I have been trying to d/l some items and kept getting a time-out. When I asked about it I'm told I'm d/l at the wrong time of day. Now I go to the site and what do I see? A note that basically says don't d/l everything at once give others a chance, it will still be here. Well, not if your subscription runs out while you are trying to d/l stuff. If you charge for a d/l site guys/gals, get your server together so your customers can get the d/l before their sub runs out. I am on fast dsl, and I have not had this problem with other sites, so don't tell me to talk to my isp. Frustrating, but I won't worry about it since I won't be renewing. Marque

Here is what it says "Don't forget that after we update the subscription site there are many, many people trying to download. It may temporarily slow down (no more than 24 hours on average) the site. So after an update please try to not download everything at once and give everyone a chance to get the content. We promise it isn't going anywhere. Thanks!" Bad news if you are paying to be there. It may be there but I won't. Marque

Yes Marque it is best to wait a day or two because as soon as the update has been announced then everyone and their great grandmother try to download so I usually DL either late at night, early in the morning or I give it a few days but to not renew my subscription??? Some of the best stuff in the Poser world Remember Patience is a virtue especially at PWFW

You might as well PAY attention, because you can't afford FREE speech

To bad that you have such trouble. I can't complain about their download speed. But I'm in Germany and download at a time when the whole US is comfortable asleep.

But maybe I won't renew my Renderosity subscribtion, this site is f***ing slow.

Marque we seem to have had this conversation before in another thread, what does worry me though is you seem quite happy to post this to the thousands at Renderosity but never mail me about the problem nor reply to me in the previous thread. There has just been an update and like the message says it gets clogged then because everyone is dloading, and, yes you pay Marque, but its simple if we double the bandwidth we have to double the cost of joining, T1's cost $12000 a year to run, and trust me we add them WHEN EVER we can........Steve

As for my own two pence... I'm sorry but we are not responsible for individual cases like yours (majority doesn't share them) and no matter how unproffesional it may sound..you ARE a big whinner and someone who just never pays attention to what he reads as he should! You simply choose to ignore the fact that other members don't have the same problems YOU have at all times and just prefer to put the blame on us! Read all the previous threads you've started Marque on this same subject..you'll see what I mean! Maybe PWFW is just not cut for you after all!! Because Marque.. if you just spared a couple of minutes to think about HOW much worth's you get each time with your subscription fee, which would be a fragment of the time you spend enjoying sooo much complaining... you might see the true balance of the scales! Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

Funny that Marque, the note I recall being posted was somewhat more involved than that and Allen went some way to explaining some of the problems they were having. I guess you must have missed that huh?

Oh good, a new update! Thanks. :-)

My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice!

I have not only emailed the person who I thought ran it, Alan Harkelrod or what ever his name is...but I have called as well...and was told to choose a different time to d/l. I am up most of the night, and have tried at ALL times of the day and night. I am a female Petunia, not a male thank you. And I am not out to cause hurt to anyone, just frustrated that emails and phone calls don't do any good and I feel I wasted my money. I took that off the site itself this morning Questor. I'm not telling anyone else not to subscribe, and I probably shouldn't have posted it here, was just frustrated that I paid for something and was not able to get it. Marque

And if I'm the only one having this problem why would there be something posted on the site about it? Strange, that you would post that just for me? You say I'm someone who wants to hurt Poserworld, but I see your comments about me being a whiner more of an attack, and I'm sorry you feel that way. Marque

Erm, at the risk of pointing out the blindingly obvious, I don't think anyone has ever said it is just you. Rena and Steve have never to my knowledge used less than plural when describing your situation and the "majority" have no problems. Some people find different times to be better. One or two have what seems like regular problems like one chap in France who gets a corrupted file now and again for no apparent reason. So no Marque you aren't unique, nobody said you were. The post from Allen was put into the forums at my request to Allen when I explained the problems you were having. I presume Steve or Rena had also talked to him about this. As to where or when you took that information, there is a detailed post from Allen regarding Poserworld and it's current condition. This includes information that I thought was quite valid considering your "continual" problem and what is happening with Poserworld servers and lines in the near future. Perhaps quoting this upgrade information as well as your complaint would have softened the "I'm not happy because" with a "but..." Hmm? Never mind. You will do what you want, I have no doubt of that, but in your anger you missed some important information that may well have been extremely relevant to your situation. Never mind though, neh? :)

Well, I for myself have subscribed recently. I had problems with the downloads shortly after the update, but two day later, the download speed was very good. I got most of the clothes, some szenes and all went smoothly down the wire. I have DSL, but I do not use any mass downloader and I never load more then two pieces at a time as an absolute maximum. No idea where your problems come from, Marque, but the site is not too slow.

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori. 

I have been staying away from the forums here lately, but in defense of PWFW for any potential members that read this and might not subscribe because of it, I have never had any problem. And I DID renew my subscription. I am on a measly dial-up due to living in the middle of nowhere, and although the site has been slow, I have not had a problem downloading anything. The only thing I don't like is having to put my uname/pass in all the time, but like I said, I am on a dial up and some of the files are large, and they are only trying to be secure. The money I spent on my original subscription and my renewal has been well worth it. Just my $.02 Angela

I am new to PoserWorld Paid...and I have been very happy with them. I have dsl and downloads happen before I know it. Marque,what service provider are you using? If it's AOL you might want to use the Windows explorer that came with windows once you are connected and download from explorer and not aol.

I have to stick up for Rena and Steve here. I downloaded the entire update in less than a half hour. I have a DSL line and I don't use any prohibited downloading utilities. Sure I have a file or two hang up every once in a while, but I just click on it again and it usually downloads fine on the second try. I can understand the frustration some people must feel, but it aint everyone by a long shot. No doubt that everything downloads faster a day or two after the updates come out, sometime I wait but I usually get them right away. No problems here, Poserworld is one of the best deals on the web IMHO.

Hmph... I must say I've never had much trouble with download speeds, even when I was on dial-up. The one time a d/l was slow I checked here and found that they'd just announced an update. So I waited and got the file the next day. No problem.

I have an incrediably slow DSL line -- how slow? I never could download PSP 7, even breaking up the DLs--and I think I've had one timeout at PWFW. That's all. Yeah, it takes awhile, I expect that now. But sometimes I can download right away. If you have slow connections, then you budget your time with PWFW. That's all. Maybe one thing gets downloaded at a time. It's tough when the updates are huge like the last one. I don't think I ever got everything from that. But it's only tough on instant gratification. I've downloaded practically the whole site and I joined--when?-- about 4 months ago. Where I have probs is with the freebies-- sometimes I miss them-- sob, I missed the Andalucian dress. I think the decision whether one wants to budget their time, is the important decision to make in whether to continue a subscription to PWFW. And, yeah, it nowhere near as slow as Renderocity showing one picture in the galleries. Emily

You can count me as another happy subscriber and I will definitely be renewing. I have no problems whatsoever with downloading anything from the site. Even if I should incur some in the future, I feel the products available at this site far outweigh any slight inconvenience in being unable to download instantaneously. Hats off to Steve and Rena for the tremendous job they do in providing fresh content on a very regular basis =)

I have regular internet telephone line and 56 k modem .After one year,i can say that within the week after updates i have always dloaded the items i want(and we have full choice)without problem.Big file just demand patience:one file after another.I am a satisfacted user and yesterday i renew my suscription.Thanks

And I am not out to cause hurt to anyone, just frustrated that emails and phone calls don't do any good and I feel I wasted my money.<< Well, you might not have meant to cause hurt, but you did. A statment like that spewed forth to thousands of readers who don't know you might think twice before they subscribe. And they would be missing out on a wonderful service for a great price. I might ask why you might not have posted this in the forums over at Poserworld or emailed Steve and Rena first, instead of Allen, since it would be Steve and Rena that would be responding to any public posting and not Allen. Apparently, Steve and Rena did NOT receive anything from you. Marque, it's not sporting that you brought a problem that you are having with another site over here. It should have remained at Poserworld. That is one of the reasons that they have forums for subscribers I suspect, so we can vent and get in touch with Rena and Steve...AFTER we have tried the "correct" avenues in trying to resolve the problem with them. Bad form, I must say. As far as wasting your money...how can you sit there and make such a statement just because you could not get one upload exactly when you wanted it?? Does that mean that all of the other product that you have received since your tenure as a subscriber wasn't worth at THE VERY LEAST the amount of your subscription? In closing I will say that I'm on cable modem...I've not had any problems getting any files as of yet, and I've been a subscriber for two years now. If it's slow and I don't have time then I just wait until later. It's not any different then going to any other online store and trying to download something...sometimes they are slow. Sometimes the whole freakin' net is so slow that I sit and scream at my computer. Steve and Rena are doing the best they can as fast as they can...connections are expensive...they do have to eat you know. Consider the alternative...if they weren't here, just how much would you be spending on separate items in the marketplace???? And the product just keeps getting better and better :) I'm done, off my soapbox. Thanks for listening. Pendy

I have greatly enjoyed my poserworld sub. The site can be a bit slow now and then. But the content is so worth maybe having to come back a little later (thoughs its rarely that bad)

My sub is about up in a day or two... Can someone lend me $50 so I can renew???? Hey..Steve and Rena...spot me a couple of days til the 10th...its payday then.... As far as downloading--I'm on cable--no problems...it was very slow today, however...4k dl speed..but the update happened...unfortunately, I'll be in the same boat as Marque...my sub will run out before I can download the newest stuff.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=679766

Quoting myself, here; "I remember the subscription preview site being pretty slow when I first checked out PoserWorld, even on DSL. What sold me was the incredible content available to members. Once I subscribed, I was delighted with the speed increase on the actual member's site. As their membership has grown, loading times can drag quite a bit right after an update announcement, but the pages still load in 4-12 seconds (that can SEEM like a long time, but really isn't). Downloading files can drag considerably during those periods, however, mainly because Steve & Rena really don't stint their members on content, and some of the downloads are pretty hefty. I've come to put off downloads until 2:00 am or later, Calif time, and find they go pretty speedily then. Marque, I'm sorry to hear about your connection speed. There are sites that I visit that seem to be beyond some kind of bandwidth "bottleneck" as if some leg of data between us were limited to a slower ldata link. These sites (mostly tech support sites for long-existing companies, it seems) can drive me up the wall, so I can sincerely empathize with your frustration. I can only say that I consider the content at PWFW is good enough that I'd put up with slower download times by a factor of four or even eight times longer and still feel the lifetime membership I bought to be an excellent investment. Since I've gotten Win-XP, I find I can have 2 to 15 IE6 windows open at a time, so I can keep pages loading while I read others. I can normally download two files at a time, or just one if I'm cruising other pages, so I usually just browse the forums while downloading individual files from separate windows. I do agree with moenchen, though, that a "What's New" page with links to all the download pages for the latest update would be a WONDERFUL convenience." Jerry B leather-guy ...Just my 2 cents worth, opposing opinions expected and encouraged...

I think Rena has been under a lot of pressure--with the debate and withdrawal on the Poser list, then the hit here concerning PWFW...then this thread, plus a few others.... maybe its all catching up.... Perhaps its more appropriate, however, for folks unhappy with a service to just bow out...it's your choice...although its a tool for prospective customers to hear all sides and feelings towards pay sites. One thing I've noticed a lot on the internet, the complainers get more air time than the satisfied folks...

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

Rena...I'm renewing when mine runs out g I just LOVE to hear your voice! LMAO

Excuse me again guys, but customer service does NOT mean being a door mat for any "customer" who wishes to spew. As far as I'm concerned, once someone opens up their mouth they're entitled to enjoy the consequences of same...customer or not.

I really didn't consider what I said "spewing", I was upset because I have not been able do download a lot of the stuff from the site. I never said I didn't like the stuff there, and I believe I have subscribed 3 times so far. Some of you are acting like I came in and said horrible things, re-read the post, what I said was in no way as bad as you make it out to be. I did state that I shouldn't have mentioned it here but that didn't seem to stop anyone from jumping on me did it? I had no idea Rena was under any pressure, didn't mean to stress her out. I have seen a few of the posters here say some really terrible things about other sites, and yet they are allowed to voice their opinions, guess I'm not. I apologise to anyone I may have upset with this thread, and that is the end of it. Marque

Marque, it wasn't directed at you, it was directed at individuals (and we all know some) who use "customer service" as an excuse to harass, humiliate and embarass those in "service" positions. I've dealt with the public for more years than I care to remember. Most customers are understanding, fair individuals. But there are always those who think that because they're spending a few dollars it gives them the right to intimidate and manipulate the situation and the "service" personnel. It does not. I admire most of the merchants here and elsewhere, if it were me, there'd be at least one "customer" body drawing flies g One or two more "Rena's" giving them back their own would probably even up the score a little. It just hit a nerve is all, didn't mean for you to think it was directed at you, it wasn't.

I have a problem with Poserworld to... I'm trying to decide if I should just bite the bullet and get the lifetime subscription and be done with it. I'm on cable only download one at a time, and I've not had a problem. I promised on the last threat I wouldn't download right away from now on... umm I lied I had to grab the dress for vic... I did good though only got that and I'll get the rest later. I've never had a download time out on me there. Slow maybe at peak times, but always comes through. And I agree. When you get boot tracks all over you it's time to say something.

A few thoughts... 1) customer service might not mean being a doormat, but calling a cusomer a "whiner" is pretty unprofessional. You can be polite and not be a doormat, that's part of being in business. 2) I am struck again that many folks in the Poser world are in an in between stage - not professional but not casual amatures. 3) Grab something called "flashget". Its a WAY cool tool that will make sure you get the file you want, no matter what. Why do it by hand when there ios a utility?

tbh If I were running a company or the manager of such..if I had a employee that called a customer a "whiner", they'd be walking to the door. It doesnt matter if they are stressed. It doesnt matter if they've had a bad day. Its not appropriate. No way. No shape. No how. Obviously there IS a problem. It may indeed not be the site, it may be a server between the site and the downloader. I myself experience this all the time with brycetech downloads. And my server is not the fault...for every time I can get the file perfectly when someone raises a question. I certainly dont tell a person to quit "whining". but, this whole thing raise an issue that I certainly hope the members here at r'osity will think about. THINK before you speak! Do not post things just cause you are pissed. In the past few weeks, Ive seen people point fingers, put others down, do businesses damage, do personal damage..and more. Just because they dont go get a chill pill or find a better wording for their problem. Step back and think before you blast someone with a problem. Its silly to cause damage to someone for nothing. Eventually, someone will to it to someone who will haul their ass into court for damages! again, a kind caution my friends... BT

Thanks for that post, Brycetech, I'm totally with you. I have often been quite surprised by the unbalanced accusations and hard language in this forum. Just because we are hiding from each other behind computer screens does not mean that we can behave like children here. I try to stay out of threads like this, but I must agree with Brycetech here: Read your posts one more time before you post them, folks, and think about how they might be percieved by others before hitting the Reply button. Marquee might be frustated with download speeds. It is perfectly OK to complain about them, but complains should be dealt with between the concerned parties. When a complaint is posted in a public forum like this, it is not a customer/supplier matter anymore. Then it's public debate. Even if Rena's comment might have been unappropriate in a conversation strictly between a customer and a supplier, I can understand her reply considering the fact that she sees her site being publically accused in a Forum read by thousands. I would have reacted too if it happened to me. But remember that a reply on a public accusation is as public as the accusation itself. And that the people reading it does not always have the full picture of what has happened. I'm sure Steve and Rena does their best to satisfy us all. I have never had any download problems and I'm of course sorry if some people have. You can't always blame the site for download problems, the Internet just don't work that way. If download problem occurs, do a trace route (type ("tracert" and the site name in a DOS window) to pin point the bottle neck. Very often you will find that it is not the site itself, but a node between you and them that are causing the problems. Only the downloader can check this, since the trace must be done from the downloaders end. Only after that you can start questioning the capacity of the site concerned. And if you are to do it publicly: behave. Kelderek (Customer Relationship Management Consultant by profession)

I waited to comment here, because I hate to get involved in things like this because I don't know many of you very well yet. i finally decided that unpopular or not, I'd put in a few words. I see a couple of you beat me to it. First off...one of the things I come here for is to gather info on poser stuff from ppl here who are a lot more advanced than myself. And one of those things is info concerning pay sites..good OR bad. I've been meaning to subscribe to PW..just haven't gotten to it. I probably still will. But C'MON gang...it's obvious from the different threads that have come through here that downloading from there is a problem. At least it's not as good as some other sites. Content may be great...but content doesn't matter if you can't get it. The thing that bothered me in this thread was that when things are rated for us here by the group, we can't expect everyone to agree, so it shouldn't get personal. I didn't care for the name-calling. To call Marque a "whiner" because she isn't happy with the service would be the same as calling all the sudden PW-supporter posters a buncha ass-kissers....uncalled for....just agree to disagree. Obviously Marque is having SOME kinda problem. I learned a long time ago that if I thought a paying customer was a "whiner", I just keep that to myself, share it with another employee maybe, and go on. But to say it right out.....can you say unemployment? And now that I'm owner, it's the same way for my guys, they know better. So I hope Marque(one of the few ppl I've actually gotten to know a lil here, and who was really nice to me) can just work it out with PW(who makes some of the neatest stuff around) and everyone can be friends again. Maybe they can extend her time till she gets her downloads, I dunno. But please...allow for varying views...I need 'em to decide where to spend my Poser-bucks....:) Beav

Marque, you have a really destructive streak in you if you start somthing like this AGAIN..... Sure, right after an update, it's slow, (surprise, surprise!) so I wait till the next day (I just D/Led all the new stuff in a few minutes) and then I get on with life. Try it, you'll like it. Steve and Rena - believe me, just about everyone likes PWFW the way it is. High speed lines are NOT the major issue, content is. I think $50 for a whole year is pretty reasonable, that's a LOT of models and stuff. :o] :] FishNose

Since it looks I am the one on the spot here, just because I was 100% honest stating what I trully think (and the very first to call it an unprofessional attitude - so READ that line of my post once again..) I think I have to clarify a few things once and for all... I don't chew up my words guys! I never did and never will.. especially after the same kind of thread having come up in this forum more than too many times started by Marque herself at all situations! I happen to be an export manager & deals negotiator in real life.. I know when it's time to go on smiling and keep on negotiating with a customer..and when it's time to QUIT smiling and don't give in further an inch at a debate! I do that for life and quite successfully.. and no Ron, no employer has ever showed me the door for this attitude so far! Being under stress "lately"...the understatement of the year! VL grin I am under too much stress at all times, just because once I set a goal I never stop till I achieve it, no matter what it takes out of me, how much hard work, personal negligance,lack of sleep or whatever else.. and I DID set as a goal once the subs site started - even stated so in public - to offer at PWFW the more I can at each time for the low subscription fee, so in the long run each file costs less than a few pennies or as close to a freebie as possible! To do that, I've almost given up my life (not to mention sleep) as it consumes much more than all the reasonable free time I can get, but I don't mind, complain or try to get out of it - it was my personal choice as I love Poser and what I do! So it's only human after all these efforts to react at least like I did, once something has been brought up too many times by the same person who obviously doesn't seem to appreciate a tiny bit any of the positive things before makig another identical post.. Like the fact that Allen is moving the server to his own house for God's sake, just to be able and respond instantly to each problem day and night! Yes Marque, this has been announced to the PWFW private forum and I was expecting you read it more often once as it's the appropriate place to deal with your problems.. Like the fact that every now and then a new T1 is added up to the site.. and we are not just happily enjoying & spending the income of subs as you presume, but spend it and use to improve at all times! Like the fact that each update includes a bundle! I could easily go ahead and post one or two files each time and just have everybody grab them with no downloading problem at all and be happy, while myself a lot less stressed and not overworked.. right? But I don't do that because I happen to value your subscription more than YOU do as it shows in the long run.. Like the fact that me and steve live a continent and an ocean far away from the server itself.. we don't have magic trics to pull off our hats or buttons to push and fix it all miraculously at the instance of your wish.. although we try our hardest even to pull off that at times! Like the fact that we do listen at all times and never ignore your contstructive feedback.. you asked for a what's new page only last week.. you got it on this update so you can access the download pages faster.. you asked for the clothes to be categorized by figure so you can find what you want easier .. .I DID that on my Xmas holiday even though it meant I had to redo most of the pages.. Like the fact that we've given you the choice to put up requests that suit your personal render needs and do our best to fulfill them in the long run.. most of the recent models are what YOU guys have asked for and many more are about to come as they're pending in my wips folder.. Like the fact that on top of all the above I have to fight "secret enemies" around this forum that try to throw us out from any place if possible, even though we never critisized, offended or dealt with how they carry out their own business, but obviously they do care a lot of how we carry out ours and somehow they consider it a threat.. You're all too much well aware on that, especially lately! Bottom line.. sometimes it helps to show a bit of appreciation to the good sides of things and not focus on just the bad ones, or at least try to deal with the bad ones in the proper place without hurting (willingly or unwilling) anybody! Meaning clearly Marque.. that if you are so unhappy with your PWFW subscription you could just go ahead and not renew as you plan instead of shouting it out to the world TOO many times, does it make any sense? I've been around the true business world for too long to detect some fancy suspitions at the back of my mind as to why and how this comes up by you, way too often lately.. please forgive me for that but as I said, I'm only human and one that uses her brain and witts to add up one and one equals two, quite a lot unfortunately! It's like second nature to me to think before hand, of the NOT obvious! I don't believe too much in coincedences, especially at this latest certain time following recent events in this forum... Finally, once I know that I do the best I can within my capabilities to offer my outmost.. I do believe I have earned the right to be totally honest as my own personal compensation! If this is considered and critised as an unprofessional atttitude by some.. well, I'd much rather not be a PRO than someone with double thoughts hidden inside! Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

Hmm...I think I'll just go try out MY connection.... Good luck to all...:) Beav

I am sorry that you seem to be having so much difficulty with PWFW, Marque. Because we are dealing with the vagaries of webdom, and nothing is perfect, I don't mind a bit of a glitch here and there. I feel it's worth the occasional problem to have access to one of the best Poserstuff sources around. I'm very happy I joined and I intend to renew, perhaps for a lifetime sub, if I can afford it when this one is up. Steve and Rena are two of our best, and I'm sure they're doing their utmost to serve the community here. I know they don't need defending from me, but I just had to put my $.02 in this thread.

Well i'm sure glad i don't work in PR if thats how you treat your staff, wouldn't like the bill when one sues you for stress related pent up emotions :o)....we are not talking about a complaint, like a customer standing at the desk, this is more like a customer standing in the mall and shouting i won't buy from XXXX shop, in that case security would excort them out, but in this case everyone gathers around and talks about it :o)......well i've been sat here for 40 minutes composing this and not got very far so i think i better cut it short as i have models to make, and just say, Rena and I are humans we have emotions we don't see members as customers but friends, this may be wrong (or sound cheesy) but thats the way it is, its the personal involvment thats gives it the edge, other wise we may as well be sitting in a cubical rendering micro switches all day :o), Steve

Are you winding us up Ron or have you not read the first post???.....I'm lost as to what to say to be honest, if you can't see this for what it is then theres no point arguing it with you .....Steve

You really need to go back and read some of the posts where I have encouraged people to subscribe. I can not remember all of these "attacks" you say I've made against poserworld. I have mentioned the slow download speeds at the most twice, asking if there was a solution. I am not some secret enemy of poserworld, I hold no animosity to anyone here. I was upset and should not have posted here, I have said that before in this thread, and I even apologised openly in this thread, but the venom still flows. I feel sorry that you feel this way. Marque

I always say, "The customer is always right, unless they're wrong..." and believe me, that's plenty of times the case.

and as the download problems are simply a fact of a highly traffic-ed download site, I'd say blaming the hosts/creators is wrong. (Neverminding that in your particular case Marque, I have only seen complaining and admonishing from you in a few forums on Renderosity). That's not meant as an attack and it's not an extrapolation, that's just what I've seen so it's not my fault for mentioning it. Also, you have to wonder HONESTLY what the motive is to state the problem but then to huffily say 'well anyway, no matter, since I won't be re-subscribing.' That's a question for you Marque, to honestly explore because it's very passive aggressive and most of your posts turn around this way.

I don't say any of this because I think Marque or anyone is a bad person. Who am I? But clearly people don't know or have a skewed idea of how the internet works (in terms of bandwidth and bottlenecking) and it's this misinformation really that caused the frustration in the first place. But to turn the statement into a kind of "So There... nanny nanny nanny" just is whiny actually and speaks to some motive other than rectifying the situation.

Well, I personally don't mind slow download times on release days because I understand the realities of doing business on the Internet. Nothing says I have to get an item the day of release, and I am SURE that if I just HAD TO HAVE IT and couldn't get it that Steve and Rena would fix me up. I have never had any problems getting an issue resolved at Poserworld.

Why can't we all be friends? I love coming to this site because of the creative people and incredible products. The things you learn here and PoserWorld, RDNA, etc. you can't get support for any kind of product anywhere in the World. Think about this...if everyone said screw it...no more Poser stuff... were would you be...Fked...and if you don't have customers...were would you be ...Fked.. Bottom line working together makes more creativity!

Yes Ron..I can have a productive conversation. Like the fact that 1000 members adding just ONE request per person ends up to 1000 models.. you had two of your personal requests created so far as you've admited, and yet you still fell not well served but ignored. :o) You mention the fact that we broker in the marketplace.. have you noticed those are all items that have been made available to PWFW long time ago? NOTHING new or that we haven't shared with the rest of you first? Why? simply because we buy stuff from the store ourselves too and we just try to keep our credit cards bills low so we broker a few of our items and use instore credit to purchase new items.. :o) Would you rather see us broker the best of stuff there and keep them away from PWFW? That would be indeed some true merchant attitude and NOT the one of friends! VL grin Finally you mention I'm not a diplomat. Ask people around Ron.. ones that know me for years, a lot longer than our own recent acquaintance and you'll get your fair and accurate answer! :o) I'm just NOT a diplomat to something being discussed over and over again and again and again as if nobody listens! There's no ground of diplomacy left anymore in such a case... and I'm sorry, I won't carry on further as my time is limited and I 'd much rather consume it in "constructive" things than arguing pointlessly around here, with you, Marque OR anybody else! :o) Rena PS: Thanks for letting me know though the way you see us.. I'll keep that in mind next time we decide on our subscription fee.. since we "ARE" merchants and not sentimental poser fools, maybe a revision of policy should be due soon! VL sad grin

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

Busy for YOU Ron.. not my personal pleasure! Is that poor customer service too? VL grin Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

I can't believe some of these people! I'm not a subscriber to PWFW site, but I've thought about it. And I can tell you for one that I would not be discouraged by this thread from getting one. In fact, I think its encouraging. I can see that Rena is a very real, honest person. I don't see why it has to be repeatedly brought up that 'well, if you were in customer service and you did that, you'd get fired.'... it doesn't matter to me. I'd rather deal with someone who is very real and personable then some blank-faced customer service rep who lies behind a smile. If I were to subscribe to this site, I wouldn't see it as a business ANYWAYS. Because I get the impression that its not really supposed to be. It seems to me to be more like a community that you make a donation to in order to keep it in existance! And if someone repeatedly complained about one aspect of it in public and just wouldn't let it die, I wouldn't blame the manager for feeling hurt and speaking her mind. Thats much more of a community attitude then a business attitude. And I think its a more comfortable way to be. Thats my two cents as an outsider in all of this.

"If I were running a company or the manager of such..if I had a employee that called a customer a "whiner", they'd be walking to the door. It doesnt matter if they are stressed. It doesnt matter if they've had a bad day. Its not appropriate. No way. No shape. No how."

Actually, if you deal with customers day in and day out, it can get you to the point where calling someone a whiner is theraputic. ;)

This thread hasn't changed my mind about wanting to subscribe, I'm just waiting for the right time financially for me.

But the Customer is not always right. Nor does the customer always deserved to be treated like royalty simply because they are spending money.
My business is quite different than a subscription site but quite frankly I've put up with so much crap from people who feel I owe them something that the term "customer" has come to mean "lowest form of life" at times. It happens, it's a fact and if you get stepped on often enough you either have to step back or go nuts. Just yesterday I told off one moron. Customer service, heck, I didn't deserve the crap and I would have applauded any employee who did the same.

Chalk this thread up to frustration and stress and it's really not so bad. Marque shouldn't be bashed, especially after the numerous appologies and neither should Rena or Steve. Both sides appeared to have a right to their actions/opinions.

...... Kendra

Yes Ron, Rena's words are here for all to see, as are those of other people. You go ahead and point people to this thread, and once they've read it they can back browse through the forum and see what else has been said. A simple search on Poserworld, Rena, SteveShanks, Marque, Ronknights, etc etc will give them a very good basis for judgement I think. I've sat here for a couple of hours writing and rewriting different replies and responses, points of views and all sorts of waffle. Paragraphs of it. Pages of it, my keyboard is smoking from the work it's had to do, the keys melting. But, there's one thing. Really one thing I just have to say. Those blasted little faces are bugging the living hell out of me. Who's braindead idea was it to introduce those to the Poser forum and can I PLEASE kill them slowly?

LOL @ Questor!!!! I've been thinking the same thing myself! Of course I was never a big fan of Smiley either, and his various incarnations

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

E-mail | Renderosity Homepage | Renderosity Store | RDNA Store

I think the little faces started in the OT forum, but have spread to the rest of Renderosity. And of course there's always one or two people who HAVE to use one in every single message! They're driving me up the wall too, I think they're the dumbest thing ever. Call me a purist, but my little asci smiley faces are just fine! :) See? SEE??

Okay, Ron...this started out as a thread about Marque and you have managed to make it about you and your grievances with PWFW...interesting. Seems you have some issues with PWFW...perhaps in the forum over there would be more appropriate, instead of starting another "griping" session about a different site..use their forum that's what it's for. Shame on YOU Ron. I'm with Kendra on this one. No one should be bashed. Actually this thread should have never appeared here. Marque, I'm sorry you are having download problems. Other then that, has everything been okay with your subscription? What updates have you not gotten, what product? I'm sure Steve and Rena will help you if you just let them know. I don't know what other steps you have taken to insure that it is the server at PWFW and not a bottleneck between your isp and them. It's worth a try :) Rena and Steve. Thank you for your hardwork. I love both of you...I truly do. What you have done for the community and what you are now doing is a wonderful thing. I understand the frustration, and the embarassement that occurs when people post things before they think (and sometimes even after they think) and do not post in the appropriate forums or private mailings. Too much of that goes on. The internet has made large egos bigger and people unafraid to act in a manner that would be inappropriate if it were "real life". I probably wouldn't have called Marque a "whiner"...at least not here. Good customer service? Probably not. But you are frustrated and Marque is frustrated, so you both have inappropriate postings. It happens, you are only human. I do not think of PWFW as another Marketplace. I think of them as another community. I enjoy it over there, when I have the time to visit. I find Rena and Steve much more approachable then any other community with a store and I like that. I like that they think of it as friends and not a store. That's a good thing. Rena and Steve don't have to kiss my butt..I do expect them to be courteous yes...as long as I am courteous to them. But when I start consistently complaining (whining) about something that they have no control over, and think I have the right to tell them how to run their business (because I assume that apparently I know all of the ends and outs that it takes to do what they do of course) and how to spend their money..and think I have the right to tell them what they can and cannot post because they just happen to have a subscription site...and then I post my grievances in a public forum that isn't even on their site. Yeah I would expect to get a little bit of heat. You bet. And this would go for any merchant...not just PWFW, not just Marque and Ron et al.... Personally I think this thread should be locked. Nothing really useful going on here anymore. Or ever for that matter. Pendarian

Hi, Rene and Steve have decided to run Poserworld on a few ideas. Lower cost vs More T1 lines Transpancy on opperations vs Security and critizie (Ex. No comment on Poser 5) Showing a human face vs Showing human failurs of not working 48 hours a day and stasifing everyone Ranting about problems vs Ignoring issues I choose to join Poserworld (under my real name) and am very happy. Needing to save money I was thinking about dropping the account and joining up six months or a year later. But now I will be joining longer. Why? Rene's rant. It shows how many problems she has and I want to support her. They are running a wonderful company and it seems to be working. Thanks!

Just to add my tuppence... I will definitely be renewing my PW subscription...and I have no complaints about the download speeds or the site. I have a pathetic 56k dial up connection, and it all works great for me. Being in a different time zone makes a big difference, perhaps. Not to mention the sheer quality and quantity of what I'm downloading. Steve and Rena have my unconditional support. Ron, there's a difference between customer service and being a doormat. As someone who works in customer service, I have to tell you there are times when "the customer is always right" simply isn't true, and there are times when being blunt saves a lot of future headaches. When people interact away from the workplace, with people who might be customers of the company they work for, they are not expected to stay in "work mode" all the time. Rena spoke for herself, as a human being, and as a member of this community, she has as much right to do so as anyone else here.

"Since it looks I am the one on the spot here, just because I was 100% honest stating what I trully think (and the very first to call it an unprofessional attitude - so READ that line of my post once again..)"

I am not really sure why that is supposed to excuse something - if I was to say "I know this is a copyright violation but..." would that matter.

OK, so you know it's unprofessional... and so do many of us. Glad we agree :)

"Remember that some people will read this thread and think "I'll take my business elsewhere.""

I have been on the cusp of hooking up with PW for a long time - and every time a discussion surfaces here about it I become less and less likely to do it. There have been issues and problems and it seems like in the end it comes down to situation where the people doing the asking get insulted or blown off. Not 100% of the time, but often.

It's too bad that so often with PW and the Poser merchants in general a complaint about a product is taken as an insult to a person.

I have had an eye opening experience with a recent purchase of mine - the vendor is popular and seems to be friends with other vendors and artists, so their products are usually met with great joy when they come out ... but in private responses several of the same people have acknowledged that similar problems are common and  they don't use that vendors product.

Why isn't any of this mentioned publicly? So as not to hurt the vendors feelings or insult them, or hurt the sales because this vendor needs the money. So I guess the consumer is the loser because nothing can be discussed objectively without it seeming like a personal attack.

"PS: Thanks for letting me know though the way you see us.. I'll keep that in mind next time we decide on our subscription fee.. since we "ARE" merchants and not sentimental poser fools, maybe a revision of policy should be due soon! VL sad grin"

And threatened.

So if we aren't nice and quiet and polite the price will go up? All I can say is that I can't imagine depending on PW as a primary source of items if I took a threat like that seriously.

"But the Customer is not always right. Nor does the customer always deserved to be treated like royalty simply because they are spending money."

No one thinks that should have happened, but you can say a lot of things to a customer politely - and you should if it's your business. There is a big difference between "I'm sorry you feel that way, but many of our customers seem satisfied so I think it is best of you don't renew" and calling someone a "whiner".

And I really fail to see how insulting a client is a imperative for good mental health :)

I think the folks at PW are trying to do right by the community, and I am sure for those who can use their products it is a good deal - and I am glad everyone seems to be happy. But i doubt that I would be happy there - and it is discussion in public forums that has let me see that.

"And threatened. " I think that was sarcasm...."And I really fail to see how insulting a client is a imperative for good mental health :)" but its perfectly ok to harm us and our buisness, seems like a double standard, especially in light of your final paragraph :o)...Steve

Well decide on your subscription based on whether the product is right for you, not by what you are reading in this thread or other threads as a perceived lack of customer service. If you do that, then you would have to surmise that the majority of the customers for PWFW are very, very satisfied despite some having slow download times. There are problems everywhere when it comes to downloading on the net, I cannot think of a single online store that does not have those problems. I do not depend on any one store as a primary source. Because frankly, any site for whatever reason could be gone tomorrow. And Soulhuntre, I don't know how long you have been around the 3d community. But Rena and Steve have been "doing right" by the community for a very, very long time. The only reason they decided to go to a subscription site was because bandwidth had become so horribly expensive simply because of the free downloads they used to supply to the whole community. So instead of totally closing up shop as they were going to at first WE the community begged them to stay open any way that they could. I'm not saying that it couldn't have been handled differently because it could have on BOTH sides. This should have never even hit the forums here if all Marque was really looking for was a solution to her problems. And someone is always more then happy to add more negative spins if they have an axe to grind of their own. It's simple...if Marque cannot download what she needs because of the servers, then don't resubscribe. If she finds in her investigation that it is in fact a problem that stems from something other then PWFW server, then she needs to deal with that any way that she can. And then she needs to make that as publically known as she has the fact that she believes it's their servers. But in no way would I make a decision on whether or not to participate in something like what PWFW offers just because of threads around here. I've "known" Rena and Steve for a while now and have seen them handle the volume and the workload as well as they can for what we demand of them. People are louder when they are unhappy then when they are happy when it comes to products. Everyone knows that. Marque did not say she was unhappy with the quality of the products, she's unhappy because the servers at times seem to crawl. Personally, I recommend them. Perhaps you should speak with Rena, Steve or Allen before making a final decision. You've listened to and perhaps even spoken through IMs with various people...perhaps you should also with the PWFW folks. But then again, if you have no use for the products, don't subscribe. Pendarian

Anyone who gets 'discouraged' from subscribing to PWFW because of this kind of thread - boy, you are missing out big! THE REAL ISSUE IS: PWFW HAS GREAT STUFF, WORTH EVERY PENNY IT COSTS - regardless of whether Marque or Ron have some sort of complaint or not, real or exaggerated. I've been a member a couple of months now, and enjoying it all the time - except the first few hours after a big release. Suddenly a thousand members attack the lines and want everything NOW. Then I wait a few hours - and download. Simple as that, see? I mean, geez, this is the web, waiting sometimes, that's life on the web. PWFW, as I understand it, consists of 2 people doing what they love, and do it well (and get better and better all the time, I may add), sharing it with memebers for a decent fee - and that's it. That's PWFW. Along with servers and lines and costs and complaints and 'Oh WHEN am I going to get that pink jacket texture I've wanted for 3 DAYS now???' requests...... And being in different parts of the world, and trying to keep it all together - and trying to go on enjoying it - and I bet, wondering occasionally whether it's worth it...... :o] Ron, that stuff about how PWFW is a business, blah blah, give us a break, OK? And Marque, download the next day, OK? And let's got on with what's fun instead - Poser. OK? :] FishNose I get so TIRED of all of this aggravation and aggression, wind down, people!

If you're running on a Mac, go to www.igetter.net and download their version 1.8 -- works every time! If on a PC, doesn't IE5 support re-starting broken downloads? It used to! Rena and Steve are doing their best, but the server they're on isn't theirs, so do one of the above and leave them alone! Jim Moore

Say what you will, but Renderosity is better than any soap opera. Some people have this one-dimensional quality about them, even before I read their messages I know what they have written. Ok, thats an overstatement, but some pet peeves appear again and again.

My PW subscription is one of the best investments I did ever. Thats all I say about this topic.

@Questor:
You can blame me for the smilies. Like many others who had a suggestion for Renderosity I came to rue it. :P

MadYuri OK, thanks. I'll be visiting you later with two truck batteries, some crocodile clips, lengths of wire, clothes pegs, steel nail pins, a happy meal, two cans of mountain dew, a rubber bung, chains, shackles, tweezers, a thousand fleas and a popcicle stick. G Good idea, poorly implemented. Oh well, I guess that's one of the reasons we can browse with images "off". :)

My last comment would be to agree with the posters just above, that it's a big blow that shouldn't have been. But I would like one thing straightened out for me. I assumed that this being a Poser forum...that ppl would share their experiences with different venders, companies, sites, etc with the rest of us. Both good and bad. Things we could just consider as opinions, and meant to help us out. I'm obviously pitifully uninformed about the synergy between some of the personalities here, histories, etc.... so a lot of this goes right over my head...but... Was I wrong in assuming that we were free to give props to the ones we liked, and say what we found lacking in others without it turning into a big bruhaha?? Frankly, it's what I want and expect out of a discussion forum. BTW..no offense meant to anyone, and I ain't just bein' a wiseass...no underlying meaning...honest..:) Beav

I certainly will be renewing my subscription. Yes, sometimes the downloads are slow. So is most of the internet. I get a download or two going and go do something else; surf, eat, watch a little tv. My life certainly doesn't revolve around my downloads. And Marque, if you aren't going to worry about it, why in the name of anything did you post here?

Beav1 When someone asks for an opinion about something, yes they are entitled to an honest response from the members of the forum as well as the admin and staff. Whether that's good, bad or mediocre feedback. It's all relative and fair. If marque was to post in another thread that she's experienced some difficulty downloading from Poserworld in response to someone saying "is it worth joining" then I see no problem. That's her experience of the site. But, when the same comment is the motivator of multiple threads repeated over a short time when the last one is buried or ignored then one tends to get a little suspicious, especially as it hasn't been brought up in the sub site forums or directly with the people running the place. Bad form all round really. In essence though. People do ask for opinions, this forum is littered with people asking about pworld and many other things and getting feedback, both favourable and not so favourable. That's about it. I question the motives of someone who repeats themselves on a regular basis with criticism and complaint but not someone who gives an honest opinion in response to a question. Other than asking questions and getting feedback, how are you supposed to learn what's good and what's not? So far I have very few complaints about most of the places I visit. They all work very much the same way, sometimes slow, sometimes fast, sometimes not even there. I will almost always go after the people concerned if there's a problem, Rena will attest to that as I've chased her down in the past if I think something is wrong, same with Steve and many other people, but I very rarely take it to a public forum unless repeated attempts at private discussion with them have failed, though I confess I am known in some areas for long and critical posts that are generalised across the board on a variety of subjects. I hold no ill-will towards anyone in this or other threads. Ron I think knows that as I treat him the same everywhere I talk to him, with derision if I think he's being silly and with praise if I think he's doing well. I try to be fair across the board with people and treat everyone pretty much the same except a very select few who have IMO earned my contempt. Who am I to judge? Nobody except an opinionated forumite. But it's my opinion and I will hammer it down someone's throat. [smirk] Now, if you'll all excuse me, I have an appointment with MadYuri. :)

To use your anaology Ron, inappropriate though it may be. If I walk into a car dealership and state from the get go in the lot on a busy day "I'm not going to buy your cars because they really suck, they just don't go fast enough." I'd expect the guy to point me to another garage down the road and get me off the lot as fast as possible. That's real life Ron, not sucking up to everyone because they might have a buck to spend or because you feel the need to ingratiate yourself. If I walk into that same car lot and purchase a car, and find out it won't go faster than 25 mph, I go back to the car lot, get the manager in an office and bitch at him, but I sure as hell won't do it in his front lot on a busy day, and I don't bitch at the salesman in front of customers. If after a while I find that the guy can't repair the speed problem I'll either demand my money back, or, go to another car dealer who can fix the problem. But I don't bitch about it in his car lot on a busy day or at the salesman in front of his customers. If I find that the second car dealer can't fix the car either then I'll scream at the manufacturer because it's obviously their damn fault that the stupid car won't go. But I don't bitch at the first guy in his front lot on a busy day or at the salesman in front of his customers. So, there you go for real life Ron. My real life, not yours, not anyone elses. Same as your real life is yours, not mine, not anyone elses. But we all have different real lives don't we? As to your customer services comments. Well, I'll agree to disagree with you. It's been my experience with this that if you have a troublesome customer you do everything you possibly can to get them the heck out of the way before they upset other people. You don't slime up to them licking their ass, you deal with them firmly and politely if possible. If they're bitching and shouting and getting antsy in your face you deal with them calmly and try to get them to calm down, if they don't and carry on being a pain in the ass then you ask them to leave. But then, staff as well as customers get fair protection here in the UK and it is the right of any service personnel, staff member or customer service councellor to refuse to serve, talk to or even allow in the building an abusive customer. Yes, over here we can have the itinerant escorted out by security or even arrested. So, people tend to be polite in the main, and when they have a complaint they take it up with the management and follow procedure rather than screaming in a busy store in front of other customers. I won't address any of your other comments because quite frankly I have no desire to get into a bitch fest with you though if you really want the gloves off, it can be arranged. :)

Questor just brought up a good point .. Different areas of the country (and the world) have different ways of approaching customer service. My dad has a friend that is a jewelry dealer and he travels all over the country and one thing he said is this, well paraphrashed, :If you use the same approach all around the country you will get middling reactions, If I am really nice in New York they think I am trying to pull something over on them, if I treat people in the midwest the same way as I have to in the South they think I am trying to scam them as well. It is all a matter of location." Just a viewpoint since I doubt I will pop back into this thread.

"And I really fail to see how insulting a client is a imperative for good mental health :)"

Heh, you've obviously never worked in retail. :) Stand behind my counter just one week and you'll see what I see. :)
When I say if you get stepped on often enough to want to step back...I mean I've been stepped on often enough. Often enough to warrent my opinon of customers who walk through my door, leave messes for me to clean up (usually next to a half empty garbage can), are rude and inconsiderate and act like my business is public property and I their own personal servant expected to jump when they snap their fingers.

Oh yes....it's therapy alright. :)

...... Kendra

Steve and Rena: You RULE!! Questor: You hit the nail on the head several times :) (and give Mad Yuri a few bruises for me too! LOL) As far as some other stuff... I'm in retail too and sometimes for the amount of aggravation a customer gives you, it's worth everything to say "There's the door" and mumble to yourself "Good riddance to bad rubbish!!" Sassy

"Own the Day"

*Live*Laugh*Love*Dream*Believe*

DS user since the first alpha :)

Poser user through P5

Ahh, Owww...nooo...don't hurt me...

Well, I did work in retail in a rather large way. I managed a very large chain of stores from the States which were expanded into Canada. I was the Western Canada manager and as the chain was devoted entirely to direct sales on the floor to walk in customers PR and customer relations were very important to the success of the business. To call a customer a whiner because they are frustrated with your service whether it is your fault or not is definitely not a good idea. No matter how many people here may take the side of Steve and Rena they will lose a certain amount of business because of the responses given in this thread to both Marque and Ron. They have been accused of being trouble makers and out to create problems for Steve and Renas business etc. when to any person who would come in here ignorant of the site and what they offer ( and yes, I mean myself as I do not belong to their site and in fact have never been to it as of yet) when reading their posts would think they have a good reason to complain. Reading the responses to their posts from a lot of you I get the feeling (again because I don't know the site and I don't know most of you here other than through reading a few of your posts in various forums) that there is a certain amount of animosity on the behalf of some who are defending Rena and Steve towards Marque and Ron. This is not meant to either defend or persecute anyone here but to point out how things appear to a person reading these posts who has never been involved before the other day in anything in this particular forum (Poser) and the impression that person gets from reading all the posts above. Remember, one unhappy customer will cost a business more revenue than 50 happy customers. The reason being that people will definitely spend more time and effort to let others know their displeasure with a service or company than the 50 happy ones will to let people know of their satisfaction with the same company.

Hmmmm.... well ok.... if you promise not to make any more suggestions like that!! LOL

"Own the Day"

*Live*Laugh*Love*Dream*Believe*

DS user since the first alpha :)

Poser user through P5

I'm 100% sure we will lose members over this thread, i'm also 100% sure we would no matter how we replied. Wasn't that the whole point of it??......Maybe folks will wonder why 2 members feel insulted yet the rest seem happy, most can and will think for themselves (not a dig at you there just a theory)..Steve

steveshanks "And threatened. " I think that was sarcasm...."

To be honest with you, dead honest, I couldn't tell.

steveshanks "but its perfectly ok to harm us and our buisness, seems like a double standard, especially in light of your final paragraph :o)...Steve"

Again, being honest nothing that person said about the site being slow is the issue. It's generally been the tone of the responses. A public complaint is a chance to win people over (not the complainer usually) or drive them away. You can bet potential customers ARE watching.

Besides, several people have mentioned that as a result of this thread they will be joining, so you came out ahead :)

pendarian "Personally, I recommend them. Perhaps you should speak with Rena, Steve or Allen before making a final decision. You've listened to and perhaps even spoken through IMs with various people...perhaps you should also with the PWFW folks. But then again, if you have no use for the products, don't subscribe."

If I had a specific question I absolutely would. Steve in particular seems like a helpful chap. However the reasons for my choice are complex, some having to do with the product itself and some with my opinions on the level of professionalism.

That being said, if I ever see something on PWFW that I absolutely need for a client I might subscribe if one of the vendors I currently use couldn't provide it for me... but I am extremely picky about the fit of the clothing I use so I tend to be very slow to add new vendors to my purchase list.

I always look at the update previews posted here, and I look at the renders with that clothing and I look at the free section at PWFW to keep tabs on it - but I still haven't seen anything that I want to have enough to subscribe, and I won't subscribe "just cause" for the other reasons.

That isn't to say they aren't great people - I don't know them, it's just a business decision.

FishNose "PWFW, as I understand it, consists of 2 people doing what they love, and do it well (and get better and better all the time, I may add), sharing it with memebers for a decent fee - and that's it."

And I think taken as that it is a fine, fine resource! I wish them the best and I am glad they are doing well... I just don't think it fits the needs of those in the professional arena as well.

beav1 "Was I wrong in assuming that we were free to give props to the ones we liked, and say what we found lacking in others without it turning into a big bruhaha?? Frankly, it's what I want and expect out of a discussion forum."

Umm... yes, you're wrong :) You can say a lot of good things, but you will find a distinct lack of discussion of things that are not so good. It tends to be taken personally and run afoul of politics because so many Poser vendors are one person shops.

Soulhuntre.. thanks for the smiles you've brought to my face! Your sense of humor accompanied by Poser clothing history ignorance is indeed unique! Bless you! :o) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

To steve... Drop it buddy.. doesnt take a genius but just a regular forum visitor to understand my motivation at contradicting certain people to this thread as well as the motivations of others Ive been to Poser since 1998.. the only people Ive ever exchanged verbal abutions with all these years, were Ron as the very first in the past few months and Marque in this very thread.. Ron has been around for a very short time.. but archives prove the long list of people hes had serious contradictions with already.. I dont know how long Marque is around.. but her list of complaint posts and contradictions with vendors, programs and services is also quite a long one Statistics speak for themselves.. A special thanks to Renderosity for the archives and database!

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

MadYuri said: Ahh, Owww...nooo...don't hurt me... ----- But, but... hurting you is soooo much fun and for those, those, those.... things! You deserve it. But, I promise to ease off on the torture if you promise not to make a suggestion like that again. :) ***** Soulhuntre said: Umm... yes, you're wrong :) You can say a lot of good things, but you will find a distinct lack of discussion of things that are not so good. It tends to be taken personally and run afoul of politics because so many Poser vendors are one person shops. ---- I disagree with the first sentence because there was a lot of threads here that did discuss bad things about products, but unfortunately the forum for this was deleted and no evidence can be found. Poser forum isn't as popular for complaints as "usually" anything that resembles a complaint gets moved over to another forum. However it is still possible to get honest opinions on a product, people who don't want to post into the forums for fear of retribution from vendors use Instant Messaging (IM) it can be just as effective and more private for voicing an opinion and carries a lot less risk of getting flamed for actually not liking something. I agree totally with the last sentence though.

renapd "Soulhuntre.. thanks for the smiles you've brought to my face! Your sense of humor accompanied by Poser clothing history ignorance is indeed unique! Bless you! :o)"

Well, by all means educate me ... can you clue me in on how "Poser clothing history" is in contradiction with something I said?

In looking at my posts, the only line that could possibly be the one your commenting on is this one...

soulhuntre "And I think taken as that it is a fine, fine resource! I wish them the best and I am glad they are doing well... I just don't think it fits the needs of those in the professional arena as well."

I am not sure how you managed to find reason to attack me from a line that has 3 positive comments in it, one of them wishing you luck. Is it because I don't find the fit of the clothing (what I see from the preview images) to be usable for the work I do? I certainly know others I have corresponded with who agree.

Nothing in my comment indicated that you don't have professional users, I am sure you do... but I doubt the match is as good for them as it is for the hobbyists. I just don't think the fit is there to be honest.

::shrugs:: If that is somehow in conflict with "Poser clothing history" (whatever that is) then I am all ears fro my education.

Personally, I think my post was extremely polite, wished you luck AND mentioned I think many people will benefit from your site. I am not really sure what I can do to keep you from being insulted and insulting except maybe not criticize or give my honest opinion at all...

But then, that might well be the point.

Ah well, not my issue. I am not a subscriber, I won't be one in the future and I will continue to give my opinion on the topic when asked. Once again, best of luck.

First of all..my comment was sincere, not an insult! I did laugh at that line! Honestly! :o) Why I found it so amuzing? There's no other way to respond to a comment aiming at steve that he's not a pro when it's common knowledge he's been one of the very first involved with the subject, if not the very first since Poser3 early days, who's taught so many others! :o) Does this clarify why your post sounded so amuzing to me? :o) Don't jump to conclusions that one wishes to insult you once he's just enjoying a few of your lines and says so! :o) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

To make this more precise! You can call ME an amateur, a lousy renderer, totally untalented, a bitch, a loud mouth..whatever you wish and I might not respond.. BUT to hint steve's work as non pro.. don't expect it to pass by with no comment or a thunder of laughter! :o) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

Well, both would be a fat lie... you and Steve are as pro as they come with a talent that is just awesome! And one of these days I can afford a sub, LOL!!!

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

"And I think taken as that it is a fine, fine resource! I wish them the best and I am glad they are doing well... I just don't think it fits the needs of those in the professional arena as well."... Oh come on Soulhuntre don't take me for an idiot, you compliment with one hand then insult with the other LOL, Renderosity, 3Dcommune and DAZ have no problem with the quality of our items, neither do the Atlanta braves baseball team or many other studios that use our stuff...so yet again we have someone insulting us based on zero knowledge, but thats ok we just have to smile and take it ;o)......Steve

oops :o) neither does most of our members :o) slap on the wrist there folks sorry :o).....Steve, who is not taking this thread serious anymore ;PPPPPPPPPPP

Talking of double standards.. that little devilish whimp inside me just keeps wondering.. "Hello moderators!!! Wake up!" VL grin How come my very own complaint post of last week, titled "I'm no sort of a cattle to put a tag on me" was immediately moved to the News and Contact forum & disappeared from newbies to read, and yet this one still hangs around here? VL mischievous grin Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

LOL buddy! Glad to see we're feeling the very same! Mind reading again! LOL

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

This is pretty amazing. OK, I'll try one more time.

renapd "There's no other way to respond to a comment aiming at steve that he's not a pro when it's common knowledge he's been one of the very first involved with the subject, if not the very first since Poser3 early days, who's taught so many others!"

Funny, I didn't say Steve wasn't a "pro". Since clearly a large (I would hope) part of his income and job involve Poser then I would think he IS a pro :)

What I did say was that in my opinion (I am allowed to have them I think) the fit of much of the clothing simply isn't good enough to use for professional work. Now, clearly all of that is subjective - and I did mention that no doubt you have members who do use the clothing in a professional capacity.

I am allowed an opinion, at least I still think I am. It's hard to tell around here sometimes.

Short of telling you I think all the stuff on PWFW is the best thing ever I don't really know how I can be any nicer. I think it's great stuff for hobbyist use, and no doubt you have some pro's who use it too. From what I can see without joining it simply isn't up to the standards I need.

If that means I am firmly in the minority on how I need things to fit, that's OK too. That doesn't change my opinion.

Your happy with it, Steve is happy with it, your subscribers are happy with it - fine, great, cool - once again I wish you the best.

steveshanks "Oh come on Soulhuntre don't take me for an idiot, you compliment with one hand then insult with the other LOL"

I don't think you're an idiot, and I am completely sincere in both my praise and my critique. I hope it all goes great for you and I am sure your membership is by and large extremely happy. I gave you the compliments I could because when you deserve them then you deserve them and I am trying to make sure I comment ont he good AND the bad.

I was trying to be fair... and all it seems to bring me is insults.

On the other hand I will be honest. I don't think the stuff on PWFW is generally speaking stuff I could use. That's an opinion, and I am allowed it :)

I'm sorry your so insulted by all this, it certainly isn't intended personally. Maybe that is the problem... it seems that it is impossible to be honest about a product here without it being taken as a personal insult on the creator.

I am sure you work hard. I am sure the vast majority of your subscribers are happy. I don't think your the #1 modeler in the Poser community for clothing. I am sorry that insults you.

Now, if I am supposed to just stroke everyone and tell each and every single vendor that all their stuff is perfect and that there isn't any flaw in it at all then .... well, then toss me off the system because I simply won't lie.

Could I just say "I don't like the stuff, don't join!!" and leave it at that? Sure, if I wanted to be a jerk. But I was TRYING to say something positive as well. I suppose if your determined to be offended you can always find something.

As for the Braves and the other studios, great! Good for you! Best of luck to you. Maybe I am simply extremely picky... it's probable. Of course we are also pushing Poser really to the limits in what we do, doing tight close-ups and flybys rendered in Max and so on at HDTV resolutions... so it might be that our environment is extremely demanding ::shrugs:: don't know what to tell you. There are many products for sale here that simply don't hold up in our environment that lots of people seem overjoyed with.

Doesn't change my evaluation, the stuff on PWFW is good, many people like it but it doesn't look like it's good enough for what we do. Once again, an opinion I am allowed to hold and that I will share when appropriate.

If the only type of opinion that won't insult you is a glowing one, then I guess I'll never be anything but a pain in the ass from your POV.

Ron.. I serve under belt punches only to the ones who repeat themselves over and over and over again.. yes, that does make me blow up! :o) If I have fantasies or not about conspiracies behind my back, I also happen to have logs and emails that prove me otherwise but no, I don't plan to make the mistake some good friend of mine did once around this place to post them to prove me right! :o) If you read that thread carefully you'll notice that I've been harmed but have harmed myself NOBODY! ;o) I've jumped on you at he shirt thread simply because you had raised the same issue too many times in too many places and kept blaming me ignoring the fact so many others were using it successfuly and had told you so in the very first thread! Marque did the very same thing, repeating herself and ignoring previous replies to her original complaint! :o) Actually Ron, I think you know better than what you claim as to who I really am and if I know how to apologize.. you have email logs in your inbox I gather to proove that! So do I happen to have yours! :o) What I have to say is very simple but true! You can think of me whatever you wish Ron! Just because you're a PWFW member doesn't give you the right to shut me up as a member of this community whenever I speak up my honest opinion and no, I don't have to bow at whatever you say! And frankly.. I honestly don't give a dime about this thread as it's definately NOT serious anylonger and only makes me laugh at how pathetic we can be sometimes around this place! :o) So feel free to orate as much as you wish from this point on as I won't bother any further to reply or defend myself! :o) Have a wonderful evening tearing off my fleshes if you wish but not at my presence! :o) I'm planning to enjoy Poser instead of politics and silly threads tonight! :o) Enjoy yourselves any way you find suitable! :o) Rena

[[MyGallery] [MyStore]
"Collect moments, not things."

enough already why not take this into an Email flame war and spare the rest of us? will an admin please close this... sigh

Why, may I ask, do Steve and Rena not have the same right to get angry with someone who happens to be a customer? Why should a customer have more rights than the person behind the business?

Something I've had to tell people on occasion, "Have some consideration for my problems and I'll have consideration for yours".

No one should put up with insults and crap and deliberate attempts to undermine their business under the falshood that the "customer is always right" and ones opinion of what customer service should be.
Customer service does not mean being a doormat to the every selfish whim of a "customer".

It's called mutual respect. As a business owner, if I don't get it I'm not likely to give it, no matter how many people think I should be a doormat for them.

I applaud Steve and Rena for not taking this thread seriously anymore. It's beginning to sound like a last word contest.

...... Kendra

Feel free to tell them what you wish Ron we all 3 live in free countries and i'll feel free to tell them my side of the story....Soulhuntre yes i'd rather you'd said "I don't like the stuff, don't join!!" coz the way your putting it its like your twisting what i say like "I don't think your the #1 modeler in the Poser community for clothing. I am sorry that insults you." good i'm glad, i never said or thought i was, i just thought it a little odd that you can express an opinion on our stuff yet you've never used any of it...thats a bit like me saying XXX cars are crap even though i've never driven one ;o).......Steve

steveshanks "i just thought it a little odd that you can express an opinion on our stuff yet you've never used any of it...thats a bit like me saying XXX cars are crap even though i've never driven one"

A fine point. It is possible I am wrong about it for that reason - but I don't think so. The only thing I have to go on are the free items and the renders of the updates that get put up here. I'll have to assume that the renders put up here to advertise the website and the product probably show what it looks like? All I can say is that it doesn't look like it is what I need or could use based on the promotional material you put out.

I am not sure how I can make a choice on a product if NOT by the promotional material from the company that makes and the discussions in forums like this. I would love to have the money to buy things that don't looks like they will suit my needs on the off chance that I am wrong and they do, but I don't have that money.

**steveshanks ** "Soulhuntre yes i'd rather you'd said "I don't like the stuff, don't join!!"

OK, but I think I'll still wind up expanding it a little to say "You might find it a good value, many people do. Unfortunately the products don't seem to be quite what I need to use... but out application is pretty demanding."

Which is basically what I do say.

Will someone PLEASE lock this thread so it can die a merciful death? All this friction can't be a good thing for the community here. :(

Sorry Ron, I've had to join the hundreds of other people on Renderosity that have requested multiple times an "Ignore Ronknights" button. However satisfying it would be to take you apart and deep fry the remains, a close and respected friend has asked that I don't and I will respect their request. For the simple reason that in your puritanical daydream you are unable to see anything beyond the tip of your nose and your own gripes. So as was said somewhere else today, quit yer griping. Kaibach: The reason admin will not close this thread is that it suits their purposes to see someone like Ron continually insult people that the admin here consider to be competition. This thread will remain here, unlocked, undeleted, untouched because their purpose is being served. Ronky is having his day at the soapbox and is insulting two people, and one in particular, that are highly respected in the communities and this is perfect for them, because if Ronky manages to get the combination right Rena might just pack up and leave, which would be perfect for them - oh dear, memories are short, she doesn't do things like that. Then they'd only have the very last in competition to deal with. RuntimeDNA and DAZ3D. Until of course, Curious Labs open their Poser store, then things will get somewhat entertaining. Eventually the rosity admin will have what they consider to be the Renderosity Utopia, a place where they have the controlling fraction of a large market with absolutely nobody going anywhere except their store to buy stuff. Unfortunately, things don't usually work that way, but it'd be a shame to spoil the surprise by telling them that. :) Kendra: I think the answer to that is simple. They're not part of the worship Ronky congregation. As they have not fallen on their faces at his feet to worship his "support" (note he completely disregards over a thousand other people who support them and also aren't worshipped) they must be very bad people. Just like all the other vendors, freestuff contributors and members here who aren't on the Honky Ronky bandwagon and subscribing to the "Hug a tree today" sermons. The desire for acceptance at any cost can sometimes be rather a strange one as the motivations for some actions are not always clear. Also, unbeknownst to the planet at large, these two enthusiastic contributors to the Poser user base are in fact Bill and Hillary Clinton and must act in accordance with certain accepted principles. Meaning they have to take all the abuse thrown at them with a broad smile and a thank you, later I guess Steve will have to have an intern bend over a desk to chop the end off a cigar. I guess in a twisted way you could say that certain people are giving Steve and Rena a "Lewinsky". LOL Anyway, I'm out of here as I have some things to attend to, including the construction of a Mr. Smiley voodoo doll and the consecration of some long and very sharp needles so I can torment the hateful things.

I think my comments have been taken out of context. I am not condoning or condemning anyone. Im not on anyone's side. I was only saying that you dont snap at a customer. Its easy to put someone in their place without snide comment or calling names. Occasionally your temper will get the best of you. Lord knows it has me at times,and later I wish I'd counted to 100 instead of ten before replying. Best way to keep your foot out of your mouth is to re-read what you type before pressing 'reply'. Im in the medical profession. This is a place where people come to you for help..but yet they expect you to fight them to help them. Ive seen some employees lose their temper and curse and ask why they came. Ive seen those same employees fired. I learned long ago, that you can easily make a comment such as "you dont have to be rude, you're refusing, I'll put it in the chart" or and the patient will either let you do it or soon either the doctor will discharge them for non-compliance or they will be declared incompetent and be restrained. Its no skin off my nose either way. I want to help, but if they want me to fight them..psshhhaaaa..I have better things to do. Im a lover not a fighter..lol and questor is right, this string wont be locked for the exact reasons he stated. Ive been thinking this for days, I'm just suprised someone actually said it. anyhow, the string title could have been phrased much less harshly, as could the 'whiner' response and the other things. Shoulda never been brought up here. Im sorry it did cause its just making bad impressions of people..that really arent deserved. BT

OK, as long as the thread won't be locked I'd like to request my "killfile ronknights" button. Questor, are they really going to be introduced? Geez a million people will be relieved. I want one like the little smileys but I'd like it personalized...I'd like a garbage can complete with flies hovering about s The question was rhetorical. Only trying to clear up the confusion. I've rewritten my response many times trying to make sure nobody would be confused. I was going to double space but got sick of myself at this point. g

Questor, who is making suggestions now? Believe me, you won't like the result if Rosity implements them. :P BTW can somebody beat me unconscious, this thread is getting boring.

ronknights want Man, I was away for some day and everyone seems to go mad here. I would have guessed that the thread ended shortly after my first comment. Here are my two cents: **************************************************** Poserworld has fantastic stuff for low prices. Most people have no problems with the downloads. **************************************************** I do not think that Marques post was appropriate. I certainly do not think that calling him a whiner was appropriate. But I would call me a fool to cancel my membership because of this. Rena & Steve: What both of you manage to do is marvelous. I respect the huge amount of work, which can easily be seen when it comes to the updates. Both of you work with a fully professional attitude. This thread should stop here, there is not much left to be said here. You surely will not loose me as a subscriber. I will support you in any way I can, just because your fantastic site deserves it. Anyone who want to cancel his membership because of anything told here may do so. I, for myself, would not even think about it seriously. Now let us hack each other elsewhere, will we?

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori. 

Wow, this has gotten to be one long thread which mysteriously enough hasn't been moved yet :) While I'm not one to generally join the usual ruckus (too busy munching on cashew nuts and watching the mudslinging) when I see such blatant and insistent attempts at provoking reactions from people I consider friends I have to speak! Marque, I don't know if you're still reading this thread or not, I don't know you, but excuse me if I'm biased concerning this matter as I can recall a time not too far away when Anton Kisiel was made the target of your accusations and complaints to the point where the poor guy had to ask you to stop buying his stuff! Seems to me you're quick to jump the gun at the slightest thing that goes wrong for you when everyone else doesn't see it quite that way. Ronknights, I read other forums here too so please don't go dragging past threads or you'll probably open up a can of worms. Seems to me that you've had your share up to the point where you were asked by another vedor (Dendras) to stop harassing him. As I recall you even made another account to continue attacks in a certain thread. I can't for the life of me see why you've felt you had to make this your own little crusade when you don't have the same problem with the downloads. Anything else could have been taken to the private PWFW forum which is intended for the subscribers. Unlike you though, I won't be posting threads that portray you ... let's say in a bad light only because as an educator I still care to set the good example. I hope any newbies still reading this thread see it for what it really is and not let it stop them from making a free choice of their own whether to join or not based on sample freebies and previews. I'm willing to bet though that they won't regret it :)

"and questor is right, this string wont be locked for the exact reasons he stated. Ive been thinking this for days, I'm just suprised someone actually said it. " Someone might as well have said it BT - I'm sure more than a few people were thinking it. ;] I'ma gonna second Quest on the "ignore this user" button. This board definately needs a Killfile.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Want me to liven it up with a pic of a nude Vicki in the temple with a helmet? :)

...... Kendra

MadYuri said: Questor, who is making suggestions now? Believe me, you won't like the result if Rosity implements them. :P ---- Erm, [innocent expression] It wasn't a suggestion it was a, err, erm... concept idea, that's it. Yeah. :) OOps. :) **** and then he said some more: BTW can somebody beat me unconscious, this thread is getting boring. I can do that. No problem. :) [picks up baseball bat and three glass bottles.] Oh Yuri... Yuuurrriiii, come out to playaayyy...

Want me to liven it up with a pic of a nude Vicki in the temple with a helmet? :)

...... Kendra

***Want me to liven it up with a pic of a nude Vicki in the temple with a helmet? :) *** Oh Kendra, would you, that'd be so cool. [sticks fingers down throat]

oops, duplicate post.

...... Kendra

Want me to liven it up with a pic of a nude Vicki in the temple with a helmet? :) Hurry my savior, ... eh Questor, here is your baseball bat. :P

Thanks Yuri, I think I might be needing that... :)

Hey, I can make nude Vicki's in a temple with a helmet too now, just got her an Mike with the PWFW coupon offer! Yayyyyy! * wanders off mumbling* "I know I had a temple prop somewhere......" P.S. Is that nude Vicky or Vicki or Vickie ??????? Want to get the title right too :)

Just "looks" at Kalypso.... [mutter, mumble, grumble, grinds teeth] :)

Hm, can't seem to find my helmet.... how 'bout a sword? and what do you all feel about nudity? ;-) < ------

...... Kendra

Just morph Mike's helmet, he doesn't have any use for it anyway. :) And no, you are NOT bringing that particular conversation up Kendra... no no no. Please, no, not the nudity question. :) [runs off to purchase a spare nuke from the USSR, just in case]

what's all this fuss I hear about crudite in the gallery? I like crudite, it's very tasty and it's much better to eat your veggies raw anyway since cooking takes out all the nutrients and the dips are so delicious, I don't understand why anyone would get tired of crudite being served in the gallery... what? NUDITY? Oh, well, that's very different... nevermind. Kate (doing her very best Emily Litella impression)

"Want me to liven it up with a pic of a nude Vicki in the temple with a helmet? :) "

Only if the helmet is coming soon to the Marketplace :)

LOL@soulhuntre Can I add another request to that? Could it be a magic "pink" helmet? :) Sorry, I'll shut up now. :)

I'm locking this thread! It's gotten way to far out of hand!

What's that?

Ok, ok, so I'm NOT a mod here, yes, yes, I'm just pretending...but SOMEONE had to say it.

---

This is for Questor:

Just wanted to cement the notion that, yes, indeed, I am an insufferable bastard. :)

Aaaaaarrgggghhhhhh One day Pariah, one day. I'll get you and your little dog too... [Hides eyes from the horror] I'll be having nightmares about grotesque smilies flying in echelon for WEEKS.. Meanwhile, the next person that posts one of those hideous things is responsible for the teddy bear getting it. I mean it, this is no idle threat. The Teddy dies.

here teddy teddy come and meet your maker ha ha ha hah ha ha David

Ah David, now that I see your name I have to look, if you did some more Witchcraft images.

BANG!

WAAAA!!!!! TEEEDDDDYYYYYY!!!!!! oh well he was getting old anyway i hope to do some more Witchcraft images soon, i've got a few ideas floating around in this space i call a mind. David teddy gone, poor teddy teddy? teddy?

I didn't believe it but I know now Questor is not to be taken lightly! Hmmmm wonder what he'll shoot if he sees these smilies ..... Mwahaahaha

Thanks Kalypso, I'm pleased you realised this, it saves me having to kill more cute and cuddly stuff. After all, I wouldn't want to traumatise too many people. Little smiley guys I can cope with, they're small enough to ignore, it's just them hideous square things... They makes me wanna blow up stuff. ----- And people wonder why society is falling apart at the seams... All they need to do is take a look at places like this and witness the celebration of extreme violence that is displayed by it's members, and the demand for even more. Sheesh. :)

a teddy is for life! not just for childhood! :) shall i, shant i, shall i, shant i, shall i, shant i, shall i, shant i yeah why not

Go on, keep pushing, keep it up. I'll start slaughtering more fluffy things or cute things or something... :) mutters under breath and reloads the empty chambers

points Questor at the entire Ewok village

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

ROTFLMAO... Ewoks... hehehe And people call me nasty. :) Thank you Valandar, that's a fine idea, those cute little furry things deserve it.

Oh, no, not the Ewoks!!!! Who's going to fight Da Evil Empire then??? Fluffiness always wins over big black and white metal-plastic things :) By the way, this thread is becoming a nightly ritual for me, not good eh?

"By the way, this thread is becoming a nightly ritual for me, not good eh? " Er... what's wrong with that? Usually by the time they get thoroughly derailed to this point, that's when they're the most entertaining. snicker

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Wabbit season.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Gotta love when someone comes along and deletes all their responses out of a thread so they don't look like an a... er... ;)

how do you make a teddybear go "woof" cover it in petrol then light a match ha ha ha hee hee me got it in for cuddle things as well, David

how do you make a teddybear make "meeeeeooooowww" dunk him in water freeze im stiff, then slice him with a Circular saw Anyone know where the RonKnights-Postings gone? Woof or meeoooww?

A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori. 

ROTFLMAO... You're twisted, the lot of you, twisted I say. Never mind though, I'm sure there are therapists around the world queueing up to deal with you all. Woof Meeeoow indeed... wanders off snickering*

how do you make the fur realy hit the fan? :) stuff it with Dynamite :) light fuse :) run like buggerie :) BOOM!!! im not twisted! just slightly out of shape :)

DUCK season!

quack quack BOOM!!!!!!

"I'm obviously pitifully uninformed about the synergy between some of the personalities here, histories, etc" Nothing complicated about it, just your typical family of dysfunctional hillbillies with about half of them high on "shine" about half the time apparently. Welcome. Pull up a stump and watch out for the houndog. As in every community, certain folks are held in such high esteem that any perceived criticism of them is pretty much taboo, however it is posed, trollishly or politely. I've never subscribed to PW but from the quality of their freebies and most reports they are certainly deserving of such esteem. Not referring to this thread but I would agree that perhaps this rallying may sometimes have a chilling effect on what may be legitimate complaints--again, not referring to this case in particular. P.S. Now I'm confused about which nom de plume is Ron using now--it's like playing Where's Waldo.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Last Call for your PoserWorld Whinings......

Um.... you people do realize that this thread is three years old.....

Your specialist military, sci-fi, historical and real world site.

I was thinkin DeJaVu at first until I noticed the date. I was thinkin..."didn't this just happen 3 years ago? Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

Why do you think I called Last Call? :P

Oh I got it once I scrolled down to see who resurfaced the thread. I may be a bit out of the loop though. Is PW closing down? Tom

“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”

No, I didn't notice. I don't pay attention to dates of posts. Why was it dragged up after 3 years though?

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Ask Imckenzie. Looks like he or she just popped the thread to take a wild jab at Ron Knight's for no reason whatsoever.

Mods should do something about that kind of stuff. I don't go in for personal attacks on people, at the best of times...especially without provocation, in a thread 3 years old. Shameful!

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

Just thought i would let people know, the teddy is fine and well on it's way to making a full recovery :)

Oh yeah... he's MUCH better, well on the road to recovery. Well, assuming he survives the surgery that is...

but.... but......... teddy??????? not teddy........... awwwwwwwwww.................... RSPCT will be contacted now (Royal Sociaty for the Protection of Cuddly Toys)

"Nothing complicated about it, just your typical family of dysfunctional hillbillies with about half of them high on "shine" about half the time apparently. Welcome. Pull up a stump and watch out for the houndog."

Is that the new R'osity tagline?

...... Kendra

"Ask Imckenzie. Looks like he or she just popped the thread to take a wild jab at Ron Knight's for no reason whatsoever." Actually (he) was merely expressing true confusion. I saw all these references with people talking to Ron but I saw no Ron or Ronesque messages. Only later did I see someone mention that Ron's posts had been deleted--which cleared up said confusion. Since he adopted various monickers after being banned(?), asking after the latest one wasn't meant as a jab, just a question. Though we had the occasional heated exchange, I learned not to get drawn in and eventually saw him as more amusing than anything else. In the last incarnation that I was aware of, he had actually adopted a much nicer online personality. Since his posts here were deleted, I can't comment on the current one. "Is that the new R'osity tagline?" It would do for 'Renderosity Forums - the Movie.' Throw in a little Deliverance banjo and you're set. Vicky shore do have a pretty mouth an' I'll betcha ol' Mikey can squeal like a pig real good :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Sorry to drag anyone back here but I feel the need to explain. Fisrt, as someone said above, I don't look at the dates. Second, and more importantly, at 56K, I definitely don't go back looking at threads past a week, much less years. I come here just about every day and hit at most a page or to to catch up. Either I somehow hit next page whole lot of times (Not) or this thread, for whatever bizarre reason, was listed on the first couple of pages when I clicked on it. maybe it was linked in a more recent thread but I don't think so. I can assure you that I did not resurrect it to comment on Ron or anything else. Now in retrospect, it couldn't have been recent because the inability to delete posts after a few minutes has been around for quite awhile and therefore the deleted posts that led to my confusion and comment couldn't have been recent--but who thinks that deeply--not I. At any rate, whether it was my screw-up, a Rendo database hiccup or whatever, I apologize for any confusion, bad feelings, etc. and I'll be more careful to check the dates in future.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken