Hi folks;

Yep, it's me again asking for advice. LOL. I am making a another character this time! (Thanks BTW for all those who helped with my previous character.) Anyway, I think I got this character more down pat, but there are a few differences that bug me that I notice, and I was wondering if you all could give me your opinions.

Again, I'm going by a lot of pictures of a person I know. I like challenging myself to recreate the person in Poser. I've tried to do my best with this, and mostly I am satisfied with it. But there are a few details that I notice that aren't accurate. For instance: I know that the eyebrows in the original picture (on the left, of course) are farther apart than on the render (that can be fixed with a paint editing program) and also a few technicalities with the ears. Mostly the biggest differences (but minor) are the nose, mouth and chin. For the nose: I've tried to adjust the nostril height, and other various dials to not make the nostril so promenant in the render, but I still can't seem to get that right. The mouth: has more of a bowed appearance than I'd like it to have. And the chin could me a tiny bit smaller, but whenever I adjust "Face Heart", it just makes the chin longer.

Sorry my post is so long, but I wanted to explain. With this post I have supplied a picture of the original along with the render. Can anyone offer me opinions on what I've created here? And also, are there any additional morphs or some technique for Michael out there that can adjust the things like making the nostril less curved, and making the chin smaller without making the face longer? Any help would be appreciated, thanks! : )

-RockNRollWoman

Maybe you can make the nose a little rounder at the end? Otherwise.. really good! Anz

here is differences I see... width of nose, width of forehead, top curve of ear. You got the nose dead on, looks to like you only need to widen the head as a whole, except for the chin, which you got dead on as well, and bend the tops of the ears outward. It also looks like you may need to Y-scale down the head a bit as well to make the nose not so long? maybe not? The space between his eyes and mouth is shorter than the sapce on yours, mayve a magnet adjustment??? The ball at end of nose could be a bit nore round and if possible puff up the lower eyelids. Life as a rock star must be tiresome?! :P Hope this is helpful and not offensive to you. TMG Wouldn't it be nice and helpful it celebrity PR people would circulate a front and side view pic of their people for the media (and 3d artists) to use!

I am thinking the part of the nose between the notriles should be up more. It looks to be haning to low on your character. Should be able to use a magnet to pull that up a bit. Yep top ot he ear should come out a little. Excellent job BTW

You know what I've discovered is the absolute worst part of trying to recreate someone in Poser? The damn ears. I have yet to find any way to move them further towards or away from the face. Ears just aren't always right in the middle of the head. Feh.

Thanks for everyone for their advice so far! You all basically took the thoughts right out of my head. I had notice these things, but not quite in that perspective.

Although I may not be very new to Poser, I still am learning the ins and outs, so bare with me, I still have some questions.

Anz: Thank you, I will try that!

TMG: I didn't find your post offensive at all, I find it very helpful! : ) I have a question though. How would I go about using magnets? I don't know much about using them. Also, how would i go about pulling the ears and possibly the tip of the nose up? By using magnets too? Or? Yep... you guessed who I'm trying to render ; )

The3dwizard: Thanks for your tip too. Maybe I can use the nose tip up dial, and see what happens.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far. I've attached a picture of another angle of the person I'm trying to recreate and the render. And I'm looking forward to rending more insights!

-RockNRollWoman

you know Bono?

Hi Movida;

No, not personally. When I say I know him, I meant his music, and his appearance (for rendering him in Poser.) :)

-RockNRollWoman

Maybe flatten the teeth to bring the mouth back a bit.

The chin is too wide, the guy in the picture has a narrower chin (by chin I do not mean the end where the dimple is but the sides...the JAW!!! damn its hard to think at midnight)The bridge if the nose needs to be a little nrrower as well. Looks good though.

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One common complication in doing portraits from real people is that some people have faces that are larger than the usual proportion of face to skull, and there isn't a generic morph or dial for this (are you listening, Trav?). OTOH this is probably one of the easier magnets to do. If you wanna do portraits you have to learn magnets, no ifs ands or Bonuts.

Not sure why you would alter him anymore, as compared to some of the dogs we see called Mike he is very good. Reminded me of Aussie Actor Anthony LaPaglia (Lantana ,Bulletproof Heart , Betsy's Wedding , Murder One and Criminal Justice

Attached Link: http://www.lantanathemovie.com

Tony

I don't know if these will help but I made a few comparison images from the ones you posted. On one of them I used 'red' to mark the areas I think need touch-ed up. As far as magnets? You got me!! :< Not my area sorry, you might try to pick the brain of Traveler on that one! IMHO he is the best on this! Look at a few of the tutorials on his site, maybe those will help? Keep posting on this, Looking good so far! TMG

Split images.........

with pic this time :P

and another....

and an overlay.... hope these have some help value in them :> You are very close don't stop now!!!!! TMG

I think that chin divot will be a test to duplicate! Seems to be off to one side :P broken jaw maybe??

Thanks again!

DuaneMoody: Can you please contact me about how to make magnets? I know that the manual shows how, but it's still a little confusing to me.

Tas: Thanks for the compliments on the char and for the comparison pictures!

TMG: Thanks again for your different variations and comparision notes of the render and the pic, this helps loads! : ) Do you know the link to the Brain of Traveler?

Attached is an updated version of my character. I messed around with him some more earlier. I'm not sure if I made him look more or less like the picture. I did try everyones suggestions. I'm still not sure how to curve the ears, but I did lower the nose a bit (I still think I need to make it a little wider), and make it a bit wider. I also changed the shape of the face a bit. And made the eyes "puffier" and more "squinty." But I think I'm going in a good direction here. I saved the original just in case it's not, so I can start where these pictures before show.

Please let me know if I'm heading in the right direction. LOL. Thanks!

-RockNRollWoman

-RockNRollWoman

RnR: Here, let me kill two birds with one stone. Trav's site features some of the best tuts on magnets you'll find: www.morphworld30.com

Wow, getting closer and closer! Just a little bit further! TMG

I think he is looking like the lead singer to Vertical Horizon...

Duane: Thanks for the link! I will check it out! Hopefully I will be able to edit the ears and chin a bit more. These seem like the areas everyone agree on that need to be targeted the most. TMG: Thanks for the encouragement! To me the chin looks like it needs to be jutted out more, and a little smaller, the nose wider and the parts around the ears. Did I get close to your suggestions w/ everything else though? I hope so. If not, that's ok, I won't be offended. I will just try harder. : ) Wadus: LOL I'll keep you all updated. -RockNRollWoman

Hi again, RNR, How's "Steve" doing? You definitely need to dive into magnets. Morph Master Traveler's tutorials are where I started. (Just grit your teeth and keep saying "magnets are my friends.") Even if you have every morph available for a figure, when trying to match real faces there's always some feature or proportion that isn't QUITE right...

Gryffnn! Hi! How are you? The "Steve" char is doing great! Thank you so much for helping me out with that one. Ok, great! I will definitely look into that. From the Poser manual they don't sound too confusing, but they don't give enough details as to how to get to move what where. Is this the link Duane supplied? Hopefully my character is coming closer to looking like the picture. I think mostly I'll need the magnets for the ears and the chin. They seem to be the two not quite accurate spots. -RockNRollWoman

Ok folks;

I think I'm getting closer and closer LOL. Here's an updated picture. I found another great picture as a resource for the render, where the light is coming from underneath him. I experimented heavily with the magnets this morning: lifting up the nose, tweaking the ears where they stick out, and slant a bit; and squeezed the face together a little saw the jaw is not so dramatic, which really helped with some of the chin issues. Sorry to go on and on about this, but you all are very helpful and friendly; and I so very much appreciate the help, and feedback.

Please let me know what you think. If it's ok enough to go onto post work or do you think there's still a few issues? I think I'm getting very close! Paticularly with the pic on the left. As the one on the right is harder to judge his lips by because it's B&W.

-RockNRollWoman

Man, this is looking good! I think the little indent under the nose could be just a bit deeper and that chin dimple needs to be moved to the right side of the face a little bit, he must have a broken jaw or something, maybe a lazy chin heheheh. The ears look good but maybe make the lobes a bit larger. Is there a magnet ou ther that lets you puff up the upper and lower eyelids and eyelid areas without lowering the brows or raising the cheekbones? You are like 2 steps from being there! Thanks for sharing and letting us see this 'grow'! TMG

Hey, TMG! Thanks a lot for your help and encouragement! That's a very good question. I've been experimenting with the magnets again tonight, and I just dunno how to figure out how to puff things up and move things without something else moving with it hehe. :-P But, I did get a lot done! I did more work on the nose, and the chin area. But the lips are really frustrating. The part between the two points of his lips I have no idea how to move wider apart, for the indenture there. You're welcome! I'm having fun with this hehe. : ) -RockNRollWoman

Attached Link: http://www.morphworld30.com/index.html

That nose piece and the chin could probably be done with a morph. If you have a 3d modeler like Rhino of Amorphium, you could make it in that. Traveler has a great tut on this at his site. In case you don't have it it is at the link provided. Also- You might could use the color pic to make a texture with and the black-n-white pic to make a bump with!? Just a thought...... TMG (Is this Mike 1 or 2?)

Hey TMG! The question for me is how to make the morph. Unfortunately I don't have Rhino or Amorphium. Some have even suggested me using ZBrush. I am so confused, LOL. I don't have any of these programs to help me out. Only Poser and Bryce so far. Thanks for the link! I've been checking out his tutorials on magnets so far. Good idea about the texture -- only I'm new to that area too. Not that I'm new to 3d work, it's just I'm new to some areas. It's Michael 2. -RockNRollWoman

Im reading up on morphin now cause I have Rhino - I plan on doing the nose divit thingie and the chin divot thigie for you. TMG (Attached is my current model in progress in Rhino)

Courtney Love first thing in the morning! Great!

TMG! Kewl, thanks! I'm about to go mad, it's like I know I'm getting closer. But certain things I can't get Poser to do, unless I'm approaching it wrong. Thanks for your help! The nose divit and chin divit will help me a lot! BTW, your model you're working on looks GREAT! : ) -RockNRollWoman

Duane: My model looks like Courtney Love? Don't confuse my Poser-fied brain! ; ) -RockNRollWoman

LOL I think he meant my model hehehe

Here a is quick morph for the chin. Setings = Mike 2's 'chin dimple' set to 1.000 M2_chindivot set to 0.700 email me for the morph and I'll send to ya.... now to do the nose divit thingie..... TMG

TMG: Thanks!! That is awesome! I just e-mailed you. Hope you receive the e-mail. : ) Can't wait to try it out on the model. Also looking for a vest... Anyone know where I can find just a simple vest, with no collar or anything? Thanks -RockNRollWoman

There is a morph on Mike2 for the area under the nose but it does not have "Bono" on it ! :> will try that one too. I have 'squished' the morph and tested (Thanks Traveler) and will email to you.

Yep, I've tried experimenting with the one that came with Michael. But it doesn't seem to add a dramatic enough "divot" to push that part out too. But maybe you can get it to work better than me hehe. Oh kewl, thanks! I'll keep my eyes looking for it! -RockNRollWoman

Does this look ok for the nose divot thingie?? TMG

Yep!! WOW! It sure does! -RockNRollWoman

Hows this for the nose divot?

hehe did I double post?!!!!!!!!!! ooops :P Looking around for coffee cup ~

Yep, oops LOL!

I tried the morph out, it looks great! But I dunno what I did with his face, but there's a line going through that morph.:-O Nothing of what you did (that line was there before trying out these morphs), but here's a pic of what it looks like with both morphs that you sent loaded. : )

-RockNRollWoman

Wowzers! You're getting closer! Are his eyes brown? or Dark Hazel? Did you tweak the 'puffy eye' morph on him? Also, maybe widening the mouth, if there is a dial for that. Can't wait to hear him sing! :P TMG

Hey, thanks! Yeah thanks to your morphs it's coming closer and closer! Maybe if I pull with a magnet a little bit on his mouth it would get rid of that line? Must've happened by me editing the length of the face and stuff. Actually his eyes are sort of a blue jean grey, although that picture does bring out a hazel look to his eyes doesn't it? I tweaked the "puffy eye" morph on him quite a bit, I can try for a little more though. It doesn't seem to make the under eye look puffy enough. But then if I get him in a different pose, it does look puffier. Yep, I just noticed that right before you said it looking at it in Poser, hehe! Weird cooincidence. : ) Hehe, you're giving me ideas on what to render him doing when I get this done. ; ) -RockNRollWoman

Hehehe Oh, what are you going to do about the 'Dew'? Is there a Hair out there to match? Is there an 'old' morph to add hust a hint of wrinkles? TMG

TMG: I've asked myself the same question hehehe. Actually there is similar hair, but none exactly alike :-P I may have to paint the hair on. That's what happens when I pick somebody to do with non-poser hair LOL! At the moment, I am looking for "accesseries" for him. I have the pants, found some "cowboy" boots (hopefully they will fit under the pant legs or I'm in trouble LOL), but as to shirt atire I'm not sure. I am thinking on a vest, but... I can't seem to find just a plain vest for him. I do believe there is a "old" morph. I also find that using the "wince" dial on the morphs helps with that too. Wish someone had a more in detail "puffy" morph for the eyes hehe. : ) But the morphs you made are making it really starting to look just like him! -RockNRollWoman

Just a small point but all the tiny adustments that you want to do to the mesh can be done in ZBrush. I don'y know if you are aware of the package but I have created a number of tutorials using the DAZ Mich2 character. An example would be the movement of ears. It is easy to export the head from poser, move the ears up and down left right in out, what ever you like, then get the head back out as a mesh for use as a morph target. You can even import the piccy of Bono into a back layer and pull/push the mesh to match his proportions (there is a button called DOTS in the preferences that allows you to pull the wire frame. and one more thing, if you have Photoshop 6 you can move small bits of your image around using LIQUIFY. BTW, good work and an cool thread you have going! DAZ TUS HERE: http://store.daz3d.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ZP1&Product_Code=ps_ap018r&Category_Code=ps_software GETTING POSER HEADS INTO ZBRUSH HERE: http://www.awakemm.com/poserarcana/tutorials/gs/gs03/index.html ME: http://www.southerngfx.co.uk

Hey Southerngfx! Thanks for the helpful tips! I've been wanting to check out ZBrush. I definitely want to try that too. I'll be quite new at it if I do. Thanks for the links too! I didn't know this thread would be so popular, LOL! But everyone is so nice and helpful here! I appreciate all the help! -RockNRollWoman

Thanks SGFX! I'm intrigued by what you said about "pull/push the mesh" and "DOTS in the preferences that allows you to pull the wire frame" ! Gonna read up on your tut right now! Thanks!

TMG: Do you have ZBrush? What's it like? I'm very interested in trying that out! -RockNRollWoman

This image gives you an idea of what ZB can do for you. I wil reply later when I have a bit more time. Glen

Hey Glen -- Thanks for the pic! Looks very interesting! $270 something isn't bad -- not sure how I could afford it now though, LOL. But the more I see of ZBrush, the more I want it LOL. It'd be great to iron out the rest of the tiny differences. -RockNRollWoman

Hey all; Just ordered ZBrush from DAZ3D. Hopefully I'll recieve it in the mail soon. I'm going to try my hand at what Glen suggested. I hope that it'll add the tiny adjustments that I need. : ) Thanks! -RockNRollWoman

Cool Beans! Can't wait to see the stuff you'll be crankin out! The rest of the U2 band maybe?? :> TMG P.S.~hows this character soming along?

Hey TMG! Great to hear from you again! Thanks!! Wish me luck with ZBrush! I know Glen's tutorial will shed some light on it. Yeah, actually I am thinking about doing the rest of the band too! : ) P.S. The character is coming along pretty well, thanks for asking! Right now he's in the same phase as what I've shown you all before. Which is pretty close, but needs tiny adjustments as you can see. Mostly with the nose and lip area. Those morphs you made add the perfect touch! Basically he just needs tiny adjustments in ZBrush (if I can get the hang of it hehe ; )). I'm also thinking of doing some pictures centered around some of their songs. Music can give you images in your mind ya know. ; ) As for clothes, I am coming close with those. I haven't found much in a way of a vest, but I guess it all depends if I'm doing a "now" Bono or what era, LOL. I'm determined to get a Poser render of these guys -- even if I have to paint things on! ; ) -RockNRollWoman

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=RnRWoman

Hey all; Update: Still waiting for ZBrush to come in. But while I am waiting, I am creating some music inspired renderings. Please check it out at or by clicking the URL: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=RnRWoman It's inspired by U2's song "Lemon." Feedback would be appreciatied! : ) Thanks! -RockNRollWoman