I've read some hints that it is coming soon.  Any word ... on this?  Poser fanatics want to know!!

Boni

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"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

https://www.posersoftware.com/article/659/announcing-poser-132-release Says they’re going to start on 14 in 2024. Not sure how long it takes to do. The article also says more information should be coming soon 

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Ah, That's where I read that!!  Coming months.  Gives a little insight. :)

Boni

---

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

We are loving creating in Poser 13.2 
More details on Poser 14 were released in this weeks newsletter https://www.posersoftware.com/article/689/poser-13-savings-poser-14-development-update

I just saw that post. Sounds promising.

The dev team has identified the following focus areas for Poser 14:

 

• Replacing venerable Cg shaders with GLSL shaders for Poser Preview
• Adding Subscription Option in Addition to Perpetual Licenses
• Revisiting Cloth Simulation Library/UI
• Revisiting Lip Sync Library/UI
• Tesselation for Better Morph/Weight Copy
• Incremental Steps Toward Unimesh
• Other smaller features and bug fixes

Better preview would be great. Subscription option...I guess that means the phone home thing isn't going away.  :-P

Seems  like unimesh is proving to be more difficult than they thought. Didn't they announce it would be included in Poser 13?

I'm looking forward to seeing what the cloth room changes will be. And I'm always interested in what's included in the "other smaller features". Some of my favorite improvements come from there, like the improved hierarchy menu and other lists and the inclusion of some of the missing cycles nodes. 

And a better preview would be nice, unless it slows everything but the most powerful computers to a crawl. I only just recently got a computer that can handle having the preview shaders displayed.

Unimesh (not the Daz gen 4 unimesh) was planned to be in 13 but they weren't able to implement it.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

This is what my current Poser 11 preview looks like:

I maxxed out preview shadows and preview texture size. And use some "preview friendly" lights. (Once you found a basic set-up that works, it's easy to build on that)

Basically the final render adds better, more complete shadows, multi layer transparency for the hair, subsurface scattering, (real) displacement, some (subtle) skin-shader "magic", and of course subdivision / HD-Morphing if necessary.

(The preview can display subdivision, too, but it can quickly slow down your machine. Especially if you need to to do lots of subdivision because the render engine of your choice can't do "proper" displacement)  ;-)

I only use well designed meshes, so I have not much need for subdivision, anyway.

(Thats 21 year old Stephanie 1, AKA "The Mystery Mesh", BTW: Mesh from my mesh)

*

Seriously, I would be pleasantly surprised if Poser 14 could do better, but somehow I doubt it. They probably try to improve the horrible, horrible Superfly preview, while probably messing up the current Firefly preview.

And they'll probably find some other legacy functionality they can mess up or disable while doing so.

My conclusion:

I treat Poser 12 and 13 (and Poser 14) like Ghostbusters (2016) or Star Trek's Kelvin Timeline.

Just pretend it was a bad dream and never really happened.  ;-P

I went back to Poser 11, back to simple but well designed meshes, and back to making the most of what I have and what I spent 23 years to learn inside and out.

KI already has made any "hand-crafted" computer graphics completely obsolete.

Rendo's Marketplace is 99,9% Genesis, but DAZ will very soon feel the repercussions, too.

Who in their right mind would want to mess with rigging and sculpting and shaders and hour long render times if he can directly animate a photograph of an actual human being?

'

Anyway, have fun getting all exited over "new and improved" Poser 14.

I'm too busy playing with Vicky 1 and Posette.

:-)

I skipped Poser 12 and 13 for their tiny upgrade values, after Poser 11 just p*ssed already me off for the same reason.
Maybe Poser 14 could count as a full upgrade from Poser Pro 2024.
Quote:
"Other smaller features and bug fixes"
Can anybody tell them, an upgrade is not for fixing bugs? That's what updates are for.

Quote:
"Rendo's Marketplace is 99,9% Genesis, but DAZ will very soon feel the repercussions, too." Very true. Poser once got run over by DAZ Studio, and now DAZ Studio itself is much likely to be run over by IClone and Character Creator. "Those, who are late, will be punished by life." Gorbatschov

Yes, it's Superfly preview I would like to see improved. SF materials often don't look the same at all once rendered.

Usually, I have hardware shaders turned off so this is what my preview looks like

If I turn it on, it becomes this

And everything that's not set up for superfly glows. And it's not just the skin shaders. I'd love to see reflections work in preview, doesn't matter if it's firefly or superfly, neither work in preview and it makes setting up mirrors to show the correct thing difficult.

And even without the advances in superfly, I wouldn't want to give up Poser 13. There are so many little tweaks that improve the use of the program, it feels cumbersome when I go back to 11.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Poser 14 already? I saw the newsletter mention this to my disbelief as I only got Poser 13 near the end of last year.

Oh well, as long as a displacement for Poser Surface nodes and Physical nodes are all good in a Poser 13 update sometime soon, I won't complain. It's not like I'm being forced to buy every Poser version... it has just worked out that way so far.

Poser scripts by Snarlygribbly

Please, please, please, give us a decent Superfly displacement that works without subdividing the everloving sn*t out of the mesh. I miss fur and decent brocade. Thank you.

Rhia474 posted at 4:57 PM Sat, 20 January 2024 - #4480622

Please, please, please, give us a decent Superfly displacement that works without subdividing the everloving sn*t out of the mesh. I miss fur and decent brocade. Thank you.

Forever seconded.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

JoePublic posted at 1:42 PM Sat, 20 January 2024 - #4480601

Who in their right mind would want to mess with rigging and sculpting and shaders and hour long render times if he can directly animate a photograph of an actual human being?

Where's the fun in that?
Greetings

RedPhantom posted at 3:38 PM Sat, 20 January 2024 - #4480616

Usually, I have hardware shaders turned off so this is what my preview looks like

Same thing for me, except that the lazy me preferred to write a small script to switch between Firefly and Superfly as current default render.
In addition, I keep both material settings, the switch let me guess what it will looks like

Not perfect but still manageable, except when I forget to switch back to Superfly at render time... 

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

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(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

Nevertrumper posted at 3:16 PM Sat, 20 January 2024 - #4480612

I skipped Poser 12 and 13 for their tiny upgrade values, after Poser 11 just p*ssed already me off for the same reason.
Maybe Poser 14 could count as a full upgrade from Poser Pro 2024.
Quote:
"Other smaller features and bug fixes"
Can anybody tell them, an upgrade is not for fixing bugs? That's what updates are for.

Quote:
"Rendo's Marketplace is 99,9% Genesis, but DAZ will very soon feel the repercussions, too." Very true. Poser once got run over by DAZ Studio, and now DAZ Studio itself is much likely to be run over by IClone and Character Creator. "Those, who are late, will be punished by life." Gorbatschov

Yep generally in software project management versions are set by marketing as new capabilities/changes in scope while interim releases are scoped by developers to fix/improve an existing capability, efficiency and stability based on QA testing and user feedback.    Its not set in stone, version features are the merchandisable component of the software and therefore specified by marketing.

I think the list of new capabilities since P11 is rather impressive, frankly its about as much as the competition has produced.  Much of the industry has been grappling with platform and business model transition, at least Bondware has not gone subscription or thrown the baby out with bathwater post acquisition as did much of the industry.   Even DS which is one of the few 3d applications that has not changed hands stagnated somewhat and only - what went from 4.5 to 4.9 with rather little substantive improvements.  

Meanwhile the Bondware Poser team added this sweeping list since the acquisition:

• Content automatic installation of all included content, including legacy content.

• New version of SuperFly render engine based on Blender's Cycles 1.12, new shadow catcher, background transparency and Adaptive Sampling.

• Nvidia Optix support

• Intel OIDN denoising system.

• Python 3 scripting.

• Material Management tab.

• Content type icons on library thumbnails.

• Post Render FX options for rendered images including: denoise, exposure, saturation, gamma, brightness, contrast, bloom, blur and pixelate.

• Animation create panel now to include Audio Track option and ability to save output to new subfolder.

• GPU rendering with your LAN render farm

• Poser startup panel scene and template launcher

• Walk Designer and Talk Designer updated for latest figure compatibility.

• HDRI environment rendering for SuperFly.

• HDRI environment support in shadow catcher including 360 spherical

• Morph and weight map copying enhancements.

• Integrated Poser/Renderosity Store purchase library

• Searchable HTML Help system & full PDF version of the manual

@ dreamcutter: thank you for the list, when you look at it like that it should be an eye opener for many.

Where Poser falls short right now is content. Look at the other software's store: I want decent fantasy clothing with detailed armor and not much skin, check. Do I want fantasy with skin, check. Do I want sci-fi armor and critters, check. Do I want monsters,  check. Do I want great props with details and different shaders,  check. Do I want to import figures from a game and render them? Check. 

Now check the Poser store for the same. For its own figures.

If Poser' s owner wishes to move in a different direction with what content it commissions, distributes etc., that's their privilege. But it will lose despite the fact that the software itself is better. 

A large part of it also will be how their Poser content is presented and marketed in sharp contrast to the other side of the store.

Content marketing should get a bit less anemic whi.le the software is improved.

I used Poser since oh, let's see, 2007 or so I think, so while not as experienced as other here, i am a purely end user and want to see it succeed.

That is a very short and incomplete list of things added since Bondware bought Poser......

---

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->

Agreed, a broader and deeper content selection would be great for Poser, however it actually does have a very robust and easy figure creation capability as some of its greatest hinderance has been resolved since P12 (save figure with option to either preserve/overwrite geometry).  I forgot that very important feature in the above list.  Anyways combined with its pioneering SM legacy and the continued stake by user$ and Bondware in Poser development will be a signal to 3d content creators that Poser will be here for the long term.  Who knows how long DAZ can support development without charging for Studio or overcharging for content, skimpware can only take you so far.

Rhia474 posted at 4:57 PM Sat, 20 January 2024 - #4480622

Please, please, please, give us a decent Superfly displacement that works without subdividing the everloving sn*t out of the mesh. I miss fur and decent brocade. Thank you.

That would have to be implemented in Cycles first, so it's mostly out of the hands of the Poser team.

For fur, I think fiber primitives would be much better than displacement, so that's basically strand-based/dynamic hair territory. I haven't played with that stuff for ages, so I'm not sure how hard it would be with the current Poser to add nice strand-based fur to a character or item of clothing. But anyway, making hair/fur and similar features work better in Poser would be a separate feature request.

For things like brocade, adaptive subdivision might help a bit, which Cycles seems to support, but last I looked it was flagged as an "experimental feature". If I understand correctly, that means the amount of subdivision that's actually applied to an object for rendering will depend on how close it is to the camera.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.

Furred Critters are technically easy, but it's quite a lot of work to set up the hair parts correctly.

This is Tiny's furred MilCat:

And some variations:

A kitten sculpted by me

And a Lynx created by Lyne's Creations:

dreamcutter posted at 6:08 PM Sun, 21 January 2024 - #4480653

Who knows how long DAZ can support development without charging for Studio or overcharging for content, skimpware can only take you so far.

I don’t think you’ll have to worry about them charging for Studio since they already tried that. DAZ Studio 3 Advanced was their paid version that they locked features like 64-Bit support behind. Was a flop and it’s all free since then. That’s how DAZ burnt me, that much needed 64-Bit was coming soon for the Mac version and they never released it. So don’t know what the heck I paid for in the end.

Poser scripts by Snarlygribbly

CobraBlade posted at 7:41 PM Sun, 21 January 2024 - #4480656

dreamcutter posted at 6:08 PM Sun, 21 January 2024 - #4480653

Who knows how long DAZ can support development without charging for Studio or overcharging for content, skimpware can only take you so far.

I don’t think you’ll have to worry about them charging for Studio since they already tried that. DAZ Studio 3 Advanced was their paid version that they locked features like 64-Bit support behind. Was a flop and it’s all free since then. That’s how DAZ burnt me, that much needed 64-Bit was coming soon for the Mac version and they never released it. So don’t know what the heck I paid for in the end.

I think it is understandable that people are generally reluctant to pay for something that was free no matter how many new bells as whistles are added.  We have a prime example here in the UK, some years ago the furniture industry started to offer sofas and chairs for a really low price, the idea caught on and now most manufacturers have to build down to a price to get any sort of market share.   Low prices have now become the accepted norm.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I love working with Poser 13 and I now have Poser 13.2 which is very different from the versions of Poser I have used in the past.  About 5 years ago I had a windfall and used some of the cash to build my ideal Poser machine but even with that renders could take three to fours hours to complete.  These days few of my renders go as far as an hour and that is using a mini-PC that cost a tenth of the price of my bespoke unit.  Not only that but the quality of the renders out strips any of the renders I was doing on my expensive custom built machine.

To my mind Bondware have done a remarkable job of improving what SM left them and I shudder to think what Poser would look like now if SM had remained in charge.  I can't wait to see what this new team can come up with when they have the freedom of delving a lot deeper to build a new version of Poser rather than an update.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

CobraBlade posted at 7:41 PM Sun, 21 January 2024 - #4480656

dreamcutter posted at 6:08 PM Sun, 21 January 2024 - #4480653

Who knows how long DAZ can support development without charging for Studio or overcharging for content, skimpware can only take you so far.

I don’t think you’ll have to worry about them charging for Studio since they already tried that. DAZ Studio 3 Advanced was their paid version that they locked features like 64-Bit support behind. Was a flop and it’s all free since then. That’s how DAZ burnt me, that much needed 64-Bit was coming soon for the Mac version and they never released it. So don’t know what the heck I paid for in the end.

Yes, and the reverse can happen when a paid product is released free. I recall feeling burned after investing approx $250 in DS4 Pro (Pro having content creation enabled), to soon find teh DS4 Pro released as the free edition because of the 32/64bit unrest.  The only feature from DS4 Pro paid that did not make the free version was the poly decimator - I think it was a licensed technology sold as a add-on module now.  To the stores credit, they did compensate paid DS4 pro users with credit.  But when DS4 went free, I had a feeling development would halt.  It didnt, lots of updates since but I think its still DS4 BETA (IDK, been awhile).

Better dynamic hair would probably be first on my list. (Including shaders that look good in Superfly, though I guess that might take forever to render.)

I love Tiny's furry cats, but I know it took him a lot of work to set them up. I don't know why, but dynamic hair tends to have "strays" that ruin the render. Tiny tried to explain what the problem is -- something about strands at the edges of polygons or something -- but I've never been able to fix it myself, except with postwork.

Dynamic hair actually renders faster than transmapped hair, especially the stuff with more layers.

Don't know what you mean by strays. I can think of a few different things with different causes and fixes.

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

By "strays," I mean random hairs that don't appear to be attached to anything, but if you delete them, all the hair in the group disappears. I'll see if I can find an example.

This is what I'm talking about. The dynamic hair is grown on primitives hidden inside the head. But there are "strays" not connected to the object they are growing on.

I talked to Tiny about it years ago. It was a problem he encountered while creating his furry cats. He said it had something to do with strands at the edge of polys, or something like that. I think he fixed it by making sure there were no strands at certain places.

I was afraid that was the one you were talking about. That's some kind of bug where the hair group gets corrupted. And once it gets corrupted, you can't fix it, you can only redo/replace it

---

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Rhia474 posted at 10:23 AM Sun, 21 January 2024 - #4480639

@ dreamcutter: thank you for the list, when you look at it like that it should be an eye opener for many.

Where Poser falls short right now is content. Look at the other software's store: I want decent fantasy clothing with detailed armor and not much skin, check. Do I want fantasy with skin, check. Do I want sci-fi armor and critters, check. Do I want monsters,  check. Do I want great props with details and different shaders,  check. Do I want to import figures from a game and render them? Check. 

Now check the Poser store for the same. For its own figures.

If Poser' s owner wishes to move in a different direction with what content it commissions, distributes etc., that's their privilege. But it will lose despite the fact that the software itself is better. 

A large part of it also will be how their Poser content is presented and marketed in sharp contrast to the other side of the store.

Content marketing should get a bit less anemic whi.le the software is improved.

I used Poser since oh, let's see, 2007 or so I think, so while not as experienced as other here, i am a purely end user and want to see it succeed.

This. This many times over. I have refused to upgrade from Poser 11 simply because the contents just DOES NOT exist. I feel envious of all the contents available for DS, yet most of what Poser gets is loads of girl clothes time and time again. I really wish Poser creators would look into what is available for Daz (as Rhia474 mentioned) and try to do similar.

And someone please consider adding full multi-core support to the entire program rather than just rendering. Moving the cameras when building a scene with lots of characters quickly becomes an exercise in frustration.

The problem with having content is who is gonna make it. There aren't a lot of us Poser content creators left. Though I see some new ones, which excites me....

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

That is what worries me. Why is Poser not attracting content makers any more? Is it something much more difficult to create for than the other program? If you look even on this marketplace,  the difference is staggering. I would like to understand why, because without content the future is grim.

Rhia474 posted at 4:00 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481081

That is what worries me. Why is Poser not attracting content makers any more? Is it something much more difficult to create for than the other program? If you look even on this marketplace,  the difference is staggering. I would like to understand why, because without content the future is grim.

The main reason is probably the fact that if you didn't have the tools prior, you are not going to get them now. Poser file editor, Netherworks scripts, etc, all gone..... Having to edit basically everything Poser saves to put it up for sale is another problem. A problem that Poser, self created.... Almost all of the sites that explain the files structures, etc, are gone as well. The ones that are left took it upon themselves to delete much of it in the past, which didn't help matters a bit.....

Sure you can use notepad++ to edit and change Poser files.... You can also paint your car with a brush, but that is not very efficient......................

Then there is the issue of groups of people claiming the will buy something if it is made, then basically no one buy's it after it is released. Vendors can see that, very easily...

You can only do that to a vendor so many times before they make a change. Most of the vendors I have known over the years don't make content at all anymore, for various reasons. Vendors will only make what sells, what is easy for them to make. 

This is just the tip of the iceberg why that is the case. Only Poser can make Content King again.... 

---

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->

So content creation tools are what would help? Or content creation manuals?

I was wondering. How is it easier on the other side? Is there a better way, better documentation of the process? There must be a way why a lot of creators who used to create for Poser now only create for the other software.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 6:17 PM Sat, 20 January 2024 - #4480625

Rhia474 posted at 4:57 PM Sat, 20 January 2024 - #4480622

Please, please, please, give us a decent Superfly displacement that works without subdividing the everloving sn*t out of the mesh. I miss fur and decent brocade. Thank you.

Forever seconded.

It's my understanding that ray trace renderers like SuperFly and IRay HAVE to use subdivision for displacement. Forgive me for not explaining why, my old brain can't grok it. I tried to find an article that might explain in laymen's terms but haven't had a lot of luck. Most of them are for academics, not for us every day type users.  Hopefully someone with a better brain than mine can explain it so it makes sense. LOL

Rhia474 posted at 4:00 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481081

That is what worries me. Why is Poser not attracting content makers any more? Is it something much more difficult to create for than the other program? If you look even on this marketplace,  the difference is staggering. I would like to understand why, because without content the future is grim.

Long story short:  Unimesh support. Poser needs it, and adding unimesh support in Poser will alleviate many of the content creation snags that are associated with needing actor groups, and which make content creation for Poser take longer than it does in DAZ Studio.

And by "Unimesh", I don't mean "DAZ Genesis Unimesh" support, I mean in Poser's core, all posing figures are dependent on individual actor groups. DAZ Studio works differently. 

Here's a big example. When you save a rigged figure (CR2) to the Poser library, Poser creates an OBJ file in the same location as the CR2 file. If you open this OBJ up in a modeler, you'll find that it is split apart at the body part groups. This later presents a challenge if you want to morph an OBJ file that is split apart at the seams, because they aren't welded. THe other problem is, some third party apps, such as zbrush, weld the OBJ together which will make a morph useless because the vertex count is different. Because DAZ uses "unified meshes" (AKA unimeshes) that don't rely on individual body part groups, you don't have this issue when you save a character to the library.

So, to work around that, what I usually do is the first time I save the CR2, at least for clothihng, is that I open the split apart OBJ in a modeler, and weld all of the seams together. Then duplicate vertices have to be deleted as well. After I clean the OBJ up, I change the two references in the CR2 to point to the cleaned up object, which I usually put in the Geometries folder for safekeeping. Then I reload that "good" CR2 into the scene, conform to the figure, and copy the morphs and joint parameters from the figure to the clothing.

It's a bunch of little things like this that eventually add up over time and make it take longer to create clothing for Poser vs DAZ Studio. 

The other alternative is to take your original ungrouped clothing OBJ into Mark DC's Auto Group Editor and copy groups from figure to clothing. It will still be welded but will have the groups. Then point the CR2 to that welded OBJ with groups.

Appreciate the deep explanation here, sounds like unimesh will absolutely be crucial as  many suggested.

I am still a bit flabbergasted that there are no good process descriptions for how to create co tent for Poser that are available for the beginner/ public.

It is the lack of tools, the procedures, and the claims unimesh will magically fix it in the future.

Unimesh is not going to change much. I'm sorry, it is not... It changed very little in any program that added it, at first. Unity, Blender, etc, etc, etc.... Adding unimesh to those programs did not fix the tools in the program, in any way.... It made it far worse until corrected.... At this point, all it will do is add another system where everything uses the same toolset already there. Adding unimesh support will not address making content, period. Adding unimesh and then adding everything content creators ask for years, might.....

People have asked for years for these thing to be addressed, and not just content creators. We have gotten some of the things asked for, but at the same time it is still miles from what you don't have to do in other programs when making content. 

I can't tell you the last time I had to edit any Studio content I helped with. I have to edit every text file Poser spits out, every one of them. Yes you can batch edit some of it, but at the same time you could code it so that was not the case at all.... A lot of it can not be batch edited, and turns people off from making that type of content. There used to be tools to do some of this automatically, scripts, PFE, etc. Now that there are none available and Python broke all the scripts, it is all manual unless you have the programs and an old version of Poser 11 that doesn't know how to do everything in the current version....

I'm sorry, I am very tired of the UNIMESH SUPPORT WILL FIX EVERYTHING.... We can't even get the support on what we have now.... What makes you think we will magically get it with unimesh.... Some high end Autodesk programs don't have unimesh support... That is how important unimesh is......

I do my best to get things changed, added, updated, etc. But there is little I can do when the Unimesh kool-aid is served up as a reason for not having the tools and proper saves for content creation......

---

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->

Some of the difficulty here is "unimesh" is a broad term and everyone interprets it differently.

So in my case, here's my "interpretation."

What I mean by "unimesh" is ... if I start with a piece of clothing that does not have groups, and I bring it into Poser to create a conformer that follows the pose of the figure, I want the end result to have the same vertex count and vertex order as the OBJ file that went in in the first place. 

No breaking apart into body part groups in ANY case of resaving or exporting the OBJ so that morphs don't explode. No needing to manually edit the file path, get prompted to save the location of the OBJ file so it doesn't later get accidentally overwritten. 

I don't care how it gets there or what it is called internally, that's basically all I want to see in whatever "unimesh" ends up being or however that is implemented. That's all. 8-)

So... sigh. What I am hearing as an end user here is... no hope for more decent  content anytime soon because creators don't like creating for Poser as it is too complicated and no in-sight fixes for the process of creating?

Not having working scripts for processes that had scripts for earlier versions is an ongoing gripe of mine and am still not understanding why older scripts cannot be rewritten.

This program lingered for so long in development limbo, and it still seems like it's not a hundred percent supported. I am reaching the point where I almost never buy new content but older ones that need shader rework but at least are made well and are solid. New content made for Poser is very rarely in the genres I work with.

I know new content is made, but... who buys it? And is that Poser's future direction?

One of the biggest issues with old scripts are the rights to them. If they were not released as creative commons, gpl, MIT license, etc. People can not just re write them and publish them if they were not released that way. Some of the people that wrote them quit, some died, and very few have taken their place. And if those rights went with them, they are gone and can not simply be re written to Python 3.7.9.

It now appears to come down to what Poser does to help the content for Poser, since others have given up doing so for them.

Content was going to be King, remember that? Now is the time to actually show that..

---

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->

Gotcha, yes, I remember well.

shvrdavid posted at 10:24 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481117

One of the biggest issues with old scripts are the rights to them. If they were not released as creative commons, gpl, MIT license, etc. People can not just re write them and publish them if they were not released that way. 

I'm still wondering. I mean..

If the original copyrights owner is dead and nobody legally acquired them, then it should be authorized to upgrade them to an environment in which it will never run, as that would means "no unfair competition".
Same for people's code still alive but that clearly refuse to port their gem to a new environment: protected against taking ownership under Python2 is clearly ok, but we are  in a new world: Python3

And I'm clearly thinking to a real upgrade, not just adapting the existing code. Especially that I now know that I will retire in a few months, I will have enough time to do this.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

---

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

Even if rights allow, the job of updating a script is difficult to plan or schedule. You do not know until you start whether the job is easy or tedious. A wide range of programming styles, was applied and some appear even obfuscated by design.

Then, it is not just the Python version. Also changes in OS environment and Poser organisation are to be catered for. Writing user data in the Program Files folder are a big NONO now. The capabilities of Poser have enhanced greatly over time and a lot of the hoops that had to be carefully jumped at the time are now not needed anymore, or the functions are provided natively in Poser.

No surprise there's little interest to do an update job.

I've acquired a lot of budget 'fantasy' wear and accessories from eg Xurge, though mostly for M3/V3 & M4/V4...

I find many free 'Fantasy / SciFi' props, scene-sets and pre-clad, rigged figures / monsters on eg DA and BowlRoll, albeit in XPS, FBX, PMX or SFM format. As Poser_11 can usually manage to import FBX --I'm told _13 is better-- converting to OBJ props or rigged FBX from such 'native' formats via eg free XNA/Lara and free Noesis can supply a  lot of useful stuff. Downside, a clad FBX figure often arrives as many subsidiary rigs. Some will be clothing or hair options, safely deleted. The rest must be promptly parented to first / primary rig lest over-cluttered Poser Hierarchy 'falls over'. Oh, and if FBX does not correctly (*) auto-load materials, that's your evening gone...

*)  Pathing can be problematic: FBX permits both absolute and relative calls to material textures; If absent, set to artist's X: drive and/or deep, deep into folder tree, Ick... 

FVerbaas posted at 2:32 AM Fri, 2 February 2024 - #4481126

Even if rights allow, the job of updating a script is difficult to plan or schedule. You do not know until you start whether the job is easy or tedious. A wide range of programming styles, was applied and some appear even obfuscated by design.

Then, it is not just the Python version. Also changes in OS environment and Poser organisation are to be catered for. Writing user data in the Program Files folder are a big NONO now. The capabilities of Poser have enhanced greatly over time and a lot of the hoops that had to be carefully jumped at the time are now not needed anymore, or the functions are provided natively in Poser.

No surprise there's little interest to do an update job.

I understand. Anyway, as I do love programming, especially Python, and given the fact that I'm going to have  all my time free, that's the kind of challenge I like to take up. That's where my current Poser toolbox started (about 3,800 lines).

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

---

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

Rhia474 posted at 6:33 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481094

I was wondering. How is it easier on the other side? Is there a better way, better documentation of the process? There must be a way why a lot of creators who used to create for Poser now only create for the other software.

From what I'm learning in the other side, the process of content creation is much more convoluted, with a lot of tiny things you gotta do - but then those tiny things make everything work automatically afterwards. For example, after you set parts of your conforming clothing as rigid, every little morph that gets automatically created won't twist and deform your buttons and buckles etc. And the final user doesn't have to copy morphs either, the program just detects that a morph is being used and sends it to the clothing.

Just to name a few.

And after you've made your files, you don't have to edit them outside of the program anymore. Program sets everything for you, even product categories, content creator name etc. And it's not as prone to bugging on your face and corrupting your creations like Poser. In the other hand, I've lost many a progress thinking that I could save the scene to save steps of what I was doing, but it turned out that library files were getting edited while I was working, not only the scene - so you gotta relearn the entire progress of creation. And every little morph tweak you gotta send to an external modeler because it doesn't have morph brushes like Poser. There are good things, and bad things.

From my small experience on the other side, I'd say that Poser creation is more straightforward but dependendant on other tools, and DS is more convoluted and full of steps but more reliable and with more content options/features.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Don't forget that the current version of Python used by Poser is no longer maintained........

Blender dropped 3.7.9 and switched to 3.1 last year. And there are some things that need changed to go to 3.1.....

That does basically nothing for a user that doesn't program and has a script that no longer functions because of those changes in 3.1 thou......

Any script that relied on automatic conversion of float to integer, for example, will fail......

---

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->

P13 does create well.  These Giraffa figures developed ENTIRELY in Poser 13 (sculpted in Z-Brush) by hand without any scripts or third party utilities. Traditionally grouped and rigged, poses achieved through parametric JP's converted to weightmap.

I don't think we've ever said that Poser doesn't create well - just there aren't many resources left for those who want to start learning how to now.

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Rhia474 posted at 10:23 AM Sun, 21 January 2024 - #4480639

Where Poser falls short right now is content. Look at the other software's store: I want decent fantasy clothing with detailed armor and not much skin, check. Do I want fantasy with skin, check. Do I want sci-fi armor and critters, check. Do I want monsters,  check. Do I want great props with details and different shaders,  check. Do I want to import figures from a game and render them? Check.

I'd settle for armor with a lot of skin at this point. You can't even do a naked LaFemme in a temple with a sword render, unless you make her actually naked. No brass bikinis or anything like that to be found. Most clothing for LF and LF2 are dynamic, I guess because it's easier. But some things look better as conformers.

I'd be absolutely happy to use LF or LH more if they had content that is suitable for what I do. But at this point all I can do is portraits or quasi-contemporary renders...and I am still grumpy about LH's arm bends (SO glad LF got fixed!). I tried to use him yesterday in a standing portrait with his actual, made-for-him poses and the arms were so awful I just closed the program instead.

I really hope that is being worked on for P14?

So yes, content for P14 that would be nice (along with what I described). And L'Homme updated. And I understand if displacement can't be fixed in Cycles, okay... can we, then, get some decent content creation tutorials and maybe, maybe a script that handles scars, dirt and tattoos easier than doing them by hand matzone by matzone, please?

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:43 AM Sat, 3 February 2024 - #4481193

I don't think we've ever said that Poser doesn't create well - just there aren't many resources left for those who want to start learning how to now.

As in Tutorials?

One thing about Poser its been around for generations and the same principals from decades ago largely apply today.  Here is a secret stash worth its weight in gold   http://www.cocs.com/poser/

Are you sure that the link is working?  I get a 404 error.

The page works and loads fine for me, but to be honest I am not sure what of it still can be used for the current Poser version. That's my issue with most of the stuff that is floating around: no one went through and updated older tutorials etc. I mean it still talks about reflection maps, for instance, and Smith Micro as the current owner of the software... There are tutorials here on this very site on how to *use* the software, that's not my issue, my issue is regarding to how to *make* anything for Poser. As many said before, several of the tools that were used no longer work and my understanding is that there is no process that was ever put online that is comprehensive.

I'm a Poser loyalist. Always have been.  May I make a radical suggestion? I know there are challenges to creating for Poser ... but we have some great creators who do just that. Why not concentrate on what we love.  Making images from Poser.  Just doing what we do.  No comparing to other programs or content.  But keep with Poser.  I have over 1.5 Terabytes of resources and content for Poser to work from ... dating back to Poser 3.  It's about creating what Poser can do.  The other program seems to be more about buy, buy, buy to make whatever is trending for them.  I don't think Poser users are that way.  We just get ideas and render that idea in our favorite program. 

Boni

---

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

Got you. Had no idea I was taken that way. Sorry.

Rhia, I get what you mean.  There is a tremendous lack of knowledgeable tutorials and step-by-step guides on creating content, not only for Poser but for any third-party 3D program.  The Blender community seems to be on track to provide such needs but there are no tutorials for importing and working with other program figures.  If someone is very knowledgeable in a particular skill set, they are unwilling to share technique, methodology, and tricks of the trade tips.  How many tutorials are available on how to create a mesh hairpiece?  None as far as I've seen.

I think you guys are over complicating things surrounding the issue of content. I don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way but in my eyes the content issue is much simpler. 

In 2011 Genesis was introduced creating a rift as a disruptive innovation at a time Poser was mainly in a circle of smaller incremental updates from Poser 9 onwards for several years. REF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poser_(software) (Have a look here at the developments after Poser Pro 2010, things seem to slow to an evolutionary pace)((+ Someone needs to update the Poser wiki page as it stops at 11.2)) So basically it was revolution vs evolution which always generally goes one way in a marketing environ. 

This created a fork in the user base as many were interested in Genesis and some were directly opposed. Many users decided to peak there head over the fence and liked what they found there. A platform focused more on delivering a stream of user focused content or as some may term it "selling make art buttons". At this point the market began to radically alter and sales of Poser products started to drop in the market. Many Poser users embraced the core of Poser as a self creation program and begged for tools to aid in that end. Vendors seen the change in sales numbers of content and generally migrated to vending for both platforms as this was a viable option initially. Over time the returns on one side just didn't justify overcoming the hurdles of the different direction of both platforms. So Poser content support seen a slow decline by third party creators as a response. I also believe from maybe Poser 8 or 9 onwards the market began transitioning from mainly a community driven 'make and share freely' content experience to a more commercially based concept. These factors over a decade led to the current content situation. The broader digital art market is now facing a few new forms of potentially disruptive technologies such as AI image generation, but that's another subject entirely.

I'm not going to go into my ideas how of how I think it's best to correct the trend as that tends to be pretty divisive subject. But I do see some indicators that things may be heading in a positive direction with Poser and Renderosity definitely has both the Poser community and the future of the platform in their foremost priorities. I'm looking forward to future announcement of the direction of Poser 14 from Bondware.

Boni posted at 1:01 PM Sun, 4 February 2024 - #4481243

I'm a Poser loyalist. Always have been.  May I make a radical suggestion? I know there are challenges to creating for Poser ... but we have some great creators who do just that. Why not concentrate on what we love.  Making images from Poser.  Just doing what we do.  No comparing to other programs or content.  But keep with Poser.  I have over 1.5 Terabytes of resources and content for Poser to work from ... dating back to Poser 3.  It's about creating what Poser can do.  The other program seems to be more about buy, buy, buy to make whatever is trending for them.  I don't think Poser users are that way.  We just get ideas and render that idea in our favorite program. 

I can certainly relate to that idea, I have been using Poser for 20 years now and use it to render on an almost daily basis.  In the early years I spent vast sums of money each month on more Poser content, these days I spend a lot less but the amount I am prepared to pay for individual items of content has gone up.  There are couple of Poser creators that provide some high quality Poser content and I tend to buy anything they produce.  I have even purchased some high end content in Blender format and converted that to Poser.  For all that it is my drive to try and improve the quality of my renders and understand Poser better that drives me on.  For me the ability to take an idea I have in my head and communicate that to others with the limited skills I have is what gives me the real buzz.  It is that buzz that keeps me using Poser and long may it continue.

An example of a purchase from outside the normal Poser market for something a little different that can be converted to render in Poser.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

shvrdavid posted at 5:45 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481090

Rhia474 posted at 4:00 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481081

That is what worries me. Why is Poser not attracting content makers any more? Is it something much more difficult to create for than the other program? If you look even on this marketplace,  the difference is staggering. I would like to understand why, because without content the future is grim.

The main reason is probably the fact that if you didn't have the tools prior, you are not going to get them now. Poser file editor, Netherworks scripts, etc, all gone..... Having to edit basically everything Poser saves to put it up for sale is another problem. A problem that Poser, self created.... Almost all of the sites that explain the files structures, etc, are gone as well. The ones that are left took it upon themselves to delete much of it in the past, which didn't help matters a bit.....

Sure you can use notepad++ to edit and change Poser files.... You can also paint your car with a brush, but that is not very efficient......................

Poser File Editor is not gone, it's just been bundled in with other tools:

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/53947/poser-power-tools

It's a bit pricey but the other tools in that bundle come in handy too.

But the bigger issue is that content creators shouldn't be dependent on knowing how to edit code in order to make their content work.

Full unimesh support

Full geo grafting for weight mapped figures

UV swapping - which was promised back when Poser 11 was still in development by SM.

A hair and cloth system that isn't 25+ years out of date.

All the necessary rigging and morph setup tools built into the software so there's no need to edit files in a 3rd party editor or have a degree in advanced calculus to figure out the math necessary to make morphs work as required. If I want a morph applied at 100% when this joint rotation and that joint rotation are in x position then it's the software's job to do the calculations to make that happen, not me. 

Poser has a long way to go before it's going to attract many new or returning content artists, and they're not going to wait around, they've been waiting for years.

hborre posted at 3:16 PM Sun, 4 February 2024 - #4481245

Rhia, I get what you mean.  There is a tremendous lack of knowledgeable tutorials and step-by-step guides on creating content, not only for Poser but for any third-party 3D program.  The Blender community seems to be on track to provide such needs but there are no tutorials for importing and working with other program figures.  If someone is very knowledgeable in a particular skill set, they are unwilling to share technique, methodology, and tricks of the trade tips.  How many tutorials are available on how to create a mesh hairpiece?  None as far as I've seen.

Lady Littlefox has a series of tutorials on modeling hair. Originally at RDNA, now at DAZ.

Maybe that could be a solution? Tutorials that are for sale, not for free. I can understand people not wanting to spend time explaining how to do stuff, when they could make stuff for sale instead.

Rhia474 posted at 4:00 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481081

That is what worries me. Why is Poser not attracting content makers any more? Is it something much more difficult to create for than the other program? If you look even on this marketplace,  the difference is staggering. I would like to understand why, because without content the future is grim.

I can explain - you won't like it, but I can explain why we are where we are today......

<angry 3 page rant deleted>

We have 3 interrelated problems:

1.  A lack of vision at the company level; no one from Curious Labs to 'Rosity has been looking at the big picture.

2.  A vendor base that is mostly monetizing a hobby.

3.  A userbase that is aggressively unwilling to learn either new techniques or spend money on either content or hardware to make Poser go.

I dunno, I think the company has looked at the big picture. It often hasn't been one that aligns with us Renderosity users, and it hasn't been too successful, but I think they are looking. The execution has been questionable.

eFrontier did seem more attuned to the hobbyist users. They created Content Paradise, and content that had appeal to hobbyists, like the Winter Queen and Miki. I really liked the idea of the G2 figures, with shared bodies but different heads. Perhaps because they were based in Japan, they understood that corporate users, at least, wanted more diversity. When I see Poser renders "in the wild" these days,  it's usually the G2 figures.

Smith Micro seemed not that interested in Poser. Bondware clearly wants to tie Poser to their store, which is understandable. It appears that Poser still has corporate users, since they've set up a separate store with content that won't get you spoken to by HR.

I think the third issue might be the biggest. There's such a huge catalog of stuff for M4 and V4 that is often for sale for a couple of bucks, even a few cents. I think a lot of customers are used to Poser stuff being ridiculously cheap. Plus, many of us have been collecting stuff for those figures for going on 20 years, and it's hard to justify buying pricier content for new figures that are different, but not necessarily more useful than the old ones.

I guess what would most encourage me to spend more on Poser stuff is reassurance that a new figure will be supported, well into the future. There's still not a lot of stuff for LF and LH, and now we have LF2. (They have tried to make LF2 backward compatible, to a point, and I appreciate that).

Hivewire announcing Dawn 2 five years ago probably killed a lot of the interest in the original Dawn. It's been years now, since Dawn 2 was "coming soon."

Chris is the one that invented the saying "Daz Soon" - he has stayed to form.

As far as the 3rd issue - I really feel that 'Rosity should focus on the fitting room, and come up with a plan for converting shoes.

The fitting room gets us 90% there, but the last 10% would take 90% of the work.  However, once it is done, we have another giant leap forward.  It wouldn't matter who the clothing was made for originally.

poser 14 should be able to mix the mico displacement of firefly with superfly

randym77 posted at 11:28 PM Thu, 8 February 2024 - #4481377

I dunno, I think the company has looked at the big picture. It often hasn't been one that aligns with us Renderosity users, and it hasn't been too successful, but I think they are looking. The execution has been questionable.

eFrontier did seem more attuned to the hobbyist users. They created Content Paradise, and content that had appeal to hobbyists, like the Winter Queen and Miki. I really liked the idea of the G2 figures, with shared bodies but different heads. Perhaps because they were based in Japan, they understood that corporate users, at least, wanted more diversity. When I see Poser renders "in the wild" these days,  it's usually the G2 figures.

Smith Micro seemed not that interested in Poser. Bondware clearly wants to tie Poser to their store, which is understandable. It appears that Poser still has corporate users, since they've set up a separate store with content that won't get you spoken to by HR.

I think the third issue might be the biggest. There's such a huge catalog of stuff for M4 and V4 that is often for sale for a couple of bucks, even a few cents. I think a lot of customers are used to Poser stuff being ridiculously cheap. Plus, many of us have been collecting stuff for those figures for going on 20 years, and it's hard to justify buying pricier content for new figures that are different, but not necessarily more useful than the old ones.

I guess what would most encourage me to spend more on Poser stuff is reassurance that a new figure will be supported, well into the future. There's still not a lot of stuff for LF and LH, and now we have LF2. (They have tried to make LF2 backward compatible, to a point, and I appreciate that).

Hivewire announcing Dawn 2 five years ago probably killed a lot of the interest in the original Dawn. It's been years now, since Dawn 2 was "coming soon."

The third point is the issue for me,  I have been using Dawn SE for a number of years now and I have been more than happy doing so plus I can find enough content to spend my hobby budget most months.  Her male counterpart is sadly M4, I would love to be able to use Dusk but there certainly is not the content around to make the figure viable for me.  I am not expecting the Dusk content to match M4, that would be impossible in the short to medium term, but the content that is available makes Dusk a non starter for me.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

That is an idea, it'll take a lot of work... but if they could perfect it and you could just drag whatever clothing item from whatever figure onto Poser's latest figure and it just fit like magic. I think that would be a real winner.

Poser scripts by Snarlygribbly

"The third point is the issue for me,  I have been using Dawn SE for a number of years now and I have been more than happy doing so plus I can find enough content to spend my hobby budget most months.  Her male counterpart is sadly M4, I would love to be able to use Dusk but there certainly is not the content around to make the figure viable for me.  I am not expecting the Dusk content to match M4, that would be impossible in the short to medium term, but the content that is available makes Dusk a non starter for me."

***************************************************************************************************************************************************

1. Load M4 and ZERO as well as LOCK him.

*

2. Load Dusk and SUPERIMPOSE him over M4. (Basically adjust the scaling and his pose so that he "fits" M4 like a (body) glove.)

*

3. Use the Morphbrush to improve the fit/shape by using M4 as the "target".

*

4. You might have to re-name/regroup some of Dusk' body parts to match M4 grouping. You can do it in Poser, but it's easier in a dedicated modeller. I use Wings3D and yes, I'm very, VERY oldschool.

*

5.Create a new figure based on the resculpted/modified mesh by using M4 as the donor rig.

Use MorphManager, NOT the Poser morph transfer to copy the head morphs from the original Dusk cr2 to your "Dusk-to-M4" figure.

*

6. Adjust the eyeball centers and perhaps head and neck rigging.

Hmm, I just checked the Dawn/Dusk rigging, and you'd need to readjust the centers of the tounge actors and the jaw, too.

(BTW, that's why I prefer simple rigged figures without extra bodyparts.)

*

7. If you want you can transfer M4's body morphs over to your new figure, this time DO use Poser's built in morph transfer.

*

8. Now yoy can use any type of M4 poses and clothes with Dusk without any need for conversion.

*

*
*
*

BTW, I did this a long time ago, making the P4 Dork compatible with M4 clothing, as well as making Posette compatible with V4 clothing.

These are NOT "Frankensteined" figures, but both meshes are 100% Dork as well as Posette.

That is what the fitting room is for, hornet3d.

It does quite well going from M4 to Dusk - if that doesn't work (and sometimes there are issues), then try Xdresser.

Between the 2, I moved just about everything to Dusk.

ssgbryan posted at 12:31 PM Fri, 9 February 2024 - #4481401

Chris is the one that invented the saying "Daz Soon" - he has stayed to form.

As far as the 3rd issue - I really feel that 'Rosity should focus on the fitting room, and come up with a plan for converting shoes.

The fitting room gets us 90% there, but the last 10% would take 90% of the work.  However, once it is done, we have another giant leap forward.  It wouldn't matter who the clothing was made for originally.

LOL. You might have a point there. But jeez, at one point Chris said Dawn 2 coming out maybe next month. It's been years since then.

Clothes aren't actually the biggest issue for me. It's morphs and textures. LF and LH are lacking in diversity, and IMO, it's the morphs and textures that are the issue. If you want to depict a middle aged Black man, say, or an elderly Asian woman, you're kind out of luck.

One particular example: nearly all the LF textures have eyebrows that are really thick, and square on the inner ends. That is fashionable now; all the models and actresses have brows like that these days.

But it hasn't been popular in the past, and doesn't look natural. So if you want to render a 50s glamor girl, or a historical heroine...the textures look anachronistic.

CobraBlade posted at 3:38 PM Fri, 9 February 2024 - #4481405

That is an idea, it'll take a lot of work... but if they could perfect it and you could just drag whatever clothing item from whatever figure onto Poser's latest figure and it just fit like magic. I think that would be a real winner.

While this is a sweet idea, it would never happen. Rendo sells content for a living, if we could just re-use all the old content on every new figure with ease, we would never buy content again

Many (all?) Genesis figures come with 4th Gen (And even 3rd Gen) "legacy" shapes.

While these legacy shapes still feature the original Genesis rigging, it's quite easy to convert them to the original 3rd or 4th Generation Poser rigging.

Here is Genesis 2 Male converted into a native Poser figure, complete with Michael 4's shape and rigging:

This figure can use all M4 poses and clothing. Has a more realistic face, takes G2M textures and head morphs, and weighs 2/3rd less than M4 does.

Poser has such powerful tools, it's a shame they are hardly ever utilized to their full potential.

*

BTW, DAZ seems to be fine with the fact that pretty much all Genesis figures have one-click access to each others clothing, including the vast V4 and M4 wardrobe.

So, even though they see selling new clothing as their main buisiness model, they don't mind "hand-me-downs" cutting into their profit margin.

That makes me wonder if they'd be willing to "license" the V4 and M4 shapes and rigging to a third party.

All things considered, a "native" Poser figure, but with "out of the box" V4 and M4 clothing compatibility might make a good "interim" solution for the currently content starved Poser community.

(Not to mention that I find many V4/M4 clothing better made than their more modern counterparts, anyway)

This is great. Now, here is my question:

Can you share *how* you did that? With a step by step for end users who are clueless and may benefit? It is great to see that is *can* be done, but it's useless if people don't know how it is done, especially if it's done entirely inside Poser.

Here you go:

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2986273/lafemme2-to-v4-or-if-the-mountain-wont-come-to-muhammad

That's nice, but I specifically was curious about the Genesis part of your post. I know how to use the Fitting Room for clothes.

There is no difference between G2MtoM4 and LF2to V4.

Exept that the G2MtoM4 is easier, especially if you have the M4 legacy shape for G2M.

Load M4, add G2M to the scene and fit him over M4.

Take especial care of the hands, as even with the legacy M4 shape, G2M and M4's hands are different.

*

Combine the hip and waist into a single object. (This actually can be easily done using the grouping tool)

(If I remember correctly the eyes have to be renamed, too. But I'd have to check that)

Export as object. Import again.

Use the Setup room to transfer G2M's original rig for the correct head rigging, then transfer the M4 rigging directly in the Pose room, to get the correct body rigging.

Maybe adjust the rigging here and there if necessary. Done.

(I used my weightmapped M4-17K as the rigging donor)

*

BTW, this already IS "higher level Poser tech". In my experience hardly anyone will ever attempt to do something like this.

99% of Poser users can't even  pose a figure from scratch, less alone modify it from the ground up. (And there is nothing wrong with it, because that is what Poser is all about: Saving you from having to do everything from scratch so that you can spend more time rendering)

*

So, my intention is not to teach the average Poser user how to do it. (Although I'd be happy if someone would try it out)

But to give a "proof of concept". THIS is what Poser could actually do, so that they are less satisfied with what they actually get.

Thanks for the insults; way to tell me you don't care for the average, normal, everyday end user  who would like to learn. 

This is exactly why I am despairing for this program's future.

The problem is not that people are not willing to share their knowledge. The problem is that the past and present owners of Poser constantly made the wrong decisions, completely misjudging their customers.

The average Poser user IS all about "load, render, post to the gallery, repeat". And as I said multiple times over the last 23 years, if that's what makes them happy, there is nothing wong with it.

If Poser would have originally come with the figures I wanted, I'd be exactly the same. While it's satisfying to be able to do whatever I want with a figure, all this tinkering takes time away from actual rendering and story telling.

If you search my name, you find that I posted quite a lot of tutorials over the time, but hardly anything ever resulted in someone trying to recreate my efforts. People are happy to download an already finished figure, but hardly anyone ever tries to do something on his own.

This is no insult, but just the way the Poser community works.

I think I already described thoroughly how to create a "to-V4" or "to-M4" figure, but you actually do need a working knowledge of how to pose and scale a figure yourself, how the MorphBrush works, how the Setup room works, how to rig, how to open a cr2 and an object file in a word editor and how to edit those files.

Explaining all this at true "beginners level" for every little step with the corresponding pictures would probably take me several days to set up.

And the result would probably be just a few Thank You's and ataboys and nothing else. Sorry, but after 23yrs I'm too tired and also cynical for that.

The days of Dr Geep and all that pioneering work are over. People want instant gratification these days.

*

So, if I post something these days, it's more aimed at the current owners of Poser, not the "General Audience".

It's "Look folks, this is what a Poser figure can actually do  - Why can't the figures that come with $200 Poser do it?"

The better the people are informed, the less inclined they are to buy Poser in it's current state. The less copys of Poser are sold, the more inclined it's owners will be to make better decisions in the future.

There is a difference between "supporting" and "enabling".

(For the record, I bought Poser 11 TWICE and paid full upgrade price for Poser 13)

*

At least commercially, Poser is completely dead. G8 and G9 rule undefeated but even they will soon be replaced by AI.

The old hands either defected to DAZ, dead, or are cynical old bast*rtds like me, so there isn't much hope for revoking any type of "community spirit".

Any change for the better must come from those who have the power to make the actual decisions.

I really LOVE Poser to pieces. I wouldn't blink an eye paying $1000 for a copy that has certain features that would improve my work.

I'd also happily pay $500 for a Poser figure that makes full use of all the abilities Poser actually has.

*

But given the state of things as they are right now, the only "Love" I can still show Poser is sometimes being a (small) thorne in their side.

Any "real" support (like a truly elaborate tutorial, for example), would just enable them on their path of bad decisions.

*

Still, if someone wants to ask me a serious question about Poser figure design and mods, just PM me. I'm a bit tired of public discussions and locked threads.

;-)

What is stopping Poser from having "one-click sharing of clothes"?

regards
prixat

"What is stopping Poser from having "one-click sharing of clothes"?"

*

That's a good question. I made a tutorial back in 2013 how to turn Genesis (1) into a native Poser figure. (No DSON needed, faster loading times, etc)

The "on the fly" UV-Swapping didn't work anymore, but the "clothing - autofit" STILL WORKED! INSIDE POSER!

Sooo....

1. This was proof that Poser was perfectly capeable to support it's own Genesis-type figure. ONE well designed mesh that could be anything from young woman to old man, from Zombie to baby, from monkey to monster.

2. If clothes can one-click "autofit" to a completely different body shape, then it should be perfectly possible to have them one-click "auto-convert" from one figure to another. (Probably a "translator" figure would be needed though. But making these is just a matter of hours as I've just shown with LF2-to-V4)

But I'm no coder, and probably some real coder will soon join in, explaing to us why this is all A VERY BAD IDEA, and that it is much more benefitial for the community to have a new set of hastily designed, poorly supported one-off figures that are as quickly forgotten as they were created, with every new iteration of Poser.

*

Rather than to shamelessly copy (and probably improve) a method that obviously works very well for DAZ.

(After all, they copied Poser in the first place)  ;-)

But as I said, that was in 2013!!!

I've long given up to make sense of this, and went on my own merry way. I even "invented" my own posing system to make my figures look more realistic.

But I still dream of a native Poser figure that:

1. Looks like a real person. Regardless what body type it is morphed into.

2. Bends like a real person. Even in extreme positions.

3. Does have genitals like a real person. Or not. (There was nothing wrong with Poser's genital switch. It was just swapping hips)

4. Has as few polygons as possible, but as much as needed. (And is not afraid of tris or poles to achieve an efficient topology, because Poser doesn't mind them)

5. Has a cr2 that is as simple as possible, so even dummies like me can hack and edit it.

6. Relies on morphs and morphs alone, because with Poser's ability to inject morphs only as needed, this is way more practical than a complicated rigging armature.

*

AI will probably "kill" this hobby, anyway, but I'd rather see Poser go out with a BANG, than with a whimper.

"What is stopping Poser from having "one-click sharing of clothes"?"

*

That's a good question. I made a tutorial back in 2013 how to turn Genesis (1) into a native Poser figure. (No DSON needed, faster loading times, etc)

The "on the fly" UV-Swapping didn't work anymore, but the "clothing - autofit" STILL WORKED! INSIDE POSER!

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2874695/print

Sooo....

1. This was proof that Poser was perfectly capeable to support it's own Genesis-type figure. ONE well designed mesh that could be anything from young woman to old man, from Zombie to baby, from monkey to monster.

2. If clothes can one-click "autofit" to a completely different body shape, then it should be perfectly possible to have them one-click "auto-convert" from one figure to another. (Probably a "translator" figure would be needed though. But making these is just a matter of hours as I've just shown with LF2-to-V4)

But I'm no coder, and probably some real coder will soon join in, explaing to us why this is all A VERY BAD IDEA, and that it is much more benefitial for the community to have a new set of hastily designed, poorly supported one-off figures that are as quickly forgotten as they were created, with every new iteration of Poser.

*

Rather than to shamelessly copy (and probably improve) a method that obviously works very well for DAZ.

(After all, they copied Poser in the first place)  ;-)

But as I said, that was in 2013!!!

I've long given up to make sense of this, and went on my own merry way. I even "invented" my own posing system to make my figures look more realistic.

But I still dream of a native Poser figure that:

1. Looks like a real person. Regardless what body type it is morphed into.

2. Bends like a real person. Even in extreme positions.

3. Does have genitals like a real person. Or not. (There was nothing wrong with Poser's genital switch. It was just swapping hips)

4. Has as few polygons as possible, but as much as needed. (And is not afraid of tris or poles to achieve an efficient topology, because Poser doesn't mind them)

5. Has a cr2 that is as simple as possible, so even dummies like me can hack and edit it.

6. Relies on morphs and morphs alone, because with Poser's ability to inject morphs only as needed, this is way more practical than a complicated rigging armature.

*

AI will probably "kill" this hobby, anyway, but I'd rather see Poser go out with a BANG, than with a whimper.

randym77 posted at 7:59 PM Fri, 9 February 2024 - #4481415

LOL. You might have a point there. But jeez, at one point Chris said Dawn 2 coming out maybe next month. It's been years since then.

Clothes aren't actually the biggest issue for me. It's morphs and textures. LF and LH are lacking in diversity, and IMO, it's the morphs and textures that are the issue. If you want to depict a middle aged Black man, say, or an elderly Asian woman, you're kind out of luck.

One particular example: nearly all the LF textures have eyebrows that are really thick, and square on the inner ends. That is fashionable now; all the models and actresses have brows like that these days.

But it hasn't been popular in the past, and doesn't look natural. So if you want to render a 50s glamor girl, or a historical heroine...the textures look anachronistic.

Shhhh......

Don't say that LF & LH are All Caucasians, all the time.  It sets people off that can't actually do math.  I have run the numbers - Poser (and DS) figures are over 90% Caucasian - it has always been this way.  As I said earlier, Poser has devolved from Make anything you can conceive of to Make a generic pin up image with an instantly forgettable white girl. 

The whole reason I use every figure I have collected since Dec 2004 is that is literally the only way to get a wide variety of ages, shapes, colors, and such.

There are a number of texture conversion products have have been around, and then abandoned - the last was Texture Transfer.

It works really, really well and a number of us were begging Blacksmith3d to take our money for new plug-ins, but it looks like they have gone to that great software repository in the sky.

Texture Transformer would have also needed updating to support PBR type maps (normal, metallic, roughness, etc), as well as the ability to save SuperFly shaders. 

DeeceyArt posted at 7:08 PM Wed, 14 February 2024 - #4481622

Texture Transformer would have also needed updating to support PBR type maps (normal, metallic, roughness, etc), as well as the ability to save SuperFly shaders. 

While yes, that would have been nice, but any of them could be converted by plugging them into the diffuse node and saving as a temporary shader file. It's not as nice as a auto-convert, it was better than nothing

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