On the PF, I brought up the subject of how other Brycers deal with images with lots of objects and the uncertainty of what the image will turn out like after a fairly long render. I've been using quick render w/o materials for placement, but I still get surprises. I didn't do patch or plop renders because I was dealing more with camera placements and perspectives (and lighting). However, totally open to learning good habits using Bryce, I'd love to know how others deal with this. I found myself thinking it was the way I wanted it, rendering it overnight, and then finding something I just hated. Render again-and again. What do YOU do?? Diane