Hello fellow Poser users,

I would like to know your thoughts on the possibility of a native Linux version of Poser.

Some of you may know that I have experimented with hosting a Poser version on a Linux OS for a couple of years now, with mixed results. I'm currently running Windows 10 on my very old system. As we all know, Windows 10 is expiring 2025 and Windows 11 and 12 are coming. Windows 11 asks for certain requirements to be meet by our hardware. Since we spend most of our resources on the newest and fastest graphics cards, most of us use the older, but completely functional Mainboards and CPUs I assume. The question is will you buy a new computer who meets Microsofts requirements, running Windows 11 or 12 or do you run an unsupported Windows 10 until your older hardware dies?

This set as the premise, I would like to introduce another option, just as a thought experiment. Given that your hardware is, let's say 5-8 years old, it could run at least for the same amount of time on a Linux based OS, save and secure. The hustle is that your and mine favorite software does not support Linux.

Keeping sll that has been said in mind, would you like to have a Poser version that runs native on the Linux platform?

And to the developers of software my question is, how hard is it to compile a program like Poser for the Linux environment?

Sorry for the length of the text, but I wanted to make sure you get the idea behind it.

For the most part, Windows 11 needs a computer from 2017 or more recent. By October 2025 when support for Windows 10 ends, that means computers more than 8 years old won't be supported. I do have a computer with a 6th generation processor that will be left behind (purchased in 2016), it's already moved to the living room where it is running Steam. In principle, I could use it for network rendering, but I don't think it would be worth the trouble, and in another two years it will be even more out of date. (In fairness, I might give it more though if the new computer was slower.)

For the developers, they are already doing cross-platform development, so I'm sure that helps, but if you look at the delays in getting Mac support updated, and assume Linux would add a similar amount of additional work, my personal guess is that there is not enough demand to justify taking that development time away from functionality.

I would love a native version of Poser that runs in Linux particularly as I am one of those that owns an aging but originally expensive machine that will not run Windows 11. At the start of the year I had three PCs running Windows, two using Windows 7 and one on Windows 10. Then the bank that I use withdrew support for Windows 7 on their online banking. I realised this meant that, if the Windows 10 unit failed, I could no longer do Internet banking so I replaced my wife's PC with the micro PC with Windows 11 installed. I was so impressed with the micro PC I then purchased another higher spec unit to replace my existing Windows 10 PC. I now use that micro PC, running Windows 11, to do everything including Poser, with the exception that some large final renders are done on the old machine.

To all intents a purposes this negates my need for a Poser Linux version but I would still love the option.

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

Thanks for all taking the time and write a reply.

So far I learned that most of you already made the jump to Windows 11 and/or also purchased a new computer with Windows 11 pre-installed.

In this case the need for a Linux native Poser version is practically non-existent.

I really don't know what to choose. I made several upgrades to my system over the years and it runs pretty well. Despite the fact that the whole PC is almost 14 years old now with a first generation I7x CPU Poser 13 works and renders surprisingly fast. To retire a perfectly fine working system just because Microsofts support expired seems counterintuitive. Since 2025 is not next week, I don't have to make that decision right now, but in the long run I have to.

blackbonner posted at 7:10 AM Fri, 29 December 2023 - #4479728

Thanks for all taking the time and write a reply.
So far I learned that most of you already made the jump to Windows 11 and/or also purchased a new computer with Windows 11 pre-installed.
In this case the need for a Linux native Poser version is practically non-existent.
I really don't know what to choose. I made several upgrades to my system over the years and it runs pretty well. Despite the fact that the whole PC is almost 14 years old now with a first generation I7x CPU Poser 13 works and renders surprisingly fast. To retire a perfectly fine working system just because Microsofts support expired seems counterintuitive. Since 2025 is not next week, I don't have to make that decision right now, but in the long run I have to.

I was really reluctant to give up Threadipper CPU based system that was still running just because the hardware did not support Windows 11, that is the main reason I still use it for final renders. The advantage of micro PC was it was about an tenth of the price of my Threadipper system and I could move that system to my garage giving me a much clearer work space.

Poser may run on a Linux machine, and you will be able to compute using only the processor...

That being said: your PC will remain safe as long as it is not used to go to the Internet using browsers, emails, telegram, whatsapp and all that stuff.
I mean: if you setup a strong firewall with one thing going from inside to outside (Poser) and nothing in the other direction, you may run your PC till it physically dies. And there are enough strong free firewall, if you don't trust Windows' own one.

To access the internet, buy stuff for Poser, etc: use a newer, cheaper PC.

Then to give access to what you just bought:
- either use an USB key
- or a NAS
- or your internal network, with one shared folder

I advice to rely on two firewalls:
- the one given by your internet provider
- a second one, that YOU control, such as Asus' excellent devices
That plus the PC's internal firewall and you'll be safe.
That's the configuration I've been using since the old times when we had to connect using modems. and it has a serious Plus: if you change your internet provider, nothing changes inside your own network.

And the advantage of a NAS, even if it may be expensive: no direct link between both PCs, no need to share any folder.
In my case, I made the jump for a RAID5 Synology.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

@y-phil

Thank for the advice. That's pretty much what I thought too. One followup question if I may, if I cut the internet connection to my PC, what will happen if I try to enter Poser?

As far as I know Poser wants to phone home to validate the serial number, right? Will I get locked out of Poser in a given time frame?

Yes to the first part of your reply. I have installed Poser 13 successfully on Linux Mint Cinnamon with the latest version of wine. Everything works perfectly fine, even the Firefly render engine does which was not functional in Poser 12.

The only downside is the dependency on CPU rendering only, because wine isn't able to pass the GPU through. That is the one thing that keeps me on Windows, like at all. Since the rest of the software I use is already Linux native, like Krita, Gimp and Blender, there is not much left to stay with Windows.

Windows 10 support has already been partially extended to 2028. Currently Microsoft plans on charging for the extensions, but the chances of that changing to free are fairly good. The adoption rate for Windows Home/Pro 11 is not the best for reasons already mentioned, it wont install on everything by default. Windows 11 just recently broke 20% adoption, after how many years? We are already at the Windows 12 cycle time, with little adoption of Windows 11.

In hind sight, limiting Windows 11 installs was probably not the best decision on Microsoft's end. Windows 11 Enterprise adoption is also terrible, which will only help extend Windows 10 Home/Pro/Enterprise even further.... I would not worry about Windows 10 loosing support just yet. I don't think that was Microsoft's plan.....

I doubt we will get a Linux version of Poser. It would make more sense for Linux to improve Wine, etc. Linux is down to 3% of the market share on desktop PC's, which makes it a very niche and small market. Linux cross platform sales offers basically no financial return unless it is a widely and highly used program. Developing Poser for it, would be a loss.

Windows can run and develop Linux code using Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL). Maybe it is time for Linux to run other platforms code as well.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

@Shvrdavid

I agree with you on Linux being a niche market. Since I have asked both sides what it would take to find a way to make Linux more popular and Windows programs running on Linux without the whole jumping through loops until the cows come home, I'm standing in the middle of it being told from both sides the other one is responsible to make it happen. It's a bit frustrating. The good news is, the open source committee is not a monolithic block, there are always people who just do whatever they want to do. Chances are someone is just working on it.

But thanks for all the good advice and thoughtful inside. Always nice to have this community.

In the end it is Linux's responsibility to make other op systems programs run natively on it and have access to the hardware. No matter what the dev's tell you on the Linux or the Wine side.

Mac OS can run Windows X86 / X64 stuff a few different ways. I doubt Microsoft wrote the code to do so.

Windows can run Linux, Apache, Arm, Android, and many others directly within Windows. And you can bet that Microsoft wrote the code to do most of what is natively supported without some other program to do so.

Linux, well, it can't run much of anything unless a definition and translation is written for Wine, for everything Wine has never run into before.

Remember, Wine is ( W ine I s N ot an E mulator ), it is a translator. And being only a translator, Wine has severe disadvantages in cross op system compatibility. And anything it has never seen, won't run....

Wine is good for many programs because someone took the time to write what was needed for it to work within Wine. But as you know, Wine also has some issues that prevent it from being useful in many ways. Specifically, Linux blocks using or sharing certain hardware on the system.

Linux used to have advantages in areas like servers. But now that those advantages are basically gone unless you write a custom kernel for the specific hardware in your server, or someone already has written it. That is what has kept companies like Red Hat alive, people paying for support and custom kernel mods.

There is little difference in the home pc area now, other than there is no one paying to make it work.

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

I still would like to see a version of the Render Queue that runs on a minimal footprint (console?) Linux or a small GUI version like Peppermint. I have a 10 year old Core i7 system that is due to retire from active duty somewhere in the coming months.

If the mud is off and OS is minimal size, it may still be useful as a mini farm.

Only using a computer for network rendering would simplify the development requirements. But it seems a bit niche to think a lot of people would have a Windows/Mac computer plus a Linux computer on the side.

Another consideration apart from the platforms the devs are required to support (meaning investment of time to install and understand), is the underlying architecture.
While certain platforms have emulation for x86/x64 support on other architectures, meaning one could run earlier versions of Poser (prior to 11.3/12) on macOS (just another flavour of Unix under the hood) in a Windows emulator, such as Parallels, etc., if the underlying CPU was Intel.
Indeed, that OS supplied emulation (i.e. Rosetta2) also allowed Poser built for x64 to install and run in virtual Windows within Parallels on actual ARM CPUs (M1, etc.).
That worked right up to the point when it was decided to restrict OS support to later macOS versions, plus prevent the installation of Poser on any system which identified its CPU as something other than x86/x64 architecture.

Prior to that, macOS on ARM could run the Windows Poser in a virtual environment while emulating x64 without any problems. Since then, it will not even install.
Of course, that doesn't apply to macOS Poser on ARM, thankfully that's still supported, but it was only a decision to neuter the installer which prevents Poser running in Windows on ARM, as far as I can tell.

Admittedly, this isn't Poser on Linux, but that narrowing of the platform support avenues indicates the likelihood of Poser on Linux, IMVHO.

Though I would prefer it to be otherwise, it seems that avoiding the burden of supporting additional OS/Architecture combinations is a reasonable course of action by Poser's current development team.

As further disclosure, I have had numerous Intel based Mac workstations with multiple boot partitions, including both Linux (RedHat) and Windows 7/10.
None of the ARM Macs I own support booting from a Windows partition directly, but Parallels and other VMs do provide that option (including Linux if I choose).
Again, prior to the Poser Installer restriction, they could also run Poser in Windows under Parallels on ARM. With the Windows beta programme enrolment, even Windows on ARM might be possible on the Mac ARM hardware, but Poser will no longer install if the installer fails to detect an x64 CPU.

Fingers crossed that one day, all such restrictions will vanish, and Poser can co-exist with Doom on a Raspberry-Pi running Linux ;-)

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Forum: Poser 13

Subject: A native Linux version of Poser....