Just curious and not trying to stir the pot....

First question:

What in the name of everything good and holy is happening to Renderosity? This site is not even a shadow of the Rendo I joined back in 2009. Long-time members are leaving in droves. Many of the newer members do not seem to have a clue about community involvement, other than continually flooding the galleries with look-alike images, or promotional images. Most of them don't seem to have the courtesy or time to even post a one-word comment. This new batch of gallery uploaders don't look like they will be shopping in the store.  A lot of artists posting here have never left a single comment on anyone's efforts. They post here only to promote themselves and don't care about hobbyists or amateurs.

The entire site seems to feel colder and a lot less friendly than in the past. And the feeling I keep getting is that the site owners really don't care as long as the $$ keeps rolling in. Never mind the fact that all those folks leaving are the same ones that have shopped the marketplace for all those years. I know personally, I've bought a ton of stuff there in the last 12 years. I'm not sure what the total is, but it has to be in the triple-digit range.

So what gives? What is being done to stem the tide? I'm not asking for confidential information, I just don't want to see this site go the way of Hivewire and RDNA. This is my on-line art home. And I care about it. I really do.

Second Question:

What, exactly, is the problem with adding a link - or even mentioning - my Patreon or Ko-Fi donation sites? Poor lil' Rod is not going to be any kind of competition for Renderosity's marketplace. On the other hand, I'm a lot more likely to spend more $$ in the marketplace if I HAD more $$ available to spend. Right now, I'm retired and we live on SS only, so I have to be a tad more careful with the pocket-change these days.

Just wondering.... I think a lot of others are as well..

In closing, I wish EVERYONE at Renderosity a happy and prosperous 2023, filled with success and all things good. 👍

Hi Rod, that is something happening everywhere and yes either the sites get inundated with spammers [ when they infiltrate my store or sites, I just ban them and remove any posts they put, why promote their mischievousness] or they get lurkers, like me but I a least do something eventually, LOL. I do most of my gathering here also since Studio is not taking over and not promoting Poser much, unfortunately when DS is the only thing sold then I can see even more folks leaving. I too have been here for eons.

As far as your Patreon, you can say you have a Patreon account and what your name is there. You just can't put a direct link. The reason for the link is that it is a competing site since some people offer Daz or Poser content.

RedPhantom posted at 9:28 PM Mon, 2 January 2023 - #4452930

As far as your Patreon, you can say you have a Patreon account and what your name is there. You just can't put a direct link. The reason for the link is that it is a competing site since some people offer Daz or Poser content.

And, the other part? 😉 Happy 2023 to you and yours!

RodS posted at 10:07 PM Mon, 2 January 2023 - #4452932

RedPhantom posted at 9:28 PM Mon, 2 January 2023 - #4452930

As far as your Patreon, you can say you have a Patreon account and what your name is there. You just can't put a direct link. The reason for the link is that it is a competing site since some people offer Daz or Poser content.

OK, thanks for the info, Red - I appreciate the clarification - it does make sense. 👍

And, the other part? 😉 Happy 2023 to you and yours!

Pertaining to your other question. We've been looking at that problem and are considering options. I presented a possible solution, and others will also, but no decisions have been made yet. If you, or anyone, has an idea to increase engagement in the galleries, please present it. You might have an idea we haven't considered yet.

Hey, Mr. Wolf! Happy new year to you and yours!

I do have some thoughts on the issue (big surprise, huh 😆), and I'll prepare something after I get up and get my few remaining brain cells lined up, and working. I know it's a daunting task, and a lot of things need to be taken into consideration. I'm happy to help in any way I can.

Hey, Mr. Wolf! Happy new year to you and yours!

I do have some thoughts on the issue (big surprise, huh 😆), and I'll prepare something after I get up and get my few remaining brain cells lined up, and working. I know it's a daunting task, and a lot of things need to be taken into consideration. I'm happy to help in any way I can.

Regarding the engagement, far be it from me to have a ready-made solution, but who knows: a suggestion about highlighting or rewarding comments made in the galleries in some way.

Something like highlights by category (chosen by community vote?):
- Best comment in the "Comedy" category (funniest comment);
- Best comment in the "Technical Criticism" category (relevant analysis / adds value);
- Best comment in the category "Connecting the dots" (which associates the post with something unrelated at first, within a broader perspective);
- Etc...

@evargas That's pretty good, it's an expansion of the idea I submitted, but I didn't think about breaking down the comment categories.

@evargas That's pretty good, it's an expansion of the idea I submitted, but I didn't think about breaking down the comment categories.

I'm happy to hear it Wolf, I'm sure you will all find a way around it, this community is amazingly creative, we all have a lot of fun around here, always a good place to be.

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party (especially since I'm the guy that turned the lights on.. 😁), but I do have some thoughts, and I'm sure more will present themselves as the day goes on..

I honestly think one of the biggest things that would help the galleries in a huge way is...

Set a DAILY limit to gallery posts. I strongly feel setting, say, 5 per day rather than 5 per hour would be a great help. Firstly, we'd quickly see higher overall quality work being posted. If there's a daily limit, people are going to choose their best work of the last few days rather than everything they've created in that period. Viewers wouldn't have to wade through 30 similar images of a waterfall, or cute Anime images. I don't think anyone is going to be very likely to comment on 15 - 30 similar images.

I know opening the gallery and immediately seeing a page full of very similar images is an instant turn-off. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If they want to post more than one at a time, they still have the multiple upload feature where they can place several images in one upload. It would increase visibility for those of us that upload 1 or 2 images a week, rather than burying them under a flood of similar images. I think that would definitely help increase engagement.

Also, you might want to consider a separate category for marketplace promotional images.

I really like the comment ideas presented above!

Another idea I had was for the "Trending Now" category. Maybe comments on a trending image should be a larger part of where an image stands? For instance, today's top image doesn't even have comments turned on. It looks like the number of views is the biggest factor in determining where it stands. Just a thought.

I'm sure I'll have more as the day progresses. Thanks to all of our admins and mods for letting us be part of the positive energy here!

@Rods Thank you for your suggestions. I especially like the idea of improving how the now trending and leader boards are determined.

A couple random thoughts, and an idea before I head to bed....

In between a couple renders in the ovens, I took a quick spin through the 'New Art' gallery. And that's exactly what it was.. As I rapidly scrolled past 2 pages full of similar looking cute Anime characters, and promos by a daily poster, I had to stop myself - and analyze WHY I'm barely looking at these thumbnails, and missing a good many excellent pieces.

The individuals posting these works have a couple things in common: very similar images, and comments turned off. And this I believe is one major contributing factor to the lack of involvement. If I'm taking a "quick scroll" through the galleries due to this, it's likely a lot of other folks are, too. And missing some really wonderful art.

Maybe a feature that would vary the reward points for having comments turned on. Say 3 points for uploading the image itself, and a couple extra points for allowing comments for a total of 5. I don't know if if this would be difficult to implement, but It might help.

Hopefully this makes a little sense.... I'm half asleep.... 🥱

@Rods You asked some good constructive questions that need addressed, and by chance at the right moment when those questions are being looked at. I appreciate your ideas and suggestions, they are very helpful.

That took a nasty turn.  Frankly, there is no need to politicize these discussions, it is childish and immature.  It just defines your character and viewpoints that are really not necessary in the forum.

But I am getting back on track, the particular problem with comments, in general, is that there are individuals that are either afraid of constructive criticism or use it as a popularity platform.  TwiztidKidd is correct, one bad critique and the hounds are on the hunt.  The purpose of the gallery is not only to showcase your work but to improve on it and try new techniques and genres, move on to the next level.

I agree, the gallery is stagnating in true creativity.  There are too many similar images flooding the gallery; the same characters, in the same poses, in the same studio environment, etc.  It does get tiresome and you are less likely to leave a comment because you are simply overwhelmed by the sheer volume of it.   And I won't mention those narcissists that treat the gallery as their own personal realm to huddle insults to those as a backlash for an honest critique.  

There is always room for improvement no matter how talented you are.

@ Wolfenshire - Is there an active policing of offensive material in the gallery?  I have seen a proliferation of nude photography and I have no objection if they are done in good taste.  But I did come across a rather pornographic image that definitely did not belong in Renderosity.  I think a clarification on what is posted should be clearly visible to everyone.

@hborre Nudity is permitted with a content advisory, but there are criteria listed in the TOS that explains what isn't allowed. If you see something that may be pornographic, report it, or let me know directly in a sitemail. I'll take it to a staff review, and a determination will be made whether the image violates the TOS.

@hborne I agree, sometimes there are those that use the gallery comments to lash out. I also think there is some confusion at what constitutes a constructive critique. Thank you for your ideas and suggestions.

I'd like to keep this discussion going in a constructive and positive manner. Your suggestions and ideas about increasing engagement in the galleries in this thread are being viewed by the very top muckity-muck Admin suits, and is a chance to have your voice heard.

That is very reassuring.  Thank you for your support.

@hborre - I agree with you 1000% on some of those photos. Ugh.

Indeed, there needs to be some kind of quality standard, but that can lead to all kinds of squabbles about 'subjectivity.' It's a hairy mess to deal with. Years ago, I ran a website for a photography club, and that was always a problem finding where to put that "line" that all would be OK with.

Just thinking... we have checkboxes in the settings, so you can adjust what you view. Perhaps if there were a few more parameters available to adjust what you see in the galleries, your viewing would be a more pleasurable experience, and hence, you might be inclined to comment more often.

Well, that can be controlled with individual preferences if the parameters are set in place to deal with those subject materials.  But, sometimes, the filters are too broad to be specific and certain "subjects" can eek through the cracks when it's unexpected.  As Wolfenshire alluded to, diligence and reporting those violations are the best measure ATM unless they become a major problem in the future.  And lets forget parental controls, there are minors that frequent the gallery whether we like it or not.

Yeah, I'm talking with another Mod and we just adjusted the idea a little. On the settings page, you can hide the forums you don't want to see. So, we add the same kind of page to hide the galleries you're not interested in. That will clear out a lot of the clutter you don't want. Then, we had a block user feature, so you really don't see what you're not interested in. And then you have a clutter-free and pleasant viewing experience.

Would it be possible to add a "Block User" tick box / feature to one's gallery preferences? That would solve a host of issues... Perhaps limit the number you could block?

I really don't know. I know it's been discussed, but we're restricted to what the developers can do, and how the site is built, and other techno stuff I have no clue about. I would think, since we have the ability to select which forums to view, it wouldn't be all that hard to add the same feature for the galleries. But, that's why we need ideas. We keep throwing them at the wall, like spaghetti, and see which ones stick.

Yeah, I'm talking with another Mod and we just adjusted the idea a little. On the settings page, you can hide the forums you don't want to see. So, we add the same kind of page to hide the galleries you're not interested in. That will clear out a lot of the clutter you don't want. Then, we had a block user feature, so you really don't see what you're not interested in. And then you have a clutter-free and pleasant viewing experience.

Please keep in mind these are ideas we are looking into. They still need to be approved and implemented. That will take time. Please don't come back tomorrow and say, "But Wolf promised." We really want this place to be a happy place for all and are looking for ideas on how to do that. But we probably have enough technical knowledge to press an on/off switch, so what we think might work, the developers might say are you nuts?

I've done some really simple HTML (my website and a few others), but trying to decode some of this newer stuff hurts my brain. I can understand some of the difficulties in doing this kind of stuff. But it seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to add a few simple parameters. Personally, I'd rather see the 'block / hide user' feature than hiding particular galleries, but that's just me. Others might not want to see pinups, or AI, or whatever, but not block out everything from a particular user. It would certainly make the site a more personal and enjoyable experience. 👍

@RedPhantom - Aww, we'll give Wolf at least a week to work all these miracles... 😉😆 And I've seen the official "Developer's Bluebook of Client Relations." The first chapter is entitled "Are You Nuts??" 😁

I also want an elevator installed in the break room, so I can get to the donuts faster.

I'll send the TNA Gals over and they'll get right on that. Just save 'em a couple donuts. Me too.... 😁

Hello all,

I would like to give my point of view to this discussion.

I have no idea how renderosity was years ago. I`m here since about 2 years and from the beginning the forum was not very interesting for me.

There was nearly no activity in any category and the gallery was full of poor renders with very bad taste.

The thing which disappointed me the most were and are the comments under the pictures, the huge number of positive comments under pictures of teenage looking girls dressed like prostitutes. Renders with a little higher artistic level get very little or no reaction.

The quality of the comments made it very clear that there is very often not even a little understanding of art and also of the technique to create the art.

I would like to give an example:

A typical comment under an artbreeder picture or another photo which is manipulated with photoshop is, how realistic the hair looks like or how great and realistic the smile is and what a fantastic artist someone is.

Really? Realism in a photo? And they think it is a 3d Render? But the best comes, when the artist responds to the comments with the words: "thank you". When I realized, that the gallery here workes like that, I've decided to delete all my pictures of my gallery. 

So what is a solution?

I have no idea.

I thought one reason of being part of an online community like a 3d forum is knowing other artists and discussing art and techniques to become a better artist. I really don't see nothing of it here at renderosity. I don't know if it was better in the past because I was not here, but if so what happened? 

One idea I would have:

A very different type of contest!

A contest with a professional jury who gives not just a vote, but also an explanation why someone get the prize.

A professional analyze of a picture or an animation which could be a big help for all the beginners, who wants to know what good art is about. 

And another idea would be a creative discussion about the renders of a competition.

A very interesting thing for a competition could be, that not a theme has to be done but something like:

1.the most interesting use of light or

2.the most realistic render or

3.the most emotional face expression or

4.the most interesting interaction between two persons or

5.a special emotion in a render like: joy, fear, courage, despair, happiness, sadness, curiosity etc etc.

The point is forcing the people to be really creative and not just posting girls with big boobs and asking their social media friends to vote for them.

A lot of valid and strong ideas here, this is my view point from having experienced two very different sides to renderosity... the the general population gallery and the forum.

As part of a forum group where we all comment, comment on each others work.. post images, set challenges,  help each other out when possible, we are all there because of one thing a "common interest" ART...no matter what way it is created and being creative, part of a community that you can draw ideas and inspiration from...A simple format...

The general population gallery, has a very different feel to it, it's very much each to their own, and i'm only going to comment on your image if you comment on mine, same with the likes and faves, same with the art charts, this no bearing on the individual skill level and so on...it's all to do with likes and faves how many view you have and how many images you upload on a daily basis, this is just a breeding ground for competition, 

The likes and faves has always been a part of renderosity and i don't see why that should change, i would like to see that hidden from view tho, so only the author of the image can see, 

I can see the need for more involvement, and the rewards schemes suggested maybe the answer

But ask yourself Why do people create art.....

Do they you do it to be rewarded because they have, that could just reinforce the situation that this thread is trying to resolve

I do it because i love to be creative and don't feel i need to be rewarded for something i already love doing, same with comments...i will and have always made comments on others work, even when i spent a year with comments off on my own work...

Constructive comments i've done this, it a very fine line to walk, 

So in conclusion.....

The solution is possible....back to basics, grassroots, we are all here for one reason"common interest" ART and the love of being creative and the creation of art, nothing more a simple format...

@antony1, @Darkglass

I appreciate your well-thought-out and presented insights and suggestions. I especially like the idea of non-themed contests based on art techniques. Hiding the favs and views is an interesting thought, and the 'back to basics' and a non-competitive environment is appealing. Thank you for your suggestions.

If the comments under renders would be interesting constructive and informative, than it would be nice to keep them visible for all.

But mostly! mostly! they're not. So I find that idea, that the comments are visible just for the creator of the render very interesting and

I've really never thought about that possibility. I think it's at least worth a try.

After reading some of the comments here I get the impression that some comments were missing.

Something which is written looks like a reaction to something which is not there.

If this is the case, it would be nice if there would be some information about a deleted post and perhaps the reason of the deletion,

otherwise it is very confusing for someone like me who entered the discussion lately.

Sorry if this was not the case and I simple didn't understand something right.

Just a quick afterthought...

As i can't see the art charts being removed...but a rewording would change the suggested competitive hierarchy...from " Top Art" and "Top Artists"......to "Most Popular Art" and "Most Popular Artists" 

@antony1 Yes, some comments are missing from the thread, it was an incident that had nothing to with the discussion.

@Darkglass I really like that idea, it moves the focus from the artist to the art.

Just a quick after afterthought...

As i never addressed the issue of gallery flooding, obviously the only real way to stop this and not have to have everyone blocking out everything, because that makes no sense to me..you could miss something that you find inspiration in...

would be to have a maximum limit of 5 upload per every 24 hour period, that way, you don't get 25 of the same images....but that's not my decision to make

I just saw the announcement about changes coming (https://www.renderosity.com/article/26204/upcoming-renderosity-marketplace-update?aid=5613:2023-01-05-updatebutton), and was thinking about making a quick comment to encourage members to visit this thread with their ideas / suggestions along with a link to this thread. I wanted to check first to see if that was OK.

I'm loving the ideas and suggestions!

@Rods That's marketplace and nothing to do with this discussion. Community team and Marketplace team cover completely different areas.

Just a quick after afterthought...

As i never addressed the issue of gallery flooding, obviously the only real way to stop this and not have to have everyone blocking out everything, because that makes no sense to me..you could miss something that you find inspiration in...

would be to have a maximum limit of 5 upload per every 24 hour period, that way, you don't get 25 of the same images....but that's not my decision to make

AMEN!! That's my biggest annoyance with the galleries as well. 👍

Oh, OK.. Gotcha, Wolf! 😁 I was also thinking about posting something in the galleries - along the "Let Your Voice Be Heard" theme to drive more folks and their ideas here (with a link to this thread). The narrative would encourage them to be positive, constructive, respectful, and creative - and would discourage negativity, and stuff like what was deleted earlier. Thoughts?

@Rods The gallery upload limit is a dead horse for now, and if I bring it up one more time, they're going to make me stand outside in the parking lot and direct traffic. Better to concentrate on what we might be able to do, than what we absolutely can't.

@Rods There's not enough time for that. In the next day or two, I'll have to start consolidating the suggestions into a bullet comment report summary for the high muckity-mucks.

OK, Wolf... Dead horse placed in proper burial container and laid to rest in a short ceremony. Don't want to see you directing traffic, good sir. It's cold out, and people are crazy. I almost got killed last week by some nimrod in a pickup truck texting on his phone, and not watching... 😬

Looking forward to seeing how everything turns out! 👍👍 Thanks for all you've done!

@Darkglass - I don't know about some of the others, but constructive criticisms on my artworks / photos / whatever are ALWAYS welcome. One of my favorite commenters is Mark (Anahata.c) - the guy sees stuff in my work I don't even see until he points it out. Complimentary, or constructive, it is a valuable source for improving my work. There are always ways to improve. And I love it!

funny enough, a friend and i were discussing the Rendo of old after reading the last couple of short paragraphs in the article regarding MP changes.

and i'll agree with whoever said that this place does not feel like the Rendo a number of us remember.

some things that were said during my discussion revolved around how back in the day, as it were, people were more freely giving of their knowledge and experience, willing to share such things [without someone having to pay them for the priviledge], and how there was a deeper sense of an actual community between people.  these days, it seems that it is a popularity contest more than anything, but the site has been rigged to encourage that if you look at it.  everything is weighed and measured via likes, art charts, trending, etc... and while certain types of competition are rather healthy and aide in keeping people striving ahead and inspired, much of what is currently happening does not seem to 'feed the soul'...

i'm not naive enough to not recognise that yes, there were issues, even back then, but they did seem to be as rampant as they are today...

personally, i typically do not leave comments on people's work because i do not believe in the tit-for-tat mentality where if i comment on someone's image, then they come comment on mine.  that is NOT why i comment.  same goes for favouriting an image or following someone.  i do those types of things because i truly care and want to, not because i'm looking for some kind of validation in return.  and as far as commenting, i see images i could leave constructive feedback upon, but yea, then it turns into a witch hunt, taken far out of context, seen as negative rather than trying to be helpful... so mostly, commenting in that way seems rather pointless - people just seem to want to be told how awesome they are and it has become more about validating people than about the art itself.  not trying to sound like a drama queen, as i sincerely despise drama, but from a creativity perspective, it hurts that the art is getting lost.

the greatest sense of community that i've experienced here most recently has been when i was somewhat participating in Rhol's AI Thread.  i'm not an AI kind of person, but i liked, and want, that kind of sense of community that that thread has - folks helping each other, feeding off each other's idea, having fun, sharing stuff... it's an absolutely brilliant thread... [thanks, P]

i like the idea of dumbing down this whole 'weighed and measured' aspect of this site, making it more about the art, the creative process...

i do like having the likes/favourites stuff hidden except to the OP... smart smart idea, that

we used to have so much more diversity here as well in terms of artists and the tools they used, larger populations of Vue, Bryce, Terragen, etc type users, and more traditional artists, more writers, and well, just more diversity.  i know some software has gone sub-based, so p'raps your average hobbyist can't afford that steep steep price say for Vue - i get that, but maybe some thought into how to attract a more varied audience could help, if at all possible...

i think limiting the number of posts, no matter how bruised and bloody that horse might be, is a valid point... though, i don't want you to get cold in the parking lot either, Wolf...

i don't agree with being rewarded for commenting - my fear is that would just lead to heaps of vapid comments, but i think constructive feedback should be more encouraged, and i think some of that could be fostered through the mods... being a mod on this site can be tough at times, it's difficult to make everyone happy, but removing a comment that's not a trolling one just because the artist took it too personally is not a good idea [and yes, i've seen this happen more than once, tbh]

on a different note, something else that was mentioned in my conversation was how too many ads on this site do not revolve around art [just a side note as the site needs the revenue]

like Rod, this is my 'home', has been for over 20 years at this point, and i DO care, though at times, i wish i didn't...

@Giana   Wow, this is great. Your feedback here is golden, thank you. It's going to take a few readings through this to digest it all and put it in bullet comments, but your thoughts will be heard. And don't worry, I've got some warm socks to wear when I get sent out to the parking lot.

Just as long as there is someone signing your paycheck as you direct traffic.

@Giana OMG. I have to echo Wolf's response above! You NAILED so many things here - strangely with a couple angles I hadn't considered. And the exchange of ideas, knowledge, techniques back then was priceless. I remember Art Dorety sending me a Word file on how to do some wonderful details in Vue. (I no longer use Vue, due to the subscription model it went to, as you mentioned - I miss it, but we're living on SS so we have to be careful. My only sub right now is Adobe - I'd roll over and die if I couldn't have Photoshop! 😝)

I've been sitting here, digesting this wonderful input and thinking about it, and you're right about it being too much of a popularity thing, and not about the art. Everyone likes to see their name and uploads at the top of the "trending" page. But like Darkglass, that's not why I do this. I do it because I love it, and enjoy the process of figuring out "how do I do this, or add that, and how do I keep it from distracting from the main subject?" Thank you and Darkglass for reminding me.

And like I said to Darkglass, If you stumble across one of my efforts and see something that could be improved, PLEASE feel free to leave constructive feedback! I love it when that happens, because it gets the creative juices flowing even more freely.

Oh, that poor horse..... Not touching that...... Not going there..........Nope, nope, nope...... Wolf will be sending one of his furry 4-legged buddies over to eat my left arm. I'm a left-hander. I NEED that arm! 🤣

G'night all! And THANKS!

@hborre  lol, I'm just joking around about getting sent outside,I'm remote in sunny Arizona. (but not joking about the gallery upload policy).