I ve found this : http://www.teraiyuki.net/5gallery/picture/yuki_007.jpg and others looking like this here : http://www.cam.hi-ho.ne.jp/m_sakamoto/ryoko/ga2002.html Is this made with Poser ? I mean, it looks like Poser, feels like Poser, but ... I don t know shrugs and since I don t speak japanese, I can t tell by reading what s on the site :) thanks for informations ! Jeff

those model meshes looka little high quality to be poser models I woudl say this is NOT poser.

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According to "Digital Beauties", p244, Ken-Ichi Kutsugi is using Shade, 3DMax, Lightwave, Inferno and Henry.

Those ladies looked nurbed all the way... -Adam

For some reason they look like poser/photo compliations to me. I may be wrong, but that is what they reminded me of.

Nope, Those aren't poser models. These models are actually lower quality than poser meshes, at least as far as capturing anatomical details.

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nnnnaaaaaawwwww!!!!!!!!! The first one (jfbonte's link) is superior to any Poser figure available, Vina D comes something like close.... Alex

Simple question then. How exactally is this mesh, or for that matter Vina D, better than a poser mesh?

Simple answer fygomatic , look carefully at the armpit flesh folds as well as the elbow folds, they are humanly perfect. You can't get a resolution that smooth with any Poser compatable figures, which are more crudely done in construction compared to a movie quality figure. The resolution of the mesh and the texture is too high in quality in this image, very fine quality work. The image is deeper than can be done in Poser, obviously it was not rendered in Poser. Vina D has over 117,000 polygons, when she is rendered in her textures you can genuinly see the difference, quite impressive for Poser. Victoria has over 28,000 polygons, however idealy designed for high quality and common use at the level of Poser 4 and the average computer. Not that I am an expert at it, I have a sharp eye for these things, as a Poser and Photoshop user. Alex

You make a good point, ardvarc37, about the model in this pic having good elbow and shoulder folds. However, victoria could do this just as well, the problem isn't with the mesh, it's with poser's somewhat primitive animation system. This guy's model is actually lower poly than victoria. It's a sub-d mesh so it's not a perfect comparison, but let's just say he has less detail worked in. It's a anime model, just by their nature they have less detail. There is next to no muscle defintion, and the face is stylized so you lack subtle features like cheek and eye socket definition. As for the textures, the most impressive surface is the skin and that's the result of a shader and lighting, not a texture. My point is, i've seen a lot of models, and you'll be hard pressed to find one that is as anatomically sound as the poser meshs.

okay then two questions: How do you know it's a sub D, and where can I check out a decent one? Alex

all you have to do is apply nurms subdivision to victoria and that mesh will be of the exact same quality as the high rez Vina D mesh. Also, saying that an anime mesh has less detail is somewhat a bad example, because you can easily morph a vicky mesh into an anime mesh just as easily as you could morph the vina d into a musculoskeletal one. Also, if you look closely at the meshes , while the vina d model has a much higher poly count all around, the poly-density at the knees and elbows are virtually similar. To answer fygomatics question, the higher poly mesh is better because you have much better control over the shape of the mesh, and therefore get much smoother animations. Once again, increasing the polycount of the victoria model would have very similar results. And vicky doesnt have to be rendered in poser, in fact I never render vicky in poser, I use mental ray. Also, poser can use any high quality texture that this model can, so the same texture applied to vicky would have ideally the same results. As stated, it is the quality of the renderer that produced the richer image, and a good texture. The mesh that Ken used is higher quality because the higher resolution allowed him to make a much smoother animation than you normally get with a low res vicky using joint parameters, and because his tools are superior to poser. However, the mesh itself is still comparable to both vicky and vina d, poser meshes are simply optimized to be used in poser. Take vicky out of poser and put her in max or lightwave and you have a very competitive match, especially if you up vickys poly count a bit.

Okay darkpheonix so it could not be a "sub-d" then. Could you possibly show us an example of the Victoria mesh rendered in Mental Ray? I would love to see that, or give us your URL with your art? Alex

ardvarc37: I'm just assuming on the sub-d, if he's using lightwave and shade, most likely he's modeling with sub-d's. I can post a shot of what a sub-d mesh looks like if you haven't seen one. darkphoenix: When I said a anime mesh has less detail, I meant feature details like cheekbone defintion. The anime mesh could still have a gigantic polycount if you felt like subdividing it. And as far as a higher poly count, that might be good in poser for using the magnet on, but in other packages it's a negative. You want your model as low poly as possible until the rendering stage, than you want it as dense as possible, that's why sub-d's rule.

Yes thank you fygomatic, I would like to see one. Are they poseable in Poser? Where can I download a sub-d? Alex

Stewer, you hit the nail on the head. Shade is one of the programs used for this kind of texture. I'm experimenting with a demo of it, but its in Japanese. However, the real question is whether or not poser CAN do this quality. I would think no on the render engine, but yes if a poser model was used for something like Bryce and Photoshop on the texture. The radiosity is doable in Bryce. So this is a challenge. Poser/bryce/PS. Make it happen.

When I say poser model, I don't mean the dorks that come with P4. Try Vickie 2 and increase the mesh count in Metasequoia.

Alright, this is a model i'm modeling in lightwave. On the left, you see the wireframe, as you can see it's pretty lo poly. On the right is a preview, a approximation of what it'll look like when rendered. Sub-d is the method in which you model with this low poly count and than at rendering time you choose how dense you want it. So this model might just have 200 polys, but I can render it at 100,000 polys giving me a super smooth mesh. Most modeling packages now support sub-d's in one way or another, but poser doesn't.

oh you're doing lightwave, too high-tech for me. Good explanation, that is a very cool technique with sub-d's and low to high poly-count, changable. Thank you for the reply, where can i get a sud-d human figure? Not for Poser or lightwave but for Truespace. Alex

ardvarc37, maybe try the truespace forum or freestuff, i imagine there's some free truespace sub-d figures out there somewhere.

did a serious google search and nothing matches. Thanks.

Ardvarc37, use Victoria it s as good as any :) If you want to reduce the poly count, open her obj in 3ds and reduce it. But actually, reducing it won t help you much, as it s not the poly count that makes the final image beautiful, but the renderer and it s ability to "mesh smooth" it at the rendering. If you want to see it, use the freeware version of metasequoia, open the hand demo that comes with it. it s a really really low poly count figure, but it s smoothed and subdivided when rendered. Shade looks like a really powerfull (and complicated) tool, but it s japanese and not translated :( Anyway, thanks for the answers guys ! Let s hope Poser5 can use some smoothing !! JF

Hopefully shade is insdeead released here some day. ardvarc, sub d isnt a particular type of figure as much as it is a method of modelling. Just about any mesh that wasnt created as a nurbs object can be sub - d as long as your program supports sub d. So if you have a poser figure, then you can use that as your sub d model. I dont know if truespace uses subdivision modeling though, I have never used it. Can you create edible poly's in truespace?

heh, just reread the post. ardvarc, im working on a hosting solution at the moment, when everything is up and running I'll remember to send you a link

Thank you Darkpheonix. Yes I believe so about Truespace as in editable polygons, I am not very proficient with it, I have a very hard time with interpreting the icons. A learning book for v. 5 never was published so I will not upgrade to v. 6. But I will try to learn v. 4.3 with the NR "Inside" book. Thanks for your help. Alex

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What's interesting is that this "virtual idol" thing is a big hit. She, TERAI YUKI, is in videos, music and everything else they can make abuck off of. There is an English version of Shade and a personal version coming according to their website.

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