I've just been calling them that since I started with them--and then decided they were probably outdoors types--likely fishermen. And--it just went from there. I'm using George Deep's great new P4 male textures but tweaked them a bit (added stubble to Patrick, tweaked their eye color, etc.). I used Tim's bald male hair, I think, and a standard male hair but I tried applying Yamato's Kyoko hair texture to them and it worked okay. I post worked both but I got that 'texture' to begin with that I wanted. Mico's sweater texture, recolored for Patrick. Eric is the more 'Nordic' type on the left and Patrick the more 'Celtic' type on the right. Diane B