Ok, don't ask me what made me look into this, but with everyone talking about warez and stuff, I wanted to check and see if it was more than just people sharing with their friends. So I went and opened up Morpheus (which I normally only use for music) and did a search on Poser, a TON of stuff came up, mostly from DAZ, then I noticed some renderosity files, so I took a closer look and searched for "Renderosity" and low and behold came back with 79 results, all different files. I wanted to see if they were real, or just virus stricken jokes, downloaded one, virus scanned it (it was one of Sharkey's Leather Fantasies by the way) No virus detected so I opened it (praying my virus scanner was up to date enough) And of course, what did I find...the real file. I don't know about you guys, but I find this disturbing. (Yes, of course I deleted the file, I really don't want to get sued, arrested, taken to court or beaten over the head for using something I didn't pay for) But I really find this disturbing. I always knew you could find a lot of stuff easily, but renderosity files, DAZ files that people are paying good money for being shared, given away. Is there no way to stop this? (I have been working on learning more about Poser and might someday create something useful that I might sell)

What exactly is Morpheus? Sharen

I'm not sure how to stop it, but giving a step by step tutorial on how to do it probably isn't helping matters.

It's a Napster like program Sharon, except you can share any files. I am amazed that it is running rampant while Napster got taken to court. BTW, Goth, I don't condone anyone using this criminal thing, but why is it okay to use it for music and not for art? Neither is correct, IMHO.

I wasn't posting a tutorial on HOW to do it, I just wanted people to know that it's out there and it's too easy...It's really disturbing to me that me, with no real internet knowledge (only had internet for a few months now) can find almost anything....I can only imagine waht people who know more than me can find. And Sharen, Morpheus is a file sharing program like Napster was. I use it a lot to back up my cd collection cos I have NO clue how to back them up. (And my cd's always seem to get stolen :( ) I just never realized until today that it wasn't just music you could get from it.

"Is there no way to stop this?" Well, one way would be to stop posting messages that inform others about ways to accomplish this theft. I also noticed that you defend the way that YOU use this service, because it's only for 'music'. I believe it was Eowyn who pointed out that many of the most zealous defenders of 'software' think nothing of stealing the intellectual property of musicians and record companies. I bring this up not to condone the software theft.. but to condemn the music theft! I've never been to Napster and am curious as to why this thievery is acceptable to so many?

JDexter, like I said, I use it to back up my collection. I'm in college, I don't have a lot of money and have a LOT of tapes (yes they exist) I figure if I bought it in one form at one point, it's ok for me to "upgrade" I'm not hurting anyone cos I have (or have had and still have the cases to) the originals. CD's are expensive and when people borrow them and don't give them back or just steal them (I recently had my binder with 96 cd's stolen out of my locker at school) It's impossible to re-buy all of them. I don't condone it either, I just can't afford to re-buy all of my music

dead horse haiku Horse is dead. Beaten. Morpheus evil. Must post. The thread that won't die. Seriously though.. this comes up every 14 days or so. ;)

OK, you have most of your music stolen (yes, that 96 binder was most of my cd's) and see if you can afford to rebuy them all...I'm sorry but spending 4000 a semester for school is a lil more than taxing on a budget)

And a lot of people who warez software do it because they can't afford it. This is different how?

Ok, I don't see what the problem is if she had the originals in one form or another. Now I'm not saying it's right, but I do see the point if the originals WERE bought it's ok to have back ups. I have EVERYTHING of mine backed up. (Yes quite literally) I've bought stuff from the marketplace here, so are you telling me it's wrong for me to have a copy on cd and on my computer at the same time? Or it's wrong for me to have burned copies of my cd's in my car so people DON'T steal my originals? Or that it's wrong to back up copies of windows (yes I do) because my orignal windows disc is totally scratched and barely works (the new burner is tempremental)

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This is nothing really new. It has always been a concern of the makers of software of just how easy it is to pirate software. The very nature of software makes it so. I used to work in the video business when Video rental places were just getting started. When a hot title came out, a guy would come and rent, and also buy a 10 pack of video tape. I will leave it up to you to guess why he wanted the blank tape. I have used at times copies of programs that people have given me over the years. I think that if we are honest most of us would fall in this group. who hasn't gotten a friend to copy a Cassette or CD for them or copy a movie. For that matter, tape a TV show. All this violates copyrights. I am NOT saying it is ok or even right. Pirate copies are driving up the cost of software. Look at China for heavens sake. How many copies of illegel software is floating around over there with the governments tact consent. I don't think there is a solution to this problem. I also think that the software makers ought to take this in consideration. Remember a few years ago when video tapes came with a copyguard on them? Alot of those tape were unwatchable because of the copy guard. Now you rarely see a video with a copy guard on it.

I think there are people that will illegally copy software if theyre given the opportunity. They sometimes buy the software because not only is usefull but also they couldnt get it illegally. Others rarely buy anything and steal the most. The rest buy the software and dont break the law. You make a mistake, never give tips (Of how to get pirated software even when it was not with a bad intention of your part) here. Here comes skilled, talented and hardworking people, that share their skills.

If I might make just a comment as a newbie learner who reads the group and profits from all your comments, I wouldn't know about Morpheus or the ten other progs like it, just like I wouldn't have known about Napster if it weren't for my 16 yr old installing them without asking.(don't get me started on THAT) As a background, I've bought stuff here, at Daz, at Bbay....but.... I too downloaded a couple of zip files(see..they aren't all exes)...just out of curiousity and was amazed. I knew I couldn't use them, 'cause then I couldn't it post here...:) But I've noticed that in the past whenever some new person comes in and asks "where can I download this-or-that", you all roll your eyes, get huffy, and generally denegrate the asker to the point of them flaming and leaving.... I can tell you that when I 1st started reading the old Poser newsgroup, I was surprised by the attitude of the users about staying with totally legally obtained bought-and-paid-for stuff. I mean, compared to the general internet population on such things(Napster being the biggest example), they were nearly anal about it....or so I thought until it was explained to me. Once I realized that it was adherence to the creed that insured that there'd be a constant flow of new and exciting things it made sense to me. I guess what I'm trying to say is that these kids, or new Poser users of any age, have been weened on this file-sharing, and rather than taking the most "we're better than you, you rotten thief" tone with 'em, your community might be better served by someone patiently explaining to them that warez aren't condoned if they wanna belong here, and why... Just a thought... Oh....and I read in another thread something about "locking" or "shutting down" any thread on this topic. It seems to me that doing that is just hiding the ol' head in the sand...and no way to confront it. I think educating new users is the only hope. You can flame me for an honest comment if you want, but I didn't mean to insult anyone.....:))))))))))) Beav

Note to friends: Please don't feed the trolls! i imagine that's why they lock the threads.

Beav, I agree with you 100%. Instead of flaming, people should explain why it's so bad about warez software.

I'll occasionally use Hotline. Hotline is a perfectly legitimate application for sharing files, such as newsletters, FAQs, public domain PDF files, shareware, and such like. It's very good for transferring large files, because it allows you to resume broken downloads. This is fantastic if you want to share large files, such as high resolution Photoshop files that can be huge, over the net. Because you can set up your own server with it, it's also used for Warez. Actually, anybody can use their own computer and internet connection for Warez if they've a mind to do so, without Hotline or any similar program; simple web sharing, which is fairly standard (at least on Macs it is), is enough. IIlegalizing every application that makes it easy to share files a perfectly normal, reasonable thing to want to do is just going to make people mad and Warez kiddies smarter, because they're going to do it anyway. I'll have to agree with beav1. Educating folks is the best answer. There are always going to be people who don't carebut hopefuly, the more they use the software and files they've downloaded, the more they understand the complexity of the stuff they're using, the more they'll appreciate the time and work that went into these. I've no problem with someone learning that way, if they learn.

A teacher of mine, a current teacher of mine actually, said in class, if you can find a copy of the software we're using in class, get it by any means, even if that meant "pirated" software, becaue we don't have enough mac labs in our school to go around for every student to use all the time for homework. She isn't saying go pirate it for profit, but for education AND buy it when you have the money. A lot of these programs DO cost 3-400 dollars or more and there is NO way a student can afford to buy all the necessary packages we use. Even the companies that carry educational software only take MAYBE 50 bucks off the retail price. I haven't done this, mind you, I have spent hard earned cash on the educational version of Photoshop and got a MAJOR deal on Poser when the school revamped the graphic design department and decided they didn't need as much as they had (They were having problems with people making "porn" in class and we now can only use it in school under supervision...meaning it's only on front row computers in ONE lab) But when you're talking about Photoshop, Poser, Bryce, Illustrator, In Design, Dimensions, LightWave, and a barrage of other packages we use on a daily basis, you're talking well over a few thousand dollars in software packages. I don't feel that people should STEAL, but for sake of education, I feel students should be able to get somewhat more of a discount. (I'm not saying that is true for EXTRAS and ADDONS mind you, I have picked up things here and there when I had cash from the marketplace and DAZ and am planning on picking up Vicki for myself when I get my taxes back) As for ease of finding things, I can tell you right now there's almost NOTHING I can't find or HAVEN'T found. Temptation to download FREE OF CHARGE is in yer face. Some people can't handle the temptation. I have thought about it, as have most of the people who have posted, but who suffers from that...the makers of the software, the buyers of the software, hell, the entire comunity suffers for it. Not only are legal issues huge, but when you talk about warez kiddies, growing up around the internet, etc....you're talking about me. I have had a computer since the early 80's, have had internet since 14.4 modems were out (we all know how long that was) Even back then people were "giving" stuff away. I know I'm guilty, or was anyhow, but when you stop and think about the reprucussions of the actions, it's just not worth it. Although I do feel that some things are just a LITTLE outrageously priced (C'mon, $1,000 for ONE software package...WHO the hell can afford THAT?? Not us lowly students that's for sure) Anyway, just my two cents, probably doesn't mean a damned thing....but I just find it odd that people keep saying "WAREZ IS WRONG" When my teachers are saying, get it, use it for the semester, delete it...buy it when you can afford it...because we NEED it. We're gonna be using it 24-7 when we graduate. Maybe I'm wrong though...

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Just because a person is a teacher, doesn't mean they can't be wrong or give poor advice. Regardless of rationalizations such as your teacher provides, only the owner of something has the right to absolve you from the responsibility to pay for it.

You might want to ask your teacher if she would mind if I stole her car, so I can take drivers' lessons, as long as I promise to legally buy a car after I get my license. After all it would only be for a few weeks & it is just for the sake of education. :-)

Hey, I never said I agreed, did I? I'm just saying that's what she said. There are so many people in the world LIKE that that it's disturbing. "Well as long as it's only for education." or "As long as you're not hurting anyone" it's fine for people to do. I never said I did anything like that, but did anyone ever stop and think that maybe people don't know that they're hurting someone (or lots of someones) by sharing or "pirating" software? I see nothing wrong with downloading a digital copy of a tape or cd if I own it...I see nothing wrong with downloading a software program for backup use if I OWN it. Not if I don't.

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Ya know, i'm so tired of this thread. When I add up my purchases here and at DAZ I cannot believe how much money i've spent, and it really sickens me that this subject comes up over and over and over again. It only hurts this community to enlighten everyone on what you can get on these peer2peer programs. I've supported you artists - here and at DAZ, and I wish you would respect us, the paying customers, by not elaborating on suspect software.

I do agree with fygomatic in the begining of this thread. Not all of people knew out umm Neo or is it Trininty, ah Sifer... oh I mean Morphous but you just answer the questions to a few losers in this community. Sorry I know you didnt mean to but everyone knows Iam right for now. I cant say anything but I shamelessly use ah Neo.. for music songs, music videos, and video clips of misc things and cray like that. As long as people bootleg there is not much we can do to. The other day on NYC channel 9 news, they was talking about DVD bootlegs.. you see how far people go to do things. DAMN... is all I can say.

I rarely post but I have something to say on this subject... This thread is kinda crappy because.. 1) Now every person who ever posted a question about how to get (fill in the blank)free knows what program to get to achieve their objective (including there's lots of stuff by DAZ was lame). 2) You've dispelled the "there's lots of viruses on Morpheus" myth which probably would have kept a lot of people from trying it. 3) You installed the stuff and said it worked perfectly (again lame). I know you didn't mean any harm but I really get sick of the "We smuggled 20 kilos of cocain into the country just to prove we could" stories. This thread should be deleted immediately. Now back into the woodwork. Mark

Oh and just one more thing... The whole "Those apple thieves are bastards but I'm not because I only steal oranges" argument is totally bogus. Mark

Answer to JDexter: The reason that Napster was brought to court while Morpheus is still out there is simple: Napster used a central directory of all the files, the directory resided on a server owned by Napster. Therefore it was easy to crack down on them by claiming that they helped piracy by running the directory. Morpheus is a true peer-to-peer application, There is no "Morpheus Inc" that you can bring to court. All the files are on the users hard drives, and when you search for a specific file, you do the search on all the PC's running Morpheus that are connected to the Internet at that very moment. Even if you sued the people that wrote the Morpheus source code and made them stop distributing the application, there will still be users out there running the it on their PC's and exchanging the files. It is not as easy to stop Morpheus as it was to stop Napster.

This post is not for the ironically challenged.....

Yeah, M. and K. and those other P2P things are so bad.

Renderosity on the other hand is much better, here hard working artists are free to steal what they want from the free stuff section and sell it in their store, and when they are caught Renderosity do everything they can to keep it a secret and they get to keep all their hard earned money. Unfortunately they are forced to update their stolen wares so we other hard working artist cant buy the pirated versions anymore but have to get bad original stuff instead, a shame really.

Why get warez for free when you can buy it dirt cheap here!

Staale

... or maybe it is:)

Thanks for the Info Gothgurl6669, i had thinked that at any time this will happens. Was last week at holidays, but normally i check all 2 weeks if there's something from my stuff pirated at Morpheus. But i'm not angry about it, because my brother had programmed something, so for the near future at all those places i will post my "Stuff" myself. And believe me, all who download them and install it will had and receive big trouble with NOT ONLY their system. This had started several weeks ago and is now short before finishing. As sayd from others, also in this forum there are some warez-kiddies. That's why i spread the secret about what's going on by me. So the ones who read this tread where the lucky ones. They can believe me or not, it's their decission. Gothgurl6669, as thanks for the Info i would give you a legal copy of one of the Fantasy-Collections. Just send me a mail to: sharkey@cybergate-corp.ch and i will send you Download-Link with ID and Password. Robert aka SHARKEY

Sharkey, that was an brilliant idea, and your reward to Gothgurl6669 is kind of you. May we all be watching out for each other more often. Sharen

Okay, a litle blunt reality: I've stayed away from this thread, for a few reasons, the biggest of which is that no one's said anything really new about this stuff, save that it's a bad thing to steal, which we all know already. That should be a given by now, right? Even though a thread asking "where can I get Poser for free" is locked, you can bet that the asker has already gotten an IM from someone telling him/her exactly what he wants to know. Seventy thousand people are members here, folks, and we certainly can't assume that they all have elevated senses of morality and integrity. My housemate here uses Morpheus to test drive music before he buys it. He's always complaining about the lousy quality of the downloads (and he's right in that regard) but he does get to hear them before he spends the twenty bucks on the CD. I have no issue with that, because I know he deletes the files right after listening. Mike has extremely high standards when it comes to music and sound. For a lark last night, I put daz, zygote, and poser in the search engine and started downloading whatever would come through. By this morning, I had over fifty files sequestered away, everything from Mike 2 to Sacred Spaces, all of it arriving virus free and ready for installation. It was frighteningly neat, clean, and easy. They've all been deleted, but the simple fact remains: the stuff is out there, and it ain't coming back. No, we can't control warez, no matter how we try. It's an unfortunate fact of life. I think all we can do is accept that some people are gonna try to steal whatever they can when the opportunity affords itself; that's been an essential truth of humankind since Adam and Eve, and it ain't gonna change because we want it to. But what we can do is monitor things a little better. Yes, it means we sometimes run into unfortunately ugly situations, but I don't know of any other way myself. And just as side note to the students: I agree with you. Academic versions of software used to be heavily discounted because it couldn't be upgraded -- it was "one time use", so to speak. The manufacturers have now turned their backs on the students and raised the price of academic software to the point where it's almost as expensive as the "real world" version.... and that's a hideous shame. We want our kids to know how to run everything from Quark to Dreamweaver in order to get a job, and we don't allow them the means to properly learn it because we make it so expensive that it becomes prohibitive. I have no sympathy for the software manufacturers on this; they are exploiting a captive audience for little more than greed.

This reminds me of a recent news story about a trucker busted for child pornography. His excuse was that child porn got him so disgusted, so angry, that he read it while he drove to keep him awake. We have here people that are so disgusted with morpheus that they must download one, or ahem, over 50 warez'd items, just to see that it's as bad as they thought.

Nope, fygo, I downloaded it to show how easy and fast it is to grab this stuff. And it's a snap. And as someone else pointed out, those claims about viruses appear to be minimal at best, if the sampling I got last night was any indication: everything arrived clean as a whistle. Try to think of it as an object lesson, huh? People around here sometimes just don't respond unless they see it in black and white, and it's a little difficult to ignore the problem or wish it away when it's right here for everyone to see. And contrary to the image you seem to want to cast on me, most people around here know that I'm not about to use anything like warez. Not my style -- sorry to disappoint you on that. But if I wanted to, last night I could have ripped off over a grand's worth of software without breaking a sweat. Think what people with absolutely no conscience are capable of, then start talking about truckers and child porn, okay?

Hey Cats! You guys ever hear of the 'Ted Koppel Defense'? It would seem that one night 'Nightline' explained how easy it was to manufacture crystal meth. So easy, in fact, that when a manufacturer of the stuff was arrested and brought to trial... He blamed Ted Koppel. (the Nightline anchor)

The best way to stop this, is stop using servers like Morpheus, Napster, or what ever else there is out there. (That means for everything including music). If no one uses them they will disappear. But people will always find a personal justification for using these places so they will remain (That doesn't make them evil, just human). They tried education but that only let alot more people know it was available. There will always be people who will misuse the system for their own ends but you don't have to be one of them.

Just my 2 cents or 1.38 cents US.:)

The majority of people tend to be honest (unless they're fairly sure they won't be caught)

Wow, I seriously didn't mean to cause such a great controversy. I just couldn't believe how easy stuff like that was. It just disturbed me and I wanted to look out for other artists on Renderosity. (Granted I'm not an artist, and lord knows I will never be an artist...I haven't even created something that I think is good enough to post here) I just felt AWEFUL to see peoples hard work just get given away for free. I don't know, I guess it just drives me nuts and makes me not want to work harder to learn how to make the photorealistic textures, and really cool clothing textures or even learn how to model clothes or hair myself for fear of someone ripping it off. Maybe that's just my over active paranoid brain working (Hey, you go to school for Psychology and see if you're sane when you get done. LOL) Sharkey, that is too kind of you, really. (Although, I'm secretely grinning) Maybe a better road would have been to personally IM all of the artists I saw work getting stolen from. But it's a little late for that now. Either way, I truly meant no harm, just wanted to voice my opinion on what I found.

For reference, we have a very strong academic program to provide Poser 4 to all legitimate students. The price is in the range of $120 for an individual copy, and for school/univeristy site licenses we have very deep discount programs. And we often donate to product to schools and univeristy programs that can't afford Poser. Just this week I had the pleasure of authorizing a 20+ seat license to a school in upstate NY. Art and an encouraging art teacher turned my life around in high school, and it's my intent to repay that salvation by contributing to students in kind. Serpentis, perhaps you should have your teacher contact me directly, I might be able to help. Steve Cooper

Steve: D'you think that CL, DAZ and/or Renderosity could collaborate on a simple PSA-style explanation to warez kiddiez why ripping off developers and 3D artists is economically more damaging to a small community than supposedly 'victimless' MP3 file swapping?

Steve, that's a great policy, and I'm glad to hear it. I wish the big boys like Adobe and Quark would follow your lead on this, but we all know there's not much of a chance for that.

Warez mongers are NOT going to listen to a PSA of anykind, they're going to laugh at it. We're talking about people who make a hobby out of stealing, they don't care who they harm. I agree with Markus_2000, this thread should be deleted post haste. How many kids show up here asking for Poser every week? With this thread around all they have to do is search and we've told them what they want to know.

Ditto. Never big on silencing truth, but, in our own interest, any "How To" threads such as this one should get whacked IMHO. These should be delt with more harshly than threads requesting warez.

"warez mongers??...I think my comment about trying to educate and understand mighta gotten lost somewhere in the "we're-better-than-them" idignance.....

You're right beav1, a monger is technically someone who sells something, a peddler, and BTW, it's not a pejorative term: fishmonger, ironmonger, etc. But since you brought it up, we are better than them. Better at remaining honest and abiding by the user licenses and agreements that accompny all of these products; better at maintaining our integrity. Ignoring those agreements is illegal and it is lying. Of course people are indignant. If you walk into a malle and start asking around "where can I steal some stuff?" people are going to get huffy, and the mall security staff will likely sort you out. I agree with you, however, that it might be best to first simply re-direct any askers via a link to the relevant sections of th R'osity TOS and then immediately lock the thread. They get the info they need to behave in our community, we get spared these endless threads where we all preach to the choir and pat ourselves on the back for being so good,

That's supposed to be "mall" not "Malle" who was actaully just a French film director and totally irrelevant to the discussion. It would be unpleasant to walk into him though, as he is quite dead.

Thanks Hiram.... well said. But the only reason I looked back at this thread was because I thought about it all evening, and I just had to come back and make a comment that I know is going to get me in trouble with the regular gang.... I read the comments on this thread clear through, and while I see everyone's point, and how satisfying in the short run it might seem...I think the implication that it might be ok or even admirable to put any kinda virus or war program out on the net so that people "receive big trouble with NOT ONLY their system" just sucks. Sorry...but I just think that kinda action is never justified...esspecially if some other unsuspecting third party might get hit.....not when they do it for kicks,...and not because someone beatcha outta 20 bucks. I know not everyone'll agree...because, hey...it's "them"..right?..so fire the flames...:) Beav

And of course the problem with releasing a virus is that once it starts, you can't really stop it, and it just might easily come back to bite you on the butt.

Beav1 and VirtualSite, i never talked about a virus. It's just a tool or whatever you wants to call it, but for shure not a virus. And for: ------------------------------------------------------ ""Sorry...but I just think that kinda action is never justified...esspecially if some other unsuspecting third party might get hit.."" ------------------------------------------------------ i would say their can't be a unsuspecting third party. It's not legal to use pirated things just because you doesn't know it's pirated. BTW: this is described in any law-book. Not to know doesn't prevent from law-actions. The base-target into my action is to spread fear on those places about poser-stuff. Nothing else. So enough sayd about it. When this will start i will post a last warning for the warez-kiddies, the one's who read it got luck and the other one ? Well, their problem. SHARKEY

When you said they'd have trouble with "not only their system" I took it to mean that other people they contacted might be affected who had nothing to do with it. If I misunderstood, sorry. It'd be good if you could put something in that keeps it from being used unless authorized...but until you're appointed warez sherriff(or lawyer..heehee) I still don't agree with doing anything that could damage anyone's system. Lots of people share them. I just think doing intentional damage is at least as bad an act as using an unauthorized file. And you gotta see that outside the circle of artists here that get the problem, the other 99% of the net would agree. Sounds like I mighta just misunderstood though...sorry...

BTW....about now, I don't know WHY I didn't just lurk quietly as usual....:)

Can't you simply password-protect the zip file and require people to e-mail you for the password?

i never talked about a virus Well, only in the most peripheral of ways. But the fact remains that putting a virus into a not-to-be-shared .exe is playing with a really big bonfire. Whether or not warez kiddies deserve it is another matter altogether, IMHO, but the simple fact remains that a virus is not the wisest course of action. They have a tendency to spread, and if the warez child who got it from you hacks it open and isolates it, it can come back to you in a far more deadly form. I really don't recommend it. And the problem with Hiram's idea is that you'll find yourself having to deal with possible hundreds of people all looking for a password. Unless you have some sort of javascript that can do this automatically (and maybe they do exist, I don't know -- I mean, there probably is, right?), you're gonna be spending an awful lot of time answering e-mails.

Forget the huge amount of e-mail the vendor would have to deal with. A quick google reveals a thousand and one ways to crack password protected files.

Yeah, I thought of that myself, but I remembered an earlier thread where Vaio_Con_Dios suggested jumping through all sorts of hoops to get to his freebies. I never thought it was practical. Personally, while I detest the abuse of intellectual or digital property, I think it's as simple as this: people are gonna do it. You cannot protect your product when you offer it for free and make it freely available. The honor system only works with honorable people. What lies at the bottom of this thread is the issue of how to deal with them here, on our turf.

Lets play a game shall we? Game on: I'm a warez kiddie. I come in here looking for freebies and read gothgurl's message. I say to myself: "uh oh, I hope they don't ban together and actually do something that will stop my free software from flowing". Then I notice that people are jumping on gothgurl for telling too many specifics about the problem. Making her look guilty. Ah ha! (I say to myself). These people can't hurt me. They can't even organize themselves without turning on eachother. GAME OVER: Warez users 1 Anti-warez users 0 ScottA

... which is great, Scott, but what do you recommend? Everything that's been suggested thus far is riddled with holes, either logically or practically. And I don't think anyone was really jumping on gothgirl over this -- we've seen this thread over and over, on this forum and C&D, so nothing here is that new. Frankly, I have no idea how best to control this stuff. Maybe something that automatically sends a message via the web to the creator on installation, but what if you're not connected to the web when you put this stuff into your Poser? What if the creator has changed e-mails and doesn't get the message? I think Hiram's right: the honour system only works with honourable people. And the warez kids aren't exactly high on the list when it comes to integrity. HOWEVER, I do believe it would do this place an enormous service to (1) immediately delete any requests for warez that appear in the forum board threads and (2) ban the asker. If you simply lock the thread, which has been policy for the moment, you still have the possibility that someone somewhere is gonna IM this child all the info he/she can eat. With it deleted, you lower the chances of that happening. And banishment from the site... well, that should be a given IMHO.

What do I recommend? I recommend when someone comes here trying to be helpful. That we don't jump on them for that. Even if the way they do that is done in the wrong manner. This was intended as a positive thread. And of course the first thing that we did was lynch her. I'm sure she will not post a message here again. Thanks to the warm welcome that was shown to her. I'm not very proud of that. ScottA

VirtualSite, I state it again, it's not a Virus. Just a nifty tool which i don't want to explain what it can do and does. But it's for shure not a virus. And the operating system could but was never planned to affect. So to describe what would going on when just a few would "share" their files. It would work like a piramyd-system, as short as one has downloaded it he would share it with the next, and so on. In a relativ short period a lot of "users" would have and share the file. And i'm shure, as soon as the first will check what's going on he would inform all of his "friends" and post a message into the chat-room. And then i would say a lot of people will become fear to download poser-files from those sites. I had think more then once what can be done, because i wanted to act against this and not to react when my stuff is pirated. I see this as my personal war against piracy, and it would take me not much time. I just have to start the P2P-Programs while staying anyway on the net. It's not my character to stay aside and complain and whine, i'm more the one who wants to control the bridle. SHARKEY

First, as I said before, I wasn't trying to harm anyone or tell other people how to get free stuff, that was never my intentions. It was an honest concern for how easy things are to come across, especially if you ARE an unknowing person such as myself. There is no real way to tell if stuff is legal or illegal without being around a community and reading things. Some people just do not know. Frankly, without being around here, I would have never known that some Renderosity files were illegal to share. File sharing programs or download sites ARE misleading in that respect if you don't know. One of my teachers asked me if in fact the files WERE illegal because she had never heard of Renderosity. And frankly I do have to agree with ScottA, I'm not sure I want to post messages, or anything else for that matter for fear of getting slammed even when the comments, ideas, concerns, etc are helpful or to look out for someone else's work. I don't blame you ScottA for the concern you have, it is a valid issue. It seems to me people have a tendency to jump on ones ass for well meant attempts. I also don't hold you responsible for other's actions here. The only final comment I have is this: Ban me if you wish to, since that's what seems to be the most common of wishes here. I'm sure there are other places to learn and grow, especially as this is just a hobby for me since I'm going to school for Psychology. But for god's sake, grow up. Arguing and bickering will not solve problems, coming together to find a solution is the only real way to stop something like this. I was hoping that more people would see this, but aparently as someone pointed out in an earlier post, "They can't even organize themselves without turning on eachother." Not only does this hurt the community in general, but is a total lack of respect for emotions and feelings. I have spent the past 24 hours looking back, re-reading stuff...and FEELING GUILTY for something I didn't even do.

Actually, something just hit me, How would you feel if YOUR work was being given away freely and no one thought to tell you becuase they were afraid that you would think, say or do something to punish rather than reward their looking out for you? People who are looking out for other people look at this thread, see what the outcome of this is and say "Ya know what, she got jumped on for a good deed, F**K this I am NOT getting myself in trouble." You don't just hurt the good people, but also yourself. Sure, you can look for yourself and try to get the people doing it but you can't be everywhere all the time. Just think about that the next time you see your work on Morpheus or similar programs.

I went up and looked at this thread. Two people sorta-kinda jumped on Gorthgurl when she started it. Two. Maybe that constitutes a lynch mob mentality to some, but the rest of this thread seems more an intent discussion on warez than any slam on gothgurl. So let's put all of this back into something that sorta kinda vaguely represents perspective, huh? And Robert, I applaud you for trying to "control the bridle"; don't misunderstand. As I've stated over and over in almost every thread on warez that has poked its nasty little head up around here, something should definitely be done. But the solutions I've seen to date have come across as less than effective, sorry. Now if you or someone else has something new that can help with all this, I say go for it. But don't be surprised when someone finds a way to hack around it. There are people out there who live for that kind of thrill.

Thanks for the discourse guys. I'll make one more observation.... Outside the artist community, as in sporting goods retailing where I am, we understand that on a new product you'll make your mark-up in the beginning, then after awhile...it gets cheap. On sale..whatever...in this case..I guess it gets free. You guys are right..pointless to argue about it. I'm sorry I contributed to this carrying on, other than to return to my original thought, which was instead of telling them they're thieves, tell them they can't download it, and why. The old saying here is that locks are for honest people, they don't keep thieves out. Thanks for listening to me, and I'll try to pick less controversial threads from now on 'till I know some of you. Oh...and there wasn't anything wrong with anything gothgurl said...:) Beav

It's true. She came here with the best of intent. Although I made no direct criticism of gothgurl6669, I for one would like to apologize for my less constructive comments and welcome her to the community, "wherein no contention should exist but that noble contention, or rather emulation, of who can best work and best agree." (it's a Masonic thing)

VirtualSite, No problem about those who decide to hack my posted "stuff". The only thing they ends up with is loosing time for less then nothing. SHARKEY

I think the problem is that if you spend more than 2 months at this site, you see this issue come up in this and other forums sometimes up to three times a week. What may be a well-known fact to some members is a total surprise to others. I had no issue with gothgurl's post, other than the fact that I have read the same post by other people a good 30 times now. ;) It doesn't take a genius to get warez, so the illustrative quality of the post doesn't bother me as it does others.

On the other hand, I DO take issue with the fact that SO MANY people in this community feel that downloading music and movies is ok, but trading Poser files isn't. I personally don't worry too much about MP3s and the like, since I think many of the music companies are corrupt, but really, how can you say "OMG Morpheus is evil because you can get warez, but I do like to download MP3s from there.." in one breath? It makes no sense. I personally don't get all up in arms about the warez issue or the MP3s or the bootleg movies, but hypocrisy irritates me. People who wear angel wings and halos on the warez issue while sorting a multigigabyte MP3 collection just boggle my mind.

So, if I offended anyone I am sorry. I didn't mean to demean gothgurl or anyone else in this thread with my comments. Hopefully I have explained myself a bit. I tend to be short when I type and I can come off all snarky when it isn't my intention. =)

People who wear angel wings and halos on the warez issue while sorting a multigigabyte MP3 collection just boggle my mind. IMHO, I think the difference is: we know the people who develop this stuff. We chat with kupa and PhilC and robert.sharkey, and we feel protective towards them. They're family. And we tend to get a little nasty towards anyone stealing from them. But try as I might, I just can't see Twisted Sister as family. Not in even the most vague of senses... =) (Now, Toby Keith? Hmm. That's different, y'know? Nobody messes with Toby... )

The people here are awesome. Since I started posting and such, I have had people go out of their way to help me out. When I couldn't download some dress textures from creed3d, nikitacreed e-mailed me the things I needed. When I didn't win the room texture contest, a merchant here gave me something as a "consolation prize." When I did win the story contest, one of the sponsors gave me more than was promised in the prize description. I couldn't imagine stealing from people here, so I can understand the defensive/protective stance. I personally see warez as an issue of greys. I do not condone it, but at the same time I don't feel the need to say, chase warez people down and send them nasty IMs and such. I just make my art and have fun with the products I have. =)

Have to agrre with Kieraw about the opinion with the mp3's. I know those P2P-Programs because someone told me that my stuff was their. I never have searched for it, means i hadn't know such programs exist while i like to hear music at my book-library before i buy it there. So there's no need for MP3-files. What can be sayd in general about those P2P-shared files is the fact that most of the files their, whether it's MP3 Videos or images, all of them where pirated while violating copyrights. I think the only legal ones are the images which where created from somebody itself and then shared. SHARKEY

Thank you Hiram. Gothgurl, Please don't tell people to "grow up". It's my job to point out when people are being treated badly. And remind them that we are here to help eachother. It doesn't help me when you toss a comment like that back to them. This is how it works: 1.) someone posts a message 2.) a few people take it personally and get pissed about it 3.) I jump in and say "hold on folks" this is not nice 4.) They answer me with "Sorry. Didn't mean to offend anyone" 5.)I say "Good for you for saying that" 6.)The person who posted the original message says. Thanks for not getting pissed at me. I like it here. You people are great. 7.)Everyone goes to the next thread. Happy that they signed up to be a Renderosity member. No one gets warned. No one gets banned. It not a perfect system. But it works out ok if everyone keeps to this format. I hope you will feel safe enough to post here again with any Poser questions you may need answered. ScottA