I finally finished the spider and set up the joint parameters it's not the most brilliant model, but it's my first, and I did build it totally from scratch I'm trying to upload this to my webpage as I speak (having trouble with the connection *sigh*) but hopefully it should be on freestuff very soon I must thank Eshal heaps for helping me out, putting up with me sending her millions of renderings as I was building it and helping me decide what to change, helping me with the textures etc. but most of all for continuing to encourage me so I actually ended up finishing it. PhilC for putting up with me hammering him with questions =) LoboUK for....dunno, but you rock Paul! Ikyoto for saying he wants me to post the model (and I hope he's not the only person that wants that) bloodsong for telling me I need a scowl brow (which I didn't end up making) If many people download/use this, and there is any demand, I'll make an addon-pack with a scowl brow, and extra things like webs, more pipes etc. so you can customize it oh...and legume...don't let it eat any babies, remember what happened with the frog? SewerRat