Attached Link: The Banning of George Deep from the PFO

I am sure that most of you have read the beautiful article written by George Deep on the tragedy that occured in NYC today. I was wondering how many of you know that George was banned from from the PFO for making the post, which was deleted. I am speechless. One man pleads for unification and peace in the community, and another man spits in his face, and basically spits on each one of us, our electronic community and on our country. I am writing a letter to Egi.sys and to Daz3D and will include the same link that I am placing below. I will then request that egi.sys stop hosting the PFO and that Daz3D stop hosting their free stuff. Is anyone else with me? You may think I am overreacting, but any one you who had to explain what happend today to your children should understand. My son is 8. He teeters between belief in disbelief over the childhood joys of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. He wants to believe but then again, it seems so illogical. When I sat him down to explain what had happend (the school basically told him that there was a bad plane crash and that recess was cancelled), I saw something shift in his face, something dim from his eyes. Welcome to the real world, my little man, my best friend in life. Maybe I am over-reacting, but I have a right to do so

YEAH..reading that...that was pretty lame of them {:O( -LW

The people who run the PFO are--and always have been--two dull-brained pendants. Their site isn't much of a resource for anything but their own silly posturing. Although they may wave the banner of egi.systems, believing it gives them some legitimacy or importance, they're not even much a blip on the community screen, pretty much relegating themselves (and deservedly so), to the status of an afterthought.

I dont think its really necessary to ask DAZ and whoever to dismiss the PFO. But if people are angered by what they have done, then they probably will not visit again. That in itself with be punishment...as without visitors websites dont survive. -LW

This is Liz Pope, writing for both Verdie Ingram and myself, this tragedy is almost beyond belief! You're letter was wonderful and I agree that in a time like this that the whole community should pull together. We are an artists community comprised of so many people from different countries and cultures with one thing in common, the creation of beautiful 3d art. Are hopes and prayers go to those most directly affected by today's events. And I am absolutely astonished that the PFO would ban you George for sentiments of community support, believing instead that you were seeking monetary gain for it! I just can't believe something so stupid. Liz Pope and Verdie Ingram Dreamspinner Inc.

But they survive a lot longer when they have a free ride.

What I can't believe is that ANYONE would try and turn such a wonderfully written post about "community" and pertaining so eloquently to the current crisis in America right now...into a petty little slam against Renderosity. Thank you for your wonderful post George. It was beautiful. Forgive my language....but the PFO can go fuck themselves. That's all I have to say in the matter. Bastards.

Meaning behind the above over-emotional post: Consider my letter to DAZ and Egi.sys written.

God forbid you mention another website.... the horror... how could he possibly do that.... Can you hear the sarcasam?

Maybe we should all ban the PFO. Don't go there anymore. I don't usually say anything bad about anyone, but in this case the PFO's actions are utterly distasteful. This is gross and disgusting behavior. I would strongly urge DAZ and egi to withdraw their hosting and support of the PFO. Narrow-minded individuals who can't give up their personal vendettas even on a tragic day like today don't deserve community support. If anything, today's events should serve to remind us all that there are more important things than Poser.

Attached Link: http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/forum.mv?Announcements_News+read+8999768987

I would like to ask you all to click on the link above and post your support for George by demanding that Grey restore George's account on the PFO and allow his post to be restored. I think if enough people spoke up, UNIFIED, that something good will indeed come out of this. Please click on the link below and add your post.

Hi folks. This is A1HostCoMark from the Commune. I know you never see me post here. :^) I also wanted to ask you to please do the right thing here and not lash out at Ian for what he did. I'm not defending him or what happened but I personally think that in light of what happened today that we all try to do the right thing and start somewhere. I was the one asking for the community to ask Ian nicely to reinstate George's status at the PFO. Banning the PFO or boycotting it or asking EGI to not host him anymore or whatever isn't the solution. The solution is to band together for once towards a common goal. Between all of our sites we are a powerful voice. Let your voice be heard as bearers of good will. Thank you. Mark

I agree Mark, we need to stand together as an electronic community and show our support for George. I am still going ahead with my letter writing campaign to Egi.sys and Daz.3d. George attempted to bring the community together as a show of our support for the victims of yesterday's horrific events. Ian chose to serve his own agendas, again and thumbed his nose at all of us. He needs to go.

Please. This is getting way out of hand. I do thank you for all your interest and support in this matter but honestly this is not what I want or expected. Up until my post at the PFO today I haven't been there in nearly 8 months to a year. I just wanted to post my letter for all to read and reflect on. If Grey feels the need to say what he did to me in his emails fine. He wants to ban me fine. I just don't think his attitude towards what I was saying in my original post was funny. He for some reason has held a grudge with Renderosity and anyone who has anything to do with the site. His problem..whatever it may be..is between himself and someone other than me. To take his hatred out on me was uncalled for. Even if he does unban me I won't be going back. I have found true friends at Renderosity and here. I'm happy with that. GeorgeD

Let it go folks. Please, we've all had enough hatred for one day.

I thought that people are banned for using files that are not them. Now it looks that people can be banned for opinions. that does make no sence at all!!!

sigh...

Nit, It is their site..they can ban whoever..but they do have to ( and will) live with the results of it. The looks of it is they have banned a popular Rendo/PropsGuild member and may now have lost support from alot of other Rendo members. It does not help the matter to goto arms against the PFO for this. GD has asked for the matter to be let go...so we should respect his wishes. The banning event has damaged the PFO's reputation already already it seems, there is no need to try and puh it any further. I am not in any means trying to defend them, and..I probably wont visit myself, but trying to destroy their reputation with DAZ and where ever does not help things. We're a community of artists...not a lynch mob. -LW

I've been kicked out of better places than that. They booted me over a year ago when I started selling my stuff. And I NEVER promoted my stuff there, only posted my free stuff. They said I was a commercial interest and not welcome. I guess they think I'm a capitolist pig. I find being able to pay the mortgage VERY inspiring. It is fitting they would boot someone bearing an olive branch. What a bunch of sh*t heads. I haven't been there in ages and will never return.

Well that's fairly surreal :) I know the man hates this place, but that takes the biscuit. "I hold in my hand a piece of paper..." (which will make sense to the Brits in the audience) later jb

I'm with nitacreed ,they will not see me visit there site again

At the end of George Deep's message, he put a WWW address of a .JPG file with his "In Remembrance 09-11-01" banner in. That WWW address was on Renderosity's site. And PFO did not like that. God alone knows why, at this of all times.

Breaking the hand that bears the Olive branch is behavior that is not Civil. News of PFO doing this again realy saddens me.

(Putting finger and thumb by forehead in the shape of an "L") L-O-S-E-R What the heck?! What kind of petty low life loser bands someone for posting such a profound statement after such an incredible tradegy?! Get over yourselves PFO! Personally, that type of indescriminate banning does justify us asking to have their site taken down. Some people might mistakenly believe that PFO represents our Community and personally, I don't want that type of pettiness representing the Poser community. I'd rather let it be said that we are a collection of artists with sympathy, dignity and compassion.

I'm with Pariah and Nikita.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

wow totally tasteless tacky and insensitive of the pfo. I don't know the history, nor do i want to know the history, but this is out of line. "Personally, that type of indescriminate banning does justify us asking to have their site taken down. Some people might mistakenly believe that PFO represents our Community and personally, I don't want that type of pettiness representing the Poser community.".. ookami well said, i agree.

Can someone please tell me who or what PFO is? Thanks in advance.

The PFO doesn't like anything with the name "renderosity" in it. The PFO does not use HTML in their forums. I'M NOT DEFENDING THE PFO!!! This is fucking bullshit. I have visited there the last time to remove my freestuff and previous posts...

It's "Poser Forum Online", and EGI/CL sponsored poser community forum. Predecessor to this one. I'm not going to post the url... but I'm sure someone can get you one.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Man thats fuckign bull shit. PFO has gone to far fpor banning you for that. but since you wish us not to take it any further i will respect your wishs and not do anything. But pfo shouldn't be allowed to be up and with the surpport they get. AAH

It is the Poser Forum Online. It is a group somewhat like Renderosity. It seems to have a few hundred downloadable objects etc. It and Renderosity split from each other in one of the schisms that has happened in the past. Is it possible that this ban was not a human decision but automatic? Perhaps their software has a "detect offensive word" system and they put "renderosity" in the list of forbidden words.

the Admins ban people from the PFO. My friend NightHawk (aka. ArchAngel) has mentioned "Renderosty" and has not gotten banned YET. He is verbally attacking the PFO as I post here. I have removed my freestuff from the pfo.

Thanks, Ironbear. I was just curious what is was, I don't want the URL.

"Is it possible that this ban was not a human decision but automatic? Perhaps their software has a "detect offensive word" system and they put "renderosity" in the list of forbidden words." I seriously doubt it. Ian patrols those forii with an almost religious fervor just waiting for someone to say something that goes against his way of thinking. I have reread George's request many times. I see him asking to discontinue the campaign to get his account restored on PFO. I am going to continue the write in effort to request EGI and DAZ stop their support of the PFO. I am doing this is all person's best interests. My grandmother always told me "you are known by the company you keep." Egi.sys and Daz3D are keeping some pretty bad company with Grey and the PFO right now. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i agree write those letters to them and get them to stop and give me the address to and i will write them too.

The actions of the PFO are horrendous. I am not one to point fingers around here, but in this I cannot remain silent... Their actions at this time are... putred! I am deeply hurt by their arrogent attitudes and paranoid delusions! I've said enough :( Styxx

As Ive always said. Its a sad place there, and a shame that the software makers support a site where 9 out of 10 poser users will never feel welcome.

Attached Link: http://www.maleposer.com/cgi-bin/poserboard/forums.cgi?forum=4

For those of you interested in contributing to a global discussion on the recent tragedies, I have created a forum on MalePoser to address these issues. As horrible as this tragedy is, I do not believe that it is over... it has just begun. I am currently at ground zero, and am very concerned about what the media is NOT saying. Use the link above to go the forum where I will be posting eperiodic updates from Manhattan.

Situation normal at the PFO.. nuff said.. George.. thank you for the wonderful post.. You said it so well and i agree with all you said. Forget the PFO.. They don't matter anymore.. I will lodge my complaint with Daz and 3D in support..

I have sat on the fence with the PFO issue.. Thought its their site, each to their own.. etc etc Could never understand their non-commericial use policy.. Kinda like telling a plumber you can buy a wrench, but don't you dare use it except for personal home repairs... BUT this goes too far.. Just for the record.. Anything sold via Renderosity for the Community Fund is 100% given to the fund.. NO payments to the vendors, NO percentage taken by Renderosity.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Senior MarketPlace Tester

If anyone sees a mind wandering aimlessly around..... It is mine.  I want it back.

Hmm. The PFO folks hate us because we're members of Renderosity. Kind of like how these terrorists hate us because we're Americans...? Sigh Hasn't anyone learned ANYTHING from what happened yesterday? I support a ban wholeheartedly, at least until they see the light, apologize, and end this stupid obsession with Renderosity. Anyone with such ignorant biases should be held accountable for them. I don't care what their gripe is with this site, they should not be taking it out on our members. Maybe when nine-tenths of their members leave, they'll re-think their policies? On the other hand, if no one takes a stand, then nothing will ever change. But no flame wars, please. That just causes more anger. We've had enough of that, haven't we? If you want to support this, just don't go there anymore. If Ian gets lonely, let HIM come HERE and apologize. Until then, I for one am going to avoid the PFO like a dead skunk on the highway.

If I may remind people: THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIED YESTERDAY! This is bullshit under the bridge. Leave it there.

"If I may remind people: THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIED YESTERDAY!" That is correct and one flaming asshole and his partner-in-slime have thumbed their noses at it and deemed their fund-raising activities the only ones that are worthy.

Yes, they did. But as cold as it may sound, life goes on. Should we ignore every insult because thousands of people died yesterday? As far as I'm concerned, it just makes me more determined to fight this sort of thing. Life is too short to spend it being insulted and abused by morons like the PFO. What's more, that is exactly what the terrorists wanted: to cripple us, demoralize us, to stop us in our tracks. And I for one will be DAMNED if I'm going to give the bastards the satisfaction. You want to curl up in a ball and wimper, fine. But I don't think most Americans are going to give up that easily. Life goes on, and by God it SHOULD! Forget bombs and tanks: you want to fight them? Just keep living your life, same as always. That IS what they hate us for, right? That IS what they were trying to stop? They've stolen enough lives. They're NOT getting mine.

In trying to keep an open mind. And I wanted to hear both sides of this issue. I visited the PFO and found where Willow had this to say. "Any members coming here to promote fund raising of an obvious self serving purpose will be banned and NEVER allowed back. You want to help - Make the check payable to Red Cross. I am disgusted at those wanting to make a profit from this tragedy. This is not open for discussion, I will close this statement - grief earns a far different direction then this." So it appears that Willow is also a flaming ass hole. I would consider it an honor too be banned from that place. I won't be going back again, EVER!

I think x2000 has said it best. Thanks for your understanding and support.

Attached Link: http://www.fool.com/news/2001/list010912.htm

Also on a positive note re: the tragedy. this page has gathered a lot of links to sites that offer ways to help in the aftermath. http://www.fool.com/news/2001/list010912.htm

Sorry folks. I feel I must move this thread to the C&D forum. It's really getting nasty and doesn't deal with Poser. I have been on Grey and Willow's *hit list for longer than almost anyone here. So I agree with their acts being business as usual (insert profanity here). But I am sworn to uphold the policies of this site. And that means keeping rants about other people (no matter how deserving they are) in the proper forum. I hope you all understand. And don't think I'm defending them. Because I'm not. ScottA

No offense taken, Scott. I posted it here because it dealt with a snub to the Poser community. This latest embarrasment comes from someone who enjoys portraying himself in a light that he is some sort of personal spokesman for Kupa, CL, Daz, and Egi.sys. Moving it to C&D is quite fine, the more who get to read it, the merrier. :)

People, I cannot CONDONE what the PFO did - I think it was reprehensible - but I can UNDERSTAND it. Grey is as rabidly anti-EdgeNet and anything concerning it as the terrorists are anti-American and anything concerning IT. He overreacted, something he is VERY prone to do, and is being chastised for it. That should be enough - there is enough tragedy out there that we need no petty stone throwing here! If George weren't a MODERATOR here, I believe he would have just gotten a warning, BTW - as I did once, for trying to help someone find something they were looking for there, but he's part of "the establishment," and thus "unforgiveable." I don't agree with their decision, but can understand why they made it. Tasteless and dumb though it may be, the PFO IS their site, and they DO have the right to ban whomever they want for whatever reason.

But what happens when there's no one left to ban? Ian and Willow, smug as can be, proud of themselves for ridding the PFO of all of the unimportant (in their opinion) people in the world will sit on their imaginary thrones and pat themselves on the back on a job well done. I think Daz and CL need to pay attention. Consumers are angry. I have heard talks of boycotts.

Has anyone phoned or seen Ian and/or Willow and got a direct statement why he did it?

"Any members coming here to promote fund raising of an obvious self serving purpose will be banned and NEVER allowed back. You want to help - Make the check payable to Red Cross. I am disgusted at those wanting to make a profit from this tragedy. This is not open for discussion, I will close this statement - grief earns a far different direction then this." all "profits" are going directly to the ones who need it - not the vendors or the store! not one single penny is being kept for any reason!!! and vendors aren't just donating items either, but money from their store that they'd already made before this happened!! the only ppl profiting from this are those who need the aid. i asked for this relief fund so that we could help those in nyc and wash. dc. - how else was a canadian, grief stricken and sickened by these terrorist activities, to help? we couldn't even walk across the bridge to donate blood. the only thing we could do was offer money.... if we had the liquid assets available, we'd have given directly to the red cross too, but then, if we had the liquid assets available, we would be putting all our creations in freestuff!! this seemed like a good solution, motivated only by the desire to help, not out of some machiavellian plot involving greed! okay. there have been some survivors rescued, which is wonderful news :) and a silver lining to the dark cloud of the PA crash is that apparently, the passengers died as heroes. slight comfort, but very laudable! they were all any parent could ask for!

http://www.poserforum.net/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002500 Is this statement suppose to be Willow's response to this whole issue? If so, how very lame....

You've got to be kidding me.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

for a long time I thought the poser wars were just personal bickerings of a few people. I still think this, and probably all sides have valid reasons for feeling as they do. But in times like this, where so many members in all these forums have lost loved ones and/or friends and are hurting, its no time to attack people for old grudges. I used to visit the PFO forum from time to time - I won't be doing that anymore. They haven't even the balls to leave up the posts in their forum and take the fire for their management actions. They just ban people and delete threads and think like an ostrich it will all go away. They believe they can rewrite their forum history in Orwellian fashion. That's not a forum I want to support. I never liked 1984-style censorship tactics in forums and will not start supporting them now. I never posted there because I know my philosophy about art is vastly different than theirs, and my philosophy about forum management is also diametrically different than theirs. I saw enough disturbing posts from them regarding their censorship of nudity in poser art a year ago that made me think that's not a place for me to be. Sure they have the right to kick people out - anyone can act as the dictator of their own website - we also have the right not to support them with our knowledge and presence. Which is what I will do, boycott the site. I guess they will be happy the bandwidth goes down, lol. But the value of a forum is the knowledge and talents that its participants contribute - my knowledge or talents will not be contributed there.

Attached Link: http://http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/forum.mv?Announcements_News+read+8999768987#1000341517

A bit of info for those who don't know. I guess with the huge uprising of people on my behalf and others I am no longer banned from ErrorCode or the PFO's site. n8, an Admin at PFO made a public statement on this at 3D Commune. Needless to say I'm not to happy that someone else had to basicly speek on Grey's behalf. But that is fine and I will no longer persue any replies on this matter as I hope you do as well. It's over. Personally I, like I had mentioned before don't care if I'm banned. The whole essance of my initial post was one from the heart for the victims, famlies, friends and basicly everyone on the events that transpired this week. Since monitarly I cannot offer much help in these days of sadness I try and do what I can with the resources I have and is exactly what I did and will continue to do. I know there's been alot of you wishing to do something but for your reasons cannot. Making a banner, posting your feelings, saying a prayer or even lending a helping hand to a fellow member durring this time is a wonderful gesture that will not be overlooked. We are a family of artists and yes we have our occasional problems but we are still a family. We come from all walks of life, religion, races, countries and states yet we all share a common goal and interest. It make you wonder how things as bad as the other day can happen when in a small place in our world such as Renderosity and other sites like this have thousands of members each day come and join, mingle and share peacefully with each other. Hopefully the past weeks events are over and nothing like that ever happens again. Though it's an impossible wish to be granted. With this I'm done with the matters of myself, Grey and the PFO topic. It is over...I'm going back to doing what I love and getting back to work. Peace, GeorgeD

Charlie Brown, I think you made a very astute observation. Grey is as riddled with irrational hatred and prejudice, as any terrorist, and so acted like one himself, perhaps. It is a shame :( Such sorrow at this time, when we should all pull together, his immediate kneejerk reaction was to let his hatred overtake his good sense, yet again.

Well to my surprise I decided to go over to ErrorCode and try and meet up with a few of the PFO members and smooth things over and what did I get..nothing..I'm still Banned! That's what I get for trusting someone's word.

The PFO has proved time and time again that their interest are only in the area of promoting themselves...They truly have no interest in helping to promote the overall Poser community...It really is a shame that this thread even needed to be created based on the original subject matter...But I am glad it was brought to the public's attention here since all of us here now know, in times of terrible crisis they can not be depended on for any assistance regarding the Poser community at large or maybe one its personal members....I for one am very disappointed that they continue to recieve the support from some of the software companies that play such an important part in our having Poser to work with...I hope that will change in the near future....Everyone here that has responded to Render's effort to help out should take great pride in whatever they did...At least we have the satisfaction to know that we were interested in helping out even if others were not...

Attached Link: http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/forum.mv?Poser+read+9000964139

Scott, despite any past differences I've had with you, I can not tell you how right you are in your statement... A thing that troubles me most is the fact of how this actually reflects on Curious Labs, Egi-sys and DAZ when some zealot (being polite here)runs around to other forums, acting as if they are some sort of spokesmen for CL and DAZ and then becomes rude to members of those forums... which can be witnessed on the Commune in the thread where people expressed concerns about the new Online Store that Curious Labs will include in Poser and how it might affect sites that rely on their Online Stores to offset the costs to maintain those sites (which can be read by following the link provided). I... ...well, what can I say that all of you don't already know. I can say this... I will always offer any kind of support that I can to Renderosity or the 3D Commune, despite any differences that I have had in the past. That is what Community means... it may've taken me a long time to get it into my thick skull, but at least I haven't forgotten the meaning of it as some, obviously have... or never knew to begin with. Jack

LordsWarrior, "We're a community of artists...not a lynch mob." Oh how wrong you are my friend, you haven't been around here for a while. This place forms lynch mobs, witch hunts and crucifies people on a fairly regular basis, but it's usually their own members. I'd post links to the threads, but it seems all the Complaint and Debate topics before 8-6-01 have been deleted except for three....... Members here have even caused Morphworld to close not once, but twice, although it has been opened again. Not to mention chasing away some of the most respected people in the Poser community. You'll get used to the name calling and ignorant posts like most of the ones above, it's gotten to be pretty much the norm around here when there's a hot topic. Even with the country in crisis and thousands dead, this is the kind of thing you get here. There are some terrific people here, but there are a lot that aren't, as witnessed by most of the posts this thread. I wish you luck. Pariah, in reference to your last post, what, are you 8 years old? Coldrake

FYI Coldrake is a long time PFO supporter who posts there on a regular basis. Thank you Coldrake. For speaking up for them. We need to have both sides of every issue voiced. Otherwise we will be considered one sided here. Of course I don't agree at all with you. But we must be fair. Not biased. That's why we are successful here. We let everyone state their feelings. ScottA

Please can the flamage and napalmiage stop, and everybody concerned come together to sort out all these accusations and counter-accusations properly somewhere in some sort of open court and get the matter resolved?

"Pariah, in reference to your last post, what, are you 8 years old?" My reply was a little childish, yes, so out of respect for ScottA, rcook, and myself, I have deleted the post. It is quite hard to uphold a mature attitude when you are dealing with elementary-school-mentality-sandbox-bullies who kick people out of their playland just because they don't agree with their mindset. I hope that the PFO elite realise just how deep of a hole they've dug for themselves this time.

I deleted mine also Pariah. I agree. Now is not the time for any of us to be arguing. ScottA

Despite a desire to not aggravate others and a need I have (as many others) to be supporting and unified in this of all times, I am not feeling unified with the PFO! This was surely a time to put aside differences and to do what could be done. It is more than likely that Ian and Willow never followed the thread to see that the money was going directly to those needing it. They saw only "Renderosity" and their hatred boiled. As it was said here in a previous post it is much like the hatred of those who destroyed so many lives. I for one am on my way to delete all my free stuff offerings at the PFO, I want nothing to do with them. I do not want MY name affiliated with those who hate without question. It would seem that this is a good way for them to lose most all of their free items...

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Geez I wasn't going to post here again on this issue but now I feel the need to. Scott A, et all... As I said in my original post #12 above I quote: "I also wanted to ask you to please do the right thing here and not lash out at Ian for what he did. I'm not defending him or what happened but I personally think that in light of what happened today that we all try to do the right thing and start somewhere. I was the one asking for the community to ask Ian nicely to reinstate George's status at the PFO. Banning the PFO or boycotting it or asking EGI to not host him anymore or whatever isn't the solution. The solution is to band together for once towards a common goal." End Quote. As I've told Ian in several site mails back and forth, I don't really know him, the past history or the PFO or Geroge D for that matter. All I was asking for was for us to see beyond the past and reinstate George as a gesture of good will in light of the horror we have all experienced over the last few days. Not for the community to band together to rid ourselves of the PFO or to argue or fight. Like I've told Ian and many others, maybe I'm naive but I see no reason why we all can't co-exsist and just agree to disagree out of respect for those that lost their lives needlessly and for those that are about to go forth and defend our freedoms. I for one will not get into name calling, public lynch mobs or trying to take someone down. These are horrendous times and we need to stick together and not fight amongust ourselves. Today is a day for remembering and a time to reflect and pray for those directly involved. Just my 2 cents. Mark

Emails sent.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Attached Link: http://www.poserforum.net/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002511

They kissed and made up last Saturday. For further info, see the thread at PFO Community forum for Ian's apology, George's reply and Kupa's comments.

I think it was all of the emails that made it happen...They would never admit to any wrong doing on their part...

Yeah, I saw that, Nance. And?

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Just passing on the link. No "and" implied here.