured in Substance Painter, rendered in Poser12 Superfly. Lol.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Most figures with enough polygons in their face can be morphed in a dedicated morphing app.

I have morphs of the Poser 4 Dork that are prettier than most Vickys.

Most figures look more or less OK if just standing around and with a nice texture on them.

But this is Poser. A hobbyist app for pople that can not morph from or texture from scratch.

They need a figure that looks good out of the box and/or comes with enough morphs to be adapted to whatever the customer needs.

They need a figure that can bend in a realistic manner, because a lot of time "standing around and looking pretty" won't do.

So why I am so dead set against La Femme as the "Face" of Poser?

Here's why:

1. Her default shape looks very strange. I now "thighgap" is en vogue right now, but L'Femme looks almost like an alien.

Even though I am no friend of V4's strange triangular thigh shape, La Femmes looks even more unnatural.

They are almost twice as deep as they are wide!

Before I pose her, this is the number of JCM's that La Femme uses in her rig:

Shin: 2x3

Thigh: 2x8

Hip: 10

Waist: 10

Abdomen: 8

Chest: 16

Neck: 14

Collar: 2x8

Shoulder: 2x10

Remember: JCM's are bad. They complicate the cr2, they use up resources, they make cloth design harder.

They should only be used when absolutely necessary.

And this is the number of JCM's I used for my weightmapped copy of V417K shown above:

(Yes, ZERO)

So, let's see what we've got here:

First a full sidebend:

L'Femme shows a bulge on the inside of the thigh while V4WM's is nicely flat.

Then a half / half pose:

That's some nasty deformations La Femme develops here, despite her gazillon of JCM's. Ouch!

Now the piece de resistance. A full frontbend Yoga pose with legs crossed behind the head:

Remember that my V4WM does not use A SINGLE JCM to do this. Yet she looks way more natural even in this extreme pose.

Now Imagine how a professionally made and rigged Poser figure could bend!

Well, are at least the expressions any good?

Well, here is La Femme's default smile:

Need I to say more? (And I haven't even mentioned her lack of proper mesh topology that makes detailed figure sculpts impossible)

L'Femme is not what I consider a quality figure. She's not even remotely suited to be the "Face of Poser".

Looking at her, I feel actually ashamed to call myself a Poser Artist.

If she'd be a freebie, I wouldn't even bother downloading her.

I can respect the sheer effort and time it takes to create a Poser figure from scratch.

But she is so flawed that she is beyond fixing.

I now some members here make it a point to "support" each and any figure that someone creates for Poser, come hell or high water.

This is fine and well, as long as these figures aren't supposed to represent Poser and entice new customers to pick up Poser as a tool for their hobby.

Accuse me of being "negative" all you want, but this relentless support of even the most flawed figures is a disservice to both Poser and this community.

This refusal to acknowledge that there IS a problem, is exactly what brought us in the position we are now in.

If we want Poser to survive, we need better figures.

MUCH better figures.

But we'll never get them as long we settle for something like La Femme.

We deserve better than this.

Quote:
"Remember: JCM's are bad. They complicate the cr2, they use up resources, they make cloth design harder."

I can see your point, but I still disagree.
With nowadays computer powers, I don't think much of resources anymore.
Unless you'll have a well developed AI driven joint system, there always will be the needs for JCMs.
As far as I know, not even professional CG figures in the movie industry are JCM free.
The point is, that the figure software should automatically transfer those JCMs to clothes, without the user having to think about it.
Some other consumer applications are quite good at that.
I agree, that La Femme is a complete fail - again.
At this moment Dawn 2 is about to be released SOOOON ;-) .
I was not impressed by Dawn at all. At least previews of Dawn 2 do actually look quite promising.
Let's see...

Oh, I'm not against JCM's at all. My V4WM shown above is far from "perfect", and sure can use a few.

I just think that one should first try to do get as far as possible by refining weight- and bulgemaps, before adding a JCM.

Personally I prefer "Full-body-pose" JCM's. When I make an "extreme" pose like above, I create a matching JCM that fixes the whole body and save it within the pose file.

That way if I use that pose file, all problems get automatically fixed, including flesh deformations

This "Brute force" method avoids any complicated "matrix-like" JCM tech inside the cr2.

(I like to keep things as simple as possible. For example, I just discovered that the "native" Poser Genesis I and II figures I made a couple years ago for PP 2014 won't work in Poser 11 anymore. They load, but loose their UV's when you add another figure and once you delete them, make Poser 11 crash!)

But that's probably not a solution viable for the average / beginner / user.

Yeah, Dawn.

I had really high hopes for her, given that she was developed by the same guy who created the wonderfull Michael I/2 mesh as well as Stephanie I.

But when I saw her mesh topology, I was shocked how primitive it was, compared to Michael.

Heck, even the Poser 4 figures have a more elaborate mesh!

Anyway, I tried to at least fix her rigging and her homely default body shape and face.

Looks like my original Renderosity post "From Dawn to Danielle" has been lost so allow me to re-post the pictures I made of my fix.

Her problem was that she was actually rigged INSIDE DAZ Studio and the Poser version was just an automated export.

A few hours of native Poser rigging would have at least fixed the major flaws, as my Danielle character prooved.

Anyway, I wasn't allowed to distribute my cr2 fix for free, so it was "Bye, bye Dawn" for me.

Understandably, my hopes towards "Dawn 2.0" are quite low now, but we'll see.

Hope springs eternal, as they say.

;-)

Upps, forgot to show "Danielles' new body shape.

Left original Dawn, right SP3.

Here it is:

Joe, your diatribe against LF makes no sense in this thread. The point here was "Poser does not support anything for a decade", implying that there was never new tech in Poser since V4. I showed one example that that claim is just not true - unlike V4, we now have figures that are (natively) weight mapped, with face rigging, pose chips, Superfly-ready.

You hate LF, we know, it doesn't matter here at all.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

By the way, on the "dedicated morphing app": Blackhearted made La Femme's Femme Fatale morph set entirely inside Poser, with its morph tools. Again, it doesn't change anything that you hate LF - it's just an example that yes it can be done and yes Poser has new and good tools, people just REFUSE TO USE THEM.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

I don't "hate" La Femme.

She is not a human being.

She is a virtual tool to create art. (Or kitsch, or pr0n, or just having fun with)

The only problem I have is that people think that, despite having paid for Poser, I'm supposed to spend time fixing her numerous flaws, while Studio users can use G8 right out of the box and have much superior results.

It's like selling me a car with half an engine, and then telling me that it's my fault that the car won't run properly, because I always could have fixed it myself.

That's not how the world works.

Given my rigging and morphing skills, I could easily improve La Femme in a couple of days.

But there are so many flaws with her, the over-complicated JCM riddled rigging, the unnecessary face and pose chips (What's wrong with good old morphs?) and most of all the complete lack of muscular edgelooping, that I wouldn't know where to start.

Some figures simply are beyond fixing.

And again, why should I have to?

Studio is free, but I have to pay for Poser.

Yet Studio comes with a high quality figure I can use immediately while Poser does not.

If we still want to have a chance, we need a figure that is at least technically and aesthetically on par with G8.

Or we should just rename Poser into:

"The 3D App that formerly featured high quality human figures out of the box but now at least still allows you to create your own"

(Results may vary depending on your patience and talent)

Yeah, I think that definitely will bring all the lost merchants and customers back.

Honestly, Afrodite-Ohki, are you really happy with La Femme?

Wouldn't you rather use your time and talent on a figure that is on the same level as G8?

Or maybe even better?

As I said. Poser figures are tools, just like a brush or a chissel

And the better the tool, the better the artwork you can do with her.

BTW, I used ZBrush many, many years ago when it was new and the UI still made sense. I also used tons of magnets, (Some of my early sculpts literally used hundreds of them)

But since the morphbrush started to work across groups and the smoothing brush became stable, I exclusively use that to create my sculpts.

Just had a look at Femme Fatale.

Nice sculpting work, as usual. A little too over the top, for my taste, but he is definitely one of the most talented Poser artists.

Still, he needed to subdivide her mesh TWICE to get that much detail out of her body.

If her mesh had proper muscular edgeloops, he could have achieved the same level of detail with a fraction of the polygons necessary. This would have made her a lot less resource hungry and better suitable for "lesser" machines.

This is not his fault. But shows the problems of a mesh with poor mesh design.

Finally, while he created some amazing morphs, it looks like he didn't address any of her rigging problems.

So, sorry, she looks cute but is still not someting I could use.

I rather prefer his NIA (based on the PT-Girl) and his Irina (based on SP3).

(Hmm, I have a weightmapped version of the PT-Girl. I think I should try that out with his NIA morph)

What can I say, I'm an old fashioned guy.

;-)

Joe, Poser is the software. You paid for the software. La Femme comes as a bonus. The question here is if Poser should be free.

Daz Studio is free because it is, in essence, just the Genesis tool. It gets money from the sales of (many times overpriced) Genesis stuff. It's NOT the same business model as Poser.

I'm tired of seeing people complain about pokethrough, when the Poser Morph Brush is right there, stupidly easy to use. And that's just an example.

Poser has an enormous set of tools, and me being now 36 having been using it since I was a teen, haven't even scratched the surface of things like animation, or the physics engine. There's a lot packed.

But you're stuck talking about figures.

You wanna ask me what I'd change in La Femme, let's make a thread for that - it's completely out of topic in this thread. But I'll give you a spoiler of how that convo would go: I'd change a lot of things in her, but DEFINITELY not to make her more like Genesis.

Now, back to topic at hand please. La Femme does not equal Poser - and neither does Dawn.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

JoePublic posted at 4:34 PM Fri, 3 June 2022 - #4439523

It's like selling me a car with half an engine, and then telling me that it's my fault that the car won't run properly, because I always could have fixed it myself.

And just to use your metaphor here: nobody's selling you a car with half an engine - they're selling you an entire car that comes preloaded with a brand of fuel you don't like.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

I'm just using G8 as she is the most obvious competition.

(And for the record, I also have a lot of things to criticize about G8.)

Yes, Poser has a lot of tools. And I pretty much use or used all of them in the past 22yrs.

But I disagree that Poser is bought for the tools.

I bought Poser because it promised me to add realistic human beings to my artwork.

Well, neither Posette nor Dork were especially "realistic".

Nor were any of the many figures that followed, including the DAZ ones.

So I learned to fix them with the tools Poser provided.

It was fun, but I did it because I HAD to. Because there was no ALTERNATIVE.

I much rather had started with a figure like G8, that at least is 85% "correct" right out of the box instead of having to fix basic functionality.

More time fixing things makes less time making art.

So, no, I think both Studio as well as Poser are bought for the same reason: The figures.

And don't understimate Studio's toolset. (I was one of the first actually paying for Studio's rigging tools)

They even have a type of "Morphbrush" plugin. It is still a bit primitive, but in a year or so it might be just as capeable as the Poser morphbrush is now!

If it doesn't suit your needs, just find something else that does, then. Honestly if I just wanted the figures I'd use DS - I don't like Genesis but I'm sure I'd be able to bend it into my liking.

Severely lacks the tools I like using though.

But saying that Poser should be free just because there's free competition in DS is like saying Maya should be free just because there is free competition in Blender. Different tools, different companies, different income models.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

drages posted at 9:00 AM Wed, 1 June 2022 - #4439398

Why does Poser not have proper tutorials for years? Someone will pay for a bad, dated product to get, he won't able to find proper new content and there is no tutorials to explain how things work on it.. Am I the only person who finds that absurd?

Have you looked at Renderosity's YouTube page? There's a ton of tutorials there. I didn't see where you specified which version of Poser you're using, or what specific topic you need tutorials for, but here's a link to their playlist page which has playlists for both Poser 11 and 12:

https://www.youtube.com/c/renderosity/playlists

There is also the Tutorials section right here onsite:

https://www.renderosity.com/premium-tutorials?section_id=1&page=1

Those date back to at least Poser 10/2014.

As for animation, SKAmotion on YouTube has some decent beginner tutorials on Poser's walk cycles and some nice examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI4iBwyrerg&t=17s

If you just do a search on Poser animation tutorial on YT it will bring up several. Animation hasn't changed much in Poser that I'm aware of over the last several versions so anything from at least Poser 8 to now should still apply.

Try to be more specific with what you're asking for and someone here should be able to help.

There are some other webinars that haven't made it over from Smith-Micro yet but hopefully they will some day.

JoePublic posted at 5:46 PM Fri, 3 June 2022 - #4439530

I'm just using G8 as she is the most obvious competition.
(And for the record, I also have a lot of things to criticize about G8.)
*
Yes, Poser has a lot of tools. And I pretty much use or used all of them in the past 22yrs.
But I disagree that Poser is bought for the tools.
I bought Poser because it promised me to add realistic human beings to my artwork.
Well, neither Posette nor Dork were especially "realistic".
Nor were any of the many figures that followed, including the DAZ ones.
So I learned to fix them with the tools Poser provided.
It was fun, but I did it because I HAD to. Because there was no ALTERNATIVE.
I much rather had started with a figure like G8, that at least is 85% "correct" right out of the box instead of having to fix basic functionality.
More time fixing things makes less time making art.
So, no, I think both Studio as well as Poser are bought for the same reason: The figures.
*
And don't understimate Studio's toolset. (I was one of the first actually paying for Studio's rigging tools)
They even have a type of "Morphbrush" plugin. It is still a bit primitive, but in a year or so it might be just as capeable as the Poser morphbrush is now!

Those are pretty much the same reasons I started building my own figures, cause I was never truly happy with any of the ones that came with Poser, or the ones I bought to add into it. And the more time I spent customizing them to my liking, the more I felt like I should just be spending that time making my own, so I did. And that's what I like about Poser. I use DS and iClone too, and I like them each for what they are, but I come back to Poser because its the most familiar, and I have the most freedom to do what I want in it. I could do the same in Blender, but I usually wind up spending half my time searching YouTube to remember how to do this or that thing in Blender.

I've seen some pretty nice art made from some of the worst figures in Poser's lineup and I doubt those artists spent days or weeks modifying geometry and rigs to create that work. They just used them as mannequins and adjusted areas as needed to produce a final render. Because that's all any Poser figure really is, a mannequin. Blank canvases you can do with whatever you envision. Even the Genesis figures aren't perfectly realistic, they're highly stylized based on a specific DAZ artistic look. It doesn't take much to recognize a daz figure regardless where you see it because they all have a specific look to them. Much like character models from certain high profile games. If you're familiar with the Warcraft style, for example, then you'll spot it anywhere you see it.

I suspect the lesson Bondware learned from DS is: once you go free, it becomes very difficult to get people to start paying for the program again.

regards
prixat

There is nothing wrong about having to pay for Poser. I personally have a big issue with the activation system ( Every 7th day ) causing that allot of Poser users stopped using it! Trust gets lost due the fact if Bondware decides to shut down you loose all your investments, but this is only one part of the issue the second one is like many members experienced that got banned from renderosity through the Forums and with this lost thousand of dollars worth models and the access with Poser to there purchases. In some cases even to run Poser . This just because Renderosity think if they do not like the customer they just shut em off stealing all there Investments made over Decades . A thing that usually only happens on "fraudulent sites".

So People need to be careful before starting investing into Poser through Renderosity due the mentioned above Facts. I personally would not Invest any further into Poser as long as this it is handled the way it is now , may be when this Kill switch is removed i would consider to support poser again and risk a buy .

People get banned if they break the rules of the site. There's nothing new with that. I'm very aware that one of those banned people was the one who made fake accounts of me trying to jeopardize my image and my business, so honestly I do hope that person did lose thousands of dollars worth of models or whatever.

Perhaps though there should be a separate ban, from forums and sitemail / from the store.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:48 PM Sun, 5 June 2022 - #4439586

People get banned if they break the rules of the site. There's nothing new with that. I'm very aware that one of those banned people was the one who made fake accounts of me trying to jeopardize my image and my business, so honestly I do hope that person did lose thousands of dollars worth of models or whatever.

👍

Perhaps though there should be a separate ban, from forums and sitemail / from the store.

Pretty sure there is, but not 100% on that. Some things have changed since I was a mod. But, its everyone's responsibility to back up their purchases anyway since there's no guarantee they will always be available. Pretty sure the tos states that too.

Drages, your opinion isn't actually a fact. It is an opinion, nothing more. The folks at bondware are cleaning out 20 years of cruft, and that is going to take a while. Although I have to admit, I suspect the animation tools won't be at the top of the list.

My opinion is that Poser is easier to use than Blender (it comes with actual documentation and content), and more powerful than DS (because I don't have to spend $600+ for 3rd party scripts to reach feature parity - that number was NOT picked out of a hat, btw). I like the fact that I can pull in Poser content, DS content, and FBX content. With a little bit of work, I can pull in other 3d assets into Poser.

And most importantly:

The enduser can expand their skills at their pace, rather than getting on the pay train. If they just want to Load, Conform, Make Art a la Poser 4, nothing stopping them. When they are ready to join us in the 21st Century, they can, and not lose what they had before.

Yeah, V4/M4 is old - guess what? It has more content by several orders of magnitude than any other figure in the DS/Poserverse. The only thing keeping you from having a V4/M4 with all of the latest bells and whistles is you. I took Sasha-16 & added control surfaces (Using Uncle Ero's Project Evolution as a guide). Once I get my new system finished, I'll do the same to the G figures that I brought over from DS.

Daz is still on G8????? Shouldn't they be on G9 or G10 by now???

EClark1894 posted at 7:52 PM Mon, 6 June 2022 - #4439659

Daz is still on G8????? Shouldn't they be on G9 or G10 by now???

Well technically is G8.1, which could almost be considered G9. It's a new generation of V & M tho, technically the 9th generation. I don't know it gets confusing.

The numbering convention is deliberate - it is just different enough to be very, very annoying.

What else are they going to do to keep people on the hamster wheel buying stuff.

V1,V2, V3, V4, V4.1, V4.2, V5 (Genesis), V6 (Genesis 2), V7 (Genesis 3), V8 (Genesis 8), V8.1 (Genesis 8.1) - As I know Genesis 8.1 is an update of Genesis 8 like V4.2 to V4.1 and V4. Finally it doesn't matter witch Number a figure has, as long the user like the figure. Genesis 8.1 works also with Genesis 8 and Genesis 3 Textures, but it doesn't work the other way.

Victoria (3D figure) - Wikipedia

Why isn't Poser free? Simple answer... Because it is not... Lots of things could be free, but they are not. Get over it.... This thread has run its course and it needs to be closed....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

"...and it needs to be closed"

Why?

Poser as a software doesn't need to be free. I'd be alright with the current prizing, BUT !!!...
the step from Poser 10 to Poser 11 has just been an impertinent disaster.
It would have been an appropriate apology, to offer the upgrade to Poser 12 for free, instead we got nothing more for our money, than a few cycles rip off touch ups.

and still, I have not seen any breath taking Poser renders yet, that makes use of Superfly improvements.
Poser renders still have that brownish, flat oil painted appeal.
And yes, Poser must be capable of more, for I have seen exceptions from the rule. A rare bunch of Poser renders, that are indeed good.
The first and only coming to my mind are renders by Erogenensis, that are always amazing.
Some folks actually also praise Poser's animation tools, which are way better, than DS' tools.
List to do for Poser developers:
- Better native figures (Stop being sloppy in your figures development)
- Better figure system (Joints, rigging and more)
- Better render and shader system + a real time render system like eevee, IClone or unreal

As soon a new Poser team gets back to work and comes out with a good result, I am happy to pay my 300$ for an upgrade.

Nevertrumper posted at 7:04 AM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439732

Definitely too brownish, you're right

And no: there's no postwork on this pic.
No improvement on Superfly: so sad that it's rendering two to four times faster, with furthermore all these nodes that have been corrected in the mean times... It's heartbreakingly sad.

As already said numerous times: Bondware has inherited of a software whose history is somewhat eventful plus the fact that a huge step had to be done (Python), whereas some other (free) software are still relying on really old framework, no more supported.

So it takes time, but if you volunteer to help Bondware, we'll all be happy.

And speaking of Eevee or something equivalent: it's on the way, but not for next week: it'll take some time, too.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

(っ◔◡◔)っ

Not brownish, fair enough.

The few actually outstanding very good parts of your render are the pillows, the table glass surface and the martini glass.
Everything else, well...
I assume, your character is intended to be a toon character, right?
Shouldn't a character app, be great at skin shaders, instead of glass shaders?
In the Rendo gallery here, this would not even had a chance of getting my attention.

Without photorealistic figures, photorealistic rendering makes no sense.

On the contrary, the more "perfect" the render engine, the more the "imperfections" of the figure (bad sculpting, bad rigging) will stand out. Please accept the fact that some people either have a heightened ability to spot artistic problems or just have higher artistic standards than others.

Personally, I intentionally stay on "THIS" side of photorealism, because the "classic" Poser look is less grating on my eyes than all those "near miss" attempts at photorealism I see in the 3D world. (Not just from Poser, but from more "professional" 3D apps, too)

If you want to really go for photorealism, EVERYTHING has to be perfect. Even 99.99% won't do. At least to those with a very keen eye for details.

And Poser figures are so laughable removed thom being truly photorealistic, that putting them in a photorealistic lighting environment is just a waste of time.

Poser's main use always was to tell a story or visualize an idea, and it can do this just as well for most hobbyist users in an "almost" realistic way instead of trying to catch up with the "Pro" apps.

Whoever was in charge of Poser since version 5, always had it completely backwards:

You FIRST create the realistic figures and THEN bother with the render engine.

And no, there is no time left anymore.

I stopped waiting for better figures around Poser 9 or so, and started creating my own, based on the best existing meshes I could find.

I have no need for Superfly. It's still slow (compared to my optimized Firefly), grainy and it lacks basic functionality like displacement maps. (Not to mention that Poser 12 scrapped a huge library of legacy Python scripts for no good reason at all.)

And if I really ever need a "better" render engine than Firefly, I'd just use a professional one or use the original in Blender.

Right now, Superfly is just a distraction. A consolation prize.

A bone we've been thrown so we'd feel bad bitching about the lack of quality figures.

But the bucket stops here.

I won't buy another copy of Poser until it ships with a set of figures that at least have a proper mesh design with realistic muscle topology and are based on scans of actual human beings.

That's the LEAST I can demand from a 3D app that focusses on depicting the human form and sells for a couple hundred $$$.

After all those duds and wannabe "Vicky killer" figures that were inflicted on us during the decades, I'm not holding my breath, though.

BTW, anyone remember "Renda"?

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2310060/print

LOL!

But as I said, I have my own figures, so I'm not dependent on Poser anymore.

But the point is that many hobbyist users DO depend on whatever ships with Poser.

And those users have made it abundandtly clear that they don't like what they are seeing.

They left for G8, and nothing else.

Give them something comparable, and they might come back.

Give them a Renda, a La Femme or a Dawn and they'll stay where they are.

It is really that simple.

Nevertrumper posted at 7:04 AM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439732

the step from Poser 10 to Poser 11 has just been an impertinent disaster.
It would have been an appropriate apology, to offer the upgrade to Poser 12 for free, instead we got nothing more for our money, than a few cycles rip off touch ups.

What was so disastrous about it?

JoePublic posted at 10:02 AM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439742

I'm going not contradict you: I understand your arguments, but personally, if i wanted to create true realistic pictures, I would invest in more expensive softwares and expensive figures such as the one that has been pointed out a few days ago, but this is not going to be my world as I will never buy a $999 figure for my hobby.

That's why the more or less realistic Poser way is perfect for me, especially with my collection of Sasha-19 based characters.
And I know I'm not alone in this case.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

(っ◔◡◔)っ

Poser is capabel of very realistic images. It is not the software but the limits of the artist. Poser 12 has a lot of tools that can mimic realistic renders.

This image is done in poser 12. I tested la femme. I agree on a lot of things said about her. I find her hard to work with but it can pay off. I painted the skin in zbrush, no photos used. Also morphed her in zbrush. My only wish is better a hair engine and cloth engine.

I would like to address one of the many misconceptions in this thread.

What is that? Superfly does not support displacement. Which is not true at all, Superfly fully supports displacement and it always has.

What it doesn't support is micro displacement, which is not the same thing as displacement. Not even close...

Just about every Monte Carlo based render engine on the planet supports micro displacement.

Just about every path tracer based engine does not, will not, and never will either. Some do thou, at a huge cost...

Path traced micro displacement is a huge memory hog, and on most systems the render will come to a crawl. If it has to page, forget it..

How many hobbyists have 256 gig plus systems? How many have GPU racks with massive memory pools? Not many, if any, so why add a feature that will bring their system to a freaking crawl.

Systems that can take advantage of path traced micro displacement are in warehouses, not homes.

This has been explained countless times. The majority of Path trace engines will never have micro displacement, and the ones that do are slow as a snail when using it on a home pc.

Avatar used micro displacement, and it took Weta Digitals 40,000 processor system with 104 terabytes of memory, several hours a frame to render. 34 frames at a time, think about that for a bit.

Cycles comes to a absolute crawl when using it heavily in a scene, so does every other path tracer. So by all means waste your time adding it to Poser. They already added it to Cycles and Cycles X, and guess what. It is a complete memory hog as well, don't even bother trying to use your GPU.... Do you have the 1360 cpu cores Weta Digital used to render a frame? I didn't think so....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

A lot of people ask for things they dont use because "the big companies" use those features. You can do a lot in poser and i think most people dont even use 50 per cent of the program.

The biggest issue is the crowd that thinks anything is possible and that a 5th grader could program it to be fast on a potato.... During recess to boot.

Worse yet, even after it is explained they refuse to believe what they are told because someone else without a freaking clue constantly repeats otherwise on a forum.

There is so much dis information going around due to not having a freaking clue how any of it actually works. Worse yet, there are obviously people that believe them...

Even worse, we now have "I think Bondware should give away" to pay for everything in Posers past.

That it is pathetic, asking for restitution from a company that had no control over the complaint to begin with....

Forums are supposed to be for sharing knowledge, not opinionated dis information from someone claiming not to need the program in question or doesn't even use it anymore.

This is exactly what has destroyed the majority of forums pertaining to any program.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

shvrdavid posted at 6:04 PM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439758

Path traced micro displacement is a huge memory hog, and on most systems the render will come to a crawl. If it has to page, forget it..

Out of interest, do you happen to have a good source that explains why? I have a distinct memory of having watched a whole video course about light transport at some point, but apparently my scatterbrain has not held on to much more of it than "we can go a lot faster than Monte Carlo by picking the rays we trace back smartly." :-)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

By the way, if Bondware were to come to the conclusion that what Poser was missing was a new face that passes for human, I might know someone who is free (as in beer, speech and bird), quite flexible and down for a makeover. Just give me a call, Bondware, and I'll get you in touch. ;-)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

odf posted at 7:21 PM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439761

Out of interest, do you happen to have a good source that explains why? I have a distinct memory of having watched a whole video course about light transport at some point, but apparently my scatterbrain has not held on to much more of it than "we can go a lot faster than Monte Carlo by picking the rays we trace back smartly." :-)

Some of the best sources on it are from Epic Games, Intel, and Nvidia. I don't have specific links. Tessellation is very similar in how it works, and why it takes so long in a path tracer.

The new Unreal 5 engine is a prime example of it of why micro displacement is a really bad and outdated idea. Unreal 5 can handle millions of triangles in view at the same time, eliminating the need for micro poly anything. All while rendering far better and far faster than most engines. Unreal 5 is a path tracer that will probably never get support micro displacement. There is no need for it, and there is a good reason why. If you do need to use it (obviously some Poser content required it), Poser still has Firefly, Studio still has 3Delight, etc.

Micro polygon displacement can be controlled a few different ways. One way is how it is done in Blender with an adaptive node that modifies the geometry before or as it is sent to the engine, each time, more on this later... Another is by assigning a micro polygon displacement rate and ratios, and doing it during the initial render setup like FireFly does.

As example, Luxology uses rate and ratio to stop you from killing the render times. The settings were exposed in Luxology, and you could easily kill render times, run out of memory, or just crash the system. Ludology is also a Monte Carlo based engine that uses irradiance caching very similar to Firelfy, both are hybrid engines. Basically the settings are a cap to how far it can go before it causes problems, even in a Monte Carlo engine.

Both ways have limits to what they can do, and how much detail they can show before memory issues spiral out of control.

All of this doesn't even get into setting the scene up multiple times in a path tracer, because where it looks from changes every bounce, on every path. That is where it kills a path tracer, changing views on every bounce, for millions or billions of paths. Monte Carlo paths are basically limited to the number of pixels, times the number of bounces. And it only has to set the scene up based on the camera view, and not every bounce.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

This took one minute on my Acer Nitro 5 laptop:

To render the same scene in Superfly, I'd need "actual" grass with millions of polygons.

I have 32GB Ram, an i7 and a Geforce GTX.

How long do you think this would take me?

I think one look at the marketplace makes it clear what the average hobbyist Poser users (Those who bring in the $$$ for Rendo) really prefer:

A better figure or a more "PRO-like" render engine.

I'm pretty sure the G8 stuff outsells the Superfly products quite a bit.

;-)

Thanks for trying to slip some useful content into this thread past the trolls. I may yet learn something.

Blender has its adaptive subdivision https://artisticrender.com/how-to-use-adaptive-subdivision-surface-in-blender/ which seems like a reasonably efficient way to achieve the same ends (even though it is something different from actual micro displacement). If that's already supported in Blender and Cycles, it seems like it's something that could appear in Poser too, as Cycles in Poser gets updated to a newer version. I can get around the lack of micro displacement by simply subdividing many, many times (and I have done so on some occasions), but that obviously also has a cost in render times too. Adaptive subdivision would reduce the need to do so.

It's a little unclear to me whether Blender also has micro displacement. In my random Googling, I can't tell whether it actually does or people just don't know the difference between that and adaptive subdivision.

JoePublic posted at 11:27 PM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439768

I think one look at the marketplace makes it clear what the average hobbyist Poser users (Those who bring in the $$$ for Rendo) really prefer:
A better figure or a more "PRO-like" render engine.
I'm pretty sure the G8 stuff outsells the Superfly products quite a bit.

That's a false dichotomy. If you look at popular DS renders on other sites, they are using newer figures, but they are also using physically based rendering. Firefly does a good enough job if you want something cartoonish, but people want realism. It's easier to get there with a physically based rendering engine and an OK figure than it is with a great figure and an only OK not physically based rendering engine. Your plane would look absolutely great in a Snoopy vs the Red Baron comic, if that's what you're going for.

Would I like better figures? Sure. Am I learning anything useful from your complaining? No, not really sure what the point is. Probably isn't one.

ChromeStar posted at 11:35 PM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439769

Thanks for trying to slip some useful content into this thread past the trolls. I may yet learn something.
Blender has its adaptive subdivision https://artisticrender.com/how-to-use-adaptive-subdivision-surface-in-blender/ which seems like a reasonably efficient way to achieve the same ends (even though it is something different from actual micro displacement). If that's already supported in Blender and Cycles, it seems like it's something that could appear in Poser too, as Cycles in Poser gets updated to a newer version. I can get around the lack of micro displacement by simply subdividing many, many times (and I have done so on some occasions), but that obviously also has a cost in render times too. Adaptive subdivision would reduce the need to do so.
It's a little unclear to me whether Blender also has micro displacement. In my random Googling, I can't tell whether it actually does or people just don't know the difference between that and adaptive subdivision.

Cycles does not have adaptive subdivision, Blender does. Cycles is free to use in any program, Blender is not.... Tessellation, adaptive displacement, micro polygon displacement are all names for the basically same thing. They are just different ways of defining how to get there with different ratios, boundaries, limits, etc. They still do the same thing to the area affected, increase the polygon count so there are more normals to affect. The more you increase poly count, the more there is to process exponentially thou.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

"...but people want realism"

No, they want beauty.

And fun.

If you need true Photorealism, just download Blender or whatever else is out there.

But it's only a small minority of "Nerdy McNerds" that for their own ego boost need Poser to be "Just like the PROOOOS".

Unfortunately the owners of Poser thought that that was a good idea.

(Studio made the same mistake, but eventually realized their error)

If Poser had put all their efforts into providing this community with better figures the moment Genesis "happened", we wouldn't have threads like this.

We'd be too busy enjoying those figures, making and downloading freebies for them and generally having a good time.

The point of Poser was never to cater to the (wannabe) pros.

The point was to cater to the rank amateurs.

Dork and Posette were so easy to use and modify that literally everyone could participate.

Poser completely lost its spirit.

Have fun discussing the pros and cons of professional render engines.

See how much sales this will bring to Rendo.

I rather play with my old and obsolete figures using less-than-realistic Firefly and generally having a good time.

For the record:

I do not care what render engine Poser uses.

If it works JUST AS WELL as Firefly, does, ON MY MACHINE, fine!

But better figures are the #1 priority.

But hey, Poser is not my responsibility.

I did not buy it and I don't need it to make money to pay my rent.

This once thriving community is 90% destroyed already, I'm pretty sure you manage to alienate the rest of those who still care, too.

JoePublic posted at 11:27 PM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439768

This took one minute on my Acer Nitro 5 laptop:
To render the same scene in Superfly, I'd need "actual" grass with millions of polygons.
I have 32GB Ram, an i7 and a Geforce GTX.
How long do you think this would take me?

Gee I don't know, probably an eternity because you are stuck in the Monte Carlo mind set and don't know any tricks to get it to render faster because you don't even use Superfly or understand it at all.

This took about 5 min to render on my machine (Optix Render), rendered out about 5 times the resolution of your render that doesn't actually have or appear to have any grass in it at all..... The video card used is a Turing series as well, and a I7 860 with 16 gig of first gen ddr3. You have a better system... To render like this in Firefly takes literally about an hour. A render like your plane would only take a few seconds in Optix. You don't need all that topology either. Just because you don't know how to do something, doesn't make it impossible.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

JoePublic posted at 11:27 PM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439768

This took one minute on my Acer Nitro 5 laptop:
To render the same scene in Superfly, I'd need "actual" grass with millions of polygons.
I have 32GB Ram, an i7 and a Geforce GTX.
How long do you think this would take me?

Wow, this took 2 seconds more than your plane render, and it has HDRI and low poly grass in it..... Another 5 min of setting it up, and it would be way faster......

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

OMG 79 seconds, the horror... This is a very similar setup, except nothing is touched material wise. It is even coughing up node errors. This is default, came with Poser content, rendering faster than Firefly, with zero optimizations.... I am not even going to post the Firefly times, it was embarrassing for Firefly to say the least..

This cant be possible thou, simply because someone on the forum says and insists Firefly is way faster, needs way more polygons, etc...

After all, if it is on the internet, it must be true...

Stop spreading things that are not true, like how Firefly is faster than Superfly.

Because that is so far from the truth it is scary.

You don't even have to touch a single material, and Optix blows Firefly's doors off...

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

These are nice renders, but...

I'm on Poser 11, as I need still full access to my Python script library.

And Poser 11 has no optix option.

And as far as I know, mobile GPU's like my GTX don't work with optix, anyway?

I sent you a PM with a download to my Fokker scene. (I had to leave out the Skydome, as I took that from Stonemason's Urban Sprawl 2.)

So you'd have to replace that with your own.

Let's see what you can do with it and how fast it will render.

As I said, I'm not against progress at all.

But to abandon Firefly, I'd need a solution that is an actual improvement on my machine.

And so far Superfly was always WAY slower and much more grainy than any Firefly renderer for me.

(Both CPU as well as GPU)

Wow, this took what seems like forever. Oh, wait, that was a firefly render, my bad... Let me do it in Optix this time....

Almost 94 seconds in Optix... Imagine how slow this would be on a good system with a fast GPU. The horror..... 15, 20 seconds tops, maybe?

I don't understand how my lowly 2060 on a snail system is so fast.

This cant be the case, other people have insisted it can't be true.

Yet in every single test I do even with default non optimized materials and lighting on the Poser content, Optix blows Firefly doors in...

One would guess based on the Firefly speed claims all over this site, it is considerably slower...

The 9 or 10 seconds you would have to wait on the render on a nice current system would seem like an eternity....

Compared to Firefly, ya know.....

Seriously, Firefly is a snail compared to Superfly using Optix. On a good system standard Cuda rendering would be faster as well.

Or you can listen to people that don't use it, and want you to believe they have a clue.

Tuff choice, isn't it...

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

JoePublic posted at 1:54 AM Fri, 10 June 2022 - #4439776

I sent you a PM with a download to my Fokker scene.
Let's see what you can do with it and how fast it will render.

It took forever to render, almost 7 seconds....

I did not add a sky dome, just rendered it with Optix how you packed it up. The dome wont change the time much at all anyway.

I am sure I could make procedural shader changes to improve the looks of the grass, etc. but that wont make much change on render time either.

Everything you have brought up, is based on Poser 11. Everything.....

Poser 12 renders considerably faster than P11. I have a far slower machine than you do and it was about 10 times faster then your minute long firefly render.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Sigh. It looks like you're comparing apples and oranges.

Poser 12 is not an option as I'd loose all the legacy Python scripts I constantly need for my figure work.

(Besides, after having to BUY POSER 11 TWICE because of their idiotic "phone home" scheme, I'm not really in the mood to reward Bondware by upgrading to Poser 12, anyway)

The GPU I have is a GTX 1650. Which has no RTX cores.

Which, at least from what I've read so far, makes her actually slower with Optix than Cuda.

https://blenderartists.org/t/tested-optix-for-gtx-the-good-and-the-bad/1233793

https://www.reddit.com/r/blender/comments/r85j1s/cuda_or_optix_for_gtx_card/

I state again:

With Poser 11, on my machine, Superfly is WAY slower than Firefly. Tried it several times, including Superfly "optimised" scenes.

And replacing displacement maps with real polygons will be A LOT of modelling work, not to mention in some scenarios cause a massive slowdown. It's not just grass. What about all the detail work on clothing?

The Superfly preview is really bad. And as a "nice" preview is really important to me, that alone is a complete no-go.

My GPU is a Geforce 1650 GTX. That does not have RTX cores.

So probably no speed benefit for me, anyway.

Also, I have no "need" for a Photorealistic render, anyway.

The kind of semi-realistic "Poser-style" results I get are perfectly fine for me.

I'm all for faster render times.

But it doesn't look like the benefits outweigh the sacrifices.

But lets assume all those problems could magically be solved by upgrading to Poser 12.

And that all the Python scripts I use would be upgraded by some kind soul to Poser 12.

And I would find the time and energy to update / upgrade / convert all my Firefly optimized figures and scenes...

...all I'd have gained be a "better" render engine.

And Poser would still have no figures better or at least equal to G8.

Sorry, I upgraded Poser from Poser 4 Vanilla to Poser 11.

Without really high quality figures, I won't upgrade again.

Poser should NOT try to compete with all the other "high tech" 3D apps, optimized for photorealism.

The code is way too old for that.

It should instead re-focus on it's original target group: Hobbyists that just want to render pretty things.

Here are it's strenghts.

Build on them.

Don't try to emulate something you aren't.

Give your customers beautiful figures that can be adapted to any need with a single dial spin.

Or modified with simple tools that even a casual user can understand and afford.

Stay low tech, but add depth to your range.

JoePublic posted at 3:32 AM Fri, 10 June 2022 - #4439782

Poser should NOT try to compete with all the other "high tech" 3D apps, optimized for photorealism.

That is nothing more than your opinion. Seriously, that is no different than anyone else either, it is just an opinion.

Poser has been and continues to be a program to pose characters in on a computer screen versus having a mannequin on your desk.

That was the original target group and the original intent of the program when Larry wrote Poser 1.

It has grown massively to the point of being more than capable of photo realism, animation, lip sync, etc, etc, etc.

People have posted renders using firefly that are so good it looks real, same with Superfly.

No Poser does not come with all the content for 100% realism, and no other program I have does either.

Some programs have better content, some have far better tools to create help you create your own custom rigged character.

All of them have different strengths and weaknesses.

And if you think Poser is trying to compete with the big boys, I have news for you, they never have and probably never will.

I have two older versions of Houdini, a few really nice plugins for each, etc. Houdini is basically the pinnacle of making realism. And it came with zero content....

You are no different than a lot of people. Other than you constantly complain about what Poser is not, and what it should be in your world.

If G8 is everything a program needs character wise, Use G8 in Poser. No one is stopping you from doing so. And plugins were given away to the community to do so.

I use Genesis and Poser figures in multiple programs, there is no reason anyone else can't either.

I have worked on many Poser figures, far more than you probably realize. And you have been critical and complained about every one of them repeatedly.

So much so, that people that did the same thing literally stopped entire groups of people from creating content. Yet you blame them for things falling apart.

That is irony at it's best right there.....

It is your turn to make the next best Poser figure, you are obviously an expert at it since you tear everyone else's to pieces.

I challenge you to make the next Poser figure, and not have it ripped to pieces by people. Go ahead, I will wait...

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Is there a repository of successfully converted scripts anywhere?

regards
prixat

Not that I know of.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

I stand behind every word I ever wrote about any mediocre Poser (and DAZ!) figure in the past.

And I think the state the marketplace is in vindicates me completely.

I'm not a G8 "fan". NOT AT ALL. She just happen to s*ck less than the alternatives.

None of the "Vicky killers" I've seen in the past were any good.

Or at least good enough to fill the void that the loss of Vicky created.

Unless you actually think that it was my(?) critizism that prevented any of those figures from becoming a success.

I'm flatterened that you think I'm THAT powerful/influental/whatever, but I think it were rather the aesthetical / technical aspects of those figures that prevented their widespread acceptance by the community.

No, I won't help Bondware out of this mess.

(At least not for free. HeHe)

But I happily give you my formula for a "perfect" Poser figure:

1. Scan a beautiful woman. (And a man, and some kids, and whatever else you want to add to the Poser family)

2. Scan her in various poses, too.

3. Re-topo that first scan. Forget about that stupid "All quads, only" paradigma and "HI-Res" morphs and use edgelooping instead to bring out the muscular and bone detail.

Just like Michael 1/2 did, but double the polygon count and the edgelooping so there is even more detail available.

The figure should be able to go from "totally ripped" to "Zombie" by just turning a dial.

4. Keep the UV mapping simple, so that everyone can modify textures who has a simple 2D paint software like Gimp.

5. Keep the rigging simple. I prefer additional buttock actors, but they are not a must have. No face chip rigging or "ghost bones" or whatever clever trick that has been used in the past. All those gimmicks will make modifications harder and the cr2 more suspectible to break in the worst moment.

The simplicity of the 2nd and 3rd Gen DAZ figures is pretty much my ideal, but I prefer "integrated" genital actors.

So actually Don & Judy are even better.

Use bulge maps before you even think of adding a JCM. It takes maybe longer but it is worth it.

Use the "posed" scans I mentioned above to create realistic joints and skin deformations.

If the mesh deformes exactly as the actual human does, the joints are correct.

NOW you can use JCMs to get that last ounce of realism.

Do not add to or modify the default scanned shape "for artistic reasons" or because you want to make the final product "your own".

That can all be done later with morphs.

The default state of that figure should be that of a realistic human being. A beautiful one, of course, but realistic.

So that even those who can't sculpt can have a believeable, realistic human being out of the box.

Add lots of morphs. Preferrably based on scans of real people, too.

The more versatile the figures are, the more people will use them.

There should be room for professional ZBrush market place sculpts AND freebie dial spins.

Don't be afraid of Hi-Res meshes. Around 70K is ideal for the hero mesh, give or take a bit. This will allow sharp muscle definition without subdivision. Additional detail can then be added then with a Bump / Displacement map.

(I'm not completely against subdivision. But it is no magic wand to cover up problems)

A low res (20K) and super-low res (5K) version for background / clothed use would be very welcome.

I found the various M4/V4 "LOD" meshes to be extremely useful.

So, yeah, basically my favorite option would be to license the DAZ Michael I / Stephanie I mesh from DAZ, double their edge looping, "vacuform" them over an actual 3D scan and create a native weighmap rig for Poser.

As Michael 2 was derived from the P4 Dork (Which originally was made by Zygote), and P5 Don was also derived from the P4 Dork, too, maybe it's even possible to turn P5 Don into that "miracle figure" I envision?

Not to mention that P5 Don features the same mapping as Michael 1/2 (As DAZ failed to copyright the mapping), so that would give a P5 Don derived figure access to a ton of M2/V2/V3/M3/V4/M4 textures.

Of course one can build a figure completely from scratch, too.

Just don't try to re-invent the wheel and bee "too clever" for your own good.

Stick to what has turned out to be successful over the years.

The goal is to give hobyist users a versatile, robust and "easy access" figure.

Probably won't happen anyway.

As I said, I'm good. I have everything I need.

And I will "Poser on" exactly the way I see fit.

I'd be really happy to be proven wrong and Poser would one day become again "The premiere rendering and animation tool" it once was even without a set of new figures.

But I somehow doubt that.

Even CPU rendering in P12 superfly is light years faster than it was in P11. I have an ancient GTX 970 that has never been able to handle Poser rendering (never figured out why) so I just use CPU, which currently is a ryzen 7 3700x and 32gb of ram. Renders that took over an hour in P11 are done in 10 minutes or less in P12 and look far better.

I'd love one of the fancy RTX cards but thanks to all the bit miners and nft'ers a new gpu would cost me more than what I spent building my entire system.

My findings.

It is true that POSER is an excellent software that integrates many features.

However, it is also true that POSER lags behind its competitors in terms of individual features.

Even at my garment manufacturing site, POSER is not able to transfer all JCMs automatically and perfectly. With POSER's current complex JCMs, it is very difficult to create beautifully deforming garments. Therefore, it is easier to choose Clothe simulation. However, Clothes Room & Bullet Physics has also been in a state of limbo for many years. Currently, MARVELOUS DESIGNER in Korea is on the cutting edge, and POSER is not even close to being on its feet.

I don't expect it to go that far, but I would like to see it evolve to be more intuitive and usable by everyone.

They discontinued FaceRoom, I'm not saying it should become FaceShop, but if they claim to be a comprehensive software, please don't give up on creating facial shapes and textures even if you have an external modeler.

Animator has not improved its bugs and is being left behind by other companies.

Morphing brushes remain stagnant with no change in the number, type, or accuracy of brushes and no plug-ins to add brushes.

Superfly's rendering is a bit unrealistic. The colors are somewhat cartoonish, and the atmosphere is not clear, even when set with exposure and gamma.

The DAZ figure is covered in spawn, while the POSER figure is still slippery.

And so on.

I was around when POSER was acquired by a Japanese company (from POSER4 to POSER7).

I have been using POSER since POSER4 and have distributed many of my works for free on Japanese blogs (I also distributed two robot figures on Renderosity).

In Japan, there used to be many POSER communities, but now there is none.

Many POSER blogs have also become DAZ blogs.

This is the sad reality of POSER in Japan, which used to flourish so much.

POSER 11 was not a success, but at least up to 11, new features were added.

In 12, however, features have been removed, but no new features have been added.

Of course, figures are important.

We are waiting for beautiful figures that we want to use.

Now we are approaching a world where AI can generate and animate 3DCG from a few 2D images in real time with a single click.

nvidia's AI 3DCG program is also impressive.

Do a search for AI 3DCG.

I'm now hooked on AI programs. There is a whole new world opening up for all AI applications.

I currently have POSER 12.7.5.7, but the new PC I purchased in December does not have POSER installed.

I have not touched POSER for at least 6 months.

It does not have to be free. Please create a new POSER that will be exciting for everyone, users who have enjoyed and used POSER in the past, and will want to use it.

I want to be excited again too.

Please, please, please.

@Ambientshade:

Poser 11 already "broke" my figures with it's stupid introduction of "MasterSynched". One of these Gimmick features that sound good on paper, but did more worse than good.

The result was that I actually didn't use Poser 11 for over a year, until I found a way to pinpoint the problem and find a solution.

Poser 11 also messed up my "Poser native" Genesis I figures and broke my V2Lo figure!

So I'm very skeptical about what Poser 12 might do to my custom figures and my general workflow.

But be that as it may...

The main Python scripts I currently use are "MagnetMirror" and "MorphMirror2"

These are the two "must haves" for my sculpting work.

Provided someone would be willing to update them for Poser 12 ...

(I can buy something from his/her wishlist or send him some stuff I made in Wings like the Fokker triple-decker I rendered in a previous post. Or a "scale model" version of the USS Enterprise. Or some authentic 1950's Ray-Ban sunglasses for the various Poser girls)

...THEN I'd give Poser 12 a try.

I just hope it won't mess up my machine or any previous installation of Poser (Poser 11 and PP 2014 currently), if I need to unistall it later because it again broke something that previously worked fine.

(Or if there is no noticeable performance gain)

But I'll risk that, so noone can say I'm stubborn.

But these two Python scripts I need updated, because I won't switch constantly between Poser installations just to use a simple script.

Or go back to manually mirroring magnets by writing down their data on a piece of paper.

@Joe:

I'm not sure what your workflow is but I know there is a mirror feature built into the morph brush. I seldom ever use Poser's morph brush (zbrush has spoiled me I guess), but on the occasions that I have I can't really recall having a problem with its mirroring features. I do use it to split my zb morphs and that has always seemed to work well for me too.

I thought there was a built-in way to mirror magnets, but that's another feature I rarely have a use for so I haven't looked into it that far.

I generally have never needed to use many python scripts in all my years of Poser'ing so I can't really comment much on it being such a deal-breaker. I can understand the frustration tho for folks who have favorite scripts that no longer work in P12 and haven't been updated or replaced due to the original creators moving on, or in some cases passing on. (I do have a dire need for one script currently that I can't seem to find an equivalent of and for some reason have never been able to adequately explain it to anyone that understand python. I'm highly tempted to figure out how to write it myself as it should be fairly straight forward and simple to accomplish. Maybe I should dig into learning Poser's python).

Maybe its different for folks using a mac, but I have P11 and P12 installed on the same drive on my PC and both seem pretty stable. I haven't run into any issues with one corrupting or causing problems with the other, and the same runtimes are loaded into both. I rarely need to open P11 anymore but sometimes I do just to check certain things. I do have one script that requires P11 but I use it so rarely it's not even an issue for me to boot up P11 for the few minutes it takes to use the script, save the work and load it back into P12. And I mean rarely, like maybe once every few months if that.

P12 has a 21 day trial you can download from posersoftware.com. That could help solve some of these debates and give you a better understanding of the improvements its made over P11. At least then you could argue your disagreements from a foundation of having tested them out first-hand. And I don't mean that as an attack on anything you've said, I can agree with much of it, at least in terms of what Poser's figures need, and I've always admired your work as a character artist and the things you've done with the older figures. It would have been ideal if Poser had created its own set of in-house figures years ago and stuck with them to evolve along side Poser's evolution and not depended so heavily on a 3rd party source. But that didn't happen, so here we are.

The problem is that many Poser figures are not perfectly symmetrical. Also the mirror functionality of the morphbush is not quite perfect.

So while I do a lot of morphbrush work, errors will add up. (Sometimes that's actually good, as the human body, including the face, is never perfectly symmetrical)

But a non symmetrical sculpt makes rigging very hard. Weightmapping is quite unforgiving compared to spherical falloff zones.

Magnets are a much "safer" way to mirror a morph, so I still use them frequently.

I do a lot of figure "hacking", using morphs and shapes from various sources, so I need reliable tools.

So without at least these two scripts available, I'd have to constantly switch between Poser 11 to Poser 12, and that will get old really fast.

I'm on a PC, and I experienced in the past that new installations of Poser happily "take previous settings" hostage and overwrite them or destroy things that previously worked fine.

Even after a complete uninstall some problems were persistant.

It's a lot of work "settling" in a new installation of Poser. I have literally thousands of runtimes scattered over several drives, to keep my Poser library at least halfway organized. I never was a friend of just dumping everything in one big runtime and just rely on the Poser search engine.

To make a new installation work, I have to manually install at least 50+ runtimes, as automated install won't work.

I also have to edit the preferences to get rid of many of the annoyances of Poser's default state.

So it's not just "Download and run". It takes about a day before everything is where I need it to be.

IF Poser doesn't throw me a curveball like Poser 11 did with the "MasterSynched" nonsense.

I use the pose dots to automatically activate full body JCM correction morphs alongside a certain pose.

(If we had more or "programmable" pose dots in Poser, that would be a great way to simplify posing, BTW)

But with Mastersynch activated, the pose dots suddenly stopped memorizing those full body JCMs.

This made Poser 11 completely unusable for me.

So it sat dormant for over a year on my old laptop.

Then the switch happened between SM and Bondware.

When I got my new laptop, I tried to re-install Poser 11, but that hairbrained "phone-home" snooping software demanded that I log in with my original serial #.

Which I couldn't retrieve from my old laptop.

So in the end I bought Poser 11 TWICE, one time from SmithMicro, one time from Bondware.

Still took me a while to solve my "MasterSynch" problem and get my pose dots to work properly again.

Then Poser 11 broke Genesis and V2LO. I could fix both, but it was a lot of work.

So, sorry if I'm a little reluctant jumping on the Poser 12 bandwagon.

Fool me once ... ;-)

Anyway, thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.

Yeah, it would be much better if we could talk about the latest "Posette 2022" and "Dork 10+" products in the marketplace instead of having conversations like this.

prixat posted at 6:52 AM Fri, 10 June 2022 - #4439788

Is there a repository of successfully converted scripts anywhere?

Most of Snarlygribbly's Python scripts have been converted. you may find them on CobraBlade.
If you're thinking of commercial scripts: it depend on each vendor.
Are you looking for something special?

And in my case, I've started to do the same as a few others: I'm writing my own tools

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

(っ◔◡◔)っ

The script(s) in question or Ockham's and they basically just need converted from Tkinter to wx. http://ockhamsbungalow.com/Python/

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

JoePublic posted at 10:02 AM Thu, 9 June 2022 - #4439742

Without photorealistic figures, photorealistic rendering makes no sense.

Sorry for coming back to this, I just wanted to comment on a thing... So according to this idea, then it makes no sense that Disney went from this level of 3d quality

to this?

What a waste of time, huh? Just because the characters are cartoonish and not photorealistic, it's useless that they've developed real light simulation rendering, realistic fabric flow, realistic hair movements, realistic reflections, oh Disney Pixar has been wasting their time and resources all these years with 3d quality enhancements because only photorealistic characters can make use of that! It makes no sense!

(In case it's not clear, this post contains high levels of sarcasm.)

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

I just read through the rest of the replies and let me see if I get this straight.

Poser should stop all advancements, all new things, to cater to Joe, who has repeatedly made it clear he will NOT purchase new versions of Poser because he's stuck with old Python version! Look at this EXCELLENT business decision: get your program stuck in time to cater to this one single Joe Doe - I'm sorry, JoePublic - who will not spend more money on the software! BRILLIANT!

Ahem, my apologies, my sarcasm is leaking today. /endrant

@MNE: Face Room was removed because it required a load of work to support EACH figure. You can do better, more freely, on ANYTHING, using the Morph Brush tools - and I'm still baffled that so few people use it. I use it all the damn time, from effects to fixing pokethrough to making actual morph shapes.

And Poser was left stagnant yes, and that's what Bondware is trying to fix. They got years of dust to clean up, with a very small staff number.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Actually, I find this modernistic "cartoon characters in a photorealistic environment" style quite unnerving.

No, I don't like it. Sorry.

It doesn't help the story nor is it especially nice to look at.

It's just a another marketing gimmick to lure movie goers into the cinema.

But then, I also really don't like the new CGI that was created for the 1960's Star Trek TV show, replacing the old special effects:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8plObJh5aM

The only time cartoon + photorealism "works" is when actual humans interact with them in the real world, like in "Roger Rabbit"

Besides:

La Femme is not a toon.

A good toon character is not just a figure that aimed at photorealism, but failed.

It is something else.

(And, yes, I've seen the new toon character based on La Femme. Not my cup of tea, as I rather stay with the original GIRL.

But at least she's prettier than the original.)

Doesn't mean we can't have nice light or pleasant looking skin or so in toon renders.

But still, full on photorealism with "not quite" photorealistic characters is indeed a waste of time in my opinion.

And it makes the problems of the characters stick out even more.

Whereas I'm way more ready to forgive typical Poser figure shortcomings when the whole render says:

"I'm a Poser render, I am what I am and I don't pretend to be anything more"

But do whatever you like in Poser.

These are YOUR renders, and I don't have to like them.

Just as noone has to like mine. (Besides myself. At least sometimes. Lol)

But I still reserve the right to call out poor craftsmanship when I see it.

Especially when people want me to pay real $$$ for it.

:-)

JoePublic posted at 6:32 PM Fri, 10 June 2022 - #4439817

Actually, I find this modernistic "cartoon characters in a photorealistic environment" style quite unnerving.
No, I don't like it. Sorry.

Then go back to Poser 4 and stop bothering people who want more modern things, grandpa.

Edit to add: you don't need to lecture me on what a good toon character is.

edit again: I may have sounded way more accusing/insulting that I meant to. Sorry. I was trying to be playful, not to insult.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

@Afrodite-Ohki:

No, Poser should not cater to me.

I have enough figures and stuff to keep me occupied for quite some time.

Right now I'm contemplating weightmapping the P4 Dork.

And perhaps P5 Don, too, now that I fixed his muscle morphs.

Maybe revisit NEAena.

Still have to finish weightmapping Hiro 3, though.

So many toys. So much fun.

But Poser should finally cater to all those who left Poser in order to play with G8.

Instead of all those who are hypnotized by every little move "THE PROS" make.

People left Poser to play with G8 because Poser was left stagnant, then content creators got annoyed and jumped ship, and buyers folowed + too many people loyal to Daz figures went to DS because the newer Daz figures wouldn't work in Poser.

I can GARANTEE you that they did NOT leave Poser because it deviated from its roots or whatever. (And if what makes DS successful over Poser is, according to you, not trying to be like "the pros", then why are sites like Artstation - where the world's most pro pros post their stuff - full of DS ads?)

Anyway, those sound like nice projects, considering what you seem to like the most in Poser. Have fun!

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

To tell the truth. and I know it won;t be popular, but I've proposed this since the first Poser 12 release. The next up grade should be radical, drop everything not current. Yes the face room, firefly and bring the interface into a modern program look for the 21st century not a kid's program. Drop the rooms design and incorporate a realistic way to open the various sub programs into the main screen. Oh and let's not for get to strip out everything BUT weight mapping.

For those that don;t like the idea well sorry this IS the 21st century and it's time to move on. just losing the "weight" of all that code should significantly speed up Poser and rendering.

Letterworks posted at 7:00 PM Fri, 10 June 2022 - #4439821

To tell the truth. and I know it won;t be popular, but I've proposed this since the first Poser 12 release. The next up grade should be radical, drop everything not current. Yes the face room, firefly and bring the interface into a modern program look for the 21st century not a kid's program. Drop the rooms design and incorporate a realistic way to open the various sub programs into the main screen. Oh and let's not for get to strip out everything BUT weight mapping.
For those that don;t like the idea well sorry this IS the 21st century and it's time to move on. just losing the "weight" of all that code should significantly speed up Poser and rendering.

"What are the fastest ways to kill Poser? For $200, Alex"

I am saddened that POSER, which I once grew up with in Japan, is disappearing in Japan.

AIKO,HIRO,MIKI1&2,TeraiYuki1&2, AnimeDoll, NearMe, ChibiBel, kururu, etc. were born in Japan and in Japan Many more minor figures were born in Japan.

And most of those authors are now working in DAZ.

I got into POSER back in the day when 3DCG was not so common, rendering realistic humans at that time, and evolving with new technologies.

Japan is an animation powerhouse. Today in Japan, the toon character is not desired in POSER, and the POSER toon character is not appealing to the Japanese.

In the past, the toon character was also favored in POSER, but now Japan has MikuMikuDance.

It is very easy to create, install and animate a toon character. There are many motion files available, and you can showcase your character on the MikuMikuDance channel on the Net.

If you want to play with toon characters on a personal level, MikuMikuDance is all you need.

In Japan today, 3DCG modeling is being done by AI and broadcast on TV with a quality that is as good as that of the celebrity himself/herself.

Even if we can't match this, we want to create as realistic CG as possible on a personal level. This is the true desire of POSER and DAZ users in Japan.

Therefore, the revival of POSER in Japan requires more beautiful characters and more realistic rendering than DAZ.

I am sorry, this is a very difficult request.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

JoePublic posted at 6:32 PM Fri, 10 June 2022 - #4439817

But I still reserve the right to call out poor craftsmanship when I see it.
Especially when people want me to pay real $$$ for it.
:-)

Oddly enough, you repeatedly cut up everything that isn't up to your quality or standards... Free or otherwise....

Just so you know.... And just so you know that I know.... And just so everyone else knows.....

Every figure that ever came with Poser from P9 back was weight mapped. Every one of them....

How do I know that? I did work on most of them, checked all of them over for errors, assigned people to teams, etc.

I still have every one of them in my Runtimes... Imagine that.... Lots of stuff was posted about it forums, but you were not in those forums, they were not public...

I was an Administrator at Poser Place and a leader of the weight mapping and programming teams. I don't recall you being there.....

Those figures were not publicly released, because of a few issues that you probably know nothing about, and full well knowing people would just cut them to pieces.

How did we know that? We released two that got cut to ribbons, repeatedly, even by you. Years after Antonia was released you were still dissing it... Same with V4 WM...

You also posted in this very forum, that you had discussions with people weight mapping Antonia, V4, and the other figures.

Phantom3D was not the only person weight mapping the figures. Cage was not the only person working on the scripts.

You were not there, and have no clue who was on what team....

Yet you repeatedly claimed that you did know, talked to the crew about it, warned them about whatever, etc.

It was like you wanted everyone in the forums to think you were apart of it....

I have one of those posts up right now in another tab, and it is pathetic.... Complete BS....

You cut up every figure and the people that created it that you could cram into it, in the same dam post, on top of claims that are not the case....

Poser should not cater to the people that already left. That would kill the program for sure.

I have no clue how you can come up with logic like that, I really don't.

It is even worse when you make claims with people participating in the same thread that know for a fact your were not there, know nothing about it, and or misleading people.

Now with that out of the way, tell everyone about the version of Antonia that was done later at RuntimeDNA that you had absolutely nothing to do with either.

I know where those posts are as well..................................................

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

MNE posted at 11:06 AM Fri, 10 June 2022 - #4439805

POSER 11 was not a success, but at least up to 11, new features were added.
In 12, however, features have been removed, but no new features have been added.

I really just upgraded to Poser 12 for speed. Which is actually the sum of a lot of different features. It's just faster, but also adaptive sampling, and optix. I consider those features.

But I was surprised to find just how great PrincipledBSDF is. That made Cycles really accessible, and is very easy to build on. New feature that I never would have upgraded for, and now I use it all the time.

Post effects and the Intel denoise feature have been pretty useful for me too. New feature.

Replacing all instances of a image map across all materials is a pretty helpful new feature. I have not really made any use of the new drag-and-drop functionality there though.

Those are the ones that matter to my workflow. There is still a lot of functionality I have not been able to dedicate the time to learn yet (including old functionality, e.g. fitting room).

@shvrdavid:

Almost all my rigging work is public. Feel free to "cut it apart".

(I just ask you don't do this out of sheer malice, but because you actually want better figures)

If you read the included ReadMe's, I actully ASK for people to modify / improve my rigs as they see fit and re-distribute them.

They can even have all the credit they want, as long as they also include my original ReadMe.

But, honestly, I don't give a rat's a** how many private little clubs you've been part of.

I don't care about all that "social" stuff.

All I care about is the final result.

So far there are three weightmapped V4's out there:

Aery Soul / As Shamin's (No official release)

Phantom3D's

My V4-17K

Guess which is the one who's butt does not explode?

Honestly, your whining and attacks get a little tiresome.

There are no parcitipation trophys in CGI.

Respect has to be earned and can't be demanded.

If you or your "secret" friends can't deliver the goods, don't complain to those who are willing to do.

If you think my criticism is harsh, try building prototypes for scale models.

Or mingle with the real CGI pros.

I'm a rank amateur, just tinkering around in Poser, trying to fill a void many people are obviously unwilling to fill.

I'd be more than happy if a real professional would come along, offering me some truly realistically sculpted and rigged Poser figures to buy, so I'd never have to touch that da*n joint editor again.

But this actually hasn't happened yet, so I think I have to keep going on.

And now you will excuse me.

I've more productive things to do than listening to you whine that none of your little toys was good enough to replace Vicky.

Yep, that's the original one.

Her mesh design is still riduluosly bad, but her sculpting and expressions are so heartbreakingly good, that I thought she'd deserved a couple of hours of my attention.

And yes, Poser dumbed her down when they released the 2.0 version of her.

And Sydnyeyey was a complete travesty.

Whoever greenlit that abomination must truly hate Poser.

I never tried to replace Vicky, that is what you have claimed for years about everyone else thou....

I have designed plenty of scale models. More of your assumptions.

I am very proficient at Solidworks and I can also write the ladder logic to control it.

I don't have any comment about your rigging, never did either. And you can go back and check that as well if you like....

My main point was that you treat everyone like crap that contributes anything to Poser that you don't like.

You cut everyone down for anything they do for the community simply because it is not up to your standards.

You make assumptions about things you know nothing about, then repeat it like gospel for years..

You mock the owners and devs of programs decisions, figures, content, etc, etc, etc. Even on their own forums.

You think my attacks are tiresome? The vast majority of your posts are nothing but attacks and mockery.

I am sure it is perfectly acceptable for you to do it in your own mind, and then cry wolf when someone points it out to you. You just did.....

Rendo obviously doesn't care that all you do is launch personal attacks. Even at them no less, on their forum no less...

As soon as anyone says anything about you doing this, you grip and threaten to take your toys and go.

Your excused... Go pout now.

Unfreaken believable.....

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Forum: Poser 12

Subject: Why is Poser not free?