The figure to be included as a Default Scene for Poser 13 is still a closely guarded secret.

That is to say.

The new figure is certainly not a unimesh figure.

Is it a new version of Dawn or a new version of La Femme?

Now, please let us know what kind of figure you think will be the main focus.

Andy 3

Pro!

It's a new skeleton... That way don't have to worry about flesh against flesh, muscles, bulges, what not. Etc. :) 

Please note this is just a satirical answer, as I have no clue as to what it really is.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?

I think Dawn 2 has already been ruled out of contention by Hivewire3D.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

First let's get it straight that the figure will be Uni-Mesh in its object state.  That is prior to import into Poser.  The Uni-Mesh that everyone is talking about is some mythical way for Poser to handle the mesh inside of the program that no one here is ever going to see.  The Mythical Uni-Mesh is something a small number of people have demanded over the years and to make Poser do that means a total rewrite of the program.  Which a side effect would be that all the old content won't work since it is no longer split.  What everyone really wants is a way to export the figure they imported and have it remain in the same order for the vertexes and faces that it came in with that way you could take it over to another program and work with it there then bring it back to Poser and not have it explode.  Also using the built in tools to smooth between body parts without spiking.  If it does those two things what do you care about how Poser does its thing inside teh program?

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13

hornet3d posted at 9:58 AM Sat, 4 March 2023 - #4457606

I think Dawn 2 has already been ruled out of contention by Hivewire3D.

It was, but I wonder if that may have changed. They said it was not Dawn 2, but that was when Poser 13's new figure was supposedly unimesh.

randym77 posted at 4:06 PM Sat, 4 March 2023 - #4457647

hornet3d posted at 9:58 AM Sat, 4 March 2023 - #4457606

I think Dawn 2 has already been ruled out of contention by Hivewire3D.

It was, but I wonder if that may have changed. They said it was not Dawn 2, but that was when Poser 13's new figure was supposedly unimesh.

No, it has not changed :).  Dawn 2 will be a HiveWire figure sold at Renderosity, not a figure included in Poser 13.

Cheers,
Alisa

RETIRED HiveWire 3D QAV Director

Well, so much for that theory. La Femme 2? Project Evolution?

I'm little leery of it being an entirely new figure. If the original plan was a true unimesh figure, it seems like this substitute figure might be something quickly cobbled together and rushed out the door. Which has been an issue with previous Poser native figures.

randym77 posted at 1:19 AM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457683

Well, so much for that theory. La Femme 2? Project Evolution?

I'm little leery of it being an entirely new figure. If the original plan was a true unimesh figure, it seems like this substitute figure might be something quickly cobbled together and rushed out the door. Which has been an issue with previous Poser native figures.

Project Evolution is a fantastic character, but it needs some work to convert the clothes, not sure that there's enough vendors willing to jump on board, which hurts its distribution. 

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Poser is used in the educational market, and therefore the default figure needs to be "kid and family friendly." 

So make the not family friendly bits, denser poly wise and morph injectable.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?

Good point. Though I'd think it would be easier to make an existing figure family-friendly than to create an entirely new figure.

Support is ever the issue. LF still doesn't have a fraction of the support V4 has. The chances of this mysterious new figure don't seem good, with Dawn 2 coming out soon.

Y-Phil posted at 6:59 AM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457700

Project Evolution is a fantastic character, but it needs some work to convert the clothes, not sure that there's enough vendors willing to jump on board, which hurts its distribution.

Which can be said for every single post V4 figure released for Poser.

bwldrd posted at 9:39 AM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457714

So make the not family friendly bits, denser poly wise and morph injectable.

That would involve completely redoing the base OBJ to have "no gens"  which would then "break" all associated morphs and content.

Changing the polygon count to add Gens can't be done by simple injection. It would have to be a geometry switch out. Different poly counts, different meshes.

To clarify. 

You have a figure that was designed for a more mature crowd. This figure has lots of polygons in one particular area. And there are lots of third party morphs and such that add further ... ummmm ... "realism" and animation to that particular area.

Now you hope to make that figure that's already out there more accessible to a family friendly crowd. That means you have to "morph out" the detailed gens in the base and smooth them out.

But now, all those detailed adult-oriented morphs will no longer work the same on a base mesh that has been smoothed out. The morphs will no longer look the same and would have to be reshaped to work with a "no gen" base figure. So really, the time to address all this is during the design of the figure from the start. Too difficult to make changes when there is content out there already that relies on the older default shape.

I look forward to mercilessly dissecting the new Poser figure like a captive restrained on a slab in a disorienting and indifferent alien abduction lab.

FWIW...Mec4D made some comments over at Hivewire implying that the delay in Dawn 2 was because they were waiting for Poser 13. Now that they know there's no unimesh, they aren't going to wait.

randym77 posted at 1:38 PM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457752

FWIW...Mec4D made some comments over at Hivewire implying that the delay in Dawn 2 was because they were waiting for Poser 13. Now that they know there's no unimesh, they aren't going to wait.

So, they'll commence getting the ball rolling for Dawn 2?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Asus N50-600 - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home/11 upgrade 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x

jartz posted at 3:27 PM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457762

randym77 posted at 1:38 PM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457752

FWIW...Mec4D made some comments over at Hivewire implying that the delay in Dawn 2 was because they were waiting for Poser 13. Now that they know there's no unimesh, they aren't going to wait.

So, they'll commence getting the ball rolling for Dawn 2?

That is how I interpreted it. She said, in response to the no unimesh news:

---

I just heard the news from people as well , this is not what we planned , I guess for now it was just a waste of time waiting .
You are right , time to move forward and then when they are ready we will jump on the wagon with P13 .
My intuition told me it would be not ready for March and I was right .

I just wish I know that one month ago no more waiting for now .. time to move on with it

---

Is the main figure of Dawn 2, the most expected?

You are not postponing support for Unimesh because you can't prepare the main figure for Unimesh, are you?

Richard60 posted at 10:24 AM Sat, 4 March 2023 - #4457608

First let's get it straight that the figure will be Uni-Mesh in its object state.  That is prior to import into Poser.  The Uni-Mesh that everyone is talking about is some mythical way for Poser to handle the mesh inside of the program that no one here is ever going to see.  The Mythical Uni-Mesh is something a small number of people have demanded over the years and to make Poser do that means a total rewrite of the program.  Which a side effect would be that all the old content won't work since it is no longer split.  What everyone really wants is a way to export the figure they imported and have it remain in the same order for the vertexes and faces that it came in with that way you could take it over to another program and work with it there then bring it back to Poser and not have it explode.  Also using the built in tools to smooth between body parts without spiking.  If it does those two things what do you care about how Poser does its thing inside teh program?

It would be truly trivial to do this.  I currently do this with a Blender plugin I wrote and it takes about a split second to map Dawn's verts back to original order.  Then I can play with the Dawn mesh in Blender (effective sculpting requires unimesh) and just export the sculpted mesh from Blender and Poser loads it as a morph just fine.  I was going to have the vert map saved but the Blender Python API is so fast it takes just as long to read and write the map as calculate it (in a vert count like Dawn).

The plugin even allows for a kind of "nudge"  That is, a split mesh that's ever so slightly distorted from the original unimesh.  That takes minutes rather than split seconds since it has to calculate the mots likely target vert for each source vert.

For Poser to do it would be even easier.  When the figure is created (split), Poser obviously reorders the verts.  Since it's importing the OBJ it knows the vert index from he OBJ.  And Poser can easily handle additional meta-data to save that index (etc.) in the figure data file.  All it has to do is save the vert map when creating the split mesh figure from the source OBJ.  Then use that map if you have an "export in original mesh order".

I really don't understand why they don't.  They have the data and the logic is simple.  Maybe a day or two to write, for someone familiar with Poser's source code.

Oh well.  I would have put that feature in years ago.

randym77 posted at 3:41 PM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457763

jartz posted at 3:27 PM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457762

randym77 posted at 1:38 PM Sun, 5 March 2023 - #4457752

FWIW...Mec4D made some comments over at Hivewire implying that the delay in Dawn 2 was because they were waiting for Poser 13. Now that they know there's no unimesh, they aren't going to wait.

So, they'll commence getting the ball rolling for Dawn 2?

That is how I interpreted it. She said, in response to the no unimesh news:

---

I just heard the news from people as well , this is not what we planned , I guess for now it was just a waste of time waiting .
You are right , time to move forward and then when they are ready we will jump on the wagon with P13 .
My intuition told me it would be not ready for March and I was right .

I just wish I know that one month ago no more waiting for now .. time to move on with it

---

I made a comment to that, to the effect of "wait, Dawn2 somehow depended on unimesh" And was informed that no, she wasn't.  

My guess as to the Dawn2 delay is all the additional content that's needed for a minimally viable figure.  That is, a certain base of morph packs.  I would think at least half a dozen.  A certain number of pre-fab characters.  Maybe another half dozen.  A number of conforming clothing items (more than a dozen).  And those, with morphs from the base morphs.  Textures for all that.  Anyone who's developed any of that knows how long each one of those takes.  And, given that D2 is new, development of content probably reveals obscure bugs.  That then have to be corrected, leading to down-chain corrections in supporting content.

Certainly, all the people working on D2 and supporting content are well aware (to the point they have nightmares about it) what happens when you release a not-fully-baked figure that falls flat.  You can't have been using Poser over its life without having a runtime stuffed with figures that never got there.

BUT...

The silence is not good.  It really isn't.  And the secrecy.  I see no gain.  It's not stoking anticipation.  It's not scaring competitors.  It's not hedging bets on included features.  It's depressing which I handle by just taking it out of mind.

 

Dawn 1 flopped because she only shipped with a few morphs, because Chris was more interested finishing in that stupid horse.

If Dawn had launched with the full set of morphs that she has now - the Poser community would be saying Vicky who?

Instead, the Poser vendor community continued to fragment, and here we are.

Might be a figure that will make us all happy " Who Knows "

5000 ++ Character 5000++ outfit sets Loads of morphs and add-on's how can this ever be beaten. The quality still good enough for good results Sure it is not going to be easy jumping from the Millenniums to a new figure. Why anyway ? you could of placed more efforts Improving that ever lasting flagship even more, rather then wasting all this energy in new dolls that never are going to beat V4 and end up as dust catcher in runtimes. But I probably forgot about the fact ( Mill are Daz ) and who wants Daz anyway  :) 

vopehov506 posted at 2:42 PM Sun, 12 March 2023 - #4458235

you could of placed more efforts Improving that ever lasting flagship even more, rather then wasting all this energy in new dolls that never are going to beat V4 and end up as dust catcher in runtimes. But I probably forgot about the fact ( Mill are Daz ) and who wants Daz anyway  :) 

If you think "It's Daz" is the reason for moving away from V4 and not "V4 is ancient tech that was made like 20 years ago", might wanna get your noggin checked there, fam.

V4 is hell to work with to make anything look decent (and sorry, your image there would have looked great some 15 years ago). Worse yet if you count all the "fixes" required to make her BEND anything close to how a human being bends.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

But you don't have to jump if you don't want to.

The greatest thing about Poser is that new features are built into the software, rather than the figures - and we have documentation to use them.

My legacy figures are weight-mapped.  Using Project Evolution as a template, I added control chips to all of my figures for expressions and such.  Ken1171's scripts mean that firefly to superfly conversions are 1-click, as are importing DS content.

Poser gives us the best of both worlds.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 5:38 PM Sun, 12 March 2023 - #4458239

vopehov506 posted at 2:42 PM Sun, 12 March 2023 - #4458235

you could of placed more efforts Improving that ever lasting flagship even more, rather then wasting all this energy in new dolls that never are going to beat V4 and end up as dust catcher in runtimes. But I probably forgot about the fact ( Mill are Daz ) and who wants Daz anyway  :) 

If you think "It's Daz" is the reason for moving away from V4 and not "V4 is ancient tech that was made like 20 years ago", might wanna get your noggin checked there, fam.

V4 is hell to work with to make anything look decent (and sorry, your image there would have looked great some 15 years ago). Worse yet if you count all the "fixes" required to make her BEND anything close to how a human being bends.

Well ok was a quick render .... but no need to be that rude towards Creators and vendors of Renderosity already that there are not that many left for Poser!

Btw that uggly 15 year old charater can be found here ( As you say )

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/92636/sase-willa

 

Thanks to a network of top-notch hackers, I have been informed that the new figure that will ship with Poser 13 is Peanut Guy 2.

Well  These artists were making great looking Poser characters, to bad they jumped over to DS also the " Better La Femme " did not seem to get there interests. Stil they done great works and still do for the Genesis. My personal meaning stands, They do not look like they were made 15 years ago !  Just because you wish having a new flagship does not mean that all the other stuff is not worth it any longer. First of all you need to bring out something that beats the older stuff then the discourse might change a little.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 5:38 PM Sun, 12 March 2023 - #4458239

vopehov506 posted at 2:42 PM Sun, 12 March 2023 - #4458235

you could of placed more efforts Improving that ever lasting flagship even more, rather then wasting all this energy in new dolls that never are going to beat V4 and end up as dust catcher in runtimes. But I probably forgot about the fact ( Mill are Daz ) and who wants Daz anyway  :) 

If you think "It's Daz" is the reason for moving away from V4 and not "V4 is ancient tech that was made like 20 years ago", might wanna get your noggin checked there, fam.

V4 is hell to work with to make anything look decent (and sorry, your image there would have looked great some 15 years ago). Worse yet if you count all the "fixes" required to make her BEND anything close to how a human being bends.

I suppose that you may be right from a rigging point of view, concerning Vic4, but from a customer's point of view, I find the way to express your point of view quite rude, too. 
I mean: once I've started to use Sasha-16, each time I try to use LF for example, I think 90% of the time that it's missing these morphs controls, it's miss those, it took an infinite time to move each part, etc...
I love what you're doing with LF, honestly, and I'll continue to buy most of your products, but... Sasha-16 is actually my way to go, simply because it's so easier, not to speak of the breasts controls (NGM precisely) that are cruelly missing from LF, a perfect way to have very nice cleavages.
LF, Dawn1: same problem: many many morphs are missing.

And no, I still don't understand how to implement those that are missing: I've detected a bug in the implementation of the controls to move Sasha-16's arms (there's a subtle difference between the left and the right) and I still doesn't understand how to correct this, so I can't add the same to LF

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---

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vopehov506 posted at 7:39 PM Sun, 12 March 2023 - #4458249

Well ok was a quick render .... but no need to be that rude towards Creators and vendors of Renderosity already that there are not that many left for Poser!

Okay, you're right, I sounded more rude than I intended, and I apologize for that. Perhaps it was my preference for more realism talking, but alas, that's not the only valid way of making art, by far.

What I meant is:  V4 has a lot of limitations for what she can do, even though people have been coming out with workarounds for them (see: Sasha-16). But... those are workarounds. It's wonderful that you all have the OPTION to stick to V4, or use Sasha-16. But what you said there was that there shouldn't be any need for any new figures.

It's a matter of choice: some of us will prefer to use the tried-and-true figure that has a lot of content, even though you might need a bunch of add-ons and fixes to make her look better. Some of us will prefer a figure that works better out of the box, even if it has less content.

Not to say that LF is perfect. I just think she's much better to work with than V4, for *my* way of work.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

There will most probably never be a release of a Perfect Doll where you will not have to make workarounds and Fixes, right out of the box ( Where would the fun be ) V4 still would have huge potentials if creators would continue working on her. Due the huge offers of addons still the most secure direction for a Vendor to be getting some more sales :)  I understand that it is more difficult now since Bondware changed the Python engine in Poser so many packages that contain Python helpers do not work correctly anymore, also the Lali for the Genitals will no longer be an option as she cant be created since Poser 11.2 Bondware version, same with the Perfect versions with all the fixes, or the Weight mapped V4 , the biggest loss are all the AS-Alice versions that will not be fully working anymore. The Python change was like throwing all these great works right into the shredder. With all these great extensions all these great Creators also vanished at least for Poser , It will be a loong hard way for a new Doll to reach the level V4 had reached that is for sure and I doubt that there are enough great creators left to accomplish this plan.    

The thing is... 

Imagine a new user.

If they were to use V4:

-Ok but she's not weight mapped.

-But you can use Sasha-16!

-How do I install that?

-You need V4, and THEN a download over it-- 

-And then how do I fit the clothes?

-You have to convert them all

-Nevermind all that, I'll just use usual V4. Oh damn, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH HER SHOULDERS?

-There are fixes for those! You have to buy them separately though. And then transfer those morphs to the clothing.

-Oh god what's going on with her butt?

-Ah they changed how magnets are calculated in a version of Poser-

-Why are we still even using magnets?

so on and so forth. Again. It's great that people can still use that, but it's just too much to expect vendors to still be stuck to that. Making things bend well without weight mapping is a nightmare that is completely unnecessary when we DO have weight mapping, and for vendors to support Sasha-16 specifically it would bring another set of complications, considering she's a third-party modification built over Daz's old figure (and Daz is each day supporting Poser LESS).

Me, personally, I think Poser needs a figure entirely made specifically for Poser, WITH the latest techs. LF wasn't picked up too much because  a lot of vendors have left and the content creation is spread out. At least that's what I think.

(And V4 reached that level because for years she was the only one, when Poser was at the HEIGHT of its userbase interest. People have moved away, because making 3d images is no longer the novelty that it used to be, so many programs make those nowadays, including some free websites. I think we gotta accept and leave the nostalgia behind - or keep using V4 but can't really expect vendors to stick to her.)

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

So who says you have to use anything greater than Poser 10?  Keep with that version and all your great V4s and her add-ons work just fine.  The problem of course is that vendors would have to choose between V4 standard or Weight mapped which ever version that might be.  Since everything works in standard you can guess which version will get the support.  And I am sure that the small number of V4 forever supporters have no problem with doing the conversions themselves getting a new person to learn that is highly unlikely.  I haven't been over to DAZ in a very long time but do they really have a bunch of new V4 content rolling out the doors?  A couple of products here doing a quick lookup shows products for DAZ V4-Genesis 9 using I-Ray materials.  Not exactly Poser friendly. 

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13

Weight mapping was introduced in Poser 9 ... granted, not as robust as in later versions, but weight mapping support does go back before Poser 10.

"V4 still would have huge potentials if creators would continue working on her. "

I bought thousands of dollars worth of V4 content when she was in her heyday, which now goes largely unused.  While I do have a runtime with all my old generation 4 content in it, I haven't added it to either Poser or DS in years.

Oooohhh, can I play this game?

Imagine a new user.

If they were to use LF or LH (or any other post-V4 figure).

Does they have any normal clothes?

Nope - it is pretty much lingerie, fetish clothing, or casual summer wear.  Why, don't you like all your art taking place in strip clubs or bedrooms?

Do they have any characters other than early 20's Caucasians?

Yes - we have 1 old Caucasian woman, 1 old Caucasian male, and a couple of other ethnic characters - why would you need more than 1 or 2?

Any kids?

No - why would you need those? they shouldn't be in strip clubs or bedrooms.

The selection seems to be pretty small for a figure that has been out for a couple of years already.

You have everything you need.  Look how well they bend - it is easy to see, since we don't have any of that pesky clothing in the way.

But I would like .....

I only make what I am personally interested in.  Why aren't you interested in what I make?  Don't you understand how hard I have worked on this?

Maybe I should try DS, they seem to have a lot more of well, everything.

The reality is - vendors and endusers left for a reason.  And it isn't the bendability of the base mesh.

(edit - any post V4 figure)

Well the comment was about the support scripts etc. not working in Poser 11 which probably some did stop working and Poser 11.2 does require the Snarrly fix to make the version number return something like a valid result.  So anything Poser 10 and lower to 6 maybe 5 should continue to work with V4.

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13

I do agree that it would be nice " IF " a new replacement for the flagship finally would be published. "Hope dies last" so it be that, that "TOP SECRET" startup figure in Poser 13 will be the Perfect out of the box flagship, "who knows" as it is a well kept secret ! So it better be really great  if it is kept as such a big secret :)  but I guess you might know more then I do. Ok I might guess " It will be a Male " 

ssgbryan posted at 6:21 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458349

Oooohhh, can I play this game?

Imagine a new user.

If they were to use LF or LH (or any other post-V4 figure).

Does they have any normal clothes?

Nope - it is pretty much lingerie, fetish clothing, or casual summer wear.  Why, don't you like all your art taking place in strip clubs or bedrooms?

Do they have any characters other than early 20's Caucasians?

Yes - we have 1 old Caucasian woman, 1 old Caucasian male, and a couple of other ethnic characters - why would you need more than 1 or 2?

Any kids?

No - why would you need those? they shouldn't be in strip clubs or bedrooms.

The selection seems to be pretty small for a figure that has been out for a couple of years already.

You have everything you need.  Look how well they bend - it is easy to see, since we don't have any of that pesky clothing in the way.

But I would like .....

I only make what I am personally interested in.  Why aren't you interested in what I make?  Don't you understand how hard I have worked on this?

Maybe I should try DS, they seem to have a lot more of well, everything.

The reality is - vendors and endusers left for a reason.  And it isn't the bendability of the base mesh.

(edit - any post V4 figure)

LOL

Here is a business suit for La Femme

La Femme Business Suit 3D Figure Assets La Femme - LHomme Poser Figures RPublishing (renderosity.com)

Change the texture 5 times and you have your suits for a week.

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13

Le sigh. *mumbles about decent promo renders for anything in Poser again*

Those images do not want me to buy that suit.

You know what I really miss ? it is to see such releases of top notch outfits and morphs, these were times where I spent my money to get each of them releases.

every time things like this appeared in the stores , not specially from this creator I just had a big BOAH gotta have it , did not even check the price it just had to be a part of my runtime. But sadly these times have vanished at least for poser, even that a few other figures tried there luck after V4, but never they gotten such a wardrobe choice and for sure not of this quality. Not even wanna start mentioning all the texture Pack addons of incredible quality, each worth the money spent.

 

Honest question:

Why don't more people learn how to create content?

It's not rocket science.

If you can use Poser you can create Poser content and learn how to make the items you're not finding in the store.

It's not as difficult as you might think it is. Time consuming and frustrating at times but not difficult. It's much easier to do today than it was in the days of V4 and earlier. Not just in terms of Poser's own creation tools but in the modeling software.

If you aren't happy with the content that's available you could learn to make your own and share it, either free or commercially and we could see less arguments about only seeing certain types of content in the store.

'Rosity has a bunch of tutorial videos on how to use poser as a customer but very little in terms of how to build content for poser.

We could have discussions devoted to learning how to rig a piece of clothing or texture a custom hair model properly.

Honest answer: because I don't have the bandwidth. I work for a living and have a family. This is my hobby. I dint have the spare spoons to learn yet another trade.

Rhia474 posted at 7:47 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458360

Honest answer: because I don't have the bandwidth. I work for a living and have a family. This is my hobby. I dint have the spare spoons to learn yet another trade.

Fair enough.

I don't mean it as in "if you don't like it build your own", I just mean it would be a more productive forum topic and could help increase the production of new Poser content.

It can be easier to build something new than trying to adapt an existing item.

Most vendors create what pays their bills. But everyone has access to Poser's creation tools, at least any version since Bondware acquired it. And simple things like pants, shirts, etc., can be created in a few hours.

Really? Can you point me to a single tutorial that explains how to create a pair of pants in Poser itself? Or a shirt? A serious question.

You need a modeling program to create clothing, unless you want to attempt piecing it together with primitives and the grouping tool, which is possible but won't produce very good results. A simple skirt could be built with primitives and either rigged or clothified. The fitting room will group a clothing object for you.

You can download a free modeling program like Wings3D or Blender. I haven't used wings in ages so I'm not sure how much it's changed but with blender you could practically draw the shape of the clothing you want around your figure and create the model that way. Even if you've never touched a modeling program you could build a simple pair of pants for any figure just using 3 or 4 basic modeling functions and it would fit the figure the way you want it.

vopehov506 posted at 7:39 PM Sun, 12 March 2023 - #4458249

Btw that uggly 15 year old charater can be found here ( As you say )

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/92636/sase-willa

I had not seen that character before. I like her! Wishlisted.

I'd buy more La Femme stuff if there were more characters like that. There's not a lot of darker skins, particularly of the idealized type for fantasy, etc. Seems like vendors assume that if you want "ethnic" characters  you want realism. I don't want to see every pore, mole, hair, etc. Just my preference.

I'm that way with old-fashioned style art, too. Back in the day, one of my art teachers told me I could get rich, because I made everyone look so much prettier than they actually were. I think he meant that as a (polite) criticism, lol.

AmbientShade posted at 7:45 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458359

Honest question:

Why don't more people learn how to create content?

It's not rocket science.

For me...it requires an attention to detail that I simply do not enjoy. It's not my forte. I'm a big picture person, not a detail person. I'd rather pay someone to do it for me.

There's also quite a learning curve. I have tried. PhilC had a bunch of tools for clothing creation that I bought, and I made a few dynamic items, but none of them were good enough for even free stuff.

I've also tried modeling. I've tried a bunch of different programs, including zBrush, Shade, Wings, Cararra. I've made stuff, but it was awful. Way too many polys. The only software I had any success with was Anim8or. I have used Microstation for 3d modeling in my day job, but it's not real compatible with Poser. I'm planning to give Blender a try, but I don't expect to make anything worth sharing. I'm just hoping to make stuff to use in my own renders.  Never mind the headache of packing it for distribution.

Then there's textures. IMO, textures really make the render. I have Photoshop, and I've made some of my own textures, but I'd never share them, because they just aren't good enough. Especially for human figures...textures are a pain. I'm more than willing to pay someone to do it for me.

Yeah, that's what I thought. For a second there I was hopeful, le sigh. Content creation is so different from what people buy Poser for and requires other programs to build...definitely not why ppl get into this hobby. Content creation is an income stream, not something you get into for fun. I think, at least. It's an additional job. Probably why people don't just say 'hey, screw this, no one builds decent historical clothing, let me whip  it up', lol.

Rhia474 posted at 8:14 AM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458397

Yeah, that's what I thought. For a second there I was hopeful, le sigh. Content creation is so different from what people buy Poser for and requires other programs to build...definitely not why ppl get into this hobby. Content creation is an income stream, not something you get into for fun. I think, at least. It's an additional job. Probably why people don't just say 'hey, screw this, no one builds decent historical clothing, let me whip  it up', lol.

Therein lies part of the problem. A lot of people want/need content that is somewhat "niche."

I love making historical clothing, especially medieval era clothing. But it's "niche" and doesn't sell as well as even real-world clothing does. And even real-world clothing doesn't sell as well as the skimpwear that most people gravitate toward.

Sure, I can try to create stuff for V4. But after 18 years of V4 content, you'd be hard-pressed to find anything that she doesn't already have, which means you try to create something that fills a void. And typically, filling a void also means "niche." And reduced sales as a result.

In my case it doesn't matter much, I use content sales to supplement retirement income for "rainy day" type expenses. And even to cover software upgrades now and then. But looking at this from the perspective of someone whose content income is their bread and butter, it's not practical to design content for an 18 year old figure that already has pretty much everything. I'm just trying to be objective and honest here. I don't want to cause a firestorm .. but "it is what it is". 8-(

So ... let's go back to medieval clothing as an example. Let's say you create a set of clothing that consists of 7 pieces of clothing, all which layer over each other. Vest over shirt, jacket over vest, shirt tucks and untucks from pants, boots over pants, you get the idea. Each of those clothing items has to be modeled, UV'd, and textured with at least three different material options for variety. Then you have to test each layer of clothing with various morphs and poses to make sure that pokethrough is minimized. After that you have to create all the library files so that users can use the product easily. And then there are the promo renders and marketing stuff. By the time all is said and done you are talking 2-4 weeks of work, depending on the complexity of the outfit. So let's continue with worst case.

So now, how to price it? If this is your primary source of income, 15 dollars is not an unreasonable hourly wage these days. At 4 weeks of time, 15 dollars an hour is 2400 dollars. Since most content marketplaces take 50 percent cut, that means the product would need to sell at least 4800 dollars worth to cover the time invested in making the content. If the product is priced at 20 dollars, that would mean it would have to sell 240 copies to cover that 4 weeks of development time at a reasonable wage, regardless of the figure being designed for "Niche" products don't sell anywhere near that, sorry to say.

I've tried to explain this objectively, and without attacking anyone's opinions.  I'm sure users would love a "make content" button in addition to a "make art" button. But unfortunately, there is a lot more involved to creating content than many realize. 

ssgbryan posted at 6:21 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458349

Oooohhh, can I play this game?

Imagine a new user.

If they were to use LF or LH (or any other post-V4 figure).

Does they have any normal clothes?

Nope - it is pretty much lingerie, fetish clothing, or casual summer wear.  Why, don't you like all your art taking place in strip clubs or bedrooms?

Do they have any characters other than early 20's Caucasians?

Yes - we have 1 old Caucasian woman, 1 old Caucasian male, and a couple of other ethnic characters - why would you need more than 1 or 2?

I see you haven't been to my store :)

And V4 has lots of those because she has lots of content, period. Most of the stuff coming out for V4 was ALSO young white women and clothing that prudes would call "slutwear" too. It's what sells easy. It's not what the creators like making - it's the other way around, it's what sells more.

And it all, still, comes down to the same thing: V4 came when Poser was in its golden era, lots of users, lots of vendors, and she reigned supreme for over ten years. Can't really compare to the market now.

My Lolita Dress sold over 200 copies when I originally made it for V4, back when I was an "unknown" vendor among huge names. Now that pretty much every current Poser user has heard of me, my Lolita Dress for La Femme (EXACTLY same dress, just updated for Superfly as well) sold around 80 copies. Why? Because not nearly as many people using Poser. And not nearly as many people using Poser means not nearly as many people creating content for Poser, which I'm turn means not nearly as many character and wardrobe options.

And ALL that ignores my entire point: having the OPTION to choose between new tech/ease of use or more content is good. I was just debating the whole argument that there shouldn't be new figures because we have V4. You'll always have V4. She's already there. You have the option to keep using her. The rest of us who don't like her would like the option to have something with the level of realism/quality that can be achieved with Genesis8, for example.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

And god, yes, Aery Soul's shoes are too far hard to fit. They were ages ahead to everyone else. I'd drool over each of those too.

Honestly, personally I prefer going fantasy too, but LF was missing so much of the basics I ended up doing very little fantasy. Kinda went every one of my characters has a fantasy twist option in them.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

@DCArt and @Afrodite-Ohki, thank you for sharing your creator experience and thoughts. I know you discussed this elsewhere a few years back and I am thankful that you're patient enough to repeat it again.

Rhia474 posted at 11:01 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458375

Really? Can you point me to a single tutorial that explains how to create a pair of pants in Poser itself? Or a shirt? A serious question.

I've been talking to staff folk about tutorials lately. Thinking about making some, after I'm done with my current project that's not leaving me any time to breathe. I too feel we seriously need stuff like that.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

DCArt posted at 10:07 AM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458400

Rhia474 posted at 8:14 AM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458397

Yeah, that's what I thought. For a second there I was hopeful, le sigh. Content creation is so different from what people buy Poser for and requires other programs to build...definitely not why ppl get into this hobby. Content creation is an income stream, not something you get into for fun. I think, at least. It's an additional job. Probably why people don't just say 'hey, screw this, no one builds decent historical clothing, let me whip  it up', lol.

Therein lies part of the problem. A lot of people want/need content that is somewhat "niche."

I love making historical clothing, especially medieval era clothing. But it's "niche" and doesn't sell as well as even real-world clothing does. And even real-world clothing doesn't sell as well as the skimpwear that most people gravitate toward.

Sure, I can try to create stuff for V4. But after 18 years of V4 content, you'd be hard-pressed to find anything that she doesn't already have, which means you try to create something that fills a void. And typically, filling a void also means "niche." And reduced sales as a result.

In my case it doesn't matter much, I use content sales to supplement retirement income for "rainy day" type expenses. And even to cover software upgrades now and then. But looking at this from the perspective of someone whose content income is their bread and butter, it's not practical to design content for an 18 year old figure that already has pretty much everything. I'm just trying to be objective and honest here. I don't want to cause a firestorm .. but "it is what it is". 8-(

So ... let's go back to medieval clothing as an example. Let's say you create a set of clothing that consists of 7 pieces of clothing, all which layer over each other. Vest over shirt, jacket over vest, shirt tucks and untucks from pants, boots over pants, you get the idea. Each of those clothing items has to be modeled, UV'd, and textured with at least three different material options for variety. Then you have to test each layer of clothing with various morphs and poses to make sure that pokethrough is minimized. After that you have to create all the library files so that users can use the product easily. And then there are the promo renders and marketing stuff. By the time all is said and done you are talking 2-4 weeks of work, depending on the complexity of the outfit. So let's continue with worst case.

So now, how to price it? If this is your primary source of income, 15 dollars is not an unreasonable hourly wage these days. At 4 weeks of time, 15 dollars an hour is 2400 dollars. Since most content marketplaces take 50 percent cut, that means the product would need to sell at least 4800 dollars worth to cover the time invested in making the content. If the product is priced at 20 dollars, that would mean it would have to sell 240 copies to cover that 4 weeks of development time at a reasonable wage, regardless of the figure being designed for "Niche" products don't sell anywhere near that, sorry to say.

I've tried to explain this objectively, and without attacking anyone's opinions.  I'm sure users would love a "make content" button in addition to a "make art" button. But unfortunately, there is a lot more involved to creating content than many realize. 

I couldn't have said it better. Yes to all of this.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Rhia474 posted at 10:50 AM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458405

@DCArt and @Afrodite-Ohki, thank you for sharing your creator experience and thoughts. I know you discussed this elsewhere a few years back and I am thankful that you're patient enough to repeat it again.

You're more than welcome. I'm hoping most realize that I'm a person that tries hard to see both sides of the story and that response was said with the utmost respect to everyone's feelings.

Yours included. 8-)

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:52 AM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458406

Rhia474 posted at 11:01 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458375

Really? Can you point me to a single tutorial that explains how to create a pair of pants in Poser itself? Or a shirt? A serious question.

I've been talking to staff folk about tutorials lately. Thinking about making some, after I'm done with my current project that's not leaving me any time to breathe. I too feel we seriously need stuff like that.

As far as modeling content for Poser, I would think those tutorials would be specific to the modeler being used. Sure there are basic steps that you can follow, but if users want a "step by step" what button to push, that's application specific. In that case, users would probably need to read the user manual and view tutorials for that specific modeler.

Poser rigging and MAT creation, yeah, they would be useful. Also making existing tutorials easier to find would be helpful as well.

Rhia474 posted at 11:01 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458375

Really? Can you point me to a single tutorial that explains how to create a pair of pants in Poser itself? Or a shirt? A serious question.

There is a series of tutorials for using the La Femme Dev Rig, which comes with La Femme Pro, to rig clothing.

Part 1 is here:

https://www.renderosity.com/premium-tutorials/141/lfdevrig1-gettingstarted

There are 7 parts in all. Covers everything from bone and weight transfers, to editing JCMs and FBMs.  Those are probably the most comprehensive tutorials I can think of that cover rigging content for LF.

AmbientShade posted at 7:45 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458359

Honest question:

Why don't more people learn how to create content?

It's not rocket science.

If you can use Poser you can create Poser content and learn how to make the items you're not finding in the store.

It's not as difficult as you might think it is. Time consuming and frustrating at times but not difficult. It's much easier to do today than it was in the days of V4 and earlier. Not just in terms of Poser's own creation tools but in the modeling software.

If you aren't happy with the content that's available you could learn to make your own and share it, either free or commercially and we could see less arguments about only seeing certain types of content in the store.

'Rosity has a bunch of tutorial videos on how to use poser as a customer but very little in terms of how to build content for poser.

We could have discussions devoted to learning how to rig a piece of clothing or texture a custom hair model properly.

1.  Because my time is valuable.  I do know how to model objects.  I do know how to texture objects & figures.  But it isn't an efficient use of my time.  I use Poser to write graphic novels for my own amusement.  If I have to create everything - I'll move to Blender.  That being said - I re-texture a lot of my clothing (and almost everything else), because I wouldn't be caught dead in many color combinations I have seen from vendors - I don't do freak shows (unless it advances the plot).  I also kitbash the hell out of props and sets.

2.  It is much, much easier (and cheaper, and faster) to simply run my clothing content through a conversion program and touch up with the morph brush.  For the end user, the end product doesn't have to be good enough to sell - it has to be good enough for the image at hand.

You do remember why the fitting room was added to Poser, don't you?  The Poser team was very up front about it - vendors don't support Poser figures not named V4/M4.  It is much, much easier to git gud with WW, CrossDresser, or the Fitting room than it is to reinvent the wheel.

Whenever you launch the two figures you are working on - they will have a vast collection of clothing content (sans shoes) within a day in my runtimes.  I don't depend on vendors - they only make what they are personally interested in, and I don't do pin up art anymore.

When I got the hang of WW back in the Sydney era, I predicted conversion software would kill a lot of 2nd & 3rd tier vendors in these forums - I was roundly mocked for my prediction.

And here we are.  Any clothing I buy now has to be better than what is already in my runtimes - and very little is.

Rhia474 posted at 11:01 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458375

Really? Can you point me to a single tutorial that explains how to create a pair of pants in Poser itself? Or a shirt? A serious question.

MNE posted at 1:18 PM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458426

Rhia474 posted at 11:01 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458375

Really? Can you point me to a single tutorial that explains how to create a pair of pants in Poser itself? Or a shirt? A serious question.

This is my tutorial.

Sorry for the Japanese blog.

http://mneposer.blog.2nt.com/blog-entry-383.html

Don't worry: modern browsers can translate on the fly 

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

---

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

ssgbryan posted at 12:30 PM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458416

AmbientShade posted at 7:45 PM Mon, 13 March 2023 - #4458359

Whenever you launch the two figures you are working on - they will have a vast collection of clothing content (sans shoes) within a day in my runtimes.

Gotcha.

I'm doing my best to provide as much starter clothing as I can, within reason. Can't expect a whole closet full from day one. Especially when it's just one person doing it all.

Fitting room comes in handy in a pinch but clothing always seems to work best when it's built for the figure it's being used on. The raw model can be refitted to another figure in a modeling app with sculpting tools like zbrush or blender. Trying to refit clothing the old way point by point would be a nightmare, its no wonder a lot of older lesser used figures never had much.

But I don't think the fitting room replaces quality content or the need for more. DS is capable of refitting clothing from* previous G figures to newer ones and people still buy the refits along with newer items.

Boy ohh boy that is hilarious " Sorry " sure that this way it will not gonna get any better for poser LOL 15$ an hour else I will not make a model huuh .... don't get me wrong but that is not the way art is working and for sure not a way to ever get any success. Are you aware on how an artist gets success ? sure not by thinking how much he wants to earn an hour before making he's artwork .

First of all he needs to give he's best, I mean best from he's own interests as this is he's strength. NOT what the crowd wants, the artist publishes something that causes the customer to think that he was not aware that he needed this piece of art. This is how the older Vendors worked, just by presenting something that blew you away.

Sample:

I made a model and guess, it took me 4h gave it to a broker and it threw out over 8k , did I know what to expect? Did I expect it ? NO ! It was just a thing that shows my interests not the one's of crowds and they liked it, so they got it . Art is expressing your self and if you know how to express your self you will get a little reward. " Just a sample of many " 

It is not the pair of Pants it is the whole package that needs to tell a story, then customers will buy that story that you expressed in your rendered artwork, to be a part of it, this is how you will have success with your models you created. Your outfit will just be the main attraction of that presentation. 

It does not really matter what doll is wearing it , as it will not be the doll that is making it , the main reason why you are stuck in thinking that a new doll will make it better, but that is just wrong . Be an Artist, think like an Artis and not like a business man then you might start having success with your Poser art again.

Not sure if you get my point, but it is how it was working for poser  and believe me these older artists will not be forgotten like  things that are published now just for business, that customers  do not even get aware of anymore, seeing it just as a product but not as ART.

 

I think I could create if I put my mind to it and I have tried a few tutorials in the past but my issue is with finding the time to do such.  Even though I am retired I find it difficult to get any spare time to play with Poser and I am still blown away with what Poser can do so I would rather spend my time getting deeper in Poser than creating content.  The closest I get is to kit bash in and attempt to take an every day piece of clothing and make it look sci-fi enough to use in my renders.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:49 AM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458404

And god, yes, Aery Soul's shoes are too far hard to fit. They were ages ahead to everyone else. I'd drool over each of those too.

Honestly, personally I prefer going fantasy too, but LF was missing so much of the basics I ended up doing very little fantasy. Kinda went every one of my characters has a fantasy twist option in them.

You have a point there, concerning him Aery Souls, and not for the shoes: their hair props/characters were reassource-hungry but so good, and they're still nive-looking.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

---

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

Y-Phil posted at 5:46 AM Wed, 15 March 2023 - #4458484

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:49 AM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458404

And god, yes, Aery Soul's shoes are too far hard to fit. They were ages ahead to everyone else. I'd drool over each of those too.

Honestly, personally I prefer going fantasy too, but LF was missing so much of the basics I ended up doing very little fantasy. Kinda went every one of my characters has a fantasy twist option in them.

You have a point there, concerning him Aery Souls, and not for the shoes: their hair props/characters were reassource-hungry but so good, and they're still nive-looking.

I think I tried to use an expression in English and got it wrong LMAO! I meant that reaching Aery Soul's levei is way too hard. Not that I've given up.

@vopehop506: that's a lot of words for "I want other people to do what I want for almost free".

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

>>> @vopehop506: that's a lot of words for "I want other people to do what I want for almost free".

Not my intention placing my words on how a Artist should present he's work for almost free, this probably would not be the case. I believe that 5 years ago a Poser artist was having much better earnings then today, but they did not sell a Product, they were selling there Art and Ideas. I am telling this from my own experience as I do not end up having a NON profit sale with this methods. In contrary it is rather profitable. Each time I think " What shall I create that could hit a sale " nothing happens ! When I just do what I really want " my self "  and place it out then the chance is way greater. Not always right away but later in the process * All of a sudden " like it were bread that is coming fresh out of the oven.

Not trying to say " You do wrong " I rather intend giving you an idea how your work could get a little more appreciation, so that these do not end up as No sale items. Even I could make it profitable, as if I would remain as a rare Poser creator no matter how good things are I'd get less interested customers ( One alone cant fill the hunger of collectors ) . The more Creators that are around catching the customers attentions the better it also be for me. 

Do you think Aery Soul had just success because he was alone ? nop he had success because there were allot of other great creators, what pushes an artist do do better and try to do better then others, giving there best. If you are alone here is not that pressure to do better and your products and promo renders start to get cheap with a big loss of quality. 

You might agree, there are not that many " Eye Catchers " in the poser store anymore " The art is missing " got lost somewhere . Half a decade back the release presentations were looking way better then they do now. This rat tail causes a loss of interested customers for poser, It even hurts my own quotes, even if you place a great presentation in-between it might just get lost, customers will get tired trying to find this Needle in a haystack. They walk off trying to find art that suits them in a better way.

I love Aery Soul's stuff, and have bought it, but TBH I don't use it much. It's just too eye-catching and unique. I feel it's not my art, I only rendered it.

I guess I prefer more generic stuff. I rarely use products out of the box. I like to mix and match. Morphs from one character, textures from another. I often layer clothing (dynamic is good for this), so my characters don't look like they're running around in their underwear.

randym77 posted at 4:07 PM Wed, 15 March 2023 - #4458548

I like to mix and match. Morphs from one character, textures from another. 

I do this often with my characters

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

---

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

vopehov506 posted at 3:13 PM Wed, 15 March 2023 - #4458541

Not my intention placing my words on how a Artist should present he's work for almost free, this probably would not be the case. I believe that 5 years ago a Poser artist was having much better earnings then today, but they did not sell a Product, they were selling there Art and Ideas. I am telling this from my own experience as I do not end up having a NON profit sale with this methods. In contrary it is rather profitable. Each time I think " What shall I create that could hit a sale " nothing happens ! When I just do what I really want " my self "  and place it out then the chance is way greater. Not always right away but later in the process * All of a sudden " like it were bread that is coming fresh out of the oven.

Not trying to say " You do wrong " I rather intend giving you an idea how your work could get a little more appreciation, so that these do not end up as No sale items. Even I could make it profitable, as if I would remain as a rare Poser creator no matter how good things are I'd get less interested customers ( One alone cant fill the hunger of collectors ) . The more Creators that are around catching the customers attentions the better it also be for me. 

Do you think Aery Soul had just success because he was alone ? nop he had success because there were allot of other great creators, what pushes an artist do do better and try to do better then others, giving there best. If you are alone here is not that pressure to do better and your products and promo renders start to get cheap with a big loss of quality. 

You made a few incorrect assumptions about me in your reply. I made it clear that I use this as income to supplement retirement income, so that "15 dollars per hour" doesn't matter as much to me. But it DOES to someone who relies on this for their primary income.

I've been creating content for 25 years. Most of my older stuff is retired. The rest of the items in my store are about to be retired , because I am completely retiring from content creation for a while. 

Whether or not you consider some of this as "eye catching" is up to you. But here are some things I did for La Femme, because I enjoyed working on them.

I could also show you a whole pile of Genesis content that I wanted to convert to La Femme and L'Homme, but they had to be completely reshaped and rerigged. Here's one example.. Is this eye catching enough for you?

Perhaps it would be wise to not make assumptions about a person's experience and abilities. Every set I made, I made because I enjoyed making it. 

DCArt

It was not an attempt criticizing your work or your presentations in any way, you seem of gotten me wrong there. Your presentations are of great value. The ones who have there years of experiences for publications do it quiet well. I am not targeting any of you personally with my words, I try to express my self globally, not pointing a finger on any of you " Personally ". It is a Rhetorik way of communication.

Would I of done so then I would of mentioned the personal concerned in my text. I mean that good poser presentations are getting really rare, they are getting lost. It has nothing to do with your work or Oki's works or any others in here that are capable of good presentations. So there is no need of personal concern. I guess you see it your self when opening the Poser store what I mean.

Concurrence is right next door, If poser can't keep up with good Art promotions they will fade away. If Artists of DS offer better presentations of there art, where do you think the customers will be ending up, fallowed by the few left good poser creators ? Poser/DS presentations are right next to each other, so the one who makes the better presentation will win the attention. No matter witch application is the better one, no matter what doll is the better doll. 

So to make things clear, I was not quoting you! either your Art! I am not sure why you feel concerned about my words.

You are correct that content sells nowhere near what it did 5 years ago. And DEFINITELY not what it was ten or 15 years ago. I've been mulling around retiring for a couple of years now. It's time for me to make this a hobby again, as much as I enjoyed to make content. 

randym77 posted at 2:13 AM Tue, 14 March 2023 - #4458382

The only software I had any success with was Anim8or.

There's a name you don't see often, and when I'm working in 3D I use it on almost every single project.  Is it a top  notch program with  all the latest features? Nope,  not even close.  In fact it hasn't evolved much in 20+ years, but it's quick, simple, and efficient. 

With that said, making clothes in Blender is a breeze. Literally follow an actual clothing pattern(like you grandmas used to use),  tie everything together non filled edges(that will  become the thread),  and apply cloth with sewing and shrinking, adjust a few settings and run it.  It will  sew your clothing together and shrink it right down to fit your model. 

I can  make clothing items all day long and use them in the cloth room, I have the hardest time rigging them though.  

For some reason, Anim8or made sense to me, in a way none of the others did.

I have tried Blender, but I couldn't even figure out how to rotate an object. I basically use it to convert Sketchup stuff to OBJ for use in Poser. I do plan to try some actual tutorials soon. That rocket tutorial looks interesting.

And what do you mean, my grandmas? Get off my lawn! I know how to sew with patterns (and even had a class in making my own patterns, because my mom made me).

One thing I would like to figure out: how to make dynamic clothing with thickness. Some people do it, but most don't. Conforming clothes may not drape as well, but its edges have thickness, and so look better.

randym77 posted at 12:06 AM Thu, 16 March 2023 - #4458635

For some reason, Anim8or made sense to me, in a way none of the others did.

I have tried Blender, but I couldn't even figure out how to rotate an object. I basically use it to convert Sketchup stuff to OBJ for use in Poser. I do plan to try some actual tutorials soon. That rocket tutorial looks interesting.

And what do you mean, my grandmas? Get off my lawn! I know how to sew with patterns (and even had a class in making my own patterns, because my mom made me).

One thing I would like to figure out: how to make dynamic clothing with thickness. Some people do it, but most don't. Conforming clothes may not drape as well, but its edges have thickness, and so look better.

I've made dynamic clothing to  use in Poser with an all over thickness,  not just  the edges, set it up  to  use self collision to  keep it from sagging.  You've got to  fiddle with the settings a bit,  and it won't always work--trial and error....

....but if you're familiar with  following a pattern and sewing up  some clothes(I'm an old fart too),  then that's very much analogous,  to making clothes in Blender.  Once you get used to  the using keyboard shortcuts to  accomplish everything it really is pretty simple to  get around,  and if you haven't used it since 2.8, you might be very surprised to  find out they've totally changed the interface. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdbXSPN_VUc

 

Art IS a profession, mind you. Making something with a mind for the market doesn't make it any less art. Even Michelangelo had sponsors with requests.

Feel free to go "I miss the fantasy and sci fi we had so much of for Poser in the past", but trying to define that something is art and something isn't will only make someone feel like it was a jab at their work.

In any case, I think we might wanna get back to the topic at hand 🤣

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

weiesnbach posted at 2:49 AM Thu, 16 March 2023 - #4458648

....but if you're familiar with  following a pattern and sewing up  some clothes(I'm an old fart too),  then that's very much analogous,  to making clothes in Blender.  Once you get used to  the using keyboard shortcuts to  accomplish everything it really is pretty simple to  get around,  and if you haven't used it since 2.8, you might be very surprised to  find out they've totally changed the interface. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdbXSPN_VUc

 

You don't even need to remember the keyboard shortcuts anymore. I don't. There's menus and buttons for everything now, and if all else fails, you only need to remember the F3 button to search - you can type what you're trying to find.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Oh, wow. The Blender I have installed is 2.83. Good thing I know nothing, I'd probably be annoyed if I had to learn a whole new interface. :-D

The latest version is 3.4.1.

From what I've seen, keeping some older Blender version could prove useful because of FBX version, I rarely use blender but once I remember I was happy to have one old version.
Totally unexperienced Blender user, so I may be wrong, but that was my feeling.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

---

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

Bforartists (Blender for artists) is a free Blender fork that has a more "normal" interface.  Buttons instead of just keyboard shortcuts.  I haven't messed with it much as I'm not doing much modeling right now, and when I do I use Lightwave 2018 or Rhino2.

i want this to be the standard of poser13 new figure to be.

bikini nudity

these are all HD morphs

this must be the standard of renderosity new figure ,the quality of appearance structure ,and textural features i want in poser13

722 posted at 1:41 PM Thu, 23 March 2023 - #4459342

i want this to be the standard of poser13 new figure to be.

bikini nudity

these are all HD morphs

this must be the standard of renderosity new figure ,the quality of appearance structure ,and textural features i want in poser13

It would be nice, though.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Asus N50-600 - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home/11 upgrade 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x

i have seen some of sculpte character exercises wips of Dawn 2.0 by MEC4D that looking  amazing it will be around the corner in the future i hope.

What you've shown depends entirely on having a lot more content creators and some time for  them to deliver so much stuff.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

722 posted at 2:25 PM Thu, 23 March 2023 - #4459347

i have seen some of sculpte character exercises wips of Dawn 2.0 by MEC4D that looking  amazing it will be around the corner in the future i hope.

I couldn't stand Dawn (1)
Absolutely terrible, but what I've seen from Dawn 2 looks actually really promising.

Nevertrumper posted at 8:17 AM Fri, 24 March 2023 - #4459444

722 posted at 2:25 PM Thu, 23 March 2023 - #4459347

i have seen some of sculpte character exercises wips of Dawn 2.0 by MEC4D that looking  amazing it will be around the corner in the future i hope.

I couldn't stand Dawn (1)
Absolutely terrible, but what I've seen from Dawn 2 looks actually really promising.

With all the hype I was really looking forward to the release of Dawn 1 but, like you, I hated her.  Dawn SE was a very different prospect though.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.