Ok I've seen packs like the Boris Pack that has alot of very different faces for Michael, however I have not seen anything simmilar for Vicky. Every face I've seen for Vicky only looks slightly different from every other face I've seen. There are differences but they are so small that they all start to blend togeather after a while. Am I missing something? Is there a pack out there with alot of varied faces? I mean really varied. Anyone who has seen packs like the Boris Pack knows that those faces are so drastically different that you can really tell one from another. Thanks in advance. Mainly I'm looking to make some peopel that don't look so much like Vicky. I like all the body morphs just fine, I just need new heads.

I have a few at the marketplace, they are morph targets, not modelled in Poser. If you have any special requests, please let me know. :-) http://www.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?Who=Zrincx Zrincx.

If you really want to make some, try out the magnets from within Poser. They are a sadly underused feature that with experimentation will give you highly individual features and can be used in combination with morphs and posing dials. The result you can save as morphs of your own. They are savable as props and can be saved in prop "groups" like any other prop so you can apply a base set over and over and to any figure. Happy morphing B)

I've tried doing some things with them and always end up with something that looks really wierd. I'm not very good with the magnets. I could try to work with them a bit more.

But that is exactly the thing about the magnets, made by scientists, must be handled by scientists..No wonder there arent any people (well not many) who use them. Its simply a clumsey made tool.

I am going to assume that most peopel that make facial morphs use it though?

I know what you mean, my first magnet experiments were like "okay it stretches the nose, wow". But now I can make any clothes I buy fit my "Barbara" character, who is curvaceous compared to Victoria, with minimum tweaking. I am attempting now to create expressions for an anime-style head Ive just started. They are tricky to use but infinitely variable and there is no practical limit to how many you can use. I loveem. I guess I have a magnetic personality :) (Sorry)

Yeah that was bad. Anyhow back to my question. Does anyone have some other samples to look at? I'm trying to see a large amout of faces so I can decide what I want to do. Thanks Zrincx for you link. Those were pretty cute.

Zrincx, how do you like your computer? ;)

Im glad you like them Routledge, hats off. :-) There are many other options (programs) which is IMO IS easier and quicker to make morph targets in. 3D MAX, Ray Drem, ZBrush, just to name a few.

RE: Zrincx, how do you like your computer? ;) Qe ???

Zrincx I like the pictures in your gallery. Those were made with the Face morphs you have for sale? Talking about this picture http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=113083

Zrincx "Made by scientists... clumsily made tool" Cool faces by the way, on my next purchase list! Fracture try these too: SWO faces and Destiny at DAZ 3D, Plain Jane at Renderosity Going offline now see ya and good luck B)

No not "My Gawd", its a Millenium face (pre teen). And please note: My morphs are not tools for tweaking individual parts of the head, f.x. nose, lips..BUT heads modelled in one procedure. Its full face morphs so to say. (Just so you know :-)

Im off too for now, Routledge: It was overdriven, and with a smile on my lips that I wrote this :-) Take care all.

Thanks. Ill look at these links and see what I can see.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=5235

Maybe you find some , following the link, and i think there are more to come soon:-)) and i think at 3d-arena there are some, too.

Ok those looked good btu they suffer from what I call Vicky syndrome where they all look slightly different but still too much like Vicky. I'll check 3d-arena.

Hi! As thgeisel says, there are more coming. Here's one of the demo renders.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/photos/SoftgoodImage5316a.jpg

Again looks nice. I like them but what I'm getting at is that all of them still look like vicky. I'll keep pointing to Boris. I picked that up about a month ago and the faces are so far from looking like Mike that you can get some true variation in the heads you make by combining the morphs with each other. The point of this thread was that while all the effort that has been put into vicky wasn't bad, it was prett damn good. it just seems like everyone is only slightly altering the face and no matter what I've seen, there are very few that look anywhere near different from the base. Here's what I mean. The link below shows a bunch of Boris Faces side by side. Would it be possible to do something simmilar for Vicky? Not every womans face looks the same.

I see what you mean... Many head morphs to create some extremely varied faces. Traveler's had morphs like that, and i suppose the DAZ monsters, witches, and so forth would count. i haven't heard much call for such with Vicky, aside from Halloween usage. Can't say for sure why: perhaps folks prefer their female characters to hit close to the metrics for beauty? What i have heard was a call for more ethnicities in Vicky, which i've tried to accomodate. And not all these grrls are beauties or even button nosed cuties! There are many more of them than i could ever do, so i've tried for "interesting."

When I get home from work today I'll make a enw thread with some pictures of actual people and show you what I mean. You can have variations and not have them look ugly. On the contrary. But I'll have to do that later as I can't do much photo-work from the office.

RE: Not every womans face looks the same. Yourso da** right..Hows this?? :-)

Thanks, Fracture! Maybe Zrincx and i can have a Face-Off! All in good fun, of course. :^) Everyone's invited.

Zrincx--she's so cute! So... gamine. Well done!

Yes that's a step in the right direction. Doesn't look like Vicky at all to me.

Hang on! What means gamine??

gamine (g-mn, gmn) n. An often homeless girl who roams about the streets; an urchin. A girl or woman of impish appeal. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [French, feminine of gamin, gamin.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gamine adj.

I think the latter definition was meant.

Fracture; I think what you need is a Victoria face where the face mesh is pretty much "streched" in wierd directions! More than Felecia here.. You can then, yourself adjust it to suit your taste using the many dials on the V2 model... If her nose is too wide, adjust it etc. But in the end it still has a totally different look cuz the mesh has been moved, and getting it back to Victoria default is impossible.

Ok well where could I find such a head? Also would something like that be a prop or whole new head I would have to attach?

Yes, Fracture... impish, waifish (in the sense of cute and young). It was meant as a compliment. And what Zrincx said--you can use the morph dials on Victoria 2 to stretch her in a lot of ways--there are cat, monkey, hag, and alien (among other) morphs that can be used a little or a lot to get some of the weirder effects. That's why they are there! And any of these characters or faces that i or anyone else presents may still be considered stepping-off points for your own experiments.

i am working on SEVERAL face paks...i have some previews in my gallery...my ETHNIQUE pak will be first to be released...i should have more previews of that pak later this evening. also, i made 10 faces in the Melody pak 5 fae, 5 human you may be interested in....Melody is in the marketplace now - $10, includes spectre3's EXCELLENT textures! tam ;o)

Hey funny you should chime in mizzthangg as I just bought Melody over the weekend. I collect alot of textures with tatoos and makeup combinations. Good job. Also your ETHNIQUE pack is another step in the direction I like to see things going. Not because she's got a big mouth but mainly because she's just different. Like I siad I'm gonna post some human pictures to show off what I mean by varied facial structures. It's something peopel see but don't often notice the difference between.

lol @ her big mouth!!! ;o)

Wasn't meant as any kind of a derogatory comment. But I'm thinking you got that

Zrincx and I have started combining some of our faces together to get a different look. It's amazing what a li'l ol' morph target can do. I build most of my faces now by combining my previous full face morphs, and then only use the "feature" morphs, such as "Mouth Narrow", in very small increments to put the final touches on the look I am going for. BTW, I absolutely LOVE the magnets too, they are the best new addition to Poser since they added transparencies. There is a secret to making faces that I shall now reveal, though I'm sure it is no "secret" really... Of all the billions of people in the world, there are still only a very small number of facial "archetypes". Some of them are similar and you get the generic looking people whom you've seen one you've seen them all. The number of face archetypes is surprisingly small. To be able to identify faces as belonging to one or another archetype does require some bit of skill and it is a skill that can be developed and gotten better at, just like any learned skill. I have been studying faces for over 20 years. I mean really studying them- I started out drawing pencil portraits in 1979- noticing how the eyes curve and the lips are placed in proportion... one thing that I've noticed is when you get down to the scale of millimeters and notice how faces are put together, there are NO ugly faces. All faces are interesting, and all faces have some beauty in them, which naturally implies that there is an "ideal" face for every single archetype that exists. These "ideal archetypes" then, are the faces that I strive to create with my models. I think this is why many people tell me that my girls look like someone they know- their sister, girlfriend, ex-wife... it is because I have purposely made the face to fit close to the ideal for a specific facial archetype. Another trick is in "SEEING" what is there, rather than just "looking". But that is another entire essay in itself. ;) This girl is a combination of morphs created by myself and my faerie helper Zrincx. I think she came out rather cute. Hey! I know that girl! =};-}>

Yep another deviation from the vicky model. Good work.

Fracture: The difference between a face pose file - and - morph taget for the face is this: face pose files changes the mesh of the head only as much as the morph dials on the individual character allows! (V1 or V2) A face morph goes beyond this! Using an 3d editor with obj imp/export, opens up endless ways to model.. a head, or and arm, whatever mesh WHEN you apply this new modified part back to your character (add morph target:-) regardless of shape, this new part takes the desired shape.. So, no matter how people put it..or claim, you can not create something VERY different with the default dials on Victoria! Its simply impossible, V2 is better, but it is still V2 !!!!

I suppose I look like Vicky too?

Yep that looks like Vicky. On the point brough up by Zrincx. What would be a good program to look into that would be relativly easy to import and export a head object to be used on Vicky?

I agree with Z on that- magnets are good also but you can only do so much with them. Quite a few of my faces have been modeled by "hand"- that is I exported an OBJ of Vickie's head, took it into my modeler, and moved the points around individually to smooth out the nose, or to make a head be more symmetrical that had been slightly overmorphed, for instance. Victoria's HEAD object consists of 10,041 vertice points, no more and no less. That is considered HIGH resolution. Posette's head has only around 3,000 vertice points, so you can see the difference, even though in my opinion the default Posette is much prettier thant the default Vickie head, which must have caught fire during development and they put it out with a sledghammer. ;o) Still it is the VERTICE count that is everything- and any conceivable item that can be constructed from 10,041 vertice points (and that could be just about anything!) can be a "morph target" for Victoria's head. you could even make her head into a boxcar for that matter, with sliding doors! Beware of any company requiring exclusive use of their morphs only... we may be seeing that come to pass and it is a disturbing trend. Free Vickie from the tyranny of proprietary morph targets!!! Use Vickie One!

The best way I've found to try and make Vicky look less "Vickyish" is to try to make her look as much like a real person I know as possible. About are two of my attempts at unique Vicky characters.

The brunette is based on a firend and uses mainly Handspan's Chere and Kendra face morphs. The blonde is based on myself and uses mostly the standard V2face morphs plus few from William the BLoddy's free MMV2 character.

Hopefully neither of them looks a lot like the standard Vicky.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Anim8tor is kind of tricky to use, its free though, and cool once you get it to know. I use mainly ZBrush which is great for moving around the mesh of any obj. Relatively easy to use (the obj editing, that is) everything else in this strange program can be a pain to find out how to use, it has to be said, that is beacause of its complexity, I doubt any other prgram can as much as ZB. Happy modelling. Try looking at www.anim8or.com or www.zbrush.com And to Ron, thats a cool joke... She looks like just about every other V2 :-)

Wow Daio! I recognize Kendra in there, very nice! The blonde is just drop dead gorgeous! OoOH! Just awesome! Your work is always high caliber, and you are right- neither looks like Vickie at all! note to Fracture- I use the RDS 5.5 Mesh From Modeler to edit OBJs.

Daio: Indeed cool looking characters.. Ingrid makes some small incredible power textures too, her choice of colours is outstanding.

First, the "sunshine."
I have found this thread fascinating! Keep goin'.

Thorne,

Your pic in #37 (this thread) is just possibly the cutest I've seen thus far - including all Poser females to date. [how does he do that!?]***

Ok, now the "salt."
How in the *$%$#@@$%^^$ do you use the mesh modeler in RDS for morph targets without screwing up the "origin?"
I know if you tweak the origen 0.000001 and try to tweek it back, RDS evidentally does not save as many decimal places in the .obj file as Poser wants. When you load the MT - el zingo ...... touch that param dial for the MT and you've got garbage! Body parts flying everywhere! [that ya don't want 'em]

What's the secret, huh, huh, huh?

Specifically, when the mesh is in the modeler, you can't change the positioning of the mesh [at all] or the MT gets screwed up. Moving individual verticies is ok, but it's a b***h to position the mesh so that you can see it from any angle. How do ya do it?

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I use Ray Dream for morphs all the time ... I never mess witht he origin though and it works fine. And I think Boris is cool but he is way too charicaturish for me. Think that is one reason he is more different though .. He is more pushed past actual human standards than most Vickie's are.

... rotate the mesh to get to the backside. Detailed explain ... if you don't mind.

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I just use the different preset views. This is Ray Dream Studio 5.5 but I just look in the different views and when I think I am done I click done and then rotate the camera around out in the land of the red figure (main window) but the figure is still in the same exact position.

Is this what you are after Fracture? This is a set (called Morphess) I sold from my site. However, I pulled them with intentions of refining them. Though they are not ready, they are on my list of to do. As such, the faces may look totally different when I am done.

Beth

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=558254

One thing I found today alone, is that making major changes to the head itself makes for a radically different face. The linked one (link above) is one I'm banging away at now... Vicki 1 ver. You can also see (a little) some of the processes involved in un-vickifying a face :) IMHO, Vicky 1 is easier to work with than 2... In this particular case, it took (so far) two magnets to the head, and a major change in the head geometry (y-scale is @ 85%, x @ 92%, and z @ 100%.) The nose is magnetted outwards a bit, and the face magnetted a touch out to compensate for the flatter face. I'll prolly tweak the lips some more, but I'm shooting more for a pretty woman you'd find on the street of a small town, rather than someone you'd find on a fashion runway (wait'll you see what I do with the body - she's on her way to being a tad short :) /P

ZOWIE! What a load of faces! Very cool! Geep- first of all forget the inches scale- set your scale to points- on that scale one inch = 72 points but Poser's scale is so small compared to the real world that still means the distances between vertices is on the decimal places. Next, NEVER move the object! Not one bit, not at all. Use the preset camera views. You can also select vertices and "hide" them using the "Hide Selection" menu item in the "View" menu. This will let you disappear areas of the model that may be obstructing your view at a certain angle, without aactually moving them. LAST TRICK: Duplicate your object, for instance the head, and then scale it up 5000 or so percent so you can actually SEE it in the PERSPECTIVE window (that's the red thingy window ;o)) When you take the OTHER original sized object into the MFM, RDS will ask you if you want to edit the master or create a new master with this copy. If you will always tell it to "Edit Master", then any modeling you do to the actual sized copy will automatically be seen in the large-scaled version as well, and also you may rotate the larger one around any way you like because when you save the OBJ back to file, you will save the smaller, untranslated version, not the larger "viewing" version. Tricks figured out from way too much time spent moving individual Vickie head points around, one at a time!! =};-}>

I must be dense, but ... If the mesh (the head, for example) is offset in the + direction, when I use the preset camera (ctrl + "0" for reference view) the mesh is out of sight waaaaaaaay above the screen, n'est pas? What am I missing here? cheers, dr geep <--------- (feeling stupider by the minute) ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Geep--- There are 3 buttons on the tool bar: Onr og them is "Zoom to selected" one is "Zoom to object" and one is "Zoom to Window". If you have even one point selected on the head, all you have to do when you change views is click that one button, "Zoom to selected" in order to place the selecte head points back exactly in the center of the viewing area! Tada!! Alternately you may select the "Zoom to Object" button to put the entire head in the center of the viewing area.

That makes sense. Now, all I have to do, is ......... do it! I've been bangin' my head against ...... for decades. Well, maybe it's only been a couple of years, but it seem like ........ Thanks! cheers, dr geep <-------------- (gettin' back to morphin' aagain) ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I dunno Thorne... AC3D imports poser objects in perfect scale (unlike 3DS Max, though 3DS Max is way more flexible), and everything in it measures in either inches/feet or metres/centimetres... works well for me :)

................... you're beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

hehe gee thanks geep! I forgot to mention- if you use the duplicate and resize trick I mentioned, you may only move and resize the "viewing" version in the PERSPECTIVE window, not in the MFM. Any translating or scaling done in the MFM translates to the copies as well. This does not occur in the Perspective window, where moving or scaling a copy does not affect the master.

... I'm copyin' down EVERY word!!! [even the SPACES between the words] [makes it easier ta read that way - I just discovered that!] I just knowed that everyone out there makin' MTs could not have been doin' it the way that I was. [they couldn't be THAT stupid, could they?] cheers, dr geep <------------- (goin' back to ye olde drawing board, again!) ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Hi: the basic problem with the faces looking the same is that the basic proportions of the face remain unchanged - if you look at the faves with a ruler you will find that mouthlines and the eyes always stay in the same horizontal plane. Another thing is headshape which rarely is changed - although head shapes differ most between people. this is a different one - where almost everything has been changed into the proportions of a real person. hope you like it Karl

Hello all. Thanks for all the replies. In a way I am interested in alot of the "caracature" style heads as they are drasticly different but I'm also interested in gettin gsome other head types that could be used for other styles of people. I was going to post some things from home last night but our cable modem was out so I'll have to wait and do it tonight. Grammer: Looks good, although it always creeps me out a bit when I see a poser head with ultra detailed face skin on it. Mainly because it still has poser hair. Either way great job on the skin texture, I can never get the ones I do to come out so well. Capsces: Any chance you could let me know when the re-worked version of that head pack will be done? Daio: WOW! The girl on the right look sgreat but the girl on the left, hoo boy. That's some fine work right there, great job on that. Again I want to thank everyone for contributing to the thread here. Help to know I'm not alone in thinking Vicky needed a little more variety. Again, tonight I'm going to try to get another thread going along the same lines. Hopefully my cable modem will be working when I get home.

I will try to let you know in some way, Fracture. And, I'm glad you like the Boris faces. :) In response to GhostofMacBeth: I do have a tendency to exaggerate my morphs. But my opinion is this gives me more variety. The dial can always be set to a lower value for less characteristic looking faces and higher values for more character. There are ways (explained in the documentation) to decrease the strength of the facial poses included with Boris. Beth

Yes, using a combination of the morphs that come with Boris and the ones that are built in with Mike in the 1st place you can make some pretty interesting lookin gheads.

Beth ... I understand that and please don't take offense. He looks great from what I can see but I normally like making my own morphs/combinations. He does have a lot of variety and all and if I was going for a more exaggerated piece or two I would be sure to pick him up. I am thinking about it still. But I was justsaying that when compared to what people normally do with Vicki that Boris is pushed to a further degree and therefore becomes more distinctive.

No offense taken, Ghostofmacbeth. Just letting everyone know Boris does not have to look so distinctive if not desired. Besides, I like to make my own morphs, too. :) Beth

Just had to make sure Beth .. Have a good one.

I like Boris the way he is and will like the Vicky/Boris (or whatever her name will be) when she comes out as well. Speaking of which what sort of package are those head morphs going to be in? Is it just the head morphs or is it part of a bigger package?

Hi Fracture, I don't know if you will see this. I never saw your last message, as I never received the usual e-mail. I just happened in here looking for a post and saw yours. Initially, Morphess included head and body morphs along with the facial poses. The revised package will definitely include the head morphs and the facial poses. However, I am not sure about body morphs, yet. Beth