It seems that one of our fellow rosity members has taken to harassing another whether its from embarrassment or what I dont know but I think a stop needs to be put to it. here's the situation. Steffyzz accuses Bobbie25 of stealing her Asia texture and trying to pass it off as her own. Its quite obvious to everyone else but steffyzz that this texture is not Asia. However Steffyzz gets Bobbies25's personal website shutdown until rosity steps in as a mediator and agrees that the texture Bobbie25 is using is NOT Asia. (it looks nothing alike Asia is clearly a digital photo and the other is clearly painted) NOW Steffyzz has accused Bobbie25 of stealing B-Gen Leo and the Gaia Lingerie Package1 Gaia Lingerie Package1. Yet here they are on her credit card statement that I have seen with my own eyes. 6/25/2002 2CHECKOUT.COM , 877-294-0273 , OH $35.00 6/27/2002 2CHECKOUT.COM , 877-294-0273 , OH $25.00 So now every time that Bobbie tries to post an image in the gallery here at rosity with either of these items it is being removed, based only on what steffyzz has told admins. Steffyzz has also been leaving nasty posts on Bobbies artwork accusing her of theft. Steffyzz then removed Bobbie25's login and password from her site so that Bobbie could not get purchase information from there and we only have her credit card to go bye. Also, although it is beyond rositys control, Steffyzz has been harassing Bobbie25 via email sending the same email over adn over again. ********************* here is the email: From: "ZetaStudios3D" | Block Address | Add to Address Book To: "Bobbie Sweet" Subject: Re: Illegal distribution and copyright infringment Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:38:44 +0200 To: Barbara S Remove as soon as possible from your renderosity gallery the images containing ZS3D products (Leo and Gaia Lingerie Package1), since you don't own the license to use them, since you don't have purchased them. The license is clear and is the buyer sole responsability to read, understand , and agree to the license at the time of purchase: "....1. PRODUCT LICENSE ZETASTUDIOS3D retains all copyrights to the enclosed materials. The Buyer is not purchasing the contents, only a personal non-exclusive, non-transferable License to use the contents. The license to use the contents is for a single user (The Buyer only) on a single computer (gifts to another user are NOT allowed).... You can't use or have the ZS3D products without having the license to use them, gifts are not allowed. Deleted the ZS3D products as soon as possible from your hard drive and remove those images containing our Products. We have also contacted the Renderosity Staff about this. We've asked you as written in our product license the proof of your purchase for the product B-Gen Leo showed in your gallery image and you was not able to provide it. "....1. PRODUCT LICENSE ZETASTUDIOS3D retains all copyrights to the enclosed materials. The Buyer is not purchasing the contents, only a personal non-exclusive, non-transferable License to use the contents. The license to use the contents is for a single user (The Buyer only) on a single computer (gifts to another user are NOT allowed).... ....3.PURCHASE DATA The Buyer have to store in a safe place all the datas and details of the purchase. This constituite the proof of the purchase and the ownership of the license to use the product. ZETASTUDIOS3D can request the purchase data under special circumstances if necessary...." We ask you for the last time the proof of your purchase for our product Leo: -number of ZS3D purchase and 2checkout order *************************** One email would be sufficient but steffyzz keeps sending it. And how exactly is Bobbie25 going to show proof of payment other than from her credit card statement when her login and password to the purchase info have been removed? So now you are asking why in the hell are you posting this and not Bobbie25? Because as a rosity member, and a rosity member, I am outraged that this kind of harassment is allowed. And if it where not for Bobbie25 being in a different country and the hassle of going through international courts, if it where Me Id take it to Judge Judy baby! And sue for slander and libel. Anyway with that said. I really hope that the admins will work with Bobbie25 to get this issue resolved, and stop allowing the harassment to take place here at rosity. Windy aka the Blooddoll

I've received an instant message from stefyzz that I found rather odd...in it she accused bobbie of being a thief..and told me I should get a refund for the purchase I made...yet, I never made any purchases.

Since the staff at rosity have seen fit to remove bobbie's gallery postings at the word of stefyzz alone...no proof at all of her allegations...though I've seen proof to the contrary...it leads me to the inevitable conclusion that some coercion was used in the possible form of "take them down or I'll pull my products out of your store".

This isn't the first time this individual has casts suspicion and doubt on other members (see the Blackhearted case) and this seems to be some sort of habitual thing.

When are the rest of the members of this place going to realize that a boycott of all of stefyzz's products is what it's going to take to show them that kind of behavior isn't going to be tolerated?

I would not only expect a formal and public apology from stefyzz for the irreputable damage she's done to another member's otherwise untarnished reputation...not to mention their site being shut down on the mere mention of a suspicion...I would also think a public and formal apology from whatever rosity staff was involved with the removal of bobbie's pics from the gallery is ALSO in order.

Ok, first I have to say that Steffy will never get any of my money! :?) Next off, all of Bobbie's works are originals and apparent to anyone who does have their head lodged up their ass. Thirdly, I hate friends getting their names dragged through the mud over piracy when they didn't (I have had this done to me and some others i know, its not pretty). 4th thing, WHY DOESN'T STEFF TRY SHOWING ANY PROOF BEFORE MAKING ACCUSATIONS!! SHE WOULD GET HER ASS LAUGHED OUT OF COURT IF SHE TRIED IT IRL!!! 5th, Why is Steff singling out Bobbie, who hasn't done anything to harm her? Hell, Bobbie has never even talked to her. Ok, next to get fired at is the R'osity staff. Why doesn't someone pick up a pair of balls and do something about Steffy? Just cause she is a known member doesnt mean she is above the rules of the TOS. If Bobbie want to, she could sue the different admins and moderators for letting Steff use R'osity to spread her libel and harrasement. From my experience, often there is too much reliance on hearsay and not proof. To tell the truth, its often hard to get an action out of the admins or mods since they are busy doing other things (on the few things I needed em for, I had to bug em for weeks), but I guess service comes with noteriety. Well, thats enough ranting from me.

Stefyzz's Asia vrs Bobbie25's Jillian IM's Stefyzz sent to edriver: Message #1 Message #2 In correction: my statement about Bobbie25's texture being painted was false i was thinking of a diffrent texture. but even still, they are totaly diffrent. and my appologies for adding the extra f in above in stefyzz's nick. Windy aka the Blooddoll

Except for that unhealthy green skin tint, they look different enough to me, too... and maybe some people are getting to big for their britches here? It's time Rosity stopped coddling people just because they don't want to lose a cash cow!

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

Nothing else more important in those kinds of forums ? Thanks you !

While I will say that stefyzz has got some extremely wonderful textures that I was looking forward to buying, I will most certainly NOT be buying them now or in the future. I do not appreciate her going around said person she feels is doing her wrong - if she feels aggressive enough in her accusations - why does she not confront the person directly?? To find out, like a sensible person, if there is actually a connection?? Mayhap she would have found a contemporary - someone who she could mentor. Instead she has alienated even more people than she has before.....

I am curious to hear what the Renderosity administration has to say about this...

@-Klaus... NO, there is NEVER anything more important than protecting the innocent, be it merchant or buyer or whoever. What if it was YOUR reputation being soiled? Do YOU have friends to stand up for you?

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

Okay, this might be y first time posting something here but I think blooddoll and edriver are right! To me it looks like Steff is controlling rostiy and from what I heard this is a community. But on the other side the admins don't seem to have the guts to stand up and check the situation. Noooooooooo, not the admins. They prefer having hot-shot-seller in the market place doing what she wants. I will not buy anything from her! And I ask all the people here at rosity whether they know me or not to do the same. Steff went one step too far. Harassment is no way to act. And Steff let me tell you something: You will not sell one single texture if I can prevent it. To the admins I have to say the following: Go on with being the lapdog of the upper-class that reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaallllllyyyyyyyyy is what the community wants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too was planning on buying a steffy texture, but now there is not a chance. Harrasment like this should not be going on. Even if Bobbie had stolen the textures (which did not happen), there is such a thing as innocent until proven guilty. Her stuff should not have been removed until positive proof of theft had been presented. I can promise one thing about this however. If the 'rosity staff does not fix this situation, I will be taking my business elsewhere. I am sure this means nothing to them, but if enough of us do the same thing, then maybe they'll figure it out.

RE: Walkeress, I expect the admins to take into light the facts of the situation, the credit card reciepts, the harassing email, the fact that the items where not pronounced stolen until they the admins themselves agreed that her texture did not match the Asia texture. I expect them to be fair and impartial, and do what needs to be done. My biggest complaint about the admin right now is the insto removal of any thing that Bobbie25 is posting to the gallery all based on a cry of wolf from stefyzz with no hard eveidance provided from stefyzz, when there has been tons of evidance to the contrary from bobbie25 However I will not pass my final judgement on the admins unitl they say that they have done all that they can do, and I can see some sort of result or lack there of.

Hey Blooddoll, you are right! But removing everything done by bobbie is a sign of punishment. I will not tolerate this sort of execution before the anyone is guilty and bobbie is NOT guilty. She is innocent until proven guilty. I think the admins should get up and stand up to protect the community not the members brining in the "big money"

Hi, I removed the Art Gallery images. I made the wrong decision. I appologize for that. I should not have removed the images without more investigation on my part. I was wrong. It wont happen again. As far as the harassment is concerned. If it is happening on Renderosity and is in violation of our TOS we will take action on that. If it is via private E-Mailings we have no control over that. To the best of my understanding Stefy and Bobbie25 are dealing with this over E-Mails with each other. Again - I made a very wrong decision. The Art Galleries are not my area and I should not have dealt with the problem. I should have asked the Forum/Art Gallery admin to work on the situation, which I have. I appologize to Bobbie25 for my improper decision in regards to the removal of her Art Gallery images. Clint

Clint Hawkins
MarketPlace Manager/Copyright Agent

---

All my life I've been over the top ... I don't know what I'm doing ... All I know is I don't wana stop!
(Zakk Wylde (2007))

---

Kudos to ClintH...that took alot of guts to post that public apology. Because of that, you have been forgiven (in my eyes) and all is well between us. Now...if the same sentiment could be garnished by Stef...then we'd be well on our way to being a community once again.

Thanks E. I screwed up ... anytime I screw up I always stand up to my mistake(s). I feel really bad about removing the images without the proper investigation. I shouldnt have gotten involved but rather let the proper admins deal with it. Clint

Clint Hawkins
MarketPlace Manager/Copyright Agent

---

All my life I've been over the top ... I don't know what I'm doing ... All I know is I don't wana stop!
(Zakk Wylde (2007))

---

I agree, edriver, in both parts!

Clint, thank you for your public appology, everyone in chat at the moment seems to be extreamly impressed :) It is very much appreciated. As far as the emails go, they are not trying to work something out, its a matter of stefyzz spaming bobbie25 with the same msg over and over again, however as I stated above I relize that that is not a rosity issue, But I really think it needs to be taken into consideration with the rest of the harassment that is happening here on rosity. Bobbie still cant get her website hosted becasue of stefy and this mess.

Full marks to ClintH on having the balls to admit he was wrong. Clint, that has increased my (already great) respect for you. As for the thread, for what it's worth, i believe the TOS should apply equally to all, and I am appalled at the way Bobbie has lost out in all this.

And once again Clint proves out to be super cool :) But, there isn't a texture gorgeous enough to justify something like this. Stefy just lost another customer - I won't be buying from her again. What she's doing to Bobbie she could do to me next, who knows.

Thou must not offend ZZ Goddess of textures for she shall be mean and vengeful, and call on her devotees to extract great and evil punishment thee!!!! Many are the poor souls who who have been cast aside by this dark cloud of WOE!! so again i say all us mortals must walk with cushioned feet for we do not want the all knowing gaze to fall upon you!!!

clint ignore that devotees part ok ;)) srry kyle

I would Like to take the time to tell you all ty very much ty for the im sorry and ty to every one i will try to do this in my very bad type but i do ty all so very much to take the time to help some one out who is new to here and for the im sorry hun it is ok how to you to know you were trying to plez every one at the same time i hold you at not bad feelings xoxox

========================================================
Typing Advisory :
Read at your own risk! May cause
dizziness, naseua,drooling, and temporary blindness.
Surgeon General recommends running the txt through a spell checker.

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

First off, Clint, you're class act! I'd echo the sentiment of most everyone else, in that, I love her work but won't buy it because of her tendency to freak out on folks. Anyone remember this? **"YOU MUST CREDIT ME IN RENDERS WHICH FEATURE MY PRODUCTS"** Have a good long look at the evidence and then reference the TOS. This isn't the first time she's stirred the sh**t so to speak. I've seen people removed for, at least in my mind, much less mal intentioned behavior. It would be great see some **justice pie** doled out once in a while to a top seller who got way out of line. Just my two cents. It's times like this when I really shouldn't have super user rights to PoserCity. I usually just post exactly what's on my mind.

If you want to up your content game, get schooled to be a pro with Sixus1 Mentoring today!

Clint, its cool you apologized. I just hope stef does the same. bobbie, get in touch with me. the gears have started turning...

I swore once upon a time long long ago that I would never get involved in any kind of dissent again. Too many problems come with getting involved, but this is just TOO much for me to pass up. I had never purchased anything from SteffyZZ before as I thought her prices were way overblown, even if she IS a master at her craft, but recently I did break down and buy her Gaia lace from her website. It's a wonderful product and I love it to pieces, but now I have serious doubts about using it ever again. And for sure I will NOT be making any further purchases from this psychotic nightmare. When is it all going to stop? When are the Admins at Rosity going to realize that she is a loose cannon and is apt to go off on anyone, at any time. I feel really bad for Bobbie25. No one deserves this kind of abuse. Most especially an innocent party. I looked at the two textures exhibited side by side, and even a blind man could tell they are in no way, shape or form even remotely alike! This is a clear case of libel and slander, and I hope Bobbie25 takes some kind of legal recourse. And tho ClintH showed himself to be a true gentleman by admitting to his error in judgement...my question would be: WHEN are the rest of the Admins involved in this fiasco going to do the same???

SteffyZZ has a habit of doing this. She has some gorgeous textures, but from how I've seen her treat people, including paying customers, she'll never get my business. She has inserted extra licensing details in her readme's which contradicted the licensing in Renderosity. She harrassed at least one person who HAD paid for one of her texture and used it - non-commercially at that. When she was confronted, she appologized in public, then kept up the harrassment in private. I've only seen 2 horrible merchants here ethics-wise. (I won't name the other one except to confirm someone else's complaints about them.) Considering how many merchants Rendie has, that's not too bad.

ClintH....nice of you to apologize. However, what was done to bobbie25, here, today is a cause of action for a very easy torte case. and, i wonder if you know it. i loved the posercity post. good stuff there. could not have said it better, myself. now, i ask...is bobbie25's website back up and running? or, still down....? causing her real financial damages? even if it was only down a couple of hours because of this steffy stupidity....you owe her...since, steffy is under the legal blanket of being a marketplace merchant, here. not to mention the fact that you all sided with her, early on....causing damages to bobbie25's reputation and, good name. as a new member, that was a horrible disservice to her future reputation. steffyzz....talented though she may be in cutting and pasting a photograph over a vicki template...is one very, very loose cannon. do you all need that? 'cause some day, someone, who does not give a rat's patootie about whether or not cash cow, steffy takes her toys and runs away....WILL SUE YOU. you folks have a business, here. run it correctly...or give it to someone who can/will. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Hmmmm...Well to be honest Im not on that much anymore since my job change...but...I think its very disapointing to think that in a world of many problems..here we are talkng about this..I think if the admin finds it in the best interest to elliminate both of them for sake of argument then so be it....I like everyone here at rosity I poke no fun at anyone ..well ok maybe edriver,,,just kidding..But in all seriousness..I found this to be a great place to share with others and learn from fellow artists as well. If its true shame on her..if not shame on him... Sorry Just my opinion...........Mqshocker

This is a shame .. after seeing all Blooddoll shown .. I have to say Steffy needs to have an eye test or is greedy over other peoples hard work. I see similar coloring in the two but thats it. Jillian is more porous skin, the brow work is totally different (a little too much smoothing in my opinion) but the skin over all seems more realistic than Asia. It's a sad time when jealousy clouds competition. Dan Oh and clint .. don't worry too much about the mistake ... when I was administrating an IRCD once ... I banned the whole server with an /akill @ .... never toy with that command unless you understand it LMAO

@Poppi last time I talked to Bobbie earlier today her website is still down.

Attached Link: http://www.weblogicsitedesign.com/

The sponsor link under Bobbie25's gallery images is http://www.weblogicsitedesign.com/ The site appears to be partially working. On another note, the site offers an "interesting" service supplying "backup CDs" of various 3D software. The link is dead right now, but earlier I clicked it, and saw that a "backup CD" for Bryce5 was available for only $50. There were many other software "backups" available.

Latest update is Audre is going after Bobbie, having her submit samples of her work to compare. Also Audie is questioning her about things unrelated to r'osity, such as things that were on the site that got shut down (like what was on space she rented out to someone).

I was talking to Bobbie25 earlier this week before this all started, and even called up Audre to chat with her about this issue. Bobbie25 has all of her work, from start to finish, so she has proof that she has created her JILLIAN from scratch. All the in between work, etc. I have worked with ASIA in the past , and as I was looking at it the other day, comparing it withJillian they are nothing alike. It's very obvious that they aren't they same, so I dont know what kinda drugs or chemicals StefyZZ was exposed to, but she should go out for some air for a while :P Bobbie25's Jillian is a world apart from Asia , and personally, much more alluring and beautiful. My humble opinion. ClintH, you are a better man then most for stepping up and admitting that you messed up, and for hopefully making things right again .. I salute you! HHmmm..... perhaps now I should make a cute image much like my picture of ART ... but call it Stef ;)~ Bobbie25 .. we're here for you hon :) Stephen aka MtnCub

Ok I deleted my last post, some of you I know read it. I deleted it because I have since come to learn some more facts. 1. apparently the texture issue was never resolved, because based off of some IM's that audre sent Bobbie, it seems that audre deleted the emails that had the texture in it whith out ever looking at them. 2. about 2 weeks ago, her husband bought her a new computer and reformated the hardrive of the old one so he could have it for his own use. She did not save everything to her zip disk because a lot of the stuff that she had made herself was stored on her PERSONAL website, but it all was taken down and deleted by the people who HOST the webstie based off of the accusations made by stefyzz. So despite the fact that we have the two textures rendered side by side as an example, it looks like Bobbie is going to get hosed by rosity because she no longer has the actual textuer, thanks once again to stefyzz, WHO NEED I POINT OUT YET AGAIN, Has done this sort of shit before to other people, and gotten away with it. Now Im getting angry. In my previous post I had mentioned this being like a rape victim, being blamed for her own rape in a court of law simple because she wore a mini skirt and a halter top outside her own home. This is looking to be more like a Repeat Raper, getting off once again.

1. apparently the texture issue was never resolved, because based off of some IM's that audre sent Bobbie, it seems that audre deleted the emails that had the texture in it whith out ever looking at them.

2. about 2 weeks ago, her husband bought her a new computer and reformated the hardrive of the old one so he could have it for his own use. She did not save everything to her zip disk because a lot of the stuff that she had made herself was stored on her PERSONAL website, but it all was taken down and deleted by the people who HOST the webstie based off of the accusations made by stefyzz.<<

What!?!

So now the texture in question is conveniently gone? HUmmmmmmm...not that I am questioning Bobbies honesty and integrety...but.....hummmmmmm.

I do not believe the textures are the same....but nevertheless...

Very Interesting.

XSASHAX The textures are not convieniently gone. What a thing to say.Bobbie is as honest as they come.Alot has happened and there is alot of stressful stuff happening,PEOPLE FORGET. And the textures have been sent(Twice now)They didnt even look at the textures the first time and deleted them without looking at them.

It just seems pretty damn strange to me that a texture of that quality and the hard work that seems to have gone into it would not have a few copies burned onto disk for safekeeping.

Even if such a thing like Steffy accusations had not happened some provisions should have been made to at least protect hard work to some degree. Don't most merchants have multiple copies of their hard work backed up?

Like I said, I do not think the textures are the same!

But in light of this carelessness revealed on Bobbies part to not protect her work against catastrophe, would not the average viewer of this thread think something seems fishy?

Sasha

Blooddoll wrote "she no longer has the actual texture" She should have backed the stuff up onto a CD-ROM or onto another hard disk??? Elementary precaution. If say:- Qwerty posts an AK47 Poser model. I get hold of a real AK47 and a measuring ruler (I already have a modeler program) and make and post an AK47 Poser model. Then my model and Qwerty's model would look like each other because they both look like real AK47's. How safe would I be from accusations of breaking copyright?

"On another note, the site offers an "interesting" service supplying "backup CDs" of various 3D software. The link is dead right now, but earlier I clicked it, and saw that a "backup CD" for Bryce5 was available for only $50. There were many other software "backups" available. " Thank you for mentioning that little tidbit of information, I found it interesting that no one else did. "Backup" copies of Photoshop too; I'm sure Adobe would like to hear about that one. It never ceases to amaze me how fast people turn on each other in this forum. Stefy does have a habit of sending tons of mail in an attempt to get a problem solved quickly, but you would be surprised how many times people have ripped off her textures and sold them and NOTHING was done until she raised holy hell. I can't side 100% with Stefy on this issue unless I can do a hands-on comparison of course (which I've done with her copyright infringements before), but every complaint I have personally heard her file or worked with her to resolve HAS been justified. It won't surprise me at all if this one is as well. Take care. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

You would think that SteffyZZ would have learned from the last incident of accusing someone unjustly here at Rosity. Many people purchase items under different names, not just the names they are known as online. Looking at the picture with the textures side by side, only an idiot couldnt see that the textures are not the same. What im wondering is how many other people have been unjustly banned here or at her site but have never brought it out openly. Judging from the last incident, how can SteffyZZ harrass and accuse people like this, get them banned from here, and when found she was wrong in her accusations, is not banned from here herself. People who make honest comments in galleries get banned, yet people like her Rosity does nothing about. It kinda shows the favortism that vendors, or she herself has here doesnt it? Although ClintH apologized for his mistake, why did it take only 1 admin to wipe a community member off the face of Rosity instead of several people making that decision?? To me, that showed favortism on behalf of SteffyZZ. Makes you wonder who is going to be next. It was a shame that Bobbie25's gallery was deleted so quickly and now her own website is down due to the flippant, unjust, psychotic bahavior of SteffyZZ. I hope many people read this thread so they can make the correct decision to NEVER buy from her again. And if you do decide to buy, better wear a hardhat and be prepared for the consequences that are surely to befall you.

Whether an alleged infringement is obvious or not, Renderosity should not take action based on word alone. I don't care whos word it is. Images should be submitted by the person making the accusation. Someone's reputation is too easily damaged by kneejerk reactions to suspicions.

It doesn't look like the textures are similar but I agree, a photoshop comparison is the best way.

Regardless, I think this thread just saved me thirty bucks. Even if stefyzz is justified in the acusation, her handling of it is very imature.
I don't believe you can force someone to credit a texture that is purchased. It's a nice thing to do, especially in the galleries but to force it? And to IM people who might have purchased it under another name or email? I couldn't do business with someone who wanted so much control.

...... Kendra

Apparently there was some confusion when I asked bobbie about getting the textures back over to audre, as english is not her native language, and after I had posted my last remark, found out that she did indeed have a copy of the texture she made and was going to resend it to audre before I took off for a couple of hours. As far as this linking to back up cds I dont know anything about that, did not get a chance to ask bobbie about it, although I will at a later time. However it seems silly to me to offer back up cds for 50 bucks when you can get that shit free all over the web just by using kazaa. who knows. I will ask her about it when I talk to her next.

I agree. SteffyZZ didnt learn from the last incident. I had almost gotten over that and was making a decision to buy some of her new textures, but after this, no texture is worth it!! Its like Marcabros says, we would all have to wear hardhats awaiting the storm that would be sure to come. I dont want to have to wait around looking over my shoulder. Looking at the two images side by side, sheesh, they are NOT the same. And it makes you wonder, if the queen of textures thinks the one on the right is an altered version of hers, then maybe she is getting old and needs specs. I hope Bobbie25 can get this situation resolved to her benefit. SteffyZZ, fraid you lost a customer. Not only me, but it seems like many. Get your head on straight, girl!!!

****

I remember some accusations of hers before ... hitting talented artists and creators. All the ones I remember of were falsely accused and I also remember hearing of her IM'ing purchasers and threatening them with lawsuits. Yet, under another name they did buy them. From all that I have heard .. I first off am glad I have never bought anything of hers. Nor will I ever. I had one thing of hers in my wishlist and deleted it. I believe in customer service, customer satisfaction, fair competition, etc.. I am and have always been highly business oriented and am starting my own soon. I also have a belief in honor, what SteffyZZ has shown her ways to be are both dishonorable and unbusiness-like. I also know what it's like when hard drives fail. I admit, sometimes I lay too much trust in my computers. Sometimes I don't fully back up as I should .. and have lost files that were needed for business measures or transactions. My advice to Bobbie is once this is free and cleared, as I see no reasons it won't be, request the data from your host that was taken down. Most, not all, still keep backups of questionable data in the case of a lawsuit and evidence is needed. Dan

Above is a capture of two portions of the backup CD portion of Bobbie's site when it was available. I'm not accusing them of being pirates, just decide however you wish. "due to the flippant, unjust, psychotic bahavior of SteffyZZ" Um, I write to Stefy at least twice a week and she's one of the kindest and most friendly people I know. Plenty more people around here seem a tad more psychotic to me. :) "How can stefy copyright a photograph unless she took the picture herself? The one she used to make the textures? Did she take the photo herself?" It's my understanding that she did take all the pictures herself, just as Catharina Hardings does. "steffyzz....talented though she may be in cutting and pasting a photograph over a vicki template...is one very, very loose cannon" LOL, oh-k SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

I think its funny that SteffyZZ can cause all this commotion, yet she hasnt shown her face here in the forum yet. If she wants to save sales, she had better drop her psychosis and at least give her side of the story. Or maybe she is just to paranoid and knows that she is wrong. Then again, maybe the admins here got smart (heaven forbit) and banned her?? That would be too much to wish for!!! Looks like someone has deleted the link to the proof that was posted in the gallery. The images that were side by side. In thread number 4 that Blooddoll posted. The admins/mods are at it again???? Stefyzz's Asia vrs Bobbie25's Jillian Why the proof get deleted. ??? What the hell is wrong that no admin or mod (without ClintH) doesn't do anything ???

Even if there where links on Bobbies site, which I dont know for sure if they where even there or not, because i have not seen them with my own eyes. That should be delt with sepratly from this. but yes it should be delt with. As far as this issue goes. Stefyz is falsly accusing Bobbie of theft of 2 of her products which Bobbie has a credit card statement for showing proof of purchase. (that would work in any fine retail store you would go to here in the states so why would that not work here at rosity for proof of purchase?). And accusing her of stealing Asia, which if you got to see the compairasion before it was deleted (which is another thing that pisses me off) you could see that they where vastly diffrent, the little flakes in the skin where not even the same pattern. And suddenly out of no ware this accusation about the webpage comes across, and because of that stefyz is going to get away with her behavoir?! Thats BS. The website thing needs to be investigated seprately from this issue. It has nothing to do with stefyz's harassment and should not be considered in this case. NOW I go watch my movie damn it.

SnowSultan yes i rent space to ppl on my site i told the renter that i was opening the site up just for poser and that his stuff would have to go as you can tell the hole site is beeing redone and i have been getting all my space back that part of site was to be off when i got a link to rosity on the front page but as i see from this it is not and this i will take care of asap and i to ask you am i not to reant space out on a site that i own ? and Y is that i can not reant out space and what dos my reant out of space on my website have to do with this big mess and as for what a back up cd is still learning that one So i say to you ALL ty for kind words and i ask that this may stop now i see so many i want to thank but i ask that it may stop now i see my lawer on monday and i fix this i e-mail stefzz for the number to her lawer and we go from there BUT TY ALL and this stop now plez dont wish any wrongs just want it to end she giving me head pain lol xoxoxoxo Bobbie25

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If you were renting that space out, then I can understand if it was not your intent to sell those backup CDs. Thanks for clarifying that. Just be careful who you rent to. :) SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

Ok The backup CD's bit, .. There are various ways to look at this. .. though instantly most think ooohhh warez transfering ... yes that is ONE possibility though highly doubtful ... True an image speaks a thousand words .. yet sometimes those words are often misinterpreted. There are legit companies out there that do backup cds also. hrrrmm should we send them to the companies they make backups from or for? and in truth every host out there, that is a competant web host, make backups of their clients websites. OOooooooohhh smell copywrite infringement, get real. Back up CD's are there for those of us that cannot afford spending an extra $200 USD on a cdr or cdrw drive. Yes there are lower priced ones .. but thats an avg here and other countries it can cost higher. Making back up cd's for clientel, which are the customers or people you do business with, is legal practice. So lets not jump the gun bc of an image from her site. Her clientel is 3D Artists. So her prime means of drawing them is by offering to back up their 3d graphics or graphics production CD's. And as Blood stated ... that is not the case.. the case is Asia and Jillian not Back up CD's.

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Whether or not Bobbie has links to something wrong on her site or not does not mean that she did not legally buy or create the texture in question. I myself would never buy a product from SteffyZZ because of her past and current actions and her restrictions upon them. Me and my husband use the same poserfiles. They are on my computer and if he was to use a texture of hers (if I had bought one) would she be harrassing him because he used it on my computer? Speaking as a merchant This is just plain awful buisness practice. Speaking as a buyer NOTHING in this world could get me to buy anything of hers and be harrassed about it later. SteffyZZ really needs to calm down and stop accusing people of wrong doing And if she is harrassing people then she really needs to back off. She doesn't just make herself look bad when she does this. She makes the whole marketplace look bad for it. Storm My 2 cents

With all the talk of anti-warez on this site, you should have gotten a clue that your renters were not exactly the sort you would want to be seen to be associated with.

I had the understanding that umblefugly also shared your website? Then he should have also been aware of the warez activity going on there.

But I noticed that umblefugly also changed the link on his "sponsored by" under the picture of your side-by-side comparison of Jillian and Asia to something called 'goodbye'. When I last clicked on the link to his sponsored by site I was bombarded by pop-ups of teen-age porn sites.

So Macabros...to answer your question, the item got pulled because umblefugly linked porno web sites to that picture, which of course, is against the TOS.

Not looking very good, in fact, seems a pretty sordid business.

Congrats Storm you said it right. SteffyZZ might be a little loose in her brain if she is acting this way all the time and maybe she would start harrasm your husband if he would use the stuff you bought. And the question is. How far can she go before the admin /mods will stop her.

And another thing,the only stuff I had on that site was Melissa, my Lightning FX and a link to my Art Gallery here.I did not share the site with her,and Audry knows that.

@ XSashaX I did not see any pop ups but I guess the admin/mods just took this of because it was a wish of SteffyZZ. I think someone is licking someone elses bum :))

Marcabros... To tell the truth I don't think it should be the admin or Mods job to stop her. Truth is. The only one's who can stop her are those buying from her. IF you don't like how she acts Don't buy her stuff. Don't give her your money. Should mods/admins get involved in her shenanagins? No. They should tell her to deal with it on her own. But it's not their responsibility to tell her to shut up. The way to hurt her, honestly hurt her is hit it where it hurts her most. Her wallet. umblefugly , XSashaX, if you are going to argue take it to email! Not drag this thread down with your fighting. Thank you. Storm

Actually, Stormrage, it should be the admins/mods jobs to stop her from getting people wiped out of this community, just at her whim. I agree that the best way to get back at her is not buy her stuff, which I wont and Im sure others have decided not to either.

****

Nope I don't agree with you because Members get banned for writing truthful comments and those Lady can act like a bitch and not get banned.

You are right Stormrage.I deleted the post with the bad language.

Fyrene, I agree with you there. And I wasn't meaning that the mods should NOT stop her from doing that. The mods/admins should Stay out of it all together unless she has cold hard proof 100% undeniable proof that What she says is true but even then, i wouldn't trust even that. but the mods/admins should not get involved just because she says WAREZ!

umblefugly, thank you very much :)

"but the mods/admins should not get involved just because she says WAREZ!" That statement I totally agree with you on. Its one of the reasons Im a regular over at 3DCommune now. Something like this would never happen over there! :)

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Fyrene.. it's not just Rosity it can happen on. It can happen anywhere. Most merchants aren't so Mental, some can be and that makes the whole place look bad. Unfortunantly.

this seems to be whats happening more and more here, and alot of ppl have left because of it. 1. this is and art site where ppl can share in something that they enjoy. 2. this is alse a site where ppl come to learn thing, and expand on what they know 3.this is also a site where ppl get to know each other and good friendships are made then something happened and it became who had the most views, who sold the most items and who brought in the most members... those ppl end up getting a level of power that they dictate how this site is run and how can stay or must be banned. how many ppl are gonna leave because of this now?? will there be another great migration to other art sites?? Kyle

hmm..... what happens to the girl who cried wolf all the time ? the story however ends when the girl turned to wolf....... and hairy (yikes). I've been there, I know every threads, and it doesn't look like that someone is playing sportive and bussiness competitive. upon the credibility, the admin should put a high concern for the person next actions !!!. Yes I believe that there will be another one........ who can stop a loose canon ?

Sometimes, one has to move on when one is not happy, kingkyle. I wasnt happy here, so I found another home at 3DCommune and 2 galleries at Elfwood. I come back here only to check out the freebies and the MP for exclusives. Wish there wasnt such a thing as exclusives. Oh, and to post messages periodically in these forums when the need arises :) Tonight, the need arose LOL :)

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@deestilo I thought it was a little boy who cried wolf :) Bark, bark, bark :)

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sorry fyrene.........

it suppose to be the girl who cried "warezzzzz".
BAREZ, BAREZ, BAREZ........ :)

I bet she's making a book "those who are my enemys" and it will be a best seller too.... on children books department, and sex-kinky stuff.........

Not really defending her here - but sometimes to "protect" their own work they can get too over protective and cause issues like this. I know as a author that I got extremely protective when stories of mine were appearing to be "sold" on a webpage. However I found that those I thought were being sold where being supplied free (which was a part of my "agreement" to websites)... --- okay they were also selling a couple of my stories - but I think you can see the simularity :P Now I don't know the history of this artist, and I won't agree that she went about this the right way, but by far is this the first time this has happened. Almost 6 months ago I remember another instant in where someone accused someone else of stealing a model, and calling it their own. Hell someone told me I had even sold the Jesus picture I did, then deleted that message the moment he figured out he was wrong. So accusing people is the easiest thing to do on the internet - especially since you have little to no risk. As for the "stolen" articles - I would suggest that Bobby contact her credit card companie and ask them to fax stefyzz with the details. This is proof of purchase, and as such if stefyzz doesn't accept it as such - and continues to cause Bobby problems - then Bobby has a real case against Stefyzz for Harrassement. Bobby should then contact her own ISP and place a complaint regarding Stefyzz, and indicate the evidance in her favour. Thus her ISP will then contact the ISP of Stefyzz and things will happen to disconnect Stefyzz from the internet. If this doesn't help - then there is always legal action which can be taken against the harrassment, and it is also possible to get Bobby's bank to get invovled. Either way - Bobby has to make steps to rectify the situations and if Stefyzz doesn't come to the party, then Bobby has true legal options open to her.

The biggest problem with this that everyone seems to forget, is that bobbie cant just go and file a normal lawsuit, she would need to take it to a international court (I believe) and If shes like most of us, she probably cant afford something like that.

I'm not sure what country she is in - however most have International Procedures for cases that cause International Commerce issues. I know that the New Zealand Commerce Commission will investigate issues with a international. Example - I was being "harrassed" by a company called a4Tech - where one of their employees was not only supplying my email to others, he was also spamming me with a 1.7meg file twice a day. I contacted the Ministry of Consumer affairs who stated that they would investigate the issue if it continued. Along with the Commissioner of Privacy, and also my ISP (who were the ones who finally got the A4TECH management to do something about the situation). As you can see - just because someone is in another company, many people will do things about it - if they can see a sure cut case... Personally I would suggest that she contact VISA first - if the issue continues Bobby can tell Visa of the issue, and thus get the money reverse. If it is too late for that - VISA (if it is VISA) will investigate the issue themselves, and can act in some cases as mediator. I believe when things get ugly Stefyzz will back down (after all it is more then her image here at stake now - if the credit card companies feel she is causing problems they will blacklist her company, which means that no creditcard company will deal with her company anymore - which I have seen done before). WiNC

@WiNC wow thats good to know :)thanks for the info! Now I dont know how long this one will last because I even checked it the sponser is a porn site, I have asked umblefugly to remove the porn site as a sponcer so that we can continue to keep the image up but... who knows.... so here it is one more time Asia Vs Jillian

Well now someone has "asked" my opinion: I have put the two pictures in Photoshop and looked at them very closely - and they are not the same texture. However, the only problem is - there is a simularity in the texture which could cause "uncertainy" in my area. I have looked at them and if you blur the Stefyzz one a lot you will see that the darkness in Bobbie25's texture is very simular. The lashes, lips and eyebrows are different - but as you all know you can set them yourself in something else. Example take Stefyzz's texture and blur it in photoshop... Blur it a lot, and while you are look at how the top and the body seem very simular to Bobbie's... At the same time - look at the nose. This is probably the biggest area - since the blurring doesn't effect the nose all that much. Now look under the nose, there you see the darkness patching - okay you have blurred a lot - now increase the brightness of the texture. There is a lot of lightlines, and darklines that are very simular. Now - I'm not saying it is Asia's texture (I can't - I don't have the proof) - However I can see personally how confusion can happen. The problem is - to do the work that would be needed to make the texture look as good as Bobbies - to use Asia's - it would have been a lot easier for Bobby to have create her own texture. For example - on the bridge of the nose you will see that the the skin there is darker then it is would be in the blurred version. This would mean that a whole section would have to be brightness inverted then altered, and then merged back into head texture. All this work just to "copy" a texture - ... I think not. Either way, the real point of this is that Stefyzz SHOULD have communicated with Bobbie before all the shit hit the fan, and should have gone through a civil process of dealing with the issue before it blew up into something like it has. It appears from history that Stefyzz has problems doing this - and all it hurts is herself. I hope that she learns that this type of thing is bad not just for her, but also for the community. WiNC

Just to be on the safe side here - again I am not saying that I believe the texture is stolen (or not) because in my eyes that has already been decided. I am saying however - too all those that believe there isn't any way you can say one is the other - that there is enough simularities to make it possible to "believe" it was a copy. Which again - gives Stefyzz the right to make civil communications with Bobby regarding the situtation. IT DOES NOT however give her the right to Harrasse Bobby because of it - and as such I frimly offer any support I can to Bobby if she needs it. WiNC

So then the question would be, If in fact Jillian derived from Asia, would she still be infringing upon stefyzz's copyright because I know if you take an image and change a certian % of it it is no longer considered the origional image but a new one and hence a new copyright. I dont know if that is in fact what happend but if it is Im curious to know. ok off to bed I go enough of this for one day

All I can say is.. I wish I had nothing better to do than surf the gallery and compare all the images there to my buyer list. ;)

all ive read in this entire thread is the first few posts, so mayhap there have been some drastic changes halfway through, or even a resolution. but i have to put my .02 cents in. stefy, you STILL havent learned, have you? still up to your bullying, strong-arm tactics, huh? im not going to dredge up all the bullshit youve put people through here in the past, nor am i going to get into this argument because i just dont give a shit. i really dont. im just pointing out the monumental hypocrisy here, where you pull your store items for attention, then promise your costomers youll take back all of your bullshit licenses added after point of sale like the one requiring that buyers credit you in any image using your textures. where you also promise you will stop your tactic of cross-checking gallery renders against your buyers list and then harassing the person through threatening and insulting IMs and emails. yet here you are again. big suprise. as for your little buyer's list-checking gestapo bullshit - do you have any idea how many times i surf through the galleries and see my store items in renders by people who i am certain are not on my buyer's list? more than i can count. and what do i do? do i message them something like: 'you are nasty warez kid and liar. buy you my texture within 24 hours or you will be banned from renderosity and taken will be legal action on you'? no. i comment on the image, and appreciate the fact that someone is giving me free advertising. i do not condone warez, but i do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. many people have renderosity merchandise bought for them as a gift, or use a separate account for purchases, or have relatives/friends who create accounts for the sole purpose of making a gift purchase. with your bullying tactics and hypocritical BS youre not fighting warez at all, all youre doing is displaying your true colours to your rapidly diminishing base of legitimate customers - and widening the gap between merchants and rosity members by casting us as tyrannical, profiteering whiners. with love from canada, -gabriel

Yeah - it would be against the "law" (as to speak) - becuase the original was is copyrighted... HOWEVER - - - Now this is where it gets really ugly in the texture business - because unless you can prove that you own the rights to the original photo - you are yourself breaking copyright law if you take a photo (from lets say playboy) and use that photo in making your own texture. Proving that they used a copyright photo would almost be impossible (especially if the texturer is good) - however never-the-less, just because it can't be proved - it is still against the law (if you don't believe me - go read copyright laws in US, and UK regarding use of photos and alterations of photos for profit). It would be like using a photo from someone else, using it in your own picture and then taking credit for it... bad vibes... :) Now - to confuse things even more, there is also a statement regarding academic use. Which states for academic use you can use 10% - however at the same time you still have to give reference to the original creator. And I'm not 100% sure how that refers to art/pictures - I believe that is only for the written word. I think art is covered simularly to computer programs - in which you can not use any part of a computer program for your own use - even 10% of it is against the law (unless otherwise stated by the person who made the program - ie - open source) It is the same with stories - someone might take your story and alter it - blur the text, the plot and then release it - if there is enough "noticeable" and "traceable" simularities it could allow the person to go to court to try and prove the person copied the work. There was a music example of that a while back also - where a song was used which had the same melody and bassline then another, but it had the same words - however the original creator of the piece wasn't given royalities for using the song. So back to the case at hand - yes, if the case was that someone used someone elses texture to make their own texture - they could be in trouble, especially if it was proveable. However - the proof that would need to be presented to prove that would have to be very high - because no jury would convict someone on "oh the shades are simular" - there would have to be proof on how it was changed, where it was changed, the process that would be required to change it, and then the money value and if it was worth the effort. I can't say that is case in question is proveable or not - the "law" (well the Renderosity Law) has already spoken on this matter - from what I'm informed, and they are the jury in this case... What I am stating is that people can still be angry at Stefyzz - however be angry for the right reasons. She had a right to question the simularities between the two textures (hell I would of) because of the clear reasons I have explained above However she had/has NO right to be rude about it, harrasse Bobby after the before and after the fact, and certainly has no right to cause issues with products that Bobby has proof she has purchased. And if she is being Harrased outside of Renderosity she HAS to take this up with her Credit Card company, and ISP, and try and deal with it. There is nothing you, I, or anyone else here can do until she has taken those steps (which I hope she has) to deal with this issue. She doesn't deserve this - no one does. There is a "law" in this community - the moderators, and the administration - I would of personally thought stefyzz should have learnt by now that negative attacks on people don't help her, or the community. She needs to learn to use the "law" to mediate between her and others before she starts harrassing and judging members of our wonderful community. -------------- I have been asked in private what my knowledge is about copyright and stuff like that. I have done a few papers in university, and have also been a "auhtor" for over 10 years, and also had to find out my rights before I did electronic posting/stories helped (which I'm sorry - electronic rights still arn't much yet - unless you have the money). In regards to photoshop - I have been using that program for photo manipulation/desktop design and other stuff for about 6 years now - so know a bit about altering one thing to be another. WiNC

The reason I originally posted that backup CD pic was not to derail the thread, but because there was concern that Bobbie was selling a texture which possibly contained elements from Stefy's Asia and it had also not been stated that she was renting that web space to a third party at the time. Anyone would have doubts about a person who was accused of selling someone else's texture and who also sold 'backup' copies of Photoshop and Poser on the side. However, Bobbie said she was renting the space, and I will take her word for it. If WiNC could see and point out such similarities between Jillian and Asia from those pictures alone, then I believe there is a fairly good chance of an infringement being present. I'll admit that I do not quite know why Stefy would be angry about someone editing her texture for personal use only, but (at least from what I understand), Bobbie's texture in question was intended for sale. That is a completely different issue, and it's time for the copyright agents to get off their butts and look into it. Let's try to look at some more detailed comparisons before you all attack Stefy further. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

time out for a moment to correct some false information... Blooddoll the claim that 'If I change something 10%, 50%, 90% I now own it' is an urban myth. I refer you to the FAQ section (quoted below) of the website for the US Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/faq.html#q49) "49.How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?... Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent. See Circular 14." umblefugly... I have no idea why you posted the disclaimer from the 'Backup CD' section of the webpage but it has more holes in it than a chunk of Swiss cheese. The two laws referred to (PL 83-703 and 99-474) and the Internet Privacy Act do exist, however they are designed to protect PRIVATE servers from unwarranted intrusion. Since this is (or was) a publicly accessable website it is specifically exempted. Bobbie25... Under US copyright law anyone who provides 'a means for digital transmission of infringing material' can be held liable for damages. The fact that you knew or didn't know the material was there does not exempt you from possible legal action. In this case it seems that access to the material has been removed in a timely manner & under the terms of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) you are safe from prosecution. okay everyone... back to the witch hunt, which is already in progress :-)

Attached Link: http://getafreaknlife.com

ok firstly id like to tell all of the store merchants here who are still nieve and think there products can be protected to wake up !! .. its the fucking wild west out there .. ..if good old bill gates cant stop his products from being pirated .. what makes yu think yu can protect a danm skin texture or 3d model lol .... i mean come on !! jesus, wake ! already. And as for the giving someone credit once yuve purchased the product ..i wonder if i should credit the cococola company for there oh so refreshing drink . or hugo boss .. for allowing me to smell so good LOL ..shall i go on !!LOL

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

Ahhh, I'd like to thank Nike co for these comfortable shoes.

If you want to up your content game, get schooled to be a pro with Sixus1 Mentoring today!

stefy, you STILL havent learned, have you? still up to your bullying, strong-arm tactics, huh? im not going to dredge up all the bullshit youve put people through here in the past, nor am i going to get into this argument because i just dont give a shit. i really dont Bravo Blackhearted ... the right words to a person who really needs to visit a psychologist. I do not understand that she can put her harrasm into this without getting banned or removed because she always is going a step to far. Well well this only can be happen here on Ro'Sity and the past is showing that the admin/mods just staying up for the merchants and not for the members too. But who keeps this side alive??? I found a new home by 3DCommune and this would never happen over there.

lol@greybro

You know.. it can happen anywhere. Clint made a mistake and apologized for it. He admitted he was wrong. But it can happen here, or anywhere, the paranoia about warez is that high anymore. Give Clint a break. He's only human, he makes mistakes.

Clint, you GO man! Power to you, your respect level just grew tenfold in my books ;-) I know better than to get myself all heavy duty into this scenario, but I will say there are very many "incredible" points made here by many that should be taken heed to...STRONGLY!! Seriously recommended reading material....yup... Beautiful days to ya's all, Pete

"For controversial reasons, if you are affiliated with any government, ANTI-Piracy group or any other related group, or were formerly a worker of one you CANNOT enter and view this web site, cannot acess any of its files and you cannot view any of the HTML files." lol! what's this? to the textures: (and not only because i'd like to see the outcome of this thread;)) there are similarities. it's fairly easy to alter original texture in photoshop in couple of minutes so that the other one looks "different". i don't say it's been done like this (or even done) but... btw, it would helped a lot if those textures for comparison would have been put on the same model, with same lighting, no? - the lines on her forehead - some dark sploches around the lips - part of bump map on lips - lines on the neck (very blurred, yet still there...) take it easy folks, don't jump the gun so quick! there are people here that can draw faster then stefyzz :) anyway it's a real SHAME that admins have nothing to say about this!! YA HERE ME?

aleks, the admins already said something about it. And really it's out of their hands at the moment. This is really between Steffy and Bobbie. The textures really don't look that much alike. the attached image is the side by side comparison that Blooddoll posted that I composited with one of my own textures, complete with free lip bump map that was posted a while ago and a skin bump i got free here about the same time. The shadowing you are pointing out is poser shadows. The lines can be achieved with morphs on victoria 2. the neck lines.. same thing except I have a specialized morph for them. When composited because of the default poser camera angle ALL THREE images look about the same. now. Is this proof one way or another? No. Just an example. to prove anything we'd have to see the texture maps themselves to compare. Storm

Lucky for me, I just bought a new Zippo. Didn't know I was going to need it so soon. Ok. Sounds to me like a few things are going on here, and we need to take them step by step and figure out the reasonable explanations. I've dealt with this very issue once before involving StefyZZ, have read her harassing e-mails and IMs, and seen the "proof" she presents to back up her claims. I'm not going to pretend any personal bias on either side, which is what I see happening here. It seems to me we have about 5 different issues: 1. Did Bobbie steal StefyZZ's texture? Personally I don't think so, but I'm not the expert. The MP testers are, and should, at the least, put this issue through the process and let us know their findings, WITHOUT CONCLUSIONS, since this is not a Rosity MP issue. 2. Is StefyZZ handling this matter responsibly? Absolutely not. The proper manner is to approach legal representation, and negotiate, not to lambaste people with harrassing messages and try to tear down their sites. 3. Is Renderosity providing any sort of involvement in this matter? I don't know. I wouldn't think so, just because every time I've dealt with them ( all of them. Every one. More personally than most people will ever know. ) the key idea is to be detached and professional. If an administrator or moderator violates that directive in the name of personal bias, they don't last long, because tammy and tim and audre are 100% about supporting artists and community as their #1 priority. 4. Is Bobbie hosting warez? I don't know. I can't check the site. If he/she is that does not necessarily mean that they should be banned from Renderosity. After all, Bebop hosted warez, and he's allowed back. If it happens on another site, it's not Rosity's problem. Cold, but true. If it spills over here, or if they post links to a site like that, it's a different matter. 5. We seem to be having a silly little clique war. Fuck cliques. I'm friends with Gabriel and Kiera, but if they have a problem, I'll still think about it objectively before getting involved. Same with my feelings toward Blooddoll. I'm also not gonna bash Stefania just because she's caused issues in the past. Let's all take the time to sit back, breathe deep, smoke a bowl, get laid, whatever it takes, to relax, and work our way from point a to b to c before making wild statements and accusations, shall we? This community's had enough problems lately without us creating more out of some infantile need to protect our pals. I'm not trying to directly insult or "school" anyone here. I'm just trying to keep this thread from going nuts with pitchforks and flamethrowers before I get off of vacation. I left my pitchfork at home. :( Paul P.S.: If this thing gets real freaked out, just remember, the power switch is on the front of the case.

hmmmm.. 1. Did Bobbie steal StefyZZ's texture? Personally I don't think so, but I'm not the expert. The MP testers are, and should, at the least, put this issue through the process and let us know their findings, WITHOUT CONCLUSIONS, since this is not a Rosity MP issue. i don't think bobbie has submitted this to the marketplace so the testers wouldn't really be involved in it until she does

this is getting out of hand lol

Sure is. Whenever I post something is bound to get out of hand. :P Seriously, though, we all just need to chill out and stop taking swings. I'd rather see this turn into a discussion with a resolution than a bar fight. Paul

As a paying customer my main concern here is not whether or not Bobbie has used parts of Asia for her texture or not. To me this is just another example of very poorly done business. If anyone treats her customers that way, she's not worth my money.

What's next? Michael's and Stephanie's mappings are very similar. If I use my Greta texture on Michael, am I going to get harrassing IM's from Stefy claiming that I don't have a license for the Michael texture?

Give me a break...

I agree that Stefania's methods aer less than professional. I've seen it before from more than her, too. I think it stands to reason that she'll lose business over this issue. However, is it acceptable that Bobbie also lose out? Her site is apparently gone, but can she recover it? If so, should she be allowed to post links to it here? That's the question in my mind.

Entropic Who owned her site? (IE - what ISP was she using)? Also if they are willing to close down her site without first contacting Bobby, they are not a very good site now or ever - and looking on the better side of life, at least she now knows that. No company should remove someone's site just because someone says they should - this is stupid, because it could mean that we as people could close down places all over the place just by saying, "Hey they support warez!" :) With that in mind - personally I would suggest Bobby get another place to keep her webpage/site. Now as for Bobby loosing money - is there any evidence to state that she has? I'm sorry but until all this - I didn't even hear about Bobby. Also - she started with poser according to her gallery in March of this year, and is already selling textures? Look I have been working on textures for a very bloody long time - and I have YET to create something I feel is sellable - and a lot of the work I publish is my own stuff. So I don't think Bobby will lose out - in fact if she is selling her textures then this could be great advirtising for her :) Is bobby is starting to make money already she has done so very fast (look at the Gallery - I only take my assumeptions from evidence I have seen) so honestly - every artist has a set back - one could say that this is bobby's. Not stating Stefyzz is right to do as she has - but I'm sorry - welcome to life, and welcome to the electronic life.

SnowS: "If WiNC could see and point out such similarities between Jillian and Asia from those pictures alone, then I believe there is a fairly good chance of an infringement being present." Well no - just because I could see such similarities means that I could see why someone could suspect. Does not however mean that there is infringement (or even a good chance of it) My comments were that Stefyzz had the right to question - but again - she had the right to question in a professional manner, which she has proved over time she certainly doesn't have.

hmmm my question is where in any of this has it been said that Bobbie was selling textures? She doesn't even have a store at Rosity

Stormrage - you can have a store elsewhere :) I presume from information I have been told is that she was selling them on her own site... but then again I don't know that nor can confirm that - nor am I really that interest. Again most of this stuff we can not comment really about without Bobby's confirmation about what she has gained or lost due to Stefyzz's actions - which personally if I was here I would keep them to myself and whomever has the power to do something about the situation. Again stefyzz nor Bobby have been on this forum to state their point of the story - so in all honestly most of us are all guessing and just assuming the worst of everyone. But from the fact provided, the assumption I have is that professionalism was ignored and actions were taken which could hurt a member of our community. And no matter what people say, "Politness and professionalism should be in foremost with any deals with people".

Stormrage Bobbie stated on her gallery images that she intended to sell the Jillian textures. At her website, she has some clothing textures already up for sale. Sasha

Again most of this stuff we can not comment really about without Bobby's confirmation about what she has gained or lost due to Stefyzz's actions - which personally if I was here I would keep them to myself and whomever has the power to do something about the situation.<<< WiNC, Bobbie invited public speculation of herself and her website herself.

XSashaX.. ahh thank you :) WiNC yep I know.. considering I have 3 and will be opening one on my site soon. "Politness and professionalism should be in foremost with any deals with people". very very very true!

When I first started this post it was about the overall harassment not just the asia/jillian texture debate, at the time i was under the impression that issue had been solved and it was just a small piece of the whole picture. But now it seems to have become the main event because it never was resolved due to an accidental deleteing of emails (which happens to everyone). No matter what is decided about the texture, I hope everyone remembers the lagit textures that where purchased that there is proof of purchase of. The way stefyz removed Bobbies login/pass to her site so she could not have access to her more detailed proof of purchase. The posts on Bobbies gallery accusing her of being a theif, SPAMing the same email over and over to Bobbie, IM'ing people who have nothing to do with this at the time, the fact that Bobbies entire web site was removed based on stefyz word alone. Keep this in mind before purchasing anything from stefyzz. As far as my feelings on the texture, I see good points on both sides. And not having been able to examin the textures themselves in photoshop myself I will leave that up to rosity to descide. But then there is another issue that apparently I was delusional about. I had assumed that Bobbie was trying to sell Jillian here not just on her own website. which is why I can understand why rosity would say that it is not their issue. However, Personaly I feel that any community should step in and stop harassment between its own members, expecialy when one of them seems to be a repeat offender, and not just turn their nose away and say sorry it didnt all happen here so its not our problem. Thats one of the biggest issues with People today they dont want to get involved when they should, and want to jump on in when they shouldent. They dont want to get involved when the situation can actually effect their own lives or cause any inconvience. So anyways, Now im just rambling. So I think Ill stop because ive stoped making sence to even myself. Now I will sit and wait for the outcome of this all. And as long as every thing is done fairly and justly (by that I dont mean it has to totaly come in bobbies favor) and explinations are given for what ever dicision is made I will be happy. However if some half assed excuse is given and someone gets away with murder, Ill be pretty pissed. With that, the sun is out and its time to start a new project. Have a good day. Windy

XSashaX - then we can comment as much as we want :) lol As long as Bobby herself requested comment on the situation - and not others requested it for her. But again - I personally think I have said all I can say on the matter. In regards to stefyzz - well honestly I believe that the moderators should look at her track record and I personally believe if there is enough evidence they should suspend her from selling stuff on this site. They have a massive community - they also have a responablity to protect those people in thie community. However - at the same time - there is little that they can do if she hasn't done something on Renderosity - which again means Bobby has to deal with this herself. Though I have taken all stefyzz's stuff off my wish list - especially since I can't get others to buy it for me, which is probably the only way a poor person like me can ever afford to get her textures. It is a pitty that stefyzz has acted like this - because over all - she is probably one of the most talented texture creators in the community. But jsut because she is - and is a top seller - doesn't mean that she should be above the "law". And Harrassment - anywhere - for any reason - should be discourged. Now I'm off to university to continue my programming degree since if I don't - I won't be able to afford Poser 5 :P

sigh This sort of thing is what gives the R'osity marketplace a bad name... unfortunately for the rest of us. Heck, as a new merchant, I'd almost be flattered to be copied. ^_^

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

Ok as for me learning texmaps see http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=200764&Start=1&Artist=Bobbie25&ByArtist=Yes this is one i am working on and off as for my website if any one would look at it it is being redone and as been for some time now as i said in the post i did Above this is way out of hand now i have sent the texmaps to the right ppl 2 times now and i do ty all for your Support but this has to stop now it is being looked in to by me stefzz and the rosity ppl as for MY site Id also like to say that now that I know what warez is I dont support it and I wish I knew what that was before.But as I said before,a deal was made with the renter that once my poser stuff went up on the site,the other portion would be closed.This is not a warez issue.some ppl who have posted in here have read bits and Pieces this all started coz i bought things from her site "Lago,Gaia Lingerie Package1" as for Leo he was a gift to me but as for "Lago,Gaia Lingerie Package1"I bought all pics i did that had the Gaia Lingerie Package1 got took off of rosity after i showed proof that i bought them But i was given a very Nice and sweet Im sorry for that as for my texmaps that is not an Issue any more this is all over now and my site is being worked on and i am slowly putting it all back up Steffzz has stop e-mailing me and I ty all but this is done now and is over ty xoxoxoxo to all of you wish you all well Bobbie25

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Good to hear Bobby - and wish the best for you and all your endevours in the future. Regards and best wishes WiNC

Bobbie...i still know that you have a legal cause of action. it may be hard to nail steffyzzz, overseas, but, r'osity....and, more likely than not, your web host service...are here in the states. just a thought....a bit of the greenstuff can help soothe aggrevation to no end.

Tiny bubbles, in my wine. Makes me h appy, makes me feel fine.

If you want to up your content game, get schooled to be a pro with Sixus1 Mentoring today!

Poppi - before anyone starts looking at legal aspects of everything - one has to ask "is it worth it". There isn't just the risk of loosing and loosing money... there is also the time, effort and pain legal issues take. Especially if no evidence of true money lose can be proven. Example - if you are selling everyday and then this happens - it could be possible to argue that one had lost "this much" because that is how much history shows you would have made. However if you are like most people on the internet, and only selling one every ... month or week - proving any lose is almost impossible. Secondly proving hardship also is one of the hardest things to get a judge to back. Unless there is medical payments required for counciling etc - proving hardship is like trying to prove there is a god. Most judges however do not go on faith :) So honestly - yes there might look like some legal avenues that Bobby could take against her ISP, and even maybe Renderosity - however winning, and the hassle of those procedings would be very hard to justify against possible earnings. Personally - as Bobby has stated - she and everyone else is working out the misunderstanding... That is a good step. I do however believe that issues regarding stefyzz shouldn't be dropped. I don't personally want to see in a months time the same shit happening from her - she needs to learn that this type of behaviour (even if she says sorry) is not acceptable. The only people who can do that is Renderosity putting the squeeze on her.

Legal action really doesn't make sense in this situation. Personally, I hate seeing someone attempt to collect money when no real monetary loss has occured.

If the texture is unique, then Stefyzz owes Bobbie25 a public appology for the whole mess, the deletions, the questioning of reputation and the loss of her website for a time. And I feel that Renderosity should enforce this. A popular merchant needs Renderosity as much as Renderosity needs the popular merchant. No one should be able to hold any strings or demand any special treatment here. AND if this is happening from one person on a regular basis, Renderosity should put a stop to it.

Stefyzz has lost out on this already. I won't buy from her after learning of her restrictions w/regard to gifts and actions based on this. I wasn't aware of these things till now. I think many others have come to the same conculsions.
And, if the texture is unique, Bobbie25 will have had quite a bit of publicity when she finally releases the texture to the Marketplace. :)

...... Kendra

I'd be interested to in finding out whether a clause in the ReadMe like, You can't buy this as a gift, can be enforced in court. Why is buying texture different from buying a set of dishes as a gift, or a book... This is plain silly. I can understand trying to control warez by having a buyers list. On the other hand, more sales would be lost with a clause like that, too. Not all of us have credit cards and actually have to rely on sons and brothers to order, LOL! No gift, no sale. Thank you, Stef, but I will stick to vendors who are reasonable adults and don't throw temper tantrums all the time!

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

See there? That was pretty easy to work out. Conclusions? 1. Stefy threw a tantrum, which she's apt to do. It sucks. If she threw the tantrum here, she should be suspended for a week to help her chill out and get her head together. If the entire tantrum was taken out elsewhere, Rosity's not obligated to do anything. 2. Rosity's not going to look at this in any way that reflects favoritism. I know a lot of folks out there like to think that there's a bias here, but, there's really not. Doesn't matter if you're a top selling merchant or if you just come by to dl free stuff, you break the rules and stuff happens. But if the rules of this site were violated elsewhere, it's not rosity's problem, and it shouldn't be. If that were the case, I'd have been toast months ago. =) 3. As for the warez issue, who knows? I think Bobbi should definitely reconsider her entire site, and be very careful about who and what gets to "rent space". Her TOS clauses also hint that certain things might not be on the up and up, but I won't condemn her unless I find some real evidence, and I'm not looking for any. Nonetheless, if there's a warez item posted at any site, there should be a zero tolerance for linking to rosity. I don't care if you're just hosting someone's item that you don't know and haven't seen. No links allowed. In the absence of an opinion from the admin, I'm willing to assume this is the case. 4. We're all one big happy family again, right? How about a hug? =) Paul

btsculpyot I have personally done a blur test - which shows very clearly where simularities are. The thing is there are also things that are not the same - personally I know how that could be fixed and one could use Asia to make Bobby's texture - however again it would take a number of hours to make it as good quality and as seemless as Bobby's texture is. And I would question - is it worth it? I'm sorry - but there are far better textures out there to steal - especially if one is going to alter it. I mean Asia has a lot of imperfections in the texture, and in the skin - might look realistic, but on Poser it still looks "bad" because of the way Poser uses the textures. So - presonally I can not say if Bobby did use Asia or not - but I can say that if she did - she could have picked better :)

This thread should be locked. Sorry. After a lot of consideration, this is not going anywhere, and none of us have the ability to demonstrate anything beyond what the administration is probably figuring out for themselves. In fact, I'm not even sure this is a Renderosity matter any more. We can all get together and crucify either Stefy or Bobby, but really what's the point? I think this issue is being resolved in other places, and we can't do anything but make it worse for all involved. Dissenting opinions? Paul

Hello everybody, I've knew about this thread only now, I'm sorry for the delay. -Point 1: About the Blooddoll words: "NOW Steffyzz has accused Bobbie25 of stealing B-Gen Leo and the Gaia Lingerie Package1 Gaia Lingerie Package1. Yet here they are on her credit card statement that I have seen with my own eyes. 6/25/2002 2CHECKOUT.COM , 877-294-0273 , OH $35.00 6/27/2002 2CHECKOUT.COM , 877-294-0273 , OH $25.00 " They are not order numbers of 2checkout and less oders of my 2checkout account. When someone purchases at our store with 2checkourt system he/she receive both the 2checkout order number that it looks like: 15523 (id seller number) and the order number of the purchase 1546574 plus the order number for my store. The customer receive the number in this way: The following order was placed for .......: 2CheckOut.com Order Number: 15523 - 1546574 ZetaStudios3D Order Number: 404 Total - $35.00 The order was billed to: ...... Then we send another mail that is the mail with the Purchase data that includes our ZS3D order number (included in the 2checkou mail as well), the username and the full real name of the buyer, which is the owner of the license. Blooddoll you should look into some 2checkout order before to post false statements. And when we've asked for 2 times to Bobbie 25 to send us the purchase data, we've received only the response she received the textures as a gift and it was not her fault his friend didn't know it was not allowed from the license. We've seen also from her gallery that she own also Iago. -Point2: "Kendra- then Stefyzz owes Bobbie25 a public appology for the whole mess, the deletions, the questioning of reputation and the loss of her website for a time" The site was distributing also for sale illegal "backup" copies of Courious Labs, Adobe, Metacreations, and several other sofwares, so the Copyright Enforcement Agents of these companies have tracked down the store owned by Bobbie25. I've received a copy of the ELECTRONIC NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT by the CL Copyright Enforcement Agent. Is Bobbie25 that owe to me and to CuriosLabs, Adobe, Metacreations etc... apologies. Also for sending us several offensive e-mails with words like bitch, fuck, ass, etc... -Point 3: The comparisons were made by Renderosity admins and also if we do not retain it necessary since everything is clear, we will post some Photoshop "difference" comparison. -Point 4: After all sayd we have no trust in this person for the extremely dishonest behaviour, and for damaging us, Curious Labs, Adobe, Metacreations, etc... Point 5: About the ZS3D product license: "3.PURCHASE DATA The Buyer have to store in a safe place all the datas and details of the purchase. This constituite the proof of the purchase and the ownership of the license to use the product. ZETASTUDIOS3D can request the purchase data under special circumstances if necessary." Obiouvsly the special circumstances only are warez cases like this, when dishonest persons want only to damage us. Point 6: use of the Jillian texture on Bobbie25 image gallery coomparison http://www.zetastudios3d.com/copyrightinfringment/comparison2.jpg I would like to quote another time the words of Dann Farr president of Daz, since we feel closer more now then ever: "We put considerable resources into creating our products. The value of these products lies in the fact that they are time consuming, expensive and difficult to create. Our goal is to sell this work to others, allowing them to start their projects from where we left off, and allowing us to earn money to live on and to invest in future projects. The problem arises when someone starts from our work, bypassing the investment necessary to get to that point, and then distributes their work in ways that may compete with our own product. And thats as complicated as our motivation gets. We simply need to ensure that no one can use our work as an unfair advantage to compete with us. And without having to go into the infinite number ways someone can create and distribute derivative work, this explanation should also help to clarify which specific methods of producing and/or distributing your work are permitted. Some of these infringements are obvious, others are often undiscernable to people unfamiliar with the many professional tools and techniques available. Also, we are only interested in protecting our business, not pursuing vendettas. With almost all first time offenses, we are satisfied when the creator of the derivative work simply acknowledges the infringement, is willing to work with us, and removes the files in question from distribution. Furthermore, for such matters we try to conduct our business with offenders on an individual and private level. That being said, we do have copyright and the End User License Agreement backing us up on this, and when its not an option to protect our business in a friendly manner we will go to all lengths necessary to protect our copyright. Ultimately, however, the success or failure of this market revolves around community support. If any entity has to spend a large percentage of its resources protecting its products rather than developing products, that business will not survive in such a market. The fact that this community is made up mostly of people who look for ways to support each other and our market, rather than parasites who continuously look for loopholes that damage others, is what makes this such a strong and growing community. (Speaking generally and not reffering to anyone specifically.) We all benefit from such a community." Thank you for your kind attention, Sincerely, Stefania.

Purchase Number: 373 Placed: 6/24/2002 Products Purchased: Product: Type: Price: ------------------------------------------------------------------ BREATH GENERATION IAGO type: PC / MAC* $ 35,00 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Total Order: $ 35,00 Please save the purchase data above in a safe place, since they constituite the proof of your purchase.Thank you! Below you will find the download information for your purchase. These Link/URLs will be valid for only 24 hours from the time of this email. If for any reason one (1) of the two (2) max downloads allowed will stop during the download process, it will be considered expired. If the link is splitted in two (2) lines please select the entire url , copy and paste it in your web browser and press enter to start the download. Purchase Number: 458 Placed: 6/27/2002 Products Purchased: Product: Type: Price: ------------------------------------------------------------------ GAIA LINGERIE PACK 1 type: PC / MAC* $ 25,00 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Total Order: $ 25,00 Please save the purchase data above in a safe place, since they constituite the proof of your purchase.Thank you! Below you will find the download information for your purchase. These Link/URLs will be valid for 24 hours, 4 maximum started downloads from the time of this email. If for any reason one (1) of the four (4) max downloads allowed will stop during the download process, it will be considered expired. If the link is splitted in two (2) lines (one active and one not) please select the first active line and copy and paste it in your web broser window, then select the second line (not active) and copy and paste it in your browser window near to one already pasted. Please verify the link/url pasted in your browser window is identical to the one below. Press enter to start the download. as i have mailed this to you one time befor but you still say that i did not Bought them

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Bobbie25 About your purchases I'm sorry but we've asked you 2 times via e-mail to send us these informations and you've never sent them to us. We have NEVER received them! You've only answered with a rude e-mail containing the word bitch referred to me that you have received Leo as a gift. No information about your purchases data you have now posted above. If you should have promptly sent them to us we should NEVER and NEVER ask you to delete your images. We are sorry for this inconvenience but, I repeat if you should promptly have sent us your purchase data you've posted above we should NEVER and NEVER ask you to delete them, and sent you our apologies about it. Sincerely, Stefania.

i did send them to you with the same e-mail calling you a bitch

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Now i think it is time for us to talk like adults and I am sorry for calling you a bitch it was not right of me to do so BUT i think we both should take this to ims or e-mails coz this is now between you and i

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We are sorry but these are the e-mails you have sent me and there is no purchase data on them, no username and realname used to purchase and number of purchase: ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobbie Sweet To: ZetaStudios3D Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Illegal distribution and copyright infringment i bought your Gaia Lingerie Package1 go look you dum ass bitch ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobbie Sweet To: ZetaStudios3D Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:09 PM Subject: Re: Illegal distribution and copyright infringment ....As for Leo he was given to me as a gift after I bought some of your other things and it is not my fault that my friend did not read your license agreement and I will not ask him for proof of sale for Leo because that is rude .... ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobbie Sweet To: ZetaStudios3D Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Illegal distribution and copyright infringment ok bitch look in your dam records i bought lago and Gaia Lingerie Package1 on 6/25 or 26 or 27 and i have e-mailed www.renderosity.com/ about all of this and i have called my credit card and you are not a smart girl i would have to say and i will see your ass in court for sure now so bring it on I repeat , we are sorry for this but we've never received your purchase data. If you should have sent them to us we should NEVER and NEVER ask you to delete the images and sent you our apologies. Sincerely, Stefania.

lol were is the rest of that e-mail hun it had a lot more to it then that

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In the rest of the first e-mail regarding Leo there was nothing regarding to the purchase data, it was only referred to the Asia copyright infringment. Anyway this is the whole e-mail you've sent us: ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobbie Sweet To: ZetaStudios3D Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:09 PM Subject: Re: Illegal distribution and copyright infringment I want the number of youre attorney I have called mine and meet with him showing him youre Textures and mine and he said you dont have any clam and I have grounds to sue you for defamation and lose of sales. And he wants to call and talk to your Lawyer as soon as possible on this matter. As for the derogator comments they are to be taken off as soon as possible and replaced with a Written Apology. As for Leo he was given to me as a gift after I bought some of your other things and it is not my fault that my friend did not read your license agreement and I will not ask him for proof of sale for Leo because that is rude . As for you E-mailing me it is herasment if you e-mail me for any other risen then to give me the phone number of your lawyer. Barbara.

I'm sorry I didn't read you message above: "Now i think it is time for us to talk like adults and I am sorry for calling you a bitch it was not right of me to do so BUT i think we both should take this to ims or e-mails coz this is now between you and i" I agree with you and I accept your apologies. Thank you. Sincerely, Stefania.

yes lets play e-mail tag your it talk to you in a min

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Bobby did you sell CL, and other software on your site? If not - then why did Stefania manage to get your site closed down so easily?

Fascinating.

Huh...that was almost better than sex.

THIS IS NOW OVER HER AND I WILL talk about it in e-mail only like adults

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I, for one, am glad that this whole mess brings home one point... Buy from a merchant who will not force you to keep receipts for eternity, just in case she forgets you bought from her, or doesn't bother to read her email proper... or heaven forbid I might get a gift, however will I prove that? Can you all imagine having your gallery trolled because your username doesn't seem to match purchase records, and your name destroyed in the process? The warez that were maybe offered on Bobbie's site have nothing at all to do with the issue at hand, IMO, that's for the companies to figure out. Stick to vendors who treat you with respect.

L'ultima fòrza è nella morte.

WiNC: About the fact Bobbie25 was selling CL and other, we've already sent to the Admins the copy of the CL ELECTRONIC NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT, that was the reason why the store of the site was tracked down. We can't obiouvsly post it in public without their prior written permission. I can only post the Copyright Enforcement Agent comments under the DMCA about the Bobbie25 3D Underground site Disclaimer (Agent comments between the [ ]) : Disclaimer WARNING: The creators of this site take no responsibility or liability for anything that occusr as a result of reading or downloading information within this website.This website does not host any software!It merely indexes the content of other websites.Also note that 3D Under Ground's views and content in no way reflect the views or belies of the service provider,and the service provider is not responsible for any content on these pages. [I didn't realize that selling pirated software now constitutes "indexing" the content of other websites.] Copyright Status: 3D Under Ground retains a nonexclusive, royalty-free licence to publish and reproduce it's contents, and allows others to do so, for reference purposes only. These documents may be freely distributed and must only be used for non-commercial, scientific and educational purposes. Commercial use of the documents available on this server are protected under the U.S. and Foreign Copyright Laws.Individual documents on this server may have different copyright conditions,and may be noted as such. [The "3D Under Ground" does NOT hold copyrights to Poser 4 (or any other software listed for sale on the site), much less do they have any right to publish or reproduce the software, for "reference purposes" or otherwise.] Disclaimer of Endorsement: Reference herin to any specific commercial produc, process, or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or othrwise, does not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation, or favouring by 3D Under Ground. The views and opinions of authors expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of 3D Under Ground, and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes. Disclaimer of Liability: With respect to documents available from this server, neither 3D Under Ground nor it's creators, make any warranty, express or implied, including the warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, or assume any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represent that it's use would not infringe privately owned rights. Notice: Information on this server resides on a computer system paid for by 3D Under Ground. The use of this system may be, and is, monitored for computer security purposes. Any unauthorized access to this system is prohibited and is subject to criminal and civil penalties under Federal Laws including but not limited to Public laws 83-703 and 99-474. [A publicly accessible web site is not considered to be a "private server" and PL 83-703 and 99-474 have no applicability to access - at least according to the United States Attorney and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.] Also Note: For controversial reasons, if you are affiliated with any government, ANTI-Piracy group or any other related group, or were formerly a worker of one you CANNOT enter and view this web site, cannot acess any of its files and you cannot view any of the HTML files. If you enter this site you are not agreeing to these terms and you are violating code 431.322.12 of the Internet Privacy Act signed by Bill Clinton in 1995 and that means that you CANNOT threaten our ISP(s) or any person(s) or company storing these files, and cannot prosecute any person(s) affiliated with this page which includes family, friends or individuals who run or enter this web site. [Again, the "Bill Clinton says you can't see me or sue me" disclaimer has no applicability to a PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE web site. The presence of this disclaimer is generally considered to be both a "red flag" and a "welcome mat" for agencies such as ours.] By continuing to view and read the documents within this site, you are expressly and impliedly agreeing to all terms stated above, and affirm that you are in compliance with all federal, state and local laws concerning the content of this site. Unless otherwise indicated, the information in this transmittal is CONFIDENTIAL and intended only for the recipient listed above. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply mail.

yes my site but that is from RENTED SPACE on my site and i did not wright that but MY SITE IS NOT WHAT THIS WAS ALL ABOUT IT WAS ABOUT STUFF I BOUGHT FROM HER SHE SAID SHE DID NOT GET THE E_MAILS NOW SHE KNOWS I BOUGHT IT AND THE REST IS FOR HER AND I TO TALK ABOUT AND SO AS FOR MY SITE IT DOS NOT HAVE ANY RENTED SPACE ON IT ANY MORE SO NO ONE HAS TO BITCH ABOUT WHAT IS NOT THERE AND IM GETTING REALLY SICK OF ALL THIS HER SITE BS HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT IT WAS NOT ABOUT MY SITE!!!!!!!!!!!I RENTED OUT SPACE ON MY SITE I DID NOT KNOW WTF A BACK UP CD WAS TILL JUST ABOUT A DAY AGO YES I SHOULD HAVE ASK THE RENTER MORE ABOUT IT BUT I DID NOT SO STOP TALKING ABOUT MY SITE AND WHAT WAS THERE AND IS NOT THERE NOW My god

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Bobbie25 may or may not be trading in warez, and may or may not have used the Asia texture as a base for her own. I've seen no real evidence, either way, on any of those charges. What is not in question, or so it appears, is that SteffyZZ chose to troll Bobbie25's gallery as a method of confronting her (him?) about the allegedly stolen texture. For Heaven's sake, that's simply NOT acceptable behaviour from a merchant. It's not acceptable from anyone, and in most cases would be considered a banning offence by the admins. This was, and is, a private matter, and the Renderosity community should not have been involved at all.

Bobbie, I'm sorry but I was only replying to WiTC, I didn't wanted to upset you. Beeing you the owner of the site and beeing showed your picture and of ublefugly and your Stuff (textures, gallery etc..and the "Backup" CDs) and beeing your first and last name clearly written as the owner of the Paycom.net account (have you rented also your paycom account?) when someone was trying to purchase some Poser and Photoshop CD, and sent to the paycom purchasing page, we all have tought that it was you that was selling the illegal software CDs. I'm sorry if it was not so obiouvs that was not you. Sincerely, Stefania.

Attached Link: http://www.zetastudios3d.com/copyrightinfringment/comparison2.jpg

Well then, what about this? (referring to point 6 of steffys complaint)

You almost had me convinced of a wonderful new texture! Pretty disapointing, to say the least.

eirian: I didn't mean to offend anyone, and less Bobbie25. I was only trying to protect my work. I apologize with all should have feel offended by this, it was not our intention. Yes you are right this should have solved in a private form, and it was not me that started the forum thread. We've sent our apologies to Bobbie25 about the mistake we made since we didn't receive her purchase data. About the last message I was only repliyng to WiNC about his question. Didn't wanted to offend anyone. Evrything will be solved in private. I'm sorry again if someone should have feel offended. It was not my intention. Sincerely, Stefania.

Thank you for the link Sasha (and Stefy too), that comparison proves quite a bit in my opinion. The top of the lips and that one wild part of the eyebrow match up pretty darn well. Heh, you call a vendor a "dum ass bitch" and appear to try and sell an infringing texture and then you're surprised when the vendor fights back?! If Bobbie is proficient enough in English to use profanity and threaten to bring on the lawyers, she ought to have had suspicions when a site called "3D Underground" who's selling 'backup' CDs of Photoshop and Poser wanted to rent space from her (and no, I'm not accusing her of being a warez dealer too, but it just adds to the suspicions anyway). It would be nice if everyone who attacked Stefy here would apologize to her for all the slanderous comments, but I won't hold my breath. SnowS

my DeviantArt page: http://snowsultan.deviantart.com/

 

I do not speak as a representative of DAZ, I speak only as a long-time member here. Be nice (and quit lying about DAZ) and I'll be nice too.

The picture in the link to SteffyZZs "comparison" is not Jillian that is Holly Wood and what the heck is she doing stealing pictures out of the Renderosity Gallery when those pictures are supposed to be protected by Renderosity and posting them without written consent from Bobbie? I would not in any way shape or for call that a comparison,that is outright BS.Holly Wood was only a post of a render and was NEVER offered up as a sale item. Please people,pay attention to what you read.

I've thought Bobbie would like to solve this in private. Anyway under that image she've written she've created that texture and was the same used in the Jillian images now deleted from her gallery. Anyway I don't wanted to "steal" the Bobbie25 image gallery posting the comparison, in the meantime the admins will post the actual comparisons.

Then why havent you e-mailed her? If you want to talk to her then e-mail her shes been e-mailing you and you refuse to answer.I know coz im talking to her right now thru the yahoo voice chat.

I didn't refuse to answer. I've sent her our apologies for haven't receive her purchase data and our misunderstanding at that was all. I hope she have received them. Never received any reply.

*"Kendra-
then Stefyzz owes Bobbie25 a public appology for the whole mess, the deletions, the questioning of reputation and the loss of her website for a time"

The site was distributing also for sale illegal "backup" copies of Courious Labs, Adobe, Metacreations, and several other sofwares, so the Copyright Enforcement Agents of these companies have tracked down the store owned by Bobbie25.
I've received a copy of the ELECTRONIC NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT by the CL Copyright Enforcement Agent.

Is Bobbie25 that owe to me and to CuriosLabs, Adobe, Metacreations etc... apologies.
Also for sending us several offensive e-mails with words like bitch, fuck, ass, etc..."*

The backup cd's should be a separate issue.
No one has posted absolute proof, yet, of the textures. (the link above is not working)
There are lines of comunication that should be followed in a situation like this and trolling a persons gallery and posting public comments BEFORE such proof is posted, is not the way to go about it.

Looking at both textures, side by side, wasn't conclusive enough. A request should have been made to Renderosity (since that's where the texture was going to be sold) to compare both (OUTSIDE of Poser) BEFORE publicly condeming someone. (same reason I was non-committal in my own opinion)

If it can happen to one person it can happen to anyone on this site and that was my main point and reason for posting. If it's being handled properly now and everyone is behaving then good. But I do know that I wouldn't be very willing to be "nice" to someone who suddenly demanded I show proof of my purchase while trolling my gallery.
Something to think about.

...... Kendra

Just to let everyone know,because of a f**k up on the hosts part at our site,products were made available to anyone and everyone.If you see Lightning FX,Melissa,Jillian or anyother item out there,it is stolen from us.TY

Wow! I am sooooo outta here! If there are people like stefyzz stalking the galleries of renderosity then I'm posting (and purchasing) elsewhere. Renderosity admin. please take heed, you've lost me as a contributor and customer because of this issue. And Stef, you're the talk of all the poser groups I'm on--your name has become an anathema among many in the poser community. I'm off to 3DCommune. But thanks for the morning soap opera! LC Mankiller

Well hold on - firstly I was informed that Stefyzz was informed about Bobby's texture by a friend. Most people can see a simularity and anyone who has their eyes on Asia (and would so much like to have the texture) can see the simularities very clearly. So I'm not sure Stefyzz "trolls". And in a way she has the right to monitor the use of her work, doesn't Microsoft force you to give them a activation code - which monitors who is using their product. What about 3dMax, or many other programs out there that force you to contact them before you use their product. Then there are those who do so without even letting you know, CuteFTP, Dreamweaver MX, just to name a few. Now Stefyzz goes around and sees if she can see her texture being used, if she does and that person isn't on their list then she will quesiton. Now, I am starting to wonder from the information I have seen here just who was the first person to become "unprofessional". I do believe that we have all jumped on Bobby's side because StefyZZ is a big top selling merchant, and also because StefyZZ in the past has causes some issues. However, even a stopped clock can be right twice a day... Now again I'm not sure if Bobby's texture was original Asia and some other texutres - all I can say is that playing with the pictures that were supplied by BloodDoll - I can make a very damn close copy of Bobby's texture from Asia - and that isn't without changing the eyebrows and other stuff. So the problem is - I can't believe Bobby that she didn't copy the texture, because I know it can be done. Now something else that totally puts Bobby's side of the story into question is this fact that she was selling Warez (There is no such thing as selling, or supplying Backup CDs - it is Warez!). And I'm sorry - ANYONE who had that disclaimer on their site knew too damn well what warez means. Take it from me - I have been there, done that! (Though NEVER had the indesanty to sell another persons work, not software, art, nothing!) Anyone who sells software should not be trusted - mainly because they are making money off other people, they are willing to break the law in some of the highest regards and are also willing to hurt the community by doing so. It is that simple, and the way Bobby has "denied" invovlment in this simply doesn't sit well with me. I'm sorry but personally, this "Rented" out space on my site stuff just is too much bullshit for me. I have been on Internet since it was just a few BBS's connected to each other, I have heard all the excuses in the universe. For someone to rent out space and not check what is on that space is just not heard of (even big companies that rent out space, check those sites from time to time). To see sellable items for CL and Photoshop and not questions brings into question your own intelligence Bobby. And yeah I'm being blantly truthful here, but to me it is bullshit. You were caught out - and instead of saying "Shit, oh well my fault" you started this campaign of lies to protect yourself and your interest. Now because it wasn't on Renderosity it has nothing to do with Renderosity, but because you were (at least) an accumplus to the selling of illegal software (which was charged to your account) I believe it is YOU who owes the community an apology for your actions and for the way this whole thing has worked out! I personally owned StefyZZ an apology - Mainly because it appears that a lot of the information that was supplied to us made you out to be the agressure and the one causing the problems. My one conversation with you has been extremely professional, and your conduct on here has also been professionally handled. I do thank you also for bringing to the attention of the selling of more legal software on the internet, and that you took action to close that down. This will be the last thing I will be saying on this topic - mainly because all I can see now is a warez person who got herself caught, and in my eyes, that is perfect justice. WiNC

Can we all move on?

WiNC, first off the site has nothing to do with this issue. SO WHY DO YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP?! The only question here was if Bobbie copied the texture and called it as her own. That is something you only hit lightly on in your rant. Also, how can you even comment on a person you don't know or never talked to? I know bobbie, and she aint the type of person to do that. Not to cut her down or anything, I seriously doubt she knows how to do that (sorry bobbie). Plus as everyone else has been saying, this is a personal matter between Steffy and Bobbie, so drop it already.

Harrassment is Harrassment & anyone who thinks they can get away with it is deluding themselves. To do it in public is rank stupidity. I see great things in your future Stefy just not many sales, you've ruined Bobbies reputation & I was going to say yours too but you don't have a reputation to ruin unless it's the reputation of being a bully. Yes that's what you look like to everyone now is a big bully who needs to be brought down a peg or 2 & the best way is to boycott your site & store items. looking up a bit I see at least 3 people who said they'll never be customers of yours either now or in the future & I join their ranks. my advice to you is have a long chat with bushi about how he treats his customers, he is the sort of vendor I would consider buying from again, his after sales service & even his before sales service is the best I've ever had, try taking a leaf out of his book you might like it. Rob

Geez this was long to read! Sorry to see you trashed because you're trying to protect yor work Stefania. When after reading your post in the gallery I checked the link to Bobbie25 site and saw the textures sold there I was on the impression that it was another "mgarramone" case... The images were too short to sure, but after seeing bits of your new textures used in clones and the warez activities on that site my doubts were gone. All the persons that say that the warez activities on that site are unrelated to this subject should think that StefyZZ reaction was probably caused mainly by those illegal activities that reinforced her suspects. Maybe the reason that someone continues to bring up the issue of the warez is that they also feel insulted as I am by the lame explanations given for that. It took Snowsultan to post the screenshot, in which Bobbie was caught with the hands in the jar, to make her clean the site. I'm disconcerned to see how much people here think that pirating software is not a problem and are willing to protect a warez site and trashing an artist protecting her work instead. This kind of activities damages Stefy and all the artists/producers that create original content in the first place and then the honest costumers because those great product have to cost more to cover the investment of time and money. And to all that said that she had to handle the matter differently, well yes, but think about the money she had to invest to get the equipment to take those digital photographs she uses to create her textures, think about the money she spent to pay the models to take those photographs and think about the months she spent to painfully eliminate all the seams on the textures (I know, I saw the work in progress...)and you will understand why in these occasions (that involve warez activities) she rise some hell... Her products have been stolen and redistributed so much times in the past, even by big names in this community that have still a name only because she actually resolved those matters privately... I think I know were these persons that say that they are not going to purchase at your store are going to get your textures Stefy...

I think I know were these persons that say that they are not going to purchase at your store are going to get your textures Stefy... Just read back this thread and count how many people you are practically calling thieves with this comment. Sometimes I almost wish my parents hadn't brought me up to be a polite and civil person so I could tell people like you what I think about your comments. How dare you?

I think this thread should have been locked last night, for god's sake! Fine, you folks want to hang yourselves by raging about each other puffing your chests and bellowing like hormone charged orangutans? Do it somewhere else. I like this site, and this bullshit doesn't belong here. Let Stefania and Bobbie go beat each other with ball bats for all I care. Wtf does any of this have to do with our community? Stefy's not a part of it, and Bobby doesn't seem to care about it. Let em go fight on ESPN2 or the Playboy Channel or whatever.. The rest of you, stop being Lemmings. For god's sakes, maybe you do mean well, and I don't want to throw around insults, but do you really need to step in and defend someone based on some predisposition to ULTIMATE JUSTICE? Well, if so, get over it. Do you really think that those you soil yourselves in defending really appreciate it or even care? They don't. In fact, I'm betting they both want this whole thing to go away. Let it. Paul

Yes Caru you are right, I had to avoid that last comment, I admit I was rude. Sorry for that

OK ... as I don't know anymore what is white and what is black I'll delete my post in that threat ... I'll make my own thoughts about that whole situation and for myself that's it. Please - everybody here stop being rude at each other ... There are more important things in that world that need our attention ...

Thank you Schlabber. If only I had your ability to be both eloquent and brief. Well said. Paul

Agreed Schlabber - thanks (And yeah Paul - I'm not the more brief person in the world :P lol) bye - WiNC

Hey Paul... how goes it? Lovely weather we are having isn't it? And how about that baseball/racing/basketball/football/hockey game... wow wasn't that awesome!! Wha??? Huh?? Wrong thread and forum....??? Crap. Jack

Just my two cents: I have seen the comparison pictures, both normal and with difference filteer applied, and it appears to me that: 1. it is evident that the Asia texture has been used as an important base to build another commercial texture, with minor changes applied in order not to make a real variation (which would have been illegal anyway), but only in the hope to fool the casual viewer and trick him/her into believing that it was a different texture; 2. the web site the texture was distributed with, was with ALL EVIDENCE a warez web site, carrying ilegal copies of sotware such as Poser, Bryce, etc. Now it is possible that Stefy, in the effort of defending herself against this abuse (continuous abuse) she is the victim of, may have not done what was best to do in her situation; this because she is an artist and she is not used to (thanks God) deal with pirates and that sort of "nice" people. But I have a couiple of comments about this: 1. I find it disgusting that there seems to be quite a number of people ready to criminalize Stefy for her efforts to defend herself against piracy, while they don't show even a 10% of the same "sacred disdain" against the REAL criminals, i.e. the pirates who constantly steal her and other Poser artists of their hard work and professionality. In other words, many are ready and wanting to shoot on Stefy for the errors she might have done while defending herself, but at the same time are more than ready to close not one, but BOTH eyes on the thieves and pirates, passing their criminal actions under silence. They find plenty of words to condemn Stefy, but their vocabulary seems to get suddenly super-narrow when they have to find a single word to condemn the pirates. This is plainly grotesque. It sounds to me like those people who criticize the U.S.A. because they have attacked the Talebans, while forgiving the Talebans who protected and helped organize a terrorist attack that caused thousands of innocent victims. 2. I find it even more disgusting that some merchants jumped in on this thread to defame another fellow merchant. This is incredible. As it is incredible that they accuse Stefy of being unprofessional. Stefy might be unexperienced in the field, and she may not have done what more experienced merchant would have done, but her intent was perfecly legitimate: to protect herself from pirate frauds and attacks. Now, what about the professionality of those merchants who publicly attack her fellow merchant (and of course don't have a single word of reproaching against the pirates)? Have those merchants ever learned that NEVER should any professional publicly attack another professional of their own field? This is not only unprofessional, this is super-unprofessional, a total lack of style and fairness, and ultimately, also humanly miserable.

geeeeeeez ... not again ... I think all that must be said is allready said ... would someone CLOSE this post ... this leads only to more harassment etc ... Everybody here: Hey, let's do art and/or this and that stuff (for free or for sale or for whatever ...)

What's up, Jack? We could of course change this thread to the Jack and Paul hang out thread! Whadday say? Let's all sing along: "I love you, you love me..."

YAY!! Excellent Idea there Paul... that should confuse the lot of them!! But THIS TIME YOU WERE THE BARNEY OUTFIT... I don't want to get crap thrown at me again!! Jack

i love you all too...but, but, but...is professionality a word? also humanly miserable...lol...a phrase? i am an esl person....tough choices, these. now, how about a nice old time c&d type wind down to this thread? comeon guys...i know you can do it. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

I love you...you love me....we're all a happy family.... *wink*

Orio, have you actually compared the textures, or the few renders that were floating around (let me remind you that several of those didnt even use the texture in question). So untill you can actually compare the textures, themselves, alone you cannot come to a fair and just verdict. Also, the people that said Steffy acted unprofessionally believe that because she made accusations with out proof, plus threatened bobbie. I would call that unprofessional. Audie, someone, please close this thread.

Hey, Jack, Poppi, Dragon... errr... Radart! Good to see ya folks. :) So here's how my day went: When I last posted I was at a coffee shop, on the net terminal, and in the middle of my post this cute girl walks up and sits at my table, asking if I mind. Of course, I say no. So we end up talking for four hours, and then, outta the blue, she asks if I wanna go out with her. Pretty cool, eh? So dinner was good, then the bar afterward ( Killian's rocks! ) Turns out she and I share a lot of common interests, and are getting to be friends. Not too bad for a random evening spent, eh? Of course, this is to say that I'm not terribly interested in pursueing a relationship, but, you know, I can think of a lot worse ways for this day to have gone. How were your evenings? Paul P.S.: Audre don't lock this thread, just move it to the tavern so we can all drink. ;) ( And, Hellmark, asking to lock a thread is nonstandard after a parting shot. A request to lock would look better had you said nothing except the request to lock. Please review my post above for notes. *8^> Cheers! )

Odd I made a post in here yesterday regarding my final thoughts on the issue and it didnt show up. Im not going to type it all out again, but in that was a request to lock this, and I even IM'ed the admin who was on at the time, and I see that they got my IM yet it is still unlocked. Such is life. Now Ive got the vodka whos got the cranberry juice?!

Well, no need to lock it now, really... We're all just hanging out having fun. ;) Pass me a screwdriver, will you? OJ's in the fridge. Paul

Hey cool...a PARTY! Hey-a Paul...much luck with that ladyfriend, sounds like ya done swell... wink

Ent - Make it last, ya LAMB.

Damn Paul, Mine was no where near as enjoyable as yours!! I did some work, went to physical therapy (because of my neck surgery) then went for an eight mile walk to relax and came back home to work. And here you are, walking around with a young lady, talking and enjoying yourself... man, I am jealous!! How about you Rad and Poppi... how were your nights?? Jack

takes a moment to note that Rad and Poppi might make a damn cute couple... Never mind... just the liquor speaking. =) Paul

ARGH - DRINKING! And no one told me! :P Entropic - be careful of the cute ones - especially the ones who ask you out for a date :) Usually it means they are really aliens from outer space and are going to eat your ... brains ...

OOOOOoooo Brain eating is BBBBBBBbbaaaaddd!! No, no, stay away from Brain Eaters Paul... very very bad mojo... very bad!! :o) Jack

Especially since we know where most males keep their brains :P /me runs away and hides from all the males on Renderosity... WiNC

Well hey, sad to hear about your neck surgery Jack...hope your okay there....eight mile walk huh...damn, I love walking every day...nourishes everything all over, hehehe...um, as for me, watched a movie with a ladyfriend at her place, and PLEASE don't ask me what it was about, (evil grin)....also managed to get myself joyously inebriated one night while out with the gang, ended up making a typical RadArt outta myself here later that night, LOL...(teach me not to lay one on and leave my computer running too)... As for Poppi...well heck, from what I hear, she's quite a babe...I'm sure she's quite the busy gal...(grin) but hey...haven't the slightest clue... Hope you get all better soon with that neck Jack...;-) Stay cool, Pete PS....brain eaters huh....so that's what they do...doh...

Pete: Dude. You totally need to IM poppi and get something cooking. I'm sure she'll beat me for the suggestion, but I think you two would totally rock out together. Jack: It's all fun and games until someone wakes up in a bathtub full of ice with only thirty minutes to get to a hospital before the other kidney fails. WiNC: I'm so unlucky in love that having a female eat my brain would be a step to improving my relationships... most won't get that close to me. ;) Paul

Whos Brains can I be checkin out here? passes the screwdrivers around

LOL!!

Thanks for the well wishes Pete, glad to see things are working out for you!! nudge nudge wink wink :o) Paul... a bath tub filled with ice?? Dude, we are talking some serious and major shrinkage there!! WHEW... no way for me...!! Gives a whole new term to Blue Bcensoredlls!! Blooddoll, you could always check mine... but like the scarecrow, I have to visit the wizard first to get some :o) Jack

LOL...(again)...hahaha...

Paul : LOL!!!

Jack Ill grant you three wishes.... waves her magic wand better make it count!

Hey-ya's...now don't NOBODY start thinkin' about lockin' this thread...(please)...I just gotta see what happens next.... (evil grin)...;-)

I guess Jack didnt want his 3 wishes.... anyone else want em? hehe

um - can I??? I could do with some cool wishes - loose some weight - bigger breasts - sexier ass :P Oh I mean - oh yeah - world peace, no more hunger, and every saleable item from Renderosity marketplace in my stockings :) WiNC

Oh, I want my three wishes, I just wanted to think long and hard on what I wanted... This is what I would like... 1.)The utter and painful erradication of individuals who seek to promote or cause terrorist attacks against the US and our nation's allies. 2.)The feeling of FAMILY to once again be prevalent in all of the Poser Community forums and websites... and last... 3.) True Love... Those are my three wishes. I hope they are not to difficult to accomplish, because any one of those would be nice right about now. Jack

Hey...BRAVO Jack!....those are very "commendable" three wishes....impressed here ;-)

ah true love :) jack there must be someone out there for you, found mine 18yrs ago, been married to her for 14 of those, keep looking "he?/she" is out there waiting for you ;) WiNC I do keep my brains there ;) pass the vodka over here :) Rob

Oh, my Jack, your wishes brought me to tears.

Very nice wishes indeed jack, sadly my magic wand doesnt make such pure wishes come true. Its a dirty little wand, a dirty little wand indeed!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12418&Form.ShowMessage=793905&Reply=796224#74

Ron,

See that link up there? THAT is the thread you are fighting with Jack in. You dont need to start shit in this thread also.

Sasha

Sasha, why are you starting shit? I just made a very positive comment about Jack's wonderful wishes.

Well Doll... a dirty wand, eh? Hmm... well, I guess I could come up with three dirty wishes... but then again, if you're willing, I don't really think we need that dirty little wand of yours to make them happen or come true evil grin Jack

Hey then shouldn't it be able to cast my wishes for me then :P WiNC

Jack, of course we need the wand, its just not as fun with out it. WiNC, your wishes will be granted, but the wand requests you toss out that old tube of....

Doll, we could always use mine, that is unless you wish to have two wands, which could be fun too. :o)

LOL...you two are a riot....hahaha...

We could just use your wand Jack, but two wands are always better than one.

MmMmmmm... how about we use mine first and then add others as we move along to enhance the enjoyment for you? I don't wish to appear greedy... but I also don't wish you to get confused... that, and what if you don't think my wand is good enough to practice magic with? After all, it's been a while since I've had use for it. :o)

LOL!!!....um...oh...(I hope it's okay to laugh....) ...oh what the hell...hahahahaha...too funny you two!!;-)

LOL Do I need to get you a blow up doll to practice on Jack?

chuckles Naw, from what I hear it is like riding a bicycle, once you learn it all comes back pretty fast. But just to be on the safe side, I hope that you wouldn't mind if we did it a few times to make sure I can remember... and/or allow me to do a few "laps" first... =o)

Just a few?

How about a couple of hours worth of laps... just please, allow some time to rest between them...