In the last month, I have had the worst experiences in my life as a writer. In one month I have been invited into three groups, all of which are making rpg worlds and each of them thought highly of my writing abilities. In short, they wanted my critique on their work but after I sent one in for each of them, I am not only booted out but flogged and battered verbally on the way. I don't agree with candy coating my critiques or stroking one's ego saying things like, "That's nice dear." or "Oh yes dear, that's a wonderful story." I don't see anyone as a writer or any sort of artist ever able to grow in their field of study in this manner. And I firmly believe that by being a "Critic Badger" can equally stifle one's growth in any sort of art they are in. My problem is simply this, I can't find my mid-point. Are there classes for this or even an online document to coach critics so that they don't hurt peoples' feelings? I am tired of being verbally flogged by the "touchy" people. :)

I prefer brutal honesty myself. Can you give an example of how harsh you were?

Hi Hammer, As both an artist and a writer (working on my first novel), I can understand where you are coming from. There is such a fine line between stroking someone's ego and crushing it. The most important advice I can give you is to be tactful. Do not attack the article. Instead stress a good point and follow it by something you think they could change. Again, be tactful. Always remember that your opinion is just that Your Opinion. If you edit with an All Knowing Attitude you will find the author of the article you are critiquing with his defenses up. Try this; before you send off a critique read it out-loud to yourself. Read your critique as if someone had written it about your writing. How did it sound? Was it soft, harsh, helpful? Try to make positive suggestive statements. I liked {this part} of your story, however when I got to {this section} I became confused because suddenly one character disappeared and left me wondering what happened, if anything, to him. Do you think you could clear that section up? Compared to Your article needs a ton of work, I could not make any sense out of anything in chapter 8. You should try rewriting the whole story. I give you a ton of credit for asking for help. One last thought, remember when a person writes they are exposing their soul. Best to nurture, not crush! Artistic Souls are both rare and precious. Just some food for thought :) Dee-Marie (ladynimue)

Constructive Criticism is a key concept here. It's hard to tell if the Hammer believes in Constructive Criticism.

Why not read some of the critiques in this forum to get an idea of what is considered fair? So far, we haven't had any complaints about how unfair any of the critiques have been. (I think it really says something about the people participating here. There's been flame wars in the galleries when people have given ratings of "merely" 8 or 9 to certain people's work.) Why not post a critique and we can critique it? ladynimue gave some really good points on critiquing. She mentioned a lot of the rules that I use when I comment on other people's work. I'd also add: Try to be clear that you are commenting on the story, not the writer. If you found mostly negative points, try to give some reassurance to the writer as well. Reassurance is not sugar coating, it is saying that there is a nugget of gold in the story, but the writer needs to do more mining to get to it. Offer specific examples of problems and possible ways to improve it. I'll pick on RAMINUS. The Grave Digger's Lament was well received (because it was well written), but the timing was off. If I'd simply said, "you need to fix your timing" then I could have been perceived as an adversary simply trying to poke holes in his story. When I commented on the problem, I separated out the three events as I understood them and suggested using white space to make the events clearer. I don't know if the white space idea will be used in the revision, but by showing a specific example and offering a suggestion on how to fix the problem, I showed that I was "on his side." I hope this helps.

The ratings on Renderosity art pages aren't used for critique, they're used to say "Hi, how are you", if you get my drift. And I use them for that too, I admit it. But personally I don't like to comment on the writing here because I couldn't do the same for prose and I know from experience certain people take criticism hard. The reason I don't post any of my own stuff is the opposite. I would really like totally honest criticism but I know that most people here are too polite and unwilling to offend. I guess the first bit applies to your bunch, Hammer (that's assuming you really tried to be fair and didn't just poke fun). In which case, unless you tell these guys lies they're not going to be your buddies. That's not to say your techinque is perfect (of course it won't be unless you do this for a living) but I don't see any need to water down your opinions if you are honestly trying to help people out. If they don't want to hear the truth stuff 'em and help out someone who does. They're not artists, they're idiots. If a person REALLY wants to know how well they can write (rather than have their egos massaged) they can pay a nominal fee for a reading by a reputable agent. The agent will write a critique of the piece and then 99% likely say "write as a hobby, sure, but don't waste your time trying to be an author because it will not happen." The reason people don't want to do this is that they don't want to hear the truth. I guess if everyone was mature enough to take well-intentioned criticism then a lot of people would improve a lot faster at a lot of things. I worked 110 hours a week for nearly year on a 200,000+ word novel only to have it rejected 10X over at submission time (although with very encouraging comments). And did I moan or throw a tantrum? Did I hell! I was overjoyed more than I can tell you that the agents took time to comment on my work and I can't wait to get started on my next novel!

crisjon1950, I am asking for help and you are being smug to me? Heh, I guess some people are looking for the fight in one's words because that is all they know how to do. If you want to contribute and help, then help, if you want to make assumptions and be haughty to my query then don't reply. Ok now that is past us, my original query was this: Are there classes for this or even an online document to coach critics so that they don't hurt peoples' feelings? I am tired of being verbally flogged by the "touchy" people. :) While I do appreciate your help, the help in itself can be of no use as good as the intent maybe. Allow me to clarify. Let's say Mr. Bob has never heard of, smelled, tasted, or seen a steak in his life. In a conversation he then hears two people speak of one for the first time and asks them, "I don't mean to interupt, but what is a steak? Isn't that something you hammer into the ground?" The two people stop for a moment and look to Mr. Bob and both smirk at his innocent question. Person 1 then says, "Well its a slab of meat from a cow and its juicy." Mr Bob interjects, "So its juicy like an orange? Does it taste like an orange?" Person 2 then says, "No, no. It's a meat not a fruit. It's texture is soft and chewy and has a smokey taste and smell to it." Mr. Bob then surmises aloud to the two strangers, "Ohhh, so a steak tasts like a smoked cashew with juices inside?" Person 1, "No you are missing the point, it's a meat that juicy, smokey, chewy, and uh, you ever had pork?" Mr. Bob nods his head with a smile now. Person 2, "But wait, it tastes nothing like pork. You're giving him the wrong impression." Person 1, "Oh geez." Then out of nowhere a Person 3 (who's been listening in on the conversation for awhile now, has cooked Mr. Bob a nice steak) and enters with a triangular cut of beef on a fork and stands before Mr. Bob. "Mr. Bob, this is a steak. Here smell it." So Mr. Bob looks at it then smells it. "Now eat it." So Mr. Bob eats it. "So now do you understand what a steak is?" Mr. Bob nods as he continues to chews. "Good." Then as Person 1,2, and 3 were leaving, Mr. Bob asks loudly, "How did you know my name was Mr. Bob?!" All three strangers slap their foreheads exclaiming out, "D'oh!" You'll notice that Mr. Bob was trying to honestly understand what the strangers was asking here, but poor Mr. Bob wasn't really soaking the information for the lack of material content. Then when the third person came in, they had all of Mr. Bob's answers in one fell swoop. Metaphorically speaking if you are confused, the steak represented the books and materials and Person 3 was a person that taught and practiced the material with me, I mean Mr. Bob. ;) And in a way Crescent, there is a critique to critique. :) As I always say, Enjoy or Dread.

One more thing to add, I realize I did ask for advice in the title but I was emphasizing on my needs spoken about in the body of my first post. Thanks

My comment concerning Constructive Criticism was meant as an inquiry to know more about Hammer2002's "Critique Style." I do believe it is most important to know as much as possible about a situation before making any kind of recommendations or judgements. Frankly I was surprised by the negative reaction. I would rather see some more sharing of information so that communications might continue.

Hammer2002 did give a critique to Majikku's Angel story, so we now have a sample of his critiquing style. crisjon1950 - I think that your first statement to Hammer2002 came off a bit rough: Constructive Criticism is a key concept here. It's hard to tell if the Hammer believes in Constructive Criticism. To me, that statement could be interpreted as: "Does Hammer2002 actually want to be constructive in his criticism?" From your most recent post, I don't think that's what you meant. This misinterpretation actually ties in to Hammer2002's dilemna, which is making sure that what is said/written is interpreted as intended. Cheers!

If anyone has trouble with my question, they need to re-reread it. It's very simple.