Why is it, that of late, all you see when you open up the Poser galleries is half naked, or fully naked broads with swords? Or standing there, flaunting the T&A like its Renderotica, or a damned Playboy magazine? Don't these artists have TALENT do something besides a nude? I mean come on! Really, I've never posted a true nude as I have yet to do one that is truely classy, such as the work that Dalinise, Stormi, Debbie M, Magnet, and a few others do. I don't mind Tasteful nudes. But when all you see is some one buying a texture, slapping it on vicky, putting a sword in her hand and giving her a lewd look and pose, well, the image reeks of teenage male testosterone. Its like "OOOH I CAN DO NAKED BABES AND NOT GET IN TROUBLE FOR IT!". Please. I've seen classier images in a smut magazine. I want to know what part of the community thinks of this. Maybe I'm just a lil old fashioned as I enjoy tasteful artwork, not T&A. Thanks. ~Blade~

Here we go again. If you don't like 'em, don't look. Is that so hard?

not what I'm talkin bout Mosca, and you know it. Its about the actual work itself. Think about it.

oh, geesh, is it THAT time again? I guess next week is the Hot20 , it usually comes up right after the gallery and nudity rants... :-)

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

I think the good thing about Art, is that everyone has different tastes.We are all here to display diiferent views on ART.While some like "women" with swords, some like to display "women" with see thru underware in front of a fireplace. Both are tasteful and both are "ART"........

nah. I'm not to worried about the Hot20. Sheesh, I never bother looking at it. I just wanted to hear other peoples opinions on this subject, not spark people off LOL.

While I agree with you Vicky (naked and other wise) is overdone I like to do enticing or erotic pieces, however if you look at my gallery I like to do other stuff too. that might be the place to start look at others whole gallerys?? are they just naked Vicky or do they do other stuff?? Personally I like a range, now I will admit the naked stuff gets more attention, and some time we do our art for attention. anyne that ells you other wise is unusuall. perhaps if we paid attention and commented on the non naked work, it might encorage more non naked work?? what do you think. I started posting on Render to get feed back I live in a home that has few good art critics.

I think that is exactly right tonymouse. The non nudes rarely get attention or comments to encourage the creators to continue posting them. Maybe they have bunches and bunches of non-nudes sitting on their hard drive (or on CD) and they don't post them because no one ever seems to notice....

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Good question. But very poorly worded. I expect all of you who address his question. To concentrate on his question. And not how it was worded. ScottA I'll be watching.

LOL, yep LadySilvermage, I am one of those who have non nudes sitting on my hard drive, I, myself, do not "nudes" as I think sexy is having something left to the imagination. Hence, most stay on my hard drive as the ones I do post are hardly ever looked at. But, I do what I like to do and have fun so.......

In a world filled with causes for worry and anxiety...
we need the peace of God standing guard over our hearts and minds.
 
Jerry McCant

Thank you lady S M, I noticed very soon after I started posting my non naked stuff it recieved little attention. the ones that wanted the most feed back on it does not stop me from posting but it would be nice to hear more. Perhaps we need to fnd ways to encorage them to share their other stuff too.

"Or standing there, flaunting the T&A like its Renderotica, or a damned Playboy magazine?" "I've seen classier images in a smut magazine." Sounds like you're talking about the nudity, not the work as such. Don't like boobies? Don't look.

"that of late"...????? Seems to me it's been this way the whole last year+ I've been here...and I agree so much that I finally quit going to the galleries about 2 months ago..I got tired of smelling the "teenage male testosterone" I feel like in my 40's, I'm too old for the galleries...if I wanted so much T&A's I'd go to Renderotica....

Hard to separate the question from the wording, Scott. Maybe you should rephrase it for him.

Sure Mosca. Why is clothing so hard to find in the galleries? How's that? :-) ScottA

cause Mike doesn't have any.... oh wait - no one looks at nude Mike much either....

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

BladeWolf, I believe that you are exactly correct. - except that .... reality is sort of like this ... Poser provides the vehicle to allow a non-artist to create artwork(?) (i.e., nude females (and males)) without any, or very little, real artistic talent. Reality is, the world is a constantly changing place and right this minute, some "newby" is loading up Poser for the very first time. That person will see a Poser2 casual male, and think, "big deal." Then they find out that (oh-my-gosh!) there's a nude male and a nude female in my library! Oooooo wheeee! So, they load up Posette or Dork and start playing with poses, lighting, camera angles, etc. Then they get tired of that level. After a while, they discover (nude) texturing and "Voila!", a whole new aspect of the new "artist's" world is opened up. Then they discover Renderosity and say, "Hey, my babe (or guy) isn't too bad looking and I can "post" it for the WHOLE WORLD to see and maybe if I get lucky, someone will post a comment and tell me that I did a "great job!" So, what's wrong with that? Even a dog likes to be patted on the head once in a while, no? And, so they post ... (some good, some bad, some mediocre) their artwork and wait for their "pat on the head." It's the real world, and it takes all kind of people. I, also, agree with Mosca. Maybe this anecdote will help clarify that. **************************************************** An elderly woman who lived in a apartment building called the local police to complain that a man in an apartment was undressing in an open window and that she was highly offended by this. She said he did it every night at eight o'clock. Well, the police finally agreed to send a couple of officers to the woman's apartment that night to observe. Sure enough, at about eight o'clock, the man across the way started to undress right in front of his open window. One officer observed, "But, ma'am, you can only see him from the waist up!" "No, no!," she shouted, "Come over here and stand on this table. Then you can see everything!" ********************************************************** I guess the moral is .... If ya don't like the view, don't stand on the table! Last time I checked, nobody forced me to: buy a computer hook it up to the internet turn it on access the www log on to Renderosity click on the "Poser Forum" or "Art Galleries" link prowl around until ... Ah Ha!!! I've found something I don't like. Now, let's see, who can I report this to? Oh, I know, the admins, they'll handle it ... cheers, dr geep <---------------------------(getting down from table) ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

One way to combat this is to look at non-nude pictures and comment on them. If more non-nudes get attention, people may put more effort into them.

An attempt to answer this seriously without beating an already deceased and increasingly decaying equine. Why do you see so much nudity in the Poser gallery? Because, at least in part, it is very difficult to to good realistic looking clothing in Poser. There is no way to easily simulate the effect gravity (and other things) have on cloth. Also the reason you rarely see seated female figures that are clothed. Most of the clothing female figures do not bend properly when the female poser model is in a seated postion. I think if Poser did clothing better you'd see more clothed figures. And, also, of course, because nudity gets positive feedback in the galleries in terms of views and comments.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

People (and Vicky) come naked from their creators. Nude bodies are beautiful (unless you've seen Norman Mailer in a speedo lately--ew!). Nudity in art places the subject in a deeply vulnerable and undeniably, essentially human context. Anyway--yawn. This whole debate is almost as silly as John Ashcroft spending $6,000 for curtains to conceal the Justice Department's bare-breasted statuary; I can't imagine anything more provincial and idiotic, frankly. Tits. Butts. Weiners. Pussies. Big fucking deal. Don't like 'em? don't look. The people who are truly obsessed with nudity are the Ashcrofts of the world; why else would it upset them so?

True... my wording was a lil... pissy. I can't help it. There's so much more that you can do with Poser than just a naked man or woman. I've done only two pics with a woman in lingerie. That's been it. The rest have been mainly facial studies as I am trying to work my way into Maya and get myself taught there so that I may be able to create worlds and the like. The main is issue, as stated by geep and several others is yes, I look at more non-nude pictures and comment on them, but why can't people work on originality? What is so hard about breaking yourself away from a naked model and concentrating on creating something like a Facial Study, or true figure studies, and the like. Yes clothing is hard to come by, and even harder to pose and the like, but that's what makes it a challenge. That's what makes it real art, the ability to creat an image from adversity and imporbabilities. I applaud artists such as Blackhearted who has done work with more than just a naked model, some of his work is just breath taking. Same with Stormi, Dalinise, Debbie M, Catharina Przezak(hope I spelled that right). I've only had poser since August of this year, as it was a late birthday gift from a friend of mine, but I've learned sooo much in that time. At first I was thrilled, oooh naked models! WOOO! Then I began thinking, maybe I can use this to get a visual on some of the characters in my stories, and what not. That is when I bought Vicki and Mike, went nuts getting textures and the like, and even tweaking the ones I bought to suit my needs. If the average poser user would learn the software, then you'd see less nudes, and more complex images. I am currently working on my 4th Face Study using StefyZZ's Asia, as she is truly a texture guru. I'll also be doing some with Michael as well. Maybe what we need to do here at Renderosity is put a section up that is totally dedicated to nothing but the naked human form, and allow people to post there. I dunno, maybe I'm just off my rocker.

And Mosca, its not the nudity that gets my goat, its that every time you turn around, its the SAME IDEA with no twist, no originality, NOTHING. That's what gets me.

There I agree with you. Maybe all the nude-renderers should do non-nudes for a week, and all the non-nude renderers should do only nudes for a week. Maybe then we'd all have a better understanding of the challenges inherent in both.

BladeWolf,

The Japanese have a saying ...

"A thousand mile journey is started with a single step."

Some people take a second step and go no further ...

Some only go a few miles ...

And, others progress and continue to do so.

I believe that same thing applies here at Renderosity.

We have a very wide variety of "artists" here from all around the world; all age groups, all genders (opps, was that not PC? ;=] ), and all levels of talent.

That is part of what makes this a great place, the variety.

I'm no genius, and my artistic talent wouldn't fill up but a small percentage of one of Posette's fingernails.

However, I love this place ...

• because -

... of the extremely wide variety that I see here.

I usually learn something new everyday.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I don't always do nudes, but I enjoy doing them. Not due to testosterone (being female) but because I find that style of art more to my liking. Some aren't even nude... there are at least 2 wearing rosary's and one that's pierced in plenty of places ;-) I equally enjoy doing images that are clothed/multi figured and have somewhat of a story behind them, none of them get much attention, but I enjoy doing them and so I just continue on... I have seen some images here where teh artist always does the same cheesy badly done nudes (one artist in particular comes to mind) but I know that and so I never look at his stuff. I also don't get offended by it - I just shrug and move on.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

That too, but its more or less about originality. I usually do a small series of things, like my facial studies, and I've also had a commission for a free work come in from a person here. That and I've been working on some sketches for a new peice, based off of Command & Conquor and a post apocolyptic war, from a short story I read in a local writers magazine. That's what I'm getting at. Where's the originality?

Well said Lady Silver Mage. And your work is tasteful, same with yours Geep. And I love this place too, I'm working on getting the webring up on my site so I can let peeps know all about this place. It just frustrates me when all you see in the thumbnails is some bimbo with a sword. Again, going back to originality.

Ok, this is to "whom it may concern."

I have a pet peeve. Vicky's eyes.
(BTW, is it Vicky, or Vickey, or Vicki, or ...... ???)
You can spot 'em from a mile away.

Here's the challange ...

Using only Vicky ..... make her face NOT look like Vicky.
[no offense, Vickey, you have beautiful eyes - it's just that they seldom appear to change]

Any takers?

If you post an image, it MUST be face ONLY. [nude is ok!] ;=]

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Thanks BW. ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Well, my own oft-cited theory, Blade, is that Poser provides something of an outlet for (mostly) guys who have trouble with the real world and the real women you find there. Sure, Vicky was based on a real model, but she probably no more represents that model than Kupa, who was the original model for Mike, represents him. Both have been idealized and enhanced, and it's that idealization that has been both bane and boon to Poser. Why the nudity then? Well, aside from the obvious reason above, clothing is also a bit of pain sometimes. When you can't even pose something as simple as a t-shirt and a pair of jeans without having to fiddle with half a dozen things in the process (Hello, Curious, are you paying attention here???), I can't blame people for not wanting to deal with garments on their models... unless, of course, it makes those models look "oooo... sexy..." =) As for everything in the galleries looking alike, you're right there, no question. When it's always the same mesh to begin with, the chances of anything unique is pretty rare right off the bat. And when you watch the galleries, you'll find things ride in waves: we're finally (I think) over the "temple" stuff, save in the odd image or two. People are just marking time till the next Big Prop is released, and then we'll see render after render based on that. It's no different from the real world: a show like Friends is successful, then next season we see lotsa Friends-clones, none of which have the sparkle of the original. Well, same here: we have a few artists who are amazing at what they can do with a naked broad, a helmet, and a sword =), while the rest are doing acceptable copies. Damn, that sounded harsh. But it's also true. But there are a few out there who really push this program in some very cool directions. Davidho and Dragongirl immediately come to mind, and I'm sure others will recommend their own favourites as well.

Until abstracts took all the fun out of art-- personal opinion-- you saw a whole lot of naked wimmen in any art gallery. The objectification of women is a common and boring topic in many art circles. [anything I post is all my opinion so I usually don't use the ubitquitous IMO] I'm female and well over 50. I did a nude for the first post I made in the gallery because I didn't know how to put clothes on Vicki. Truth. But I also like nudes, of all kinds, gulp, even Norman Mailer if Annie Leibowicz will photograph him, though I'd prefer Keith Richards if we want to get scary. The last few things I did were clothed but if I get more odd shaped figures, and I have, they will probably be nude because it's hard to clothe them. I do think that there has been a tendency to overlook the Nudity check box lately and that might take care of the problem for people who are fed up with nakedness. Though I'm betting it will not. I think it might help to know this is an ongoing debate in art in general. But this old lady votes for T and A.

Not everyone is capable of original thought (I've taught college-level creative writing for a long time; I know what I'm talking about here). So what? Let them post; that's what this place is all about. Challenge yourSELF, Bladewolf. I mean, I generally find head-shots about as interesting as 2% milk--never bother with 'em (hey--there's Vicky gazing soulfully into the middle distance! Woo-hoo!). Sci fi and fantasy also generally spring from the same tired junkyard of worn-out cliches. The lesson is that what's capital-O "Original" to you might very well be incredibly tedious and nerdy and trite to oothers.

IMHO the biggest limitation of this medium as a form of "art" is that unless you are willing to become a modeller you simpy cannot fully express what's in your imagination. As a sketch artist I can visually recreate almost anything I can imagine. It's hard to justify expending long hours learning to "model" a helmet say when I can draw it in 20 minutes (and if it doesn't look right I can spend another 20 redesigning it). So instead I find a really good skin texture and mess with the dials to create a unique face, pose and pleasing (to me) bodyshape. That allows me to focus on the one area where I have the ability to freely express myself, namely the environment. Messing with magnets and scaling to get people's clothing to fit is a necessary evil and in a perfect world wouldn't be necessary at all. Hopefully that's the direction future editions of Poser will be taking (The Victoria 2 morphing clothing is a Godsend). I've seen beautiful pieces airbrushed on motorcycle gastanks but to require an artist to manufacture the motorcycle first would be a pain in the ass. Very few pieces of art are critiqued based on what clothes the models are wearing or not wearing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. LOL Oh well I'm rambling. I love the nudes with the cool lighting and environments.many are really inspiring. Keep posting them. Mark

No matter how much you like doughnuts, if you eat nothing but doughnuts for breakfast, lunch, supper, and snacks in between, day after day, week after week, you're going to get pretty sick of them after awhile. Yes, there are some damn nice nudes in the gallery, but how good can even the greatest doughnut you've ever had really taste if that's all you've eaten for six weeks? It's not about nudity, at least for some of us. If 99.9% of the pics in the gallery were, say, alien creatures, we'd be reading rants about "Why the hell doesn't anyone do anything but aliens!". Yes, you can always just avoid the Poser gallery, as I usually do, but that's an awful shame for the few people who DO actually post something else. And it's also a shame for the people who do really spectacular nudes. But I don't foresee that changing any time soon. So either skim through the nudes until you finally find something else worth looking at, visit the other galleries (which aren't so one-track-minded), or, if you really want to make a difference, POST something else, fight the current, be a part of the solution. Not that we can't rant once in a while, but it's all been said a hundred times and nothing changes, so why bother? But still, yes, you are right, the Poser gallery is horribly monotonous, and saying so doesn't mean you're a prude or anything, just that you'd rather have a more balanced diet. But the Poser gallery is just a doughnut factory, I'm afraid, so head over to the Carrara gallery and have a pizza and some beer, then maybe stop over to the Amapi gallery for a burger and fries, then... And this, of course, accounts for Legume's popularity, by the way. That man's gallery is a buffet! Unfortunately, his cooking tends to cause a lot of indigestion...;)

It's been this way since the beginning. Try sorting the gallery by reverse order of what's new... You'll see the same stuff only with cheaper quality models and less powerful rendering engines. Go to a museum. It will be full of T&A and nude women. This is called life, it's the way art has always been.

Truth has no value without backing by unfounded belief.
Renderosity Gallery

I think we have Frank Frazetta and Boris Valejo (excuse me if I totaly mangled their names) to thank for the nude chicks in impractical armor with swords and little else. To be honest, these 2 artists are so popular and famous and their artwork inspired a lot of people to do the same kind of thing. Thanks to Poser and some skilled modelers, many folks without artistic skills now have the ability to create their barbarian babes. I got into poser because I wanted to be able to make alien fiends versus damsels in distress images and I couldn't for the life of me draw worth a crap by hand, so Poser is my tool, and those are the types of images I LIKE TO MAKE. I guess that's what it all boils down to, you see so many of those naked chicks with swords images, it's because that's the type of image those people like to make. Plain and simple. They aren't necessarily making the pictures for the benefit you the viewers, they are making them for themselves and are just sharing. my 2 cents. Davo

"Oothers?" Did I just make up a word?

"They aren't necessarily making the pictures for the benefit you the viewers, they are making them for themselves and are just sharing." Bravo. That pretty much covers it for me. How come other people are always better at saying what Imean than I am?

Pats Geep on head*"Good Geep,Good Geep"** Gags on Asia commentSick of Asia, she not so great( ya, I know 'Blasphemy!!') sorry,...she ugly. And I'm bitter that I wasted my money on her** I have 11 images in my gallery, none of which are nude, most of which NEVER get comments. And I uploaded my 4th marketplace 'nude' texture 2 days ago, will be out soon. 'Ashcroft IS a twit Bladewolf: 'its the SAME IDEA with no twist, no originality, NOTHING. That's what gets me. ' Same thing to you perhaps, but maybe that person just spent 4 hours trying to get that image to work out right, and they were proud of it ,even if you don't like it. I once saw an exhibit where someone took a crap in a mason jar, and filled it with urine, then called it art. And actually got great reviews by the local liberial media. Anxiously awaits being throgged for Asia comment. Sorry, but sometimes I just feel like beating a dead horse. They're easier to hit and make less noise.(That was a joke PETA!)

Nudity was interesting in Poser 2 and 3 several years back, when clothes were scarce, but now the novelty has worn off, except for people who just bought Poser 4 and never had fun with nude women before. So you can expect nude women with swords as long as there are new Poser customers.

;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Boy, this thread is so fast... ... that it's hard to keep up. Thanks Electric ............ I needed that! ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

(VS) "...Kupa, who was the original model for Mike..." OT, but thought it was an exec. at DAZ or Zygote -- no?

"Sorry, but sometimes I just feel like beating a dead horse. They're easier to hit and make less noise.(That was a joke PETA!)" That all depends on how hard ya hit 'em, don't it? ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

What davo said. Thus ends my long commentary on this constant and never ending debate. ;o)

Go to a museum. It will be full of T&A and nude women. This is called life, it's the way art has always been Art's one thing. A woman spread-eagle with her crotch in yer face ain't art, sorry. That's some schmuck whacking off over the hot babe pic he just made. We use this term "artist" as though everyone who picks up a mouse is an artist, and that just ain't so, folks. Sorry. Fully a third of the images in the Poser gallery are interesting sketches and first-drafts, but they ain't art. Art's more than just an interesting arrangement of broadswords and boobs; it has to communicate something. Otherwise, it's just the "artist" sitting in a corner whacking away and expecting everyone to notice. Yeah, that's harsh, but so is life. Right around the corner from me are no less than four art galleries, and I get to see what passes for "art" on a regular basis. Know what? It might look nice over the sofa, but it ain't art. And most of the stuff we have here? It might look nice when it's 3AM and you didn't score with the chicks in the bar, but it ain't art.

That, also, was a joke PETA! ;=] Gettin' tired of typing, gotta go do some useful work. Interesting thread, though. See ya later gang. cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

OT, but thought it was an exec. at DAZ or Zygote -- no? Someone posted Steve's wedding picture in here. It was Michael, all the way down to the wedge cut.

I am not a fan of Asia either. SteffyZ's new work looks very interesting, but Asia and Yuma and the like just don't interest me. That and I am tired of looking at her. =D We can get thrashed together, Aardvark. =) I have three nudes in my gallery. One has 765 viewings and 16 comments and another has 675 viewings and 14 comments. Those are my two top viewed pieces. The pieces I am most proud of tend to get a lot of comments but very few viewings. Shrug. I don't care. I make art for myself. If someone thinks I am not original, I don't care. I don't find "studies" to be very interesting, personally, although there are a couple in my gallery. I get some great support from people in my gallery and have found a lot of new artists whose work I like by clicking on their names. So if you want more "originality" support the artists who do the work you like.

So if you want more "originality" support the artists who do the work you like. Amen. The good lady says it all.

"No matter how much you like doughnuts, if you eat nothing but doughnuts for breakfast, lunch, supper, and snacks in between, day after day, week after week, you're going to get pretty sick of them after awhile. " LOL at x2000 Last Decmeber I did an image of a nude guy on a Xmas box with a little santa hat. (warning crass comments to follow) I was very displeased with his lower area, it looked odd.... Finally I realized that it was his pubic hair. It wasn't right. So I blew the area up and set to work fixing the pubic hair. (My poor son - he's used to seeing a nude woman on my desk - but he about died when he turned towards the monitor and saw ~that~ all blown up). Anyhow I finally got the hair the way I wanted it - but my poor husband didn't get lucky - I was tired of looking at it EG

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

This is from a project I have been working on for a LONG time (several months). I only put an hour or so a week into it because I don't have much time, but this is Vicki. =)

Now are we talking about naked, naked, or scantily clothed babes with swords? I'm seeing in this thread that they seem to be kinda thrown in together. hehehe... I don't do nudes...I do however sometimes have scantily clothed females or males with swords wearing impractical aromor in my pictures. As Davo suggested some of this is influenced by Vallejo,Frazetta and many more well known artists. My images don't get a lot of hits or comments, I don't have nudes, or maybe my art just plain stinks :) Who knows...BUT I agree that the nudes definately get more hits, I have no idea why, because I don't look at them. I USED to look at them until I got so tired of wondering why no one put clothes on some of them (where nudity is appropriate for the artwork clothing isn't necessary) and I figured that part of it could be laziness. Either they don't want to spend the time looking for something that fits the scene they are working on, or they don't want to spend the time doing work arounds for clothing that doesn't sit well (the gotta hurry up and upload this to the gallery so I can show it syndrome instead of actually doing more work on the piece). Or maybe they just want to do nudes. Or maybe they don't have the money to buy the clothing and can't model or draw it on.... But, I have to agree, nude Vicki, Posette or whomever just standing, holding a sword...well, just doesn't do it for me, so I just pass them by. Now try to tell a story and that might interest me. BUT if that is what the artist wants to do, then who are we to say "stop it and don't do it anymore, do your artwork the way I want to see you do it." We don't have that right. Just don't look at it. Work on your own artwork and make it better...that's what I try to do everyday. Get better. And to remind myself that I do my artwork for me and not anyone else...as Davo said, just sharing is all. There are sooooo many other good artists, doing some really different things in the galleries, that it's unreal, but we hardly hear about them...not as much as we do the others and that has always perplexed me. I avoid the galleries of the ones that are better known here anymore, they already have a gazillion hits, and just as many comments and a lot of it is repetitive. Do I think that EVERYTHING in the galleries looks the same? No, that would be a very broad statement and pretty insulting to most of the artists that do post here, including myself. I don't think that my stuff looks like everyone else's...nor do I copy or take my ideas from those artists that are deemed in high esteem here. I just do what I do when the muse strikes me. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox here, I'm sure I've said more then enough......

If it helps any, I try to avoid the basic nude chick with a sword.... in fact, I don't think I have a single one. I've got some blatant pinups before, but thats because well... from time to time they're fun to do, but I much prefer doing other sort of work. I've even done a closeup of Vicki's face that doesn't look like Vicki (HEY GEEP! Go check out my gallery and look for my 'portrait of an elven woman') The difference between hits when I do a pin-up versus anything else is a bit discouraging, but I for one am not going to stop doing more original things.

kieraw, That look real good, but, um, sorry ... I still see the V eyes. ;=| dg ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Probably just reiterating what's already been said, but the problem with this type of argument is that it lumps people into one category. I've had poser for a while but am really just getting into it. I've yet to do a Vicki in a temple but I'm sure I'll probably render one too. I just did my first nude.

In another month, there will be a fresh crop of people, new to poser who will be posting their first nudes. All of these complaints are sure to keep people from expressing themselves if they are afraid of being criticized for simply being at the level they are at.
You can offer constructive criticism of someone's use of the programs (technical use, that is), but ones visions are an extention of themselves and shouldn't be criticized.

...... Kendra

" ... ones visions are an extention of themselves and shouldn't be criticized." An excellent point Kendra ... and I peeked at your "first nude." Very nicely done. cheers, dr geep ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I do have to say Thank you for not thinking my nudes were tacky - BUT! At one time they were :-) I have since learned to work on my lighting and posing, but then again the first real image Iever did had a totally naked frog in it.... :-)

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Horrors! Don't we have ANY standards around here? ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Its not like they ever do nudes of us men. Why do we even pay them service with a picture. I say we stop doing pics of them altogther. They certainly don't give a rat's ass about us men enough to do a pic about us. Give them what they want. Leave them alone. Don't do pics about women. They certainly won't do any about you.

VirtualSite, Michael is based upon a model of 1/2 of Dan Farr's head, which was then flipped for perfect symmetry. I have met Dan (last year's Game Developer's Conference), and immediately knew that I'd seen him somewhere before. The body was taken from someone else (good thing, because no man would like to admit to having breasts like that, unless he was incredibly fat). As to this thread, I don't go into the galleries at all, unless someone I know sends me an invitation to look at a piece. To seriously look at every image posted would be a full-time job. Carolly

Hey Mason, I do pics of nude men... go on check out my gallery :~)

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Hellooooo..... Late to the thread as usual....but I can tell the original poster EXACTLY why there are a lotta Vicki posts. Speaking as a newbie learner...it's because we spent the $70 bucks for the Victoria model because it seemed like that's what we had to do, and now, by God, we wanna get some use outta her..:) For most of us who just do this for fun or as a hobby, it's the 1st really expensive thing we bought to go with our expensive software, and it seems to be as good a place as any to practice and develop our skills(we aren't ALL "artists"..just wannabe), because there's lots to compare. And besides...I haven't learned armidillos yet..:) Beav

The nude has always been the most depicted subject in art, from the cave paintings of 30,000 BC through Classical Greek and Roman periods all the way to the Rennaisance and from there to modern times. Frazetta, Vallejo, Royo, Sorayama and others are only resposible for its depiction in their genre. Like it or not mankind has had a facination with nudes since a charred stick was first scraped along a cave wall. The history of Art and Mankind may well be the history of testosterone. ;0)

Oh, dear, i got into this one late. :^) Popcorn, anyone? David Cherry, a very fine illustrator, once told me that programs like Photoshop and Painter made bad (as well as good) art very, very easy. Hee hee hee i'm sorry folks are bored right now with the Poser gallery--well, me too, actually, just in terms of novelty. We're enough of a group consciousness that sometimes we get stuck in a rut as a group. So what? It's a rut. We'll move on, eventually. Contests are nice for getting people interested in something different in the way of content & composition. Perhaps an inspiring contest will come along, like VirtualSite's freebie contest recently (what a hoot!) Maybe we just need some suggestions of new things to try, eh? How about these: 1. weird uses for the Millennium Teeth (those danged things have captured my imagination today!) 2. household implements of doom 3. flying fortresses, castles, or other architecture and their inhabitants 4. where did the Elder Gods go on vacation? And be glad that the Furries haven't taken over Poser--you think the nekkid Vickis are relenless? You ain't seen NUTHIN' yet! --Nan ((running & ducking))

"The history of Art and Mankind may well be the history of testosterone. ;0) " Storm, That's a very scary thought......interesting but scary :0

When you start defining what is and isn't art, you eventually play the Ashcroft's of the world's game. First, deny that it has any "artistic merit" and then you can ban it. I know that's not what you intend but it's a slippery slope. How can anyone's definition of art be anything but subjective? Some guy in London does a dead cow in a vat of preservative. He calls it art, makes more money than most of us and wins a prize. Is it art? Does it matter?

As for the gallery, there is some validity to most of the comments here, testosterone, the innate beauty of the human body, Poser's limitations etc. I think many people, myself included, don't think visually. It is difficult to "see" an image or create that concept in the mind before even beginning to put paint to canvas or mouse to pad. So, people do what they have seen and admired or been stimulated by. Look around, magazines, MTV, comics... Whether it's Xena Warrior Princess or an ad for just about anything. Provacative female images are everywhere.

You can also blame the sorry state of art education in this country. How many people today have had any serious exposure to Vermeer or Picasso? How many have even set foot in a gallery? Pop culture rules and that means what sells. Sex sells.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I tried very hard to get rid of the Vicki eyes in my characters. I think I did pretty well.

Yeah I'm sure they are 400 years old.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/pages/faq/answers/michael/making.html

Found the "How Michael was created" page at DAZ. It was indeed Farr's face that was used as the plaster mold. There's a side-by-side photo. Thanks for that info hauksdottir.

A nude of mine http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=57053&Start=1&Sectionid=0&Form.Search=Lunaseas (although probably not what most viewers anticipated) 366 views.....an elf that I worked long and hard on to paint the clothes on 270 views http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=104000&Start=1&Sectionid=0&Form.Search=Lunaseas
The short version, sex sells...always has, always will. BTW the elf texture is Asia...she can be quiet lovely with a little worked to change the skin tone and take care of the dry lips.:)

Thanks dr geep. :-)

...... Kendra

;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I made a suggestion just today to separate the galleries, so all the vicky boobs could be in one place, it does get very tiresome after a while and I know many people don't show up here anymore, because they are plain out bored.

Thanks for the info on Mike -- I stand corrected. So is Steve Mike's evil twin then or something? =)

The history of Art and Mankind may well be the history of testosterone There's a classic New Yorker cartoon of a bunch of cave women working on a picture of a buffalo hunt. One comments: "Has anyone ever noticed how none of the world's greatest artists are men?"

dirk, that is a fantastic idea.

You know, after reading all these posts and trying very hard to keep an open mind to everyones concerns, it would be interesting to know the age group of most people at Rosity. From the content of these posts, it has to be a very younger generation because adults and even mature adults don't act like this. I used to feel there are too many Vicky T&A pics here, posting a few comments about that in other threads, and after spending a little time (it really didn't take long) realizing that anything I said was really a waste of time, this whole thing has gotten to be a joke and it's more humerous now and adds a laugh to my day when I read these.

Dirks idea is a good one but as I told him, he needs to tell people about it, maybe start a new messages about it and maybe even post the reply he got from Rosity. I told him he needs to suggest people email Rosity because unless they know there is an interest from people about a separate gallery for Mike or what ever he suggested, Rosity wouldn't even know how many people would be in favor of that.

"From the content of these posts, it has to be a very younger generation because adults and even mature adults don't act like this." Don't act like what? Express their opinions? That's all I see happening here IMHO.

There is a forum for ideas for the community. It's called "Community Ideas" dirk you could post it there. I can tell you though as many others can also, that the idea has been brought up numerous times, I believe the latest request was for a "pinup" gallery of sorts. But it never hurts to try if that is what you would like to suggest :) At least once posted in the forum you can try to generate interest and have a thread to point them to so they can voice their opinions on the matter. :)

(phew) I thought I'd catch up on a thread or two B4 bed and here I am half way into the night!...what a beast of a thread blade! (looks down at empty can that once contained so many worms) "deceased equines" (LMAO) how true..it's never going to change.. everyone's different and will always interpret things in a different way, what one person thinks is beautiful another person challenges that it's ugly...it's what make art interesting! ...beware of sweeping generalisations, I don't mind the fantasy-style nudes.. they're pretty harmless and we're not forced to look at them (we are our own censors after-all) ..but I hate the idea of people avoiding the poser gallery full stop because they think all the art's the same..(that's bordering on narrow-mindedness) I myself have not had poser long, but have not felt the urge to post a "first nude" either.. my main reason for wanting poser was to make animations (simulations) of people climbing up rock faces..studies of the figure in movement..reproducing it artificially is proving quite a challenge naked climbing is not recommended (I have enough problems with rock-rash on my knees!)..

hehe and I all I asked for were some opinions. Just a general feel of what people thought. Though some did throw a few blows, albeit small ones, all I asked for were some opinions. I myself will only do a nude if I can make it "tasteful" other than that, forget it. I have a love for the human body in its nakedness, but I don't over do it or exploit it as some in these galleries do. To me, that is not art, that is smut. If ya want smut, I have a few choice magazines you can check out :P

There's nothing wrong with nudity, if there's a logical reason for its presence in an image. I think everyone here has missed BladeWolf's original point. It think he was merely referring to the volume of such images in the galleries and the similarity in them. No originality. Basically, I think he was saying, "If you've seen one, you've seen them all." I don't think it was a criticism of the nudity itself. Just the plethora of the same basic image popping up over and over by different artists. The only images in the galleries that I've ever commented on are the ones that are unique and have some story or message in them. Other than portraits, I think an image should say something, not just a person standing there in a pose, but that's just my opinion. Melanie

Yes, Dan Farr is the model for Michael's head. And, his wife is the head model for vicki. Thanks, Nance. The bodies were done with commissioned models. "Its not like they ever do nudes of us men." I do...nudes of men. Of course, they don't get the hits the ladies do. I think...this thread may be about "sameness". I am sick to death of "sameness". Perhaps, others are, as well. That might partially explain the amazing popularity of Legume. IMnotsoHO...When I view sameness...wall-eyed vickis wearing/standing on the latest market fad...one after another...I say to self..."Self, these are the works of consumers, not, creators." There is a vast difference between one who can afford to buy all the latest "kits" to produce a "kit" work of art, and, one who simply uses his/her brain...and, whatever they may have on hand to create a new vision. and, yeah...sorry, legume...in a way, your stuff is "kit" art, too. Errr...how about forkin' over that armadillo, now? He is definitely NOT a kit model. :*) Pop...Pop....Poppi!!!

we could call it(the sameness) Poser Paint by Numbers...could be really cool like velvet Elvis posters, 'n all.

That might partially explain the amazing popularity of Legume Makes more sense than the "conspiracy" theory that was bandied about by the people who were so upset by the MPP. =)

dirk that idea has been thrown around for as long as I've been here (over a year now) why create an entirely new gallery just for nudes when all you have to do is turn the nudity off in your options? Sure some people forget to tick the nudity box, but life is too short to get that irate over it. Besides even in a gallery for no nudes - someone will post one wearing see through clothing. Hey if it's legal to wear see through in public in some states then surely vicky will as well...

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

OK, first off, I waited till there were 89 messages before I even got involved in this thread. My first reaction when I saw it was the knowledge that this same subject is being covered in 1-3 other threads which are running right now. The threads probably have a different subject name, but the essence is all the same. Why do we have so many nudes? What is art? Etc etc. When I started out I did many nudes because I either had no clothes to put on my women, or I didn't know how to keep their clothes on them. I took many large pose libraries and set out to render all the poses. Some poses went just fine, while other poses caused the women to burst out of their clothing no matter what I did. So what the heck? I can't keep them in their clothes, and I like nudes anyway. So I do another nude. Gosh, look at the hits a nude gets vs a tasteful render with the characters dressed. I've seen maybe 200 more hits for my nudes than some other images. Hey so sometimes even I look at the numbers. There has been much talk about the "sameness" of the gallery. You hear comments like "Gee, not another naked vicky in the temple picture." At least some of us happen to go through waves or trends. Go to the Marketplace. Do many people buy the same props, scenes, characters, outfits, textures? If you have the same ingredients, your art tends to look the same as someone else's. Who knows if the temple will be popular next month. Maybe they'll be in a local tavern, hotel, motel?! I used to get excited about spending some time in the Gallery. I'd be sure to leave compliments to all the artists, especially newbies. Now I can barely stand to go there. I've sunken pretty much into a creative rut myself. I wasn't doing much of interest till I set about illustrating my own poems. Believe me, I'm not being critical here. Just how many variations of themes, or new ideas can we come up with? I seem to remember a song or poem that goes something like this: Every song that can be written has been sung. Every story that can be told has been written. *** I'm sure I totally fractured that "saying," wherever it came from. Hopefully you get the idea. So we do our best with what we have, and at least try to put some of ourselves into our art. Ron

.ecin era seduN .retteb tib a si noitisopmoC .tseb eht si yrots a sllet taht erutcip A just a thought..... TMG

During my first year of college, I took this art class, I believe it was "figure drawing". We had live nude female models in this class (I feel sorry for these folks, posing for a hour). I think I was branded for life. So if I am for T&A, blame it on my college art professor. Then I saw Renderosity's Art Gallery and I thought maybe all these artists took the same class I did. Hehehe just my $0.02 JV

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Software: Daz Studio 4.15,  Photoshop CC, Zbrush 2022, Blender 3.3, Silo 2.3, Filter Forge 4. Marvelous Designer 7

Hardware: self built Intel Core i7 8086K, 64GB RAM,  RTX 3090 .

"If you spend too much time arguing about software, you're spending too little time creating art!" ~ SomeSmartAss

"A critic is a legless man who teaches running." ~ Channing Pollock

My Gallery  My Other Gallery 

Nice JVRender. ;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I dunno--I make pictures of nekkid girls 'cause nekkid girls are pretty.

You need to stay on your perpective! You'll hold your tongue this way. ScottA's point compounded by how didfficult those Iris textures are to render sharp causes people to go @*#&! "They aren't necessarily making the pictures for the benefit of you the viewers, they are making them for themselves and are just sharing." Bravo. That pretty much covers it for me. How come other people are always better at saying what Imean than I am?" is creative. = )

first off naked vicky pics get more hits because all the youngsters out there most likely cannot get into adult sites, so they come here where they can see all the boobs and butts they want for free...this is not just a trend, click back to past gallery pages, ths has been going on for a long time Also I am the one that started the last thread on this very same topic and in about another week or 2, somebody will start another one... and the reason is simple you look forward to coming to the gallery and seeing some great images and what you get is a "Virtual Playboy". Many many people have done stunning images with Vicky, and they are to be congratulated. For those of us that are tired of the T&A we should simply be able to choose another section of the gallery....... I'm not trying to stir things up, I just believe if the galleries were in sections(i.e. Vicky, Mike, Misc.) anyone could then choose what they wanted to see

Does the Nudity filter still exist? Are users able to set things up so they don't see nudes? I asked that question a few months ago, and never got an answer. I guess the nudes issue is a subject of intense debate.

Poppi, I remember a while back Dan said in a thread here that his wife is not Vicki. I think it was around Christmas when he mentioned that with a photo of his family. Melanie

How about a Galery for Newbie's and one for Advanced like we have in the Rhino contests? Just a thought.... TMG

...Virtual..."National Geographic!" Ya! Huh!.. Right There baby(BAM!) A Nudity filter, just what the doctor ordered... = )

Just wanted to pop in here again and say how pleased I am with how well you all are discussing this subject. This subject has come up many times in the past and it has spawned some really ugly nasty name calling. 104 messages, and not a personal attack in the bunch. I hope this is a trend I'm seeing. Thanks for making my job easier, ScottA

Scott, you inconsiderate slut. You teeming mass of ungrateful scum. You complete and utter moron. There. Now I feel so much better.... =)

this is not just a trend, click back to past gallery pages, ths has been going on for a long time Want to see something truly frightening? Go look at the most viewed image in the Poser gallery.

Nude figures have been, are, and always will be a staple of the art world. The human body is a beautiful thing...nothing wrong with celebrating it. Not the kind of art you enjoy? Want to see something different? So post it already! Let us see what YOU have in YOUR imagination. We'd really like to see it you know, its one of the things I like about this site. Also be sure you make comments on the artwork you like to encourage them to continue. Think about it, if you get 10 views with 10 comments saying they really enjoyed it for whatever reason they enjoyed it, or 1000 views and no comments at all, which tells you something about your art and which tells you your thumbnail was interesting?

"They aren't necessarily making the pictures for the benefit you the viewers, they are making them for themselves and are just sharing."

BRAVO DAVO!

Most viewed does not necessarily mean best or even most liked. Some things people will view just because they have to see if it's as bad as they thought it was from the thumbnail. Sometimes I will view those outlandish "huge boobie" pics because I have to see just how outlandish they really are. BTW, back to the original topic. {buying a texture, slapping it on vicky, putting a sword in her hand and giving her a lewd look and pose} I think the same holds true here for every kind of picture, whatever the subject. I've seen Bryce landscapes, Bryce lakes and Bryce skies (all generated with presets) so many times I could cry. Now it doesn't take much to generate a halfway decent scene with Bryce, but talk about BORING! But then, I don't really like landscapes in any medium, even really well done landscapes. I don't particularly like still lifes either. Never have. People interest me much more. Nude or otherwise. And animals, too. And please don't lump Renderotica's art automatically into the "buying a texture, slapping it on vicky, putting a sword in her hand and giving her a lewd look and pose" category. Do we have that there? Of course. We have newbies and people who are more concerned with what positions they can get Vicki into than with making art. But we also have some EXCELLENT artists there whose subject matter just happens to be erotica.

At the risk of getting "flamed" (or starting an ever bigger debate), I'm going to jump in here- Why do we so many nudes? Why do we see so much of the same stuff? Why do so many people use the "add-on-of-the-day"- the Xurge body armor, or fairies, or the latest figure in their image? (Yes, I know these are excellent products, but does "everybody and his brother" really need to post their picture of these things?) Before long, the gallery becomes one, big advertisement for these products! The simple anser: it's "easy" and it takes almost no thought or imagination. Slap a figure into a scene, slap on the "body armor", apply a pre-made pose, add pre-made lights, render the scene, and you have "art" ready to be added to the gallery for all the world to compliment you on. Where's the "artistry"? Where's the "craftsmanship"? A while back, I was thinking about posting a message along these lines, but I was afraid I might "offend" someone. With Poser, we have the ability to create ANY kind of artwork with people. We can make historical pictures from prehistoric days (and use the Poser dinosaurs) to images of today to images of the future. We can make political cartoons, ilustrations, or portraits. We can make copies of famous cartoons (such as The Far Side), or superheroes, or even our own comics. Yet, what do we do with this tool that we have? We make nude pictures of Vicky. The point is this: USE YOUR IMAGINATION. Sorry if I have to "yell" it, but maybe it will get the point across. Show some creativity! Make your art say something! A picture of "Mike in a fighting pose" (Mike posed in front of a white background) is not using your imagination... in fact, it's saying, "Look how lazy I am- I can pose Mike in a pre-made pose, but I couldn't even think up a clever title." Your art should make people think about what you've made. Make people laugh or cry or yell at you. Provoke them. Make them think about things. Make your own comments on the world. (Then again, I could just be "preaching to the choir" here in the forum. And, yes, I recommend that people "do I as do"- go check out my own gallery and see the variety of my images. You'll notice that I have no full-nude images and that my topics range from humor to political to super-heroes.) --John

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

John, the points are all valid. However... (yeah, you knew that was coming, didn't you...) Let's face it: this is a tough program for the newbie. It's not like Bryce, where you can go a long way on a little information. Poser requires a more in-depth awareness of how to shape the human body to convey something -- like, look at your hands. Fifteen pieces each, and if you want to make your hands really suggestive, you have to work with all fifteen of those pieces. For some people, yeah, no big deal. But Poser 4 was my return to this program after giving up on Poser 1, and I was completely freaked for months. And I can still remember the thrill of putting my first image up in the gallery, even though now I look at it (and don't try; it's gone from the gallery here) and laugh at how naive it was. So yeah, there's a lot of flavour of the month in there, but let's be kind to the newbies on that issue. If you want to take a shot at someone, look at the folks who have hundreds of entries in their galleries, representing a span of a couple of years, and not one whit of difference from the first image to the most recent. No development. No stylistic change. They might as well be cranking out oil paintings like the guy on PBS with the big hair.

Still both of you have damned good points. John is right in many a sense, as are you Virtual. But heres the thing. This site houses tutorial after tutorial, and long with links to the sites with more tutorials, to many to count. n00bz need to learn about these things, and that will help them become better artists. I used to be nothing more than pen&pencil artist, never coloring my images unless I did some water color(Which I still do on occaisions), and when I got my first copy of photoshop, I went bonkers on books. My poor mothers bank account about sank :) It would seem to me that the people making all of these tacky nudes are nothing more than teenagers, raging with hormones... maybe we need to put some age identification stuff on here. That way, the young ones are kept from viewing it and also, it keeps all of the nudes from being the most popular and balances out the load, so to speak. just some thoughts

"This site houses tutorial after tutorial, and long with links to the sites with more tutorials, to many to count. n00bz need to learn about these things, and that will help them become better artists."

So newbies should wait on posting anything until they've "learned these things"? Sorry, I dissagree. I enjoy going through someone's gallery and seeing the difference in their images from the first posted to the latest.

But then I wouldn't think of criticizing someone's vision in the first place. If I don't want to view a nude done for the sake of nudity only, I simply don't view it. If I do and don't care for it, I just don't comment. But if they want to do a nude just for the sake of nudity, that's certainly their right and why not?
If a temple image with Vicky is inspiring to someone it's their right to create and showcase. New Poser users are going to use recognizable poses until they get posing down better.

Maybe I'm just too "new" to this community to really understand this complaint but to me it's like walking into someone's showing at a gallery and complaining they have too many landscapes.

...... Kendra

Well, Kendra, that's more or less it, except that this is one whopping big gallery with way too many "landscapes". After you've been here for a while and cruised through the galleries with any regularity, the monotony of it will become understandable. What does surprise me is why so few of these folks use the WIP or beginner's galleries. That's what they're there for, so that WIPs can be studied for critique. But because those galleries aren't as wildly popular as the all-purpose Poser gallery, I guess no one wants to be in there. I guess my thinking is that it's like your six year old coming home from school with a picture of a pony and a tree and a bird and a flower. You can't see them, no matter which way you turn the page, but you still post it on the refirgerator with all the paternal pride you can muster so they'll be encouraged to do more.

"This site houses tutorial after tutorial..." Actually, I've found a great many of the tutorials (not just poser...other apps too) are dead links :( Click 5 404 links in a row, you don't feel very motivated to keep trying them. I wish Renderosity would spend some time cleaning those out so the lists would be more usable.

If I could do anything in the world for a living and earn money enough to survive on, I'd be a painter. Where my visual imagination could manifest itself on canvas. Where there would be no limits other than the colors from which to choose. Alas, I cannot paint so much as the wall of a house without leaving streaks. That is an excerpt from my website. I posted it here because of something said much earlier in this "tiny" thread, by geep, something to the effect of Poser giving the ability to non-artists to create (question mark) artwork. First of all, I know geep to be an intelligent and nice guy, so dont take this wrong. But his comment cut just a little bit. I realized he was talking exactly about me. You see, Ive wanted to draw, paint, sketch, ANYTHING, but I cant. When I got in the army, I took up photography to try and make images I couldnt draw. ESPECIALLY if and when I could EVER get a female subject to pose for me as I consider, have considered, and will always consider the female form to be beautiful (and, yes, sexy). I look and analyze women I see on the streets. I look at erotic pictures of women. I ogle them on TV, the movies. I look at Rolling Stone covers and sometimes even the occasional Playboy. I have never gotten tired of dreaming about painting or photographing some of the ones I see. I guess I never will. Sigh. But alas, I dont have the money or talent to pay for models (and hopes of selling art). I certainly dont think my wife would like it very much. Then I found Poser, quite by accident. And I thought, Here is a way to try (once again) to make some artwork involving the female figure. I thought, I can do this! I dont have to pay for a model, barring the initial outlay for software, and its not a real woman so my wife wont get jealous. And with the Vicki model and right textures, nearly lifelike. So, here I am masquerading as an artist. I realize making a render and posting it doesnt automatically grant me the title of artist. I certainly will never compare to the many, many wonderful works I see. But before we just lump all the people who work on a scene and post it on a gallery into the same category, testosterone-crazed teenagers, lets not forget that the conventional artist, canvas and brush people, may very well harbor the same thoughts about photographersthat they really arent artists, theyre merely cheating and capturing an image, not creating it. Yet, photography has become a widely accepted art form. I realize this is a tad off-subject and will perhaps be chided by the moderatorsso, perhaps Ill still have enough energy to write another comment more appropriate to the subject. Tks for reading (if you did, that is....grin)

Do you think some of our art is influenced by the latest and greatest products in the Marketplace, and even in Free Stuff? I like to get my hands on the hot new stuff. I like to play with it and make pictures. Hey, how many of us bought Michael 2 and immediately started featuring him in some renders? I sure as heck want to use something I'd wanted for awhile, and finally got. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a momentary flash of insight I had. I get them every once and awhile. Ron

More on the subject, thoughand this goes more in line with answering BladeWolfs original remark and the many exchanges afterwards. A good friend once told me (over and over) during the so-called hippy days that Everybodys gotta be somewhere and just because where they are isnt where I want to be I shouldnt find fault. Ive tried to live by that but still find myself finding fault with complete strangers who wear their baseball caps backwards or mount a spoiler/wing 4 feet high on the rear of their Honda Civic. I guess they think it looks good and dont care what others think. Yes, there is a lot of nudity in the Poser section. Some of it quite redundant, but it doesnt really bother me. I look, and despite the, perhaps, triteness of the artistic endeavor, I still find something to admire. Even if it is just another person trying a pinup pose, I sometimes marvel at how well the lighting was done or wonder how they did the pose so well. Its (currently) a (pretty) free and open forum. Freedom of speech is something tested over and over in this country. Im glad we still have it. So what if the majority of the work is nude (and perhaps redundant)? Id just say, Get over it. IF the majority of the people are sex-crazed teenagers, theyll either get tired of it or move on to what some would declare more artistic work. If the majority is deemed artless redundant pics, then I just guess thats the way the world (or at least the Poser section) isgrin. And just as I dont like organizations of overweight women trying to make me feel like I am a bigot for not preferring overweight women as much as I do slender women, I dont really care for a minority trying to complain and change what the majority currently seems to like and enjoy. As others have said, turn off the nudity switch. Certainly, making a separate room for clothed and unclothed Poser renders would seem to be a useless idea. IF the majority of viewed renders were nude, that very same audience would just frequent the unclothed gallery more often and the artists in the clothed section would realized an even smaller audience. As it currently is, I prefer looking at nudes more than other works. I suspect there are plenty of people like me as the viewings for nude images most often doubles or triples that of conventional works. But when I am scrolling through the gallery now, sometimes a conventional thumbnail grabs my attention and I take a look. As a side note, and because I take a curious interest in this (I have asked many people), I was surprised by the number of nude work done by females. And, more often than not, of a female subject. I was also surprised by the ages of people I met in here, thinking that many were in their 20s and artistic computer nerds (so to speakgrin). But, another surprise as it seems the average age must run much higher. (I add to that pool, BTW). So, Im not so sure how fair it is to classify these people with a phrase such as, teenage male testosterone. Anyway, had to say somethingdidnt want to be left out of the worlds longest threadgrin.

Scott, you hankering bit of week old goat cheese. Scott, you incomprehensible waste of electronic space. Scott, you... you... you Democrat! Just making sure the thread gets in its quota of unnecessary slams against someone... =)

"That is an excerpt from my website. I posted it here because of something said much earlier in this "tiny" thread, by geep, something to the effect of Poser giving the ability to non-artists to create (question mark) artwork. First of all, I know geep to be an intelligent and nice guy, so dont take this wrong. But his comment cut just a little bit."

On the "is it art?" subject, why isn't it?

I've read the discussions but I still don't see it. To say (for instance) that Photography isn't a form of art does a disservice to someone like Ansel Adams. Anyone can take a picture but Ansel Adams' images are true art forms. I can pose, render, texture, etc and put out something I couldn't do in oils but someone else here could use the same images and create something truely remarkable.

So why are a few 3d software programs not considered a tool like the camera is? When is it art? What if I convert an image to a crosstitch pattern and spend days stitching it on linen, does it become art then? Don't tell me it's never art, you'll depress me. I have plans to spend a lot at Daz this week. ;-)

...... Kendra

" ... something to the effect of Poser giving the ability to non-artists to create (question mark) artwork. ... "

I sincerely apologize to you Chuck.
I was NOT talking to you, or about you.
I was speaking from my own somewhat frustrated position of being able to create (sortof) "art."
I am no artist, and could not draw a recognizable circle if my life depended on it.

Poser gave me the ability to "create" things (yeah, I'll admit it) ....... the nude female form. There, I've said it!
The most beautiful thing to behold in the Universe (IMVHO)!

Now I'm a Mod and I don't have time to even start Poser, let alone do anything "creative" with it.
[ok, all together now ............BOO HOO!]
(thanks, I needed that.)

---

"But his comment cut just a little bit. I realized he was talking exactly about me."

I was NOT talking about YOU, I WAS talking about ME!
[conceited little bugger, ain't I!]

And so, I apologize again, to you, and to anyone else that may have taken offense about what I said.

No worries though, I have given up my mouse for a keyboard.

cheers, (always)
dr geep
;=) <----------------------------- (sincerely)

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

someone should lock this thread I'm tired of reading it. ; )

;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I'm going to stop reading this thread. I want to draw more naked ladies. Now where did I put that temple?!