Ok! I've been trying to make REAL looking waterfalls since Bryce first came to PC but I am not satisfied with my own or any of the ones in tutorials or for that matter I haven't seen a real looking one done in ANY 3d app. The closest I've seen was a demo in Hash animation master using particle effects with collision checking on so water flowed around rocks and splashed when meeting obstructions. I am wondering if the the following solution makes sense; Select all objects EXCEPT the waterfall/water plane(where it lands) and do a mask render/save. Now do perspective render of selected objects and save. Cut real waterfall from either a picture(scanned photo) or use a movie of same and combine all in photoshop or painter. Does anyone know where I can get my mits on any images/movies of waterfalls/fountains/flowing water? Shots taken from front on would work best but that is too much to hope for. Sorry I seem to be ranting but I am determined to get it right once before I die (now antialiasing 12% done SNORE)... Any links, images or REAL CREATIVE advise will be appreciated.... tia thunderdon (:>)