I really never say anything about anyone or anything. I try to read all of what is going on. And on all of this uproar, I am wondering if all have forgotten the generosity of Daz? He gave us Stephanie, then the gorilla, and all of the other great freebies we all look forward to! So why is everyone jumping to conclusions? Why don't we all sit back and wait till daz is in the office on Monday and see what he has to say? I remember awhile back, there was concern over images used in clipart etc. After all was said and done Daz eased everyones mind, and posted what you could or couldn't do. I don't think he is any different than any of us, trying to protect what is his. If he doesn't want clothes made from working with his meshes, then I think that is his right, and if that is his wish, I will not be offended that I have to pull my one free dress I made from the free stuff. I really don't think what everyone is reading into this, is what Daz intended. That would be like biting off the hand that feeds you! So I for one will sit back and wait for the official word from Daz! And I will abide by what he says :) I am a lover not a fighter!

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
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•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
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Amen to that! mac

Maybe you didn't feel the pressure of potential threat that some of us did. Maybe you didn't feel blind-sided by this sudden, very sneaky announcement, "in another place." Let's not forget one thing: DAZ needs us too. So let's not get to much in awe of DAZ (or the great Oz). Yes, it will be nice to see what DAZ has to say on Monday. But they also had 4 months to have their say, and didn't take the opportunity. In the meantime I'm having fun seeing what can be done with Tailor and Musclebound Mike. I wouldn't even begin to think of distributing the clothes though.

Awwww! And here was me thinking this thread was for pacifists only! Haven't you got enough space in the other threads, Ron? mac

Ron, I did not feel blindsided, and I didn't really see anything as being sneaky. I feel bad for the people that may have created items to sell, and then maybe have to pull them from the store, but I also see a lot of people complaining, with out hearing what daz has to say. Even if Daz said what he had to say in another forum, it wasn't hid from public, and I don't think that is being sneaky at all. I see it as maybe he has other things to do than to post in all the different forums :) I also don't think Daz is going to come running at us with guns ablazing! If he decides he doesn't want people to do the clothes and things, I think he will ask polietly that they be removed from stores and free stuff. Something is happening to these communities in general, people are becoming outright mean and vindictive (spelling wrong I know) I have seen more mean spirited postings in the forums lately than ever before. Forgive me for my pollyanna attitude, but I believe in the goodness of people, and that all will be ok in the end!

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
Processor - Clock Speed:  2.8 GHz
Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

I thought Chad did come in to have his say and I thought you summarised it Ron. Personally, I'm very grateful for the freebies Daz have given out over the years. The street scene props get used time and again in my animations. I'm only vaguely aware of the copyright problem, it doesn't affect me at all, but I am aware that the forum has been obsessed with it to the detriment of other threads and requests for help. I can well understand a company protecting it's interests. Frankly, it's beginning to bore me...

But, Pokeydots...you should not have to even think of taking away your button dress. I read your posts to Xurge's forum over at RDNA....Your joy at modelling shone through in each of them...no matter how frustrated you got. This reminded me ALOT of myself, trying to follow Thip's tutorial in the Amapi forum, a year or so ago. It is wrong for a corporation to turn around and try and convince you that you have done something illegal by making that dress, purse and shoes and posting them to your friends in the community. When you bought your v2 figure, you entered into a contract with DAZ. And, that contract did not say you could not make a model of an article of clothing for a figure you created with their m2 characters...no...the readme only refers to the distribution of the cr2 files. not original mesh objects that can be used in conjunction with the Daz m2 characters. i don't know what prompted daz to make their statement. perhaps a struggling economy. maybe even genuine concern about the tailor. yes, daz has been good to us. but, we are not obligated to give them the rights to our own independent creations. as for ronknight's position....daz may be in the right, in that case, since the tailor mimics the morphs in the m2 cr2's. your thread mad me very sad. because i could read the joy you felt at making your creation and sharing it, in xurge's forum.

poppi, Thank you, and yes I did enjoy making the items and I was more thrilled then you know when I finished them and gave them to the community for all they have given me. I just don't want do something illegal, or something against anyone who has given us so many free things, and even the ones I purchased (Vic, Mike, and many others)They were worth every penny to me, even if it means items I would make for them, could only be used by me. I don't feel obligated to Daz, I only feel that to abide by whatever statment Daz makes to this, would be the morally correct thing to do. Like I said, I don't like to cause waves :) I won't pull my dress and things, unless Daz ask us to remove them.

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
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Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

I saw nothing in the post at poser pros that said you can't create clothes for V2 and M2, they don't want the cr2 files for them(V2&M2) redistributed, wich they made clear upon the release of vicky2, they even provided a free cr2 for people to use to make morphs. The only thing I can see that would be a problem is, if you want to take their mesh, apply their morphs, and try to sell it to make a quick buck. back to lurk mode

I for one, really hope that your dress stays. it's cute. i'd wear it. ;*)

lol! Thanks poppi :)

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
Processor - Clock Speed:  2.8 GHz
Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

When people see some things as beautiful, other things become ugly. When people see some things as good, other things become bad. Being and non-being create each other. Difficult and easy support each other. Long and short define each other. High and low depend on each other. Before and after follow each other. Therefore the Master acts without doing anything and teaches without saying anything. Things arise and she lets them come; things desappear and she lets them go. She has but doesn't possess, acts but doesn't expect. When her work is done, she forgets it. That is why it lasts forever. Lao-tzu I'm going to rest a while and then try to let something creative come. Take care of each other. Q

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

4th party....they added a clause in their faq#49 about not using shrinkwrap/and a number of modelling functions, rhino has contour, sketch on mesh, and csec curves...but, max and others have clothreyes...etc...well, daz is saying that folks cannot use these modelling methods to create their own original mesh objects for distribution. this was not in their readme at the time of purchase...so, i really know that they can not bind their clients with this new spin on old licensing. however, due to loyalty, morality, and issues of getting in trouble...lol...at that last bit, folks have been upset over this "changing of the rules". then, there are others who thought to make quicky creations with programs like tailor, and distribute them as they would. i did not purchase tailor. i thought it was way cool, but, sort of like really, really "cheating" on the whole creation process.

Hey Q, I like that!

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
Processor - Clock Speed:  2.8 GHz
Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

Thank you, Quixote, for introducing a wee bit of sanity. Daz are the last people that are out to get the Poser community! This will settle, and reasoned, civilised debate will win the day. At least, I'm confident that it will.

Poppi, I guess they have a similar veiw of modeling as I do then, I've used the csec in rhino to create some items I needed at the time, but would never try to redistribute them because I didn't really feel I created them. on well, hope everything turns out ok for everyone

Pokeydots: I agree with the sentiment in your original post. However, you use the word "all" describing people who've forgotten DAZ's generosity. To this I say, complainers complain; ranters rant. It's what they do. And others jump in when they are not happy about a particular issue. The quiet ones are the contented ones. So, out of 70,000 Rosity members, how many complained? Even if it were 1,000, DAZ would still be doing pretty well on the issue.

Dear PokeyDots, I'm not going to quit using your shoes, cause they have been something I've been looking for for a long time and they're really sweet. Heck I wear shoes just like that in the winter time. As far as I know there aren't any morphs on Vicki's feet in danger and I wouldn't know hw to transfer them if there were, besides I have bought every single Vicki there is-- so there. Well, I did take the lo-res when she was free. I don't think Daz is the Evil Empire either, I think they have had some slightly bad advice lately and it has not always been "spun" properly either. Though they do try really hard. And I think there might also some ways around this where no one gets hurt. Someone mentioned an obj file for M2 being used to decode the catsuit. That'd make it kosher all round, and would suit me. After all, I paid for Mike2. Emily

Pokeydots: I agree with the sentiment in your original post. However, you use the word "all" describing people who've forgotten DAZ's generosity. Jackson, my apologies, you are right , I should have said maybe some of you have forgotten his generosity! I know there are good people here who never complain, or stir up trouble :) And Emily, I'm glad you like my shoes :) makes me feel good to know they are being used. Like I said, I'm not planning on pulling my freebies, unless Daz ask us to. I don't think there would be a problem with the shoes either.

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
Processor - Clock Speed:  2.8 GHz
Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

Thank you Pokeydots, for at least trying to create a thread with a positive, reasonable slant. Children are too impatient to wait, and that is one of the hallmorks of becoming adult: we know that things take time. Furthermore, if you want it done right, it is going to take even more time. Considering all of the time that DAZ has given to us (free models, extra weeks on a sale, etc.), surely we can give them a couple of days? There are some basic issues of fairness here. And being fair means that both sides get to present their position and arguments supporting that position and rebuttals to the arguments presented by the other side. Trying someone "in absentia" just isn't done in civilized countries. Carolly

Well said Carolly :)

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
Processor - Clock Speed:  2.8 GHz
Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

Thanks pokeydots!

Your point is refreshing to read and I agree with you. But the hysteria has been fun to observe!

Your thread made me smile as much as those other threads made me laugh. :)

Sasha(who enjoys blown-out-of-proportion drama immensely)

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/pages/faq/faqquestions.html

OK, folks I don't know what FAQ you're reading. I'm there now, and none of their FAQ section even has numbers! And I found nothing about The Tailor either. So how much effort does DAZ take to let us know about such things? None. How did I find out? Through a chance remark here at Renderosity in a thread about Mike's Bodysuit. Then I went to PoserPros and brought the news here. DAZ has been generous. But they are also a business. We pay for a product, and we deserve to get good quality and good customer service. If a company wants to make certain restrictions on the use of their product, they owe it to us and themselves to be prompt, take the effort to communicate. It is after all Their Jobs. We don't need to bow to the Great DAZ in fear or awe. We are their customers. They need us to survive. No this is not a personal crusade. Others have objected and debated over this issue. Read the threads and see. Sallie, this is about using Tailor to make clothes. DAZ had not mentioned creating new clothing models. Keep your dress available till DAZ tells you of a problem, but don't worry about it. I knew there was a problem with my stuff and I pulled it immediately. I've received assurances that I'm not in trouble for that reason. However, I will not release any more free stuff till I'm totally sure that the current issues are settled. But the way DAZ operates, you will never be sure because they'll hit you with something months down the line. They just did it. Sallie, you're my valued friend, and I'll leave this thread alone after this message. That's the least I can do. Congratulations on your dress, and may you share many more.

Ron, I don't see the problem with Tailor either, When tailor hit the market I jumped on it, but for personal use. It seemed obvious to me that you couldn't sell or give away the clothes morphs you made using it, as it would be like giving the models away, at least that is the way I looked at it, maybe I am mistaken, but I thought it was so if we wanted to make a pleasingly plump Vicki or Mike we could also make the clothes fit them, for our own personal use, or commercial images. Am I the only one who thought this way?

Poser 9 SR3  and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type:  AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size:  1TB
Processor - Clock Speed:  2.8 GHz
Operating System:  Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
Graphics Type:  ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics 
System Ram:  8GB 

Oh no, the free cr2 for the clothing models all had to be put through objaction mover so you had to have the clothing they were morphed for. Everything was attempting to be as righteous as possible. And, lots of people asked if this was kosher when Tailor first came out. The reason there are so many hard feelings is that we thought we had done our homework. And I think we had. Emily

No pokeydots... it isnt just you :) I thought that way too... To me its another way of sharing m2 and v2 morphs which has always been a no-no! If I made my own morphs in a modeling program and then transferred them to clothes in tailor I thought that would be ok... and still think that would be ok. Of course I'm not ready for that anyway LOL

"Own the Day"

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DS user since the first alpha :)

Poser user through P5

It seems this thing has been blown way out of proportion. DAZ's license hasn't changed. It's the same as it has always been and under that license agreement, they could prevent people from distributing anything that has any part of anything that they made in it, including cr2's. They chose to give the community permission to do certain things because it benefits them as much as it does the community. They don't have to let you distribute any cr2's of their products, but they do. Of products like Vicki 1 and Mike 1, their clothes, etc. The permissions weren't given for V/M2 and certain other figures because the "product" as they stated is basically a morph package and by distributing the cr2, you would be effectively distributing the product. That's my feeling why they have decided the bodysuit is a problem (that, too, is their mesh and cr2). The bodysuit is basically the body mesh of the underlying figure with a few geometry changes to add in wrinkles, etc. I haven't tried this myself, but it has been effectively shown that the Tailor can approximate the V/M2 morphs pretty closely in this mesh because it is basically the same as the base figure. The more different the mesh is from the underlying figure, the more "distorted" the morphs seem to be. So using the Tailor to make Mike and Vicki 2 morphs on these pieces could be seen as transferring the morphs themselves. A few people seem to be upset because DAZ is selling a morphed catsuit on their site. Well, that IS their right. It IS their mesh. DAZ has never said you can't make clothes to fit the V/M2 characters, just that the bodysuit is too close to the underlying figure. As someone else pointed out, they may not have realized until now just how closely the Tailor can make the morphs on the bodysuit. So they have effectively revoked permission to distribute cr2's of the bodysuit with M/V2 morphs. They can do that. Their license hasn't changed at all and the agreement you make when you click "I agree" on installation does not tell you you can distribute cr2's. Let's not burn them on the cross yet.

Finally. Thank you Diane. I was just thinking the same thing, as I have only now, just finished reading the original post, and subsequent thread, that started this whole mess. There really is nothing new here folks. Just some wildfire, started by speculation being confused with fact.

Hi, Diane - always a pleasure to hear your voice of reason again. We need all the calm reason we can get in this matter. I agree there's too much tension in this matter, but I am afraid it is not a trivial one. It may have started as a discussion about Tailor do's and don't's, but the underlying problem is far more general. What several people ask (myself included) is for clarification of the EULA : just how far DAZ will accept that DAZ stuff is used as input or reference for new Poser stuff. Reading the EULA literally, the answer is that if your stuff fits DAZ stuff at all, you're violate DAZ' copyrights. That this is the core concern is clear from the EULA - as it says, it is impossible to know, or foresee, all the tools that can be used to derive "your own" meshes from DAZ stuff. AND (although the EULA claims the opposite), it is impossible to tell from the finished new mesh whether or not it "started life" as a DAZ mesh. All too often, you just can't tell the difference...! The EULA therefore ends up banning any and all meshes fitted to DAZ meshes, WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE ANY VERTEXES IN COMMON WITH THE DAZ MESH THAT THE NEW MESH IS FITTED TO. This is not exactly good news to 3rd party Poser stuff creators! I don't care if it's legally unenforcible or not. It's the general spirit of informed consent and cooperation that made Poser great, IMHO. I sympathize with DAZ - they're caught between a rock and a hard place, Chad states it clearly. They have to both accept and encourage 3rd partyers, for the good of the entire Poser market, AND they have to guard against their own work being used as raw material for competing products. It is in the best interests of the entire Poser community to figure out the answer to this problem. But the present EULA is, IMHO, not the answer. Or at least my INTERPRETATION of it is not. That is why I humbly ask DAZ to state, specifically and unequivocally, that my interpretation is totally wrong ;o)

"A few people seem to be upset because DAZ is selling a morphed catsuit on their site. Well, that IS their right. It IS their mesh."

No one ever said it wasn't. Daz is welcome to make and sell any product they please and more power to them.

The reason that is an issue is because it seems pretty hypocritical to say the reason Mike's suit can't be morphed by others (by any means apparently) and other clothes can is because it can be used to replace the body of Mike1 and "circumvent" the need for Mike2. However, they do not require proof of purchase of Mike2 to buy their morphing body suit so the credibility of this position seems pretty flimsy. I mean come on...if this would actually affect sales of Mike2 why would they make one available from their site and let just anyone buy it? That makes zero business sense, so they are either some of the worst business people ever or its a red herring argument. Vicki's morphing suit has been out for ages. How many catsuited Vicki's do you see in the gallery? Who here thinks Vicki's sales have ever suffered one iota because of her morphing catsuit? So where is the evidence that Mike's body suit will have this affect?

IMHO the goal here is what they have already stated...they want approval rights of all products that can fit over their morphed figures. I don't know their actual reason for wanting that, I just know they've said they want it. As thip states, this seems like they could even extend that to any clothing, not just morphed ones. So Daz needs to spell out exactly what they want, and I don't think "so submit everything to use and we will exercise veto rights as we see fit" is going to make too many folks think highly of them.

BTW: anyone who thinks Tailor morphs are copies of the Mil2 morphs must not have used it. If there's one thing I know its what Tailor can and cannot do. The morphs it makes are NEVER the exact same and ALWAYS need tweaking to work well--if they work in a usable manner at all--and that includes the ones it makes in the body suits.

OK, DAZ went to great lengths to show how Mike 1 can "appear to be Mike 2," merely by wearing a morphable bodysuit. DAZ used that as an argument against distributing said bodysuit. However, DAZ's own morphing bodysuit can do the same exact "feat of magic." DAZ has said that it's possible to work out an arrangement where people who might violate DAZ policies can make an exclusive brokering relationship with DAZ. What are we to figure from this? DAZ doesn't mind cheating itself out of Mike 2 sales, but no one else can do it. Another interesting note: I'd heard that Mike's Morphable Clothing pack had died before it was released. The reason: The Tailor program made it obsolete. Next thing you know, The Tailor is sold exclusively at DAZ, and now the Mike Morphing Clothing Pack has been released. HMM, do you think DAZ contacted Codetwister, and said he's violating DAZ copyrights.. Maybe DAZ offered Codetwister an exclusive brokering deal? And now DAZ is turning in the screws on us?!

Im trudging through these threads and reading all of the technical terms (CR2, derivitive vertices etc.) and i cant help but imagine how $$$long $$it would take a court of law to sort this out.

I dont know what DAZ will make as their "official position" on morphs spawned by the tailor. But i supect that there is little legal precedence for claiming total ownership of the shape of a "computer 3D object" you created.

step away from your computer for minute and look around the REAL physical world. imagine for moment that firearms maker Smith& Wesson decided they wanted the exclusive market on custom side hoslters for their pistols.
and anyone who took a Smith& Wesson pistol and placed it in a
wet mold to make a custom form fitting leather holster was somehow "stealing" a derivitive of their patented gun design.

what if Ferrari decided that "tailoring" and selling a custom vinyl car cover for their cars, was somehow "stealing"a derivitive of their patented car Body design.

at least Smith& Wesson and Ferrari would have millons of dollars to spend on lawyers in a wasted effort to stop the holster and vinyl car cover makers.
Does any one here think that DAZ has those resources??

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Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=675524

Yup...I found what makes sense as starting this all....it is in this thread, and, addressed by Dan Farr....I do believe that all who bought the m2charactors, before this date....are cool with being able to pretty much make meshes on their own.....this is when the rules appear to have changed.

If you read this, it's all about the alleged copyright infringement when Amy was introduced. DAZ has since worked out a private arrangement with the creators. I just re-read the entire thread myself. This has absolutely no reference to Tailor. I'm surpised you thought it does.

Daz's last statement does not apply to just Daz meshes. If you make your own mesh and morph it to fit M2 figures, then you are violating their rights by copying their morphs. If I create my own body suit to fit Vicki 2 and create morphs so the mesh will fit her different morphs, then if I distribute the mesh, I am in violation of their EULA. Most everyone knows you can not legally redistribute the .cr2's of Vicki, Mike, etc. The statement concerns even meshes that are not Daz's meshes. If they are morphed to fit the version 2 figures, then they can not be distributed without Daz's permission. Until Daz clarifies their statement, I have to go by what they have most recently said, and they have specifically stated that clothing that is morphed to fit the version 2 figures can be prohibited on several grounds: 1) it is a derivation if it fits a specific version 2 morph, 2) if the mesh can be used on a different model to give that model the appearance of that morph (that would be most breast morphs, most body morphs, etc.), or 3) if it can be considered in direct competition to a Daz product. I'm not brandishing a torch, calling for blood. I am pointing out what Daz has said and the pitfalls in their stance. I will voice my concerns and vote on their position with my wallet.

Thanks for pointing out the earlier "Amy's hand" case, Poppi. Perfect example, IMHO, of the general problem I've been desperately trying to point out. Forgive me for re-re-re-iterating it, but I honestly think it is of extreme importance both to DAZ and all 3rd party creators. Tailor-ing and any kind of shrink-wrapping are two sides of the same coin, DAZ-wise. Both essentially use DAZ meshes (morphs are simply mesh info w/out the actual mesh) as "guidance data" in modeling. Tailoring uses DAZ morphs as input to push a certain shape into a mesh. Shrink-wrapping uses DAZ meshes as targets to pull a mesh into a certain shape. Thus, both methods produce what DAZ calls derivatives. DAZ clearly acknowledges that their core concern is that it may be extremely hard to tell a DAZ derivative from an original mesh. Quoting Dan Farr from the "Amy's Hand" thread : "differing polygon count and layout does not necessarily mean a model hasnt been derived from another model." Therefore, it seems, DAZ will consider ANY mesh that fits a DAZ mesh a derivative - and thus a potential copyright violation, especially if it competes with a DAZ product. Intentionally mis-quoting Dan Farr, I would like to point out the obvious : "Differing polygon count and layout does not necessarily mean a model HAS been derived from another model." Rather, it would indicate that the model HAS been scratch-built. But ANY model that is supposed to fit a DAZ model, such as clothing for a figure, will have to ... well, fit, for obvious reasons. So, unless DAZ clarifies the EULA, silly, semi-honest 3rd party guys like my humble self will have to assume that they are guilty unless proven innocent. And since it is just as impossible to prove that my meshes are NOT rip-offs, however different the poly count and layout, as it would be to to prove that they ARE - well, I don't stand a chance. The strictly legal pros and cons do not interest me - it is the spirit of informed consent and cooperation I don't want destroyed. So either I retire as a clothing developer, or I ignore the EULA and take my chances. And since I will not take chances on behalf of all the good people who have accepted my freestuff, or bought my commercial items - well, then I just have to consider myself headed for retirement until this matter is cleared up. I have taken the liberty of e-mailing DAZ a link to my original thread about this problem, and I still hope fervently that it will be cleared up by saying that my interpretation of the EULA is ridiculously wrong. But I will only dare to believe it if DAZ says so themselves - it is their EULA, anything else that has been said in all our verbose threads is essentially guesswork. So - DAZ says?

"Oh no, the free cr2 for the clothing models all had to be put through objaction mover so you had to have the clothing they were morphed for" Ummmmm... just out of curiousity, where can I download or buy CR2Mover?

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Well heck yes, I wouldn't mind knowing that myself, might be pretty damn useful. I already have one version of Objaction Mover which works exclusively on "object" files, but one that works on cr2 files to make sure of compliance with Daz copyright. Well now, that'd be really something wouldn't it? Must get that one. digs out wallet Where did you say it was? Assuming such an amazingly wonderous program actually exists?