I'm very angry at the moment. I just received this email from Homestead where I have my sites. "It was brought to our attention that your Homestead Web site continues to engage in unauthorized activities as specified under our Member Agreement. Specifically: unauthorized use of copyrighted material currently for sale at www.renderosity.com marketplace. Your Homestead account has been terminated. I've spent a lot of money and time building my site to enable ordinary members to have free items but it seems the powers that be on this site do not like you giving away your work as it does not generate them a profit. so that's the end of my involvement in the Poser community.

Sounds like someone owes you an explanation

Unfortunately, mikes, no one is prepared to give me an explanation.

Homestead is where you have your web site? Sharen

It would seem that the comment "continues to..." implies they notified you previously.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Yes I had had one notification, LadySilverMage, I wrote back stating that there was no unauthorized copyrighted material on my site and that there never had been and there never would be. I never heard anything again till all my sites were deleted today. Yes, Sharon, Homestead is where I used to have my web sites.

Now what are you going to do? And can they just pull the plug without any proof? Sharen

There must be a way to resolve this, to loose you from the Poser community would be a real shame. Sharen

I wish there was a way to resolve this Sharon but when people whom I contact refuse to reply there is little I can do. The site I had had been going 3 years a huge amount of time went into it. I don't feel like starting all over again. Feeling very annoyed still. Off to the pub now

My apologies for the length of this but there is no way to be succinct when deling with copyright law :-) In the case of copyright infringement claims under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) you should have been provided with a copy of the Statement of copyright which should specify the alegedly infringing material and it's location. What you may not know (& something that Homestead conveniently leaves out of it's copyright policy statement :-) is that you have a right to counter claim if you feel you have been accused falsely. This will place the burden of proof on the person/persons making the charges against you. The procedure is as follows... You must fill out the following document & forward it to the designated copyright agent for homestead.com (see below) (A) A physical or electronic signature of the subscriber. [As an electronic signature, our agent accepts facsimile/fax and digitized image of signature attached to electronic mail.] (B) Identification of the material that has been removed or to which access has been disabled and the location at which the material appeared before it was removed or access to it was disabled. [This information will normally be included in the notice you receive from the DMCA Agent. You may want to expand on it or distinguish some materials from others. Please include a URL such as http://... or ftp://... identifying the material or representative material.] (C) A statement under penalty of perjury that the subscriber has a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of mistake or misidentification of the material to be removed or disabled. [If you have any permissions for subject materials, please identify them. If you believe materials to be quotable under Fair Use doctrine, please state your case with reference to the four principles of Fair Use.] (D) The subscriber's name, address, and telephone number, and a statement that the subscriber consents to the jurisdiction of Federal District Court for the judicial district in which the address is located, or if the subscriber's address is outside of the United States, for any judicial district in which the service provider may be found, and that the subscriber will accept service of process from the person who provided notification under subsection (c)(1)(C) or an agent thereof then you can email/fax/snail the completed document to... Designated Agent: Victoria Libin c/o Homestead Technologies Address of Agent: 3375 Edison Way Menlo Park, CA 94025 Telephone: (650) 549-3112 Fax: (650) 364-7329 E-mail for notice: copyright@homestead-inc.com Once the complaining party receives your counterclaim, the DMCA permits your service provider to restore materials or access in 10-14 business days--unless the complaining party serves notice that it intends to seek a court order to restrain infringement. If you have any questions feel free to contact me privately coolerBear@att.net ICQ# 1523909

i have provided the statement of 'alleged' copyright to the homestead abuse team almost 2 weeks ago. Bebop (or virchual as he is referred to now since his previous banning) has been hosting my copyrighted marketplace item on his homepage. he was warned in the forums to remove it. he was warned twice by Homestead to remove it. he chose to laugh it off and continue his illegal activities, and his site was terminated. now pardon me if i dont shed a fucking tear. -Gabriel

oh, and btw bebop -- since you have been banned from here several times, and you have just admitted that 'Bebop's World' at eaglesgift.homestead.com was YOUR page, im suprised that your new nick hasnt been banned again. i guess this shows the inability of the administration to enforce their own TOS. i have advised the Homestead abuse team to retain a copy of your 'ProLumaire' light set that you were hosting on your Homestead site and linking to in these forums, so that if the need arises they can compare the material therein to my ProLuma light set in the marketplace to prove your guilt. hosting copyrighted material is not only a violation of most web hosts TOS, but also of international law. Cheers, -Gabriel

Hmmm, well if what Blackhearted says is true I cant say Im sorry for Bebop/virchual. Seems very childish to me.

As a writer, I take copyright infringement very seriously. If someone is offering copyrighted material on their website without the creator's permission, as seems to be the case here, they are very lucky if all that happens is their website is removed, as the holder of the copyright is certainly entitled to damages for their loss of sales. I'm with Blackhearted on this one.

The Art of Sin

sinning every minute is an art form

I find it strange that the "eaglesgift" website that was shut down was owned by "bebop" I notified you that there was copyrighted material on the site, but you claimed it wasn't your site. Just that you were helping bebop, and refused to remove the item with copyright concerns. So, it leaves me wondering (again) if virchual really bebop?

 

he has just admitted it, its there in black & white, in his own words. all you need to do is scroll up, Jeny. if thats not enough proof to ban him again, i dont know what is. its apalling that a ban from renderosity only means that the member needs to make up a new nickname and hes back the next day. he can even repost his former images and relink to his former homepage and this arouses no suspicion.

Im afraid I have to also agree with Blackhearted on this one. If vitual /bebop was warned not only on this site, but by homestead as well, then I feel they made the right choice by removing the sites. If the questionable material had been removed until a suitable solution were found between Blackhearted and bebop then perhaps ths all could have been avoided. I hate to see anyone lose thier hard work,but copyright is copyright and if he had been warned several tiems..then he must have known about the files.

Monday, February 25, 2002 4:57 PM Hello, Thank you for bringing this situation to our attention. As a passive conduit, Homestead cannot monitor user websites, but we respond to breaches of our user agreement when we learn of such behavior. Therefore, prior to your complaint, we were unaware that this site was on our server. Given that the user appears to be breaching our user agreement, we have notified the creator of the Web site that he has until February 28, 2002 to remove the infringing materials from the offending pages in order to remain in accordance with the community standards at Homestead. If this requirement is not met within the allotted time, the Homestead account will be terminated. We very much appreciate your interest and commitment to our community. Regards, Homestead Abuse Team Homestead Technologies ----------------------------------------------------------- Monday, March 04, 2002 2:15 PM Hello again Gabriel, At your earliest convenience, please let us know if the infringements mentioned in your claim have been removed from the EaglesGift site. We thank you for your patience and look forward to your reply. Regards, Homestead Abuse Team Homestead Technologies ----------------------------------------------------------- Tuesday, March 05, 2002 2:09 PM Hello, Thank you for bringing this situation to our attention. As a passive conduit, Homestead cannot monitor user websites, but we respond to breaches of our user agreement when we learn of such behavior. Therefore, prior to your complaint, we were unaware that this site was on our server. Given that the user appears to be breaching our user agreement, we have deleted the user's account and removed the offensive site. We very much appreciate your interest and commitment to our community. Regards, Homestead Abuse Team Homestead Technologies

If I may... Something here doesn't make a whole lot of sense, on all counts. Why would virchual host something on a heavily-trafficked site that would be an obvious copyright infringement? Just asking, because it really doesn't make sense.

ask him yourself. ive given up trying to comprehend what drives bebop to do the things he does, they are not the actions of a sane person. youll have to speak to him through email or telepathy though, since hes finally been banned again.

Well if this is all true and I tend not to doubt Blackhearted at all because you are such a protector of all of us, then Bebop/virchual you asked for it. Sharen PS: thank you Blackhearted for your protection and wisdom to show us the road

I just want to say again thank you to Blackhearted, he does really watch out for us and we do appreciate all that he does. See he doesn't really have a black heart....:-) Sharen

I am not going to get into who made what light set first. That is for someone's lawyer to figure out, if it comes to that. I just rendered 4 of Virchual's and Blackhearted's sets for demonstration purposes. You can see there are slight differences in the light colors, but they are essentially the same settings.

Y'all might want to have a look at This

"If I may...

Something here doesn't make a whole lot of sense, on all counts. Why would virchual host something on a heavily-trafficked site that would be an obvious copyright infringement?

Just asking, because it really doesn't make sense. "

What makes even LESS sense is that he THEN had the nerve to come over here and complain about it!!

Joan

Blackhearted, I downloaded those light sets, :( I did not know that they were yours,or that he had stolen them, so I will remove them from my system, and I am sorry this happened to you. Sallie

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
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2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
Processor - Clock Speed:  2.8 GHz
Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

Evidence????

If I read the letter Blackharted posted correctly, Homestead leaves it up to Blackhearted to check Bebops site. Nothing in their letter shows that THEY did, they just sent a mail to Bebop to remove the stuff. Without taking sides, logic tells me that if I dont like someone on Homestead, I file some serious complaint, say that nothing changed leading to the removal of that person from their site. Something smells bad and it aint my feet.... Maxx BTW: If Blackhearted is right, his complaint is legit, but Im neither a lawyer nor a judge.

Maxx, Blackhearted IS right, and I believe it was considerably more than just his say-so that went into it.

Probably, MikeJ, but the issue has been taken into the Forum, Bebop dropped it and Blackhearted stepped in it. Since he posted the email exchange, which suggests little effort from the side of Homestead, I think its his responsibility to either come up with some proof of his complaint or close the subject and leave it up to lawyers. Until then, reading this thread, it IS only his say-so against that of virchual/bebop. Again, this is not me taking side, but simply reading and using my common sense. I dang well know how horrific theft can be. Ive written millions worth of software for a client which had been stolen. My boss went alomost bankrupt paying for damages. Actually, I am more interested in a discussion about how to PREVENT situations like this, as in some previous thread it came clear that KAZAA/MORPHEUS/GROKSTER users share almost EVERYTHING for free which is on sale with DAZ and Renderosity. Maxx :-|

maxx, this issue involves a hell of a lot more than what you see here. bebops attacks on me have been going on for months, and i have been in contact with his website host for almost 2 weeks now. the only reason i 'stepped into' this thread is because i noticed virchual slipped up and provided the proof that he is actually bebop. bebop has not been banned over the copyright/warez issue. he was banned months ago over continuing attacks on renderosity members, mainly myself. he has returned with several aliases and continued his attacks, and was subsequently banned as well. this was just his newest attack in this neverending drama that he insists on engineering. as for posting evidence - i have no 'responsibility' to post anything of the sort here. this is an issue between bebop and myself, and the only part that pertains to you is the part where bebop has been banned again for returning to renderosity under an alias. as for closing the subject - it WAS closed until you posted your last two messages. i assure you that the homestead abuse team has received all the evidence that it needs to ensure that bebop's site will never again soil their servers. cheers, -gabriel

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=134920&Start=1&Artist=virchual&ByArtist=Yes

"i have no 'responsibility'" How true http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=134920&Start=1&Artist=virchual&ByArtist=Yes

Sorry-- I don't really want to get into this, but-- an artist having toPROVE their authorship? Now that is just sad. All artists leave something to trust when they post anything, anything at all: their work, their words, what have you. I've been plagiarised, and I'll tell you, it does not feel nice. Blackhearted, I'm sorry.

Blackhearted Why was your lighting set removed from the Market Place a few weeks ago? and then a week later it misteriously returned

i see youve logged in under your other nickname. sleep well, peter.

I don't want to take sides, since I have respect for both Blackhearted and Bebop. However, I noticed your light set was temporarily removed as well, and I'd be interested in hearing your answer to Zoeloves' question if you wouldn't mind. Thanks, take care. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

i posted this in this thread earlier after nikita brought it up, but since she deleted her message i deleted mine as well so i did not seem like an idiot speaking to myself. so here i shall repost it. here is my original message, unaltered: thats interesting, thats the first ive heard of this. in my original light set release months ago, a couple of the studio spotlights (included as a bonus to my global illumination package) were allegedly similar to lights made by StefyZZ in one of her packages. the renderosity copyright comparison was pretty inconclusive, but to avoid argument the offending spotlights were modified by me immediately and the item was re-uploaded to the marketplace. im sure you will have difficulty naming a single vendor in the marketplace that at one time didnt have some sortof alleged copyright or other issue brought against them, especially with their first store item. between that issue, which was resolved months ago, and the issue of bebop reeatedly harassing me and hosting a warez copy of my light set on his homepage and linking it in the poser forum several times, there is a night and day difference. if you think that bebop has ever nurtured a 'noble' idea or cause, youre sadly mistaken. hes been harassing me and several other members from the start, and this final act was just a culmination of that. good riddance to bad rubbish. hopefully this time, the 4th time that he has been banned, it will sink in.

Thank you for explaining. I actually knew of the StefyZZ infringement, but I wanted to hear your side of the story. Renderosity's copyright agents couldn't spot an infringement if it sprouted wings and flew, but I'm pleased to hear that you took it upon yourself to redo those spotlights in question. Hope this whole thing can be settled peacefully, since you and Bebop are both talented artists with a lot to offer. Take care and thanks again. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

I can attest to this whole Bebop/virchual thing - I'm the one who actually called virchual on it in the first place. I notified Blackhearted of course, at the same time I told the admins. I got a sincere thanks from Blackhearted and what I would describe as mild harassment from virchual - he accused me of being a liar, he wouldn't stop IMing me after I had asked twice. Just when I thought he was finally going to stop pestering me, he sent me another message about how 'did you know Blackhearted's lightset was removed from the store a couple weeks ago for copyright violations'? I never asked after it, but I saw Blackhearted's original posting (the one he copied above) and it made a lot of sense. I do have one of SteffyZ's textures and there is a similarity between the studio light sets, but they're definitely different. (And yes, I do have Blackhearted's original set of studio lights)... I don't know what happened to cause such a strong dislike between Bebop and Blackhearted, and frankly I don't care. All I know is what I saw while caught temporarily in the middle of all this.

Attached Link: http://www.dynagrind.com

Just a thought...lol Someone once told me art was for the people. It's no secret i have posted several times i have a problem with the "profiteering" that goes on at Renderosity. Especially since it's only profiteering for certain people obviously. The cliques are almost high school like in their sharing habits. Certain artist seem to get to "beta" test alot of products and personally that bugs me. I guess maybe some artists aren't worthy or somethin..lol. If you all want to squash the piracy problem heres my idea, free is good! You'll never make a living off Renderosity anyways! LOL Enjoy!

heh, ive never had a 'beta-testing' crew, mainly because ive tried it in the past and the people ive entrusted to beta-test an item didnt do what was expected of them, so i got upset and just do my own testing now. i set up a second computer with standard poser so that i can test p4 standard & propack compatibility. i have been know to give my items away to friends or people who i know are in bad financial situations, so if theres one thing i cant be called its a 'profiteer'. i spend a lot of time creating and testing my work, and i dont ask astronomical prices... but if you dont want to compensate me for my time then go download the warez versions of my stuff. just dont come in here and rub my nose in it, host it on your homepage and post links to it in the forums like this fucking jackass did. so honestly i dont understand where your post fits in here, rudi. if youre referring to bebop being so generous as to give his stuff away - keep in mind that every single one of those 'free items' hes been giving away in the forums of late was in his marketplace until the moment he was banned. he only started giving them away after he was banned from renderosity, mainly to gain favor since he made such a monumental ass of himself in the C&D forums. cheers, -gabriel

It is both sad and ironic how two events so different can seem so similar when one doesn't know the details. You see, it is the details which set these matters separate. I've known Gabriel for quite some time. In fact, when StefyZZ's claim was brought against him, I was the first person to whom the information was brought outside of renderosity. In fact, there was at the time a spreadsheet comparison made of both lights sets by renderosity admin, which I still keep on my database. ( I keep everything ) Suffice it to say, the spreadsheet, while showing minor similarities between the two lights sets, was no more conclusive than comparing any two light sets. Coincidentally, all of the similarities were between at most 12 of the over 400 lights. What does this mean? It means that StefyZZ had every right to ask for a review, but that the review left absolutely no evidence of the claim. Thus, the lights set was returned, with Gabriel agreeing to change anything that Stefy might have a question about. The agreement was made by way of saying, "Let's make this matter water under the bridge, so we can all go on with our lives." And so it was... To date their have never been any grumbles by the actual parties involved, until Bebop arrived back on the scene... A lot of people would like to say that this matter is about Bebop being here under another nick, and getting banned again... But it's not. It's about a childish obsessive pirate being held responsible for his actions... Bebop/virchual's light set was not only an alleged violation, it was a proven incidence of theft and distribution, which, luckily for Peter Ansley, Gabriel has not decided to pursue to a criminal court. This is a man who feels that people who disagree with his unethical practices are directly imposing upon him, and so seeks to do them harm. Perhaps someday he will realize his mistakes and amend them, but, unfortunately, I do not hold enough faith in him to expect that. This matter has gone on for over a year, and is beginning to create a sickening feeling that remains even after Bebop's departure. As a community of good, ethical individuals, I hope we can all simply let his name pass from our lips, and let his memory disappear with it. Let anonymity and disgrace be his pennance.

Attached Link: http://www.dynagrind.com

Hey Black, my post was basically just saying if theres so much piracy problems and everyone gets so upset about it, do what i do, give it away. It's a labor of love anyways and i don't expect to make a living at it. I enjoy seeing my stuff used by other artists more than me anyways. And i can tell you put alot of time into your stuff, it always looks amazing so keep it up.

Attached Link: http://www.freecfm.com/p/pimpinwillye/default.htm

I agree with rudipooimf, i prefer to give stuff away for free, mainly cos the stuff i make isn't good enough to sell...Lol. Sorry to you blackhearted, what virchual did sucks

Giving in is never a good answer, especially when you know you are right.

You know... I'm right there with the next guy loving something for free.. god knows I spent enough in simply the last month between here and Daz to pay about half of my bills (sans rent) over again but its there. I also received high quality products for my buck, worth far more but I couldn't have bought it priced any higher. The "free software" idea always cracks me up, not to sound rude, but it's on my list of ideas that work there with communism, good idea if it'd work. I've done very little that I'm so proud of I'd sell (I tried once and I stumbled over so many copyright errors its sick... ignorant mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless) but I see the time there, I see the effort there... And I know what this sort of hobby costs - a lot. I hope to (once I have a better grasp of certain pieces of software) to be able to really contribute here as well, and if I do well, I'll sell some. Am I going to make a living? Hell no. But hopefully it'll defray some of the "costs of doing business." Yes.. poser is expensive but nothing compared to lightwave or 3D Studio Max. Thats just my take... nasty business, this. Anzan

I also have removed the lights I got from Bebop's site. I don't believe they were legimately original, and I'm sorry this happened BH. Thanks for the comparison pic kieraw, it was most helpful.

What I don't get is - what did virchual have to gain by putting the presets up for free on Eaglesgift? Did he make money out of it (can't see how) or make friends, or was it to tweak Blackhearted's nose? If the allegations are true (I don't know enough to make a definite decision on this) what was the point? :] FishNose

Still telling the same old lies, Blackhearted and for your infomation no I am not Bebop or virchual. My name is Zoe and I am the women that lives with Pete. Lie 1 "he was banned months ago over continuing attacks on renderosity members" no only you Blackhearted. If you remember he was defending himself against your trolling of his gallery images. Lie2. "has been hosting my copyrighted marketplace item on his homepage" The light set is not the same and you will notice no one has produced a comparison as in dial settings, names etc. Lie3."bebops attacks on me have been going on for months," Have they? where? some evidence of this allegation please. Lie4. "the issue of bebop reeatedly harassing me and hosting a warez copy of my light set on his homepage and linking it in the poser forum several times" All completely untrue. You do live in a strange fantasy world. Lie5. hopefully this time, the 4th time that he has been banned no only the twice. Both times because of your lies. Several people in the posts above seem to accept Bebops guilt well lets see one single peice of evidence. What were Jeni K's findings? They have never been published. Entropic says "it was a proven incidence of theft and distribution" OK lets see the evidence you have for that allegation. and gabriel the only thing that amazes me about you is your ability to deceive. Oh and what about your texture copyright problems? Remember now who's textures did you copy again?

gabriel, First of all, I DO appologize if I gave you the impression of wanting to patronize you or not to believe you. I DO believe you and I certainly don't want to patronize you. I also emphatize with you for I know very well how it feels when someone takes your creations and ideas claiming them as their own, the anger, frustration, let alone the of loss of income. It might have been my Dutch choice of words getting misinterpreted or the time of nite I wrote it (3:30am, my timezone is GMT+1, 7 hours ahead of Renderosity time). I have no intention whatsoever to get into conflict with you or anybody else here at Renderosity. So, again, I appologize if I gave you the wrong impression. Having said that, I think it doesn't really matter whether I believe you or bebop/virchual. I haven't had any dealings with either of you. I only know you from your work or postings in threads. And that's the whole point, I simply dunno who to believe (and I guess more people outhere have the same problem), hense my request for proof. Why? Well, last November I barged into this Forum flocking a member for claiming a new texture as his own which was unmistakingly a copy of SteffyZ's Asia. Just looking at the texture was enough to get convinced. Still, proof was demanded (who was I to go public with an issue like that?). So I took the time and effort to create a side by side comparison which proved what I had found. Nevertheless, I felt inclined to appologize to the guy for barging in like that as he seemed sincere in making an honest mistake. ( original post: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=473380 ) ( my proof : http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=473995 ) And that's what I meant with responsibility, this is a public area and it's easy enough to flame people publicly making it hard to defend themselves. My lesson for that day was to take my responsibilities and act accordingly. And no, you dont have to agree with anything I write, thank God for individuality, as it is only my view at things. I hope you will find a way to get compensated for your stolen work.... Maxx :-) BTW: I am not a vendor, but I know Renderosity gets 50% of the sales, what is their role in proving ownership of creations? BTW2: This is just me expression my own frustration: the software stolen from me was an extensive library of development tools I had created. A collegue took off with it, claiming it to be his own. I had neither the means nor the measures to proof otherwise and a few dozen of the packages got sold at 10K a piece, that's right, $10,000. My head hurts again thinking of it.

This thread is bound to get deadlocked: Blackhearted sounds reasonable, virchual and zoeloves, though somewhat direct, sound reasonable too. Taking "someone is innocent until proven guilty" into account, either claim stated by both Blackhearted and virchual seem to need proof. Why not get an official statement of Renderosity on the issues at hand? (as it is about products marketed and sold at THEIR site). Maxx

I don't understand at all what bebops picture has to do with anything..... maybe just proof that his gallery is still up?

As for the constant trouble between the 2 well, the C& D is gone now so there went the proof. But I do recall seeing it frequently near the end - before bebop was banned. I also recalled that it was generally bebop who stepped into any thread BH commented on and would aim his comments at BH - regardless of the the actual thread. I think things between the 2 had simply gotten just too heated.

I think that considering the clique behavior that is often shown at 'rosity it is hard to believe the admins would have banned bebop and lost all of his store items without proof. In fact I know that the admins here require proof before banning, it isn't done lightly - so obviously they were supplied some proof and not just "lies"

As for light dial settings, it is obvious without them that the idea was to recreate BH's lights - probably to stick it to him. After all it's the exact same nuumber of lights in the same tones. It was a definite "thumbing of the nose".

I liked Peter, but he really does need to step back and if he hated BH then ignore him. Be adult about it.

Lastly "rosity isn't a public board - it is privately owned. They have the right to refuse anyone they choose and set up their own rules,we may disagree with them but this isn't a democracy - no website is, it is a tyranny (I used to have that on my website lol) as are all websites. If we want the privilege of visiting, posting, downloading, etc. then we need to follow the rules (if not agree with them) or we can leave. But if someone is banned - they are banned because the admins decided to do so, that is the way it works. Sneaking in is like trespassing into someone's backyard in the middle of the night - it's wrong, even if you disagree with the reasons for it.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

your bebop nick has been banned once, a 48 hr ban because you were making personal attacks in C&D and the galleries. it was banned again, permanently, a week later along with both of the aliases you created to continue your attacks. (User bebop banned - This user was banned for continuing personal attacks on another member despite being warned multiple times by the administration, and further creating clone accounts to continue the fight.) Forum News it was just banned now, the fifth account of yours that has been banned, for doing the same. youre now working on your 6th banning. get that through your head, you retarded little child. youre not welcome here, and as for your attacks on me - youve never been more to me than mild comic relief, something to relieve the monotony. its actually quite amusing that youve spent hours plagiarizing my light set, trolling my gallery, creating parody images, etc. i can imagine you obsessively hunched over your little computer, seething with hatred, chanting 'im going to get him this time' like some impotent cartoon villain. i hope you sleep well, peter. but listen - its not a total loss on your part. at least youve brought a smile to my face. love, -gabriel

0.o

This is all about a LIGHT SET?? Remind me to copyright the arrangement of items on my desk sometime.

Well, since no one at admin seems to be interested in stepping up to the plate on this, I have a suggestion: BH, Bebop -- both of you: send me your light sets and I'll post a complete study on both -- dial settings, dimness settings, screen captures, the whole lot. Send the original files so I can see the creation and modification dates. I will be completely impartial on this because, quite frankly, you're both starting to piss me off with this. Now, if both of you want this settled once and for all, the offer stands. My e-mail is virtuasite@aol.com. Can't make it any simpler than that.

Somewhere in the middle of all the 'posin' and the 'light setting'... we forgot the 'love'. Isn't that always the way? (sadly rhetorical)

And what the heck, let's make it even more interesting. If neither of you chooses to take me up on this, I'll put it to the community and ask them to send them to me, and we'll get the information that way. But one way or another, this is gonna be settled, understood? You two have been carrying on like this for far too long.

virtual, do you even bother to read the threads you post in? this has very little to do with the light set itself, it has to do with his attacks on renderosity members and the fact that he keeps returning to renderosity under aliases after he has been banned several times to continue them. the light set was just his final attack, the one with which he finally stepped out of the grey area of TOS interpretation. this is no longer in the grey area, he has broken the law, and i was finally able to take action. id be glad to send you both light sets, mine from the store and his from his website. if you dont trust me in providing the original file, then get it from jenyk or from someone else here who has downloaded them and you know is not bebop. 'I'll put it to the community and ask them to send them (the light sets) to me, and we'll get the information that way' - ill pretend i didnt hear that. keep in mind that my set is in the marketplace.

do you even bother to read the threads you post in? Yes, I do, thanks ever so for asking, and if you want to keep any of the points you've scored, you'll shut up and note that I'm trying to focus on the issue that seems to drive this particular thread: that damn lighting set. the fact that he keeps returning to renderosity under aliases I'm aware of that, as is just about anyone else who knows his work. No need to state the obvious. he has broken the law, and i was finally able to take action And now I have to ask you: are you reading this thread? There seems to be more than a small issue over who actually developed it and when that's somewhat key to whatever is the problem between you two. I don't know what started this animosity, and frankly I don't care. But I've watched this sandbox mentality for far too long, so let's just address this one thing that you both claim as your own, okay? id be glad to send you both light sets As I told you in the IM, send them on. If anyone else wants to send Bebop's version on as a double-check, that would be appreciated. And no disrespect to you, BH: it's simply a way of making sure this is kept completely above board. ill pretend i didnt hear that Pretend whatever the hell you like. If either or both of you wish to assume to martyr's position, it makes no difference to me. Get off yer damn high horse and send the stuff, okay?

Oh, and let me add one small thing here. Should anyone out there think this offer is some kind of scam to warez a lighting preset, I'm gonna put it as bluntly as I know how. Get real.

Im confused....Way back on post 15 Jenyk posted that she sent out a notice about copyright materials (light set). One would think that she would have to compare the 2 light sets before she could ethically send out such a complaint. There have been others, like myself that have purchase Blackhearted's lightset, that also have compared the 2 light sets prior to this posting. That information was sent to the mods weeks ago.

true enough, Ivy, but I'm gonna make this so thorough there can be no question. If you read through the thread, some people aren't quite as certain one way or the other. I'd just like it settled with something concretely documented. Now, again, I'm happy to do this because I want to get this matter resolved. I've seen it too many times now, and I've not seen anyone post any sort of hard-number results in the threads. Let's just do it and get it over with so we can al move on, okay?

VirtualSite- I do have the lightset from the Eaglesgift site, from a while ago. I would be willing to buy the BH set to compare, but I do not know enough about light sets to know what to look for. Can you give me some idea what to look for? Also, BH may have removed his set and replaced them with Bebops set so they do match by now. I think that could be very likely the way these two are acting! I also think is is more likely that Bebop created an equal set of lights to BH's, then actually posting an actual copy of his. If that is the case, they would probably be legal. Anyway, please let me know if you think it would pay to buy the BH ones now, or if you agree that it may be too late.

"Also, BH may have removed his set and replaced them with Bebops set so they do match by now. I think that could be very likely the way these two are acting!" its foolish unfounded accusations like these that make renderosity the fun place it always is.

I don't know yet. I've gotten the light sets for both from three sources now, so if there has been any shenanigans, I can find them pretty quickly. And thank you to everyone who sent them; it'll make the cross check comparisons a lot easier. Insofar as what to look for in a light set -- well, I'm not sure what to tell you on that score. I wouldn't buy one without being able to see all of its variations in a Poser render (with no postwork, and that's important). I can tell you that the light sets that were available as freebies at Poserworld were pretty good, but it'd be difficult to say why, exactly. This is something that's pretty subjective. It just depends on what you want to accomplish with your lighting, more than anything else. Insofar as whether or not I would recommend buying BH's set... well, forgive me for demuring on that for the moment. I'd suggest asking someone else, since I can't make that kind of decision until the matter that started this thread is cleared up.

BH- Sorry, but I read a few posts in this thread that said your set was gone for a while and then came back. With your attitude towards Bebop, anything could be possible. It wasn't an accusation, just a statement. I didn't say 'has' or even 'probably has', I said 'may have'.

VS- OK, I hope you share your findings with us. I too would like to have this settled.

"With your attitude towards Bebop, anything could be possible" rwilliams, i think you have things backwards. keep in mind that this person you are so adamantly defending has just had his 5th account banned from renderosity. think hard on that. do you think there might be a REASON hes been banned repeatedly? do you think im that reason? or do you think his own actions - attacks on several renderosity members, violations of the TOS and copyright law - are that reason? if you expect to step into this thread and post logical conclusions and intelligent remarks then i suggest that you read it in its entirety, and not just skim over 'a few posts'.

I think Bebop was rightfully banned from this site by his own actions. I never said I was defending him. I do not even know him any more than I know you. But the fact of the matter is that in this thread we can only hear one side, so I would like to see some facts. I have been coming to this site since it's begining, and have followed most if not all of the threads that you and Bebop clashed, including the ones in C&D. What he did was wrong. Your attitude didn't help. Now I just want proof of your claim, and you haven't provided it, which is your right. So I hope VS will provide. So please sit back and wait for the results.

Okay - let me chime in AGAIN. I bought Blackhearted's lightset before it was removed for that short duration. When I saw that someone was giving away a free set of lights that looked really decent, I thought to myself: Yea! Can never have enough nice lighting sets. ... when I saw the name of the file (which was very similiar to the title that BH has his called and the first obvious attempt at a snub on Bebop's part). I installed them and switching back and forth between the sets, I noticed that for most appearances they were exactly the same. Even what the individual lights were called were somehow a spin-off of what BH has named his. Taking a closer look at the actual settings, what I recall noticing was that Bebop had made modifications so minor that IT in itself read as a mockery. Even at that most of the lights were in the exact same positions. I can only assume that VirtualSite's experiments will turn up the same thing. I didn't take a deep, scientific look at them. I knew instantly that it was a rip-off, so I notified the proper authorities so they could look into the problem and determine the exact violation.

Personally I wouldn't buy ANY light set and the ones shown above I wouldn't download for free. I am quite ignorant of the behaviour imputed to Bebop that got him banned. The one thing I do know is that the wonderful textures he has generously made available for free have given me much pleasure. I think the Poser community is the main loser here.

So here's the drill, in case anyone's interested. I leave on Saturday for the New England Theatre Conference and some business in NY. I'll be taking my laptop and these files with me and posting what I find when I get home at the end of the month. Yeah, a few weeks waiting. Life sucks, don't it... =) See you then.

Take care VS, hope you have a productive time. But for heaven's sake, we don't need to wait two weeks for the comparison. :) If you want to send them to me, I'll have comparisons done by tomorrow afternoon. I've been doing a number of texture comparisons for vendors to help them spot infringements in the Marketplace, this shouldn't be any more difficult. Thanks, take care. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Thoroughness in everything, Snow. God is in the details. =) I appreciate the offer, but I started this, and I want to see it through. And yeah, it'll be a while, but what's a couple of weeks at this point?