Ok guys - here's your chance to tell everybody what you want. Be as specific as possible :) What kind of male characters do you want to see out there? What kinds of clothes? Based on Mike or the Dork? Would you pay for said character/clothing? I figure this'll get some artists moving in the right direction. And of course, I have a secret plan Lyrra

I'm easy! lol I want the P4 BOY (not the dork) to look decent. (same with the baby and the girl) I realize that I have to continue what I started today, - take my instruction manual and read about morphs, - sigh But there is so much to learn! :) Britt

Well, I haven't found the right kilt for what I have in mind. (a Highland kilt) I'd love more period clothing. 18th century to be specific, scottish to be even more specific. :-)

My Wishlist to Santa Lyrra: :clears throat: I want some loose fitting... monk type clothes for Mike. (like the pic that follows... um.. yellow fellow not included) And maybe something thats kind of like thip's mantle but more just the hood and goes down far enough that you could fit it underneathe something else easily. Id pay for both... I don't know what I'd pay :Grins: but I would pay. Especially for the monk type.. thingee in the pic :grins: Anz

I know it's not for male character but I would be willing to pay for some millenium kids clothes..... A shirt with long sleeves/no collar and a longer skirt would be a nice start for the girl :) Elaine

Oh I've been VERY VERY good Santa Lyrra.... Very good ;) I even made chocolate poser cookies for my Poser Santa for Christmas! My wish list for guys.... ohhh boy..... Well I'm wishing for a more mature but sexy male based on Michael. I've seen all the young and good looking but lets see the Sean Connery and Richard Dean Andersons of the poser world.... 55+ and only looking better by the year! Okay this said, put some age but not decripitude on one. Greying, but still imposing, and don't be afraid of a few scars for character. On the other end of the spectrum I'd definately be in the market for a male that is just this side of geeky and shy. Take James Spader playing Daniel Jackson from Stargate. Sorta bumbling, thin, in no way buff, but still nice to look at and with expressions to match. Too many of the Michael poses are either powerful or handsom, but not many of them fall into the loveable but totally whimped out without being hideous. Hope I'm making any sort of sense. And on the clothes wish list..... Casual... something for the shy geek to wear that isn't completely formal or perfectly fitting. A nice sweater, a vest, an open neck shirt maybe... some loose fitting slacks? Loafers? On the other side, heck if you're really asking.... Ever see the Castlevania drawings? Those incredibly high necked jackets that fit just right with the ascot, the lace and that huge cape? Hmmms and looks about for the picture...... rumple... http://www.classicgaming.com/Castlevania/art/konami/dx03.jpg http://www.classicgaming.com/Castlevania/art/konami/dx10.jpg Oh I fully expect that these would be pay for, after all you're paying for the quality stuff ;) But if you feel up to the challange, oh I'd definately be first in line to beta test and purchase! Okay, I'll go drool in private now ;) Lilfox

:grins: I agree completely with Lil on the older and the castlevania drawings.. :Grins: that would be increddible! Anz

Little fox: Check freestuff for "Valandar's Vanity"... heheheh... a thin, kinda geeky guy that's still in good shape...

Clothes: a decent three piece suit in three actual pieces. Tailored, not like a huge pair of shoulder pads attached to oversized garden hose sleeves. Casual long sleeved shirts that are square cut and designed to be worn outside the pants. A t-shirt and dress shirt for the P4guy that actually tuck into the jeans and pants. Bib overalls. "Montana" style clothing (He's a French designer with a wonderful sense of style.). "Fifth Element" styled suits, with simple elegant lines. A tuxedo. A good tuxedo.

Oooos and goes to pounce upon this ;) Got a specific model I've had in mind and that might just do the trick ;) Thanks! But don't be ashamed to make another one too!!! ;) Smooches Valandar. Lilfox

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=44238&Start=13&Artist=Poppi&ByArtist=Yes

This is one of mine, that I sold privately last year. Would you be interested in someone like him...or, less ethnic? (More regular, anglo/saxon type features?)

Lyrra: please see the teeth thread for my list. ;) Also, some clothes and morphs for those clothes that uhm, decrease Michael's bra size. Significantly. grins at Virtual Site

I would like to see more Medieval style and Cyber style clothes for both Michael and Victoria. :) Jay

winking right back =)

Ooos actually he's nice Poppi! Though do you have a closer render of his face? Very curious, but I love the faint grey on his sideburns. Maybe just the faintest hint of stubble and a few of the creases/shadows of age around the eyes that show that smile ;) Just some thoughts... Lilfox

Once again, Jay, I just got a tunic pack accepted for the store, and am working on more period and fantasy clothing... 8-)

Poufy pirate shirt. Real Pirates of Penzance, romance-novel type. Kind a like the shirt in Travler's swashbuckler set. And I concur with the 3-piece suit and tuxedo. Mike's gotta look good when he goes out on the town with Vicki. Texture maps with body hair. All I can think of just now :)

I know you said for Mike or Dork, but I would like some cloths for MM Boys. A polo shirt or Dress shirt with tie or Jacket or.... anything for the Boys, the t-shirt is getting OLD... they screwed us by using the Vicky mesh, it would have been nice if they had used Mike, and at least at 85% he could have used Mikes cloths. Niles

Well I'm working on the first set of a series of character packs (with clothes) with a modeler. We had been making them just for p4, but I think we've decided to make Mil versions as well. I'm not gonna let the cat any further outta the bag - but I am paying attention to what people are asking for in the way of people and clothing. We have some definate themes planned for future sets. And yes, we are planning non-male characters, including some work with the original poserkids - make the ugly twins look different at the very least. :) We just figure there's a saturation of pretty females, heroes and fairys. And now to address the rest of the thread: Britt: like I said we have some plans for the poserkids, as will as the milkids, but feel free to email me specifics Kendra: I think there's a kilt at DAZ, but it's a modern kilt, not a greatkilt. Not sure if there's one of those kicking around. As for Victorian clothes go look up PhilC's own website (www.philc.net) - he has a victorian coupls and also 'period' mens suits. Anzan, That looks hard to do - but I'll wave the picture at my modeler and see if he feels challenged :) Looks like three pieces - hooded cloak, split sided overjacket with sash and poofy pants. The picture goes into my inspiriation files anyways :) Odyssey, See previous note to Britt about the p4kids - since we'll be making mil versions we should be making some stuff for the milkids too. Meanwhile you can use Mike's clothes as long as you scale like crazy - it works for me :) Littlefox, Well I have a free older Mike texture up on my website - but he's kinda battered, meant to be an older mercenary type. We do have some geeky guys planned :) Thanks for the Castlevania drawings - yowza :) I'll take two to go with extra chocolate sauce. grin They'd be goth or swashbuckler I think :) As for everybody else, thanks very much for the info, it'll help us figuring out what to make next. And hopefully this thread will give more modelers ideas of what to make next :) The more the merrier :) Thanks! Lyrra

ohh goodie .. err all of the above, I would love to see more period clothing for Mike, and ESPECIALLY jackets and shirts minus the huge shoulder pad look and wide sleeve .. as Virtualsite mentioned .. They drive me nuts trying to scale them down to something believable because then the chest area gets screwed up since the top part of the shoulder is usually attached to the collar/chest area..

I am personally interested in anything medieval or fantasy looking... for michael preferably, or Poser Dork. Things that would be nice... Tunic Baggy pants Medieval looking boots (lace up and swashbuckler style) Armor Scabbards Torcs Helmets Gloves/Gauntlets Etc.

Personally, I use Michael, not Dork. What I'd like, and would pay for: A real business suit. Fantasy armor that actually can take damage! Traveller's gothic armor is nice, but not quite what I need. Clothes that match Vicki's stuff. (E.g. I snapped up Anton's Olympians because it had His&Her stuff.) Real male hairstyles!!!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=596505

Lyrra, Here are some of the things people have been talking about in the previous post listed in the link above. I've gone through it and pasted those ideas here. Goth clothes (tight pants, boots, ruffled poet shirt, fitted long jacket with big lapels and large cuffs) - see hottopic.com or the movie Interview with a Vampire for some basic examples. ;) Would be great if they at LEAST fit the basic appropriate full body morphs (thin, young, toned, etc). This set could also double as a vampire outfit. Cyberpunk clothes. Not *armor.* I am talking ripped fishnet shirts over black tee shirts, vests, combat pants that tuck into some decent boots, and good jewelry and hair to match. Sort of "The Crow" like. People try to do this with his body suit, but it would be nice to have actual conforming pieces that look good. Or, for something really wild, clothes like Brad Pitt's in Fight Club. Fun, different stuff. Mike is tired of being boring. ;) Think Mike as a raver. Strider from Lord of the Rings. 'Nuff said. ;) More period clothing in general, preferably to match some of Vicki's available sets. Native American Mike. Doesn't have to be Native American in particular; Daniel Day Lewis looked pretty good in his hybrid colonial/native gear in Last of the Mohicans. JEANS! Real JEANS for Michael! And also for Vicki. The Vicki pants don't make very good jeans... More super hero outfits or characters?! I would love to see more Native American clothing, current trends in male fashions, ANYTHING as long as it FITS Mike2 with the muscular morphs. More Western wear. Western style chaps. As Eowyn said..JEANS..something that actually looks like jeans. Shirts and jackets that can be opened as in the dress shirt for Mike. Michael could use a line of athletic clothing/uniforms. Name any sport and make clothes for it. uhm... okay. I would kill for a decent tailored three piece suit for Mike. I know that Poserworld has one, but it's all one piece. Give me one that's in separate parts and DOESN'T look like David Byrne's Big White Suit from Stop Making Sense. Beyond that: things with a little more contemporary flair. All of Mike's stuff is hopelessly trapped in the "classic" look: polo shirts, suspenders, sweaters, and the like. But IMHO the few attempts at doing something like the greatcoat used in Matrix have failed in capturing the structure of it. Need inspiration? Pick up a copy of Details or Homme Vogue. Definitely a ruffled poet shirt, something romantic. Also, a longer, loose fitting open-front vest. Maybe something like a vagabond might wear, too. Something bohemian and comfortable. Pirate stuffage!!!! Poet stuffage!!!!! Matrix stuffage!!!! I would love something Baroque or Elizabethan or even REAL Gothic. What I'm really looking for is untidy, down-right wornout clothes. And, yes, I would snap up in a heartbeat, anything goth, ripped, or ruffled. As long as you can open it up to the waist. I'd love to see a good 15th to 18th century sailor or pirate for Mike. medieval Russian costumes for both Mike and Vicky -- big, jewel-encrusted robes, great big hats, these things are a texture artist's fantasy come true. Then, later in the 19th century, the Boyar uniforms: again, big, beautiful stuff, reminiscent of the guards in The Wizard of Oz. I would like to have a generic, long clothing for man, that can be turned into different old tunics and other classical clothes by use of transparency maps. A sort of "universal tunic".

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=574147

And also this link.

Whoa! Ok! jeez guys - we can only do so much :) But I get the idea Pictures are great - the more the merrier, but you can send them directly to me and not kill bandwidth any more than we have to. lyrra@cybernex.net :) Now I'm not gonna promise anything - the hard part is up to my modeler, and I'm already working the poor guy to the bone here :) But all this really does help me in planning out our next set theme. If these things sell, then we'll be making more. ahem with hopefully asome freebies to go with I thought someone made jeans already for Mike/Vick? or were those for VV only? Lyrra I'm gonna go make a female characters thread now. this should be fun.

I know you're fed up with feedback by now Lyrra, but I just want to add my heartfelt request: Victorian style clothing that conforms to Michael: frock coat, shorter style coat and waistcoat, that sort of thing. PhilC's is lovely, but while it will load the Michael head with the upgrade, it doesn't conform to the Michael figure, and I really want one that does. And YES, I would pay for it! Immediately! And if you know of one that someone else has already made, could you tell me where it is? And thanks for taking the time and effort to sound folks out about stuff you're planning to make available. It's very thoughtful of you!

I didn't mean to kill this thread - by all means feel free to add you .02 in as long as you all like. I just was having trouble keeping up, people were posting before I finished responding :) BTW anyone who requested modern mens clothing - send me links for FREE catalogs (I'm poor) with pictures of the stuff you mean. Strangechilde I wasn't aware that PhilC's upgrade didn't actually fit the clothes to Mike. Yes that's annoying, isn't it. Uh Daz might have and I could prod Fairywood/poserworld - but I think that Phil's is the only one I've seen. Maybe SergeMarck could be convinced? Well I'll put it on the list, but don't hold your breath. We have more than enough to keep a whole team of modelers/texturers working fulltime for month, much less the two of us after hours. As far as sounding people out - its called market research. :) why bother making something to sell if noone will buy it? and also, no point in adding to a saturated market. So no heroes for me :) I'll stick with .... but that would be telling :) (and that's called advertising) Aint I stinker? Lyrra

Thanks Lyrra! I've looked all over the place and not been able to find anything... maybe I should just throw out a post to clothing designers. I'm about to embark on project for which I'll need stuff like this.

A very interesting thread, many good points. I've taken notes :)

Couple of questions:-

Do you want P4 AND Michael versions?
Do you want the Michael version to follow his form exactly even if it looks as though he is wearing a bra?
Where a figure only shows the head and hands are you really concerned about how the rest is put together. I have various options:-

Standard conforming
Parent the head
Construct in similar manner to the P4 casual figures

Each gives an identical visual result but I accept perceptions will vary. What are your views?

Again my thanks for a very informative discussion.

Hi Phil! I certainly agree with you on Michael's chest size. He is a bit... well... beefy. It's the posing of the figure that makes me want it to conform to Michael: one gets much more realistic poses out of him, I find. Also, I do rather prefer his shape, chunky as he may be. Models constructed like the casual P4 people based on the Mike geometry would be great too, especially if there were a few morphs similar to the body morphs on Michael; I'm particularly interested in the Heavy and Thin ones (that might address the humongous chest issue as well), and the Stretch Arms/Stretch Legs, for creating taller and shorter characters. Or could such a thing be done with conforming clothes using the Tailor program? I recall you saying in another thread that you'd gotten that. I'm one of those Mac weirdos, or I would have as well. Would this be a very difficult thing to create? I'd buy it in a minute. :)

Can I add my bit please. More historical clothing. How about 17th cent not the fantasy type but a cavalier musketeer, pikeman, dragoon or even better regency male clothing not hollywood types. Maybe some Napolionic stuff Lancers Old Guard Hussars, those french types were real dandies. I have been looking for some good uniforms from around this period ever since i came to render, lots of posibles here both male and female, or some conforming segmented roman armour, and maybe some decent chain mail, How about ww2 german, brits, japanese, french ,German SS, Flyboys not forgetting the 40s fashions, or how about dior style female wear from 1949 to 1951 Historical uniforms are my thing is there any one else out there who has seen any re-anactments here in sunny england i was for 13 years in the Sealed Knot, re-enacting the civil war between king & parliment. very physicle it was too broke a few bones long the way, not like the ACW lot in USA we could hit!! people.So Yeah love to see some thought into making some Historical stuff

PhilC, The biggest argument for using the milpeople fullbody versions is the flexibility of movement. If your clothing figures are jointed the same way, I suspect people will have less quibbles. I really didn't expect this thread to take off like this, but hey - cool :) Gives me a warm feeling to be reply 32 :) I just wanted to kinda poll the audience, for my benefit as well as other modelers. Cliss Well I'm not sure how much RL historical stuff we want to get into - but I'm putting your ideas on the list too. Its very tempting to do Landschnect - for the texturer. I think the modeler would kill me. :) Well off to my Real Job (tm) Wheee. Lyrra

Lyrra, I will make some period clothes for P4 man before the end of the year (it's in my list), but not for Michael. It's true that it's seems that poser users are more interested in woman clothes (as they are more interested in nude textures than in clothes LOL). So I suppose merchants answer to the principal request ! I must admit I prefer to model dresses, but I'm just a man ... ( any psychoanalyst hereabouts ? ) Serge

Inspired by the Castlevania image referred to in Lilfox's post I started this this morning. I'm just running to the store for a supply of midnight oil. I think I'll be needing it. :)

That's lovely, Phil! I like it! Are you going to have that up for sale eventually? Lyrra's comments about the flexibility of movement are spot on for me-- it's actually the only reason why I haven't already purchased your Victorian Couple and Period Men's Suits, which are pretty much exactly what I need. Ever since I bought Michael and got used to posing him-- well, there's no going back, is there? I still like Dork, but only in limited capacity. His capacities are limited, poor fellow. :)

Awesome, awesome, awesome. More more! Think you could add a lace prop for the front? That way the user could decide if they wanted a frilly guy or not. ;) I hope you end up selling this. I knew I was saving that last little bit of extra cash for something, like new Mike clothes. =)

Phil, Looks good so far - some ideas/questions/points Are the pieces separate? I'd rather have the option to take the outfit apart if possible, more flexibility is good. Or if they are as one unit, the waistcoat should be possible to make invisible and still have complete geom for the shirt. My largest problem with the Adventurers outfit is that Mike's tights aren't complete geometry - if you hide the tunic he flashes :) If I'd known that I might not have bought it. There have been a number of requests for opening shirts - so that might be a consideration - as well as the addon ruffle (with transmap for lace) If its possible to a) make morphs for the cuffs for length and movement and such and b) make them removeable (invisible) so that those lovely gloves can be put over with out nastiness with the shirt. (which means the shirt sleeves need morphs to fit in the gloves, and to make that poofiness adjustable depending on the length of gloves/bracers) And of course, are you planning on matching the young/thin bodymorphs on Mike2? as that seems to be the prevailing type for this clothing :) Can you picture muscle4 in this? eeeeew :P oh and does anybody know of tights for mike? period hose - superhero tights - whatever. Tights :) And NOT the daz bodysuit.

Thanks, all points noted. As for the rest you'll just have to wait and see :)

That's another point for me-- much thought you'd never see a Victorian gent without coat, I'd love the option. I am SO demanding.

Well since we're having a dialog with the designer :) the worst he can say is no, and if we're lucky at this early stage it'll be easy enough for him to change things and not get cranky. And yeah, you don't often see a proper gentleman en deshabille, but it has to happen sometimes :) Now all we need is for someone to make that hair - I've yet to see a good waist or longer length hair model with good movement. maybe Anton's new tech idea (the fantasy beard) will do the trick. :) Lyrra

I am waiting for Mehndi's new Ultra set for men. Elven Court or something like that. =)

Phil! That's fabulous! As long as the shirt is it's own separate piece, I love it. Ditto what Lyrra said about it opening.

I, like phil, was inspired a bit by the castlevania images. I threw this together today...still have gloves and a cape to make, but the idea is there. Please keep in mind that such things aint gonna be easy to pose..and to make each part a conformer will make nightmares and headaches come to the most peaceful person (not to mention make it more expensive because of the time and aspirin expense :)) Have to say, I dont like making clothes. Im bored already and its not finished.. Anyhow, heres the start of the caped dude with alterations so its not 100% done offa someone else's idea and gets into the intellectual copyright issues. :) BT

Quick question. Isn't it simpler to make the clothes into figures in the setup room and then just pop the head and hands on?

Brycetech! Don't get bored! Please! =)

Yeah Bryce, for clothes like that we'll come up with a song and dance routine for ya :) (now that's a frightening thought) Lyrra

Period clothes for Micheal, definately. I have a couple of Phil's things on my wish list but was waiting to see what the 'mystery model' was - now that we pretty much know it's just some morph target and not something like clothes, I'll probably go pick them up...and wait for your goodies, Lyrra. More variety of modern clothes. Phil's set does a pretty good job and I'll probably get it and maybe work on some textures and transmaps for variety. Decent hair for the Dork! I looked and looked a few months back - good hair makes such a difference! The Bangs Cut set over at DAZ, it turns out, has stuff both for Micheal and the Dork, and there's Koz's Gombei hair....and Micheal has a couple other hair packages, but most of the time the Dork is left with that lump of play-doh on his head. Nice male lesuire wear for those of us who like to do romantic pictures - you can find plenty of stuff to clothe the female figures in, but we need a nice open robe that you can put a 'silky' texture on for the guy. I think there is one for the Dork but I haven't seen one for Micheal.

Musicat, I was thinking that myself after I went to bed, musicat. Micheal has some great non-human targets built into the mesh but not a lot of clothes or costumes to go with him. Laura

Bloodsong made a lovely Mikebased seapixie character - its free on her site Lyrra

I was hoping that that the Mystery Model from DAZ was going to be some awesome clothes for Mike but they are doing that bloody female character (as if we need another one). I just don't understand it at all. Make an awesome figure and then don't support it much after it's release. Well, we don't need to go into that here. There have been too many other message forums doing that. We need to stick to the clothiong issue here.

The boots are separate figures. The sleeves contain multiple morphs to go from slim fit to full. The front opens slightly as shown. Knowing you lot, you'll want this without the jacket also :)