I would like to know why White Supremacy's hate messages (thinly disguised as art) continue to be allowed in this forum. First Christians then Jews and now Gays (I probably missed the one for African Americans). Hate crimes and bashing are not protected by free speech!

Can you please point out which posts are "white supremacy hate messages"? -Jeff

I think you know who and what I'm talking about. But since I'm in the "minority" I don't expect much to be done. I just wanted to have my say. Thanks.

Okay, but I really don't know at all.

pzrite, send the mods a direct link, they step in really quick, i've noticed from experience. they really don't read all the threads, it's a huge site and very active. dissapointing, but i got over it ;) they might find it a week later, but you can get them there quicker by IM'ing for help. it's their job to check it out too, so demand your service now! ;)

[ Store | Freebies | Profile ]

a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part

"I would like to know why White Supremacy's hate messages (thinly disguised as art) continue to be allowed in this forum. First Christians..." I thought White Supremacist's WERE Christians?

No offense, but, uh... duh, Jeff. Who could he possibly be talking about other than Legume? Who else does anyone EVER talk about anymore? Lord knows, no one else around here ever does anything that makes any kind of statement, good or bad. Well hey, Darth Vader is usually black, so maybe that will cover African-Americans, too? I mean, he's even a slave to his Emperor "Master" and everything. And since he's all half-mechanical and everything, maybe we can even accuse Legume of making fun of the physically handicapped? Milk it, baby! sigh Some people...

"probably missed the one for African Americans" and the one on African Germans, African Australians, African French, African Japanese, African Dutch and of course African Africans

I never said Darth Steve was gay, just flamboyant. There's a difference. You just ASSUMED he's gay because you bought into the stereotype YOURSELF.

The limp wrist, pearls and Legumes comment and title pretty much says it all Says what? that is how you people see gays Uh... no, actually. Maybe you do? Remind me to stand up for your rights sometime. No thanks. I just love how you people run to Legumes side to defend him. I don't think this referred to me so I'll leave that one alone. :)

[ Store | Freebies | Profile ]

a sweet disorder in the dress kindles in clothes a wantoness,
do more bewitch me than when art is too precise in every part

"I just love how you people run to Legumes side to defend him" For your information, Legume is a notorious ass bandit. I doubt if you'll get a date now, after your wild accusations.

Bravo! How dare he presume to suggest what the meaning of his own art is!

My only comment is if you dont like his work then dont go to his gallery to look! As for me I find great humor in most of his stuff, and if your saying I have no right to view it then your infringing on My rights.

What can I say to that? Isn't that the way it's SUPPOSED to be? Isn't that just another way of saying, "since a whole bunch of people really seem to like it, I don't expect it to be removed at the request of a very few individuals who don't"?

Remember the recent controversy over the southern cross flag. African Americans were insulted and degraded by the very sight of it. The good ole boys claimed it was part of their history and they wanted to keep it flying over their government building, irregardless of what it represented to so many people. I agree many people these days are oversensitive to what is not politically correct. While others simply respect other's feelings. The continuous use of such symbolism (Hitler, the swastika, gay stereotypes, etc) shows not only a total lack of respect for other people, it announces to this forum (and the world) that "I am going to send a message and I'm proud of what I'm saying" It makes me sad that the KKK and White supremacy groups used to be somewhat hidden and clandesant, but have now come "out of the closet" using the free speech BS as some sort of sheild. Obviously this problem is not isolated at Renderosity, but this type of "art for the sake of confrontation" saddens me and makes just one more unsafe to be. You all have your right to look at it, defend it, give it life and make it grow. But in the end it's still what it is...a step back into the wrong direction.

So, what you're saying is that it's wrong to depict Hitler AT ALL, even if it's in a ridiculous pinup where he's holding an armadillo? It's wrong to RIDICULE him? You condemn artwork that MAKES FUN OF HITLER? Now who's a Nazi? "I agree many people these days are oversensitive to what is not politically correct." Yes, that's true, and you are a prime example. You want to know what that 'free speech BS' is? That's any speech that YOU disagree with. I'm going to waste my time here and address your initial post once again. I want you to explain to me in exact terms, how my images depict HATE of Christians, Jews, or Gays. Never mind, DON'T BOTHER. In fact, why don't you just shut the hell up? Oh, wait, I forgot, you have FREEDOM OF SPEECH, don't you?

I'm sorry, perhaps I prejudged you, in which case the worst I can accuse you of is being insensitive, which isn't a crime. Hate and prejudice have many degrees, from simple insensitivity to intolerance all the way to violence. I guess I'm just having a hard time seeing where your artwork is coming from, what motivates you, is there a message? And yes I DO disagree with forms of free speech that cause pain and suffering to others. When I say people hide behind that constitutional right, I mean that the original intent of the law was to allow people to speak out against injustices in the government, not to abuse other people. I'd like to think (hope) I'm wrong about you and that you are just an off-the-wall, fun-loving guy. It's just very hard to tell with some of the artwork you have produced.

If people believe in what they are saying, such as the post which challenged Legume's interpretation of his own artwork, then why do they delete their posts? Could it be that they are ashamed of what they've said?

If I show this picture to one of my openly gay co-workers on Monday, he'll be terribly offended ... that I didn't email it to him over the weekend so he could show it to his friends. Look at Legume's stuff. He takes pot shots at all different subjects - especially anything that people try to take too seriously. Does he go over the edge sometimes? Yes. But he makes people laugh, and he makes people think.

Thou shallst not CLASSIFY people" _When do we stop classifying humans in categories, why not making "lists" of humans by category or "races" ? Let our Political systems and "Responsible" ones_LOL ,as many as they are, do that. They always LOVE to do this...and they certainly did and still do it. Just let's ignore them, they are the biggest losers and the causes of decadence and were, are (and would be) the only responsible of the end of any Civilization (Their own ones too,which is a non-sense and the summit about Stupidity). I think the french joke ("Les Guignols de l'Info", french arrogant and so clever marionnetts on some french channel, execellent !)" "YOU watch too much TV !" could be one of the first step to escape the real Webcob and let the spider die ! (The famous George Orwell's BIG BROTHER")..anywhere it's gonna fall. _And you know what we should do ?...just "wait and see" them drowning in their Ocean of Stupidity, in a very soon future and forever,...for these two reasons: _1)_They are in the same boat (our planet) as the ones they fight, and the risk is REALLY for them to be the losers IS NOT EXCLUDED (less and less). _2)_You know...No one can't kill all birds... Is that okay or am I deliring ? Okay, in the short term, they seem to win. Let's see. But: Whew...!!! Let's please calm down about this one or that one Supremacy, and too much paranoia about them, because, until we prove that WE can stop this abheration process, if there were two humans left on earth, I suppose they'd try to kill each other. And this is this state of minds THAT HAS TO CHANGE INSIDE OURSELVES TOO, hasn't it to ? _OR EITHER, FORGET ALL, it would be REALLY "No future!" for no one on Earth, and maybe now you do get now what the 80's Punks tried to mean... Just let's calm down, please,...think it's the only thing we can do....because, after all, except getting "Bread" & "Circus Games", what do Citizens get, anyway and anywhere ? I'm not at all pessimistic, though...This is a very old story, and soon everyone on earth together will reject this crap out of this world, just because "The Future will be what humans will do out of it" Hubert Reeves ...Up to us staying vigilant ! Alfie (nickname: liftan)

I just hate these threads where everybody is arguing, but yet everybody is right at the same time. :/ I haven't seen a whole lot to "think about" since the original MPP stuff, but I have recently found myself wondering what certain people's true motives might be.

What this illustrates for me is how few people who preach the defense of a certain social group from offense do so with any degree of sincerity. So, Mr. Pzrite- you take it as your duty to protect the rights and conscience of black, homosexual, and christan persons whom you assume will be harmed in some manner should they view certain artworks. In that case, I have a few points I would like clarified. Firstly, who asked you? If the answer is "no one", then admit that you speak for yourself. Good enough. In that case you wish to protect yourself from offense or harm by viewing these artworks. Don't look at them. But for the deity of your choice's sake, stop hiding behind socially acceptable rationalization to justify your essentially saying "I don't like this art, take it down." Easily done- buy Renderosity.

First of all, I am prejudice as the next person. Everyone is prejudice, I don't care what they say. (However I believe everyone should be treated with equal respect) I too also hate people who "speak for God" or speak for their particuliar organized religion. Especially if they try and push their own religion on other people. I don't speak for anyone except myself. I have/had relatives who were directly affected by Hitler and by that Nazi flag that represents HATE! As I said in my previous post, I was just driven to ask the artist what drives him to display such "politically incorrect" symbolism. I don't push my ideals on anyone and I hate people who push their ideals on me.

"As I said in my previous post, I was just driven to ask the artist what drives him to display such "politically incorrect" symbolism." That's not what you said when you started this thread... "I would like to know why White Supremacy's hate messages (thinly disguised as art) continue to be allowed in this forum" That is not 'just asking the artist'. That is putting your own condemning label on it and demanding that it be censored. Legume is responsible for the art he posts and you are responsible for the comments that you post.

My two statements were coming from the same place. I originally didn't want to get personal (I still don't) and point fingers at one person or name names. I will stop short of calling a person a racist, especially if I don't know the person. That's why I was trying to keep it general. And yes, if the art is being created from (or for) hate's sake, I still think they should not be allowed in the forum.

You've said your piece, then, and expressed your desires. The PTB can take it from here. Realise, however, that one person's word may not be enough to establish that a particular work is created for hate's sake. The artist claims it was not, I believe.

WHY should an artist's motives or political views even matter? If Atilla the Hun made really good fried chicken, does that mean it's not right to eat it? Please don't think I'm attacking Mongolians with this comment.

Actually Legume, that precise argument has been made only in a different context. Huge ethical and legal debates have ensued over whether or not it is ok to use information learned from medical experiments/torture during the Holocaust in modern research, since many of those experiments cannot be legally repeated today. Dr. Mengele was a mass murderer and torturer, but also happened to glean some interesting information from his "twin experiments" for example. Personally, I think it's a stupid debate. If you can tear a silver lining out of a black pit of hell and despair for the greater good of humanity, why the hell not?

"And yes, if the art is being created from (or for) hate's sake, I still think they should not be allowed in the forum." "Realise, however, that one person's word may not be enough to establish that a particular work is created for hate's sake." Is hate illegal now? It's a valid emotion. Is it going to help things by bottling it up and pretending 'bad' things don't exist? What if I create an image based on my hatred for child molestors?

Kieraw, I'm familiar with that particular controversy, and I agree, It's STUPID AS HELL. The very idea that medical knowledge that could be used to save the living goes unused in deference to the dead is preposterous. Here's an interesting hypothetical situation for you. Let's say that "Saul Greenberg" was killed by Josef Mengele, and that Mengele discovered something during his experiments that would cure a horrible and painful disease, one with anal chancres and eyeball tumors, let's call it "Leguminosis". Because it was discovered by Mengele, the medical community isn't allowed to use the information, because it's "wrong". Later Saul Greenberg's grand-daughter "Dorothy" develops a terrible case of Leguminosis, and, because of the medical establishment's inability to use the research of Dr.Mengele, she is forced to live out the next 70 years in unspeakable agony. Using that research to end poor little Dorothy's pain would be WRONG, wouldn't it?

It's so easy to get drawn into all sorts of hypothetical questions. As it was said before, sometimes there is no right or wrong answers. I started this thread because of the way >>I<< felt. I was not trying to speak for any group or debate any moral issues. I, myself, would like to not see bigotry and hate messages in my Poser art. I still don't know if that was the intent though. As I said, Legume might be just a whacky strange kind of guy that has not experienced being on the other end of a situation where he felt demoralized or abused. On the other hand he might be a member of some radical skin head group that paints swastikas on temples. So, yes in that case, it does make a big difference (TO ME)at what is at the heart of his artwork.

I personally feel a tad offended by some (but not most) of Legume's work, but I don't usually see anything in his work that specifically targets any individual group in a hateful way. The point of my little illustration (that Legume expounded upon) is that there are many ways at looking at what is right and wrong. Just because 99% of renderosity's members don't feel that nudity is wrong doesn't mean that the 1% feelings are invalid, but an entire community shouldn't roll over for a minority, even a small margin. All of the Legume haters just don't get it. The more you post book length diatribes, campaign against his AOM nomination and win, and harangue him about being in the Top 20, the more fun it has to be for Legume. =)

Where are you going with this, pzrite? To let us know that you find Legume's art unfit for public viewing, basically? Ok, we know. Now what? Do you think on the basis of your opinion, that instead of according you the discernment granted most adults, it should be removed from the site so that it won't offend you? Then contact Tim, or tammy, and make your case.If not that, then what resolution do you want?

Oh, "we know" means we know you think something along those lines, not we know it's unfit for viewing. ;]

I really don't know how to answer that Micheleh, I know I didn't post for the reason of causing trouble. I wrote how I felt. So let me turn this around on you, suppose you saw something posted that offended you (as a person or a group). Probably you would do nothing. Suppose you saw it again, and then something again by the same person. Then what would you do? What am I going to do? Probably just shut up (I've said all I felt I needed to say) and avoid any other images by artists that are known to offend me. And hopefully give people something to think. End of story.

HEY ......... LEAVE IT......... THE PERSON who wrote the story did not point fingers. Imagine an intel officer telling the US senates, Intel officer : sir.... we have terrorist in the country. one of the senator : who ? Intel officer : why does it matter ? terrorist in the country. Freak out !!! As for who wrote the message, don't throw arguments if you can't prove it. Otherwise pulling a fight and that's what you did.

This is an interesting, yet "old" discussion. I usually don't bother with any discussion unless the person who brought it up says exactly what he/she is talking about. Pzrite didn't do that, at least initially. The problem I have with Legume is that he doesn't really seem to care about anyone who opposes him. That is why he sends IM messages saying F*ck you, and gets really hostile when he is opposed. Here is a good quote from Legume's own words. In this example, Legume doesn't even signify any value in the opposing opinion.: "So, what you're saying is that it's wrong to depict Hitler AT ALL, even if it's in a ridiculous pinup where he's holding an armadillo? It's wrong to RIDICULE him? You condemn artwork that MAKES FUN OF HITLER? Now who's a Nazi? "I agree many people these days are oversensitive to what is not politically correct." Yes, that's true, and you are a prime example. You want to know what that 'free speech BS' is? That's any speech that YOU disagree with. I'm going to waste my time here and address your initial post once again. I want you to explain to me in exact terms, how my images depict HATE of Christians, Jews, or Gays. Never mind, DON'T BOTHER. In fact, why don't you just shut the hell up? Oh, wait, I forgot, you have FREEDOM OF SPEECH, don't you?" ***** Oh my god, this is the person who was voted Artist Of the Month?! I thought that title would go to someone who has some amount of respect for this artistic community. That includes people who might have differing opinions. Ron

Legume wrote:- Here's an interesting hypothetical situation for you ... There was an article about this sort of moral dilemma in the Daily telegraph (UK newspaper) a while ago. It was called "Citations of shame". It was about scientific articles that use results got by that sort of unacceptable means. One example that I read of is that (some modern work on designing immersion suits for people who fall into cold sea) uses results on immersion in cold water that were done in a wartime concentration camp and published in a German scientific periodical.

Ron, Why should Legume's personal philosophic viewpoints or opinions determine if he should be artist of the month or not? Just because his viewpoints may be a bit abrasive to your sensitive personality, doesn't change the following facts... 1.)One everyone is entitled to have a viewpoint. Which you, for better or worse, proudly display on a regular basis, I might add... 2.)Legume should be allowed the same ability to voice those viewpoints, same as anyone else, like you, for better or worse, prominately display on a regular basis, I might add... 3.)Enough of the members on this site voted for him, speaking their own opinion and viewpoints about the good Doctor, opinions and viewpoints which the owners had to take into consideration, much like they have to take your, for better or worse, opinions and viewpoints into consideration as well, I might add... All of that leads to the fact that no matter what your personal feelings are about Legume, your viewpoint and opinion didn't measure up to the support and demand of our current Artist of the Month... As for your reason for not liking Legume because he, as you said, "doesn't really seem to care about anyone who opposes him", I find this to be a laughable excuse on your behalf... Why, you may ask...? Simple, why in the HELL should he give a rat's ass about the people that oppose him? Think about your logic for a moment... doesn't this mean that you really care about all of the people that oppose your viewpoint? I can name a few people that you've really had a tussle with earlier this week because they "opposed" you... you telling me that in your beration of that certain individual (who's name I won't mention, but his initials are: "DENDRAS"!!!), you actually cared about that person's viewpoint even though he opposed your's? Hmmmm... I really don't think so, or you did an excellent job of covering it up by being abusive, callous, egotistical to the point of downright nastiness and pissed and moaned... Gee, sounds like you have MORE in COMMON with the good Doctor Legume than you thought you did. I am so sick of some people here, for those individuals that have been so nasty to Legume and to others who are members of this "Community" whether anyone likes it or not. I guess for them it seems to make more sense to be pathetic enough to point fingers, piss and moan and running to Admins anytime their over-inflated sensitive egos or fragile narrow minds are offended or threatened in this "Community"... than to sit there, shrug and move on with their own lives and avoid or ignore the crap that makes them into whiney school yard children. I may not always agree with Legume or be fond of some of his work. But, one thing I can say about Legume is that he is an unique individual. He tolerates the shit people throws his way. He doesn't piss and moan or whine to the admins if he gets a ONE or a NASTY comment in his gallery. He doesn't make public posts flaming individuals, calling them names, swearing at them, send them hate mail or Private Messages... he takes it, like a man, shrugs and continues doing his own thing... if anything, Legume is far better than allot of individuals in this "Community". And that... that is pretty sad, people... Of course that is just my viewpoint and if you oppose it, well tough shit, I could care less also!! Jack

"Now who's a Nazi?" Hey, uhh, Ron, buddy, that's almost calling him a Nazi, which seems to me like a personal attack, so just watch it, OK?

Jack D. Kammerer, You know nothing of my feelings, my attitudes. I respect other people's opinions as long as they don't swear at me, call me names, and threaten to come over to my house and finish the discussion. I don't rant and rave "shut the fuck up." I don't send IM's saying Fuck You. I at least attempt to have a meaningful dialogue where opinions may be expressed on both sides. I don't think I've ever seen Legume respond to anyone's disagreement in a civil manner. Gosh, should Legume or anyone else care about people who disagree with them? I thought Renderosity was a community where people come together with a common bond. I thought this was a positive bond, not an excuse to insult, persecute, threaten people and go running for help if someone stands up to you. Oh, and I thought there was a set of rules, called TOS (for short) that helped govern our behavior here. It seems you and others do your best to prove me wrong. *** MikeJ, ""Now who's a Nazi?" Hey, uhh, Ron, buddy, that's almost calling him a Nazi, which seems to me like a personal attack, so just watch it, OK?" Those are Legume's words. I clearly quoted them in my message. If you have a gripe with those words, go to the source. Ron

Well, if you're quoting, then use quotation marks. That's what they were invented for. Sorry if I wrongfully accused you.

You might want to spend more time reading before you react. Look at this part of my message again, if you please: **** Here is a good quote from Legume's own words. In this example, Legume doesn't even signify any value in the opposing opinion.: "So, what you're saying is that it's wrong to depict Hitler AT ALL, even if it's in a ridiculous pinup where he's holding an armadillo? It's wrong to RIDICULE him? You condemn artwork that MAKES FUN OF HITLER? Now who's a Nazi? "I agree many people these days are oversensitive to what is not politically correct." ***** Notice I said "Here is a good quote from Legume's own words." That's a good tipoff.

Ronknights said: "I thought Renderosity was a community where people come together with a common bond. I thought this was a positive bond, not an excuse to insult, persecute, threaten people and go running for help if someone stands up to you." So you're are exempt from your own thoughts as to what this "common bonded community" should be? Because I have witnessed you insult people, I have seen you persecute people, I have seen cases on the forums where you have threatened people and I have seen you go running for help as soon as someone stood up to you... so... you are exempt from this utopia that you think R'osity should be... curious... I don't see Renderosity being a Community of Common Bonded people... thank God!! I see Renderosity as being is Community of Diverse Individuals who have come to share their artwork... REGARDLESS of Race, Religion, Political standings, differing viewpoints and/or opinions with each other. The freedom to express those viewpoints in both forum discussions or individual artwork... The minute that your COMMON BONDED utopia is established here, then Renderosity would undoubtedly become the standard of censorship and a site filled with a bunch of mindless automatrons pumping out image after image of the same BS, day after day... Jack

Look Man, where I went to school we tend to keep our thoughts grouped together in sentences which remain on the same line. You can argue with me 'til you're blue in the face, but that line, "Now who's a Nazi?" is on a separate line, separated by a whole space above and below it. It LOOKS like a separate thought, displayed like that, and additionally it SOUNDS like something you might say. Also, it's not in qoutes. I guarantee you I can read, and I also think I have a reasonable grasp at communication, and equally, I try to follow at least some semblance of "rules" when typing and composing sentences. Now why don't you just scurry along and hang out with your myriad of admirers in the Poser Forum some, and for your own sake, don't even look in this thread again.

Hmmm... an egotistical, sarcastic reply from Ronknights to MikeJ... good to see that you practice what you preach Ron... don't insult people my ass..!! Jack

"Look Man, where I went to school we tend to keep our thoughts grouped together in sentences which remain on the same line." When I am quoting someone, I copy and paste their words. I don't rewrite them. Again, if you have a problem with Legume's words, talk to him. **** Jack, there was no insult there. I just made a constructive suggestion that someone should read closer before they react. "So you're are exempt from your own thoughts as to what this "common bonded community" should be? Because I have witnessed you insult people, I have seen you persecute people, I have seen cases on the forums where you have threatened people and I have seen you go running for help as soon as someone stood up to you... so... you are exempt from this utopia that you think R'osity should be... curious..." I deny those charges. What I think is most interesting is that people condone overly aggressive and abusive behavior on the part of those they support. But when someone who disagrees speaks out, then they have much stricter rules and over-inflated, untrue claims. Oh and I just love it when someone keeps bothering me, I keep telling them to leave me alone, and they run for help because I'm harassing them?! Dendras writes me an IM that basically says f*ck off, then threatens to come to my house to fight, and then complains about harassment?! Gosh, that is certainly acceptable, isn't it. Get real.

"Again, if you have a problem with Legume's words, talk to him." Did you not notice the part where, above, in message #42 where I said, "Sorry if I wrongfully accused you."? You know, I've decided though: Arguing with you is like arguing with a small child. Nothing gets through.

"Now why don't you just scurry along and hang out with your myriad of admirers in the Poser Forum some, and for your own sake, don't even look in this thread again." "You know, I've decided though: Arguing with you is like arguing with a small child. Nothing gets through." **** Gosh, I thought we were trying to have a discussion. Personally I don't like arguments if people think they're an excuse to insult others.

I have to agree with your assement Mike of his disposition, it is a waste of time trying to talk to someone who thinks that they are a Martyr... Jack

Damn, Ronknights is the best friend Legume's ever had, and he doesn't even know it! I mean, every time he gets involved in one of these Legume-bashing threads, by the time he gets done shooting his mouth off everyone hates him so much that they all pile on him and forget all about Legume! Ronknights is the best defense Legume could ever have. Keep up the good work, Ron!

"I have to agree with your assement Mike of his disposition, it is a waste of time trying to talk to someone who thinks that they are a Martyr... Jack" Yes, I agree. I hope I never run into someone who fits that description.

Of course, this is a pointless question, since we're all in agreement around here at least about one thing, but.... see what I mean? ;)

Just when this thread had been resolved, the toilet overflows again. Oh well, best to just ignore it all and work on my new character instead. Coming soon: My new character "Don". He's a fat, ugly and useless annoyance to the world. Come watch him display his stupidity while his family is forced to support the parasite. The funniest thing about Don is that he doesn't even know what a loser he is, despite the preponderance of evidence. If anyone would like to help with the project, I'm looking for story lines depicting situations that you imagine Don might become involved in.

Attached Link: http://silvermage.net/3d/buckrogers/spatrl.html

*If anyone would like to help with the project, I'm looking for story lines depicting situations that you imagine Don might become involved in.* He trieds scuba diving and after all that expense buying kit, the Sea Patrol catches him, as described at this link.

I win the prize! I'm really great! I get the crown and a dollar-ninety-eight!

welcomesite, Anthony Appleyard "Coming soon: My new character "Don". He's a fat, ugly and useless annoyance to the world. Come watch him display his stupidity while his family is forced to support the parasite. The funniest thing about Don is that he doesn't even know what a loser he is, despite the preponderance of evidence." *** That has to be one of the most uncalled for, cruel statements ever made here. You have some nerve. The only evidence seen around here is that some people don't know a damned thing about having a civilized conversation. I've never treated anyone like this in all my time here. Why don't you go somewhere and cool off, and return when you feel more like talking?! *** Oh, Legume, I love the fact that at least half of the people who left comments on your front page story agree with me! I read your interview thinking that maybe I'd see a side of you that overcame my previous impressions. I wasn't really suprised to see you made a farce out of the interview.

He said 'Don', not 'Ron'. Gosh, why do think he meant you? Guilty conscience?

Some people always think they are so interesting that other just have to talk about them.....

To clariy >>MY<< position again (which started this whole discussion: I don't oppose Legume, I am not taking any sides. As far as him winning Artist of the month, that is not the issue, I'm sure the people that voted for him are great fans of his artwork. The issue for me, which has been made clear during the process of this entire thread is the motivation behind his artwork. It boils down to either: 1 - Irresponsible disregard for sensitive issues (which if you live and interact in a social community is a skill that is much prefered) 2 - Or bigotry, predjudice, superiority, hate. The other thing I realized in this whole process is that Legume has not and will not admit to being in the second category. Which I didn't expect. In one of my previous posts I gave him the benefit of the doubt of being a just a whacky guy that means no harm. But that hasn't been confirmed either. So what gauge do we use to say something is inappropriate? Network television is usually considered about 5 or 10 years behind the times when it comes to what is socially acceptable (in language and behavior) But I don't think I would ever see his work on TV even in the next 10 years.

"He said 'Don', not 'Ron'. Gosh, why do think he meant you? Guilty conscience? " **** Oh jeepers, now we have the games. Insult someone and deny it. Here's a quote from TOS (These rules have been flagrantly violated countless times.): Members/Users will not use this community for; Any practices that affect the normal operations of the community (Admins will take whatever steps are necessary to restore service). Transmitting any libelous, defamatory, or any other material that could give rise to any civil or criminal liability under the law. Personal attacks. This includes but is not limited to, destructive, abusive or defamatory communications in any form. Destructive commentary/communications (Trolling). "

Hmm. Just for giggles, I went and checked on Ron's assertion that "at least half of the people who left comments on your front page story agree with me". OK, when I checked, 47 comments. 35 were congratulating me. 7 were upset. 5 didn't say either way. OK, that's about half, I guess, if I use the new "Ron Math". OK, Ronny, wrap your head around this: if so many people agree with you, why did I win?

I suspect many people didn't bother to vote. I suspect as well that you and your supporters managed to "stuff the ballot box" like you did with the Top20. At the time I read the comments, it was about half and half. I had not read them again till you posted your little insult. I did go back and take a tally. It doesn't agree with yours. Of course it was hard to tell how some people felt about you, even after I read the messages. I do know that some messages in that area have been eliminated before they were seen publicly. I was rather surprised that my comment was axed, since it was far milder than some that have already been posted.

"Network television is usually considered about 5 or 10 years behind the times when it comes to what is socially acceptable (in language and behavior) But I don't think I would ever see his work on TV even in the next 10 years" Well, let's just examine that. Mad TV did a skit a few years ago where the Terminator goes back in time to stop Jesus from being crucified. Jesus kept having to bring Judas back to life because the Terminator kept killing him. At the end, Jesus is crucified, as the Terminator sits in the crowd saying, "He'll be back". Comedy Central shows South Park, where Jesus, Hitler, and any other cultural icon gets blasted all the time. Monty Python's Life of Brian. Self-explanatory. Mel Brooks' Hitler on Ice, The Producers, and Blazing Saddles. I guess because Brooks didn't depict Hitler in the approved light of "bad man", he must be anti-semitic. I imagine, as an anti semitic Jew, his life must be quite complex. And the fact that he used the word "nigger" throughout Blazing Saddles must mean that he hates blacks as well. Seems to me that I'm in pretty good company. It's not that my work is outrageous at all, really. The problem is that many of YOU are SERIOUSLY UPTIGHT. And you know what? I don't give a damn. The fact is, I'm here, my work is enjoyed by many people, and if you don't like it, tough shit. Don't look at it. The fact that some (a very few)of you would be so very happy to run me off and stop (the many)people who enjoy my work from seeing it shows YOU to be the kind of person who Renderosity doesn't need; a small group of self-appointed Saviors of the Community whose loud and incessant bleating is really irritating to people like me who come here to enjoy ourselves. What's your motivation? You all know there's only one person here named Legume, and you know goddamned well who I am. So if you look at my artwork and get offended, knowing who I am and what I do, you have absolutely no right to BITCH, any more than if you keep sticking your hand in fire over and over and crying about getting burned. And yet you do. Because that's WHY you look at it. You ENJOY the burn. You WANT something to complain about. If that's your motivation, then I feel really sorry for you and the sad, miserable lives you must lead. Why the hell don't you people just drop this crusade already, and let people make their own decisions about what they want to see or not see? For Christ's sake, you sound like a pack of old puritan grandmothers waving their bibles and screaming about women showing their ankles. If you're so upset that I'm artist of the month, maybe you should consider the LARGE part you played in getting me there.

Huh? Are you saying that you fit the description of my new character? If so, do you think that you have a copyright on those 'qualities'.. and that no one else can be so blessed? How do you know I wasn't talking about Legume?

"I suspect as well that you and your supporters managed to "stuff the ballot box" like you did with the Top20." Prove it. The admins here have no reason to want me as AOM. In fact, it's going to make their jobs hard, because of malcontents like you. In fact, I'd be willing to bet they checked REAL CLOSE to make sure that I won legitimately. The only stuffing that went on was them stuffing their votes in the box, expressing through their legit votes their opinion as to who they think should win. That's their right, just like it's yours. In the future, I encourage you to follow their lead; take your opinion and stuff it.

PZRITE: YEAH, WAY UP THERE- CAN YOU HEAR ME? ;] If I saw an image that really offended me, you know, I would probably shake my head, and wonder at some people, but other than that- do nothing. Unless it was in a sufficient context to actually presage the possibility that it implies action- I saw once where someone had painted an intersection sign to look like a shwastika- I immediately went to the nearby Jewish Community Center (they have a great gym) and told them. They unpainteed it. I have a teendency to jump to conclusions at times- when I first started posting here, I got into it in a minor way with Legume. I realised, however, that I was hitting people over the head with my standards, which doesn't work. During that, Legume was never once rude, and I have come to see him as intelligent, posessing of an odd view, and somewhat likely to go off when virulently attacked (like who isn't.) RonKnighs, for deity-of-your-choice's sake, chill. So you got an IM that was rude- that doesn't mean you have to go into a sustained fit. You're only going to wear yourself out, and not accomplish anything, other than to make people cringe when they see your name in a thread. I'm not saying this to be hateful, though you may take it that way- I just like you alot better when you make sense. Your constant attacks on Legume are getting ridiculous. If you are after something, say it! What do you want from this situation? You seem to be very skilled at walking into a conversation and inciting people as much as possible, merely for the purpose of turning it into what you percieve as a personal attack against you. This then gives you the right to lash out in whatever manner in your "defense". However, that's kind of like stepping into the road and fighting the cars because they tried to run you over. Well, duh!

Legume, "Prove it. The admins here have no reason to want me as AOM." The admins didn't cast their votes. The artists did. The issue of your taking over the Hot20 has been well documented in previous threads. You got hotly involved in the conversations so I'm sure you remember them. *** "That's their right, just like it's yours. In the future, I encourage you to follow their lead; take your opinion and stuff it." This is exactly why I object to your getting AOM. It has nothing to do with your art, even though I dislike it intensely. It has to do with your overtly hostile, un-disciplined, abusive attitude. **** Micheleh, "RonKnighs, for deity-of-your-choice's sake, chill. So you got an IM that was rude- that doesn't mean you have to go into a sustained fit." I guess you missed the description of the behavior? I received several harassing IM's, and emails. The guy threatened to come to my house and settle the argument!!!! That is not only a violation of TOS, but it is illegal. I don't see how anyone can minimize or condone that behavior, no matter what the provocation. "I'm not saying this to be hateful, though you may take it that way-" I understand "I just like you alot better when you make sense." I'm making perfect sense here. I object to people who make it a habit of abusing others. I object to knowing that Legume was "elected" AOM. That means one whole month of that knowledge. "Your constant attacks on Legume are getting ridiculous. If you are after something, say it! What do you want from this situation?" I'd love to hear Legume say that he is sorry. I'd love to hear him say that he was wrong with his hostility towards others, that others have a right to disagree, without being degraded or threatened. I'd love to see Legume remember who he was and what he did before he decided to embark on his latest crusades. I doubt those wishes would ever be realized. Ron

Micheleh wrote: ".....I saw once where someone had painted an intersection sign to look like a shwastika- I immediately went to the nearby Jewish Community Center (they have a great gym) and told them. They unpainteed it." Okay, so this is my point. Why did you take action in this instance? Because you know what that symbol represents. Does it matter if it was some high school kid that painted it as a prank or if it was the KKK spreading a message of hate. No, it doesn't really matter, the end result is that the very sight of it is not socially acceptable (except maybe in the history books) Legume: I am a big fan of Mel Brooks and I loved The Producers, however it did jolt me a little bit to see Hitler dancing around. I didn't complain because I know Mel Brooks doesn't hate Jews, because he is one. His MOTIVATION was innocent. This reminds me of the recent Boston Public episode where they discussed when and where the N word is acceptable (notice I don't type it out, because the word itself is offensive). It seems that it's okay that African American people can use that word with each other, but the eyebrows get raised when a white person uses the word, simply because most of the time, when it comes out of the white person's mouth it has feelings of prejudice or hate attached to it. Once again, it seems to me that your motivation is not one of hate, so as far as I'm concerned the matter is dropped. You're a weird strange guy with a warped sense of humor, that somehow likes to get us sensitive people all tied up in knots. But I appreiciate you indulging me (sort of) and not personally attacking me, which I tried not to do to you.

Good enuff.

"I'm making perfect sense here." To you, maybe. "I object to people who make it a habit of abusing others." So do I. You should stop. "I object to knowing that Legume was "elected" AOM." That's how every AOM has ever been picked. Keep up your attacks, Ron, please. Artist of the Year will be arouind before you know it. "That means one whole month of that knowledge." Hmmm. I think I see your problem. Most folks retain knowledge longer than that. "I'd love to hear Legume say that he is sorry." OK. I'm sorry that you don't like my art. In the future, I suggest you exercise the optionm of not looking at it. "I'd love to hear him say that he was wrong with his hostility towards others, that others have a right to disagree, without being degraded or threatened." There you go, lying AGAIN. I never threatened anyone, and I'm sure if I ask you for proof, you'll just change the subject as you always do when called on your bullshit. "I'd love to see Legume remember who he was and what he did before he decided to embark on his latest crusades." I've always been posting art here that's controversial. There was no "before". "I doubt those wishes would ever be realized." And even if they were, you still wouldn't be satisfied, because that means you'd have to shut the hell up, which you have no plans to do.

"I suspect as well that you and your supporters managed to "stuff the ballot box" like you did with the Top20" See, Ron, here is a perfect example (actually one of many) of why more and more, people don't want to try to have any sort of conversation with you: Your "facts" are wrong, yet you state them with such authority. While it's true that there were a few people during the early days of the magic Pink Pony who did create new accounts and voted for the Hot20, those few votes were inconsequential, and were removed, and warnings about it sent out, and yet, there were still enough votes left to keep them there. And I can assure you that the same thing was watched for during the voting for AOM. The comment about half the people commenting on Legume's win is another example.

Your check should be arriving shortly.

"Okay, so this is my point. Why did you take action in this instance?" It's about context. There is a difference between an interpreable(sp?) media (art) being displayed in a place meant for it (with attendant content warnings), and defacement of public signs. I still have the photo I took of that somewhere- if I put the photo in my gallery, it would be art. RonKnights, if Legume's actions were as evil as that, by all means, have the man arrested, banned, whatever you can do. You say you have evidence. Why not use it? Back up your accusations. Or admit you are unwilling to do so, and retract them.

"I'd love to see Legume remember who he was and what he did before he decided to embark on his latest crusades" LOL!!! Oh no you don't! What you've been seeing is like, Legume Lite here, man! Even the rudest stuff as of late is tame in comparison...

Glad all that is settled. Hypothetical question: If a repulsive person is impotent.. and unable to make their own children, should they be allowed to create content that attempts to lure children into their clutches, similar to a 'Michael Jackson'?

Now where's my check? ;]

WS- what do you mean, allowed? You don't allow anyone to make anything. What would matter would be any action they commit which could be considered child molestation, unless you refer to the creation of child pornography, which is a very different matter. Both are illegal. The creation of art of unspecified content is not. Otherwise, we would have to arrest anyone who makes hentai. You cannot prevent any sort of crime by forbidding people any means of expression which presents their interpretation of the crime or its rammifications, if that be lterature or art.

welcomesite, "Hypothetical question: If a repulsive person is impotent.. and unable to make their own children, should they be allowed to create content that attempts to lure children into their clutches, similar to a 'Michael Jackson'?" *** Oh please. You know darned well who you're talking about here. You know darned well that comment is uncalled for, and totally inappropriate for this community and this forum. This type of behavior merely confirms my charges that Legume and his friends are far more abusive than anyone who opposes them. **** I take my children's poetry and art very seriously. That work is far more valuable than a series of "in your face" cartoons. It is one thing to thumb your nose at me, and hurl childish insults. It is another thing to compare me with an alleged child molestor. I thought you folks had already sunken as low as you can go. Once again, you proved me wrong. Legume is Artist Of the Month? Renderosity has literally gone to HELL. *** Micheleh, "RonKnights, if Legume's actions were as evil as that, by all means, have the man arrested, banned, whatever you can do. You say you have evidence. Why not use it? Back up your accusations. Or admit you are unwilling to do so, and retract them." You're getting your facts mixed up. Dendras made the physical threats, while Legume merely said F*ck you, and called me and others names. As for evidence, that is readily available if you care to see it. I've already provided that evidence, and pointed people to it when they apparently missed it. That is one good thing about locked threads. The evidence remains, even though the conversation was ended. That is, unless those threads were since deleted. If you don't care to do some research, you need only read this very thread to see evidence of my charges against Legume. But you will only see what you wish to see. Again, your very actions only serve to confirm the charges I've made. Thanks for your cooperation. Ron

"That work is far more valuable than a series of "in your face" cartoons." See, this is why you feel so out of place here: You just don't get it. You don't understand even the smallest thing about art. You think it's hgot to ba all happyy-happy-joy-joy, Love, Sunshine, rainbows and pretty pictures that "mean" something positive. Tt CAN be, and I'm glad that it is, art also, for centuries now, has also had a dark, disturbing facade, too. Both forms are equally valid, and whether art is viewed as positive or negative is up to the viewer alot of the time. Now, go ahead and prove me right by saying something so lacking in insight that even my kitty will be embarassed if she hears it.

"That work is far more valuable than a series of "in your face" cartoons." Willikers! He actually came out and said he was 'better' than Legume. How does one quntify the value of art? Ron, please provide a chart.

I'm good enough I'm smart enough and gosh darn it people like me

You fail to understand that no person has the right to hide behind his art and insult, abuse or threaten others. That type of behavior should never be rewarded. *** You fail to understand how hard I've tried to keep my part of this conversation in a civilized tone. Not once have I told someone to f*ck themselves, or threatened anyone. The closest I've come is to say my art is better or has more value than Legume's. His art comes with a price that is not acceptable. My detractors, on the other hand, have broken every rule in the book.

Notice me! Notice me!!!

"Dendras made the physical threats, while Legume merely said F*ck you, and called me and others names." LOL. My bad- you shouldn't snipe two people in the same thread, it's confusing. Arrest dendras, ignore legume. There. "But you will only see what you wish to see. Again, your very actions only serve to confirm the charges I've made. Thanks for your cooperation." Nothing will convince you that the sole purpose of this thread, and even some artists' existence isn't to personally wound you, will it? That's sad. You've incited your argument. Do you feel righteous enough for one day, now?

"The closest I've come is to say my art is better or has more value than Legume's. His art comes with a price that is not acceptable." Thank you! You really made my cat's day! Now if I can only get her to stop laughing.....

Ron, I've seen your art. It's boring and pedestrian. It didn't make me think, it didn't make me cry, it didn't make me feel good or bad. It didn't make me feel at all, one way or another. Legume's art, on the other hand, always makes me feel something - whether it's anger, disgust, curiosity, whatever, it still makes me FEEL and that's why I think it's much better than your art. And that, for ME, is the whole purpose of art. If it doesn't speak to me in some way, if it doesn't grab my attention, engage my emotions somehow, then it's just not what I would call art and has absolutely no value to me whatsoever. Kate (who did NOT vote for Legume for AOM, btw, because AOM is not something I find important at all)

"Nothing will convince you that the sole purpose of this thread, and even some artists' existence isn't to personally wound you, will it? That's sad. You've incited your argument. Do you feel righteous enough for one day, now?" I don't feel that way. *** I've just gone back over this thread and noticed how many other people found problems with Legume and his attitude. The difference is that the others walked away. Most likely they realized there is no way to discuss this in a rational and civilized manner.

Now is the time for what I believe to be my concise summary argument: "Like, whatever." ;]

"Legume merely said F*ck you" Yes, I did, and the person to whom I said it, Virus, publicly apologised to me afterwards. Yet YOU, who had nothing at all to do with the exchange, keep throwing it up as if I said it to YOU. I have NOT said it to you, but rest assured I certainly think it every time I see your name on my screen. And you STILL haven't shown where I threatened anyone.

"I've just gone back over this thread and noticed how many other people found problems with Legume and his attitude." Yet more lies? I just reread the thread and see no post, other than pzrite's, that didn't support Legume. Even pzrite has basically apologized for his inflammatory first post and has made his peace, showing that he has respect for Legume. If you want to 'count' things in this thread, try counting the people who have respect for you.

Ron, you should have just taken my advice in post #45, and gotten yourself out of this thread. Your ideas of how things should be around here would work great on an art site run by Barney, but you will never be taken seriously around here, as long as you communicate like a kid, yrt think you can discuss things with the adults. And you WILL always have this same problem in EVERY thread, and you DO. Why do you suppose that is? Part of the larger conspiracy to mess with Ron? or maybe, Could there be an actual, tangible reason why you always end up in this same situation over and over again? Do yourself a favor and give up. You can't win, and it's not because you're surrounded by Legume fans either. I'm not a Legume fan; although I've LMAO over some of his pics past and present, I wanted to see roobol win AOM, and that's who I voted for. So it's not because we're all a part of Legume's gang that we have a problem dealing with you, it's because we're adults. Not just physically, but emotionally and mentally, as well. Reality is a good thing. You should look into it one day.

Exactly, I'm repeatedly accused of being part of Legume's 'so called conspiracy'.. but I didn't vote for him either, or for any of his pics to make the Top20. The 'common element' that many of us share is not our consipracy with Legume.. but rather our disgust for someone else.

"Your ideas of how things should be around here would work great on an art site run by Barney, but you will never be taken seriously around here, as long as you communicate like a kid, yrt think you can discuss things with the adults." "So it's not because we're all a part of Legume's gang that we have a problem dealing with you, it's because we're adults. Not just physically, but emotionally and mentally, as well. Reality is a good thing. You should look into it one day. " Being an adult doesn't mean you need to act like a child. You don't need to swear at, abuse, threaten, degrade those you disagree with. In fact, being an adult is quite different. That last statement was indeed very childish. ***

I'm sorry. I'm in a bad mood because I haven't had my nap yet, and my sister's hogging my Legos.

Ron, for the record... it's RENDEROSITY and not RONDEROSITY!!!

Oh this surely must be something out of the Barney Show: "Member/User Conduct: "Members and users are asked to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships. "Members/Users will not use this community for; Any practices that affect the normal operations of the community (Admins will take whatever steps are necessary to restore service). Transmitting any libelous, defamatory, or any other material that could give rise to any civil or criminal liability under the law. Personal attacks. This includes but is not limited to, destructive, abusive or defamatory communications in any form. Destructive commentary/communications (Trolling). "

Tha't some great rhetoric there, Ron ol' bean! Thanks for posting it for the 'umpteenth' time.

All this talk has me inspired to create my first "super villain." He's green, has a big head, and has a most obnoxious attitude. This character is always thumbing his nose at people, and when they object, he puffs up, spit runs out of his mouth, and he swears till he almost passes out. What will I call this character? Leg.... Oh, how about Vegetable Man?!

How about we don't continue down this path?

giggles personally I think ronknights is amazing. I never liked Legume's art much but now thanks to him I'm starting to see it with new eyes. Legume couldn't really ask for better help than Ron indeed. :)

::chuckles:: This is so laughable, I love the fact that we are going to be dealing with the aftershocks of Legume's nomination for the next month. Artist of the Year is going to be a real hoot!! Ron, you are making this so delightful!! I love how you've accused Legume of telling you to fuck off, when it wasn't you he told to fuck off. I love how your paranoia gets the better of you, whevever someone makes a side comment (such as "Don" or "Micheal Jackson")and you want to attract an admin to come and save your sorry ass... Okay, so I will oblige you in this if only to get you to shut up... Ron, I object to your way of expressing your inner child. I object to your sarcasim and constant sarcastic abuse to Legume, Dendras and other members of this forum. I object to your overinflated, hypocondreact, persecuted self esteem. If that is not adult enough for you, well then, f*ck Off... see now you can add me to your list of accusers!! There, how is that for an intelligent, civilized and adult conversation? Now you really have a reason for that paranoia :o) Jack

ROFL@Swanie!! RONderosity!! That kills me!! Jack

Thanks for the inspiration.

THAT Legume should've been the image that you used for R'osity's front page!! Jack

Hey Doc! ronknights wasn't the inspiration here. I posted o pic of myself almost identical to this in the Tavern not too long ago. You obviously admired it so much your subconcious liberated it for your own nefarious needs. Now I know that Ron is an 'important' individual, but please... let's give credit where credit is due. :)~

Jack****... Jack, whomever: "Ron, I object to your way of expressing your inner child. I object to your sarcasim and constant sarcastic abuse to Legume, Dendras and other members of this forum. I object to your overinflated, hypocondreact, persecuted self esteem. If that is not adult enough for you, well then, f*ck Off... see now you can add me to your list of accusers!! There, how is that for an intelligent, civilized and adult conversation? Now you really have a reason for that paranoia :o) Jack" Are you denying that others, including yourself, have spoken like this before? You call this adult conversation? I've known 3-year-olds better behaved than you.

Ron, if you are so unsatisfied with this place and people around here, then go away...find some place else...just go...

Ron... just to help you some... JackASS or JackOFF would be spelt with 3 asterasks not four.. JackMEOFF would be spelt with 5... JackINABOX would be with 6 asterasks... I love how you can equate people as childish and not see that as offensive... you are so AWESOME!! I've known 3 year olds that can count better than you. :o) Jack ~who wants to be a LEGUME when he grows up!!

There is a difference between not liking the "bad apples" who spoil the bunch, and not liking "the orchard," or whatever the proper symbolism would be. Renderosity has a stated set of rules which are supposed to be "our mission," our "rules of conduct." Some people are not following those rules, and in fact are flagrantly abusing them and whomever stands against them. This is not some playground where I need to leave if I don't like the way someone perverted the rules. This is, however a place where I have every right to expect civilized treatment. Again, if you're not sure what that means, read the section of the TOS I provided above. Ron

Why don't you just repost it?

Infact I was just about to make a reply to Ron, but Ill let Legume about replying...he is sooo much better in this game than I am...I was starting to be a tiny bit annoyed...

Ron said: "Some people are not following those rules, and in fact are flagrantly abusing them and whomever stands against them." Including you... Ron ol' chap. Ron said: "This is not some playground where I need to leave if I don't like the way someone perverted the rules." For a person who constantly equates people as children, one would have to then think this IS INDEED a playground. Ron said: "This is, however a place where I have every right to expect civilized treatment." You get what you give out (or so my grandmother was fond of saying). You expect people to treat you in a civilized mannor, but in the same breath you equate them as children in prominate and sarcastic overtones... and when challenged by me, you even resorted to name calling, very much like a child that you accuse others of being. For a man who has not ONCE, not TWICE, but several times in this thread posted the TOS, you would think that you'd have read them and would live by them yourself before trying to enforce them or call for enforcement of them... Ron you are lucky I am not in charge here anymore, I would've relieved you a while ago from having to exist in a place where no one gives you "civilized treatment". I guess you have something to thank God for when you say your prayers tonight. Jack

Okay Doc, You asked for it... And even if ya didn't... Here it is again. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ah! :)~

Jack, I've sat through an entire day of silliness from you and others before I started to resort to even a fraction of the misconduct you and others have been doing from the start. So why not take your own advice, and treat people with respect, or stop whining when you get what you give?! I would hope you didn't act this way when you were in charge. The same goes for "Legume," which I believe is French for some form of vegetable.

Here's another quote, from a different section of TOS this time. I'm really amazed at the tremendous difference between "the Rules," and what actually goes on here. ***** "Renderosity maintains a Zero Tolerance on certain behaviors within the community. These include, but are not limited to the following. Any threats of physical harm, property damage or acts of violence toward another individual, or group of individuals." "Members/Users found practicing these behaviors will immediately have their membership revoked, and access to the community permanently blocked from the community including any duplicate accounts for the same person. The member username and reason for banning will be announced in the Forum News and Team Contact Forum. In addition the appropriate legal authorities will be contacted, and if appropriate charges may be filed."

At least we are true to our nature there, Ron, my young lad. I give because I can receive, Ron. I have faced far more bullshit than you could ever dish out, you are an amateur when it comes to this... given enough time at this, you can be a prick like me too!! As for the way that I acted when I was in charge... hmm.. I would like to think I was fair. Some may think that I was a bastard, which I can be... and though I made some mistakes, for the most part, I did okay... even acting like this... to bad you weren't around back then, I would've spared the Community of your self righteous BS a long time ago... ...again, I guess you have something to thank God for when you say your prayers tonight. Jack

Jack, In my day I've faced far greater dangers than you and all your friends. That includes being shot at, etc etc etc. And I've been insulted by people who are far more talented, and have a far better vocabulary. That is one of the interesting things about wasting a day here. You think you're "so bad," and that I had better say my prayers and be thankful you are not in charge. Oh, Puleeeze. Now I'm going to put away my Legos, and take a nap. I'm sure I'll see you in my nightmares.... OOOOOOOO.

And if there's anyone around here who knows how to be a real bastard when he wants to, it's Jack. So, you have been informed by one of the best. ;) Ron, all you need is time, and a desire to try to understand more about people, and I'm sure that trying to understand more about yourself wouldn't hurt. many of us, myself included, have been done a similar road as you in terms with our relationships with other people around here. But as time goes by, you begin to understand. There are several people here I din't used to think had anything valuable to say or contribute, or who I just plain didn't like, but...you learn. And, you get over it. And you make friends out of people who you once viewed as enemies. maybe, maybe not, but you learn how to conduct yourself around them, and you at least gain a certain degree of respect for them. It comes with trying to undersand the place, and the people. The nature of the internet makes it soooo easy to just spout off whatever you want to, but the reverse side is that others have the same ability. You don't have to "play along" or even agree in order to get along.

Believe me, I know how to "act in the real world." If I encountered someone as objectionable as what I've encountered here, I wouldn't hesitate to stand toe to toe and express myself. And I dare say we probably wouldn't waste all day talking about it before we had a mutually satisfying understanding.

Mike...are you a dreamer or what... ?

Everyone is talking about Ron Congratulations Ron. You got what you wanted, again. Did you ever see High Pitched Eric, on the Howard Stern show? Everyone finds him repulsive.. but he's not concerned with that, he's happy as long as he gets 'on the air' and gets the attention that he needs. See ya in the next thread that you disrupt.

I vote we let Jack back in control :D

...why someone would shoot at you.

"...are you a dreamer or what... " Well, it was worth a shot. Reasoning aand Logic don't work, apparently. Even facts don't work... Oh well....

in this case nothing work...

... but really, in a strange way, you kinda have to admire him! I mean, it takes a hell of a lot of self-confidence to always keep thinking you're right and the twenty-odd people against you are wrong... snicker

"If I encountered someone as objectionable as what I've encountered here..." Well, what are you doing here then? You don't want an art site like this. What you want is something YOU want, and I suspect it's just a happy little place where everyone is like Chip and Dale to each other: "excuse me...'oh, no, excuse ME'..." There is a place almost like that. It's called The Poser Forum Online. It's a whole separate website. You'd probably be alot happier there, but I bet you'd manage to get yourself tossed out in less than a month, in spite of the fact that it's alot closer to what you're looking for.

I found a lima bean that looks just like The Leader!

I was really tempted to claim the domain RONDEROSITY.COM and make all members Ronknights and have forums like: Not True-Forum, Is So-Forum, I'm Making An Ass Of Myself-forum and Read The TOS Thousands Of Times-Forum. Maybe that will keep him away from here? evil grin

We really don't need to get personal with people this way. End of thread.