Some of you may recall there was a great product sold here with vascularity maps AND a Python script to apply them a few years ago. It was called 'Vascularity of Poser' and it was offered for V4 and M4.

Well, the product worked until the Python version was updated in P12, and now it doesn't, of course. And I (and am sure many others) used it heavily. The vendors who made it no longer sell here.

My question is: is there a layman's way of using those maps to apply without the script? Or is there a way to update the script so it works? I heard many to say 'it's just the compiler', but I don't understand what that means, let alone do something about it.

Bonus: are there vendors who are interested in producing this for newer figures?

There are a few scripts like that that worked well in earlier versions but stopped.

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

I have this product and I had started to investigate how to use it without python.
Here's what I've till now: a compound to be used whenever I want it:

Here's how I'm using it

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Interesting! So you save that compound node as a material to add, or... how are you using it? Compounds confuzzle me, lol.

@ Y-Phil: is it your intention to connect the displacement to the volume channel or is that an error on your part?

It looks interesting and worth a try. I have been meaning to visit this issue for quite some time.

Rhia474 posted at 8:15 AM Tue, 3 October 2023 - #4475733

Interesting! So you save that compound node as a material to add, or... how are you using it? Compounds confuzzle me, lol.

When you have a mix'n'match of nodes interconnected, and you like clean zones, you just select the nodes you'de like to have "hidden" in a kind a black, magic box:

Example: in the blue square: what I want to hide, so that I can re-use it later elsewhere

Once the right nodes are selected: right-click somewhere outside any node preview:

And every link from that group outside the group are automatically setup as outputs or inputs, and Poser recreate those links from the compound node

Once inside the compound node, if you would like to have one of the inputs (or of the outputs) at your disposal from outside: drag it:

So that from this:

You get this:

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hborre posted at 8:28 AM Tue, 3 October 2023 - #4475734

@ Y-Phil: is it your intention to connect the displacement to the volume channel or is that an error on your part?
It looks interesting and worth a try. I have been meaning to visit this issue for quite some time.

You are absolutely right. Once correctly connected, it works better. Here I've exaggerated the values just to see:

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This works very nicely. I've done some node modifications and have been testing. However, the face vein displacement map shows a huge discrepancy between the right and left sides of the face. Displacement looks normal on the left side of the face, but the right side shows receding vein lines as opposed to elevated. I would show images but it's rather late at night here. If someone can verify what I'm seeing then there is a problem with the way the map was created.

Also, see the topic "Cycles based SSS skin shader." You'll find a post from me (Tues 09 May 2023) showing how you can use legacy vascular/vein maps with a Cycles node.

@hborre: yes, that's what I am experiencing; see below screenie, using oz_tangles' setup from the thread he indicated (sorry, YPhil, I can't understand how you got those node names and connections, you must have renamed nodes).

@ Rhia474: Yep, exactly what I'm getting. I also notice it along the right side of the neck. These areas might be meant to have lower displacement just for show. But it's disturbing that the Displacement map is showing such a discrepancy despite the even symmetry.

I have been playing around with YPhil's setup and made some node modification that addresses the odd bump/displacement behavior we're seeing on the right side of the face. The image below shows the new shader node arrangement within the Vascularity compound node.

I am predominantly using the Veins Diffuse map to generate the bump/displacement maps. The screencap below shows the Material Room arrangement for the face. IIRC, the original product used both the Bump and Displacement channels to elevate the veins on the skin surface. I still don't know why one side of the face renders correctly and the other side not but I managed to find the approximate combinations to make the displacement work.

My Poser units is in Feet and the particular skin texture I was working with did not contain a bump map so I had to improvise. Note the values on the Bump node, they should remain at those values for this to work. Control the amount of displacement on the Vascularity node, using very wide ranges to exaggerate the veins will cause the artifact to appear again. If the balance is achieved, you will get the results below.

It's not perfect but the shadows are appearing in the right direction.

Right now, I am running a series of different light sets with this and the results are very variable. I have a feeling that the lights are what is causing this affect.

hborre posted at 10:27 PM Wed, 4 October 2023 - #4475849

Right now, I am running a series of different light sets with this and the results are very variable. I have a feeling that the lights are what is causing this affect.

Awesome

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I still don't understand how you guys are getting those node names, can someone please explain to me what, for instance is the 'Vasc. level' node is and how to find it? I think the 'Vasc mix ix a Cycles Mix node, right? Thank you so much!

Double-clicking on the node's title bar will allow you to rename the node, which can lead to confusion when displaying a screencap for others. But it's a direct way to identify specific nodes and their function in the scheme of complex shader noodling. When creating a compound node3, you can specifically name the inputs, again to identify what is connected to where. The 'Vasc level' input determines how prominently the veins will appear from the diffuse map. Value = 1 shows the blue coloring of the veins while the value = 0 will show no veins on the skin texture—all values in between govern the intensity. And you are correct, Rhia, the 'Vasc Mix' nod is a Cycles-specific node, although you can rename all the nodes for Firefly use also.

Okay, thanks. That still does not tell me where to find the node that was named 'Vasc. Level' though... or how to construct the External input node on the right (output node names are also custom there I suspect)?

My apologies for all the questions but if I would like to recreate this ( since i asked the question) I would need to know.

If this is explained in the manual, just tell me to read it, but I don't recall.

Really appreciate the help!

This is covered in the Poser manual. In the search field, type in Compound node or Compound nodes, and you will get several instructional links. It's straightforward, but let us know if you have any specific questions about it. It's unfamiliar territory for many users, especially when you want to break it down to its basic nodes.

Looking at Phil's nodes, First image: Mix vascularity and Vasc Level are mix nodes. the vien disp. and Veins diffuse are image maps

second image: compound nodes and image maps.

I think the rest have their original names.

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Thanks, hborre, I will poke around in the manual.

I really wish there were scripts for P13 for adding Veins, tattoos, scars etc. I am sure many would pay for them. These are a mainstream in the other software, and I never understood why they are lacking for Poser in its newer iterations.

I understand you can make them wuth nodes or in Photoshop, that's not my issue. It is the lack of ease which is there in DAZ, just by perusing the store here.

The skin compound node is a combination of the PrincipledBSDF, HSV, and Bump nodes. The connector descriptions give away what nodes are being used.

What is External Inputs???I'm sorry, I think I will have to remain with what oz_tangles showed. You guys are WAY too advanced for me.

This is what I got for now:

Rhia474 posted at 5:54 PM Thu, 5 October 2023 - #4475887

What is External Inputs???I'm sorry, I think I will have to remain with what oz_tangles showed. You guys are WAY too advanced for me.

Inside the compound node, you have two specific nodes, always present:
- External Inputs
- External Outputs

"Internal Inputs" correspond to the place where you connect what is kind of entering the Compound Node. Exemple with the "Cycles Surface" node:
- Surface
- Volume
- Displacement

Think that each node you use in the Material Room is in fact a Compound Node, but of the sort you can't look in.

The same way, "External Outputs" are where the signal, once computed in the Compound Node, will exit. Example with the Image Node: the "Color" output, which is also a kind of Compound Node, as it reads your image, process it with some parameters you control (U-scale, V-scale, offsets, etc...) and transforms all this into an information flow usable by other nodes

The specificity of a user's Compound Node is that:
- you control what you put in and how the information flow is processed
- you control which parameters and which outputs you want outside your new "magic node", a bit like adapting the buttons on a remote control, repositioning them, and why not offer to make coffee with one of the buttons you don't use to control the television

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I think I understand that but *where* ate those nodes if I am trying to find them? I don't see a type like that either under traditional or Cycles nodes? I have the feeling ibam missing something basic here...

They're created automatically inside a compound node

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I have used vascularity maps with the Firefly renderer for years without any problems. About I year ago I switched to Superfly and started seeing the same weird effects that hborre described: veins that appear to recede from rather than stand out from the surface. I lodged a support ticket but got a reply along the lines of "well, Superfly is different so what do you expect?" I thought it might have been fixed with Poser 13 but it's still with us.

Here's my two cents worth for the Poser brain trust to consider:

I used the standard Poser Surface root node with an old figure and maps, NOT the Cycles node. This makes it easier to compare Superfly and Firefly images. The displacement value has been set to1.25 mm and the subdivision level for the figure is set to 1. The first image shows the figure rendered using Firefly.

The vascularity is not overly prominent: it's most obvious in the groin area and on his elbow. The next image is the same figure rendered using Superfly with exactly the same Poser root node. I used the Optix GPU render engine, but I get the same results using my computer's CPU, so it's not an NVIDIA thing.

Woah! First, the displacement is unrealistically large. It certainly isn't 1.25 mm! (Raising the subdivision level doesn't seem to change anything). The second thing is that some veins stand out while others recede. The scene uses 2 infinite lights. Rotating the figure does seem to change where the receding veins are located, an effect that hborre has also mentioned.

The final render is the same as the previous one but with the displacement set to 0.125 mm.

The veins now look much more realistic, but there are still receding veins (especially in the figure's right arm).

All this suggests to me that there is a problem in the way Superfly handles displacement. The "receding" effect may be a fault in the way shadows are calculated, and the magnitude of the displacement is unphysical (a displacement of 0.125 mm should be essentially invisible).

Displacement maps are also used for non-human figures and props (walls, etc.) so this problem has wider implications.

A couple of things to keep in mind: 1) FireFly uses micro-polygon displacement which basically means that every single pixel on the final rendered image becomes a vertex point so a map applied will raise or lower each point accordingly. 2) Cycles/SuperFly only work on the actual Vertex points that are in the mesh, so unless you crank the subdivision level up several times you won't get anywhere close to the same result. This has always been the case ever since Poser 11 came out. 3) FireFly's displacement maps (based on a Gray Scale Map) have NO displacement with a value of 127, Zero goes in and 255 goes out. So, if you are feeding the Cycles engine with the same map then it starts with the skin already displaced.

When Poser 11 first came out and there were no SuperFly materials making it so the two render engines could basically use the same materials made sense. However there does come a time when the two are going to become very different and expecting them to keep working and giving the same results with the same setup is counterproductive and holds everything back.

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So the question remains, still: how does one achieve vascularity with Superfly since the 'traditional' Poser Firefly displacement does not work. We'd need new maps, new scripts...Hence my question if perhaps a vendor would be willing to figure this out for sellable products?

It totally is baffling to me still why there are all sorts of easily applicable solutions for scars, tattoos, freckles, moles and vascularity in DAZ, while new versions of Poser are completely void of this (there were excellent products for older versions of Poser for it). Is there so little interest in this type of realism? Or those who0 are interested are so well-versed in the Material Room that they are just producing it for themselves and end-users like me are left wanting, asking here and slowly piecing it together, stumbling and failing?

I don't wish to move over to the other software, but this makes me somewhat sad.

Oh may God, I wonder if it's not an optical illusion, if my brain has not decided to see mini-canyons where these are more mini-mountains

I mean:

My setup has two lights on the left, one on the front and one the back.
Below, both tries were made using hborre's solution as I'm still not sure if the original displacement map isn't totally aligned with the veins...

I've just exaggerated the displacement value (note that it doesn't seem to be units dependent, contrary to to the SSS radius values)

Lit from behind:

Lit from the front:

Honestly: my impression is that my brain is "seeing wrong".

If I'll use that package again, that'll be without displacement. I wonder if that's clear enough and I'm thinking to a small video I saw, in which the face of a known personality was turning slowly from right to left and vice-versa: I was unable to decide definitely if it was concave or convex

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It's not you, it's the Superfly view of displacement. It's all wrong. :) I remember when I was looking for a goof fur solution, the only thing I could come up with was to crank up Subdivision of the fur item. WAYYYYY up.

Rhia474 posted at 12:12 PM Sun, 8 October 2023 - #4475974

It's not you, it's the Superfly view of displacement. It's all wrong. :) I remember when I was looking for a goof fur solution, the only thing I could come up with was to crank up Subdivision of the fur item. WAYYYYY up.

It you look at the arrow, you 'll see that it kind of goes out of the face, in both case

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You seem to be making your life very complicated .... Just use Bump settings instead of displacements, it might give you the results you are looking for in P13 Superfly.

Vascularity renders on V4 Poser 13 Optix Superfly Render ... Quick basic test

The problem area is being obscured in your renders. Unless we are dealing with an optical illusion in the render, we get this with just the bump settings.

We have depressions in the model on the right side of the face although displacement works properly in most places of the body. This is using Cycles which should be straightforward and simple.

In your render it seems more like an effect that Gradient bump was making in firefly using s tangent ... one side was inverted getting a mix of negative and positive results , such results in a render sure would make them useless.

As I get a little time I'll try to drop a Material file in here with the vascularity setting that you can just load your Maps into renamed nodes, would make life easy for simple users. Also thought to add a instance with a optional node giving the veins a Alien Blood look Like Glowing yellow or green. ( You will just need to use your own maps )

After checking again I could not find any Problem zones on the setup used for the superfly renders ( No negative Vein effects that is causing branding or scar effects on superfly renders )

running some setup tests with bump and displacement for the Mat file both seem to be working on P13 Superfly. Just a quick setup to check if nodes are ok added glow no skin maps ( Glow might reduce the Vein shadow effects )

Bump setting

Displacement setting

This is what I'v got so far for Vascularity in Poser 13 Superfly. But noted there is not further interests in a simple setup, users might of found there own solutions by now. so not wasting any further time on this :) Some Creator might sell one day a feature in the store for P13

I'm not sure why you're saying there was no interest in a simple setup. I don't know what your solution was because I did not see your note setup while I saw others', I only saw your images you posted here. As the originator of this thread, I'd be very interested. However, if you feel you 'wasted your time' on this, I have nothing else to say.

Thought there was not much interest as there were no further reactions in this thread ....

This is how the setup looks like in my setup the attached Mt file can be loaded on a desired region of your loaded model. Add your Vascularity textures into the Nodes, copy the 3 nodes and apply to each region of your textured model. Attach the nodes to the Bump, set bump to .008 depending on the strength you wish a little higher or lower.

Vascularity.Mt5 Download

Note: It is a simple setup giving the "basics" for further effects, to get the glowing veins I just attached the value-1 Veins node to either Alternate Diffuse or Ambient color to get a Alien effect. It works in every Poser version Firefly and superfly and is no big magic.

What is your unit of measure? Feet? Inches? Millimeters? Simply stating to set your bump value to 0.008 is meaningless unless you specify your unit of measure.

actually using the Standard poser units ... never changed the settings ..." it should be Feet " in the interface Units. I think most users just leave it as it is , personally never had the need to change this interface setting :)

Anyway, it is up to any individual how he wants to achieve these Veins effects or even scales on a skin, this method is simple, does the trick very well for many effects without having to mess around with loads of nodes in cycles or whatsoever being frustrated not getting good results. Guess people are happy if getting a good 2d render result is a simple way, same thing for skinning a model :)

I also think it would be more convenient for forum members getting Mt5 setups instead of complex screenshots of setups that they almost cant figure out how they got built, ending up to give up, for the one who is giving a solution it is also the better choice to drop a Mt5 sample rather then making screens and trying to explain the cause, for most it just needs to work in a simple way.

Vascularity.Mt5 Download

Info: Adding this setup to Displacement on head and neck could cause a inverted effect on the right side of the figure so better use Bump in these two regions for superfly

"I also think it would be more convenient for forum members getting Mt5 setups instead of complex screenshots of setups that they almost cant figure out how they got built, ending up to give up, for the one who is giving a solution it is also the better choice to drop a Mt5 sample rather then making screens and trying to explain the cause, for most it just needs to work in a simple way. "

Indeed!

I've completely given up on "Supafly" for various reasons, but this is one of them.

I still remember all those tiresome Firefly discussions and the hours I spent trying to recreate the spaghetti code when BagginsBill posted his latest weekly "discovery".

Lol.

This is the exact same scenario.

Lots of poking around in the dark, because:

1. Supahfly, even in it's third iteration, is still not properly functional. resp. implemented.

2. Very few people actually DO understand what they are doing in the material room.

3. Many of those few completely underestimate the level of "I'm just a hobbyist wanting to render pretty things and can't be bothered with those techie-stuff" -ness of the average Poser user.

As I said, the same happened once Firefly was introduced, and it took me pretty much a decade until I came up with a Firefly set-up that was satisfying and easy to handle to me.

But, still good luck to anyone trying to figure this thing out.

Once the Supafly preview looks as nice as my Firefly one does, once the graininess is gone without the help of a photoshop filter, once the render speed is still significantly faster, I'm happy to join "Team Supafly" myself.

But I have a feeling it'll take some more implementations of Poser until this happens.

BTW, isnt' it so that Supafly can't do "actual" (micro) displacement without a gazillion of iterations of subdivisions, anyway?

So what are we talking about here: "Just" bump or real displacement?

And if real displacement, how high is the mesh density necessary to achieve that?

BTW, setting Poser's units to meters is of course the most convenient way to handle distances.

Because then you can actual tell distances directly just by looking at the dial settings:

1 = 1meter, 2 = 2meters, 3= 3meters, etc.

;-)

JoePublic posted at 2:16 PM Wed, 11 October 2023 - #4476124

BTW, setting Poser's units to meters is of course the most convenient way to handle distances.
Because then you can actual tell distances directly just by looking at the dial settings:
1 = 1meter, 2 = 2meters, 3= 3meters, etc.
;-)

:)) LOL I never thought of making changes in this cause sure saw that Poser is using inch system, in our region it is metric and never really had a great understanding for these measurements unless for sanitary installations. But for poser well ... I just turn the dials until getting the result i wish having , it rather depend on the Image contrast how the effect ends up especially for Bump or Displacements, So spin that wheel, render, spin it again, render again, until you get what you want. Changing the Image with another value of contrast or Lightning will change the setup of your dial anyway no matter what measurements you are using

If making in our case the Vain white darker well then you have to make a higher value so I think that it mostly depends on the texture and a Dial weather metric or inchy has no Standard setting for all to get the same results , best is just to play with the dials, colors or in our case math arguments to see what effects can be achieved, naturally depending on the B&W bump map you are using. So if one is using metric in our case he just spins that dial to get the best result after attaching the given setup nodes to the Bump, is just basics, like an old radio to find the right channel <<---- wonder if they also were bothering if it is metric or Inch :))

Holy cow, I'd rather this does not turn into a Superfly bashing, please, especially since that's the rendered I work in exclusively these days. I happen to like it very much.

Thanks for posting the MAT file, JustBeCause, I will check it out probably tomorrow once I got a minute.

Rhia474 posted at 6:32 PM Wed, 11 October 2023 - #4476129

Holy cow, I'd rather this does not turn into a Superfly bashing, please, especially since that's the rendered I work in exclusively these days. I happen to like it very much.

Thanks for posting the MAT file, JustBeCause, I will check it out probably tomorrow once I got a minute.

:) actually contrary, trying to find simple solutions for Superfly to be working , even better if it works for both render engines without fully have to change the setup. Making life easy. Well hope the setup works for you .

I do not use mainly superfly for rendering as most of the stuff collected like Character skins are not setup for it . But the past day's started to build up some simple Pz files that remove and adjust the glossy plastic effects that are caused in superfly with older packages. had them already in use for the veins renders made in here, still have to fix them a little, not because of the adjustment, because some detach some nodes. If I manage to make a good Pz file for this purpose I'll drop it in here making it possible to use these neat old character skins with just a click in superfly.

If you don't have an environment to bounce light around, nothing is going to look good in any render engine.

Nothing that you take a picture of with a camera, in real life, is limited to one or two bounces of light because it is the only thing there.

And if it that was the case, the pictures we take would all look a lot like a P4 render.

The simple solution is to stop thinking that rendering in a vacuum with Poser lights is ever going to look good.

Renders need an environment before you can even start making a shader to work right. And you also need render settings that allow the number of bounces it will actually need to render.

It isn't the material room that is the problem for most people. It is understanding how the engine works, and the lack of an environment.

How can you possibly make a good scene and shader setup, if you don't understand the engine and how to use it in the first place?

This uses a skin shader, with 5 nodes......

Coming up with a shader that works equally in both engines, is not going to happen.... Simply because FireFly and SuperFly engines are entirely different engines that require completely different setups.

In the end, the difference is having a scene to actually render in, understanding the engine in use and the render settings, not using Poser default P6 lights, understanding the render settings, and PostFx in SuperFly in P13. There are no lights at all in the render above.... None.... Just an HDR environment.

The material room is not the problem. The render engines are not the problem, because they obviously work.

More info can be found on how to do this in SuperFly. >>> https://www.posersoftware.com/article/618/behind-the-scene-more-doodles-by-shvrdavid

If your trying to get an effect in a shader. Stop doing it in a vacuum with a flashlight.....

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Rhia474 posted at 6:32 PM Wed, 11 October 2023 - #4476129

Holy cow, I'd rather this does not turn into a Superfly bashing, please, especially since that's the rendered I work in exclusively these days. I happen to like it very much.

Thanks for posting the MAT file, JustBeCause, I will check it out probably tomorrow once I got a minute.

I have also moved to render exclusively with Superfly these days and many of the materials I convert from Firefly have no firefly nodes left when I have finished. Like you I hope this does not turn into any sort of bashing as it is clear the two render engines are very different and produce different results therefore, users will have a favorite dependant on their likes and dislikes and the type of renders they produce. That does not mean one is better than the other, just different. For me Superfly produces renders I like in a time faster than I was used to when I used Firefly and without recourse to any post work. Once a render engine produces acceptable results in reasonable times it is a matter of choice.

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Let's try to stay on topic for the vascularity in this thread. We can start another for tips on using Superfly and for questions from those who are just starting to use it or those who are unsure about going that route until they know more. That way the information for one topic doesn't get lost in the other.

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I could need some help now that some users gotten active that seem having some experience to expand that Vascularity script to use on older skins for a one klick adjustment

I got the three main lines for the script " Example "

KsColor 0 0 0 1 used for Specular

KdColor 0 0 0 1 used for Diffuse

KaColor 0 0 0 1 used for Ambient

This would be a black setup , now what I would need is the code for

Alternate_Diffuse

Alternate_Specular

Is there any similar shortcut or does it have to look like this ?

nodeInput "AlternateDiffuse"

{

name "Alternate_Diffuse"

value 0.945098 0.945098 0.945098 "For white"

nodeInput "AlternateSpecular"

{

name "Alternate_Specular"

value 0 0 0 " For Black

Hope that some have Poser file scripting knowledge in his thread to figure out these shortcuts, it would save me some time making a search.

to get a understanding .... the script needs to be written manually for it to work so for example to change a diffuse color you need such lines, as simple sample but to be able to adapt older skins to superfly more nodes would need to be altered so the codes would be of great help to create the scripts

Diffuse color change sample

figure

{

material 2_SkinHead

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 2_SkinNeck

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 2_SkinTorso

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 2_Nipple

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 2_SkinHip

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 3_SkinArm

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

ETC.........

RedPhantom posted at 4:23 PM Thu, 12 October 2023 - #4476161

Let's try to stay on topic for the vascularity in this thread. We can start another for tips on using Superfly and for questions from those who are just starting to use it or those who are unsure about going that route until they know more. That way the information for one topic doesn't get lost in the other.

Well..... I spent about 2 hours working on a vascularity shader to further explain where I was going with what I said.

But since this thread is not about vascularity and shaders to do so, I will refrain from posting that.

By all means, carry on........

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

@shvrdavid

Well you sure could post your alternate shade setting for vascularity that works for superfly as a Mt5 that sure would be interesting and useful for further improvements, mine is just basic, it works but there might be a better way with even better random possibilities. Some renders of them so to see how the effects should be resulting could also be usefull :)

would also be great if you got some solution for the script ....

To see other settings in a Mt5 could also help the development of a one click adjustment pz file for skins if they vary allot from the basics, older stuff does not have to be perfect by any means, but getting them to work in a simple way sure would be great in superfly. considering that such a setup for veins has a large range like scars, scales, special definitions on skins, all just by simply changing the maps on a simple setup :)

@shrvrdavid, as the originator of this thread, I would very much interested seeing that, even if you could just pm it to me. I intended this thread to be about vascularity and solutions in Superfly thereof.

I'm pretty sure I would like it.

Just so you know where I am coming from:

(BTW, I was an early adopter of Poser 13, basically paying full price to upgrade from Poser 11. Only to find that Renderosity stabbed me in the back by allowing direct upgrades from Poser 11 for half what I paid a few weeks earlier. But that's another story. So I really would have my investment actually pay off-)

So I'd really would like to know whether my next computer should have a decent GPU to support Superfly or I rather get a better CPU for Firefly)

OK, this is what I have now:

The figure is a modified / improved Poser 5 Don, using Michael 2 textures plus a converted Michael 4 vascularity map. The mesh was subdivided once.

Shader is basically Snarlygribbly, but modified by me.

Two infinity lights, one IBL. (No image attached)

Render is of course Firefly.

The preview:

The render: (Actual displacement)

The shader setup:

Render time was 1.20 minutes.

My setup is optimized for performance AND to have a decent looking preview.

And here lies the biggest stumbling block for me. Looking at Shiverdavids render, I simply couldn't work with an "all black" preview. Nope, Nada. Remember the Poser 4 days when the figures were just a bunch of boxes?

Of course a preview is never as good as the final render, but I worked hard to tease as much realism out of OpenGL as I could, and I won't go back behind that standard.

I also need "real" displacement, not just some Bump -map trickery.

(Preferrable without having to subdivide the mesh so many times that Poser starts to scream in pain) ;-)

As long as we don't have true instancing, large outdoor scenes with grass are impossible without actual displacement. (Mesh grass and hair-room grass only work for the foreground)

*

Anyway, back to the skin / vascularity:

I'm seriously asking: What, in it's current stage of development, can Superfly BETTER than Firefly can?

Even if I put the poor preview aside, I look at the "Poser 13" renders thread and at threads like this, and I see nothing.

Not a single Render I see there that makes me go "Wow, I need to install Poser 13 again because this looks so great and I wouldn't be able to replicate this with Firefly."

Sorry.

But I STILL very much would like to see a Superfly skin shader that is as robust (As in: Looks good combined with a large amount of very different light settings) and easy to handle as what I'm currently using.

You don't have to work with an all black preview, and you never had too either. Yes some shader setups don't compute properly in Superfly, in the preview. But the same can be said about that in Firefly with complex shaders too. You can have lights that light up the preview and do nothing in the render as well.

This goes right back to knowing how the engines actually work, and understanding how to do things.

You can also do things in Superfly that you can not in Firefly. One being vector math mods to shaders without a million nodes. The other is control SSS depth, color, and type, on multiple layers of SSS/ (You don't have to use Poser layers to do so either)

The shader above works well, in Firefly, but it is missing a lot..... It does use Firefly's micropoly displacement advantage thou. But is also has many disadvantages compared to Superfly. Veins appear blue for a reason, and that reason has a lot to do with SSS control that is next to impossible to do in Firefly. So where is the blue SSS in the veins on the shader above? Well, there isn't any handling for it at all. It would be a very large shader setup in Firefly to do so. Superfly, no where near as many nodes to get the same result, but it is still a lot. You need more image maps than diffuse and a vascularity map or a ton of procedural stuff to do so, in both engines.. Most content doesn't come with those maps, and they never will at Poser content prices either.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

"Ok guess no one had a solution for the scripts" .... So will figure out the codes by my self taking a little longer to share the setup ! so this is the Pz2 script so far used on a older Illusion design texture set. The first render shows the effect in superfly P13 without changes. applying the Pz2 file to the old texture would result like shown in the second render, so just a klick away. there are some other slight changes that I have to do on the script but so far it makes almost any old texture working with the superfly engine in a matter of seconds ....

Combining the simple vein setup "that no other found a better solution until now" it should be possible to combine the skin script to adapt an older skin adding the vein option right into it. but this has to be figured out if in two parts or a single click option would really needs to be done.

BTW: Sample renders have the exact same Ambient light setup and superfly render setting No Postworking on the renders No changed on the maps or skin.

I personally think that allot of technical discussions are not very helpful on the how and why, at least for most users. This just is making it confusing and users are getting frustrated, the main importance is the given result and sharing it if possible so that the user ends up to be a happy camper with a working file that is fixing the issues. People do not want to bother with all this technical stuff for weeks and month and they do not want to question the why it is not working, they just wanna play with the Dolls :) and get fast working solutions.

For me for instance it would of been important getting the codes to get on with the script or an alternative MT5 setting to see what alternatives there could be, but instead there is again allot of talk of why and how that has nothing to do with the purposes.

ok back to it .... this is the comparison of the effective final after the fix using a simple "filter" to see what is really going on

Original setup im Poser13 Superfly with filter

Fixed skin with one klick Pz2 for P13 Superfly

The results are "gigantic" and sure makes the old Dolls worth getting out of your dust-cases. Both renders been through the same filter to check the effective improvements on the texture setting for superfly.

understanding the filter : It just is using the light contrast balance to see if the render has the correct Information for further Postworks. The original render lost most Information as you can see. the second with the fix applied has all given levels for a perfect skin. Again .... same skin textures same lights same render setup.

Getting to the next step. Old skin fix applied with Vascularity expansion, same settings as above first render simple no filtering used, second render with simple filter for the final results. Got a little distracted and have not jet added additional lines to the script for more complex older skins but at least I got a acceptable result for Vascularity, scales and skin.

Again same setup .... skipping to place without filter, further expansion of the script with optional Vein Intoxication. Ok Now should get my self on getting the script done else I sure will loose track of all the steps :) ( Just turned the light from the right to the left )

"So where is the blue SSS in the veins on the shader above? Well, there isn't any handling for it at all. It would be a very large shader setup in Firefly to do so."

That's actually not a limitation of Firefly, but of my 58year old brain. ;-)

I already had a (blue) color map spliced in, but the blender note was still set to 0.00! DUH!

BTW, I'm not happy with the vascularity map. As I said, it was converted from M4 to M3 then to M2.

If anyone knows a better map made for M2, I'm all ears.

*

"I personally think that allot of technical discussions are not very helpful on the how and why, at least for most users. This just is making it confusing and users are getting frustrated, the main importance is the given result and sharing it if possible so that the user ends up to be a happy camper with a working file that is fixing the issues. People do not want to bother with all this technical stuff for weeks and month and they do not want to question the why it is not working, they just wanna play with the Dolls :) and get fast working solutions."

I again have to agree with you, JustBeCause.

While I (Out of sheer necessity, I must say) learned my way around the material room, at least enough to get results I'm pleased with, I am so NOT interrested in it's inner workings.

Especially not in having to start from new, having to learn a gazillion of new nodes and what they do when I can barely memorize the old ones.

I'd rather spent my time sculpting and rigging or making stuff in Wings3D.

(Also, if I HAVE to learn a new shader from the ground up, wouldn't my time be better spent to just learn Cycles?)

*

But be that as it may, a "ready to use" skin shader for Superfly would still be very welcome.

*******************************************************************************************************

BTW, I don't mind a better render engine at all!

But I think it would have been better to make it an external plug-in.

Or simply work on a Poser/Blender bridge.

@ JoePublic

My preference is actually also Firefly, main reason I spend my time ( right now ) for finding a solution for superfly is that actually the setup works for both, it even improves the renders in Firefly without any big mess of nodes and setups. Starting off in Firefly and see if it also turns out right in Superfly.

Your Vascularity setup sure looks basically correct, just a matter of Vein thickness of the map used for bump or displacements but sure would look perfect for scars, guess it also depends on how much you increase the volume of the model.

Best solution for most sure would be just having small patches letting you use the texture sets in both render engines without having to rebuild huge collections of doll setups that actually would be just impossible seeing all the options such a pack often give.

Actually we are happy campers if the render just ends up to look good not caring about the logic if right or wrong in the material room LOL, there are Millions of ways to make nodes, some have the passion spending there free time attaching nodes all day trying to explain the why ( a Mathematic Passion ) others spend there time making neat renders :) hoping to get a cheer up and some appreciation.

I chose the second option with renders and less time with nodes :)) just gotta find the balanced shortcut for it , one klick for nodes and I'm all happy and hit that render button.

ok getting a little off topic here ......

It would be better to use the blue map to drive changes in the Subsurface.

Personally I don't find it that hard to learn what the nodes do. The hard part is converting what you want to achieve into a node structure that does what you were thinking about in the first place. You sort of have to understand the nodes, what they actually do, what you are trying to do (how light actually works, SSS, etc).

If any of you don't want the technical discussions on how the nodes work, how light works, so you can get it to work. Just do the vascularity in post work and be done with it.

That way you don't have to worry about the nodes, how to use them, learning, etc. Then people can go to the appropriate post work forum to discuss it there.

As is stands now, this is a Poser forum discussing how to do vascularity, in Poser, and winging it to get close enough was probably not the OP's intention.....

If you want it to look right, you have to understand it.... The render engine does exactly what you tell it to do, nothing more, nothing less......

But we were told not to explain these things by a Mod, so I will leave it at that....... But by all means, wing it and tell yourself it looks right......

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

@ shvrdavid: I want to understand the nodes and what they do in Superfly. The skin setup that ghostship2 proposed for Cycles is very simple and has great results and I have been using it with success in Poser 13.

I would very much like learn how to connect vascularity maps to it the way it was proposed by some of you, but I could only get one of those to work. As I mentioned before. An automated/scripted way would be great even if I had to buy it.

I am curious as to what your solution is.

@shvrdavid

Until now, no other member presented a alternate solution, even that it has been requested several times, saying "so I will leave it at that" is not a helpful solution. Like said before, it would be appreciated getting a working alternative ( not just talking around it ) A render, a setup, a Mt5 sampler. You say you spend 2h on a alternate solution but right after that, you say, I will not share, so what's the point ? just reading the link to you placed "behind the scene" episode does not give any clue on a alternative setup for this theme.

This is not a way achieving team work for a good final solution, that all could take a good profit off. so either you are able to give an alternative or you are not able, as simple as that.

@shvrdavid, I did not say not to explain things. I said not to get sidetracked. I said let's keep the thread based on vascularity. Part of that would include explaining how to achieve it.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Yeah, ok.......

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

The op has said that they want to understand the nodes, understand it completely. Even how to use it with Ghostships superfly shaders, not firefly.

That is what I was referring to when talking about an environment and then the link. I was remaining on topic, but started from the foundation part that was not being discussed that makes a HUGE difference.

Again, you have to understand how the engine works, what the nodes expect as far as lighting goes, etc..

But this is no longer the OP's thread, is it...............

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Will be off for a while, Trying to finish up my basic solution for the Pz2 skin file to adapt the older skins so that the Vascularity can be used on them in superfly. No more renders needed from my side so I can concentrate on the script settings. Vascularity I will try making a full setup Pz2 or Mt file with maps in the root folder so you can just change these replacing with same named maps of your own ( Would make life easy interchanging the maps without having to change the script Path's ) Do not expect perfection I'll keep it simple.....

Still if someone got a alternate setup for the Vascularity it would be appreciated, "" a B&W Vascularity map V4 M4 that can be shared would save allot of time :) "" and finally some clue for script codes requested to build up a great Pz file that can be used on old skin packages. Got already most of these codes but still not 100% sure about the Alternate ones .....

So letting you guys the campus to post your settings and alternative proposals :)

Be back as soon as I can post these setups Pz Mt files in here....

Again if one has a free good Vascularity map to share it would be a great timesaver else I'll just try making one my self for the basic script ....

Since I feel a little left alone on this I am setting up a basic Map style for Vascularity that will be shared with the setup. This is just a test to see if the effects with this style of vein contrast would get a good result. You tel me ! I had to set up some brushes in "Twisted brush" trying to get a good working texture. the Pz2 file to adapt older skins for superfly is getting slowly better as for the Vascularity so it seems I'll have to get good basic textures done. To me it seems that the style would already do the trick and the brush is setup in a good balance giving a sharper definition then the old Vascularity maps.

Test maps for the Vascularity superfly-firefly setup

Hope there is still some interests since there is not much participation on this matter, else will just open up a new thread on this matter, like said any help and Ideas are appreciated .....

There are too many visible prominent veins unless you want a science-fiction look. Areas where veins are most noticeable in an average person would be the feet, ankles, back of the hands, wrists, the crook of the arm, behind the knee, the neck, and perhaps the temples. Everywhere else, you will see the faint outlines of the blue vessels. A bodybuilder will exhibit more prominent vessels along the forearms, biceps, chest, abdomen, backs, thighs, and calves. Of course, if you want to make an imperfect individual, you need to consider the creation of spider veins and varicose veins or other types of vascular diseases.

hborre posted at 10:05 PM Fri, 13 October 2023 - #4476225

There are too many visible prominent veins unless you want a science-fiction look. Areas where veins are most noticeable in an average person would be the feet, ankles, back of the hands, wrists, the crook of the arm, behind the knee, the neck, and perhaps the temples. Everywhere else, you will see the faint outlines of the blue vessels. A bodybuilder will exhibit more prominent vessels along the forearms, biceps, chest, abdomen, backs, thighs, and calves. Of course, if you want to make an imperfect individual, you need to consider the creation of spider veins and varicose veins or other types of vascular diseases.

Jup that is true :) for now the texture was just a scrap to test the brushes made, might have to do one with reduced branches and not to much like a bonsai. but actually just need a simple sampler to publish a Pz2 script that can be interchanged by the users still wanna get a good effect :)

this is how the Map brush tester looks like, also will have to make sure not going over the borders with the branches took a while to set up these brushes to generate branches.

As for the strength will be possible to alter the map with blur, contrast and darkness making them fade away. That would be the easy part. Important for now is to have a good Map so that the setup script can be made to share. Btw, if you find some usage for the scrap just go ahead :)

ok now I am stuck with a strange poser issue. when having a script with this lines to add the Vascularity bump without affecting the other textures, actually a setup that always was working it loads the bump file into the Gradient_bump node instead of the Bump node. Actually it should load into the Bump node. Someone might have a solution for this issue !!! Hope dies last ...

this is how the script looks like, all works great , but Poser loads the Bump on the wrong place !

{

version

{

number 13

build 449

}

actor $CURRENT

{

material

{

bumpStrength 0.02

bumpMap ":Runtime:libraries:pose:Vascularity-Limbs.jpg"

0 0

}

somehow Poser is confusing the Gradient_Bump node with the Bump node ... LOL

That confusing Bump node with Gradient_Bump seems to be quiet a issue with global consequences for Pz2 Mt files ! that concerns almost the whole poser line since P7! Wonder what caused this issue .

Any Poser file that has a integrated adjustment to just change the bump, Specular, Ambient, any Spectrum changes even in figures like M4 when it loads out of the box will move the bump to Gradient bump, unless it is not a file that is changing the whole setups of the skin. So most probably if you open M4 because he is having the line in the script

bumpMap ":Runtime:libraries:.........

he's bump maps will load into Gradient_bump. Some other material files that have alternative settings in packages causing the same changing that bump node! Now a good working script to adapt skins for older packages or just adding a Vascularity with bump maps to a loaded skin on your model it is getting difficult as again that darn bump node gets changed to gradient bump globally on your loaded figure.

I do not know if any of you in here have some experience with the Pz2 Mt5 scrips to be any help finding a solution for this issue! I do allot work with manually altering the scripts to be able doing things that Poser just can't do by just hitting a save button, so there might be someone in here that is able to see what I can't see, with all the Knowledge of Map, light, nodes, settings.

probably just a tiny thing that is causing this global Poser material phenomenon!

GOD how I miss RDNA !!!!

For you to understand and making it less complicated, "I might get some help this way" ! here is a Pz2 file sampler made the Standard way, always has been done this way. This Pz2 file will reduce the glow on a skin so that it can be used in superfly. Your model will not shine like it just came out of a oil bath or even be made of silicone! a good start for making these Vascularity Injections. "BUT" now it comes ! this set has nothing to do with bump, but it will change your bump node to Gradient_Bump a real mystery for sure! same thing if I do a file instead of Specular like in this Pz2 sample, but doing it for Bump settings without affecting your loaded maps! " It all gets moved to Gradient_Bump !

Here is a Pz2 file reducing the Specular value on older skins for a basic good usage in superfly P13. you check it your self it works just that the bump has been changed to Gradient_Bump .

Download Pz2 1Klick for Superfly Sampler

Note: it is for V4-M4 older doll skins

Download Pz2 1Klick for Superfly Sampler

Feel like talking to my self in here :(

"Now it would be a good timing to understand nodes in a script !!!"

Trying my luck with the Script editor for the mentioned issues, making life easy to find the settings and nodes in the script ! Was at least able to find a configuration to load the Veins setup into a model without the loss of the loaded skins and without the change of bump settings. but the feature to remove the oil shine for superfly on older sets still changes the Bump to Gradient setting. The issue left for the Vascularity loading on a mapped model is that the node is not attached and needs manually to be done. Attaching the node somehow is causing to generate a secondary PoserSurface in the materials that remains Inactive or interchangeable. But getting closer to a solution!

The 1klick for superfly could be integrated directly into the script for Vascularity using the advantage of the error to drop Bump to Gradient bump for the skin so that the Vein bump load into the Bump keeping the doll skin bump and not being replaced by Vascularity ( A error that could be used as vantage )

with this it sure is possible changing the lines a little faster and in a secure way ..... still the Bump phenomenon remains after several tries

I still hope that someone in here can help out a little since this could be something that all can profit from for many other Superfly solutions and Mat settings. Getting a little the feeling that there are no more creators around for Poser that are experienced enough, even that all this is old school for Poser!

I may ask a question in a less technical way !?

Is it Possible creating a Pz2 or Mt .... file that is just changing the Specular value and color without affecting the rest ? If yes How!

Is it Possible creating a Pz2 or Mt .... file that adds a bump strength or a new map without affecting the rest of the loaded model ? if yes How!

Is it possible creating Pz2, Mt files that just can change a color a value a strength in a loaded skinned model leaving the rest as it is ? If yes How!

I know it can be done as I already had quiet some good results, I am just missing a tiny thing, something I have overseen.

Poser does not support partial materials. And PFE knows nothing of python scripts, you are editing Poser files, not scripts.

To do what you are asking about (applying a partial material change) requires a python script that reads the current shader tree, modifies it, and replaces the entire shader it previously read.

So you either need to write python script to deal with the specific shader setup you are working with, or a very complex script that can work with any material setup used on any character.

Or do it manually, because Poser doesn't support partial materials.....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

That is exactly what I was trying to avoid using a py script ! from these are loads around but as we all know all dead. P11 has expanded script letting you do most anything with the material room in just a few clicks but again for simple users it is a large learning curve. It could of been done in a simple way using ShaderWorks .... AdvancedShaders.pyc loading through a py a sh8 Vascularity shader "my guess" but well this is a dead end for poser 12 up.

I'll continue trying seems I found the right root, some things work others have to be figured out in the script, not the first time that i found way's to trick out Poser with scripts and options that one thought it never would of been possible.

Still working on this Vascularity setup with SF older skin shine fix. Found some new solutions that are getting close to get good results ....

Wonder why People think that a Py is a script and a Poser file not !? so a poser File is a poser file LOL . It is a little disappointing not to see any alternative working samples in here, seems a little that people are giving up on Poser. There sure were times when Poser users were searching for solutions and "Never even thought something would not be possible or not supported " It was simply made to be supported :)

In times when we talked about changing a Poser file manually we were talking about changing the script but times seem to have changed. Ok enough of this ...

I passed some time to see if it would be an alternative to write Vascularity into a SDMAT Pose " sub-dividing MAT pose " at the time it was a method used to make second skins. I could add some lines into the previously posted 1klick for SF Pz2 that is only changing the values in the materials of a loaded model so that things do not get affected to much and the results for older skins in superfly give good results. So for this matter it is Solved , but this is not the thread theme, we want vascularity there I just need to figure out how to load the bump setting on the right place, it is to mention that it works to load a individual map keeping the loaded skins on a figure with a poser file, it is supported ! but well that bump still loads to gradient bump :) . a alternative test I'v done is to load the Bump nodes into the model without having it attached to the Poser surface, this works perfectly not affecting the skin setup of your loaded model, this alternative would mean that you just would need to attach this additional shader tree manually to the bump node.

so well , Poser sure supports Partial materials, no doubt !

In my opinion, the old PoserSurface node is becoming obsolete and can easily be replaced with the root PhysicalSurface node which is friendlier to the Preview window than the Cycles node, especially for Firefly. If set correctly, the channels are more precise and may be less prone to problems. However, there are times when one PhysicalSurface node in a material zone will not behave accordingly syncing with the preview window. The PoserSurface node needs to be present for proper display.

hborre posted at 5:54 PM Mon, 16 October 2023 - #4476365

In my opinion, the old PoserSurface node is becoming obsolete and can easily be replaced with the root PhysicalSurface node which is friendlier to the Preview window than the Cycles node, especially for Firefly. If set correctly, the channels are more precise and may be less prone to problems. However, there are times when one PhysicalSurface node in a material zone will not behave accordingly syncing with the preview window. The PoserSurface node needs to be present for proper display.

Sure is understandable, It would be a solution if there were a good Sortiment of products around, but considering that almost 100% of what poser users have in there library is built on PoserSurface sure is a problem, actually any poser lovers nightmare even thinking to start updating all there favorite setups :) People do not spend the way they were on poser assets like they did a few years back , DS is a huge concurrence with there vast Sortiment. Some few are able to use the new setup , a hand full, but for most , the common Poser user it is not the material room , or how to build a model, they just want a finished working product. clicking on a file and there it is with all the beauty not questioning the why and how . I am sure able to set up something in the material room manually, create a complex articulated figure, build morphs, Injecting files , but that is just for me, I can't share it, for others Poser users it would be hard and frustrating to understand.

This is why I think that the best solution is to figure out a file that does the trick, so that these users just can click and it works. Vascularity is a old product just like all V4 M4 dolls and skins that are still the most commonly used Poser models! Working on solution with just a few clicks making all these older things work in superfly without that the users need to manually rebuild all these would make Poser of more interest. It does not have to be perfect in sense of how all these nodes are built, it just has to render well. The user just wants to klick that SF render button and get a neat result, he does not care about the proper shader tree. If it does not work he wants a button a file that just makes it work.

I see all the Poser forums slowly die, guess why ? except of complex manual solutions you just will not find any simple ones that adapt or fix the stuff to be working with SF. I try going from there trying to make a simple file for simple users so that these get the stuff working without having to puzzle around for day's.

If shvrdavid tells me " you only can do it with a PY " well this is not the solution this just is telling me " Make a py " but if he's solution is the right one why is he not offering it, this would be a alternate solution. Just saying what could work without being able to make it is not the solution ending up with a working product.

I can make these Vascularity I can set em up just like a few of you in here also can " Manually " but can you share these ? so that others just can load them on there favorite skinned dolls ?

This worked for me:

The above was proposed by user oz_tangles and added to the shader for Cycles that ghostship2 published on these forums it works well. It is, however, a manual solution and it would be nice to have a python script written for it.

JustBeCause posted at 7:39 PM Mon, 16 October 2023 - #4476371

If shvrdavid tells me " you only can do it with a PY " well this is not the solution this just is telling me " Make a py " but if he's solution is the right one why is he not offering it, this would be a alternate solution. Just saying what could work without being able to make it is not the solution ending up with a working product.

So let me guess, I am supposed to write the script for you? And just post it here? So someone else can make a working product out of it?

Python is not a programming language I use much, just so you know that. But I do know how to program in it.

This is a thread on Vascularity, not Python.

We were already warned to stay on topic as it is. And all it takes are mods to decide the thread goes, and poof, it's gone forever....

Poser is something I use a lot, know basically inside out, worked with Dev's on, have alpha and beta tested it for years, etc.

Are you perturbed that I know what needs to be done, what you want to do, explained what you actually need to do to do so, but did not offer it to you in completed form?

Doing it the way I mentioned is not just what could work. It is the only way to do it. Other than manually doing it and saving it the your library.

Which both you and Poser know how to do.

A python script to do this to every possible shader setup out there, in two render engines, could take months to write, debug, etc.

I did offer you the solution. Have at it...

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Gotcha. Thanks.

I am done with this thread, didn't mean it to turn into this. Mods, feel free to delete, and sorry.

Rhia474 posted at 8:04 PM Mon, 16 October 2023 - #4476372

This worked for me:

Interesting, Just tried your setup, but again getting a negative and positive effect on the veins .... see the render

Here is a Mt5 file for your setup for others to try. To use it on skins " Load it using the double hook, add to scene button " it will be added on the region you selected, without affecting your other loaded textures, connect the Mix Color to the displacement node of the Poser surface. I added the test map into the Material folder you can use your own by just replacing it with a same named Map into the material folder.

Alternative Vascularity setup DL

Shot of the result of this setup, as you can see some veins go in others come out, so I am not sure if this setup is good enough to be used

1st.

little side note, you mentioned the shader for Cycles that ghostship2 published was used for your displacement style that I used for the last comment, if this shader is causing like seen in the screen shot negative and positive effects that actually are totally wrong then it will happen with any other displacement setting used with this setting, meaning you will always get a wrong result .

2ond.

As for Partial materials or loading, saving some of your settings to be used without having to recreate them manually every time you load a new project, you can create these in poser in a easy way, so do not get irritated by shvrdavid saying "Poser does not support partial materials" to do this simply select the node branch then save it as Mt5.

after you have saved your shader setup simply load it by adding to scene on any new setup , without affecting your doll skin, you get a Partial material loaded this way. only thing you now need to do is to relink your shader tree to the poser surface.

So much for Poser not supporting Partial Materials !!!

Look Vopehov, I never said Poser could not save partial materials, I said it doesn't support them, as in you cant load them hooked up to anything.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

actually you can load any node collection all hooked, whole setups and yes it just will not add a node to the poser surface if using this method. Rather having the feeling that users in here were not aware of this feature in poser as none has "Ever" mention it as alternative. all always say " You must do it all manually " so in case you were not aware of the feature until now, you now know that it exists :)

as for a script in a poser file to just add this missing little feature to hook the setup to the poser surface is just a little thing that I mentioned and was trying to get help on it, it just links it to a wrong place, but it is possible, just like many other things in poser that allot of users think it is not possible because they can't figure em out them selves.

See just like the py issue if i were to make it i would just share it " was even looking into it ", not like some that think if they were sharing there help that another one would use it for he's own benefit witch is a little egoistic thinking. In here things really seem to work very contra productive if it comes to bring up solutions or new features for poser, by any means that sure is not what will make poser better . Unless it has been brought up by that little group that is left in here not letting any new Ideas from other users go through as of a fear of attention loss ! Also a main reason why the Forums slowly are dying.

shvrdavid posted at 1:13 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476400

Look Vopehov, I never said Poser could not save partial materials, I said it doesn't support them, as in you cant load them hooked up to anything.

actually not Vopehow .... JustBeCause my actual account would be

Summon_Conjurer

had to make a secondary account JustBeCause I lost my password and trying to retrieve it after a computer crash, got it somewhere on a txt on my backups :) so this is why I name it JustBeCause ! Really Ironic .

Sure.....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

The height map shown above may benefit from some gaussian blur to soften the edges of the veins. I used a gaussian blur setting of 2 pixels in Photoshop. Maybe you can even go up to 4. This will soften the transition between the normal skin and the raised veins.

Also remember ... bump maps only show accurately for polygons that are directly facing the camera. Displacement would be better, but you have to subdivide the mesh to get decent displacement in SuperFly.

The areas of the arm that are curving toward the back may be exhibiting the inverted appearance because they are not directly facing the camera. That is actually one of the reasons that I suggested adding the blur.

Rhia474 posted at 8:06 PM Mon, 16 October 2023 - #4476373

The above was proposed by user oz_tangles and added to the shader for Cycles that ghostship2 published on these forums it works well. It is, however, a manual solution and it would be nice to have a python script written for it.

Forgive me for not giving screen shots to accompany this, but I currently don't have Poser installed (need a serious break). But since you are using Cycles then I suggest adding a material layer rather than using a script.

Anyway, let's say you're doing the arm.

1) Select the arm material.

2) Add a new material layer.

3) In that new material layer, add a phyisical surface node.

4) Change the Color chip to a blue veiny color.

5) Connect the Vascularity map to the Opacity channel so that the color only appears in the veins.

6) Set the roughness to .5 or higher (you don't want it too shiny). Connect the vascularity map to that input as well.

7) Connect the vascularity map to the bump or displacement and set the value to whatever works well.

I THINK that is all you need to do ... I'm going by memory here.

Anyway, follow that same procedure for the other body parts until you get all the vascularity maps created and looking the way you want.

Then save it to the library. You SHOULD be given the option to save ONLY the material layers to the library, which should then work on any other skin base made for that same character.

NOTE that material layers are SuperFly only. They don't work in FireFly.

The above is presuming that your vascularity map is black and white, with black being no bump/displacement, and white or near white being areas that are raised.

Reminder that, while Poser Superfly can't work with displacements, it definitely works with normal maps, which IMHO would be better for all of this. Though admitedly harder to make.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

DeeceyArt posted at 6:05 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476411

The above is presuming that your vascularity map is black and white, with black being no bump/displacement, and white or near white being areas that are raised.

That is great, you just saved me allot of work Cool ! Duuh I totally forgot about the Material Layers, how bad is that ! Now sure can save and load Partial materials, can go ahead and build up a vascularity that can be shared .... Saved my day !

Like Ohki said Displacements will not work on superfly, alternative Bump or normal maps but that is not a big deal to go ahead with.

so here quick setup shots for the secondary layer the first one with Displacement so a big NADA second and third with Bump from there we can go ahead Layer can be saved and loaded to any pre skinned figure that is just perfect .... just can't get over it to have overseen that, such a little thing ! Thanks DeeceyArt, this I call great participation.

Displacement DOES work in Superfly, just that you have to subdivide the model at LEAST three times, which will totally bog down the system.

Normal maps would be great too, but you'd still need to create an equivalent black and white "mask" to mask out areas where color and roughness should not appear.

AND ... if I remember correctly, material layers SHOULD work in Poser 11 and up, which makes it a better choice than python.

By default when you create a new material layer the PoserSurface node is in there. I prefer the Physical Surface node. Just add it and set it to SuperFly root and the PoserSurface will be ignored.

Consider layers also for makeup (eyeliners, lips, etc), tattoos, sweat, dirt, etc etc etc. Same principle, different little tricks. The advantage is you can use them on the same base character.

OH .. one thing. Layers STACK with each other. So if you want to replace a layer you have to delete it first, and then add the "new" layer you want to replace it with.

Sure is a better choice then PY , I choose Bump for now that seems to do the trick, It gives a all new aspect to it all and most probably will also work to integrate it into a Pz2 file adding scales, Vascularity, Scars to loaded textured models in a all easy way, I just can't get over it passed day's for something that was right in front, thank you soo much for your help.

Sure noted the Stacking LOL was so exited and hit the load a few times :)

I've been following this thread on and off and I can't believe layers didn't dawn on me until today. Slap forehead! OOPS! LOL

JustBeCause posted at 7:47 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476427

Sure is a better choice then PY , I choose Bump for now that seems to do the trick, It gives a all new aspect to it all and most probably will also work to integrate it into a Pz2 file adding scales, Vascularity, Scars to loaded textured models in a all easy way, I just can't get over it passed day's for something that was right in front, thank you soo much for your help.
Sure noted the Stacking LOL was so exited and hit the load a few times :)

No need to do a PZ2 file. When you save the material layers to the library it saves it with (I think) an MLC extension (for material layer collection I think). PZ2's were used for old MAT files. No longer necessary.

Thought the same thing after passing day's figuring out a solution, Knew there was tiny missing puzzle piece. believe me without you I'd still be puzzling around , now I can cool down that brain a little ;)

DeeceyArt posted at 8:00 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476430

JustBeCause posted at 7:47 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476427
Sure is a better choice then PY , I choose Bump for now that seems to do the trick, It gives a all new aspect to it all and most probably will also work to integrate it into a Pz2 file adding scales, Vascularity, Scars to loaded textured models in a all easy way, I just can't get over it passed day's for something that was right in front, thank you soo much for your help.
Sure noted the Stacking LOL was so exited and hit the load a few times :)
No need to do a PZ2 file. When you save the material layers to the library it saves it with (I think) an MLC extension (for material layer collection I think). PZ2's were used for old MAT files. No longer necessary.

Guess I'm a little the old timer with these Pz2 files LOL ( wants everything in Pz2 ) but sure if the Material file does the whole trick it will save allot of further work and drooping some old habits, actually I'm more into rigging then Materials, but this Vascularity theme just pulled me right in. Veins are a good thing for the Creatures I make so sure worth spending time on it !

To save material layers:

1) Navigate to or create the material library folder to store your materials

2) Click the + button in the bottom of the library window to create a new material set

3) Set a name for the material layer (Like V4 Vascularity Layer or some such)

4) Click the Material Layers radio button

5) Click the Select Layers button. A dialog opens and lists all the layers in each of the materials you created. You can Select All, Select None, or check only the ones you want to include. Then click OK.

The material layer preset will be saved into the location you choose, using an MLC extension

Thanks Deecey, will give your suggestions a try as soon as work, family and BG3 lets me... :)

Just keep in mind that material layers saved in Poser can not replace one that was previously applied. You need a script to work with that as well.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

DeeceyArt

Had a shot making a Pz2 file for the layer setup Quick converting using the "Netherworks Material Tools" , just as you said the Pz2 file is rather for older setups :) It keeps the information building up the layers even multiple setup for whole body but having the side effect moving the nodes on the poser surface like changing the Bump to Gradient bump and the next mystery, moving nodes that are in Alternate_ Specular - Diffuse to the Bump node. Randomly surprise moving the nodes :)

Might be because the Material Tools automatically are adding the Poser surface lines into the Pz2 script that seem to be the main cause moving nodes around .... Well concentrate now on these Mat files, at least get something nice done for these vascularity. For Firefly will have to check another setup, Layers do not seem to be working In Firefly at all .... Was to be expected.

For the forums users in here now that they know that Partial Shader trees can be built into a material file it will be easy to share the setups as a Material file instead of having them to screenshot the setups and explain how they can be built manually :) , Most of the time these do not fit in the screenshots and you go through a labyrinth of nodes trying to figure them out.

shvrdavid posted at 11:56 AM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476474

Just keep in mind that material layers saved in Poser can not replace one that was previously applied. You need a script to work with that as well.

Actually not necessary, It was never the intention to overwrite a existing structure, the Intention was keeping that structure adding a partial setup to it, in our case adding veins to the existing skin. If there is a existent layer in the model you have loaded it is having a purpose, the new one will just be added as additional effect not affecting or overwriting. So why should there now be a script that is doing exactly what had to be prevented ?

🤯 mind blown!

===========================================================

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JustBeCause posted at 2:36 PM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476477

shvrdavid posted at 11:56 AM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476474
Just keep in mind that material layers saved in Poser can not replace one that was previously applied. You need a script to work with that as well.
Actually not necessary, It was never the intention to overwrite a existing structure, the Intention was keeping that structure adding a partial setup to it, in our case adding veins to the existing skin. If there is a existent layer in the model you have loaded it is having a purpose, the new one will just be added as additional effect not affecting or overwriting. So why should there now be a script that is doing exactly what had to be prevented ?

To explain what Scott was getting at ...

Let's say you create several different material layers to change the color of the lips. You apply a red lip color layer and the lips turn red. Later you decide you want pink lips.

If you add the pink lips from the library, it will NOT replace the red lips, it will "stack" them, which might not produce the results you like. Instead, select the red lip layer, use the layer controls to delete it, and then apply the pink lip layer.

There is one more thing I need to investigate though, so stay tuned.

OK. Let's take V4 for example. The arm textures cover several different material groups. But just for grins let's say you add the vascularity to just Skin Arm and Skin Forearm.

The problem with deleting is, you have to select one material group at a time and delete the layer you want to remove before you change it to something else. In that case, a script wouldn't exactly be NECESSARY, as you can do it with a bunch of clicks. But a script might make things faster.

Of course, the other alternative to remove all those vascularity layers is to reapply the base material that you started with. That would remove ALL of the layers that have been applied to the character.

Has anyone considered how to modulate the intensity of the veins?

Intensity of the veins. I'm thinking either adjust the bump value, or maybe even adjust the texture map(s), maybe mixing with one of the color adjustment nodes. Thing is, you'd want to make sure that black areas remain black (for the masks). Grayer values would raise the veins less, brighter values would increase. However, once you reach pure white I think you'd have to go with adjusting the bump/displacement value.

Okay, so this is a super stupid question, guys.

Once you save out the material layer, how do you ADD it to a material? When I tried it tonight it either did nothing or crashed my Poser.

DeeceyArt posted at 5:43 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476409

Forgive me for not giving screen shots to accompany this, but I currently don't have Poser installed (need a serious break). But since you are using Cycles then I suggest adding a material layer rather than using a script.
Anyway, let's say you're doing the arm.
1) Select the arm material.
2) Add a new material layer.
3) In that new material layer, add a phyisical surface node.
4) Change the Color chip to a blue veiny color.
5) Connect the Vascularity map to the Opacity channel so that the color only appears in the veins.
6) Set the roughness to .5 or higher (you don't want it too shiny). Connect the vascularity map to that input as well.
7) Connect the vascularity map to the bump or displacement and set the value to whatever works well.
I THINK that is all you need to do ... I'm going by memory here.
Anyway, follow that same procedure for the other body parts until you get all the vascularity maps created and looking the way you want.
Then save it to the library. You SHOULD be given the option to save ONLY the material layers to the library, which should then work on any other skin base made for that same character.
NOTE that material layers are SuperFly only. They don't work in FireFly.

Erm also if I follow your description with the blue chip, the entire body is blue. What am I doing wrong here?

I really feel like a complete idiot. From all that you guys listed, the only thing that actually, physically worked and looked good as the first one I copied in a response above.

DeeceyArt posted at 3:46 PM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476480

JustBeCause posted at 2:36 PM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476477
shvrdavid posted at 11:56 AM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476474
Just keep in mind that material layers saved in Poser can not replace one that was previously applied. You need a script to work with that as well.
Actually not necessary, It was never the intention to overwrite a existing structure, the Intention was keeping that structure adding a partial setup to it, in our case adding veins to the existing skin. If there is a existent layer in the model you have loaded it is having a purpose, the new one will just be added as additional effect not affecting or overwriting. So why should there now be a script that is doing exactly what had to be prevented ?
To explain what Scott was getting at ...
Let's say you create several different material layers to change the color of the lips. You apply a red lip color layer and the lips turn red. Later you decide you want pink lips.
If you add the pink lips from the library, it will NOT replace the red lips, it will "stack" them, which might not produce the results you like. Instead, select the red lip layer, use the layer controls to delete it, and then apply the pink lip layer.
There is one more thing I need to investigate though, so stay tuned.

Ohh got that point, i fact this sure would be an issue if that method would be used for a creator that wants to release a package with makeups or special effects using the layers. It is a side effect like also seen on Morphs, there it sure would come in hands having a reset file like Inj and rem . Well I am still looking into the options in the scripts so there sure should be a way to invert the Injection, if you can add then there should also be a way to remove these :)

The mcl file is a good start having a closer look at the script. The layer can be also saved as Mt5 but again the resulting like before it will sure load into the new built layer but mess up the Base Layer like it has been doing before interchanging the nodes to the poser surface, unless you load that MT5 Layer file using the Add to Scene feature then the Base Layer remains stable. Back to the Roots, there must be a line in the txt that can be used to prevent that issue that the Main Layer gets affected. Once this is solved it would be possible making a sort of INJ REM file for partial materials or layers.

@ Rhia474

This is the setup DeeceyArt Explained in a mcl material Poser file you can just add your textures into the layer that has been added. Screenshots are in the Post above that I made with Images of the setup :)

the setup will load into the forearm there selecting the Layer you will find Layer_1 you need to build up the setup into a new layer and not into the base layer

MLC Download Forearm V4

I think I just found the line that is causing the nodes to move in the base layer removing this one in the Poser file script stops causing the issues at least when using the partial materias by loading with the add to scene feature

node NO_NODE

getting closer :)

ok will stop bothering you further with all this tech stuff that is making things confusing and try to figure out a final solution, If there is one !

Quick correction of my last comment. If making a Mt5 file that should work like the MCL file using the Add to Scene feature the line in the txt

shaderTree

{

node "poser" "PoserSurface"

{

name "PoserSurface"

simply needs to be changed to

shaderTree

{

node NO_MAP

{

name "PoserSurface"

this will make sure not to affect the Base Poser Layer and you get the option to load the new layer to any selected bodypart. removing eventual other issues change the first lines

actor $CURRENT

{

material 3_SkinForearm

to

actor $CURRENT

{

material

now this starts to solve allot of issues and the layer can be added to the bodypart of your choice, now a solution to remove the layers. Starting to get good results here :)

DeeceyArt posted at 4:59 PM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476483

Intensity of the veins. I'm thinking either adjust the bump value, or maybe even adjust the texture map(s), maybe mixing with one of the color adjustment nodes. Thing is, you'd want to make sure that black areas remain black (for the masks). Grayer values would raise the veins less, brighter values would increase. However, once you reach pure white I think you'd have to go with adjusting the bump/displacement value.

This is the setup I created for managing the vein intensity. I utilize the HSV node to modulate the intensity of the map. Saturation is set to zero and the Value channel mediates the map intensity. The Invert node connecting the map to the roughness reduces the shininess of the overall texture when rendered. An effect that I noticed after creating the Material Room shaders.

After fiddling with the settings, this is the image I rendered.

Yeah that looks great hborre! Good job!

Rhia474 posted at 5:44 PM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476487

DeeceyArt posted at 5:43 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476409

Forgive me for not giving screen shots to accompany this, but I currently don't have Poser installed (need a serious break). But since you are using Cycles then I suggest adding a material layer rather than using a script.
Anyway, let's say you're doing the arm.
1) Select the arm material.
2) Add a new material layer.
3) In that new material layer, add a phyisical surface node.
4) Change the Color chip to a blue veiny color.
5) Connect the Vascularity map to the Opacity channel so that the color only appears in the veins.
6) Set the roughness to .5 or higher (you don't want it too shiny). Connect the vascularity map to that input as well.
7) Connect the vascularity map to the bump or displacement and set the value to whatever works well.
I THINK that is all you need to do ... I'm going by memory here.
Anyway, follow that same procedure for the other body parts until you get all the vascularity maps created and looking the way you want.
Then save it to the library. You SHOULD be given the option to save ONLY the material layers to the library, which should then work on any other skin base made for that same character.
NOTE that material layers are SuperFly only. They don't work in FireFly.
Erm also if I follow your description with the blue chip, the entire body is blue. What am I doing wrong here?

I really feel like a complete idiot. From all that you guys listed, the only thing that actually, physically worked and looked good as the first one I copied in a response above

@ Rhia: if you encounter the blue body effect, you need to enter the Material Room and click on each body zone. That refreshes the textures and they will displace correctly. I also experienced that anomaly.

Rhia474 posted at 5:44 PM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476487

DeeceyArt posted at 5:43 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476409

From time to time, especially with old scene, I've even seen my character completely disappear , a jump back and forth in the Mat room corrected this as well

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hborre posted at 7:10 PM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476492

DeeceyArt posted at 4:59 PM Wed, 18 October 2023 - #4476483
Intensity of the veins. I'm thinking either adjust the bump value, or maybe even adjust the texture map(s), maybe mixing with one of the color adjustment nodes. Thing is, you'd want to make sure that black areas remain black (for the masks). Grayer values would raise the veins less, brighter values would increase. However, once you reach pure white I think you'd have to go with adjusting the bump/displacement value.
This is the setup I created for managing the vein intensity. I utilize the HSV node to modulate the intensity of the map. Saturation is set to zero and the Value channel mediates the map intensity. The Invert node connecting the map to the roughness reduces the shininess of the overall texture when rendered. An effect that I noticed after creating the Material Room shaders.
After fiddling with the settings, this is the image I rendered.

yes this looks very promising

Ok found a way adding Vascularity with a pz2 or a Mc6 file in new layers to the dolls, this system has to be applied before using your dolls textures and will stay on them even if you decide loading an other texture the Vascularity Layer will remain stable. I will now try building the 3 styles for V4 and if you have the original Vascularity for V4 M4 it will be ready to go using it in P13 with a Pz2 Injection :) So hope I get these 3 styles right now.

This is a Prototype to add Vascularity to V4 the Pz2 file will have to be applied first, before you load your skin setup. Once loaded all the Vascularity layers will remain, even if you load another skin texture to the V4 changing the previous one you have loaded. there are 3 Layer settings based on the settings proposed in here so thanks to DeeceyArt it was possible figuring out this type of setup as for the tip for the layers, Material settings are based on the Mat setups of DeeceyArt, hborre and me

Removing the Vascularity layer, well this is not possible atm. if you want to load another Vascularity Layer then you have to reload V4. The Pz2 will automatically remove all skins of the loaded figure, it will be all white until you load your Pz2 texture setup for the doll skin style! As I mainly bothered figuring out how to gell the Vascularity onto the doll I did not take the time to finetune the nodes for strength or for coloring this is up to you changing these in the material regions selecting the Individual Vascularity layers .

In order to work correctly you must be in Possession of the original Old Vascularity pack but as far I have seen most of you got it as you are using the Texture maps, that are Needed and not included.

so again .... First you load the Vascularity prototype to your Loaded V4 and then you can use your V4 Pz2 skin setups on her rendering in Superfly will make the veins visible.

there is also the basic Old Mat Remove Glow Pz2 in the folder that can be used to remove the oily effect when rendering in superfly. just a basic little helper to be able using your older V4 skins in a fast way without having to rearange every material manually "Not Perfect But Does The Trick".

Vascularity Loader Sample for P13 Download

You can delete layers from the ui in the material room in P13, I would have to look if it is the same in older versions thou.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

you can remove the Layers manually, but for the setup created on all materials of V4 sure the faster way to reload a new V4. The Layer Pz2 file is set to remove all other textures making a clean blank V4 to start up with. If you load it two times on the same model , well you will get a duplicate layer making a stronger effect on the Vascularity :) or mess it up ... trying to load two different ones might even bring out some surprising results ; did not try it my self .....

JustBeCause posted at 2:47 PM Thu, 19 October 2023 - #4476525

This is a Prototype to add Vascularity to V4 the Pz2 file will have to be applied first, before you load your skin setup. Once loaded all the Vascularity layers will remain, even if you load another skin texture to the V4 changing the previous one you have loaded. there are 3 Layer settings based on the settings proposed in here so thanks to DeeceyArt it was possible figuring out this type of setup as for the tip for the layers, Material settings are based on the Mat setups of DeeceyArt, hborre and me
Removing the Vascularity layer, well this is not possible atm. if you want to load another Vascularity Layer then you have to reload V4. The Pz2 will automatically remove all skins of the loaded figure, it will be all white until you load your Pz2 texture setup for the doll skin style! As I mainly bothered figuring out how to gell the Vascularity onto the doll I did not take the time to finetune the nodes for strength or for coloring this is up to you changing these in the material regions selecting the Individual Vascularity layers .
In order to work correctly you must be in Possession of the original Old Vascularity pack but as far I have seen most of you got it as you are using the Texture maps, that are Needed and not included.
so again .... First you load the Vascularity prototype to your Loaded V4 and then you can use your V4 Pz2 skin setups on her rendering in Superfly will make the veins visible.
there is also the basic Old Mat Remove Glow Pz2 in the folder that can be used to remove the oily effect when rendering in superfly. just a basic little helper to be able using your older V4 skins in a fast way without having to rearange every material manually "Not Perfect But Does The Trick".
Vascularity Loader Sample for P13 Download

Now that it got figured out how to make such setups in a Pz2 that loads full fix layers setups for Vascularity or other complex setups without a python, it might be worth making a final set, for me not today, but may be another day, it is allot of work making good Maps. It was really interesting figuring out the "impossible" I love challenges and thanking the few who were helping out figuring it out even if not aware of it :) If you read it all carefully you might now also know how such a file is done, that sure could be a timesaver for many other things. Even if the Interest seem to be rather small, "Oh well it still was worth the time spent".

Made material settings for the veins this way it is possible to share a full Vascularity setup for P13 " Ok the Basics " I did not use Substance painter or Blender to paint in 3D, Old fashion way in PS , was a little faster :) I made 12 setups or the 3 presented versions all with different strength and textures. To get good results you have to change the vein color to fit the skin shade you loaded on the V4 Doll " Just play a little around with the given Layers " . The Package contains the Texture maps so no need of the original Vascularity textures in order to work, this will also give the opportunity to use for those who do not have it . Might be something useful or just a Dust Catcher who knows. It is just a starter, so some of you might get to figure out a better way, or find time to share some Material maps made for the veins, expanding this feature a little . "Creativity has no limits"

Download VascularityP13V4

Guess I am done with it for good with veins .... Hope that the op will find some good use with this setup .... and others to.

This Place seems to be so lonely " Ghost Town "

I wouldn't be so quick to abandon this thread yet. I tried your PZ2 and have come across some problems with it's implementation. With the 2nd layer vascular map loaded on the figure, you cannot apply a Mat Collection without losing the vascular map. It remains if you apply the skin textures from a MATPose, so this implies that you cannot load textures using both MC6 and PZ2. Also, the glossy skin remains a problem when loading the no-glow MATPose and it still attaches the Bump Node to the Gradient_Bump. The glossy skin is not influenced by the base layer, it needs to be controlled by the second layer. If you examine my Material Room screencap, I included an Invert Node to control the roughness and an HSV node to control the veinous intensity. With the HSV node in place, there is no need to offer several maps of different intensities.

By using an HSV node and animating the Value channel for all the vascular zones, I can control all the vascular intensities from the Parameters tab.

At this point y'all are speaking Gothic to me, lol. Glad this gave you some fun.

It actually gave me better comprehension when working with the second layer in general. In setting up a one-second layer master vascular collection or any type of recoloring like lips, eyes, nails, etc., you can use them across different skin textures and characters. It is very convenient if you want to save disk space.

Jup not perfect jet, to add a skin after the veins it requires to use a Mat-Pose , I actually did not even think of using a Material as the older V4 setups are in most cases Mat Pose it is rather new that this has changed, guess it is because all the older Py that were generating these Mat Poses are not working any longer in Poser 13 and there are no alternatives creating these any longer, like many other things that were in need of these Little py helpers.

Your Animation control panel looks very interesting Woow ! I never used animation features on the materials, a entirely new learning curve for sure :) If it works like you say that for sure a breakthrough of no use for all these alternative mat Poses. Except of coloring but strength would sure already be a great option. Now got to look into these Animation options ant figure out how that works ......

just guessing .... can this mat animation also be saved into the mat file ?! this would change the whole aspect and be generated as Mat-Pose with interactive materials :)

things do not have to be perfect but lead you on the right track ... )

Nevermind, just figured it out ! need to activate the little key next to the material setting to activate animations, the individual dials will show up in the main body of the loaded figure. Boa can even change colors with these dials! In theory it should be possible making a Mat-Pose with integrated dials changing the Vein colors like White to , Green, Blue, red ect. some dials changing the glow oily effects on older skins.

I tested to create a master dial turning the actual brown red color of the veins slowly from 0-1.0 to white and it works creating a morph injection for this would be the easy part. such a feature could be used globally for finetuning of materials in a loaded model Like Puppetmaster for Materials.

Basically have to check if there is the need in the script to activate the Animations or if it is possible like a custom morph creating these through a custom master dial. Like the one I just created that is changing the Vein coloring. getting to load the new crated dial into the Pz2 vascularity is sure a Brain Challenge, would sure be a great brake through for Poser Pose Injections :)) Not morphs but global material manipulation right on the main body of the loaded figure.

So this is what the "Interactive Master Mat morph dial" does the way I have set it up on the veins. Incredible how many possibilities just got open up with this feature!!!!

Well so now figure out how to make a Mat-Pose with Interactive features for this, it sure will have to be a PZ2 file no way around Mt files will not be able to carry this type of Information!

Time to get the Binary Morph app out of the drawer, has bee a while since last used :) or the old Poser Tools, see what will be the best solution creating such Pose Inj files. Wardrobe Wizard will probably also come in handy for this purpose at least for merging these morphs to a custom version .....

I think you are only confusing yourself by trying to shoehorn current library file formats and standards into poses created with legacy content creation utilities.

First of all, material files are NOT "MAT Poses." They are library-specific files that store material setting information.

The other part of your problem is that you are using OLDER TOOLS to create binary morphs and injection/remove files. Bear in mind that some of these tools were created years ago, and as good as they were back then (and yes, I am indeed a Dimension 3D fan), they are not aware of newer file formats and parameters. In the case of Dimension 3D tools, I'm certain that they do a syntax check before saving the files, which explains why some settings are changed during saving.

In addition, the Pose category has become a catch all for all sorts of different files, and it's gotten so unruly to keep track of what is what. There are character poses (which the library category was originally created for). Then you have morph injection and remove poses. And then there are material poses. Looking at my V4 runtime, the Pose category goes on forever, and because of the naming it's like hunting for needles in a haystack to figure out which type of pose it is.

Old habits die hard. I know. But you might be making things more difficult for yourself, and for users, by trying to do things "the old way."

Poser 13 has a FIle > Export > Morph injection command.

DeeceyArt posted at 10:24 AM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476585

Poser 13 has a FIle > Export > Morph injection command.

this is good to know :) well I like the Pz2 files as allot can be done manually in these that affect the behavior. It sure can be a big mess but since it does not matter where you save your files , actually you can save all the Pz Mt Cr files into the Character root of poser , by changing the path in a mat file or geometry just remove the path leaving the file name all can be dropped into the same folder, ok with Geometry and Textures not the best Idea in case of shared packs. but for the package it self best thing is to drop it into one cathegory folder . For instance you get a outfit with mat Packages just place the mat morph packs into the same path where the outfit is . Poser will load them and you got it all together at one place not having a big mess or hundred of runtimes :) not having to find the textures for the outfit in Materials or Poser all at one Place . Drag and drop stuff you want to load into the window also is a time saver no matter from what runtime it is . so for instance you have the Fortune teller outfit with all released texture and morph packages just build up a folder structure with all the files in one place and drop it into your Character Path , there you are got it all together when opening it up in the poser library ready to load :)

No more worries to find a texture pack for the outfit made by another creator as there all in the same folder structure with the outfit.

I have one runtime 6TB with over 10'000'000 files and believe me I find my way through this way, no more duplicates all sorted out like a Library.

Making a duplicate or tripple or even grater folder structure in the poser runtime just because the extensions are different does not make sense if you can load any file extension in the Character Library, even see the Thumbnails if it is a Pz Mt PP extension, got a outfit with Props well got em all with the outfit at the same place. Saving files is a different thing in Poser but after saving just move these to the appropriate place so you are sure to find em again.

So what you are suggesting is that people reorganize 20+ years worth of content purchases to do things your way.

I'm out of this one folks. Hard to make suggestions to someone that doesn't listen.

Yup, this is not helping me. Have fun.

JustBeCause posted at 11:31 AM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476590

Making a duplicate or tripple or even grater folder structure in the poser runtime just because the extensions are different does not make sense if you can load any file extension in the Character Library, even see the Thumbnails if it is a Pz Mt PP extension, got a outfit with Props well got em all with the outfit at the same place. Saving files is a different thing in Poser but after saving just move these to the appropriate place so you are sure to find em again.

That's what the Favorite Tab in the Library is for.

Rhia474 posted at 12:40 PM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476598

Yup, this is not helping me. Have fun.

I'm sorry. This thread has become more troubleshooting than answering your problem. Where in particular are you having problems getting this to work?

Guess this is to complex having options in here that are already packed in files to run, I might of thought this would be a good way sharing setups but it seems that the manual way is preferable, so it be if this is Poser 13 that is not supporting decades of development then let the old behind and start from scratch. For me I actually have not seen much changes unless the material room.

Still thank you hborre for the hint about the material animations this will be a great help developing future options in my Poser creations and also thank you DeeceyArt for the layer tip this helped to solve allot of things for the Vascularity and others to come, probably would of not been done making these Veins sample posted.

I see that there is not much interest in such a sample package in here so will drop it elsewhere, some other people might find a good use for them who knows, but this is really the wrong place to drop sample files or working packages. so will respect your way and just , if give the manual options :)

DeeceyArt posted at 10:24 AM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476585

Poser 13 has a FIle > Export > Morph injection command.

Yes an option since P11 generating a Pmd Injection with all info even the tree settings for morphs or custom created versions, a great option :) I use this feature quiet often. After reading the Material animation option I thought there would be more possibilities of a material file and merging the Mat with the Morph injection for a new master dial into one file, in a sense that it loads the materials for Vascularity and the Master dials that can be used changing color and strength all in one file. There we are at the point where poser is not capable saving such a file. Unless you have a alternative suggestion for such a file.

it is like the Mat Pz2 set I made as sample, yes it is the old way with the layer styles, they work in P13 and again for it to be working you need Pz2 mat files to add the skins, material files will kill this option.

I listen , read very carefully to understand suggestions, but these are not alternatives to what i am looking for, not the real solution adding Veins to a figure in combination with alternative skins, I mean interchangeable.

So what exactly would be the Alternative if not the old way ? Except making it manually for each body Part of the figure and every time from scratch for a new skin.

JustBeCause posted at 3:44 PM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476609

So what exactly would be the Alternative if not the old way ? Except making it manually for each body Part of the figure and every time from scratch for a new skin.

That would be called a python script. Ironic, I know.....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

shvrdavid posted at 7:17 PM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476617

JustBeCause posted at 3:44 PM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476609
So what exactly would be the Alternative if not the old way ? Except making it manually for each body Part of the figure and every time from scratch for a new skin.
That would be called a python script. Ironic, I know.....

Sadly the py is also the old-fashioned way! There are already scripts, alternative material rooms where you can select multiple body parts making changes to them all at once, do not have to tell you that these are dead. creating new ones will just work for one version of poser. so make one for p13 will only work for P13 not for P12 not for P11. Irony is that no one in here is capable of doing it ! Just saying a Py, does not solve it same as saying , " Write a new feature into Poser " Solving the problem is to show a working alternative. The way I try was actually a new way as it has not been done before, using the old tradition to get a result. It would of been something new, a new solution! It is mostly working, you could load these veins, Interchanging with skins ! Last night I have written a Pose INJ that is removing the glow into a Interactive master dial that can be injected into V4 without the need of a Pmd thanks to hborre, so like said this old way as you say is doing all new things that sure do work in P13, in P12, in P11.

I think you are making it your self very difficult not me, as if someone gets in here offering a working solution you will do anything rejecting these new Ideas, so asking you, who is stuck on the old way's.

You might not of noticed that all this was a move trying to help out a little ......

I am glad you think I do things the old fashion way. And I do help out. So much so that my name is on the splash screen....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

I was Curious to see in this thread how many are really watching in silence, so I placed the "VascularityP13V4" on my Cloud where I can see the amount of downloads, there were 38 downloads in less then 12h, it shows that there is silent interest. Have you ever asked your self why the Poser forum is ruled with silence? Older members that stopped contributing, members who stopped talking and sharing there ideas. Have you noted that your group is shrinking and can be counted on one hand ! where did all the people go ? A very interesting way of slowly destroying a Poser forum, I sure must say.

So what is a splash screen worth when members start getting out of the way ? A splash screen does not mean that you are loved, the splash screen is not a replacement for contribution, or have you really contributed in this thread ? Have you noted that not even the OP of this little group found any good words for the time spend finding a solution.

So I may ask you, you that are famous on a splash screen, Is this the right way treating members of this forums who try to do a little contribution ? Believe me, if you are not aware, many have given up talking in these forums past few years.

Do NOT use me as a justification for your need to argue please.

Where did all the people go? Maybe if this forum stayed on topic instead of drifting off into Python and Poser arcana and it might have more followers. I'm opting out.

I am still here, reading and posting little emoji comments and occasional text. Can't try anything because at the moment I am in rehab. Can't see the logic of the argument but the usefulness of the various techniques. Sitting in my hospital gown, examining the networks of veins in my thighs and arms gave me an idea for applications of the techniques for darker skin colored actors. Has anyone thought about this?

===========================================================

OS: Windows 11 64-bit
Poser: Poser 11.3 ...... Units: inches or meters depends on mood
Bryce: Bryce Pro 7.1.074
Image Editing: Corel Paintshop Pro
Renderer: Superfly, Firefly

9/11/2001: Never forget...

Smiles are contagious... Pass it on!

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday

That gave me an idea i may try tonight or later in the week after work. Thank you for bringing up the importance of these solutions would need to work for different skin tones/ melanin content!

ThunderStone posted at 8:18 AM Mon, 23 October 2023 - #4476678

I am still here, reading and posting little emoji comments and occasional text. Can't try anything because at the moment I am in rehab. I can't see the logic of the argument but the usefulness of the various techniques. Sitting in my hospital gown, examining the networks of veins in my thighs and arms gave me an idea for applications of the techniques for darker skin-colored actors. Has anyone thought about this?

It crossed my mind but I haven't pursued it yet. ATM, I offered a solution to vary the amount of vascular prominence across the different body zones in figures like V4. Vascular map accuracy will appear more realistic on the skin texture. The problem arises when you want to duplicate such effects on models with fewer zones then the technique does not work well.

hborre, I just tried your setup. The veins don't show at all when rendered. This is the setup based on what you posed above for the Vascularity layer.

hborre posted at 1:06 PM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476603

Rhia474 posted at 12:40 PM Sat, 21 October 2023 - #4476598
Yup, this is not helping me. Have fun.
I'm sorry. This thread has become more troubleshooting than answering your problem. Where in particular are you having problems getting this to work?

Well, not to put too fine a point to it, but everything. You guys lack a clear, concise way of explaining to an end user how to apply these materials easily. I understand this may only be possible with a script, which is fine. I am not asking for anyone to just give it to me; I am totally happy if someone gets inspired, writes a script to apply across matzones and then sells it.

But I don't understand how come that I can't reproduce basically anything you guys are talking about except the one simple one for Cycles oz_tangles posted several pages ago. I like to think I am reasonably intelligent, I have been using Poser for literal decades now, I like Superfly and...still. when I go through this thread, I feel like an idiot and I get frustrated.

Deecey was kind enough to PM me a few times and I am reading up on layers, but the fact remains that apart from the layers that are in an old D3D Superfly material collection, I never ever got layers to work in Superfly. I had such high hopes for it, you guys keep telling us end users how great they are and...well...I can't get them to work and every time I try to read anything connected to it, my eyes get crossed and I get lost in the technical jargon.

This is super aggravating.

Rhia474 posted at 6:15 PM Mon, 23 October 2023 - #4476712

hborre, I just tried your setup. The veins don't show at all when rendered. This is the setup based on what you posed above for the Vascularity layer.

Apply a value to the Bump channel. Try a value like 0.08.

That is way too strong. I will play with the values, see how I can tone it down.

Really not sure what I am doing wrong. Veins strength with your setup on arms is WAY too strong, barely anything is showing on the torso. Exact same layer setup on both materials, the only difference is of course that I am using Torso vasc map on torso and Limb on arm.

Torso layer:

Arm vasc layer (note that i already adjusted the bump strength after the first render and it is still ridiculously strong). Just want to understand how come for me she looks like she is taking Crocodile, lol.

What is the current default measurement in your poser settings?

===========================================================

OS: Windows 11 64-bit
Poser: Poser 11.3 ...... Units: inches or meters depends on mood
Bryce: Bryce Pro 7.1.074
Image Editing: Corel Paintshop Pro
Renderer: Superfly, Firefly

9/11/2001: Never forget...

Smiles are contagious... Pass it on!

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday

Decrease the HSV Value to 0.1 and see if that makes a difference. It should be because the Value channel controls the intensity of your map; the lower the value, the less prominent the veins will appear.

BTW, I am using feet as my unit of measure in Poser.

Isn't the strength of the bump effect not depending on the orientation of the light on the skin? as it's more visible on one arm, compared to the other and to the torso?

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
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👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

I will try making it simple, since new methods are making things to complicated.

Starting with the texture map! The old one used will probably not be giving good results. Make a new one, thinner fading lines. PS or other app set your brush to fade, set the distance, that you slowly decrease. Use white color on a layer above a skin texture as reference. Paint the Veins when finished set a new black layer behind the painted veins and save it. It is essential having a good texture !

I had made a simple sample but it probably was not what you were looking for. so make it your self this way it will be set up for your taste :) when picking a color for the Veins, a dark skin for instance set a basic dark color, set up the lights you will use for the Artwork and make a test render, from the render take a color from the skin for the vein, this will give you a good contrast. Repeat for every map region.

If the method of hborre is the choice of the 3 given in here set it up the way told for a basic start it is just fine.

This sample is using a little stronger Bump strength so you can see the result a little better for the tint of the Veins.

Now that you made better texture maps rather then using the Old Vascularity maps you are set to go. I am not going again into the matter of making Pz material setups for it or Interactive master dials for changing the strength and color of the veins so do these manually for every desiderated body region.

The essential thing is having a good texture map. Lights will affect the way veins show so set up the lights before adapting the Bump and Color of the veins.

Reducing the Bump a little like in the render shown above will give you a smoother result, also depending on your Light setup and the distance, size of your render.

Spending a little time in a paint application will give you better results, save you allot of time and frustrations using textures that do not work right .....

This for instance is the setup used in the renders previously posted The Texture maps are sharper with a slight blur on the borders, they are thinner then the ones from the Vascularity package. Color used for the Veins is the tint of the Skin used.

Now assuming that you are having problems finding the right color, or tint for the veins, then simply add the used texture of the doll for the color, this will give you the right tint for every region of the map, or at least help a little, reduce the Bump value depending on how sharp your Vein map is.

using the above setup with a Dark skin will result like the render below .... naturally in such a case it does not matter allot anymore how dark the skin will be. For a final you just need to setup a good light and fine retouch on Bump and contrast of the vein coloring with the skin map applied.

Just a quick scrap

Now lets say you wish having a slight blue tint on the veins using a rather white skin, do it just like above applying the skin texture to the color node of the Vein layer. Give a slight blue touch, you will not see it by eye as it will almost be like a white with the blue info. Again set your preferred bump strength depending the Vein map you are using.

If you wish having for instance a stronger effect on the chest with decreasing vain bump and a blue touch you can make the color dark blue in direction of black and reduce the values of the HSV from 0.02 to 0.002 really low the bump will need a allot higher value so instead of .007 .17 or more again it all depends on the Vascularity map you created. My map is just a basic and sure can be done allot better. Painting it keep the lines thin you always can enlarge them for your needs, give them a slight zig zag where the branch nodes are make it stronger like little knots, that will give a nice realistic effect.

This Vascularity thread just came in handy to make my Mr.Halloween 2023 right in time before the 31st. Sure going to be a nasty standalone scarecrow for Poser.....

Overworked the effects a little making the skin not look to dry and inverting the Vascularity .... guess it is going to be a matter of taste

Looks good. The skin is a bit too glossy, almost waxy, but it's acceptable.

Thank you, yes trying to reduce this glossy a little, this is a very sensible part finding the right setting, it is where the light also is interfering on slight movements :) at least for Halloween skin just can't go wrong :)

ok finetuned that skin a little mixing the dry and the waxy to get a balance in-between also balanced out the vascularity system not inverting it all. the skin texture is now having 3 levels, Bump, Displacement and gradient bump. Optix render time 5 sec

The setup is now supported in Superfly and as well in Firefly without having to change the textures, result differ a little but are in both render engines giving a satisfaction. Firefly renders in two levels and superfly in one.

That looks great for a good monster's makeup or ghoulish affair. Guess i will have to wait until after I return home. 😪

===========================================================

OS: Windows 11 64-bit
Poser: Poser 11.3 ...... Units: inches or meters depends on mood
Bryce: Bryce Pro 7.1.074
Image Editing: Corel Paintshop Pro
Renderer: Superfly, Firefly

9/11/2001: Never forget...

Smiles are contagious... Pass it on!

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday

This looks good, but just so we're clear:

This is NOT actual displacement, just bump, or did you subdivide the model several times?

I'm also curious what exact GPU you are using to get render times down to 5sec?

Have the "Fireflies" been removed with a filter or are you're settings high enough to remove them?

I'd also be interrested to see an OpenGL preview.

It seems the OpenGL preview actually changes, depending on what render engine (Firefly/Superfly) is used.

I think you need to render at least once to see the effect.

Thanks!

JoePublic posted at 9:08 AM Sun, 29 October 2023 - #4476985

This looks good, but just so we're clear:
This is NOT actual displacement, just bump, or did you subdivide the model several times?
I'm also curious what exact GPU you are using to get render times down to 5sec?
Have the "Fireflies" been removed with a filter or are you're settings high enough to remove them?
I'd also be interrested to see an OpenGL preview.
It seems the OpenGL preview actually changes, depending on what render engine (Firefly/Superfly) is used.
I think you need to render at least once to see the effect.
Thanks!

Actually displacement " one of the settings " no subdividing it is a Standalone Figure not based on any Mill or Genesis figures. This results having a 5 sec render or less in Optix high quality. Firefly with auto high setting about 7 seconds CPU i7-11700K

This is the Figure resolution of the face giving you an Idea with the above material setup. ( Preview ) The modified setup, whet skin already gives the skin displacement in the preview. Renders in two levels Firefly and one in Optix. No need of subdivision for the render results above.

Shown here is the Bump setting used like in the Vascularity and the first render posted that had a sandy dry skin . ( Preview )

Just finished up that Halloween release! Simple and effective .....

That PoserSurface node is incorrect. You are doubling up on your Diffuse and Specular by using both those channels and their alternatives. The Reflection_Lite_Mult should be ticked off; that feature is a hack reserved for gleaming, metallic surfaces.

ThunderStone posted at 7:22 PM Tue, 24 October 2023 - #4476766

What is the current default measurement in your poser settings?

Feet, exactly like hborre's.

hborre posted at 12:19 PM Sun, 29 October 2023 - #4476991

That PoserSurface node is incorrect. You are doubling up on your Diffuse and Specular by using both those channels and their alternatives. The Reflection_Lite_Mult should be ticked off; that feature is a hack reserved for gleaming, metallic surfaces.

Actually did not get any broken lines .... I think it does not matter if correct or incorrect in the theory, the praxis shows a correct render for what needs to be achieved, so for a final render it seems correct giving a cool skin effect, not even causing a render slowdown. You need N B and I maps depending on what you want . If I remove a node or change it you will not get this result on the skin, no way after trying so many variations. Will have to try ticking off the Ref light multy and see what is going to happen, Have not noted that it is on. But see what will happen.

If you can give me a sample ( Advice ) that is able giving such a effect in a correct way I sure would be very interested, tried already so many ways ......

Ok, The RLM does not change anything if on or off in this setup ?! It is also Important to know that the setup above is for SF and FF renders, For SF alone some nodes are unnecessary but are needed for FF. Like said any alternative sure is appreciated if they work, alternatives that are not working are obviously not the right ones :)

Thanks for sharing your technique and experiences. I was debating whether to upgrade to 13 from 12. I will take all information under advisement.

===========================================================

OS: Windows 11 64-bit
Poser: Poser 11.3 ...... Units: inches or meters depends on mood
Bryce: Bryce Pro 7.1.074
Image Editing: Corel Paintshop Pro
Renderer: Superfly, Firefly

9/11/2001: Never forget...

Smiles are contagious... Pass it on!

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday

Earlier in this thread (8 October) I noted that Superfly produces weird effects with Superfly producing "negative" displacements. The discussion here has wandered away from this but the fact remains that Superfly does not appear to handle displacement correctly (this not only affects vascularity maps but any displacement maps. I reported this to Poser support on 2 November (local time). Today I got this reply from Nerd3D:

"Thanks for reporting this. I can't believe this but that's been broken since we initially implemented SuperFly over 7 years ago. There's supposed to be a Displacement node between the Image map and the displacement output on the Cycles root. It was never added. It's in the code but was never included in the UI.

"This will be fixed in the next update of Poser."

Yay!!!!

oz_tangles posted at 11:48 PM Fri, 3 November 2023 - #4477287

Earlier in this thread (8 October) I noted that Superfly produces weird effects with Superfly producing "negative" displacements. The discussion here has wandered away from this but the fact remains that Superfly does not appear to handle displacement correctly (this not only affects vascularity maps but any displacement maps. I reported this to Poser support on 2 November (local time). Today I got this reply from Nerd3D:
"Thanks for reporting this. I can't believe this but that's been broken since we initially implemented SuperFly over 7 years ago. There's supposed to be a Displacement node between the Image map and the displacement output on the Cycles root. It was never added. It's in the code but was never included in the UI.
"This will be fixed in the next update of Poser."
Yay!!!!

This sure would be great, allot of issues would be solved if it gets fixed on the coming Poser update :)

oz_tangles posted at 11:48 PM Fri, 3 November 2023 - #4477287

Earlier in this thread (8 October) I noted that Superfly produces weird effects with Superfly producing "negative" displacements. The discussion here has wandered away from this but the fact remains that Superfly does not appear to handle displacement correctly (this not only affects vascularity maps but any displacement maps. I reported this to Poser support on 2 November (local time). Today I got this reply from Nerd3D:
"Thanks for reporting this. I can't believe this but that's been broken since we initially implemented SuperFly over 7 years ago. There's supposed to be a Displacement node between the Image map and the displacement output on the Cycles root. It was never added. It's in the code but was never included in the UI.
"This will be fixed in the next update of Poser."
Yay!!!!

OMG, yay indeed--thank you!!!!

Yay!!! Fixed at last!!!!

The displacement node bug when using the CyclesSurface root node has finally been fixed in Poser 13.895. This render shows the bug:

It usually doesn't show up on plane surfaces, but when the surface has a more complicated geometry (such as a vascularity map on a human figure) the displacement varies across the surface and can even be inverted. The same setup using version 13.895 is

The test object is the default primitive sphere. The material setup is shown here:

It has taken a year for the fix to be implemented but better late than never, I guess.

An actual displacement node has been added to the material room that will give you better setting control.

Don't get too excited yet. It's still not right. There's a artifact in the shading. Look at the inside of the "o" that shadow is 0,0,0 black. It shouldn't be. This got past smoke testing and beta. We're still working on it.

If you plug a displacement map directly into the Physical Root that will give simple displacement. If you're using the Cycles Root. There will need to be a VectorDisplacement or (vanilla) Displacement between the image and the root input.

Forum: Poser 13

Subject: Vascularity for Poser 13?

Summon_Conjurer