Yeah, I know, people hate that. Too bad, this one's valid... For crying out loud if you aren't going to distribute any textures with your model don't save the dang thing with the textures in place! Poser crashing errors while your model calls for textures you didn't include are a good way to make me hate you. Its really not so difficult to clear the textures before you save is it? OK, that's it...have a nice day :)

Interesting, when I load object into poser and it can not find the required texture, a window pops up and ask me to locate it, I say no thx and then the model loads in correctly - I have never once have Poser crash from a model looking for a texture - however sometimes the window gets minimized behind poser, simple alt-tab fixes that mind.

ziggy3d, that crashing problem is a well known problem when things aren't right with Poser. I ran into the problem more when I had Windows ME than Windows 2000 or XP. I think Poser was poorly designed, and is not very capable of recovering when things don't go right. Windows ME just wasn't capable of bringing Poser back into line, while Windows XP seems able to handle this misbehavior, and survive. Even if Poser doesn't crash, I've waited several minutes while Poser just hangs there, deciding what to do. That's damned inconvenient, especially if I'm in a hurry to get to work, etc. (Of course things are worse if the geometry is involved.) OK, scifiguy, you and I can wait for the inevitable "ungrateful wretch" messages to arrive. Of course, since I'm a Free Stuff provider (you are too, aren't you?), I think that is so much "BS."

Yep, same here. No crashes, it just asks me find the tex and I say no. It still sucks, though. Now, if you want to talk about irritating, let's talk about models where's there's an .obj file missing for an essential add-on, say, a superhero's cape. If half the damn thing is missing anyway, I don't want to download the stupid thing and you're wasting my time! GRRRR! DON'T OFFER THINGS YOU'RE NOT GIVING! IF SOMETHING'S MISSING, SAY SO!

Oops, sorry Ron, we cross-posted. Yeah, while Poser doesn't crash on me in these situations, it does take its sweet old time getting the message...

I get crashes form this - or a Poser that won't function normally and has to be restarted. Then I spend a while editing the cr2 or pp2, removing all tex refs, a real drag.... :] FishNose

I never edit Cr2's. The easier way: If you ever recover from the problem, just resave that darned thing.. I think it will get resaved without the missing component?! Or better yet, just junk the offending item.

Y'know, it sounds like your gripe should be with poser, or your computer.. not with the people offering the freebies. I am running Windows ME and don't have a problem with this at all. It takes what?- five seconds for poser to realise the texture is missing and asks if you want to search for it.. Is it so hard to hit no thnx? One would think you would be greatful for getting the item you were after for free. ;)

If something was missing and Poser crashes because of that I simply opened the Cr2 or Matpose or whatever with Word Pad and edited it. I had to edit several Matfiles because they looked for a .bum and supplied in the download was a jpg. Poser Pro does not convert jpg to bum so I changed the file extension. No big thing and I've learned to look first at the Cr2 and at the texturefiles to make sure that everything is in place and will load right.

Every organisation rests upon a mountain of secrets ~ Julian Assange

Hey, things happen, people screw up, maybe forget to include a file, sure. But if it's not just a case of forgetfulness but simply "Hey, it's free, so who cares", then that's different thing. Would you be grateful to someone for knowingly giving you a box full of broken dishes? Especially after you drove 20 miles and climbed eight flights of stairs to get them? I'm on dial-up, and it's incredibly annoying to spend 20 minutes downloading some large file only to find that half the stuff is missing and the whole thing is useless. I am very grateful to people who offer nice free stuff. I think they're exceedingly generous, especially since most of them actually PAY to give stuff away (web hosting and all). But I'll never thank someone for broken dishes, or a fan with no blades, or whatever other comparison you'd like to make. Free or not, crap is crap.

Not actually a complaint because I have a limited Poser budget and love freebies, but... like x2000 I am on a dial-up and I hate to d/l a 5mb file only to open it and discover there are store items that need to be purchased in order to use it. Most creators are good about stating required items along with their thumbs..others don't. [Or those instances when it requires another freebie to use and that one has long disappeared from the archieves.]

Yeah, Isn't dial up grand? x2000 I do agree with you in the case of your ever so eloquent broken dishes example, but in my experience those people who have offered free..well, free anything really, especially the very generous people here at r'osity, they want everything to be included and in working order for the simple fact of they would hopefully want you to be able to use what they have created and i would imagine, as easily as possible. I honestly think most of the time if something is missing or misplaced it is a simple case of '0ops'. Or maybe it is someone who hasn't had too much practice.. I really can't understand the mentality of "what the hell it's free... something is better than nothing.." If someone is putting in the effort to make something, upload it to their website and add a link here.. I just think it is an awful lot of effort to intentionally sabotage themselves. ie - you are less likely to dL Zip#2 from the same person if something was missing in Zip#1 However, You will find in most ReadMe files " If something is missing, let me know" or something to that effect. takes a breath ;)

Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad if they would just tell you upfront what you need to make it work, or warn you that something is missing altogether (so long as it's not something essential, like the .obj, in which case what's the point of putting it up in the first place?). But I hate seeing this glorious thumbnail that in no way represents the lump of mesh your actually getting. I do have to say, though, that in my expirience, these cases are definitely in the minority. Most of the people putting up free stuff really do try, and in the event that they simply forgot something, they try to correct it. There's only a few here and there that... well, I just don't know what they're thinking. But no matter what a stupid load of garbage a download may turn out to be, there's absolutely no excuse for anyone flaming the creator. Just delete it and be wary of stuff from that person from then on. Whatever the person may have been thinking when they put it up, they did make that effort, and while you don't need to be grateful for a useless freebie, no one should get hate mail for it, either. Unfortunately, I even know of people providing NICE downloads who've gotten flamed for one stupid reason or another. That's going too far. Downloading bum files just goes along with the territory. Gotta dig through some dirt to find those diamonds. Of course, that doesn't mean we can't rant about it in the forums...;)

Sorry, Crave, we cross-posted. I seem to have that problem a lot today...;) Most of the time it probably is an accident. The thing about Poser is that if you forget to send, say, the .obj, it won't work for anyone else, and yet it'll be fine on your computer, assuming you still have it installed in Poser. And seeing as how Poser uses so many files, it's easy to forget one. I mean, with Bryce, for example, if your posting a Bryce object, it's just one file. Same with materials. Whereas with Poser, you've got your .cr2, .rsr and/or .png, who knows how many texture files, and maybe an .obj, maybe not, just for a single character. And since so many props and figures have their geometry embedded in their .pp2 or .cr2, it's easy to forget the .obj for one that doesn't.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were a utility that would look at a poser cr2 or pp2 list the resources needed and see if they exist?

Then allow you to change those resources to something you have or like better.

Exactly x2000.. With so much to remember to add, it is inevitable that sometimes things will be left out.. Now if you contacted the creator and they refused to send u the missing file, or re-post - THEN you'd have something to bitch about lol. I know it can be frustrating, but sometimes people forget that someone has gone to the trouble of making these and has been generous enough to share them. But like you say, we're allowed to rant about it - what fun would it be if we couldn't ? Lol Roy, yeah, i'll be putting that on my wish list for sure ;)

CR2Edit6 (in beta) has a Project Packager that gathers up the needed files, allows you to add extras (such as PZ2's), creates a standard ReadMe, then zips it all up. Seems to me there is a standalone utility that does most of this also, but maybe it was just someone talking about making one. Dan http://www.zenwareonline.com for CR2Edit, ZenPaint, ZenTile, VueMaster and the complete line of Zenware graphics apps

Just out of interest, the folks whos poser crashes when a texture is missing what version of poser are you running and what OS, maybe theres a common link here?......Steve

Well, I gotta stay with the opening of this thread, that is, make your free stuff the same as what it looks like. Fancy images of clothing and labels like "long dress" work fine but when its merely a texture for someone else's dress it should say so. I've found much of the free stuff to be misleading in how its labeled. Oh, and what's worse is that everyone seems to have poser in a different place so I always have to extract to a temp directory and move from there. Why make your stuff extract to program files/metacreations on my C drive, or under a windows/runtime directory? Just make it runtime only and let us find where we put poser. Ok, those are my two beefs about this. That said, thanks to everyone who shared and thanks for the free stuff. I hope to be contributing soon to that section.

I used to have that problem with 4.03 and Windows ME. I have since moved to 2K and I still get the long wait as it grinds through a very bloated textures directory tree, but it will recover. I haven't noticed this with free stuff, but there are a number of purchases I have made which didn't provide converted BUMs (for the obvious reason...file size). This was not a huge problem for me, except when the creator uses tricky naming schemes which cause me to over look them (like somethingbumtrans.jpg or whatever) What was even worse for me, was that when Poser crashed under these circumstances, I almost always had to reboot the machine. Things were always terribly unstable afterward......ugh windows ME is just plain crap. No OS should allow a program to leave the system in such a lousy state. That's the whole purpose of an OS (at least according to everyone, except MS) eric

Poser doesn't always crash, and yes it often does keep going when I click the don't keep looking button. Its not consistent, perhaps because its a buggy program. Bum files seem to be the biggest culprit, with poser much more likely to crash when looking for a .bum file. I have XP, but it happened with WinME too.

But I'm not talking about "oops...I accidently forget texture 2 of 7". I absolutely understand that people might accidently miss something, and I just email or IM them to let them know there's a problem. However, in this case no textures were included and the readme even says no textures are provided. Yet when I try to use it, textures requested, poser crashes. I checked the cr2 and there are twelve references to texture and bump maps all hard coded to a "G" drive. How many people have a G drive? No wonder Poser choked. Blaming Poser or my OS for this kind of thing is a cop out. Expecting any program to run properly when you program them to load non-existant files on non-existent drives is stupid. Garbage in-garbage out applies to Poser too you know. If anything, I grateful that Poser can often recover from these programming errors.

I'm sorry, but that kind of thing really is giving me a box of broken dishes. The G drive reference is a fresh twist, and although most freebies work great this isn't the first time I've gotten downloads with no textures that ask for them when you load the model...that's why I brought it up. "It's free" isn't an excuse to be lazy, and giving me something that crashes my program isn't "generous". The klez worm is "free" too, I doubt anyone is very happy when they get it.

Poser crashed on me the other night. First time in MONTHS. It is on the Mac. It had been so long since it had crashed that it took a couple of minutes to realize that was what had happened. ::blink, blink:: This Windows box crashes, and sometimes even turns itself off, several times during an online session. The G4 does have more memory, but it is simply a more stable environment for doing graphics. BTW, the problem when it crashed? I'd read Bloodsong's note about ProPack and bum files in his Eagle Expansion Pack, and had conveniently forgotten it in my hurry to play with all those birds. So I'll chalk that up to human error, my error, and certainly not blame the creators of either the program or the model. If Poser is taking longer than you wish to find something, I have two recommendations: First add more memory. Second, consider the sheer size of the files you are using, and mentally calculate how much data juggling is going on. It is mind-boggling, which is why we let the machines do the calculations. When I started animating, characters were 2 dimensional, 32 pixels high by 16 wide (twice as many as before!), and we got 16 (wowie-zowie) predetermined colors (or what some programmer thought passed for colors). Even then our tools would crash. People coming into graphics today are ungrateful. I hope that it is more out of ignorance than boorishness. Carolly

Never experienced the crash problen on Win2K, but then I have drives G,H,I,J and K, so I'm weird. I've found in developing software that it's all too easy to get something working on your development system and have it crash on a user's machine because you forgot to include a file, or had a hardcoded directory reference slip in. That's when tools like Windows Installer are worth their weight in gold. Obviously, there is a need for something similar for Poser. CR2Edit6 sounds like a winner for those who want/can afford it. The real answer though is a built in packaging capability in Poser, though I doubt that's high on the list of features they are thinking of/thought of for Poser 5. It's going to be tough to get everyone to use an external utility consistently, even a free one. Witness the failed attempts at a standard file naming convention. I've experienced the same problems everyone else has with missing files, directory paths, etc., but on the whole, I'd have to say that they don't happen too often, especially considering Poser's (overly?) complex directory structure. It's an annoyance but since it's free and no one forced me to download any of it on my 56K dial-up, I really don't see any reason to be too put out about it. I just try to think twice before clicking. Do I really want or need this, do I know this person's work, how big is the file, etc. If I drive 20 miles and it's still a piece of shitake, I hit delete and move on to something else. Just my way of looking at it.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

I have put up a freebie (VIO6 Remap ZDragon with NO texture) and I used drive "G" when I helped create it but have not had anyone let me know if it did this or not. What particular freebie is this in question? I like the chance to help if it is something I inadvertantly done

My goal wasn't to point fingers at anyone TM, just make the general observation so perhaps people would take a second and think about this when they aren't giving away the texture maps. But it wasn't your file ;)

Oh ok, either way. Sometimes when you are new you kinda get excited and in a hurry to post a free thing. Some things get unfortunately and mistakenly left out. Chalk it up to human error i guess! I'm guilty :>

It's kind of hard to squeeze a lot of information in a thumbnail (and have it readable). It would be great if they could implement an online "info" button for each download. Not a full readme, just what's included and what (if anything) is required to use the file, along with the size of the download. This won't help with missing files but you'd be able to see upfront what you should be getting. It would also be nice to know what textures, clothing items, etc. were used in the thumbnail if they aren't included.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Hey, it's not incredibly hard to fit necessary info into a thumbnail. Here is a good example.

Here's another. Do you have any doubt that you need the original clothes?!

OK, as a result of this thread I've added another tool to CR2Edit6, a File Integrity Checker. It examines a CR2, PP2, HR2 or PZ3 and verifies the existence of all needed files including alternate geometry files and library RSR/PNG's. Lists them, so you can see if there are problem paths, separates the map files into found and missing lists. Reads either PC or Mac style paths. When it's done, you can click a button to open an automatically-generated RTF file with all relevant info, in CR2Edit's Notebook. If you decide the download is missing too much to bother saving, there is another tool that removes CR2's and all their associated files with one click. If you are afraid the OBJ might be needed by another file, you can click on it in the File Manager and you will be given a list of all CR2 and PZ3 files that use it, if any. There is no release date at this point for version 6, but if you don't have 5 there is no point in waiting, since it is always cheaper to upgrade than to start with the latest, at Zenware. There will be no price break for upgrading from version 4 or earlier. The standard ReadMe I mentioned is available at Arcana, it would be very nice if more people would use it. Dan http://www.zenwareonline.com for CR2Edit, ZenPaint, ZenTile, VueMaster and the complete line of Zenware graphics apps

Well Ron, you included one of the things I mentioned. (?!)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

lmckenzie, I'm not sure what you mean. I always let people know if something else is needed.

lmckenzie, The nice thing about the freestuff area at 3dcommune is that the author has plenty of room to describe what exactly is included, what is needed if it goes with something else, a warning about large file sizes for the folks on dialup, or even a reference as to his sources for folks who appreciate authenticity. The pop-up window has two other advantages: you can leave instant feedback for the creator, so they can hear of both praise and problems, and it probably foils those mass downloaders who strip a site of everything. I just thought of another advvantage: some people have had difficulty getting thumbnails posted. If you saw a file named "Tiffany" here, with no thumbnail, you wouldn't know whether you were getting a hair model, a skin texture, or a lampshade... and so probably wouldn't download it at all. If the creator has room for a description, they can get around that problem. Carolly

Exactly Carolly, I do like Commune's method. Filesize is one thing I'd like to see. Sometimes, if the file is large, I may put off downloading it 'til later. It's not a big deal to start downloading to see it but still a minor nicety. Missing thumbnails are also a bother, as you say. The extra comments the creators usually nclude are nice as well. Things like "not poseable," or "texture included" determine whether or not I download an item. With the download window, you can have information and a nice size picture as well. Ron I was talking about other things in addition to other required files. Just my wishes, no comment necessary :-)

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

The instant feedback issue is important, too. Remember poor Caleb talking about a hundred or so people downloading a prop before someone bothered to tell him there was a problem with it? If the file is right there, but you can't get it, or open it, or whatever, it is easy to drop the creator a line, and they can fix the snag. Same thing with thanks or words of appreciation. This is especially important to the Japanese community, but I think all of us need to hear that our work has value. Carolly

One reason an artist doesn't get instant feedback: So many of us will download something and never use it for months, or maybe even a year, if ever! Hey, we see so much great Free Stuff disappear because the generous artist can't afford to give it away. Artists lose web site space due to bandwidth considerations, etc. You learn to download it now, regardless when you think it might be used. I can't remember the last time someone contacted me and said "Hey, I used your facial expressions in a project. Here is an example of the results!" No one has ever told me there is a problem with any of my freebies. I sincerely hope there aren't any problems. If there were, I'd want to fix them ASAP. Yes, some people have thanked me for the Freebies, and I'm glad they're good enough to share. Yes, I can see the download count go up each day. That's where I take my satisfaction. Ron

That's right Ron. I just went back and found Traveler's male to female hair morphs to use with Koz' new trans maps. The file is 2 years old and there is no readme included. If Duane Moody hadn't done a search and found out, I would have had no Idea who made them. Almost as import as including a readme is naming it. If they're no important instructions in it, I'm guilty of just letting it overwrite the other readmes or not even copying it. Now I'v started renaming them with the filename of the item but it shouldn't be necessary. In a magic fantasy world, Poser would allow you to right-click on an item in the library and display a comments file (with the same name as the item). Add a hyperlink and presto, you could send an email comment to the creator or go to their webpage.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

The ReadMe that CR2Edit6's Packager automatically generates is named thus: ReadMe_filename.txt, the "ReadMe" is placed first so that it will be alphabetically listed correctly in a folder. As for overwriting plain old ReadMe.txt files, it can't happen with the Installer that has been included with CR2Edit since version 3 or 4. Ver6 opens any included readme in its Notebook, for instant inspection and renaming. As for that magic fantasy world, part of it has been here for some 6 or 7 months, in CR2Edit 5.14 and higher. Every PZ2 created by it has info automatically embedded in it, readable by a tool in CR2Edit, or, more clumsily, in any text editor. Since thousands of these files have been created by commercial users, you probably have a number of them already on your hard drive. This capability is extended to every type of Poser file in CR2Edit6, instantly accessible and editable by right-clicking a file in the File Manager. This info can of course include a web or email address, it can be copy/pasted from the FileInfo tool into a browser or email program, further automation of this coming. Dan http://www.zenwareonline.com for CR2Edit, ZenPaint, ZenTile, VueMaster and the complete line of Zenware graphics apps

I've had this problem. I saved a blank page as a jpeg in Photoshop.when Poser asks for a non exsistant texture, I rename my blank to what Poser asks for and save in a folder called "Rotten" (so that I can find it later for deletion). Once the CR2 is loaded, I can dump the offending texture and resave. No more crashes. Of course, it would be nice if this was not needed, but there you go. Hope this helps.

Hey Dan, those features of your app sound great, especially embedding the info in the file itself. Part of the need though I think is for these types of capabilities to be organic to Poser without requiring third party utilities which not everyone will have. Also, as a matter of ease of use. I love P3DO but I don't like to have to switch to another program to get the file management capabilities Poser should have included. There are a lot of possibilities. How about one click to post the current image to your favorite website's gallery. One click to call up the creator of an item's current catalog. When you use XYZ hair, a small scroll letting you know that XYZ has a new item or is having a sale. Web enabled apps are the way things are going. Poser could take advantage of that is some interesting ways.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken