hi there - dina or victoria (2) one silly question: i have a problem: which one should i buy: victoria 2 or dina? what are the differences? is there anywhere a comparison table? which one looks and moves more naturally? do i need new clothing for them too? maybe someone has some expriences with both ...?? thanks

Get vicky 2!!!!
shes easier to pose/animate
there is already a wealth of accessories for vicky
for sale and in renderosity freestuff
and she has way more built in custom morphs than Dino
and the default vicky ( Eyebrows and all)
is a better looking model in my opinion

My website

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Since i own both, I'd say get them both they each have qualities the other doesn't.

Dina is newer. There may not be so many Clothes, Poses, etc for Dina. Many people absolutely love Victoria and hate Dina. Personally, I like the looks of both of them. I have Dina, but have yet to do anything with her. I have gathered so much stuff lately that I can barely keep up with her. I have a whole CD of stuff to go with Victoria. I only have the Dina character. So you can see the present limits. If I do any Dinah pictures, she is liable to be naked. I don't mind doing naked pictures, but I also like to have more pictures of women with clothes. You have a chance to reach a wider audience that way. I think Dina is getting more and more support these days. But she won't have "fully arrived" till there is a wealth of free stuff for her.

I agree to wolf.I would prefer viccy if i had to decide .

thank you for your oppinions and the quick answers. :) just one more question: i read that dina's mesh is a completly rebuilt one with much more facets and vertices. how about victoria 2: does she have more details in geometry than victoria 1 and dina (and posette)? thanks :) jenay

Victoria 2 is definately a rework and improvement over Victoria 1... I know there are many more morphs, etc. If you read the "commercials" for Dinah, she is billed as the most technologically advanced, etc. etc. I don't know how true that is. I am impressed by both Victoria and Dina

I don't know a thing about geometry/vertices--I just know that Vicky 2 is incredibly versatile. With a couple of dial twists, you can morph her through a pretty much infinite variety of "looks:" her ethnicity, age, and build are all easily adaptable. There's lots of after-market stuff available for her, both free and otherwise, with more coming online all the time. She's easy to work with and looks great--even in some fairly, um, extreme poses. I don't own Dina and don't intend to buy her--she just doesn't have Vicky's appeal, IMO: weird body, weird face.

Dina takes a lot more work to look human, IMO. Her shoulders, even with the fix, look strange, and the hips are NOT realistic, especially with the water ballons strapped to her chest. The few realistic looking Dina renders I've seen have the character at an angle to hide several body issues. Vicki took a bit to make the face pretty, but overall the body is more realistically proportioned, though mroe athletic than most females. It's easier to make her more ordinary than Dina, especially if you get Vicki 2, but even Vicki 1 is okay. The best thing to do is to look at the postings in this forum for Vicki and Dina renders/textures, etc. to decide which one you like more.

Absolutely Victoria 2. She's easier to work with, has loads more stuff and she's definitely more beautiful. Dina takes a lot of work just to look even normal. The advantage with Dina is that her mesh is fantastic and takes morphs very well.

i read that dina's mesh is a completly rebuilt one with much more facets and vertices. how about victoria 2: does she have more details in geometry than victoria 1 and dina (and posette)?<<< I don't have Dina, so can't comment on her. But Victoria 1 and Victoria 2 use the same geometry - the improvements in V2 are all in the CR2. Loads more morphs, much more versatility etc. And Vicky2 is loads better than posette. If posette is all you're used to working with you won't believe the difference (I didn't, when I first got Vicky2.)

Vicky 2 with Voluptuous Vicky 2 package is the best combo IMHO. You can make almost any kind of woman you want plus with Volup Vicky's magnets you can get almost any piece of clothes to fit. The only use I have for posette now are background people in my renders.

Vicky 2 -- very versatile. Dina always looks like Dina, at least in any render I've seen of her. Mike

It really all comes down to what your looking to do with it don,t buy either one just because everyone else does . I have both so I can say If you want to dive right in and start posing , making images , and making characters go with Vicki 2 plus it's easier on your computer . What your paying for with Dina is potential . It doesn't have the morphs or clothes to keep up with Vicki yet but the mesh is a blast to work with if you like making morphs , and hopefully there will be more free stuff for it eventually .

"i read that dina's mesh is a completly  rebuilt one with much more facets and vertices."

This is true - but it turns out that it isn't really making much of a difference to people who need/want to get something done.

Victoria has fewer faces, but they are in all the right places when needed. her mesh clearly shows an understanding of those places that need more detail and those places that don't. When I do need Vicki to have a little smoother look (super close ups of compound body curves) I pull her into make and let it smooth the mesh for me... it looks great.

Dina's mesh has more data points, but they are machine generated and not necessarily optimized in any way. Further, the machine that did the scanning (in my mind) had either serious calibration issues or lacked any significant level of detail - she looks a lot more like someone who was sculpted out of silly putty.

For me, I just can't justify taking the time it would take to "fix" Dina's mesh. Hopefully the company that made her will be able to try again with better results and a better model (human) to base from.

If I was willing to spend a lot of time playing with morphs for a lesser known mesh I would still pick Vicki and do a smooth quad divide on here and go from there.

Dina was a good idea - but the result seems to have been heavily compromised to me.

Attached Link: http://www.dacort.com/

FYI, Dina's mesh was not generated by computer. DSI gave me a scan, but the scan was not usable directly. I ended up creating a new mesh around the scan, which was very painstaking. And the mesh is designed to have more geometry where it's needed. The transitions between high-res areas and lower-res areas are gradual on purpose, so that 3D modeler app smoothing commands will work better. As for her shape and her look, that was DSI's call. If it had been entirely up to me she might have looked a little different. Dina could benefit from more community support, yes. That's up to all of you. I put out as much as I can for her, but I alone cannot compete in volume with the entire Poser community. Some people say Dina always looks like Dina, but there are only a few characters available now. Vicki has a ton of characters, and frankly, almost all look like Vicki to me no matter what anyone does to them, so that's a matter of opinion. Pam Cresswell has some garments for Dina. I also have the following clothing packs available: Basics Pack 1 Basics Pack 2 (new - should be in store soon) Flapper Dresses Valkyrie Outfit Changing Corset/Corset Dress Bikini (free) Amethyst (mermaid tail/textures) A technical comparison of Dina to some other figures is still up on my website.

Basic Pack 2...soon...what about a tiny little pic to show whats in it, dcort ?

Attached Link: http://www.dacort.com/products_basics_02.html

Sure thing, Skygirl. The pack includes a camisole top, pumps (which can also be flats), capri pants (which can also be bicycle shorts), and something I'm calling a VersaDress. The dress can be a dress or a sweater, with a choice of four different lengths, three different sleeve lengths, and three different neck styles. There are 36 possible combinations of geometries, which when you add in all of the style morphs results in almost limitless possibilities. It's a very versatile garment, hence the name. There is a Natalia version also with all the same features (pictured).

Dina is a DOG! I have both and Dina was a waste of money. Get Vicky2, she's fantasic.

Oh, looks good. Now only two things remain. 1) that its soon soon and 2) Dads visa card (what is the man thinking about. Going to Spain now when I need that little card of his) Sky :-)

dcort did a fine job with the mesh. The subject of the scan was the problem. Scarily enough, the real Dina DOES look like the mesh! A photograph of the real life Dina was posted. I can't find a more polite way to say this: Dina looks like a transgendered body builder with lots of (additional) plastic surgery. Both Vicki 1 and Dina needed additional morphs to really reach their potential. Between the two, I feel that Vicki's faults are less than Dina's, so I prefer her, but that's a personal choice. Dina is starting to mature, and I may give her another look a few months down the road, just as I did Vicki. As always, the best way to decide about Dina is to look at all the posts with Dina to decide if you can get the effects you need. Everything else is irrelevant.

dcort: "FYI, Dina's mesh was not generated by computer. DSI gave me a scan, but the scan was not usable directly. I ended up creating a new mesh around the scan, which was very painstaking."

I can imagine, and I have a lot of additional respect for the amount of work that must have entailed. I will be very interested to see what the "second generation" of this type of thing will yield.

dcort: "As for her shape and her look, that was DSI's call. If it had been entirely up to me she might have looked a little different."

I can certainly sympathize with your situation - one of the problems with giving a partner company so much control is that sometimes they don't use it well. We have had to pass up several chances to partner with companies because we simply couldn't let something we needed to be "right" rest in the hands of others.

Fortunately, thanks in part to this forum (Renderosity) we have begun talking to some people that we have hopes will prove to be perfect partners for us in several projects. (you know who you are!)

dcort: "That's up to all of you. I put out as much as I can for her, but I alone cannot compete in volume with the entire Poser community."

In the end, this is why I had to recommend that my company not invest in Dina. To us, she doesn't fill a niche that was particularly empty. The higher resolution doesn't help us in any useful way and her looks (for whatever reason) are simply not attractive enough for us to use. When we looked at it, and the history of alternate poser characters one thing became clear...

You can't really go wrong sticking with Daz.

While we do spend a fair amount of time touching up some of Vicki's flaws, it is much less than the time we would have to invest in creating items for Dina that are readily available for Vicky.

That is not in any way an attack on what you have done with Dina, it is a wonderful effort and I think she has really given some in the community exactly what they needed... but not us.

gg77: "Dina is a DOG!"

While I don't think I would use that term, I certainly agree with the sentiment... for the same reason we never used Vicki 1 much we simply don't have any professional uses for a character who is esthetically challenged.

We-e-ell, I looked at a lot of images and artwork before deciding for myself, and I picked Vicky 2. My reasons were that I would be concentrating mostly on faces, and it seems that Vicky 2 is far more versatile there; plus there are more people making morphs for Vicky 2 (and more people I can share mine with once I ever get something worthwhile). She's a bit tomboyish in the body whereas Dina appears to be more the sex kitten 'right out of the box', as it were, but on the whole, I think Vicky is prettier, and her body is very changeable. Plus, there's the wonderful advantage of Vicky's morphing clothes pack. It's great: not only can you fit clothes to a figure you've chaged dramatically, but you can use the morphs to fit the clothes to the figure in extreme poses and such. I don't tend to do nude work, so this was a major purchasing factor for me. I don't have Dina, so I can't talk about any direct experience with her, but Vicky2 is incredibly versatile and well worth the price. She's an excellent figure and I have become very fond of her in the little time I have had her.

To all doggish commentators: I have two dogs, and they are beautiful.

Am I the only person that feels that, when looking at the base (unmorphed) model, Posette is actually the cutest?

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

No. I like Posette a lot, and as far as her body shape goes, she's great.

Hi Peoples'; Geez...I agree with both Strangechilde, (two dogs) and Valender, (posette out of the box has always been cuter). Hi jenay; My apologies for replying off track there but gg77 irked me with a passion with that remark. Maybe it's cause I have two dogs too, and they are cute also ;-) Anyways, my take on this? Dina, although perhaps she is different with various qualities that some folks may actually look for, if you are looking for a logical choice based on availability, resources, quality standard set by the long time Vicky has been around, extensions, such as the various geometric files that make up Vicky and thus are a part of so many other various character clones and spawns or sisters and children, then Victoria is the ways to much diversity ;-) I suppose it would be like a choice between a Honda and a Subaru car, (hope that is a good comparison), neither car is bad, in fact both cars hold much in quality value and style and potential, however if you look at the fringe benefits and the amount of available additions and extensions and just how many more are around and how many folks have one compared to the other, it does make your choice somewhat easier logically. Unless you don't mind waiting, or getting something that is at this time very functional and rare, but may not allow you the same poser landscape of things already at your beckoning the moment you got Vicky, it is your choice. Looks you cannot base it on really, cause Vicky was not at all a pleasant sight when she first came to be and it has taken quite some time to get her as appealing as she is today, and still those knees, I wish those knees would be better. Some folks have called Victoria a cross-eyed anorexic amazon.....others have called Dina a huge wrestler with shoulders like a bull. They never are supposed to stay as you first see them on the screen, it's not like posette where what you see is what you get, Victoria and Dina are artistic manipulations that take effort and time to accomplish, not just a prop up on a shadow and render away. It's a matter of how many morphs they have at their disposal as well or what you can do with them. And at this time, as mentioned above, Vicky has way, way more all around. Cheers and good luck.

you're not alone Valandar. i think that's why Eve has quite a following still. she looks like Posette but is jointed similar to Vicki (so she poses easier) and she's a free addon to Posette!

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a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part

Have always thought posette was cute. But she is stuck at the 18 year old barbie doll stage almost. Never liked eve since she posed badly to me since there was no poses that worked on her. Vicki's go goofy one way and posette's go goofy the other way and she couldn't wear clothes. But that is all a seperate issue. I say go for Vicki. Never been a big fan of Dina's unfortunately. Not saying it isn't well made but she doesn't please my eye for anything other than a variety person in the background and I can do that with Vicki.

From a purely practical point of view, I would have to say Vicky 2 also. I have Vic 1 & 2, and am still in love with Posette :). I think one of the smartest things that Daz did when Vic 2 came out was make her Vic2P4 :) (Gee now I know that wasn't original, it had really already been done with a while back with Vic1) anyway, it was a good thing to see. Made Vic 2 even more versatile. So we have all of Posette's free stuff, plus Vic 1's stuff plus all of Vic's textures. Dina is the effort of a lot of blood, sweat and tears from a man that I admire very much for his talent, dCort :) He is one of the best I think. However....Dina is fighting an uphill battle...very little freestuff, seems everything that came out for her initially was for sale (and I'm still seeing this, most is for sale not free, not good) Can't do a whole lot with just a bikini Well, the reason I don't have Dina right now is that after already shelling out money twice now for textures to go with two models that I've purchased, I really didn't want to have to do it a third time, especially since I didn't see much else coming out in support for her, clothing wise, morph wise etc...that and there just wasn't enough morphs built into her to be able to get her to a body shape that I wanted to work with.(that and there is sooooo much out there for Vicky, both free and for sale) So, for me she just was not a good buy. Simple as that. I simply don't have the money to support two different models, so Vicky won for me. I will say this tho'...I love the way that Dina's joints don't "break" when she is posed. She is much more "fluid" then Vicki is and does seem to require less postwork (from what I have been told and have seen) in the joint areas then Posette or Vicky. She also has more meat on her bones (not talking chest here) Vicky has always struck me as being a bit gangly and boney until you work with her body for a while. But... for pure versatility and ease of use at this time, I would have to say Vicky 2.

And excatly here I guess Pendarian touch a very strong reason for people to prefere Vicky...money. Lots of you have used a lot of money on Victoria and dont wanna start over with Dina. You can pick up a lot of free stuff for Vicky, but not for Dina. Im compleatly new to Poser. What you see in my gallery and my homepage is just about what Ive ever have done with Poser. I got Dina simply because I like her way of looking and when I work with her, Poser gets kind of friendly to a newbe like me. Dina is easy to pose...she dont break into stranges pieces. I dont have to do any postwork on her body or face and the stuff I have for her (basic pack 1, valkyrie, Amethyst, corset) is worth every dollar and more too. It fit Dina perfect, if I was not able too I didnt have to change textures. It is already clothes. Not that stranges plastic-something I have for Posette and Vicky 1. Dont know, but to me Dina have been a joy. A chance to start learning that very difficult program you call Poser. And money ? Well, Dina is not an expensive figure and I must admit that when I look at dcorts stuff I really wonder why he sell at those low prices.

hi there - thank you for all the usefull tips and hints. that helps me in my decision very much further... i love posette (in fact nearly all my works in my gallery are based on her - with some morphs here and there), but the broken knees and elbows are annoying ... i also did a few renderings with eve (by arduino): very versatile. then i bought victoria 1 - she came without any textures and i was a bit disappointed, but i found much stuff throughout the web (thanks for all :) soon i found she has almost the same problems with broken knees ... the very first renderings were ... ummm ... not so good. but at last i created a character as a starting point for more works. here is a small pic for you ... (wave hair by Kozaburo) thanks a lot :) special thanks to dacort's comparison table and pics - very usefull:) jk

A lot of good comments in this thread, as would be expected in one of the better forums around (Feel free to feel proud of yourselves!) Anyway, I got Dina yesterday so I can't really say how she will perform in the long run, but from what I've seen and done so far I'm satisfied. I can only agree with RadArt about the way you should look at these complex models. It's a lot like any other piece of software: If it is very easy to use you will most likely find it hard to get it to do more complex things. If it is a complex tool, you might have to spend more time to get results, but those results are often closer to what you wanted from the start. I'm sure that Dina will be a very useful tool in my toolbox and after reading this discussion I'll probably add Victoria to it soon. //PikeWake

I got Dina awhile ago, and just last night got around to trying her out. I was pretty disappointed that there is not a lot of free stuff for her. As you can see from this picture (and my crude attempt to copy and paste), she looks a bit strange, lonely, naked and bald. I don't want to spend a lot of money just to get her clothes and hair. I have Vicky, Mike, Musclebound Mike, Voluptuous Vicky, Massive Mike, etc. etc.

Ronknight, if you dont wanna spent money on Dina its your own choise that she is strange, lonely, naked and bald. And free stuff...why are you people EXPECTING free stuff for a figure ? Its great when somebody make free stuff, but after all, it cant be something that we just can expect to be around. And...ehhh...why arent people crazy about trying to figure out how to make your own stuff ? Isnt it a little more fun to make a pic that contains elements you have made your self ?

Skygirl, My name is Ron knightS. Thank you. As for free stuff, let's see. It seems a sign of a figure's popularity is how much stuff is available, both free and "commercial." Dina is bucking against an established figure: Vicky. Dina needs all the help she can get. One selling point for Dina is that she costs less. Well she won't cost less in the end if you can't even put any hair or clothes on her for free. Do we expect free stuff? Not in the sense of children who expect a present all the time. But yes, I think we can expect to judge the popularity of a figure, and whether we can afford to invest in her, by the amount of free stuff that is available. After all money is hard to come by these days. It helps if we can get a jump start with freebies, then we figure that Dina will be worth our investment, and spend some money when we get it. Some times you need to give a little before you receive. As it stands, I got a good enough start for Victoria and Mike, from freebies, and I know they'll be around quite awhile. So I figure any money I spent on them is going to be worth it.

Dina is a new figure. She have only been around for a few month. Give her time and I suppose free stuff will come for her too. I havent thought about the getting-a-jump-start as you call it. Im thinking about the day when I dont have to write hair by, clothes by etc under my renders. The day my pic really is MY pic...like when I work with Bryce. I know itll take time and hart work, but its possible and I can wait. We just seem to like to work in two different ways. And your name...IM SO SORRY...I didnt know Knights is a name...thought that it was men killing dragons and saving beautiful ladies....SORRY !!!

Hi again; Pendarian, post #31, very well said all around you make some very valid additions to ponder over. Good going... Cheers.

Thanks RadArt, I try and occasionally make some sense :)

I love them both (Dina and V2), and would not gladly give up either. It is not either one or the other, but what works best for each project. Dina is a dream to morph and pose, V2 has a bigger wardrobe. Dina has a smaller wardrobe, but Dan puts more thought and planning into his clothes models, and each piece can do so many things, it is amazing :-) variety is the spice......

Skygirl, no great big deal about the name. Most people forget the S. Look at it this way: Many people's last names are most likely related to the jobs their ancestors once performed: 1.) Carpenter 2.) Squire 3.) Knight (I can't think of other examples!) At any rate, somewhere in our history, we have the S on the end of the name.

Ohhh Ron, then maybe some of ancestors was knights !!! How exciting !!! You should try to find out if its so ! Uh, and thanks for not being mad because of my not-knowing-other-countrys-names :-)

I think Dina is a very good investment for the money, and she poses much better than Vickie, and dCort did a great job on the mesh, but... When you first open the figure, she is scary, just like Vickie I was. I don't know how to say this, but they are both the kind of person you wouldn't normally want to see nude! Vickie I inspired me to make Supermodel Vickie, basically because I just couldn't stand the looks of her. Bear in mind this was before Vickie II surfaced. All of the regular Poser figures (not including mine, of course ;-) ) suffer from basic proportion flaws, in my eyes, anyway - and I'm including the Posette here too - they all have much too large breasts, too long thighs and too short shins. In addittion, Dina's feet seem a little small, Vickies' a little too large. The problem with guys like me making stuff for Dina is with the same amount of work you can do the item for Vickie, and have a bigger market. Plus the sizes are pretty different, as she is shorter, which hurts doing a "dual" version, like I did on the French Maid set, as while SMV and Vickie have different shapes they can use the same CR2, at least. Plus she hurts my eyes, just like Vickie does! However, I may do some stuff for SMD, at least, just to see how it goes.

Halleluja ! Im not alone...you said it Jim !!! You said that Vicky have big feet !!! Ok, and hands too ??? Yes ?

Yep, now that you mention it, her hands are also too big. Dina, on the other hand ;-) has the nicest hands I've ever seen, her best feature by far. The Posette's hands and feet are about the right size, I'd say. SMV's feet are also too big, BTW, as I wanted to keep them "Vickie size", but I fixed her hands. If I recall, when Vickie came out she was touted as being copied from a real person, too, just like Dina. I think in both cases they just picked the wrong person.

Actually as a vendor my sales for Dina's version of Basics Pack 1 have been far better than the same package for Vicki. The same is true for the Natalia version. I think this is because the Vicki market is glutted with all kinds of stuff, whereas the Dina market is wide open. So even though the Dina market may be smaller, the share of that market an individual is able to capitalize on is greater. For me the effort is definitely worth it, to the point where I am pretty much of a mind to forget about Vicki and concentrate on making stuff for Dina and Natalia.

Now lil Sky is clapping its hands again Jim, glad to hear that you agree with me. I was starting thinking it was me alone since nobody ever said a word about it when they compared Vicky with Dina....no no no, lets not start that comparing-thing all over again. Then I just wondered why and thought it was maybe just me. Dcort, I know this will not surprise you, but lil Sky really think that you should forget about Vicky too. Hey, everybody else makes stuff for her. She have everything. Now sit down and make something pretty to pretty Dina :-) Everybody else....who is now Natalia ? Yeah, I can see her on dcorts pic, but who is she ? She dont look like any of the other girls.....

Natalia is my other figure. She's not any of the other girls. She's the one in the clothing picture of Basics Pack 2 earlier in the thread. She's slightly more hi-res than Vicki, but in the same neighborhood. I also use Natalia as a basis for some of my other figures, like Naga and Melusine. Natalia's got most of the same features as Dina, full mouth interior, anatomical correctness, etc. but at a lower resolution.

Ok I wasn't going to show my Dina until I did my first image but this seems like a good time . Normally I don't do nude images but it's the only way to show the figure . what you see is a combination of my own morphs and the standard morphs . I have altered the base body style with morphs and made an alternate geometrie to base my morphs on . I'm working on the face right now I have created around 30 or so morphs just for the lips and nose . I had planned to sell this as an expansion to the figure , just body shaping morphs no character but I might give them away if I can find someone to host them . Plus I have to ask someone permission because I based her legs and hips on one of his figures and I wouldn't feel right posting without asking ( He is in this thread ). So let me know what you think . Does she look any better yet?

Hmmm....Natalia is yours too ?!? Dcort, you have a lot of girls to take care of :-) Anyway she is pretty too. You are good at making something new and different....dont know how to explain it...something not seen before. Something that makes Poser all new and exciting. Oh, and thanks for your reply :-)

Attached Link: http://www.thegrc.com

A little shameless self-promotion here. Cherry Blossom for Dina is now in the marketplace here. That's her in the back with Dina in the front of this render. IMHO she looks completely different from Dina. (She has custom morphs on just about every part of her body and face) Not better necessarily, because I don't mind Dina at all, but definitely a different look and an example of the versatility of Dina.

The catsuits shown here are available at www.renderotica.com (this is an adult site) or www.thegrc.com right now. Probably to come to the marketplace here later. Catsuits are extremely versatile. With transmaps and different textures, you can make a tremendous variety of clothing from lingerie to tops and pants.

I agree about Vicki's hands and feet (too big and not easy to make smaller) and that Dina's hands are very nice. Each character has its pluses and minuses. Neither is extremely attractive out of the box, although Vicki 2 is a definite improvement over Vicki 1. Yes, Vicki has a lot more available at the moment, but Dina is coming along.

And Dan is right about selling things for Dina. The market is wide open. For clothes, for characters, for textures, etc. How many more Vicki characters can the market bear?

markm,

Your Dina is looking good. Looks like maybe her breasts need a little more work. They've kind of flattened out.. That tends to happen when you try to make Dina's breasts smaller. It is fixable, but it takes a little work. Also, not sure if it is the pose or not, but her arms look too short. Love that abdomen!

Drop me a line at DTHUREGRIF@aol.com. DSI might be able to host the morph files for you should you decide to give them away rather than sell them.

Diane

Diane, this is of course only me, but I simply cant find Dinas catsuit at thegrc....what about a little hint, so even I can find it ??? :-)

I visited your site just now. I might suggest you lose the mandatory sign in. It is annoying when I just want to check out the site. I tried finding Dina stuff, and was disappointed there wasn't a "Dina Button." The search function didn't bring up thumbnails, so I'm reduced to going through every page of the clothing section. That's a bad idea. Maybe you could fix that problem?

You can go to the section about characters, find Dina. Here is a chance to see all related items for her. There is a link in the bottom of the first page called related-something :-)

Also if you click on the what's new button in the store, you'll see the catsuit thumb there. Ron, There is a DSI button on the sidebar that get you to all DSI and DSI related products (right now that is Dina and everything related to her, but soon there will be more). I apologize for not being more clear. Also, sorry about the mandatory sign up, but we had so many chargeback problems that we felt it necessary to do that. It has helped cut them down dramatically and that is a relief to us and our vendors. Right now, we don't have a way to allow people to just view the Miva store without being able to buy. If we can figure out a way to do that, we will. The search function does bring up the catsuit when you search for Dina, but it's on the second page. The link takes you directly to the product. If you put in dina catsuit, it gives you the catsuits link. Diane

Renderosity and other sites have ways to allow us to look around, even participate in forums without even thinking of buying things. I certainly don't remember giving any credit card info when I visited your site, since I'm not ready to buy anything from you. So I'm not sure how your mandatory signup could help you fight chargebacks. If anything, your procedures have caused me to mostly stay away from your site.

Nope, you don't have to give any personal info other than an email address to sign up, but we have found that chargebacks have decreased dramatically since we don't have the store wide open to the public. It gives us one more way to cross reference a charge. I realize it is somewhat of an inconvenience to have to sign up to look around, but at this point with the software we have, there's no other way for us to do it. Chargebacks are a very expensive problem that all the stores have to deal with, and we each have different ways of trying to cope with them. Online sales are not like brick and mortar sales where the card company is liable for the charges if a consumer refuses the charge or the card is stolen. For online sales, the merchant takes the entire risk. Not only do you lose the merchandise that was downloaded, but the card companies charge very high fees on top of the charged back amount and can add fines on top of that. We realize we may lose some customers because of this, but the cost of chargebacks was far outweighing the lost sales. I do appreciate your feedback and we are looking into other ways to handle this to protect ourselves and our vendors while making it easier for the customer. Diane

At least I found what I was looking for...the famouse catsuit. Thank a lot for your help, Diane :-)

I just joined Poserworld today, with a year's subscription. I had been considering this for some time, and researched extensively. I think all my needs will be met at Poserworld. I do appreciate your explanations. Best of luck with your business.

I have both Vicky II and Dina. For me the "biggest" drawback to Dina is the oversized breasts. Until I have time to take the trouble to make my own morphs (or some show up in a freestuff or store somewhere) I won't have much use for Dina. I've purchased the Cherry Blossom character and while the breasts are more realistic they still end up looking a bit strange to me. If I had to make and either/or decision it would be Vicky II without any hesitation. Hopefully any future DSI figures won't be based on a model with absurd fake breasts. John

Sorry about this, shameless promotion and all that, but here is my take on what Dina and Vickie should have looked like. ;-) I should add that I had lots of trouble scaling down Dina's breasts, it is much easier to make 'em bigger than going the other way, Dina's very fine mesh made it especially tough. My feeling, incidently, is it would be better to start out with a "perfect" character and morph her "ordnary", rather than trying to go the other way. Similar to the way Hollywood will take a pretty, young, actress and make her up as a old lady, but you can't really do the reverse!

Oh, the mirror is in Freestuff! With instructions! ;-)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=116117&Start=1&Artist=jenay&ByArtist=Yes

hi there :) thanks to Jim B. for the mirror prop. read the instructions - very usefull. i posted 2 mirror pics some days ago - made me almost crazy to adjust the mirrored poses. at the end, i did the scene with the person and properties twice... have a look at them ...

I'm sure there many different opinions from many different people. My opinion as a newbie is that of Ronknights. Give me as much free stuff as possible to help get me started. In time, I will be (hopefully) one the many talented people posting the free stuff instead of downloading it.

Oh, I forgot... Although I don't have her yet I plan on getting Vicki2 and much of my decision is based upon free stuff. So there!

Hmmm...now Im confused again about that free stuff thingie. Why is that you people dont wanna make what you need your self ? Dcort makes wonderful clothes for Dina, BUT I still hope to see the day I dont need to buy it :-)

No wait...what I really want to know is this: Do you people really say: I buy Vicky because of all the free stuff ???? You cant be seriouse about that ?!? Uhhh, my poor head is spinning....you really buy Vicky because of the free stuff ?

Sorry Skygirl, about the head spinning... but all of the free stuff for Victoria is a deciding factor. The simple fact is that Victoria is the most popular add on human figure for poser. Period. She probably will be until Daz, or Curious Labs themselves release another human female add on figure. I admire Dan's (dcort's) work, I own Natalia, and I plan on getting Dina. But I bought Victoria first. Why did I buy her first? Availability of additional products, both free and for sale. Natalia is a great figure, and she was my third add on human figure, right behind Michael. And if dcort ever releases a male figure similar in size/style to Natalia, I'll add him to my figure library as well. Why was Natalia second instead of Dina? Again availability of additional products. Free is always going to be better than for sale... I don't mean quality wise, I mean by appeal. You could have the best figure ever made... ever... that no matter how you posed it, or how you morphed it, or what you did to it, the mesh would never break, and it would look spectacular, and it could even be dirt cheap, but unless there are products available to support it, it will not sell as well as a figure that has additional stuff to go along with it. I've got stuff for sale, and stuff for free... in fact I only have one free thing for Victoria, and two for Natalia... and I plan on doing more free stuff for Natalia... why? And why not sell it? Well, because I think Natalia is a great figure, and I think more people should pick her up, and having more free stuff available always helps... oh, slightly off topic, but just in case you people didn't know, Natalia V2 comes with a P4 version just like V2, that can wear all of the P4 clothing... this is such a HUGE bonus... if Mobius had included this feature in his Solondra V2 I would've picked her up too. But back to my point... I don't think anyone expects people to do everything for free... I certainly don't. But I do think that it's fair to say that all the free stuff available for Vicky is a factor that makes people choose her over some of the other figures available. Okay, I'm done rambling now... :)

Oh...well...ok...and thanks Cin- :-) !!! He, kind of strange to think about this: Somebody could actually sit somewhere and really want Dina, but because she is a new figure, that person buys another figure. Uhhh, guess I should start thinking about something else than this buy stuff, free stuff, make stuff...guess my poor brain works in an other way :-)

A figure is a component of Poser - and Poser is a system in every sense of the word. A ddeciding factor is the labor savings that come from being able to purchase or download free additional clothing, props and textures. Putting aside that I think Vicki2 is a superior figure technically and imagining that the figures are equal... The fact that I can easily purchase add-ons for Vicktoria is a huge labor savings for me.

Uhhh, but is it fun just to grab somebodys free stuff. Isnt it more satisfing to see your render contains so much of your own stuff as you able to make ? Well, is it just me alone feeling this way ?

Skygirl, Can you understand the entire concept of Poser? It is the fact that people like myself can make great pictures without being able to "draw a human body and clothes all by myself?!" I can use figures created by others, and use my own creativity in putting it all together. Can you understand that everyone is not skilled in creating their own clothes and props, let alone their own characters from scratch? Can you understand just how expensive Poser is to begin with? Can you understand that once you buy one thing, you still need to get all the other stuff that goes with it? If you buy Mike or Victoria, you don't get their textures or clothes in the same package. All this stuff adds up to a huge expense. If people like me are not so skilled in the creation of these items, we hope to find free stuff to make up for our own lack of talent. I do believe the Free Stuff is a vital resource that lets some of us stay with Poser when we'd otherwise quit due to lack of money. I've never had a program like Poser before, where there is such a great amount of resources, community, and yes Free Stuff to support the software. This makes a tremendous difference to me. Look at it another way: Many fine artists can get a good start, get recognition, by first providing Free Stuff. They can use that experience and popularity later when they "go commercial." I do believe most any decent artist would jump at this chance. So maybe now you have a better understanding? I am frankly surprised you didn't understand before.

Sky is jumping up and down the floor Ron I do understand. And I do know the value of making free stuff. Since april 2001 Ive been giving away between 200 and 250 Bryce models. Buildings, sky presets and materials. Something like everything I made with Bryce ended up as free stuff. Ive learned a lot that way. No doubt about that. But one of the things I also learned was the joy and pleasure to create my own stuff...creating pics that was mine and only mine...pic Ive been able to sell. All I want is to be able to do the same with Poser. Just that...Am I ambisiouse ? Maybe. Am I the only one ? I doubt about it.

Skygirl, Believe me, I admire you for your abilities and talent. However, let me relate to you one very important personal discovery. I learned that everyone doesn't have my "God-given" talents or my desires or ambitions. Not everyone wants to acquire them either. I learned to understand "where others come from," and that helped me get along better with people. So it's great you can and want to do such things. Some of us can't. If you understand that, then it will help our conversation. In your previous posts, it appeared that you didn't understand.

Ron, ok...all over again. Free stuff IS really a great thing no matter if you cant or will not make your own stuff. Guess we agree so far, right ? What you and I see when we look at free stuff is the difference. You see something usefull. I see something that say: So what lil Sky, can you do this too ? Both way is ok. What does this have to do with the Vicky / Dina conversation ? Everything. For me Dina is a challenge. To you she dont have things enough yet. Again both of us have an ok opinion. Does we agree so far ?

Here is a quote from one of your previous messages: "Hmmm...now Im confused again about that free stuff thingie. Why is that you people dont wanna make what you need your self ? Dcort makes wonderful clothes for Dina, BUT I still hope to see the day I dont need to buy it :-)" I was merely explaining what you didn't seem to understand. Hey, Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

HA HA HA, happy this and that to you too. Seems you dont like lil Skys with big ambitions. Lets ended here and make peace in this thread too :-)