For me as for creating poser models on daily basis, there are two things that could be quiet important, preventing having to use P11 for the creations of the models and fully depend on P11 making it even possible to make Poser models.

1. bringing back the simple material room, or optionally add it as 3rd panel. It simplifies the workflow for basic texturing and is allot faster when it comes to models with allot of material regions, rather then applying it manually on each just to see how the model looks like . materials can be adapted afterwards if necessary in the Advanced tag. I guess this was the main Idea of Poser having a Simple and a Advanced option instead of a Assign option that is never used ! This feature already makes a creator depend on P11 unless he is new and never knew about the Simple feature in Poser.

2. I do not know if it could be possible, but as we know almost nothing is impossible if there is a will. Making Poser backward compatible with Py 2.7 so that the older essential scripts can be used as there are no replacements for these in P12 and 13 and there will probably never be any as poser seems to have gone through a full reset. Start from scratch. This is for a creator the main reason why he depends on P11 as allot of the scripts developed over decades are essential for a good model creation.

I am not sure if you are aware that also allot of DS creators build up there models in P11 and then encrypt them to DS formats due the better options for rigging and Grouping tools that poser offers. Basically the only platform that DS supports to import fully rigged models !

If something New then it should be considered not destroying the options that were build making it possible having all these unique creations that are getting rare due the restrictions caused. Poser as well as DS suffer of a loss of standalone Figure creations the past years that are essential for a good future. Versality is Important not just one Doll witch is the Mother for all further creations just leaving a option of making Derivative creation based on these base models.

So as Creator somehow just stuck in P11 for rigging and building and may be using P13 just to make the Promo renders or adapting the materials so that they work for the future users of poser.

An option to have individual settings for each material, rather than having the whole thing behave as one fabric. Use case is Lace sleeves, or Satin collars on linen top.

The ability to apply a texture map too ALL mat zones at once on one click not 4 plus as we currently have to remove unused nodes from each mat separately.

STOP embedding the OBJ in Props.

Give up on the XMP files or make their creation optional.

Andy!

JustBeCause posted at 6:03 PM Wed, 8 November 2023 - #4477459

For me as for creating poser models on daily basis, there are two things that could be quiet important, preventing having to use P11 for the creations of the models and fully depend on P11 making it even possible to make Poser models.
2. I do not know if it could be possible, but as we know almost nothing is impossible if there is a will. Making Poser backward compatible with Py 2.7 so that the older essential scripts can be used as there are no replacements for these in P12 and 13 and there will probably never be any as poser seems to have gone through a full reset. Start from scratch. This is for a creator the main reason why he depends on P11 as allot of the scripts developed over decades are essential for a good model creation.
So as Creator somehow just stuck in P11 for rigging and building and may be using P13 just to make the Promo renders or adapting the materials so that they work for the future users of poser.

What "essential scripts" are available for P11 regarding figure creation are you referring to here? Can you be specific?

I haven't needed to rig in P11 since the 2nd or 3rd (roughly) update to P12, and unless I'm specifically testing something I pretty much never even open P11 anymore. But I've never relied on scripts for rigging (or much of anything else) so the move away from python 2 was never an issue for me. I use D3D's PFE when I need to edit a cr2 and that is independent of any poser versions. Even with the additions to Poser's rigging it still works fine, so there's not a lot internally that has been changed that PFE can't read that I'm aware of. It seems most updates to the rigging functions since 11.1 have been in regards to joint and morph projections for clothing.

That said, there are script functionalities for rigging that I'd love to see incorporated into Poser but as far as I know they never existed in any 3rd party script regardless of python version. I think that if there were more tools added to Poser's rigging/figure creation directly within Poser we'd see a drastic reduction in the need for editing cr2s or relying on 3rd party scripts all together.

For example, I'd like to see a more robust implementation of joint projections, (including mirrored rigging) instead of the basic all-or-nothing approach we currently have. All that's possible to do currently is select which joints we want projected from a hierarchy. The ability to select which parameters of each joint we want projected would be a huge time saver, at least for me. Because I don't always want every parameter of each joint transferred. I may only want the maps on the X axis transferred for example, but leave the existing maps on Z and Y as they are. Or maybe I just want the scales copied and not the rotations. As it stand I have to do this sort of thing manually, one bone, one parameter/map at a time. And the only way to fully grasp how mind-numbingly tedious that is is to experience it for yourself.

The ability to copy individual limbs from an existing rig in the setup room would also be ideal, instead of having to use an entire rig and then delete and replace bones manually when I only need a certain portion.

*Better control over adjusting joint centers. For some reason they don't like to stay where you put them and will fly all over the place while trying to adjust. And unless you luck out and get them exactly where you need them in the setup room in the first try (which almost never happens) you're going to have to adjust them in the pose room while painting weights. Using front, side, etc., cameras can help but still doesn't fix the problem and those cameras don't always offer the best view. This is extremely frustrating and a sure way to turn people off from trying to create or modify their own content. The 'Lock end points' check box in the joint editor is helpful to some extent but still doesn't solve the problem.

*ERC/JCM mirror option, along with the rigging, especially when it's just transferring things like grasp and spread controls in a hand and don't require mirrored morphs. There's no reason I should have to spend hours doing the same thing on each side when Poser could include the option to.

*The ability to DELETE material zones from within Poser - likely via the grouping tool. They can be created and even modified, but they can't be removed. It's redonculous that I still have to go to blender or some other app just to remove a material zone at this stage of Poser's development.

*Add more Pose and Camera dots!!! 12 should be a minimum - 15 would be much better. 9 just isn't enough. I always run out of them and have to go back through and choose which older ones to replace. Maybe with an option for users to add additional ones if they want.

There are many more on my list but this is what I can think of at the moment.

If there are any pre-P12 scripts that provide any of these functions (and are still available somewhere) I'd love to hear about them.

1. Definitely correct the detection of objects/controls functions in Poser
Suppose you're changing the pose of the fingers, and that damn'^detector insists on trying to get something that's roughly 1'000'000'000 km/miles away behind, definitely NO

2. same era: using the Direct Manipulation tool (of which I'm a huge fan): more often than not the colored circles are visible but the same furiously annoying detector refuses to consider the colored circle my mouse cursor is passing on, even on the back on the said circle and insist on trying to get the same object that's also roughly 1'000'000'000 km/miles away behind, In this cas, we have to zoom out, which sometimes breaks the utility of the said tool.
Example:

I swear it: my mouse cursor is in the middle of the white circle and I can't reach the green one.

I've seen these two points for so long that I really don't remember when it started,

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(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

AmbientShade posted at 9:12 PM Thu, 9 November 2023 - #4477487

JustBeCause posted at 6:03 PM Wed, 8 November 2023 - #4477459
For me as for creating poser models on daily basis, there are two things that could be quiet important, preventing having to use P11 for the creations of the models and fully depend on P11 making it even possible to make Poser models.
2. I do not know if it could be possible, but as we know almost nothing is impossible if there is a will. Making Poser backward compatible with Py 2.7 so that the older essential scripts can be used as there are no replacements for these in P12 and 13 and there will probably never be any as poser seems to have gone through a full reset. Start from scratch. This is for a creator the main reason why he depends on P11 as allot of the scripts developed over decades are essential for a good model creation.
So as Creator somehow just stuck in P11 for rigging and building and may be using P13 just to make the Promo renders or adapting the materials so that they work for the future users of poser.
What "essential scripts" are available for P11 regarding figure creation are you referring to here? Can you be specific?

I sure can here a little sample of what is missing after the launch of P11 Bondware as also the PY system got broken after the update to 11.2 and Py can't be used without any 3rd Party Hack.

There is allot more then just helpers for creations ! thousands of created Packages not working correctly anymore as they have Integrated Py scripts, these are still sold in the store. But for the end user a real Dilemma.

Lets just pick 'ShaderWorks', 'Advanced Shaders' that is supporting .sh8 and generates automatically 2ond skin assignments quiet some Vendors were using this method. Or all the broken Material Packages. The List is very long

For end users ... are you able to create V4 WM in Poser 11.2 up ? are you able to create V4 SASHA ? can you use the AS fantastic packages without restrictions and features ?

Sorry but I actually do not even know where to beginn with what got lost ! And yes allot are essential for a good workflow unless you want to pass years building up a good complex standalone until it is ready for a release. But customers will not have the patience to wait for years or month. Productivity is the Key and this is what all these Addons were doing.

This is just a tiny list of things that got lost ...... A drop on a hot Stone.

Actually the shots above are only the ones that are Loaded in the script menu ... to keep the list shorter thousands or more are stored in the root of the PY folder, these are Imported into the PY panel if needed. Tools like bridges to connect with Blender, or to save the Obj's in a correct way for Morph creations, rigging and grouping helpers, Internal name rename, material name rename etc. comparing the P11 Py ( like shown Above ) with P13 is not a very helpful situation for Creators at all and also quiet a loss for end users. Sure you can say we have to go with time but if time is killing all the helping features what is it worth at the end. For me as a Creator a real Disaster and sure not standing alone here!

P13 atm as well as P12 2 years ++ and still empty. It will take decades of work getting it back the way it was and allot of creators. Probably it will never Happen.

AmbientShade posted at 9:12 PM Thu, 9 November 2023 - #4477487

*Better control over adjusting joint centers. For some reason they don't like to stay where you put them and will fly all over the place while trying to adjust. And unless you luck out and get them exactly where you need them in the setup room in the first try (which almost never happens) you're going to have to adjust them in the pose room while painting weights. Using front, side, etc., cameras can help but still doesn't fix the problem and those cameras don't always offer the best view. This is extremely frustrating and a sure way to turn people off from trying to create or modify their own content. The 'Lock end points' check box in the joint editor is helpful to some extent but still doesn't solve the problem.
*ERC/JCM mirror option, along with the rigging, especially when it's just transferring things like grasp and spread controls in a hand and don't require mirrored morphs. There's no reason I should have to spend hours doing the same thing on each side when Poser could include the option to.
*The ability to DELETE material zones from within Poser - likely via the grouping tool. They can be created and even modified, but they can't be removed. It's redonculous that I still have to go to blender or some other app just to remove a material zone at this stage of Poser's development.
*Add more Pose and Camera dots!!! 12 should be a minimum - 15 would be much better. 9 just isn't enough. I always run out of them and have to go back through and choose which older ones to replace. Maybe with an option for users to add additional ones if they want.

These are a few features that were existent in P11.1 coming as 3rd helper Pythons, do not recall right away how they are called, as meanwhile I use some other mods for this kind of stuff, but rigging goes really fast for sure. For example rigging hands takes less then a hour in P11 with the right tools !

Get Poser talking to one of the generative AIs, adding another way to render. Perhaps a PostFX connector to automatically pass the finished render's i) depth map, ii) real-time Comic Book line-art, and iii) the original render over to an Generative AI UI's (e.g. InvokeAI) Controlnet. It's all Python, so should theoretically be possible?

Learn the Secrets of Poser 11 and Line-art Filters.

HartyBart you may want to look at Kel1171's scripts for Poser 13 to find what you want. I know he had such a script ready to go to the marketplace, but there was a lot of AI hate running around here. It was submitted, but Rendo stomped on AI so I am not sure if it ever made it to the marketplace here. He may have submitted a version to DAZ as well. Haven't talked to him in a bit. In either circumstance, such a beast exists already and I know people using it so it's available. Try site mail here if nothing else.

I believe parkdalegardener is referring to OpenPose for Poser 12 https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/161157/openpose-for-poser-12

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Ken1171's script is in the marketplace here and he has demonstrated many renders using the script as the base for the figures. Yeah, the final images are AI-generated but different platforms are being used.

JustBeCause posted at 7:30 AM Fri, 10 November 2023 - #4477497

These are a few features that were existent in P11.1 coming as 3rd helper Pythons, do not recall right away how they are called, as meanwhile I use some other mods for this kind of stuff, but rigging goes really fast for sure. For example rigging hands takes less then a hour in P11 with the right tools !

If that's true they weren't widely available in any of the stores. Regardless, these features need to be built into the software and not dependent on 3rd party scripts that may disappear with their creators or become obsolete due to upgrades.

AmbientShade posted at 9:03 AM Sat, 11 November 2023 - #4477532

JustBeCause posted at 7:30 AM Fri, 10 November 2023 - #4477497

These are a few features that were existent in P11.1 coming as 3rd helper Pythons, do not recall right away how they are called, as meanwhile I use some other mods for this kind of stuff, but rigging goes really fast for sure. For example rigging hands takes less then a hour in P11 with the right tools !
If that's true they weren't widely available in any of the stores. Regardless, these features need to be built into the software and not dependent on 3rd party scripts that may disappear with their creators or become obsolete due to upgrades.

Furthermore: Ken's scripts only run on Windows 10+, probably because if I'm nt wrong they "phone home" each time they're launched, something that some customers may find inacceptable.

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(っ◔◡◔)っ

AmbientShade posted at 9:03 AM Sat, 11 November 2023 - #4477532

JustBeCause posted at 7:30 AM Fri, 10 November 2023 - #4477497

These are a few features that were existent in P11.1 coming as 3rd helper Pythons, do not recall right away how they are called, as meanwhile I use some other mods for this kind of stuff, but rigging goes really fast for sure. For example rigging hands takes less then a hour in P11 with the right tools !
If that's true they weren't widely available in any of the stores. Regardless, these features need to be built into the software and not dependent on 3rd party scripts that may disappear with their creators or become obsolete due to upgrades.

If you take a closer look on how things were built in Poser until P11, I mean the complexity of creations and the speed of releases. it should make you aware that there were sure allot of helping tools around. It is true that these were not redistributed here at renderosity. Some were at Daz, allot at RDNA, many others you could find all over the place on smaller Poser sites like Ontarget, Cp was also offering a wide range of helpers. Right now Poser is like a ghost town!

I do not know if you run your own little Poser business, releasing Poser models, I do, and I have to say if P11 would not be working anymore it would not be possible to hold the Poser sites I run, with P13 all creations like they are or were would just not be possible to create, due the missing creation apps. I would have to let the sites run out and they would just be a memory like almost all the Poser sites that have closed in the past years. but you should also be aware of this situation if you make works for Poser or run your own Poser site business.

I do not say that it is impossible making creations with P13, it is possible, but what you were doing in P11 in a day takes you over a week in P13, 3 days in P11 almost a month in P13 just because the tools that were doing the stuff in one click are gone and you need to write many options by hand into the poser files using a text editor.

I have no idea how deep Poser has fallen, just a little example: Tell a creator that is making Poser models since 2020 to make a easy pose into the tail he created! do you think he will be able to do it ? something that was totally common for poser over decades.

Just to say, you take the tool away from the creator and the creator will leave, as he cant work without the tool even that these were existent, I can tell what tools there were but it does not help anyone as these just can't be used anymore, it is a dead end. But would they be working again in P13 then sure it would be worth talking about all the possible features for creations. Right now all these tools need to be Invented again for P13 and someone will need to create these. Else just stuck on P11 as long as it lasts.

Python 2.7 was used in Poser 11. Python org AND its python developers ended support for this release of python on 1 Jan 2020. This is the reason that later versions of Poser began to use Python 3.

Ken1171 has written many python scripts that work in Poser 13. He would be the most likely person to contact to request some of the python functions you most need for Poser 13 and later.

Poser File Editor has a Create Chain Control command in the Tool menu that MAY serve the same functions as Easy Pose (never tried it)

And Ken1171 has a Chain Control script for Poser 12 and later

DeeceyArt posted at 3:20 PM Sat, 11 November 2023 - #4477545

Python 2.7 was used in Poser 11. Python org AND its python developers ended support for this release of python on 1 Jan 2020. This is the reason that later versions of Poser began to use Python 3.

The version of Python is P13 is no longer supported by Python Dev's either.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

shvrdavid posted at 4:43 PM Sat, 11 November 2023 - #4477549

DeeceyArt posted at 3:20 PM Sat, 11 November 2023 - #4477545
Python 2.7 was used in Poser 11. Python org AND its python developers ended support for this release of python on 1 Jan 2020. This is the reason that later versions of Poser began to use Python 3.
The version of Python is P13 is no longer supported by Python Dev's either.

If I'm not wrong, PYthon3 as used by Poser12+ is late because of the Mac's OSes

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(っ◔◡◔)っ

I remember an issue with Pythons, for example "Netherworks" that stopped working after the update to 2014 up, you did not have to rewrite the whole script, you just had to insert a new line and they all worked again, all the way up to P11.1 like the sample shown ....

ver = int(ver)

insert (on a new line):

if ver >= 10: ver = 9

if ver >= 11: ver = 10

depending on what poser version you still wanted to use the py script, with just little efforts a little line all these pythons were and still do work like a charm. most other older scripts could also be adapted in a similar way....

but the jump to Py3 is making things really difficult for sure unless you could make the Python think it is still working under P11 but actually is running in P13, there you would just need a Hack Python script like the one that was made to run the P11.1 Py in P11.2 faking the version number. without that hack most Pythons do not work in P11.2 even that they supposed to be working.

Such a script sure would be a top seller for Poser13 :) or a freebie making Poser attractive for creators and end users again, especially the ones who go with it since the beginning. would be worth a thought for many that are jumping onto DS to still use Poser ....

Isn't easypose just a series of erc's which can be created in Poser's dependency editor?

I never used the easypose script but I've set up plenty of pose dials directly in Poser without having to edit the cr2.

My issue is that Poser doesn't have a built-in function for mirroring of those erc's so you have to do it on both sides.

@AmbientShade, yes and no .. for Ajax's Easypose 2 at least.. While it does ERC, it also does geometry swapping, dial group creation, symmetrical slaving. The geometry swapping was nice for me when I made a version of Melody(furry) and could swap out the hip to have a no tail patch (otherwise if you just hid the tail parts you had a big hole in her backside.) .. And it still works perfectly fine, since it's a stand alone program.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?

you can also give it a shot with this one it is free :) have not used it personally as my system has a Py loader for EPU 2.0.0.6 in Poser ....

https://sharecg.com/v/90739/gallery/8/Script/Freazypose-prototype0.06

other optional scripts were at CP but there all dead by now ... btw EPU can be also useful creating movements like close hands or move fingers without having to create masterdials in poser it self

EPU has loads of features for figure creations and setups actually a amazing little program, as a creator it was a must have to make good and clean releases of models. actually still is :)

To give you an Idea on how Poser was looking alike for a creator offering a good workflow, being able to setup your panels in a fast way increasing the speed of your creations. Something that I am sure missing in the Bondware versions. I am not sure if you people in here are really aware of what is missing, or if you ever got that deep into matter for figure creations, naturally it is also affecting the workflow of end users not having access to all these features.

A sample of Poser in creation mode with Python fast access.

The way Poser 13 is offered atm is like having a Light version and for Creators sure a big Dilemma! New does not mean to be better and more sometimes it can happen that it will be less.

I believe that most users are not really aware of the size poser had to offer and how many feature there really were, often I read in forums about requests of new features for poser that already existed since decades, they just gotten buried under the New.

JustBeCause posted at 7:00 AM Sun, 12 November 2023 - #4477558

I believe that most users are not really aware of the size poser had to offer and how many feature there really were, often I read in forums about requests of new features for poser that already existed since decades, they just gotten buried under the New.

If they were features that required a 3rd party script that is no longer available (such as easypose) then they were features that Poser itself never offered.

That just amplifies the point I made in my initial post. These features need to exist IN poser and not be dependent on ancient 3rd party scripts that are no longer available, making them only accessible to those who still have access to those scripts.

And geometry swapping doesn't work with weight mapped figures (unless someone has figured out a way to do it and is keeping it to themselves). It would be a nice feature to have back but from the looks of it that won't be possible until Poser has full unimesh support, if that ever happens.

I just did a little test using M2P4Lo:

I switched the rigging method to "Poser Unimesh"

The Poser 11 Genital switch still worked. (It simply swaps a genital hip + genital geometry with a non genital hip geometry)

Then I selected one knee and turned the falloff zones of the knee ONLY into a weightmap.

And re-rigged it using the weightmapping tool.

The Poser 11 Genital switch still worked.

So, as long as the bodypart that is going to be switched is NOT weightmapped, everything else CAN be weightmapped.

Just do not hit the "Merge All Zones To Weightmaps" button but convert the falloff zones one-by-one inside the weightmapping tool.

Now, of course, the hip/buttock resp. the hip/thigh joints benefit tremendously from weightmapping, so NOT weightmapping the hip actor would be a bit of a problem.

So, to add a tail, I would just create a "secondary hip" part that either connects with the tail or acts as a plug to cover the hole in the main hip if the tail is not needed.

This allows the main hip to be still weightmapped.

And only that secondary hip part stays non-weightmapped and can therefore be swapped.

BTW, weightmapping is good. Very, very good. I wouldn't want to be without it.

BUT...some late 4th generation DAZ figures bend ALMOST as well just using conventional falloff zones.

That means that, while the weightmap still is better in general (Although not perfect), a really well rigged sphere/capsule rigged joint can easily be brought up to the same standard by an additional JCM.

I usually focus on improving already existing (realistic) figures, so I have not much need for geometry swapping.

And I usually weightmap male figures with their genitals intact and just add a "genital gone" morph. (Ouch!) ;-)

But if I wanted to design a custom figure WITH geometry swapping, I'd just add a secondary hip like mentioned before, or keep the hip non-weightmapped and improve the joints associated with the hip using "stronger" JCM's.

JoePublic posted at 11:23 AM Sun, 12 November 2023 - #4477563

And I usually weightmap male figures with their genitals intact and just add a "genital gone" morph. (Ouch!) ;-)

That's what I've done with my figures and it works fine.

I tend to not like the mixed media-type rigging of partial weight maps and traditional in the same figure but that's me, I'm sure it's useful for others in certain situations.

I know this might be unpopular, but Poser needs AI integration or it will simply be obsolete, it's a fact.

We all like Poser, but missing out or ignoring AI is going to kill it and any potential it has for being able to turn into a really useful and cool tool.

Watch this video, I suggested that Poser should do something like this before AI was banned from the site, which is still a huge mistake. This is what Poser could and should aim for. The program is basically designed for stuff like this, "just" needs an integration to Stable diffusion and we know that Poser already uses a lot of Blender stuff, so why not support it. Im sorry it is ridiculous to not do it.

Blender and AI

Even if you hate AI, Poser won't survive without it.

3D-Mobster posted at 6:56 AM Fri, 24 November 2023 - #4478089

I know this might be unpopular, but Poser needs AI integration or it will simply be obsolete, it's a fact.
We all like Poser, but missing out or ignoring AI is going to kill it and any potential it has for being able to turn into a really useful and cool tool.
Watch this video, I suggested that Poser should do something like this before AI was banned from the site, which is still a huge mistake. This is what Poser could and should aim for. The program is basically designed for stuff like this, "just" needs an integration to Stable diffusion and we know that Poser already uses a lot of Blender stuff, so why not support it. Im sorry it is ridiculous to not do it.
Blender and AI
Even if you hate AI, Poser won't survive without it.

What do you mean that Poser needs AI integration? Its confusing because its a human artist tool, generally machine learning does not need software user interfaces or applications to create 3d art renders. If not in the actual auto creation of 3d renders, perhaps you want the Poser scene and material creation to have some sort of AI assist? To accomplish this privacy and other IP considerations important to Artists must be carefully weighed as AI learning can be locally evolved so YOUR application techniques become more intuitive over time, or client/server based (cloud) based where user data is shared with AI networks so that advancements evolve rapidly and broadly with other peoples techniques analyzed and adapted.... do we want that - would it ruin art through technique hominization?

Can you give a use case or examples of the specific AI capabilities in Poser you are seeking?

3D-Mobster posted at 6:56 AM Fri, 24 November 2023 - #4478089

I know this might be unpopular, but Poser needs AI integration or it will simply be obsolete, it's a fact.
We all like Poser, but missing out or ignoring AI is going to kill it and any potential it has for being able to turn into a really useful and cool tool.
Watch this video, I suggested that Poser should do something like this before AI was banned from the site, which is still a huge mistake. This is what Poser could and should aim for. The program is basically designed for stuff like this, "just" needs an integration to Stable diffusion and we know that Poser already uses a lot of Blender stuff, so why not support it. Im sorry it is ridiculous to not do it.
Blender and AI
Even if you hate AI, Poser won't survive without it.

What do you mean that Poser needs AI integration? It's confusing because its a human artist tool, generally machine learning does not need software user interfaces or applications to create 3d art renders. If not in the actual auto creation of 3d renders, perhaps you want the Poser scene and material creation to have some sort of AI assist? To accomplish this privacy and other IP considerations important to Artists must be carefully weighed as AI learning can be locally evolved so YOUR application techniques become more intuitive over time, or client/server based (cloud) based where user data is shared with AI networks so that advancements evolve rapidly and broadly with other peoples techniques analyzed and adapted.... do we want that - would it ruin art through technique hominization?

The from my understanding of the Blender script, is that it is able to approximate a figures Pose from a representative 2D image. Not certain why/what "AI" has to do with that but it could be a programmed capability rather than learned on the fly. Is AI even necessary in this capability, as MOCAP exists.

Please provide some use case or examples of the specific AI capabilities in Poser you are seeking?

dreamcutter posted at 11:24 AM Fri, 24 November 2023 - #4478098

What do you mean that Poser needs AI integration? It's confusing because its a human artist tool, generally machine learning does not need software user interfaces or applications to create 3d art renders. If not in the actual auto creation of 3d renders, perhaps you want the Poser scene and material creation to have some sort of AI assist? To accomplish this privacy and other IP considerations important to Artists must be carefully weighed as AI learning can be locally evolved so YOUR application techniques become more intuitive over time, or client/server based (cloud) based where user data is shared with AI networks so that advancements evolve rapidly and broadly with other peoples techniques analyzed and adapted.... do we want that - would it ruin art through technique hominization?
The from my understanding of the Blender script, is that it is able to approximate a figures Pose from a representative 2D image. Not certain why/what "AI" has to do with that but it could be a programmed capability rather than learned on the fly. Is AI even necessary in this capability, as MOCAP exists.
Please provide some use case or examples of the specific AI capabilities in Poser you are seeking?

If we look at some common issues, not only in Poser but in general when using 3d applications. Everything takes a huge amount of work, even the most simple things. One thing to keep in mind when reading this is that these technologies keep improving.

Clothing

Being able to get an AI to simulate clothing is much faster than doing it dynamically through the cloth room, the AI doesn't care about collision in the same way and can apply realistic clothing to anything, animals, humans, monsters you name it. This also applies to animations.

If you look at a video like this:

AI to video

Why would you need to Mocab anything if Poser could hook up to your webcam and the AI transfer your movement to the character?

Hair

I think everyone knows that hair in 3D is a nightmare, it always looks stiff and wrong and making dynamic hair takes a really long time and is not easy and we don't even have the tools in Poser to do that well. AI would have no issues with that, especially if one imagines that in Poser you simply write what type of hair you want, or you find an image on the internet and throw it in and the AI copy it to the model. or you can control it using very simple controls compared to now.

Color and decals

This is something that we currently have to do in textures, yet it would be pretty cool if you could get the AI to apply different colors or patterns in post, maybe make the clothing look torn or worn etc. Apply mud if the character is walking on that surface. Rather than having to go in and create new textures from scratch each time.

And you could add fog, smoke, fire, water, rain, snow etc. in post as well rather than having to render them, which takes a very long time in general.

Sound and voice

This is a new tool that has gone into Beta (created by 2 people) and shows what you can do with voice, then one could imagine that you take that sound file, throw in Poser and the AI can animate the face on your character saying whatever you told it to.

AI any voice

Building scene assets

These are just some examples of how it could be used, you could also get the AI to create the part of the scene that is just background clutter, so if your scene is about a man driving a car through a city, then you just need the car and the man and the AI will add all the other things in the background based on what you have told it. This is a common issue in general when doing 3d, the majority of things in a scene are not important, it is simply there to not make the scene look boring. It would make working in Poser a lot faster.

Generate 3D objects

This is well under way and has improved quite a lot in the last few months so it probably won't take all that long before we see it.

Final thoughts

Basically, the possibilities based on what is going on are so crazy, that I wouldn't be surprised if in 5-10 years you simply generate a whole Hollywood-quality movie based on what you want to see, and the AI will write and direct everything and just generate it for you. But there are so many options here, that I think it would be stupid of Poser to at least not embrace it and integrate it into the software as best as they can. Whether they are big enough to keep up I have no clue, because as we know there is being spent so much money by huge companies in AI at the moment that it is insane, it's basically an arms race.

If you look at this AI-generated movie. Based on the description it is an animator with 25 years of experience making his first AI video. Now imagine how it will be in 5-10 years, given that AI video generation is very new. But I think one could imagine how Poser could be used to help control scenes and shots etc.

AI movie

3D-Mobster posted at 1:41 PM Fri, 24 November 2023 - #4478100

If you look at this AI-generated movie. Based on the description it is an animator with 25 years of experience making his first AI video. Now imagine how it will be in 5-10 years, given that AI video generation is very new. But I think one could imagine how Poser could be used to help control scenes and shots etc.
AI movie

To make this movie it appears the AI is applied as 2D compost and AfterFX. Iin other words, the AI system is not building the scene in 3d in its memory, then rendering it out - it it using pixel morphing at the 2D level - aka PS perspective warp and blending. You could render scenes in Poser today, use as source data for an AI Image/movie generator and get this result. Today the text and image interfaces necessitates enormous Trial and Error in production to have the AI LERN and produce teh desired output. The trial and error nature of artist produced AI creations means LOTS and LOTS of attempts, therefore 3d raytraced rendering by an AI scene builder would require cloud based virtualized GPU hardware and be VERY expensive, unless the AI API option for local rendering system was used. That would tie up your system for ages.... because AI is not as smart as the intelligent human artist at getting it (near) right the first time before hitting render.

>> Why would you need to Mocab anything if Poser could hook up to your webcam and the AI transfer your movement to the character? << This literally IS the definition of Motion Capture (MOCAP), and there are affordable hobby grade camera pose and animation capture systems available today for your 3d pipeline. Intel makes the realsense, and I still have an old Microsoft MOCAP camera some where... It was used by IClone's MOCAP. Reallusion, a competitor to DAZ/Poser actually created a DAZ to to IClone 3d pipeline exchange figure converter and a Camera Mocap system was developed to merge figures with Poses animation. So Blenders AI 2D to Pose approximator script could be applied to a Poser grouped figure in Blender and export BVH file. .BVH is the general file standard to exchange pose/animations to .FBX and Collada figures and Poser imports BVH fine now, even in a parametric grouped rig.

AI creating scenes in your Local Poser instance would be weird again, seems like automation is what you are seeking rather than Artificial Intelligence... are you looking to describe in text what you want in scene rather than grab the content from your library or are you expecting Magician AI to procure the 3D scene content on demand and charge your credit card for the scene you described... I hope accurately or $ wasted...

Recall this thread is a CONTENT DEVELOPER Wishlist for future Poser versions so coming up with a way to eliminate the need for a artist, or even the content store itself would be a bummer to most reading this. Dang we could have AI be the audience for the Gallery and have AI appreciate the AI artists,,, we could save power to our PC's and just eat left over Turkey all day.

dreamcutter posted at 9:25 AM Sat, 25 November 2023 - #4478128

To make this movie it appears the AI is applied as 2D compost and AfterFX. Iin other words, the AI system is not building the scene in 3d in its memory, then rendering it out - it it using pixel morphing at the 2D level - aka PS perspective warp and blending. You could render scenes in Poser today, use as source data for an AI Image/movie generator and get this result. Today the text and image interfaces necessitates enormous Trial and Error in production to have the AI LERN and produce teh desired output. The trial and error nature of artist produced AI creations means LOTS and LOTS of attempts, therefore 3d raytraced rendering by an AI scene builder would require cloud based virtualized GPU hardware and be VERY expensive, unless the AI API option for local rendering system was used. That would tie up your system for ages.... because AI is not as smart as the intelligent human artist at getting it (near) right the first time before hitting render.
>> Why would you need to Mocab anything if Poser could hook up to your webcam and the AI transfer your movement to the character? << This literally IS the definition of Motion Capture (MOCAP), and there are affordable hobby grade camera pose and animation capture systems available today for your 3d pipeline. Intel makes the realsense, and I still have an old Microsoft MOCAP camera some where... It was used by IClone's MOCAP. Reallusion, a competitor to DAZ/Poser actually created a DAZ to to IClone 3d pipeline exchange figure converter and a Camera Mocap system was developed to merge figures with Poses animation. So Blenders AI 2D to Pose approximator script could be applied to a Poser grouped figure in Blender and export BVH file. .BVH is the general file standard to exchange pose/animations to .FBX and Collada figures and Poser imports BVH fine now, even in a parametric grouped rig.
AI creating scenes in your Local Poser instance would be weird again, seems like automation is what you are seeking rather than Artificial Intelligence... are you looking to describe in text what you want in scene rather than grab the content from your library or are you expecting Magician AI to procure the 3D scene content on demand and charge your credit card for the scene you described... I hope accurately or $ wasted...
Recall this thread is a CONTENT DEVELOPER Wishlist for future Poser versions so coming up with a way to eliminate the need for a artist, or even the content store itself would be a bummer to most reading this. Dang we could have AI be the audience for the Gallery and have AI appreciate the AI artists,,, we could save power to our PC's and just eat left over Turkey all day.

How we do things is going to change, it's not about Poser in general, it is an industry-wide thing. And Poser like all other 3d applications have to adjust. The content store might change, but so will content store like DAZ, Unity, Unreal etc. even websites like Stockimage will have to adapt given that people can now generate high-quality images. Its simply about facing realities.

Nothing of what I suggest would essentially prevent people from using poser in the traditional way, why they would I don't know but that is up to them.

And as I said this is coming to 3d as well, here are some short videos.

Masterpiece X

Masterpiece Studio is an AI-powered text-to-3D generator that has revolutionized the 3D modeling process. It uses sophisticated Natural Language Processing (NLP) technology to transform a user's descriptive language into a 3D model.

Meshcapade
Leading AI text-to-3D generator that can create high-quality 3D models from text inputs. It offers a unified platform compatible with all game engines and graphics applications to meet your avatar requirements.

Luma AI

Luma AI is a toolkit for developers and hobbyists. It offers various types of creator tools and APIs such as; flythrough videos, NeRF videos, video to 3D, text to 3D (alpha), game art, e-commerce art, and more. Luma AI has a great team behind them and are continuously developing out the offerings to users.

3DFY Prompt
3DFY AI uses advanced generative AI to produce high-quality 3D models from textual descriptions. By eliminating the need for costly, time-consuming, and impracticable manufacturing or scanning methods, 3DFY AI has made the creation of 3D content accessible to everybody.

RODIN Diffusion by Microsoft

RODIN is an AI-powered system that can create realistic 3D avatars using information like a client image. A client can have an immersive viewing experience by watching these created avatars in 360-degree views. This makes RODIN a valuable tool for those who want to create lifelike 3D characters based on one’s likeness.

Avaturn

Avaturn stands as an authentic avatar generator and serves as an avatar infrastructure for various gaming platforms, applications, and expansive virtual worlds. This system empowers game creators to dedicate their energies to refining the gameplay experience, as Avaturn takes the reins on avatar creation and personalization. The Avaturn add-on enables end-users to craft lifelike avatars that mirror their real-world likeness. Users are provided with a vast selection of customization options, including but not limited to body configuration, apparel, adornments, hairdos, footwear, and eyewear.

If all these companies can find ways to integrate and make use of AI, why should Poser do it? It makes no sense for them to try to keep doing the same things when things are changing. When people argue against them doing this, they are killing Poser, im sorry to say it but that is the truth. Because it not going to fly in the future to work in the traditional ways that we used to. They need to jump on the wagon now and figure out how they can make use of AI to improve the experience for their users, it is a unique chance for them to create something really cool.

Forgot to add, this is an image created using Poser and SD I did some time ago, so they can already be used together.

The 3D model controls the generation, but it is not easily done compared to if it was integrated into Poser which it should in my opinion.

Slowly getting tired of these 100% artificial non intelligence stuff, honestly.

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(っ◔◡◔)っ

Y-Phil posted at 6:27 AM Sun, 26 November 2023 - #4478177

Slowly getting tired of these 100% artificial non intelligence stuff, honestly.

I agree with you!
Greetings and have a nice Sunday

In a way it sure is interesting working with AI and modeling, disadvantage is that it still generates allot of errors and the end renders can't be really controlled like when making 3D artworks or 3D, after generating such you have to ask your self if it is really what you wanted to have or if it is something that you were not aware that you wish having.

I Personally found a good way integrating this AI for a simple use, the generated Images can be very helpful giving you an Idea on what kind of Poser mesh you wish working at, using it like a scrap for a future figure model, wish having a Dragon, an elf, an armor, a robot and so on, the Ai generators can sure hit your taste and offer you a template for a future figure creation with loads of details that you probably would not of considered making in your creation.

This sure could push an artist making more detailed Products, you sort of learn from these engines and you are able to develop your creativity.

out of this creature I made and meanwhile released

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/comments/4478107/permalink

I generated these AI Images with a target on what I would like having, resulting that I got some quiet nice Templates for future Poser Figure creations, these results giving me enough details to work on Models also offering the possibility giving them even more Details

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/comments/4478110/permalink

These results give me motivation building some that go in that direction thinking ... wooh how bad ass it would be having these as 3D models for Poser, I am sure that other poser users would lick there fingers getting hand on such models ....

Would be nice if AI could generate the mesh that would save a whole lot of time, side effect is that allot of creators would lose there creative jobs and stores like renderosity could close there doors .....

I fully understand this, but the fact is that we didn't have it before. It's like asking if we really wanted computers when no one hardly knew what it was? I can't answer that, because I don't know how far these things will go. But following along in the development of these things, things are happening fast and improving at an alarming rate.

Im a content creator myself so I know how much time it takes to create a product with everything it includes. And if the development of these 3D tools continues, take into account that what you see in the videos above are the very first stages, then these tools will eventually be extremely powerful and fast.

If you imagine that a program like 3DFY, were integrated into Poser, then you would basically go to the top and write "Red Leather sofa" and a few minutes later Poser would give you 3 options and you could select one and it would generate that sofa in your scene as a 3d object.

No, content creators can compete with something like that. Even if Poser didn't want to make this feature, someone else is and you would still be able to use that program to create OBJs that you could import into Poser. This means that either you would use these programs yourself or the content creators would and then turn them into a product, but I think most people would probably choose to just generate them themselves, so the store would be hurt anyway because it would be flooded with objects or they would simply not sell.

You can compare it to AI art, where people can upload AI art and then others can buy them. My guess is that hardly any of them sell anything because people simply make it themselves. What these sites make their money on is selling the prints on posters or on t-shirts etc. but the art creators hardly make anything.

I don't want anyone to lose their jobs or to see the Poser market destroyed, I simply look at what is going on and that things are changing and someone will create these tools because we know for a fact they are, what im saying is that Poser needs to find ways to make use of them to improve the experience for their users.

Look at the music industry, you can basically create songs now for free created completely by AI. This is a song I made using Chatgpt and Suno, so Chatgpt wrote the lyrics in the form of a song which is a recipe for scrambled eggs and Suno turned it into a song:

Scrambled egg song

I know nothing about music, I can't sing, write or compose. Yet, you could easily imagine that in 5 years, you will simply get an AI to generate the music you want to hear on the fly kind of like Spotify, it creates two versions of the song in less than 2 minutes. Is that bad for music creators? Probably yes. But these things are coming and fast, is it good or bad? The fact is that it is coming no matter what.

It has been explained numerously elsewhere: A(not)I has nothing to do with 3D, it's nothing else than the result of the combination of a collection of statistical data, the engine behind doesn't understand a single binary digit (Bit in short) of all this 3D world. It just take a picture, collect data stolen elsewhere to create a result for which it doesn't even understand what it really is, so that it looks like the given picture, while respecting at best the texts put in entry.

Furthermore: who would buy a program that costs 200 bucks or so when you have free alternatives? Especially if the idea is not to create a render but just pose a set of coordinates that looks like a human of a beast, or an animal?

Final word: almost every week, the 3D world loses a valuable artist, who will probably never return.

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(っ◔◡◔)っ

Those are good questions and I don't have the answers to them. Again, im simply arguing that these things are happening, whether they are good or bad, is kind of irrelevant I think, because none of us are going to stop it. And in the end, Poser is still a program that will only get development if it makes money and if it can't compete or there are too few users then they won't spend money on it and its probably even worse for Daz because their model is based on content. But if people start to use AI to create these then what?

But I think there are options for them to get in on this, which in many cases might simply be easy integration and user-friendliness. but it doesn't make sense to do it in 5-10 years once all the others have created tools because then these will be the ones that people will use. And as these things develop, new ideas and solution etc. might appear that can be turned into unique features.

One could imagine that Poser had integrated A* for pathfinding and could generate a nav-mesh, so you could build a scene and place a character at point A and then move it somewhere else in the scene and then in a prompt write "lazy walk" and the AI could automatically animate your character walking in the scene around obstacles without you having to do it.

My point is that I think we will see a lot of changes happening over the next many years, and that there are lots of cool things that could be done to improve the quality of the stuff we can make.

But exactly where this technology ends up is extremely difficult to say, because it is so early. And if the rumors of OpenAI and the Q* is true, then it will get even crazier, because then these LLMs, will become better at math which is an obstacle now, but needed for AGI.

Yes, it's sad that we lose 3D artists, but again this is going to affect the whole entertainment industry whether we like it or not.

This is probably a more hands-on video, as it will actually show a whole workflow from start to finish of how he is using different AI tools with 2d and 3d. Which I think gives a good idea of where the industry is probably heading. And one could easily imagine how some of these things could be features in Poser as well I think.

2D Character Image To Full 3D Animation with AI

This AI 3d project seems to be aiming for that, applying animation to a fbx figure based on video/image samples . https://plask.ai/

However while many of the objectives you describe like text UI administration of Poser (Py script) can already and has been done WITHOUT AI, the reliance of an AI webservice to the Poser software application will be a costly dependency and likely convert the use license to subscription or pay per use. Because it woudl so fundamentally change the direction and technical resources behind the development of Poser, IMO it woudl make more sense for Bondware to license out the Poser API to a 3D AI art front end if the technology required it.

I tried some of the suggested tools, that masterpieceX output is not render worthy... not close. Maybe background characters for some amature low poly retro game, but not art quality renders, Seems like embracing AI at the moment would be be foolhardy and reactionary to the hype and buzz... Poser is not NVIDIA. I do not think Poser NEEDS AI integration to succeed... perhaps the depreciated FUSION capability could be replaces with OpenUSD & Omniverse support. That would enable more than just AI in the pipeline.

dreamcutter posted at 4:19 PM Sun, 26 November 2023 - #4478201

This AI 3d project seems to be aiming for that, applying animation to a fbx figure based on video/image samples . https://plask.ai/
However while many of the objectives you describe like text UI administration of Poser (Py script) can already and has been done WITHOUT AI, the reliance of an AI webservice to the Poser software application will be a costly dependency and likely convert the use license to subscription or pay per use. Because it woudl so fundamentally change the direction and technical resources behind the development of Poser, IMO it woudl make more sense for Bondware to license out the Poser API to a 3D AI art front end if the technology required it.

I tried some of the suggested tools, that masterpieceX output is not render worthy... not close. Maybe background characters for some amature low poly retro game, but not art quality renders, Seems like embracing AI at the moment would be be foolhardy and reactionary to the hype and buzz... Poser is not NVIDIA. I do not think Poser NEEDS AI integration to succeed... perhaps the depreciated FUSION capability could be replaces with OpenUSD & Omniverse support. That would enable more than just AI in the pipeline.

I fully agree with you, the tools at the moment are not useful in real production. But looking at tendencies in these tools and what they are talking about, I think it is pretty obvious what they are aiming towards, so think ahead 2-5 years from now, if they can already achieve these things now.

If you take the last video I linked. At the beginning of it, simply being able to take a 2d image, upload it to a website, and turn it into 3d in a few hours is pretty crazy. Same with how he rigs it and animates it.

As technology enhances there is a good chance that you will run this locally like you will do with SD. I think you can look at this as with videos, in the beginning (few month ago) you needed very powerful GPUs, now they are talking about how to render videos on less than 8GB of VRAM.

So I don't think one should judge these things on what we see today, because again they are in the very early stages of development. And sure Poser is not Nvidia or Microsoft, but a lot of these tools are not created by these huge companies. A lot of them make use of open-source stuff like SD, which is also in the process of creating a huge 3D model like they have for the 2D images, so it will be interesting to see that when it is done because I think that is when we will start to see real huge improvements in the 3D area.

And even if Poser doesn't have direct AI support, it doesn't change that people will simply start to use external 3D generators to create content rather than buying them, when these tools become good enough. If you can upload an image of a leather sofa or use text to 3d in SD to generate a high quality fully textured 3D object then you won't buy it at DAZ or Renderosity.

No different than you can download free 3d objects from websites now, the only issue with them is that they often have a lot of problems that need fixing, so in many cases it is better to buy them. But in theory, the idea is exactly the same, except that you will just generate what you need.

I think it is important to not look at all these AI tools based on what they can do now, but on what they will be able to do.

Development Feature Suggestion:

Central/ Bulk Parameter Lable renaming capability. USE CASE: Figure developers typically standardize the figure joint rotational parameters to common english ie: RotationX = Bend, RotationY = Twist, Rotational = Side so ability to automatically rename all joint rotation parameters to their common english equivalant based on Joint Order selection would be a real timesaver when configuring Joint Parameters but especially when transferring JP's into a modified/new figure mesh. Its common for the need to replace mesh in figure QA or product refinement where a vertex morph may inadvertantly cause polygroup seperation.
One way to acconplish this is with a checkbox option to transfer lables with JPs in the existing JP Transfer feature - that would achieve the greatest % of capability with least dev effort.

don't forget that poser initially was just a simple guide for artists who magnified their 3D with painting or photo software

don't forget Kodak who didn't want to see the arrival of digital, photography still exists, let's find the best way

What this thread was supposed to be: "suggest new features for Poser!"

What it became: AI junkies again predicting the death of some software without AI saying it's "a fact" (I love those "facts" without any scientific method to support them, alas)

Renderosity banned AI imagery because, as it is currently, it has absolutely no ethics towards the work and value of the actual artists their databases steal from. This is a site made for artists. Like any other site made for artists that wants to keep fostering art and not remade amalgamations of previously made imagery until all the actual artists give up and move away, Renderosity has banned it. Poser is owned by the same company that runs Renderosity. You might as well stop wasting everyone's time by trying to get Poser to use a (at least so far) completely unethical technology that Renderosity has banned.

On another, but related, point: to all our old members, can you still count how many times someone has come to these forums to say that Poser "for a fact" will die without something something? I think I got tired of these "predictions" some fifteen years ago.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Thank you, Ohki. Let's get this thread back on track before moderators lock it up.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 2:37 PM Tue, 28 November 2023 - #4478297

What this thread was supposed to be: "suggest new features for Poser!"
What it became: AI junkies again predicting the death of some software without AI saying it's "a fact" (I love those "facts" without any scientific method to support them, alas)

Renderosity banned AI imagery because, as it is currently, it has absolutely no ethics towards the work and value of the actual artists their databases steal from. This is a site made for artists. Like any other site made for artists that wants to keep fostering art and not remade amalgamations of previously made imagery until all the actual artists give up and move away, Renderosity has banned it. Poser is owned by the same company that runs Renderosity. You might as well stop wasting everyone's time by trying to get Poser to use a (at least so far) completely unethical technology that Renderosity has banned.

On another, but related, point: to all our old members, can you still count how many times someone has come to these forums to say that Poser "for a fact" will die without something something? I think I got tired of these "predictions" some fifteen years ago.

I never intended to start a discussion about AI it was merely MY suggestion for what Poser should do, but think it is polite to answer someone when they ask me a question. Anyway, sorry that it turned into something it wasn't meant to become as I didn't mean for it to derail the thread. Time will tell if Im right or wrong and if Renderosity and Poser users are dead set on not using AI. I think we will probably find out soon enough anyway.

But ill not reply to anything related to AI here anymore to avoid derailing the thread.

In some sort of way after studying a wider range of possibilities I figures out that in the future it sure could be a part of integration into Poser, If used as enhancement, not to change or replace your work. so I ran a deep test and the results are amazing!

Considering that you have a texture set of 2k but you wish having a 6k and higher render, you need to have enhanced textures or a enhanced render, either way yo will need the Models for it to work. I tested a simple texturing I made and boy the result are blowing me away ! Now got a problem as all models I have made could run through a update

Here is a sample , Not using my textures but a Image. the original is 832 x 1248 with a minor quality. Using AI I upscale the Image to 3328 x 4992 and raise the quality,

Original

AI enhanced Open in new window to see full size

Original

AI enhanced Open in new window to see full size

this is just a fast local run ! I did the same thing with a model I am working at enhancing all the textures, but considering that this tech also is capable enhancing final renders it sure would be an amazing addition in poser. Now I just got on a point after these testing and curiosity that I probably can't be without it for the Texture creations that raise my model creations onto a all new level of quality !

You talk allot about texturing in these forums, how to improve your renders with texture setups, here we just have a amazing solution without altering your creativity or Images based on coincidence, you control your art AI just fixing the quality of your work, just like a program that is adjusting the color and contrast ....

Renderosity, the owner of Poser, has banned AI here, for reasons Afrodite-Ohki summed up succinctly earlier in this thread. I highly doubt that they:

1. would entertain including any of its iterations in their software and

2. Would not lock this thread or even delete it if people continue to insist on the inclusion of it.

As this is the forum of a private enterprise, I am inclined to respect their rules.

JustBeCause posted at 8:16 AM Thu, 30 November 2023 - #4478365

Would you PLEASE stop publishing those......... "pictures" everywhere?

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(っ◔◡◔)っ

Rhia474 posted at 10:13 AM Thu, 30 November 2023 - #4478379

Renderosity, the owner of Poser, has banned AI here, for reasons Afrodite-Ohki summed up succinctly earlier in this thread. I highly doubt that they:
1. would entertain including any of its iterations in their software and
2. Would not lock this thread or even delete it if people continue to insist on the inclusion of it.

As this is the forum of a private enterprise, I am inclined to respect their rules.

I Personally am not for all these AI features when it is starting to replace my creativity, but like mentioned in the case above it can be helpful for 3D creations enhancing the Textures and renders without a coincidental feature. I searched for solutions that can help creators, the one shown above is like using a Photoshop creating your Textures Like you would enhance Contrast or Colors not more, and btw you can integrate it into PS as a plugin. Should it now end up that all creators have to go elsewhere with there poser creations jut because Renderosity has banned AI to raise up there Figure and textures to a higher level ? Sure we can take all this away from these forums, from renderosity but then it will just end up that the next level poser models will not be found here ending up on other stores.

For me it is also all new just like for you, what I have learned ( Enhancing Textures ) can't be undone and will be used on any future model I make to reach the 4 to 6k resolution on renders as the Poser figures and renders look soooo much better with the Improved textures ....

I sure respect your opinion, it is your choice, but I believe that many creators would find this method quiet useful

Only certain AI has been banned. If it's pure AI such as an image based on text, then it is not allowed. AI as part of an image enhancement is allowed.

Please see https://www.renderosity.com/article/27412/renderosity-updated-policy-for-ai-images-in-galleries for more information.

As long as the thread stays civil and productive, I'm not going to lock it. If it degenerates into the AI vs no AI debate that has been rehashed in several forums here, there would be no point in keeping the thread going.

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I use Poser 13 and win 10

Makes sense, RedPhantom, thank you.

Yes, Photoshop makes extensive use of their own AI. Not sure how implementing anything like that would even be feasible for Bondware in Poser without incurring a massive price increase, because dev costs for something like that are non trivial. Plus which, like I said, Photoshop already does it, and people use it for postwork a lot with Poser images already. How would this be different enough to justify?

In the sample showed above it is a standalone local, can be optionally integrated in Ps, Ps does not have this Ai feature atm. But sure a option leaving doors open to integrate into poser even if it would be as a Plugin, same aspect like support for Nvidia or Optix these are all integrations that keep the program ajour . Bondware also decided to offer support to the latest Gpu series witch actually perform the same objectives. ( Faster Better ) Now we get on a point where AI witch also is going to be a part of your GPU support. So what I'v done was actually a render of a 2d Texture, Picture, render, re rendering it using Local AI model templates, a little like a investigation of a pixeled face on a picture making it recognizable.

Basically it would not be allot more then to integrate a different Render engine or a optix support, an other way of rendering. You can't compare this with postworking it would clearly be enhancing, a little like the new enhancing features in poser for the final render that we already are having . so just imagine you load a model with 1000x1000 textures you render it 1000x1000 but your output is fully enhanced on 10'000x10'000, no noise no visible pixles, a secondary render that runs faster then your first run for the 10x larger output in just a few minutes.

Sure you can use this feature externally, no doubt about that, but making a program of great value and of more interest for users is the integration. Not really reliable if you need to say , Poser makes the basic render but if you wish having a professional output for printing you need another high end expensive Programm or even more then one.

with such a integration People would make a run for it and even pay a little more as it can be used professionally. Just imagine instead of the next release Poser 14 it would be called Poser-AI only the name would cause a huge interest ! Just a Intelligent AI built in enhancement.

I understand that it would not be easy as poser is mostly based on Open source there they would have to work a little on ....

Y-Phil posted at 11:27 AM Thu, 30 November 2023 - #4478383

JustBeCause posted at 8:16 AM Thu, 30 November 2023 - #4478365

Would you PLEASE stop publishing those......... "pictures" everywhere?

Ok I understand that the samples might be a little irritating. I passed a little more time setting up my machine for better Figure creations.

Here I have a Texture for a older poser light Bear Model that started way back. the original texture was 512 x 512 no way to get it on the today Standard

Original texture 512 x 512

Here is the New version that sure can be used now day's 6144 x 6144 AI enhancement ( Check in new window full size )

comparing a cutout of the eye section with traditional enlarging and the AI enlarging method for the 6144 x 6144 Texture

I guess this is a better sample making you understand what such features might bring for the future applied on a texture bringing your models on a way higher quality level.

JustBeCause posted at 1:50 PM Thu, 30 November 2023 - #4478391

...

Poser going to the next Cuda release has little to do with AI. It has everything to do with keeping up with the hardware sold. Just as it has Metal support now as well.

Putting all the AI in the world into the program would kill the content market, completely. You would not need that "blue dress with ruffles on the hem and a deep plunge cut on a voluptuous blonde blowing a kiss....", because the AI could do the entire scene from a blank preview....

You would not even need Poser, so what's the point. Just do it in the available AI and be done with it. You don't need Poser at all to do so.....

So.... What would be the point of killing the program to satisfy the AI falling sky people that insist it is the future and don't realize that most gpu's cant do AI off line....?

A 4090 struggles to run models as it is.... So there is that little thing the AI peeps never mention......

You cant add a feature to a program where you don't control the server doing the AI.....

Give it a rest already..........................

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

@ shvrdavid

For me no problem at all was just a suggestion making it more interesting for users with less experiences , Most of the things I need are already adapted and linked with poser if they are needed to make figure creations, Thanks to this thread tickling my curiosity I am already on the best way integrating this system into my poser system enhancing my workflow and quality of my creations.

I see that not much has changed in here and that there is little to almost no interest for any enhancements that could make modeling and rendering in poser better, rather a mentality of creators in here, I keep my dirty little secret for my self. This is rather causing that thing will not evolve.

My suggestion was never to replace the artist creativity with AI coincidental creations, in contrary. And btw like mentioned before all presented work has been done locally, not online, no Internet, not controlled by a server !

I have had many things added to Poser, and many things shot down that I suggested. And AI isn't going to happen anytime soon in Poser, or on your PC locally. Running Stable diffusion, etc, is no different than running any other program. Because it is only a program, and there is no AI in it, at all. Zip, nada.....

How people can not understand that, is beyond me..... Your not running Ai in your pc locally, or your phone, etc. That isn't possible because it doesn't have the processing power or the storage to sort the trillions of findings. Your running a small program, nothing more.

If you have suggestions for filters, things to improve workflow, etc, that's great............. Simply claiming AI will........ Is not...

Poser 13 already has things to clean up images, etc. And it even has things I asked for in there to do so.

Presentation is everything if you want something added to Poser, and I am telling you that because I have years of experience of getting things added to Poser.

You have to present things in a way programmers understand. You have to know what your talking about. And the Devs have to see a benefit in adding it without breaking the bank. The only thing you have really shown is cleaning up images. And Poser already has that in it. That will undoubtedly see improvements in the future. That also has nothing to do with AI, at all. Tensor cores (AI machine learning cores) are rarely used for filters of any kind, because that isn't what they do....Cuda and CPU cores are superior at filters and complex math. Using the GPU only to do something in a program presents a lot of issues your missing as well. Not everyone using Poser has a Nvidia GPU.... And no one on a Mac does, basically.....

Whatever gets added, has to work in all those cases.....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

Actually not that small ... 20gig for basic local usage, no need of a high end computer, not cheap ok, got to invest a little but worth doing so. AI yes, updates for a year on models "yes", then Pay again, what you need is space, render speed is about like using Poser or a little faster, Local yes, would take way longer getting each time this size of data online for one enhancement , way faster having it local, not based on filters else every other Photo app could generate such enlargements in this quality and speed. You give the algorithm for the Autopilot and you are set, make some adjustments in the AI for the amount all in real time if you do not like what the Autopilot has done. Save and done !

having years of experience has nothing to do with new possible features as these were not existent in these years of experience, it is a new learning curve that has nothing in common with the past.

Done for now, I payed the bill got the toy and use it on my future releases Locally, it will be covered by sales, this is the point, and loyal customers are hopefully happy campers getting enhanced quality models.

shvrdavid posted at 4:48 PM Thu, 30 November 2023 - #4478399

I have had many things added to Poser, and many things shot down that I suggested. And AI isn't going to happen anytime soon in Poser, or on your PC locally. Running Stable diffusion, etc, is no different than running any other program. Because it is only a program, and there is no AI in it, at all. Zip, nada.....
How people can not understand that, is beyond me..... Your not running Ai in your pc locally, or your phone, etc. That isn't possible because it doesn't have the processing power or the storage to sort the trillions of findings. Your running a small program, nothing more.
If you have suggestions for filters, things to improve workflow, etc, that's great............. Simply claiming AI will........ Is not...
Poser 13 already has things to clean up images, etc. And it even has things I asked for in there to do so.
Presentation is everything if you want something added to Poser, and I am telling you that because I have years of experience of getting things added to Poser.
You have to present things in a way programmers understand. You have to know what your talking about. And the Devs have to see a benefit in adding it without breaking the bank. The only thing you have really shown is cleaning up images. And Poser already has that in it. That will undoubtedly see improvements in the future. That also has nothing to do with AI, at all. Tensor cores (AI machine learning cores) are rarely used for filters of any kind, because that isn't what they do....Cuda and CPU cores are superior at filters and complex math. Using the GPU only to do something in a program presents a lot of issues your missing as well. Not everyone using Poser has a Nvidia GPU.... And no one on a Mac does, basically.....
Whatever gets added, has to work in all those cases.....

Saw the RedPhantoms post, so thought I would answer as long as it is productive, which I think ought to be possible, even if people disagree.

Whether it is true AI or not, it is referred to as generative AI, maybe they will create a better word for it someday.

Also I think the issue is a lot seem to judge it based on what they see now, rather than where things are heading, and also that these things take time to develop, so starting doing it in 10 years makes little sense.

There are lots of examples of how these AI's are starting to get integrated into programs like PS, Blender etc. And I think we can be sure that if they do it, then we will see it for all the other applications as well, like Unreal, Unity, 3ds max, Maya etc.

I won't link the Blender ones because they are quite technical and rather boring if one is not using an app like that.

But you can see some of the stuff they are working on here: Blender AI

That you say you struggle running AI with a 4090 I don't understand im running it fine on a 1080ti 12gb. But could even run it on my 1660 super with 6gb. Also I think we can be pretty sure that Nvidia etc will develop chips especially for AI at some point in the future, given the popularity of it.

I found this on Reddit, which you could say is extremely relevant for Renderosity:

Hello everyone, I’m Thanos, the Product Marketing Manager of CGTrader, a 3D content marketplace. I wanted to share CGDream.ai with you, a product utilizing SD models that we’ve been working on and recently launched, as I am seeking precious community feedback. What it does is blending 3D models with SD to create 2D visuals, offering users total control of their AI images. As it's still in beta, we're really keen to get your thoughts and feedback.

With CGDream you start with a 3D model from our library that will guide your AI generated visuals. This means you get to control your scene and your image, from the positioning and camera angle to the main subject and concept of the image. Guiding the AI with a 3D model also means that you always get the visuals you imagined, consistency in your image generations, and you can even use your own 3D models (upcoming feature) to generate visuals with them. We also made it super easy to use with no background in 3D needed.

Also it should be noted that 3D models used in CGDream.ai are not used for any kind of training, but merely used to guide the image generation. Currently, our 3D model library is limited, but we're actively working to expand it.

This is the list of features of CGDream.ai:

- 3D to image generation, a new way to generate images with 3D models with just some text prompts

- Numerous filters to choose from to give your images a distinct look and feel

- Our Dream function that uses AI to turn simple prompts into lively and exciting ones for even more interesting results

- Upcoming feature, the ability to upload your own 3D models to generate images

We're aware of some bugs, like login issues and queue display inconsistencies, and we're working to address these. Plus, we're planning a redesign and improving our mobile experience.

CGDream.ai is free to use and also offers a paid plan. I really want to hear from you. What do you think of its approach? How would you use it? Or even stumbled upon a bug or two? Drop your thoughts, questions, or any feedback you have from me. I'll be around to chat, answer questions, and soak up all your insights.

I appreciate all comments, feedback and opinions. Thank you.

------
This is a pure marketplace, yet they seem to have a completely different approach to what AI can be used for. And they don't even have a program like Poser. So again, these tools will pop up everywhere.

Then you have the 3d library that Stability is working on, which is an open source model with 10 million 3d objects in it.

objaverse-xl

And you can see a video here of it: Stable 3D

As written beneath the video, all the objects and scene were created in a few hours, so one can only imagine this once this technology gets improved and hardware better.

Well if anyone can come up with a feature to add to Poser that every Poser user can use on any hardware, I am all ears.

Like I said, AI is the new Turbo, and people slap it on everything. It amazes me that people don't understand the difference between an AI, and a simple API that the AI came up with that has nothing AI in it at all........... Even the Stable link above mentions that api's.............. That the AI created........ And there are already words to described it.....

This thread was started as a wish list for feature improvements, not spawning off a separate company to create a custom AI to write new api's for inclusion into Poser on a server stack that uses more electricity a day than the city you live in does. Who is paying for that?

At the end of the day, no one is adding someone else's api's to anything without permissions, licensing, etc. Which also seems to go right over peoples heads. The Stable link above has a link to the licensing section.... And that is because virtually none of the models will run on a desktop, let alone the AI that created the api's that wont even load into memory in any desktop........ There is pricing for the Stable Diffusion credits for a reason. Very little of what it does will not run on your desktop....... And what will, is slow as molasses in January......

Just remember, computers have not put paint and pencils out of business. And if your going to use CGDream, you won't even need Poser or any other 3d program either..

People have also left out a very important point in all of this, and they avoid it like the plague.

Every image you post to Rendo that you created in Poser, Studio, your camera, drew, painted, etc.... Is yours, you own the copyright to it by default. You could have limited usage rights depending on the content you used, but it is your image.

Any image created using AI, in any step, is not copyrightable, meaning you don't own it or the rights to even post it here where the TOS says you can only post images you hold the rights too.. Most people ignore that, and that includes everyone that ever posted an image here that used AI to create it.....

Do you really want to do that to your Poser images? Or should I say, are you willing want to violate the TOS just to have an api that removes any chance of a copyright?

It is a slippery slope, and I am not sure if tying a program to it on that slope, is such a good idea either.

I get that people want cool stuff, but I also get the other side of it as well....

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

How are MJ able to provide the service they do? People pay a monthly fee or they buy credits to use the service X amount of times. Obviously, this is because they are running the servers.

But these things can run locally, I don't know why you say they can't? They do it in Blender, I do it (not 3d, but have the extension, but haven't played around with it that much, but have generated some 3d models and it took a few minutes), besides that, people train their own models locally as well, which also takes a bit of time and they make videos which is also a heavy task. Sure some prefer paying for some external tool because it is faster, but that is not the same as saying that it is impossible to run locally.

Renderosity is free to develop their own features, they don't have to buy them.

Just remember, computers have not put paint and pencils out of business. And if your going to use CGDream, you won't even need Poser or any other 3d program either..

I have no clue where all this is going to end up, it might be possible that simply generating 2d images is so effective that 3d isn't used as it is today. If you can generate an awesome-looking Hollywood quality movie without any 3d or After effects. I think there is a good chance that people will do that. But all this is extremely new, so it is also possible that new uses for 3d will emerge or it will simply be used in a different type of workflow than now. So sure, it is a possibility, but again the fact is that things are changing and the stuff people do now simply with generative AI is insane. Stuff that would take months to do, like a video, takes a few hours now, there are quality issues.

I don't have a solution or answer to it, because things are going so fast with new tools and improvements popping up almost daily.

Do you really want to do that to your Poser images? Or should I say, are you willing want to violate the TOS just to have an api that removes any chance of a copyright?

The truth is that I don't think the majority of people care about it that much when it is AI-generated, because you generate so many images anyway, so you might generate 100s of images and like 2-3 of them and you are not going to sell them anyway. There are lots of AI art sites filled with images already, the amount of images generated each day after AI was released is insane.

And if Poser should add AI features whatever they might be, they might have to update their policies, but that is a small change compared to being left behind by all the other companies. I follow along with all these things and see people posting 100s of images each day and I am yet to see anyone complain or even mention that it is an issue or even see people trying to copy each other, people are just having fun. I have seen one case (assume there are more) where someone has use AI to copy someone's actual handcrafted art and tried selling it, and the reaction from those using AI, was that it is wrong. But you will always have people that will do stuff like that, there is also a chance that someone downloads an image from the gallery and posts it somewhere else as if it was their own, or they buy a product here and sell it somewhere else, or download one from a free site and just turn it into a product.

I don't think there is any real solution to this when you are talking digital stuff, then people can exploit it. You even have AI tools now that can remove the watermarks from Stock images at the cost of some quality etc.

This is personal obviously, but I don't consider the stuff I make to be art as much as a learning process and something I do because I think it is fun, and if someone "stole" them I honestly wouldn't care. I wouldn't feel the same with my products, because I spend a lot of time on them and their purpose is different than creating an image, again I don't consider myself an artist, so I could understand how someone doing that would feel differently. But I will say that if 3d generative AI becomes so good that you can generate high-quality objects then I wouldn't care if someone used those I made, simply because it is so easy to do and pointless trying to consider such a thing unique. It is the same with all the images that people generate, you can generate 100s of images in 30-60 minutes, so who cares if someone uses them.

And this is also what I mean with things changing, it is not only Poser users it is whole industries that are going to change. As shown in a post above with music, ChatGPT is being integrated as support bots, translation tasks, people using them to generate all kinds of texts, replies you name it. The only limit is really human imagination it seems. Even within programming, there are huge changes going on. I think the Q* is almost confirmed now, which means that it will get even crazier soon when AI starts to become better at math as well, which is going to have a serious impact on how we do things and it will probably also impact the 2d/3d area even more than now. I don't think anyone knows where these things are going, except that it is going very fast.

This I think is insane:

Animate anyone

Paper:

https://humanaigc.github.io/animate-anyone/

Sigh.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

3D-Mobster posted at 8:43 PM Thu, 30 November 2023 - #4478408

....

I hear what your saying, but like I said, businesses have to do what they think is right, what they can afford, and what is legal. While you may not care about the legalities of things, many others do care.

You still seem to be missing the point of much of what I am saying. Yes, you can run the algorithms, the api's, that AI creates to do many things on a Raspberry Pi. But if you saw how fast AI actually runs on a server you would realize how far what you are talking about is behind. I have a 4070ti, which is one of the fastest cards Nvidia makes, and it struggles to run the simplest true AI models. I know that because I have tried a few of them that interested me. I even tested one. They crush the fastest Nvidia cards made, and I don't think you understand that at all. You need hundreds of them pooled into a VM to do any AI or Machine learning development at any competitive pace. So for Poser to develop its own stuff, where are they going to get that? And how are they going to pay for it?

Google has already spent 200 billion....... 200 billion over 10+ years, just on AI.... And what they spend goes up every year exponentially. Adobe just raised another 65 million to continue developments, within one year......

One thing you are right about, is this is new to most people. But as far as where it is going to go is conjecture to the extreme, here, and everywhere else.

Most that invest in AI will fail, just like every other new thing. That is one thing you can be certain of.

Yes, it would be nice to have all these cool tools. But at what cost, and worse yet, the cost of failure.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

People.. You are asking to turn a car into an aeroplane.. Let the people who make aeroplanes, make aeroplanes, and leave the cars be cars. How about suggestions to make Poser a better car instead of turning it into something else?

Im not saying that I don't care about what is legal and obviously, Renderosity should care also, but Blender, PS, MJ, CGtrader etc. all have to deal with these things as well, so I don't see it being unique for Renderosity.

And I think, things are getting mixed up here, im not suggesting that Renderosity should develop their own AI as those huge companies have, I agree that would be absurd.

But these smaller companies and even individuals are creating tools to be used with AI. If you look at a lot of these extensions for SD that are being developed by small open-source teams or individuals and then people can install them locally and use them to train models, create videos and images.

And I don't see why Renderosity couldn't benefit from tools like that as well. If you look at the rigging tool for characters that I showed in some of the videos, it would be pretty cool if you could rig like that in Poser rather than how it is now where it is a fairly complex task. Rigging in general takes a long time so being able to automate this would be pretty nice, even if it took 20-30 minutes it would still be faster than doing it by hand.

Like JustBeCause that have found a use for it with textures.

I agree that a lot of these things probably won't make it, but I think it is more likely that they will fail due to competition and that some companies will be able to deliver better applications than others as it have always been. And I think that could be said with Poser as well if they insist on maintaining the old ways, rather than keeping up with new technologies and what the other companies are doing. So it goes both ways, if Poser gets too outdated in its workflow and users can simply use another software to generate the images they like much easier and faster, that would be devastating for Poser as well.

So im not saying that Poser will automatically fail if it doesn't, but looking at how people use software in general, they tend to use those that they think solve their needs the best and fastest, and that software that gets to outdated simply fails.

But so far Poser has lived off being easy to use. You can't compare the complexity of Blender or 3ds Max to that of Poser It is a massive learning curve and therefore it is appealing to a lot of people. But most people can within hours figure out how to generate high-quality images using generative AI, which could potentially take weeks if not months to make for a professional artist. So the barrier between complexity and quality is being removed so to speak.

And if you look at the service that CGtrader is doing with AI, it is basically what I did with V4 and SD above, they simply seem to aim at making this into a service that is easy to use and most likely further develop it. Will it fail? Maybe who knows, or it might give them an edge over the other marketplaces.

The chance is also that a new Poser-like program arrive that only uses simple 3d geometry and generative AI, we are seeing that slowly emerge in Blender, yet still in its infancy and not very good at the moment.

But things are a lot more complicated now than they were before because you can generate 3d objects anywhere and use them in whatever program. Poser will have to face these issues at some point no matter what, it might not matter or it could have a huge impact, not only on Poser but also all the content creators. Just as they have to face the fact that you can generate high-quality 2d images, which is probably a competition they didn't expect. There has always been kind of a split between 2D, photography and 3D, all requiring a huge amount of effort and skills, which has vanished if what you are after is simply the image. You no longer have to go through all the problems using a 3D program or having to draw it.

DreaminGirl posted at 4:58 AM Fri, 1 December 2023 - #4478416

People.. You are asking to turn a car into an aeroplane.. Let the people who make aeroplanes, make aeroplanes, and leave the cars be cars. How about suggestions to make Poser a better car instead of turning it into something else?

That is the intention to make Poser better at cars, its not about turning it into something else. Wouldn't you think it would be cool if you could finally get realistic dynamic looking hair in images?

Cool effects added to them, like wet surface, snowy surfaces, fog, fire etc. without having to spend hours rendering one image only to see that it looks wrong.

Tools for easier rigging, animation, lighting etc.

I just think it is wrong to suggest that Renderosity should just throw in the towel on these potentials and whether they could make Poser a better software, they still have to spend time developing other features anyway, this wouldn't stop regardless, so they might as well spend the time seeing if there are some potential in AI that could be beneficial.

Rhia474 posted at 10:13 AM Thu, 30 November 2023 - #4478379

Renderosity, the owner of Poser, has banned AI here, for reasons Afrodite-Ohki summed up succinctly earlier in this thread. I highly doubt that they:
1. would entertain including any of its iterations in their software and
2. Would not lock this thread or even delete it if people continue to insist on the inclusion of it.

As this is the forum of a private enterprise, I am inclined to respect their rules.

Yeah, Its the Streisand effect, the more peeps are dissuaded, the more the interest it heightened. AI, AI, AI...whether actually intelligent or artificial it is the method that aggravates. Shifting the artistic decisions to network intelligence may create hominization in design ref: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23674696/chatgpt-ai-creativity-originality-homogenization

A LIST OF FEATURE SUGGESTIONS by the users should be specified by CAPABILITY and use case example, not the means of how its accomplished. The means (including level of AI implemented) should be left to the dev engineers.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Poser feature dev & improvement wishlist