Hi fellow Poser User,

in response to the thread "The Future of Poser" I decided to start this thread, as a wish-list of things you would like to have for Poser.
I know that many of you are looking over the fence at the Daz Store with the a feeling of envy and hopelessness.
They have so many nice toys, right?
And most of it is out of reach for us Poser user.
So, like I wrote before in "The Future of Poser" thread, we can complain and wait until the cows come home, or we can at least try to take things into our own hands.
I thought it would be a good idea to collect some information first.
It would be nice to have an overview on stuff you want to work with in Poser.
This list could be useful as a guideline for content creator, to focus on things who are needed instead of putting out content which is collecting dust on the store shelf.

To break the ice, here are some items I would like to have.

1. A Catsuit for LaFemme and LHomme, because I loved working with the Victoria/Michael 3/4 versions of it.
2. Outfit sets for LaFemme and LHomme, like Nurse, Soldier, Cheerleader, Pilot, Police Officer, Craftsman/woman, Firefighter.
3. Sci-Fi environments for Poser, in a world-building, modular fashion.
4. A Riff, with corals, different sort of sea live, light presets for night and day, maybe a ship wrack, underwater gear like diving bells, etc.

If you like, make your entry's.
To the content creator's out there, maybe you choose something out of that list and put it on your bucket list.

I am committed to Poser because it has the ability to produce solid, consistent line art with its Comic Book Preview. Daz Studio does not have that (however, if they do come up with a solid OpenGL preview, I would have to reevaluate that). My main woe is not with the Poser software itself, but as you said, with the lack of deep resources for Poser's new generation of characters: LaFemme and LHomme. There just aren't enough clothes, props and poses to make using them a realistic option for me. As such, I'm still working with Victoria 4 and Michael 4 as my primary figures.

Before I can really start using LF and LH, I would need:

• More utility poses (standing, sitting, driving, walking, leaning).
• More ACTION poses (fighting, flying, punching, falling, climbing).
• Better expression collections (flirty, angry, happy, smiles, frowns, anger).
• More everyday clothes for different time periods (jeans, shirts, dresses from the 30s, 40s, etc.).
• An easy way to fit Vi4 and M4 clothing to LF and LH.
• Better hair for each figure.

I know it's unrealistic to expect LF and LH to get the kind of deep asset libraries that Vicky and Mike have. After all, V & M have been around for decades. But before I can start using the newer figures I have to have a reasonable expectation that I will be able to find the clothes, hair, poses and expressions that I will need for my projects.

I've been creating content for Poser for 20-25 years (I've lost track). I used to create content that would fill the void, and also tried to create content that people requested in the forums. The problem is, the requests don't often equate to sales. It's a fact of reality.

As far as LF and LH 1 and 2 go, I'd love to see characters that approach the realism of the Genesis figures. Sadly, I haven't seen any yet. 8-( I'd try some myself but my skills are more in clothing than in characters.

@DeeceyArt

Thanks for your honest opinion on this topic.
You, as a long-time contributor to Poser, are extremely valuable to this topic.
I'm sure you have to publish content to pay bills and so on.
I don't want to push anyone to produce stuff from their own pocket money.
I'm just asking you to share your expertise with us.
You say the Genesis figure is superior in terms of realism.
Would you say this is because of better geometry or rigging?
Does the way Daz handles textures make the difference?
By characters, I assume you mean whole sets of textures, body morphs, makeup, bump and displacement mapping presets, SSS material settings, right?
Would be interesting to hear your opinion on these questions.
As I wrote above, it's all about information and anything helps, no matter how insignificant it may seem.

I've been agonizing over a solution to this for months. And agonizing whether or not to post some tough questions.

Let's take a look at what has happened over the years. DAZ and Poser content used to work in both platforms (ie: the V4 generation of figures). It used to be a LOT easier to create Poser and DAZ Studio content than it is today. The disconnect started when weight mapping and rigging changed the ball game for both.

But also, over the years, stores started upping the criteria for submitting content. The clothing had to work well in all (or most) poses and body shapes. That means having to test each joint rotation and each full body morph to make sure that there are as few pokethroughs as possible. That takes time. A LOT of time. But then we are in tough economic times. So while people demand higher quality, they also demand lower prices. The two needs fight each other, unfortunately. And to that, there IS no easy solution.

As far as what makes the Genesis figures "better" ... that's a good question. But here are some of my feelings on it (your mileage may vary). And I'm not saying this to complain, but to bring forth a conversation that might work toward solutions. Y'all know I used to be on the Poser team and I care about Poser. I want to see it succeed. But I'm now in my 70s and my old tired brain doesn't work as well as it used to. So I retired.

Start with a GENERIC, not a STYLIZED base. It's easier to morph character individuality IN than it is to take stylized detail OUT. Think of Sydney from Poser 7. It was hard to un-Sydney Sydney. She always had an unmistakeable look. (She actually reminded me a lot of J-Lo LOL)/ The more stylized a character is, the harder it is to work with.

Geometry and edge flow is probably the second most important thing, IMO. You can't create good character morphs if the geometry won't support it.

As far as materials go, I think SuperFly is entirely capable of creating good skin shaders. So maybe it's the promos that aren't up to par. I really don't know. I would think lighting and render settings have a lot to do with promo quality.

Again, I want to stress this isn't to complain. I think we need to group together to see if there might be some sort of solution that would help relieve some of the stagnation. A figure can only have so much skimpwear. LOL

DeeceyArt posted at 1:04 PM Sat, 24 August 2024 - #4488716

As far as materials go, I think SuperFly is entirely capable of creating good skin shaders. So maybe it's the promos that aren't up to par. I really don't know. I would think lighting and render settings have a lot to do with promo quality.
Again, I want to stress this isn't to complain. I think we need to group together to see if there might be some sort of solution that would help relieve some of the stagnation. A figure can only have so much skimpwear. LOL

^^^This. Okay, unfiltered Rhia on:

I lamented for a very long time now that at this site the quality of promos for Poser are FAR below to what the DAZ promos show. Superfly is PWRFECTLY capable of creating renders that are the same quality as a lot of the DAZ product promos are. I am really not sure why people are still using Poser 7 standard lights and backgrounds for promos, when those look absolutely horrendous, washed out and crappy in Superfly. Even for those who say they are creating Superfly compatible stuff. Overlit and over saturated promos abound and they are simply not attractive, period. Frankly, you can't sell beyond the same 10 people who still work with 2008-era stuff. Which is FINE if that's your target audience, but you lose those who'd look for something more in the line of what DAZ sells.

Solution 1: take a look at what is over DAZ now (checking the 1st page of most recent popular releases only). High resolution male and female figures with ethnic features, different ages. Monster features, fantasy skins, tattoo application the easy way--why don't we have something like the old one click tattoos wounds and dirt redone for current Python STILL? It's ridiculous. It has been lacking for almost a decade now. 'Apply a layer' is not really an answer when that needs to be done for each matzone and when solution for this has existed for Poser but hasn't been updated since the Python update for any of the products that featured it. Which I understand, a lot of those vendors left production, but why no one else (or, you know, horribile dictu, why the current owner of the program itself) has taken this up?

Solution 2: Make. Better. Promos. Especially with the current tools for Superfly Poser rendering, there is no excuse for crappy promo renders, plastic skin, overused lighting. Strut your stuff, people, I know you do awesome work, because I use some of that stuff.

Okay, rant over. I really want Poser to succeed, but those of us who want it in the 21st century are swimming against the current right now, and has been for a while. The software is great, the content made for it is...well.

I feel bad bringing this stuff up. I really do. But I think it's time for a good think tank session. 8-)

PS .. unfiltered Rhia is cool. I think if the critiques are all done in respect, it's cool.

Absolutely, but someone has to say it, and I feel we were dancing around it for long enough. I try to be respectful, because I know how hard people work to bring things here, but I also like to be direct when it has to be direct to be understood.

Thank you for starting this thread, guys. There are vendors here who do amazing job with creating tools and scenes/ props that elevate Poser to the next level so I know it can be done. And those of you who moved over to the DAZ side, know exactly why you did it. So it'd be great to hear that side. Let's hope we will indeed start a dialog. I also don't want to come across as a basher.

My main reason for moving to DAZ was character realism. I understand not everyone likes to do the realism thing, but I do. 8-)

And yes, thank you for starting this thread. Hopefully we will see that we are all in this boat together but have a different view of the ocean. LOL

I'm totally agreeing with Rhia. Being retired since the end of April this year, I have plenty of time and I'd be happy to help to create decent promo pictures.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

(っ◔◡◔)っ

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Thanks again to all you people commenting here. I have to admit that this thing is not going as I thought it would, but I like the way it turned out quite a lot!

"Look at the front page of the Daz Store....."

Exactly my point!

If you look at those promo pictures you feel the urge to use this stuff...and buy it! That's how marketing works. And Daz is really good at that. We should take that opportunity and learn from them. IRay is in no way superior to Superfly. To the contrary, because the base of Superfly is cycle's, the free and open source render engine of Blender. That means, whatever Blender foundation decides to do with Cycles, it doesn't affect Poser in the slightest. The opposite is true for IRay. If Nvidia decides to pull the plug on its development, Daz Studio is in serious trouble.

To the topic of the LaFemme/LHomme figure: I see the point made by one of the commentators that those figures are too stylized, too much LaFemme so to speak. That means we need one or two base meshes with a reasonable rig and proper weight mapping. From that point on, morphs can easily be made and injected, clothing can be made fit for any variants of the figures base meshes, which means less trouble with poke throughs and less work on the clothing item itself. Is that correct so far? As far as I remember, the Genesis Platform began as a single mesh that could be morphed into both sexes and any other type of bipedal creature. They changed this approach later and went on with two base meshes, one female and one male. Is there any technical reasoning behind this, or was it a marketing decision to force the users to buy an clothing item twice?

If one would like to create a new base mesh, which base pose would you prefer in order to create morphs and clothing for it? The classic T-Pose or the more recent A-Pose?

There is a wrong assumption, that in DAZ you have to buy clothes for each new figure again!

You can wear many of the V4 /M4 Clothes to all the newer Character with autofit, if the clothes do not fit in the first attempt, use the old “Genesis” figure as a step between, after this fit the clothes to your new Genesis 2-Genesis 8 / 8.1 figure. It doesn’t work with all clothes and Hair but with a lot.

@wfbp1w

That is interesting.
I wasn't aware that the backward compatibility in Daz Studio reaches as far as V4/M4.
I just installed a fresh copy of Daz Studio to learn about how they build there base models.
My last statement about the single base mesh of the Genesis Platform is only partial true.
I found out that Genesis 9 is back to that single base mesh model for both sexes.
Loading this mesh next to a LaFemme mesh into Blender reveals the difference between both meshes quickly.
Genesis 9 has a very orderly mesh, it looks almost like a chess board.
Even with little experience in regards to UV mapping I can imagine that this dense and evenly created mesh shows less texture distortion and can support highres textures.
This clean geometry itself helps immensely to create more realistic morphs and better fitting clothing.
As much as I like the LaFemme figure, I see the point being made about the Genesis Platform.
The only conclusion I can draw from seeing this is that we need something similar for Poser.

The reason why Daz moved from 1 figure to male and female was content creators were having trouble creating something for the combined. I forget what the issue was, but I think it was textures, but I've slept since then so I may have forgotten.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

I want to express my gratitude and appreciation to everyone in this thread. It's SO refreshing to see us all tackling a hard subject with respect for each other's feelings and allowing all voices to be heard. YAY everyone!

As far as T-pose vs A-pose. A-pose lends itself better to clothing creation as the clothing drapes more naturally in an A-pose than a T-Pose, and it's easier to define where the shoulder line sits. Especially in Marvelous Designer. As far as combining male and female meshes, the challenge is the boobage. It's hard to get a boob shape that works well with both, and the G9 mesh is challenging for males in that area. But the G9 face is .... pinches fingers to mouth .... MWAH!

DeeceyArt posted at 11:53 AM Sun, 25 August 2024 - #4488762

As far as T-pose vs A-pose. A-pose lends itself better to clothing creation as the clothing drapes more naturally in an A-pose than a T-Pose, and it's easier to define where the shoulder line sits.

I think that's probably why LF2 starts out in A-pose now, although I have'nt really seen a lot of content for her yet, to be honest. There is now an A-pose available for V4 to drape clothes better with, (it came with a dynamic clothing set I bought here on the marketplace and I loves it). I find it super useful for the Fitting and Cloth Rooms.

blackbonner said: "The only conclusion I can draw from seeing this is that we need something similar for Poser."

Yes, having generic, realistically proportioned base male and female, with good edge flow and capability to handle a lot of different character styles will go a long way in inspiring content creators to make more clothing.

A good base male is desperately needed for Poser, I heartily agree. Proportionally male as opposed to grafted to a female base. I am very peculiar about how that is a very bad idea, whether it is in DAZ or Poser. You can't just change the shape and call it a male or female. The very proportions of the skeleton and musculature are different enough that you need different meshes.

Rhia474 posted at 12:10 PM Sun, 25 August 2024 - #4488765

A good base male is desperately needed for Poser, I heartily agree. Proportionally male as opposed to grafted to a female base. I am very peculiar about how that is a very bad idea, whether it is in DAZ or Poser. You can't just change the shape and call it a male or female. The very proportions of the skeleton and musculature are different enough that you need different meshes.

Especially when you start getting into muscle-bound characters.

Actually here's something that is somewhat off topic, yet oddly ON topic.

You all may be aware that the summer olympics recently aired on TV. And to that note, I was somewhat fascinated by the differences in body shape, depending on what they were competing in. Most surprising was the upper body shape and strength of the swimmers. I never realized how broad they were toward the top.

So getting back to the wishlist ... yeah ... there are a whole lotta body shapes out there to consider when buliding a base mesh.

Oh absolutely. Different muscle groups get trained for swimmers than for say, weightlifters or figure skaters. Also, muscle built in some sports also requires fat reserves, some does not. It's great people watching and trying to guess what sport someone does. Same with building characters in Poser. I have a few who are designed with 'wearing heavy plate armor several hours a day' in mind, and they need to be very different from 'spends hours sitting very, very still on rooftops or chairs' types.

OK now let's get to blackbonner's initial question. What kind of "stuff"?

Real world stuff.

A generic dress with round neckline and long sleeves, generic a-line with long sleeves and floor length. With morphs and good use of texture zones and textures that generic dress can serve as a base for many different styles. So even better if it's allowed as a merchant resource.

Similar with catsuit-type set, with feet and gloves if possible. Likewise even better if it's allowed to be used as a merchant resource.

Shoes. Sporty (sneakers), everyday (loafers, flats), formal (like you'd wear with a tux or gown) ... and FLAT and HEEL poses to go with them. Women typically don't stand on the balls of their feet very much when wearing flats.

Pants. Not too tight, not too baggy. Something in between that then can be morphed either way without too much texture distortion.

Useful clothing is a lot like creating characters. Can you make a piece of clothing that can be morphed and textured to look like it's from another era or style?

You get the idea.

Nothing "barely there". There's way too much saturation on that as it is. LOL

Now what's the difference between a catsuit and a bodysuit? Because there is this available for Lafemme. It doesn't have the feet or gloves though.

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/141069/bodysuit-for-la-femme-and-lhomme

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Iirc, there are everyday clothes for LF, including sneakers, but not easily morpheable, and nothing like that for LF2 so far. Same for LH. A set like V4 had for morphable tunic and pants and belts for easily textureable fantasy/scifi clothing (the Courageous set) would be great. Same for LH, so people can build on it.,

@RedPhantom

Thanks for pointing that out. I wasn't aware of that product. I will definitely check it out. One item less on the list.👍

I would like to see similar items like the morphing fantasy dress, more conservative type clothing, office suits etc,i.e, that someone would actually wear in public.or to work.

Also a set of jeans, waist high, most of these a have even for V4 seem to start well below the naval and almost half way down the hips.

jimros posted at 7:12 PM Sun, 25 August 2024 - #4488777

I would like to see similar items like the morphing fantasy dress, more conservative type clothing, office suits etc,i.e, that someone would actually wear in public.or to work.
Also a set of jeans, waist high, most of these a have even for V4 seem to start well below the naval and almost half way down the hips.

La Femme Jeans or L'Homme Jeans?

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/135772/la-femme-tshirt-and-jeans

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/153188/la-femme-jeans

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/136431/dynamic-jeans-la-femme

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/163054/jean-sweater-for-lf2

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/152751/lhomme-jeans

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/141568/jeans-for-lhomme

Suit?

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/137445/la-femme-business-suit

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/142445/lh-classic-suit

These exist.

Thank you for the links, Business suit and Jeans straight into cart.

Thank you very much for all the comments so far. It's really good to see that the Poser user community cares.

The initial intention behind this thread was to put together a list of things you might have seen in the Daz Store or needed for a project, but wasn't available in one way or another.

It seems we all could agree to the notion that the wardrobe of LaFemme an LHomme is pretty short on items, especially in regards to LaFemme 2.

I would like to ask what kind of clothing you prefer to work with. The obvious choices are dynamic clothing or conforming clothes.

I also would be interested to know how to build conforming clothes with dynamic parts. I guess the dynamic parts has to be excluded from the part of the mesh that is influenced by a bone, but I'm not sure if that is the right way to do it.

So far, I'm quite happy with the amount and quality of the comments. I also appreciate the civilized tone of the discussion.

Have a great week and greetings from Germany.

The dynamic part doesn't need to be boneless but should be all one bone. When I convert dresses to other figures, I usually lose the body handles. The skirts all become the hip. It drapes fine. I only have issues if I use a donor dress that includes leg rigging. Of course, you need to have it welded, like everything you want to drape

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

@RedPhantom

Thanks for answering my questions.

I do understand that example with the skirt which had handles before as a conforming clothing. If you attach all the parts of the mesh you want to be dynamic, those parts still getting influenced by this single bone, right? That's why I thought to exclude them completely from any bone influence. I think I have to do a simple prop and try how it works out.

I have used poser for many years, doing my best to create everything my pictures contain. Working with Lafemme is a pain as if you try to fix a morph for me anyways it goes crazy. I am not am not dumb but have difficulty with interfaces which is why I like poser as it is simple, even though blender has a lot more to offer. More so since I spent three months in ICU for oxygen derivation where I lost a lot of memories.. What I do not understand is why the designers cannot make things that actually work easier. We have a hair room which would work if there were tools that could assist in designing the style. but having to guess where the hair will pull or bend is not efficent. Having a brush or comb that you could place the hair where you actually wanted it instead of having to guess. I use an inexpensive program to create items or to morph figures because again the interface is simple. but when I carry the figure back it looks nothing like what it looked like in Silo. I really cannot understand why this happens. Both programs have the same import and export and the morph works, just not the way it was designed. One last thing, update the manual and explain how to do things with examples.

Dive into Fantasy and Ride the Waves

I have many scenes in my head, but non of those are on paper.
I have yet to learn to bring those to life.
The ones that I give life, are not those I see

DeeceyArt posted at 11:36 AM Sat, 24 August 2024 - #4488711

I've been creating content for Poser for 20-25 years (I've lost track). I used to create content that would fill the void, and also tried to create content that people requested in the forums. The problem is, the requests don't often equate to sales. It's a fact of reality.
As far as LF and LH 1 and 2 go, I'd love to see characters that approach the realism of the Genesis figures. Sadly, I haven't seen any yet. 8-( I'd try some myself but my skills are more in clothing than in characters.

You can make any mesh any shape you want, it is just moving polygons. However, a non-stylized mesh and good topology makes it a lot easier. LF2 has much better rigging but old fashioned eyelashes ( shouldnt be attached). She has some problomatic areas, around the eyes and nose, ears. Still it is possible to make her a lot more realistic. Here is mine attempt at a more realisic morph:

This is another morph that I did in just 35 minutes. As you can see, the mesh doesnt really matter but it does help if the polygon flow is great. We can try to make her a little better if we dont have what we like. She misses a lof of stuff but if people are willing to spend a lttle time and put also stuff in freestuff for her, i think she will be much more popular.

These look great,I especially like the second one

My apologies for not responding sooner (I thought I did). Yes, the second morph is looking nice!

Two Poser selling points:
Morph Brush with its HD capabilities and Parameter Dependencies editor.

Late to the party but let me put in my little honest rant.

I fully agree with the need to better recycle existing content. Some things age. For example: old textures often have burned-in highlights and that's difficult to solve. Poses on the other hand do not age. The parameters may change between figures but they still have two arms and two legs and the direction of the left forearm in xyz space does not change. There are/were perfect pose converters available that can do batch jobs. The poses section of my Project Evolution Runtime has all the poses I collected over time for V4, V3 as well as Schlabber's collections, ready to use with tweaks as needed anyway to match the character.

Obviously conversions cannot be put out as marketplace products, so even when distribution is permitted it has to be as freeware, and as such it does not exist in Rendo eyes. They rather desparately try to market a figure lacking supporting content than actively facilitate existing they do not earn direct money from. I converted manually three pose setsthree pose sets originally by Sclabber to LF/LH, just to see how that goes. It took me an hour or 2 per set to convert.

Same for clothing conversions and clothing development. LF and LH come with a higher resolution figure as a donor. The problem is of course the geometry is the body shape and not a clothing shape, so copy by proximity leads to bad results, in particular if the figure is muscular or busty. About the bust: shape is usually altered significantly by clothing. You therefore cannot model a nightshirt and a business suit from the same mold. What Rendo lacks is thinking in a system: what would a creator need to make something to work in our system, of which the figure is just one part.

And about figure textures: why reinvent uv mapping with every figure? After 20+ years there should be some consensus about best practice to skin a human body and spread the pelt on two square tables.

Time to rethink ways.

RATS! I just updated the category of these pose sets and now they are waiting approval again. Sorry but it will be some time before you can see them.

Sadly, most of the points here fall in the same old issue: we severely lack Poser creators. Most people passed away or moved on to other software/other things entirely. Poser severely struggles attempting to bring new people in.

With LF2 I can say that our priorities were to have a more neutral shape that's easier to morph (and I ADORE what Solo24 has done there!), less JCMs to make it easier for clothing creators, and as much ease to convert old stuff as we possibly could with Poser's limitations.

- - - - - -

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.

Hi fellow Poser User,
I'm glad this tread is continue to draw attention.
So far there are very reasonable postings and suggestions coming in.
I learned that I'm obviously not the only one who is missing a thing or two to be available in Poser.
I take that as a positive sign and a driving reason to go further.

I completely agree with what Ohki wrote.
The lack of content creators is Posers biggest weakness.
The question is, how can we brew, cook, bake or breed new one?
One answer could be to make it easier for people to start making content.
Poser already made major steps in that direction by having Poser Fusion for the big player in Modeling and content creation.
That's sadly history and it seems it's not making a comeback.
Me for example had purchased the C4D r12 back in 2010 initially because it was a great way of creating things and exporting them into Poser at the right scale, but also import entire projects animations right into C4D which had, at that time, the better render engine and was way quicker.
In my opinion, it is long overdue to have this kind of interconnection to Blender.
Another solution of the problem would be to create a "school" for new creators, with older and accomplished Poser Content creator as tutors.
To have an idea in mind and to get it into Poser is a bumpy ride, that I know from experience.
I was almost willing to quit the project (the diving suit for LaFemme) because I failed in almost every step of that journey.
It was the help of the community here on Rendo, but also me asking questions and keeping ask to get to the buttom of the barrle.
I guess, some of my questions were pretty much answered a gazillion times and some of you thought this guy is annoying as f, but at the end I released a product which was at least downloaded a few times.
How much more easier it would be to have a forum that is dedicated to upcoming creators who had concepts for content, but not the skills to make it happen.
I know that there are objections to that idea because some of you have bills to pay and content to sell. To give advice to others could harm your business, I understand that.
Coming from a philosophy of free and open source software and being an advocate for the Linux OS, my first priority in this regard is to keep Poser alive and well.
That's why all of my content is and will be free to use.
To make that clear, that's my opinion and I know that you most certainly have yours as well.
The question is, how can we work together to make our favorite software stay in business and getting better.
If you like to discuss some of the ideas that are being brought up, I'm happy to join in.

One thing to what Ohhi said about Lafemme, the images I create with LaFemme are mostly adult entertainment.
The audience I offer my images to is quick to point out flaws of a figure and that in a rather harsh way.
Since I stopped using V4 and start using LaFemme, creating clothing and body morph for here, I had not one complained, like at all.
Instead I get likes, Images are shared and the comments are positive.
The interesting part is, no one seems to know that LaFemme and Poser exist.
That's another field the needs to be addressed I think.
I made it a habit to name the things I use to create my images to every posting.
This credits have stirred a few reactions, people who had heard that Poser is out of business are surprised to see that this is far from truth.
So, I think with every little step we make, we are getting better and that counts, at least to me.
The worse thing we can do is doing nothing.

OK, I'll be unfiltered again, and I apologize ahead of time if this comes across as harsh or rude.

It's simple. There are no tutorials or lessons from the ground up for a beginner content creator to start. I looked.

All existing tutorials (very few) assume you have knowledge already. If I just want to start--there is absolutely nothing like Blender's 'donut tutorials'. Nothing. nada.

Until that is done, don't expect people to line up to make content. I would love to, but absolutely have nothing to start with. The existing creators and owners of poser, for some reason,. don't think that creating tutorials is feasible, possible, or important. I don't know why. Perhaps someone can explain.

As to why no one knows this exists--it's marketing, marketing and marketing. Even on its own page, Poser is relegated to the back of the scroll on the top and often no products for it show on the banner. If you go to the main page, right now and look: does it say proudly at the top of the page: 'hey, this is the home of Poser'? Nope. Does it show La Femme2 as its flagship figure? Nope again. It has generic 'this is a content marketplace, unlock your creativity' on. How many of those renders on the main landing page are made in Poser?

I work for a large company. If our flagship products, the ones we OWN, were not advertised in huge banners and explained it detail on our main page...

I think, with Poser 14 coming out in the coming months, we probably won't see tutorials coming out until then, otherwise any P13 or earlier tutorials would be quickly outdated.

I'm wracking my brains trying to remember if there was something, at least in a post reply. My brain is telling me there was, but I haven't found it yet. I'll keep looking.

Rhia474 posted at 9:43 AM Sat, 14 September 2024 - #4489294

OK, I'll be unfiltered again, and I apologize ahead of time if this comes across as harsh or rude.
It's simple. There are no tutorials or lessons from the ground up for a beginner content creator to start. I looked.
All existing tutorials (very few) assume you have knowledge already. If I just want to start--there is absolutely nothing like Blender's 'donut tutorials'. Nothing. nada.
Until that is done, don't expect people to line up to make content. I would love to, but absolutely have nothing to start with. The existing creators and owners of poser, for some reason,. don't think that creating tutorials is feasible, possible, or important. I don't know why. Perhaps someone can explain.

As to why no one knows this exists--it's marketing, marketing and marketing. Even on its own page, Poser is relegated to the back of the scroll on the top and often no products for it show on the banner. If you go to the main page, right now and look: does it say proudly at the top of the page: 'hey, this is the home of Poser'? Nope. Does it show La Femme2 as its flagship figure? Nope again. It has generic 'this is a content marketplace, unlock your creativity' on. How many of those renders on the main landing page are made in Poser?
I work for a large company. If our flagship products, the ones we OWN, were not advertised in huge banners and explained it detail on our main page...

I agree with you. The best-kept secrets are locked up in a vault where nobody has the key. If there were a communal tutorial center with vendors sharing their time and talent, not afraid of a little competition, we would probably see different types of content freely available to users.

That's perfectly reasonable, you helped a ton in the past years heck, past decades (so hard to believe). Makes sense about the release pitting things on hold, but tutorials specifically for content creation for newbies hasn't been on the radar for very, very long time for anyone, not just with P13 and 14. No wonder there are no up and coming creators for Poser.

@Rhia: What kind of content are you wanting to make? Clothing/accessories? Props? Hair? Skin/Materials? Aside from weight mapping, content creation really has not changed much for Poser since forever. The methods have improved and become a bit easier but the basic steps for creating content are the same whether you're making it for P4 woman or LF2.

Materials are a bit different story. The basics are still the same but there have been so many changes to nodes and settings between 11, 12 and 13 that they have to be customized for each version you're wanting them to work in.

@DeeCey: From the latest Posersoftware email regarding the 13.3 update, I'm not sure how close P14 is:

"This release marks a change of direction for the Poser development team. Customers can expect ongoing updates to Poser 13 for the next 12-24 months as the team explores new technologies for the next major version of Poser."

OK. The one I'm thinking of ... I believe Teyon did a tutorial in the latter SMSI days. I don't think it ever made it over to Rendo in the switch.

AmbientShade posted at 11:47 AM Sat, 14 September 2024 - #4489302

@DeeCey: From the latest Posersoftware email regarding the 13.3 update, I'm not sure how close P14 is:
"This release marks a change of direction for the Poser development team. Customers can expect ongoing updates to Poser 13 for the next 12-24 months as the team explores new technologies for the next major version of Poser."

EEK

AmbientShade posted at 11:40 AM Sat, 14 September 2024 - #4489301

@Rhia: What kind of content are you wanting to make? Clothing/accessories? Props? Hair? Skin/Materials? Aside from weight mapping, content creation really has not changed much for Poser since forever. The methods have improved and become a bit easier but the basic steps for creating content are the same whether you're making it for P4 woman or LF2.

Um. To make content like clothing from scratch for a figure in P13, I'd think at least rigging is vastly different because the figures are more modern. And even for that. Can you point me to a tutorial that explains in small steps for someone who is completely new but is familiar with Poser itself, how to do it? Online, with links that are live?

These tutorials go into a lot of it. It explains how to use La Femme's dev rig to transfer morphs and joint centers to clothing.

Instead of using a dev rig for Dawn 2, you can try copying joints and morphs from Dawn herself. The principles are pretty much the same.

LFDevRig1-Getting Started

LFDevRig2-ApplyToClothing

LFDevRig3-InjectMorphSupport (Instead of this, you can copy morphs from Dawn to the clothing later in the Pose Room)

LFDevRig4-TransferMorphs toClothing

LFDevRig5-EditingFBMs

LFDevRig6-EditingJCMs

LFDevRig7-EditingCompoundJCMs

"Before you import your clothing into Poser, make sure that it fits around the base La Femme OBJ file, in default scale and position. Use your modeler or a third party grouping program to add groups to your clothing before you import."

Guys, I am an utter noobie. I have no idea what this means and how to do it. As in--how to I even model a piece of clothing? Where? That's what I mean--this is what a new content creator would need, I think. If that's not the level we have stuff for, and everyone who get s into Poser content creation already knows how to use whatever modeler they have used, great, I just bow out and conclude that it is what it is.

Thank you.

There are also these, which may expand upon some of the previous

Using the Setup Room to Create Clothing

Editing FBM in Place

Editing Existing Joint Controlled Morphs

Rhia474 posted at 12:38 PM Sat, 14 September 2024 - #4489309

"Before you import your clothing into Poser, make sure that it fits around the base La Femme OBJ file, in default scale and position. Use your modeler or a third party grouping program to add groups to your clothing before you import."

Guys, I am an utter noobie. I have no idea what this means and how to do it. As in--how to I even model a piece of clothing? Where? That's what I mean--this is what a new content creator would need, I think. If that's not the level we have stuff for, and everyone who get s into Poser content creation already knows how to use whatever modeler they have used, great, I just bow out and conclude that it is what it is.
Thank you.

Well that depends on what modeler you are using, at which case you'd import the character's OBJ file into your modeler. Model the clothing around the figure. Those tutorials are above and beyond how to do the rigging, as it's impossible to cover how to model clothing in all the apps that are available.

Be aware, though, that Poser's native scale is teeny tiny. So it would depend on which modeler you are using to determine whether it accepts Poser scale or if you have to scale up when importing and scale back down when exporting.

It's actually not an easy topic to cover in one tutorial series. A lot depends on what modeler or other third party tools are being used.

Start with the basics. You can make simple (and even some more complex) props directly in Poser with the grouping tool. Even clothing. It's basic stuff but it teaches you the essentials that apply to everything else you do going forward.

With the grouping tool you can use primitives from the props library to cut various shapes, scale, rotate and move them around to assemble different things, kind of like legos. Export them together and then re-import them as a single object. You can make everything from furniture to basic clothing this way, and never have to leave Poser, at least until it comes time to map and texture them but you could use procedural materials if you really wanted to take the poser purist route.

If Rhia wants to learn, it would probably be easier for her to learn a modeling program (or Marvelous Designer). If she wants to start out with something free, perhaps Blender is the way to go. I'm not a Blender fan but I know there are a lot of Blender users that could help her out.

The main reason modeling isn't covered in the Poser tutorials is because there are so many different modelers (Blender, 3DS Max, Modo, LightWave, Cinema 4D, Vue, Silo, ZBrush and so on). Not only that, but someone could be using a version of the software made in 2016, while another could use the latest and greatest. Hence, the reason that Poser tutorials begin with the assumption that the OBJ file is already modeled for the Poser figure.

Blender might be something for you to check out next, Rhia!

You guys are very helpful. Appreciate it... I think I understand the limitations better now. Will return this thread to its original course, again, thanks and sorry for the derail.

I understand the frustration, believe me. I was just as overwhelmed when I first started learning this stuff. But there is really a sense of accomplishment when you complete your first piece of clothing, even if it's as simple as a tube skirt! Don't give up. Do some research on the various modelers. I can't remember if there are other free ones besides Blender. Perhaps a new thread can be started for modeler recommendations for a newbie.

An easy and 'free' route to cloth modelling is CLO's Jinny: https://connect.clo-set.com/jinny

You can load the .obj file of your figure there autofit the template garments that come with it, or re-use models in their market place 'CLO.Connect'. There's ample free models available. Clothing can be edited.

When loading the figure geometry .obj specify the xyz data are in feet and use an 860% scale.

You can get the garment out by uploading your model to Connect and save a .fbx locally. Poser happily loads the .fbx as a prop, that you can save in the library. In Connect your model appears as a draft that you can delete. Set your figure to invisible before export/upload. The .fbx format is scale aware so you can import in Poser at 100%

Note: The conditions of use of CLO-Connect are a bit peculiar. Be sure to read and understand before you upload anything you are serious about.

The .fbx-es can be textured and decorated in Jinny.

I have good experiences with this for 'quick and dirty' garments. I stopped saving them in the library, as it is usually easier and faster to make something dedicated for the project and then use it in the cloth room or throw a rig on it in the fitting room and fix thatever poke-thru with the morph brush.

I forgot to add some links:

https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/95042/antonia-for-jinny-starter-pack

https://www.renderosity.com/freestuff/items/95193/jinny-garment-paul-poirot-1920s-dress

NIIIICE suggestion, Frans!

Go away for a day and come back to a book. Wow.

This isn't a free tutorial, But it might help you get started with making content. https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/112346/how-to-make-clothing-for-poser-a-step-by-step-guide.

It's been a while since I looked at that but one problem is the modeling portion was a little vague. But it's hard to do a tutorial for that portion since every modeler is different. I too would love to see something along the lines of the donut tutorial for making clothes for poser, including getting it all packaged up correctly for distribution.

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

@Fverbass, I tried that program but couldn't figure out how to get my clothes out of it. Do you know of a good tutorial that tells how to do that?

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

RedPhantom posted at 7:39 PM Sat, 14 September 2024 - #4489347

@Fverbass, I tried that program but couldn't figure out how to get my clothes out of it. Do you know of a good tutorial that tells how to do that?

1- make the avatar invisible

2- go into studio mode. To do that click on the camera icon top-right on the screen.

3- in the studio screen, on the right, there is the export section. At the top you can enter the name. At the base there is a button 'export' and above it there are two checkboxes. The upper of the two has title: 'download fbx', or something like that. (Sorry I do not have my system at hand now). Make sure it is checked and then press 'export'.

The .fbx file should then be in your downloads folder. Addiionally a browser window will open on your model in Connect. You can choose there to delete your upload from Connect or to add data and publish.

Note they are still working to find their way with Jinny and there are frequent changes in the interface. Tutorials may therefore soon be outdated.

Key is the export works from the studio mode and not from the file menu.

A few more notes about Jinny models:

1- They are tri-mesh and have typical node distance 20 mm. That is perfect for normal loose clothing.

2 - The uv maps are flat (like pieces of fabric laid out on the tailor's workbench, prior to sering them together). The individual pieces may overlap, in particular if the garment is made of multiple garments, say sweater and pants.

3- The scale of the uv maps for with the same material is constant and coordinates are expressed in size of the fabric sample. Thus not constrained between 0 and 1.

4- The uv islands change with the grading (=fitting) of the garment. If you let Jinny fit a skirt on a figure that needs 1000 mm of fabric to encompass the hip, the uv map will cover that 1000 mm on the fabric. For a figure with 800 mm hip that will be 800 mm on the fabric. Like in real life, a 25 mm checkboard pattern remains a 25 mm checkboard pattern irrespective of figure size.

So forget morphing etc. Garments are 'cut' to size for the figure.

Thanks. Hopefully soon I'll have a chance to try it out

Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage

Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10

Once you get to a clothing mesh in that can be imported. The next challenge will be defining the body part groups. There are tool in Poser that will attempt to do that for you. None produce truly acceptable results. There's an extremely important rule that the automatic stuff doesn't necessarily stick to. The polygon groups can only touch parent to child. Sibling parts can't touch, grand parents can't touch. I'm working up a tutorial on that right now.

There's also a kind of "My first Poser figure" step-by-step here: https://www.renderosity.com/forums/comments/4489210/permalink

Creating groups from the target figure indeed can be a vulnerable process, especially when there are folds in the garment in a location where a group cut is made.

One problem with the fitting room and the setup room automatic grouping is they do not show the proposed grouping and then give the user the option to edit while things are still simple.

PhilC offered a cunning tool named obj2cr2 that assigned facets to a body part group based on the x and y coordinates, or rather on the color of an area of an image of the figure profile. Problem is of course it requires section location fore and aft to be the same.

This link leads to a script by yours truly attempting to overcome this restriction by using functions cutting the xyz space until the body part for a facet is found, so if facet is below hip-thigh cutting plane but above thigh-shin cutting plane and the x- coordinate is positive then the facet is assigned to the lThigh group. In practice this works fine also for figures in A-pose. The cutting planes of course are specific for a figure. The linked script is for Project Evolution.

I would just note that making textures for existing clothing, making poses, making facial expressions, making characters -- these are all easier than making clothing. And the skills you would develop making textures, including making promo images and submitting to the RO marketplace, are things you would need to make clothes. So that may be a more sensible place for people to start.

Regarding facial expressions, there is a little new trickiness there in LF and Dawn because of the combination of morphs and face chips. When you save an expression you want to do it in a way that doesn't erase a character; that could maybe use a tutorial or something somewhere, or at least an explanation of best practices. (Even better would be functionality in Poser that makes it easy to separate character morphs from expressions.)

Forum: Poser 13

Subject: Things you want to play with in Poser...