BOO! I think its about time I made a "Stalinosity" pic for my gallery now.

hello, this is something new we are trying. we'll see how it works out. sorry you are unhappy with the change... however, this change was prompted by heavy complaints from members about the existing system. members were upset that it was turning into a publicity/political contest as opposed to an artistic achievement recognition. thanks audre

Well put Audre.

So you remove the ability for the people that suppy you guys with content to choose who they think best fits the bill? That doesn't sound right. Have two AOM's then. One for US and one for the illuminatus you guys have assembled. As far as the "complainers", they can just cry all they want. The AOM was democratically chosen in the past, now you gotta be over with the committee just to have a chance at running for it. Here's an idea, return the ability of chosing a people's choice back to the people. This way, you will be appreciative of those that are responcible for keeping this place up in the first place. (that would be us, the folks that put our works on this site and give you content). You may own the webspace, but we keep people returning to it. If it weren't for "us", you wouldn't have this little nugget on your resume. Now give us back the AOM like a good little employee.

hello there, i don't believe i've given you a good reason to insult me, employee or not. i also don't believe i've treated you with any disrespect and would appreciate the same in return. >As far as the "complainers", they can just cry all they want. we try to listen to our members. if the maajority of feedback we get on an issue tells us something is wrong, we do our best to fix it. these aom modifications were a direct result of getting feedback telling us that the existing system was not ultimately what the community thought the AOM was about. thanks for your feedback. audre

"i don't believe i've given you a good reason to insult me, employee or not. i also don't believe i've treated you with any disrespect and would appreciate the same in return." You've taken away my ability to choose who I feel deserves an AOM nomination. Would you like me to inform you on why people get irate when the freedom of choice is taken away? "we try to listen to our members. if the maajority of feedback we get on an issue tells us something is wrong, we do our best to fix it. these aom modifications were a direct result of getting feedback telling us that the existing system was not ultimately what the community thought the AOM was about." Oh, so you'll listen to them....just sporadically and only when it suits your needs. Face it, some whiners bitched because they were jealous that their stupid vicky pinups didn't get them moninated. Big deal. That's no reason to screw everyone else in the R'osity community out of the ability to nominate and vote for whoever they choose. Lesse, people bitched about the so-called "joke patrol" because they felt that it corrupted the democratic process. Well, let's just take away the process altogether! That'll make EVERYONE happy! When exactly did Ashcroft and Bush take over this site, eh?

TwoBeans: The employees of rosity aren't the 'Illuminatus', I am. I arranged World War 1 in order to promote my own political and economic strength, and have continued to work on ruling the world, since. Renderosity's really not that important a player in the move to suppress your civil liberties or to acquire your servitude of my ultimate plan. I can assure you, as well, that though you believe nothing of what I have written here, that's the entire point. In other words, stop giving rosity so much credit. While, I'm pretty sure that the "Renderosity Final Solution" is big news to the world, and am surprised that nobody from CNN or MSNBC has sent investigative journalists to investigate the horribly opressive regime we are VOLUNTARILY supporting with our membership, I don't see any reason for name calling or meanness to good people. Paul P.S.: Next week I'll be using the current division in Middle East politics to raise gas prices in the U.S. Please don't complain, this trick is old hat by now. fnord

LOL :)

Entropic: "They" sent you, didn't "they"?

the idea of having a 'popular' member vote is definitely something to consider. as an addition to AOM, we can have a MOM as well... a Member of the Month, who is voted by popularity of the community. if this is something that you would like to see, why not start a thread in the community ideas forum and let's see what feedback we get. http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12375 thanks audre

Entropic: "They" sent you, didn't "they"? Nope. No one sends me anywhere. You forget, I control everything. Your entire life is in my hands. I should say at this time, however, that I am not the sole member of my organisation, but I speak for them if they need spoken for. For some reason it seems that eloquence is not a prerequisite for world domination, contrary to popular belief. Most of the members ( there are 5, called the Pentaverat ) lack a gift for words, so they ask for me to assume such responsibilities... I'm sure you understand. On a side note, and more to the point of the thread, I like the choices for AOM, and think that so long as the nomination committee stays on track, it's a good change. As a 3ds user primarily, I'm impressed with all the work of the nominees, and am glad that I have to spend time in consideration of my vote, and actually evaluate the talent of each, than to simply vote for someone who I've heard of. Paul P.S.: Sorry about the sarcasm, TwoBeans, but it's my best way of getting people to notice that they're taking things too personally. ;) Gotta keep perspective to survive here, right?

Interesting... This is one of those things that if it had been set up this way from the beginning, it'd be no big deal - everyone would be used to it. Since it wasn't, it's going to cause some controversy. To some, it's always going to look like a reaction to appease the complainers. I think that as long as the panel making the nominations are skilled and unbiased, and non-political, it has some potential. For one, it potentially eliminates a lot of the "the same people get nominated over and over", or "the AOM is rigged" complaints. Potential anyway... If there's ever a question about how the panel does the choosing, all of those come back fourfold. Big question is wether or not we [staff] have the credibilty still to make this change without generating still more controversy over it. That's something only the members are going to be able to answer.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Well I took a look at the nominated artsts........ the committee has great taste, I will say that, there's some great talent there! May I ask how the committee arrived at their choices, and is there anyone that can be contacted to submit someone for consideration? "Artist of the Month" isn't important to me, I'm not even close to the caliber of some of the great talent here, if I were I might feel differently. But I always vote, as I read the various forums it is important to some. This statement worries me somewhat though: "the idea of having a 'popular' member vote is definitely something to consider. as an addition to AOM, we can have a MOM as well... a Member of the Month, who is voted by popularity of the community." I really believe the membership is just too large to have a popularity contest and will foster more negative energy than positive. Just my two cents, ~j~

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

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Maybe it's one of this "different cultur" thingy, but "The AOM committee members shall remain anonymous" sounds indeed alot like stalinism and totalitarianism to me. And besides this, I wonder what this committee has to hide? Ok, time for the usual saying: It's your side, do what ever you like as long as I'm not supposed to be a part of this farce >:{. But maybe you should consider how the honored artists feel about this. Maybe that's just me, but I wouldn't feel much honored if I were nominated by an anonymous committee. Hope you'll find enough members who are willing to vote under this conditions. As far as I'm concerned, I never cooperated with "anonymous committees" and I'll not start to do it now - I'm out of this AOM thingy! regards Thomas

BOO! BOO! BOO! If Renderosity was the only site on the Internet, it could get away with this. As it is, I'm sure any artist who received the insult of being selected by a committee designed to avoid controversial or interesting candidates will immediately turn elsewhere. Let me ask: would this "anonymous committee" even CONSIDER someone like a Legume or a Codini? Utterly ridiculous. If I were either of those two genuine artists, I know I would demand to be removed as AOM immediately, to avoid being put in the same crowd as Rosity's sponsors' pet candidates. If you want to have two winners, then leave AOM as it is, and add Lackey of the Month so there's no confusion between the genuine and the rigged. Gallery pulled.

There's already a popularity contest out there - it's called the Hot 20. Personally, I like this change. Asking members to nominate and vote for AOM was becoming less and less viable as the commmunity grew. I'm not, however, sanguine about the anonymous committee. Surely we have a right to know who is making these decisions, given that there's still a popular vote involved? Or at least how many are there, and what their qualifications are? I mean, is this a way of saying it's "admin's choice", or are they members? Are the committee people whose artistic opinions the members can respect?

It is self-evident that the express purpose of the anonomous committee is to make sure that interesting choices like Legume never happen again. Otherwise, there would be no reason whatsoever for committee members to be anonymous. If Renderosity was at all interested in a fair system, they would at least allow all former winners of the AOM to be a part of the committee... but what, honestly, do you think are the odds of that?

It's self-evident that the express purpose of an anonymous committee is to make sure people aren't sucking up to the committee to try and get a nomination, and to make sure someone who fails to be nominated doesn't decide to start attacking committee members on a personal level through IM or email or forum posts. Considering the contents of this thread, and some of the vicious attitudes regarding the subject, I can see why they're being cautious. Some artists on this site seem a bit unstable. Crap, people, it's not like AOM comes with a cash prize and an instant job offer. It's a spotlight to showcase good talent, show R'osity members artists that are exceptional that they might have missed.... considering how many images are posted every day, it's easy for good images to get buried. AOM is not for ego stroking, or to give your buddy a payback for some nice comment they made on your gallery posting. AOM is something to inspire us; seeing truly exceptional work gives our own creative spark a jolt. I just can't believe how vicious in tone this thread is... R'osity's AOM is very small compared to the global 'big picture'. Tilandra

It's self-evident that the express purpose of an anonymous committee is to make sure people aren't sucking up to the committee to try and get a nomination, and to make sure someone who fails to be nominated doesn't decide to start attacking committee members on a personal level through IM or email or forum posts. yes this is the primary reason that, at this time, the AOM committee is anonymous. perhaps as time goes on, and things stabilize we can adjust this process. as i've stated, this process is subject to revision based on overall member feedback and participation. there is no perfect system that would satisfy everyone, but we feel confidant that with a bit work and perhaps a few tweaks we can get something in place that fits the bill. thanks everyone for taking the time to feedback. i know this is upsetting to some of you and you see it as an attack or threat, it's really not the intent. the intent was to bring the process back in line with what most members envisioned the AOM to be in the first place. audre

Dammnnn, and i had cookies for all the committee members... bribing the members?? moi??? hehe

I agree with you, Tilandra. If a site, where I found inspiration and that was filled with the spirit of respect, helpfulness and freedom is turned into a virtual "Archipel Gulag" then this is not the end of our civilization nor is it of any universal relevance.... ...but I once loved this site and I hate to see what they accomplished lately. So sorry if I'm not particulary amused about that and if you want, feel free to call me unstable for that. :o) "the intent was to bring the process back in line with what most members envisioned the AOM to be in the first place." The process was fine and I enjoyed it and now just a farce is left. Of course, if the expectation of these "most members" (LOL) was to let their "Stars" constantly become the AOM, without the risk that other members inadvertently nominate the "wrong" artist, then indeed, you did a great job. But in this case I would prefer a bit more consistent: nomiate and vote what ever the several "pressure groups" here likes to see as their AOM in your "anonymous committees". This would be at least a bit more honest and a bit more comprehensible for me. regards Thomas

But in this case I would prefer a bit more consistent: nomiate and vote what ever the several "pressure groups" here likes to see as their AOM in your "anonymous committees". >This would be at least a bit more honest and a bit more comprehensible for me. i am sorry i don't quite understand what you mean. i am very open to suggestions and truly am looking for a way to satisfy as many members as possible. just not following what you mean. thanks audre

stupid...utterly

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yes this is the primary reason that, at this time, the AOM committee is anonymous. perhaps as time goes on, and things stabilize we can adjust this process.<<< Okay, audre, I understand that. There has certainly been enough unpleasantness around here recently for people to be justifiable wary of attack. However, my original point still stands. Without naming the "committee", I still feel members have a right to some information about the type of people invited by the admins to do this. How many are there? Are they admins? Merchants? Ordinary members? People who are also artists...and if so, does serving on the committee bar them from being an AOM candidate themselves? Let me repeat: I absolutely support this move. I think it's a good thing. I'm simply asking for a little openness about it.

I like the idea in general.. I do not have time to go through every single gallery .. and uploads being what they are I often miss things.. I like the idea of a committee that goes through every thing first and picks out the artists that really stand out .. it makes voting a lot more pleasurable for me and I am more likely to vote. As far as the committee being anonymous ..I think there is a bit of a trust issue here between the members and the Admin at the moment (state the obvious much?) and until that is resolved perhaps by time, we members are going to be suspect as to the motives of Admin with something like this...and what with forums being very controlled and threads being locked or deleted .. members being temporarily banned.. well perhaps the Admin can understand why folks are feeling a bit threatened and defensive. At any rate, that said, I can understand the need for anonymity ..I sure as heck would not want it known if I was one of the judges.. can you imagine ;-)??

I agree with eirian. I have no problem with the anonymity per se, but knowing something about the makeup of the committee would be good. Also, I think it would be helpful to know what criteria are used for selecting the nominees. Just my .02.

Maybe a "mission statement" from the AOM committee would be a good idea here. One where they lay out the basics - AOM selection criteria, committee member representations (how many people, ratios of admin to mods to general members, etc) without mentioning any specific names, of course, as I agree that personal anonymity is the best way to go for a committee of this sort. Kate

"i am sorry i don't quite understand what you mean. i am very open to suggestions " Hmm, maybe if I put it this way? If the owner of this site wants to keep under control who gets AOM here and don't want the members to decide on this, then at least don't offend us with a caricature of a vote. Choose your AOM, or let some etablished artists and their fan groups do this job. (that's the reason for this change anyway, isnt it?) Just don't bore us with kinky "anonymous committees" and don't pretend that we members have any influence on who gets AOM. That's what I would call a bit more honesty. Furthermore, if I make a decision about whatever, I don't need to hide myselve behind a "anonymous committees" only people who plan to abuse their privileges or are unsuitable for a certain job have a reason to stay anonymous. And if a commitee don't respect the members here but is just so afraid of them that they don't dare to tell them who they are and who they nominated, then all this AOM voting don't makes much sense anyway, does it? Feel free to ask again if you still don't get my point. ;) As for a suggestion, nothing was broken so don't try to fix it! kind regards Thomas

What eirian said. :)

I think that TwoBeans owes Renderosity a large debt of gratitude. The overwhelming theme of his renders is a perpetual attack against Renderosity. If it weren't for Renderosity his gallery would be empty :) I wonder how he squares his 'totalitarian' theory with the fact that his gallery is allowed to remain in spite of that fact.

Heh. I think, Richabri, that once a person has made up their mind
on something being bad and evil, they usually refuse to actually
consider it as anything else. I'm here every day, several hours a
day, and I've noticed an unfortunate contingent who feel some need
to rebel against everything that this place does. Frankly, I think
that once a person compares an online site to Nazi Germany or
Stalinistic Russia, their argument loses all merit... but that's
just me. Paul >Have you been consumed by your stupid conspiracy
lately?

Side Note: Do people really feel that the Renderosity staff is out to get THEM? I think psychologists might find some interesting things to say about that theory. ( delusions of persecution come to mind )

I don't feel the Renderosity staff is out to get ME or anyone else. The folks I've dealt with have all been upfront, helpful, courteous - what I expect from an admin. I admit to being disappointed with this solution. Although I understand the thinking behind an anonoymous committee, I do not agree that a committee should chose the nominees for AOM. As you can already see, this move opens up a whole new can of worms and in my opinion doesn't solve the original complaint. If I had realized that our feedback would have led to this, I would have voted for the AOM to stay as it was. I also have to admit that I am disappointed that I had put forth a valid and what I felt to be a fair solution, which seemed to appeal to some that posted to audre's earlier thread. my three cents... Sihn

I've just got to disagree with you, zardoz. Don't forget - I've been on the other side of the fence as well for almost two years. There's good reason for keeping a committee anonymous that have nothing to do with conspiracy. In the past year and a half, I've gotten tons of IM's and emails from members who've either been or felt they're being harrased over one issue or another... all of those have to be examined and looked into. It doesn't take much stretch of imagination for me to picture members of an AOM committee getting deluged with "nominate me or else blah blah blah" IM's and mails, "what's wrong with my gallery"?, gallery links, "why wasn't I nominated?", "you guys suck" abuse, "this is rigged because... " mails... ad infinitum. Even potentially "I'll give you ALL of my store products FREE if you nominate me!" emails. ;] Man, I know that you're as imaginative as I am. We've been in the same forums too long, bud. You can see the potential for that as well as I can. Look at all the controversy that's happened over vote soliciting in the current system. Sounds silly when you type it, but this sort of thing is important enough to some people that they'll go over the edge on it. So, I don't have a real problem with the anonymity on the committee. Saves them a lot of potential abuse and personal harrassment.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

{{{{It is self-evident that the express purpose of the anonomous committee is to make sure that interesting choices like Legume never happen again.}}}}

It is self-evident that the express purpose of the anonomous committee is to make sure that EMBARASSING choices like Legume never happen again.

BTW, did I mention that Doc Legume has his own forum over on www.poserpros.com, where he expresses himself and his unique artistic vision freely?

Why not just avoid all the controversy and let the members choose AOM? Is this still a community? Maybe the voice of the membership is becoming an embarrasment for some reason. If there was an abuse of the system, you fix the abuse, you don't silence the members. Another bad administrative move that is only further alienating the site from it's members.

Why not just avoid all the controversy and let the members choose AOM? hey russ, long time no see. the direction we are heading when we started on this was trying to address the two largest areas of complaint and perspective... one was the 'intent' of the AOM... the other was a popularity vote. i think we can satisfy both issues here by addressing each with it's own event, have an AOM (not sure if the committee is going to be permanent or not but we'd like to see how it works for a bit), and a Member of the Month, where members of various groups and user-group-circles can vote to show their appreciation of someone they consider special. the whole point is to get as many members as possible into the spotlight. we have such a diversity of talent and interest here that i think the aom was just not satsifying to enough people. now, i realize that my words are going to be dissected and trashed and stomped on... that's okay... i know that some folks are really upset. what i want to stress is that we are really trying to work this out for everyone's benefit if you will work with us, we can eventually work out some solution that will satisfy both camps.

dissect trash stomp Oh... wait... Here's a solution: Force anyone who wants to be AOM to fight it out in a ring before fifty million viewers. We'll call it Rosity Death Match! The winner gets to live and be AOM. Pay-per-view income alone should cover the cost of site operations and litigation! I know, I'm wierd. I'll shut up now. Paul

"now, i realize that my words are going to be dissected and trashed and stomped on..." Certainly not by me. I don't play those word games. You're basically saying that the administration is trying to appease those complaining about the "popular" vote of the membership in who they would like to see in the AOM spotlight? And from what I've read, the "Member of the Month" is going to be random, not voted for. How does that let the members vote their appreciation for anyone, as you say?

Hrm... From what I read, she's saying the MOM will be exactly what the AOM was... Did I miss something? Paul

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewStory=1522

"To reward members for participating in the vote, the AOM will select a number, randomly, between 1 and the total number of people who voted for them. The member who was that number of voter then becomes that "Voter of Note" and will be hilited along side the AOM." From this month's AOM voting article. That's what I thought she was talking about. If it's something different than the "Voter of Note", then I've seen nothing announced yet, so I could very well be wrong here.

yea the MOM is a different animal...and is exactly that... voted for by the community... someone special whos friends think they belong in the spotlight that month. the voter of the month was a way to recognise another member for taking the time to vote. one of the other feedback trends we got regarding the aom was 'what's in it for me, the voter'.... so this was our first stab at getting as many members as possible into the spotlight as possible. did that make sense?

Makes sense to me, audre. You're just saying Voter of Note and Member of the Month aren't the same, which is probably why they're not called the same thing, or talked about in the same way, and in fact, appear completely unrelated. Paul

Oh the MoM was not yet official... we were still trying to get feedback on it... i asked about it way up inthe beginning of this thread but the feeding frenzy had already started. this whole change was our first attempt of addressing the various 'groups' of complaints we got regarding the existing AOM process and results. DOH and sorry for the bad grammer. i was busy responding to too many emails and thread. but i think you got the idea inspite of the word repeats and typos.

Noted, audre. FWIW, I think MOM is a good compromise to the changes with the AOM. Is there going to be a thread in Community Ideas to gauge support? Paul

Thanks for clarifying. You have to be very careful when the members see their rights being further restricted. But ... I'm sure you already know that. ;)

members rights are not being restricted in any way. that is how these reactions start... when someone starts with a wrong assumption... that's how members begin to 'see' things that aren't necessarily there. what is being done is the AOM and it's purpose, value, and process were re-evaluated based on the plethora or ongoing and vehament complaints we've recieved by members. do you honestly think we would have touched this if there weren't large numbers of complaints? do i look suicidal?

i would love to know what people think of the MOM idea. please don't be bashful chuckle

Well.... one quibble Russ. I haven't precisely seen that the community/popularity vote exactly cut down on controversy any. ;] Remember the monthly "WHY IN THE HELL DID SO AND SO GET VOTED AOM?!?!?!?!!!!????" Threads in C&D? snicker And always starting with "I certainly don't want to insult so and so, but... "

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Do keep in maind - I'm of the school of thought that controversy isn't a bad thing. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

plethora or ongoing

should be

plethora of ongoing

To put things into perspective for everyone (not that I was asked or anything) I'll recount the history of the AOM.

In it's first incarnation it was picked by the site manager (Willow), no membership vote.

In the second it was picked by a Moderator nomination and vote, no membership vote.

In the third it was nominated and voted upon by (a very small fraction of) the members (and largely thought of as worthless).

Will this be any better? I hope so.

-Jeff

I think that MOM would be a good plan. {Besides, Mom would slap me if I didn't vote for her. snicker] Provides a place for people to both excercise their freedom to nominate who they want, and for the others to politic and rig the election to their hearts content. A "win/win" solution if I ever saw one. And still leaves room for all of the "Why the hell did soandso win MOM?!?" threads in the forii. ;] 'Sides, with both the comittee AOM, and the "popular" MOM, we don't really "lose" anything - we gain an opprotunity to honor two [three?] people a month instead of just one. What be like, wrong with that?

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

No, it's not the end of the world if Renderosity throws away its credibility; it's just sad. This site isn't (or perhaps WASN'T) just a corporate advertisement: for a number of members it represented an artistic online community. Those three words "artistic", "online", and "community" imply a degree of openness one wouldn't demand from microsoft.com. Choosing acceptable artists by politburo takes any shred of credible openness and throws it in the garbage. The politburo has still failed to answer the most important question: would its anonymous committee ever, ever even CONSIDER an artist like Legume, who was elected AOM by a vast margin of the former Renderosity community? They haven't answered because if they said "yes" even the least skeptical reader would see the fingers crossed behind their backs.

Or, the yhaven't answered because answering would burn their anonymity, and break any NDA they had? That's an "are you STILL beating yer wife?" question. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

"You know perfectly well that this is the case, " I do? Heh heh. And based on what do you know that? ;] Feel free to be embarrased. In a few days, I'll be a free agent again, with no agenda. And no real need to adhere to any TOS or policy if I decide I don't care to. You can impugn my word then, at your peril, any time you choose. In the meantime, I state MY point of view. I don't honestly give a rats if Rosity likes my views or not - I've proven that enough times. If I think somethings a good idea, I'll say so. If I thinks it's a bad one, I'll say that also. In this case, as I stated, I think it has some merits. It also has drawbacks... and I pointed those out also. You're not speaking for the "mandate" of any committee out of anything that you haven't made up in your own head. And it's worth as much as any self manufactured evidence - the worth of the hot air behind it. Good day to you sir, I'll quit wasting my time with you.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

No it's not a "STILL beating yer wife" question, it's a simple question of policy, which the secret committee could answer through the administrators, someone like Audre. If, however, the Shadow Renderosity feels that it cannot give even the slightest hint as to whether they will ever allow another "embarrasing" artist to be chosen by its former community, then that is an answer in itself: namely, that the mandate of the "committee" (if it is more than one person) is specifically to prevent a candidate like Legume from happening again. You know perfectly well that this is the case, and I'm a little embarrased for you having to defend such an indefensible policy.

The above two posts got reversed, I think, because I edited my post for grammer while IB posted the response. Nonetheless I hold by what I said in despite of IB's grandstanding ("Good day to you sir, I'll quit wasting my time with you" -- oh the heartfelt drama! My empty days without Ironbear!). I was not talking to him, but to the artists who have been paying attention to what's been going on lately. I urge any artist who has received the insult of being nominated by the Shadow Renderosity to pull his or her works in protest... though I am equally sure that such urging on my part is unnecessary.

snicker Works for me. I'm only in it for the entertainemnt value. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Feel free to quit wasting your time with me any time now...

As soon as you stop being entertaining. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Leave it to someone at Renderosity to think that's a BAD thing.

"I've just got to disagree with you, zardoz." That's an old news and I guess live will get kind of boring the day you agree with me :]. Seriously, as for the manipulation, I can't see how anybody could have influence on the vote if the committee is announced with or after the nomination. As for the complains, well, both of us stated more than one time, that people who can't stand the heat shouldn't post in a certain forum. ;) Same applies to the committee, nobody is forced to join in, and if one is too sesible for this job it's better to skip it in honor than to hide oneself behind an "anonymous committee". A member/mod/admin who is too sensible and don't do the job for this reason will have all my respect, a member who needs to hide behind an anonymous committee or a clone account, well................. fill in what's politically correct here these days. ::evil grin:: " I've been on the other side of the fence as well for almost two years." Yeah, wish you still were, then at least I don't had to drink my (virtual) beer now in a pub without a roof. ;) As for the history that Jeff mentioned, maybe it's a good idea to get Willow back. As far as I got it, at least she was able to run a site in a totalitarian way without getting utterly absurd. ;) cheers Thomas

The artists that the Secret Committee chose to allow the community to consider -- josecastello, DViL, Lon Chaney, kenbxpst850, the hankster, TBKoen, brschmidt, nitro115, Taron, crommcruac, sms, and jotaele -- do not deserve the insult you threw in their faces. Not even allowing a write-in candidate! I knew Rosity was embarrassed by genuine artists winning in the last two months, but I didn't know it was THAT embarrassed!

Amazing how you can strike a blow for all the genuine artists and insult all those artists in the same breath. What do you do for an encore? ;] ********************************** "and I, of course, am innocent of all but malice." - Fiona of Amber

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Well, I was going to get all long winded and eloquent and all and proclaim my wants and desires in regards to this weighty topic, but then I realized, all I really want is one of bonbons's cookies! Regards- Lemurtek

F... any and every "Anonymous" single thing, Cotorsiums & last Contorsions ! Just a parabolic Remark: (talking about Poser software) _Poser is very...virtual...!!! _In Poser and Poser-stuff,humans are represented with n hair, bald, as the basic human characters, male or female. ...then,if you want, you can always add hair..okay ! SORRY ! In the real world, people, women or men HAVE HAIR growing all the time excepted helas, if you are a female h..gs, or neo-nazi big-girl Boys. (I'm not talking about the martyrs who have cancer; in this case, it is of course terrible to lose one's hair, which adds to the ugly misery of this bestial horrible disease. The ones who have cancer are not happy to have no hair. (My son Vincent_31 years old has a brain-tumor and he's going to have x-rays treatment, and will certainly lose his hair for a terrible reason, so maybe you will forgive me if I mistake or lose a little bit some of what this conversation is all about...thanks..) ...But Poser Characters having "basically" no hair is something i am not comfortable , just about how they sem to want rpresent humans: With no hair...some before, tried to present "clean people_white, of course _ with skin-heads, as in Poser. They failed. They were the European nazis. USA help us to get rid of skin-headed anti-natural imbeciles _ hair is like grass, it grows again, like in the holly Nature, that we destroy more and more. This has nothing to do with any kind of stupid idea that Renderosity would have become "Stalinozity". It has something to do with making my point and saying that if Poser was great, it would present the basic human (male or female WITH HAIR, and not bald. This is only a detail, but it is to make you guys think that even Bryce now, and even the old version, had grass and trees in its lanscapes. I just wanted to mean that hair, even long for men, is as natural AS THE GRASS GROWING EVEN AFTER HAVING CUT IT, AND EVEN UNDER TONS OF CONCRETE. _Nobody need to be a skin-head to have a clean mind. I have long hair, and my hair is clean. _I am sorry for those who readthis and lose their hair for some health ofr hormonal reasons, I feel really sorry for these ones. _Just wanted to delire a little bit to unstres everyone here and repeat that you are not here on Stalinozity, but on Renderosity. Making my point and disgress from theconversation with the "hair-thing" is just that I think that Poser Company and Poser stuff shoul respect the Reality a little bit more, and if they want "realistic" rendering, first they should represent humans with hair. Not bald. Because it's a fact that it is the realistic true Reality. Sorry for the skin-heads guys. But they aren't clean when they shave it, and they are not going to change the Nature...(PLease don't tell me that it is a buddhist "wise attitude", don't give me this joke. Theseguys have no b..ls unless they need to be many of them to be able to aggress you or me. They are big Girls. They go to Sports not for the beauty of the match, but for clashes and fight the other camp, which is "foreigner" they are just arrogant volontary bald ignorant drunkards. They are never going to win. (Oh, yes, maybe with Mr. President Beesh...they would try..., because "Mr. Beesh wouldn't do nothing against hooligans. He's one !). Let you hair grow if you're lucky enough to get any ! God bless America with long hair and please, want to keep freedom here ! (Yeah ! Let's grow our brains too ! Poser-Mannequins need to phone Home to get their human hair back, they have enough to look like Barbie-Puppets. Sorry for the poor lost female H..gs and the big shaved Big Girls nazis Boys. (just saw the Pser stuff banner with their bald female puppets and stuff on top of my Renderosity page and ..it just got me on my nerves...Sorry. Nobody can like Everything. I am confused to have disturbed this serious conversation about "anonymous commitee" (who invented this stupid thing ?) and any opportunity of "Stalinozity" which is a total delire...but I don't know what the heck you're talking about ...!!! ..JUST AGAIN: DON'T FORGET SORRY IF I WAS "OUT" OF THE SUBJECT...But I think the real Stalinism would be to create 20 millions forums for anything that has nothing to do with art, OR ART-RELATED, which doesn't excluses free=expression about cartons,pix about politics. Okay ! I said I was sorry about that if out of subject and out of "tune"! ...though I don' think my political cartoons, pix and comments are sung out of tune or are "out of time".. Salut and "Bonsoir chez vous !" F' get it... Alf (liftan)

~sigh~ I doubt the committee will go through every gallery of every artist - too time consuming. While I can understand a commitee choosing, I have to say that in general any administration will hear only fromthose who are unhappy - so byt hat regards for all the messages you received of those yunhappy with the community choosing the artists - there were probably 10x's as many who liked it the way it was and so saw no reason to say anything. As for the outcry when Legume was chosen artist of the month - that is pathetic. An Artist of teh month dpoesn't have to be the person with the best postworked hair or whose work follows such a distinct pattern that you know what it looks like wihtout opening the large image. An artist of the month could/should be that artist which makes the most impact for that month, Legume made an impact - no doubt about it. But somehow I doubt that the most controversial artists will even be considered anymore. There is the magazine now and all the new site vistors it will generate and no one wants to give them the wrong impression. ~sigh~

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Well I for one wont be voting for Aom anymore. I have no idea what the PTB are smoking, damn ! How many members are on this commity? Thats how many tastes will be representative of this community. We all have biases on what we like, by restricting the choices to a few styles you are keeping some really good artists from being chosen. What happens if no one on your Panel likes the work of Gevidal or Curio or Whoever? Then that person will automatically be out of the running for AOM. Not to mention if an artist doesnt get along with some of the paanel, or is controversial. This is a terrible decision and makes me wonder just WTF you people are thinking. Is everyone on your Committe going to visit every gallery and view every image? Once again, a wonderful effort at pissing people off and taking away artists choices.

liftan - I don't understand what you are talking about? As for Bald Men my husband shaves his head - his most definitely NOT a neonazi either! He is simply a young man who is losing his hair and so he shaves it - regularly - when he shaves his face (minus mustache and goatee) so his head is indeed smoothly shaven. This does NOT make hima neo nazi or whatever you are choosing to label. Since IU love and adore him my men tend to be bald when I create them. So again not sure what your point there was.

3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo

Well Ron I wouldnt worry too much, after this year Im sure they will go back to open catagories each month and Only Poser users will be Artist of the Month. Does the Brick your refering to in your statement look like a pink pony? It seems to me that they changed the rules for the contest strictly to insure that an artist like Legume can never get picked again. Seems that pink pony was sooooo Powerful that it changed AOM.

Just thought I'd mention that there has been very little response in this thread to Audre's suggestion in her post #37 of a concurrent MOM and her subsequent request in post #48 for feedback. What are the chances of focusing some of this discussion on that for a while? If it looks as though folks are more interested in rehashing the AOM situation and not even mentioning, much less supporting, the MOM, seems likely to me that acknowledging artists by purely popular vote won't ever come to pass. brand-new mod retreating now to her own forum

actually i am working on an 'introduction' to the system which will address some of the questions/concerns posted here. just not quite ready as i've gotten other fires to put out and will proabably need a bit more time to get it posted for you. i would like some discussion on the MOM issue though... as it truly IS what the AOM used to be? seems to me this ought to satisfy those members who wish to have a popular vote? thanks

Actually I never liked the idea of an AOM, nor do I like the MOM either. Why is it necessary to turn the membership against eachother every month in these silly competitions that don't mean anything anyway? While I'm sure it's an honor to the one chosen, the ones that aren't are sorely disappointed and thus we get days of name calling, finger pointing, allegations of corruption from the supporters of those that "lose" and for what? So some person can be king of the hill for a month while the 79,999 other people worship his/her greatness, even though some may be far greater, but not as well known. We all come from different perspectives. I doubt no two people out of that 80,000 has the exact same list of favorite artists. Sure, some may match, but others won't. So how can it be fair in any aspect to pick one person to be crowned with an honor that is deserved by hundreds or even thousands.

Instead of all this fuss about AoM and MoM, I think it would be much more fair and helpful to have an artist showcase gallery where each artist could submit what they consider their best work or the work that best represents what they do. Have it random so that each time people go into it, they see different artists. This way people can make their own minds up about who best suits their idea of art. Wouldn't this be much more fair than picking out some person that you will never get a consensus on anyway?

All I know is competition seems to be tearing this place apart. If it's not the AoM, it's the Hot20, not to mention best ranked, most viewed, most commented, best seller, how many views next to you, how many comments, how many ponies in a picture. Okay, scratch the last one, but there is enough competition on here to choke an artist's creative vision already, so why perpetuate it with more? All it seems to do is enflame the membership.

I tend to agree with ShadowWind.... see post #13. Just to take it a little further, how about a contest for favorite admin, or favorite mod, or favorite beta tester..... etc. You get my drift. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and some people are driven by competition..... look at all the polling for Hot20 there have been. I think it's better to keep the competiions to a minimum and concentrate more on the greatest asset (sp?) you have here which is information sharing and learning.

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

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Ok, I admit, I didn't read the whole thread but I am happy with the way AOM is voted for now, and that there is a committee. Why? Well, I just did a simple little search on Google.com, searched the usenet newsgroups. Interesting stuff about Renderosity, especially at alt.slack.

Yeah, Papu, that's real interesting. Me asking my pals at alt.slack to vote for me, just like folks do in the chat rooms and IMs here at Renderosity. How sneaky of me to ask my fellow SubGeniuses to vote for my art. And I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that most of them are big fans of my artwork, which has been published in their magazines for the last ten years. Yes kids, that's my big sin, having fans of my artwork outside this site, and asking them for their support when I have an opportunity to be recognized for my work. Not that it mattered. I'd have won anyway. The was a large enough contingent of NON-SubGenius artists who voted for me on the backlash ticket, people who understood what the Magic Pink Pony was all about; . By the time the SubGeniuses got involved, I'd already been voted into most of the Poser Hot 20 spots by the "Joke Patrol". The SubGeniuses just made sure it was a landslide ;)

Hmm, not sure 'bout this, ShadowWind, okay, I never took these things too serious anyway and under the conditions now... .... can't care less to know whom some anonymous folks consider AOM. shrug But then, I don't think that all these Hot 20, AOM or what ever, was necessarily a bad thing. A professional artist has to find ways to get the attention of a large audience. So now here * is* a large audience and a good opportunity to practice this important skill. For the 79999 other artist it may be a food of tought and they may learn a lot about what the AOM did better to get attention. For the observer it was an additional joy to see how artists dealt with this difficult task. And maybe one shouldn't be that negative about arguments and fuss. I think artists like Picasso, Schiller, Brecht, Kollwitz... never would had done art if there wasn't the need to express a controversial viewpoint or to develop new way of artistic expression. They caused a lot of fuss and argueing, but I wont miss it, think about how miserable life would be w/o them. :) On the other side see how "art" looks like in totalitarian systems, with anonymous committees and just one viewpoint that is allowed to express. I don't think it's the competition that is "tearing this place apart" it's rather the inability to accept new points of view, the lack of tolerance and the wish to impose the artist's will and to create a kind of Disneyland instead of a place where art can freely thrive and breath. Oh, and Papu, just FYI, the AOM is still voted by members, so I don't think this new way will solve your problem. :) cheer and have a nice weekend.

zardoz, "solve my problem"? hehheh - - - Legume, ok, you had your month, the "SubGenii" had their month (or 2) .... but why overdo it? Let the "PINK BOYS" have a chance too, my dears... ;)

Ahhh, the Pink Boys can HAVE the AOM. I've had my way with it, and now all I want is a good taco.

It seems fairly common sense to me, that the reason for this move is to prevent AOM, (something that should be considered a fairly high accolade for actual 'ability/talent/skill/achievement' etc on the site, and not based on who has done the most networking, arse sniffing or controversy raising or attempted to be 'subversive' that week prior to nomination) becoming an embarrasment because of lack of any visable skill or just a popularity contest. I would think it prudent to reassure the neurotic populance that the 'commitee' is surely made up of an un biased, critical group rather than admin etc!? And I think publishing a mission statement as mentioned above would be a good idea, if only to have it in 'writing' what they are about, and to what standards they are selecting!? Otherwise, just scrap it and then nobody can whine about it any more!? ;)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

Adam, I respect your work and your opinion, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I hope I didnt come off in my post as whining, however I have a big problem with this decision and Ill tell you why. It seems everytime I turn around something else is being taken away from the members here lately. I used to frequent a few of the forums, I liked C&D because it seemed to be a free area where members could let it all hang out. I never got into any flame wars or anything, but thought it was a cool place to spend some time, now its gone. I started going to OT and found it to be pretty cool too for about a minute lol. I posted a topic with what I thought to be a simple question, Why a decision was made to suspend a member. I worded in plesantly and without malice, I just wanted to know why. The thread was moved then locked. Well that pretty much ended the forums for me, IB is leaving the tavern whats left? If I cant ask questions and speak my mind in a civil way then they arent for me.I figured no prob, Ill just stick with the gallerys right? Vote for AOM as always, nominate who I think is deserving( not that I think Im always right lol), it was a fun thing to do and feel as if I was in a small way contributing to the community. Now thats gone. So really all I can get from here now are the gallerys themselves. Which isnt at all bad 8-). But it really sucks that one more thing has been taken away from the membership of this site and been put in the hands of powers unknown.You know I found some very good artists checking out the gallerys of the artists up for nomination for AOM, now the most I can discover are the ones up for it.Peace

No Spirit, you didnt come over as whining. In truth I didn't read ALL the posts, getting the general drift from the first few. :) I agree with much of what you said actually, I feel/felt very much the same about the loss of things like C&D, and now its back with a different name anyway. I think a lot of decisions are made to try and appease the vocal few at any given time (or through constant requests) which will inevitably upset 'the others' who liked it the other way. And I don't think all recent decisions have been thought through as well as they might, but given the size of the community here, as well as the mentality/age/experience of quite a few members (some old, most new), giving the user base too much freedom is dangerous since they abuse or mishandle it anyway. Everywhere has to have a standard, and from what I feel and understand, that has nothing to do with 'Vicky in armour OR pink ponies' - but if either of those is executed really well, then maybe they deserve a shot at AOM!? I don't know why the Legume issue keeps coming up either, sure he made a stir, turned some heads and upset a few people with his statements,. I am neither impressed OR offended. If he or someone like him makes enough impression, and shows a dexterity, I am sure they are in with an equal chance of aquiring AOM. As for whether it will work or not is unknown. There will never be a fully satisfied user base here at any time, but at least, given the size and potential of this site, lets have somone represent it with an aptitude for their chosen categories rather than this weeks most 'popular' member or 'the only one of 6 members that uses that software that someone had heard of before' :)

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

Attached Link: http://foolspress.com/gallery/gallery.html

I've read all the posts on this topic and have considered them carefully, and after all this, my question is: Can we have more AOM nominees who are Poser artists that make pictures solely of naked women with improbably huge, gravity-defying breasts, wielding swords that are too ungainly and too decorated to ever be used in combat? Thank you.

That's what AOM is REALLY about after all! ;D JK

Adam Benton | www.kromekat.com

LOL. I initially misread that as: Can we have more AOM nominees who are Poser artists that make pictures solely of naked women with improbably huge, gravity-defying breasts, that are too ungainly and too decorated to ever be used in combat?

How about: "Can we have more AOM nominees who are Poser artists with improbably huge, gravity defying breasts, that are are too ungainly and too decorated ever to be used in combat?" Regards- Lemurtek

Attached Link: http://foolspress.com/gallery/gallery.html

I can't help it if you've never seen breasts used in combat. Trust me, on the right woman, they are devastating. Me, I just use mine to tap out Morse code.

You're absolutely right, Lilith! After all, isn't that what torpedo bras were invented for?