Well, it's been 24 hours since I recieved C2... Heres what happened: I went home Ate some food Unpacked it from the box and ... he he just kidding :) But seriously, I have not been able to get a decent render using GI and caustics. My renders come nowhere near what is in the example images section of the CD.... The bad part is that the example scenes don't render the same way either.... maybe they didn't set the options appropirately. :( As for speed, well I am waiting to get home and see the results of a render that took all day. Hope it comes out good this time. It is a glass block wall in the middle of a fully closed room with one bulb light behind the wall and and all settings at high. Seems that this one is a pure system stresser no doubt. Everything I have generated so far with GI comes out with a very blurred and splotchy look and the caustics are not sharp enough to be recognized as caustics. Imagine the patterns on tkanes blocks on every object in a scene, even without caustics! Oh well, of course it is probably time for me to find the tutorials on the CD and see what happens..... Maybe I'll post what I have if it doesn't look tooo bad. :) Maybe some of the more knowledgeable C2 gods (litst, etc) could help ........ {:n) .Painter